Hello, welcome to our uh Thursday evening special meeting.

Uh as always, we're going to kick things off with the Pledge of Allegiance.

Uh Administrator Kanerath, if you could please lead us.

I positioned the United States of America.

To the Republic for which it stands.

Individual liberty and justice for all the money.

Thank you very much.

Yes, welcome to our special meeting.

This morning we received the resignation letter from Councillor Iman Osman, Ward 5.

On behalf of the city, I want to thank Councillor Osman for choosing to step aside.

This choice is in the best interest of the city as we have important work ahead of us.

This decision allows city leadership to remain centered on the priorities that lie ahead.

As a reminder, it is three minutes.

Please identify who you are and where you live.

Also, for those watching at home, you can also send your comments to public comment at least in main.gov.

Thank you all very much for being here.

Madam Clerk, I believe we're ready to begin.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Item number one, order discontinuing the investigation into the residency of former city councilor Iman Osman.

Requested action to approve the order, discontinuing the investigation into the residency of former city councillor Iman Osman.

So moved.

Counselor Chitam.

Second.

Second by Councillor Harriman.

We're joined here by our uh attorney, uh Mr.

Marty Eisenstein.

Is there anything you'd like to uh say for this agenda item?

Mr.

Eisenstein.

Um just that per the move the mic closer to you.

Oh sure.

Um promise not to scream.

Uh per the city council's resolve on the evening of January 5th, I retained an investigator to start the investigation in terms of the qualifications as a resident of ward 5 of Councillor Osman.

The investigation began when we received the resignation because the city charter clearly provides that the resignation, the vacancy is created upon resignation.

That is section 2.06A2 of the city charter.

We informed uh we confirmed to attorney Barry, who was the investigator to discontinue the investigation and pencil's down.

So that's where we're at.

No.

Thank you very much.

Questions, comments, uh from the council.

Uh councillor Chitam, yes.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um, this is I think an obvious conclusion.

Uh I'd also point out that since uh former counselor Osman is no longer a member of this body, we have no authority to investigate.

So this this wraps it up and puts a bow on it.

I appreciate the effort of the folks that put this resolve together.

Thank you.

We appreciate your work too, uh, Mr.

Eisenstein.

Uh further comments, questions from the council.

Public comment for this agenda item.

Back to the council.

Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Councilor from Ward 1.

What exactly are we going to ask uh Madam Clerk?

Can you please reread the motion?

Sure.

The motion is to approve the order discontinuing the investigation into the residency of former city councilor Iman Osman.

Yes.

Ward two?

Yes.

Ward three?

Yes.

Ward four?

Yes.

Ward six?

Yes.

Ward seven?

Yes.

Mr.

Mayor.

Yes.

Motion pass a vote of seven to zero.

Thank you very much, Madam Clerk.

Item number two.

Item number two.

Uh review to review the steps in the process to fill the vacant city council seat from Ward 5.

Requested action to receive communication from the city attorney and to determine a course of action if necessary.

Thank you.

Mr.

Eisenstein has uh provided a memo to us.

Uh that's covered by attorney client privilege.

Um do you see any reason why we cannot make this public, uh, Mr.

Eisenstein?

I think for full transparency, you should make it public.

Uh it also causes me to admit in public that I made a mistake in the memo, so please bear with me.

Uh I on page one, I refer the word less appears in the third to last line.

It should be more.

I mean I misquoted uh section 2.06 C of the charter.

So I apologize and uh am fully embarrassed by that mistake, but thank you.

Uh we are all only human, so thank you very much.

Uh Madam Clerk, if we were to uh have a vote to um to make this uh document public, uh do we need to suspend the rules for this?

Um I don't believe so because it's all related to this agenda item, but I'll certainly defer to the city attorney on that.

I don't think you need to suspend the rules.

Okay.

Um I guess can we have a motion to make this uh document public?

Counselor Chitam, yes.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um without your guidance, Madam Clerk, I'm gonna stumble through what I think is an appropriate motion.

I move that after the uh aforementioned correction has been made to this attorney client privileged communication, the council uh release this for public purview.

Second.

Thank you, Ms.

Councillor Martel.

Uh did you get all that, Madam Clerk?

I did, yes, sir, thank you.

Uh can we uh please when you're ready, can we call the vote?

Sure.

Counselor from Word 1?

Yes.

Word two?

Yes.

Word three?

Yes.

Word four?

Yes.

Ward six?

Yes.

Word seven?

Yes.

Mr.

Mayor.

Yes.

Uh in anticipation of all this, uh staff has made copies.

So if uh if we can get one of you to hand them out to everyone, that would just be lovely.

I made the correction for the more the less.

I can do the two.

Does it look like uh everyone's gonna be able to have a copy?

I can make that.

Did everyone get a did everyone get a copy who wants a copy?

Okay, I don't know.

I think we're good.

Um Mr.

Eisenstein, will you we will let you present at this time?

Sure.

Um I certainly won't read the memo word for word.

I'll try to go through the memo.

And I did share the memo with all of its warts, namely the typo, with members of the city council before the meeting, shortly before the meeting, so you didn't have a lot of time to review it.

I can tell you that today has been a bit busy day once we learned of the resignation and what are the next steps.

So point one is the resignation is effective on the date it was given and a vacancy is created.

So now the number of members of the city council are six with the mayor uh filling in for that vacancy.

Uh and that's per section 2.06A2 of the City Charter.

Any questions at this point?

So the City Charter, in fairly simple terms, found again in Section 2.06, the very same section that talks about the vacancy spells out the alternatives in term when a vacancy happens.

And there are three subsections that may or may not apply.

The critical ones are subsections C and subsections D.

Subsection C says that if the vacancy happens more than one year prior to the next regular municipal election, I put in quotes the term next regular municipal election.

That's a very important term in the charter.

It's used ten times, by the way, in the charter.

Ten times.

If that happens, then a special the vacancy shall be filled by a special election.

However, if the vacancy occurs less than one year prior to the next regular municipal election, then there is a process spelled out to fill, quote, to fill the unexpired term of the vacancy, to fill the unexpired term.

It's important to recognize that the unexpired term of consular Osman expires not at the next election, but expires as a result of the following election in November of 2027 or until the first Tuesday in January, first Monday in January of 2028.

So my interpretation is that since the vacancy occurred less than one year prior to the next regular municipal election, we'll go into that in one moment, then a process under Section 2.06D is spelled out.

And that process involves the City Council may appoint an eligible individual or person to fill the vacancy for the full term, for the remainder of the term, I should say.

And if it does not within that 30-day period, and the 30-day period expires on February 7, 2026, then the mayor shall appoint an eligible individual within the next 10 days.

And if by some chance the mayor does not appoint an individual, and if 60 days in turn pass, then the city council in turn can appoint an individual.

But there is no provision in the charter for filling the position by a special election if the vacancy occurs less than one year or less than 12 months prior to the next regular election, unless one circumstance happens.

And that circumstance is spelled out in subsection B, which occurs if by some chance at the election that we had in November of 2025, a candidate was not elected.

The subsection B of the Charter, 2.06B of the Charter, provides that the City Council at its election can either appoint an individual to fill the term or can hold a special election.

That's the only provision that provides for a special election.

Subsection B and subsection C.

No other provision.

What does state law say?

There isn't a lot in state law about filling a position, but the most critical thing is if you see if you look at footnote one, state law spells out that a municipality's charter prevails over any inconsistent state law in terms of when a vacancy occurs and how that vacancy is filled.

So the bottom line is that the city council needs to look at the city charter.

Well, you know, something's wrong here, right?

Somebody's going to serve for more than a year without being elected.

I agree with you.

There's something a little bit, there's a disconnect there.

But the literal language applies.01 of the charter that instead of a the regular municipal election taking place every other year, it specifically spells out that it takes place on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November, great language, of course, but in the first November of every or each year.

So a regular election takes place every year.

So when those amendments were adopted providing for staggered terms, the voters had the option.

We could have amended 2.06 C and 2.06D to substitute for the words one year prior to the next regular municipal election to say one year prior to the expiration of the term of the vacancy.

That was not done.

And that's telling, because changing the charter is not up to the city council.

It's either up to the voters pursuant to an amendment or to the voters pursuant to recommendations of a charter commission and to make a whole scale wholesale revision or rewrite of the charter.

Those provisions weren't amended.

And what is really helpful, it's not in the memo, but it's what I did in terms of due diligence is I went back and looked at my notes and some back information.

And I don't know if some of you recall the sequence of events, but the city had appointed a charter commission to do a wholesale remote.

Do you mind speaking to the mic, please?

For our folks at home.

To do a wholesale revision to the charter.

And one of their recommendations, one of their recommendations was to amend Section 2.06 to provide that if the vacancy in the office occurs 12 months or more prior to the expiration of the elected officials' term, that then a special election is held.

So what happened was the City Council decided not to proceed by way of a revision.

The City Council decided to proceed by way of amendments, which were its choice.

And it had 10 amendments, one of which was to provide for staggered terms, and in addition, provided for elections every year.

There was no amendment to Section 2.06 C or 2.06D.

So the language of the Charter government.

And as much as I think that the spirit of the law is that the voters should decide, that's not what the Charter says.

It's up to the voters through an election, adopting amendments or revisions to change the Charter.

So with all due circumspection and understanding that that sounds like a lawyer's answer rather than what is fair.

I'm not paid to decide what's fair, I'm paid to decide what the law says and to advise you what the law says.

And this is what the law says, follow the charter.

And my favorite expression, and I hate to, I probably have used it before, is an expression of statutory construction announced by my favorite justice, Justice Frankfurter.

There are three principles of statutory construction.

Read the law, read the law, and read the law.

And I've read that law, not three times, but 30 times in the last four hours.

So happy to entertain any questions you have.

Thank you, Mr.

Eisenstein.

So just to if I can just recap really quick, due to the changes the uh we made a few years ago, and then without subsequent changes, we are not going to be able to have a special election.

The council will actually need to appoint someone to fill the seat.

Am I understanding correctly?

The process is the council may appoint someone.

I should have made that clearer, by the way, the process.

You have 30 days to appoint someone, which is by February 7th.

The clock starts ticking today.

And you have by February 7th to appoint an eligible individual, an eligible person, sorry.

And if the council chooses not to exercise that right, the mayor shall appoint an eligible individual within the next 10 days.

So but yes, you're right.

You do not have a choice to do a special election according to my interpretation.

Thank you very much.

Council Harriman.

Thank you.

So you said when the when the Charter Commission happened, um I'm sorry, the Charter Committee happened.

I'm sorry.

I don't mean to interrupt, but I just want to make sure I have the right name.

It's called the Charter Review Committee.

Committee.

So they did not you said voters had the option to change 2.06 C and D, but they did not have voters did not have that option put in front of them.

Correct.

So uh to give a more elaborate or protracted answer.

The City started the process of looking at the Charter through a Charter Review Commission, which would have involved a revision, a wholesale rewrite of the Charter, which was adopted many years ago.

And the Charter was in effect at the time as of 2012.

Instead of doing that, the City Council chose not to do a revision, which would be under Section 2102 of 30A MRSA, but they said we will do amendments.

Those amendments were ten in number, and they were presented to the voters to vote on.

None of those amendments changed sections 2.06C and 2.06D.

So the voters at that time didn't have the option to install that provision about the time period triggered based upon when the term expires as opposed to when the next regular general election is.

So it seems like it is another oversight by the review committee, of which there have been a few that have popped up since that happened.

Yeah, I'm not sure if it was an over the over the review committee focused on that, but it didn't get translated to the City Council.

It may have been an oversight by the then City Council as opposed to the review committee.

What do you mean when you say it didn't get transferred to the City Council?

It wasn't made into an amendment proposed by the City Council.

So again, you know, it took me a while to understand the process of changing a charter.

I was involved in changing the charter way back when.

And the first process is to do a wholesale rewrite, which is a revision pursuant to a report of the Charter Review Committee.

And every year ending with one under the current charter, you're supposed to do a revision or appoint a charter review commission.

The City Council, in its wisdom, decided not to do a revision.

They decided to do the alternative for changing the charter, which is an amendment, which is not a wholesale revision, and they put forth ten discrete amendments which were voted on and adopted by the uh by the voters in 2021.

Okay.

Thank you.

Councillor Chittham.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Uh and thank you, Mr.

Eisenstein, for your diligence and your work.

Um I fully agree with you that the Charter very clearly spells out what the obligations and authorities of the Council are.

But I think what we have here is a question of textualism versus pragmatism in the interpretation of the Charter.

You have admitted that personally you feel that there was an oversight.

I think we all may feel that same way.

Uh if the Charter is interpreted strictly and there is no provision for a special election, then what we have in effect is seven individual members on the City Council voting to choose a representative for nearly the full two-year term of voters in Ward 5.

If the prohibition against a special election for vacancies occurring less than one year before the next municipal election is interpreted strictly, then there is no need whatsoever for Section 201C in the Charter, which specifies what happens if there is more than a year left in the term.

That becomes obviated.

So it's apparent to me that there was an error on someone's part or somebody's part in adopting this charter.

It seems clear to me, at least, that the intent was that if less than one year remains in the term of the council position which is vacant, then the city council will appoint a replacement.

That is crystal clear to me as the intent.

And what I'm saying is that again, we're having a discussion on textual interpretation versus a pragmatic interpretation of the of the city charter.

I would argue that the selection of a representative from Ward 5 by seven people up on this day disenfranchises the voters of Ward V.

And I would argue that we should in fact look at the intent of the Charter rather than the strict language.

To that, I would ask you as a city attorney, what consequence.

If the if the council up here decides that in fact we do want to hold a special election, contravening the words of the Charter, what exposure does that have to the City and to the Council?

I mean, that puts me in the position of telling you that you violated the Charter, but I will say that it's my opinion that you have zero authority to propose a special election, and any citizen of the City of Lewiston could make an argument that any election held and the appointment of an individual to fill that vacancy is invalid.

What the consequences of that is, how that plays out in a court of law, I'm not sure.

That's not I'm not paid to describe that, but I am saying that is one possibility.

Thank you.

Counselor Nadine.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um, in layman's terms, uh, Mr.

Eisenstein, uh we're saying that it it's it it's pretty clear that the intent is not being met, correct?

No.

You believe you believe that there was the intent to change the charter to allow the city council to appoint somebody to a two-year term.

Do you believe that to be the case?

No.

What I believe to be the case is when the city co when the city adopted amendments, they chose not to adopt an amendment to permit an election within one year of the term.

They chose to retain the existing language of the statute.

And my thought is that that may not have been a mistake.

That may have been an intentional uh intentional decision on the part of the city council.

The language is clear and intentional decision to propose an amendment.

The language is clear.

Um I don't think that's a mistake.

Okay.

And just in just to clarify, and yet the Charter Review Committee, everybody who is a member of that committee is still alive today, right?

Yeah, no, I do know.

And I watched all of those meetings with great interest.

Um I mean, again, i i it's just so disappointing that uh we have a flawed document that just is creates uh a situation where we can't make a good choice.

Um I mean, if if elections don't matter, um then what's the point?

But the but the very point is that elections do matter.

And the choice was made as to what to change in the charter.

And you made a choice, the city council and the voters made a choice in 2021 that they would change those ten, they would make those ten amendments.

They wouldn't make the other revisions suggested by the Charter Review Committee.

Whether that's a wise decision or not a wise decision, I'm not sure.

When I say that I say with trepidation whether that follows the spirit of the law, my question is the spirit of the law is that the voters should have an opportunity to weigh in on their choice of candidate, and I'm very much concerned about that.

At the same time, I'm very much concerned that the voters also weigh in on what the charter says or doesn't say.

And the voters made a decision to not include a change to Section 2.06C and 2.06D.

Even though it is clear that at no point in time will there ever be a 12-month period or a one-year period for uh 206C to even apply.

Well, for 206B, it there it there could be a 12-month period, both above uh greater than or less than in the case where the election did not prevail.

So there could be a special election in that circumstance, yes.

Again, uh it's clear that a mistake was made in the process.

Back to you, Councillor Herman.

Thank you.

You you keep saying that voters chose not to do this, but they did not have that option.

It was never presented to them.

I the committee who I can't imagine intended for this to be the case because they didn't fix all the other references in the Charter that your interpretation obviates.

There's you know, there's no reason to specify some of these things when we have an election every year anyway.

Um I also just don't think that like it's so anti-democratic for seven people, none of whom lives in Ward 5, to choose who is going to represent someone from Ward 5 for an entire term.

I really I really don't believe that the Commission, I'm sorry, the committee, I keep getting the two mixed up, that they intended to allow for that because they did not fix any of the other issues in the Charter that contradict that.

So is it is it undemocratic for if the term was less than 12 months for the City Council to fill that position?

It it also is there, but that this is a significant change where it's the entire term.

Okay.

I mean, it's a fair point.

It's that's a political point.

My point is that I realize the voters in 2021 didn't have that option, but they could have rejected the language of Section 7.01 to change the election to happen every year, and they could have rejected the staggered terms, given that consequence.

I realize that many of the fortunately, many of the residents are not lawyers reading with a fine-toothed comb every word of the document.

But you have to the democratic process is we adopt a constitution called a charter, and we live by that provision.

Anything further, Councillor Herman?

Um it's just that the I don't believe that voters, when they enacted staggered terms, were choosing to make it such that the council would choose their representative for an entire term.

Um I'm really not interested as someone who lives in Ward III in choosing who represents the people of Ward 5 for two whole years, an entire term.

That person would be completely illegitimate, in my opinion, because nobody from Ward 5 has selected them.

It's just it it seems like to have to have an elected body from all the other parts of the city to decide who represents a different part of the city.

It's just ridiculous.

Okay.

Uh so I would like to remind Council um Mr.

Eisenstein here is to provide a guidance.

Um we are not here to um Yeah, he's here simply to provide guidance uh uh about the charter as it stands right now.

Um yes, back to you, uh Councillor Chidam.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Uh, and I appreciate very much that guidance uh from our city uh attorney.

Um I too feel that were the intent of these amendments to have the council grant the council the authority to appoint an individual for two years, it would have eliminated the section that refers to uh more than one year before the next election.

That that to me evidences errors in the crafting and the drafting of this document.

Um I am fully prepared to say I know what the Charter says.

I can read the words, I understand the language.

I understand the specificity of the words.

I think by now most people who have watched these council meetings for the past year appreciate that I am fully uh I believe in the power of words.

However in this case to me the evidence is overwhelming that those words were wrong that they were presented by the council during the amendments to the public wrongly and I believe that this council has the authority to say this document is wrong in the interests of democracy and public participation we elect to have a special election despite the specific language of the Charter that's how I intend to vote on this issue.

I appreciate your guidance and I enjoy um listening to your arguments and your your explanation thank you.

Counselor Nagine So I'm willing to accept the fact that the that the Charter language is wrong.

Like I'm absolutely willing to accept the fact that that what the intent was is not what the document is right and therefore we would have to accept uh that we appoint uh somebody for that term I also know that this meeting was called originally because we were concerned about getting a special me uh a special election in place uh to coincide with um the election for uh district 94 um for um the state house now that said um if it is the case that um uh we have to either violate the terms of the charter right um but which I think would potentially open us up to liability right um or accept the terms and appoint somebody we have 30 days to do so um there's there there there's no immediate need to appoint somebody tonight for instance right uh you know frankly I I'm I'm incredibly angry at the flawed document that is our charter over and over again issues keep coming up that just we don't rule by fiat you know somebody had made a uh a statement that like what is this Venezuela great question do six people get together uh in an eight hour announcement and say hey this is your new leader um I'm not gonna make this decision tonight at all I I would uh suggest that we adjourn uh until a regular meeting point can I just make one point sorry yeah then I wanted to add a quick uh comment question yes please continue Mr.

Eisenstein what uh some of the counselors have suggested is rewriting the charter to conform with the spirit and to correct an error but under state law there are only two ways to rewrite a charter one is to revise it and two is to amend it both of which require a vote of the citizens so if the underlying principle is what is the will of the voters I don't think it's up to a city council to do the rewrite of the charter as much as they with all due respect think that it's wrong and incorrect that you may well be right you probably are right but I don't think it's your role to do that.

So sorry for for that interest exchange sorry.

Thank you.

Yeah at no point do I think that we should be ignoring your advice on this and I also don't think that we should be violating uh the charter I think that's um you know that will that will open us up to liability and I I understand that we wish that things could be different but they but they are not can you walk us through what would be your um if if we uh you know proceeded and selected somebody what what should be the uh process for that oh I think uh it's a good question and uh the clerk the city clerk and I discussed that I would go through a process of an application process we have an application form here which we're happy to distribute and set up a time by which people from ward five with indicating why they're eligible why they are residents of Ward 5 all that stuff can apply and you set a deadline and for receipt of those applications and you do it and you publicize that in a in a in an important way and while it's not the voters of Ward 5 selecting the individual it's at least giving the public an opportunity to come forward and say we would like uh John Jones or Sally Smith or Osman's brother or whoever it is it doesn't matter who it is.

What matters is that they live in Ward 5.

Thank you.

Um, Councillor Herman.

Thank you.

I would just like to point out that we had the opportunity to do a thorough review of our charter a few years ago, and that was shut down by the city administrator and and four counselors at that point, and that's why we end up with this half-baked thing we have here.

Thank you.

Uh Councillor Chitum.

Uh process.

If the council elects to go with the appointment uh route, um we have 30 days in which to make a decision.

Uh I like the suggestion of seeking interested applicants.

Would the process of reviewing those applicants by the seven of us up here be done in executive session because it's a personnel matter, or would it be done in the open in in public session?

Well, that it's a great question.

I would ask the applicant to say whether or not they you can do it in public session.

It's only it's the applicant's choice.

And if the applicant says I only want to do it confidentially, then you have to decide whether or not to respect that request.

You would hypothetically then have some applicants being reviewed in executive session and others being reviewed in public session, which makes it impossible to do an apples for apples comparison, I would think.

Well, I think you could say, you know, are there certain items in your background that you would want us to redact, but we wouldn't we want this to be a public process as an election is, and we want at least the kind of information you would get that would get circulated in an election to be made public.

I think that's fair game.

Would you envision uh a scenario in which the applicants for appointment would have an opportunity to speak to the public on their platforms?

A la campaign speech, would you envision an opportunity for an intercandidate debate?

Um, you know, those are really good ideas.

Uh I hadn't thought about it.

I hadn't, you know, I was trying to get to the charter and thinking about the next steps, Kathy, uh the city clerk and I did talk about the application process, you know, but we hadn't gone as in depth in terms of rolling it out, candidate reviews, et cetera.

But anything to make it a public process is really warranted.

I would like to um continue harping on the issue of having a special election.

Um I'm I'm aware that this meeting was called tonight as an emergency special meeting uh with scant more than the six hours allowed uh because we are under a time constraint.

If we wish to consolidate a special election uh with the existing um district 94 election, uh our timeline begins now.

It is an extremely tight timeline.

And I think what I would like to do is ask this council to address the question of whether or not we want to adhere to the strict language of the charter or and I'm going to uh uh I'm gonna put my own spin on this.

Uh do we obey the law or do we do the right thing?

That's the question before us tonight.

And and I would like to have the council put that issue to rest so that if the decision is to is to uh make an appointment, we can uh proceed along those lines and and figure out what the next step in the process would be.

Um so uh I I guess in that light I would move that the council schedule a special election uh to coincide with the district House District 94 election on February I believe it's 24th, Madam Clerk.

Counselor Chinam, uh I appreciate that motion, but if we can recognize a couple of other people before we do that, that would be great.

Okay, fine.

I reserve that motion then.

All right, thank you.

Um Councilman Long Champs, then Councilor Nijing.

You absolutely obey the law.

I mean you've got to be kidding me.

I I anything that comes out of my mouth is not going to be pleasant.

So I you obey the law.

Uh thank you.

Uh Counselor Longchamps.

Um yes, Councilor Nee Cheney.

So I would just say this.

Uh one we obey the charter.

The charter is flawed.

We obey it.

Um we also push to change the charter as soon as possible because there are serious issues with the charter and we know this.

Um I would also suggest that the process should be public.

There's no point in my life that I have nothing as private anymore.

My text messages aren't private.

Where I live is isn't private.

Like there's not a thing that a public official uh can keep private.

And so ultimately, if somebody wants to be appointed to a position but only wants to meet an executive session, they probably shouldn't be applying for that position.

I would just say that wholeheartedly.

I also think that it would be nice, we can't guarantee it, but it would be nice if we could ask the person that we do appoint to consider stepping down uh after a year.

So somebody could be elected in the regular election.

It would make me feel a little bit better.

I'm not going to lose uh too much sleep over it because it's a horrible situation we're in right now.

Um but you know, those are the things I would share, and I would just say uh, you know, I think some people know that I'm extremely agitated at the situation that we're in, because again, we're ruling by fiat, and even though we are elected officials, right?

The whole process of the wards and why we have wards and some of the complaints around the last counselor uh that got elected to that seat were about representation from the ward.

And so if we're picking that ward member, it doesn't feel right at all.

That said, I accept it, but I want to get out of here as quick as I can because at this point I'm I'm I'm also incredibly agitated.

So uh uh Counselor Martell, did I see your hand up?

Yes, thank you, Ms.

Mayor.

Um I just uh I part of this echoes the advice from the city attorney, but um I don't think it's fair to assume with voters may or may not have wanted or expected when they voted to adopt this charter or the amendments to this charter, and I don't think it's any more democratic to disregard that by trying to force through a special election when the last thing that was voted on was this charter.

It's clearly defined.

Uh we have advice from the city attorney, and I think the only process is to move forward in that manner.

Um I'd also say the only other option that doesn't entirely disenfranchise every ward five voter who already did come out is um to nominate the candidate that did receive votes from Ward 5 in a very tight race that was barely uh decided by a little more than a handful of votes, and I think that that is how we maintained the letter of the charter in front of us without entirely disenfranchising the voters of ward five.

Uh uh thank you, counselor.

Um Counselor Herman, yes.

Um I would just like to remind folks that the the election for Ward 5 was a over six-point spread in the results.

Um that's six percentage points.

Uh thank you.

Um I mean at this point, I like as you know, without the danger of repeating myself, I wish that things could be different.

They are not.

I think we follow the advice of our uh city attorney and then work to um appoint someone and then you know, David, I or sorry, uh Counselor Chitham.

I liked uh some of your ideas.

I think we need to um yeah, and I don't believe that we're in a position to to appoint someone tonight.

There needs to be a process, and whatever the process is, um it should be thoughtful and then we should uh stick to it.

That would be uh my advice.

Uh Counselor Roy, were you going to say something?

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I'm the only one that hasn't said anything.

Um at this point, I mean, is there a world where we can appoint somebody for a length of time to give an election after a year?

I mean, is that crazy to do it?

It's not unfortunately section 2.06D says you apply you appoint the eligible individual for the remaining unexpired term.

And that's why I'm asking that question, because again I want to make sure that there's no uh wiggle room for any of that, right?

So I don't want to get into the domain and you don't have to.

Thank you.

But I don't want to get into the domain.

I thought it was an interesting um point that Councillor Najen made.

And you know, you obviously can't require the candidate to say, nor should you even say that as a qualification when you interview somebody.

But certainly if a candidate were to make that statement, that would that would give you some comfort that, you know, they're only gonna serve until the next election.

But you can't ever require coerce implicitly persuade them of that.

But I understand the point that he made.

And I appreciate that answer.

Um just for me, it's hard because again, you know, I would I don't want to go against any charter or the charter or anything like that, right?

But I also would like the will of the people to be spoken to, right?

You know, again, that's at the end of the day, like I've heard a lot of comments, like I don't feel comfortable choosing for an entire ward.

Um but at this point I also am not going to go against what has to be done, right?

So again, I'm in limbo.

I would like to go to public comment soon, counselors, but uh yes, counselor Harriman.

We're we're we're we're going to public comment soon, but not right this second, um, members of the public.

Thank you.

Counselor Herman, yes, did you have something?

Yeah, I just wanted to go back to um you know, if if the Charter Review Committee intended for the City Council to be the ones who choose the representative for a ward for an entire term, then why did they leave 2.06C in, which is completely moot, because there can never be a vacancy in an office with one year or more prior to the next election?

So why why would they leave that section in there when it means absolutely nothing?

Charter Review Committee had nothing to do with the amendments.

The Charter Review Committee proposed revisions.

The amendments were proposed by the City Council.

They chose City Council at the time, chose not to do revisions, chose not to follow what the Charter Review Committee recommendation.

There were all sorts of comprehensive rewrites of the Charter.

One of those included the revision to Section 2.06 C.

Now, if I want to be taught a logical with my uh city council president colleague, I would say, you know what?

2.06 C could apply.

Let's say on October 15th, the City Council candidate dies.

And on uh on November whatever the date is of the election fourth, he's elected.

Did the vacancy happen on October 5th when he died?

Which is more than one year prior to the uh next regular general election?

Yes.

And therefore, subsection C kicks in.

So there is a reason or purpose in the event of a death, and we've had city counselors elected city counselors who have passed.

It's not unheard of.

So I think there is it wasn't superfluous in the charter.

If I could reclaim that.

Yeah, if if someone was in the situation you described, there is not less than a year before the next election.

Because you said this person who is a sitting counselor who's also running for re-election hypothetically dies in October, that's less than a month before the next election.

No, no.

I should have been clear on my hypothetical.

Uh can you just lean into the case?

Somebody running for city council say it's uh uh Mr.

X running for City Council dies on October 5th.

Election is held on November 5th.

He's elect Mr.

X is elected.

Did the vacancy in the City Council happened?

I'm sorry, Marty, you're not being picked up by the mic.

Yeah, thank you.

Did the vacancy in the in the city council happen on October 5th?

Or when he was to be sworn in?

If it's a vacancy happened on October 5th, there is more than one year to the next regular general election.

The next regular general election would be in November of 2027.

No, 2026.

No, because the the person who is currently holding that seat holds that seat until January 4th or 5th of the next year.

So that that doesn't work.

The the vacancy the seat is currently held until you know if the if the election happens and nobody gets elected, or this person who has died gets elected.

That seat is still full until January 4th, 5th, whenever the inauguration happens, which will then be within a year of the next regular election.

So that the hypothetical doesn't work.

The the election and the inauguration are on separate uh on separate dates, so there is not a vacancy that happens when an election happens.

I'm I'm just saying 2.06C can never happen because we always we have an election every year.

So if the intent of whomever put these amendments forward was to allow the city council to appoint people to entire terms, why did they leave 2.06C in there?

That's that's my question.

Council Martell, did you have something?

No.

I'm good.

So thank you, Ms.

Mayor.

Uh yes.

Um Councillor Chitam, did you have something?

Um Well, I uh yes.

Um I I would love to engage our council with this totological and uh argument, but not on council time.

Um perhaps we could get a cup of coffee and and discuss this further.

Um it occurs to me that Section 206E would allow for a special election.

Were two more counselors to resign, we could then hold in compliance in full compliance of the charter, we could then hold a special election.

I have a couple of suggestions.

Can we take nominations?

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Anything further, no, I I remember I have a pending motion, but if you want to go to public comment, that's fine.

Uh can the uh we will go to public comment after Councilor Niji.

So I would just like to point this out uh to all of us.

Um we've got uh an L C IP that we have to figure out how to remove 28 million dollars from in order to uh hit the 80 percent rule.

We've got uh a budget that if nothing changes in it uh increases our our taxes by eight percent right now.

We've got uh reaval that's coming.

Um again, we're wasting like a humongous amount of time with like shenanigans and and and things that that that are procedural that have nothing to do with the parts uh of uh of what we're supposed to be doing.

You know, we just lost 200 jobs here in the city.

Like they're gone.

Um like the policy that we're trying to set is being wasted uh with all of this stuff.

And I just want to point that out.

Like we were spending a lot of time not governing the city and not setting policy.

Um this is another example of it.

Uh thank you.

Um, we're now heading to public comment.

If uh yes, three minutes, please identify yourself and then uh where you live too.

And we're four hours.

Uh good evening, uh Matt Roy Ward 6.

Well, interesting that what if you want to cowtow your words about our charter, which I've been standing here for was it, four years now.

The irony is uh apparently our legal firm has had amnesia because they stood here Monday night saying not what the word shout actually means, uh negating any conflict of interest policies, laws, or standard practice.

I was like I say, Councilor Nijene and Councilor Harriman two months ago recused themselves for vote.

That hasn't happened on the school committee against their own policies.

Uh not the first time that a bad charter has been forced on the public back in 2012, the county charter, due to the county charter commission's attorney mostly.

The three commissioners had to go to the legislature to fix it, which then a few years after the fact went to you know uh attorney Eisenstein will probably appreciate this.

Well, Peter Brand might more, but which led to the whole lawsuit against the county, individuals commissioners, and pretty much every town.

Again, the circle of firing squad of suing yourselves, which yes, we shouldn't be doing that.

I just well, the irony is that none of you are brought up.

There is a divert diversion in the charter.

Well, many diversions, but one of them that count a vacancy in mayor and council is treated one way, school committee is treated another.

Back in 2018, after no one ran for Ward 6 for school committee, the council had to appoint, well, appoint not had to, but Mark Kerr.

That's how Mark Kerr got on the school committee for that term and hence became chair.

Well, and then the current member for Ward 1 on the school committee got appointed for a year a century, a year and a half, because there was a vacancy.

It was it, Bruce Damon resigned back in 2020.

The next election wasn't until 2021.

So there is this all the other issues, there's this.

And then Brandon Egginson gave a opinion in the Charter Review Committee's report that they could basically do anything within the four corners, i.e., minor changes.

But you could it is very plausible to argue that going from a every other year to a yearly min super election was not is not within the four corners of the charter and is a major structural argument.

Which look in Wisbyn.

Whoever the their attorney has taken a whole different time on a charter.

Thank you.

Arsenal Claire, Ward 5.

Follow the law or do the right thing.

I would like to point out to all of you that doing the right thing would have been Ivan Osman not being on the ballot in the first place.

The rightful placeholder of that seat is Rinsel, and uh Council Day Jean, you say that uh you're worried about the budget and everything that's coming up.

You have an experienced counselor sitting right here that received uh less than two dozen uh uh votes uh in the opposition.

So you have somebody that's willing, experienced, and ready, and it's my opinion that you use that.

Hey everyone, Janet Bowden, uh Ward 2.

Um Mayor Shaleen, your judgment has been consistently poor.

You've rewarded people who prioritize your political party over the people of Lewiston.

You talk about moving the city forward, but your opponents have brought us nothing, or I'm sorry, your appointments have brought us nothing but distractions, legal scandals, and a total breakdown of public trust.

I sincerely hope this council takes full advantage of this charter mishap and stop allowing the mayor to bully you around.

This is your choice.

Lucky for all of you, there's an eligible candidate in this room tonight who's ready to serve, and nearly won the November election anyway.

Rin Sol is the obvious choice for appointment to this seat.

It's time to stop putting ideology first and start putting Lewiston first.

Please do the right thing this time.

Elect Ren.

Beth Matthews, Ward 3.

First, I want to start by saying that Rin's opponent was never legitimate by any means of the law.

And I want to make a clear distinction about democracy and disenfranchisement.

They're constitutional.

It's either a constitutional or a political argument.

They are not how municipal law operates.

The Lewiston Charter is municipal law.

It's adopted by voters, it's governed by the situation explicitly.

It uses mandatory language like shall, and it does not authorize discretionary alternatives based on value judgments.

If someone believes the charter itself is unconstitutional, the argument belongs in court.

If someone believes the charter is outdated, the remedy is a voter-approved amendment, period.

Until either of those things happen, the city is legally required to file the charter as written, choosing not to is not interpretation.

It's noncompliance.

And every one of you took an oath to uphold this charter.

That's it.

Good evening, Larry Pease, Ward 5, Mr.

Mayor, Counselors, Administration.

We talk about budgets.

We talk about how expensive it's going to be this year.

But yet we're willing to go out and spend more money to have another election when we have people qualified that was wanted the position, ran for the position, came close to winning that position.

It's a no-brainer.

I mean, it's really not a brainer.

You know, you say you don't want to vote for uh appoint somebody because you're in ward five, ward four, wide three.

You you don't feel you have the right.

We're not asking you to have the right.

We're asking you to follow what happened.

What happened was we had a candidate, met all the requirements, ran for the election, unfortunately lost the election, but now that person is out.

Shouldn't we just able to follow him and say, hey, the next person that was in line, can they not just take that position over?

Um it's it'd be like uh how can I explain it?

Uh range choice voiding voting.

If that person didn't make it, the other one would get it.

Correct.

Why can't we do the same thing here?

Same idea.

You're gonna spend a lot of time, a lot of money when you should be getting down to saying, okay, yes, we do have a charter problem.

Let's focus on that.

Let's put somebody in that seat that has a the ability, willing to serve the uh uh experience, uh, and let's go to the charter.

Let's fix that.

That's what we need to do.

We don't need to be spending money for special elections.

Uh I don't know what it cost, but uh imagine it costs a couple dollars to have an election, time, money, everything.

Uh why?

We you know, we have a candidate here in Sewell.

She ran in my position after I got out.

Um I think she's more than qualified.

So it would take just a vote.

Somebody make a motion to do it and let it be done.

Then we can along go home and whoop, excuse me, I'll go home and feel better that we had actually put somebody where they're supposed to be.

Thank you.

My name is Lisa Jones.

I live in Ward 2 and I own a business in Ward 7.

I did not prepare public comment for tonight because I was operating said business right up until I came here.

I've been taking notes while I've listened to you guys talk.

Um I have to agree that it's disappointing that we are using a flawed document.

I don't remember who said that.

I I wrote it when you said it.

But we, the public, who have had a problem for months and months and months with the ward five candidate that was allowed on the ballot, were told in writing by a bunch of people in this room, including Scott Harriman, that we don't get to apply the laws as we want them to be.

We have to follow what's written.

So to see you all up there, trying to say, oh no, that's not what they meant for the charter to say it's scary.

It's terrifying.

You guys are literally trying to change the laws to your own benefit.

It looks like you're desperate to keep Rin out of that seat, is what it looks like.

Just so you know, Ward 5 spoke, Ward 5 wants Rin, 230 people voted for Rin Sewell.

The other candidate was never legal to be on the ballot.

That fight is not done.

I'm not giving that up.

Pretty sure you all took an oath to uphold the charter as written, not the way you want it to look.

Written soul, ward five.

Um I just want to know where all the argument was when we were deciding what the intent to return was.

I didn't see any of you up there arguing then and deciding that you were just gonna decide for yourself what it meant.

And now you're arguing what the charter says.

Where was that argument in October?

Because I ran that race.

I was the only other candidate on that ballot.

And we basically almost split the votes.

That's 35 votes.

So that's not a candidate that Lewis that Ward 5 doesn't want.

That's a candidate that was voted for.

So I would really like to be considered for that ward five seat.

So thank you.

Andrew Jones, Ward 2.

Uh, I figured I'd come up here and speak because I was apparently the only one not speaking.

Um I uh will just echo a lot of things that have already been said.

I'm kind of surprised to to hear some counselors uh talk about dispensing with the charter and doing what they see fit.

Um that I understand why you want to do that, but the charter says what it says, and yes, it's a flawed document, and yes, it needs amendments.

Uh as Carl said, the people who uh worked on it are only human.

Um like everyone else has said, you have someone in this room, Rin Sewell, who is battle tested and ready to go.

Uh Carl, you said uh when you appointed uh Scott Harriman back to the school board that uh a good he's a good choice because he's already been there, he knows knows the process, knows what they're doing, and ready to go as they go into budget season.

Same thing with Rin Sewell.

So I request that you uh choose Rin Sewell for that seat.

Thank you.

Uh further public comment.

Steve Robinson, I am an award-winning investigative reporter and the editor-in-chief of the main wire.

And my public comment today is that my reporter, John Federal.

Where do you uh reside?

Uh I live in uh uh Brunswick.

Uh my reporter, John Featherston, who has been covering this, has as far as I know, comported himself as a gentleman.

Earlier today, he had vehicles driving around threatening him, intimidating him, making gun hand gestures at him.

So I would just like to know what uh is the city council going to do uh uh about issues like that where someone who is conducting routine basic journalism is facing threats of intimidation and gun violence.

Uh we'll be going to the Lewiston Police Department to file a report after this meeting.

Uh just following the basic procedure, but I'd like to bring that to your attention because I think that's uh a pretty important matter that relates to that.

What does that mean?

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Uh I'm sorry, yes, uh Counselor Chitam.

Uh was raising a point of order as to the relevance of this discussion.

Uh we're we're discussing uh a particular agenda item, not general public comment.

Thank you, uh Counselor Chiddham.

Uh further public comment for this agenda item.

Uh going ones.

Okay.

Uh public comment is now closed.

Uh back to back to the council.

Um Mr.

Eisenstein, is there anything that after hearing public comment, is there anything that you would like to uh say or address.

I have nothing to add.

Okay.

Uh comments, uh questions uh from the council.

Uh yes, Counselor Long Champs.

Yes.

Um again, I think the charter is very clear, whether we like it or not.

Uh it does seem very clear that there are some counselors up here that would like it to sway their way, but the charter is clear.

Um should be sitting there is not going to change.

Uh it is Rin Soul.

I think that there were two people running.

Um she didn't lose by very many uh votes.

Um I think she deserves to set up there.

She has sat up there with integrity the whole time.

Um I would like I I would like to get this over with, to be honest, tonight.

Um I would like Rin Soul uh to be the Ward 5 counselor.

I don't know how we would vote on that tonight, or if we even if we could.

But that's what I would like to see happen.

What, Harriman?

Uh counselors, please do myself.

Counselor Harriman, you have not been recognized.

Thank you.

Councilor Harman, thank you.

I was apologizing to my colleagues.

I appreciate that.

Um you have still not been recognized.

So in my opinion, we had two people running, right?

One that um some would say shouldn't, some would say should.

The reality is he's not here anymore.

Our election was very recent.

Uh as some stated she lost by, I think, 30-something.

Was it 30-something votes, roughly?

35.

Um.

So Ward 5 did vote.

I would like to have Rin Soul sit up there.

It is not going to change.

And there are other counselors that recently said they wanted her to sit there, but for some reason have changed their mind.

I'll call that out later.

But I would like to see Rin Soul represent her ward as she did for the past two years with integrity.

And I hope my other counselors would also.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh just really quick, uh, Mr.

Eisenstein, um, what is your recommendation?

Uh uh could the council as a whole, if they wish to appoint someone tonight, could they, or that should really be moved uh to a different meeting.

What are what are your thoughts on that?

Um counselor's long champs proposal to appoint somebody this evening.

Yes, is that uh yes, your your your thoughts and comments on that.

Well, certainly not in the domain of of legal opinion, but my thoughts and comments are that to try to replicate the virtues of an election, I would try to replicate the virtues of an election, which is to interview eligible candidates before you make that decision.

I would try to replicate the virtues of an election, which is to interview eligible candidates before you make that decision.

That would be my recommendation.

That's why I brought forward an application process.

I realize there's nothing in the law or in the charter to say that's the way for the city council to proceed.

It's open-ended as to how the city council should proceed.

But it would be my that's my recommendation in light of the argument of the quote spirit, close quote, of the charter.

And to me, it's a way to address the point that the words of the Charter should be followed, but to by all means to try to implement the spirit of the Charter, which is that voters elect or choose from eligible candidates, those to represent them.

Thank you.

Uh Council Harriman.

I would just like to point out that we received your memo 15 minutes before this meeting started.

Um I did not read that memo until I was sitting here about five minutes before the meeting started, and I do not feel like it would be uh it would be a service to the people of Lewiston to make a decision right now, um, only having known about this for uh about an hour and 20 minutes.

Sure.

I apologize for not getting it to you earlier, but I just learned about the meeting and the need to be able to do that.

Yes, the right.

I am sorry if I implied that it was your fault.

But it's okay.

I just want the viewers to understand that I wasn't dilly dowling.

Um there are no golf courses open now.

Right.

Yeah.

I was I just wanted to point out that we have we have only had this information as a counsel for about an hour and 20 minutes.

I should have pointed that out as well.

You're absolutely right.

Yeah.

And it hasn't even been 24 hours yet since uh Council Iman resigned.

So yeah, I understand.

Uh and thank you for all your hard efforts today.

We deeply appreciate it.

Yeah, and and I think it's great that you have a meeting tonight, because you have in my opinion, the clock is ticking.

And there's a 30-day clock, and I think you should make a conscious decision as to how to proceed.

And this is the start.

It's not I don't think it should be the end, but it should be the start of the process.

So I think it's great that you were made yourselves available on relatively short notice.

Uh we are here to just uh discuss next step.

So yes, thank you.

Um Counselor Martell, did you have your hand up?

Yes.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um very much like Counselor Longchamps, my mind is not going to change on this.

I believe the right person for the job is Rin Sol.

I believe that um Councillor Nagyen made a lot of great points.

There is governing to be done.

There is a law on the plate of this council right now.

I think that work needs to be done from a full council, so that there is votes from uh that represent there's a voter, uh excuse me, a representative from Ward 5 that got votes from the residents of Ward 5 and will vote for their constituents with integrity and um respect.

Again, Rin Sol served without censure or punishment of any kind that I'm aware of.

She signed with dignity and integrity.

I think she's an amazing example of what a City League counselor should be, regardless of how you feel about her political beliefs.

Um if we're going to be trying to replicate a election without having an election, I think the only way we do that is by respecting the people of Ward 5 that did go out and vote uh for Rinseau by bringing in new applicants and allowing someone that didn't take part in the application process to come in now, shortly after the opportunity had presented itself just recently to challenge for that seat entirely disenfranchises every single resident of Ward 5 as they're not going to have any say, and that any new applicant would not have done anything to get the support of uh the Ward 5 voters.

We would be looking to, if if we appointed that person, the any other applicant, uh, we would be doing so in a way that uh Counselor Harriman said that uh he wasn't okay with, which was undemocratic.

So we're gonna take an applicant that didn't go through the candidate process, got zero votes from any Ward 5 resident, and we're gonna stick them up here to represent Ward 5 for the next two years, and I just cannot get my head around that.

Um I really don't care who comes for an application process.

My vote will be for Rin Sol and it won't change.

Counselor Chitam, did you uh have your hand up earlier?

Yes, I did.

Thank you.

Um I want to thank all the members of the public who spoke tonight.

Uh you've made some excellent points.

Uh notably that the law is the law.

Um this has been a very difficult uh process for me to wrap my head around because I feel that the law is flawed.

And I I believe that it's my responsibility as a a member of a democracy to uh uh to ignore a flawed law.

Um you have raised some excellent points.

I did swear an oath, um, which on retrospect I probably should not have done if I had read carefully and understood all of the ramifications of the charter.

Um I am going to say that your comments tonight swayed me.

Um I am still very much opposed to uh simply following what I viewed as a what I consider to be a an erroneous document, a document that was not put together with with uh foresight and with careful consideration.

This harks back to uh a song that I've been singing for two years now, words matter, and if we don't put documents together carefully, we end up with fiascos such as this one.

Um I am in heart going to uh how do I say this?

I'm going to oppose or propose that we ignore the charter.

Um but I want you to know that I've heard you, that I do so with a heavy heart and uh with careful consideration.

I think the right thing for me individually to do is to say we need to let the voters of ward five speak.

Um that's not to be allowed under the charter.

So recognizing that my vote may be the the lone wind, the lone song in the wind.

Um that's how I'm going to to proceed.

Um but I do want to express my appreciation to everybody who let their views be known tonight.

Thank you.

Uh are you making uh a motion uh counselor chitam?

Uh yes, if now is the appropriate time, I will make the motion that I had initially made, and that is that we schedule a special election to coincide with the district House District 94 election on February 24th.

Second?

Do we have we have a second?

I don't want to do that.

Oh, sorry.

I guess I don't want to do that.

You're fine.

Yeah, I I'm sorry.

Uh Madam Clerk, did you get the motion?

Uh the motion is for the city council to schedule schedule a special ward five election to be held on February 24th.

I'm sorry, can you say that again one more time?

City council would like to schedule a special election for the ward five uh city council seat and to hold that on February 24th.

I missed who moved who seconded it out.

Well, we uh so uh that was moved by counselor chick chitam and counselor martell.

Do you want to second?

Yep, that's fine.

Sorry.

I was confused.

Okay.

All right.

So now we have we have a second on the floor.

Discussion discussion on this motion uh by counselors.

Councillor Harriman.

Thank you.

Um just a quick reminder for for other counselors.

I know it's a new year.

Um I would appreciate if other counselors do not misrepresent what I say.

You can speak for yourself.

I will speak for myself.

Thank you.

Further discussion on this uh motion.

Uh I urge the uh I realize it's been uh moved and seconded.

Uh I urge the the council to uh to vote this down.

We cannot be ignoring uh yes, uh Mr.

Eisenstein.

Under the church and the quick circulate petitions and we're gonna wait, counselors if we can.

Attendees that they would have to vote in the body.

So that they would have to have a special meeting.

May I make a point of order while we wait?

Uh points of order are always allowed, Counselor Harriman.

Um I I suppose it does need to wait for our clerk and uh counsel, but I'm wondering at what point at what point do motions become such that the they need to either be on the agenda or rules need to be suspended to make them.

Um I realize our agenda item is open-ended and says discussion and next steps, but um typically when one makes a motion, it has to either be on the agenda or we have to suspend the rules first.

Um I think that can be bent a little bit when it comes to discussion and uh minor things like that.

But as far as making a motion, such as scheduling an election, that seems like something that is a you know something that has to be on an agenda, or the rules have to be suspended first.

Uh uh since you're here, Mr.

Eisenstein, would you like to speak to that?

Actually, sorry.

Sorry, Counselor Harriman.

But what I wanted to speak to is is the motion if even if it were adopted, I'm not sure that would be the end all.

You need to go through a special procedure under the charter in terms of scheduling the petitions and all that stuff, and that's what I was discussing with the city clerk.

It's possible that it could happen, but you know, it's too late in the night for me to count all the numbers and the the, you know, there are certain time by which petitions get circulated, and there are a number of different procedural hurdles to making sure the election is conducted properly.

So my only point is that if you do decide that motion, um you should really think about the next steps and maybe adjourn and talk to the uh to this uh clerk on that score, and that backs up your point, Counselor Harriman, that if you had more time to look at that motion, you may have then seen that, you know, the timing and the counting the time.

So sorry for such a long-winded response to your question.

Uh thank you.

Um Counselor uh Chidam, yeah.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Uh two points.

Uh I would in answer to your observations, um I would amend the motion to say schedule a special election at the earliest opportunity.

Um I have gone through uh the the scheduling and I believe that it can be done on the 24th, but I recognize that gee, I'm human and I make mistakes too.

Um so I would amend the motion to say schedule a public meeting at the earliest um possible time.

I recognize that that motion, that vote will very likely fail, so it's probably a moot point anyway.

Um the second point I'd like to make, Mr.

Mayor, is that you are now a peer with us and you have a vote uh for you to urge the council to act one way or another, then gives us all the authority to say I urge the council to support a special election as soon as possible.

So please remember, Mr.

Mayor, that until this seat is filled, you are our peer, and your urging of the council um has as much effect as our urging of the council.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um Counselor Nagyen.

I ask that we move the question.

Do we have uh a second for that?

Should I say something?

I'll just wait because it's gonna be made a motion to move.

To move the question?

Yeah.

I'll second that.

Uh we have a second to move the question.

Madam Clerk, please uh call the vote.

I'm sorry, Mr.

Mayor, could you just clarify for me, please, who made the motion to move the question?

I'm sorry, say that again.

Who made the motion?

Uh Counselor Nagine, it was seconded by uh uh Counselor Chitam.

I I'd like to call a point of order.

I don't see how we can have a motion on the floor that's not on the agenda, and when we have not suspended the rules to add items to the agenda.

We we can't be making this sort of decision with absolutely no transparency.

Um this was not on our agenda.

We've not suspended the rules so that we may add anything we want to the agenda.

And I I don't believe that it's legitimate to have such a motion on the floor at this point.

Uh thank you, Councillor Harriman.

Uh Counselor, I'm sorry, uh Mr.

Eisenstein, do you want to speak to the uh legality of this vote?

Yes.

So uh now I wish that I retained the agenda that Kathy that I spilled water all over, so I apologize.

It's coming back to you.

Thank you.

And uh Mr.

Mayor, if I could just comment while the city attorney is uh checking on that, I please madam clerk.

Counselor Chitam, I'm I'm not comfortable that your motion is um with the change in the wording of at um earliest possible time is um clear enough or even allowable.

My understanding is that for a special election to be called, the city council needs to set the date and direct me when to do it and to do it, and then we will set the calendar accordingly when nomination papers will be available, absentee ballots, whatever.

But I don't believe that a motion would be in order or binding that it would say at the earliest possible date and leave that up to me to decide.

So just to let you know, thank you.

Uh we're uh hold hold on one second, counselor.

Are are you ready to weigh in uh Mr.

Eisenstein?

Yeah, I I tend to agree with Councillor Harriman that the agenda item was review of next steps in the process to fill the vacant city council seat from Ward 5.

I think a general sense of whether to pursue it by way of election or by way of uh appointment would be within that uh within that scope.

But any more details would have to be set for a separate meeting as to ways of proceeding.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Eisenstein.

Uh Madam Clerk, what do you think about this idea uh as we do in budget?

Um should we uh do a quick thumbs up about whether the council feels a special election is in order or whether we want to simply uh you know create a process where we fill the seats.

Would you be comfortable with that?

Uh I'm not sure that that's my decision, Mr.

Mayor.

I mean, the city attorney is here to answer questions for you, or the city administrator can comment.

I mean, I'll be flooded to the city attorney, but we have you know a motion on the floor and a vote in order.

I don't think consensus is the way to go with this point.

Uh Mr.

Eisenstein, but you're you're saying this uh we really should not be holding this this vote.

Is that what I just heard you say a second ago, or did I mishear you?

My concern is that the agenda item, the subject was to review the next steps.

And you know, deciding to hold an election as all sorts of other implications when it is held, what you direct city clerk to do.

And I'm not necessarily sure that that's within the scope of the agenda.

I look, these are general terms, they're not as clear as the charter, but um I think I'd be concerned that we're you're going pretty far afield, making you know very significant tactical decisions as to ways of either holding a special election when it's held, what you direct the city clerk to do, what the city clerk recommends under and you don't have her recommendations at this point for sure.

Would it be appropriate then to uh you know not vote per se, but just uh run across the days and ask uh counselors whether their preference is to hold a special election or to to uh create a process to fill the seat and then at that point we would have consensus that the the clerk could work towards.

Would that be appropriate?

I think that and to ask the clerk to advise and for your next meeting as to path forward either as a special election or as um an appointment with recommendations.

Okay.

Uh counselor, so at this point I would like to uh start with the war one counselor and simply ask whether what their preference is and then uh use that to ask uh the clerk to uh provide us guidance for the next meeting.

Does that sound uh appropriate, Mr.

Eisenstein?

That's my recommendation.

Yes.

Okay.

Um counselor Herman and then Counselor uh Chitam thoughts before we do that.

Yeah, my thoughts are that I only received this information about 90 minutes ago, and I need to do some thinking about it before um deciding exactly what we're going to do as a next step.

I don't think it's it's fair to any of us or to the public, it's not transparent to have an agenda with without this decision on it, and then to try to make this decision with not much time to think about it, and uh not not any public process or transparency around it.

Thank you.

Uh yes, Councilor Chitham.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um the reason that there is an urgency here is that the window between now and the next special election is as narrow a window as can be accommodated with the necessary steps that have to be taken before then.

That's why we're having a special meeting tonight, period.

Um hearing what the public has said, uh reading the room, so they say uh I am going to withdraw my motion.

Uh I was I was contemplating simply moving that we hold a special election that would obviate some of the concerns expressed by the clerk.

Um but I'm hearing the city attorney say that even that is perhaps too specific given the areas of the given the discussion or the the agenda item that was presented.

So I'm going to withdraw my motion and I hope that uh the second or will as well.

Uh under council rules, you'll need to also I mean you can choose not to, but uh are you willing to withdraw your second Yes.

Okay.

Uh Madam Clerk, have you noted that?

Yes, thank you.

We have now no motion on the table.

Uh uh yes, counselor uh long champs.

You may have already answered this.

Um but again, you know, uh my decision is not going to change.

I think the person that should be sitting there is Rin Sol.

I would like to see if we could see who here on council, you know, sitting up here uh would agree to that.

Can we do that?

Uh I don't know what the right steps are, or you know, if that's an option.

Uh can you uh weigh in on that, uh Mr.

Eisenstein, since you are here.

I do know that you shared your opinion, which I appreciate so much.

But um during the first, you know, the first time I asked.

But again, I just feel like we're wasting a lot of time.

A lot of time is wasted.

People have already gone out and voted.

You know, again, she lost by 35 votes to someone that um wasn't even residing in Ward 5.

Um I feel like we could end this now.

Have someone sitting there that has sat there with integrity that always put the city first, in my opinion.

And her constituents.

And move on to the bigger things that we need to deal with, which is our budget.

Um I would ask one more time that uh if we could see how many counselors would agree to that.

Do we have the votes for that?

If we do, we all go home.

Our counselor is sitting back up there that was sitting there, that people went out and voted for, and we move on to the to the more important things that we need to be uh dealing with.

That's my opinion.

Thank you.

Um Mr.

Eisenstein, uh, you are hesitant to have us vote before.

Do your same concerns still apply to vote somebody in now or so I just want to make it clear that I have the utmost respect for for the counselor.

I I don't mean to reflect an opinion that is negative, but I do mean to suggest that to me, my recommended motion is that the city council choose whether or not to follow Section 2.06 D of the City Charter, and then schedule a meeting based upon the advice with the next step being scheduled meeting based upon the advice and recommendation of city staff as to how to go about filling the special appointment if they vote yes.

If you vote no, then I think you need to vote to hold a meeting to decide the uh contours of a special election.

Thank you.

Um Madam Clerk, did you have something?

Or uh administration I I don't know if it would resolve the issue or try to answer counselor longchamp's um intention that if a motion is presented now to direct city staff to put on the January 20th agenda a motion to appoint um for the open seat.

Yes.

A particular person or not, I mean, however, you want to instruct the motion, but in order to I think meet the concerns of the city attorney, but also accomplish what you are trying to do, which is to be as expeditious as possible.

If the council voted tonight to uh direct city staff to put the appointment on the January 20th agenda, and you could decide in your motion if you wanted to insert a name at this point or not.

Would that make sense?

Uh and I'm looking at the city attorney.

Yeah, with this uh ramification that uh I think it is important to know if there is a majority of the city council that wants to uh follow the appointed process or an election process.

That to me is is a reasonable step that is contemplated by the agenda.

And the details whether or not uh and then there would be a follow-up motion as to whichever step is followed or voted on as to the next step, whether it's a meeting on the 20th, uh uh if the decision is made to follow section 2.06 D of the Charter to appoint a particular counselor.

Um that's reasonable, but not to hold that motion this evening.

Okay.

So uh uh I mean not to hold the decision this evening.

Right.

Correct.

Correct.

So very clear.

You uh uh a few minutes ago I uh planned on going uh a cru you want to ascertain right now whether the council is in favor of a special election or the appointment process.

Correct.

Okay.

Um counselor for one one, how do you feel about that?

Uh the appointment process.

Uh Ward 2?

Appointment process.

Counselor uh from Ward 3.

I have only seen this information just recently.

I am going to abstain from this.

Okay.

Counselor, if the audience could please refrain from um from speaking, thank you.

Uh uh Counselor from Ward 4.

Appointment process.

Uh counselor from Ward 6.

Is this a consensus or a vote?

Yeah, I mean I'm it's consensus.

It's consensus.

I'm sorry, counselors, thank you.

Does this uh consensus then form the voice of the body of the council?

This is how we sort of do it informally during workshops and budget session, as the council will go around and indicate their preference for something without a formal motion before them.

That has been done in the past for past practice.

It could be made into a formal motion.

Sorry to interrupt you.

It could be made into a formal motion.

I am going I'm not going to vote on this.

I'm not going to express my opinion.

However, I am going to reinstate my motion, which I fully expect to fail, that we adopt the special election process.

Then we can have a formal vote and the body can speak as a body.

So if it's phrased in that way, um thank you, Councilor Chitham.

Uh if it's phrased in that way, Mr.

Eisenstein, where we adopt the special election process, um, would that be acceptable for a vote?

To me it would be, but I don't know if it's a special election process, but to adopt the route of the of holding a special election with details to follow in a separate motion and separate uh decision.

Uh Madam Clerk, did you get all that?

Uh basically to uh follow the to proceed with a special election route of holding a special election and then having a follow-up motion with the logistics.

Uh you're saying at this meeting or a different meeting.

I I believe that motion is being made right now by counselor Chitam, is that correct?

Well, right, but I'm talking about the follow-up vote.

Uh the follow-up vote.

If this motion passes, then the follow-up motion would be logistical items.

Yes.

Understood.

Thank you.

Um is that uh are you agreeable to that, counselor uh Chitaman to have a motion See I fully expect this motion to fail, so I think this argument is just to it.

Let's just do it.

Um I would I would like to dispense with it if we could have a second.

Uh if not, then the motion dies for lack of a second.

Uh do we have a second for this motion?

Uh we do not have a second.

Um I plan on continuing polling the council.

Counselor Chitham, would you like to now answer?

Uh well with Councilor Harriman, I we have 30 days um to make a decision.

Uh I'm not prepared to make a decision tonight.

Okay.

Uh councillor um from Word 7.

Uh yeah, appointment process, and I'd also like to move that we hold a formal vote on it.

Right now.

Uh Madam Clerk, did you get that?

Second.

Point of order the to move that we have a formal vote on it.

Can you uh can you clarify your motion, please?

Yes.

I would like to move that we have a formal vote to adopt the appointment process in Section 2.06.

Uh Mr.

Eisenstein, do you have any thoughts on this?

No, I think that's the question.

I I will I will second that.

That's that's the a positive of the I already did.

I I yeah.

Sorry.

Counselors, please speak when recognized, thank you.

Um yes, we did already have a second.

Madam Clerk, did you get all that?

Um if I could just get some clarification, Councillor Martell, it's basically to move to implement Section 2.06D in the Charter?

Yes.

Thank you.

And it's been seconded by Councillor Long Champs.

Yes, thank you.

Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Uh point of order.

There has not been public comment on this, and there has not been council discussion on this.

Uh council discussion.

Uh Councilor Harriman.

Could we have clarification on what the what the result of this vote will do and when the next steps will happen and what the next steps will be.

Uh Mr.

Eisenstein, uh this vote will express the will of the council that we should move forward with the appropriate appointment process, which then we will then discuss after this vote, but we'll likely have uh a future agenda item.

Am I understanding that correctly?

Understanding perfectly.

And I would envision probably a second motion to direct um staff to report on methods process uh to implement the appointment process.

Thank you.

Did you have anything further, Councillor Harriman?

Yes, I guess I just don't know when is this going to happen and where?

I'd like to understand what I'm voting on before voting on it.

Well, so my second motion is not what you are voting on now.

But if I would put the second motion, I would add to report to the city council on or before the meeting city council meeting on uh the 20th of January.

Um given the fact that you have 30 days from the 8th uh from today to make a decision.

So that's the context.

But if I may.

Uh yeah, please continue, Councilor Harriman.

So are you suggesting that that information be included in the motion?

Uh no, no.

Uh we don't have a I mean I have this piece of paper.

Yeah.

It hasn't been fully vetted and discussed, but it needs to be fleshed out to do a res, in my opinion, to do a responsible job.

And so the second motion would be to direct staff to report to you at either a specially scheduled meeting or a meeting on the 20th as to the appointment process.

But that would occur only if you go down the first route, which is to go through uh to follow in the words of the city clerk, Section 2.06D and go through the appointment process that uh uh to develop an appointment within 30 days of uh today.

Okay.

I just want to make sure that we're that we're doing this in an open and transparent way and not that we're selecting someone at a meeting that was called with six hours notice and in which we have only seen the information for about 90 minutes now about what our what our path forward is.

So I would uh I guess I understand what you are saying.

I would appreciate if there's some clarification as to when this is going to happen and that it is not going to happen immediately following this vote.

It won't happen tomorrow.

No.

The question is you need or tonight.

The question is you need to decide as a city council what you think is appropriate as to when you want staff to report.

They staff may be able to tell you, City Clerk may be able to tell you what their opinion is as to when they can report to you on an appointment process, whether it's next week or whether it's the 20th, but that's up to you given the fact that you have 30 days to uh make the appointment.

Okay, thank you.

Mr.

Mayor.

Council uh one one second, Administrator.

Uh counselors, if I may, this uh vote that has been um or I'm sorry, this motion that's put forward by Councilor Martell and second by Councilor Long Trump's, is just to establish the fact that we would like to move forward with the appointment process, and then we will have a second motion to determine the details to ask the clerk.

Yes.

Uh administrator Kenrath and then Councillor New York.

No, I think staff, we're just seeking some clarification on the intent of the motion.

Is the intent of the motion to uh schedule something on the next meeting on the 20th to actually make an appointment possibly with a name, or is the intent to begin a process whereby we then interview candidates and and develop a longer process to be completed within 30 days?

Because I think the intent is a little unclear.

What we heard Councilor Wongshamps and Martell say is a little bit different than what we're hearing about a longer process with interviews, application period, etc.

So can we get clarification on what the intent of the motion is?

Uh yes, right.

Madam Clerk, can you please read the motion that you have that we have before us?

Which motion?

So there are two motions.

So the motion made by Councillor Martell.

And I think we we understand what the motion is, but the intent of those who made the motion is a bit unclear from what we're hearing.

So maybe Councilor Martell and Long Champs can clarify what your attempt is with this motion.

Okay.

Um Councillor Martell, yes.

Sorry.

Sorry, Mr.

Mayor.

Um my intent in my motion is to vote on adopting the appointment process.

I also would like to ask the city attorney.

Uh I do understand your recommendation for an application process.

Is it within the power of the council if someone was to move that we did uh nominate a name tonight and vote on it?

Is that within the power of this council?

Whether we whether or not it resides within your recommendation.

I would have concerns given the agenda item.

So I would have concerns voting on that and voting on an appointment this evening.

Yes, I would.

So I can just break in counselor Martell, is it your intent to put something on the next agenda to make the appointment that evening, potentially with a name?

I'm prepared to do it tonight, but yes, we could do it next meeting if that's what you're doing.

My following motion would be to appoint Rin Sol after we if we were to adopt the appointment process.

And I would like to see that done tonight.

Counselors, if I may, we're um uh starting to get late.

Uh so I would like to set the building alarm.

I guess it's a building alarm.

Oh, somebody's thank you.

So, Mr.

Mayor, that's just the building alarm that was triggered by the cleaning crew or something, so it'll be turned off in a minute, I believe.

Yeah.

Um somebody's tripped an alarm somewhere in the middle of the I it was set accidentally.

At this point in time, for those at home, I do not believe we're in any danger.

Uh it's a little loud, but uh okay.

Uh so I I would like to get through this vote to simply uh acknowledge that we want to move forward with an appointment process, and then we can discuss the next motion if that's okay.

Uh Counselor Nagyen.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I was just gonna point out that it's taken us an hour and fifty-five minutes to get to the point where we're agreeing to follow the charter that's in front of us.

All right.

If the audio uh yeah, there can if the audience could please refrain from clapping, that would be great.

Thank you.

Uh we are now going uh to public comment for this motion.

Andrew Jones, Ward 2.

Uh I just want to point out that these are extraordinary times and we need you guys to move with extraordinary speed.

And if there are counselors that can't keep up, then perhaps they should sit this one out.

That's all I have to say.

Thank you.

Matthew Egwin, ward four.

I didn't think I'd make it back in time for this meeting because I was up in Harmony, Maine today.

But I did, because it's taking you guys two hours to get to the point, as Josh said.

Now, a couple things I'd like to say.

One, our attorney needs to speak into the mic so that people at home can hear him, because I was listening on YouTube coming down, and we only about half the time can understand what the attorney was saying.

But on the on how to do this with look back at when Luke Jensen resigned from the council.

There is a we filled out an application, which was the same application we used to serve on boards.

There were five of us who applied.

I was one of them to fill out the rest of Luke's term.

When it got done, it came back to the council.

The council nominated the people that they wanted to put forward.

After they did that, then they made a consult.

Made an agreement on who they were gonna sit.

There were five of us who put in our paperwork.

I would announce it tonight that you want to have papers in for the 20th.

So on the night of the 20th, you guys can by that point review or have these papers in front of you so you can review and vote at the first meeting in February, which is under your 30 days.

Otherwise, this position becomes a mayoratorial appointment.

You think it's unfair that seven of you would get to vote.

One of you getting to appoint someone is truly unfair.

Um other than that, I'm willing to tell you how it went with Luke's if anyone wants to ask me after the meeting.

So I'll be here.

Follow the charter.

Uh um uh one second before we have the next one.

We unfortunately have lost our timekeeper.

Madam Clerk, are you in a position to uh record people's time or or operate the computer as it turns out?

Um yes, I think we can um we're going to plan B for timekeeping.

Okay, uh please continue, sir.

Marcella Claire, board five.

So you this is not rocket science people, and you guys seriously, if you any of you are on social media whatsoever, right now, the opinion of this council is a cluster F clown show, is what they're reporting.

This is crazy.

Right now, you have counselor Martell that would like to nominate counselor soul, and you've had counselor long champs second it.

They are asking the attorney is yes or no.

Can this be done tonight?

It's not an opinion they're looking for, it's a yes or no question that they're looking to have answered.

That's it.

Thank you.

Further public comment.

Lisa Jones, Ward 2.

Again, my thoughts are not organized.

Um there's been talk up there about whether or not things are democratic and and and choosing someone would be undemocratic, and I just keep reflecting on the fact that someone was on the ballot that shouldn't have been there in the first place, and now we're no longer doing that investigation.

So if we had followed through with that investigation and had the proof that he was never valid to be on the ballot, then we had one valid candidate who received 230 votes.

I don't understand why you would want to open it back up.

Um Ren did the work to collect the signatures.

Rin campaigned, people voted for her.

I I really don't understand why you would even consider opening it up to the public and people who didn't choose to run for that seat previously.

Um Scott, you ran unopposed, so it doesn't you didn't win either.

So, like if Rin had been on the ballot alone, like she should have been your attorney's advice is inconsistent.

I mean, the word shall meant something different Monday night when I was the topic of discussion.

He's the one who told Cathy to let Osmond on the ballot because he intends to return back to 210 Blake.

It's still not an apartment.

This is a clown show, it's nationwide now.

Do the right thing, guys.

Come on.

For Madam Clerk, you are uh recording.

Yes, sir, we are thank you.

I appreciate you.

Please continue, sir.

I won't start, but I will continue.

Thank you.

Again, uh Matt Roy at Ward 6.

To uh Matt Agron's point, we don't have to.

We spent over two hours now.

Well, two hours now reinventing the wheel.

As Matt Agrin pointed out, there is a application for him currently, oh, which we haven't even advertised for the Ward 5 school committee uh vacancy yet.

We have that process.

We have uh as of December, we had a whole list of vacancies that you guys didn't haven't filled yet, or the mayor hasn't filled yet, even the two priority for the two vacancies that have existed for about a month now, since mid-December for the Board of Assessment Review, which will come very important come this spring when the assessment, the uh reval is completed, and uh the potential for multiple meetings, and there's only three valid members of that board currently.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel, and having this app well, it is Thursday night, city hall is closed tomorrow.

Uh last I checked, it is still within the rules and policies of the city council that uh requests for agenda items have to be in by noon on Wednesday, so the agenda can be formulated the PDF generated and posted by third by the end of business Thursday.

Um the 20th is probably not if we're gonna actually have an application people fill out applications.

That isn't feasible for the 20th.

Thank you.

Beth Matthews, Ward 3.

We do not need to sit here and decide what you're gonna do when you have a charter that every single one of you has taken an oath to uphold.

And Councilor Chitham, you mentioned that you wish you had not, and if that is truly how you feel, you should be stepping down and resigning.

I repeat Ward 5.

Mr.

Mayor, can I ask the city clerk a question?

Uh just continue with your comments and then we will uh uh address it afterwards.

I would like to know how many people actually applied for that position for Ward 5.

Was there four or five people and they just didn't qualify in time?

Or was there just the two of them and that was it?

If there's no if there's not enough people in ward five that I'm really willing to run and serve, you just spinning wheels.

That's all you do is spinning wheels and can end up costing the city money.

Thank you.

Further public comment.

Public comment is now closed.

Uh back to the council.

Did you have anything to add, uh, Mr.

Eisenstein?

No.

Coming in loud and clear, I appreciate it.

Madam Clerk, did you have anything at this point?

Okay.

No, thank you.

I would like to vote on this soon.

Uh is there any discussion among the council before we vote?

Counselorman.

If we could please restate the motion before we vote on it, that would be appreciated.

Thank you.

So the motion.

Absolutely.

Madam Clerk, if you could please restate the motion and then uh call the vote.

Yes, sorry, Mr.

Mayor.

The motion is to move to implement Section 2.06D of the City Charter.

Counselor from Ward 1.

Yes.

Ward 2.

Yes.

Ward 3.

Yes.

Ward 4.

Yes.

Ward 6.

Yes.

Ward 7.

Yes.

Mr.

Mayor.

Yes.

Motion pass by vote of 7-0.

Uh one one second, Counselor Longchamps.

Um we have now established that uh there's going to be an appointment process.

What is your recommendation for a motion now that follows uh Mr.

Eisenstein?

I think an appropriate motion, given the desire for transparency, is to request city staff to make recommendations to the council as to a quote process, close quote, for the council to follow, whether it's appointment of a person or whether it's taking applications, all of which should be done by a date certain so that the city council could then decide on a candidate on or before February 7th.

The date I would look to advice from the city con affirmed the city clerk and the city administrator as to how long it would take to report, the different methods, what your schedules are like, but that would be the general framework of a motion.

I agree completely.

Um would a counselor like to make such a motion.

Councillor or uh well, I said that I recognize you uh after that.

Is there anything you'd like to say, Counselor Long Champs?

Not about this right here.

But again, I I want to go back to what I've asked and still haven't gotten a clear path of anyone really acknowledging my question.

Do you mind speaking into the mic?

Acknowledging my question or which direction I go in.

You know, again, I would like to vote today to have our council or put back on ward five.

Voters have already voted.

I am prepared tonight to do that.

I understand our city attorney has advised us or or his personal opinion.

I I respect that.

But tonight I think we need to put our counselor back on Ward 5.

If it is impossible to do that, then I want it on an agenda.

I'd like it as an agenda item to nominate Rin Sol for Ward 5 Council.

Is that clear enough?

Thank you.

Counselor Longsham.

Counselor Chitam, did you have something?

Well, I was going to make the motion that was suggested by corporate council.

Um and that is to direct staff to recommend a process to City Council so that on January 20th, I believe is our next meeting.

Um this council will then take action on that recommendation.

Um that leaves enough time, I think, for uh final action by this council to be done within the 30-day period.

Um I think that suffices uh Mr.

Attorney Yeah, I think it does, given the fact and and you can incorporate Councillor Longchamps and Councillor Martell's preference, which is the alternative for the decision on the 20th is whether to go through and appoint uh the prior counselor to the position or to entertain applications to be prepared and provided to the city council on or before the end of the month with the notion that you would entertain those applications if you take the second route on or before the 7th of February.

I haven't looked at the calendar when the meeting is in February.

Uh so that is is that uh thank you, uh Mr.

Eisenstein.

Uh Counselor Chitham, is that a motion then?

Well, I certainly don't want to to preclude any other candidates.

I have no objection at all to Councillor Sol resuming this seat.

None whatsoever.

Um but I think that it's up to this council to look at all of the people who are interested.

Um we've had an election.

The election was won.

The individual has resigned.

The seat is open.

I think it's within the purview of this council, and I'd argue that even tonight, uh, albeit the agenda wasn't clear, to say we would like to reseat counselor soul.

However, I think that given the fact that the charter gives us 30 days to make this decision, given the fact that there is an opportunity for people to uh express their opinions to the city council, um, that it's appropriate that staff come back to us with a recommendation on the 20th of February, uh January, I mean, uh, as to how we proceed with selecting candidates for the Ward 5 position.

Thank you, Counselor Shitham.

So is is that just to be absolutely clear, is that a motion that you're uh willing to make?

If that motion comports with the city attorney's advice and is it sufficiently clear to staff, yes.

Mr.

Esenstein, are you Mr.

Mayor?

I'm so sorry to interrupt.

I do apologize.

Yeah, please continue, madam chair.

Yeah, Councillor Um Counselor Longchamps made a motion, but it didn't receive a second, and then counselor Chitam made a motion and it didn't receive a second.

So out of respect for counselor Longchamps, I I just wanted to sort of backtrack Mr.

Mayor or recommend that you backtrack because I believe and certainly Counselor Longchamps, please correct me, but I believe your motion, Counselor Longchamps, was to nominate to direct staff to put a motion on the January 20th agenda to appoint Rin Soul as the Ward 5 City Council.

That's exactly right.

Thank you, Counselor.

Thank you for touching that, Madam Clerk, and that has now been seconded.

Uh we will come back to you if necessary, Counselor Chidham.

Thank you.

Um can you we have a second, Councilor Martell?

I think we're we're mostly straight.

Discussion uh from the council on this uh motion.

Counselor Chidam.

Does this preclude any other candidates?

I'm not going to entertain any other counselors.

Well, he was asking me.

Sorry, go ahead.

I I think he was asking staff.

Well, he was looking at me.

So anyone who wants to answer the question through the through the chair, I think is the appropriate methodology.

Indeed, thank you.

Okay.

Madam Clerk, does this preclude other candidates?

Well, if the motion on the 20th is to appoint Rin Sol to the Ward 5 City Council seat, then I believe that motion could be amended and another name could be inserted if that's the wish of the council.

The motion obviously could be voted down.

I mean, once the motion is on the floor, it's within the control of the council.

And the council can decide to change that motion via amendment, vote it down, adopt it, however you decide to dispose of that amendment.

Understood, Madam Clerk.

Counselor Chairman, does that answer your question?

It does.

Thank you.

Excellent.

Counselor Harriman.

Thank you.

I am I'm not prepared tonight to install somebody to this seat.

I would prepare to see, I would I'm sorry, I would prefer to see at our meeting on the 20th that we hear from staff as to as to how we proceed with this with uh an application process, and then we have another meeting scheduled for February 3rd, which is still within the amount of time that we have to appoint somebody.

And then so at the 20th, we could uh introduce to the public the process that we're going to use.

They have two weeks to um to absorb that and to apply if they would like, and then on the third we could entertain whatever nominations counselors put forward uh and vote on them at that point.

Uh that's how I would prefer it to proceed.

Um that gives the public the most opportunity for input and for comment.

Um it doesn't it doesn't make this decision up to only a handful of people who do not live in the ward that is and in question.

Um it doesn't cut people out of a process because this meeting was called with only a handful of hours notice and um we only received the information a couple hours ago.

So I'd prefer something on the 20th, and then we can take a vote on February 3rd.

Counselor Nagyen.

So thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Uh there's a couple of pieces here.

One, uh this resignation and the following meeting that we're in right now.

Um very short notice.

On the fifth, uh, this hall was filled with uh people supporting um the person that they voted for who won the election, who has since resigned, and also supporting or or supporting uh the person who took the uh the second place position.

Um I'm not in any way, shape or form at this moment looking at this room thinking that this is a representation of ward five.

Um just want to point that out.

It's not.

Um and so um I'm not willing to uh go through the process um of picking a nominee today for a vote on the 20th without the opportunity to get feedback from Ward 5 residents.

Um I don't feel that we've had enough time, so I I I accept the process because we have to follow the charter.

Um and I and I and I'm asking for uh a window to get some feedback from the public because no matter how you look at this, this is an ugly process.

This whole thing has been an ugly process from the moment that uh that um the candidate who did was duly elected for the seat uh uh was uh um uh indicted for for weapons charges.

Uh everything's been difficult.

Um and there's no winning here at all.

So I think we should make it as transparent as possible.

Thank you.

Um uh counselor uh Martell, did you have something?

Yeah, I I we are um due to uh it's our job to uphold the charter.

I don't see in the charter, and correct me the any process laid out for the appointment, or that we have to take applications or anything else, and I think it's um disingenuous to think that someone that didn't do any of the petition collecting, any of the campaigning, didn't get any votes, and is now gonna come in at the last second and convince four people on this dais that don't live in ward five to elect them, and that's gonna be how they gain that seat.

I I don't want any part of that process either.

Right.

Uh if counselors could refrain from speaking when they're not recognized, thank you.

Uh counselor Chitam.

Um thank you.

Um I'm not certain why we have to have a report back from staff.

The the uh charter gives this council the authority to appoint.

If we simply request tonight that applications be submitted, we can review those applications.

We don't need to have uh uh a layout of process.

We can simply review those applications on the 20th.

Uh and if there is sufficient uh desire, we can make an appointment based on those applications on the 20th.

And as I said before, if that's counselor soul, I'm I'm perfectly happy with that.

But I do think that we need to um review anyone who is interested and take into consideration that the majority of Ward 5 voted for a candidate who has since resigned.

Um so I don't know that we need to have staff report back to us on a process.

I think if we simply announce tonight and have staff publicize that applications are being accepted for eligible candidates for city council for ward five, then we can receive those and take action uh as soon as the 20th of January.

Uh thank you.

Counselor Wong Champs, uh, did you have something?

No.

Okay.

Uh all right.

At this point, Madam Clerk, can you please uh reread the uh uh the motion?

Sure.

The motion is to direct staff to place on the January 20th agenda and the appointment of Rinsewell to fill the Ward 5 City Council seat.

Okay.

Uh at this point, counselors, we're gonna go to public comment and then we'll come back and then uh for more questions and discussions and then take a vote after that.

Public comment is now open.

Arcel Leclerc, Ward 5 again.

Evan Osman was not eligible to be on the ballot in the first place.

So you say that you want to hear from the Ward 5 voters, you have heard from the Ward 5 voters.

Had he not been on the ballot?

She would have run unopposed, just as Counselor Harriman did.

And I wouldn't expect him to take his eyes off of that computer screen and actually pay attention to constituents that are speaking that he's done all night long.

But again, you have heard from the ward five voters over and over and over.

And again this evening, you've I've heard Council Longchaps this last time around saying that she wanted to vote tonight.

And it was seconded, and they wanted to know if this was able to happen tonight.

A yes or no question.

And again, it gets skirted and uh it is an opinion.

It's not an opinion they're looking for.

It's a yes or no.

Can we vote on this this evening?

And I would urge every other counselor up there to vote her in.

Yes.

I have a question.

If you're gonna get accept applications for that position, do they have to get 50 signatures?

Does it have to be put in at the same time?

Or do they have a time period after they put the application in to get it?

So anybody answer that question?

Uh just continue with your question, then we will address the questions afterwards.

That is the question, Mr.

Mayor.

I I mean, sorry, uh continue with your speaking time if there's anything else you'd like to say.

Okay.

The question is if I went up there and I grabbed an application, would I have to go out and get 50 signatures to make that application valid?

Or would I just you know fill it out?

We will have staff address questions after public comment.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Hi, I'm Lisa Jones, but I don't want to speak on my own behalf at this moment.

I have public comment from a ward five business owner that I would like to read for the record.

I'm going, it's gonna be a tiny bit awkward because I'm going to read exactly what she wrote.

Good evening.

My name is Kimberly Craig, and I own a business in Ward 5 at 216 East Avenue Lewiston.

I am writing to urge all of you to unanimously vote tonight to support appoint Rin Sewell to her ward five seat.

She has more than proved herself to be an asset to the City of Lewiston and has worked very hard to be present for all the city residents, not just her ward five constituents.

She has worked well with all counselors and staff of the City of Lewiston.

She has been at all events and responds to the needs of her constituents in city.

In my opinion, she legally won her seat for a second term.

Months have gone by with nothing but bad press locally and nationally, and yet another bad mark on Lewiston.

It's very upsetting that any of this was allowed to happen in the first place, and it could have been prevented.

But here we are.

In order to restore trust and get ready to work and move forward, please vote to put Rin Soul back into the Ward 5 seat.

She has earned and deserves.

Let's move and get move on and get to work.

She's more than ready to continue what she has started here.

Lewiston needs her.

Thank you.

Beth Matthews, Ward 3.

Um, I've already said before that Rin's opponent was not valid.

He never should have been on the ballot.

His signatures alone draw questions.

And here we are talking about language that doesn't even exist in the charter while you're ignoring language that actually exists.

And it's painful to sit here and listen to you, argue semantics and not just semantics, but you're inventing language that doesn't exist so that it appeals to your own ideology.

And one point that I do want to point out for everybody to remember is that this is a nonpartisan charter.

So whatever your ideology is shouldn't even be on the table to begin with.

Matthew Egrin.

To answer Larry's question when we did Luke's, no, we didn't have to get 50 signatures.

We just had to fill out our application.

We had maybe a week, maybe two.

It went before the council.

They called the names of the people.

I did not get Luke's seat because I started on the appeals board and they were afraid it was going to be too hard to get me back on the appeals board at the time.

But I wasn't one of the candidates that was considered up there.

You could tonight announce your applications, get them on the 20th, make your decision on the 20th.

It's not that hard.

The already exists our what we used last time was the same thing we used to apply for boards in the city.

Not that difficult.

No need to reinvent the wheel tonight.

Or wait two weeks and reinvent the wheel.

Then you're pushing in February your 30 days.

Councilor Chinum, you had that right answer on that.

That was one of the things you did say correctly tonight.

The rest of it, I'll be honest, I'm very disappointed in your interpretation of the words.

Because you and I agree words matter.

Now whatever you do, let's wrap this up tonight.

If you have to schedule a special meeting next week, then let's do that next week.

But it is almost 8 30.

You guys have been here for two and a half hours.

Going in circles.

I know because I listened to you on YouTube on the way here.

You guys just can wrap this up tonight, figure out what you're going to do, and you all can go home and wait till the next meeting.

Hello again, Janet Bowden, Ward 2 and school committee wrap for Ward 2.

I wasn't going to speak again because I do not want to drag this out any longer.

I'm getting really tired.

But I just was hoping that tonight you all would make um the logical decision to throw Rin back on this council where she belongs so that next week, when or next meeting on the 20th, um, you can hopefully make a decision as to who you're appointing to our school committee.

Because the longer you wait to appoint somebody to this committee, it means the longer that we're waiting on the school committee for a full committee.

And we have orientation stuff to do, we have things that need to get done.

Um, and we are ready to go.

So I really, really implore you guys to make a decision already, please.

Further public comment.

Back to the council.

Anything?

Uh Councillor Martell, yes.

Um I would just like to reiterate that both um Councillor Longchamps and I have both asked for a vote tonight.

And I think if we did that and we got the four votes for Rin that it would make the rest of this uh move and we could move on.

And if it doesn't, then I suggest that we rapidly schedule for the 20th and put her name on as a nomination, and then if we need to take applications, we take applications, but we can put all this to bed tonight with four votes.

Uh Council Harriman.

Um yes, I I thought I'd address it for the public's clarification since it's come up twice now, but I did not run unopposed for this seat.

And my second point is that I am not prepared tonight to install someone in this in the ward five seat without any public process or notification for a vacant seat that is that is about 12 hours old.

Uh Counselor Nagyen.

So again, uh our first meeting on the fifth.

Um many people showed up to speak for um then councillor Osman.

Many people showed up to speak for then Councillor Osman.

Right now this morning, Councillor Osman resigned.

The vast majority of Ward 5 residents, I would bet don't even know that the representation that they elected is no longer there.

The opportunity to give some time and space to communicate to the public what is actually happening is incredibly important for transparency's sake.

That's one piece.

It's also not beyond my noticing that the chair of the Democrat uh the Republican Party uh for Lewiston is here, one of the candidates is here.

Um the uh uh main wire is here.

Um and so when we're talking about something being partisan or not partisan, um it certainly looks like uh there there is some partisan action there.

Um regardless.

I'm not willing to vote somebody in this evening.

There has to be a process that allows the ward five residents to know what actually happened.

Thank you, Counselor uh Najene.

I I do believe that uh in this meeting that was supposed to be uh discussing next steps, it would be premature to uh to select somebody.

Uh further comments before we vote.

Uh counselor chitam, yes.

Yes, please clarify what the motion is.

Uh Madam Clerk, again, if you could please read it.

Sure.

The motion is to direct city staff to place on the uh January 20th agenda the appointment of Rinsel to fill the Ward 5 City Council seat.

Anything further, Counselor Um Chitam?

No, sir.

Okay.

Uh final thoughts, Councillor Harriman.

Yes, I just I just want to ask fellow counselors to keep the public in mind, keep transparency in mind here.

Um we we've had issues as a city with transparency, and it seems to have been going backwards in the last several months or so.

And I would just ask that we make sure that we are working for the public here that they are allowed input on this decision, and that we just do not um immediately react and install someone in an empty seat that just became empty today.

Uh thank you.

Uh further comments before uh uh before we vote.

Madam Clerk, Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Counselor from Ward 1?

No.

Ward two?

Yes.

Ward three?

No.

Ward four?

No.

Ward six?

No.

Ward seven.

Yes.

Mr.

Mayor.

No.

Motion failed by a vote of two to five.

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Um Counselor Chitam, are you prepared to make your uh motion?

Well, if I can remember, yes, I am.

Uh I move that the we direct staff to make public announcement that applications uh for Ward 5 council seat are being received at the City Clerk's office uh effective immediately, and that we take action on this on the uh agenda item for uh I'm sorry on the agenda for January 20th.

Second.

Uh thank you, Counselor Najine.

Uh Counselor Chitam.

Uh do you see any uh problems with this motion, uh Mr.

Eisenstein?

Zero.

Okay.

Uh Madam Clerk, did you get all that?

I I did to direct staff to uh make announcements that the uh applications are being accepted for the ward five city council seat effective immediately.

Yes, thank you.

All right, uh discussion among counselors.

Um yes, counselor uh, I I believe um councillor Chitam's motion included a date in it.

Yes, I apologize, thank you.

And I'll and to include to have those applications for appointment on the January 20th agenda.

Thank you.

Sorry about that.

Thank you.

Thank you, counselors.

Uh we're now heading to uh public comment for this motion.

Matthew Akron, Ward 4.

I do only have one question.

How are you taking your applications?

Are you going to use the standard board appeal that what we use for boards, or you create a whole new packet, which the attorney has up there?

These things need you're gonna need to decide those tonight as well.

Thank you.

Marcella Claire, Ward 5.

I just wanted to add to that.

Uh is there going to be anyone that is going to verify addresses and uh the legitimacy of said applicants because you really dropped the ball on that last one?

Further public comment.

Back to the council.

Further discussion.

Uh yes, Councilor Nagy.

This is germane to the entire discussion, but not to the motion in front of us right now.

So I'm wondering, should we vote or should I mention this?

Yeah, well, we'll we'll vote and then we will we'll still have time before we adjourn.

Any any other comments uh from counselors?

Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Counselor from Word One?

Yes.

Word two?

Yes.

Word three?

Yes.

Word four?

Yes.

Word five.

I'm sorry, word six.

Yes.

Word seven?

Yes.

Mr.

Mayor.

Yes.

Motion passed by voter seven to zero.

Thank you very much, Madam Clerk.

Um Counselor Nadine, yes.

Um I would just ask that I know that staff has been under um quite a bit of stress due to all of the things that have been happening recently and the in in the publicity that's coming towards the city.

Um I do think it's important that we're clear about what this process is to the public and and and make it so that um so that it's as clear as possible for people to understand what's actually going on.

Um ultimately, you know, I think the expectations in the charter that aren't there um are an issue and and explaining why we're going through this process I think is important.

Um I just want to point that out.

And I already know that you're already um you know batting back reporters and uh and every other thing while you're trying to do your regular jobs, but as long as the message from City Hall is consistent that this is the process that we've adopted and it's and it's constitutional, uh it follows the charter and it makes you know sense.

I would appreciate it.

Um anything you would like to say, uh Madam Clerk?

Uh so just uh for clarification for folks that uh the application uh if the council wants to use the current application, the application link is on the website.

It's the same application that you've seen regarding planning board, finance committee, all of our boards and uh committees.

There is a section on there that applicants can state uh why they're interested in serving their experience and so forth.

So uh you can receive that.

As far as a deadline for the applications, if you want the applications in your agenda packet, which I'm assuming you do, the deadline will have to be Wednesday the 14th at 4 p.m.

So Wednesday, January 14th at 4 p.m.

will have to be the deadline because we will need to distribute the agenda packet on Thursday the 15th.

So it is a short turnaround time.

So if that's acceptable to you, I'm sort of stating that publicly now so folks realize that it's a very short window.

The city can work with or the city clerk's office can work with the communication director to get information out on social media and press release um as soon as possible so folks are aware.

Thank you.

Um Madam Clerk, uh a huge uh shout out to our communication director who's audience.

Uh yes.

And I'll just add that as soon as possible.

Can be as early as tomorrow morning or tonight as far as getting getting word out.

Yes, I mean we're we're currently getting word out as we speak.

I'm just saying it's not going to be until next week that something is going to be.

We understand the staff will move uh uh speedily, understood.

Um I see no problem with using the application that's already online, and I think uh by next Wednesday uh makes a lot of sense.

Um Counselor Long Champs.

Yes.

Sorry.

I would just like to thank our city attorney uh for all the advice that he gave tonight.

Um I really do appreciate it.

I'd also like to thank um John from the Maine Wire for being here.

And I would also like to apologize to the audience for what one of our counselors said about the Republican Party.

I think that's very unfair.

I think it um Yes.

I don't think it was right to point people out.

And I'm I'm starting to wonder what uh what is agenda is.

Thank you.

Counselor uh Chittham, did you have something?

Yes, I did.

Um I'm wondering, given the constraints, which frankly I had forgotten about of uh the Wednesday before the Tuesday, whether the council feels that having a deadline um six days hence is sufficient.

And I would like to actually poll the poll the council to see whether six days is enough or whether there is an interest in holding perhaps a special meeting uh the week after the 20th, which would be the 27th.

Uh okay.

Thank you.

Um Madam Clerk, there's no um we would have to re-vote because uh the motion was pretty like clear, correct?

Uh the motion included the date of the 28th.

Right.

Okay.

Um I mean I'll start first.

I'm I'm I I understand that the timeline is accelerated, but I'm okay with that.

Um yes, counselor um G.

So one thing just to answer your question really quickly.

Um I think that the six-day window is fine.

It's true that you know what we're looking at right now is um uh some disarray here for sure.

Uh and the quicker we get this done, the better.

I would also say that this was a point that was brought up about uh ranked choice, which was interesting, and also some of our charter flaws.

You know, there is a possibility that maybe we talk about um if somebody steps down or is removed, the second person that is elected takes that position, right?

If it's in the charter, it makes sense.

Whatever, however, we work this out so that it so that there's a process that's clear.

The issue that we have right now is that there was an elected official this morning who's gone, and so therefore, if we're appointing somebody tonight, that is wild as far as it is representation or or communication and transparency is for that uh for that ward.

Thank you.

Um if uh audience members could please refrain from speaking, thank you.

Um Council Herman, did you have something?

No.

No.

Okay.

Uh I at this point um and and just looking around the table, uh everything's fine with the timeline for people.

I think we're good, mostly good.

Uh uh Council Herman, do you have something now?

Yeah, I I would comment on the timeline.

I think it's a little a little quick.

I had forgotten about the uh the the applications needed to be in the agenda packet, but um I mean I I will accept a six-day window over a several hour window of notification to the public um count or sorry uh Madam Clerk, is there anything that you need uh further for us in terms of current clarification or next steps?

Or administration.

Anything else we need to add some other questions?

No, I don't believe so.

Thank you, sir.

Yeah, okay.

Um Mr.

Eisenstein, uh anything you'd like to add before you wrap this up?

Yeah, I I I just wanted to follow up City Council President's comment about moving the date by which things in the packet need to be out to the city council.

I don't know how immutable that date is.

In other words, can you say Friday is the date for uh the last date for getting the stuff in the package?

I don't know.

I'm just asking the question.

No.

I I would be happy to answer that.

Um we are now closed on Fridays, and so the packet used to come out on Friday, and it now comes out on Thursday.

And so all the deadlines moved up a day.

Does that yeah, I I mean it is uh logistical at this point.

So uh one other thing, just for the sake of the record, I do have a bunch of these forms, and I've looked at the forms, they seem perfectly reliable, so you can go with the forms which are on the website and get applications from people.

The what you're holding right now is that simply a printout from the website, Madam Clerk.

Okay, so if somebody would like a a paper copy right this second, they can get one after the meeting, or they can fill it out online.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um final thoughts from counselors, and thank you for everything.

Um yeah.

Oh, and uh I got uh interrupted, but um Director Morris, thanks for all of your help.

Um Counselor Chitam, yes.

Yes, I just want to point out that the deadline is established in council rules, and I suspect that if the council wished to extend the deadline by a day, it would severely inconvenience city staff, but is in within the power of the council to do that.

I'm not so yeah, thank you for that, and I appreciate you bringing that up, but I I am not suggesting uh we we do that.

Um further thoughts before we call it a night.

Counselors, um yeah, I sometimes things take uh the time that they take.

I appreciate everyone's feedback.

Thank you very much.

Appreciate the audience's feedback.

Uh Mr.

Eisenstein, you you've been fabulous.

Uh and staff and Madam Clerk, thank you very much.

Um Madam Clerk, do uh do we need a motion to adjourn?

Uh you can have a motion or you can uh yes, a motion to adjourn.

Yeah, okay.

I would like to a motion to adjourn.

Counselor Chitam.

So moved.

Uh Counselor Shitham, second by second.

By Counselor Nagyene.

Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Counselor from Ward 1?

Yes.

Ward two?

Yes.

Ward three?

Yes.

Ward four.

Yes.

Ward six.

Yes.

Ward seven.

Yes.

Mr.

Mayor.

Uh yes.

Motion passed by seven to zero.

Uh thank you all.

Good night, Lewis and the first one.