We're gonna call the meeting to order.

And uh you didn't miss it.

Thank you for making sure the uh HVAC is working properly here this morning because outside is kind of hot.

Inside will be uh hot on the topics that we're gonna cover.

So with that, take the roll.

Okay.

This is the role for the Wednesday, July 1st, 2026 comprehensive plan advisory committee meeting.

We're in July.

Can't believe that already, halfway through the year.

So we're gonna roll.

Let's go.

Mayor Darcy here.

Councilman Cardinus.

Yeah, Ms.

Bottomley said she'd be absent.

Mr.

Doris, Ms.

Gruenberg here.

Ms.

Howard here.

Mr.

Martin is said he'd be absent.

Mr.

O'Hara?

Here.

Mr.

Parker.

Mr.

Pryor.

Here.

Mr.

Randich.

Mr.

Rico.

Here.

Dr.

Rouse said she might be absent.

Uh Ms.

Walker.

Mr.

Stunich.

Here.

Chairman Wolf.

Here.

Okay.

First action on the agenda is the approval of the minutes.

Have a motion to approve.

So moved.

Motion made, second.

Okay.

Any discussion, comments?

Hearing none, all in favor.

Aye.

Opposed, same sign.

Motion carries.

There were no nays.

So all that are present in the appropriate.

Great.

Next is citizens to be heard on agenda items.

Not see any citizens present.

So we can move on to old business, which we don't have any agenda items.

Which brings us to new business.

This is a discussion of Joe Minicosy's presentation to the city of Juliet, uh, which was the understand the growth of Juliet presentation.

We had two presentations, actually three, delivered to the city on June 17th, so just a couple weeks ago.

Um so what we wanted to do today was have a conversation about um key findings that the committee felt were imparted to them and um discussion of the recommendations that were outlined and then discuss next steps.

So um I can I can go up to the podium and plug in, and if we we could go to parts of the presentation too if people would find that helpful.

I'm not able to do it from here, but we can do that.

So at any point I can go up there and plug into the system.

So the thought was to highlight pair down from 225 slides or whatever.

Yes, some key and salient points that we need to look at.

Yeah, I can pull it up.

So I think it'd be helpful to do that.

Yeah, yeah.

While Jane's doing that, maybe I'll make a comment.

I apologize again for not being at the last meeting, but I did watch the instant replay, and uh I would say compliments to all of you for a great discussion on the housing issue, because it's very critical to the future of the city that we get that subject right, and I thought it was it was really good to hear all the different perspectives and have our consultant help us kind of pull those things together, and we'll look forward to getting that recap uh from them as soon as they have that because it was quite extensive in terms of information and exchange, and I thought it would take them some time to uh do that.

So hopefully at the next meeting uh have that recap and it will be good.

And always on cue.

Uh anyway, I just I just thought it was important to mention that because I did watch it in its entirety, and I thought the discussion was really good.

So compliments to everyone in terms of the input you've provided and the exchange that occurred on that topic because it's so important to what we're about in terms of this whole planet.

You know, we're kind of on new business, and I know the feds are working on a housing bill.

I don't know if it's passed on, but if that thing comes to fruition, we need to be so articulate on that.

We can grab every freaking dollar out of there because they're looking at an overall culture change of housing that needs big investment.

You know, we're spending 55 billion on wars in other countries.

What about us?

And I think it's about time we find our place in some of this federal money to help bring back 154-year-old community.

So something to really keep our eye on and know with articulation how we can tap into that well when it finally comes through because it's gonna be a huge help.

And it's in all levels of housing.

So hopefully, what do you think, Doug?

Will it get done?

Um I think eventually it had a lot of support eventually it gets done.

Well, it passed both chambers, and we're just waiting on a signature for the White House if certain conditions are met, and hopefully, Congress will overrule any resistance, and we can get to work.

The art of the deal takes place once again at level.

Pardon me.

Yes, but I do believe it does have to have congressional passage in order to overcome that delay, does it not?

We'll have to ask the Supreme Court.

I mean, never mind.

I'm sorry.

That was good.

Back to the meeting.

But we can I mean I know the House leads sponsored on that legislation, and I can call them and see what we can get by way of information in that regard.

So it's good to know people.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, Dustin and I are gonna go back and forth with this.

So here's the I have the presentation pulled up.

Really quick show of hands.

How many people have seen this already?

Because that will inform how the people go.

Okay.

So I saw most of the uh so for the sake of this conversation.

I'm gonna run and look at our land use because this is the comprehensive land advisory committee.

And the purpose of this conversation is kind of like just reacquaint ourselves with this.

Pretty recent.

Not gonna go into it, not gonna hear me talk for 20, 30 minutes.

You've all been very patient.

But we'll see though that land use portfolio, and one of the things that we saw in that presentation was the what next.

One of those recommendations was to uh consider diversifying our land use portfolio.

Just gonna remind ourselves what that current portfolio mix is and why that may be worth considering, and then really turn it over to this group for a conversation about what would make sense.

Uh is that an idea that we kind of coalesce around?

Is it not?

That's fine.

You're an advisory to me.

That's why we're gonna have the conversation.

Sound good?

Any objections?

So I'm going to give all the biographical stuff that Joe did such a good job because he's Joe and I'm not.

Just remind ourselves that what we're talking about is land value per acre.

This is how productive a parcel is from a tax perspective from a revenue perspective for the city.

And you're gonna see some uh land values that are very intense, but they're also very large.

So we're going to look at efficiency of revenue productivity or land value, right?

So just surround us in what we're doing.

Again, we're only talking about property taxes, sales tax.

We're gonna talk about Juliet.

Julia happens in uh Will and Kendall counties.

So, like I said, we see some intense.

This is just like a weather map where it's purple and red, it's very intense value, right?

Uh when we look at land value value per acre, it's a little less intense, and that's okay.

This is that map only with the uh revenues and uh this is this map with just Julia.

This is where it don't.

Yeah, this is the same map without all the other kind of votes, right?

We're gonna skip that.

What's important to know about uh our land use portfolio is not all of it is revenue driven.

And that's okay.

And well I can't care about 80% of the land is taxable, 20% exempt.

That's not a judgment on the exempt.

Great stuff happens on exempt properties, schools, hospitals, cemeteries, parks.

Stuff we need, the stuff that helps make it familiar.

And in Joliet, very similar 8020.

What you'll notice is a little shade of yellow here that's not over here.

I regret the Packers colors, not my choice either as a lion's fan.

Uh but that 8% is intermodal.

Uh it's neither fish nor foul.

It's not exempt, it's not taxable.

Uh those companies pay some calculation to the state, the state remiss some portion of that calculation to the state.

Uh and in our downtown, remember that very tall uh purple spike?

Pretty impressive when you consider only half of downtown is taxable.

So for us.

I'm gonna skip through all of this.

This is very detailed.

I love it.

I would love to talk to you about it.

Not what we're doing here today.

If you want to see it again, it's online.

You want me to talk to you about it?

Nothing would make me happier.

You send me an email, give me a call.

What we're going to talk about is zoning.

Because this is a comprehensive plan advisory committee.

So remember that 78 uh percent taxable.

Of that, 46% of our fair city is uh single family residential, about 30% is industrial, 10% is commercial, 7% is intermodal, 5% is multifamily, and 2% is missing model.

That's us.

Here we go.

And on the right is how much value from a property tax and sales tax perspective, that proportion produces.

So single family takes up 46% of the space, uh, produces 61% of the value.

Commercial punches pretty much at its weight class.

You need it, it's great.

Uh 10% and 10%.

Multifamily, a little bit more productive.

Uh 5% of the space, 7% of the value.

Uh innermore, we're gonna gloss over that.

Uh too much we can do about that.

Missing middle, uh punching way above its weight class, uh, 2% of the land area, 5% of the value.

And I would like to draw our eye to the large black uh box in the top right-hand corner.

30% of land value, it produces 16% of the revenue uh the property and sales tax respective.

So when we think about our choices that we can make uh here with the comprehensive brand, and we have the opportunity to do uh with a future land use map or future regulations.

That's kind of what I'd like us to think about is these proportions what we think they ought to be based on their productivity, and are they what they ought to be based on uh a subjective perspective?

Like what do we like and what do we need?

And our opportunity is to balance what we like and what we need.

So uh that was a whole lot.

Very, very fast.

Mr.

Randich.

What can you define for me what the missing middle means?

Absolutely.

I have uh a great picture.

So missing middle is uh there's a lot of different words for it, right?

In between that, where I live, where probably most people live right now, and a giant uh an apartment complex, right?

So I don't live in a fourplex now.

I did in the past, right?

Just like a lot of people might have at some point in their life, or I would love to get to the point where I have a townhouse and not a yard and a pool.

A lousy above ground pool for those more work.

Uh but yeah, uh missing middle, and Joey has a ton of it because it was developed pre automobile, right?

Like uh that's just how development occurred forever until the advent of you know the post-war America and the room of the automobile, right?

Even in like 20s and 30s with the interurbans, right?

So Juliet's blessed with a lot of beautiful housing stock in a lot of beautiful neighborhoods.

And it's like that because there's a variety of housing types.

My opinion.

So any other questions really quick?

Since you've all seen this pretty much, I don't want to gloss over it, but I also don't want to dwell on things we've already heard.

Do we feel like we're in a space where we might be willing to have a conversation about that's portfolio?

Just kind of like discussion.

Can you put that grid back up on like industrial was 11,000 acres, but 30%, but 16%?

Absolutely.

So what will our target be?

Because we know we've got some revenue issues coming at this city over the next decade.

AKA health insurance.

I'm not pulling punches anymore on some of the things that were done in past administrations.

We have to find a way to fill a huge hole that the city did back in 2016, and it wakes me up every morning.

So is the missing middle what's going to try and help fill that tank of uh expense?

Because that is an expense, and there's no revenue coming in against it.

So when we look at this, we've got to find the best place to create new revenue to fill that hole that's irreversible.

We're asking the union leaders that it's time to sit down and talk about it, because what was enacted, I'm not going to be quiet about anymore.

2016, we put together an insurance plan that a hundred bucks a month for the rest of your life.

Well, this year we're 37 million short.

When that thing is over in 2030, we're going to be 54 million short, but we can't stop it.

Because the next decade's going to be a half a billion dollars to ensure around 1600 people.

Ridiculous.

And I'm going to be much more articulate about it now because it's been under the radar.

We finally got the last union contract done with 440 signed.

Now it's time to talk about how do we fix a really bad decision.

And one of the ways to do is try and mitigate some of it with the best target we can shoot at to bring in revenue for this city.

So I'm going to be real frank, don't shoot the messenger, but that really is a concern that we should all be aware of.

I'm I'm not going to keep it under the rug anymore because this residents of this community need to know what happened and what's happening now that can't bring the horse back in the barn.

We've got to find a way to fix it.

We've got four more years.

I've had people ask me, what are you going to do when 2030 rolls around?

Are we going to have a 10,000 hour deductible?

I said, I don't know.

We got four years to try and turn this thing around.

And we can't stop the retirees.

They get it for the rest of their lives.

Plan B Medicare City covers it.

I mean, it's like hate to be frank.

I'll be frank for a few minutes and then Terry after that.

But we we need to find ways to fill this particular case, the economic development in the surrounding areas is not being matched by the community development.

So building housing of all kinds at every price point is a key to solving that issue and missing middle housing.

I know the bill plan was not popular, and I know why.

But what was outstanding about it, and that no one disagreed with is that we are in the midst of a nationwide, but of course we're focusing on Illinois and Juliet housing crisis, and that that can be addressed through gentle increases in density that you will find only with missing metal housing.

I think that was my thought too.

It's like that little square at the bottom of that group of numbers is probably where the revenue horse is running.

And there is room for that for verticality for infill development, and to improve already existing housing stock that could be brought back to productive use.

So I think that's a great place to ask a question.

Where does it make sense to do that, right?

Because one of the things that I heard people when they talked about the building plan was it was too too prescriptive, is just like the the tide just goes up, it's not strategic.

I think what we have the opportunity to do here is find ways where it's strategic and it could be embraced and successful, and everybody in this room could be enthusiastic about that.

Uh because I think there are logical places where it does make a ton of sense to consider that, right?

Like around the fiscal perspective and from a community uh just health perspective.

Does anybody have like as you drive around where you think where would that make sense?

The east and south side of Joliet.

Yep.

Downtown.

Gateway, south side, east side.

Yep.

Dustin, you're you're talking about infill development right now.

Infill redevelopment, yeah.

I would say the riverfront, both sides.

I think that's fair.

Anywhere where you have the older housing stack around the downtown, and you've done the ETOD plan.

That is and what you're doing with Riverwalk, the HUD choice neighborhoods initiative is ripe for the plucking.

Mr.

Randich, I'm a big believer that the city should try, and I know it's owned by the school districts, but the Bronco Road property owned by the high school and the Troy property on uh on Essington and Glenwood, to me seem like those should be some sort of residential as a as opposed to school.

And you know, I know the schools own them.

We should be able to figure out how we could collaborate with them that sort of price some of that property away and and maybe redevelop it.

I think those are great info sites.

I have knocked on those doors, Steve, but they're not answered.

Well, and to Steve's point around the schools where Dr.

Rouse has mentioned that there has been a lot of loss of enrollment because housing is inaccessible and unaffordable, that could help address some of those issues too.

One of the key points that I took away from uh the video, uh, and I actually watched it twice.

Um the presenter said that density generates more revenue.

So if we know that density generates more revenue, that I think is what we need to look at.

How do we create more denser neighborhoods?

And the other thing is infrastructure is a liability.

The more we annex out, the more we are putting stress onto an already over stress system financially.

So you're saying suburban sprawl is not sustainable?

I didn't say that.

When we looked at all the pump stations we've inherited through all these developments, and all of a sudden now you know we gotta keep these motors running, and that's our maintenance costs.

So developers come in, make a bunch of money, and okay, here you go, keep this machine runner for the next 50 years.

Good luck.

Um I got the same point out of it.

We've got so much infrastructure on tapped in in areas that we could continue to develop without going outside yet.

You know, I think the uh the Western sprawl was great when it was great, but I think we still have a lot of infill here that that we need to and and you know, we're looking at ETOD, we're we got some investment to change some of the zoning programs, right?

That that's been hampering us as well.

Yeah.

Yeah, so just in case not everybody knows what uh Mayor Darcy's referring to is uh Jane and her team uh were able to secure funding through the RTA to implement that ETOD.

That ETOD kind of plan was just that as a plan, it's a framework.

We like this, everybody participated, we all said yes, and now we're actually going to operationalize that.

How do you actually achieve a lot of those goals?

A lot of it's regulatory.

We can control what we can control, and that is what uh we're working through right now.

So, yeah, you're absolutely right.

There were regulatory barriers, and those are being addressed.

So that's probably the first you've all heard of that, but you know, these are some of the inside things that you all need to know that we understand that if we only build on this side, that's never gonna work, but we're gonna change some of those zoning codes so we can stretch get a little more of that purple downtown or wherever, not just downtown.

Another question that I asked uh during the presentation was the sprawl is there, the infrastructure is there.

So, how do we mitigate some of or how do we uh help create denser development in those locations where there's urban sprawl and we know that there's urban sprawl, and there are creative ways for us to still be able to create create denser uh development even in those locations that the land is large, the houses are large, but still help kind of bring in more revenue for those uh existing developments.

So I think that's an interesting question, and one of the things that you might remember as a committee we brought to you were those study areas.

Correct.

What was that?

Three months ago, Jane?

Yeah.

One of those were was on the west side.

Where it was this is what we heard through feedback from the public and people coming uh to uh the public engagement was we the people who live in that place don't necessarily like that it's just houses, right?

So I guess I would be curious to hear all the voices in this room kind of weigh in on well, if that's what we heard, let's just assume that's true.

And let's also assume that this data is accurate.

As uh a leadership group as an advisory committee.

What do you think is tolerable and what do you think is actionable with that opportunity?

Because people said this is an opportunity for us that we want to look at.

Here's some information that kind of validates potential solutions, right?

So what does that look like?

Does anybody have like a reaction or an idea?

Maperville just uh developed, and it's right, uh I think Aurora Neighborhood, like last six months ago, I was driving down that area, and I think it's I can't remember uh what it's called.

It's called Block 59.

Block 59.

So literally six months ago, I don't remember Black 59 being there.

Maybe it was, but they did a great job of looking at the existing mall, developing around that, and then across the street, it's nothing but commercial, it's restaurants.

So that community that they've developed, I mean, I'm sure it was in the works, I don't know how long it was in the works, but they did a great job of looking at existing infrastructure that was not being fully utilized, and not only did they bring in housing, but they also brought in a ton of opportunities for commercial.

Where that place, I've been there twice in the past month, and every time that I've gone, it's been jumping.

It's all restaurants on one side of the Block 59.

Black 59, but on the other side of the street in the mall.

Yeah, and the apartments in the house.

Yeah, yeah.

I can tell you, we had the chance to do the same thing with our series properties they did up there in the previous administration blew them out.

A thousand units on 17 acres.

And they did that on 14 acres up there.

I know the guy that owned the property.

Well, could it could that project idea be revived?

Well, at that point, the money was in the threes, the cost of building was probably 30% less.

And I've talked to them in a dozen pencil right now, unless there's subsidies.

So if this federal thing gets put together, I think we we might be able to utilize if if it ever happens, there's probably criteria, but things like that could then happen because just like anything else, when costs get too high, then you'd have to raise the rent, so it would almost be too much.

But but you know, those are things that I wish we would have done then.

Um that was a complete miss.

And I hate to keep talking, but keep talking.

One other thing is from what we've seen, at no point should we ever change residential zoning to industrial zone.

Never.

It doesn't pencil.

So let's pick up on the zoning thing because we have whole range of zoning and some of the zoning has been there forever.

Sure.

And we need you're in the process of reviewing all of those now because that zoning is critical to be used by a developer of any size, whether it's on small scale or larger scale.

When do we think the zoning thing will be in a position to use that to leverage it as a development tool, if you will?

So I think it depends on where you are thinking about doing that, right?

So if you are thinking about doing that in what we've uh defined as a community, the downtown, that ETOD area, we're in process of changing those zoning regulations right now, right?

Uh when that's if that's chosen to be adopted by uh council, that becomes effective immediately, right?

Uh when we're talking about you know some of these other character areas, like Ridge Road Corridor or you know Cass Street uh on the east side, that's gonna come after the comprehensive plan, and then there's gonna be another process that's just as participatory and considered about just like we're doing the zoning code for the ETOD, like the overlay district, we're gonna have to do the same thing for the entire community to operationalize the vision that this community has adopted, right?

Because a comprehensive plan is a vision, it's a direction, and then we have to do it.

The work of doing will take some time as well.

So in the interim, like what happens in that interacting, right?

Like we've got this great idea, we've got a urgency, here's an opportunity, but you can't do it by right.

Well, the good news is stuff's been happening this whole time in Joliet since we our last comprehensive plan in the 60s, right?

It didn't stop, certainly, right?

We've grown uh 100%.

Uh so we can continue to do things, just maybe developments, there's variations of use, there's special exceptions.

There is a way to get things done that we can accomplish creative ideas, right?

So to the mayor's point that uh Louis Juliet law redevelopment didn't happen, we would have found a way to make it happen from a regulatory perspective.

Absolutely.

Like things can happen.

Things are happening all the time.

It's what we choose to uh attend to and recruit and facilitate, I think, is the that that interim period's opportunity, right?

And that is a challenge for a person who wants to spend a few million dollars, right?

They want to know they can do it just by right.

There's a lot of risk of time and approvals.

So that's also an opportunity for a council to come together and say, uh, I don't want to get over my schemes and tell council what to do.

It's really a city manager and a council decision.

Well, there's things there's ways you can signal to the market that this is our intention, this is what we want to do, this is what we do, right?

Uh so I would say we don't have to we don't have to succumb to per analysis paralysis.

We don't have to say, I'm gonna make uh perfectly an immediate good.

We can we can do stuff in between a zoning code revision and now we've been doing stuff for six years, and we can just do better stuff.

So if there were a developer that had let's say 40 acres somewhere in those zones, those four target areas that we've talked about.

Um they could meet with you and potentially work something up.

Absolutely.

Okay, for sure.

I after Ms.

Walker, Mr.

Carnius has been exceedingly patient.

Go ahead.

I just had a question about the zoning for the ETOD.

So once the zoning for the ETLD is approved, is there a way for us to kind of look at that, see that it might be something that can transfer over to the overall zoning plan.

Is that something that generally happens or no?

We're getting kind of technical, Jane.

I would say just as a as a as a layperson, uh, yeah, there's gonna be principles that are you know copy and pastable, but I would also caution that you just control A, control C, control V the whole thing, because that ETOD zoning overlay district will be the result of steering committee of a plan that was adopted by a wide variety of stakeholders and is contextually appropriate, right?

We don't want, well, what I would suggest we consider not doing is uh doing exactly what the Build Act did say you shall do this whether you like it or not, right?

I I think we want to find a coalition of success here, but that's just me personally.

Jane, did you want to say anything additional?

Okay.

Counselor Cardanus.

All right.

Um I think the the biggest challenge for us is to put uh you know in perspective for people what our goals are, right?

When we look at our current budget as a city of Jolie, how much of it comes from property taxes, how much comes from like sales tax revenue and whatnot.

Um so the answer, you know, when we talk about you know rezoning and and and uh more density, I feel like sometimes we gotta be careful that we're not just saying we just need apartments everywhere because that's what's gonna solve the problem.

That's not what we're saying.

It's gotta be a mixed use of commercial and residential, and therefore uh we look at our current budget today when you look at those spikes, that's a mixed use of residential and commercial, right?

And we're doing, you know, I I believe if I'm not mistaken, our current budget, the majority of it comes from our mixed use and residential in our downtown or urban areas.

But that's only, I think in that one screen you showed it was like what 12, 15% of our total development, right?

So if we did more of that, which would go into like the missing middle, that makes use development.

So it doesn't mean we just need thousands of apartments all over the place.

We need something like that block 59 where we can do some development where it's maybe it's commercial on the bottom, residential on top.

We can do like what they called, I think he mentioned like uh one way of doing it, like we created like almost like we have our downtown area.

We're gonna say that uh rock run right now is kind of like that uh it's a little main street, right?

Because it's got 500 apartments, it's got commercial.

Uh so where else throughout the city of Joliet, can we potentially do like another, you know, main street?

So maybe, like you said, the mall is a prime example of a place where you add apartments, there's already commercial, that could be a huge spike.

Our downtown, obviously, it's a you know, it's a no-brainer, it's already there.

How do we reinvest back into that part?

So I think that conversation of the idea is to find where we can do more mixed use because it's not just our budget in Joliet is not totaled by property taxes, it's sales taxes, people visiting our communities, people coming.

So you hear a lot of negativity about why are we investing so much in downtown, why are we spending on the reality, why are we spending on this?

We're not spending, we're investing in areas that generate the majority of our budget for the city to operate.

So when we talk about these gaps and things that we have currently, the best way they're gonna fill those is to make Joliet attractable enough to create more development, to create more people to visit, because it's not just on the backs of the property tax owners, and then we don't have to sit there and raise property taxes if we can encourage more people to visit us and that's just a question on the Cullen and property.

I know the 500 apartment unit.

Is there a more housing types uh planned for that area?

Do you know?

Uh more housing types planned for that uh particular development.

Could they change?

We gotta say, would you consider this?

Uh who knows?

I think anything's possible if it pencils and it makes people money, right?

Like that's also make sure that people were gonna do this get a fair shake as well.

But as it is right now, that document doesn't contemplate anything other than what's there.

Caesar, to your point, that whole sector called Ridge Road between Peyton Farm and Black is a zone that we heard uh during the public hearings and meetings that we had.

The people wanted retail there and other things.

So the mixed use is critically important because accessibility to whatever it is that's important to you is the number one thing that's important to you.

Can I get there when I need to get there?

And I don't want to drive two miles, I want to drive more.

I mean, it might sound crazy, but that accessibility to services to take care of your household needs, if you will, whether that's an apartment town home condo or single family home, you still want access to supermarkets, drugstores, uh other types of grocery stores, etc.

that generate that additional revenue.

So I think that that is something that we've been talking about and need to build.

Because I think uh to that point, like if you think about that ridge road, you got that big piece of land that you know is is our automatic answer, we need a Walmart to target uh uh Home Depot and all these big box, which I don't think it is, right?

Can that turn into more of like you said that block 59 or the you know seven bridges over off of in uh Woodridge, where it's you know, there's apartments, so it becomes more of its own main street per se, right on there, but people have to be open to that mixed use development of commercial and residential mixed in there in an area that's just primarily single family, right?

But if you propose that, will people oppose it because they say we don't want apartments over here or townhomes, but yet the answer to there is not gonna be a big Walmart because when we look at our per acre capital, that's not gonna give you the revenue you need.

We need the density of mixed use commercial, and that might be a prime spot for that, which is gonna be something different, but I think people would learn to appreciate it when you can go.

Maybe there's an eye doctor there, a dentist, you know, and whatnot, all within that small space, right?

Was it wasn't there some pushback on building some apartments or more.

It's always a printback.

Over in that area, right?

It doesn't matter what community.

I think it's important to paint it more than just we're gonna put apartments on Ridge Road.

Right.

It needs to be put like we're gonna build a main street on real bridge road, which is gonna consist of this, which can potentially generate this.

And you're still gonna get the pushback any time conversations around density in any community, there is always pushback, and that is why a the education and the advocacy and talking as you've been reaching out to the public and getting their input to continue planting the seeds that this kind of development is what is necessary to sustain this city to keep it moving into the future, and then for our elected officials to have the intestinal fortitude to tell their residents that this is what needs to happen in order to grow, and I'm I'm sure that that's difficult, but that's what needs to happen because just because you think you don't want it doesn't mean that it's not the right thing to do.

But if you build uh on ridge road, if you do mixed use, if you do condoms, and you do apartments, you automatically are going to attract those individuals who are coming out of college who are looking for to own something.

So I do think that mixed use, but not just look like we say it, not just looking at apartments, but looking at condominiums.

Condominiums are smaller apartments, but people own them, and there are some individuals who just want to own a smaller piece of property when they get out of college.

Once again, the argument is always all typologies, every price point, so that we can fit the needs of every kind of person.

Absolutely.

And that's where again educating the public on you think you don't want this, you think you hate it, but all the things that you think are gonna happen aren't gonna happen.

It's going to be okay.

This is what we need to do.

So, how do we get a zoning approved and then once the zoning is approved, how do we get our city council to then align with what the needs are for the future?

Get somebody with support to test an affordable.

We do have a new perspective.

I ran for mayor because I really got tired of the old perspective.

I was upset when they didn't do that uh unit at the Sears property, and I didn't think I was gonna win the election, but I brought some ideas.

I thought, well, if I don't win, at least here's something that I can hang my hat on.

But we need change in this community.

We we need to we need to follow the future and we need to go from east to west.

Yeah.

We need to look at Brig Street, that area.

I mean, we you know, we have sections of the city that we have to look at individually.

We've got a lot of blank canvas out off Bridge Street.

Yeah, you know, and we need volume of people to get stores and things we need there too.

So 15 miles long, I mean east to west, we've got we've got what would consummate typically four communities in the length of one.

But we have to look at it constructively.

I I brought some in here 15 years ago to build apartments out near Wedgewood Golf Course.

Totally blew them out of the water.

I said, just give us off no.

They wrote 'em out of here like they were dirt.

And that's when I realized we really didn't have a lot of forward thinking.

Yeah.

And I don't mean to be critical, but I just have to point out what frustrated me to the level where I want to try and get into a public service position.

And that same thing happened at Theodore in 59.

Oh, yeah.

Just in the last 18 months.

And I can tell you, because I live near there, people were talking about you know, it's gonna devalue our property.

It's gonna put people that are gonna be looking in your bedroom windows from these apartment buildings.

It's like don't flatter yourself.

Um, the idea of the value of my property, how will it be impacted by the development that we're talking about?

I think we're talking about a plan that tries to lift all ships.

I'm I'm not really sure that we're seeing plummeting property values anywhere in this area.

But taxes don't see it.

No matter what.

I understand that, but that's the one of the big arguments was on that property.

And that same developer built one on Weber Road behind the Mercedes Benz dealership.

And they are really nuts.

And missed opportunity.

You know, you know, I think the mayor talked about this, and and I've read about this over the years, going back 30 years.

Right now, we have all the new development over the past what, 30 years has gone far west.

All the single family housing, and with that, all the services that were required associated with that, whether it's roads, whether it's water service, whether it's firemen, police, new substations, that gets expensive.

If we push for it small infill development, I don't think you're gonna get the the pushback from the population.

But I do think with the large multifamily complexes, because there has been a bad perception of that, we're gonna get that pushback.

That's why we're focusing on the missing metal again.

Yeah, that's further further.

I would say some of the people I know that that became teachers down here uh that moved in from the suburbs that were, I would say, I won't say an upper middle class, but they were definitely higher than average middle class.

There were incentivize, they were incentivized by the city 30 years ago.

So wouldn't it be cheaper to incentivize people within a certain area of Jolia, whether it's the area up to I-55 and all the way to Brig Street to build those two unit or three-unit buildings, and or to live there, and you bring that level of wages and income and wealth to the community, and it really doesn't cost the city, it's a lot cheaper to inset in my mind it would be cheaper to incentivize that than to incentivize the new.

I couldn't agree more, but I have a question for Jane.

When we did that public meeting, and we had the legacy neighborhoods group, how did they respond to suggestions of infill development?

That particular group at that particular night at that particular moment, uh so not wildly supportive, but so I do think we will still have objections, it still will be a hurdle to clear.

I agree with you a thousand percent, but the only pushback I have on what you said is that people will still resist.

I was in that legacy movement, and I understand how a kappa went from I passed papers up and down Buell Avenue where every single family had been chopped up into a three unit on the 500 block, and now it's back to single family.

The values drive up Buell Avenue from the 500 block up, it's beautiful.

It didn't look like that 40 years ago, it is really nice, and those people have invested a fortune in their neighborhood.

Now, on the periphery of that, you look along Center Street, you look along Hickory Street.

I think I think there's a lot of support for a rebuilding of those vacant lots, not into a 12 unit, but maybe into a but that would be part of what the choice neighborhoods that's I think what they're trying to do is bring in mixed typologies at different price points from you know affordable and subsidized housing to market rate, and I think that's like the goal of that project is to break down like warehousing people and bring in more integrated communities, which is I think what you're suggesting is fair suggestion, uh, but for very specific locations of specifically the the housing side of hair.

But that's the mentality that they're applying to this.

Fair that is that is accurate.

I just wanted to make sure that as people hear that uh they don't confuse the two.

It's gonna bleed out that that processes.

Exactly right.

Didsification, but contextually appropriate.

Fair point.

Yeah.

I do want to jump in real quick.

Stamon raises an interesting point that I've been kind of circling, and that is all of this, everything we do, every idealized zoning map is subject to demand, right?

And we just don't know what that demand profile is ultimately gonna look like in a year from now, two years from now.

None of this is instant, right?

I think you will clean up some zoning, get some interest, identify some parcels.

You can do some things short term, but medium term, long term, like the idea of an incentive.

I will just say this.

Like I think flexibility matters, and you touched on this a little bit.

Like we've been doing stuff, right?

Um, and so it's like it's it's not going to be perfect, it needs to be sort of based in demand.

But it I think it's important to understand the market is ultimately going to inform what can and can't work in these spaces.

And I just hope we have a mechanism for revisiting or at minimum, like in openness going forward.

And I know the tools exist, but you know, the mayor's talking about we've got to do mindset, we're gonna do this.

That's valuable.

It's really good.

I think it really helps.

Um but it is it won't be immediate, and we won't know exactly how they're gonna respond until we get the chance to do that.

So we have uh right now in progress a housing market study that talks about uh this kind of demand, what's the absorption rate?

And the preliminary results then show that if you build it, there's a demand for it, right?

Like you can get very granular in Wilkes.

County, the project area for choice and Juliet generally uh at what price point at what demand demand at all price points is very high.

So you're right, that could change, and if it does, when it does, you know, we we have to adapt, right?

We have to have a little bit of flexibility.

But I think at this moment I think if we're swinging for the fences, yeah, better than average chance of making content.

Yeah, I think so.

So, Doug, what is the market saying we need right now?

So we just finished our countywide housing study, and they forecast the need for 32,000 units over the next 10 years.

Um, a significant portion of which is current um demand that's not being met.

Um it is broad-based.

I mean, yes, multifamily, you know, Juliet's not unique in having held off on building that for decades, so that's wanna say 80% of like the current backlog, it's a big number.

Um we need a lot of units of all types across the county.

It didn't dive specifically into Juliet, so I can't say which portion of that is.

But there was a high demand for one bedroom apartments, which there was, and I it's look, it's it's a function of demand shifts overall, right?

The the market in general kind of moved that direction over the last couple decades.

Um for I won't waste everybody's time speculating as to why, but if it did, um and so like the the real short-term demand is there.

That said, um it's impermanent, right?

And it's I I do worry about cyclical development, and I I worry to the mayor's point uh the Sears project, that was a very busy cycle for those kinds of things, and we missed that cycle.

The investment parameters have changed, right?

Um, but it doesn't mean that new opportunities won't emerge in that space.

It's just you need to be better prepared to capture them within home.

Doug, was that report of that demand that's necessary?

Was it geographically located or just in general?

So they divided the county into a half a dozen different sections.

Um trying to capture some of the more local, but as a general rule, I've spent most of my time talking about it countywide, right?

But Will County is an interesting place.

We we have a lot of different markets within Will County, of course.

You know, I just want to comment.

I think was that the breakfast uh the I open a breakfast thing.

I talked about it at the IOPR.

And I thought it was a really nice study, and what I took out of that is on this, and I don't know if the if we can share that with the board here.

What can an early professional afford in Will County?

And if you look at it, and they refer it to as a a brand new registered nurse looking for a zero to one bedroom, like you were saying, the one bedroom units with amenities close to Chicago, annual income 72,000, target rental 1600 to 1800.

But on the map of Will County, by and far the biggest by far the biggest cluster of affordability for that nurse is in Joliet.

It is and and I just wanted to everybody talks about Joliet is not affordable, but for the the low I won't say high-paying professional position, people are moving here because it is so affordable.

If there's something available though, and the lack of inventory continues to be the biggest issue with the housing crisis is the lack of inventory.

That's what drives up the prices, right?

Or a factor of driving up the prices.

My point is Joliet is by far the most affordable.

Yeah, multifamily housing here than most other places.

You have more of the density here.

But I mean, I think what's that say 238 listings the whole year countywide that fit into that parameter.

And I want to say six of them were built since 2015, something like that.

I mean Doug, how many 18 to 35-year-olds is Will County bleeding every year?

Because there is the number was 893.

It's it's somewhere between it's it's a 20 to 34-year-olds.

So we're losing that age group because even though Juliet may have more and more affordable access to that type of housing across the board in Will County, we're failing.

So failing in F.

Failing is in we're losing our young professionals.

We're using we're losing the young people because there's nowhere for them to be it's not unusual in suburban environments for that to be the case right young people tend to migrate toward the urban center.

The challenge of the last six years has been rates are up.

Nobody's listing their homes home sales are down people are aging in place the homes aren't turning over so these kids that used to leave for a while come back have fewer opportunities to come back.

There are just fewer homes on market for to do that and um it's it's it's one of the things that's most conserving concerning to me demographically right now it's it's not an easy problem to fix.

Inventory helps at some point it's inventory of everything.

We also need you know semi affordable ranch homes for seniors to move out of their big homes into and open up those opportunities.

It's not a simple fix.

So one of the things that we talked about I think it was at our last meeting is over the past 10 to 20 years we haven't had any senior development in our area that's critical because we have more people who are aging and they don't have a place to go and it wasn't and we weren't just talking about affordable or affordability we were just talking about any type of senior development we haven't had any development in the past 20 years specifically in Joliet and I don't know if if that number is also the same in Wheel County.

And we've seen some other communities but really 20 years 20 years I think we said 10 to 20 I mean I can't think of one that's been developed in the past 20 years.

And so in the missing middle um whatever we're looking at for zoning I don't want us to think that if we include three units in that missing middle that we're including the missing middle the missing middle doesn't include up to three units.

It can be larger units to create that density so I want to make sure that we are understanding that that missing middle it had a variety of different housing types last year.

Thanks you know when I drive down Rayner Avenue I look at something that was well thought out's is one of the ones with the high density big dollar across from the church you got a couple of three or four units together nice little brick units you got scattered in there two units and three units and single family and that's a great mix I understand that what what happened from that that huge growth out west was you know the fire was burning so keep pouring gas on single family there were town homes built in there the missing ingredient was uh rental rental properties I mean that that's really where we we have the biggest holdout there they did they did a good job of mixing some stuff but there's there's so much scroll of single family um we did miss well so now we've got to rethink that and everything we do we we don't want to get caught in that whatever's fire is burdened today is the only thing we're gonna do which Doug said it's cyclical building but we know right now that missing middle is very important to us Terry it wasn't missed I was there the city council that time had no flavor for not for they had no flavor for apartments and a lot of it I think because they had the mindset that not in my neighborhood but they didn't miss it they avoided it and we're paying for today right so I think we're at an hour I do want to show you one thing it's kind of you haven't seen this yet absolutely of the rebel housing administration community well parts of the community were good and how did they find good and we're probably from Europe to make money and find not great hazardous even as have it so major money with your hands to that right so we can take this map as a real map this was a policy that was adopted just like we're doing we're talking about creating policy that we're not even acting over our current city here's where all those parcels are right and here's where all the single family houses still exist we put our railroads where we put our highway interchanges where we put our factories where we put everything that's kind of early in the rail line area we can see that and that policy of saying this is good this is what we want this is not worked.

And here's where all the single family houses still exist.

So where do we put our railroads?

Where do we put our highway interchanges?

Where can we put our factories?

Where do we put everything that's kind of early?

In the rail line area.

You can see that.

And that policy of saying this is good, this is what we want, this is not what we want.

No, it worked.

I mean, this is the value per acre right now.

And the year of our alert, 24.

So I just think it's important to remember that what we're doing can have profound effects.

This was a bad policy, and it worked.

Just imagine the persisting and lasting value and effect of good policy, what we're talking about doing here.

It's a tremendous opportunity if we act with a uh purpose of clarity and the convictions to actually follow through on what I'm hearing you want to do.

Because it can work, it does work.

So I think that's a good place for me to stop talking.

Uh Jane, do you have any closing thoughts on this particular portion of the meeting?

No.

Well, no, I guess not.

Um, but before we flow, then we'll run through how we're using this information right now.

I think that's good.

Yeah.

We're doing a team effort.

I don't want to.

So everyone should have received a notice that states that the presentation was available on our city's comprehensive plan website.

So just a reminder, um presentation is you can watch it.

You can watch Joe Menicosi deliver his presentation if you haven't done so.

I encourage you to do that.

Then you can also download the slides here.

Um we did email all 1,000 people that are on the city's comprehensive plan uh listserv.

So that email went out via Francisco and then our comprehensive plan email address, neighborhood leaders of the organizations of um neighborhood councils also received uh notice saying this presentation was up as well as plan commission, zoning board, historic preservation commission, and then the comprehensive plan advisory.

And then I'm also city staff also have been um notified that this presentation was available again, utilizing our city staff as a project champion.

Um so that is here.

We also um relating to what we talked about today, we have put under community input opportunities a revised summary of the community workshop number two that took place in February.

So here again is where we have the information about the um the different four different character areas.

So we've combined PDFs that we previously had here on hand and made it a little bit more easy or easier for people to look at.

So that information is there as well.

Um topic area workshops also have been um just a summary of that have been updated, and then at some point in the near future, we'll move this the urban three understand the growth of July information under reports and findings.

So that's where it will then live once um it is not the hottest and latest item that is on the main page here.

Any questions or suggestions for improvement from an administrator perspective?

So on urban three, I think it's great that they're available.

Is it like 265 pages on that urban three presentation?

Is there a way to distill it down to some of the salient points that we've been trying to focus on, like the presentation that you just did?

So that rather than suggesting somebody go look for it in that 265 pages, here's a 25-page summary of key things that we're looking at.

It isn't all comprehensive because there are other supporting things, but it's good that it's there.

I would raise a question as to how many people will really.

As opposed to click, click, click, click, and try to wrap it fire it.

I think that's a fair suggestion.

I think it's a good suggestion, and I think you know it's our intellectual property now, and we have every right to chop that up as how we see fit, and I'd be happy to take a crack at making that uh a more accessible document for sure.

I'll also add that we have been provided with a draft, they have a report taking the information, just we haven't been able to look at it yet.

It was password protected as of maybe an hour ago.

So I have not Dustin and I have not uh downloaded it and reviewed it, then um there might be some comments back to the consultant.

But yes, the final report will be available for the committee to look at in the public.

And so when you look at the three-dimensional footprint and say, here are areas that we're looking at, here are our four targeted.

If we are successful, is there a way to put some of that three-dimensional perspective on it?

You know, because that will tell people we're moving in the right direction with these things.

I think that we could probably reverse engineer the graphics portion, maybe.

I mean, we have a relationship with them, they might be willing to do that.

Just hey, could you adjust this to show if you're more intense?

Yeah, because if we put the missing middle in some of those four targeted areas, what is the potential impact there if we're a certain degree of that assessment?

That would be a powerful because I think people will see it as a blank, you know, a flat piece of instead of just one purple spire in the middle.

Right.

You know, we're trying to that's a great idea.

Show them that we're trying to diversify lift.

I think Joe would do that if we said, hey, what if we do this, this, and this here?

Can you tell us what the dynamic would look like?

I'm the benefit to him would be that would be something that he could showcase to other audiences, like here's a here are examples of what you can do if you do this.

He might pay us for that idea.

Right.

One of my takeaways from his presentation was all right, Juliet, you're in trouble, but you're in good company communities all over the United States, have tried different things and have discovered over time what's sustainable and what's not, but there is a path to victory here, you know.

It was not doom and gloom.

It was just like, all right, well, now we know better.

Juliet is like any other community.

It's got its really great points, and it's got some challenges.

And the challenges are the area that we're focusing on now to make those great as well.

Any other questions, comments?

Just want to comment on both.

Yeah, believe that maybe there is an opportunity because there has been senior housing built in Juliet.

They're building some right now.

Old on Brig Street, the housing authority has built, I think, two senior houses.

I thought that was veteran house.

No, that's their senior housing.

They are off briggs.

Uh they put in, I think 15 or 20 units, and they're building more off briggs that would be uh uh south of Route 6.

There is new senior housing.

They they built their 65 and they're expanded in that.

Okay.

I stand corrected.

So maybe an opportunity for us to pardon very many units for an aging population, so must have more.

But good to hear.

Other questions, comments.

Hearing none.

I think one thing I want to point out is we look at our trajectory, there's still 41,000 young folks in this community under the age of 19.

That's the most important vision that we have to focus on is helping them stay here.

Along with the seniors, because when we move a senior out, we got a younger person move in.

But I always I was amazed when I saw that when I was uh running for the position.

I'm like, wait a minute, third of our third of our communities under 19 years old.

That's huge.

So we have a really really young population that that's a gold mine for us to maintain.

Just got to make sure we keep them in mind as well.

I mean little guys like me, I'll find a place to flip someday, but she got on your ice flow.

But we do need I look at a little development at Fidey and Essington Road with all those little three plexes.

Really cool.

Great little, you know, 20 acres got 80 people living there.

It's kind of cool.

And I think we need to look at more of those opportunities.

Gentle city.

Sorry about that, Jim.

I didn't mean to know.

I was trying to get my distance between that older thing.

Um not there yet.

Don't let the old man in, Jim.

Yeah, at least clearly.

Um other questions, comments?

Thanks for the input.

It's it's very helpful to have all of your different perspectives, and with that.

So anyone in the public that would like to comment.

Um, can I make one comment or staff reports before you move?

Sure.

So just a reminder, this is where we are.

This is on screen with the comprehensive plan process.

So we are in phase four.

We are two-thirds done.

Um we are wrapping up phase four.

So what that means is that our consultant firm as right now are they are working on the draft comprehensive plan, so taking information from all the workshops that have been completed, um, input on the committee, and both the public.

Um they have looked at the urban three presentation, so they are preparing the draft comprehensive plan.

We the uh city staff does expect a draft to be delivered to us in the next um two weeks, we'll say, and so staff will then do uh internal review, um send any comments back to the consultant firm, and um they will work on those um comments, and we we are hoping to have the draft available for the committee for the August comprehensive plan advisory committee meeting, but it you know that may not happen, and it may push in September.

Um we just want to make sure everything's done right and thoughtfuls.

So uh that's what's coming forward.

Um then with that there will be a final um public workshop, or we can call it open house that will take place either in September or October of this year, so that date will be um to be determined uh based on people's availability, including the consultant staff.

Any questions about what's coming down the pipe?

Okay, so that's that's it for staff reports.

Great, thank you.

Thanks for all the work that you and Dustin and others have done on this because I don't know how you keep it all straight, but we appreciate the effort in that regard because it's it's very helpful to see all the different aspects of what we need to think about as we put this plan together to retain those 41,000 under the age of 19.

19, I said 18.

Um the ones are 70 and over.

Yeah, we want to go straight back.

Um other questions, comments from anybody?

I just wanted to um throw it out there that on July 15th, the chamber is going to have the Secretary of Transportation present at our luncheon.

So if you're not receiving our emails and you'd like to attend, um just reach out secretary of transportation for the US or Illinois, sorry.

Giaji.

Gia Viaji.

She had will she talk about the bridges?

We'll see.

We will be prepared.

She won't get stuck behind a bridge.

They were recently assistant secretaries recently out here, and we took them on a tour of Joliet and all the pain points, etc.

So great.

Yeah.

Good.

We have their attention.

July 13th.

15th.

15th.

You know, I think it's at Clarion.

It is at Claryon.

We got a table already there, but we can get more okay.

Any public comment?

Motion to motion to adjourn.

Motion to adjourn.

Is there a second?

There is a second.

All those in favor signify by aye.

Aye.

Aye.

So we stand adjourned.

Thank you.