Yeah, you're not sure what you got to do.

Um that's all that is.

I think that's like that.

You can get the four trade benefits.

South Carolina structure is not one part.

Yeah, I think it's a bad part of that.

This meeting is being transcribed and summarized.

I got to go there.

Good evening, everyone.

It's now six p.m.

I'd like to call to order the regional Kent County Regional Planning Commission public hearing for April the second.

And as we customarily do, we'll start with the uh Pledge of Allegiance, and I'll ask uh Mr.

Mr.

Gauver if he would say it, please.

Welcome everybody.

I SPM, we have a crowd tonight.

That if you have a cell phone or any other electronic device that you put it on vibrate so it won't interrupt us during our meeting.

We'll now get into roll call and determination of quorum, Sarah.

Mr.

Peterman.

Present.

Mr.

Sarvon.

Present.

Mrs.

Carcher.

Here.

Mr.

Galfrey.

Here.

Mr.

Mills?

Here.

Mr.

Davis.

Here.

Mr.

Jester.

Here.

So you have seven present.

You do have a quorum.

Thank you very much.

Before you, Commissioners, you have the agenda for tonight's meeting.

If there's no other changes or uh anything addition to our subtractions, I'll entertain a motion in a second.

So I get.

I have a motion and a second, Sarah, call the commission.

Mr.

Peterman.

Yes to approve.

Mr.

Servon.

Yes to approve.

Mrs.

Carcher.

Yes to approve.

Mr.

Galvery.

Yes to approve.

Mr.

Mills.

Yes to approve.

Mr.

Davis.

Yes to approve.

Mr.

Jester.

Yes to approve.

So you have seven yes in favor of approving tonight's agenda.

Thank you very much.

And I'll come right back to you, Sarah, now for the introduction and public hearing instructions.

Thank you.

This public hearing is being conducted for the purpose of giving the citizens of the county the opportunity to present testimony on the applications before the Regional Planning Commission.

Everyone will have a chance to speak.

All statements are to be made from a podium at the front of the room.

For the record, please give your name and address.

Copies of any written statements or exhibits used during the hearing should be presented for identification and inclusion in the record.

The record will remain open for two business days following the hearing.

For the applications before the commission, the chairman will introduce the application.

Then the applicant or representative will be given 15 minutes to present the application.

Following that, those in favor of the application will be allotted five minutes each to speak.

Then those opposed to the application will be allotted five minutes each to speak.

When everyone has had an opportunity to give testimony, the hearing on the application will be closed.

No decision will be made by the planning commission tonight.

The commission will hold a public business meeting next Thursday, April 9th, at 6 P.M.

At which time it will make a decision on the applications heard tonight.

All information of record will be considered.

I apologize to talk tonight, but we all know how the assignment is there and everything, how it's been, so I'll do the best I can.

Fire district is Magnolia Station 55.

It's point fifty-three acres on the south side of Doe Hill Court, being lot 44 in country field.

Is there someone here tonight to represent the application?

Please come to the mic.

Give us your name and address, and you can either be sworn or affirmed by our attorney.

I can speak now.

I'm Valerie Singleton, 41 Doe Hill Court.

Ms.

Singleton, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth?

Yes.

Ma'am, you can pull that right up to you.

It moves.

Oh, okay.

Thank you.

Make sure you get close to it because we're some of us are up here are hard hearing.

I can speak now.

Go right ahead with your presentation.

Okay.

Okay.

Um, as you know, I resigned at 41 Doe Hill Court.

I've been there for 20 years.

Um you have to excuse me because this is the first time this I had to go through this.

Well, my plans were to open up a daycare, and I'm here to address some of the four um papers that came back that opposed to the daycare.

Okay, for one, um, it was told that traffic, there will be no traffic because I did not want a commercial daycare.

I only wanted a daycare, a private daycare of six children.

Okay, I'm a grandmother of seven, and three of them that I would be taking care of.

Second of all, the ages are from two to five years old.

I am um a retiree from the postal service.

I just retired, so uh my passion is kids.

I'm also uh a foster mom for 15 years.

So I said to myself, okay, what do you want to do next?

I would love to um open a little private daycare.

No, it will not be food trucks or anything to that nature because it's a home family daycare.

I will not have staff because you don't need any staff for six children.

Um my driveway fits six cars.

Um I am the only one that went to my HOA and asked them about this whole daycare, and they approved me.

Now I know it's concerns of of the neighborhood, and I read some off like um frequent noise, food supplies, equipment waste.

It's no need for six children at the age of five to six years old.

And the reason why I want this daycare is sometime you have parents, they work all the time.

They don't have time nowadays to really uh prepare their kids for school.

And I want to be one of the ones that to help and to prepare to start them for school.

I don't want um kids, teenagers, uh um junior high.

I just want to prepare the little siblings to go into school.

That's all I wanted.

Um my other concern with uh one of the neighbors.

I don't know what this is mean by cows gazing in the backyard.

We're talking about children.

We're not talking about animals.

So I don't even know why this was presented.

Um not only that, I have here where I was approved through the HOA, and I explained the same thing.

And far as um the lot, the kids will be inside.

Most of my neighbors, they're working, and um, I have another neighbor who was a concern about a pool.

I have a fenced in yard, and um she has a fenced in yard, and we're six feet apart, and I would always be out there to make sure the kids are safe.

My hours of the operation that I was running is from seven to five, and most of the time, you know, it's different, it is different times, but I have a cutoff point from seven to nine.

If you're not there by that time, uh you can't come.

So that's the only concern.

Um, and I understand my neighbors that's their concern, because we all been in this development for 20 years.

We also had landscapers been in our development, and nothing was said, and it started off from one to multiples of four.

And no, they're no longer there.

They moved.

Um, nothing was said about that.

We also had an ice cream truck business company that was in the yard, and it wasn't supposed to be there.

Nothing was said about that.

So I can just go on and on, but that's not what I'm here for.

My passion is to try to get approval to take care of the little ones.

That's all I want.

You know, whatever they do, you know, at least I could say I tried, I came and did it the right way.

I did things because a lot of times in there, things are overlooked, and nothing is done and nothing was said.

So far as I know they should have went to them, but when the six-foot fence came there, it was overlooked.

Then it was put in the HOA after the fact.

So I guess that's about it.

I'm trying to cover up and far as noise.

How much can a two to five-year-old make noise in in a backyard?

They only out for playtime, what, 30 minutes, a half an hour the most?

Most of my neighbors behind me, they work.

Um what else?

I'm just trying to answer all their their questions.

Um far as commercial, like I said, this is not a commercial.

It's just a private family daycare.

That's all I'm wanting.

See how easy that was?

Good job.

Thank you.

I think I'm going to put it over to commissioners.

I think Mr.

Davis has a question.

Thank you for your testimony.

Um it's not a county requirement, but I am kind of curious about one issue.

These I know have came up before.

Um planning on covering insurance, like liability insurance on other children, or is that perhaps in your uh homeowners policy that would be covered in case they got injured accidentally?

Well, I have to be covered because I'm um will be licensed to DSS.

So I was told I definitely have to get uh insurance.

Thank you very much.

Any other commissioners, Mr.

Yeah, uh this is simple.

I mean, this is a community services I as it seems the way you're presenting it.

So this would be open to anyone in your community that would have a need for this.

Yes, and that's why I feel that you know um it would be good because um I can be a help to someone that say if you you you have to work overtime or some people work at hospitals, what have you, and and a lot of times it's hard to get babysitters.

And you know, I'm open to my community if they need help or something goes wrong.

I'm here.

My doors are open for them.

I I have nieces and nephews that I'm I'm old enough to have nieces and nephews who have kids.

Um and I know that daycare is always quality daycare and carrying daycare is always an issue and always a problem.

Um I just I just actually have only one question.

Um I did read the approval from the HOMHOA, and um, but there wasn't anything in there other than the fact that they approved it and at least in my packet.

So um the conditions that you just described to us, you're saying that they were the same conditions that you described to the HOA who are issued the approval.

Yes.

So so if I understand you correctly and how your HOA would work, that as long as you abide by the conditions that they gave you the approval for, there wouldn't be a problem with them.

Correct.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

Mr.

Peterman.

These children are you taking are some of these your grandchildren?

Yes.

Okay.

How many is your grandchildren?

You take one take by six?

I well, I'm a grandmother of seven.

Okay.

But uh how many will be your grandchildren?

Um three.

Three.

Okay.

Thank you.

Any other commissioners including uh Peter?

Paul and Peter.

Yes.

Um ask them, are you taking payment for having children attend?

Um yes, I I have to be licensed through the DFS.

And in order, it's it's like uh a job, yes, y you do.

Oh they pay you for babysitting.

Okay.

And some of the materials that we received previous, it mentions about the covenants of the uh housing development.

Says that there's to be no businesses inside the housing development.

How does that coincide with what you're aware of?

It says lot, it never said inside the home.

And that's when I talked to the uh the president and we discussed that, it says on the lot.

So I wasn't thinking that it was inside my home.

Because it's a private daycare in six children inside the home.

Has the HOA addressed this particular issue?

Yes.

I I talked to them first, and the reason why I'm here because I have some objections.

So they've actually made mention of the covenants and restrictions on development.

Yes.

That's all.

Denise, you have any questions for this applicant?

Not at all.

Thank you.

Mr.

Attorney.

Yeah, sorry, I don't jump in very often, but uh Kent County does not enforce private deed restrictions.

In other words, there's restrictions are for the HOA or for the people within there to do the reason is, and I represent two of the three counties and lots of municipalities.

In other words, unless there's restrictions are written on behalf of or that the county is the only person who can enforce, then it's the neighbors that it's up to them to enforce there, not part of the code.

So that's not a consideration, that's not really a consideration that can go into your approval.

Thank you, sir for straight and I appreciate it.

Thank you, ma'am.

I think we've gone through all the commissioners.

You're welcome.

I'll now ask you, is there anyone else here in favor of this project and would like to speak?

Third and final call.

Is anyone else here in this favor of this project would like to speak?

Give us your name and address, and you can be sworn or affirmed by our attorney.

You can pull that down to you, ma'am.

My name's Annette Fallon.

I live at 1500 South Hancock Avenue in Dover.

Ma'am, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth?

Yes.

Thank you.

Well, I'm I'm a family daycare provider, and I've done family daycare for over 20 years in my home in the communities where I live.

And I just wanted to bring to the forefront what an enhancement it is for the community.

It helps out the community.

That's why I did it.

And um, because parents need good daycare at a reasonable price, because if you get go to a daycare center, you're going to pay probably more like double of what you would normally pay a family daycare provider.

And parents feel more safe with their children home, you know, near home.

And if a parent's running late and the child's in daycare, then they're going to get charged a big lump fee.

But if they're running late to family daycare, that doesn't happen.

And a lot of times kids get off school bus, parents are running late, they can't get home in time, you know, and I was there to get their children so they don't have to rush and have accidents and things like that.

But um, from my sphere and what I see for the past 20 some years in doing family daycare in the community, it's a great enhancement for the community because you got your schools right there, daycare is there, you know.

So that's that's all I wanted to say.

It enhances the community.

Thank you very much, ma'am.

Thanks for coming forward.

Is there anyone else in favor of this application would like to speak?

Hi, I'm Anastasia Jackson.

My address is 41 Doe Hill Court.

Ms.

Jackson, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth?

Yes.

So I just kind of wanted to piggyback off of the initial testimony.

It was mentioned about traffic.

So I did put in the address in my GPS and the entrance from when you come into the neighborhood to the house passes six houses.

So I know that there is a concern of traffic.

Um the only traffic that would be concerning would be for six houses for as far as the entrance to the house.

Well, six to seven.

Um also noise complaints.

I've also been there for almost all my life.

The most noise I have heard has been lawnmowers.

I feel like six kids wouldn't be as loud as someone mowing the grass in the morning or things of that nature.

Um also I do know that quiet hours are between 7 a.m.

to 11 p.m.

Um and considering the hours of operation, I don't think that that would um be an issue for that as far as quiet hours and traffic and things like that.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

To the opposition part.

Is there anyone here that's opposed to this application would like to speak?

Uh online.

Anyone online?

Let's go with the ones in favor first online.

For our guests that's joining us online.

If you would like to speak in favor of application C2601, please indicate by raising electronic hand or pressing start three if you're joining us by phone.

I see no hands raised online to speak in favor at this time.

Thank you, Mark.

We'll now go to the opposition in-house.

Is there anyone opposed to this application would like to speak?

Please come to the mic and give us your name and address, and you can be sworn or affirmed.

Good evening.

My name is Steve Bay Reader.

I live at 418 Fawn Path.

Sir, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth?

I do.

Thank you.

Gentlemen, this is going to be a little bit embarrassing for me.

Um I'm a relatively new member to our community.

I came here from Nevada.

I've only been living in the community for two years.

Recently, I've been uh nominated and voted in as vice president of our HOA.

So it is comes a little disconcerning as far as the uh discussion about HOA approval.

Uh that's not something that as the vice president of the HOA I'm aware of.

We did have some discussion through text messages, and one of the things we did get hung up on were the covenants and the use of the word lot.

I took that to mean from the ground up.

So that would include structures, buildings, whatever.

But I'm not an attorney, so I'm not sure why that verbiage was necessarily used.

I'm not here this evening to support nor not support um the uh the individual's uh desire to have a business.

What I'm really looking for, and one of the reasons I'm here is I'm hoping that maybe the committee here or the attorney here could help me understand that if we have C CNRs in our HOA um covenants, and if they specifically state that no business is to be performed or conducted on the lot, I'm wondering why we're even all here to begin with.

Wouldn't the written documentation be the legal binding uh decision maker as far as people's requests to do something that is outside of.

Now I will agree with one of the other comments that was made earlier.

From what I've seen in the two years that I've been here is that the HOA is very lenient, extremely lenient.

It is not something that um, you know, uh they don't crack down, probably on a lot of things, but I don't know the history.

Again, I've only been here for a short period of time.

And I think the whole reason for the leniency is because we don't want to come across as um, you know, being overbearing or nitpicky.

And you know, that can be a good thing or a bad thing.

And again, uh past history I'm not that not that familiar with, but I do feel it's a little embarrassing for me to be here this evening as the vice president and not realize maybe some of the decisions or lack of decisions that have been made in the past, maybe they're coming back to haunt us.

So um I'll open myself up to questions.

I'd like to tell you that we actually have a document from CJ Myers, who says that he's country field HOA president and he approves this particular application.

Okay, CJ Myers is in fact the president, so that is correct.

So we do have that in our packet.

So his approval would just override what is written as far as the covenants are concerned.

Okay, just making you aware of what we have.

That that's actually not part of our jurisdiction as we were just informed by her attorney, but but um running many companies and and knowing the chain of command if your president says that it's okay.

I'm assuming that that that was a discussion with the members that uh that constitute that body, but if it didn't, that's something that then you're gonna have to take up with your president.

But right now, uh usually your president speaks for and is the representative of an organization, uh, unless you can show me that the vice president or the secretary or anyone else is the spokesperson.

So as long as we've got the approval from the president for us, that's as good as we need to have it because the county doesn't really get involved in these matters.

That's more of an internal problem.

Just for the record.

I I understand but I appreciate what you're saying.

Thank you.

Yeah, that was Mr.

Galvery that had to speak.

I didn't recognize you.

That was okay.

No problem.

Uh Mr.

Attorney, would you like to say anything else?

No, I think you guys covered it.

I mean, the problem with private deed restrictions, right?

They're private.

And they're not government-based.

And um and they're a private contract to be enforced by the HOA, to be enforced by the neighbors, whoever has an issue.

So you know, as far as interpretation of the covenants and things like that, you'd have to go to the HOA, you know, attorney or whatever process that you have.

Um I'm not super familiar because I didn't read the entire HOA documents, but there are tend to be in these type of documents some way to get certain approvals.

So I we have to leave that to the HOA.

We just do it on the land use application that's in front of us.

Thank you for your presentation, what you said, and I assume you're going to have a real interesting meeting when your HOA meets next time.

And welcome to Delaware.

Thank you.

One one last thing.

So given the decision, evidently by the President, right?

So as I understand it, and please uh you know correct me if I'm wrong.

The HOA is the community.

The board is just what the leaders of the community.

Uh I mean what role does the board actually play?

Because I think people kind of get the idea that the HOA is the board and the community is the community, and they're two separate entities.

The way I see it is the HOA is the community, is the voice of the people living in the community.

So to have one individual who happens to be the president of the of the of the panel make decisions for the entire community kind of makes the documents null and void because it looks like one person can make all the decisions and the the people actually living in the community don't have a voice.

I think our attorney wants to speak again.

So the HOA obviously is elected by all the people within the community, right?

And if you think of it, it's a representative government, it's a corporation.

We're talking the board.

Right, the board is a representative government of the people.

And if you don't like what the HOA is doing, you can run for yourself and be on the board and make those decisions.

Sitting here today, we don't know really exactly how this approval came forth, but we do have a signed document from the person who is the leader of that corporation.

So we're going to take that at its word unless there's other evidence presented that that you know that that wasn't true or something like that.

Excellent.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Appreciate your statements.

Thank you.

One else here opposed this application would like to speak.

You have a question for him?

Sir, I think I got a question.

Somebody has a question for you on the council.

The gentleman that was just up there.

I'm sorry.

Mr.

Peterman.

You're on the HOA board, you said, correct?

That is correct.

Okay.

Have you denied or opposed in any way for any other daycare centers in there or approved?

You're asking as as far as I'm concerned as as a vice president of the HOA?

Yes.

I think what we should be doing as far as the as far as the board is concerned, as far as the corporation is concerned, we should be following the guidelines because we expect the people who live in the community to follow these.

We should be setting the example.

Did you vote to approve that?

No.

But the others on the board did.

It came as a little bit of a surprise to me.

Like I said, I did see text messages because I'm copied on them as well as the other board members discussing what is in our documents.

But I don't there was never a vote that I'm aware of.

Do you have any other home service businesses in that development?

Not that I'm aware of.

Okay.

Thank you.

That's it.

Thank you, sir, for coming back.

I think I saw somebody else that was opposed and liked to come up.

If it's your name and address, you can be sworn or affirmed.

My name is Nicole West and my address is 84 Fawn Path Drive.

Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth?

I do.

Thank you.

So Valerie and I have been neighbors for 20 years.

We were original homeowners.

My concern is just that the deed restrictions, the way that they're written, is that there should not be any businesses.

And I know that we're kind of going back and forth as to whether you know that's enforceable, that's not enforceable.

But I know that we haven't allowed any businesses in 20 years.

And when I say businesses, I mean where customers are, you know, you have a like a customer or client coming into the home that I'm aware of.

And I'm not saying that I am aware of everything in the neighborhood, but it's pretty small.

We did have a lawn care um a man that owned a lawn care business.

He did park his truck in the driveway, but there were not customers coming to the house.

There was an ice cream truck driver.

The ice cream truck did park at the house.

That's true.

But there were not customers coming into the house.

So I think that there, you know, there is other businesses, and I would just want to be clear as to the comings and goings of people into the home and out of the home.

And I think, you know, talking about the potential for traffic, um, you know, there there is that you know increase in traffic.

We have 60 homes, it's not a lot.

Um so, and I know Valerie doesn't plan on having nine, but if I understand the application, it did say she could have up to nine, so she could change her mind.

But for us, if you're talking about nine families coming in, nine families going out, and then again at pickup, and then again at leaving, um, that is significant for our neighborhood.

And I just want to, you know, just make that that known.

Um in reference to what I think that has happened with the HOA based upon my interaction, because I know that that seems to be uh a little bit of a a sticking point with this, is based upon my conversations with CJ, who is the president.

Um when I asked him about this, because when I received the letter, I stated, CJ, I did not think this was allowed.

And he said the HOA approved, and he used those words approved.

And I said, you the HOA can't approve.

It's written in the deed restrictions that you cannot approve.

And so I posted on our neighborhood Facebook to say, just want to let everybody know because only the the residents within 200 feet received the letter.

I want to let everybody know, like, you know, this is out there.

I just want to make sure everybody is aware of it.

Um, because not everyone would receive a letter.

So of course that started some conversation on uh Facebook.

And the wording from CJ at that point did change from approve to the HOA cannot approve.

It is not within the HOA's ability to approve or to decline.

And that was what was stated and so I I do think that Valerie was told approved.

Um he told me approved.

Um, but also then he said that the HOA does not have that's not part of the application process, is what he said.

Valerie is certainly welcome to apply to have a business, but that the HOA, and he said he included the deed restrictions and whatever it was that he did send in.

And so I don't I think maybe um there's just a little bit of wordplay here.

Um, but I do think that the word approve was used, but then also it was mentioned that the HOA does not have um the capacity to approve or to decline an application, that would be up to the county to decide.

Um when I spoke with the ombudsman um for Delaware, um, they seem to think that the HOA uh restrictions are enforceable.

So I guess that's another thing for us to try to, you know, figure out if you know we go down that road.

Um but that's uh just I wanted to get some clarification on why we're having you know, whether the HOA did, they didn't, um, and you know uh just you know want to be fair to the other 59 houses in the neighborhood that you know are adhering, and that yes, we you know do have some things, you know, shutters might need to be replaced, somebody might have a trailer or a camper out there too long, those kind of things.

Yes, we do have those.

But I really am not aware of somebody bringing customers into a home and then out of the home.

So I just wanted to share that.

Any questions for me?

Thank you very much.

Any commissioners have any questions?

Mr.

Gulvery?

Um in terms of in terms of what we can look at, and and our attorney will correct me if I'm wrong.

But um, we're not privy to the bylaws of the HOA.

Um I did read over some of the documents and the one clause that everybody seems to mention.

Um it's not comprehensive, it's not really all that detailed.

It's open for some interpretation, I would imagine, but that's still not our our position to weigh in on that one way or the other.

That really has to do with the community and the body that they've chosen to represent them, and then within that body, how they whatever their ruling is in terms of their hierarchy and how decisions are made and how things are voted.

I was mayor of a town for 12 years, so I know that and everything has a little bit of a different procedure, but there's still a procedure nevertheless.

I have in front of me uh a daycare approval document by CJ Myers, and it says attached is the county's field deed restrictions, and that was attached.

It's a 2.4 megabyte file on your by on your laws.

So he's making reference to that.

And then he goes, the board has no objections to allowing you to operate a daycare inside your home.

So unless there's something rescinds that, not an innuendo or he said or I heard or something was on Facebook, this is all we've got to go on.

And I don't believe we have the authority uh to override what your community's documents say or interpret them.

That's the decision for your board.

That's why you've elected them.

So if there's something in your documents that gives latitude, something in your documents that gives variances and things like that.

Um I didn't look over the whole document.

Um, but you do have an attorney that knows that quite well.

So I think that's where this has to go back to.

It has to go back to this is an internal matter as far as I'm seeing it.

I don't see how we have we're able to weigh in on how you interpret your bylaws.

Mr.

Garver, you have it exactly correct.

Um just to I I wasn't commenting on the enforceability of the deed restrictions, and if I gave that impression, I'm sorry.

I'm saying that this board does not have the authority to interpret or enforce those restrictions because they are private restrictions.

And there's courts and lawyers, and you know, that does that.

But this board doesn't is not in the business of interpreting the deed restrictions.

That is a private covenant, and that's something that needs to be enforced outside of the Regional Planning Commission of Kent County.

Yeah, and I understand what you're saying legally.

Um I think it's disappointing, though, I do have to say, you know, you you know, you know, we move into a neighborhood.

I know so folks have moved into our neighborhood because they didn't allow businesses, because they may have been in a neighborhood that did allow businesses before.

And you know, it it can negatively impact, you know, uh, you know, property values, that kind of thing.

I don't think a daycare would do that.

But I think once you also you know open up the approval process, um, then where does that then stop if our deed restrictions are not enforceable by the county?

And uh, you know, I do and I understand that you can't get into it.

It's it's legal, but I do want to stay because to me this I'm no I'm no lawyer by any means, but it does say section one, no trade, business, commerce, industry, profession, or occupation shall be conducted on any lot.

There's more to that, I understand, but that to me is pretty overreaching, and I think we knew at the intent of the Ma'am, you've exceeded your five minutes.

I hate to cut you off, but we've kind of beat this whore to death, I think, and we can't do anything about it.

So I'm gonna have to ask, is is that are you done with your presentation?

I'm done with my presentation.

I appreciate that.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else here against this application would like to speak?

Please give us your name and address.

And I'll remind you all you have five minutes.

So we'll be cutting you off, and the attorney actually keeps time on this.

I was a little lax in the first one.

I'll do a better job.

I know.

We'll have to catch you up on that.

Hello, my name is Rick Stone.

I'm a 64 Country Field Drive.

Sure, pull that up to your mouth.

We can't hear you, Mr.

Stone.

64 Country Field Drive, Rick Stone.

Mr.

Stone, do you swear with me just a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit?

You swear to head surgery, and uh gonna have to read this one.

I need to swear you in.

All right.

Thank you.

Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth?

I do.

Thank you.

All right.

I know that I don't want to rehash a lot that's been said too, because most of this I probably would be saying in repeat also.

However, I got to say that I did talk with CJ about this when it came up, and I believe that he used some faulty logic, and I think that he may have acted more so on his own than as a board group.

Uh and that I think that's backed by the testimony of Steve, my other neighbor here, which is the vice president.

But anyway, a couple of things that he brought up to me when I challenged him on this was the uh landscaper that lived in the neighborhood and you know, the premise that you know running a business, that's what he was doing.

The landscaper, which I've lived in the neighborhood for 15 years out of the 20 of the neighborhood, he would go to work and he had a business that was uh located in another neighborhood where he ran his business out of and he would come home.

And I think we all do that, going to work and come home, right?

So there shouldn't be any uh, you know, disagreement with that.

The ice cream truck was the same thing.

Matter of fact, the ice cream truck guy lived in the vice president's house, and he used to drive the ice cream truck to work, do his job, come back home and park that.

And that was the logic he used to approve Valerie, which I've known her, she is the first person in the community that I met when I came here and retired.

But anyway, that was his logic, and uh I challenged him on it, and I told him it was faulty logic at the time, and I say that from a little bit of an experienced position on that because I was a neighborhood HOA president for four plus years.

And as an HOA board, I have to say that you are responsible to be the gatekeepers for the community, because what you do is you represent that other 59 people that live in that community.

And I can also say this that when I went and bought my house, I bought my house because there was an HOA, a rule and a guideline.

I'm kind of used to that because I spent 30 years in the military following rules and guidelines, and I wanted to protect my investment.

Also, the CCNRs that we have for the neighborhood were presented to me before I bought my house, and all the other 59 members out of the 60 community got those also, and they were also signed at close.

And I had witnesses as my real estate agent and the lawyer that I purchased the house from that were doing the closing paperwork.

So I understand your position, but I also have to take note that you know, 60 residents, 59 minus Valerie here, are following these guidelines.

And we expect, you know, some privacy.

Uh we also expect our property values to be protected.

And I think that the gatekeeping from the HOA could be better.

But we do have a representative.

We have a vice president right here right now that if that president made that mistake, that false uh decision, or misjudged decision, and he said that he likes to follow the CCNRs, that's good enough for me.

But that's my position on that as a resident.

So I appreciate it.

But uh, you know, I wanted to say my piece.

We have plenty of members of the community here that uh are not in favor of this, and I hate to see something like this by one individual drive a wedge with 59 other individuals in the neighborhood.

Thank you for your presentation.

I think Mr.

Galbrey has something he wants to say.

Um just so that we don't keep beating this dead horse.

Um I mean, you did indicate that you that the community looks at this body as the gatekeepers, and that kind of cuts both ways.

We look at them as the gatekeepers too.

So uh within the body of gatekeepers, the president is usually the spokesperson for the that body.

And so far, all we have is that document.

Um I don't know what date that document came, and I don't know what time you had or everybody else had these other conversations, but subsequent to this document, we've not received another document that rescinds this one, where the president said in consultation with the rest of my board and further review and so forth and so on.

I rescind what I just said and I correct, stand corrected and issue this ruling.

So it's it's not for us, but it's as far as we can take it.

So I suggest that if what you're all saying is true, that he regrets what he's saying, um, then get him to uh to to submit something to us that counters what he already submitted to us because right now this is what stands.

I I completely understand that, and uh I think that our vice president here will probably be able to do that.

I would uh also say that I challenge CJ Myers and I told him I said if he has a problem with the C CNRs, then we need to do an amendment and put it out to the community to vote on that to get the everybody in line with that as a community.

All right, thank you.

I think Mr.

Davis has something.

I just want to say one thing.

Uh I this is a very essentially the thing.

I've been on the Planning Commission for a long period of time.

And you're not the first group that's dealt with this.

We've heard this time and time again.

And I think you heard the attorney say it's not within our jurisdiction is to enforce your law or your regulation that you have in HOA.

So we're really beating a dead horse to death.

And what really needs to be done and needs to be corrected somewhere.

I don't know if it's a legislative thing that needs to be done, if that should be a county thing.

But I feel for you people, I understand your situation.

But we do say I know 20 or 30 times since I've been on the planning commission.

And people leave, they get mad about it.

There's nothing we can do about it.

It's just the bomb lash.

That's what the law says.

That's what we can apply with.

I hope you understand.

What our situation is also.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

All right.

Thank you.

And I think I might recommend also that your levy court commissioner is Mr.

Scott.

You know, maybe you ought to get together with him.

He's our levy court spokesman.

And he might be able to help you out or speak on this subject more than what we have.

All right.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Is there anyone else here who's in opposition to this application would like to speak?

Is there anybody on the phone, Mark?

Is it in opposition would like to speak?

For our guests to join us online if you would like to speak in opposition to application C2601.

Please indicate by raising your electronic hand or pressing star three if you join us by phone.

I see no hands raised online, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you very much.

And I didn't see anybody else get up, so we'll be taking this application up next week.

Thank you all for attending.

We'll now go into our second application for tonight.

It's actually C26 Dash 02.

Owner is Del Marva Power and Light.

PO box 30846 Charlotte, North Carolina.

Additional contact is ingenuity infrastructure, Stephen Amos, P8.

Ridge Avenue Suite 323, Red Bank, New Jersey.

Property location is 3370 Farmington Road, Harrington, Delaware.

Present zoning district is IG.

Relation to the Growth Zone is inside.

Present use is an electrical substation.

The proposed use is the same with a control structure.

Levy Court District is Mr.

Hertz.

School district is Lake Forest.

Our district is Harrington Station 50.

2.9 plus or minus acres on the east side of Farmington Road.

Is there someone here to represent this application?

Yes, sir.

You give us your name and address.

And if you're are you an attorney?

Yes, sir.

I'll introduce myself.

You won't have to be sworn in then.

Thank thank you.

Good evening, Chairman Jester, Commissioners, Mr.

Walton, members of the public and members of planning staff.

My name is McKenzie Sindelar, and I'm an attorney at the law firm of Saul Ewing with offices in Wilmington, Delaware.

And I'm here on behalf of our client, Dalmarva Power and Light, which I'll refer to throughout my presentation as Dalmarva and DPNL.

Representatives of the applicant are also present this evening, including Diego Pinata, DPL substation engineer.

Jeff Leon, also a DPL substation engineer, and Beatrice Colette, DPNL principal and project manager who's joining remotely.

Other members of the project team are also joining remotely, including John Crowhart, professional engineer and project manager with Burns McDonnell, as well as Stephen Amos, professional engineer with inj ingenuity infrastructure.

As was introduced, the applicant seeking a conditional use for an electric substation with control enclosure.

I'll provide an overview of the site and the conditional use request.

And at the conclusion of our presentation, we can of course answer any questions that you may have.

So the property is located on the east side of Farmington Road, approximately 660 feet north of Fairground Road, south of Harrington in Kent County.

The property is approximately 2.9 acres, and it currently operates as an electric substation.

It was grandfathered, uh, with an existing 600 square feet control house.

While the applicant does not know the exact year that the Harrington Harrington substation became operational, they have blueprints from 1936 that reference structures at this site.

The applicant believes the facility was built between 1936 and 1938, meaning the site has operated in this way for uh at least 90 years, possibly longer, predating the zoning code.

The applicant seeks a conditional use for an expansion of and improvements to the existing substation with a control enclosure.

The project primarily involves replacing the older control building with a new control enclosure and upgrading existing equipment, including breakers, switches, and relays.

The existing 600 square foot control house and certain um other structures that support wires for the substation will be removed.

These improvements are essential for modernizing and maintaining critical electrical infrastructure, reflecting routine upgrades necessary to support a safe and reliable energy system as customers' needs evolve.

Notably, the proposed work will take place entirely within the existing um substation footprint.

I'll also add that the new enclosure is necessary for several reasons.

First, the current control house is cramped, making operations and maintenance very challenging.

Second, the applicant is investing in new transmission relays and a more centralized housing for all relays, which enhances safety and efficiency.

And finally, these upgrades directly address safety concerns regarding electrical operations, again, improving reliability and performance.

The site itself is zoned, i.g., general industrial, according to section 205-7K of the code.

The purpose of this district is to provide a wide variety of industrial uses, including those that may produce some objectionable conditions and to concentrate more intense industrial uses in areas that would least impact neighboring land uses.

The proposed use is classified as an industrial use and it aligns with other uses in the zoning district that are permitted by right, by conditional use or otherwise, and is permitted technically as a utility miner within this district.

The proposed use is also consistent with the historical use of the property, as I've mentioned.

Nearby properties to the west and northwest are primarily residential, while the parcel to the south remains vacant, and the property to the northeast is designated for manufacturing.

As previously mentioned, this site has operated in this way for at least 90 years, predating actually the residential development nearby and other uses such as Burris Cold Sage, though it does not predate the original Hippodrome at the Harrington State Farm Fairgrounds.

To the applicant's knowledge, the substation has operated responsibly without incident or adverse impact on adjacent properties with the planned upgrades it will continue to serve this essential role, enhancing service while operating in a manner consistent with its past and present use.

As this commission knows, the purpose of the conditional use procedure is to provide for certain uses which cannot be well adjusted to their environment in particular locations, with full protection offered to surrounding properties by rigid application of the district regulations.

These uses either have unusual characteristics or are generally of public or semi-public character and are essential and desirable for general convenience and welfare.

But because of the nature of the use, the importance of its relationship to the comprehensive plan and possible impact, not only on neighboring properties but on large sections of the county requires the exercise of planning judgment on location and site plan.

Furthermore, conditional use should be approved only if it is found that the location is appropriate and not in conflict with a comprehensive plan, that the public health, safety, and general welfare will not be adversely affected, that adequate off-street parking facilities will be provided, and that necessary safeguards will be provided for protection of surrounding property and persons, further provided that the additional standards of the conditional use article of article of the code are complied with.

Here, the proposed substation with a control enclosure will meet the criteria outlined in section 205-66 that I just read into the record for the following reasons.

The proposed use serves a public interest by providing essential utility services to the community.

As an electric substation, it plays an essential role in ensuring reliable power supply, which is of course critical for the welfare of residents and businesses in the area.

Historically, the site has served as an electric substation and has successfully supported similar uses on a smaller scale, continuing this function now with necessary upgrades, aligns with the established character of the area.

Additionally, existing safeguards such as a robust robust existing fence and security measures are already in place and will remain.

The proposed use also adheres to underlying zoning district requirements.

The project also aligns with the comprehensive plan, which emphasizes the need for reliable utility infrastructure to support the county's technology and accessibility objectives.

By modernizing the electrical facilities, the project supports those strategic objectives that are outlined in the plan.

And finally, the improvements plan for the substation will enhance overall public health, safety, and welfare rather than adversely affecting them.

Upgrades to the facility will modernize existing systems, resulting in increased safety, efficiency, and reliability for Kent County customers.

Finally, all the general conditions specified under the code have been complied with, and the applicant has also complied with the standard conditions of 205-72E, one of which is not applicable at all.

I know that was in the material and staff report.

So in conclusion, the proposed conditional use for the electric substation with control enclosure is consistent with the zoning district and its requirements and Kent County's comprehensive plan.

I'll conclude there and entertain any questions that you may have.

And as I said, we do have the engineers nearby too that can answer any technical questions you may have.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I do have a little clarification.

It's not the Harrington Fairgrounds, it's the Delaware State Fairgrounds.

You're right.

And you're what you read into what's in the initial record.

You're right.

And does it have anything to do with the uh solar farm on the Hobbes property across on the other side?

Yep.

So that's a good question.

So the uh one of the immediate benefits of these upgrades will support that interconnection of the solar development.

Um but these upgrades in general are being um take carried out throughout the state to substations across the state, and so this is part of that larger objective as well.

Thank you very much.

So you're welcome.

Because I I don't know what that solar farm benefits.

I know it's a green energy for some area, but do you happen to have that knowledge?

I don't, sir.

That's okay.

We've already we've already been through that horse field.

Sure.

So uh okay.

I'm gonna open up to uh any of the commissioners, Mr.

Galvery.

Um just a few questions just to get things into my head.

So the we're we're improving the property, obviously, and we're making it safer and and I I would imagine as a result of these improvements more attractive if you were riding by.

Um but um is so is it safe to assume that the amount of traffic that would be involved in say maintenance would be less than the current property because it's more refined or more updated and modernized.

Um I can't speak to that issue.

I would say it would be at least the same.

At least yeah.

Um then uh another question I had was the overall capacity um output of this substation.

Um will this modernized that capacity or does it remain pretty much the same as it was?

I I can defer I would have to defer um specifically to one of the engineers that are here, but I can certainly bring someone up to answer that question.

The only reason why I asked that is just that um I'm just wondering if the um I'm just looking out in terms of surrounding areas, it's not anything that I have any particular concern about, but um increased capacity sometimes is associated with increased noise.

Um I'm just kind of curious about that.

Um also curious about the uh uh the the light footprint from dusk to dawn, um whether it's uh you have more modernized security and so forth, whether the lighting around there that uh is not essential except for maintenance or certain things like that are on motion detectors or are they constantly on.

Um I only look at this from a wildlife point of view because an awful lot of wildlife has problems with more and more light becoming permanent rather than uh infrequent.

Um that was it really.

Umernizing and and keeping the same footprint and doing a better job is always a good thing.

Um but just the from a neighbor point of view is thinking about sound, thinking about light and thinking about traffic.

If you'd like, there are there I Steve Amos on the throne might be able to help answer the capacity or uh like question.

Um I would need to ask him to weigh in on those issues.

Mark, can you pull them up?

Thank you, sir.

Anyone else have any questions?

I do have one for Sarah.

I know when we do cell towers and all, they're required to landscape around it, but I don't see any landscaping around this particular location.

Is they're not required?

It's an existing facility, and the footprint of what they're changing is interior to it.

So it doesn't call for what you would see in a brand new site plan.

Yeah, because I know I live down in that area, so I I noticed you've removed everything that used to be there in the front.

I can tell you why.

Um it's actually a safety and security reason.

So there was a lot of issues.

You may have heard about people stealing copper and things like that.

Um so they the vegetation the screening was removed, and so it's actually safest and most secure to have the facility as it is.

So there's no additional screening proposed.

Um and there's also, and I could have one of the engineers speak to this too.

I I I asked these same questions as I was preparing.

Um there's uh it's best to keep the area around the fencing clear as well due to due to um existing grounding grids too.

Um so that's why there isn't any screening here, and it's not required by code.

Okay, I understand that.

Yep.

Uh Denise, do you have any questions for this applicant?

If you just say the name of the question, no, thanks for asking.

Okay.

Okay.

Does it was there something needs to be said, sir?

It's Stephen Amos at the bottom.

Yep.

Sure.

Um, Mr.

Amos.

Um, I see that you're unmuted.

If you can uh give your name and uh address and be sworn in, and then um uh field questions from the board.

Sure.

Uh my name's Stephen Amos, um 861 West Briar Avenue, Toms River, New Jersey.

Mr.

Amos.

Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth?

Yes, I do.

Thank you.

So there is two open questions, Steve.

And if this isn't something you can answer, we can also um have someone else answer.

But the one was about capacity here, if there'll be improved capacity in general, and the other question was about the light footprint for the area concerned about uh wildlife that um one of the commissioners had.

And and McKenzie, I I did work on the site plan and the civil side of this, so the capacity I'm not gonna be able to speak to.

And I also believe that one of the reps there um from the power company and be better uh able to speak about the actual uh white footprint.

Okay, sounds good.

Yeah, yep.

Okay, can I ask about sound?

Does this generate any sound?

Are you gonna have to have somebody else sworn in?

Or the gentleman on the we'll be at the end of the day.

Yeah, you're gonna need to uh swear in one of the substation engineers.

Yes.

Yep, thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, so Mr.

He's done, is he done with his comments?

Yes, sir.

On the phone.

Okay, sir.

If you give us your name and address, you can be sworn or affirmed.

Yep.

Um so my name is Diego Pineda, substation engineer for Delmar Power.

Sir, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth?

I do.

Hold the microphone up to you, sir.

We can't hear you.

Yeah.

Can you hear me?

Yeah, how about the noise?

Uh so there should be no additional noise.

Um, same with the capacity.

Capacity is limited by the transformers that we have in the substation, those won't be changing.

Um we shouldn't be seeing any additional noise or um increased capacity.

Could you also speak to the light issue?

Yes, we will be adding um lights on the new control house, obviously, but they will be on motion sensors, so they will not be on when not necessary, only during maintenance or you know, during nighttime activities as field personnel require.

Is that okay, Mr.

Galbury?

Thank you.

Thank you for answering those questions.

Any other commissioners have any questions for any of these three individuals?

Thank you very much for your presentation.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else here that's in favor of this application would like to speak?

Anyone else in favor of this application would like to speak?

Third and final call, and I'll ask on the line, phone line.

Is there anyone here that would like to speak in favor of this application?

For any of our other guests online, if you'd like to speak in favor of this application, please indicate by raising electronic hand.

No hands raised online at this time, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you very much.

So now we'll go to the negative side.

Is there anyone here that's opposed to that application?

Anyone here that's opposed to this application would like to speak.

Anyone here that's opposed to this application would like to speak.

Third and final call, even online.

Is there anyone here opposed to this application would like to speak?

For our guests online, if you would like to speak in opposition to this application, please indicate by raising electronic hand or press install three if you're joining us by phone.

Still no hands raised online, Mr.

Chair.

Okay, thank you all.

And we'll be taking this application up next week at our business meeting.

Next is our third final application for tonight.

His plan number and title, SL-26-03 Barracks Landing.

Location is located on the south side of Barrett Chapel Road, 860 feet southeast of Buffalo Road.

Owner is Prouse Farms LLC 2000, Brent Jordan Way, Milford, Delaware.

Applicant at Eastern States Development 818, First State Boulevard, Wilmington, Delaware.

Engineers, Becker Morgan Group, 309 South Governors Avenue, Dover, Delaware.

Present zoning district is AC.

Levy Court District is a fourth, Mr.

Scott.

School district is Lake Forest.

Fire district is Federica.

Station 49.

Site size is 90.12 acres, plus or minus.

Relation to the gross zone is inside.

Density is 2.71 units per acre.

Streets are going to be public.

Water is Artigen Water Company.

And I assume Mr.

Ryman, you're here to represent this application.

Would you give us your name and address, please?

Mike Ryman, 309 South Governors Avenue, Dover, Delaware.

You swear firm that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth.

Yes.

Right ahead, sir.

Good to see you here again.

Good seeing you as well.

Good evening, uh, commissioners.

Um, as I said, my name is Mike Ryman with Becker Morgan.

We are the engineers for the Barrett's Landing Subdivision Project that we're going to present this evening.

Um I do want to introduce members of our team.

I've had John Folkowski with me, who is our project engineer.

Uh, John Pardee, our legal counsel, Rich Julian with benchmark builders, the developer of the project, and Jim McCaulay with Watershed Eco, who is our environmental scientist.

Um, so we are here to present an application to request preliminary subdivision approval for Barrett's landing subdivision, which is a 244 lot single family development on 90 acres.

It's not switching.

I'm hitting the button.

I swear this gets rigged when I come here.

I think you do you do this to me?

Is that what you do?

Subtopic.

All good.

Thank you.

Technology doesn't like me.

All right.

Um so first I want to begin by just kind of getting our bearings straight as to where this this property is located.

You can see uh the yellow arrow there is pointing to our site location, uh, which is between Magnolia and Frederica on that sort of northern side of Frederica.

Um this property is located within Kent County's Growth Zone, which is highlighted in the purple boundary on the map.

Um, and the growth zone is where development is encouraged in areas with infrastructure and to protect agricultural lands outside of this zone.

Uh developments within this zone are serviced by or planned for central water and sewer and other infrastructure.

The 2025 State Strategies for Policies and Spending Map is shown on this slide, and you can see where the word site is.

That is our location.

It is within level two of the state strategies for spending.

Uh level two uh is identified as urbanizing areas and receiving priority funding for infrastructure which aligns with this development.

Next is the Kent County Sewage Disposal District map.

Uh, this property is highlighted with the red now word site there is located within Kent County Sewer District.

Um, it was annexed into the Spring Creek area on October 14th of 2025 via resolution number 4135.

Next, uh zoning.

Uh, this property is zoned.

Uh, agricultural conservation AC.

Uh we are not uh proposing to change that zone.

Um this zoning district allows for single family detached dwellings, uh, which is exactly what is being proposed with this application.

Um, and the AC zoning district in the green is completely surrounding this property, so clearly consistent.

Next is the Magnolia Transportation Improvement District, or TID.

Uh this is currently under development in consultation with Dell Dot and Kent County.

It is anticipated that this TID will be complete by the summer of this year.

Uh you can see our project highlighted by the star on the map, is located within that TID.

Uh, and TIDs are where growth is planned and infrastructure is planned.

Highway infrastructure particularly is planned to align with growth.

Next is uh I just wanted to point out the the location of this relative to the Little Heaven grade separated interchange, which I'm sure everybody has probably driven through at this point.

Um it was completed in the fall of 2019.

It was a 40 million dollar project.

The extents of that project are highlighted in yellow.

Uh this created an overpass and some service road connectivity and access onto Route 1, realigned Barrett's Chapel Road to the top.

Um, our site literally is at the limits of that uh highway improvement.

This was a major highway and transportation infrastructure improvement, uh, which is in very close proximity to our site, which means that our site will have really good and safe access to Route 1 to head north and south.

Um, as it relates to the comprehensive plan, the comprehensive plan identifies this area as low density residential.

The applicable zoning districts in this area are agricultural conservation, of which this property is currently zoned.

And within that district, it is noted in your comprehensive plan that single family detached residential is an appropriate use in the zoning district and within the comprehensive plan.

And that again is what is being proposed here.

This is now zooming in on the site itself.

You can see Barrett's Chapel Road off to your right where that curve starts to happen at the bottom of the page.

That is the extents of that realignment of Barrett's Chapel Road that I just talked about as part of the Little Little Heaven project.

We've surveyed the property.

One of the first things that we do is we develop a piece of property, is survey the property, identify any of the resources on the property.

We hire somebody like Jim to go out there and take a look at the wetlands and produce a report, which is part of the application.

And what you see on this plan is that it's about a 90-acre parcel.

A majority of the parcel is in agricultural, being farmed, actively farmed.

There are some woods in the back of the property.

There are some wetlands on the property.

You can see those highlighted in the blue line there, and it kind of goes along the perimeter of the property.

We also have shown the 25-foot wetlands buffer, which is per the Kent County code that is shown in yellow.

There is also a floodplain.

You can see that highlighted in green on the on the map, largely outside the agricultural area and closer to the streams.

And then also there is a stream buffer in your code, and that is highlighted there in yellow and identified appropriately.

That little sort of pond figure there in the back, right here, is an existing man-made borropit.

We're going to talk about that in a little bit.

But this was the first sort of step in the design process to understand the constraints of the property, respect those buffers, and respect those resources as we develop the design.

Moving on to our plan itself, this is the layout of the project.

This is 244 single-family lots.

We do have two access points proposed to Barrett's Chapel Road, one located there, and then a second access point located there.

We did feel that it was appropriate to have two access points for this subdivision for circulation purposes.

A majority of this project is within the agricultural lands.

We're going to talk about in a little bit.

The code allows for a minimum lot size of 5,000 square feet.

We are about 5200 square feet with lots that are in the 52 by 100 or 52 by 110 foot range.

The design of the development is one, you know, we have good circulation through the development, interconnection within the development, and we do not have a lot of dead-end streets.

We do have one caul-de-sac area here in the southern side.

We're somewhat limited there due to the constraints of the property and the existing drainage way that is in this location.

We are proposing some active recreation here in the middle of the site.

We have a gazebo and some areas there, and then some walking paths that connect and go around our stormwater facility, then walking past that, get some access down closer to towards Spring Creek.

This site, there is no disturbance to the wetlands, but for the stormwater pond, and there's uh we are respecting the buffers in accordance with the code.

I do want to point out that this design that you're seeing here is essentially identical to the design of the village of East Ridge subdivision in northern Kent County, uh just south of Smyrna, Delaware.

The lot sizes are essentially the same.

Uh that project was actually designed by the same engineering firm, Becker Morgan, built by the same developer here, uh Rich Julian from Benchmark Builders.

I believe it's fully built out now.

Um I know that that project has gone very well.

There's been, you know, no complaints there.

It's been a successful project by by all measures.

So there is, you know, a testament to what is being done here, has been tested and proven and been successful in Kent County.

Okay.

Moving on to bus stop locations.

Um we did coordinate with the Lake Forest School District.

Uh, there is correspondence in the packet with Lake Forest School District.

Uh they requested three to four bus stops in these locations.

Um, and what you see is the bus route that comes into the site, enters into the primary entrance, uh, and then you know circumvents the property.

Uh there are four locations, generally at areas of open space, so there's you know, areas for kids to congregate safely.

Um then as we zoom in in the one location that we have here, uh, which is near the cluster mailbox location, uh, we do have uh parking spaces there.

So if parents wanted to drive their kids, you know, and park there, they could and uh wait for the bus in the morning.

Um the letter is in the packet, and um I can't remember exactly what it says, but I think it basically states this is exactly what they what they're looking for.

So we did work with them and and believe we've satisfied their request in terms of buses.

Entrance improvements, um, as with any project, of course, there's going to be entrance improvements.

Um I know there was some correspondence uh from some neighbors in the packet uh with concerns uh given the existing condition of the road of the road's not going to stay in that condition.

Um we are gonna add turn lanes, um, and what you see here is at our primary entrance, uh there will be a new right turn lane.

Uh sorry, pointing right there, about 240 feet.

There will be a new left turn lane, 285 feet.

Uh, and then at this entrance, which is anticipated to be a right in and right out entrance, there will be a right turn lane of 195 feet.

In addition to that, bike lanes will be added, which is required by Dell DOT, and shoulders would be added as well.

I think someone had made a con uh made a reference to well, there's no shoulders.

Um there's going to be shoulders uh on this uh access and throughout the frontage of this project, and it will connect to the limits of the improvement from the Little Heaven project.

Drainage.

Um there's always questions and and concerns about drainage.

Um this project will be drained via a system of closed drainage pipes.

This is just showing really just one block is a prototypical design that of how we would drain these.

Uh in yellow, what you see are our storm drain pipes.

It is anticipated that we will have storm drain pipes in the rear of the lots with catch basins here, here, here, uh, and grading the lots to those points.

And in fact, I think that's consistent with the most recently adopted drainage code uh that Kent County has adopted.

Um that closed drainage will connect to the closed drainage within the street system and ultimately drain to the stormwater management facilities.

Um this will all be reviewed by Kent Conservation District as well.

Um, and then the picture at the top just gives you kind of a cross section to show how that's all gonna work.

Um with this being uh you know, 5200 square foot lots, we want to make sure that there's adequate drainage, and the best way to do that is really through a closed drainage system.

Uh this is very similar to how the Village of East Ridge project was was also designed and constructed.

Um, and I did speak with Jared Atkins to find out if there's been complaints there or issues, and there really has not been uh drainage issues within that development.

This has again been a proven uh design that we're gonna replicate here.

Um I mentioned, and it's in your packet as well.

I did mention there's a number of waivers here that I wanted to discuss with you.

Um the first one is related to a roadway crossing within a wetland buffer.

And the reason for that goes back to and that is actually shown by the number one on the map.

So in order for us to have the second entrance and have spacing and meet spacing for that, we need to cross the the existing ditch that is in that location, uh, number one.

Uh this is something that's been done numerous times on projects uh throughout the county.

Um, but it it does require a waiver from this body to do that.

Um, and and that is one of the waivers that we're requesting, and I believe staff has recommended approval.

Uh the second waiver is for a walking trail within a wetland buffer.

Um so we that is shown as number two, so right here.

So we have a walking trail around our stormwater facility and into the woods to try to activate that space and bring that in as an amenity, connecting it with our walking trail system internally within the development.

But because it is within the buffer area of a wetland, now at that particular wetland for that facility, it's a man-made burrow pit, but it technically meets the criteria of a wetland.

So it is a wetland, but it's a man-made burrow pit that we're going to convert into a stormwater facility.

That does come with that request does come with a waiver, and uh the staff again has recommended approval of that waiver.

Um really, you know, we're trying to balance a couple things.

If we push the walking trail out further, we're gonna have to clear more trees to do the walking trail to have more distance from the stormwater.

We'd rather not do that.

Uh so we're trying to minimize that impact.

Um, and let's see, going back, number three.

Uh number three is the what I had talked about previously.

Conversion of non-jurisdictional wetlands to a stormwater pond.

Um, you know, an existing burrow pit facility, not the safest thing to have on a property.

It doesn't have the right slopes.

Um, it's you know not something that's maintained.

Um, and we felt the best use of that was to convert that into a stormwater management facility.

Uh we did reach out to, and John, if you could actually hand out the letter, or whoever they already have it.

Oh, excellent.

Um so we did reach out to Jared Atkins at the Kent Conservation District to discuss that idea.

Um, he is fully supportive of that.

Um, he's provided a letter, which you all should now have supporting this waiver all for the same reasons.

Uh it is a safer uh improvement to convert that facility into a stormwater pond that has um slopes and safety benches and other measures required by Denrec and Kent Conservation District.

So that is in your packet.

Uh next is number four, which is related to a hundred-foot setback from building restriction line to a stormwater management facility.

Um the staff is recommending a modified approval of 30 feet from parcel lines and 35 feet from building setbacks.

We're we are in agreement with staff on that recommendation.

Um, and if you look at the letter from Jared Atkins, he's also uh supportive of those distances as well.

Um those actually exceed the state requirements for setbacks from stormwater management anyway.

Um and then lastly, number five is a waiver from linkage streets to adjacent lands.

Number five, that what this is talking about is having connections to say this property or Cattail Creek to our north.

Um we have a stream that essentially circumvents the property here, and so you know that would be uh require disturbance and and bridges and things and wetland disturbances that would be excessive in order to provide those connections.

Cattail Creek did not provide a linkage over to us, uh and it doesn't really make sense to provide a linkage back over to them.

So that is why we are requesting a waiver uh from the linkages.

There's really no opportunity to do that.

So to summarize on the waivers, um, all of these have been recommended uh to be approved by your staff or the planning department staff, I should say.

Um, and uh we ask for your approval if you were to make a motion to approve it.

So to conclude, uh this property is located within the growth zone overlay district.

It is properly zoned AC with the appropriate unit type uh for that zoning district, which is a single family zoning district.

The property is within your sewer district.

It is in within level two state strategies, which is where development is encouraged.

Um it is within the Magnolia TID, which comes with uh coordinated transportation improvements.

This exceeds all minimum code requirements and provides additional environmental protection, uh minimizes tree clearing above and beyond uh the code limits.

This is a pedestrian friendly, walkable community with a design focused on quality.

Um and the project conforms with the intent of the comprehensive plan and surrounding zoning, and as stated before, this has been a this is a proven successful design that's been implemented by this exact same team within the county already.

And then lastly, uh we did receive a copy of the staff report.

We don't have any issue with the recommendations in the staff report.

Um and uh the staff did recommend approval of the project.

So with that, I'll be happy to answer any questions that you may have.

Okay, I'm gonna turn it over to commissioners in a minute.

I got a couple on my own.

I don't like the idea of you taking down three to four acres of woodland because I'm into forestry quite a bit in conservation.

I guess there's no way for a redesign to maintain any more woods.

Well, so we did our best to minimize the woods.

It's far in excess of what we could do under the county code.

Um we're protecting about 85% of all woods, and I believe we we would only need to, Sarah, what would be the minimum that we could have done?

30%.

We could have we could have cleared as much as 70% and saved 30.

Um part of the reason is the conversion of that one area to a stormwater facility.

So part of it is the burrow pit area itself.

So in order to do that properly, we do have to clear some woods to make that happen.

Uh the other reason is the stormwater management.

I mean, naturally, those drainage locations come, they're they're near woods typically, right?

That's where the creek is, that's where the drainage goes.

So we do need to build stormwater, we need to make sure it drains uh and works properly.

So we did our best to minimize it with the three acres, but it but we're saving 85% of the woods.

Have you met with any of the neighbors or pre-meeting with any neighbors in the neighborhood?

We have not.

The only other thing I have is actually on sheet sheet number C 13.

C sheet number C313, excuse me.

I've never seen this on a on a sheet before, but it actually shows a setback line on the outside parcel actually going into a lot for lot sixteen.

I've never seen that.

I think you can straighten that out on your kid by just one of those lines.

We can, and I think we're we talked about doing taking care of that.

We are going to, it was in the code.

I think you're talking about the hundred-foot stream setback.

If I now talk about the parcel setback on the outside where it just comes from the parcel lines along the roadway, and it it actually they have one of the existing parcels uh setback lines that goes into the development there where it's on the side.

And like I said, it's lot 16 on sheet number C 313.

I'm look, I'm looking to tell you what I'd hate to be a surveyor to have to lay this out because the time you put this on a hood of a suburban or something, I don't know how you get it all straight.

I gotta pull that, I gotta pull that sheet, Mr.

Jester.

If you give me one second.

Talking about how big this plan is.

I've done a lot of layouts in my line time, but to lay this on the hood of a truck and try to do the layout, I know it's gotta be very challenging.

Uh okay.

Yeah, so what that is that's the perimeter setback of the perimeter boundary.

All right.

Um, which really as part of it's it's open space, it really wouldn't apply in this situation.

We can clean that up.

I think you can clean that up because that might cause a little problem in writing the legal description of the I think some commissioners have questions for you.

Sure.

What first one here is Mr.

Mr.

Mills.

Thank you for your presentation.

But I'm I'm in the bus business, school bus business, and I know about uh Mr.

Weller's letter that he wrote to the Lake Forest from the Lake Forest School District.

But what wasn't addressed in that.

Now this is designed for when this total project is completed.

And yes, there's a stops are great the way he's got it laid up, but this project's not gonna come up overnight.

It's gonna be years and years down the road before it's completed.

And in his letter, what it states is that once the roads are double blacktop, the finished layers put on is when these stops would come into play.

But what's not in there is when you sell houses, you could sell 20 houses, so I don't know where you're gonna start on this development.

Probably in the front, I would say.

Those kids got to be loaded out on the highway.

Now I've been in the bus business 40 years.

I've been in Lake Forest School District for 40 years.

I'm not in Lake Forest now, but I've been there and I know this route.

I I run up and down this route for years and years picking up kids along here.

Of course, it those days when I picked them up, you could couldn't see the house next one you come to.

But well uh we've had these other developments.

Uh come up there before us here in the last uh four or five months, and we have addressed this.

And they have uh reconciled it by doing something other being able to accommodate those kids that are gonna be houses are gonna be sold uh prior to this project being finished.

And and the way these laid out here, this is only when the project is totally finished.

Is can a bus go in there?

Because uh so what else can be done to change that entrance that these kids could get on and off these buses safely.

Yeah, I think it's a good point.

Um we don't want anybody picked up out on the on the Elm Barrett Chapel.

That that doesn't make any sense to have buses out there and have kids out there at all.

So it totally agree.

I think from a phasing standpoint, one of the it's interesting because you you you're right to uh suggest the property the the project's gonna start in the front of the job, but our stormwater management and our sewer connection actually happens back here.

So it's an it's a unique uh situation where we have some of the stormwater and utilities in the in the back of the job and we have access in the front.

So what that is leading us to do from a phasing standpoint is build this road here first.

And so that means that we can get this bus stop in the back where the parking is in phase one.

And we think that will help address those concerns.

It definitely would, in my opinion, yes, in order to get just so that bus can get around, and you can put the road in uh so it accommodate a bus.

Understood.

Is that good, Mr.

Mills?

Mr.

Peterman.

I see this is project is surrounded by wetlands, and you got the blue line that goes all the way around it from what my picture shows.

And that you're supposed to be a hundred foot off the blue line, that's the mainstream, and you want a variance for that.

Uh and and this in the floodplain.

Do you have any kind of management for this blue line stream?

So let's go back.

Let me pull that up.

So the stream buffer is right here.

This orange, I can't point to it, the orange line that we have right there.

That's what I'm looking at.

Yep.

We are not requesting a waiver from that.

Um there was a comment.

Huh?

I didn't understand.

We're not requesting a waiver from that.

We there was a comment, I think, in the packet, about making sure that that buffer was not on lots.

Um couple, so the county code does allow that to be on lots.

What it says is that you can't build with it within it.

So sometimes those buffers end up on the lot, but outside the accessory dwelling setbacks.

You have a five-foot accessory dwelling setback.

So if that buffer comes onto the lot, say four feet, it's technically code compliant because you're not going to build anything in that four feet.

Um, but we did look at the comment from planning department, and we can make the adjustment just to get it off the lots anyway, if that you know satisfies the concern.

Okay, thank you.

You're very welcome.

Would that be the answer to under staff recommendations under B where it talked about the proposed lot?

I believe that is correct.

Is that is that what you just answered from what he questioned you about?

Yes, it is.

Yes.

I just want to make sure we're not double talking or talking about something that we haven't addressed.

So that's already been addressed in what you just said.

Correct.

Mr.

Davis.

Thank you.

I like your plan.

Um I I do have a concern.

Uh we dealt with this one time before.

It's a follow-up, actually, what Mr.

Wills is talking about.

Not knowing um how you're going to develop this by sections or good systems or whatever you want to call it.

Uh I heard you tell Mr.

Mills that you in the build-out time, and I don't know how long that's gonna be, uh, you'll be able to get that worked out.

So my concern is that as you continue building, you're gonna have a lot of heavy equipment.

You're gonna have people coming in loads of dirt, you're gonna have heavy equipment, you're gonna have people coming in stone, bouncing all over the road.

And depending on where the bus stop may be, that the bus would have to go in there and even turn around.

Uh there's a concern with me.

How are you gonna handle the uh materials coming in there because it could be very dangerous?

We did have another situation where uh we was able to work out they had a um secondary entrance on another road.

But you don't have that option here.

Uh you have uh I would only assume you start off at one entrance and uh you're gonna have debris coming in at those bus stops.

Or somebody happens to walk out to the thing.

I don't know how you're gonna address that.

And I think that needs to be addressed because our public safety of the kids is is top priority with us for the commission.

So I just want to bring it to your attention because I don't know how you're gonna do it.

It's gonna be a 20-year layout.

Uh it's gonna take a while to do this.

But I think that really needs to be addressed because trucks will be going in and out, and we don't want something to fall off those trucks that injure one of those kids waiting at that bus stop.

So I'm just bringing it up.

I'd really like to call it have an answer not so much tonight, but I like to know what you're gonna do about it.

Thank you.

No problem.

Thank you, Mr.

Davis.

Yep.

I mean, we'll work with with Dell DOT.

We have no problem putting in a second construction access to kind of separate it from the primary access.

We've done that in the past.

Um we would need to work with the Department of Transportation through the final engineering and that process through the entrance design process um to cite that and also with Kent Conservation District.

So there are some limitations with phasing uh because you have a 20-acre disturbance limit when you phase, um, and that's controlled by DenREC and KCD.

Um so we work with them on how we would phase all of that, but we would have no problem putting in you know a secondary construction entrance to kind of to get that truck traffic off the primary entrance.

That would be fine if Dell DOT and KCD would allow it.

You say you do have a problem with a secondary entrance for construction.

No, no, I do not have a problem with I was wondering why you look you looked at me and I you I can tell you kind of like one, you know.

I did not have a problem with that.

Yeah, just long as you're aware of it because um that that's a bad situation.

And uh I just want to bring it up.

Uh I like your plans.

Uh it's an RFR district, so uh I like everything you're doing there.

But uh concerned about public safety, so thank you very much.

Thank you.

Any other commissioners?

Mr.

Gobrey.

Just a few.

Umbrimental issues more than anything else.

Um in the in the document, and well, I'll tell you there's an awful lot of pages to go through.

It's like like a deposition or something or discovery, I guess.

Um at any rate, um when I'm looking through the different agencies and what they have to say, um some of them um are more specific and I and you're actually required to work with them, Del DOT and so forth and so on.

Um Denrec tends to be a little bit more uh relaxed and suggests that that you might have a conversation with them and they give you a phone number.

Um of Denrec's um listings though is uh forested wetlands, and they actually give a list of suggestions.

Uh I think it's one of the few of the Den REC categories where they actually suggested what they'd like to see you do.

Um I'm just wondering if you are planning on working with them on some of those suggestions since that you do have, although it's not huge, um I hate to see us lose what we've got, so we do have forested and wetland areas around there.

Yeah.

I mean, so other than the man-made burrow pit, we're not and the road crossing, we're not proposing you know, disturbance to the to wetlands.

Um it's interesting when I had the conversation with Mr.

Atkins at KCD about our stormwater facility in this location, one of the things that you know sort of jumped out to him was hey, this would be a great spot to do kind of a forested wetland stormwater practice um as a BMP.

Um we said we would be happy to work with him on that through that process.

That of course comes through all the final engineering, but uh we think that there's a way possibly to enhance the stormwater facility in that regard.

That uh actually that's a great idea, and it picks up on another one of my other questions was that um you do have that stream all the way around.

And um I'm just wondering if as a baseline before you start to do construction, if you can um get an idea of what the um from a biological point of view, what the health of that stream is, and then um as a a steward of of that land that you're now developing um that will have an an impact on that stream is being able to monitor periodically um whether the quality of that of that um of that stream is has been degraded as a result of the community or has been maintained relatively the same.

Um very rarely does it improve, but maybe it does.

But I'd hate to see I'd hate to see it um degrade and all it is is a neat neat looking picture on a on a map, but in reality, if you were actually to go to it, nothing lives there.

Um so um I'm just thinking that it might be wise to have a a baseline analysis of what the health of that stream is just so that you can uh reassure yourself, your community moving forward that we're not having an adverse impact on it.

Yeah, I mean so fortunately, I mean DENREC really addresses this through stormwater management requirements that we have and erosion and sediment control requirements, which this project will comply with all of those, and and of course it will go through a rigorous review by Kent Conservation District uh as it relates to that.

Um it should you know be noted that as it stands right now, um you can see here this entire area is is an agriculture.

So it's it's being disturbed by the agriculture agriculture.

By the agriculture activity, and there's no controls at all.

Um and there's no stormwater management.

There's no there's nothing to uh catch sediment as as it's being uh disturbed.

So uh when this community is done, we will have stormwater management features.

Uh all of the drainage will be collected via closed drainage sent through those features.

They'll be designed and approved in accordance with DENREC.

So I think it will be an enhancement, uh not a detriment.

Okay.

The last question that um had to do with one of your waivers, uh the waiver two, I think it was, where the staff was um okay with it as long as we made it ADD ADA compliant uh and hard surfaces.

And um I'm not up on um ADA compliance in terms of um walking paths, but um I'd hope that we we can find a way of making those hard surfaces pervious rather than an impervious surface dealing again with our you know our runoff and so forth.

Yeah, it's something we can definitely look at, and I thank you for bringing that up because I didn't mention it and I should have um because we really didn't have an objection to providing a hard surface to be ADA compliant, we're fine with that.

Um we'll work with you know conservation district on the ultimate design of that.

Um I don't know whether it can be permeable or not at this point.

Um, but we don't have an issue with it being a hard surface.

Yeah, if we look at some of our parks around the state, there are a lot of them that are ADA compliant that are that are compacted and and more than suitable, I would think um that are pervious.

So um I think it's you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

I think it's already out there.

Um but it would be nice if we could go that route.

It might actually be less expensive to do in um, but then again, uh over long-term maintenance might be more, I don't know.

But it in in terms of uh the runoff and so forth, it would be nice if it was pervious surfaces.

Understood.

Thank you, Mr.

Gulliver.

I think Mr.

Thank you.

Mr.

I'm having trouble with names and I Mr.

Davis wants a complete explanation on what you want to do on one of your statements.

Yeah, I guess uh the commission uh would feel much more comfortable if um next week if you would come back at the uh next meeting and have something take one of these plans and show us where that secondary road is going to be for construction.

I don't see why that would be a big issue.

You you put a much snow, I think now what you gotta do.

Because we're very concerned about that, but I think the commission would like to see it and on the diagram where it's gonna be and let it go from there.

Yeah, I think that you know happy to do that in a but here's the challenge with that.

The challenge with that is that we don't have total control over that location.

I think ultimately that's something that Dell DOT's gonna weigh in on as well as KCD, and it's gonna be part of the final engineering documents.

Now it'll certainly be part of the final plans that would be approved by the county, uh, but we wouldn't be in a position to make that determination now.

And anything that we would propose uh would have to go through that process.

And and we really aren't at that stage.

Um we're happy to provide it and commit to providing it, but its exact location would be something that I don't know that we can portray at this time.

So you're you're basically passing the buck.

You say you can't do it, and we're in a we're on a box.

No, I'm not sure.

Let me let me finish there.

Uh I'm trying to be reasonable about this thing and do something for you, because it is an issue.

And now you claim that the state of Delaware can't do it in time.

And I'm not happy about that.

This this should have been addressed probably before today's meeting.

Because you you're not gonna build that place at one time.

So as far as I'm concerned, and I think I can speak for a couple of commissioners sitting up here.

We want to know what's going to happen.

If it's just a preliminary plan.

You know, I'm not saying you have to go to Delta, you'd certify, you get the stamp and all that approval stuff.

We want to have an idea of what it's going to be.

Now maybe you don't know how the developer is going to build out on this thing.

What it's going to be a good system from the front and back, back to the front.

We don't know.

And I don't really care how you do it.

What I care about is that kids are out there at a bus stop, and I want some dump chunk go by, a bunch of stone fall off a damn truck, and one of those kids get hurt.

And I think it's a very reasonable request for public safety.

Thank you.

Yeah, I think we can do that.

I think we can present something preliminary.

The way you described it, I think we can do that.

I maybe misunderstood your request.

No problem.

Any other commissioners have any questions?

Denise online.

No, you've you have addressed some of the questions I had, and I do also want to say that it to me it looks like a very well-designed project.

Okay, thank you very much.

Thank you, sir.

Great.

Thank you.

It's always good to see you at the podium.

You too.

Now open it up.

Is anybody else here would like to speak in favor of this project and come up?

Anyone else here would like to speak in favor of this project and come up?

Third and final call and online.

Is there anybody online that would like to speak in favor of this project?

Or in the audience?

For our guests joining us online.

If you'd like to speak in favor of this project, please indicate by raising electronic hand.

See no hands raised online, Mr.

Chair.

Okay, we'll go to the negative side.

I know we had quite a few communications about opposition to this, so I know there'll be some people coming up.

So I'll open it up to the negative.

Is anybody here that's opposed to this application would like to speak?

Come on up to the mic and give us your name and your address.

And you can be sworn or affirmed.

Good evening.

My name is Arthur Adams.

I live at 4793 Barrish Chapel Road.

Mr.

Adams, Mr.

Adams, do you swear or affirm that the testimony are about to give us the truth?

Yes.

Yeah, I would like to say I've never seen a well-documented letter in opposition like that.

I had to get your attention.

I'm pretty sure Susan must have made it up, is all I got to say.

Yes, she did.

By the way, my wife also lived there for over 50 years with me.

Uh I have a I'm not going to go through the whole packet, but I want to bring up a couple things that are still concerning me.

If you look at the map the uh plan right there, and I I believe they called it the Sir?

You can you can point you can point on the screen in front of you.

The screen in front of you.

Now on the screen, you can point with your finger.

You can use your finger, please.

Okay.

There you go.

This area right here.

Okay.

It's a dedicated wetland.

Well, I understand it, that's 25-foot wetlands.

Try to speak into the mic, please.

It's tough, man.

It's a 25-foot uh wetlands buffer.

I need a little edification on that, because right now our ditch, which is connected to that 25-foot wetlands buffer, has been draining our our farm, our neighbor's farm, and the the property behind me.

So basically it's a live ditch.

And I don't understand how if it's a wetlands uh buffer, is that does it mean it's controlled by Denrak?

And does that mean it can it be maintained?

And if it can be maintained, who's gonna maintain it?

I've been doing it for 20-some years.

I'm getting too old to do it.

Okay.

Pardon me if I sound a little nervous.

And they have asked for our variants to allow them to put a pipeline across it.

If that variance is allowed for that pipeline for the second driveway, then the variance should also include from my property ditch all the way through back to the back pond, which is right here.

Which actually, for the many years was a uh, I believe my father-in-law dug it for cattle.

It's been there for I don't know how many years.

And actually, it's been been for ever since we've lived there, almost like a retention detention pond.

Because it as a ditch travels down to that pond, the pipe level of on the other side of the pond was like two foot above the water level, which means when they drain there, it would build up all of a sudden and would go to the bottom and travel out the pipe.

So that's my first one of my first concerns is who's gonna maintain that and can it be maintained.

Uh the second concern I have is the right-of-way, the state right-of-way, the improvements on the right-of-way the infrastructure.

I realize it's gonna be wide and it's gonna have the the turning lanes and so forth.

But if you look at our property and my neighbor's property, if you extend the shoulder over towards our property to the north, even four foot, the slope's gonna change.

When that slope changes, we will not be able to maintain that frontage.

We've done that for 50 years.

State hasn't taken care of it.

Matter of fact, most of those property owners down through there have taken care of it themselves.

So if the if the road is wide and four foot, it's going to be awful close to the right-of-way.

It's going to be the steep drop-off.

Like I said, a lot of the stuff is in my packet, so I'm not going to go through the whole thing.

And my last concern is the pond.

Not the pond, the pit, the borrow pit.

Okay.

It was dug many, many, many, many years ago.

And it was used for farm.

Okay.

Which is also meant it was used for farm.

I don't want to say dump, but things were the trees and stuff, leaves and stuff were put back there, and I believe they were covered up.

So I don't know if it's been investigated to the point where it could be considered a uh a management pond for sale for for the whole development to go through and then continue continue out.

Oh the second entrance, the one that's farthest to the east.

We're very concerned because if you look at it, it's directly across from an existing residence.

Okay.

My concern, our concern is, you know, all that traffic coming through there.

First of all, why do they have two entrances?

Why do they need to?

Why can't the traffic go through the main entrance?

And if they do have to have a second entrance, why can't they move it farther south?

If you can see on the bottom right, the the plan doesn't show how far south the proper east the property line goes.

I'm not an engineer, but I'm pretty sure this area this area down here has been farm just as long as this area up in here.

Which means that there's plenty of room, I'm pretty sure on the east side of the this house.

Mr.

Adams, you're getting close to your five minutes.

Okay, I'm almost done.

East side of that house between that and tied into the old Paris Chapel Road, is it which is now a dead end, and uh existing farm lane ties into that road.

So that traffic coming off that the side would he would not even have to almost fell down.

Would not even affect the new Barrett Chapel Road.

And I'm done.

Thank you.

We appreciate all your comments.

Please look, please read my book.

And I know you learned them from when you went to Dell Tech.

Is anybody have any questions of this?

Any questions from Mr.

Adams?

Mr.

Peterman has some questions for you, sir.

Yeah, we're not done with you yet.

Okay, you told me, you told me to sit down.

On that entrance down by your farm in that bottom corner there, you're talking about the uh wetlands and the pipe that you're gonna put across it.

Yes.

From my understanding, from the dealers I've fed with the Corps of Engineers, they're the ones that are gonna have to okay that or not okay it.

Well, no, I know that.

But but my question is if you approve this plans like it is, okay, based on what you even if the courses.

My concern is who's gonna take care of that ditch?

Well, that that's that's a good concern because somebody that's on that wetland on that blue line is a ditch manager, and that ditch has a name to it that the soil conservation knows what it is, and they know who the management is on that ditch.

And that so it wasn't the property owner for the last 40 years.

Well, you might own the property, but if that's the blue line, that's wetlands, wherever that blue line is is wetlands, you're not allowed to serve that without permission from the Corps of Engineers or and the soil conservation, and then I write.

I understand that state and federally and county funded.

How many years ago was it established as wetlands?

I they'll have to answer that question.

So I have to personally have to contact the core.

Yeah.

Okay.

They're up on off College Road.

Okay.

I don't think there's any tax tits in that area, Mr.

Peterman, so there's no management out there.

That's fair.

It's a blue line stream, is determined by the flow of the stream and all that's not that sticks.

So we'll he can address that.

He can contact the rate source.

Any other questions from any commissioners for this one?

Denise, do you have any questions?

Elongood.

Thanks again.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else here opposed to this application would like to speak?

Please give us your name and address, and you'll be sworn or affirmed.

And you can pull the mic down to you.

My name is Irene Larkin.

I live at 4827 Bears Chapel Road.

Ma'am, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth?

Yes, I did.

Go right ahead.

I live the last house before you get out to the old Bay Road.

This diagram shows that the southern or the eastern driveway will be right in front of my driveway.

If you look, the entrance into this, that smaller piece is right across the street from my driveway.

How long will this development take?

How many years?

I will have to put up with dump trucks, construction trucks, every kind of truck you can think of, right across from my driveway.

It's bad enough that we have a new development being built west of this.

And then I believe there's another development.

I I'm against this.

You put that driveway there.

How do I get out?

It's bad enough now with all the traffic.

Can we see your house now since they've changed the drawing?

Uh where it says Barrett's Chapel Road.

Right there.

And that's where yet they have the entrance to the smaller piece of property.

Right in front of my driveway.

I do not approve of this.

And how many years will this take to be developed?

Does anybody know?

Has anybody said it's going to take us two, three, four, five years?

No one said.

I can't I can't.

I I'm sorry, I'm against this completely.

Thank you.

Anybody have any questions for this lady while she's at the podium?

Thank you very much.

Anyone else here opposed to this project and would like to speak?

Anyone opposed and like to come up?

I can I can speak for one element.

I know Mr.

Adams don't like the two entrance systems, but uh me and Mr.

Davis being in the fire service and all, we always like at least two entrances to a development.

And being it doesn't actually connect to any other side road entrance or any other development, that's why we like the two, because if there's a major collision on the main entrance, we we're afraid that the fire equipment and all wouldn't be able to get in there.

So we always like to see at least two entrances to every development, so it can be maintained for the emergency EMS and first responders.

Anyone else here?

I'll ask on the anybody online that would like to speak against this project, Mark?

For our guests join us online.

If there is anyone that would like to speak in opposition to this application, please indicate by raising electronic hand.

I see no hands raised online, Mr.

Chair.

One more time on for in-house.

I see a lot of people having nobody's got up, so one more time.

Is there anybody else here against this project and would like to speak?

Okay.

Seeing are you coming, sir?

You can go right there.

Great.

Give us your name and address, and you can be sworn or affirm.

Pull the mic up to your hello.

Hi.

Good evening.

My name is Rob Rogers.

I live at 203 Humphreys Drive in Camden.

Sir, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth?

I do.

So this is I got into this family about 30 years ago.

And I remember the days of being on that farmland.

Spend a lot of time with my children on that farmland.

Not long after that farmland become somebody else's.

And when it became somebody else's, it was going to be preserved in land preservation.

And that was what the goal was is to always keep that land within the family.

And they can probably attest to this.

All of that family that's around there can also attest to this.

The plan was to keep it with the family, so at some point the family could eventually develop it.

Obviously, that didn't happen.

Number one, that many houses and ninety acres.

And you know what I mean?

That is an excessive amount of homes for fire service.

Think of how many calls you're already responding to.

Ambulances, our infrastructure.

Talk to our nurses, our doctors.

Talk to anybody that's simply trying to survive.

Get a doctor's appointment today.

And now we're going to bring in how many homes?

Two hundred and what?

Forty-four new families.

This seems excessive to me.

I I'm a realtor too.

And I totally support home sales.

Okay.

Totally support home sales.

But excessive amount of two hundred and forty-four homes in a ninety-acre parcel where you're going to give up your wetlands, you're going to be giving up your infrastructure of the farming areas.

If we continue getting rid of it, we're going to eventually be shooting ourselves in the foot.

And until the infrastructure is there, I've say no.

Thank you.

Anybody have any questions for this individual?

Thank you, sir.

Seeing no more opposition to this particular development, we'll be taking it up next week at our business meeting.

Thank you all, and I really appreciate all attending tonight.

And especially Mr.

Adams for his long report that he turned into us.

Thanks again, sir.

We're now down to any other public comment.

Anyone else would like to say anything?

Come to the mic.

Seeing no public comment, we're into commissioner comments.

Any commissioners have any comments?

Seeing none, we're going down into any other business, Sarah, for tonight.

So we'll be taking all these projects up next week, and I hope you all have a happy week and a great Easter.

And I need a motion to adjourn in a second.

I have a motion and a second, sir, call the commission.

Mr.

Peterman.

Yes, to adjourn.

Mr.

Servan.

Yes to adjourn.

Mrs.

Carcher.

Yes to adjourn.

Mr.

Gaufrey.

Yes, to adjourn.

Mr.

Mills.

Yes, to adjourn.

Mr.

Davis.

Yes, to adjourn.

Mr.

Jester.

Yes, to adjourn.

See you all next week.

Um we get these other ones.