Able to join.

We're we'll finish up whatever agenda item we're on and then we're gonna move to we're gonna move item four up.

Okay.

Woo.

This is the March 10th, 2026 meeting of the Fire and Police Commission's testing and recruiting committee.

Present are Commissioners Evans, Raimi, World Patterson, and myself, Commissioner Spencer, Commissioner Horowitz is expected shortly.

Also present are FPC Executive Director Leon Todd and Deputy Director J Pusick.

Director, please proceed with the agenda.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

We will begin with item one public comment.

Uh we have no one uh with us today in person for public comment and no one virtually uh either.

Okay.

There being uh no comments, this concludes the public comment portion of the meeting.

Director, please proceed.

Uh the second item on the agenda is FPC two one two four three five resolution to approve the January thirteenth, two thousand twenty-six meeting minutes.

Is there a motion on this matter?

So move second.

Okay.

Uh any discussion.

I'll take a voice vote for this item.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

All right.

Aye.

Aye.

Uh that's all of us.

Motion carries.

Director, please proceed.

The third item on the agenda is FPC two one two four three seven communication from FPC staff relating to uh the twenty twenty-six recruiting and advertising plan for the police officer position.

And for this item, we have FPC recruiters Jocelyn Morales and Jordan Dickerson with us.

Good evening.

Good evening.

Yes, please.

And um I think Bridget, can you on the PowerPoint?

Um, so we're gonna be presenting in regards to our police officer recruitment, but we are also participating in our nine one-one, which is now emergency communication officer recruitment, as well as uh firefighter, fire cadet.

So those will not be mentioned, but they are ongoing as well.

Uh so for this focus, we're going to let me see if I can go to the slide.

I cannot.

I think it's library.

So this is uh just an overview of the events that we did in 2025.

We did 106 recruitment events that FPC was present in.

You can also see the map, the overview of event of places we have been.

This does not show the places that we have been in multiple times as long as we were there once.

It's noticed.

I'm sorry.

Real quick, you go and now sharing the screen.

So just in case you want us to see it.

Oh, yes, we would.

Sorry.

What do I say?

What did he say?

No, we can't we still can't see on this thing.

Oh we're working on it, Commissioner.

Okay, no, no worries.

Are you guys able to see enough, Commissioners?

Looks like it wants to come up, but it hasn't come up quite yet.

Well wait.

No, I just see uh where it says uh misuse VH.

And I don't see anything.

Okay.

Okay, so this will make a lot more sense now that you guys are able to see it.

Okay.

So this is the overview of the community and recruitment events that we did for 2025.

That is the map that I was referring to that outlines the places we have attended.

So this is comprised of college presentations, high school presentations as well.

That's for our police aid and fire cadet program, career fairs, resource fairs, national night outs, um, as well as prep sessions.

So prep sessions are things that we offer for the written exam for the interview and for fake camps for candidates who are currently in the process and might need a little bit more of assistance.

So that is for last year.

Here's just a couple of pictures of uh places we have attended and have been to.

So the city has been doing some career fairs at different libraries.

We have attended almost all of them, unless we had something else going on at that time.

We have also attended that all of the national night outs.

We attended Pride Pride uh Fest recently and a lot of other community resources.

Usually we do this in conjunction with fire and police departments, depending on which one makes more the most sense.

Yeah, I was just gonna say in with us like uh growing in the recruitment team.

Like sometimes if there's multiple different events, um, you know, either myself and Justin will like kind of split up sometimes and decide to go uh to multiple events in in the same day.

So that kind of helps us out to be able to go to a lot of different events in the year.

All right, and now we'll move forward to the um like 2026 recruitment and some of our efforts that we're doing now.

Of course, 2026 has just started, so we don't have um a ton of events that we've already gone to, but as of right now, we have 18 recruitment events that we've already did that we already have done, and that includes the college presentations, high school presentations, going to different visits, um, career fairs and resource fairs.

And of course, we actually have our uh you know, police officer prep sessions that we do for the written exam interview with fit camps, those are still ongoing.

Um we actually switched the way that we do our prep sessions this year.

Um so now instead of doing it like when it's closer to the testing timeline, like when they're doing their uh written exam or interview, we actually try to host one prep session and well, technically three prep sessions um a month.

So we'll do one written exam prep session, one interview prep prep session, and then we'll have a PRT prep session as well.

We try to do that on a recurring basis.

And that's just because with us having continuous recruitment, we want to be able to provide the people who apply, you know, in January the opportunity to you know do a prep session if they want to do the testing beforehand.

Um, one other thing important to know is that you can see our um flyer.

We did actually switch it up a little bit this year.

We've uh included different pictures, um, but you can see uh we tried to highlight the specialty units.

Um that is something that we actually want to make sure that we're pushing just to make uh sure that people understand how Milwaukee stands out, uh, with us being like a good mid-sized department and you know, the largest department in Wisconsin, um, that is something special that we offer.

So it's like, you know, why not highlight the fact that we have K9 units, that we have a tactical unit, that we have a Harbor Patrol and all these different things.

So that is one effort that we continuously try to um showcase when it comes to recruitment efforts.

And then as well, um, you will see that we have it translated in monk and then also Spanish.

Um that way, you know, depending on which event we go to, we can kind of like target that a specific demographic.

Um, one thing I do want to mention as well is with police aides.

Um, we are actually collaborating a lot with the uh school resource officers that are now in the high schools.

So anytime that we do police aid recruitment, we try to um build up a list to see hey, which officers are in which schools, and then we'll actually send them a list of the students who are at that school to do follow-up check-ins and make sure, like, hey, um, is everything okay?

And just kind of keep them engaged in the process and everything.

So this is just a little bit of what we did in 2025, the breakdowns, the bus advertisements, which of course included Milwaukee County Transit System, Wakasha Racing, Billboards.

We also uh did another campaign with Mayfrow Mall, which we did see some success, podcast indeed, which is another job board, movie advertisement, and our Facebook More Than an Officer campaign push.

I know Jordan uh can talk a little bit more on what that one was.

Yep.

So on Facebook, we just always like to um highlight and push out videos that we do.

Um we partnered up with uh I believe those CBS last year, who actually helped us make a small like testimonial video where we had two officers, Officer Chandler and Officer Raul Ornellas.

Um they were able to kind of share their testimony on what made them want to uh join the police department.

So as they you know helped us kind of create that video and create that um, I want to say it was about 30-second clip.

Uh, we was actually able to push that on Facebook, Instagram, and it got actually a lot of um, you know, feedback, a lot of engagement.

Uh so that's always a good way that we decide that you know we want to kind of do his Facebook.

So he did mention I was able to connect with him at a different job fair later on and he mentioned that a lot of the community was Hispanic community was coming up to him and like recognizing him from it.

So it was a very nice way of seeing that come together.

It's a good secondary benefit.

Yes.

And of course we have partnered in the past with GSTV which is the gas station uh the gas station TVs that you see when when we do um and we have had interviews on both Fox 6 and Telemundo the ones in Fox 6 were promoting community events that we were attending but as well as recruitment and then Telemundo was at that point we were having um firefighter applications open as well so we did that one and we also mentioned that we were uh hiring for police department as well and then we have a pretty strong partnership with METC we always drop off flyers we have also had paid to have on their kiosks um just the fact that we're uh hiring specifically for the Oak Creek campus because that is the one that specializes in fire and police and this is just a couple of pictures from those campaigns.

So this is the one with Fox 6.

This is the one that we have done uh do you know if this is racing or walk a show that is Walkershaw.

The Walker Show on and then these are the kiosks that I was referring to and this is the movie theater advertisement that that played this one we did uh subtitle it in even though it was in Spanish we did subtitle it in English so that it would play and then some of the billboards that we have done.

You want to mention the analytics yeah and then the analytics our YouTube channel um so we actually placed some of our ads on our YouTube channel as well.

So I just always like to kind of get a little bit of how the analytics are going on YouTube.

And we'll be able to kind of discuss that a little bit further when we show you how our 2026 recruitment is gonna look so we do at the very end we do try to compile information on how these candidates were able to hear from it so that we can know what direction we want to take our recruitment to for the very next year.

So this is the information that we were able to receive as you can see most individuals felt that they had a calling to do it and then they search for it on the city of Milwaukee website or as they like to just sometimes put online Facebook as well was a very big component so we are doubling down on that coming up word of mouth was also very high and that's usually they know somebody in the department or they might just have heard about it and decided to finally take the chance and indeed which is another job board.

Yep and so even though it says online uh we kind of just take that as you know almost like a digital format.

So we uh kind of considered that moving into 2026 you know that's kind of the format that we want to mainly focus on is that digital aspect social media aspect um but of course we see that word but my word of mouth is huge.

So that's one thing that we always want to continue to push um just to officers and people in general like hey if I always talk to people when we're at recruitment fairs or when we're at you know college presentations like even if you don't want to be a police officer that's completely fine.

I think one thing that me and Jocelyn have come to realize is that it's not just about the W isn't just about you know having somebody apply um but it's also about changing like somebody's narrative or perspective on like actually becoming a police officer.

So if we're able to share some positive information that they could say okay maybe this isn't for me but it's for uh for somebody else we always like to encourage people to go out there and you know talk about it.

So um that's one big thing about word of mouth and I think that calling aspect is a uh a nice one like I said that's just those are people who are like hey I just always felt like this is something I want to do um I feel like this is something that's you know that has always been like in my heart to do so um I think it's a pretty unique uh percentage of like 52 people are actually yeah I just felt like you know what this is a job that I want to do.

Um other than that um you see that recruitment events were a little bit lower.

Um so we'll kind of touch on like how we are going to navigate you know that realm of things soon.

So despite being in a lot of the most recruitment events that we happen we did not yield as many individuals as we would like to when it came to like how they heard about it which was recruitment events.

So we decided to for 2026 do a different outreach strategy and that's going to be via social media.

So most of our things we're still going to be out in the community still hitting all those critical points to make sure they see us out there and are able to connect with us but we're going to be doubling down on social media campaigns from moving forward.

Yep now I was going to say and with that being said like although we're not going to be maybe as as many recruitment events uh we're just going to be way more targeted.

So we're looking at you know recruitment fairs job fairs that are specific towards law enforcement um and those are the ones that we're gonna definitely be trying to attend um rather than like some of just the other like sporadic ones that we usually just go to we just want to be more uh detailed and targeted when it comes to those events but we still we will be going to a lot of different uh recruitment fairs and community events and retention will also be on the forefront because that is something that we have a lot of candidates and that we've been contacting either in safeguard or on text messages or they just reach out via email or phone.

And retention will also be on the forefront because that is something that we have a lot of candidates and that we've been contacting either in safeguard or on text messages, or they just reach out via email or phone.

So that's gonna be one of the things that we're focusing on retaining individuals in the process, and we do want to create more contact points for them to have with police officers.

Um, one of the ones that we recently were participating in was badge found.

So that's just places that we can go ahead and still keep them interested.

Uh but some of the things that we are doing that are coming up is we're gonna be advertising as the the world cup uh during the world cup in Telemundo is gonna be one of the ones that we are um going to be showing in Spanish, probably the one that we showed the one with Raul and March Madness, ESPN, and I'll maybe talk a little bit about that.

Yeah, so we're gonna uh we have partnerships.

Um, how it kind of works is we're gonna do a multifaceted uh digital marketing campaign.

Uh so we're gonna be hitting them from podcasts, and we're also going to be hitting them from like the streaming TV stations.

So ESPN is a part of one of those things.

It's not just ESPN, but it includes all live uh sports, um, but it also includes sports uh talk shows as well.

So we'll kind of be uh streaming our um commercials on over those platforms, and then as Joshua mentioned, the World Cup will be going live then, and then for March Madness, um, we did a nice partnership with CBS.

Um, so once March Madness was you know, kind of beginning right now, we're actually gonna be having about six to seven, I wanna say um advertisement ad slots going during March Madness, and they're gonna be more so targeted towards like the big 10 tournament, so which is more so um for Wisconsin.

So we're just being a little bit more targeted, and a lot of the um ads for the streaming services is gonna be geared towards military veterans.

Uh that's part of our demographic uh gym goers and people who are like kind of sports enthusiasts.

We want to just get a little bit more targeted uh when it comes to your ads with the streaming platform.

Yes, and seeing as one of our biggest avenues of how individuals heard about it was either online internet or job boards.

We are still making sure that we are put all of our positions open on Wildinet, indeed, handshake amongst other individual other places that we do find as well as podcasts, movie theaters.

We want to continue to do that because of the recent videos that we created in partnership with Safeguard.

So we want to make sure that we are pushing those as much as we can to show individuals the possibilities and the promotional opportunities that we offer.

Sometimes we have individuals who are interested in being a detective, but they don't know that you have to start as a police officer.

So that's something that we're making though.

Uh, as well as sponsor advertisement, that is something we will continue to do seeing as we yielded positive results from that.

And we actually have new recruitment cards.

So those are cards that we give to police officers that they can hand out in the community if they find somebody who might be a good fit for it, and it would lead them to the job posting and all of our contact information.

And then when it comes to social media, again, so we are very big and heavy on that social media aspect in present.

So you'll see Facebook, YouTube, and X, which is uh well, it was formerly known as Twitter, but now it's called X.

Um, right now we actually do have a Facebook kind of campaign going on.

So on the screen, you see those four different officers right there.

Deontay King, Lydia Rivera, uh Uligi, and then Jamie.

Those are four different officers who we um did get videos from from our partnership with Safeguard.

And right now we have uh Deontay King's, it's about like a 36 uh second clip video that we're advertising right now on Facebook and YouTube.

Um it's kind of leading them to that website where they can apply, learn a little bit more about what it is to be uh become an officer, and then we'll also use those videos for YouTube as well.

So we have a little bit longer formatted videos that we don't want to put on social media because we know that social media is like a limited people have a limited uh attention span.

So for our longer formatted videos, we're actually just going to be putting them on YouTube, and then we'll also be putting money um behind our YouTube videos as well.

You'll see some of the YouTube videos and how we have been able to get that kind of engagement.

Individuals see this police officers and they recognize them, and so therefore they're more likely to actually leave a comment and interact with our post.

So those are just some of the comments from the uh like Facebook and uh just you know, the community members who are who know actually Deion King person.

So it's always pretty cool and unique to see like some of the people actually commenting and engaging on you know how many people like oh, I actually know this person.

I believe right now this post specifically um has over 5,000 views on Facebook, and we just posted this uh last week.

Um and it has over like a hundred and I want to say 20 something clicks on the actual link that takes them to the website.

So good engagement.

And that is just their overview of everything.

Okay, great.

Thank you so much.

Um do any of the commissioners have any questions or comments regarding this item?

And can't see anyone right now.

Let's see.

Dana has your hand up.

Okay.

Sorry, the box is uh covering the screen in here.

Okay, well now we see you.

Uh Commissioner Roller Patterson.

Yes, I think that's fantastic.

As you were going through your opportunities, I was also thinking about in the schools.

What about at the basketball games, football games, even their announcements?

Maybe you all could have some airtime during announcements.

So they're um, you know, for your younger crew, you may be able to build some interest there as well.

But good job.

Welcome.

I'm taking notes as well.

Okay.

Okay, a commissioner Evans.

Yeah, I just want to say um thank you guys for the effort and the time because I know you guys are really strategic and how you're moving.

I just have uh first of all, I want to uh piggyball off of uh the uh commissioner War Patterson, like when we talk about sporting events and talking to the students about doing the announcements.

I was even thinking like I was a high school principal, like I could see that in morning announcements.

And so when I'm thinking, I'm asking, like, are you coordinating with college and career centers in high schools to show these videos and announcements?

We are not right now.

Uh that's not something that we thought of.

I will say, um, and this is just only one thing that we always like to consider when it comes to pushing like police aid or anything like that um at the schools, is that sometimes we realize that kids are kind of hesitant to actually go and like you know engage with an officer right there on the spot, and it's only because of their peers, right?

So we have to be you know strategic as well when we do that.

But no, that's definitely something that uh we can kind of look into a little bit.

So but it's not even with their peers, it's with the college and career center like uh teachers.

They have like centers in schools where you could like show the videos of these officers, like just have a uh thing with these uh college and career center directors in every school, every high school has them, at least they did when I was a principal.

But I think that was would have been something as a principal.

I would love for kids to have opportunity to just come hear those particular uh videos and testimonies because we're doing a lot of social media, uh, whether it's Facebook or whatever, but even just to have a session during school time, during lunch period, where they can go in the college career center and hear these testimonies.

Gotcha.

That's a great avenue, uh, commissioner.

And I will say that we have also dropped off flyers for police uh police aid and fire cadet, and we have also done posters and dropped them off at all MPS schools for their college and career centers, which did which were very positive because if we would go back to these uh high schools and then present and we would see our posters up.

So if they if we are able to collaborate and put a video on, I think that would be a great.

Yeah, I think that makes sense because we already go in there and we do those presentations in the career center.

So yeah, I think playing that video actually would make sense.

And usually in those career centers, um, when we connect them with some of the um counselors, they're only bringing those who are kind of interested in you know uh law enforcement.

So yeah, I think that that'll actually be perfect.

Yeah, yeah.

And I always think that when when young people know the economic impact, like you know, how much how much do we make?

And and and talk about uh health care and uh uh retirement, like they need to hear that conversation as well, I would say.

So that would I think really uh spark an interest.

But can you tell me more?

Because I really liked what you said about the SROs.

I'm I'm heavily uh uh interested in how that's working.

I hear a lot of different things, but how are SROs being used as far as uh recruiting police aides and things like that?

Because I'm hearing a lot of things uh from the media saying that you know SROs are overstepping their bounds, but there's a way that I think that we could share with our young people the impact that not only SROs are happening uh uh or uh impacting, but police officers in general.

When it comes to the SROs, we started a partnership.

This is the very first year that we have in which we let them know hey, these are the individuals who applied to uh police aid.

If you could just go ahead and check up on them, make sure that they don't have any questions, or if they do send them over to us.

We've been collaborating that way because a lot of the times we find that sometimes we when we reach out to counselors, they might not have the time or they might be overwhelmed with a lot of different schools.

So it's easier for the SROs to go ahead and just kind of uh pick them from class or as they're walking down the hallway to kind of check on them.

And it's been working very well.

So what we'll do is we'll let them know hey, this is the step we're in in the process right now.

This is what they have to do, this is why they haven't done, make sure they schedule, or they can reach out to out to ourselves or to Jordan Hendry with any questions that they might have.

Okay, okay.

Yeah, and it's one of the things too.

We uh actually go to when the SROs have their trainings.

Um sometimes they actually allow us to go in there and present to the SROs, SROs, just so you're a little bit more clear and understanding of you know what the process looks like and how to kind of talk to some of the students there and just be a constant contact point, right?

Because maybe not on the first time that they talk to that kid, they want to become a police aide, but you know, after building a relationship with them, that's kind of the big emphasis that we always push is like, hey, um, build a relationship with them.

And then maybe, you know, by you know, month three or four, you know, after you continue to talk to them, see how their day is going, um, then you're able to kind of like, you know, ask them, hey, is this a career that you're interested in?

And then because they have built that trust over time, uh, they'll be more inclined to kind of uh apply as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I like that.

Last thing, do we have percentages?

Um where where are we getting the biggest bang for our book?

You showed a um a graph with um and you guys are doing a lot.

So thank you.

But do you see, and I think that graph might have showed, but where are we getting our biggest bang for our book as far as recruitment marketing and trying to recruit?

Based on the on the graph, I would say it's uh job boards, so like indeed and then Facebook.

So that's where we decided to go the direction that we are, because it seems social media is our biggest thing for our buck.

Yeah, you guys have been very strategic.

Great job.

Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner.

Quick question.

Any other one?

Yeah.

How are you all selecting the the individuals for the videos?

Um that's actually something that we rely on MPD to kind of do.

You know, we we trust and then we uh talk with them and they give us you know some people over.

There's a there's a young lady.

Um, she's a SRO.

Her name is Tiara Um Morale.

She would be awesome.

Just her journey.

She was a club kid, grew up in the city.

I think she would be an awesome person to potentially think about um telling her story that way.

So just wanted to share that.

Okay, before I go to um assistant chief uh Sarnow who just raised his hand.

Um Chair Horwitz, do you have anything?

Oh, you're muted.

Just that I I think you're doing a great job.

It certainly is a big expansion over what had been done in the past.

And uh getting direct marketing with uh officers telling their story is probably uh the most compelling part of it uh in my book.

So very well, very well done.

Thank you.

Carnell.

Uh yes, uh great job, guys.

You know, I'm uh privy to um a lot of the things that you're doing through um, you know, uh the recruitment uh team we have at MPD.

Uh pleased to let everybody know that we did add Raul to our recruitment unit um uh recently here in uh February.

So uh we're expecting um, you know, big things from him and the team working with the FPC Moon Ford.

Uh to your comment, Commissioner uh Ramey.

The uh we will I'll uh I wrote down the uh the name of the SRO.

You said um our contract with Safeguard Recruiting who created those videos for us ends in April.

Um I did speak at our last um higher level recruitment and retention meeting with uh executive director Todd about what the future is going to look like because I do like the videos that they created.

Um but I also think though that between those videos and the ones that um we did the those videos with the executive command staff that kind of outline for people in the process, hey, this is where you're at, stick with it, you're almost there.

There's videos that we're missing in the middle because as great as the videos that Safeguard created for us, that kind of gives you a snapshot of where you can be eventually in your career, but we're missing some things in between that.

So I discussed with the executive director doing a series of you know, taking five recruits in the academy and chronicling their journey through the academy and then getting some perspectives from uh entry-level officers when you get out of the academy in that first couple of years.

So we would kind of have then from kind of birth to the birth of your career through where you could potentially be, as you saw with those um officers, those great officers like Deontay King, Jamie Sramala, uh Garrett Ulicky, and so on, kind of where you can be if you um if you do things you know the right way and and commit to service with our department and our community.

So um overall just very happy with the direction this is going and very pleased uh to with the work the FPC and MPD is doing.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, I'll just echo to say I really like when we get these kind of updates because I do think like there's so much work that you all are doing to keep this ball moving.

And people might see you at events or one-off things, but they don't see you at a hundred of the events, right?

They see you at three.

So I I appreciate the opportunity to learn more about all the work you're doing and for you guys to get the chance to talk about how robust it is.

And I think it's bearing out year over year.

We're we're hitting that target, um, which is was not set for us to succeed at, right?

So like I think that's really really exceptional.

Thank you for your hard work.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Um as this is a communication file, no further action is necessary at this time.

Director, please proceed.

Uh the next item on the agenda is item number four, FPC 212347.

Communication relating to promotional preference points for community or volunteer service.

And this is an item that uh we first took up um at the last uh testing and recruiting committee at the request of Commissioner Ramey.

Uh there was a discussion at the last meeting and uh a request uh for a draft rule change, which is currently in the file.

Uh this was uh largely put together by um uh assistant chief parish from the the fire department and our staffing services manager Molly Keith or Steele.

Um and if you guys want to come up to the table, um I can I'll give uh just a brief overview.

So this would set um uh promotional preference points for sworn members uh as follows.

If you did um uh at least 120 hours of volunteer service, you would get five additional points, uh 180 hours, seven and a half points.

Uh there's uh just a note on that that I don't know that we're able to do half points, so that may have to switch to a uh an even number or a whole number.

Uh and then if you did 240 or more hours, uh 10 uh points would be added.

Uh and then we put some some limitations on it that it can't be uh for political activities or solely for religious purposes or with an organization that discriminates based on uh uh legally protected classification.

Um some of this language was borrowed from DER's um their volunteer program.

Um, you know, I I had noted in when one difference is that they also exclude uh stuff related to sports teams or events, but I thought that um I didn't want to necessarily put that in because there may be some uh events like with the police athletic league or something that could potentially qualify would be good opportunities.

Um, but just wanted to to point that out to you.

Uh the other thing I wanted to point out was uh this is limited to promotional uh uh preference points, not entry level.

So if it if I that that was my understanding, but if I misunderstood your intention, um uh you would need to make a tweak to add entry level to this as well.

Uh with that, I'll I'll I'll turn it over to uh uh Molly or Josh if you have anything to add on this.

I don't have anything to add, um, unless questions or anything to add.

Same um, yeah, no, this is uh something that's really excited as an opportunity, I think for uh for the candidates they've taken part in these exams.

I think it definitely uh represents a um a recognition of some of the um the amazing things that some of the existing employees are doing, you know, outside of their normal work hours, whether they're using their position um as a you know member of the city of Milwaukee's uh protective service team to elevate that, or there's just something that they do out of their you know, goodness of their heart, whether it's you know um, you know, packing market boxes or filling stuff at you know, uh second harvest or you know, coaching at our you know, doing a Gilbert Brahms football camp, which is something that um we actually do every year at a North Division High School.

You know, he basically eats the bill for everything, but he needs volunteers to do that, you know, do like the hands all with the little people.

So um a lot of interesting opportunities here and happy to take any questions or any discussions that may uh result from.

And Madam Chair, just uh just another point of information.

Um this was noticed for closed sessions.

Uh and the reason for that is if there's questions that are specific to existing eligible lists and how this might affect you know specific candidates and their scores, I would recommend going into closed sessions so that people can't um infer, you know what a particular candidate score was if we're talking about their score and how that might be adjusted by or affected by these hypothetical sense.

Okay.

But well, we can cross that bridge when we come to it if we need to.

Um I do want to say one thing before pivoting to the rest of the commissioners, is I have an additional suggestion, which is that we name these Colcroft points in honor of um Everett Cocoft, who was both um a Milky Fire and Police Commissioner and a Milwaukee firefighter.

Um he was part of the original uh conversation wait back in the day, right?

With uh uh assistant sheep parish, and um I think it might be a nice way to honor his legacy.

So with that, I'm gonna pass it over to I think who had their hand up first.

Commissioner Horwitz.

You yours says number one, I think.

Okay.

Uh thank you.

Thank you.

I think this is uh a great uh step uh in the right direction.

I guess my only um uh query is how did we know how how valuable is five or seven or ten points in the scheme of things?

You know, how what what is the total points um or or rating scale that this falls into that uh it it you know I I can't have a um a real assessment of how significant it is without that context.

I think I think it's a really good question, the significant question.

I do want to say one clarifying thing, and I think this was part of the discussion last meeting, which I I think maybe you um you were not here for, right?

Okay, so I just want to clarify this because I think it's really a really important distinction.

These would not be factored into the testing.

This is after the testing happens and the eligibility list exists, then these points would be taken in consideration for where they land on the eligibility list, right?

Something like that?

Yes, yep.

Okay.

So these would be more like instead of seniority points that are weighted into someone's overall testing score, these would be points that would be added in, added after a passing score, like residency points or um educational preference points.

They're more like preference points.

Yes, yeah, that might be a better way to think of it.

Okay.

So um officers, members could see themselves on a higher level on the list because of the preference points, too.

I mean, that is that going to be clear to people.

We can make, I mean, we can make it clear to them on the announcement bulletin, and we have um for promotional exams, we do orientations, and so that is something that we could make clear as well.

Um, with any change, there's going to be a education period pushback exactly.

Learning that's gonna um come along with it.

Um so there definitely will be some we're gonna need a runway uh leading up to it to make sure that everybody is aware of what the changes will be.

Yeah.

Um, and when will the changes be put into effect?

I think that's one of the open questions, right?

Yes, I think it's something the commission needs to think about and decide what it was.

Oh, yeah, we haven't we haven't amended the rule yet.

Yeah, okay.

Sorry.

On the one hand you can put it into I was just gonna say on the one hand, you could put it into effect immediately, and that would benefit the people that have already already done it just out of the goodness of their heart, but uh it may not get it wouldn't necessarily give a runway for people to knowingly try to do this.

Um so I think there's just uh policy decision that needs to be made.

Yeah.

Okay, thanks.

Thank you.

Um Commissioner Remy.

Yes, thank you.

And I have to leave in about five minutes, so I apologize, but I just wanted to say this first of all to Chief Parish, thank you for sitting down and helping this come to life.

Um, I just wanted to point out to the fellow commissioners and anybody else who may be listening.

You know, for me, the intent of this is you know, when we hear things like community policing and things like that, to me, this is really elevating people who already see community in their role, right?

Like they are really coming into the the leadership role of their current role and saying I want to be involved in my community.

And that was the spirit for me uh when we're kind of bringing this back to the phone.

And I just wanted to uplift that again and say I do appreciate you all, Brie.

Thank you so much for um you know sitting out to help kind of create this.

And I think I actually love the numbers.

I mean, some people see 240 hours, right?

And you know, but if you're volunteering 20 hours a month, you know, that means you're you're vested, right?

You're committed.

And if you're doing 10 hours a month, you're vested, you're committed.

I think that to me is the spirit of spirit of community.

Um, and in particular community police.

So I just want to say that um because I'm excited about this.

I love the idea of Coke Rock points.

Um and for the work he did.

So I think um, yeah, that I just wanted to share that before I have to leave.

I apologize.

We're doing one of our mentor at the game events tonight, and so I have to be you know 100% present for that.

So, but again, thank you all.

I truly appreciate it.

Thank you.

Um Commissioner World Patterson, Commissioner Evans, anything additional.

Okay.

Um I don't have anything additional.

I just want to say kudos.

I mean, it's just great to see how it has come, it's coming to fruition and that we're like there.

So kudos to you.

I think it's all positive.

Thank you so much.

Um and I like the Colcroft points.

That's cool.

We should um invite the family and announce it, you know, kind of make a big deal over that.

That would be really cool.

They don't live in town, but remotely.

Yeah.

Coal Croft's do live in town.

Oh, yeah.

I'm just telling you what Parish was mailing to me.

So family dynamics, yes, some of them are here, but in the spouse is no longer in town.

So we have two crow cross on the job currently, but they're like cousins-ish.

It's but the point being, I I really take uh Commissioner War Patterson's point, which is this really is an honor of his service.

And so, like letting his family know in advance, and if they want to attend, however, that way that they would would like to and can, then they would I think it'd be good to set it up that way.

So they have the option.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Uh Commissioner Evans.

No, nothing.

I just really appreciate the the process, the work and the vision.

And so I just want to say thank you, and um, let's keep going down the same process.

Okay, great.

I this sounds pretty positive.

I think you've got the commissioners feeling good about it.

I know um Lee mentioned the the half point won't work.

I might suggest we do like a three, six nine type situation, um, just to round out the numbers and not worry about half points, and that puts equal distance between them, like the hours.

Um did you want to say something?

You seem like Parishy wanted to say something.

Oh, no, I was just making sure that Commissioner Horizons had our question answered.

Was that sufficient, or would you prefer to use a closed session option and oh yeah, discuss specific sessions?

Kind of part of your question kind of wasn't sure what your intent was.

Let me ask it this way.

Do you think you can describe the relative value of three to nine points without a closed session?

Yeah, I think you can uh I mean, I think the uh the idea of it being added after the test scores, so you have an initial ranking from the examination process, and then looking at that ranking, you add in preference points.

So you do know where somebody started and where they ended up because of the points.

Um, I just think it's important for uh members to know that this really has a positive impact for them, you know, that they'll be promoted sooner as a result.

Yes, and it will not um like replace seniority points or anything like that.

That's not what we're suggesting.

So they would still get whatever seniority points they'd be entitled to as part of their weighted score, and then these would just be additional points.

Additional points.

Is this something that you have to have a meet and confer about that I don't think so?

I think that the the under 6250, the rules at setting the uh standards for promotion falls in the FPC's uh management order.

Okay, very good.

Thank you.

Uh Assistant Chief Sarnell.

Yes, uh executive director, this is a question for you.

I know you and I had talked about this previously um for the police sergeant's exam, which you know, thank you for sharing to me the updated timeline.

But would you do you see this being in effect or being in play then if this is voted on for that?

Um, only because had the post then gone out originally um with the original timeline, this wouldn't have been in effect.

So uh for context on that, that's a good question.

But uh just for brief background, um, the current uh sergeant eligible list was approved uh two years ago and will exp almost two years ago will expire mid-May of this year.

That's that's two years since it the eligible list was adopted.

We are planning to do a new sergeant's test this year, but just because of all the different police testing that's ongoing, we're not gonna be able to start the process until May or June of this year with the idea of getting an eligible list uh in December.

Uh so there'll either be a approximately a six month gap or the the current list would need to be extended for those few months.

Uh so to uh uh the assistant chief's point, uh, if the commission is inclined to approve this and does so relatively soon, say in April, uh, it's possible it could be included uh for the sergeant promotional exam, but I guess that's a question.

Uh the commission should decide as to what the effective date would be.

And I guess my uh my my question um to put a question back to you, assistant chief, is um well, is that something you would be requesting that it would be effective for the sergeant's exam or not?

Um, I would be requesting not to have it included, and that's only because we just got through the detective and lieutenant process, those postings went in on October concluded in December, and then those lists were approved by the commission in January.

Um I would recommend this be, you know, dated after the application for the sergeant uh exam goes out that way, then for the next testing process is two years down the road, everything would be level set for everybody.

Um, I'm gonna uh Commissioner World Patterson has your hand up, so we'll go to her.

You can finish that thought.

This is an add on.

Oh, something okay.

So I think when we met last, someone brought up, and it might have been Commissioner Raimi, and apologies if I'm putting words in your mouth, Christian Ray, but I think uh you might have mentioned like what about it starting at a forward date like September 1st or something like that, I think is the date you had offered up.

Um, which I think would get us past the period that AC Sarnell's worried about, right?

Yes.

That was yeah, the time frame might be so yeah, I'm I'll be comfortable with something like that.

That also provides a runway for people to learn more about it and be feel comfortable how it works before it goes into effect, which addresses I think um Commissioner Horowitz's concern.

Um how do how does FPC staff feel about September 1st 2026?

Looking at our calendar.

Okay.

Molly's looking at our calendar.

Because we have um the sergeant promotional process, but we're also gonna have the same time frame is the fire lieutenant and fire captain promotional process also happening this fall.

Oh, okay.

So I wouldn't want, I would just want to whatever exception they make it fair.

So, how about this?

I think if this has been going very positively, people seem in support of it.

So I think that means it goes from this committee back to the whole thing for a vote, the full committee.

It's well, it's set as a communication file right now, but um so it didn't start as a resolution file and deferred here, but nothing prevents one commissioner or the chair from putting the item on the agenda for the next full FPC.

Okay, I think that would make sense, and I would suggest that uh yeah, as a resolution.

So I think it would make sense for the when we do that to the full commission that the FPC make a recommendation, take into consideration all those exams when you think the start date should be.

Okay.

Yeah, I'm gonna jump off.

I have to leave.

Um, I'll apologize again.

But thank you all.

Appreciate it.

Good work.

Bye.

Thank you.

Good night.

Good evening.

Okay, over to you, Commissioner World Patterson.

I was just wondering if this information could be something that could be added in the recruitment as well, you know, for uh a bit of excitement that if you're you know, inclined to volunteer, you know, as you move along in your career, you know, you can get more points.

It help you move up the ladders.

That's something that you know, just the inter-office so that one hand knows what the other is doing as we're recruiting.

I think that will just add a little more excitement as well.

Certainly dovetails nicely with the more than an officer theme that we were seeing in the slideshow.

Yeah.

Is that seem still there or are they gone?

They're here.

They're listening.

Um, but that's one of the uh benefits of both the departments is that there's regular opportunities for promotion that are based on competitive merit-based examinations.

It's not like, hey, who's more politically active within the department or the favorite?

Uh, you take a test, you get your score, and if you do the best, then and part of the uh examination uh is community service.

So it's uh I think that is uh a good could be a good selling point.

Yep.

Okay, thank you.

And then I think did anyone else have anything before we move on?

Okay.

All right.

Thanks, everybody.

Thanks for your guys' hard work on this.

Absolutely.

Uh director, please proceed.

I'm sorry, can I ask one question for uh the prior item?

Just uh in terms of the how you would describe the relative scale or the impact that three to nine points would have.

Um is it you know, I assume it's not such that you're going from the bottom to the top, but it's having some impact, but not it's not a game changer, but it's something is that I mean, how would you characterize it?

Um it can it for with nine points for exams that go to the out to five decimal points sometimes, nine points can have a significant impact.

Okay.

And it's usually like a like a hundred-point scale, though, right?

So you're you know, some people put score in you know, the 70s to 90s.

Is that you're getting into the thing that's just general?

Yeah, but that's confusing.

So you gotta be careful framing it that way because it sounds like you're weighting it into the overall score of the test.

No, no, yeah, it's it wouldn't be it would be additive, but um with okay.

But it's not even additive in relation to the test, is my understanding at all.

Like the test is a standalone thing, it gets you on the thing, and then you get preference points that take wherever the test put you.

Yeah, and then shifts.

I think we I just want to make sure we're disciplined about how we talk about that because I think it can get really that's one of the places where the education around this is gonna get sticky, I think for members.

Yeah, but for a brief example, say you were number 20 and scored 80, and you got nine points, and now your score is 89.

That could potentially put you in the top 10.

That makes sense.

Yeah, well, that's that's the whole point of the points is to move you up the ladder.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And and for 240 hours of volunteer service in the city of Milwaukee, like fair play.

Yeah, yeah, that's that's real, that's real work um for sure.

Okay, great.

Lee, are you uh are you ready to move on?

Yes.

Okay, great.

Yeah, no problem.

Let's proceed.

Thank you guys.

You're welcome.

All right.

The next item on the agenda is item number five, FPC 212348 communication relating to promotional preference points for police leadership courses and or field training officer service.

And this is also an item that uh we had discussed at the last meeting.

Um I think that uh where it ended was that that people wanted or that the commissioners wanted uh an opportunity to just think about uh uh this item a little bit more before and then come back and have a follow-up discussion about it uh about how or where to go from here.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

Um let's see.

Does MPD have anything they want to say on this item?

Yeah, um, given the uh previous agenda item, I don't know how deep you want to go or how we want to go with giving um you know uh points related to these promotional exams, because in looking at um the uh kind of scale of uh five all the way through 10, and given what um you know how that can affect you know where you're on in the list, I really don't know even with um and and this idea was born from our recruiting and retention um committee, the one that executive director is on along with myself and several others.

I don't know how deep you want to go um as far as giving all these points because if you want to score, you know, if you want to improve your positioning on the lists, you can do that now through volunteer service.

Now, what I had shared with the executive director in I want to be clear, I support this.

I think this is a great idea.

I was just concerned with there's a distinction between the firefighter schedule and the police officer schedule, meaning that, you know, um, whereas in the fire department you may work 24 on or 48 hours, whatever that looks like, and then you get an extended period of time off, and your schedule may allow you more opportunities for volunteer service.

I don't know if you necessarily get that with the police department with a 52427232, not to mention officers um and their commitment to testifying in court and all those other things.

And we talk about work life balance with your family.

Where does that really leave you with an opportunity for volunteer service?

If it's important enough to you, you will make time for it.

And a 501c3 for MPD could be uh participation in the Mocky Police Athletic League, right?

Because that is a 501c3.

Um, so I really don't know, again, going back to um what I said originally, how deep you want to go with allowing scores and positioning to be adjusted past what's already been forward.

Um, if I was to recommend anything, it would be um if you are if you are in good standing as a field training officer and have two years on, um, that would be an opportunity because you're talking about a select group of individuals who have been identified by their supervisors or who have shown the initiative to take recruits right out of the academy and then build on that foundation and bridge the gap between what they're taught in the academy and what they're doing on the street.

That's a very important responsibility.

We know um outside of um, you know, compensation and wages, why people leave their jobs is um I'm leaving my job because I have a bad boss or a bad supervisor, and that first informal leader you're gonna get out of the academy is gonna be that field training officer has a tremendous impact on your career.

I was a field training officer.

That was the first thing I can really attach.

The most important thing I ever did in my career, the first thing I ever did was that.

I later became a field training sergeant and found firsthand how important that role is and the opportunity to one identify um those individuals who are going to be informal leaders, as well as individuals who maybe were already in the program and shouldn't be in the program and need to be removed.

So if there was any kind of adjustment or wiggle room with what we're talking about here and allowing points, it would be through the FTO program.

Okay, thank you.

Uh Commissioner Horowitz, I see that your hand's up.

Of course, I why do I do that repeatedly?

Um, as to the FTO program, uh, it's so that you know they are selected by a supervisor to be the uh the training officer, is that right?

Yeah, so you have to apply, you have to be in um good standing, you have to meet a certain level of criteria in order to be selected for uh to be an FTO.

And then I mean, even this week, I have to teach uh they're doing their whole week of uh FTO training this week.

I have to teach uh ethics integrity and the importance of uh character on uh Friday, um, which is their last class that they get.

So they do get a week of training.

Uh and then you, you know, you go back to your work location and we have um FTOs.

I don't know how many total FTOs we have total, but I know we have about 25 in this class, um, this new class that's going on right now.

Okay.

Well, um the distinction that I see is uh on the volunteer uh community service points, that's totally within the control of the individual member.

But if you tag it to something that is already kind of a promotion, you're um you may run into officers being a little resentful.

I tried to be an FTO, they didn't give it to me.

I was just disqualified, and now I don't have those points, and that person does.

I I tend to think that employment points like this uh have to be something that can be uniformly uh applied and uniformly available.

Um so yeah, if you want military points, you can join the military, right?

But um that's just my thought on that.

Okay, thank you, Commissioner.

Uh Commissioner World Patterson or Commissioner Evans, do you have anything on this one?

Okay.

Well, well, I'm sorry.

Oh no, go ahead.

I can I couldn't get to my mute button before you no problem.

But I I would just say um, and I hear you, uh, Commissioner Horris.

Um I was thinking if a person, you know, has the military and and can do that.

I don't think they uh I think they should be able to be rewarded with additional points because I think that shows additional fortitude and and want to for these positions.

Well, I yeah, yeah, I agree with that.

The the point though is that they've made the they've made a choice to join the military that's a personal, you know, so it's it's on their own initiative.

Yeah.

And yeah, you can volunteer to, or you can apply to be an FTO, but you may not get it.

And that's not based on your own initiative.

It's based on somebody else's um subjective view of how good you're gonna be.

Yeah, I hear you, yeah.

Yeah.

You do um uh Commissioner Horowitz, you do as an FTO, and this is through collective bargaining, you get an extra um you get extra money for doing that, and that's collectively bargained.

I want to say it's like that it's a buck 25 extra an hour is what you get.

Now, a couple of years ago, the unions argued, um, and that's if you're a certified FTO, meaning you've gone through the training and and um um, you know, you're approved to be an FTO.

Uh a few years ago, um, the unions or the the union argued that because if you're not with a um an FTO, uh, which is a one of your field training days, you're put with another officer.

Um, with the union argued, well, if that other officer is responsible for that recruit for that day, they should get the wage also.

Um, so you have officers who fill in occasionally um for the FTO, but aren't doing the work that an FTO does as far as the documentation and all that, but they're still getting the wage.

So one of the reasons why we kind of like this idea was to incentivize the program a little bit more outside of what they get um through collective bargaining and all that, because it is an important responsibility.

We kind of always looked at it as kind of that position in between officer and supervisor, you're almost kind of like a corporal.

Um, so this was just uh, you know, an idea that we wanted to push forward and it's never really been pushed forward, it's been talked about, but it's not really been pushed forward until now.

And that's why it's I was I was glad to have the opportunity to kind of bring this to uh the committee um for these reasons.

And just to offer uh another perspective, if I could, Madam Chair, um, you know, if we're talking about having a different batch of of preference points in addition to the volunteer preference points, the commission might want to consider if there should be a global tap or limit.

Um just so that like there is with the entry level points.

Exactly.

There's like 10 possible points or 10 max is when you max out.

Something like that, yes, exactly.

And then um, you know, I know we had previously discussed the possibility of points for um uh leadership courses.

Um that would have to be uh right sized, uh so to speak, with uh and so it's proportional to you know 120 hours for for free preference points and you're doing 40 hours of leadership courses.

Um maybe it's only a one point or something like that.

Or if it's um yeah, so I just wanted to put those two things out there and to uh to Commissioner Horowitz's point.

Um it may be prudent to get a little bit more information if this is something you're gonna seriously consider uh just to ensure that at a minimum the process is reasonably accessible to most officers, even if some officers may not ultimately get it, that they at least have a reasonable chance that it's not limited to well, only you know five out of uh 50 officers that apply are actually gonna get it.

Um just uh food for thought.

I think that's helpful.

I think so.

Um a couple of things.

I would imagine that somebody's FTO experience already impacts how they do in a promotional exam.

Because of what they've learned, because of what they know, because they've taken on supervisory experience.

Is that is that right?

I think it has an I think it has it can have a tremendous impact on your career, either good or bad.

Um, but I also kind of I've looked at the program um through a different lens, and it's kind of like looking at you know your own kids, you create this environment in the foundation and provide them with the best path to succeed, but then they get off on their own, right?

And they're you know, you you you you kind of created um uh an officer that um you know um displays all the things we want to see in an officer, but then they get out on their own, and um you hope that they they've taken what you've taught them and um in and go out in the world and do well with it.

But um to answer your to your question, um, they do have a tremendous impact on their career if it's done the right way.

Okay, so I'm asking specifically about the exam though, like their ability to score well on the exam, or their you know, like when I was I would assume that in the police department, these the facts that someone's an FTO would impact how they do on an exam for, for example, a sergeant.

It sounds like that one maybe is less cut and dry than I was thinking.

Uh yes, um, you know, again, they we kind of look at them as that kind of that um position in between officer and um supervisor.

So it's like a corporal position.

So it is an informal leadership position by design.

Uh and as such, they have um some extra training that that um others do not have.

Um, and yes, um there is the potential for them to do well.

Okay.

Uh so then I think um I agree with Chair Horowitz uh in terms of this isn't something that individuals are totally in control of or have the ability to manage.

Um there's other decision makers in the mix that would impact that.

So I think that's a really relevant important piece of the puzzle as to whether or not these should be preference points.

I'm open to the idea, but I don't think we know uh nearly enough about how the FTO program runs yet, like the total number of FTOs, um, how the vetting for FTOs work.

I also and I think this is to the point you were making earlier.

Um AC Star now is there's also I think a lot of variability.

Then this is also from like working uh out of D5 and like all this, like there's a lot of variability in how FTOs show up and how they treat people and how they train people.

And so I would want to know how that variability is being accounted for before an F being an FTO is automatic preference point.

So I think like um my take on my position on this would be like we move ahead with the volunteerism points as we discussed today, the cold craft points, that we can keep talking about this one uh after getting a lot more information, I think about the FTO program, and then we can discuss it again with that more information and see if we want to proceed or not.

How do you guys feel about that?

Commissioners, it sounds good.

Okay, yeah.

Okay, so then I think that's what we'll do.

Let's hold this to the call of the chair.

But the next and the next time we bring it up, we'll have more info about FTOs.

Does that sound good to you too?

Uh Sarno, you good?

Yes, I can uh get that information in short order and uh provide it to the executive director who can get it to you.

And um, even uh the next uh whenever this is brought up again, um, have um some uh academy staff join me on this meeting who are intimately involved with the selection training and all those things that um that um I have them in the positions they're for to answer any additional questions I can't answer.

So that sounds good, thank you.

And then does the fire department have anything they want to weigh in on really in relation to this type of promotional point?

Okay, you know, with your oodles of free time.

Nope, all that uh uh um to be honest, uh MFD actually has something similar to this already.

Okay, we actually offer time credit to individuals um that have taken on additional leadership responsibility.

So in the fire department, if you have your paramedic licensure, uh or if you have a uh degree and you're looking to sit for a leadership examination, the idea being that you've amassed more experience, so we're counting that experience and the time that it takes you to sit for the exam.

So you can take any exam a year early with one of those items.

So we've already for uh for all this.

Um I in fact use that.

So when I went from lieutenant to captain, I was able to take the captain's exam a year early because I still held my paramedic licensure.

So very similar to what uh AC Sarner was speaking about, probably be a similar equivalent.

I was performing leadership duties as a firefighter at that point.

Um I had the advanced problem solving skills.

Um we also as a paramedic, you have to train your junior paramedics.

Um you oversee your BLS providers irrespective of their age or seniority.

Um so you know, it's a medical licensure, but probably a similar-ish thing, not knowing a lot much about the FTOs, but similar things.

So that's how we account for it in MFD.

Yeah, thank you.

That's really interesting because you gotta be uh an officer for seven.

That may be like that.

Yeah, I actually like uh thank you, Chief Parrish.

I actually like the thought of that better than what we're talking about here.

So let me go back and speak with uh my academy staff as well as the human resource division on what that might look like for us.

And that way the next time this is brought up, I may actually have a whole different uh path for moving this forward.

So uh yeah, I I uh suggest you should also you guys can talk, uh not in this meeting too, and that would be really that would be great.

Um, because if that's a helpful thing, like um cool.

I I kind of my assumption was that it might not work for like labor negotiation reasons uh uh MPD, but if you think that won't be an issue, then that's that's really interesting.

So very similar to the paramedics do make a wage premium.

So that that wage premium is bargain, the selection process is necessarily not.

It's it's qualifications based, though.

I see.

Okay.

How interesting.

Okay, cool.

Happy to be a third partner.

Let me call Greg.

We'll do we'll do Josh.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, and uh all right, we'll keep it moving.

Um rightly all right.

Uh the next item on the agenda is item six, FPC 212350 communication from FPC staff relating to proposed amendments to FPC rules involving police aides.

Uh, this is another item that was um on the agenda at the last uh testing and recruiting meeting, although uh we did not have the red line version of the proposed rule change uh in the file, which we do now.

And so you can see on on page three, this would under subsection six Cry applicant for police aid uh would be required to be at least 17 years old and less than 20 years old rather than 21.

Uh and then the next page under appointments, section 2A, uh, what we're proposing is that uh the minimum length of time for the police aid program be shortened from two years to one.

Um and and this is really reflecting uh changing circumstances in the program, whereas it used to be the case that we would uh do recruitments for the police officer position and have thousands and thousands of applicants, people might have to wait a year or two or more, and such that the police aid program was really a good way to get your foot in the door, move to the top of the line by putting in two years when you were a little bit younger.

Uh, really what we're finding now is that if you apply for police officer and you're able to uh show up and pass all the exams and uh and testing and and and background vetting process, you will be hired uh, you know, within you know a year.

Uh so it's there's not the demand there once was, and so we have situations where there's police aides who reach age 21, and they could have started, they could have just filled out an application when they were 20 and a half or something like that and moved through the process and just become a police officer.

Uh and so this is a proposal to reflect that reality.

To um, you know, we it also has the benefit of getting more police officers on the streets, more boots on the ground, so to speak, uh and moving people through the process.

And uh just as background, uh you'll still have required the police aides to do one year of service as a police aide, uh, compl successfully complete the program.

And they will have at that point, otherwise met all the minimum requirements.

They'll be 21, they will have past background psych, the same written and oral tests and physical readiness tests.

Um that that's some of the uh the background for why we want to move forward with this.

Um so wanted to bring this first to the committee to see uh uh what what your feeling is on this before uh potentially proposing it to the full board.

Okay, great, thank you.

Um let's go I'll go to uh commissioner Horwitz.

I think you came off mute.

Yeah, right, right.

This time I I anticipated, so I took it up.

Um I think it's a good idea.

I think uh it makes sense.

You know, you you have a program that you know was set up at a certain period of time and now things are different than at the time they started.

So uh there's good reason to reduce it from two years to one year.

Um and uh to level up the uh the age a little bit like that.

So I I'm in favor of it.

Okay, thank you.

Uh Commissioner Evans.

Yeah, I want to say I'm in favor of it.

I just don't, I just want to make sure that we don't lose integrity with the year that's lost to uh uh moving this uh forward uh a year ahead.

level up the uh the age a little bit like that so i i'm in favor of it okay thank you uh commissioner evans yeah i want to say i'm in favor of it i just don't i just want to make sure that we don't lose integrity with the year that's lost to uh uh moving this uh forward uh a year ahead um but it makes sense because from what i hear uh as far as the age um what did you say uh director 20 years of age and a half and then if they uh were in the program they if they didn't apply they had to wait till they were 21 something like that yeah so for example if if a police aide um you know was 20 years 20 and a half years old they could even if they just started the police aid program or had started it relatively soon uh they could apply to be a police officer and they if they passed all the testing they would go into a class when where they could at least when they were at least 21 um and so this would requ this would kind of acknowledge that it would acknowledge the fact that they have put in at least a year as a police aide they are 21 they meet the minimum requirements and uh it's a good way to keep young people in the process because you still have to to get to a minimum age of 21 even if you start at you know 18 or 19 but if you're you know say if you start when you're 19 uh and then uh uh soon you become 20 and 21 and and uh you don't have uh quite two years uh uh or you know you have a year and a few months uh you can potentially go into uh the recruit class but with that in mind you're still gonna have they're gonna have passed all the same testing requirements yeah and meet the same minimum qualifications that any other recruit would have and then they'll still have to go through a six month academy uh so I don't think that this will have a material effect on on the quality of of candidates yeah then I'm definitely uh uh in approval of that thank you makes sense okay thank you uh Commissioner World Patterson Yes um I'm I'm for it but in the spirit of additional points do they re will they receive anything for having been an aide do they get any points or anything like that for being an an aide so even uh more than points they go to the top of the list um so like let's let let's say there were a hundred candidates that were eligible for uh you know a class and there's only 65 spots the police aides would be at the top of the list fantastic okay it's a one-win okay thank you um yeah I have no problem with this sounds good to me there was one other uh issue I wanted to take your temperature on uh for the August uh recruit class which will be class two of 2026 I think there are two police aides that will be if you do approve this two weeks shy of one year um and that's because the police aid class always starts in late August or this class would start in early August.

So I just wanted to take your temperature about how you would feel about a potential waiver for those two office or two police aides um otherwise they'll have to wait for the December class which is only four months but um it's two weeks.

So um I don't it's an unusual circumstance because of the timing of the class.

Yes and the fire department I believe used they used to run into this but um uh we specifically I think five years ago took out the two year rule and just said that they have to complete the fire cadet program because their cadet program starts in late August and then they always or sometimes they will have a fall class that starts in early August.

So uh yeah if they if it's a hard no I understand but uh if there's openness to it I I would then uh anticipate that the department would make a request uh to waive the rule for those two office or two police aides that are two weeks shy will be two weeks uh I see that Commissioner Horwitz is off mute yeah um I understand and I think that in fairness it might be appropriate for those two my my concern however is that you know we take a hard line on you being qualified for um promotional exams as of that date and that you you know we don't give any leeway for some good reason why an officer should be considered having the five years or the you know the qualification they're one they're they're three days short of it you know and then they have to wait for the next uh exam opportunity to to apply for a promotion I think that there's a distinction here but I just think we have to be very careful about ever waiving a requirement like that because someone else later takes it up and says well it's not a hard and fast rule look you did it differently here.

I think that there's uh a distinction here, but I just think we have to be very careful about ever waiving a requirement like that because someone else later takes it up and says, well, it's not a hard and fast rule.

Look, you did it differently here.

One thing I would I would say to that is uh the proposed rule change would reduce the maximum age from 21 to 20.

You'd have to be less than 20 years old to start the program with this rule change.

So uh logically, I would expect that this if you granted this exception exception this time that it would be the last one, because otherwise in the future police aides will be a maximum of 19 when they start and such that they wouldn't be 21 51 weeks later, if that makes sense.

Chief Parish.

So uh I I can explain why we changed our rule and maybe makes more sense.

Um here.

So for us, we actually have prescribed programming that happens on a schedule.

We actually operate on a school semester schedule, so they're always done with the prescribed programming ahead of that due date.

What we ran into is that when we're always full.

So from a position authority standpoint, we have to vacate those positions at pay period before to have room to hire the next group of cadets.

So when the rule was originally written, they basically carbon copy fire cadet into the existing police aid rule.

There wasn't a real thought about the curriculum, they just added the word where it appeared next to police aid.

So then, you know, where it comes to us like when you're done with the program prior to that, so we also need to clear those positions.

So it's uh it was a balancing act between um our actual position authority that DER gives us, and then we have curricula that's done with by then anyway.

So we're only doing like testing and cleanup of stuff at that point, and the cadets actually help set up for the next class and so on and so forth.

So that's how we came to not needing the two years.

We never needed a two years to begin with, honestly, and then we modify the language to act reflect the way that we run our program.

Okay, thank you for that clarification.

Appreciate it.

Commissioner War Patterson.

What would they do um for those four months?

They would just I believe we're made in the police aid program.

Is that correct?

Uh Assistant Chief Sarnell.

Yeah.

So if if you didn't allow them to go into the August class, they'd still be police aides and then just go into the class in December.

So it would just be delayed by a couple of months.

Um has this happened before?

Have they lost momentum, quit things like that?

Well, the police aid program itself isn't it isn't um funded to the level that it used to be, and we didn't get um, we haven't gotten the interest in the program until um probably within the last year and a half.

Um, so our funding this year reflects an increase in the number of police aides and a reduction in the level of community service officers because we just weren't getting enough interest in that.

We were getting a lot of interest with police aid, so let's fund the position that's seeing the most interest and provides um onboarding for these young people as well as a clear path forward to becoming a police officer.

Okay, thank you.

I'm I'm for if if there's a clear understanding that this is the last time, I'm for keeping the momentum and allowing them to go into the um training to be an officer.

Okay, thank you.

Commissioner Evans.

Yeah, I I agree.

I just don't want to set a president like we don't have a hard line, but uh keeping with the flow and working with people and trying to get good people, right?

Like that's the bottom line.

So I'm in agreement.

Molly came up, I think she has something.

I do want to make um a comment kind of piggybacking off the one thing that uh Chief Pearl said with an August class and with police, it's always being hired in August.

We may run up to the same issue that the fire cadets are running into if there are police aides who are of age with that time.

So just their birth dates are whenever they are.

Yeah.

But wouldn't they have more than a year of service then?

They should, yes.

Okay, but oh, I see.

So you're you're you're saying it's not an impossibility it'll happen again, but it's unlikely because of the rules for when you like age out and all that stuff.

Yeah.

Okay.

So then I think thank you.

I think that my position is the same as what the other commissioners have shared.

Like I I think in this instance with this rule change, let's let like, you know, I I'd be open to voting to waive that for the two people this year.

If it happens again, uh, I think we need to talk about uh making a rule adjustment.

Because I don't think it should be just like an all the time we vote to make an exception.

And it seems like that's the page we're all on.

Temperature taken.

All right.

All right.

Um, if there's a consensus on the path forward.

So this is gonna go to the full.

This will now go to the full commission.

Sounds like that for a resolution file.

Yes.

Okay, great.

Please proceed.

That concludes the agenda.

Hey yo.

Uh all right, that concludes the agenda.

Do I have a motion to adjourn?

So moved.

Second.

All right.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Okay, that's everybody.

Motion carries.

We stand adjourned.

Thanks, everybody.

Good meeting.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Sorry I was late.