Good morning.

I have 730.

Welcome to the Macy City Council study session.

For December 4th, 2025, Mayor Freeman and Council Member Adams are unable to attend and excused from this meeting.

All other council members are present.

One is there she is.

Number one is to review the agenda we have for Monday, December 8th council meeting.

So let's go through that agenda.

And do Council here.

Council, if I may.

Items 4G and 4H.

Those issues uh are originally recommended on the agenda in front of you for denial.

Uh those items have been resolved.

We'll get those updated this afternoon.

So when you see the agenda on later this afternoon, they will be recommended for approval.

Okay.

And then we do as you're working your way through this.

Uh, once you get there, 7A and 7B regarding a PD data uh platform.

Uh Pat Phelps is here to give a presentation on that one to further clarify that piece.

Okay, and eight E, I believe A EAF is a presentation on the study session as well.

Correct.

And I thought I had one more six B.

Is that also a presentation?

The Mesa connected.

Okay.

So other in those items, do Goose Council have a question on anything else?

I have okay.

Yes, I have many questions.

Do we just get started or great?

Okay.

Um for a Royal Palms Golf Resort.

So I just want to make sure I understand this.

There's a lot of calls for Mesa PD at this location.

35 calls in four years.

Uh only five have reports written.

Is there some sort of baseline for um how many calls we take at a location that is requesting to have a a license for alcohol and what does that look like?

There's also a school that's 2400 feet away.

What's the normal distance that we want to have for schools from a location that's going to be serving beer, wine, liquor, anything?

So I'm I'm guessing there's the answers to these questions.

Uh good morning, uh Vice Mayor, Councilmember.

Um I'm kind of filling in on the liquor license.

I don't know the details of the distance between the school and the application of the location, but I will find that out and get that to you this afternoon.

Um with regards to the calls, um, PD uh crime prevention actually looks at the calls.

They look at the nature of the calls, um, they look at the number, the location in relation to the applicant's location, uh, and they make a recommendation to us whether or not they're concerned about the issue.

And in this case, they weren't concerned about the type of calls and the number of calls uh related to this application.

Okay, okay.

So we're looking to them for guidance.

Yes, we do.

Okay, great.

That answers that question.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh should I move to the next one?

Okay.

4D.

Uh there's a safe way at university and Valvista.

Uh, I think it's actually in Albertson's.

It's also requesting a liquor license, which will allow for sampling, but they already have a liquor license that will remain in non-use.

Uh is the new one taking place of the previous one?

I'm just trying to understand this process.

And in that case, can a store hold multiple licenses if they don't use multiple licenses, or does one die off?

I mean, I'm just Vice Mayor, Councilmember, yes.

They can hold multiple licenses.

Um they usually call it stacking, and it gives them additional privileges in the case of sampling.

Sampling has to be a separate application and then separate approval from the Department of Liquor and the Liquor Board.

Got it.

Okay.

That is all my questions on liquor licensing.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, so then five B.

Um, we have the 175,000.

That's for new cameras and annual maintenance.

I guess what I'm trying to understand is that for the cost of maintenance alone, because if so, it was my understanding that that would be that's about $500 a camera.

It seems significantly above the national average, which I did some research on, which is around $360 a camera for annual cost, but I didn't know if that was the cost of the camera plus the maintenance, which you're smiling, so maybe that's it.

Um so can you walk me through that?

What is the national average?

Are we inflating on that?

And also who is negotiating our contracts?

Like, do we have a negotiations team that comes in and says, hey, we got a refer request for pricing, but we think we can walk that down.

Is this really the best?

So I mean I have multiple questions at the same time.

Sure.

Uh good morning, Vice Mayor, Councilmember.

Uh this contract is uh for the the purchase of new cameras to either put up cameras in new locations or replace cameras that have come to the end of their life.

The the main we do all the maintenance of the cameras ourselves with our staff.

So that's not in this contract.

It's to to purchase new cameras.

Okay, so we're we're paying basically $500 a camera to have it installed, and then we're maintaining it within the city of Mesa, or is this contract covering our staff to maintain it?

Sure, council member.

The the um the cost of a camera is about it's anywhere from three to six thousand dollars for for our cameras.

Oh okay.

We have 175 in the the city.

We won't be the we we replace them every 10 to 12 years.

So not every camera is going to be touched with the in the life of this contract.

But this is our best estimate right now to replace cameras that that come to end of life and then new camera new locations that that we're going to put up at intersections so that we can monitor traffic from our transportation management center.

I love the CCTV.

I just want to be clear.

I'm just trying to understand the pricing guide behind it, and like what is the average, how much should it cost?

Yes.

A good range.

Yeah.

Um, so I think we work with with Ed's team to go out to to bid with these contracts, and so it's advertised, and we try to get as many bidders as possible, and we take the the lowest um bidder.

Ice mayor, council member.

Yes, this was a bid.

Um there were seven bidders that responded, and this is the lowest responsive responsible bidder that we're recommending.

Do we negotiate though?

Do we go further and push the the edge a little bit and say, okay, thanks for the this particular bid, but can we go even a little bit lower on this?

And how do we make that happen?

Vice Mayor Council member, generally we don't because we're assuming that they are uh putting forward their best bid to try and compete against those others that are bidding.

Um in the public purchasing world, generally that's not the approach that practitioners take because they assume and and rely on the competitiveness of the bid process uh to establish those prices.

Okay, thank you.

Uh that was all for that one.

Thank you.

Okay, so item five C.

Uh, we have a two, it's I have a two million dollar contract, is what it looks like.

I'm hoping someone can walk us through that.

I didn't, it didn't really clarify.

Is that two million dollars per contractor or just for the overall contract?

Uh what are the points?

How are they determined?

What do they mean for the grading scale?

Uh we just had a ton of work done on DT and D2 on the road, so I'm trying to understand.

Do we need to go back and have our manholes reworked, or what does that look like for us?

Sure.

Good morning, Vice Mayor, Council members.

Um 5C, so this contract is it's actually for multiple vendors.

Right.

And it's it's on the sewer system, and so for instance, ProPipe, that's probably a little more than half of the two million.

And what they do is they clean and inspect our larger diameter interceptor pipes.

So these would be your sewers that are 24 inches um and larger.

So these are gonna be in your major arterials carrying a lot of sewage from regional parts of the city.

The smaller stuff, so 90% of the city we do ourselves with our own vector trucks and our own fleet.

Um, but pro pipe, it's different equipment and it's a different process.

So they do the bigger pipes, pro pipe in their contract, again, which is a little over a million.

They also do spot repairs.

So when we go in with cameras and they find defects in the sewer that are localized, say there's um uh a lining that's that's collapsing, or there's a hole in the pipe, they can go in, they have the technology to do spot repairs.

So that's part of the work.

Uh in situ firm is another one of the contractors.

Uh they do sewer lining.

So if we find uh defects in a sewer that requires not necessarily pipe replacement, because with sewers, we rarely replace the pipe, even sewers that are 80 years old, because um it's a lot less expensive and more effective to do what's called trenchless technology.

So you open up pits and uh you mobilize equipment and you run a liner through the sewer, and then you expand that liner, and it just forms to the inside of the pipe wall.

So it becomes part of the pipe, and then you take an 80-year-old pipe, and if you do lining, you can extend that life uh the sewer another 50 years.

So it's into form, that's also one of the uh vendors here.

Uh BNF, they they'll do small.

If if you're not doing trench list, if you have to actually excavate and say you have 20 foot of sewer where the roof is just collapsed and the sewer is uh compromised, then you get a contractor like BNF.

So they're one of the contractors here, and they would go out and they would actually do construction.

They would excavate and actually do that repair work out in the field.

Okay.

And then Duke's root control, um, that's pretty self-explanatory.

They're gonna go in, they have equipment that's gonna grind out roots that are in some of the a lot of the old vitrified clay pipe.

Sometimes you get joints that separate, you get roots, roots will find their way into the sewer, and uh so we have a specialized vendor that goes in and they have cutting equipment and they'll cut out the roots and they'll maintain the sewer in that way.

So it's a it's a plethora of of different services and vendors that all bid, and then um we pick the lowest responsible bidders, and then that's that's all under the umbrella of this two million dollars.

So it's not two million dollars of budget.

We already have the budget spread across our centers.

The two million is just contract authority to engage these contractors.

Okay, so it's for the total number of all the contractors.

All the contractors, correct.

Can we chat really quick about all the work that was already done down Greenfield Road in District 2?

It because it's so fresh and it's just been completed, and I know off of um Lindsay and Pueblo, and then the work that's being done on Valvista and Southern, which is also I think uh some piping work.

What is that gonna be taken out of the assumed cost of of this maintenance because all of that is just literally brand new?

Sure, Vice Mayor, Councilmember Taylor.

Well, Greenfield is the central meser reuse pipeline, so that was a capital project.

That's that's the carry effluent.

Okay.

That's a 10 and a half mile pipeline project.

Correct.

This is specific just to sewage.

This is you're right, uh, the sewage system, sanitary sewer.

Does that have any connection to all the manholes that were just replaced on 24th between Southern and Broadway, and then down Pueblo between 20, well, I guess we 24th and Lindsay as well.

There's some can let me look at the vendors.

I'm just curious to know that's a connection to sewage, right?

It is BNF, BNF contracting would do major manhole reconstruction.

So if you have a manhole that is you can't just you can't put in lining or you can't do coating to rehabilitate it, you have to rebuild a manhole or replace it.

That we bring in someone like BNF under this contract, but this contract is generally not looking at manholes.

We have other contracts that do manhole coating.

Southwest Environmental is a consultant we use, so that's a different contract.

Actually, we have three or four different contractors that have their own different technologies, and depending on the defects, we'll pick the contractor that would be the best fit.

Got it.

And the city kind of we are maintaining, so we're checking and then calling in the contractors to say, like, hey, we need to have work done here, here, here, here, et cetera.

That's correct.

So we have we have over 30,000 manholes.

Yeah.

So we have a program.

And a lot of them replace in my neighborhood.

Right.

So we try to do, I mean, ideally, we would be doing 500 a year.

Um, we're working up to that.

We have KPIs attached to this.

So we have targets that we try to achieve.

Um, I think with some restructuring we've done with the with that group in particular, adding a superintendent, adding a field coordinator to better schedule work.

Um, I think we're working up to the number where we need to be, but we do hundreds per year of rehab.

That's very helpful.

Okay.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

Okay.

The next one is 5D.

I'll stay here.

Yeah.

Okay.

I was just curious to know why we suddenly need approximately $350,000 for just over a month.

Like what happens after January 25th, 2026.

Sure, Vice Mayor, Councilmember Taylor, good question.

Um, so to be clear, so the 350,000, it's not, it's not new money, it's not budget.

We have we have the budget we need for all this equipment.

It's just increasing the spending authority that the warehouse has with all these different vendors to keep all of these parts in stock for us because they so they have the contract, and this gives them contract authority, so they keep they keep fire hydrants and they keep valves fittings, all that for two reasons.

We keep all of our trucks stocked with all this equipment, and we have a schedule of preventative maintenance.

So we have a field coordinator, schedules out all this work, the crews arrive at 5 30 in the morning, and then they have their to-do lists.

So they go out and they have to have their truck stocked to do this work.

But then there's also the area of emergencies.

So if we get water main breaks or a con frequently these days, we've got a lot of contractors that work for in the private side that hit our pipes or hit our fire hydrants, and sometimes we'll have two, three emergencies going on in any given time.

We can't have a situation where we go to the warehouse to grab a fire hydrant to to fix an emergency in the field and there's no equipment there.

So it's just to make sure that we don't that they have the contract authority to keep everything in stock that we might need, either in an emergency or planned.

And we're extending that authority just for over a month.

Is this just so that they can go buy whatever they need to keep the warehouse stocked?

It's the timeline that's got me a little hung up.

Vice Mayor Council member, um water did have some issues uh in the uh September October timeline that weren't really uh uh prepared planned for.

They were emergency responses.

So they did eat up a little bit of our our dollar amount that was available unexpectedly.

Um, and we do need the increase so that we can continue to order these supplies to as Chris said, make sure they're in stock for them.

But these are items that with the um uh market right now, they have long lead times.

So we could wait until February when we have a new contract available, but that runs the risk of then us not having items in stock uh because of those lead times.

So we'd like to get the dollar limit increase in now.

As Chris said, it's not a budget issue, it's already in the department's budget, it's just contract capacity.

And we do have a new contract that's being solicited that the council will see.

Uh I believe this is the second half of January for approval.

So it's just to bridge that interim so that we don't run out of stock.

Okay, okay, that's very helpful.

Thank you.

Um let me make sure I got everything on that one.

So did you say we'll be seeing the new contract in probably the second half of January?

Oh, the second half of January, yes.

Okay, that explains that date then perfect.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Okay, 6A.

Um Scott, I know this is in your district.

This was the Amazon Web Services development.

I was just curious to know I read I kind of looked at the presentation, I looked at the plot map, but there was a report that had the attorney's office, and it kind of had this like this was our public comment, and all it stated was that there were no phone calls.

And I was just curious to know do we record public comment on this?

Do we have good feedback for the council to review so we understand what the neighboring residents that are maybe a few miles away or even within a closer perimeter think about this?

Uh yeah, thank you, Vice Mayor, Councilmember Taylor.

So all of zoning applications, any public hearing application goes through a citizen participation process, and there are notifications that go out to surrounding property owners, usually within a thousand feet of the site.

Um the applicant tracks any any comments that they get, uh, voice or sorry, emails, phone calls, what the concern was, and then kind of what they did to address it, if if there was anything that they they were able to do to address it.

The range of feedback that we get kind of varies by location for this specific uh property, given it's it's a large property in an industrial area.

I don't think we got any feedback on that.

When it gets closer into more residential areas, we tend to get more feedback.

Okay.

Okay.

That's probably why there wasn't a lot of people.

Um let me see if there's anything else.

May I tag in on a question?

Yes.

Evan is here.

Yes.

Okay.

Um, why are they building a substation instead of relying on SRP just providing the electric?

Uh thank you, Vice Mayor, Councilmember Duff.

There are two components to this.

So SRP has a substation and they bring the power and it's actually um directly adjacent to the applicant substation.

The applicant then takes that power, I guess I'll use the word manipulate it for their needs, and then it feeds the actual building.

So it's uh not uncommon to have two substations, one uh by SRP, and then one more specific to the end users' needs.

Is that to regulate the amount of energy thing to safeguard to make sure they have an access to a certain uh load of energy?

I I'm I I know I'm getting a little technical, but I'm just trying to understand.

This is the first time I'm aware that it's happened, or maybe it's just because it's come through council and wasn't, you know.

Uh yeah, no, no, that's a good question.

Um, and I will give you my my planner answer as a uh non-electrical engineer.

I think what they're trying to do is step down the voltage because when it comes in at SRP, it's a really high voltage.

They have to then bring that down to a usable voltage for their um for their operations.

So SRP SRP brings in um main lines to a substation, and then they have to manipulate that power to make it usable for their for their needs.

So are other data centers doing this, and I'm just not aware?

Um yes, so we we've done a few of these recently where uh major utilities fall under a council use permit in the LI zoning district.

The ones there are a few, I think that maybe just have SRP um substations and SRPs exempt from zoning, so we don't review those.

But when there's an SRP substation and a private substation, that's the request before you today is that council use permit specifically for the the private substation.

And then as far as infrastructure, it's like duplicated in order to have that regulation.

So the there are what would I think appear to be to my eyes at least, they would appear to be similar on the site.

So it would look like two substations.

Um one is SRP and exempt from zoning.

The other one is private and requires it falls under the major utilities category and requires a council use permit.

Okay, thank you.

Mary, you and I had this conversation yesterday.

I was going over it with you.

Do you have anything else to add on that?

Um Vice Mayor Council, the only thing I think that we would add is that they are required to uh screen it per the mesa zoning ordinance.

So there are you know regulations in terms of what it looks like when it goes through that site plan process.

But today, really what's in front of the council is about the use itself.

And this is already under construction, it's gone vertical.

The SRP station, I believe, is there or is it under construction?

Uh Vice Mayor, the the project is under construction.

The AWS warehouse is is up.

I'm not sure on the timing of the substation, but the the data center building itself has started construction.

This is one that had zoning previously to previous to our zoning update, uh Text Amendment Act.

So this is just our power system.

And Mary's gonna be working on uh screening and making sure it looks as good as can possibly be.

Uh but it is also it is in the industrial area, it's not up against homes.

Yes, that's key.

Is there something similar to that substation over?

I think it's by Nell's auction.

There's maybe an Amazon warehouse or web services, and it looks like it has its own, basically its own grid.

If you're up on the 24 and you're looking out at it, is that kind of similar to what you uh Vice Mayor uh Councilmember Taylor?

Yes, that's actually an SRP substation right off of the 24 on the what would that be the west side of Ellsworth.

Okay, north of Ray.

Um I don't think this one is going to be quite to that extent because that SRP substation serves um multiple properties in the surrounding area.

Um as far as the look, it would probably be similar but at a smaller, uh smaller scale.

It'd probably be similar to the one at Meta.

Correct.

Which you can yeah, I just drove in.

Which, yeah, you can see it, unfortunately.

Okay, I saw a lot of landscaping, so that was nice.

Yeah.

All right, great.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

That was very helpful.

I don't have any other questions.

Uh let's see.

7A and B.

Uh real-time decisions and operations management systems.

Um I was just reading over.

That's right.

Never mind.

Do you have uh another one?

Uh yes, I sure do.

We're gonna we're gonna call you up uh for yeah, thank you.

Sorry.

Uh 8B, uh, were there any public comments around this?

Um did we have them recorded?

So Fujifilms is uh huge.

It's a huge facility.

It's been there for decades also south of 24 in the industrial area.

So I don't um I know people who have been.

Yeah, and they're like, why did why is Fujifilm getting bigger?

Why are they expanding?

And I'm like, oh boy, I don't really have an answer for you on that.

They need to do more business, but yes.

Um thank you, Vice Mayor, Councilmember Taylor.

So this went through the same citizen participation process that I described earlier.

And again, kind of because of the location of this specific property.

We didn't get a lot of feedback from residents because they were outside of um that mailing radius as far as why they're looking to expand.

Um their operations are growing, which is good.

And they also um picked up a former ADOT parcel that zoned agricultural, which is in the northwest corner of that site.

So they're rezoning that to heavy industrial and kind of bringing it into their existing planned area development overlay.

So they're there are expanding operations and they are bringing new property into their their uh planned area development.

Do you know if they're gonna make it more aesthetically pleasing from the road?

Uh good good question.

So the um they're going through design review for the new structures that are are um proposed.

They are tall structures and their specific equipment related to their operation.

So they're uh making them as aesthetically pleasing as they can.

There are some safety concerns because they need to have visibility in there because it's chemicals.

Um but yes, they are um have worked extensively with staff on the design of those buildings to get them as aesthetically pleasing as we can.

So we're approving the use of that new A dot land for them to expand onto in this.

That's that's part of it, yeah.

So we're we're rezoning that parcel to heavy industrial to be consistent with the rest of their development.

There's also a site plan uh modification included with this that shows the location of the new buildings that um are expanding, and they're all on the west side of that Fuji, the Fuji site.

Okay, okay, thank you.

So I've actually been working on this for better part of a year.

I'll add a little bit more context to it.

Uh the Fuji representatives had come out to the site and work with us to look at various um view angles, I think would be a good way, or view sheds, particularly from the 24, and what that was gonna look like.

We talked about one of their um uh towers that shouldn't be too onerous, but it'll be a little tall about maybe doing some design in front of that.

The difficulty is OSHA requires a clear view for the workers on there uh to work there.

Um the other thing that they're working on, this is gonna be 80 new jobs added to it, which is uh a great addition.

These are well-paid jobs uh as well.

Uh they are part of the pirate project, which is the rail spur that will come through eventually.

Hopefully, we get that uh moving that'll take dozens and dozens of trucks per day off the road.

So Fuji has been uh a key component of of that project as well.

So between there they are working on design, they're adding jobs, uh it's appropriately uh zoned in its south of the 24.

There's uh there's some stuff south of on that road that isn't exactly pretty but has been there for a very, very long time.

Fuji Fuji's been there for anybody know over a couple decades.

Yeah, it's been there a very long time.

So that was kind of the boonies when you know at one point.

It was Jack Rabbits and Tumbleweeds back in the day when they when they grew.

So but we're we're very attention, and then uh the state improvements to the 24 should help kind of block some of that view from what's south.

Okay, all right, great.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm almost done.

Kind of.

Uh so AC, there's a rezoning, multiple residences.

I I wasn't clear, I'm sorry.

Are these apartments?

Are these town homes?

What are we looking to uh Vice Mayor and Councilmember Taylor?

These this is a multiple residence development, it would be apartments, 15 units, uh multiple residents.

Okay.

And then let me see.

Lastly, are we doing a presentation on 9A?

I'm sorry.

I don't think we are no.

What is this?

Proposed amendments.

Middle housing, this is related 9A middle housing Mary is related to the state changes in our zoning code.

We all had individual presentations.

That's correct.

We um Vice Mayor Council, we did come to each of the council members.

Um I know we didn't make it to Councilmember Taylor because she can walk me through it, so I understand.

We could, we could.

Um we can either do a presentation or Rachel can give you an overall summary of middle housing, however, council wants to do that.

Well, I think you need to get with the council member and give her the full presentation.

We can do that.

Because yeah, she needs to.

I think we had it a while ago on what happened, so she needs to get brought up to speak.

So, how would that work with us approving or just can we pull it and wait so I can go through a presentation and understand it or has done it?

So mayor and council, this this ordinance is required by state statute to be approved by this year.

So I would highly recommend voting on this.

I know what we're talking about now.

Never mind.

I got it.

Okay.

I know what the ramifications are if we don't approve it.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

Okay, and then um the forensics.

Uh I'm sorry, I don't know if I put it on my notes.

Yes, Kim.

Kim and I just talked, and I was hoping maybe you could explain this just so that the public also can hear.

Um why Mesa controls our crime lab in congruent in in sharing it with other municipalities, how they're gonna basically reimburse us for work done, um, and why this works out well.

Sure.

Um sorry, can Vice Mayor Council just so everybody's aware this is related to item 5A on the agenda.

Sorry.

Okay, good morning, Vice Mayor, Council members, Councilmember Taylor.

Thank you.

Um, our forensics laboratory uh provides work for four agencies, City of Mesa, of course, um, the city of Tempe, uh, the town of Gilbert and the town of Queen Creek.

Um we began began um offering these services in 2012 and became a regional lab at that point.

Um the way that our laboratory offer uh operates is uh these agencies are um invoiced at the beginning of the year based on the workload that's anticipated for that year.

Um the intergovernment governmental agreements that have been written are based on the workload that is expected.

Those funds are used to um actually hire and pay the salary as well as the benefits for forensic scientists, administrative staff, and the capacity to do um the work.

So the reagents and the consumables are included in that.

Um so the beginning of the year we start with those funds.

We uh will monitor throughout the year to to ensure that we don't see increases or or any workload beyond the capacity.

If we do, um, we will go back to those agencies and um invoice differently or increase um and so it's a cost neutral to the city.

There are um we actually started seeing quite a bit of benefits in it once we started becoming a regional lab.

Um one thing with crime laboratories uh nationwide is that they're incredibly fragile, and that's because of how long it takes to hire and train experts to do this work.

And so a smaller agency will obviously staff based on their workload, and which might mean in some of these disciplines you only have one to two people.

Um so the loss of one person actually can shut down laboratories and some of the work they do.

Um that was true for Mesa as well.

And so once we started um being a regional lab, we actually saw quite a bit of stability added to our laboratory, um, which has allowed us to um handle um Mesa's work um very efficiently.

We've seen um stability in our turnaround times, our ability to be timely with our work, um, and that has been true for those other agencies as well.

So for everyone who's listening, in a sense, because we've kind of you know grouped all of these municipalities together.

We have a more stable lab.

We have more employees at that lab who can do more work in a timely way.

We can report from one central station essentially hey, here's what we've done for Mesa, here's what's been done for Tempe, here's what's been done for Gilbert.

So overall, it's it's a very positive experience, not just for Mesa alone, but for other smaller municipalities that otherwise may have crime labs that don't even remain stable and could close down.

Yes, absolutely.

And and we we do believe that you know we understand that crime uh crosses borders, and so by being able to provide this timely service to the agencies that um neighbor us, we believe that we actually are impacting the crime in Mesa as well.

That's great.

Okay, thank you.

I appreciate that.

Award-winning lab.

That's correct.

Award-winning.

That's good.

Thank you.

Councilmember Duff.

Yes, I'd like to comment on item nine B.

Um first of all, I realize we're down to only considering a thousand feet.

I do want to thank the mayor and council member go forth for attempting to have a full council discussion on this on the best systems.

Um in fact, GI zoning is in district three, it affects several districts, not just one, and so I think it takes all of us to contribute to this.

But regardless, I'm sorry I missed.

I regret that I didn't stay up, even though I was on a different time zone internationally, because I do have a lot to say, and I will share it because I will be voting against this.

Um who proposed a thousand feet?

How did we ever get to a thousand?

We started with 400 for the staff.

The planning and zoning recommended 400.

Somehow a thousand feet kept on creeping in.

I have no idea how it got there.

So, Vice Mayor Council, um, when we when staff initially worked with the fire department building official, we looked at the 400 feet to somewhat mirror what we had done with data centers in terms of that separation requirement.

As we were receiving feedback from stakeholders from some of the leadership, that that discussion moved to a recommendation for a thousand feet.

So staff changed our recommendation from that 400 to that thousand based on some of the feedback we were receiving.

Who are the stakeholders?

So some of some of the um people that we heard at public meetings, some of the residents.

The professionals in the well, the professionals in the industry are definitely looking at a smaller setback based on the NFPA, but that separation from the resident from that residential um those residential areas and districts was was really coming from some of the residents that were at meeting some of the the feedback that we were receiving as we were going through this process.

So when we recommended that thousand, then you're right, planning and zoning board, because we had started with the 400 said they recommended to go back to that original 400.

So staff stayed with our original thousand-foot recommendation and then offered those two options to the council for council's consideration.

And APA American Planning Association also recommends a lower at the 100 feet or whatever.

They do I and I I don't remember specifically what the feed is that the APA is recommending.

What I would say is there is no benchmark on that separation.

Those numbers range from a hundred feet up to a mile.

And so staff was trying to kind of find that find balance in our recommendation because there is no, there is no answer in terms of what most people are doing in terms of best practices.

And I appreciate your comments, and I did listen to the study session at the council meeting that I missed.

So I I did as much research as I can.

And I looked at pure cities, Los Angeles is one to three hundred feet, San Francisco, two to five hundred, Houston, three to five hundred, Miami, three to five hundred, Phoenix, two to three hundred, Las Vegas, three to five hundred, Charlotte, North Carolina, two to three hundred, Atlanta, Georgia, three to five hundred feet.

New York City, two to five hundred feet.

I can't find anybody, any cities that required a mile separation.

It can exist, it just wasn't available in databases.

And the only city or area that I can find that prohibits them all together was in Hawaii and Kauai in particular because of the fire risk, and we know what things happen in Hawaii with a fire risk.

So I think it's um it's really putting us off of the standard of our pure cities.

Um I'm getting out of line of all my notes.

But um, okay, I will go back to that.

Um, but it's really pitting us out of the spheres, is making us less competitive, it is affecting our energy costs and our economic development.

So I understand a thousand feet, we want to be careful to uh to protect residential, but a thousand feet is equivalent to three football fields.

Can you imagine the distance of three football fields?

That's I think is pretty excessive, and that is wasted land.

It's gonna just sit there, it has no contributing factor to our city or to our energy demands.

Um the developer next to the best, the current best um that's in process, did write a letter to council as a multifamily project, and he approved 400 feet, very satisfactory.

This is his investment, his career 400 feet.

It was adequate to protect that investment.

Um I have concerns that we have substations.

Well, this gets into zoning.

I think we're past that anyway, but substations are all over LI zoning and residential zoning, and these best systems need to be close to substations in order to operate.

So we're really limiting in the GINHI.

Um I think data centers have battery storage.

Um there is nothing I can find that a thousand-foot separation is supported by a study, an example, an incident, any profession at all that a thousand feet is is supported.

It's basically, I guess, just on the um recommendation of residents and and of our city.

Um SRP wrote a letter to us um mentioning um it's going to eliminate 600 megawatts of clean energy that we're expecting.

And that is they said um limit our economic growth and grid reliability in this area.

400-foot setback achieves the goal, 100,000, 1,000-foot setback does not.

It will set Mesa apart as an outlier and put reliability and growth at risk.

Um the energy developers have worked closely with Mesa staff for years to identify these project locations as part of the city's long-term energy planning.

This is not something they just came up with.

This has been in the work for years.

SRP factored these projects into Mesa's energy needs um three to four years ago, and now um their energy rejection.

Now they're planning five to seven years, and I think that's the waiting time for energy on some of the um economic development projects.

Energy is not readily available.

This is the cheapest, fastest energy available for economic development.

If you're looking at other forms of energy, we're gonna have nuclear, there's decades before you can get anything established.

Um, gas, 10 a very long time.

You have to have gas lines from wherever.

This is energy that is an excess, it goes to waste during um overnight, and this is a way to take it and store it and use it.

The energy is already there, is being wasted.

Um it's the number one way to have the cheapest and most reliable form of energy that we need desperately need.

Um compromises grid reliability during peak summer demand in high growth areas, undermines Mesa's economic development goals as a reliable power is essential for attracting businesses.

It increased costs for residents and businesses by forcing reliance on less efficient backup generation.

I think that's interesting.

We rely on the NFPA guidelines for our fire code and our building code, but somehow it's not sufficient for best systems.

Or in our homes.

We can't escape it.

It's there.

Um this was quoted in the public comment, and I didn't have time to research the article, but it says a piece in political the other week that found states with more renewables like battery storage have lower power costs than those without new solutions will help provide power and make energy affordable again.

I did as much research as I can among peer groups that I have for electeds.

I put a call out to best systems and what their separation requirements were.

I went to the National League of Cities Conference.

I asked everybody I could and everything.

I could find no one that was requiring these excessive a thousand feet.

Everything was 100 or the two to five hundred range.

And then you know, I did further research and named all the cities that are pure cities and what their ranges are.

So we have staff, we have the planning and zoning, we have the American Planning Association, we have industry professionals, including fire and MPFA and standards across US among pure cities.

Um and somehow we think a thousand feet is the magic number.

Nothing has supported a thousand feet.

I think it's excessive.

I don't support a thousand feet.

I will be voting no on this.

And to residents who don't support infrastructure, so we can provide the lowest energy cost, the lowest water costs, because you don't want to pay for infrastructure.

You're turning your back on keeping a utilities affordable.

Thank you.

Jim, just to clarify, if the item fails uh on Monday, Bess is not allowed in the city of Mace, is that correct?

Vice Mayor and Council, that's that's correct.

Right now, under the zoning interpretation, um they're not permitted, they're not a permitted use.

And so uh we're bringing forth um you know a change to to allow them to be permitted under certain circumstances.

So we'd probably come back to you in January or February with um other options and to ultimately you know adopt something.

Okay, and if a thousand feet is approved, that doesn't stop us from taking in new evidence and amending the ordinance in a text update.

Correct.

Uh Vice Mayor and Council, you could approve the thousand feet, and we could come back later and uh reduce that or increase it and then also make other changes, obviously.

You you you see frequent changes to the zoning code.

Okay.

Mr.

Heredia?

Um I'm I also miss the question.

Also miss the meeting, but I remember um we asked somebody asked about in between 400 and a thousand, and was there a conversation with the applicant and maybe staff about kind of looking at that as an option.

It's just curious.

I don't know if I missed that conversation on Monday's meeting, but so council member or vice mayor, council member Heredia Council.

Yes, we did uh meet with um one of the applicants who the thousand feet would be more restrictive for them in terms of what they wanted to do.

Um after meeting with them, there was not they did not ask for anything um in like as an interim as a third option, which is why we came forth with the two options.

Um Mary, can we can we get um a map that shows where our existing HI where these are going to be allowed and our existing residential zoning districts are in at least for instance in the southeast part of the city, district six, where it's not as developed yet.

thousand feet would be more restrictive for them in terms of what they wanted to do um after meeting with them there was not they did not ask for anything um in like as an interim as a third option which is why we came forth with the two options perfect um Mary can we can we get um a map that shows where our existing HI where these are going to be allowed and our existing residential zoning districts are in at least for instance in the southeast part of the city district six where it's not as developed yet I I'd like to visually see what are we really talking about how many zoning districts are actually affected at this time sure vice mayor and and council uh councilmember go forth yes we can we can prepare that map um it's important to note that there's also GI as council member duff had mentioned over on the west side of the city so it doesn't just sit in the southeast part of the city but we we can create a map and we can get that out to everyone that'd be great I would like to mention there is a pending multifamily project that will I don't know what decisions will be made or I guess it'll be on the best system that they will not be able to build out capacity because there is a multifamily project there is a best system in process and they will have to pull back on that capacity SRP has no way to replace that energy in order to prepare they know there's resident multifamily next door so they'll and the multifamily again said 400 feet was fine but it will affect um that system immediately and that's the only one that I know of that so Vice Mayor Council members that's correct that the there are there's one that's currently being built on Signalview that you're all aware of there are also two that we have precipitals for the one that councilmember duff is referring to there is a residential zone parcel within about 450 feet of that so the thousand feet would impact where they would have to place that first battery on that site which would impact the capacity of it with the second site which is kind of at the corner of Elliott and signal adjacent to the um the existing one on signal view that thousand foot they from the residential district they have that that distance so it doesn't impact that one it's the one that has the um the residential district within about 450 feet it would impact them so to any other questions on this I just wanted to get what based on what Mary said so am I understanding that this is in kind of along Jen Duff's concerns and my understanding that the big concern that you have Jen right now is the multifamily project with that best system they can't coincide together currently and what that means is if the thousand feet does win currently although the multifamily can be built we're concerned that SRP basically has nowhere else to put that one best system the best system has to be downsized thank you okay so first of all Mary and I have been are continuing to work on this issue much to her chagrin she has some meetings I think today if we get out of this meeting to talk to some of the best industries uh I've been I'll I'll try to keep this short because the the comments I made the other day are still relevant I spent 20 years in hazardous materials I've been a tox medicine I know the byproducts of combustion when these things burn I've written an article on them I've fought battery fires I've been part of the NFPA process it's sausage making I mentioned the other day there was a baker's dozen worth of industry folks uh with their focus on building more of these systems uh that was part of the 855 plan firefighters right now a little sidetrack here but firefighters right now are trying to get PFAS uh their turnout gear the PFAS is a forever chemical it causes cancer they're trying to do that through the NFPA process but they are being blocked repeatedly by the industries that are also on that board it is like I said it's sausage making it's not just expertise it's not expert math there is no quantitative number on how far away from residential or other uses this must be because there hasn't been large scale testing there's been component testing but a large scale and fire testing has not been done the apartments that are there it is a grave concern because they are going to be so close they're also mixed in with industrial it's just a bad zoning scrambled egg that is developed in that particular incident as far as setbacks Santa Cruz County 1,000 feet Kioah County a quarter of a mile alameda county Virginia 5000 feet New York State proposed a bill for best over five megawatts to be at least a thousand feet from home California proposed 3200 feet from homes Rad Chacuca Monga Bryan Texas Bands Carmel New York Yorktown New York Monterey California Solano County Mary Ann County Jefferson County Oyster Bay I have a list so I I have said it before I think a thousand feet is reasonable for safety it allows the best systems to come in here to be

California proposed 3200 feet from homes, Rad Chacookamonga, Bryan, Texas.

Bands, Carmel, New York, Yorktown, New York, Monterey, California, Solano County, Marion County, Jefferson County, Oyster Bay.

I have a list.

So I I have said it before, I think a thousand feet is reasonable for safety.

It allows the best systems to come in here to because we do need the power.

This is just a question of what is the distance that we want to have, and those distances can be adjusted based on what we learn in the future.

Uh as for unproductive land, it's only unproductive if it's not commercially developed, because it's this is a residential setback.

And if I need to change something in this ordinance, I'm more able to do that.

What's the setback to commercial?

Vice Mayor, if I could just be clear, it's a separation requirement, it's not a setback.

So that separation is from the first battery to that residential property, the first battery to, or I sorry, the perimeter wall to that residential use is what I'm saying.

Yes, but it's not but that land that thousand feet in between is not a setback on the site, it's a separation distance.

So just for clarification on that.

You know, you tried to clarify it at the meeting, and it didn't really work.

We need the we need the map.

Anyway, uh that that's just a comment.

This is the item that that at the moment is coming forward.

And again, we can make changes to it in the future if this fails on Monday.

Uh Bess is not allowed uh in the city.

And one more thing.

Because I've had this conversation with their uh with their attorneys and and with SRP.

They've been planning this for Mesa for the last three years, they say, three to four years.

It never came to me.

If you're gonna plan something for our community and the wouldn't be a good idea to involve the council member who's most impacted by this, not one call.

I don't think as for you call me a liar?

As for the okay, thank you.

It's I shouldn't have jumped at you, that would I apologize that that was inappropriate to uh to the point we there was a request for a map of the the zoning, and there's an important component of this.

It needs to be within a certain distance.

The the best systems have to be within a certain distance of the transformer station in order to be useful if it's beyond that distance.

I think it's a mile, but don't take me to the bank on that.

Otherwise, it has to go to the line siding committee at the state with the ACC.

Can we get when we get that where is the industrial zoning?

Where are their transfer?

Where are their uh stations?

Because the that's where really the impact will be.

Um, Vice Mayor Council, we'll have to work with energy resources because not every substation is the same in terms of its ability to be able to pull the energy in and then put it into a bass.

So that may take a little bit more analysis, but we'll do the best we can with that.

I can get a map of the substations, but it may not be the specific information that you're looking for, because it's only certain substations that this would work with.

Okay, that see, so it's even more complicated.

How long do you think it'd take to pull that together?

Well it would sorry, Vice Mayor.

We'll get with uh Scott and his team and see what we can do.

Okay.

All right, let me know.

Would you?

Yeah, I think we have a call after that.

Um I I guess my comment is I think the thousand feet, I think the ordinance is um not up for um any pushback.

I think I think this is a single issue with a single site in my from my understanding, no.

No.

I mean, presently, but I mean it it still has implications potentially, depending on what we see in the map for for other locations.

Exactly.

That's that's what I don't know.

I mean, that's I think I don't know where there's any sort of crossover with I mean I can't imagine there's much residential zoned land right now next to heavily HI.

Have we done that?

So, Vice Mayor Council, in in District 3, there is significant amount of GI land that is surrounded with by residential uses.

In in District 3, there is significant amount of GI land that is surrounded by residential uses.

It's also important to remember that because this requires a PAD, an applicant could come in and ask for a rezoning from an LI to a GI or an H I to be able to do one of these near a substation that might today be in an LI area if they can get that separation requirement.

So just because it's the land you see today that's H I and G, I remember they can, depending on if you know if it's needed, ask for that rezoning to that heavier industrial use based on a case-by-case basis for council to consider.

We would evaluate that.

For council to consider, that's correct.

Um are there substations in those areas in district three?

That's when we need to buy I need to have this huge discussion that is pointless, you know.

And I think we need to let Mary and her team put together that map because again, just because there's a substation doesn't mean it has the capacity, the capability to do that.

So this would be some more information.

So is there any other pressing questions on this?

Vice Mayor and Council, if I could just add, I'd like to add something else, and I know we've probably already talked about it too much, is that the ordinance does something else that's kind of unique.

It makes um there's there's two sites right now that are looking to build, and this ordinance allows them to come in as uh legal non-conforming.

And and so that's sort of the unique aspect of this this ordinance.

And so that'll only really apply to sort of pending applications, and so it won't apply going forward.

But the the setback will be required of those um two sites to be able to be eligible for the legal nonconforming.

Why this is relevant is because there's a second aspect that you should always remember is that so in any future future site, it's gonna require rezoning.

And as part of that rezoning, you can always require more setback.

And so if you end up end up um deciding to alter the thousand feet, that would affect those uh procedurally legal non-conforming sites, those two sites.

But in the future, uh, let's let's say the whatever the if you ended up going with 400 feet, it would affect those two sites.

Other sites in the future, they would also be eligible with a 400 foot setback, but council could always require more as part of the rezoning.

We're we're treating, we're making this so the future, other than those two sites, um, future cases will always require rezoning, and so the setback could be altered, could be increased over the minimum.

We're really setting the floor, right?

We're not setting the ceiling.

Um, so just a thought to keep as as we the as this continues to evolve, and I know we'll end up talking about it Monday night too.

You are a thief of joy that we are going to talk about this on Monday.

I'm trying not to look at my council member over the either.

That was my question to Jim.

I I think that's I hope we don't uh we don't think these best systems are not something that we need and for the future of um our our power grid, right?

I I think I think there's some consensus that there is need for additional options for uh these types of systems.

So I I hope that's at least that's what I've gotten as far as what Jim said, I think that's an important aspect of how we move forward.

It's so site specific, these items, right?

Because they do need some sort of parasaurs, and and so I don't know if there's other options that we haven't added to this uh these uh these pieces that it still has to come to council for a vote and setting up that conversation uh with if it's this council or future councils, right?

Setting those uh processes is important, but understanding that we do need options that we need to think about now for the future of uh setting our power grid for success, right?

So I think that's that's an important aspect to to uh uh to note uh as far as how we set these systems up for future conversations that we're gonna have at the council level because these sites are so site specific, that's where we can keep on negotiating.

I think so, but I thank you for that comment.

Because I mean look, my my passion for this comes from my background.

I I it the safety and welfare of my residents is top priority, and that's what I've done.

Uh I I also have concerns about the grid.

I also have concerns about its impact on economic development.

We are struggling on a couple of projects to find them the power for advanced manufacturing in my district in order to bring the job.

So I I really do.

I see both sides.

And I I know Councilmember Duff and I both own uh N A V.

I park with them a battery in my garage every day.

And but I I know that risk.

I take that risk myself.

This is a little different.

So I am continue to struggle with this.

I was up at two in the morning thinking about this.

Mary and I had a conversation yesterday.

She was another meeting on this.

We continue to work on it.

So it is this.

Okay.

Yes.

If we set the floor at a thousand feet through this vote, can we change the floor later?

Uh Vice Mayor and Council, yes, but it realized that would require the process, right?

So we go back to P and Z, we go back to the public, we go back to P and Z and we come back and we introduce an ordinance of which I so yes.

Um we we'd go through the whole process.

So Linda Brady, give me a call.

Linda Brady works for SRP for those who don't know.

Do you have anything else?

So if we went back through process, how much delay would it require for this system that is in the system in the planning system?

Uh Vice Mayor and Council.

Um so if we went so that's the sort of an unquote because the unique aspect of this ordinance, right?

Is that it allows two sites to become legal nonconforming.

If this passes, well then one of the sites um might not be able to be eligible.

Right.

And so it's not it's not gonna be legal non-conforming.

And so it's not as simple as now, it's not as simple as sort of changing the number back down, you know, to whatever 400 or 500 feet.

I I really have to look on what we need to do to make that legal non-conforming, or they just have to come through the whole process, they have to rezone their property, get the overlay um, and get all the approvals necessary.

But the other site to that point, if I may, is that that would become a legal non-conforming.

Yes, I believe so.

So they could proceed with that one, right?

And while we tangle with the the third site.

That's my understanding.

That's my understanding.

Which delays delays the power that they promised for economic development.

But the second site would provide them at least with some of that power.

They already have the one, the second one could move forward and then det tackle the third one.

If we don't adopt this, then the second uh I don't want to say second one.

There's one that exists already that's legal non-conform, we voted on.

So the next phase of that, which would meet the requirements of this, could proceed and they could ramp that one up to get the power, it's the third one that we have to wrestle over.

Does that make sense?

Sort of, because Mary's making a face.

I'll let Jim start.

So uh Vice Mayor and Council.

I mean, the the other option is to instead of sort of going back and you know uh creating the wheel again is is to continue to January and February, and that that does delay the second site, um, but it allows us to sort of create one solution one time, and and it sort of solves the um for the third site, the legal non-conforming issue that it'll still be eligible for that potential.

Possibly, but if we continue to have the argument into the summer, because we can't then the risk is they can't get the second site moving.

So this is Linda, you need to call me.

So that's what I'll say.

Why do you make us start with an attorney?

I would always defer to Jim.

Jim Jim is an excellent source.

Uh do you have anything to add, Mary?

Jim is an excellent source.

Do you have anything to add, ma'am?

I just want to just to clarification, it's a legally conforming use, not a legal non-conforming use.

So they're a little bit different.

They're legally conforming now.

Mary.

The for the sake of everyone listening outside of us.

What's the difference between a legally conforming or Jim and a legally non-conforming use?

So Rachel knows this part of the code better than any of us.

So I think we're all gonna punt to Rachel because she knows it, because we we created some different categories.

Um it deals with the ability to expand or not expand in the future.

But Rachel knows this part of the code better than anybody.

Yeah, morning vice mayor, council members.

So there's really kind of three categories.

So you have a conforming use where it's meeting all the requirements of the code, and then you have a legal non-conforming use that at the time that it was established, it met the requirements of the code, but over time the code changes, so then it becomes non-conforming.

And then we recently adopted this kind of third option, which is a procedurally legal, non-conform legally procedurally legal conforming use.

Where if there was a zoning administrator interpretation that made a use that met all the standards at the time that it would be considered conforming.

So it came into the city, we we processed it, approved it, it met the standards at the time, but later there was a zoning administrator interpretation on the item that made it nonconforming.

We made this new category that said in those circumstances this would be considered legally conforming because of financing reasons, et cetera.

So we're taking something that was legally conforming.

It moved to non-conforming, but somebody interpreted it differently, and it moved back to legally conforming by procedure.

By this new ordinance, this new category, yes.

Full circle.

Okay.

Thank you.

I don't have any.

I'm just processing that way.

Yeah.

I'm I'm surprised do you think anybody's watching anymore?

I I have people texting me telling me they're watching it now.

All right.

We'll beat the source some more on uh Monday, maybe.

Yeah.

Okay.

And uh I'll be fielding some more calls.

Um item six B, you have a presentation.

This will be on the basic connected plan.

We have seven.

Why do I have six A?

Well, I'll go back to that.

Yeah.

Okay.

What do you want to proceed with next?

You want basic connections?

We're still on the current agenda.

We'd like to PD would like to clarify, just make sure that there's no confusion on this right.

You did ask about that.

7A and 7B.

So PD.

Good morning, Vice Mayor Council.

I'm Pat Phelps, Deputy Director in the police department.

Uh with me is Wayne Quang, who is our police IT division manager.

Uh we want uh clarify what's on the agenda here.

There are two related items items 7A and 7B.

And this is for us to implement a data sharing solution, and specifically the one where we'd like to move forward is Peregrine.

Uh we are constantly looking for ways to more effectively and efficiently do the things we are already doing, and these are things we're already doing.

So why don't talk a little bit about what this product is first?

And we kind of uh call it Google for cops.

So this is an ability to search data we already have.

So this is no new data.

This is data that already exists in our records management system or our CAD system, but provides an interface to our officers, detectives that allows them to instead of having to go by a field-by-field search, they could say um red car and show instances of red car in a Google type search.

Uh the other thing it does is it allows crime analysts the same type of capability to go through instead of looking in multiple records, they can see them all together in a single return search.

The other capability this has is a enhanced ability to then map that data.

We can automate processes that a crime analyst would do manually today, especially things that they would do on a say daily, weekly, monthly basis.

I need to produce a weekly burglary map of a district.

We can automate that process now, and it takes that off of um their plate and allows them to do other types of analysis.

Uh there's a mobile uh interface as well on an iPhone, and right now there's about 250 public safety agencies uh using this product.

And this is just some examples of this is uh data from the vendor or screenshots from the vendor.

This is not our data, but it just kind of gives you an idea of the types of maps, the types of charts as well as uh link analysis that this product does, which is a we would now currently do an external tool to be able to find uh relationships between uh distinct calls, for example.

So is this suspect involved in multiple types of incidents?

That would be a manual search to go through each of those incidents.

It can put that together in a chart for you and just kind of speed up the the rate at which you can kind of go through and look at that data and makes it more digestible for a detective or a crime analyst.

So what we're we're proposing here is a a pilot project, a one-year pilot project.

Uh Senate Bill 1735 is providing funding to agencies across the state in order to implement a data sharing platform.

Uh and that's item 7A, and then 7B is an agreement to purchase Peregrine.

Uh and the reason we specifically would like to go with this one is most of the valley agencies are going to use this product, and this product has an ability to integrate to other agencies to perform those same searches.

This is a capability we already have with an older product.

Uh, but this is a newer product, it's more robust searching, the the better ability to um visualize that data in the old product is kind of coming end of life, agencies are moving away to it to more modern technology.

So it's upgrading capabilities that we currently have in most of the valley agencies are are moving to this product.

Uh, as far as any sharing of that data that will require a future MOU that'll need to be reviewed.

So it's not the technical capability exists in the system out of the box.

If we went with another solution, we'd have to build that in at additional cost, so it's more cost effective to use this product.

But the actual what field what data would get shared in with whom still has to go to an through an MOU process for review.

And the initial pilot project is again just looking at the existing um uh RMS report writing system and our CAD dispatch system.

Uh we're all we we mentioned the regional data sharing capabilities.

The uh we're working with a number of valley agencies now on this to uh utilize Peregrine collectively is uh is the valley again to replace this older product that I used to be called cop link, it's now called Crime Tracer, but we've been using that for over a decade.

Uh and so it again improves the ability to search against multiple agencies from a single interface and it's replacing the older information sharing tools.

Um with that side, what questions do you have coming for us, council?

Did I read this?

Did I see it right?

This has some state funding attached to it.

Uh yeah, yes, sir.

Uh the state is providing uh I think it's uh 215,800.

Is that right?

Yeah, uh 215,800, which is the purchase price of the system.

So they will completely fund year one.

And and then the obligation past that is dependent on yes, and I apologize.

I I didn't bring up the last slide here.

So ultimately, as we go forward, um, whether we go forward with a second year will depend on is this a successful product?

Is it is it worth the funding?

Is there additional funding available from the state?

This is the second year the state has done this.

It's the first year Mesa's been included, but when they did year two funding and included Mesa, the agencies that had year funding last last year also got year two funding.

So that possibility exists, but we won't know until uh we're a little further through this process.

Uh so um again, just going forward, um, it simplifies data searches, uh finding those relations and the potential for this product or other types like products could also be used outside of the police department by other city departments for other types of uh data correlation searches.

So the idea is to prove this out in the police department with the existing state funding.

Can you give me an example of what that would be?

For example, if you wanted to do permitting data or something like that and be able to um look at that process and better get a view of who's asking for permits for what type of thing or what uh instead of having to do a manual search for that, um, that's just an example off the top of my head that you could use.

So this is like electronic health records for police.

Uh council member Taylor, uh yeah, essentially we have a record management system which does that, and this is just providing uh an easier way to do those searches.

Aggregating.

Yes, ma'am.

And we found 10 about 12 years ago we implemented coupling?

Yes, about that.

About that.

Um, and that was just using our existing records management data.

We found that the these products prov just make it better for our officers and detectives and analysts to look at data we already have.

How many disparate applications do you currently use?

Ooh, I'd have to get you an exact count, council member.

It's a lot, it's a lot.

There's a lot of applications across the police department.

But for this searching, there's there's one application for police reports, there's our dispatch application.

So we don't have multiple applications to write police reports in.

It would it would just be that one.

But what what this will do is act almost like a dashboard search where essentially it's sitting at the top layer and it's reaching out and it's calling out to all these other applications to aggregate that information so you can get your search result.

Once you get your search result, do you still have to go drill back down into said apps so that you can find more information, or will it continue to pull so that you have one window, everything you need?

Uh councilmember, that's exactly what the intent is of the system is to provide that one window with everything.

And you a lot a lot of efficiency gained by that.

And it's only the data sources we uh intentionally connect to, right?

It can't go out to anything other than what we connect.

Is Peregrine Peregrine like Peregrine Falcon Falcon?

Is that right?

Peregrine, yes, ma'am.

Peregrine.

Um, I just lost my train of thought.

Hold on, give me a second.

Uh if you have multiple disparate apps that you currently use, is this like a federal program that we're giving permission?

Those are API calls into all those different applications now.

So now we're, you know, you've got encryption processes that are happening, you're making a call at has who are you?

Yes, you can come in, you can access my information.

Are all of those other apps separate companies that we pay?

Or do we build those in-house?

Are those organic?

Uh uh Councilmember Taylor, the ones we're talking about right now are ones that are third-party applications.

So for example, our records management system and our CAD system are versatilm products.

Yeah.

And we we have them because the the peregrine product is just returning your your data graded.

It doesn't have the functionality and it did you used to dispatch a call or write a report, right?

But it has permission to access all of that data.

So we're are we gonna have to go and basically say, hey, you know, third-party company that we're buying this one particular application for, we're gonna implement this one.

Will you give access to them or are they doing all that work for us?

I mean, uh, it's a combination.

Um in we own that data that's in those systems.

And so we don't own the systems.

We don't we don't own the systems.

No, we lease or or however you you want to phrase it.

So if they make a change, Paragon handles that, or because that can get really hairy when you've got layers of applications, and this one is a license that you lease or you purchase, but they have an internal change that you then have to do a code update for, and then this new one on top says, Oh, I don't recognize that, so I no longer can grab that data and return it in your search.

I mean, if you want to speak more to that, absolutely.

Um, thanks, Vice Mayor and Councilmember.

Um, the way that I envision that would work is basically um the peregrine product, what happens is it would grab data and um kind of uploads it to the cloud, which they host in AWS.

So I imagine that they would have views in um our RMS or CAD data that they're reading.

And um, I don't recall what the upload frequency may be, it could be several times a day, uh, maybe once an hour, and that data is actually copied over into the peregrine cloud, and that's where the data is aggregated.

Right.

But if there's any changes in those disparate applications, who's managing the change, the the updates, the software updates, is it us?

Does our internal IT team do that, or does Peregrine do that?

Peregrine and uh VersaTerm in this case would great.

Would we anticipate upgrades in this year contract or in systems?

Right, yeah.

The VersaTerm are kind of rolling upgrades, but um they don't generally have massive massive database changes, right?

Their functionality changes that wouldn't affect the data in the background.

We're not telling me we're not gonna be accessing the fire department's EMS database as part of this.

No, sir.

This is strictly the police departments records management and CAD data.

Excellent.

Council member.

Um I think uh I don't know if this has any potential improvements on our like public records requests from constituents, residents that ask for, I know we've been working towards getting the timelines uh better over the years.

I know vast many times over the last several years.

Um, but from like individuals asking for police reports or taking a couple weeks towards larger, I know uh files of videos that people ask.

I don't know if this looks at improving, keeping improving that process of public records because I I see on the last slide uh public records request searches, but I'm assuming that's more internally, but I don't know if it helps staff to better timeline-wise, better narrow that gap, uh how long it takes to get public records requests.

Uh council member right, it's a great question.

Um what we envision with that is uh again the idea is just to prove out this technology year one with those two data sources.

However, the more internal data sources we could connect that would be uh potentially subject to public records requests, could improve that process for our criminal justice information division where they go to that single pane of glass, conduct a search and it says here's all your available records.

Today they would go to each of those systems to conduct that search to see what's available.

So it absolutely could impact that process for them.

Okay.

Any questions?

Good.

What is the proposed maintenance cost for this after the pilots done and then uh uh councilmore Taylor?

Uh if it was to proceed with just these existing data sources, uh that 21500 annually, it's a hosted solution.

Okay.

So that would be subscription.

It's a subscription, yes, ma'am.

And we might get year two potentially on yes, ma'am.

So we'll evaluate that as a you know the legislation move forward.

Is this something that we'll ever bring in-house to maintain like our own IT team will be in charge of maintaining this on top of the subscription costs, or because we pay a subscription cost, it's full service outside of us.

Um yes, ma'am, it is full service, and uh, I don't anticipate that we will bring it in-house for support.

Okay, so we don't have to worry about manipulating it.

Is it customizable?

Um, what do you mean by customizable in the like if our police are just like, hey, we need to we need to manipulate this data a little bit more so that we can grab more out of it.

Can Peregrine customize dashboards for us that we maybe want to see particular data points?

Yeah, with that uh with the data that's available, and if we do need more data, we can um contact with uh peregrine and we can obtain more data now with the dashboarding, we can do that in-house, given the data we have available with peregrine.

Okay, okay, thanks.

Cool.

Good to have a council member who has some expertise in this.

Can't wait to see.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, council.

So the only two questions left on the agenda, I believe, that have been raised are both related items 2A and 2B on the study session.

So I guess we can leave the council agenda for Monday and go to item 2A, which is a presentation discussed in prior direction on Mesa Connect transit-oriented development plan.

Once again, this will be on the council's uh agenda on Monday.

Third trip up.

It's like Christmas.

Almost all right.

Morning, Vice Mayor, Council again.

Um Rachel Phillips, assistant planning director with the city.

Um, I'm excited to be here today to walk you through the Mesa Connected Transit Oriented Development Plan that's gonna be on your agenda Monday for action.

Um this is a project that we've been working on for the last couple years, and as a reminder, this um was a result of a grant that we received from the Federal Transit Administration to do land use planning around um transit.

So um, kind of going back to the beginning and explaining what is Mesa Connected.

So Mesa Connected is an acronym that stands for connecting our neighborhoods for next generation, community transit, and economic development.

And it really is the idea of bringing together all of these um these different topics and um kind of um visions to create a complete framework for for land use planning around transit.

So this is a plan that looks at a five-mile transit corridor and really is looking at integrating housing, transportation, economic development, and trying to create a built environment that really um promotes a diverse mix of housing, supports business and business retention, um, strengthen strengthens our business business centers such as Riverview, the Fiesta District, and downtown, looking at revitalizing a lot of our redevelopment areas since this corridor runs through most of our redevelopment areas, um encouraging infill and adaptive reuse in those areas as well, expanding mobility and with transit option, looking at reducing traffic congestion and pollution, and then finally as an opportunity for really enhancing our public spaces and placemaking.

So kind of to the basic of what TOD or transoriented development is, um, at the very core, it's really about building complete walkable communities around public transit.

So, as I was just mentioning, this this really looks at having a mixed um mixed diversity of housing, um, also mixed uses such as residential, commercial, employment, having vibrant walkable communities where you have your buildings close to the street, um, and it's really promoting um that walk by and exposure of businesses.

Um to is built around planned or existing transit.

It includes the incorporation of public spaces to really encourage social interaction and looks at how this can increase economic opportunity by supporting local businesses and really having that vibrant environment.

And I think it's important to talk about what TOD is not.

Because especially with this plan, what we saw is there's often a lot of confusion about this plan being a land use plan that's looking at strategies for the built environment around transit.

This is not a plan for planning transit routes or infrastructure, any capital improvements.

Actually, as part of the grant, that was a stipulation from the FTA is that you cannot use this money to do any sort of infrastructure service planning or capital improvements.

So this is about land use strategies around transit.

It's not specific to any one mode, so it's it's built to work with any sort of transit type.

And to go along with that, it's not standardized.

So when we look at TOD, it's really intended to be tailored to each neighborhood.

And hopefully you'll see that as we go through the presentation.

So the Maksa Connected Corridor, um, this is a five-mile transit route, and if you want to think about it starting up at Mesa Riverview, um, the the corridor extends a half mile on either side of the route, and it goes down uh Dobson Avenue along Southern and then Up Country Club to connect with our light rail.

And this really does touch a lot of the major activity centers within West Mesa.

So we have the Cub Stadium, Mesa Riverview, we also have Banner Desert Medical Center, MCC, we have the old uh Fiesta, um, Fiesta Mall site, and then finally our downtown.

So why did we look at doing transit-oriented development on this corridor?

It really has a lot of components that make it prime for TOD.

Um, one of the most important is that it has one of the highest transit riderships within the city.

So just within this corridor, we have 27% of our overall transit ridership happening here.

And then when we look at some of the socioeconomic characteristics in this corridor, it really has the elements that lend itself to transit ridership.

Um we have over 72,000 residents within the corridor.

They're very diverse.

They're also very young, as could be expected when we have the uh university of college there.

Um we have a lower income population, which once again might correlate to some of that that younger demographics.

We have a high percentage of renters in the corridor and a high proportion of multifamily housing.

So this really lends itself to having transit-oriented development and creating kind of that diverse mixed use environment.

So this is our our project schedule, and you can kind of see here the the various phases that we went through.

The the first being explore, where we really looked at the existing conditions of the corridor, then going into our envisioned phase where we you know reached out to the community and asked what what do you want to see here in the future?

And then our planning phase where we went about coming up with our various strategies and drafting the document, and we're really at the the tail end of that process where we're coming to you on Monday for your um your decision.

So, public engagement, it happens throughout the entire process, all those phases, and you can see on the screen just some of the highlights here.

Um, but we really tried to do a very diverse outreach.

Um we we did a a lot of outreach through mailer, so you can see just in the envision phase, we sent nearly 60,000 postcards out, inviting people to come to open houses.

Um we tried to meet with various stakeholders.

Um we had focus groups with business owners, we had focus groups with special interest groups such as transportation advocates.

Um we met with the MCC student government um body there.

We had pop-up events in neighborhoods, um, and then of course, we had online surveys and public open houses, just that everyone was invited to.

And what we heard from residents during this outreach was um a few key things.

First was that walkability was very important to them in the future.

So they they wanted to have walking and biking options to go to shops, restaurants, and public spaces, but they also wanted to have those be safe.

So they wanted increased shade, safety, and better bicycle routes within the corridor.

The character, protecting the character of these neighborhoods, was very important to them.

So they they really valued the existing diversity and wanted to see that preserved.

They wanted to have context sensitive development.

So kind of the recognition that higher density would be appropriate in some areas, but the desire to protect the existing neighborhoods and really have tailored strategies for that.

And the desire for more amenities in the area, so wanting more public open space, restaurants, retail, and grocery stores that they could walk and bike to.

This is what it is.

It's the Mesa Connected Corridor is a vibrant, connected community that is safe and resilient, easy to move through, seamlessly linked transit, and rich and economic opportunity.

So the plan itself, it consists of five chapters.

So chapter one is our introduction where it really just lays out the purpose of the plan.

It talks about what the planning process was, what the public engagement was, and then outlines how the plan is organized.

Chapter two is an overview of the existing conditions, which is provided in greater detail in the appendices, but this highlights some of the key findings about population, economy, mobility, housing, and so on.

Chapter three, that's where the vision is established, and we also have uh five guiding principles and corridor-wide strategies within that chapter.

Chapter four is about transit node planning, which I'll go into greater detail next on.

And then finally, chapter five is the implementation and action plan where we actually start discussing actions that will help implement some of the strategies outlined in the plan.

So transit node planning, chapter four is a large part of the plan.

So I wanted to spend more time explaining it because it does um there's a couple different components in it.

So we talk about transit node classifications, we have a transit node evaluation and a TOD continuum tool, and then there's also transit node profiles for the 11 proposed transit nodes.

So on the screen, you can see a map of the corridor, and there's the 11 proposed transit nodes there.

Um I really want to try to go back to this concept of of this being context sensitive and tailored to each one of these transit nodes.

So as you can see, some of these nodes are in some of our regional destinations.

We we have a node up by Riverview, which we have a lot of entertainment, shopping.

You'll also see that kind of activity most likely happening at the future Fiesta Mall site.

But then we have stops along the corridor that are very different in character.

And for example, one of those would be university in Dobson, which is near a lot of residential, um much smaller commercial areas, so a little commercial node.

So when we when I'm going through this and talking about our strategies, we want to make sure that we're tailoring those to each one of those areas and not just applying a one-size-fits-all approach.

So the first way for us to do that was to develop transit node classifications where we really go through and identify what the characteristics of each one of these stations are and how they will fit into a greater framework for future planning.

So the first one of those are neighborhood transit nodes, and and these are really your compact community-oriented hubs.

You have your smaller scale retail office, some small to medium density housing, such as duplexes, townhomes and apartments.

But these areas really just provide your everyday goods and services.

And then we have what's kind of in between, which is your urban transit node.

So this is a little higher intensity.

It's a mixed use hub as well, medium density, but now we start incorporating some employment nooses alongside retail and also medium density housing.

But you might start seeing some higher density housing there with some higher rise condos or apartments.

But once again, we want to make sure that these areas are providing a walk everywhere experience.

And then the most intense of these is the regional transit node, and these are really intended to be your primary economic, cultural, and entertainment hubs.

And the examples I gave you were Riverview and the future Fiesta Mall site.

So we're really looking at you'd have your large format office, you would have your employment centers, destination retail and entertainment there, and a dense mix of housing.

And this is really meant to attract and have a vibrant environment.

So the next aspect of this was a transit node evaluation.

So we went through and we conducted an evaluation of each one of these transit nodes.

And this was really meant to assess how prepared they are for TOD and for transit oriented growth in those areas.

So we looked at three different metrics, the first one being TOD characteristics, which you'll see the measures on each one of these kind of on the on the side of the screen.

But the TOD characteristics really looks at the built environment, how it is now, and how how prepared it is really to support TOD or to really to meet the characteristics of TOD now.

So how how close are those buildings to the street, how dense is or how intense is the development within those areas, what kind of mixture of uses exist in those nodes right now.

The next metric is the redevelopment potential.

So this really just looks at various characteristics that indicate how likely the area is to redevelop.

So example of that are the number of parcels there, the number of owners, what is the value of the land.

So this starts to indicate the possibility that they could be consolidated and redeveloped, or if it's so diverse and in mixed ownership that it would be harder for that to happen.

The last one is transit readiness, which looks more at the socioeconomic characteristics there.

So looking at the number of residents, looking at kind of if they're minority population, what's the if they're a low income, what is that household earning, because that starts to indicate if that population is likely to use transit more or not.

So this tool, as I said, it was meant to give us an idea of these areas, how ready they are for transit-oriented development, and but it's also meant to be something that we can use over time because if any development, redevelopment occurs in these nodes, it can change a lot of these metrics.

So we can use this as time goes on to reevaluate these areas and really tailor different approaches and incentives to try to encourage TOD there.

So in the plan, we provided transit node profiles for each one of the 11 proposed transit nodes, and and this is uh just an example of what these uh sections look like.

So, first you have an introduction of each where it talks about the existing conditions in the area.

It talks about what kind of the the future vision is for those, and um and talks about what we saw from that from that TOD metric evaluation and what are some of the strategies that we can employ there.

Then we have uh snapshot information info for each, so you can see a map of the existing conditions and and some of the the prominent developments that you see there today.

Um it gives an overview of the general plan place type for the area, the zoning, it gives you what the mix of land use is as well, the population, employment in that area, um, as well as those continuum scores.

And then we have an illustrative concept plan.

So this is it's just one development scenario.

It's not meant to be how exactly the area should uh develop.

It's just to give you an idea of what this might look like might look if we were to redevelop it into more of a transit oriented development.

And then finally, um, we have design considerations.

So we provided uh specific considerations that that could be taken into account to make this more TOD ready.

So, as I mentioned, this is gonna be on the agenda for for Monday night for action, and then um the next step in this is really the implementation of the plan.

And one of the major pieces of that is um doing a text amendment.

So um what what staff has been working on so far is is the concept of a TOD overlay to really um develop some specific development standards for the area.

Um there's also you know been the idea that this might be a good approach for for redevelopment over why overall.

So we're having conversations with urban um transformation about how we might be able to use this a little um wider throughout the city, and so we're we're still working through that, and that would be something that would be coming to council in the future.

Um, but that is the end of the presentation, and I'm happy to answer any questions if you have them.

Thank you.

Before uh I think I'll start with council member Duff, I think, and then Mr.

Heredia, but before I I've been going through the um you know, the action steps, and what I find is interesting is there's some really um really intriguing ones.

Uh create an environment uh no, not that one.

Create a demolition assistance program to support the redevelopment of the corridor.

Um that is a really interesting one.

I think if that is done as part of this project to see how that might apply in some other areas that extend beyond where this study is, because I'm sure there are some there's some properties that are have been blighted for a long time.

Um also to the retail and small businesses that are necessary, having those that small business support is really uh critical to redeveloping these areas.

So I I see that some of those programs being able to or projects being able to be extended just beyond the scope of where this study was.

So does anyone on my left um because this is more with the well it's West Mesa for the plan wanna begin?

Sure, if we don't want to recover for what I get her out of the way.

Oh ma'am, I of course, you know, I'm I'm a geek about uh um planning and development, urbanization and all that kind of stuff.

So, yes, I did read the entire plan, uh the in all the impendings, uh that's what a nine-hour flight will provide for you.

Um I'm of course um very supported.

I think this is really a boost uh to the area, and it's gonna make it more cohesive and the connected plan, pulling together West Mesa.

We have such gems as the Asian district and banner as an employer and MCC with all the students they and now our new project at the old Fiesta site is really going to pull this together and give so much opportunity for this infill and the walkability and make it really uh a people place.

I I appreciate like I said, page 217, that's probably the appendix.

Um is building a place, not a project.

And I think this could be very, very powerful for West Mesa, including the downtown as an economic engine and enhanced uh quality of life for West Mesa.

This is a long time in coming for West Mesa.

We've been waiting for downtown, we've been waiting for Fiesta, we've been waiting for cul de sac um size 17, right?

All these projects and things are coming together.

We're getting getting a sprouts in district three.

I don't have to drive nine miles anymore.

So uh there's these things are coming together.

So having a plan that pulls it all together and makes it work is is smart planning, and it's an enhanced quality of life and the economics will boom.

Um, I've looked at following other areas of the uh the valley, especially Phoenix, because they're going through uh TOD development plan right now.

And um in Phoenix and Tempe alone, um they've seen uh a return on investment.

Tempe experienced uh $7 billion worth of investment from their TOD plan.

Uh Phoenix 12 billion.

I know in downtown with just this, we're a little bit slower going over a billion in just the downtown.

But the reason that it we have why it's so important to have this plan in place, it gives um uh developers, um, see areas around permanent transit investments as low risk because it ensures foot traffic and accessibility, predictable rental demand, and a future public investment.

Um so and it pulls this all together again.

West Mesa has been um suffering.

We've had strong community um feedback to support the mixed use, the walkable development, shade, green spaces.

Um I love that it has the transit nodes, so each area of this um land use plan is a um considering the uh uh the surrounding area and melding together, so we're not just saying it's gonna all be the same, and whatever plans we have will fit in the same density, the same um uses, whatever.

We're they're being constructed and customized according to the area in the transit nodes, and I think that's very rich.

Um we Dobson Road is our busiest corridor in the city, and it has the most crashes.

We have no more land to expand to increase the traffic there.

Do we want to increase the traffic?

No, I know that's getting a little bit more into the transit.

This is just a way to have planned growth.

Um I think from my conversations with Asian district, uh uh Councilmember Haredi can expand on this a little bit with Asian district.

Um I understand with the new Fiesta development with MCC and banner, support this kind of growth in order to be able to really connect the surrounding area and make it more mobile and a richer area and better quality of life.

Um you know, and it's gonna boost our sales tax dollars that we depend on to fund our city and quality of life overall for the entire city.

Uh we depend very heavily on sales tax, and whatever we can do and creating environments that boost that is very important to our bottom line.

Um I think that's about it for right now.

It's an overall.

Mr.

Heretti.

Well, council member Duff took a lot of the the information I was gonna share, but I I think for us uh in West Mesa thing.

I go back to why this corridor, the slide uh on seven, page seven thing.

You look at um faster projected growth, uh, two times faster than citywide this area, right?

You look at high rate of renters, right?

Um in the high proportion multifamily housing because of the of the infrastructure there, right?

It's it's built out.

There's very little areas that you can build, you know, single-family homes or those kinds of things, right?

So the need to create um options for the future is is the reason why this quarter makes sense.

And you know, thank you for staff and the consultants and other folks that worked on this.

It was a long time coming, right?

So it was a lot of conversation, a lot of public outreach that was happening that happened, a lot of conversations that I had uh with folks, uh stakeholders, and then uh the TOD this the study highlights the need for this area uh to create a plan that is future forward, right?

Future-facing um in how we um look at this strategically, uh, as Rachel mentioned, these these nodes along the way, it's being developed in you know, not one size fits all, but looking at it strategically on what makes sense and and with the recent announcement of what we pass as councilmember summers and councilmember dubbed mentioned at Fiesta, I think the status quo, we can maintain the status quo in this area, right?

Uh keep it as as is, it is not is not a director for the future for for us and for West Mesa.

And so I think that's the important aspect of what we have to realize that more people, right?

Uh you know, had up to 4,000 units at Fiesta Mall, right?

Um, and so that amount of people, we need options for people to travel and have placemaking opportunities across this area.

And so that's that's gonna be uh an important integral part of how we develop a strategy to tackle our future in this area, right?

We can't maintain what is there for the life of the small businesses, right?

We're we're seeing great improvements in the Asian district, some slow improvements in Riverview, right?

We're adding more people there, and the potential to add more opportunity more people at Riverview itself is there, and so in order for us to maintain momentum over the next decade or so, I think we need to look at this strategically in this TOD study is a great start and opportunity to do that, right?

As we develop uh future plannings for this this area, right?

And so that's where for me this is an exciting aspect, a culmination of you know, the last eight years I've been on council as figure trying to figure out, right?

We had one of the most blighted properties on Almusclen Southern that had been you know gated for 20 plus years, uh, that nobody they didn't want to do anything with it, right?

And so uh we we finally got an agreement.

Was it the best?

No, but it was a start, and now we're seeing who would have thought a sprouts would come right next to it.

Nobody in the right mind would have thought Almas going southern would have a sprouts coming in to that area, but you look that is the the successes of looking ahead of what we can build uh for our residents.

Um, and so this is again a great start, a great um opportunity for us to look comprehensive, but also strategic in these areas.

Uh, as we noted, Fiesta Mall, NCC, you know, they're rebounding with uh student population is the largest community college in the district in the valley.

Uh Banner Desert or Desert uh Banner Desert uh is the most uh the busiest hospital in in their system.

Uh you have the Asian districts.

We have over 80 restaurants, grocery stores in that two mile radius in the Asian district, and then Riverview and the Cub Stadium, right?

It it makes perfect sense as as you look at the whole area, right?

And there's other close pieces, right?

Evet has you know thousands of students that come in every day right next to you know, main end opsin, right?

And so you have all these components, and then plus looking at how do we interact with our partners like Tempe, right?

Because you know, there are real salado from uh rural to Tempe Marketplace, they're gonna potentially add, I think what I heard over 50,000 people there uh over the next 20 plus years.

And so that uh they need places to go, right?

They can't all intake in those areas, so we need to make sure that we they also come to the Asian district, they come to Riverview, right, to shop and spend their money here.

So it's it's uh it's a way to look at how do we uh set us up for success for the future.

So all that end that there.

Very good.

To my right, anyone?

We go we'll go straight across.

Thank you.

Yeah, I um thank you for all the work over the last couple years.

I know this has been a lot.

Um I think I think this is an important project because this um it's important to know this is an existing corridor.

This the um characteristics of this corridor are happening or have been happening organically.

Um it's young, it's a lot of people who rent who are mobile, um, that may not have a car, that obviously are and and because of that, um, there's a high ridership.

Um, and that's all been taking place, and which is really cool to see, and uh there's a lot of it actually through as both council members um mentioned through in this corridor with the Fiesta District and the Asian district, and it happening on its own.

And so I think this is a good time, and and the city has taken a kind of a step back approach to allowing that to happen.

And it's now a good time to step in and do some planning to um really kind of put some parameters around in the first in the first sense, put parameters around and protect some of those existing characters and and look at this context specific.

And at the same time, um make it easier for it to continue forward as it already has, right?

So I think we're doing both of those in this plan, and I think that that that's really important.

And to help us as a city capitalize on what's already happening, right?

In a transit corridor, you really want to make it easier to build wealth for the people that are there and the businesses, right?

And I think that that's what this plan does.

And then I the last thing I would I'd like to say is that it's extremely important and for all of us to remember the feedback that came from the people that live there.

This that's where this plan is is derived from and will be implemented from, and uh was written in um with in a reflection of what the people who live there and work there and own business there want, and so that's extremely important, and I think you've done a good job of your engagement and and reflecting uh what they desire for their community in this area.

So thank you.

Councilmember.

Well, this is our really big plan, and I'm very new to the council.

Um I have taken a little bit of time and looked over it, but I haven't had the opportunity to ask a lot of questions around it.

Um it's pretty extensive.

And my first question might be geared for Jim.

I'm not quite sure, but um, what would it look like to delay this?

Because I need to do a lot of research before I can just cast a vote on this, and because I wasn't a part of so much of this and able to do that research.

So, mayor and council, I'd defer to planning on what other steps that they're looking at, and also obviously a number of council members that I've been here have been waiting for this for literally years, I think.

Yeah, um Vice Mayor, Councilmember Taylor.

So we do have a a pass-through agreement through Phoenix because they they manage the the regional grants that we get from the FTA.

So we do have a deadline to close out the grant by the end of February.

So that means that we have to get in all of our final paperwork and have to have gone to council for their action about a month before that.

Um so we are really approaching kind of that that deadline there.

So January would be the latest, yes, in a sense.

Okay.

I might need that because this is quite a bit.

Um I think it's great that we have a plan that we're putting together for transportation and for urban development.

Because I'm so new to this, I just have a few questions.

Is this kind of like if you build it, they will come idea?

So I was looking at the numbers that you provided, and I noticed that, for example, the average income is 20,000 less than the majority of Mesa.

Um, your outreach was great, but I noted that, and this is just because I'm a numbers girl, you had a 0.08 response rate from the 58,000 mailers, the Facebook feedback, um, I think there was uh some town halls, etc.

If I take the 72,000 residents and I look at the 455 respondents, that leaves me with a 0.0063% feedback rate.

Um, and this is a really big plan for such a small amount of community feedback and where you want to go with it.

And that's why I don't necessarily feel like I may not have the full picture and an adequate scope to uh make a good assessment on it.

Um so I know I have done some research, but I don't know if I've done enough, and I have a lot of questions around you know, such a small amount of community feedback for such a very large transportation and community development plan.

And I you mentioned a grant, and I understand that we have some money coming from a grant, but there's numbers questions I have around like what is this potentially costing Mesa to implement some of this plan.

Um the residents that I've talked to want to know, of course, and I don't you can answer this now.

Is are we already assuming that the train track train cars connecting from Tempe running past Sloan Park and then potentially running through the Dobson corridor?

Um, or is that open to multiple types of transportation?

Are we taking up a portion of the road in order to do that?

Like, are there already future plans in process for some of this?

Yeah, and I don't want to necessarily have to tackle all those right here right now, but we can if we want to.

Um council member Taylor, I can try to answer some of those right now.

Um, as far as the public outreach, when we do any sort of planning projects, text amendments, I think you'll you'll see that it's really hard to get public engagement and involvement in those.

So that's why we try to use multiple different avenues to engage the public, like going out to them directly, having smaller focus groups, having the larger open houses.

And for your sake, um council member Taylor.

So even though the engagement in this period of time may seem, which again, you'll see it is actually pretty good when you look at it.

Um but they have been they have been representing this area for seven years.

So they definitely know, and I would suggest you talk with definitely talk to them.

Yeah.

I think that would be a good part of it.

Um Vice Mayor Council, if I if I could also step in on the the community engagement.

I think that one of the important things that we did was we provided that opportunity.

And typically in any kind of engagement process, those are probably some of the most important things you can do is those opportunities.

So there were the pop-ups, there were the focus groups, there was the online survey.

Getting people to engage is not something that we can do, but I think if you look at the outreach program we did, it was very diverse, and we tried as many avenues as we could to bring in the the input.

I think the input we did get was very positive about the plan.

I think the especially from a lot of the businesses, um, the the people who are living in that that vicinity.

So outreach is always a challenge because you can't make people participate, but I think because we diversified the type of outreach we had, we gave people a lot of opportunity to participate.

So I guess that's what I would say to the outreach.

And Rachel, if I could about the if you build it, they would come.

It's important to know we're not building anything here.

This is a land use plan, so this is just a land use plan that will turn into text amendments and design standards and guidelines to try to encourage future development and private investment.

So we're not building anything.

This wasn't predicated on any specific type of transit.

We're not looking at the transit itself.

This is all about the land use outside of that right-of-way outside of the road, outside of the if it if any transit does come in.

It's a land use plan to set up opportunities for people to be able to live in in specific areas where investment is incurring and for investment to occur.

So there's no cost associated with the the adoption of this plan.

As we start implementing the plan, um, the zoning again will hopefully set up the that framework to encourage investment in that area from our our private partners.

Thank you.

Is it is it kind of a living document in that things can change, they can evolve however you would want to.

Yeah, Vice Mayor Council, every plan we do is a living document.

The worst thing you can do is develop a plan and then assume that it's gonna stay like that forever because cities are are very organic, right?

So that's why we come before council as planning.

You you see us a lot because all of those things are changing, the way we implement things, the way we regulate things, the way we plan things.

So you that's why I think council sees a lot from the planning division because it is organic, it has to evolve as things evolved.

And I think Councilmember Goldforth brought up a good point.

A lot of this was happening anyway, and now what we're trying to do is capture that as we start to look at how do we really capture that to make sure that this area continues to grow?

Yeah.

And and so Mary mentioned a little bit on this, but the plan does not bind the city to any financial obligations or investments.

Um they are land use strategies and the actions are programs or text amendments that we would come to council in the future for your approval on.

Um so there is no binding effect of approving the plan.

Is that including like zone zoning ordinances?

That's yes.

Okay.

Um I'll note if I can intercede.

Does it bind the private property owner that owns the property, whether they have to comply with all this or um change zoning?

Vice Mayor Summers, no, the the plan does not affect the zoning.

That would be through future text amendments.

Um, and that would be the the overlay that I had mentioned, and that would come before council.

And the the approach that we're considering right now is something similar to the form-based code where it would be in optional opt-in.

Um, so it would be a tech corridor kind of right, right, right.

Correct.

So we would not go out and rezone properties.

It it would be something that they could voluntarily opt in to use that might be a little more streamlined and have deaf different development standards that could result in higher densities in some areas, not all, because once again, we talked about these different nodes and note types.

Sorry to Stephanie, it just seemed like an opportunity.

No, it's a great question.

I mean, this is a lot of information to take in, and I I would like time, obviously, to speak with council members, heradia, and dove in more detail.

Um I think my concern is just you know, if I'm like, yes, let's do it, then what have I in an uneducated fashion locked myself into, and I do not want to be that person on the council?

So I'm trying to gather information, like literally right now, and read over it amongst all the other amazing things on this agenda and make an informed decision that encourages some of the vision that my other council members have, but also that I can include my own vision for with all of Mesa, including district two, you know.

These they may have questions as well.

I'm more the voice for district two, which really is not as involved in this, but they have their own assumptions, their own ideas, and I need to be able to go to them and say, hey, this is where you were right, this is where you were wrong.

Um, so you know what I mean?

So with that being said, um, I guess my overall question, maybe for you or might be Mary, but if I say if I vote yes to approve this plan, and I find out, whoa, there's some things in here that are kind of jarring and shocking, this is flexible, right?

These are things that can change, or these are these are not laws that we're just voting in on these this right?

Um, Vice Mayor Council I'm thinking about how concrete is this?

So, as a as a plan, what this does is it it provides guidance for us, right?

So there's there's nothing concrete that you are our um committing to in terms of building or a tax of zoning tax amendment.

We're going to come forward every time we're we're implementing any of the actions that are in the action plan.

So you'll see the last chapter is that action plan, and those are some of the specific tools we want to use to help to revitalize the area.

But anything that requires any kind of action by by council, we would come before you.

So this is just laying the vision and the foundation so we can then start moving through to implement those to again capture all of the good things that are happening in this corridor.

Okay.

And and to that point, I'm gonna point one out because I I've been highlighting the action plan.

I think if you go through that, that's a really good place to start.

So I I provided a few examples of things that I really like.

Demolition, for example, demolition plan.

But here's here's one that I would assume this is not set in stone, and this would be a conversation for council, but consider expanding the billboard overlay district.

You already know what my vote's going to be on that.

I assume that just because that's in this plan that that is not that would have to come back to council for a discussion and a vote, correct?

Correct.

Vice Mayor Summers.

And so the the idea behind that is we've seen this tool used in other cities, and when we say billboard, it's from the operational idea that it would be allowing advertisements of off-site goods and services.

Um, but what we've seen this tool used for in other cities is almost like the the big screen that you see at ASU, that in certain areas, such as maybe the Fiesta district, that you allow those larger signs, but there's an obligation that they pay into a fund that would pay for placemaking or public art in that district.

Um, so any any sort of idea like that would be coming to council for the and and I I think I said this in that conversation.

There's a difference between, for example, what they did in New York City and in Times Square and just endless rows of billboards that I absolutely and I don't think we're talking about.

I think that nobody is part of this plan.

That's correct.

I think what we're talking about, and actually I think the city of Denver is one that has used strategically placed off site advertising to fund public art throughout the city.

So that's what we're talking about.

Absolutely.

This is just an example of something I don't like that's in this, but doesn't necessarily have to come to fruition because it is a working plan and we would have to see these things.

And we would have this conversation when you came back to I would I hate that.

Further discussions can be had.

On 112, yes, yes.

On one twelve, it says incentivize or require low impact development.

What is features in new projects?

What is that?

Do you know off top of your head?

Low impact development um refers to water and wastewater.

So it it talks, it's about green infrastructure.

Um, so bio swells and things.

So trying to get private developers to use more of those tools as a sustainability feature.

Okay.

I didn't pick it out of context, so thank you.

Any more comments, questions on this?

I do have just one quick question.

Um, this the study that was done for the corridor, the transportation, the transit corridor.

Was that funded by our taxpayers, or was that funded?

Was that money that was granted to us?

That was just our money that came back to us.

Like, how did how did we do this study?

How did because I had people when I was campaigning, they were like, How did we pay for this study?

And I don't know, I don't have an answer for them.

Yeah.

Vice Mayor, um, Councilmember Taylor.

Can you can you are you talking about this specific study or the opening for me?

But maybe I can borrow yours.

Is five-mile transit route.

This the street study.

Yeah, the streeters.

I think that's what I'm looking at.

So that U-shape vice mayor, Councilmember Taylor.

That U-shape you see on the screen is a recommendation from two separate studies.

Um, one is the Fiesta District Alternative Analysis, which the City of Mesa did and completed, I think in 2021, and the other one was the Tempe Mesa streetcar feasibility analysis study, feasibility study, which was also completed in 2021.

Both those studies were funded by proposition for proposition 400, which is um for another four weeks, our regional transportation sales tax.

Um that funds for highways, transit, transit, and transportation.

So we didn't have any local money in those those two studies.

Okay, regional transportation tax.

Okay, yeah.

So in and Prop 400 sunsets on December 31st, and then prop proposition 479 was passed by voters last November, and that will start collecting funds then.

Okay.

Thank you.

I can give them a cogent answer now.

Okay, that was my one question for that, and then approach it.

Hold on, just making sure I have all of those.

Oh, I was asked for public outreach with some of this because I have residents who dived into this pretty deeply.

Um, how how long did the public outreach go for?

I want to be able to answer this question.

How long was that done?

Over what span of time.

So let me get to that slide.

So it council member Taylor, it really occurred throughout the whole process.

So we kicked this off in 2023, and that's when we we started the public outreach portion of it.

So it's been going on to this point, and currently the draft plan is posted on our website, and there's feedback forms that people can fill out fill out and provide us feedback.

We've only received five from the public.

Okay, kind of all right.

Um for now.

Okay.

That was very helpful.

Thank you.

Thank you, everyone who answered all my questions.

Absolutely.

So we have one more item on the agenda to cover that's on our e-bike code update.

I'm going to uh give us uh five to ten minute recess so folks can uh take a bit of a break and we'll come back in about 10.

Very good.

Thank you.

Okay.

No, in 10 minutes.

10 minutes.

So many bring.

952.

We'll come back into our uh study session.

And so this is item 2B, if I recall, e-bike code updates and communication strategy.

So who would like to lead off?

Awesome.

Good morning, Vice Mayor and Council.

We're excited to be here to talk about these proposed updates to the city code to start to allow e-bikes in parks as well as our communication strategy around this.

So this will be introduced to council on Monday, and then the final vote would occur on January 12th.

Before we jump into the presentation, we'll start with some introductions, and I'll have Andrea Stardus.

Andrea Moore, Director for Parks Rec and Community Facilities.

And I'm Haley Smith, the support services administrator for parks, rec and community facilities.

Uh Lieutenant Ryan Stokes on the traffic lieutenant for Mesa PD.

And Captain Jim Barnhart, I'm the safety officer from ASAFIR Medical.

As you can tell, this is a team effort.

It requires a lot of different departments.

So I'm grateful to have everyone up here to present today.

So just an overview of where we're going with this discussion.

We're gonna start with a conversation about what our city code currently says, and then also take a look at what other cities are doing with regards to e-bikes and e-scooters in their parks.

Then we'll specifically talk about the different updates that we're proposing to the city code.

But we also wanted to take this opportunity to talk about the vandalism that we're seeing at the parks related to e-bikes and e-scooters, as well as different safety concerns, because we want to wrap all of this into our communication strategy to just build more community awareness around e-bikes and the proper usage of them if these updates are approved.

Um so then we'll discuss our communication strategy around that, as well as end with our enforcement strategy.

So currently, e-bikes are not allowed in City of Mesa Parks.

Only non-motorized bikes are allowed.

And it's also currently the law that if you're riding an e-bike.

Sorry, it I know it's early.

Can you define an e-bike for us?

Just so we we can start with that.

Yes, we can definitely start with that.

Uh so when we're talking about e-bikes, there's a couple different classifications.

So for an e-bike to be defined per city code as well as ARS, it has to have the ability to pedal is one factor.

And then there's class one, two, and three.

If you want to go to the next, the next slide.

These this will kind of break down.

So a class one e-bike has a max speed of 20 miles an hour while pedaling assist.

A class two e-bike, you can use throttle only, but it still has to have the ability to pedal.

And then a class and with a maximum speed limit of 20 miles an hour, and then a class three with pedal assists can reach up to 28 miles an hour.

So there's the three different classes of e-bikes, a class one, they all have to have pedals, they all have to be able to pedal.

Class two is the only one that can propel itself with the battery only without pedaling.

So if you're on a bike that has pedals and you're not pedaling, that would be a class two e-bike.

And then the speed for the class three goes up to 28 miles an hour.

That's helpful.

Do you know off the top of your head, or maybe we could do some quick research what the average speed of a regular bicycle would be for a rider?

For a pedal bike?

Yeah.

So what is a what is the average pedal bike, no e, you know, no battery, how fast do can riders go?

I know from some cycling experience, if you're gonna average 20 miles an hour on a pedal bike, that is that is really fast to be able to maintain for more than a mile or two.

Yeah.

Most of the bikes that we would see, I would say, are anywhere in the neighborhood of between 10 and 15 miles an hour.

Okay, or just pedal only.

10 to 15 miles an hour.

That's a good number.

Okay, thank you.

So right now, e-bikes are not allowed in Mesa Parks.

And riders also have to be 16 years of age or older in order to ride an e-bike or in Mesa.

And that's because they understand the basic rules of the road and ride-of-way at this point because we're expecting that 16-year-olds have a driver's license and they would have gone through driver's ed.

And we also have a 15 mile per hour speed limit on our shared use paths.

So that's our canal paths.

So in looking at other cities, we're not alone in starting to allow e-bikes in our parks.

And looking at Gilbert, Scottsdale, and Tempe, they all do allow e-bikes in their parks with certain caveats, like whether it's they can only be certain classes or Tempe requires the motor to be disengaged if you're going to be in the park using an e-bike.

We're seeing that all the cities that we looked at, Gilbert, Scottsdale, Tempe, Phoenix, and Chandler have age requirements around e-bikes, but Tempe was the only one that has a helmet requirement.

So this is just an overview of the updates that we're proposing to the city code, and then we'll dive into each of these updates a little bit deeper as we move through the presentation.

So first we're adding definitions for e-bikes and the different classes that Lieutenant Stokes talked about, and then we're also differentiating between what's a motor vehicle versus what's a motorized electric vehicle.

Because right now the parks code only classifies motorized vehicles in general, so we want to pull out and have clear definitions for each of those.

Then we'll also be clearly defining a class one, two, and three e-bikes in this code as well.

And then these updates would allow just class one and class two e-bikes, as well as e-scooters in the parks.

So class three would not be allowed in the parks wherever bikes are allowed.

And there are a few caveats with this that they must be operated safely, and we're proposing a five mile per hour speed limit within the parks that would be added to the traffic code, as well as a helmet requirement for riders under 18 that would be added to the traffic code.

And then we're also proposing to change multi-use path to shared use path and the parse code just to fall in line with the rest of the traffic code language that's used for that.

So currently on our shared use pass or canal pass, we have a 15 mile per hour speed limit, and then we're proposing adding a new speed limit requirement within the park of five miles per hour for class one and class two e-bikes and e-scooters.

Just one more clarification on the definition.

So an e-bike also has to be under 750 watts.

So a lot of the ones that we see out on the road are these electric motorcycles that don't have pedals.

Those will be classified as motorcycles, not in this discussion for e-bikes.

These are ones that specifically can have the have the ability to pedal.

So they we have to see pedals on this bike.

It's not like a moped.

Yes, you have to see pedals and it has to have the ability to be able to pedal and propel it.

Council member?

Yeah, I have a question.

So the our shared use paths, the canal pass and other shared use paths, are not in the park system, right?

They're part of transportation, isn't that correct?

So we're kind of mixing two things here, I think.

Because when you go to transportation, transportation has standards for those because they're a transportation mode.

And now we're making them part of the parks.

Council members am I confusing that for the the shared use paths have always existed in parks code in terms of rules for how to operate and function on those.

So the maintenance of them is different.

Transportation maintains them.

The funding source is typically related to multimodal transportation, and they're maintained by the transportation department because of the commonality between streets and straight uh sidewalks, essentially next to the canals and lighting maintenance that can be done with similar equipment, uh, street sweeping, things like that.

But the regulations regarding the use of them have always been in parks code.

That doesn't make sense to me, but I that might be.

I mean, especially if they're built to a transportation standard, it doesn't make sense to me that would then we would regulate them in parks.

But I'll I'll I'll think about that as as we move through this.

Thanks.

I covered most of this, but this just gives you a breakdown of the top speed that each class is the max speed currently where they're allowed in parks and updating what what the new code would allow them.

The class, the bicycle class E one, two, and three is as far as, and as well as the electric mini scooter, just a little differential between the electric mini scooter, electric mini scooter goes up to 30 pounds.

Some of the bigger scooters, an electric stand-up scooter has a max weight of 75 pounds, like a bird scooter, like how much it actually weighs the actual device, not the people riding.

Thank you.

I think you saw my that's really small.

And so then here are those clear definitions that we're adding to with these city code updates as to clearly define a motor vehicle and then a motorized electric vehicle, and then the highlighted in blue motorized electric vehicles would be the ones that would be allowed in the parks with these updates.

And so the city code updates would also include more information on what it means to operate safely within the park.

One of those is watching the speed, which includes that five mile per hour speed limit within the parks.

It also details that you need to primarily be using these e-bikes or e-scooters on sidewalks, not on playground equipment, benches or tables.

They need to be yielding to the ride-of-way of pedestrians or people using a mobility device, and then we also have that helmet requirement for riders under the age of 18, and a reminder that riders must be 16 years or older, which is already the law.

We are seeing damage across our parks from different types of motor vehicles and motorized electric vehicles, and so part of this public outreach campaign is to build more community awareness around the different types of vandalism that we're seeing to start addressing that within our park system.

We have included some images here that we're seeing across the system, which can include ruts in the dirt or burnout on equipment or basketball courts, and some of these are newly painted basketball courts or newly installed equipment, and so we we recognize the need to bring more community and public awareness around this and help reduce these vandalism incidents.

And so we we recognize the need to bring more community and public awareness around this and help reduce these vandalism incidents.

Can you clarify what type do we know what type of scooter, vehicle, battery operated whatever is causing this damage?

So a lot of uh Vice Mayor Council, a lot of the damage is caused by scooters, e-scooters specifically, because um you can create some of those burnouts more easily on something like that.

So they're holding the scooter down, revving up the throttle and burning out.

So this isn't this isn't e-bikes then.

E-bikes isn't causing this damage, or they definitely could, but we see it more with the scooters and the electric motorcycles.

Okay.

But the e-bike e-bikes.

Okay.

An e-bike weighs significantly more than a scooter.

Am I right on that?

Yes.

Because so it's it's probably harder to burn out on an e-bike or go down a slide than on a scooter.

I well definitely is for me.

I'm too old for that.

I've seen kids pop wheelies on the scooters in our neighborhood.

Yeah, that I've seen.

Chief.

Yeah.

Uh Vice Mayor and Council members, uh, I think our role in this is a little bit more uh with the community outreach.

Uh the fire department has caught up to lithium ion emergencies, much like you, sir.

I would have told you 27 years ago, I wouldn't have spent this much time uh dealing with lithium-ion batteries.

Uh but in the regards to where we had gaps was how to own them, how to operate them safely, right?

And most of our hazards we deal with uh is usually gonna be associated with improper usage, improper storage, improper uh charging.

So when we look at the the problem overall with the batteries for us, is it's the rapid propagation of fire, like how fast it develops and the extreme toxic nature of it.

Um it is it it when we first started looking at lithium ion emergencies, it was common to hear, well, all house fire toxic, all house fire smoke is toxic.

This is a little bit different, it's just different chemical makeups.

Um we're looking at batteries and really the micromobility is how we classify this, or personal electronics.

Um, we want to recommend you know that the owners look for changes in the shape of the batteries if they smell an oat or they see temperature changes, right?

If it's color or leaking anything, those are signs that there's an impending problem coming, right?

And it could develop pretty quickly.

If we can play the video, it's quick five seconds here.

Just shows you how fast a fire goes from an incipient phase to flash over where we get to three-dimensional fire burning in every aspect of that compartment, right?

So if you think of charging an e-bike or a scooter in your your house, your apartment, a lot of times they charge them, they don't want to do damage uh to the carpet or the flooring, so they charge it real close to the door on the tile or the entryway.

Um you have that scooter fire happen in the doorway of your apartment, and you have no other way to get out of your occupancy.

So next slide, please.

Too late, we were gonna blow something up again.

All right.

So in as if we go to changing ordinances within the city and we're communicating out to our communities, we're trying to take every opportunity we can right now just to get public messaging of how to safely operate and charge these batteries.

So some of the call common ones are you know, follow the instructions, buy original equipment from the manufacturer.

Um, if your laptop battery goes bad, don't buy the cheap one you can find on Amazon, buy the one supplied by the manufacturer.

Um, charge with the appropriate cords.

You know, I tell everybody don't buy the cord at QT.

No, no offense to the business owner, but you don't want to buy that cord because it wasn't manufactured and designed for the wattage or voltage for the device that you're trying to use it on.

So out of convenience, sometimes don't take that opportunity.

There are bags you can buy that you can they're supposedly for safety.

You can put your battery charger in there, hook it up, seal the bag.

Do those work?

Have we seen any testing on them?

They do NRPA or UL.

Um we use the the some of the the insulating medium in there's called the product that we purchase called cell block.

So that thermally insulates that battery.

It doesn't take the toxic nature away from it.

But if it continues to go in thermal runaway now inside that package, the heat is being absorbed by that.

It's it's more of a kitty litter vermiculite type material.

So it kind of melts like a glass and kind of encompasses that battery.

So they do work on, yeah.

I would like to see it's a unique hazard.

I would like to see, so you're right, it doesn't contain the smoke, but it buys time.

Um that if we want to make recommendations.

Hey, if you're gonna charge your e-bike battery, maybe that's something we could suggest to people.

But like everything else, there's cheap stuff on websites, and there's the better stuff.

Hopefully, you usually get what you pay for.

So all right, thank you.

So moving into our community outreach campaign around this.

Our tagline right now is Mesa, mind your motors, so good times keep on rolling.

Right now, over the last couple of years, being mindful has really become more popular.

Be mindful of how you treat other people, be mindful of your eating, and so we're we're wanting to tag on to that mindful aspect and and tie that into our public outreach campaign for this.

So we'll use other supporting taglines, which could be something like share the space, enjoy the place, um, and with our campaign goals being to increase safety, that's number one throughout our community.

We want to create safer parks, safer community, reduce these property damage and vandalism incidents that we're seeing across the city, increase community awareness of the laws surrounding e-bike and e-scooter usage, encourage peer accountability and reporting, and continue to position Mesa as a proactive city, prioritizing safety and accessibility.

So, with that, our our campaign pillars are to be mindful of the law, safety, and community property.

And we have different audiences that we're targeting throughout this campaign, really targeting parents of children who are riding e-bikes as well as our adult park visitors and property owners.

So this is going to take a community to get involved and to help us spread the word on this.

And we're approaching this really from three different angles of trying to build community awareness as well as talk about the compliance and the enforcement piece surrounding these updates if they're approved, and that course correction.

And the course correction is really where we'll be involving the media at large to have them help us spread the word on what we want to see people doing instead and kind of correcting some of that behavior.

And so continuing with that, be mindful.

That e-bikes and e-scooters are only allowed on the sidewalks.

You need to wear a helmet if you're under 18.

You should only be riding five miles per hour within the park.

And so we'll be utilizing all of the marketing at our disposal, whether that's putting information in our internal newsletter, the the city newsletter, partnering with HOAs to get this information in their newsletters, creating different flyers and postcards, social media posts, updating our website and having a whole web page dedicated to uh the rules and regulations surrounding e-bikes and e-scooter usage and parks and possibly even pursuing billboards as well.

Yeah.

With the with the increase of e-bikes and e-motorcycles and some of the damage that we've seen.

So our goal with the police department as well as the the city is after the message has been delivered for 30, 60 days, we will then target certain locations that are data-driven by accidents, number of complaints that we get, and we will combine with our patrol resources, our specialty units, our traffic unit, and we will go target these areas after they've had an opportunity to understand the new law and be educated.

Um also be pushing the message out through all of our SROs that are in all our high schools and junior highs.

That's the majority of the kids that are riding these are in junior high and high schools.

We want to make sure that the message is clear before we show up on a Friday night and dedicate 30 or 40 officers to do an enforcement campaign in that area.

With that, we'll take any other questions that you all have.

All right.

Council members.

Vice Mayor, if I may, just back to council member Gofor's comment regarding the where this is located.

What you'll see on Monday night is uh the introduction of an ordinance that addresses both um Title VI, Chapter 10, which is the parks code, as well as Title 10, Chapter 1, which addresses the transportation code.

So they will mirror each other as the comments regarding electric bikes is located in both sections.

What about the miles per hour though?

The speed.

Speed is speed is look is addressed in both of those as well.

It's not the same, right?

Because you're you have bikes without motors going more than five miles an hour on canal pass.

So you're right.

So you've got those separate in a different I would assume.

Correct.

Okay.

Yes, yes.

Um, mayor concept member go forth.

The the the traffic code already has the 15 mile per hour speed limit, just in general for the shared use passing canals pass that was already there, and then we're just adding in that um and in addition, it's a five mile per hour speed limit if you're in a park.

If you're in a park.

On but and is that for any bike if you're in a park?

I mean, or is are we just saying motorized e-bikes?

Councilmember go forth, it would apply to e-bikes.

Only e-bikes.

So if you're the point being safe operations more than anything, so that people understand the general because most people are walking two to three miles an hour, that a bike shouldn't be zooming in and out of people, whether it's motorized or not.

And just for clarification, the 15 miles an hour would still apply on the canal banks.

On the on the shared use paths, right?

And so the um so again the five miles an hour only applies to e-bikes.

So if I'm on a pedal bike, I can go 15 if I want in the park.

Yes.

You could you get crazy.

I don't understand how that makes sense.

With the weight of the e-bikes, it's the stopping distance is greater.

A pedal bike doesn't have the same weight as a as an e-bike with the battery and the motor, so it's easier to stop if you're going 10, 15 miles an hour versus I'm not sure I necessarily disagree because it the yeah, the e-bikes are you know they're heavy, they're down.

I have one.

So I mean I I I know how much it weighs.

It's very heavy.

And we kind of do we want to encourage people to bike and use our own pedals, you know, even though I I mean if you're over 50, it's okay.

Under 50, you should just pedal.

That was a joke, by the way.

That is ageism and I reflected in it.

Any other questions?

I have a couple questions.

What is the original reason for even approaching this idea of allowing e-bikes and parks?

Like why why did this come to the table?

Yeah, uh, Vice Mayor, Councilmember Taylor.

So we're e-bike usage has been on the rise over the last couple of years, and one of our missions as a department is to continue to meet the ever-changing needs of our community.

And so, with that, we've seen this as usage is on the rise, but we want to be able to put more parameters around the usage and have clearer messaging on when and where e-bikes and e-scooters are allowed in order to meet the changing needs of our community and provide um uh a foundation for the police department to stand on as they're working on different enforcement and messaging.

But that's really where it came from is just wanting to meet the changing needs of our community.

Thank you.

And I'm I'm gonna push back not to be like you know, combative or anything, but what you say a need, is it a need or is it a want one and two?

Are we having issues with people ripping up our parks on e-bikes?

So we're like, hey, how do we enforce some way of mitigating that?

So we need to have essentially an accommodation for e-bikes in parks so that we can enforce rules around it instead of saying, hey, you're in trouble for you know, ripping up through the sand or going down a slide.

Oh, what are you gonna do to me?

There's no law around this.

Is that am I understanding that correctly?

Vice Mayor, Councilmember Taylor, we have had lots of complaints about people feeling unsafe in the parks.

That's because of the way people are riding e-bikes and scooters, and so the answer before this code change is it's just outright not allowed.

That didn't feel reasonable because the community very much is interested in being able to ride e-bikes and scooters in the park system.

And we don't want to disallow that.

We want to make sure people stay safe.

Okay, and stop hurting the equipment, the improvements that are in the park that cause thousands of dollars worth of damage.

Oh, yeah, that's what I was thinking, right?

So it's trying to say, and that's why we went through a process talking to the parks board, talking to the transportation advisory board of the answer, is not outright banning it.

And before we start a campaign saying be safer in the park system, let's make sure the code recognizes what people should be accepting, and that people are already in the parks with e-bikes, but here's a way to do it in a safe manner and a non-damaging manner.

So it was disallowed, but people were breaking that correct disallowance.

So we're saying, how do we find a solution for that?

Okay.

Um what's the recourse for those little mini-bikes?

Do you know what I'm talking about?

They're really loud.

Some people literally stick pedals on them now, so that it we have seen that looks like a bicycle.

Yes.

Um, and they are super fast.

I think my neighbor has one that's uh it goes 40 miles an hour.

So guess what he did?

He just put pedals on it.

So how are you?

If we happen to stop them and the pedals are not operable, you're just gonna test it out.

That would be deemed a motorcycle.

Yeah.

And in order to ride that legally on the road, requires title registration, MVD, you have to have a motorcycle endorsement and all the safety equipment that would go if you bought a Harley Davidson or a regular motorcycle, just because it's an e-motorcycle or a gas-powered smaller motor, smaller motor-driven cycle, those all fall under the same rules that that a motorcycle is required and they're not allowed to ride in the parks.

They good, because that's a serious safety concern.

They're not like a bicycle, but people make them look like a little tiny bicycle.

Okay.

Um, and then speeding, I mean, I I kind of am with her.

How are you gonna determine when someone's not going five miles an hour?

Like, are we gonna have like speed radar really?

How will you know this?

If if we get complaints of a certain park where the where the complaint is speed, we definitely could deploy resources and an officer with a LIDAR gun just out there educating bicyclists that are that are pedaling by just to let them know hey, this is what your speed is.

I'm not sure if our speed trailers go down to five miles an hour, so I don't know if that would be operatable.

So it might be really obvious if it's not five miles an hour.

If it doesn't flash five miles, then yes.

But but we would go out there and educate if we got a specific complaint about speed in a specific park.

Okay, and then um you're gonna have a lot of kids that are not gonna be 16 years old that are just gonna get they they don't care.

Like, you know, they're not interested in whether or not there's a rule around it.

And there's a lot of parks, and I'm just thinking about a lot of police officers being dispatched to manage this, that's cost, right?

There's a dollar amount associated with that.

Have we considered all of that?

I mean, I live in a very active neighborhood.

There's a lot of kids with e-bikes and e-scooters and minibikes, and I mean, they'll rip through the park in the center of our neighborhood, and they just their parents are like, oh, they're just having fun, you know.

So the age limit has actually been in place since 2019.

That's been already on the city code to ride anything with a with an electric motor, nobody under the age of 16.

And just to clarify, it is a secondary offense.

What does it can you say exactly?

Is that like a misdemeanor?

Not a misdemeanor, it's a civil offense, but we can't stop somebody just based on their age.

We have to find a reason to stop them for violating an additional traffic violation, not stopping at a stop zone, not following the bicycle laws, not strictly looking at them going, they look like they're 14, I'm gonna stop them.

We have to have a legitimate lawful reason to stop them, then the age limit would come into play during our investigation if we found out okay, they're only 14 or 15.

Or 10.

Or 10 or whatever the age is, then that law would apply as a secondary code that's that's on the and how do you cite a child?

Do you go to the parents?

Like, what does that look like?

Depending on the age, I know that that we have cited probably 12 and up.

It would probably be a case by case.

It would probably if it's an eight or nine or ten-year-old was riding, it'd probably be an educational.

We've got them in our with the parents, and then if the parents, the parents could also be held liable if they're allowing their children to ride motorcycles that that would be deemed a motorcycle if it's an e-motorcycle or what you were talking about, the minibikes.

If an adult is allowing that child to ride that, then the parent could be cited for allowing them to drive without a without a license.

That's a great idea.

Okay.

And then my very last question sidewalks.

Well, actually, I had two questions.

I'll ask you the easy question first.

If this doesn't work well, can we just go back and be like you guys can't have e-bikes and motors and motorized vehicles like scooters in parks?

If we find that this is just the enforcement's not working, they don't care about five miles an hour.

They're still going nuts in all of our city parks and vandalizing them, damaging them.

I mean, what does that look like going forward if this just isn't I want it to be successful?

Just before you answer with the city clerk note in the log that council member Heredia had to leave, but we still have a quorum.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Councilmember Taylor, the um I don't necessarily think not implementing this change is the right answer if it's not working.

It's more PR and it's more outreach and it's more signage in the parks and it's more convincing neighborhoods that they need to be active and making sure their park is safe.

Yeah.

Because it's not an enforcement issue as much as it is uh helping people understand that this is a harmful behavior and isn't okay.

Love it.

Okay.

And then lastly, sidewalks.

Are there gonna be split?

I'm thinking about when I walk on the park sidewalk.

Are we splitting the links?

Are we widening them?

I was thinking about a bunch of e-bikes and cyclists with pedestrians jog, I you know, I jog or walk.

How will that traffic process work?

Have you thought through that?

Councilmember Taylor, we are not intending to change the structure of the sidewalks.

Okay.

You can be on the grass next to a paved area, especially if you need to go around somebody.

That's not a disallowed thing.

It's ripping up the turf and taking out sprinkler heads, that's the problem.

Super.

Thank you for answering all of my questions.

One one quick clarification.

So if you have an e-bike and you've modified it to go over 28 miles an hour, even though it's classified as an e-bike, it it once it reaches 28 miles an hour, it'd be motor-driven cycle, which would require all the requirements.

Because there's videos and ways that people are modifying these e-bikes that the manufacturer says max speed is 28 miles an hour, but after modifications, if it goes faster than 28 miles an hour, it would fall in the motor-driven cycle, that then would require title registration, everything that a motorcycle would.

So at that point it be it falls under ARS in the traffic.

Yes.

Vice Mayor, if I may.

And that was a glitch that actually we we saw in the current draft of the ordinance that's in the legislature, just you know, and we'll change it on this afternoon.

But the class three right now, we'd added the phrase 28 miles or greater, but I think we're gonna delete the or greater because uh once it gets over 28, just as you explained.

And that's consistent with state statute.

And so we're gonna delete the or greater um and and we so you'll see that change, along with well, we're also gonna just reference the state statute um for some of the definitions that we tie back.

We need these definitions really just come back from the state statute, so we're gonna tie that back.

So you'll see that change here this afternoon in Legistar.

And Lieutenant, I'm glad you brought that up, because that uh one of the questions I had was how are we gonna be able to determine a class one, two, or three?

Um Eastmark has a group, Eastmark Safe Streets.

Melissa Leon is on the transportation advisory board, and she she runs that, she's done a fantastic job.

She had a uh e-bike um person come and talk about training and kids or what e-bikes are, and it was it was an enlightening.

One of the concerns I have is there's almost no way to visibly tell if it's a one or a two or a three.

And one thing that he did was he took an e-bike and he showed how the one with a throttle, so that's a two, and then he disconnected the throttle.

Now it's a one, and you put it back together, it's back to a two, and then the kids with the videos, as you mentioned, can get in and and hack the code and go over 28 miles an hour now.

It's now it's not even just a three, it's potentially a motorcycle.

And this is concerning because it makes creating an ordinance and enforcement extraordinarily difficult.

Right.

Um the other thing specific to this.

Actually, would you bring up slide four while I'm speaking?

Um I worry that five miles was it five miles an hour for the e-bike.

I'm not sure you can ride an e-bike at five miles an hour.

Is it what's the have we looked at the stability of riding a bike?

They you know every every kid that starts out riding a bike and they go too slow and they start to wobble and they fall off.

Uh and I'm my concern is that an e-bike with the added weight and all that that five miles an hour might be an unreasonable speed given the ability to ride it at that speed.

So I I would ask that we kind of take a look at the data if that's even possible.

And two, do we have actual specific data that shows braking distances between a regular bicycle, pedaled bike uh and an e-bike?

Uh this isn't the slide I was hoping for.

I think you can disengage.

So five miles would be sorry.

No, that you're you're right.

You're actually kind of right.

Maybe where I'm going with this.

Yeah.

I hate to give credit to Tempe for anything.

But I'm gonna get a call from their mayor now.

Uh the stipulation of the motor disengaged is interesting.

Uh, because if if you disengage the motor, then essentially it's just a pedal bike.

Yeah.

And maybe that's what we look at is to emulate some other city I won't mention again, uh, about you can ride your bike, but it has to be disengaged, at least in the parks.

I think the multi-use paths, you should be able to engage it.

Um, if I may, because we talked about this with the parks board, and the concern with only allowing class one, for example, with pedal assist and not class two, are the types of bikes that older folks have.

You mean the ones over 50?

The class two's a lot a lot of times are beach cruisers.

Those tend to be older riders, and so having just a throttle operation on a bike that has pedal function.

And so we're trying to be inclusive and recognizing the types of bikes that are used by different populations are in the parks.

How did that city that shall not be named get past that?

Or is this an issue that they're addressing?

Tempi.

Look at their demographics.

Well, fair.

Yeah, that's it's at the yeah, this was in recognition of Parks Board being concerned that we would not allow folks that have more mobility limitations use their bikes in the parks because of the types of bikes that tend to be class two.

All right.

Once again, I think I mean, if we if this is something we end up adopting, it's not static, we could also make some some changes to it.

Has this been through the transportation advisory board as well?

The idea of it was presented to Transportation Advisory Board or East in September.

I can speak to that, and Lieutenant Stokes uh gave a presentation in September uh to the transportation advisory board, specifically talking about e-bikes and what's legal and outreach in education and it and so they've been engaged and I know the park board has so and I and I think you know the section that's with transportation on the shared use paths.

We're not changing the speed limit, the speed limit's already there.

We're just including now that type one and type two can be on those facilities.

So are you saying there are some bikes that you cannot disengage the assist?

Councilmember, go forth a class two doesn't require pedals to have motor assistance.

Maybe I can have that because the the throttle can operate it without pedaling.

That's what I mean about, but you can I'm I'm saying I want you to pedal and not engage the motor.

Right.

And uh the parks board was specifically asking that we allow people who have those class two bikes operate in the parks because that's what I'm saying, right?

It's a mobility concern with certain groups that they're more likely to have those class twos because they have trouble pedaling and they can operate it with just a throttle.

Like a pedal assist, I'm tired, I just need to use the throttle.

My bike does both, but what I'm saying is we could just require as Tampe, we could just require them to pedal.

But their concern is for the folks that can't pet don't pedal at all.

Correct.

Interesting.

Yeah.

So it's kind of like a concern for discrimination against the older folks or people that just may have a disability that does not allow them to continue going as the contiguous time.

That is the concern.

Okay, that's interesting because I would have done the opposite.

I would have said you if you want to come into the park, you have to pedal like a normal bike.

Yeah, that lowers the risk.

Otherwise, you stay on the the path of the street, you know, if you're just gonna be essentially a motorcycle.

You know, you're not you're not really a bike if you're not pedaling, right?

I have a question that's actually really important.

Do we have a record of incidences that you guys have looked at where people have run into each other or run into people on e-bikes in parks?

Like have we actually had the paramedics called because somebody got into an accident while they were riding?

Council member, we can we could get into a records management system and do queries on call types, uh certainly uh dispatch location, you know, park addresses, but that would be more of an analytics.

Okay, don't have numbers.

Okay, I was just thinking of it from a safety perspective, you know.

If that's something that frequently is happening, then that would be a different viewpoint on all of this.

Just just to clarify also, when when a when an e-bike reaches 28 miles an hour and it's classified as a motor-driven cycle or a motorcycle, all those are covered under state law currently, not within the they might also be covered in the city code, but once it reaches a motorcycle, it's covered under all the existing laws in ARS over 28 miles an hour.

Yes.

Yeah, and I think that's gonna be a really important component of the education piece.

I I really feel that in some instances parents don't know what they're buying.

They want an e-bike, fine, and then they end up buying basically a motorcycle.

I I think I've seen one at a hardware store up the not too far from me.

And it's just well, it's it's gotta be an e-bike because it has a battery, it doesn't have an actual motor.

And that that just isn't the case.

And uh so I think a lot of people parents are gonna go, oh, I'm glad we had this conversation, and and especially uh since Christmas is coming up, or maybe it's past.

I don't know, it's been a long meeting.

Um trying to line it up.

Um I think for me, the only thing left is is a little bit of research uh before the weekend hits on the five mile an hour thing, whether that's even feasible to ride a bike at that speed.

And in the future, I might want to have more conversations about the the disconnect item.

Is there any other questions, comments, or concerns from council remaining at this point?

I just want to confirm one of the reasons that we're seeing this is because we already had people going into our parks on e-bikes, on e-scooters.

Whether it's allowed or not, they are using it for that sole purpose to go through.

Taylor, they are.

Thank you.

Okay.

Okay.

And we will uh we'll probably have a little bit more discussion of the council meeting on Monday because we were missing two council members, so they're the mayor included.

So they might have some questions as well.

So hearing no other uh issues, thank you so much.

We'll move on to item three, which is acknowledge your receipt of minutes of various boards and committees.

Do I have a motion?

Uh motion for and second as recorded.

All in favor say aye.

I mean no nays carries unanimously.

Current events or uh current events or conferences attended.

Anyone's out of towns.

Okay.

Yeah, we have to do that.

Do you have any nothing in addition to your move on to that?

Which would be.

Did we already talk about the library on that one?

Oh, yeah, we didn't.

No, actually, I was uh the next item is scheduling of meetings.

Uh Mark.

What do we have coming up?

Why don't you go ahead and talk about if you want?

I don't want to steal your glory.

No, I was gonna pass it off, but this Saturday we will have the grand opening of Gateway Library that starts at 10 a.m.

and runs to 2 p.m.

I do recommend if you're still watching to show up early.

Uh we do expect a lot of folks to show.

And uh parking is fairly limited, so just know that.

And uh if you can walk, that'd be great for those who are living in the uh living there.

We it will also be the first of the new um uh farmers markets that will be there, and I am told I believe 70 percent of the items there will be food or vegetable kind of thing.

So it's it's a this is gonna be great.

It's gonna be a farmers market.

Uh a lot of events going on, so I look forward to seeing everybody there.

Yeah, thank you, Vice Mayor.

We don't get to do this very often, so we're excited to do that.

Well, very often as in every 30 years.

So, first new uh branch library in 30 years, so it's an exciting.

So we have to be over 50 to remember.

Well, we won't go by the conversation on what bike you ride there.

Um again, uh, Vice Mayor Council, just a reminder uh special council meeting will begin on Monday, December 8th at 3:30.

Uh the regular study session and council meeting will begin at 5 15.

And then after that meeting on December 8th, council will go on winter breaks.

So as we head into the holiday season, we wish you all and your families a very happy holiday.

And a reminder that Mary Main Street's going on, so we invite everybody to come down and take part in the activities that are happening and uh from the ice skating to the uh shot to the tree and Santa visits and everything else.

So yeah, all this uh all the events are on downtown Mesa.com, or you can catch it on social.

Uh so many events, but Saturday there will be the Mesa Book Festival right by the tree.

Also, there's a jingle bars crawl with festive drinks.

Um, so just to kick off that those events.

Great.

Okay.

Excellent.

Sorry, I I do have one um as well.

This Saturday at Falconfield Airport from 8 a.m.

to 10 a.m.

is cockpit close-up, and there will be Fire Station 208's aircraft rescue and firefighting truck, and the as well as the commemorative Air Force Museum's F-16.

So that's kind of exciting.

Santa will be flying in to the museum that takes tickets, but that's exciting at 11 a.m.

Be there.

Excellent.

I just wanted to promote really quick a local Mesa D2 business that I went to go visit.

It's called Wire Masters.

Uh they make wiring harnesses for various um Department of Defense contracts and Boeing and the Apache Helicopters.

And I went and visited them yesterday and took a tour of the facility, got to see where the manufacturing happens.

They have decided to stay planted here in Mesa because of those peripheral contracts that they can take with those big manufacturers.

Their headquarters is in Tennessee.

So they're kind of covering the West Coast here in Arizona and the East Coast in Tennessee, but they also ship out of Mesa globally, like I mean, to Germany and to France and other other locations.

So that was really cool that I got to see kind of you know the inner workings of this incredible business that is have their goal.

I think they're gonna reach it within five years, is to be a $500 million a year or more business right here in D2.

So I was pretty excited about that.

Just wanted to share.

Excellent.

And then when they expand, they can come to D6.

Oh, okay.

We'll talk, we'll share.

Anything else for the better of the order?

Hearing none, this meeting is adjourned.

Thank you.