Okay, everyone, welcome to our uh study session on August 18th, 2025.

Yes, my voice is a little bit better than last time.

Appreciate that.

Uh council member Adams is participating by Zoom, and all other council members are present.

Councilmember Adams, do we have you on?

Yes, sir.

Hear you loud and clear.

Thank you, sir.

Uh item one is to review the agendas for tonight's council meeting as well as for August 25th.

I know we you went over uh tonight's agenda Thursday.

And are there any additional questions on that agenda first, then we can move over to the 25th.

Sometime silence is golden.

Uh Mr.

Smith.

Mayor and Council.

If I could just clarify one thing on this agenda, and it's items 9A and 9B.

If you look at the language regarding staff recommendation and P and Z board recommendation for 9A, it says adoption.

And then for 9B, it says for recommendation and and it says approval with conditions.

Those are those are just flipped.

Um the the zoning case, um 9A is approval with condition, and the general plan is adoption.

It doesn't affect the vote tonight, and the vote by the Pnz board was 4-0 on both of those, but just for clarification for the for the record, I just wanted to point that out.

Okay.

That's all, Mayor.

Thank you.

As well as uh, I think you mentioned as well as voting tonight.

We could either keep them uh both together, or if the council want to separate the two, we can do that as well.

That's true, Mayor.

Okay.

Thank you.

Council, any questions for tonight's meeting.

Okay.

With that, we'll move over to the 25th.

Mayor, if I could, um, on the 20 on the 25th, just wanted to clarify that since we uh distributed the agenda item 3a was a recommendation for denial for uh the liquor license.

They the applicant has resolved those issues, and so the recommend recommendation for denial is being removed.

Okay.

And that's for the 25th.

For the 25th, yes, sir.

Okay.

Okay.

It's gonna clarify what I just said.

Sorry, it's an odd one.

Um so the uh zoning issue that they have is not going to be resolved.

It's an um inconsistent use for that zoning area, but they are aware of that, and they say they will resolve that.

So um they've resolved the fire safety act um operational permit issue, the outstanding debt to the city.

So that uh is allowing us to move forward.

Uh zoning alone is not a reason for us to recommend denial uh to the liquor board.

So we're gonna move it ahead with uh recommendation for approval.

They can go to the uh uh liquor board, get their license, uh, and then they'll have to resolve their zoning issues before they can actually open an establishment here.

Gotcha.

Okay.

So we're gonna I do have a question on that.

Go go ahead, Mr.

Adams.

So uh can you be more specific about the conflict with the uh proposed use and the existing zoning?

I'm looking at Mary, but I don't know if she's up on this one, but we can get that to you uh before next week.

I think you have backup coming.

Oh, go ahead.

Good afternoon, Mayor, Council.

Um the proposed business location does not meet the current development standards.

Uh and is considered legally nonconforming.

Trying to see if you needed well zoning.

Okay, we have another help.

Another lifeline.

It's uh it's uh long closed gas station, isn't it?

Uh mayor, council member Adams, that is correct.

It's a former AMPM gas station there on the southwest corner of University in Lindsay.

Um it's a legal non-conforming site, meaning it doesn't meet the development standards.

Any new, and it's been closed more than a year.

So any new development that goes in there would need to address those nonconformities.

So there's likely some zoning work that would would need to happen with this site before it could be occupied.

But those are not specific to the uh the liquor board's decision about the license.

Is that correct?

That's correct.

Okay, but he can't open until he takes care of the zoning.

That is correct.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, council.

Any other further questions?

That's on the 25th.

Uh Vice Mayor.

Yeah, I have a qu well, I have a couple questions.

Don't have to address them all tonight, but let's start with the big one.

Uh 5C Siena Ridge PAD amendment.

Um I don't have an issue necessarily with this use.

We've already zoned it, I think, last year or two for this use, but we're talking what this is asking for now is a reduction in garage size.

Vehicles are getting bigger, they're getting longer, and uh parking on this site outside of garages is fairly limited.

I think there's about 15 or 16 spots if I count it correctly.

And now we're talking about some fairly substantial reductions in the garage size.

Why on earth with cars getting larger and this the site being where it's at against the freeway, and this is there's no transit here worth a darn.

So this is not a transit piece like near downtown where I could see possibly shrinking it.

This is a car-centric area.

Why are we shrinking garage sizes?

Thank you, uh, Mayor, Vice Mayor Summers.

Um, that's a a good question.

So you're right.

This was rezoned in 2023.

They're um in for permits currently, which is where this issue came up with the garage size.

It is a reduction in the the garage dimensions.

There are two, and I I'm happy to give the presentation if you guys want it, or if you just had questions, whatever is better for the council.

Probably just cut to the garage size parking.

Yeah.

So here are the deviations.

There are four plans total.

Um plans one and two have a width of 19 feet two inches, a depth of 20.

The plans three and four are a little bit bigger.

They're 25 feet in width and 20 feet in depth.

The code requirement is is actually 20 by 22.

So the width on on one is under.

It's it's pretty close.

Um the 20-foot depth, what I would say is it's it's in excess of a standard parking stall.

A standard parking stall is nine feet by 18 feet.

Um, it doesn't have a garage door for one, and garages typically store other things like water heaters, that type of thing.

So you have to make space for that.

That's that's correct.

So they've um rearranged the floor plan a bit to get the water heater in a part where it doesn't impact the the overall area of the garage.

Um you are correct.

It it they are that 22-foot depth was intended for storage of of things, which is why Mesa's standard depth of a garage is a little deeper than in other communities.

Um staff looked at it in in totality.

Um, I think we have less concerns with plans three and four because they're 25 feet wide, so we still have some some storage abilities on on the side of the garage.

19 feet by 20 feet is I don't want to call it a standard deviation.

We've done it for Blandford in the past.

There are, I think, ways to design it where the impacts could be a little minimized, I would say.

There is some guest parking on site.

There's also parking on on um 90th street.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's then when you start to bleed into 90th street and creating parking overflow.

I don't want a public street to be part of the a private development's parking plan.

Sure.

That's that's the concern I I'm gonna have with this.

I mean, where what is you said ours is a little bit larger of a standard for garage size.

Where does this fit with what other communities do in comparison?

Um I can mayor, vice mayor summers.

I can do a a bit more research before the next council.

I mean, I don't we don't have to answer that either.

Um a 20-foot depth is is actually a pretty standard size for a garage, is is what I would say.

But I'm I'm happy to look at some other communities in the area and give you some some data on what that looks like.

Yeah, and when you look at up getting a little close, you could this is hard to tell.

That's the problem with these graphics, but you can see there's a little bit of parking up on the top.

There's some parking up, you know, to the west.

Yeah, thank you.

There behind the buildings here.

But that's really it.

And there's like one parking space down by the office, one or two.

And that's really it.

So you know, people with everyday cars.

I I'm pretty sure the the mayor isn't gonna be able to park his truck in there.

Mr.

Heradia's truck isn't gonna fit in there, right?

And it's just even on a good day, I'm a little concerned about the fact that we're shrinking parking.

I think it's just gonna create some issues.

But I I'll listen to well, I'm just wondering, I'm trying to look at the neighborhood um makeup.

Is 90th Street a street they could park on?

Because I agree, like that's that's why I'm always harping on parking, because if you don't park these developments well, they spill it into the neighborhood, and then we hear about it for years.

So it's and it's very problematic to the neighborhoods.

So I'm just wondering if these streets even make sense that they would overflow park on.

Uh Mayor, council member spillsbury, yes.

So 90th Street is a public street, it's it's uh county jurisdiction.

Um it it does accommodate for on street parking.

And then so is that I can't tell from the map because it has any are those backyards or front yards of those houses that are on 90th on the east side of 90th Street, those would be front yards.

That is the front yard, so those are people's driveways.

Correct.

Um stuff.

I noticed on the uh submittal documents, there's a statement.

This is the development team also wants to ensure it's clearly conveyed that although marginally small, smaller than city's code standard, our proposed garage will accommodate nearly all passenger vehicles and light trucks.

The 19 by 20 can also accommodate large vehicles, including full-size SUVs like a Ford Expedition or full-size trucks like our Ford F-150 super cab.

Well, mayor.

So these will be private streets in here, right?

That is good.

That are that are managed by the rental company development.

Right, mayor councilman will go for it, that's correct.

And then, you know, typically we worry about overflow parking, I guess on city streets, but that impacts other communities, right?

Correct.

And um, I mean 90th Street, if you they allow parking on it, right?

It's allowed parking on 90th Street.

That's what you're saying.

Yes, right, but just because parking is allowed on the public street, do you want to make it part of their potential?

Is it public?

Is it a public or is it private?

It's a uh 90th street is a public street.

But not a city of Mesa Street, yeah.

Correct, it's a county.

I mean, you're still gonna get you're gonna get the the contacts.

I mean, we're you have a right to park on a public street.

I'm just saying we're potentially creating an issue that requires people to park on a public street, and how how much do you want to get into that?

And none of those neighbors across the street complained or or you didn't get it, none of the citizen participation had anyone concerned about that, right?

Uh mayor, council member spillsbury, that's correct.

We got no uh residents at Pnz, no emails, no phone calls.

Well, well, I guess what I would say is we don't want to do these on one-offs.

What what's the standard in the code?

Does it does it provide for most cars?

If it doesn't, that's kind of where we need.

I I don't know that we need to pick on one development or the other necessarily.

This is what I would say, uh, mayor, council member go forth is that they are meeting their parking requirements.

So the required parking is is provided.

Um yes, I understand that the garage um they're asking for a reduction in the size, but the number of spaces um is being met through through the site plan that is that is shown here.

Yeah, but you're still it's a difference.

If if you can park the cars in the garage, as the document suggests, then there's not necessarily an issue.

But as soon as you get 12 people that live here that buy vehicles that are too large, they're gonna try to park them in the street in the guest parking out on 90th street.

And again, it's it's I'm a little concerned that we set these standards and we're watching the size of our garages get smaller as cars get larger.

And I know there's a development not far from where my daughter lives that's actually offering you the opportunity to make deeper garages because they realize that cars are getting a lot taller.

Um you did offer to provide me for some information on what some of the other standards are so we can make a comparison if I can get that absolutely for this vote and I'll figure out what to do next week.

And mayor vice mayor, if I can, we can provide that to all of the council so they can see what surrounding jurisdictions are doing.

And um Nana actually just provided me that for example Nenix Phoenix is nine and a half by 19, so even a little bit smaller than our standard sizes, but we'll get that summary table to everybody before next week.

Mayor, a quick comment.

Yes, Rich, Mr.

Adams.

It it seems to me that the argument for consistency uh makes a lot of sense to me.

I you know, I guess we could argue all day long about you know whether if I had a Ford expedition, would it fit better than my uh Toyota Tundra or whatever it might be?

But um I think there's some legitimate concerns here, but I would fall on the side of a consistent policy or consistent minimums, and maybe it sounds like we have those.

Um, as opposed to having to weigh this every time someone comes along and says, well, I can throw three more units into this space if I can reduce the size of the garages.

So my my the point I'm trying to make is if we have reasonable minimum dimensions for the reasons that are being debated right now.

Maybe we should consider sticking with those unless there are really unusual circumstances.

Thanks.

Thank you, Miss Spillsbury.

Um, I'm trying to see this information, but how many units is this?

Um thank you, Mayor.

Or sorry, Mayor, Councilmember Spillsbury, it is 29 units.

29 units.

So each one of those units has a two-car garage, or what they're calling a two-car garage.

And so then I'm counted on the map 16 guest spaces.

Is that what you have?

Like what is this parked at?

Um, we are I think just above their required 2.1 spaces per unit.

And again, you kind of hit on it that the two is the garage, and then the point one are the same.

Because that's my I that's why I keep asking us to look at parking codes, because you can say 2.1, but as soon as you make two of those EP each units, two, then you are cutting those away from anyone else using them.

And so I've never felt like the 2.1 is adequate, adequate for these, anyways.

So then if we're gonna make the garages smaller, anyway.

I don't I don't ever want to do anything that's going to impact the surrounding neighborhood um drastically like that.

So I don't I don't know.

I I think that's also I don't know if 16 guest spaces are enough if we're not gonna really actually be able to fit two cars in each of these garages.

Let's pull from consent, please.

Evan, where is it?

Um I'm sorry, the breakdown.

Not all the units have the shorter amount.

There's certain number of units that are at standards the 24.

Oh, it's on the presentation.

There are um Mayor, Councilmember Duff.

There are four four floor plans.

Um all four of them have a reduction in the garage size, but they the reduction varies.

So actually, plans three and four, if you look at the overall area would exceed the dimensional requirements as far as area for garages.

Plans one and two would be under the okay.

So let's do this.

Why don't you do your research, get back to all of us as uh mayor and council, and then uh we will evaluate that for on the 25th and see listen to some direction from the vice mayor.

We'll do are we leaving it on consent for tonight then since it's an introduction or you still want it off for the introduction, Scott?

Oh no, introduction's fine.

I I don't I'm not gonna do that, but yeah.

Okay, yeah, yeah.

I'm sorry, next week.

Okay.

Council good with that.

Mr.

Adams.

Yes, yes, thank you.

All right.

Thank you, Evan.

Is there some other one you want to talk about?

Um you're good.

He looks like he really, really want to talk about this one.

Don't leave in such a hurry.

Okay.

Uh with that, we'll move forward to item two is to acknowledge of receipt of board minutes.

Is there a motion for that?

So moved.

Thank you, Vice Mayor, Miss Spielsbury.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Thank you, Mr.

Adams.

Matt, the motion passes unanimously.

Next is current events and conferences attended.

Uh council members, do you have anything you'd like to share?

Okay, Vice Mayor.

Mayor, I'm gonna uh just add one that I missed last week.

Uh the 653rd Regional Support Group, which is an element of the Army Reserve based on a Mesa Gateway Airport, had a deployment farewell ceremony.

They are deploying to a CONUS assignment and left August 1st, so we wish them all well.

Yes.

Ms.

Duff.

Yes.

Um Councilmember Summers and I also attended on Friday the ASU congressional dialogue series with Andy Biggs.

Uh the subject matter was the urgency of SRM small modular nuclear reactors to power AI and establishing that within the state.

And Director Scott Boucher also attended with us.

Um and then last night I attended the Arizona Korean Association's 80th anniversary of Liberation Day.

It's a national holiday in Korea that come commemorates the end of 36 years of Japanese colonial rule from 1910 to 1945.

There's many uh great speakers and performances.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Mr.

Redia.

No.

Miss Filsbury.

This morning, um, we had a meeting over at Sunland Village, HOA, which is on Greenfield.

Um, so they got an update from Kurt Albright and his team on our um Central Reuse Pipe Central Mesa Reuse Pipeline.

And um, just kind of an update.

We're we're getting near, we're getting close.

The end is in sight.

Um, so that was a really great meeting, and um just I appreciated the staff coming out and helping that community understand better why the roads have been torn up for so long.

So thanks.

Good.

Ms.

Goldforth.

All right.

I'll just share.

I I attended a uh conference in uh Providence, Rhode Island on the Mayor's Institute on City Design and talked about uh transition uh design here in our community.

I I want to thank Jeff Robbins.

Uh I showcased uh the old Mervyn's uh property and how that could transition into future development.

So it was uh very interesting and uh had a lot of uh urban architecture design transportation people is on our panel.

Also, I would moderated a water panel this Friday for the Mesa Chamber.

Appreciate SRP, CAP and our own Nicole there is uh in the in our discussion, and then I had a cultural experience Saturday night with the uh I was a guest of India's 79th Independence Day from the India Association of Phoenix here, and that's quite the celebration celebrating their independence for 79 years.

So with that, uh Mr.

Butler, you want to share future meetings?

Well, Mr.

Mayor, Council enjoy uh the League of Arizona Cities and Towns this week.

If you're uh attending that in Scottsdale, we'll be canceling study session for Thursday morning.

So we'll reconvene back here next Monday at 515 uh for study session.

All right, thank you.

I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

Thank you, Mr.

Redia.

Miss Goforth, all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Thank you, Mr.

Adams.

We'll see you upstairs.