Alright, I'm gonna call the meeting of the historic preservation commission to order the first item or the minutes from last week.

It isn't here yet.

We only have that one application.

I have a couple of guys from Kennestown State University tonight some students.

I mean um this um Miss Christ.

I knew her when she was next lost or something.

And um we're gonna have a new member at our next meeting to replace Becky um Judy Renthroom, who's been appointed by councilman since she's on the agenda for the next meeting.

And she'll be here if any of you know her.

She's active in the ramble, you probably know her.

So that'll be good.

And then I guess if you need it to figure out to do something to recognize Becky for other years of service, I think it'd probably be appropriate to do that at a council meeting.

As opposed to here, unless somebody'd rather have it here, I don't know.

Would you take care of that?

Yeah, yeah.

Uh let's see what else.

Anybody else have to take a program.

Yeah.

What's that?

Yeah, I think it looks like three um.

Yeah, you do in your own.

Oh, yeah.

So I need to catch the sunlight.

Sounds like it's a little bit.

What's the name?

So you do it.

Yeah, go to our stuff.

I think it's one of those copy.

Yeah, okay, that's not necessarily functional.

Oh, yeah.

Joe, did you find that I think you can hear it?

Okay, let's go ahead and start in the application.

The applicant's not here, but um Joe said we could hear it.

I I think everybody knows the details, but I hit the last meeting.

I can't even remember, but in originally remember there was a stop work order on the project because they were doing work without a permanent without approval, they came in.

That was where they painted the brick.

It came in here and um we authorized them to continue working with the new application, and what's happened is that the windows that they installed were not appropriate, and they said they would replace things in light kind, and I believe the windows I put in or fine on the windows that existed would.

So the city issued another stop work order, so that's where we're at now, and they've submitted an application requesting that they be allowed to keep the vinyl windows they installed.

Well, yes, the press is a good thing.

Well, we've got that looking to look at it.

They are looking to be around the state.

They're not here, they're there's several representatives in the community.

Do you want to hear from them before we have one question?

One question, did we say light cleaner?

Do we say wood?

Because that raises for me.

I mean, vinyl is if it looks like it.

I know we don't have vinyls.

It looks like wood, but it's not light.

So it becomes a semantic thing.

Well, I think it says like material.

It's very light, but they failed with both.

Uh I think that's the question to tell in terms of I think this is a place for discussion from me and everybody, whoever else, in terms of what could be addressed in the COA without the mirror.

Or is there some priorities of some sort?

You don't have to act on it.

It's it's discretionary with you as to whether or not you want to get them.

Well, uh think about uh yeah, it's productive.

But so you know, it would say we're the realm of this imagine potentially.

But yes, if I understand.

Yes, but we just have easy.

Yeah, yeah.

You need to open it up for public hearing, and then you all can discuss with them do you want to start out?

I've got another question.

For example, these guys are not flight with us every time you die.

All the future materials that we can tell.

But what accepted me, what needs to happen is um you need the chair will open this up for the public hearing, at which point if they were here, he would be allowed to present his case.

Um apparently he's not here, and so then the chair will allow the residents to want to weigh in to do that.

And then once they've done that, the public hearing will be closed, and then the chair will open it up to discussion among the members.

And when that happens, that would be an appropriate time for you to discuss.

David, I did for his portion of the letter that he says here.

He said, First and foremost, we sincerely apologize for any misunderstanding regarding the window material requirements.

Our intention was to match the existing windows as closely as possible in appearance.

We installed white windows with grants to reflect the same style and visual character of individual windows.

However, we now understand that the requirement was not only to match the design, but also to use the exact approved material.

At the time of the installation, we believe we were inclined with the approved plans based on similarity and appearance.

Unfortunately, we did not realize that the material specification required an exact match.

All windows in the home have now been fully installed in vinyl.

I'd like to, since you brought that up.

Well, let's let two.

I'm not two to one flyer.

Thank you.

Last time you're here, yeah.

Close the game.

But we have a good second game.

I appreciate when they're doing good work and I don't want to spend the speaker with the thing.

Oh, right after the record before that windows.

And this is a house.

It was built by one or one center of life.

She was a record or white change from most of the animal.

And also one of the decisions would windows.

Something else 50,000 pounds was possible building as working on the channel.

They started it without any programs and windows.

And now we've got the windows and look at the original.

It was insane for World War II.

And it kept its way through the Pacific.

And if you end up after the war was over spanning ships, we were all tight and things like that.

It was a World War.

No buildings.

And 1950s were sort of a state.

The war's over we can do something canceled now.

That's why that's part of our neighborhood.

And this is a 22.

Including the wood materials.

Which is what we're saying, that's sort of where I had things.

I don't like it, take off thank you.

My name is Lars the Drop, I love it 262, so we'll drive five doors down from this property.

And I just want to express three very specific technical objections that from an architectural and architectural casting standpoint, one should have two ones being done to the subject at the moment.

Um returned former partner and local architecture frame because I have some background speakers.

Um first the windows.

Those, as Jim said, were I managed one to session with individual piece of glass all separated by an old wooden stripes.

And it's very important that you see the shadow line of each individual piece of glass, and it's a shadow of the depth of the section.

Um, and that's actually the critical part of batching in common from the historical perspective.

You can do that with a lumina window, file window or still window to several different applications.

None of which are represented here.

Those windows are cheapest lowest grades, people budget windows you can get.

And they do not have properly separated buttons between the pieces of glass, it's a single piece of glass button.

Well, actually, I guess it's an easily glass, but the plastic bar inside the gun sort of looks like televisions and uh unit.

Oh, but they don't shadows and from a historic perspective actually completely.

I've actually personally had projects where those sort of replacement windows were denied by the state of Georgia.

Um we had to spend the free.

The correct windows are expensive.

Uh from the from personal experience what happened or something similar.

Um at the time, that size window is 500 mile of seven or eight hundred and one.

The correct one was one sixty percent more.

I imagine this is the same today.

So from a historic perspective, the plastic windows or whatever you can be there, is run over there, correct.

And it's all about cannabis that you see.

And you can actually very easily see it if you look at the back window next to it, have a completely different appearance.

That's very interesting.

The second objection is to uh what used to be the sleeping ports you can see on the left half the image here when they rebuilt that.

Um they didn't build a porch to build the room.

And they first noticed that when they saw that the floor was being flat when those float battles.

If you would have an exterior porch, even with a screen, you would build a floor result buttons all the rounding right now.

And that made me suspect that maybe you weren't intending to recreate that the currents that you see here.

Um the second objective to that porch is you see how the roof is tucked in under the Eve of the main roof of the house.

That makes it subordinate to that as a porch should be and what they've built here not only actually meets up with the EV because they call it a little bit high, which is a nasty roofing condition.

I don't really know how to intend to fix it.

I wouldn't want to be able to get the leak.

Um in any event, I think if you intend to enforce a uh historic preservation uh guidelines for this second or I think uh can do better than checking either.

Any questions?

You had three, I think you went through two.

I'm looking for the third one.

No, the first objection was the windows.

So the West is free.

Forge buildings and reports, and I third was the remote.

So I've been doing more than that was uh removed recently.

I haven't been purely subject speculative.

I think that was actually added later.

I think the porch is that existing now is is probably fine as far as historic correctness, but the weather without the right.

Anyone else want to speak?

So I'm saying would you please give me a last name again, please?

Um F-I-N-D-E-R-E-P.

Yes, we're Right.

So I'm taking more interesting roof to be extension if you're actually above the existing roof.

So the water doesn't water has to go up here.

So you can see that from water.

Not that big.

Yeah, come on.

Just uh just to clarify from the board as people come up and talk.

Um it's usually better if you'll hold your questions until everyone's spoken, and then the chairman can call on you to call individual members back up.

That just makes it a little more nice.

And my name is Dawn Day.

And I've been in T 12 for here.

I have a slightly different, I think, perspective to offer the Jim or Laura State.

Um but from my perspective, and having watched this whole thing over the last several months, um, and given the history of what's happened and the fact that this is the third stop work order, it would seem to me that the owner is operating under the premise of it's better to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission.

I think if he was truly conscientious and thoughtful about trying to do the right thing by the historic preservation guidelines and the neighborhood and house, if there had been any question about what like kind means as it was regards those windows or for anything else, yes, as Lars Lars mentioned, and probably a lot of you maybe know already.

Windows are an expensive thing.

I think that I would have wanted to reach out and ask for clarification on exactly what design kind before I went to the expense of buying and installing all the wrong windows.

Um I think bottom line for me is this.

I don't know who all in this room and on the board um voted in favor of the church charity historic district.

I would think anybody up there would be in favor of it because you're up there.

If we're gonna have guidelines, I absolutely believe you have to enforce the guidelines.

And if you're not going to enforce them, don't help.

Because I think this is a precedent-setting issue, which would allow the next toolowner who wants to do something that is an opposition to the guidelines to say, yeah, but you let them do it in 22 seminal, or you let them do, you know, something different.

You made an exception for them, make an exception for me.

That's all I got.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Hello, I'm Jim Berklee with Ad 191 for your kind of diagonal.

So I can see this property from my house.

Um my neighbors have done such a wonderful job already.

I don't have their credentials of large house.

Thank goodness that he's here to point out all the um all the details for us, but um, and I appreciate Jim that I know has been here and spoken with you all extensively and for all these um hearings.

But um, like John said, I would just ask that you would continue to have hold the guideways.

We live in Marietta because we love our properties, we love the history of our homes, and we want to preserve it if we allow you know anybody to come in and tear down a house or you know, flip it or add you know, whatever they want to it, we won't have that anymore.

So I just thank you all for hearing us for considering it, and um ask them to replace them because they are nowhere near what they need to be.

And actually, our home prior to um, I guess it's 2016, I think is what our district was for.

So in 2015, we actually did a renovation on the front of our house that included um closing a screen porch, and we use the wood windows.

They are not cheap, but they're the proper material and they preserve the look and the details of the house.

So it has to just like Laura's pointed out.

I mean, I think they actually you read in the letter they said they'd replaced all the windows.

You can see they have not.

It's probably I don't know, done half the windows, I would say.

Some of them are still missing.

Some of them have broken panes.

So it's pretty unsightly how it's been left.

Um really, I think they actually stopped before the stop work order was issued.

It had already been sitting sort of unfinished like this with open windows replaced in the broken back.

So anyway, thank you.

I think I think Carol, you're gonna stay.

Okay.

And I just had one question.

And I just I I looked today and I couldn't find anything for their state or national guidelines that are often like Spanish, because it seems like there are a lot of strange people working on these storms.

I just wondered.

Oh no, that's a good question.

Okay.

Carol, you're addressed again on frame.

We're sure frame.

You're eight, two foot for air dry.

Thank you.

And I'd like to thank all of you very much for coming in, because you know you're really the you're the ones that voted on the guidelines, and I think it's our responsibility to you to make sure they're enforced.

So again, thank you for watching what goes on in the neighborhood, and thank you for coming here tonight and speak.

And with that, I'll turn it over to discussion.

If you want to start today, yeah, I don't want to thank you, uh, all my neighbors.

I uh I live on Church Street in the story coming, uh, this isn't in my district.

Uh we have trying to apply some consistent publication throughout all the arguments, but uh I have a personal perspective about it as well.

I want to thank Jim as well for your uh uh watch dog effects and Lars for your professional insight.

And I I I would like to share my thanks to you, and that I think we have a lot of common agreement about judging what's happened and maybe what should happen now.

So I think it'll feel uh proper about what we well, I think we're about to say and do.

Um I've been troubled by the uh process uh this application.

Uh the bank, obviously, something was not approved.

We got them to dig it off and did a good job.

Thank you, Jim, for being honest about that.

That was good.

But in the letter itself, uh I'm just troubled about the um how this is being handled.

They say at the time installation, we believe we were complying with approved plans as if there was something else they already had figured the dancer out.

And then they said, no, that's not the answer.

The answer's in solid vinyl, which is the wrong answer to a wrong question.

I mean, it just doesn't make sense to me how this is written.

Um so it it's tempting to say we are attentive to details and it don't look like you were at all.

If you looked at it, I don't think you would have written this.

So there's there's not a I have trouble with just the knowledge of content of that.

Also, uh agree, there's a very student observations about the brick.

This home was built originally, and then there was an add-on that's where the porch stands.

And it's not a perfect world of how you deal with it.

It's there now.

You know, it supports what was I guess a sleeping porch with a roof line if you know still be absurd.

And so um what's the best way to count to live on is probably leave it alone.

The other option would be if it was a bigger project is to paint the whole house.

So you have the enhancement of the living space plus the appearance that couldn't consist along.

I think oh, for that rises to that on the same year.

So I think you probably have a brick mismatches in the loan.

The top part was not approved.

That was never, you know, uh the defects with this application would paint the brick when that was unapproved, and closing the porch that wasn't approved, and using vinyl or whatever other material than what you said you were going to use.

It could have been what it could have been aluminum or it could have been whatever.

But they didn't do what they said they're going to do, or when we wouldn't shoot talking about it.

So, you know, this we I would think, David, you know, we'd need to, if we don't approve it, it needs to come out.

And uh I'd truly try to be open on materials as a key consideration, if not the only one, and Paris, I think it's a dominant one.

So how does it look if you shadow lines and everything else that you mentioned?

And do it, and it needs to be approved.

And that uh I am bullying to surprise that I'm not happy with the final windows.

Uh what appears to be the low-cost immediate uh uh uh investment turnover mentality.

People who are not gonna be living in the home and make the investment decision spend a lot more for real wood or for a high-grade composite or something else.

But that's not what's happening here because that's just a pure investment decision.

And uh they can probably make it, I thank you for being alert to that.

Because without that we wouldn't be here.

Also to co-enforcement.

So that that a stop to something that needed to be stopped and talked about.

So uh for whatever other reasons there are, that has not been approved and it doesn't look good.

It fails in pairs as bad.

And that the other thing is that if we if that roof line, if that enclosure's not approved, we need to be if we're gonna approve, we need to approve it, or we need to disapprove it because it's not been addressed yet, correct?

The enclosure of the board for the wood part you see that's not been uh was never approved.

Right.

Y'all have never approved it.

So, you know, we got some important things to consider about giving instruction about where we force them to change what they've done without permission.

And it's uh I heard the argument.

I think that the argument is back thinking for coming to permission.

Well, we I don't live that way either.

So that's not going to work.

I mean, and I believe that to be reasonable, we have to make some type some hard calls and some judgment, but uh some things we don't.

Um you didn't do what you said you're gonna do with the lowest grade thing that doesn't look like in the house.

And so I think it's just it just fails the appearance outright.

Uh and so I would well that's what I think.

Um I think we've been tagged around by this contract or by this phone audience since it start.

We have nine room.

Uh we we have the authority for competent to carry that to start from scratch, or then it has to be a city council.

We don't have the authority, but the uh the city building inspector maybe.

But the way the the way that process, if you were to do that, the way that process would work, and I'm not prejudging, I don't have a vote.

If y'all deny this, then the city deals with the ramifications of that.

Y'all don't actually have y'all obviously are not actually out there enforcing it, but you make a decision.

If you decide to deny the application, then it stands denied, and unless they appeal in a timely way that the city and the code enforcement folks actually deal with a in terms of how they come into compliance.

So in terms of the history of this thing, about the um to do wrong again, is I think that we have to be careful about telling them what they have to do.

And that'll propose.

Yeah, you don't want to be designing it yourself.

And by with him, whoever, and having gotten it for another third time.

Well, what are my do's and don'ts?

Typically, what I see with many of the local governments that I represent is when you get into a situation like this, and sometimes hopefully before you get into a situation like this, with a contract from the developer, whoever makes an effort to sit down with the appropriate officials with the jurisdiction to say, hey, this is what I'm looking at doing.

Is this the sort of thing that y'all feel comfortable with, that sort of thing?

That it always works better when people do that.

Can't make them do that.

But at any point, we see that in particular, but also with us.

This is going down to the point of need to see it to believe it before you do it.

And that to say, I won't tell you what to bring, but I need to see it before you do it.

Well, you need a description of that.

Yeah, here we say the way that would work would be though, um, of course it depends on what y'all decide to do tonight, but if they were to apply for something else, they would have to go through the process just like everybody else does.

I think, and I may not be hearing you correctly, what what I would caution you about is you don't want to get involved and design the project because you are a quasi-conditional body and you have to hear the applications that come in.

And there's always tension there about what do you want to go out and look at the thought site before you hear the application?

Some lawyers will tell you absolutely not.

Everything that you consider needs to come from this podium right here in technical legally correct way to do it.

I'm realistic enough to know that probably all of us have ridden by and seen this.

That's fine.

But in terms of actually engaging with the applicant, really that all needs to happen here on the record in the film.

Well, I think I would I'm just curious.

You did a great answer, but it also is the focus we should have basically rehearsing for a remote to make, and how or general would it make the thing?

So that we need to think, apparently and I was thinking this as well, to say focused on the application, the denial or not, and things really have to evolve on their own path that we can predict.

I think what happened there when they first came in and said they were going to replace everything as we like, we took them at their word.

I mean, they didn't have any plans or anything.

It was just a description, we took them away for salesman drawings and didn't include any changes to the knowledge.

So maybe it's a lesson to this when somebody comes in, and we need to get more detail, maybe we don't just approve because somebody said they're gonna have satellite expressions.

Um, you know, let awareness.

You did have the discretion in these as long as you do it consistently, because you don't want to play favorites to require people to give you the specifics.

But but uh again, the only thing I would say is if you're gonna require meta one, you need to require them all to get sequenced situations where treating different people.

But where that would happen now is when the app when you get the application in the ease.

That would be to provide X, Y, C if they want to bring that to the meeting.

So then it's obviously called a we went to that's perfectly appropriate.

The beauty of that is you've created a record.

Right, and it's in the file.

What what we're what I get concerned about, and I don't think we've had this problem just as a preventive lawyer thing.

What I don't want is for decisions to be made in here in this public forum where some of you are making decisions based on private things that you know, but then everybody else doesn't know.

We don't want to do that.

That's why we have open meetings and public meetings.

And I and I don't think you've been that, but I'm just saying as long as you do it the way David talked about it, I think you're fine.

So we've got a problem when we got the sound measure.

Why don't we deny well the what I have, at least I've thought, let me look at yeah, you're correct, but at least you know, I was mixing what I got with the application, you're absolutely right.

I hadn't thought about that.

What I think that I would be part of uh with the whatever we decide, the city would issue with their stop.

Well, see, and in Westfield City is they have not, as I understand it, keep me honest.

What we're seeing right here on the right, that ports, that second floor ports, that's never been applied for.

So that, as I understand it, filing city code right off the bat.

I don't even think you have to.

They haven't applied for that, so there's nothing for you to deny.

Right.

Okay, but it's in the it's in the rendering.

Right.

Right.

So how do we get rid of that?

Well, you don't really take action on that.

The city takes action on that because they're the ones that are out looking at it, you know, they look at that and you go, wait a minute, this is this is under the historic ordinance.

There's no approval distances.

We need to let the city have this one.

I mean, you can note it, but there's really nothing for you to do.

You don't have the authority to order them to remove that.

We just need to point it out.

So they don't you can certainly do that in terms of like a clerk's game, whatever you want to call it.

And I think it's obvious that the staff knows that.

Um you haven't approved that and you know it hadn't been informed.

Can you convey the observation we made to your colleagues?

Well, that's what we decided.

And then we could add that to our life.

Yeah, if you wish any other comments you want to make it motion and yeah, but they think I'd make a motion for the we to deny.

Notify the city council and whoever else in the city is required to know about faulty procedures.

And the work that's being done with uh an application to us.

Typically what happens is staff is now aware of all this and keep it in the I would say extension the uh definition of the uh spring portrait.

Well, again, and I know this may maybe this is me being too much full of but um if it's not been applied for it's improper.

So there's no action for you to take.

It's it's not proper, and that's part of the stop mark.

I wanted right or something.

Well, the way the way the way probably to do that would be just again, I've always used the term a clerk's note to make sure that staff is aware of this, and you can specifically say the sleeping ports, the front port, you know, whatever you see that looks like it's inappropriate, they need to go.

The people whose job it is to inspect need to go look at that.

They will make the determination preliminarily if it's something that violates the ordinance, and at most needs to come back before the right.

But the only and and I know it's frustrating for you, but the only thing you can consider legally is what's in the application.

While you're considering that, you're seeing other things that you're concerned about, and the city's inspectors hopefully will go out and look at that and issue a violation of notice or whatever their process is.

That's how the process is supposed to work.

Okay, so we have a motion.

I don't think we have a second, but before we have a second, can you read it?

So we're uh Commissioner Jim Trimble made a motion to disapprove the windows.

In addition, um he would like to see, he would like to notify city council permits and inspections and staff of the faulty work and lack of notification for additional work done on the sleeping ports, the screen enclosure, and the rule's line.

And I would I would sort of tweak that slightly to say by saying disapprove the application everything that they may have applied for, is why you're considered the windows in the if he reads that motion to disapprove the application.

Right.

Is there a second?

Any other discussion?

All those in favor of denial?

Okay.

Any other business oh everyone's ready to go meeting a turn?