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Record of Proceedings

Historic Preservation Commission Meeting - 2026-02-02

City Council Archive ViewMonday, February 2, 2026
BodyMarietta, Georgia
SessionCity Council Archive View
DateMonday, February 2, 2026
StatusFILED
Video Record
0:00 / 43:46

Transcript — Verbatim
0:00

I like the instructors a lot.

0:01

Okay.

0:06

Alright, I'm going to call the meeting of the historic preservation commission to order the um first item or the minutes from last meeting.

0:21

Make a motion to approve.

0:22

All right.

0:23

Second.

0:24

Any other discussion?

0:27

All those in favor?

0:30

Okay.

0:30

Okay, we just have the one item tonight, 245 Forest Avenue.

0:35

We have our Forest Avenue representatives here, uh David Brown and Janice Hoover.

0:40

And I'd also like to point out that Councilman Carlisle Kent is here tonight.

0:46

So Councilman Kent, thank you for coming.

0:50

With that, I'll call up who's gonna speak.

0:54

Courtney, yeah.

0:55

Okay.

0:56

All right.

0:56

Well well, as he's coming up, let me just explain what happened.

0:59

Uh everybody remembers we approved this project, and the application that we had had had limited demolition.

1:07

So between the time that we approved it and they got their building permit started construction, there was a lot more demolition than what was in our application.

1:18

And the city when the city building inspector determined it was more than they had permitted and issued a stop work order on the project.

1:27

So they're here tonight to explain what transpired, and then we'll have a discussion and the when there's an application that for demolition, we can't approve it.

1:39

We can only make a recommendation to the city council.

1:42

City council has to approve it.

1:44

So once we hear everybody out, I think there's some neighbors that want to speak as well, and we'll have a discussion and make a recommendation that would go to the city council, but we can't take an official app action on the application.

1:58

And we've already approved the original one.

2:00

So with that that's pretty much the summary.

2:03

I've uh reached out to all of you, spoken to most of you, I think.

2:07

Uh so that that's basically it.

2:09

We came through uh HBC, uh, I think first submission in uh September and then approval in October.

2:15

We filed for building permit a month after that uh in November.

2:20

Uh we were approved for building permit with no comments, and basically the month between uh HBC approval and building permit submission, uh myself, the general contractor, and structural engineer continued to coordinate and revise the drawings for construction beyond just the historic uh preservation committee meetings.

2:41

It was just it was determined that in adding the second story, the existing foundations were not going to support uh what we were doing.

2:48

This is a letter from our structural engineer uh here on the screen.

2:51

I'm not sure if you guys got this today.

2:53

Um the demo and the permit plans reflects that, and that is what was approved, and that's what we're following.

3:02

Uh if we talked, I told you on the phone, you know, it maybe looks like uh, you know, at best we tried to deceive you and it works outright lie to you.

3:10

Neither is the case uh in in that regard.

3:14

Uh it was just the advancement of the the drawings in order for you know to go in for permitting.

3:18

And so uh I think when we were here, both trips, neither time did we really discuss the demolition uh at that point.

3:26

And so it wasn't um honestly it wasn't even on my radar making the drawings to come back to discuss something that we hadn't discussed in the initial submission.

3:38

So uh that's that's basically it.

3:40

Boy, and Kate Clemen are the owners, they're here.

3:43

Um so yeah, that's that's where we are.

3:47

I have uh a couple questions as well.

3:49

Let me ask.

3:50

Um, the eventual project, whatever it gets coarse between being here and the the state now in the end point of this, it will look like the renderings that we approved.

4:03

Yes, sir.

4:04

Okay, so it will end up looking like we approved.

4:07

Correct.

4:08

Okay, um that's the most important question I can ask.

4:11

Uh the another thing is in terms of the demolition, uh, is and what uh what if you can show a picture of the sticks if you will of the just the framing that's there.

4:23

That picture there.

4:25

Uh is it any different what I'm looking at than it would otherwise have been without the structural problems?

4:33

It was is this how it would look uh your plan or what else was demolished that you didn't plan on?

4:40

Um that's a good question.

4:42

Uh I I I don't think much.

4:44

You know, I mean but the because the point is so the existing bricks that you can see in this photograph, it's a single wife brick uh with non continuous foundations underneath of it, and so that's what we went and looked to verify.

5:00

Uh and so it doesn't have a continuous footing under underneath of that single wall of brick.

5:03

So I don't know that my drawings specifically say tear down this brick wall, but we have structural engineering drawings which design new foundations.

Discussion Breakdown — Share of Meeting
Historic Preservation█████████████████████████████████████████████82%
Procedural████████14%
Zoning and Land Use██4%
Summary of Proceedings

Historic Preservation Commission Meeting - 2026-02-02

The Historic Preservation Commission (HBC) convened to address an unplanned deviation at 245 Forest Avenue, where the project has undergone significantly more demolition than the limited demolition approved in October. Due to unanticipated structural deficiencies in the existing foundations required to support the approved second-story addition, the City Building Inspector issued a stop-work order. The HBC clarified that because the demolition scope now exceeds the originally approved application, the board lacks the jurisdiction to grant official approval for the full demolition and must instead forward a recommendation to the City Council. The meeting focused on hearing the developer's explanation, addressing community concerns regarding historic preservation guidelines, and determining a path forward to fulfill the approved final project while minimizing historic fabric loss.

Consent Calendar

  • Approved the minutes from the previous meeting by unanimous vote.

Public Comments & Testimony

  • Danny Brooks (Resident, 245 Forest Avenue neighbor): Expressed that his concern is strictly about adherence to historic preservation guidelines, not the homeowners. He argued that while he anticipated the need for structural work, he did not expect "complete demolition" to the footprint of the house (including the loss of the fireplace and brick walls) to be permitted under the "limited demolition" guidelines. He lamented the loss of historic architecture, stating the house is now gone and the remaining brick will be removed. He emphasized that the community values historic structures for their integrity, not just their appearance, and warned that tearing everything down and rebuilding to look old creates a "Disneyland" effect rather than a true historic community.
  • Carol Vienn (Resident, Forest Hills resident of 42 years): Strongly disagreed with the approach of total demolition and reconstruction. She argued that keeping original features (like original plaster walls, fireplaces, and interior history) is vital for maintaining the character of the neighborhood for future generations. She expressed disappointment that the structural issues were not identified earlier and warned that simply rebuilding to look old without preserving the actual historic fabric fails the mandate of the Commission, creating a fake historic environment rather than preserving a true historic community.
  • Peter Vienn (Resident, husband of Carol Vienn): Expressed concern regarding the precedent of tearing down an entire structure without prior comprehensive approval, recalling a past event where a neighboring structure was demolished overnight, leaving an empty lot. He questioned why the plan was not scrutinized more closely initially to determine if the structure could have been maintained and argued that significant demolition should never happen without the Board's acknowledgment. He requested that any retained elements be taken into consideration to reflect the building's original state.

Discussion Items

  • David Brown & Kate Clemen (Project Owners/Representatives): Explained that the increased demolition was due to the discovery that the existing single-wythe brick walls lacked continuous footings necessary to support the approved second story. They assured the Commission that the final project will look exactly like the renderings originally approved. They characterized the situation as an advancement of structural engineering drawings and permitting requirements, not a deception or bad faith, noting that the foundation issue was not on their radar during the initial HBC review.
  • Commission Members: Discussed the inherent tension between historic preservation guidelines and a property owner's right to improve a structure to make it livable and structurally sound. Members debated the definition of "limited" versus "full" demolition and the lack of a mechanism to stop demolition once it is underway. Several members noted that the HBC's charge is to review appearance and neighborhood fit, not structural engineering, but expressed frustration that the structural reality was not known until after construction began.
  • Proposed Mitigation: The Commission discussed the need for a structural engineer's letter to be a mandatory part of any future application for a second-story addition to identify foundation issues before demolition occurs. Members also discussed the need for better communication with neighbors earlier in the process if structural surprises arise to avoid a "third step" of approval.

Key Outcomes

  • Referral to City Council: The Commission determined it cannot take official action to approve the additional demolition as the City Council has the final authority on demolition applications that exceed original permits. The matter is referred to the City Council for a decision on how to proceed.
  • Resolution Passed: A motion to adopt a resolution was made and carried unanimously (seconded). The resolution directs that the City Council take all comments and discussions from this hearing into consideration when deciding the next steps. The Commission recommends the project be completed as envisioned to fulfill the original approval, provided necessary structural work is done, while urging the City Council to consider methods to retain whatever historic fabric remains.
  • Future Directive: The Commission members agreed to suggest to future applicants that a structural engineer's assessment be required prior to the approval of any second-story additions to prevent similar unanticipated foundation issues.

Meeting Transcript

I like the instructors a lot. Okay. Alright, I'm going to call the meeting of the historic preservation commission to order the um first item or the minutes from last meeting. Make a motion to approve. All right. Second. Any other discussion? All those in favor? Okay. Okay, we just have the one item tonight, 245 Forest Avenue. We have our Forest Avenue representatives here, uh David Brown and Janice Hoover. And I'd also like to point out that Councilman Carlisle Kent is here tonight. So Councilman Kent, thank you for coming. With that, I'll call up who's gonna speak. Courtney, yeah. Okay. All right. Well well, as he's coming up, let me just explain what happened. Uh everybody remembers we approved this project, and the application that we had had had limited demolition. So between the time that we approved it and they got their building permit started construction, there was a lot more demolition than what was in our application. And the city when the city building inspector determined it was more than they had permitted and issued a stop work order on the project. So they're here tonight to explain what transpired, and then we'll have a discussion and the when there's an application that for demolition, we can't approve it. We can only make a recommendation to the city council. City council has to approve it. So once we hear everybody out, I think there's some neighbors that want to speak as well, and we'll have a discussion and make a recommendation that would go to the city council, but we can't take an official app action on the application. And we've already approved the original one. So with that that's pretty much the summary. I've uh reached out to all of you, spoken to most of you, I think. Uh so that that's basically it. We came through uh HBC, uh, I think first submission in uh September and then approval in October. We filed for building permit a month after that uh in November. Uh we were approved for building permit with no comments, and basically the month between uh HBC approval and building permit submission, uh myself, the general contractor, and structural engineer continued to coordinate and revise the drawings for construction beyond just the historic uh preservation committee meetings. It was just it was determined that in adding the second story, the existing foundations were not going to support uh what we were doing. This is a letter from our structural engineer uh here on the screen. I'm not sure if you guys got this today. Um the demo and the permit plans reflects that, and that is what was approved, and that's what we're following. Uh if we talked, I told you on the phone, you know, it maybe looks like uh, you know, at best we tried to deceive you and it works outright lie to you. Neither is the case uh in in that regard. Uh it was just the advancement of the the drawings in order for you know to go in for permitting. And so uh I think when we were here, both trips, neither time did we really discuss the demolition uh at that point. And so it wasn't um honestly it wasn't even on my radar making the drawings to come back to discuss something that we hadn't discussed in the initial submission. So uh that's that's basically it. Boy, and Kate Clemen are the owners, they're here. Um so yeah, that's that's where we are. I have uh a couple questions as well. Let me ask. Um, the eventual project, whatever it gets coarse between being here and the the state now in the end point of this, it will look like the renderings that we approved. Yes, sir. Okay, so it will end up looking like we approved. Correct.

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