Good morning.

Uh today is October 10th, and I call this meeting of the rules committee to order.

Adam's not online, so please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands.

One nation under God.

Indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Amen.

Thank you.

May I have a roll call, please?

Yes.

Member Kasman?

Here.

Vice Chair Clark.

Here.

Member Cunningham.

Here.

Member Kyle.

Member Peterson.

Present.

Chair Roberts.

Here.

Member Schleck.

Here.

Oh, very.

I'm sorry.

Can I do anything to read that now then?

Yep.

And uh Chair, I'll just say that Member Schlick did notify us in advance that he was going to be virtual for a qualifying reason.

Correct.

Thank you.

So there's the owner.

Yes.

He just got on.

Yeah, thank you.

Um are there public remarks?

There's no public comment.

There are no chair remarks.

Is there unfinished business?

There is not.

New business.

I I wasn't done.

Consent agenda item 8.1.

These have four minutes.

I would make a motion.

Thank you.

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Thank you.

Item 8.2 is a committee action amending section 3D and section V12 of the County Board Rules of Order and Oce Old Procedures by inserting a new section 3.2.

All recommendations for the Independent Ethics Commission for violation of the Ethics and Conduct Code Section L.

Board member conduct are forwarded directly to the Lake County Board for Action and revising a fine financial revising a financial and administrative committee responsibility in section V12 to reviewing and amending the county's ethics and conduct code.

I mean um I'll need a motion.

Motion by Kasman, second by Peterson.

Do we want to chair if I could just give a little um intro to just the process today?

The way that we've historically done the rules amendments is have a committee action for every requested amendment by a board member so that the committee has an opportunity to talk about each one uh at a time and then vote each one at a time.

And then the last item that will be on the agenda is the full adoption of the rules, along with the full adoption of the rules, there will that will also encompass all the actions that we complete here along the way.

Okay there's also this the sheet that I provided you, which is kind of all staff's administrative changes, and I'll go through all those when we get to that item.

But um, I just wanted to kind of set the stage as to what we're doing.

So the first item, and I can bring it up if you'd like yes, please.

Um changes to the uh methodology of how we are um how the ethics uh uh independent ethics commission would function.

And get to the right page.

Oh page of my sounder uh values, transparency and ethics section three of the rules.

There's an independent ethics commission section.

Staff has uh added all recommendations from the independent ethics commission for violations of the ethics and conduct code section L board member conduct are forwarded directly to Lake County Board for Action.

Current the current way that the Independent Ethics Commission works is and that's per the ethics and conduct code.

So if this goes forward, we'd also have to change the ethics and conduct code, but any any recommendations that comes out of that independent ethics commission goes to the finance committee first for enforcement and action before it goes to the full board for action.

So um I'll say member Kasman has put this recommended change forward, and it's it's a change in which the finance committee is not going to be involved in any of the discussion regarding the enforcement of the ethics and conduct code.

Anything that comes out of the independent ethics commission will go straight to the county board.

I don't know if there's anything else you'd like to say.

Yeah, I think um when I was reading through the rules looking for um ideas and and things to to to maybe make better.

Um I saw that uh complaints go to um FA when um we won what we were wanting to do is take the politics out of you know take it out of county board hands.

So it's if we have the independence um at the the independent ethics commission, the idea was to take it out of politics and put it into um this commission rather than having the board be involved in the process, and I thought it if it went to the full county board, it would kind of take the pol the politics out more, and and the full county board could consider it.

Any comments yet thank you.

Um I know once we created the ethics commission, because I remember before we had the independent ethics commission, it was it was very different.

And now I know I'm on finance and we've never I think it stays in the ethics commission, so I feel like we already took the politics out.

So that's so I I don't see a reason to change it.

Really, I I don't feel like it's political um how it is.

I think we did a really good job with the ethics commission because they really take care of it.

So that's what I think.

And I and I agree, I thought, and and I know we discussed this, but I think it's the whole idea was to take us out of it completely.

Yeah, and but if it's coming back to the board, it's putting us back into it.

Well, I think I agree with that.

I think that's more like what I was trying to do.

So maybe I didn't do it right.

Um, I think you know, we should just have the ethics commission make the final recommendation, and that's the recommendation, so that it doesn't go back to the board for enforcement because that's exactly the same thing that was kind of happening before.

It's just there's an independent invest investigation first.

So maybe it should just be the ethics commission recommendations, and then and that's it.

And I and I thought that's what it is.

Do you have a if I could real quick?

Some of the some of the potential um enforcement actions that could that that the ethics commission has the ability to use in response to any board member member conduct violations, one of them is such is the removal of a member from a committee.

The ethics commission doesn't have the ability to do that, that's why it has to go to the board.

Oh, okay.

But what what the process is now is that removal from a committee would go to the finance committee first, and then it would go to the full board.

So this change would just make something like that go straight to the full board instead of stopping at the finance committee first.

And the reason it's like that, I'll just provide a little bit of additional background, is because it was supposed to go to the ethics and oversight committee first and then the full board.

But since the ethics and oversight committee was replaced by the finance committee, we just changed the name from ethics and oversight committee to finance, and that's why it's finance committee.

Okay.

Thanks, Chair.

Yeah, and I but I don't think there's anything, I don't I don't feel uncomfortable with it going to FA.

Um, I just think that's probably an unnecessary step.

Like if it if whatever the item is that comes out of ethics needs the full board action, why don't we just skip the step of going to FNA and go to the full board?

You know, I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't look at it politically.

I think it's more just hey, ethics came up with something it needs full board action or full board advisement.

You know, instead of putting it on uh an FNA committee meeting on a Thursday at 8:30 in the morning, the full board can just be aware of it, you know, at our regular meeting where we probably have better attendance.

Um but again, I don't think it's anything to to prevent anybody on anything on tort or somebody doing anything on ethical.

It's just I think it's just a needless step, in my opinion.

That just get rid of the F and A step and just go right to the board.

I think it'll you know, fortunately, let's I I think we don't have to worry about this too much because we're we're all pretty good people, but you know, in the case we get something, I think it's best if it you know just skips streamlines from the ethics committee, who you know is nonpartisan, you know, non-political, and gets right to the board for us to make a decision as a group.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Commissioner Cunningham and the I agree with uh Commissioner Schlick said, why would it go to finance?

That's that's my question.

Why would it go to finance when it can go straight on to uh to the board?

You know, uh do finance have anything to do with the ecta committee?

Because I know uh uh coming back from myself.

I was charged with on the ecta committee and wasn't even it wasn't even right, but the chair had just got it, and she said, I didn't know I'm going by what they told me.

And when investigated was even me, and it made me embarrassed.

I and I just wonder if there was something if if something was if it had to do with any finances, maybe one of us, you know, maybe that was a thing if there was some money involved in a lawsuit or something, maybe that's why I think it's the administrative piece is is what it is of the FNA committee, as that the the oversight of that ethics and conduct code has to live somewhere.

Okay.

And so we chose the finance committee, but we we included the enforcement of it as well, which is what the ethics and oversight committee had done.

And um that was probably something that that that didn't necessarily need to go there.

Right.

It would was I could follow up.

Oh yes, please.

It was it didn't need to go that far.

And uh sometimes they can take things and throw it out of a portion and no one designs stuff.

Are you okay, Commissioner Peterson and then Hart?

I don't I don't know.

I feel a little bit different.

I I like the way that it goes to finance because it's like it's been through two steps, not just directly to the board, and then you know, we're all trying to make a decision, and I I'm very comfortable with it going to finance first.

Okay, Chair Hart.

Thank you.

So I don't think we I've been trying to think about what do we have that bypasses committee action and goes directly to the full board.

And I, you know, we have some special resolutions, you know, or special proclamations or whatever, I can't remember, special recognition.

Those go to the full board, but that's not really an action.

And anything that we do have that goes to the full board, um, is because something occurred or something went awry, and we need the permission of the committee chair to bypass that committee and bring it to the full board.

So I think what Matt was saying earlier was important, right?

We had an ethics committee, right?

And then when we looked at it and said, okay, do we really need a separate ethics committee that doesn't really meet?

Well, why don't we take those responsibilities of that ethics committee and put it within FA instead of keeping this extra committee around and it's financial and administrative.

And so um, to me, I think it makes sense to have it go through a committee just like everything else.

Personally, something uh vice chair Cunningham was talking about it, you know, to have it go through an additional process, because these are uh major allegations, right?

If the ethics commission comes out and says, hey, we think there's something here, then I think it is only appropriate for a committee to spend the time to really review in depth what that looks like.

So to me, I think it should continue to go to through committee for those two reasons, and then I'm I was a little lost.

I can't really understand why a committee would be political and we're taking politics out, but somehow a board is not political.

That that makes no sense to me at all.

What I think it is, it's it's just a process, just like other things that come to the board is a process, and we have a committee structure, and that's why this works like that.

So thank you, Chair.

Member Maine.

Okay.

Oh, yeah, I I just wanted to ask Member Peterson to lean forward to the mic.

I couldn't hear like almost anything she said.

Oh okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um member Caspin.

Um thank you.

I and I appreciate all of the comments so far.

I think um the difference with this particular thing is that it doesn't go through committee because it is very different, it's already gone through most of nothing else goes through an independent commission.

So this has gone through an independent commission, which is the substitute for the committee because we didn't want it to be political, and so those recommendations should come straight to the board.

Does that make sense?

Because I mean nothing else goes to an independent commission.

That's that was the you know, and I see what you're saying.

I think when if it goes then when I'm now I'm processing it, then it goes to the board, and then we're on the we're on the floor doing committee work.

That's my concern too.

Uh uh Commissioner Clark and then Chair Hart.

Yeah, I agree.

I mean, and also I don't know why we're doing this.

I don't know, this has been a problem.

I mean, it doesn't seem like it's been a problem.

So I I'm not really sure how we're changing this whole thing because I feel like we haven't been political.

I mean, we have the independence ethics commission.

I've been in finance for many, many years.

We've never the none of this has ever come up.

So I don't understand why we're spending all this time changing this because it's and I do think it should go through a committee, because every like we said, everything goes through a committee, so that way there can be a discussion before it goes to the board.

I just don't know why I we would make any exception to just because the I really believe in our process.

I really believe in the process of discussion at the committee and then going to the board.

So I I just don't know why it's like a problem in I there's no problem here.

I don't know why we would change our entire committee system because there hasn't been an example of so I I can't think of any examples where this hasn't worked.

Really?

I mean, I haven't.

So I don't know why we would change this.

So I would like to, I I I mean, I whatever the committee decides, but I think having the process is important so that we can have discussion and then go to the board, because that's just like I feel like we have a really robust system the way we do it, the way we do our policies, and I really like how it gets discussed at committee, because like you said, Chair, it's like doing committee work on the floor, but we would have to do that because it would just go to the board floor, and I would like to avoid that.

Thank you.

Um Chair Hart.

Thank you.

I was just gonna say, um, you know, or they committee could or the board could consider then having an ethics committee again, if that's what we really want.

I personally I don't think it is, but again, it there's nothing that really goes straight to the board, and while these other entities may not be quote unquote independent, right?

Think about board of health or um SMC, there's mayors and in addition to county board members.

Um HCDC has more things, uh pardon me, more private uh citizens than board members, and HCDC still flows through HCS.

So I I just kind of think I I don't understand the rationale because to say a committee is political and a county board is not.

It's an ethics, these are ethics things, and again, if people want to create a new ethics committee, um that would I I think would make more sense.

But to me, the best thing, the reason why this was brought forward was because it was unnecessary.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Any other go ahead.

Um I I think so.

If if a complaint went to FA, theoretically, FA could squash it, right?

Before it comes to the full county board.

Is that true?

We could, yes.

Yeah, and then the county board has no say.

So the point of the ethics commission again was to take it out of that process so that they can make recommend recommendations.

It makes sense for their recommendations since that is a substitute for the committee process.

It makes sense for their recommendations to come straight to the board because precisely because we don't want it to be like all of our other political processes.

Does that make sense?

It it makes it does, but again, we're going to be bringing all of that to the county board the day of the board meeting to have a discussion about voting on something.

Well, we do that, but it's it's committee work and it's not committee work, it's not supposed to be committee.

It's the ethics commission's work that comes straight to that comes straight to the board.

It shouldn't have a committee in in the middle because it the ethics commission is supposed to substitute for our committee.

Does that make sense?

Right.

But then we wouldn't know what happened.

We'd have to have a whole overview on the county board.

So I mean, it doesn't happen very often, so it would make sense.

Anyone else?

Okay, now do we vote now?

All right.

So um should we take a vote?

Voice vote?

A uh roll call.

Um a roll call if you are for say aye.

If you're against saying no.

Member Casman.

Aye.

Question Chair Clark?

No.

Member Cunningham.

Aye.

Member Peterson?

No.

Chair Roberts?

No.

Member Schlick.

Oh, now what?

And we've got to break.

So I break the vote and I say no.

All right, motion fails.

Um item 8.3, committee action amending section V D1 of the County Board Rules of Order and Origures by inserting language and additional, including the committee chair, in the development and approval of agendas prior to posting and inserting language at the majority decision on the county administrative committee chair and board chair shall be the final decision with respect to any items or document on the agenda where there is a difference of opinion.

I need a motion and a second motion by Caspin, second by Cunningham.

So this one current process is the county administrator works with staff to put together the agenda and works with the chair.

And a couple of years ago, there was language that was placed that stated that if there was a difference of opinion regarding an item that was proposed to go on an agenda or a document that's gonna go on a committee agenda, um that the chair has the authority to make the final decision with respect to that item or document is is it gonna go or not?

And this this change which was brought forth by member casman states that the committee chair shall also be involved in this discussion, and the majority decision of the um the three individuals the county administrator, the committee chair, and the board chair will be will be the deciding authority as to if that item or document is going to be placed on the agenda.

So this came up because from what I understand, so um there have been instances where the county administrator did did their opinion did conflict.

Um it went with the chair, and it seemed like one person could hold something up, could hold business up if they personally didn't want it on there.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but I'm saying that could those could be the optics, and I thought it wasn't great for the the board, um, and also a piece of of business could be held up for months and months, and then may not come before the board at all.

That has definitely happened.

Um but then when I spoke to other members, this has taken you know just a little bit of research.

There have also been instances far in the past when a county administrator could hold up the same thing.

Um so I thought, okay, uh, what if we made it so that it's best two out of three?

And I think it's good to empower the committee chair to be the leader of their committee, but it also helps just in case, like what if the county board chair in the future were out of town and couldn't have that meeting with the county administrator, then that item of business would not be held up because there would still be two because if both people, both the county administrator and the committee chair were to want it on the agenda, then the item can go forward without the county board chair or vice versa, right?

The county board chair and the county administrator, if they both agree, it still goes on the agenda, and then the business item isn't held up.

So I think it makes sense.

It it takes it all.

I think the the problem in retrospect, looking at our our past history, is that it's all been in one person's hands, and I think it's better if it's not just in one person's hands, either administrator or county board chair, that it's the best of three, in which case then it's more um representative of the whole board.

It's it empowers the leadership of the committee chair, and I just think it's it's good for you know, political optics, it's good and healthy all the way around.

So that's maybe question, Chair Hart.

Thank you.

I'm not familiar with a time when um there has been disagreement between the county administrator and the chair for the almost seven years that I've been chair.

So um I take offense to that because I think that's been something that's been uh something that's been tried to have been spun by you, and it's not accurate.

I didn't do it.

Thank you.

So I just want to be clear on that.

Uh Gary and I had talked about it, like, hey, we should probably have something where one takes precedence over the other.

So there was conversation, I believe, at rules committee, in which this was brought up, and it was like, okay, well, it should be the chair.

And as far as a statement is if the chair is out of town, then what should happen?

Then the vice chair is the one who sits with the with the county administrator and says that that agenda looks good to me.

That's what happened when the previous chair was uh absent for some time for medical reasons, and so the vice chair uh of the board stepped up, and that's what would happen again, and that is in our rules, and that I think is also in state statute.

So I don't see any reason to change this.

Thank you.

Vice Chair Clark.

Thank you.

Yeah, I remember when we had this discussion, and this a booze is a big discussion we had a couple years ago.

I think when you when you and Gary were talking about it, and we I remember it was a very vigorous board discussion, and I remember we came up with a discussion was that we we wanted it would be the chair since we elect the chair and the chair is accountable to us.

And I appreciate ma'am because we talked about this, and I think you know there's some ideas here um to look at going forward.

Um, but I think it's a it's a really big dischange.

And I feel like when we set the rules at the beginning of the two years, and I know you I feel like we should keep those two years of rules because this is such a would be such a big change.

I think it people need to would be like a big thing when we set the rules for the two years.

But and also I I don't know if it isn't, I feel like, and I know you know I feel like it's important that we have somebody that we elect that is the final decider, because it's hard to be the final decider.

You know, someone has to be the decider.

And so instead of being the county administrator, I think someone just needs to decide.

So for right now, I think it's working well.

I you know, would look at this in the future, but um, I don't see why we change it from board chair now.

Thank you.

Commissioner Cleanham.

I just want to elaborate on this.

Oh let me put my mic up to the uh here I I never applause to uh Commissioner Caspers, what she's saying, but I know since I've been the chair uh law and the dish.

Oh gee, for how long?

And I'm also the chair of uh uh equity inclusion, and I never ran into anything that I counted board chair, been out of town, I was in charge.

And when the time to come up for to uh uh view the agenda, it was myself ministrator sudden and met Maya, we went through the agenda.

That's what we that's the way I do it on on a lower dish.

I don't know how the rest of them do it that that running running because I don't get involved and they chair.

But sometimes I have a problem with my own committee trying to be the chair.

Uh and I'm running the I'm running the chair.

So that's what I only problem I have that stay in your lane.

If you did if she did chair, she'd respect the chair.

So I don't try to, you know, uh uh talk over I never had no problem that going over my agenda because if I got problems, I'm gonna call and say blah blah blah this.

And I I uh maybe somebody else had a problem that they didn't go over the agenda, but on my I can speak for low end the issue, and I can speak for inclusion as the honest two that I'm the chair.

Oh, I ain't on all these committees and and out and out in left via don't know which way to go.

I'm not on all these uh committees.

See, you get on too many committees, then you're gonna fail somewhere.

So uh I had no never had no problem.

I've been low and judicial for oh god for the longest.

And uh, you know, and once they go over the agenda with me, they ask me, so if they ask me, I said, well, I want this move, they move it.

I had no problem with it.

Never had no problem with either either administrator that that uh since I've been here at this county, and I think I got more years than anybody sitting around this state with the county commissioner Caspin.

Um, I appreciate the discussion here.

Um so in with some of the items that I've heard about, I really didn't know because it was this person and this person and this person talking, and because I didn't know, I thought it would be better for the process and political optics if three people were the deciders rather than one, because then you can't point to one person and say it's their fault.

And we do elect the chair, but the chair appoints the committee chairs, and the committee chairs know the business of that committee the best.

So I it makes sense to me.

I don't think it's a big change, right?

It's just okay, best two out of three.

That in the rare instances where there's a difference of opinion, then the committee chair gets to voice, you know, which which direction they'd like to go, and it's best two out of three.

I don't think that's a complex change.

Um, and it would make it would instill confidence in the process or main make it better.

Um, I think also um, you know, I can just say an item recently that had been on an agenda.

There was some disinformation that came out, nobody listened to the committee work.

We wanted to put it back on the agenda, and we're told that it would not be back allowed back on the agenda unless this, that, or that, because of it.

So I think if we could just make it so that it's the best two out of three, I think it would be better for the board, I think it would be better for the community.

It would be better to take any kind of optics out of it, and then and then there would be no question because either you know, all three or two out of three, but then there's there's a process.

So um, well, I if there's nobody else have anything to say.

I I mean, being chair of this committee, and this is the for you know the only committee I chair on the board uh on the county board.

I the process was I work with Matt.

We the chair and that we all speak together, and then the um agenda is put out.

And I I think I kind of agree with um member Clark that if we were gonna do this, then maybe we could bring it up at the next turn, because I mean it's just we've got one more year to go, and that's it's a huge change to want to have to change it right now.

That's how that's how I feel.

I see where you're coming from because you want it to be just totally transparent and fair, and I I don't ever I don't think this process wasn't unfair for this committee.

So that's how I feel.

I'm gonna go with um Commissioner Peterson.

Oh, and then Member Schlick and then Member Hart, Chair Hart, excuse me.

Oh, you know, you know you can say what you want, but the chairman is the chairman, and she should have the final say on the agenda.

She's the one that runs a meeting.

Simple as that.

Are you saying the chair of the committee or the chair of the board?

The chairman of the board.

Thanks.

I mean, she she should have the final, I believe she should have the final say of the agenda.

She's the one that's running the meeting.

She's the one that's in charge of the meeting.

She means the committee.

She means the committee.

She's talking about the committee.

Committees what should be the committee agenda.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's it's it's um what comes before the board at all.

And so I think the committee chair should be empowered to be part of that decision.

That's all.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Um, I'm gonna go to add um Commissioner Schlick.

Gina.

I got him.

I got him.

But Schlick was on there next.

Member Schlick, you're muted there.

Sorry, my apologies.

It's been a while for a Zoom for me.

Um thanks for the discussion.

I can appreciate Member Kasman's, you know, approach to this, and it, you know, on the surface, I understand where it makes sense to have a couple eyes and want people to seem like this was a consent, you know, that came to this a consensus.

Um, but you know, that I kind of think about it rationally.

If it really ever ran into an issue, the chair, I mean, has tremendous power that we have given them, right?

Through a voting.

Um, you know, the chair could just change the committee chair if they really wanted to.

So again, I don't think that would happen.

I just think that I don't know that this rule really would change much.

And I think we probably should leave certain things in the role of the chair.

And you know, I I don't I don't see a need to change it.

I think I can understand it.

Um, I think yeah, maybe it look could seem like best practice, but it almost seems like a waste to me.

Um to add this another step.

I think it'd probably just be more efficient to leave it as is and let the chair be the deciding, you know, thumbs up, thumbs down on what goes on the agenda.

So I I won't support um this change.

Okay, um, I'm gonna go to Chair Hart, then commission uh Chair Member Hunter.

Member Hunter.

Thank you.

Again, I just want to say I I am again not familiar with any of these instances in which um, and I I'm not I think you're saying you're talking to and I'm speaking to Member Kasman, um, talking to people who say this or say that.

I'm in the room with staff, and 90% of the time with the committee chair, it's a conversation together.

So in the seven years that I have been chair, I'm not sure of what member Casmin, you've been hearing about.

So secondly, to be clear, um thank you for the um feeling that I have tremendous power, or any chair is tremendous power.

Um, if the chair, any chair, how the rules are today wanted to change the committee chair, that needs to go through the full board for approval.

So I just want people to know we do not um that's not something that the chair has the authority to do and make these sort of blanket statements.

If there's conversations about things, um, about hey, should this go on the agenda?

Shouldn't this go on at the agenda?

As chair, and I'm certain previous chairs have always turned to their county administrator to say, what do you guys need?

What do you think is best?

Um that's that's only the right thing to do, I think.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Member Hunter.

Thanks, Chair.

Uh great discussion.

Um, I I think the way we have it set up is really efficient.

Um on how it works.

Um, I don't need I don't see a need to throw another person into it.

Uh at the at the end of the day, the structure's the structure.

You have a chairman of each committee, and you have a chairman of the board, and I think that we run pretty well with that.

And I certainly wouldn't want to diminish any responsibility of the vice chair, should the chair be gone.

And I think that that would probably lend to some of that diminishment.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Any other questions, comments?

See anything.

All right, we'll take a vote.

Um do you want to we'll just do a roll call vote?

Sure.

Okay.

Um, if you're in favor of this, say aye.

I will call it.

No, we're doing what we're doing.

Roll call.

Sorry.

So it's just if we're in favor, we'd say all in favor and I went to audit.

I'm sorry.

Chair by it, say yes, and not say no.

Roll call.

Member Casmin?

Aye.

Vice Chair Clark?

No.

Member Cunningham.

I member Peterson.

No.

Chair Roberts?

No.

Member Schleck.

No.

All right.

Moving on to item 8.4, committee action amending section V1D.4.b of the county board rules of order and operation procedures by inserting additional language at the beginning of the paragraph.

At the meeting of the public body, the member will be notified of the request and reason for the member to attend electronically.

Do you want to just do on a motion?

Oh, I'm sorry, we need a motion.

Motion by Cunningham, second by Peterson.

Sure.

This this was um this is in the section related to electronic attendance, and there is qualifying reasons in which members are allowed to attend electronically at board meetings uh that are listed in our rules.

And we have a process, uh an operational process that we use in which the chair reads a script at the beginning.

I think everybody has seen that reads the script in the beginning of the meeting stating that we receive notice that this individual meets one of the qualifying reasons.

This change is stating that the reason should be stated at the meeting.

And member main had put this forward.

I talked to Member Maine yesterday, and and I believe she's on, and I stated one one option in lieu of changing the rules is that we can just change operationally what we're doing and include that in the script that we give the chairs every day.

Staff doesn't have an issue with doing that.

Um, but I'll I'll let Member Maine speak if she'd like.

Thank you.

Member Maine, do you have do you want to speak to this?

Yes, thank you.

Um, and thank you.

Uh Matt Myers and I did talk about this yesterday, gave me a chance to think about it.

But I think it really makes sense.

Um I think it should be in the rules because then there is clarity, and then um future boards uh can look at it.

You know, we do this at the forest reserve.

I think there had been a conversation at one point as to how many times somebody could miss for um work reasons, and that wasn't successful, but um I I think um, you know, I just think that we should know why somebody's missing because they're coming in remotely.

It's not that they're missing, it's that they're attending remotely for a different reason.

And I I do think there are some committees at different times where it has um it has become a burden to the other people on the committee, um, because uh some people are remote a lot, and they can only be remote because other people are present at the meeting.

So I want it in the rules.

Okay, so then we'll vote.

Do we need to vote then?

We need discussion.

Anyone have any questions?

Commissioner Caspin.

I'll just say I don't we do it at if we do it at the forest reserves, it makes sense to match.

And I I think it's just a little more transparent.

So I'm I'm good.

Chair Hart.

Thank you.

Yeah, and I spoke with Member Maine about this and appreciate that coming forward, same thing.

We do it at the Forest Preserve.

And just again to put in a little plug to make sure you're notifying the chair of the board so that I have notice to make sure that I can be here in case we need me for quorum.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

Can we do a voice vote on this one?

All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries.

Item eight point.

Let me see, where is that?

8.5.

Committee action attending section seven of the county board rules of order and operational procedures by inserting a new section 7.

County participation in association providing the FA committee to the opportunity to determine which association is included in the budget with final action by the county board.

And I need a motion motion by Caspin, second by Peter.

I'm sorry.

Clark.

Sure.

So I know I said that these were all board member requests, but this was one that was actually a staff request, um, and it was a little more detailed, which is why it didn't go into the administrative section at the at the bottom of the agenda.

So this one every year we have discussions at the administrative level as it relates to what associations the county's involved in at as Lake County as an organization, and um we never really talk about it.

Staff comes and talks about the discussions I've had with lobbyists or executive directors of these organizations, but we don't talk about which ones were associated with or not associated with or associated with and don't really get anything out of anymore.

Um so this is an opportunity for the administrator to come forward during the budget hearings and and and provide a summary of the associations that we're involved in and um what the costs are, what we're paying to these organizations, and then what benefits we're seeing or not, with recommendations as to which maybe which ones we should or should not be involved in, and let the board make that decision.

Um member martini, six, seven years ago had had requested we be a member of the Illinois Association of County Board members, and we have been, and I've gotten a lot of benefits out of it, but we haven't talked about the fact that we're we're paying for that organization every year, um, and we'd like that opportunity to do that.

I think that's a great idea.

Anyone have any comments or questions?

Okay.

So we'll do a voice voice voice vote.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed motion carries.

Uh item 8.6, committee action attending section 8D.

Of the county board rules of order of operation procedure by inserting inserting training and replacing approved by county board chair with county administrator.

I need a motion, motion by Clark, second by Caspin.

You want to discuss that?

Yep.

So this one under this is for board member travel and events fees.

Um, there are specific organizations in which uh board members are authorized to attend conferences or um other travel-related reasons that we list, and those are for um out-of-area events or local events, and we list these um uh approved government training organizations that are in here.

There is a section for other, and it had previously said that other travel and events related to county business and approved by the county board chair, and member Kasman has put forth that um we stated training as well.

I think it always included training, but an assumed training, but it was clarity and that it's approved by the county administrator in lieu of the county board chair.

Okay.

Comments there have been a couple of instances where members wanted to take part in a training.

Um they've been refused um the ability to do that.

And uh I was one of those members.

Um I had looked at this training, I I researched it, I um spoke with staff to see if it would be um beneficial to the county board.

It was one on housing, um, if it would be beneficial to the county if I were to go and attend this training.

Um they said yes, and I and I and I made sure I mentioned that.

Um when it was denied, I asked for okay.

Is there a rubric by which we um make these decisions?

What is it based on?

I was told that we have staff for this.

But the we have staff for everything.

So it doesn't make sense because I would apply to any training that we had.

The tuition was expensive, but it wasn't as long as something like NACO.

And I couldn't go to either NACO conference just because of timing.

But overall, I would have spent less than someone who's there for the full NACO conference.

I would have come out with a certificate.

I offered to make a presentation to the board on what I've learned.

Because we have this housing initiative coming forward.

I had I I asked staff would it be helpful to me?

And they said absolutely it would be it would be really beneficial.

And even and then I I said, okay, could the county just pay for the tuition?

And I would pay for airfare meals and um and lodging, and was still told no, even though that would be definitely far less than a NACO conference.

I would get more from it, arguably, and um staff said that it would be a good idea.

I just think at a certain point, um, and it was through Harvard, so it wasn't like a fly by night, you know.

I'm I'm you know, going to Hawaii to like, you know, have it actually have a vacation.

It was a real learning experience.

It was two days, and it made no I just don't understand why certain things, there's no criteria, there's no rubric.

I think if if like in other committees where we make decisions like this, funding decisions, if there were a rubric where it's like, okay, objectively, is this a good institution?

Is it um training that's per that pertains to county board work?

It is it, and then I don't I just don't think we want to stifle county board members' ability to learn things that really might enrich discussions and help bring uh county initiatives forward.

Um, but I'm not the only member um who's put things forward and one of them I think was a NACO, actually a NACO, the NACO leadership thing.

So I think I think it's really important that we not stifle learning opportunities and um opportunities for board members to deepen their knowledge so that we can be better at our jobs.

All right, thank you.

Questions?

Can you hear anything?

Yeah, look with commissioner heart, Clark.

I don't know my hand up but it's I'm sorry, I didn't I'm I'm watching through here.

I'm sorry.

If you should like spice your own stuff, go ahead.

No, you go ahead.

Go ahead.

Oh my gosh.

You go.

Okay, I will go.

And then I don't vital with you.

Well, I think as the teacher in me, I really want to think we could encourage people to go for trainings and things like that.

I mean, you I know I've learned a lot at NACO, but there's other things we can go to too.

And I and you know, looking at this, I do think I mean I think it would be good to encourage people to go learn the things we learn and bring back really help our constituents.

Things though I think it's important is whatever it would be, obviously we'd have to put on our disclosure.

So I feel like if people are right saying this is how much money it costs, and I think it needs to cost less than NACO would cost, like it can't be anything.

So, but so I don't know if we can put parameters better around it, but I do think encouraging people to take advantage of these kind of trainings, but limiting it though, I mean, here it says three, does that mean you can go to three different things, or is it like this would just be once you could go to one training or conference a year?

So I would want to maybe think about if we could, you know, would it just be once a year, maybe to start to try it, you know, to say once a year it could be this training or conference thing.

Also, it would have to be with the county business, it would have to be clearly put on our expenses, which I believe it would have to anyway, so people could see exactly the money that was spent and what we did with the money.

But I also don't think it should include uh educational programs.

I know some of the uh leave like like to go to a like to get a certificate program, and that's different to me.

Going to get like if you're gonna go get a degree or you're gonna get a certificate program, the county degree.

I was no, yeah, but but excuse me, I'm speaking, so um, but like a like a whole entire leadership academy, that's a lot of expense, and that is an actual like degree you could put on your resume.

And I don't think the county should be paying for that.

That that is a personal thing.

So I don't know.

To me, I would want to limit it to you know, conf like a conference, someplace where we could go and learn about county things, and then the approval.

I do, I mean, I think there should be like if you meet the parameters, you can go.

And so I don't know how we do that.

Is the parameters, you know, and but I think really we're the county board members.

If we think this is important and it meets it's the county, it meets that it we feel that you know we've supporting why it'll help us in our jobs.

I don't know.

I think there should be some leeway given to county board members to set to say this is my conference.

But for me, I would I think to start at least I'd want to limit it to once a year, and then approved by the county board um administrator.

I don't know if if uh our county board administrator wants to do that.

I mean, it is it is a difficult job, it might be easier just for me to say you just get to do it as long as it meets these certain ramps, these certain uh different rules.

But it is the teacher and me.

I I do think I think about all things I've learned going to things, and um, so I do think maybe making it a little more broad, but but specific would be good.

Thank you.

Uh Commissioner Cunningham.

Oh, thank you.

Oh no, with NACO.

I uh NACO got F the IU.

All the training you you'll get you when you go in, you'll get this damn mess, you'll certificate at the end of NACO.

You can get they got all kind of training there, but you get to go to those these training.

They got everything.

I'm a member of the I'm one of the memo of national associate of black county offices.

I do a lot on uh uh Zoom with them, and uh uh so but what I'm trying to say to with about NACO, I've been going to NACO 22 years, and the last three times I went, I ran into a problem with them paying, taking my own personal credit card, using this did a charge in the county, and I just got my money back last month.

Uh uh.

So I'm asking, and I'm gonna make a motion that we bring the P CAS back.

Well, we're not there.

We're we're not there yet.

No, no, no.

Thank you.

Oh, yeah, that's yeah, we're not there yet.

We're just talking about getting additional education.

You get plenty of it at NACO because I do myself I go to these uh education because I want to represent my district right, right?

And that's why I go to them, and I got my certificate, they mail it to you.

Got it.

And you can go and get it from housing, uh, whatever you want to take.

Thank you.

Um thank you, Mary.

Uh sorry, Commissioner Cunningham.

Uh we've got Chair Hart, then come member Maine, Member Schlick and Member Frank.

Thank you.

Um so I just want to be clear, and this is not my decision, I think it's the board's decision.

Um, these dollars for training and education and NACO and all of these things, it's not a stipend.

It's not like, hey, you've got every board member has $8,000 or $10,000 or $12,000 to spend, right?

We provide the training and these sessions at NACO because the value that it brings.

So the instance that I remember Kasman is I think really referred to it was this Harvard training was really around housing.

And NACO, we know does so much about housing that to go to something else, even if it is less expensive than NACO.

To me, when I looked at it carefully, I thought this is not a good use of taxpayer money because that is what it is.

If you want to learn about something, member Kasmin serves on the board of PADS.

Um, and I would think that if it was important for for pads to have their board members attend these, then pads would figure out a way to help cover that cost, even though of course it's you know, they are a nonprofit.

These are taxpayer dollars.

I and when I say that we have staff to do this work, what I mean is, and that is true, that's what I had said to member Kasman when I denied it.

Um we have counties across the country that don't have they're not big counties like us, they don't have that kind of in-house expertise.

And so maybe that might make sense if they can't go to a NACO event or a municipal event or something like that, that that might make sense.

But in our case, um it doesn't.

And as far as staff said it would be a good idea, um, I really think it should be careful for all board members to not put words in staff's mouths when they're not here.

It's always a good idea for board members and everybody to be educated on things.

Should that particular education occur at taxpayer expense or out of pocket?

That would be a question I would ask.

And I would say if it's important enough, then that should be out of pocket.

Replacing approved by county board chair with county administrator.

Personally, I do not like the idea of putting our county administrator in a difficult position to have to tell a county board member, no, I don't think that's a good use of county board funds or county, pardon me, county funds slash taxpayer funds.

Somebody's got to decide.

And I think it's appropriate whether I am the chair or somebody else before it was Aaron Lawler, he made the decisions.

So I I just don't think it's appropriate to put talk about politics to put the county administrator in a position of having to say no to a county board member to something they so passionately want to attend and don't want to pay for out of pocket.

Um I think is not fair to our county administrator.

So thank you.

Thank you.

I'm gonna I've got Commissioner Main and Commissioner.

Okay, thanks.

Um it is uh some of my comments it's it is a little hard, harder to follow remotely.

Um it seems to me that if the content of the material is germane to county business, and um I I don't know why you'd have to say you would limit the number.

Um if um and that it would have to be less than NACO.

I think member Casbin's point that um somebody might not be able to go at the time of NACO.

I haven't gone to NACO for many years.

I did go a couple times um and found it useful, but um, you know, depending on when those meetings are, it's it's not it doesn't work for everybody's schedule.

So um if it's not um excessive, I understand what people are talking about with um uh certificate or leadership or something like that.

I can agree that that might not um be appropriate, but anything we do on the county, people are putting on their resumes, you know.

You can go look at anybody's resume and they'll say, I was chair of this committee, I served on this committee.

So um all those things are um are related to that.

So um I think if it fits the work of what's happening with the county, that it should be allowed for someone to go.

Thank you.

Um, member Frank.

Thank you, Chair.

Can you hear me okay?

Yes.

Thank you, Chair.

Um my request would be that there's a language that's being added that's permissive in terms of additional training and or travel.

That there's a caveat in there that it is indicates that it's as permitted by the budget.

Um, you know, uh the chair indicated, hey, these aren't stipends.

We don't want to be in a situation where our rules are in conflict with our budget.

Well, the rules say, hey, you can you can travel, you can attend conferences, but we only budgeted X amount, and now there's 19 people requesting to go to a conference that's uh you know that exceeds what's in the budget.

And budgets are often reflections of the moment in time and the county's finances.

And um, I just think we have to make sure that it aligns with the the budget in any given year.

So I'm supportive of investing in education and training.

I think that's how we all learn and grow, but it's gotta be it in correlation with what's in the budget, not just an open-ended uh expense.

Thank you.

Um member Schlick.

Thanks, Sharon.

Member Frank might have stole some of my thunder there.

I was kind of in the same boat that I thought.

I think having it fall on the county administrator is not the worst thing in the world because they are the albeit expert of budgets and uh county business that if a board member was to bring something to the administrator, they could say, Hey, it checks the box that it is a something we're doing.

It's this is a this is germane, the county business's member main said, and also the financial component to it.

We don't have a stipend, you know, or it's not make it a stipend.

It's hey, this training is gonna put an unnecessary burden on the budget.

We can't afford that.

Um, you know, and maybe you can negotiate it from there.

And I I also wouldn't be opposed if there was some type of like, you know, I in my world, we we have it in a collective bargaining agreement of a tier system that says, hey, if this is a tier three class, you know, bottom of the barrel, it's a class that's benefiting you and and the county business.

Um, you know, the county will pay for the class, but not um not any travel accommodation.

So I that would get a little complicated.

I don't want to do that on this board floor.

It's maybe something that staff can work on, you know, if they have any downtime, which I know is but I I think falling on the county administrator to to member Frank's point to say, hey, we have this in the budget, we can do it.

You know, it is gonna go on our reports, like member uh Clark said it's you know it's gonna be our disclosures.

I don't think it's a bad thing, and it's not anything against the county board chair or anything like that.

I think she's thinking the county board, the county administrator would be a great place to kind of find a bet this thing and give a board member a thumbs up or a thumbs down.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Um member Clark.

Um Casmin, excuse me, thanks.

I appreciate all the discussion.

Um I I did just to um assuage any concerns about what I'm saying that administrators said.

I asked the administrator in question if it was okay for me to say that they that they um recommended it or not recommended it, but said it would be beneficial.

We do have this housing lake um initiative going on right now.

The um as for my um involvement on the pads board, this this housing um sort of uh I don't know if you'd call it whatever it is, learning opportunity, um, didn't have anything to do with unhoused people.

It it had everything to do with um how you promote housing, how you promote um affordable housing, that kind of thing, and learning about the process of um creating housing in an area, and that is exactly what we're doing.

It's exactly germane to the housing lake um uh uh initiative.

Um I did ask um administrator Sutton because I didn't want her to be in a position in this, if it would if she would be comfortable being in that role, she said yes.

Um it would be fine.

Um another thing is yes, I'm totally comfortable with saying subject to budget, although I mean I think it's in the budget already that there's a certain amount allocated.

So um, as we're creating the budget, we could create like a limit and just say, okay, that's that's the limit.

Um I think um I think starting at once per year is is absolutely fine.

Um I think just to be conservative and to make sure we stay within those budgetary restrictions.

Um, as member Clark said, it is reported on the website.

Um, I think you know, barring that if we could just have an objective rubrics that because I kept asking for more explanation, so one person doesn't think, but the whole but the staffs thought it was germane.

I think the staff knows more about what would be beneficial.

And and per um member Schlick's comment, um Patrice is the head of the staff.

So she could confer with staff and say, is this something that would be germane?

Would it be helpful?

And then she could approve or not.

Or I mean, I'm totally fine with um member Clark's idea of just saying you can go to one by right, provided it checks these boxes.

Either one, um, it just it should make sense.

Um, it should be consistent because I mean, I think you could say anything that would happen at Harvard would be as good as something that happened at NACO, right?

So I I think you know, if it makes sense, if it if it re meet reaches certain criteria, then staff agrees that it would be beneficial to the county, then let the person go.

Don't inhibit them from learning things that could be helpful to an initiative, or um, I think maybe aligning with the strategic plan would also be really important.

And housing is definitely a critical part of our strategic plan.

Um so it that those are the understood.

Commissioner Clark, member Clark.

Um I was gonna make it's kind of hard to see when I'm talking.

So I'm sorry, I got you.

I was gonna make an amendment.

Mary, I'm sorry, I'll gotcha.

To add the language limited to one time per year and as the budget allows.

So that is my motion to make an amendment.

So that would be at the end of it would read as the at the end of the this, it would be add limited to one time per year and as the budget allows.

That's my motion to mend it.

So but commissioner uh a member Cunningham has one more question.

Sure.

But you made a motion, so we have to why you second.

We need a second second second.

Okay.

So now we can have a discussion about just that amendment only.

Okay.

So can I speak?

But it has to be the to the motion.

About the to the motion.

Point of order.

I have already had my hand up before she made the motion.

Right.

And may I just say to Vice Chair Cunningham's point.

But we're not have her down.

No, I was the chair.

I am not who she is.

I'm not sure.

No, you didn't see me.

Okay, thank you.

So what is the verdict?

I would like to can we hold your motion because go ahead.

Thank you.

Okay.

Because when I, you know, I know you can't see everybody, you know, because you'll be talking before she even made the motion.

I had my hand up for a long time.

Thank you.

I'm sorry.

I didn't see you.

No, I just want to say this.

Um I'm listening to everybody talking about training.

Go to NACO.

I serve on economic development workforce board.

They got every training that is either, you know, no due respect to Cas because she's trying to, you know, she on the board that she's trying to uh you know get the learning of it.

But NACO got the same thing.

They send somebody from the from housing different places to speak to us about the same stuff she's talking about.

I have had it at NACO.

So uh uh they got the same thing.

If if uh we when we go to NACO, when I go to NACO, I I I try to learn something to represent my district better.

I'm very well uh uh a housing person, been a housing person for years.

And I know housing better than anybody because I lived it.

Right.

Ain't nobody around this table live what I lived.

So uh uh I uh I I have no uh objection to she on a nutty board won't the county had nothing to do with homelessness.

No, no, no, honey.

I I know what you're saying, I know what you're saying.

Eyes don't mean nothing to me.

The my contacts, but anyway.

If you go to NACO, you can get anything you want to learn, anything because they got everything there for you to learn, not to go there and and make trouble.

You go there to learn to bring something back to how to represent your district.

I serve on community action partnership.

You know, I'm just saying I'm not gonna come and ask the county to pay for not knocking you because I appreciate what you're doing.

It wasn't about homelessness, it was about housing.

We have a housing initiative in the Congress.

You can call it I I'm not listening at you telling me because I don't need you to tell me.

She's speaking right now.

Sorry, I was out of that's disrespect.

Thank you.

See, that's going back to the 40s.

You were you're on you've got the floor.

Go ahead.

Yeah.

So don't don't don't don't, you know.

I have nothing to do with what you're trying to do.

I serve on walk housing community action partnership board.

But let me finish.

I'm not gonna come here and ask.

They have, but they sent us when we need to go for training.

Community action partnership, send our traveler.

I I can't come and ask the county because this ain't county business.

To me, it ain't, it might be to some other people, but it's not.

And I'm not a favorite tears and person.

I'm not a favorite tearsome person.

You know, I'm for the county, and I I'm for my district.

I know all about pads, been there before interview was there about pads, and I know what it all about.

Um I went to school, and I didn't go under the school.

I went in and come out with an empty head, come out with a full head.

So uh I don't need nobody to tell me something I already know.

So uh uh, I don't knock what she's trying to do.

If the county wanna pay it, let them pay it.

But let's do it for everybody, not just one person.

Don't let if we're gonna do this, let's do it for everybody.

And I think that's what the motion that's no little eyes trying to say, and I don't need nobody to tell me nothing because I already know what NACO had learned me.

So y'all need to get it together.

Well, um, I I believe what we're trying to discuss here is if you can't go to NACO, you want to have an option to take another to go to another um course and just get approval from the administration instead of the chair.

That's what we are giving.

That's what this um so hang hang on.

know when NACO had like me so y'all need to get it together well um I I believe what we're trying to discuss here is if you can't go to NACO you want to have an option to take another to go to another um course and just get approval from the administration instead of the chair that's what we that's what this um so hang hang on I've got um we still have this motion on the floor so she withdrew it so she would have to withdraw did you withdraw I'll just put to it whenever you want me to okay so um at the end chair before I go to you of course um member altenberg has had her hand up okay my question was clarity and Jen and Member Clark's motion and she's going to redo that when we get okay to this when she redoes it I had a I had a question or two about the the impetus of it okay thank you chair Hart thank you um so I and I appreciate member Frank's uh suggestion we have a six hundred and some odd million dollar budget you know it so we'll just have to be mindful if this goes through excuse me how much money we want to make sure there's 19 board members um how much money we want to set aside I also just want to be clear think about everything that the county does and things that come before the county think about everything that is we don't do a lot in education but you know we have an ROE that budget comes through comes through the county so if we you know say look I'd really like to go to this thing about whatever it is about education Patrice I would really like for you know to go to this and here's all the reasons why and I really hope you'll say yes and blah blah blah and Patrice is the county administrator I just I I just do not like putting our county administrator I mean if it wants to come to FNA even and because member casman does not want it to be a decision by the county board chair I would be more open to that than I would be to have it be county staff having to say to a board member you know and maybe they wouldn't say this maybe everything that the county any county board member brings forward is a great idea but on the off chance that it isn't I I do not like our county administrator who works for the board to be in the position of having to say no to a board member so I I am strongly opposed to that particular change.

Thanks thank you okay I mean I I think you you get one more time I think you have by rules you get three so I'm gonna let you speak and then we'll we'll move on.

Thanks I just want to make it absolutely crystal clear again the training had nothing to do with pads the training had to do with our housing lake initiative in the county it had nothing to do with unhoused people the training was about housing and housing development um the second thing was I did again speak with administrator Sutton she was totally comfortable with it so all right thank you yes thank you I just want to clear up some it need to go in the in the rules but when someone every time I speak somebody have to interfere but when somebody else speaks nobody interfered we need to check that before asking we need to respect each other not interrupt each other and that's the I don't interrupt nobody when they understand I don't care about that at all and I and I stop that apologize for me chair I mean Commissioner Cunningham I apologize because I ain't no little child no and sometimes we get heated grown lady and I'm an older lady and I'm not finna go back to the 30s and the 40s they're telling me what to do thank you I'm though okay thank you all right I don't like that I understand and that's why control I you know it's kind of hard we do get out of control here sometimes we get heated and and we need to learn to respect each other.

So thank you.

Now member Clark don't say nobody I'd like to make a motion to amend it to include the language limited to one time per year and as the budget allows because I do think we can see how this goes for a year.

I mean it's already budgeted in that we can go three times so we're not adding any we're not adding more training to me like if people want to go to a conference once a year let's just see how it goes for a year but I do think we should limit it because it says in our rules you can go three times and I think to training and that's too much.

Oh can I call it can we say calendar year yeah let's say that one time per calendar year yeah let's say calendar year that's better.

Can I can I ask something to that but I think I have to do a second and then we can discuss motion okay can you second or second okay now okay but my I just need clarification because there's two parts to this it's who's going to approve it the chair or the county administrator.

Yep I'm just adding this language to the to the the current one yep okay fiscal year was probably the right word fiscal year do you want fiscal year amendment to say fiscal we'll just rewind it will say limited to one time per fiscal year well and and as the budget allows second I I drafted this sentence real quick we can take a look at so is it is it going to the county administrator the way this is so nothing's changed other than the added statement this is allowed once per oh geez I gotta say fiscal year fiscal year and as budget allows is what is on the floor right now that sentence so it's just that sentence correct that's the discussion is should the sentence be included okay uh member aldenberg has needs clarification on this so do I okay my question is so Jen is saying a member clerk is saying that you get to go to a training once a year is that aside from NACO yes okay so we want to make rules in our rules you already can it's there's three it says you can go to NACO twice and then other things so it doesn't add any additional it just clarifies uh the like this limits my sentence does okay so it just says you can besides Nickel you can go to one more training a year yeah that's what you want to change it to okay all right I just want to understand that okay thank you member peterson I I mean I'd like us to just to continue to discuss whether it's gonna go to the FNA committee or to the county administrator because I would I would be much more in favor of going to the F and A committee.

Point of order there's a motion on the floor and we're discussing that motion um we what thank you so uh for this uh this is just about the amendment and I would be fine with the amendment but keeping the amendment with the county administrator I think doesn't um it's it's really not the if you will what was initially brought so what could happen perhaps is if people don't want it excuse me I'm saying point of information it was the county administrator that is in the original I I understand thank you so it says county administrator what I'm was saying before and it's a point of information is actually not to be utilized in that way so you can look it up in Robert's rules and that can be discussed later so this is it what I'm saying is could happen because I could be in favor of this part but I wouldn't be in favor of it with the inclusion of the county administrator that's really my point because um because of essentially what member peterson was talking about.

Thank you.

So we need to vote on just the amendment on the amendment the way it is the way it is with the county administrator being the approval point no no we're just voting on the amendment the one time per year.

We haven't oh god just the amendment what we're voting on right now is if this sentence should be included or not which says oh right this is allowed once per fiscal year and as budget allows and then we'll go back to the original motion where we can have the discussion about the county administrator thank you all right all in favor okay what did vote what did vote is you're voting for that explain it to me because I didn't go no vote and feel great he just okay you want to repeat it again thank you so all you're voting for is is should that sentence be added or not this is allowed once per fiscal year and as budget allows that's the only vote right now okay you have any more do you're good I'm good okay all in favor aye any opposed no motion carries now we can go back and amend it if need be to whether the chair should approve it or the uh county administrative so we'd have to make a motion to amend it oh I'm sorry yep if you don't want the county administrator to have the last word I'll make a motion to amend it second what's what is what's your motion the motion to amend it did it go to the FNA committee and not the county administrator or county board chair yeah I'm asking okay okay what map it's the what it what's your motion is I'm making a motion that instead of having it be approved by the county chair county board chair or administrator that it goes to FNA to approve for approval so if I wanted to go to if I wanted to go to an additional it would go to F and A and not to the chair or got on the stand all there why would it go to F and A well we're

I'm making a motion that instead of having it be approved by the county chair, county board chair or administrator.

That it goes to FNA.

To approve.

For approval.

So if I wanted to go to if I wanted to go to an additional.

It would go to FNA and not to the chair or got on the stand all there.

Okay.

Why would it go to FA?

Well, we're she's because we're not some people are not comfortable with having it go to the county administrator where the that's what the motion is that it would be approved by the county administrator at this point.

So you're taking it out of the county administrator administrative.

County administrator and putting into FA.

I gotcha.

And it goes to what the different in that go on to FNA and going to the county administrator.

She is the administrator.

She is the chair.

What is the difference in taking out taking it out of the hand?

Because in the committee, the FA committee would approve whether you could go or not, not the county chair or the county administrator.

Exactly.

And we got the same talent.

Right.

No, I'm not voted.

So there is a there is a motion on the floor.

So it's a good idea.

Is there a second?

There's a motion on the floor.

Is there a second?

Motion fails.

Oh, Chair.

Thank you.

Um, I appreciate this conversation.

So again, I would be okay with this is allowed once per fiscal year and as budget allows.

Um, but have to reiterate my concern about county administrator.

So I don't have the authority to put forward uh an amendment, but since the last amendment failed, I would request that a member of this committee consider changing it to an approved by the county board chair, period.

This is allowed once per fiscal year and as budget allows.

So this committee has already decided you don't want it to be decided by FA.

Um I'd like to call the question.

Excuse me, I am talking.

And I'd like to I'm talking.

I'm speaking to the point of courtesy, member Casbin.

So to keep it as county board chair, uh again, having again I keep hearing like yes, every she's okay with it.

County administrators okay with it.

I personally have not heard the county administrator clamoring to have this authority.

And you can imagine that the county administrator and I speak quite frequently.

So I would just request, and maybe nobody wants to do it, and that's fine, and you want to keep it and have it whatever, but that would be my request is have it stay with the county board chair.

Uh my my concern would be that we are putting another burden on the county administration.

We I I I think that um I think I will make that motion to have it go back to the chair because I the more I the and I respect you, I would, but I just feel can you make the motion?

I don't know.

Can I make I can make the motion because I with budgets coming up and it's you know, our the chair, we have the chair for a reason.

I think the chair will be fair as long as it's fits into our budgets.

Um I just don't think I want to have this burden on our county administrator.

I'll second it.

Question on the motion, yes.

We always I've been here 23 years.

We always had the chair approving.

That's what my motion is.

And that's what my motion is.

Yeah, I know how it works.

The newcomers don't, because they wasn't here when the true rules was being made.

We always had when Susan was here, Aaron was here, uh it it it just we had good chairs.

The motion that's on the floor now is having the chair, the chair and not the county administrator I know what it is.

I'm just making sure everybody else knows that's all.

I know what it is.

Okay, I'm just clarifying it.

I've been through this I'm just clarifying it.

So we keep changing it.

So the motion is to we have we have a motion and a second.

All in favor.

Whoops, I'm sorry.

Uh member Frank.

Thanks, Chair.

I I just want to say there have been issues in the past, and this board went through a lot when there was a I'll just say a conflict of interest between the administrator approving expenses, previous administrator, previous board chair.

Previous administrator, previous board chair.

And we changed a lot of our rules and procedures in response to the issues that arose from that.

And there can be and could be an inherent conflict in putting this approval just with the administrator.

And I I think that the point of it should be either FNA or the board chair.

It should be a a board authority, not the administrator.

That's all.

So I'm supportive of either approach, whatever the committee wants to do.

Thank you.

Anyway, I I um thank you for bringing that up.

I would like to just keep my motion and member Caspin.

So if that is the motion, um I would like to amend it to say subject to an objective rubric that includes does staff agree that we be beneficial to the county.

Is it a reputable institution?

Is it germane to county business?

And it already says is it within budget?

Because when I asked for a rationale and asked for clarification on what the rubric is, how we make these decisions, I was not given that.

I I was given an opinion and that clashed with what two administrators were saying to me.

So if we could make it objective and not one person's opinions on whatever, I think that would be that would instill more faith in the process and would make it more fair.

I know that members in the past in the current board have gone to conferences on police operations, even though we have no control over police operations.

We people have gone to, and it just seems to depend on who's the person who's asking rather than objective criteria.

So if we could say objectively, like come up with those objective criteria, then I would be comfortable with that.

I'd be willing to add that too.

So is that an amendment to the amendment?

The amendment, correct.

Is there a second?

We need a second.

Second, second.

No, well, yeah, you made the amendment.

I'll second it.

So um I'm I will need help uh with this one a little bit.

So um this did you have a I'm sorry, what are Robert's rules here?

I see what's that case.

Can she can I second my mo I can't second my motion my amended motion?

The original motion.

Yeah, yeah, second.

Doesn't matter.

That's okay.

No, I think on to your amendment.

She's adding it on to my amendments.

No, it's oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, right?

Yeah.

Oh, she keep messing it up.

Okay.

Yes, it's it's right.

It's fine.

Okay.

Member Clark wanted to comment.

Speaking on this amendment.

Amended amendment.

I don't know why we're doing that.

Only because they still get the person just gets to decide.

There's no like proof that you followed those things.

Like I I just think adding them doesn't change anything.

So I think it's I'm not for this amendment only because it doesn't change anything.

Like the one person has to decide.

And if you're like, okay, well, it follows all that, and they're like, no, it doesn't.

It doesn't matter.

So I don't know why we would have this amendment.

It's not like you can appeal.

I mean, so I don't I don't know why we would add.

I think it's good to say it's county board business, like it does, but like I don't know if there you you can have objective criteria, but it doesn't matter because they can just say no.

So I am not for it just because I don't think it would change anything.

So I'm not for the amendment to the amendment, only because I just don't think it would change anything.

But if it makes everyone else feel better, that is fine.

Okay, we can I can I just can somebody help me just finish that sentence there.

This approval is subject to an objective rubric needs to be at a respectable institution.

What were the what was the remainder?

Do you have to leave?

No, I'm with the bathroom.

Okay.

Um that's that's what I have.

That's that's what I had.

This is the um this is the amendment to the amendment was the addition of this sentence.

This approval is subject to an objective rubric and needs to be at a respectable institution.

Okay, we need a vote.

On the amount of okay, and we could we we can spend hours on this.

Yeah, this is you know not all of um I can can you then will this wrap it up then?

Well the rules allow for two okay for periods of yeah.

Um so I guess what I'm seeking is some kind of objectivity to it because it there are none right now.

It's just based on, yeah, I think you can go, no, I think you can't, and there's not any rationale that has to be given.

Um I think if a board member, if the county administrator agrees that you know that it is germane to county business, the county administrator believes it to be uh maybe that maybe the county administrator decides whether those criteria are met.

Um that is this my experience has been it it appears to be at least to me political.

It appears to be I I don't know, it it just it it makes no sense right now.

So if we could put in something that's objective, so either that or have it, you know, the the administration has agreed that it's germane to county business.

The administration has agreed that it's a respectable institution.

I I don't know.

It it's well I'm trying to just tries to put something objective in there so that we have a rationale for it.

That's all okay.

Uh commission uh member Hewitt has a comment.

Um quick comment who's to decide objective and reputable, right?

I can argue with anybody here whether I agree with that statement or not.

Everybody has their own opinion, so I think that's useful uh just a waste of time and words.

And that's what member Clark has to say.

So um can we call for the question?

Yep.

Let's just vote whether we'll go with this.

So the this vote is just should that sentence be included or not?

Correct.

So we want to uh voy uh let's go do it.

Um call the call the vote roll call.

Okay, no.

This is for the amendment yes, whether we want it to have a objective rubric or not this is just for that sentence, Mary.

But a one sentence just that one sentence but a county board sheet.

No, not that's not this one yet.

That'll be next.

Just whether you want a rubric, right?

And an objective and and member Clark's point and member Hewitt's point is how do we know their objective?

So they can go once per year.

This is what this sentence is saying.

No, no, the that one's already in there.

This is about all you're voting right now.

Is should we include this sentence?

This approval is subject to an objective rubric and needs to be at a respectable institution.

That's all this vote is.

This one right now.

Okay, roll call.

Member Cassman, aye.

No.

Member Cunningham?

No.

Member Peterson?

No.

Chair Roberts?

No.

Member Schlick.

Uh Member Schlick did notify me he had to leave.

Okay.

Sorry.

Didn't know how to leave.

Okay.

Okay, so that failed.

So now we're back to it.

We're back to county board chair.

The county board chair.

We need um a roll call on whether it goes to the county board chair.

So uh member Casman.

No.

Question Clark.

No.

Member Cunningham.

Aye.

Member Peterson.

Aye.

Chair Roberts.

Aye.

Three S two no.

So now we're at now we're back out to the original motion, and this is what the original motion looks like.

Oh my god.

I now we're at now.

We're at the entirety of the original motion.

I didn't want it through the chair.

All right, it's too late.

Yeah.

That's true.

That's what I was trying to call the question because we'd settled it.

So now it's back to county board chair, and that sentence has been added via amendments.

So now we're back to the original motion.

Now we need to vote.

Yes.

Can I make a motion?

Yes.

I would like to move that we make it.

Um a county more a county board member.

Can make can do um once per fiscal year as budget allows.

Can do an additional training by right?

Because that's it.

And then we all know that it's on our website where we went, what how much it cost, and it's transparent to the public.

And then the county board member is responsible.

The county board member decides.

We are all adults.

Um we can make that decision.

Um I think you know, we rep we all are elected independently.

We all represent 40,000 people.

We're all educated.

I think we can decide that.

It's once per year, we can try it.

And then if we if it doesn't work out, or if there are abuses, we can amend the rules again.

I mean that the rules are a living document, and we can change it then.

But until then, the county board member can is allowed to have it by right once a year.

That's my member casman is is the amendment just to remove and approve by the county board chair.

So we'll just say other travel training and events related county business.

This is allowed once per fiscal year and as budget allows.

Yes.

You'll need a second.

I'll I'll second it.

Oops, we lost Zoom.

Uh let's still look at Melbourne.

Yeah, we lost Kevin.

If I want to discuss it, so the way that it would this there is a second, so the way that it would say the what it would say is other travel training and events related to county business, period.

This is allowed once per fiscal year and as budget allows.

Yep.

Okay.

I got a comment.

Do we have to wait for this to come up to vote?

You can start the discussion.

Can I just have discussion?

Member Clark.

Yeah, I mean, I kind of I'd like to see more people go to trainings.

I am a little concerned about there's no limit on.

I mean, I know it says as budget allows, so that makes but we could just see what happens in the next six months and then kind of take it from there.

Recording in progress.

Oh, we are back.

So I mean, I'm like I said, I'm a little concerned that there's no limit.

It does say as budget allows, but I do feel like we are county board members.

If we want to go to a one thing a year, we could try and see how it works.

So I I'm I'm just I'm gonna be yeah, so I'm okay.

I'm getting tired.

I know it needs to we need to move this forward.

Should we vote?

Yeah, so thank you.

So I just want so I as chair over the last seven years have gotten lots of requests for gardening classes because we do, you know, we care about climate.

Um there's a lot of requests that come through.

So just to be mindful, and I think we all know how many people constituents do we think are visiting our websites and carefully considering the training.

So these are taxpayer dollars.

I I I think we have controls and oversight in place for a reason.

So that's all I had.

Thank you.

Okay, Commissioner Frank, our member Frank, excuse me.

Thank you.

Sorry, I need to get on camera.

Apologize.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Uh I'm concerned about the language in the amendment that says by right.

We don't have any independent appropriation or spending authority as board members.

That's not how it works.

And um I have no objection to investing in education or conferences.

That's not my objection.

My concern is that we would have independent spending authority, and that that doesn't make sense to me.

Thank you.

So we need to vote.

Yep.

You're voting correct to remove the words and approve by the county board chair.

And that so it has no approval?

Correct.

Right.

Yeah, no.

That's right.

Okay.

Has no approval.

Nope.

I will amend it.

Okay.

We need to make the you okay.

So I'm sorry.

We need to so you're gonna amend your amendment.

Oh my god.

Yeah, this is the winning it's just a vote on this.

Okay, we need to vote on this.

We're going to vote whether so nobody can approve this.

It's just you get it education and nobody's going to approve it.

That's what this says.

And if you want nobody to approve your spendings, then you vote yes.

Otherwise, no.

Yes.

Thank you.

Go ahead.

Okay, I'm looking at this.

So now we remove the chair from approving whatever.

So now what you're saying, that county board on their own, just said, hey, I want to go to I want to go to New York for training.

Who approves this?

We talk about tax dollars.

Exactly.

We're talking about uh uh these are uh uh people's dollars, you know.

I see the eye blanket.

No, no, no.

I'm I'm I it's not to you.

I'm uh this that's what we're gonna have to do.

I don't like but that's what we're talking about now.

I come in and say, hey, I want to go to California for a training.

That's up to me.

But we these are uh uh people that paying we we riding off of their taxes, so we're not uh respecting them how much of tax dollars that that person can go what you said they go twice a year, once once once a year, but it's still taxed dollars that we can say that we want.

I'd rather have somebody approving it and let them know this is the way it happened.

The county, you know, we need to keep the county up.

We need to keep the county if that's the call, that's why I don't want it going to finance.

Finance got everybody on and they're commissioner.

I don't need no commission to tell me why I can do it why I can't.

And we got the same, we have the same uh uh uh uh we're doing the same thing, representing a district.

They might not say, Well, I'm not gonna vote for me, you know, because I know how to operate.

So uh yeah, and that's why her motion is she wants her motion was to approve with no approval.

So we have to vote on this, I believe, before you change it.

No, I'm not changing it.

I just want to go ahead.

Um so I I tried to make it so that it was subject to the county administrator, who is objective.

I personally had the experience where it was refused, the rationale was not clear.

The and I know other members have had conferences approved that have been less germane, less uh and it feels anyway to me like it's based on who does the asking and less on the validity of the training or the the benefit to the county.

That's why I thought the county administrator would be in the best position to decide what's germane to county business.

Yes, this is to take it.

This conversation is just to have no approval at all.

That's right, it's dangerous.

It's very dangerous.

So let's move on to the vote.

Roll call.

Yes, if you approve to have no approval, member Casman.

I vice chair clerk.

Aye, member Cunningham.

No, Member Peterson, no, Chair Roberts, no, uh three no two.

Yes.

So now we're back to the original motion, which has been amended a couple times, and it's the county board chairs the approving authority, and this is allowed once per fiscal year and as budget allows.

I'm gonna make a motion to change it to the county administrator so we can so because it's it seems to me there's a problem with having the county board chair approve this, so I'm gonna motion that we change it to the county administrator.

Second chair Cunningham.

Member Cunningham.

I'm gonna make a motion to change it to the county administrator so we can so because it's it seems to me there's a problem with having the county board chair approve this so I'm gonna motion that we change it to the county administrator second chair Cunningham member Cunningham why um this is me asking the question why would we give it to the county administrator when the chair of the county board been proving it ever since I've been here been proven while what what while we well we want to put the administrator all this pressure on her and all this work on her with 19 commissioners and the county board chair, all the county board chairs that we come through, they was proving this with no problem.

So why would we want to dump it back to the I'm not this I I because the Commissioner Casbon made the motion, she felt that it was it wasn't biased.

No, it is that's what I'm just repeating what she feels saying, but see the thing of it.

We got the weed one run in the county, we the one serve in the taxpayers.

So if they want to, yeah, so why don't why the administrator is saying that yay or may when the county board chair been doing it all the years?

What why would while we changing it?

Make me make me see why we while we have to change this, take it out the county board chill left, and give it to the administrator when they supposed to do other things.

We don't have to, Mary.

We can vote no.

Oh, I know all about all this.

I'm just asking the question.

I want to hear the answer why I know how I'm gonna vote, but I'm just asking the question why.

And Commissioner Caspin spoke earlier and explained why.

And if you want to say it again, yeah, because you know I can't hear.

I think there's not objectivity to the process right now.

So there's not any kind of whereas the administrator is objective.

That if it's germain, she can decide and then move on.

I asked her if she'd be comfortable with this.

She said yes.

I'm not the only member who's brought a training forward that was refused that they didn't understand why.

Um, and there wasn't a good reason given.

There wasn't a I would say rational or reasonable reason given.

It was just no, and because we have staff, whereas you could say that about every single learning opportunity.

There's staff for every single learning opportunity, whether it's NACO, whether it's Harvard, whether it's whatever vote.

I think it okay.

Oh, I'm sorry, did you I do just one thing I just have the point of order?

I had I'm sorry, I just it's we've been on this for an hour.

Yeah, because I get to leave and then the people then I I'll call the question.

Okay.

You need a second to call the question.

I'm I'm seconding.

Okay.

Then you need a vote.

Yes, then you need a vote on whether or not to call the on if you can call the question.

Vote.

Can I have a all in favor?

I all in favor on what?

To vote on the amendment.

I'm a no.

Vote and have it over with.

I'm a no.

Okay.

Okay.

This vote is let me read it.

Wait, isn't Chris.

Carissa was talking, and we were voting whether Carissa can continue to talk.

Okay, that'll come.

No, I I called the question.

I'll call the question.

That's what's and the eyes had it.

So yeah.

So no.

So now we're back to so now we're questions been called, so now the vote is on the county.

Should it be the county administrator or not?

Roll call.

Okay.

Uh member Casman.

Aye.

Vice Chair Clark.

Aye.

Member Cunningham.

No.

Member Peterson.

No.

Chair Roberts.

Aye.

So now we're back to the original motion and it is as it's shown here.

So it's this in its entirety.

Okay.

We need to vote.

Okay.

This one on what?

Explain these.

Now we're back to the original motion where it's just this whole sentence right this whole section right there.

What other trailing train?

That's what you own now, right?

Yes.

We have a quorum.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

All right.

We need a vote.

Yes.

Member Cassman.

Aye.

Vice Chair Clark.

Aye.

Member Cunningham.

No.

Member Peterson.

No.

Member Chair Roberts.

Aye.

Three I two no.

Yes, it's crazy.

I know.

I'm sorry.

It's all right.

I have a quorum.

Okay, we'll move on to point 8.7, committee action amending.

Appendix 8 H, Section 3 of the County Board Rules of Order and Operation Procedures by inserting a new section 3.1 member guest must be treated courtesy at all times while a country countywide elected official department head and other staff attending the board or committee meetings at the request of the lake county board as the floor, board members, committee chairs, the chair of the county board shall refrain from interrupting the speakers unless the speaker is ruled out of order or engages in discourteous behavior and inserting new section 3.1.

If during the course of this discussion of agenda item that being includes an invited countywide elected official department head or staff or county board member makes an assertion by the countywide elected official department head or other staff finds erroneous, the guest shall have the opportunity to correct the record before the next member speaks.

And I need a motion and a second.

Motion.

Second.

Bye.

So this is just an inserting the section as was read, and member Casmin had requested it under the rules of the quorum.

So this is consistent with Robert's rules in general, Robert's rules throughout stresses, um courteousness and um decorum.

There have just been some times, I think, when things have gotten heated with a countywide official or department head or whatever, and the chair of the committee or the chair of the board sort of interrupts them mid-sentence, and they're not allowed to finish their sentence.

And the optics of that are that that person is silenced.

There have been times that I've noticed several times in whether it's committee or county board meeting where things kind of go off the rails because members make assertions that aren't necessarily fact-based, and then the conversation goes far afield from what the facts are, and the staff members kind of sitting there going like this and like raising their hand, and they never get called on.

So it just allows them then to get people back on track to what you know to what the facts of the of the of the matter are.

Okay.

Okay.

Member Cunningham, did you have a question?

So yes, I have uh not a question, something like a comment.

Oh the guesses.

If you know, I never been in a situation where you know, a member, I get interrupted all the time when I'm speaking by the own kind of board members.

So and that's an insert to me.

But it don't make me feel a belittle me.

Because when you speak in you supposed to let that person speak, not to interfere, because we all adducts here.

We ain't no children, and everybody went to school here.

So uh I I see things that I don't want to see, you know, from when you're speaking, and uh when uh um the guesses when they uh uh I think uh we treat the guests pretty decent when they if they want to speak.

I don't think that we but sometimes the guesses in which is a you can see it for myself.

The guess is if if what they say if it ain't about county business, the guests have no reason to talk about you, have no reason at all, but I don't see uh um I don't see uh uh lawyer call them down.

I don't know if the lawyer's supposed to say uh uh who's supposed to tell them this ain't about county business.

I never heard that since I've been here on this administration, but I heard it on the other ministration.

They said this ain't about county business.

Let's talk about it, and we didn't read what you know when the guests speak.

They be done already read the lawyer being already read if it ain't about county business, it's not to talk about the elected officials and blah blah blah.

But it looked like to me it'll be about the it'd be is about the elected officials.

I'm not just saying it because they do mean, but they do a little bit of they do who they want to do, you know, they pick the ones.

So uh I have a uh I have a uh a problem with that.

And my community have a problem with it because they listen to it and they call us me.

So why they own to come in and discriminate you.

And I said, uh uh black on black crime.

That's what I said to them.

So uh I don't know.

I hate that I don't like I'm a Christian.

I don't like to see someone come in and try to dominate her, you hit it on it bothers me.

It's it's it's really bothers me to see someone and no one say anything to the guesses to the ones that come in and say something when uh they done read it and said you're not supposed to do that, but nobody, I don't know if they're scared, if the law, I don't know if they're scared, saying some or what uh uh uh they won't say anything to the person that coming in, but uh and and I call point of order, I don't think nothing wrong with that.

Okay, and I think that's what this is this whole thing is about to make it cur so we are allowing our guests to have the same respect as we do.

I just want to be clear, we're not talking about public comment.

We're talking about um countywide elected officials, our county staff, okay, or their staff.

Right, teacher too.

Yeah, it I I'm not I'm not saying anything negative.

I'm just saying I'm not talking about public well that need to go in there then.

It it says that's what it's in here.

I'm talking about the meeting guys while the I got the while accounting.

See, there you go.

I think you have to amend it.

She acknowledged me.

She acknowledged me.

She didn't have the floor.

I thought you were done, and I asked her to speak.

That's the problem.

Mary.

We're not listening to one another.

I was still talking about the I know y'all, I know how y'all.

No, no, Mary, I she was clarifying.

She was just like, You don't need to clarify her amendments.

It's her amendment, and she was clarifying, and I asked her to clarify her message.

Please, please.

I'm not always one here fighting for myself.

Mary, if you want to amend this amendment, then you that's do you want a motion to amend this?

I'm gonna vote against all of it.

Okay.

I'm tired of people trying to take over me.

This just sets me back.

You know, yes.

Do you have a question?

Thank you.

You know, I uh I'll be perfectly honest with you.

I know the reason this is in here.

And I want to tell you right now as a board member, and I feel that one of our elected officials have not handled something correctly.

I'm not gonna keep my mouth shut.

Hello.

I'm sorry.

I am not gonna keep my mouth shut.

You don't know about a mother.

Amen.

I'm I think I got the right to question any of those elected officials that I choose to.

You sure do.

Member Cassman.

Just to clarify.

This isn't about limiting a board member's ability to speak at all.

It is saying that we don't interrupt people when they're speaking, that we don't interrupt the countywide elected official, the staff member, or um department head.

If they're speaking, if they're mid-sentence, we don't interrupt them, we let them finish their thought, and then board members can say whatever they want.

It's just no interruptions, and allowing staff at times to clarify the facts of what's before us if it goes if the conversation goes far afield.

That's all.

It's not, it's not at all inhibiting a board member's ability to speak their mind because every board member deserves to express their opinion and their thoughts.

Right.

Okay, so and this is not including public comment and then commissioner um member Cunningham.

Did you have something to say?

Yeah, yeah.

First of all, we all represent a district.

We all is commissioned, all us got the same title.

You know, it's nice.

Some one of the commissioner, you know, correct you and tell you, not correct you, tell you what's what is what.

But I don't need no commission to tell me like omni chow, you know, and uh uh how can you speak?

This is a freedom of speech, right?

You can speak, and I don't need them to interrupt when you're speaking.

I have been speaking, and they just interrupt for no reason.

Don't cut me off, and then you got an audience out there looking, and they like, why did they do that to you?

Because now I'm coming back on them.

They did it to me in public, might do it to them in public.

So uh they don't know no more than I know.

I could see if there was a genius, but they're not.

We working together here.

We're supposed to work together.

We're supposed to work together.

We're supposed to make sure that we replicate, because I I constantly, I know mine, they be on on the Tuesday when we have in our meeting, they be listening.

They won't come in, but they be listening.

And uh uh, and that's what I'd be uh uh careful.

So uh uh I know everybody won't some everybody wanted their way.

Sometimes you can't have it your way.

Understand.

Thank you.

I've got Member Hunter, Chair Hart, and then Member Hewitt.

Thanks, Chair.

Um I also think I recognize uh why this is being brought up.

You know, in 180 years that this county's been around and have been operated.

Um it's by definition of this committee, we have to have rules, but I also think we're pretty civil people.

I don't need to be told how to be civil.

I I I just don't, that's what Robert's rules of orders.

I'm not trying to redefine Robert's rules of orders, and I get the feeling that this is what we're trying what this motion is trying to do.

I uh you know, it's been interesting to watch how the sausage is made today.

Um we got two hours into this, and after a couple words in the last one with an hour plus, I I'm looking at these two paragraphs, going, my god, uh who's ordered dinner?

Right.

I mean, this is goofy.

Um, but that's uh that's that's uh that's my two cents.

I I we've been around for an awful long time, and I don't think we need to to rewrite Robert's rules of orders.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, Chair Hart.

Thank you.

Um, so just to be uh to clarify, I I would be opposed to this.

Um I as board chair and as part of our rules of decorum will never allow anyone uh countywide elected or our own colleagues to disparage current or former uh county staff.

It's inappropriate, and it's actually in our rules that if anybody has a concern, they can come to me directly.

So I will always um interfere when that is happening, full stop.

Thank you.

Umber Hewitt.

You know, um, no, thank you.

Anyway, um frankly, I was appalled to see this in here.

I am thoroughly disgusted.

Remember, Cunningham has been on this board for 23 years.

Member Peterson and I have been on this board for 18 years.

When you look at all of the meetings we've attended, the things that we have heard when we have had public comment, whether it be public or not, they're all treated the same way, and when people say things that are not true, I have an issue, but we all sit there like perfect little board members and keep our mouths shut.

Before I would agree to anything here, I would like to see them held accountable to this instead of us being accountable to them.

Thank you.

Member Kasman.

To be clear again, this is not about public comment.

This is about courtesy to staff only.

Um, so it's and what it pertains to is just interrupting them mid sentence, so allowing them to finish their sentence and not interrupting them mid sentence.

That is completely consistent with the rest of Robert's rules.

I've observed with a number of elected officials and staff members.

We may not realize it happens.

Um, that it's not just first of all, it's not just one situation, it's a number of situations with a couple of elected officials, some staff members.

It's really just about not interrupting them.

That's all, and allowing them to respond if an incorrect comment is made.

That feels like basic decency to me and basic courteousness.

It's not, it's not about public comment.

Again, it's about courteousness to staff.

And I think that was should be something we could all agree on.

That's all.

Member Cunningham.

You're thinking it's gonna be my last, and then we can go and vote.

Thank you.

Um I've been I've never I don't think I ever missed a meeting.

Uh county board meeting.

I never seen staff got cut off and didn't finish up the they sent us what they were speaking on.

And uh if it did, I I must was frankly.

I didn't pay it no attention, but I pay attention to everything.

So uh I know this is not uh uh audience time, but whatever when they get up, do when the staff speaking, do we put the we don't put the clock on them, right?

I don't believe so.

We do not.

We don't so how we gonna cut them off when we ain't got the clock on them.

So some ain't right here at this picture.

Some is not right at this picture.

We need to get our homework and our facts right before we come with it, before we come with something.

I don't know who is I I ain't seen no staff that here now been cut off, maybe some work years ago, and I didn't see any got cut off then when they come up and not even at no committee, and I've been running law and the dish here for the long as I haven't seen no staff come up and you know, and I we say it don't, you know, this is enough because most time our staff is very well professional, they do not come and want to make a speech, uh uh our training at our committees.

They get up, say what they have to say, and they gone.

They they they they not you know, so uh I don't know where this coming from.

You know, we gotta I just want to say this and then uh I'm so hot hurt because I love my county.

That's why I'm still here and gonna be here.

And so um we we uh uh we got to stop finding faults on one another, you know, because we got good commissioners.

I want to hear uh I I I hear it, I'm everywhere.

I got uh uh uh luncheon at four o'clock in the city with the with the wood that political in Chicago, and I call them the big weeks, and uh I hear a lot from them how they praises our county, how they praises our leadership.

So uh uh we don't need to be uh if I'm getting out of order, you stop me.

We don't need to be dominating I'm listening that we we under the cover dominating one another.

Right.

I don't like that.

We dominating one another instead of going to that person.

Have you got some would mean come to me?

Gotcha.

We women's and men's come to me.

Not I'm not a man, but we women's but come to me, not don't go to uh Lucille about me.

Come to me and tell me so we can run a better operation.

We we uh uh we just don't know how fortune wheels with this county.

Well, I think we're ready to vote.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay, they were well called Member Casman.

I member Cunningham, no member Peterson, no Chair Roberts, no one, yes.

Okay, thank you.

Uh item 8.8 resolution approving the county board rules of order and operation procedures, amendment one.

So, Chair, this um encompasses everything that was discussed today and a number of other administrative changes that I'd like to go through if that's all right.

Yes, and these are things that staff has reviewed um to determine are maybe aren't necessary or some clarifying points.

And uh okay, and this is the table that you have in front of you.

Um there we go.

So under committee minutes, it states that votes taken during a committee meeting shall be electronically recorded during the meeting and reflected in the minutes.

It's it's usually not electronic, so we removed the word electronic.

Page 22.

The Veterans Assistance Commission previously was still reporting to the HCS committee.

That's not necessarily a department that brings anything to any committees anymore, other than the budget that we accept.

So therefore that was moved to the finance, financial and administrative committee.

That was another 20x.

One challenge that uh staff has said that could potentially cause some confusion for us if we're not aware of what's going on with respect to electronic attendance and if a member followed the appropriate process or not, is we've we've added a sentence that if if we don't know what's going on, if staff is unaware of what's going on with respect to electronic attendance and the proper procedures were not followed, that member will be marked absent as we have no way of knowing otherwise.

The other one back to uh travel and training for board members.

Um there was a statement in there that stated that uh board members that are attending a training conference, you'll provide a brief report to the appropriate standing committee within a reasonable amount of time.

That's not consistently handled.

One and two, in most cases, chairs that attend those conferences do provide it under their members' remarks, so staff just removed it at this point.

Uh member Hunningham.

We haven't got to uh we haven't got to uh memo.

We hadn't got to the yet okay.

Uh okay.

Approved government training and professional events.

Staff just clarified this is for out of area or local events.

That up here it says that you can go three times out of area, you get 250 for local.

These are attributed to either of those.

So that was just a clarifying point.

Uh well.

Um county board staff.

This was pretty solid with the word will.

County board staff will be responsible for uh travel arrangements.

There are some cases in which, and we provide for an allowance down here.

If county board members want to plan the travel themselves and be reimbursed, the same process is followed with respect to transparency.

Everything's posted on the website that we uh we do see that say that they can seek reimbursement after travel ensuring adherence to the the travel and business expense reimbursement policy.

That's just the option that we're providing county board members as it uh is something that's come up in the past.

Oh, I'm sorry, what was that a thumbs up or did you want to say something?

Oh, I'd love to say something, Chair.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you.

This is uh for somebody that travels for for a living.

Um I I have the ability to be able to book a flight, usually a lot cheaper and put my butt in a in a seat that's that's according to things that I need during that flight.

And I haven't been able to do that.

Thank you.

Anything else?

Not on that one.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

This is just clean up, it was differentiating between the county administrator staff and the parliamentarian as two separate parties, but in committees, we function as the parliamentarian.

So we just this section here is just clarifying that the county administrator can function in meetings as the parliamentarian, and then that cleans up the rest of this section.

Um during COVID, we had a process in which we would allow people to providuals to provide um written public comment.

And then if you remember, I'd sit there and read every single public comment for 20 minutes.

Um so we've cleaned that up a bit.

We still accept written public comments, but I don't read them all.

We just send them all to you prior to the meeting.

That's the process.

So this section here um kind of clarifies that and states what that allowance is, and then there was a whole section down here that was related to that that was deleted because that that process is not really that we're not gonna read it.

So it's just a this this is just a cleanup.

Okay, that's fine.

Uh 50 last year.

This one regarding standards of conduct for county staff, that you're not gonna direct staff, um, and that you should be discussing with the county minister.

This is duplicative with respect to the two-hour rule and working with the county administrator to go to staff.

So we removed it.

This section here said the board chair are responsible for attorney how to best interpret and implement these protocols, and it said which can be modified at any time without advanced notice.

That's not the case.

We have to obviously bring that um through a committee action to change it.

63.

Um this is during executive session.

What did the previous said was only the meeting secretary can take notes?

County staff can take notes.

We're all taking notes.

Staff are taking notes during executive session based on the direction that we're receiving.

And then there was some oddities with respect to process.

The the chair is responsible for the selection of appointed officials.

There was the supplement that I do not have background, it was drafted, I'll just say strangely, and and how it's sitting in here, and then it kind of talked about a process that may not may or may not necessarily be in existence anymore, but the rules already state that the process is um the appointed officials are elected by the county or appointed by the the chair to the the county board.

So I think I responsible for I skipped something, I'm sorry.

One last thing.

I think it was just duplicative.

Oh the public comment may be used to address questions.

The speaker's not entitled to response or any such question during public comment.

Um that's duplicative with something that's already in the rule, so we just removed it.

Okay.

That's what staff has.

All right.

Now we need a motion and a second.

Motion by Caspin, second by Peterson.

Roll call.

Oh, yeah.

Was there any was there any discussion?

I'm sorry, is there any discussion?

Excuse me.

So I need to I need to um uh uh make a motion on this traveling with NACO when I travel with NACO.

I thought we were gonna do that.

So if there's a if there's this is the opportunity right now, if you'd like to make an amount another amendment right to the rules.

I like to make a more uh amendment to the traveler of NACO.

I know I go I never miss one yet.

And um, but when you go when I go, county be didn't already pay because I'm the representative for the county, so I have a different pot than the regular county commissioners does, because I am their representative, and uh I am the uh voter, I'm the voter for the for the for our county, but I'm gonna make a motion that I'm uh uh to men that we bring the P COD back to Lake County because it was got taken from us on an incident that our last chair, but he he did everything he spoke and did.

So I don't know why we voted to take the P Card out, because every time I go due to that fact, because he was a great chair, and things happen, but anyway, I'm not going to tip, but every time I go, they will ask you the hotel asked you for your personal credit card.

So when I said, why it already paid for they say your rooms is already paid for, but who makes the the uh in our rules that they didn't they didn't uh uh check that little box it's another little box that the whole for incidentals yeah but uh they checked it because I never had to give my personal card until this now to now to the last year.

So uh uh so when I have a problem, they take my my personal credit card and they use it, they don't use the county, and it's and that ain't if this ain't the first time it happened, and it was from July.

So last month I just got my refund back from uh uh from the county and uh uh I don't think that's fair that if you don't already paid for it, then I have to take my personal, I can't afford that.

1200 some dollars.

I can't afford that using out of my own credit card.

And uh uh, yeah, because Ruth Ann gave me my check.

It's took them that long to reimburse me.

Was that a mistake?

No, it wasn't a mistake.

They this ain't the first time they did that.

So I'm I'm making an amendment to bring the P card back, but leave it at the minister leave it in the administrator's office and we get rid of the travel, give it to us, and we don't have to use our personal credit card.

That's my personal property, and I don't feel I have to use it.

That is my personal property, and it goes and then the county go around and around trying to get to the right stuff, you know, that get to the right peoples that reimburse me.

So uh uh I don't think it's and that's what I'm asking.

I'm I'm making the motion for that.

To uh uh bring back the peak card to allow uh provide an allowance for a travel P card for board members for the right.

When we get rid to go give you your P card, and you keep you can keep your personal, they'll give us the our P card, they'll have a P card here, the administrative office will and when we come back, we give it back to them because the reason they taking it because we had a little bout here with that.

We had it all the time, right?

So uh that's the motion I'm making the amendment I'm making.

So we need a second before we can have discussion need a second no second motion motion fails.

Well, it's me, that's where it's failed.

No, it it opens up a can of can I have a discussion on this?

No, we can't even discuss it.

Okay.

I can't afford it.

I'm just gonna say I cannot afford every time I go on this trip, it get taken out of my personal.

You guys got a husband.

Can we make a motion to maybe have some sort of different kind of card for travel?

Is that possible or does it have to be a P card?

Administrator Sutton want to comment.

Actually, because of the workday implementation, we do have two separate cards now, a travel card that will only um work with the certain codes that are related to travel, such as airlines, hotels, and those types of things, and then separate P cards um that will only be allowed to use for other things, uh non-travel.

So we already do have that ability to have just a travel card.

So that would help certain members that may need to have that when they travel right now.

Right, P cards or these travel cards, these are only for staff um due to the county board rules.

So can we make a motion to have that other card and not a P card?

Can I do that?

We would just state traveling.

State travel or how would we state a P card?

We're referring to them as travel cards.

And not the P card, because that's I think an issue.

Yeah.

So does that mean to have a motion then?

There would have to be a motion to amend to provide the allowance of travel cards.

Is that how we want to say, Patrice?

Travel cards for board members' travel expenses.

Do you want to make a motion for that?

So the cost would be here.

It would just be a travel card.

Right, not the P card that everybody gets.

But will it pay for the hotels?

That's why I get the problem that the hotels.

It is my understanding if you can clarify it.

It'll cover the the hotel and incidents.

Incidentals.

I will have to clarify whether or not food is allowable on that type of card.

I believe that it is not.

I think it will only allow you to pay for hotels and airlines and um trap, you know, um like transport.

Yeah, and I think that's what you're trying to say.

You because there's we do have a free.

So this would be just for hotels and incidentals and um transportation.

Right.

I understand that most of you that sitting here, county commissioners, you got husbands.

It's only one me.

When you take $2,200 and some out of my car, I have to pay that back until I get reimbursed.

But it's a lot for everybody.

It's a lot for anybody.

No, that that's that, and this ain't the first time it happened.

Right.

You know, I don't know why I used to didn't get this years back.

I used to didn't get this years back.

We used to then go through these problems.

I didn't.

So I didn't because I I had a secretary makes my my reservation.

So do you want to make that motion?

Yes.

Okay.

And we can't have discussion until I set I'll second that motion that we have it for tra a travel card.

Not a P card.

Okay, first let's clear it up.

That travel card will it pay for your hotel.

Are you have to give up your no you you use it for the hotel?

Yes.

For the for your hotel for for the the incidentals on your hotel.

So sorry, and so sorry.

I have to I'm so sorry.

That's okay.

Hotel hotel and if you have to travel with it, whether it's a uh uh uh a limousine or a cab or Uber.

Uh Uber I pay for my own okay, but okay, so you'll make that motion.

Yes.

I'll second we need a vote.

Oh, did you we have convert we have to have questions?

So go ahead.

Thank you.

So and I know people have concerns about P cards.

Um, and there was a reason I think why we I think it was wise that we got rid of them.

I feel differently about this travel card.

If I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, because this is uh it's it's something quite different that we've done in the last seven years.

As I understand it, if somebody needs a travel card, they would maybe get it directly from the county administrator or county administrator office, right before they go on their trip and they get that card, and it's to take care of incidentals.

I understand there was maybe some hiccups at the last NACO meeting um on a couple of things, and uh another board member wasn't able to travel, so we had to figure things out like that.

So they would get this card and then upon return, they would give the card back.

Is that correct, Matt?

Yeah, did you hear what I said?

I believe so.

Yeah, is that can we clarify that?

We were anticipating is that um, you know, you could keep the card or we could safekeep it for you when you're not traveling.

The whole intent of this is that you treat um travel expenses differently than you do everyday operating expenses, which is why for work day we've split out the two programs, but this does have the benefits of also limiting the use of the card to only travel related expenses, which may be beneficial to county board members.

Okay, um, member Peterson.

Thank you.

Why do we pay for incidentals?

They make us do that and they want to every hotel requires us to have a card on file.

But I mean, like oh, why don't we pay it?

Is that your question?

Why do we why do we pay it?

I mean, I I wouldn't expect I wouldn't expect the county to pay for well if I want to.

If they want to pay for none of that, well then what would the what would the well if I what if I had can I answer your question?

If I want if I didn't couldn't leave the room for dinner and I brought my dinner to the room, that's an incidental, right?

That's how I look at it.

And the county would have to pay for that.

May I just click on the case?

Please go ahead.

A lot of times you can't even check in to the hotel.

Well, so we book it here, right?

Whomever, and then you get to the hotel and they're like, well, where's your credit?

May I have your credit card for incidentals?

And you might say, Oh, I don't have it, and I think vice chair is like, hey, I don't use my personal credit card.

You would use that travel card, and you may not even charge anything right on it, but they don't even let you get into the room unless you show them.

I know that, but usually the incidentals are not at the cost of the I'm gonna say the county.

Correct.

And that's why they ask for your credit card because whatever you charge while you're there, you know, food, whatever, that goes on your credit card on your personal credit card.

But what's happening to Mary doesn't make any sense because we've already paid for her room.

We know that.

Yeah, we know that, you know, be paid for, they show me it paid for, but when I get the bill, it's come back on my credit card.

Because they didn't ask me for my credit card.

What they charge when you give your personal credit card, they if you own up a bottle of water in that room, they're gonna charge.

Right.

That's what that is.

It ain't that I order food all the time, but I pay it myself.

I don't pay it on the room.

I don't do nothing on my room, but sleep there and get up and go to my you know, and so when you if you if I even get a coffee, right?

They charge you.

They don't they don't give you nothing free.

You have to go downstairs that morning for the compliment break.

Yeah, you use anything in that room, and I don't even use their phones.

Gotcha.

Because I have my phone.

So if I could clarify, that's not just for Mary, it's for any of us that are traveling.

The county does pay for it.

So I have to give them my credit card as well.

So we've got the motion and a second.

We need to call a uh roll call, please.

Member Cunningham?

I member Peterson.

Um Chair Roberts.

Aye.

Uh ex-official member Hart.

I'll I so we're back to the original motion.

Now back to the original motion.

Um we need a roll call for the original for the for the yeah, for the for the resolution.

Yeah, we because we just amended it now.

We need uh we have roll call for the original motion.

Connor Cunningham.

I member Peterson.

Okay, Chair Roberts.

Aye.

Ex official member Hart.

All right.

All right.

County administrator report.

Oh, no.

No, I'm so sorry.

Well, maybe I'm go.

Do I have the floor?

Please.

Thank you.

Um, so and and that's fine if this is done.

I think I misunderstood.

I thought we were just doing these amendments and amendments from staff, and then if anybody had anything else.

That was that was the opportunity, I'm sorry.

Oh, that was the opportunity to do that.

Okay.

Well, I I'll just complete what I was gonna say.

I think it might just be uh what do you call it?

A scrivener's error.

So it might be able to be fixed.

I haven't gone back to listen, but you'll see in the attendance policy that it says board members.

Um let me see.

What was it?

It was like a January through June.

Like you couldn't miss here.

If a committee member is absent for two committee meetings in a six-month period, and it says January through June, comment July through December, the chair of the county board may replace the member of the committee.

And I think it's the scrivener's error, or maybe it's correct, is the January through June, July through December.

I think it's a six-month period.

The six-month period could be February through July or March through August or whatever.

So that's all, but we've already done, but I just that might be a scrivener's error.

So thank you.

Sure, I think that was I think that was deliberate actually, and and part of the discussion at the rules at the time, those two separate sections, yes.

All right, thank you.

And I apologize that that should have been comments in there, right?

No, no, I'm sorry.

Okay.

So Commissioner Cunningham.

There's a member remarks then.

Uh well, can Commissioner Cunningham?

Oh, I don't know.

This I just want to say this.

I know I am the anybody that wanted can have it.

I'm the been the representative here since Susan Smith was the chair for the county.

I'm the representative for the county lake of for our county, and I'm the voter.

The voting uh uh delegate delegate.

I've been that there since Susan Smith was the chair.

Anyone want to get because this last time at the conference, my feeling got hurt.

I got very disrespected by my own county commissioner, and I won't call her name.

And how to vote, you know.

I've been voting doing this for so many years, and me and my uh Mike Henry, one of the Mike Henry commission that I know real well.

We were sitting there, and the commissioner got up and uh come around.

I have what's hearing thing from Cook County people because they were sitting over there by them here and you know the conversation.

Yeah, and so when I got ready when the vote got ready to come, like I didn't know how to vote.

And uh the commissioner came over when our own commission came over, said, let me see what you done.

And I said, Um, you I got a vote in there.

I said, I know you told me, you know, that you was gonna vote with this vote.

We only had 12 votes, right?

And uh, and she said, I want to know what I'm doing, and they want to know why does she come over there and do that to me?

I don't mean to interrupt you, can but I think that should be in member remarks.

I thought I was in member remarks.

No, we're not there yet.

Okay.

We we didn't get to uh oh, I thought I was in the member room.

Thank you.

Uh how is there a county that's okay?

That's okay.

I'm sorry I didn't want to not let you talk, but uh is there executive session?

Uh member remarks.

You and can continue.

Yeah, and um uh Illinois, what do you name?

Roy McCoy, Joey Joe McCoy.

He came over and approached me.

Like, do you know how to do all that?

You know, I I really was offended.

I really was offended for him saying that to me after the I was really offended with my own county board member.

You know, I said, Wonder what happened, what's wrong with her?

So the lady was Anna, she knows you for my camera.

She wanted to come, she wanted to vote in there, and she said, You you're better than me, because I slapped her lips off.

I said, You can't do that here.

Saying that, you know, coming over there.

I didn't know what was going on.

And then some of that other commissioners, some of Cook County Commission.

I said, Oh Lord, every time I come, I somehow stop coming to NACO.

Because look at that, it's all all eyes on me.

And I didn't appreciate that.

I'm sorry.

I did not appreciate that.

If you don't, I asked this is the vote.

You you want me to split your vote and give it to somebody else?

No, I'm with Illinois.

Because we always have voted with Illinois.

And I think that's can I just maybe comment on that?

Maybe we should have a maybe a meeting before we go to two to NACO and address issues like that.

Yeah, but they know better.

We don't know you got to they've been going doing that for the longest, and I don't feel like that we as from the same county could wants to embarrass somebody in the front of all them because counting them loves me.

And they tells me, and I'm like, I don't know what what was I said, that ain't like her.

She never did that to me.

And my feeling was so hurt so bad, I uh I said, wonder what happened.

I know what I'm doing.

If I didn't know what I'm seeing when you go to pick up your condensers, they take you through that little class, whatever, over there at the at the at the they take you through everything, you know, telling you how to do it, when to do it, and we had that uh remember we had that uh that uh resolution first to vote on.

Right.

We had to vote on that first, and I think that's what she got mixed up on because we voted first on that one, then we had to come back and vote on that.

And I said, I'm I'm more cable than you know, and I said, Well, I didn't I didn't I didn't I I I thought about that for months.

I'm sorry that bothered you.

It did bother me, and I didn't want to hurt her feeling because I could have heard her feeling, and she came and stunt right up over me like something to happen, and I said, Well, maybe she drank too much of coffee this morning, but I hope she don't do it again.

But I love everybody.

Thank you.

We love we I think we all love each other.

Yeah, they have to prove it to me.

You don't know what I'm getting.

You don't know what I'm getting, Gina.

Well, I I don't think there's any other member remarks.

And uh real good.

Uh yeah, but I just want to bring that out.

Thank you.

You know, letting them know I know it.

With that, after almost three hours, I call this meeting adjourned, and we'll meet again on May 8th, 2026.