Good morning.

I like to call this public works committee a meeting to order.

I am chairwoman Alderwoman Mulala A.

Cogs, we are joined to my right by Vice Chair Alderman Lamont West Morning to his right.

We are joined by Alderman by Balming.

Um to his right, we are joined by DPW infrastructure.

Um to my left, we are joined by um staff assistant Carmen Rowman to her left.

We are joined by Alderman Alex Brower.

To his left, we are joined by Alderman Larissa Taylor.

Item number one, file number two, five one eight seven nine resolution relating to approving the levying of assessments and construction of accessible public improvement projects at various locations and appropriating funds for these purposes.

Good morning.

Holly Rutenbeck with DPW.

I will be advising on the special assessment process process and project details.

For those projects approved this morning, a bill will be sent to each property owner sometime after completion of the work.

Within 45 days upon receipt of the bill, the full amount may be paid without interest.

If the bill is not paid within the 45-day grace period, a charge of 8.5% simple interest per year will be added.

If the assessment is at least 125 dollars, the assessment can be paid over a period of 10 years on the tax roll at 8.5% interest.

For those projects approved with late billing, a bill will not be sent before January 1st, 2028.

An official notice of public hearing was sent to all impacted property owners in relation to the projects that are on this public hearing.

The first item, second in the second aldermanic district.

Alley between West Vrowns Avenue, West Hope Avenue, North 62nd Street, North 63rd Street, concrete alley pavement reconstruction, replace some abutting side sidewalk and driveway approaches, grading, storm drainage facilities, and permeable pavement as necessary.

Sir anyone here to provide testimony on this item.

Out of 27 impacted properties, all responses were in favor, and the alderman supports the project.

Are there any objections to that motion?

Hearing none, so ordered.

In the sixth Aldermanic district, alley between West Hopkins Street, West Townsend Street, North 22nd Street, North 23rd Street, concrete alley pavement reconstruction, replace some abutting walk and driveway approaches, grading, storm drainage facilities, and permeable pavement as necessary.

Is anyone here to provide testimony on that item?

And I'll leave this one to you, Alderwoman.

Were there any cards?

There were.

Okay.

I support it.

Um Alderman Westmorland would move adoption.

Are there any objections to the motion?

Hearing none, so ordered.

In the 8th Aldermanic District, alley between West Greenfield Avenue, West Orchard Street, South 22nd Street, South 23rd Street, Concrete Alley Pavement Reconstruction, replace some abutting walk and driveway approaches, grading, storm drainage facilities, and permeable pavement as necessary.

And Patty's here from the Alder Woman's office.

We only received one postcard back, and it was opposed, but was from a landlord who doesn't live on the block.

And Joe Castor was concerned he might show up, so she asked me to come and say she's in full support.

Thank you.

Alderman Brouwer would move adoption.

Are there any objections to that motion?

Hearing none, so ordered I'm sure.

Alderman Brown.

Yeah, I don't have an objection.

I'll just to just some questions that we've talked about some of these things at this committee, but I just refresh my memory.

Um property owners, um, adjacent property owners pay 50% of the cost.

Is that is that correct?

That is correct, but they do not pay for any of the green infrastructure.

We do receive a grant from the Milwaukee Metropolitan's Ridge District, so that does not impact their assessment cost.

No, that's and that's really good to hear.

Um, I guess it um what I'm seeing on here permeable pavement as necessary, so are these projects intended to have that, or are we trying to do that for everything going forward?

Or what's what's the status that Holly?

Yes, so it is our intent that every alley repaving project would have the center four feet with permeable pavement.

However, there are certain alleys and situations where it's not a suitable fit.

But for each one where we have it listed in this official notice, it is proposed to have permeable pavement in the center four feet.

Okay, so there's is there's no particular reason that this says as necessary and not just says permeable pavement, period.

Well, so it would only be in the center four feet so that our garbage trucks can actually straddle the permeable pavers, and then also some of them are T-shaped or I shaped at those little intersections and around the actual uh catch basin to the is concrete, so not the entire thing is pay permeable pavement, just portions of it.

Though that makes sense to me, and we wouldn't want the permeable portion in the center to come to a T at the word where these alleys T intersect because then we could have vehicle traffic going over them, the potentially um I mean basically we get a weight issue with the with the permeable pavement, right?

Yes, and we do compact all of the you know materials and aggregate under the permeable pavement, so cars can still drive over the permeable pavement when they're driving in and out of their garages, it's not going to impact the functionality or the appearance or anything like that.

It's just that we don't want routine traffic and those like turning movements or really heavy trucks like our garbage trucks driving over them regularly.

So where there's a T intersection and alley, it would the permeable portion would not form a T itself, it would be set back from that intersection then too.

That is correct.

Okay, cool.

Thank you guys.

I just wanted to make sure I was clear in all that.

Thanks.

Actually, one more question, Madam Chair.

Um, the 50% cost, is that statutory?

Is that an ordinance or um do we know offhand where that originates from?

Yes, that is in the ordinance as a 50% recovery ratio.

Okay.

Is there anything in the statutes regarding that?

Could we charge a hundred?

Could we go less than 50?

It is entirely based off of the ordinance.

Okay, thank you.

I think the the statutes only limit our ability to profit from it, so we can't exceed what the cost is to us.

Okay.

Thank you.

I just wanted to get some clarity.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, madam, sure.

Go ahead.

And on that point, we we use the wheel tax to backfill what would normally be an accessible portion of street reconstruction, correct?

That is correct.

So on the roadway reconstructions between the curbs is non-accessible.

The adjacent property owners are only paying for a driveway and sidewalk.

And under our ordinance, they would be accessible, but for the wheel tax revenue.

Correct.

Um so we're on the 10th district.

Okay.

10th Aldermanic District, West Michigan Street between North 35th Street to North 37th Street extended, including North 36th Street between West Michigan Street to West Wisconsin Avenue.

Concrete pavement reconstruction and asphalt pavement resurfacing, replace curb and gutter and sidewalk and driveway approaches where necessary.

Sodding, six to ten feet with tree border area, green infrastructure, bioswales, and grading.

Is anyone here that would like to provide testimony on this item?

I don't remember.

Yeah, although this is not the my territory, I'm very familiar with this section of road, it's an extremely wide road from 35th to 37.

Are we narrowing the roadway surface?

Yes, we will be narrowing West Michigan between 35th and 36th, and also putting in biosewales.

Okay, very good.

Thank you.

Move approval.

The motion by Otterman Baum is adoption.

Are there any objections to that motion?

Hearing uh so order.

In the 15th Aldermanic district, the alley between West Fond du Lac Avenue, West Mindekee Street, West Wright Street, North 22nd Street, North 23rd Street, concrete alley pavement reconstruction, replace some abutting walk and driveway approaches, grading, storm drainage facilities, and permeable pavement as necessary.

Is anyone here to provide testimony on this item?

Out of 27 out of 29 properties, all responses were in support, and the alderman supports the project.

Hearing no objections, so order and rower would move approval of the file as amended.

Hearing no objections, so order.

Item number two.

File number two, five one eight eight zero resolution determining it necessary to make various non-accessible public improvements at various locations and appropriating files for these purposes with the city engineering costs estimated to be forty-seven thousand dollars for a total estimated cost of these projects meaning six hundred and fifty-one thousand dollars.

I have a proposed substitute on this agenda item.

Okay.

Is it um it's not printed?

Is it in the file?

It isn't the file.

Uh huh.

Is it A sub 2A?

Is it proposed?

Proposed substitute A?

Can you tell us a difference with the sub?

Yes, we had let's see here.

One additional project added in that we needed to set up a dish uh engineering for woman Taylor will move to have substitute A before us.

Hearing no objections, so order.

Are there any questions?

Um from committee.

Um is there anything more you want to tell us before we vote?

This is just for setting up engineering on future non-assessable projects for DPW.

Okay.

Autumn Bauman will uh move adoption of the file that substituted.

Are there any objections?

Hearing non soul ordered item number three, file number two five one eight eight one resolution approving construction of non-accessible public improvements at various locations and appropriating funds for these purposes with the city construction costs estimated to be um 41 million seven hundred eighty-eight thousand five hundred and seventy-four for a total estimated cost of these projects being fifty-five million four hundred and ninety-one thousand three hundred and sixteen.

We also have a substitute.

Correct.

Umderman West Wardland would move to have the substitute um before us.

Um are there any objections?

Hearing non soul order on the substitute.

Could you tell us what the difference is?

Yes, so we did have uh quite a few water water wonky waterworks projects on this.

So we had a few technical corrections from the original upload, and then we did have a few projects that were added in for setting up construction funding just so that we could get those contracts out for bid and get more competitive pricing this spring.

Any questions from committee?

Hearing none, Otterman Brower would move adoption of this of the file as substitute hearing no objections, so ordered item number four, file number two five zero nine eight seven nine eight six.

Um resolution approving a first amendment to the lease agreement with Tower Co 2013 LLC for a portion of the parcel located at 3929 South Sixth Street in the 13th Automatic District.

Good morning.

Uh Jordan Shuttle from the city attorney's office.

Uh this is uh this file's been heard by this committee before, but it was asked to be held by uh Alderman Spiker to for him to ask some questions of waterworks, but it will be those questions and answered.

Uh just for a refresher, this is an amendment to a land lease agreements with Tower Code 2013 LLC at 3929 South Six Streets, which is the Howard F water treatment plants.

Uh Tower Code manages the cell tower sites at uh at the plant, and this amendment would extend the lease out until 2060.

It wouldn't change rents, there's still a 5% rent increase attached to to the rents.

The current rent is 42,758 dollars and forty-eight cents for next year.

It'll be 44,896.41 cents.

You said the five percent increase is that annually?

Yes.

Any questions from committee?

All right.

Hearing none, order woman Taylor would move adoption.

Any objections to that motion?

Hearing none so ordered.

Item number five, file number two, five one eight eight two resolution extending the active streets for business program.

Good morning, madam chair alders, James Washington, public works coordination manager.

Uh so this file is um extending the active streets for business program.

Um again, the program typically runs March 15th through November 15th, and then there's a winter session that runs from November 14th to March 14th, and this is just renewing it for the 2026 season.

Are there any questions from committee?

Madam Chair.

This is the Parkland program.

This is actually the active streets program.

It's just uh something separate.

Correct.

Is that separate program that we're gonna transition order licensing?

Correct.

So the Parkland program is already ordinance, it's already in chapter 115.

Um we are revamping the ordinance to bring in parkletes and active streets for business to have it run similarly to the dining um sidewalk dining cafes.

Um that would be run out of the licensing division.

Very good.

Thank you.

Move approval.

The motion by Otterman Palm is adoption.

Are there any objections to that motion?

So order item number six.

Real quick really quick.

James, yes.

Since I have you in front of me.

Should the Bucks just lose the rest of the season out?

Or I mean we're we're 10 games behind the Hornets who hold the last play-in spot.

What do you think we should do?

Put out the white flag.

Get the draft pick.

Thank you.

In agreement.

That's the official DPW position.

Thank you.

The motion by the motion.

Um item number six.

File number two five one AA4 resolution relating to the application acceptance and funding a private property inflow and infiltration grant from MMSD for a project in an area bounded by North 53rd Street to North 60th Street and West Vienna Avenue to West Capitol Drive in the 7th Automatic District.

Yeah.

Good morning, Robert Slain, Environmental Engineering Section.

Yeah, this file is for construction funding for sanitary lateral replacements in the area described where we call Grassland Manor neighborhood.

Are there any questions from committee?

Hearing none.

Um Brower will move adoption.

Item number seven, file number two, five one seven seven seven substitute resolution authorize an amendment to the water service agreement with the village of Monominee Falls.

Good morning, Patrick Paulie, Water Works Superintendent.

Would it be helpful if we displayed the map showing the new water service area?

It would help maps.

It is in the file.

I do have it on the jump drive as well.

I think because it's not set up for the Zone Drive.

We we can all look on our file.

Okay.

Okay, so um Monomine Falls has been a whole wholesale customer of Waterworks since 1997.

Their original agreement was for 10 years.

A new agreement was signed in 2008.

In 2008, the original water service area from 1997 was reused.

So they've been a customer of ours for um nearly 30 years now.

They approached us early last year about uh expanding the water service area primarily to match the MMSD service area.

And so this is a I would call it an adjustment um what administrative there are approximately 450 properties being added to the water service area.

It won't result in a large volume of water.

Um all of the properties have been developed, they are well over 90 percent residential residences, some commercial businesses on the far north side, and so the map that you see has the MSD service area shown in shaded blue, and then the original water service area.

If I remember well, actually, I have a map in front of me, it is shown in the red solid line, the blue solid line is the new water service area, so you can see the the differences between it, the um black and white dashed line is the subcontinental divide.

So we had we've consulted um the public service commission and the DNR.

Um neither of them need any additional information from Milwaukee to approve expanding the water service area.

So Monomine Falls Village Board approved this on February 2nd.

Any questions?

Mr.

Chair, the area that's west of the continental debate.

Is that raise any implications with the Great Lakes Compact?

It does not because Menominee Falls is a straddling community similar to New Berlin and unlike Waukeshaw.

So that was one of the questions that was asked of the DNR.

Is there any additional information you need?

And since these areas were already approved to be within the MMMSD service area, it's okay for waterworks to provide water service to them.

How are those areas served now?

Some of them are already being served by Milwaukee Water.

Um the rest of them are on either private wells or subdivision wells.

I believe a number of them on the far north side are served by the village of Germantown.

Okay.

And does this increase our revenue?

Marginally, um about 40,000 in revenue, eight thousand dollars in costs for um energy and chemicals, so thirty a little over thirty thousand dollars annually.

Very good.

Thank you.

Otterman Brower.

It is no coincidence, or it is a coincidence that this roughly follows the subcontinental divide, then I mean, is that that uh could you explore elaborate more for anybody listening or my own notification?

Uh what's what's going on there with the memory?

I can see literally the area follows the subcontinental divide roughly.

Well, I think it is it's more than a coincidence.

I I believe gosh, I'm I think I'm a little out of my depth here, but I would say that this it's the intent that water returns to the basin on the correct side of the subcontinental divide.

So the subcontinental divide separates the um Mississippi River Basin from the Lake Michigan basin.

So I I believe that MSD intends that water on the Lake Michigan primarily returns to the Lake Michigan basin, which means I don't know that the MMSD service area is going to extend too far west.

I think everyone understands that it's best that the water in the basin remain in the basin.

Yeah.

So but due to the how the developments are conducted and where roads go and where facilities go, I think that's why you find that there's some areas that encroach outside.

I can say you can see on the far northwest corner, there is an area shaded there that is in the MMSD service area, but is not in this new water service area.

And that's something that Monomine Falls may return to Milwaukee to add that area and another smaller area to the south.

Thank you.

Any other questions from committee?

All right.

Um Taylor would move adoption.

Are there any objections to that motion?

Hearing none, so order.

Thank you.

Item number eight, file number two five one eight six one resolution directing the commissioner of public works to execute a document um titled state municipal financial agreement for a state-let highway project with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation for the installation of non-participating temporary street lighting on STH 181 County Line Road to MacWanro, and to set up funds for construction and an estimated total cost of $80,500 with a hundred percent city share.

Yeah, number eight.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Um let's start that over.

Number eight, file number two five one a six zero resolution authorizing a commission of public works to execute a first revision to a state municipal agreement for transportation alternatives program project with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation for the Hopkins Protected Bike Lane Project for a revision to the project limits.

Uh good morning, Mike Amsden, Transportation Planning Manager at DPW.

Uh, this is an administrative change to the SMA just revising the limits from 34th Street on the northwestern border to 31st Street.

Any questions from committee?

Hearing that Otterman Bauman will move adoption.

Hearing no objection, so ordered.

Thank you.

Item number nine.

File number two five one eight six one.

Resolution directing and commission on public works to execute a document title state municipal financial agreement for a state-let highway project with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation for the Installation of Nonparticipating Temporary Street Lighting Home STH 181, um county line well to Macquarie and the setup funds for construction at an estimated total cost of 80,500 with a hundred percent city share.

861 resolution directing and commission on public works executed document title state municipal financial agreement for a state lit highway project with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation for the Installation of Non participating temporary street lining home STH 181 um county line well to Macquarie and the setup funds for construction and an estimated total cost of 80,500 with a hundred percent city share is there someone here to speak on it's here but this is basically the city's portion just so we can keep street lighting on a state trunk highway so usually the state of Wisconsin does not participate in having street lighting there as part of their agreement so we just want to make sure lights are in for our residents as they do construction on their particular roadway okay um any questions from committee well you haven't gotten any pushback from MECLAN at all no I guess we're good any other questions uh hearing none Ottawa man Westmoreland will move adoption um objections to order item number 10 file number two five one eight seven five resolution relating to approval of an intergovernmental cooperation agreement between the city of Milwaukee and walking metropolitan sewage district for the purposes of establishing the times and conditions of the river skimmer operation from 2026 to 2035 and there's a substitute uh good morning yes Kurt Springer is from public works environmental engineering section we do have a proposed substitute so copies of both yeah yeah so this file is a uh really a continuation of previous uh agreement between the city and MSD to partially fund the river skimmer operations along the Milwaukee River from Walky KK and Monomy rivers and the harbor area the uh substitute that's before you uh was a result of some changes made between uh legal staff between the city and MSD related to indemnification language uh the substituted file should be does still contain contains it for um the provision that um each party is responsible for their own negligence uh but it just it removes the whole harmless clause I'm sure I don't remember how could you just uh could you go over what exactly this is sure so thank you uh so the river skimmer uh commonly known as uh learned skimmer uh is the uh boat that goes along the river's MSC owns and operates that boat uh essentially it picks up trash on the river so it has a internal mechanism conveyor belt that pulls trash out of the river um that gets then dumped into a dumpster that we dispose of as part of this agreement uh so they run that from essentially April to October five days a week um and then additionally uh during like say festival season they'll run out of weekends as well um generally speaking uh looking at past data they have pulled between 1100 and 1600 cubic yards of material out every year out of the river any other questions on committee on bomb I see our share of this cost is sixty one thousand two hundred dollars correct it doesn't sound like a lot would we not benefit by increasing our contribution so we increase the amount of cleanup that takes place I guess I could follow that thing running every day four hours a day easy yeah the district manages that with the OLED that amount I mean or that level of service that has been that's consistent with the past level of service that uh has been going on for the last several years.

Is anyone asked anybody if they thought the level of service was adequate I mean actual like constituents and a budding businesses and all and residents on the river.

Yeah I can't speak to what MSD or VLA have done in terms of outreach on the frequency of the operations it will it will operate approximately 110 days is that what the contract provides it's what it provides in the last several years it's been in the neighborhood of 120 137 days wouldn't hours be more appropriate measure of service levels rather than offer a day for an hour that's that much work.

Fair enough and I do not know the hours exactly MMSD employees uh VL has been staffing this yes and it's their sole sole job responsibility or these are multi tasking people again I don't know that detail of information I think we need to hold this file to get some further because I seems to me I mean let's spend a hundred thousand dollars and get two thirds more service this has been a source of significant complaint over the years.

Because this has been a source of significant complaint over the years.

I mean, there are some areas where there is frequent debris collection that people seem to just not notice unless complaints are actually called in.

I think well, there's uh I don't I forget how many older many districts are affected by the certainly mine, certainly the sixth, certainly the third.

Although although they don't go north of the whole dam, do they?

No, they go Humboldt on Milwaukee River, Ember Lane on Menominee, and Lincoln on K.

Well, see Ember Lane, just west of Ember Lane is where there's a big debris pocket.

So they they ignore that because it's west of Ember Lane and not east.

I don't know if they can get past the Ember Lane Bridge without operating the bridge.

Uh well, then operate the bridge.

Don't they is that bridge still movable?

It's a good question for the bridge people.

Yeah.

Is this time sensitive in any way?

They are looking to get started in April, so it is somewhat time sensitive.

I would imagine maybe on good faith they would consider starting.

We have have groups like the river keepers been looped into this process and asked what their opinion is on the adequacy of this skimming operation?

I've not heard anything from them that they have any you may have not heard, but I don't think they know any of this is going on.

No, I uh I agree.

I no, we have not done that kind of outreach or asked.

Um it's certainly not anything that's been brought to our attention in terms of um a lack of service.

And how about the the Riverwalk overlay district?

I think that's what it's called, or late district, or or it's actually a B actually it's actually a business improvement district, right?

Is anyone ask them what their views are or the third ward association?

Because I can guarantee you there's condos in the third ward, Hantons Landing, for example, where they probably have very strong opinions on the adequacy of river skimming.

Understood.

All right.

The motion about Autumn Bowman is to hope.

Are there any objections to that motion?

Uh uh Ottawa embrac.

So if we we will they will not resume, they will not start operations until this is signed.

I would have to discuss that with them and see what their comfort level is about we meet once a spot to ask that, yeah.

What is the next public course means?

Well, the next one right here.

Madam Chair.

Umre O Paul Assistant City Attorney Andrea Fowler, just to provide a little context for how this agreement sits sort of in in the scope of MMSD's other agreements.

They have hired a third-party operator to do that.

That third party operator is funded as part of one of their larger operating agreements, and there is also a separate agreement that is very similar to this one that is making its way um through approval at the port of Milwaukee.

So I might suggest that if you would like to have a discussion with MMSD about increasing the scope of the work, um, that you consider passing this file now and that we then um avail ourselves of the opportunity to amend the agreements if the scope could be increased.

But who's gonna take that initiative?

I believe that would be the department.

Sure.

Because I think we're missing an opportunity here.

I mean, sixty-one thousand dollars is nothing in the great scheme of the city budget.

I mean, that's that's jump change.

If we can get double the service for all of the 120,000, I would think that's a wise investment, no?

Sure.

We certainly like I said, we'll reach out to the groups that you mentioned and we can have a discussion from your office as well.

Okay.

Hold on one second.

Um, how long have we had this contract?

This is a renewal of a contract, or not a renewal, but uh revision to the contract that started in 21.

I believe these operations go back as far as 1998 when the city owned the boat.

Um but then back in I think the mid-90s, or I'd have to look back at my notes, but I believe at some point we transferred the boat to MSDs, so the operations have been going on for 20 some years.

We haven't done some of the evaluations or engagement that Autumn Empowerment is suggesting.

I have not initiated any of those engagements now.

How have we judged our desire to keep renewing it?

Like what are what are the measurements that you use if it wasn't engagement?

If it wasn't engagement, if it wasn't the stuff he's talking about, what was it?

So they do provide us uh data on the amount of debris that they remove.

Um it is a on top of just simply removing the debris from a water quality perspective, it is also a you know beautification item.

Um's point, the you know the dollar amount seems reasonable for the service that we're getting.

Uh but there are no hard metrics that I could point to.

All right.

Um you say with you withdrew, so um we have a common call on the 24th of March.

Um move um approval.

Um with the expectation that some effort will be made to uh do some of the stuff that Ottoman Baum has suggested, and that information getting from that will be shared with the council.

Um are there any objections to the motion?

Hearing none.

So ordered.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Item number 11.

Um file number 251854.

Resolution relating to expenditure of funds to be reimbursed by greater than anticipated revenue for the purchase of low emissions vehicles.

Is there anyone here to talk on this?

I was just trying to text to find out who this is.

All right, we'll hold this.

Um Taylor will move to how to the call of the chair.

Um, item number 12, uh final two five one seven zero one.

Resolution relating to the construction maintenance and funding of Stella's Playground, Milwaukee's first universally accessible and inclusive uh playground.

Um, this is sponsored by me.

Um there is a park um sort of um close to where if you were on North Avenue and you were trying to go to Humboldt East.

Um the circular area that you would go to on the other side of it is the park.

Um it kind of abuts uh Bowers District as well.

Um a couple was it like a year ago?

I was approached um by Department of Public Works and the group um who is pushing for a stellus program with a wonderful uh idea of how to reimagine um this park.

Um, and I think members know we already have you know the MK plays and we've already um as a city been committed to redeveloping some of our um local uh parks.

Uh but the angle and the desire to do Stella's playground um I thought was needed and extremely unique um for us to do and having such passionate people behind the project I thought can only make it um can make it better.

So it's a whole team of folks who've been um working diligently to help make this park a reality.

We're joined by some of them today.

I think we'll start though with uh um the commissioner, I guess, just explaining and then we'll turn it over to the Stella Playground folks.

Well, thank you, Chairwoman, uh Joe Crusher, Commissioner of Public Works.

Um I think you've articulated pretty well.

This is a great opportunity in a partnership with um Stella's Playground to provide basically Milwaukee's with their first adaptive playground in the region.

So it it's fantastic on this group, and I'll let them explain more what this is all about and some of the history.

Um but uh part of MKE Parks that uh is under the Department of Public Works were participating in this and helping with this, but they've been doing a fantastic job fundraising for this.

So a lot of the dollars that come out of this is the efforts that they've done and and the connections they've made.

Um so I'm just happy to be here to support um the playground itself, and and thank you guys for actually hearing it today.

So I'll kind of hand it over to the group and explain a little more what this actually is.

Thank you, Commissioner, and thank you, Chairwoman.

Really appreciate your support.

I'm Reese Schneider.

Um I'm Stella's mom, and this is Stella's dad, Bob Schneider, and this is our dear friend Elizabeth Mueller, who uh we wouldn't be here without her support and help with us.

Um our daughter was diagnosed with a cancerous brain tumor in July of 2023.

After her resection surgery, she was left unable to walk, talk, swallow, smile, do all the things that she used to be able to do, and she has slowly re regained a lot of her uh abilities, but it's still a long road ahead, and we don't have any guarantees of what's going to happen with her.

So um in the summer of 2024, we went to Reservoir Park.

Uh we live in River West, and Ras4 Park is a place we used to go to all the time.

Uh Stella was in, had progressed to being able to be in a walker at the time.

And we were there with our son Jake and some cousins, and they ran off to the playground that's there now.

And Stella uh, who again was in her walker, I kneeled down next to her and I said, Stella, I'll uh get you out of your walker and take you over to the playground.

And she looked at me and she said, Mom, playgrounds aren't for me.

And as a parent, you know, we felt through this whole journey.

I can't cure cancer.

I can't make her walk again.

I can't make her smile again.

I can do, I can advocate as best I can, but I can't fix this.

But when she said playgrounds aren't for her, that's when I felt like this is something I can do.

Um and mind you, I have no Ben Gerald knows this, I have no background in building playgrounds, but it seemed easier than curing cancer.

And so, with the help of some very, very dear friends and the support of our family here.

Uh, and again, thank you to you, Alder Woman Cogs, for opening your arms and your heart to this um and seeing how this is going to be such a great thing, not just for our daughter Stella and our son Jake, but for the entire community, and so I'm really honored to be able to work on this project that will be the city of Milwaukee's first universally accessible and inclusive playground.

So thank you.

Any questions from Madam Chair?

Uh congratulations on on your initiative here.

To the commissioner, uh, what what's the city's share of this cost?

And and why why are we putting any burden on these folks to raise money at all?

Great question.

Yeah, so so this project is in excess of over two million dollars tied to this, which obviously the MKE Park budget does not allow.

So I think what we're doing, I can't remember the numbers, it's a it's a few hundred thousand dollars to basically help with the update of the bathroom facilities that are there and other things that we're normally doing.

So we're putting in a portion we would normally do in a regular MKE park, and all the extra efforts tied to this, and it really comes down to a money constraint from what we have.

So, what they've done is like we do in our own MKE parks, we reach out to funders to help fund uh redevelopment of parks.

They're doing the same thing, but just at a much larger scale.

Who is there a particular design parameter or design standards that are incorporated into these facilities?

I I can let them explain, but yes.

So, what what sort of the facilities adapt to you know people that uh don't have these sort of you know play sets, etc.

Um, but there's actually a whole group that has um accessible type of plate equipment, and that's kind of what's gonna be put here.

So then people like Stella um can go and say this park is for me.

So, yes, there are standards and I don't know if you guys have any clarification.

I am not a park builder either, so uh playground builder, but but there are standards that nationally that are set, and I think there's groups that they have vetted through to provide these kind of um playground equipment.

Yes.

Yes.

Um so to answer the the first question, we've with the city's support, we've now raised over 1.1 million dollars.

So we feel really good um headed towards our goal of two million dollars.

We um we are working with two different playground companies, uh Compan, which is an international playground company, they're one of the largest, or if not the largest in the world, uh, and also working with a local group, GRG Playscapes.

Um they do a lot of nature-based play, and so bringing those two groups together um to help really inform uh what this looks like because you know we don't we didn't know what that what this exactly looks like.

And then we're also working with RA Smith and Kayler Slater, our landscape architects who are providing a lot of really good input.

They're also working with the folks at the ability center.

They're doing the big uh Moss Universal Park, so they're bringing their expertise from that experience to um to this playground.

We also went through a pretty extensive community engagement effort here.

So as you know, we know this experience through our eyes and our family's experience and through Stella's experience, but I don't I don't know what it's like for other families.

So we met with folks from Islands of Brilliance and Autism Group, um, Wisconsin Adaptive Sports Alliance, Independence First, Penn Fi, Vision Forward, Abel, um, and a few other groups to get some feedback from them because the end product will be inclusive, but we also want this entire process to be inclusive.

Hopefully that answers your questions.

Sounds like an awful lot of work by private parties to do what something obviously in the public interest.

I'm just we're lucky to have you.

I was amazing we don't have more of this already in existence.

Well, this type of playground is first, and we had all those organizations I'm familiar with.

Why why why why it took you guys to take initiative and not them who are professionals it does?

It's an honor to work.

Okay.

Um I do want to say I I got the honor of meeting Stella as well.

She's a remarkable young lady.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um any other questions from committee?

Yeah, ma'am chair.

Army Brown.

Yeah, thank you so much.

Um this this is great.

I'm I'm really glad to see this here.

Um just looking at I did I noticed the resolution does cite our comprehensive um is the document here, yeah, comprehensive uh outdoor recreation plan.

And just pulling that up.

I I just want to you know just confirm what I suspect here, um, which is that um that this is it is I mean it does say in the resolution this is in line with it, but I just want to I just want to make sure when you know we're talking about this.

I know we you know we have I think I'm well actually let me ask this.

How many employees do we have in our MK Parks division?

So there's a total of five.

Well, not yet.

Parks, and he's got uh one person underneath him.

Okay.

So given given that, and given that the county, you know, uh operates most of the parks that are within the city's boundaries, um, we will have, and I know there's gonna be a some sort of there must gotta be some sort of management of this, like the construction and all this stuff, and like it would be we are we fitting in with the capacity and with other pieces that we have in this comprehensive plan to um keep on with what we've decided to do.

I I I did wasn't on the council and we adopted this, but this is a multi-year plan that I just want to I just want to confirm that this is not gonna you know disrupt this and it'll be in line with everything else that we're planning on doing through 2027.

Yeah, so I mean we will help project manage this project.

Obviously, this is you know an MKE park location, so we're gonna be involved since we've been involved for uh a year already two years now already.

So yes, um and it fully aligns with you know our plan to redo all 52 parks that the city has, you know.

So we do one to two a year, and this is just a much larger scale, but yeah, we'll be involved since or we already have been as the process moves forward.

And we can provide updates as you know the development goes through, what the actual final you know park looks like, um, etc.

We can continue to update public works committee as that moves forward.

Yeah, no, I I would really I really appreciate it.

I'm actually on the I'm on the park sites list here on this document and trying to find our trying to find this specific park here, not the Snow's crossing.

What is this?

What is the title of that of that park?

Reservoir Reservoir.

Okay, cool.

Yep, okay.

And it actually looks like it was last rehabbed.

Uh Reservoir Park was last rehabbed in 06.

So that actually puts it on the older side, it looks like there's some of them, some of them are you know, 84th and Florist is 20, you know, last rehab is 1997.

Um during Killing um was um in 1997.

So there's a few of them that are over 20 years as far as rehab, but this um actually I'm seeing one that's one that's 44 um on Car Ferry Drive.

Um I do not even know how to say that park name.

That must be where the old Polish fishing village was.

And that was looks like it was rehabbed in 1978 here.

So I just want I just want to note that.

Like I I mean, obviously, like there's some parks have more utility than others, and we don't just just because of the age doesn't mean we but I just want to make sure that that this because it looks like it does kind of align up with maybe needing some updates anyway.

So I'm glad you mentioned that.

Like all the parks that we have, not all of them have playground equipment, not all of them have extensive things, so maintenance of some of these areas are different than others.

Yeah, I'm literally looking at that one that I think is right by um yeah, that's the last update was in the 70s.

I mean, I think that literally is just a patch of grass.

Correct.

That's down there, yeah.

Uh cause Zubi Park.

Yeah, say it again.

Casubes, yes, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, so just I just want I just want to note that I'm I'm glad to hear that that this lines up with this.

I I intend to support this file.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um are there any other questions from committee?

Um hearing none.

Uh Ottoman Bauman would move adoption.

Are there any objections to their motion?

Hearing none, so ordered.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Um item 13, uh number 251 808, an ordinance relating to the amendment of the official map of the city of Milwaukee.

Good morning.

This is Dessa Lampakella from Central Drafting and Records.

This is uh updates to the City of Milwaukee Sofi Show map and uh 2025 of mostly it has to do with alley vacations.

Any questions from committee?

So you said it mostly has to do with alley vacation, so it's taking doing what with the um uh pretty much alley is being vacated going from uh public right away into private.

So alleys are being closed off.

Okay.

So just for some clarity to official map.

So official map is the city's official map for right away exists.

So when there's any adjustment to the right-of-way, like we give up like an alley vacation or there's a dedication of public right-of-way, the map has to be adjusted.

So once this group actually adjusts it, it goes to the front of council to make sure that it's just due process.

So anytime there's an adjustment of any sort of right-of-way, this file comes up about once a year, sometimes twice a year.

Yeah.

Um, but it's just the adjustment in the official map that the city it shows what the city maintains from right-of-way perspective.

All right.

Any questions from committee?

Hearing that Ottoman Westmoreland will move passage.

All right, no objection.

So order item number 14.

All right.

Uh yeah, thank you.

Um it's no secret uh what happened with leaf collection.

And not here to point blame.

Um I've never met Mother Nature, but that's the one that uh really uh put us in the position that we're in.

I think snow fell on December 1st, and I think is that right?

It was November 29th.

November 29th, and the deadline rake out deadline was December 1st, right?

Uh it was extended from the typical November 15th to November 30th, so right up to the snowstorm.

So uh with that said, um DPW, I think it was last week has announced that there's going to be a spring collection and that breakout period uh was to start on March 1st and go through March 15th.

Um I've asked people, don't break out past the 15th.

Of course, not that you know not everybody's gonna follow that or even hear that.

Um but I just want to have a discussion surrounding um how we plan to approach um the spring leaf collection and then um heading into next season should you know this happen again.

Um what will be changed, you know what what changes have been made to operation.

So um I'll just start with the list of question that I have.

Um you know, obviously people are starting to rake out and there's a potential for snow on Sunday.

Hopefully they're wrong.

But my question uh is what's the plan because you know when I saw that time frame, my initial thought was you know why not have it the first or the fifteenth of April instead of May or March.

Obviously, uh snow can fall any time around here, um so that's hard to predict, but I think the chances um drop significantly in April.

So I've already gotten the answer, but for everybody watching, if you can uh start by answering why we decided March 1st through 15th instead of April.

So uh good morning, uh Joe Crusher Commissioner.

But works uh great question, Alderman.

So what we're trying to do in spring is something that we've never done before.

So because we had the early snowfall related to leaf, so part of Mother Nature, which is I've never met her as well.

Um leaves are dropping later in the season, what we've seen typically that's part of just climate change.

And snow had dropped earlier.

I mean, typical years we've had snow not come until about Christmas, which gives this operation about another month to push in, you know, we continually extend those deadlines to sometimes December 15th, sometimes December 21st.

So putting a new operation in and trying to squeezing this in before clean and green, which starts in April, so we'll kind of explain what will happen there, is to try to do something as quick as possible to get rid of the other 30% of the lease roughly that we did not collect in fall.

And so just just to let folks know we have been collecting leaves since December, all the way through January.

When we have an opportunity to, so when there's large piles that come in and get requested from, we'll send a crew out there to try to pick up those larger piles.

But there's been a lot of residual that has been pushed up onto people's terrace areas, and that's what folks are seeing.

Um so we decided to do a quick get it out in the street.

It gives us a month.

So why we're saying uh March 15th is to get it out in the roadway.

So that's what we see.

We've split out of a month.

So when we say the 15th, we want it out by the 15th.

But again, like we do in fall, if you see a large pile there where we haven't collected and you add it to it, that's not a big deal.

Um, as part of this, after the 15th of April, what we've done is we've actually pushed cleaning green a week later than we normally have, just so we can give people an opportunity to also uh and this is gonna be the new thing is you can have bag service basically at the same time.

So we're doing that right now, but also during cleaning green, say someone wants to bag their leaves, put it at the end when we're coming around on their scheduled week, which is posted on our website, they'll be able to get rid of their leaves as well, besides additionally taking it to the drop-off center if they want to.

I I know a council has put together a file to purchase bags that we DPW are going to participate in trying to distribute across the the city to help folks that you know maybe can't afford to get paper bags, etc.

Um, so I think that's coming soon.

I think April 15th is when those bags are gonna be available for the public.

Um but tied into the question of you know, there's no specific answer here, and I I've got a few questions from um council members says, Why don't we pick up leaves all year round?

And the answers is I don't have enough equipment nor enough people to do that.

Um, operations is a seasonally based um department, and so when we go into winter, we focus on snow and ice because it's a public health and safety issue.

In fall, we worry about leaves.

What we're doing here is we're trying to clean up the debris that was left over from the winter season.

Then we transition into you know picking up illegal dumping, street sweeping, all these other operations that are there.

So I would love to pick up leaves 12 months out of the year, although it's not possible.

You know, as we start moving into summer, we get into tall grass and and things like that.

It's just we do not have the manpower nor the budget to pick up leaves all year round.

In a perfect world, we would love leaves to drop in October.

We have the whole month of November to pick up leaves, and snow comes and it's it's a perfect world, but that's not the case anymore.

I mean, as environmental changes have occurred, it's just where we're at.

So we're trying to sandwich a new spring leaf cleanup because I mean no one really complains about it when the snow is there because they don't see them.

And as snow has melted and we've had a couple of nice warm days, this is where we I mean, constituents are calling your office, and same with us.

We're trying to find alternatives to get trying to make this happen.

In fall that this coming up year, if it happens again, there's no particular answer because if trees if leaves are still on the trees, we can't we can't access them.

Um we're hoping that you know gives us enough time and they drop earlier, but it's not a perfect science by any means.

Um so, like I said, the the the quick spring cleanup of leaves to try to get rid of what's there from the larger piles, and then additionally trying this, we're calling a pilot for bagged leaves.

Um is something we're trying spring just to get rid of as much as we can before the cleaning green.

Um, I could have Rick explain um a little more if you want more clarification on some of the operations, but it really tends to come down to manpower and mother nature at the same time.

Um so now the complaints that I'm starting to get is the leaf pile has been picked up, now there's mud all over the street.

Are we uh circling back?

Or is that how do you address that?

Are are you now uh automatically coming back, or are you waiting for a request to come back in relation to the mud?

Does it is depend on how much mud it is?

How do you how do you address that?

Sure, and uh Rick Myers, sanitation services manager.

Um so the the piece as a commissioner described kind of the sequence of events here.

Um also as we um right now we're getting our street sweeping, um our our mechanical brooms are getting prepped for the season.

We already have some out there, so we've started on um a few of the um you know on some of the boulevards and some of the um dirtiest areas, but as we once we get past the um this um we think it'll take about four months to cycle through the city to get uh for this final pass on the leaves.

Um we'll start sweeping during that time too, but once we get through that, um, besides cling and green, we shift to our what we call our heavy sweep period, where we have um where we staff our largest number of brooms in the season to get through every street uh once coming out of winter as quickly as we can.

Can it can those sweepers get up that mud up?

That's gonna be a challenge in some cases, um, because um it will be mixed performance in that.

Right.

Yeah, so I'd say if you have really large mud piles, okay, then the street sweeper go back and forth.

Um, obviously, when we get rain that comes in the spring, that helps rinse off you know salt and mud into the system, which which is just fine.

I I do want to make something very clear.

I mean, we've had a couple of times we've had some false winters already this spring.

Like Monday was a fantastic day, 72 degrees.

So everyone thinks that we're moving into spring season, get the street sweepers out, these type of things.

These machines really don't operate under 50 degrees, so we need consistent temperatures that way.

I mean, if we're gonna out there and it's 30 degrees, they use water to help clean, so they don't operate.

So I I do want to make that very clear because it's like when we do get those 70 degree days, like Rick had we'll put a couple of sweepers out there.

We just can't move the full operation out there because they're not prepared.

They're doing other things, uh really the sanitation collection or leaf collection.

So it's we're we're trying to balance both things, but yes, we're trying to get to them as fast as possible.

Otherwise, you know, once we go through when the when the city gets done with cleaning green as we go through April and May, we go into that summertime.

This is where I mean you can really see the difference.

I mean, not only is it the leaves and residual stuff, it's all the you know the granular stuff that sits on the side of in curb lanes.

Um it's all part of that spring cleanup that we do.

It's just this year is a little different because we're a little earlier.

I mean, we just talked about there's potential snow this weekend.

We are still in the winter equinox, even though we've had some 70 degree weather, but it's just it's part of the operation switching around.

Right.

Um and it's kind of tied to moving forward.

You know, one thing that I've thought um I remember first getting elected.

I'm like, wow, yeah, you know, we should always extend this out.

And I was thinking, why won't we permanently move it out?

But after what happened this past December, I uh are we opening ourselves up to trouble if we continuously push this date out?

Like I I start thinking like, should we not push it out?

And the leaves that fall are just on residents.

It's their responsibility after that breakout period.

I would love that, but that's not reality.

So when we extend, you know, normally, and this is it comes into when leaves drop.

So you know, years ago, this is why we put a November 15th, you know, because the majority of the leaves would fall, so you'd have a small amount.

It just seems as time has gone on, we would rather clean up as many leaves as we can if the the weather doesn't transition.

You know, if we have a whole month of December to do that, we will keep on extending.

Just like we did this last yeah, we we could have cut it off at November 15th and said, you know, tough.

Um that's not how we want to.

We want to actually provide as much service to to our citizens as possible before those folks transition into to snow and ice.

Once snow comes, that's a that's where the whole different animal comes.

So hypothetically, we didn't get snow until January.

We would continue to clean leaves until then.

But once snow happens, then it becomes into this is a public health and safety issue where it comes in snow and ice is priority one.

And so, you know, we're we're continually trying to just provide as much service as we can to folks.

But you know, I don't think it would be appealing to folks to say, November 15th, it's all on you.

I think we'd have more pushback than we do even now.

Okay.

Um and my final question is moving to next year.

Um what's it is there a different approach than we had this past uh fall winter.

So we part of the part of this pilot, we'll call it the bagging pilot that we're doing this spring, is something we want to see how it works for our staff, and it's something we could potentially do in fall.

So, you know, the first thing we always do is just rake out into the curb uh so we can actually push and consolidate and move out.

It's the quickest operation for us to do.

But we're trying to think of can we supplement this and do we have the workforce to basically do bag at the same time?

So this becomes to people that don't want to push there or are delayed and they can do it on request.

We're trying to pilot that this spring.

Um additionally, we have reached out to third party vendors for leaf collection with some staggering costs tied to that.

Um we had a couple of meetings and some of these folks are looking for 500 bucks a location, which is not feasible for the city at all.

Um so we we're continuing to look at ideas.

And if if anybody has like folks that want to to to give us more and shoot it our way, we're we're more than happy to.

So but we're always looking for alternatives.

I think the pilot after, and maybe this is after this spring, we come back sometime like in and June and just discuss how leaf collection went this spring to say does the bags work?

Do they not?

Because I think that could help folks on a request.

We just gotta see what it looks like from a staffing perspective.

Gold care?

I'm done.

Yeah, okay.

I don't remember.

I get the idea of the bagging for leaves that are on grassy surfaces or private property.

That may be once people get used to it, a preferred method of going.

That's what Chicago does.

They don't have rake out.

They don't have massive leaf collecting operations in the fall.

Everybody bagged their own leaves and and they're especially picked up by by city vehicles.

But what about the leaves that are in the street now?

There are parts of the city with very high density parking where the leaves were not touched in the fall at all, because there were parked cars in the way.

And I saw the streepers uh sweepers out the other day, and there was sweeping the center line of the street.

Which makes no sense.

There's nothing in the center line of the street, it's already clean.

It's the curb lanes.

So what's the plan to deal with these curb lanes in areas with intense parking congestion?

What's the plan?

Yeah, so hope for the best.

Hope that when your your team comes through, the cars are gone and moved, and if not, too bad, just it they get skipped.

Yeah, so in the past, we we I think we piloted this last year and a couple other times is you know, putting up no parking.

So what part of what you're saying, all the buttons.

Are we gonna do that again this summer?

I'll explain.

So just before we go into that, so any time we have an exception street, that means a street that can be parked on both sides.

This is where this happens.

And I know it's in the fourth district, there's a lot in the third district.

Uh it's probably about 30% of the city where people are parking on both sides just based on density needs.

Um, which causes, you know, when the city was first set up, exception streets weren't there because then we can basically clean one side of the street, parking switches, and we can uh maintain the other one.

So I think we did it, it was in Old Remember, was it in your yeah, we tried it in your district, I think, Oliver Bauman.

Last summer, and it was the cleanest it's ever been.

And it's great for two weeks.

And so there's costs tied to that and uh a lot of effort.

Um it doesn't mean we can't do it.

I mean, I think what we're gonna try to evaluate after this spring cleanup is are there areas that need heavy clean and probably try to entertain, you know, doing no parking at one side just to get that first layer off the roadways because it it is a challenge.

But for us to kind of time when we're gonna come through is it's it's tough.

I mean, we don't have you know a small community like you know, our partners around us.

I mean, we have 96.2 square miles, we have 5,000 million miles.

It's it's a it's a big undertaking, but we're not opposed to it.

We just it's all based on the number of staff we have because it's that's the only way we're gonna get to some of those because people, even if they're going to work during the day, there's different shifts, so they're never a hundred percent open at one side or the other.

Exactly.

So I I mean I don't know.

I've given up.

I figured our w in my immediate neighborhood on the Kunconcordia area, the the leaves will never be picked up.

Ever.

Because there's constant parked cars in the way.

So there you have it.

I mean and of course it's blocking the drains.

And so there's a lot of ponding that results from that as well.

And I think we have some tangible data for what we did in Kakoria last year, which we could do again.

Residents were happy, the neighbor the homeowners were everybody was happy except the few cars.

Well, the cars that got towed.

But again, I not not to use Chicago, but I have personal experience.

What they do works in a much bigger city with way more lane miles.

There's no raking out to the curb.

They rely on their street sweeping practices, which do clear one side of the street for blocks at a time with no parking, although they don't tow, they just ticket, but people are educated, have learned how that works, so they do move, and then they come through and those streets are clean without the rake out, and everybody rakes out using bags.

In a city that's way bigger with way more lane miles, so the challenges you cype, they are five times worse.

So somehow it seems to get done there.

Again, I I don't know their budget or their their staffing capacity either.

So, but I mean I I would like to have information just like you're saying Ola Bauman just.

Milwaukee streets will be dirtier than other cities.

Just the reality, is that what you're telling us?

You just have to accept the reality that you just have to put up with these conditions.

Well, I think that comes in turn budget discussions of you know what can we fit under our budget.

I mean, I do want to entertain if you do have areas that basically are compact like that, to potentially just get that first layer off of you know pounded leaves, because I think it's a possibility.

It is and it doesn't take the whole entire city.

I mean, some of the areas that are exception streets are cleaned, but there are some really high dense areas.

So I mean, if if you do have those, just bring to our attention, then maybe we can try to address those this spring during the next six weeks to twelve weeks.

It's the same list you had last year.

Yeah, I know Oliver Brower probably has some in his district as well.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

All right.

Honor Browner.

Yeah, thank you.

Um no, and I I first of all just really appreciate that we're piloting some sort of bagging.

I mean, I think that that is a solution.

Um, every one of these things has pros and cons.

Um I have shared with constituents that the easiest method on the east side to alleviate the situation with the leaves is to go back to alternate alternate side parking.

That's not very popular.

And I'm not that's not a policy proposal.

I'm just like that, that would be the most mechanically easiest thing to do would be to have alternate side parking.

I don't know how we would do that in some of these areas in some of the areas.

I mean, it would be you'd be parking six, seven, eight blocks from your house.

Or if you I mean if you don't have access to any sort of private parking whatsoever.

So that is next to unfeasible.

Um beyond that, I mean, I would just say that like I I'm really glad we're looking at this bagging because I would probably agree with Alderman Bauman that you know that's the next step of solution is to just is the for people to not rake it into the street.

Um I guess, and we do have the same problem as well.

Um, people just I mean, the only spot that's open on a block is the spot where everybody's just somebody's raked leaves into, and then some person who uh maybe isn't expressing all the consideration for the neighborhood that they should parks there out of convenience in that spot where the piles of leaves are literally I've seen people park right on top of the I mean I I mean how does it not interfere with your car's mechanical system when you're parking on these piles of leaves, right?

I've seen people park right on top of the I mean I I mean how does it not interfere with your car's mechanical system when you're parking on these piles of leaves, right?

Like, you know, so it's uh I mean that's and that's a decision that driver makes.

I mean, there's no I don't want to be ticket for anything like that, right?

Like, oh, there's a leaf pile, you shouldn't have parked there.

We could uh we don't even issue a citation for anything like that, and I'm not suggesting we should, but you know, it's just like how we can get around this, and even in areas where there's less parking, you know, I'm sure this also happens as well.

I'd be curious from alders um from other parts of the city, you know, how prevalent this is with people parking on the leaf piles, and then they aren't.

I mean, we there's no way.

Let me just confirm with you that there's there's no way that uh for both of you two here, there's no way that we could collect the leaves that are underneath the vehicle, like and current certainly now when you might call it like a leaf cake that's underneath the that's underneath the vehicle, there's no way that we could collect that under a parked car right now.

Just not when a car's parked there.

Usually what happens is that the car moves out of the way, then sometimes we'll end up bringing a skid loader just to basically scrape the pavement to kind of peel some of those areas off.

Um just to kind of tie into what you said all their bit is you know, some other cities, all they do is do based on requests.

And so, and they just do a bagging operation.

We've kind of found that out to reach around the country of what leaf operations are.

So there's people in the east coast, like if you want your leaves picked up, it's bag and it's by request.

That's all they do.

Besides the normal operation, they'll take care of whatever's in the roadway, but everything else is on the homeowner, which is the normal sweeping operation.

Yeah, normal yeah, sweeping and they will still push whatever comes into the roadway, but we're not telling those residents to take all their leaves off of their roadways and push them into the middle, which is an interesting concept.

Um I don't think in the past we were prepared for that.

I mean, some of the technology we put into place now, like I mean, we've seen it during the flooding last year is that Routeware where we can identify where things are, could potentially change the way we operate and get those requests so it's more feasible for us to loop through it.

It's an option.

Um that basically says that we just go full bag and that it just comes into homeowners' requests.

And it's it's a possible appealing aspect.

It takes the pressure off of putting it in there, but it also puts a lot of onus on the homeowner to do that.

Correct.

Correct.

I mean, again, it adds another additional layer of responsibility.

And then the question that, like, yeah, well, uh, yeah, sometimes we won't do it.

I mean, then the question comes into them what do you you know, enforcement and somebody doesn't know that we changed our policy, and so now grandma gets a citation.

You know, we don't want it, we don't want any of that stuff either.

So you know, this is this is quite a perplexing, you know, problem.

I mean, I certainly mean I think we all I I can appreciate that the goal here from the department and from everybody here present is that we don't want um that situation to exist currently.

I mean, we don't nobody wants you know um the the little leaf cakes to exist in the on the streets currently.

So um no, I just it just you know, just some food for thought on all these things.

I mean, I really want to see us a more you know permanent solution to this.

Are we do we have an ordinance requirement?

Does anybody know off the off the top of their head if we have an ordinance requirement that requires raking?

Uh it it doesn't require raking, but it allows raking.

So basically, um if outside of the uh it's within the litter ordinance that says people can't put stuff in the street, you know, you can't put dirt debris yardway, you can't do that.

But there's um there's a where it says except for basically under the commissioner's authority for the fall leaf program.

Okay, just specifically for leaves.

But like let me let me let me phrase it every way.

Somebody has a yard, the leaves fall on it.

Is there anything in our ordinance that would come that compels them to actually rake the gr off it uh it off the grass?

They could let the leaves decompose as would happen in a state of nature.

Yes.

And in fact, that is that is the top practice that we like recommend is that people mow and mulch them and if it's too much for your mower and to leave on the lawn for uh build that organic matter and natural fertilizer if you have too much for that, then you know, use it as mulch around your plants.

Like that that's the best way to both use that resource as well as the most cost effective.

Well, and I'll just offer some commentary on that too.

I mean, this is literally like you know, when leaves fall on the ground and they rest there, that's a habitat for insects to overwinter.

We're you know, there's uh media coverage that we're you know, losing insects faster than any other type of species that's out there.

That's why this planet might not be inhabitable in the near future, right?

Like, I mean, the other we're we're losing the insect population's pollinators.

That is habitat for them, but America, for whatever reason, has a higher priority of this like chem lawn mode to mode gr completely green, only one species allowed on a lawn kind of mentality that we have in this country too.

And then now, and then that drives this idea that oh, well, a leaf on the ground needs to be raked for some reason.

I mean, like I I just want to enter that into this conversation too.

We should really be, you know, really questioning why are we even considering this as a like a necessity.

I mean, you know, drinking water is a great necessity, although you do electricity is a great necessity, internet, those things, and then we're treating the fact that we need to rake the leaves out into the that the lawns have to be clear so we can have this pristine like white picket fence, you know, chemically induced um green landscape that kills everything and is destroying the planet.

I mean that like I'd I want to push back on that too.

So anyway, I'm I'm finished with my comments though.

No, keep going, you're on a roll.

That's hey I well, you know, you don't I love getting our roll here.

I I've heard I've heard conflict I I've heard those theories that the leaves are actually good to it's actually good to leave them be.

Yeah.

I mean I you know, I I would just say that like that's that's something that should enter into what we're what we're thinking here.

How can we be more environmental?

I mean, there are I mean I haven't entered it in the file, and maybe I should.

Media articles about you know, there's we're losing, you know, insects are rapidly declining.

Those are the ones that are pollinating the uh plants that we eat, you know, so it is really it is really a problem, and then that's and that's an addition to I mean that's just one piece of it, right?

That's an addition to people um you know going out and and spraying lawns and and that sort of thing and trying to have it just be a single species um of uh you know I mean Kentucky bluegrass or whatever species we're using isn't even native to the United States um in the end, anyway.

So it really should be you know fully questioned, I think.

But I just wanted to confirm that because we have gotten some emails to my office from people who are interested in protecting insect populations.

Yeah, then that and I just want to confirm because we can reply to them and let them know that there is no they've asked us to amend the ordinances to allow people to not rake.

Because there are some groups are maybe under the impression that we are forcing people to rake their lawns, and that just you've confirmed that that is not a requirement under ordinances, nobody will be cited by DNS or in any way for not raking their lawn.

No.

Okay.

No, that it's a valid point.

I think this is where it comes into education of the public too.

The more you can take care of and mulch and and all these environmental impact type things, you know, instead of you know, folks backyard, they're taking the trees that are personally their trees, you know, under their and they're taking those and then actually put it in the city right of way instead of us just maintaining which is you know the hundred and ninety eight thousand we have.

We're taking private leaves.

I mean, if they can if the public can continually just try to mulch, I mean, that is the the biggest way that reduces impact to the uh bagging option it is a solution.

Correct.

Then you you bag or or not.

If you don't, that's that's can you leave the leaves where they are?

Uh uh Madam Chair.

I don't remember our.

Yeah, just and so the question to kind of wrap up some of the the to tie to reality some of the theoretical stuff we're talking about.

If they can go successfully this spring, when and if we wanted to consider a major overhaul of leaf collection, um what what are the constraints or timelines around that that we need to consider?

We'd have to have something probably in so our our leaf operation starts in October.

It's light because it's just trees are still holding on to leaves.

So to have something that we were talking, you'd have to do something in summer, so you give the public at least you know a couple of months to understand what policy changes there'd be a lot of outreach.

So if you kind of work backwards, that puts you in probably August, you'd have to have something finalized if we're gonna do some wholesale changes just so you can get the public to know this is what's going to happen.

Yeah.

Um and there'd always be a transition.

So if we decide to do a full overhaul, it wouldn't be perfect, you know, coming into the fall season.

But just to put the context in there, we'd have to have something by August, but probably before the recess, just to give time to educate the public of what's gonna happen.

Okay.

And we're all fall.

Oh, sorry.

Oh no, I just had a quick question, because all the discussion about um leaving leaves where they are, if you don't rank them before the snowfall, then you end up with dead with dead grass.

Is this people like that?

So you so you what?

So people like that.

No.

But so even if we don't require leaves to be raked throughout the season throughout the summer or fall, um, right before winter, if they're not raked, then when when the snow leaves, then you end up with a mess because you know it's a bunch of mud.

So yeah, so I don't want to give that impression that don't rake at all.

Well, when we say don't rake it all, I mean you can you can do that, we can leave there's what we're talking about is like when you're doing your regular molly and grass, it kind of it basically it mixes in there so it gets the finer pieces, not big leaves just sitting there and killing grass.

And if you do have a large amount of there, it's just using that around the edges, like into to planters and under trees, etc.

That's what we're talking about.

So there are folks that just don't want to do anything, and that's that's up to them.

Uh but we're talking about more of a mulching and keeping that basically all the leaves that are dropped on your private property in your private property.

Yeah, and it won't harm the grass over the winter because the grass goes dormant.

So it's really just a matter of yeah, yeah.

If if you came back to the spring and you hadn't mowed mowed the leaves to break them up more in the fall, um in the and so they're still there in the winter or in the spring when the grass starts growing, you know, you'd you'd want to make sure to mow because if if they're covering their you know, they're not getting the light from the sun to make their food and so on to for the grass to grow.

But over the winter, it doesn't harm it at all.

It's messier in the deal with them in the spring.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Are there any other questions?

If if I may, madam chair, I just wanted to highlight a couple of components for the public.

So with this opportunity, again, coming back to like, okay, right now what what's uh available for residents, just to remind that um people may rake leaves, they don't have to.

They may uh rake their leaves uh to the um street during this this period through through this coming Sunday.

Um we start messaging that out um you know a week or so ago, and um had some good media coverage on it, and we've seen the pile, we've seen you know that that's happening, um, but still looking to you know, help get the word out more, and we're gonna um uh Tiffany's gonna do another um push to the press here going into the weekend.

So um people are are allowed, they may rake the leaves back out through this Sunday.

Um also may use the paper compostable lawn leaf bags.

Um that's something I want to make sure I stress because part of this pilot is um and and we were leery about allowing bags is that it if people are just using black, you know, plastic bags, this is not gonna work.

Right.

And so really, you know, focusing on the uh the the lawn bags that you can buy at local grocery hardware stores or like eighty cents a piece.

Um if someone wants to bag them, or they're an area where they're thinking that you know, parking or whatever that's more reliable if I make that effort to bag and put a pickup request.

For that, for what's raked in the street, it doesn't requ require just like in the fall, it doesn't require a request for someone to say, okay, I raked, I'm gonna call the city because it's operating just like our final round in the fall, where we're gonna go through every route.

Um it's really if you if if uh one puts out the bags, we we ask for them to call because we might handle that a little differently.

Um, you know, we'll we'll try to get them all regardless, but we we do ask that if if you are using the paper leaf bags that you uh also uh put in a request online or through the city.

Um what else am I missing?

So that's that's the main thing.

Uh once we start the final round, again, we have to have a deadline because we can't um uh we have to start somewhere and somebody's gonna get cleaned up, you know, Monday.

Uh well, depending on the snow, but when when we start, um someone's gonna get cleaned up first, and and we're gonna progress through all the routes, and so um we have to have that deadline so people aren't raking past it.

So the Sunday would be that deadline, and um and the public can go to the website to track um on our regular Milwaukee.gov backslash leaves.

There's all this information that we're um talking about, as well as a map um that will show progress um where we are show our our leaf routes, you can enter your address to orient yourself and it will show um the status of of routes about what what we have coming up next, what's in progress, what's completed.

Okay.

So those bags are gonna go just on the curb or yes, yes.

We'd ask them to go on the curb line, uh not in the street.

Okay.

Uh honor member.

Yeah, uh Ms.

Morland, thank you so much for bringing this file forward and to the commissioner and and Rick, thank you so much.

Any other questions from committee?

Uh small I will move to place this on the bio.

And we got one more item before we take it up.

I just want a five-minute break.

Thank you.

Yep.

Item 15.

Oh, I like to call the meeting back to order.

We have item 15 number two, five one, six six six six six six six four motion relating to the recommendations of the public works committee relating to licenses.

Can we please have uh Muhammad Sarfraz public passenger vehicle driver's license application come before us?

Please raise your right hand so you can be swanning.

Do you select me affirm under the penalties and tensions of the perjury of the state of Wisconsin that the testimony you're about to give is the truth and only the truth?

Yes.

Thank you.

Are you in receipt of notice of today's meeting with the possibility that your application may be denied?

Denied.

Yes.

Uh no, ma'am chair.

Uh Sergeant Umelasquez is the year at police report.

Officer Felix.

Um I mean, I'm sorry.

Uh the applicant is a convicted sex offender.

Thank you.

Uh members may recall um that we did hear this um application uh a couple cycles ago.

Um, it was sent back um to committee.

Um, part of the reason that it was access to uh sent back to committee.

Um given the uh severity of the uh conviction that this um applicant had, and given how the meeting went in the sense of it did not feel like we had a lot of information.

Um taxi cab drivers have a lot of um power, power to lock doors, power to control direction, power to um really have influence over whoever their passenger seems to be.

Um so I think it's incumbent upon us to get as much information as possible um so that we can be as confident as possible in the licenses that we um give um that um those who choose to ride in the um cabs of the drivers that we um license um at least have the opportunity to be as safe um as possible.

And in looking back at that meeting, the information was so fragmented and it was not clear about so many things.

I just wanted us to be as clear as possible um before we um made permanent decisions.

The other the other thing too um that I also wanted all of us to be aware of is um that the issue of sexual assault in general um is often uh underreported.

So even the numbers that we get oftentimes that we see that we use statistically are far lower than what the real numbers may be.

And in the realm of taxi cabs and Ubers and Lyfts, um, there is research that shows between um 2017 and 2019 lift disclosed 4,158 reports of sexual assault while Uber reported nearly 6,000 incidents um in 2017 and 2018.

Um of course they argue about that, and the U.S.

government accountability office has also put out um similar statistics with those similar numbers uh for companies um like this and private taxi cab companies are generally less likely to do public reporting of the amount of sexual assaults that are uh reported uh to them.

And private taxicab companies are generally less likely to do public reporting of the amount of sexual assaults that are reported to them.

I say that because just to set the stage for how serious it is in relationship to the responsibility that this license is to all those that we consider before us.

Guide us on for the city attorney.

That said, uh building a substantial relationship between the charge, conviction, or um other criminality, and um the actual license that's sought is something again, it's kind of a first step there.

Um and again, there are uh charges that themselves are exempt from allegations of employment discrimination.

So if someone is um working specifically in the alcohol industry, uh there are uh drug charges that um are exempted from consideration for employment discrimination.

If someone's working with uh children, there are um child safety charges uh that are exempted from consideration or exempted from the attack against the determination of um employment discrimination.

So there are um again um there are places where a determination based on a conviction does not trigger um a an allegation or a um substantiated claim of employment discrimination.

Um one of those that's uh a pretty consistent one, and I think would be material here is um violence against children.

Um so that is an exception to um an employment discrimination claim as against licensing or um again it within Wisconsin's fair employment, um, because again, the substantial relationship between the licensure and um the charge itself.

Any questions for the city attorney?

All right.

Um Mr.

Sefras, um the officer Felix um shared what is on your um police record.

Did you want to speak to that?

Yeah, court not give me fair trial, you know.

I have my own attorney.

He he coming against me.

I filed I'm sorry, Mr.

Safraz.

I think I skipped a step.

You're supposed to state your name and address uh for the record, if you could please.

Okay, my name is Mohammed Sarfraz.

I'm living in 2258 South 22nd Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 53221.

Thank you.

Go ahead.

Yeah.

That's why the decision, you know, coming the court cannot give me fair trial, you know.

I have an owner to me, I'm not have public friend, or he coming against me.

I filed two motion that time, otherwise uh the court accept me, my motion, that result coming different, you know.

That I hired my attorney, he forced me to plead guilty, you know.

Why are and I have asking police report uh no medical report, you know.

He not uh provide me.

I he asked I pay him money too, you know, that time he he listen uh uh what's it uh district attorney, you know.

He he against me.

I filed motion two times, judges deny me.

Someone give me attorney to uh Chicago Phil Turner.

I I I wanna hire him, you know.

He give me currently he charging me hundred thousand dollars for case.

He said I've win the case, but judge at two five motion judges deny me, you know.

You you have record, then I'm going to appeal court, I win that.

Then the building taxes, you know, attorney general there building, you know, uh he give me then the lust though, you know.

Uh going to appeal court, you have record, I went there, you know, case my wife alone, I have three children, she she filed it a bit if I have more money then I go into maybe more.

I blow I lost uh all money then I lost that case on Supreme Court.

Any questions from um committee?

Um I I have three daughters, I have wife, I'm a lone person working.

I'm asking you, please, you know, I'm backing you, you know.

Uh we I'm only person working, you know.

Is it so is it your I I hear you talk about the you know how you didn't feel properly represented?

Um but you did get did you plead guilty or you got convicted?

No convicted.

So you so you were convicted of second degree sexual assault?

Yes.

Was it was it with use of a weapon?

Oh yes, yeah.

Alright.

Um so how long did you spend in jail?

Uh ten in five out um I'm um free, no, no, nothing any charges, no any, you know.

Did you receive any treatment?

Oh yes.

Yeah, a lot of you know, yeah.

Um did you learn anything from the treatment?

Yes, of course, you know.

I'm learning a lot of learn.

I I damaged a lot, you see the you know, I'm not young no more, you know.

I lost everything, you know.

I have three daughters going to market university, you know.

I'm only person to, you know, take care of my family.

I wanna work.

I work hard, you I work used to be taxi.

You look, you know, as ten years work driving, you know, used to be.

Any other questions from committee?

So there's no other convictions outside of this one?

No, no, no, any anything yet.

And you were released in 2020?

Yes.

Is it a reason you didn't try to get this license earlier?

Yes, the I think so.

Yeah, I filed.

I filed another job, you know, but my record, you know, they all have everybody deny me, you know.

If how I work, you know, if any anyone deny me, how they mean I cannot work anywhere.

I I'm a human being, you know.

It's it's happen is happened, you know, but you say it's happened, it's happened.

What do you mean?

I don't know, it's is accident.

I I call accident.

So you're saying your um second degree sexual assault with a weapon was an accident.

I I tell you is if uh is a long story, you know.

If I I I don't want to go with that.

Um other questions from committee.

I guess um the woman uh chairwoman asked if you had learned anything after going through treatment, and I wasn't very clear on um because you can't describe this as an accident because it's it's a choice.

It's a conscious choice made.

Um and what have you learned to say, hey, this is not something that I would do again?

Yes, of course.

Yeah, I'm I'm not doing yeah, never happen, you know.

I'm not no more kids, you know.

Um I'm see daughter, father, you know, I have three daughters.

So are you saying because you have three daughters that that is um something that will keep you from harming someone else?

Yes, yes.

Did you have three daughters at the time of the commission of this um second-degree sexual assault?

Yes, that um is one year, T year, and five year.

Thank you.

Oh no, I'm saying you still have the floor.

That that that's all I have.

Any other questions from committee?

Are there any neighbors present that wish to testify?

Let the record reflect that there are no neighbors present to testify.

We are in committee.

Is there any discussion?

Oh, Madam Chair.

Yeah.

Um this is obviously a you know, complexing situation.

Um we have, I mean, it appears what's going through my mind.

I I'd appreciate what other elders are thinking.

Um, but what's going through my mind is here in front of us.

We have an individual who was found guilty of a pretty serious offense, uh very serious offense.

Um and went to prison and is um currently on the sex offender registry.

Um what capacity do we and and here we hold you know something that we could grant to this individual um or not?

Um you know, what capacity and do we believe, and and in what context do we believe that people can change and not commit things they've done in the past.

That's what's on my mind.

That's the question that's on my mind.

I mean, I would say that it is um possible um with determination for people to change their behaviors and attitudes um that would then precipitate, you know, positive actions and not ones like what was committed.

Um so I'm I'm in you know more inclined than not to grant this, but I I'd appreciate the the thought process of other alders.

I mean, I like I do see from this applicant a level of remorse that could indicate that that something like this is not going to be happening again.

Um but I I would be curious about the thoughts of other alders here.

I'm not my mind is not totally made up.

Madam Chair?

Arteman, um City attorney.

The the offense was when exactly the year.

Uh 2020 was when registration began.

Sixteen years ago.

Yeah, it looks like the incident?

Yes.

That was the filing date of the court case.

Okay, and he received ten years of incarceration and extended supervision as well.

I think it was five years out.

Yeah.

And so all that's been served?

Yes.

Without incident, as far as we know.

Uh, as far as we know, you're correct.

I I would join Alderman Brower approving this.

City High would ask you this.

Can you retest the statute of uh what defines second degree sexual assault?

Uh so second, yeah, I can grab that in a second here.

So um it'll take me a second.

Um again, degrees um are matters of interpretation, um, either by the charging official or sometimes by the court.

Um let me get that up for you though.

And as to um the age of the victim, there's no indication that there was a charge for um violence against a child, so you can disregard some of those previous statements um as to that, but again, the materiality and the substantial relationship between this license and the assault um is um it is definitely built in, I think, to the determination.

Um so second degree sexual assault as described in the statute is has sexual contact with or sexual intercourse with another person without consent of that person by use of threat, force or violence, and then we have a modifier um which is use of a dangerous weapon.

Um so that again attaches um a further penalty.

So you have force or threat or violence, and then you have the actual use of the um dangerous weapon.

And the weapon was a firearm.

Uh if that's what you're reading, I I okay.

Was the weapon a firearm?

Actually, uh, I deny that one.

I I'm not used that she uh hit me.

She the her own life.

Uh she hit me and she injured me.

Um I'm lit down I'll face my bleeding, you know.

Um she living with me for six three months my own house uh you know she leaving me that time no happen.

Should just family matter that fighting you the she you know so it was a night, yes, gets yes.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Other man, what's wrong?

It's questions for uh the city attorney.

Um being on that registry.

That restricts you from having a job involving children, correct?

The um it's not necessarily a uh it's not necessarily a direct bar against all interaction with children.

Um and again, because this charge doesn't involve children necessarily, um there's not that kind of nexus or that that clean nexus.

There are individual and specific licenses that say there's a felony disqualification period on engagement with so um I think there are daycare workers and there's some other DSPS that's state licensure, if sought would be denied out out of hand or immediately because of any felony conviction.

So restrictions.

Yes.

What are his restrictions based on um there's a DSPS list um as far as the license licenses that they issue?

I think it's daycare teacher, nanny, there are some other uh involvements that are just direct bars on any felony conviction.

Again, it has nothing to do with the the charge at uh 940 point two, whatever the sexual the second degree sexual assault is.

So he's restricted from transporting nannies and daycare workers?

That's what you're saying?

No, nanny's in he he there um I would assume again DSPS would disallow him from getting licensed to be a nanny or a daycare worker.

So those are licensed professions by the state.

But there are no restrictions as to who he can trans a ride to if he has a right.

That would be because we're issuing the license, we're issuing that hack license.

There would be really no way in which we could prevent who enters his cap.

Right.

I was just curious being on that registry if there were any restrictions, that's all.

And so that would be a question to the DOC, his his proximity.

Um I don't see any bar on that, but again, that's that's between him and the Department of Corrections, and we have little or no indication from the Department of Corrections as to further limitations from him from engaging.

Because again, there's no indication of uh uh child uh sexual assault here.

Um there's no um there's no bar on, or at least we don't know of a bar on um his being close to or near children.

Should we know?

Um prior to approving or not approving?

That's uh we've made a discretionary choice in the council uh by kind of barring or limiting our scope of review for background checks to 10 years.

The reason that this one has come up because it is past that 10-year um uh kind of limit that we normally do, it's because of the sexual assault.

Because of that permanent registry on the sexual offender list, that kind of trumps our look back period.

Um so again, that was a discretionary choice.

Um, and and generally um these things like sexual assaults kind of again remain important and remain in consideration by the committee permanently.

Got it, thank you.

Jim.

How was DLC consulted or no because of the reasons?

Do DOC was not consulted because he was off probation at the time that the background check was initiated.

Madam Chair.

Uh so you're saying that our look back period is 10 years.

So we don't know prior to 10 years, and that's only because he's on the registry.

But prior to 10 years, we don't know what his record is.

Correct.

Yep.

Yep.

And that's that's with all licensees or applicants, rather.

So we don't know if any other incidents occurred prior to 10 years.

That's correct.

Okay.

Ask him.

He's under oath.

Was there any other incidents that occurred prior to 10 years ago?

No.

This is the only incident ever.

Thank you.

Um there may be a corollary here, and I think it's still subject to attorney Gresham's interpretation of employment discrimination law, but the corollary is that the uh state of Wisconsin does license network transportation vehicles, which are typically app-based.

Um, and their statutes do have some prohibitions against licensing drivers that are on the sex offense registry.

Uh it's contained in chapter 440 445 of the statutes.

So can I ask another question, Madam Chair?

Go ahead.

Okay, so you're saying those those things, because I was gonna ask whether or not there was some tracking.

So you have those um Rise Share programs that have tracking devices, so you can track where the person is.

But if he's in a cab, is there any kind of tracking device?

Um there's no it's not like Uber or anything, so there's no one who knows where you are.

Are you connected with some company that you check in with and they know where you are or what rides you've done, or is it just your cab?

Uh you would are you accountable to anyone as an employee with your cab that someone knows where you are?

Are you checking in and out with some company, or is it just your cab that you just decide to drive when you want to?

Uh I don't know.

Uh used to be the habit of IC, you know, they know of it.

Um you know a 15 year I'm not, you know, drive.

I don't know what what you're doing.

You just drive.

Yeah, just drive, you know.

You just drive.

They used to be I'm driving uh American United that, but I don't know that still have the I don't I don't think so they have company all.

But that time they have DOIC, you know, they've got to meet I'm going with you know yes.

Okay.

So you will be employed with a company that have cabs and they will know where you are.

Yes.

Okay.

Um and you're saying um, Jim, that uh those app those ride share programs will restrict employment employing someone that has a a felony conviction, such as this.

R uh ride share companies are licensed by the state.

The state has some license licensing qualifications spelled out in the statute, and um one of them, and and again deferring to attorney gresham on uh employment discrimination, but one of those is a prohibition against being on um a sex offende sex offender registry under 301.45 or the national sex offender public website.

Okay.

So are you saying he could not drive Uber or Lyft?

Uber or Lyft, but he can drive taxi license?

Under the state law, the Uber and Lyft have been facing mounted criticism because of um their allowance of others, so the network company itself theoretically should be barring um those individuals, but whether or not they're actually doing that, whether or not they're actually doing the background checks is another an issue.

Um there was a recent court case in New York where they faced some substantial liability.

Well, that was a debate we had here when we were just discussing licensing ride share, and the state took it away.

Yep.

We had a very good regulatory scheme in place, which would have required these kinds of background checks conducted by MPS, plus our vehicle inspections, plus mandatory insurance requirements, which the state which they didn't like, and so they lobbied the state, and the state took it over.

And now you have the wild west out there with Uber and Lyft.

Any other questions from the committee?

Yes.

Um, so I I just wanted to be clear.

So if you were released in 2020 and you've been on probation for the last did you say five years?

Maybe it was five.

So there's been oversight.

Um so for us to um to grant a license now, there is no oversight.

There is no real accountability as you would get with a ride share program.

So I would still have concern about this type of employment.

So I I would still have concern.

Any other um comments or anybody?

Um pass the gavel.

Right.

I do um understand that you know uh trying to find stable employment is a challenge for many folks, particularly those who have been incarcerated.

I also under understand our process, which we generally look back to 10 years.

In this case, though, um, Mr.

Surprise spent 10 years in jail.

So whether he was reformed or not, there of course is not gonna be anything on there for the 10 years.

Um, and then as Audar Woman Tyler just pointed out, the five years was with supervision.

Um so now it's a question of um whether we you know believe that it's an opportunity to um you know for people to change and grow and whatever.

Part of the reason I asked some of the questions I asked was to be able to assess that, right?

Um and what I've learned um through my own study of you know sexual assault um perpetrators, um, and just human nature is first there has to be an acceptance and acknowledgement of what you've done.

Um since Mr.

Safraz has sat here, yes, um, he has um given us a lot of uh excuses for what has occurred and and um it even said he caused ac accident second-degree sexual assault with a weapon is not an accident.

Then and when asked, when you want to think about those redemptive qualities of folks and how people grow and change, when asked about counseling and you know, all of that, and the pure opportunity, pure opportunity to speak to um all the redemptive things that have occurred um with him and his life um since this um has happened and since he has had treatment, and that did not occur though.

I didn't hear anything redemptive um here today.

So then it's about for me whether I have confidence that in us in this city giving this license to this applicant, will residents of the city of Milwaukee and those who take his cab from this point forward, um, not have to worry about the potential even of such a uh crime being committed on them.

I don't know that I had that confidence, there was nothing said here today that gives me that confidence, and what I refuse to have is the guilt for if we get it wrong, and someone does get hurt.

So for me, I wanted to of course give Ms.

Mr.

Surprise the opportunity to come and you know, share with us that which we did not know, um, and any additional information he could to help make it clear to us that he's redeemed and this isn't likely to happen again, and I just had to say for me, that did not happen here today.

In fact, I probably got more questions.

Um with that, and given the to me, the seriousness of his conviction and the nexus between being a cab driver and being able to lock those doors, divert, divert the um route, and um pick up people who are intoxicated or have uh other issues, um it just not a recipe, I think um that we as a city should be adding to.

Um it just is not a recipe, I think um that we as a city should be uh adding to.

Um so I would move um denial, madam chair.

Alderwoman Tyler.

I do want to point out too that um, and and I think I definitely have a responsibility to do that, that when we think of um survivors, because that's what we call them survivors, um survivors don't forget this is something that um that they have to live with for the rest of their life, and sometimes um it may be something that would hinder them from being able to move past that it it really inhibits them from from growth.

Some may have a support system that they could, um, but it's really it's it's it's really um very difficult um to endure, and and I think that that we need to really just stay focused on the the survivor and what happens after an incident like that occurs, that it's very difficult for them sometimes, and and so we don't want to forget that is it's a lifetime sentence that they have to live with.

Um so I just wanted to make sure that I pointed that out because we just can't forget the survivors.

Anybody else?

The motion by Alder Woman Cox is denial.

Do we have any objections to that?

I do.

One objection.

Any other objections?

Do we need to do a roll call since there's an objection?

No.

No.

Okay.

The motion uh passes uh 4 10 and with no further business, we're adjourned.