These homes are not part of a new suburban subdivision.

They are part of the revitalization of the central city of Milwaukee.

20 new homes, seven different styles in the heart of the city within the parkland public housing development.

These homes are all four-bedroom.

They range either two, two and a half bathrooms, two and a half car garages, central air.

These are modular homes.

In other words, they were built in a factory and truck down here and sit on a foundation that we did ourselves.

They'll range in price between 130,000 to 155,000 dollars.

They're available to any housing authority eligible resident.

Applicants don't have to currently live in public housing, but Department of Housing and Urban Development Guidelines say buyers should be families who would be eligible to live in public housing.

A ten thousand dollar grant is available to help out.

All the response has been excellent.

Some have some difficulty with the price.org or by calling 286-5126.

And there's more.

Fannie Mae, the nation's largest source of financing for home mortgages and North Milwaukee State Bank announced a $10 million faith-based lending homeownership initiative to help low and moderate income home buyers.

Stabilize your community.

Increase your wealth.

And that's what this is all about today.

Home ownership for as many as 150 families is the goal of this new program.

Officials say many people could find themselves paying less per month for a mortgage payment than they're paying in rent.

And we know we have a lot of individuals in our community that is credit challenged.

And so the programs that we're offering today will help resolve some of those issues.

You can get in a home with no money down for some people and as little as $500 down for other folks.

And so we think we have a broad enough program that can reach deep into our community and make sure that we begin to turn around home ownership in our community.

For the longest time, uh I've been charged, amongst other things at Fanny May, with trying to increase minority home ownership.

And one of the ways that we've been trying to do that is reaching out to the faith community because we really feel that the faith community as a trusted advisor can really talk to folks about the value of owning a home.

So let me say what a joy it is to uh to be here today and to indicate the support uh for this wonderful, wonderful project to empower community and to make our place a wonderful place to be.

North Milwaukee State Bank will originate the low-down payment loans, and Fannie Mae has agreed to purchase the eligible loans.

You can call the bank at 466-2344 for information.

This is a good partnership, and it impuls involves good institutions in the community.

The uh state of Wisconsin is proud uh that um institutions that are important for building communities in Milwaukee are coming together to build our neighborhoods, which are the building blocks for great cities.

Hopefully, this initiative will act as a catalyst to bring back the central city housing market and encourage further positive economic development activity in the uh community.

Put graffiti in its place was the theme for the annual anti-graffities spring kickoff in Milwaukee.

Students from St.

Amelia Lakeside and Prince of Peace School painted trash cans and created posters to promote the city's anti-graffiti efforts.

So we really appreciate your help in this.

It helps to make Milwaukee uh even more beautiful place than it would be otherwise if we keep it clean.

Then the other thing I wanted to mention was don't let anybody ever confuse you to think of graffiti as art.

We even have people coming from other countries and other states to view what we've done because we have been successful in fighting this.

And I want to thank most of all the children and the teachers from St.

Amelia's and Prince of Peace for being here today.

You are our hope for tomorrow, and we need you to help us stamp out graffiti.

We have one of the best programs in the country, and so we have to make sure that we are diligent and go about keeping graffiti and and and marks and things that shouldn't be on buildings and on walls off of them.

And especially you boys and girls, you're really one of the keys to it to keep graffiti off our out of our neighborhoods so we can have a safe and clean city.

This is where all those colorful and creative garbage cans were created in a classroom at St.

Amelia Lakeside on Milwaukee's west side.

But this story begins a couple of months ago when the plans were taken to the city's anti-graffiti task force.

Like all children, we believe that our students deserve very special opportunities to explore an opportunity to be able to increase their self-esteem and their self-worth, and our opportunity to be involved in the spring kickoff is a wonderful chance for them to be able to do that.

We believe that the project is a positive project that promotes giving to the community.

Alderman liked the idea and the students' handi work first appeared along Lincoln Avenue on March 26th.

They presented six specially designed garbage cans to businesses in the area.

The students had previously worked with the owners to come up with ideas that related to the business.

Food for a trash can at a bakery, a party theme at a wellness center, flowers for one funeral home, candles and a church near another.

We did a survey with the Lincoln Avenue business owners and found out what some of the issues that they felt on the street were, and one of them is litter.

So by creating garbage cans that are more user-friendly, we're hoping that pedestrians will use a garbage cans instead of throwing litter on the street.

The wheels are for um destination, the colors are for happiness.

I like art because it helps me learn and makes me feel better.

I chose hearts, flowers people, and tomato because I think that it is joyful.

I feel home needs dreadful pictures because I will make the families feel better.

I like art.

It makes me happy.

Thank you.

Good job.

Very much.

Again, that good job was the result of many hours of planning at St.

Amelia Lakeside, a multi-service provider of care to children with special needs and their families.

About 15 youngsters worked on the project for several months.

The cans were provided by the city.

So this was a great partnership that we did with the um Milky Common Council, and so they were able to see that you can beautify the neighborhood by painting the garbage cans.

Like the cans on Lincoln Avenue, these additional garbage cans tell a story about the business the students have been working with.

One will stay at the school where aquariums appeal to one youngster.

Um when we think of St.

Mary's, we think of the ocean.

The ocean style we made up like orchids like fish killer worlds, and then on the other side, we may kiss a fish and stuff.

And we may see we were algae.

I like the pen in it because it is slow when I'm angry, it slows me down and it keeps me on task.

That's what I like to paint.

Our project specifically is called service learning.

And the garbage can project is one example of how we've incorporated doing something for the community and bringing many aspects into the curriculum.

There's just countless ways that it fit into art, it fit into academics, um, language arts, um, when they did their research in terms of writing things down and coming up with their lists, brainstorming with each other.

We have two students per can, and they're partnered with one business.

And they are drawing symbols on the cans that reflect the positive contributions that that business brings to the community.

This is what's going up here.

All right, gold.

Yeah, yeah.

And then this is the original thing right here.

It's been really exciting.

It's been a long process.

Um, but they've just done a wonderful job.

A lot of commitment from these students.

You already knew what these trash cans are for.

Now you know the rest of the story.

And everyone involved in Milwaukee's anti-graffiti spring kickoff hopes they'll do the job of preventing unsightly graffiti and keeping our city cleaner.

It's a topic these kids talked about long before the actual work began.

Things that have happened in their neighborhoods, things that they've seen in their neighborhoods, and the effect that they feel graffiti has on their community.

And then we looked at how our project is going to be bringing positive, is a positive contribution to the community.

And also how the arts specifically can contribute to build a better and more beautiful city.

The statue that's in front of our current location was built and placed in front of the original orphanage on the seminary grounds many, many years ago.

He's surrounded by all of the children guiding them and caring for them in a very um nurturing way.

It's a wonderful piece of history.

There are two distinct sections here.

The east half almost entirely residential.

Census data from 2000 would indicate this is a relatively elderly area.

About one third of the residents were 65 or older in 2000.

It's likely many have lived in the area for a long time.

People like Betty Reich, who's been here for 45 years.

When we moved in, there were no streets, no sidewalks.

The alley was paved, and that's about it.

And of course, there was nothing paved until you got down to Lisbon.

So you walked in mud when it was rainy.

As homes filled the vacant lots, the neighborhood grew quickly and the streets were paved, but it was still quite different than the area Betty was accustomed to.

And that was always busy and well built, and of course it was very quiet out here.

After a while, they finally put a water booster on so that our water for the evening that we would wash dishes with was more than a trickle.

It worked out pretty good.

This is a neighborhood built primarily in the 1950s.

Most of the single family homes in the St.

Amelia neighborhood, 66% are owner-occupied.

Two-thirds of the duplexes.

Homes have been a good investment, and many of them are now turning over to younger families.

The west half of the St.

Amelia neighborhood, once owned by the Archdiocese of Milwaukee, has a very different makeup from the residential streets to the east.

At the northeast corner, St.

Amelia Lakeside, a provider of care to children and families, founded in the 1850s as an orphanage.

Next door, the St.

Rose Residence for Girls, the oldest social service agency in Wisconsin also has its roots in the 1850s.

At the northwest corner, St.

Margaret Mary Parish Church, completed in 1957.

A school followed in 1959.

At the southwest corner, St.

Anne's home for the elderly.

And on the southeast corner, the largest single housing development in the neighborhood.

Villa Ducor is a seven-building, 236-unit condominium project built in the 1970s.

Ken Metzger, the president of the condo association, has lived here for 23 years.

Things really haven't changed that much.

Except for the betterment, I would think, because uh all of the shrub and the beautification is that much more grown up, and I think uh the two major reasons why I am here, and that is the location and the affordability.

And if you look around the houses here, yes, there are some duplexes over on one side and single family on the other, but they're all very well maintained.

The brick structures and uh just excellent housing, and uh in all respects, it's generally a quiet neighborhood, except we have the firehouse right down here on Lisbon Avenue and North 88th Street is one of the main routes for answering calls, but you get used to that.

But uh the general appearance is very fine.

Plus, the location I think is excellent because it's uh got your uh restaurants, you got uh shopping area, easy accessibility to uh the expressway, uh a variety of different churches.

Uh I mean, everything is in very close proximity, and and even some parks.

A lot of people don't even know that we exist.

But uh, I don't know.

In some respects, we might like to keep it that way.

Except uh the grass is green and needs to be cut all the time.

Residents within two hundred and fifty feet of the business or the nearest one hundred single family residences, whichever is greater, residents who have requested to receive notice about the business's hearing, residents who have submitted an objection to the business application.

The notice of public hearing includes information about the business that is scheduled to appear before the licenses committee, the license types that the licenses committee is considering at the hearing, the date, time, and location of the hearing, how to attend the meeting in person or virtually.

The letter also includes information on how to provide testimony at the hearing.

Review this information to ensure your testimony is relevant and permissible if you plan to testify at the hearing.

Some key points to remember.gov or call us at four one four two eight six twenty-two thirty-eight-up.

Talking.

Welcome to the Thursday, July twenty third meeting of the Public Safety and Health Committee.

It is nine oh eight, so we'll get started and have a busy agenda.

I'm chair of the committee, Alderman Scott Spiker, joined to my right by Vice Chair Aldman Bergells to his right by Alder Taylor.

We'll be joined momentarily by Alder Moore.

Alder Chambers is excused.

Yes, good morning, Mr.

Chair, members of the committee, Scott Reinbacher with the Department of Public Works.

on the south side of Howard Avenue between 13th and 20th by Wilson Park.

Second, we are proposing to install a no stopping 8 p.m.

to 7 a.m.

restriction within the cul de sac portion or the angled parking stalls in the 1600 block of South 24th Street.

Third, we are proposing to a uh eliminate a uh no parking from 7 a.m.

to 9 a.m.

restriction on the west side of 20th between Leighton and Barnard.

Uh and finally, we are proposing to install no parking in the alley bounded by Burnham, Rogers, 7th, and 8th.

Uh all of these changes were coordinated with the local Alders.

Happy to answer any questions.

Uh Alder Taylor.

Oh, so I'm just asking about the ones on Mill Road that were requested over a month ago for no parking signs.

Yes, sorry, Alder Taylor.

When I when I saw you this morning, I was like, shoot, I don't think we figured that out for Alderwoman Taylor.

Uh I will check in with the county on that.

I know we have a solution that's drafted up.

Uh we'll check in with your office to make sure you uh it's up to your standards and uh we'll get the signs out there.

ASAP.

Thank you very much.

Thanks.

And with respect to the two in my district, I'm not sure we have the right side of the street.

So the no stopping on Howard says the south side, but the north side of Howard is what's adjacent to the park.

Um let me check on that, Alderman.

I thought it was the south side.

Um, let's let's hold that one then.

Okay.

Um okay, we'll hold that one.

And again with the 13th street, this one I might be wrong about.

Um I'm not 20th Street between Leighton and Barnard on the west side.

I'll check that again.

We don't have to hold that one, but if we could revisit that one, I thought it was the east side.

So but uh the one adjacent to the park.

Positive the Wilson Park is on the north side of that street, not the south side.

No, it is on the south side.

It is on the south side.

Oh my gosh.

Well, that's gonna be one of those mornings.

Um it is on the south side when I look at it from my house, it's north.

So um okay, so we're good.

We're all solid.

Oh, Mr.

Chair.

Yeah.

I do have a question about the last one.

Uh no parking in an alley.

I thought alley parking is not uh permitted already.

Uh just overnight, Alderman.

Um you cannot park in any alley during the overnight hours.

Uh however, we are proposing to restrict parking all day in this particular alley.

Got it.

Okay, thank you.

All right, and with that, Alder Taylor would move to recommend passage and hearing no objections, so ordered.

Item two.

We're joined by Alder Moore at the table.

Welcome, Alder Moore.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

File number two six zero four zero one ordinance relating to traffic controls.

Yes, only one change to regulatory intersection controls today, and that is to install stop signs for the north and southbound directions at 89th an hour.

Uh similarly, this change was coordinated with the local alder.

Happy to answer any questions.

Any questions?

If not, Alder Brigals would move to recommend passage and hearing no objections to order.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Uh item three, file number two six zero four five zero.

Appointment of Jordan Morales to the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners by the Mayor.

If you want to kick things off, yes.

Good morning, Mr.

Chair, committee members, Leon Todd, executive director of the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission.

And it's my pleasure to introduce Jordan Morales, who Mayor Johnson has nominated uh to fill a vacancy on the fire and police commission.

If confirmed, Mr.

Morales would fill the seat that was previously uh uh held by former Commissioner Brees Spencer, whose term expired on July 17.

I'm sorry, July 13th.

Uh I believe Mr.

Morales is very well qualified to serve as uh a commissioner on the FPC board.

Uh he has a uh a different type of of uh professional background than uh the other than the commissioners that currently sit on the fire and police commission, which I believe would be very beneficial and useful to the commission, uh both in terms of his experience and the the different type of perspective uh that he would bring to the board.

He currently serves as an assistant superintendent for Mortenson Construction.

He also chairs the Milwaukee Historic Preservation Commission and serves as a structural craftsman for the Wisconsin Air National Guard, and Mr.

Morales previously served as an air traffic control watch supervisor for the U.S.

Air Force and as an air traffic controller for the U.S.

Department of Transportation.

He's also been a uh a fairly prominent voice uh on local issues, uh particularly related to public safety and reckless driving traffic control.

Uh again, that's uh another uh beneficial perspective uh and an opinion that I believe uh would benefit the fire and police commission.

So I would uh respectfully request your approval of this nomination.

And uh, Mr.

Chair, if it's all right, I will turn it over to uh to Mr.

Morales.

Uh we'll see if the mayor's office has anything.

Ms.

Danius, anything to address.

Good morning.

Uh Amber Daniels, counsel liaison for Maya Johnson.

Um I'm just here as uh going to introduce uh Mr.

Jordan Morales.

He had the opportunity to meet with um a few of you guys today, so um just here for support.

Okay, very good.

And uh did have the opportunity to meet with Mr.

Morales, appreciate the time.

Um quick question.

Ms.

Spencer, who's leaving, thank you for her service.

She was tremendous on the board.

I didn't always agree with her, but she was always very thoughtful.

Will she be staying on until the new person is seated or will there be a term her term ended on July 13th uh per uh 6250 uh terms begin and end on the second Monday in July for FPC commissioners, and then uh unlike other uh uh board members and and commissioners, Act 12 uh changed uh the statute to specifically say fire and police commissioners cannot continue past the end of their term.

So she's uh no longer on the commission.

Okay, so there'll be a bit of a gap there.

All right.

Uh Alder Bergells.

Uh well, first of all, Mr.

Morales, would you like to say a few words and then Alder Burgos has some questions for you?

Sure, thank you, Mr.

Chair, and thank you, members of the committee.

Uh my name is Jordan Morales.

Uh I grew up in Menominee Falls uh and uh moved to Milwaukee as an adult when I as soon as I graduated high school, enlisted in the Air Force as a uh air traffic controller, served four years active duty, uh deployed to the Middle East during that time.

Um after that, I was hired by the FAA as an air traffic controller and continue to serve uh in the reserves on a part-time status with the Air National Guard.

Um in 2022, I made a career change into construction management and uh cross-trained also in the Air National Guard to civil engineering.

And so now I'm uh NCO in charge of the structure shop in the Civil Engineer Squadron at the 128th, and also as uh Lee said assistant superintendent for Mortenson construction and currently working on a freighter tower project building a new hospital tower in Wawatulosa.

So with that said, my background now is in managing uh construction workforce, which is a union workforce, um dealing with union issues and efficiencies and productivities and material management and logistics.

Um it's something I'm passionate about looking into efficiently using a union workforce and um something that I spent a lot of time digging into and I've just as a hobby kind of looked into that with the police force as well.

And um and uh just trying to find ways that the residents of the city of Milwaukee can get better police services for the amount of money that we spend.

So um that's my brief introduction on on what brings me here and uh yeah, look forward to answering any questions you guys may have.

Okay, very good.

Uh we'll start with Alder Bergells.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Welcome uh to the table.

There have been recent changes from Act 12 that uh fundamentally changed how the fire and police commission can operate uh and does operate.

Uh there have been some interesting recent uh uh files in the last few weeks, few months uh on policy changes with the uh police department.

Um how what kind of perspective can you bring to the first what's your opinion on how those processes worked out?

Some were successful, some were not.

Some didn't even go to the fire and police commission.

Right.

Um and then how how do you think you can contribute and uh assist uh that process to be um more effective, more efficient?

Yeah, absolutely.

So um obviously, as you all know, Act 12 changed the dynamic of how the fire and police commission impacts police and fire policy, SOPs, etc.

Um now post Act 12.

I believe the fire and police commissioners still obviously play a role.

We can send you know communication files to the common council regarding policy changes, and I believe as is the intention uh behind the fire and police commission that the common council should heavily weigh the opinions of the fire and police commission.

Um that's my opinion.

However, I believe that commissioners need to maintain open lines of communication with the Alders.

I think that's extremely important now more than ever.

Um obviously certain bodies have taken an adversarial stance against the city of Milwaukee and in you know state politics.

Um and now more than ever it's imperative that Milwaukee uh stand together in lockstep uh against these forces or you know, uh it in favor of things that will benefit Milwaukee.

Um so it doesn't mean that we're not gonna have disagreements between common counsel and fire and police commission, but I think there should be real conversation, honest conversation, um, and openness to changing our minds.

And you know, I have certain opinions about police policies that we just might not be ready for as a city.

And so we have to take uh we have to take that into account also when when advancing our positions.

But uh my position on post-act 12 is we we've got to be talking to each other as commissioners and common council members.

So we you know, I already have Alder Women Moore's cell phone number.

I have your cell phone number, sir.

I look forward to getting uh the other two members of the committee's numbers, and uh I'd like to be in regular communication with all of you about issues related to the fire and police commission and and fire and policing issues that we can work together and stand as a united front as much as possible on the issues.

Excellent.

All right, thank you very much.

Thank you.

Alder Moore.

Uh thank you so much, uh, Mr.

Chair and um Jordan, thank you for um your ability to serve uh as well as thank you for taking time uh to connect with me and meet with me.

Uh was that last week?

Yeah.

Um so I would love for you to there was you know, during our conversation and even during the conversation that uh you all recently had um at the community forum um downtown, um, some of the things that you shared.

If you can just share a little bit with us about just some of the interest areas, there were some things that you're like, you know what, it'd be you know, these are some things that I'm passionate about or you know would love to focus on.

If you can share, you know, just a a few of those things with us so that our community knows what are you know some of the areas that you know you may have been personally impacted by, uh, but some of the things you would like to focus on um while with while your time if appointed on the commission.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Um yeah, so as I said, I grew up in Menominee Falls, and um if you called the police in Menominee Falls, one they'd respond almost immediately.

Um but uh, you know, I when I first moved to the city of Milwaukee, uh my car was stolen uh when I lived in the Silver City neighborhood.

And um it was really my first occasion to interact with the police, and so I called uh I called 911, and um they said uh we don't even send a police officer to this.

You have to go into the district to make a report.

And um you know, being a new Milwaukee, and that uh certainly surprised me.

If it if I was in Menominee Falls, they'd send the entire police force to a call like that.

Um they'd hire more officers to solve the crime, I think, if uh car was stolen in Menominee Falls.

So um so I was surprised by that, but um okay, you know, a lot of a lot of cars get stolen in the city.

So uh I'll go into the district, start making a report, and um was having friendly small talk with the desk sergeant, and um and in the course of that small talk, I asked the sergeant, you know, if he lived in the city, and um he was uh obviously very comfortable to share with me that he hated the city, that he did not want to be in the city, he he didn't live in the city and he would never live in the city.

And um and I was just surprised to have that interaction with a um police supervisor that was in a customer service facing role.

Um it was really disheartening as uh as a person who respects and appreciates the sacrifices that our officers make and and what they're asked to do every day.

I understand a level of um jadedness from the position, you know, being a military man myself.

I I can't, you know, I can't say we don't uh ever complain about stuff, but just the uh the level of um the level of it to uh to uh a resident um that you don't really know was surprising to me.

And so um then after that I moved to the Sherman Park neighborhood and have had other occasions to call to call police and um was disheartened by response times.

Um we'd see uh we had a burglary into our garage and the officers came, you know, way later um than when we called and they sent two police officers to it, and you know, they really took like a few hours there, and you know, you know there's not gonna be really any investigation done.

Um and they sent two police officers to it, and you know, they really took like a few hours there, and you know, you know there's not gonna be really any investigation done.

And so I I questioned the use of the resources on the uh on my garage burglary incident, you know, there was never any follow-up.

Um we had a video of the suspect's face and they said they'd follow up with us um to to receive that video and they never followed up, and I'm just like it'd be a waste of time to even send it to them because like I said, I I didn't feel confident, I didn't have the trust that uh that that this would be pursued as an investigation.

So um and then lastly, my house was burglarized on on Grant Boulevard, and while the officers responded pretty quickly because we were home at the time, um, and the officer was very nice, uh, very respectful.

Again, she offered some advice um that was basically like if I was you, I would move out of the city.

I'd get out of the city, get to the suburbs, like take you and your family out to the city.

And I just don't want our police department driving good families out of this city, you know.

Uh you'll never drive me out of the city.

That for for one, but two, our police officers, I want them to be the best ambassadors of this city.

When you interact with a Milwaukee City police offer officer, you should say, I want to live in this city.

Um and that's not the impression I'm getting right now in the few anecdotal customer service interactions I've had with um Milwaukee police officers.

Now, I understand that's anecdotal.

I understand this is not every police officer.

Um, but I do think it's indicative of a larger culture issue that possibly exists.

Um we know that there's been a pullback on proactive policing since uh the ACLU Collins agreement, and um, and you know, there might be a uh correlation there between how police are interacting with the public now and and that agreement.

And so um yeah, this has all driven me to want to look into a few things like resource allocation, how are we utilizing the the especially the patrol force of MPD?

How can we improve our response times to better serve the residents of the city of Milwaukee and the overall morale issue within the department?

Thank you so much um for that.

And just a um just really quick uh a few more questions.

Um how do you sort of weigh community views and input um with your own sort of personal views?

Because obviously, you know, um the fire and police commission do a really good job when there are issues um they uh have the public know about them so that they can come and testify or you know, share their experiences and perspectives.

Um one of the most recent things was around our um uh police pursuit and video policy, and so they received uh probably hundreds um of testimony and hours of testimony.

Um that's just sort of an example, but how do you sort of weigh that sort of community input?

And it might be a perspective that may be a little different from your own.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I think you have to heavily weigh uh public input on policing.

If uh, you know, ultimately it's not the the Jordan Morrell's police department, um, even though I have my opinions on things, um, you know, pursuits, facial recognition, flock cameras, etc.

I've got my own uh personal opinions, and I may think that something is the right move.

Um, but the city might not be ready for it.

You know, the people might not be ready for it, and that might be because there's a trust issue with the police department.

They might be ready if there was better trust.

Okay.

If there was if there was more um faith that officers would do the right thing or firefighters would do the right thing in this that situation.

I'd love to get to the place where the community has the type of trust where we can give you know the police department, the fire department, whatever, tools that they say they need or want to more effectively do their job.

In some cases, the community might be on board with that and we'll go with that.

In some cases, even if I think like, yeah, this would be a force multiplier to the officers and make it better for them to do their job, you know, I'd want the police to have this evidence if it was a crime committed against me.

Um in the city of Milwaukee.

You know, police derives from the Greek word polis, which is the people.

Uh we're self-governing.

And um, and so uh we have to respect that even if it might be a disagreement with what I ultimately believe.

Not that I'm not gonna push my position.

I'm I'm going to make my arguments.

But I'm going to be open to being convinced by the counterpoint and also just thinking, is this the right time?

Are the people ready for something like this?

So that's how I would handle issues that I don't necessarily disagree or agree with.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Alder Taylor.

Thank you.

So well, I think my questions were very similar to what Alder uh Moore just asked.

Is what do you see was most important to residents revolving around the issue of service?

But I am pleased to hear that you have focused on the response time proactive policing, which I think you'll you'll be pleased with what some of the things that our officers are doing, our police department is focused on.

But uh I like that.

I the other question I had was just um how are you made aware of this opening?

Uh so if you could just talk about that a little bit.

Yeah.

Um I was made aware that uh Commissioner Spencer was going to be resigning from the commission, and I had made known my interest after discussing uh with the mayor uh several issues that I've already spoken about uh to you guys.

You know, the mayor knew about my my burglary issue and you know my car being stolen and all things like that.

And I just said, look, these are some things I'd really like to dig into.

Um but I don't really have the time as a private citizen or the um, you know, I think um you might get better responsiveness uh from certain folks if you have a fire and police commissioner title than if uh I'm just Mr.

Morales from the Lower East Side now, which is where I live now.

But um so I wanted to be able to dig into these issues with um, you know, with some uh weight behind my back and the ability to um bring residence issues to a venue like the fire and police commission.

When I talk to my neighbors on on Grant Boulevard, you know, they just want better response times.

They want a police force, they don't want like no policing, they don't want like, you know, they're not talking about um stop and frisk that much, to be honest with you.

They they want when they call the police, they want the police to show up.

They want confidence that the police will solve their crimes for quality of life issues, stuff like that.

Most of my residents, most of my neighbors were not victims of like shootings or homicides and and things like that.

That's very few Milwaukeeans that are victims of these terrible crimes have to be investigated, no way around it.

We've got to dedicate resources to those violent crimes.

But most residents of the city of Milwaukee, what they want the police force for is quality of life issues, you know, illegal dumping, which you guys are gonna be talking about later today, stuff like that.

And we hate to see these crimes go by the wayside and get all to us, again, I'm gonna get more perspective as a commissioner, but to us as residents, it seems like there's no consequences to things like this.

So I just I I want to dig into stuff like that, and I think having the um title of a fire and police commissioner will assist me in that uh endeavor.

Okay.

Um but you do know there are consequences to those things.

Yes, yes, um some challenges and and trying to enforce those.

But one of the other challenges that um that we are having is uh encouraging others to apply for the police department.

So um any ideas on how you would assist in helping to encourage that.

Yeah, uh nationwide problem right now.

Almost nobody wants to become a police officer, and that's that's an issue that uh every municipality is having right now, especially municipalities like Milwaukee that are tightly strapped for cash um with regards to officer salaries.

Um yeah, I think uh I've seen a uh strategy for recruitment from the fire and police commission that looks good to me.

I've seen uh some ads already um that seem more professionally done, seem like they'll reach out to a greater audience, um, seem like you know, encouraging people to apply, put a more human face to the to the officers.

Um so that's the kind of thing that I like to see.

I would like to I think you just gotta we really have to advertise the profession to a bigger audience um than what we have typically in the past for our officers.

I mean, it's a at the end of the day, um it's a fairly well-paying profession.

I understand everybody wants to get paid more, but it's a fairly well-paying profession that you can go into with you know a high school education or some community college and have a great career and and you can make a lot of impact for the city as a Milwaukee police officer.

So um, I mean it's there's people out there who are driven to community service who just want to be part of something bigger than themselves.

And that's what drove me to join the military, and that's what join dro drives me into public service as well.

Um there's people out there who as long as you're paying their bills, they'll they'd love to do that job.

And we just gotta find them, we gotta uncover them and uh and get them on the force.

So I like the strategy that we've implemented recently on recruitment.

Um expand it more, you know, we're gonna need more funding for recruitment efforts and more ads.

But um, but I I like the strategy so far that uh the new the newly implemented strategy on recruitment.

All right, thank you so much for that.

Um thank you for your service.

Thank you.

I'm also a veteran.

Oh, yeah, that's right.

So stay um in touch.

Yes.

Uh so we do have some things that we do for veterans like for you to be involved in that.

Um, thank you.

Thank you for your answers as well.

Absolutely.

Okay.

Um before we hit the second round, I'll ask uh a couple of questions.

First of all, uh I always snag the cell phone numbers of fire and police commissioners, so I have something written down with my number, so let's make sure to exchange cells before you leave today.

Um what do you see the fire and police commissioner role though with respect to some issues such as recruiting?

How do you come up with policy ideas that might be fruitful?

Do you see yourself uh leaning on the fire and police commission apparatus uh under Director Todd?

Um, or are you doing independent research to bring ideas to the table because it's all well and good to say we need better response times, but we can't get any officers through the door.

We can't get our three classes at 65, we can't get anywhere near that.

Right.

And there's a there's not going to be an improvement, one might think in response times unless we uh have adequate staffing.

So what do you see your role as a fire and police commissioner?

Are you evaluating things being brought to the table or are you bringing yourself to the table policy ideas?

And if so, where do you get them?

Absolutely.

Um so I'll be bringing my I'll be evaluating ideas that are brought to the table, but I'm also going to be uh bringing ideas to the table and digging into all of this stuff.

I'll be uh I would I would love to get uh a working group formed with the police department, the FPC, the MPA together to put heads together and come up with strategies for several hot button issues, uh especially recruiting.

Um yeah, I'm I'm I'm gonna be uh someone who works outside of necessarily the four corners of the role, like more than just the two meetings a month or whatever it is, um, and digging into these issues and and um yeah, I'll be doing my own independent research as well, as well as evaluating issues that the that the experts are bringing to us.

Mr.

Chair, can I just uh chime in briefly?

Uh I've had a chance to uh uh speak with Mr.

Morales on on multiple occasions, uh somewhat lengthy.

Uh and I I'll just say from my conversations with him, uh I have no doubt that he's going to be an active commissioner on the board.

So I just wanted to put that uh that my two cents in there.

Thank you.

Um Yeah, and I mean I I do kind of judge fire and police commissioners when I watch those meetings.

I see who's active, who's asking really um thoughtful questions.

Um so that's that's what we're looking for.

Um, not folks to just watch a meeting take place, but to engage to ask questions that are tough that raise some uncomfortable issues and and push the discussion deeper.

Um the response about community feedback, um, you gave what might be a little bit of a politician's response, which no offense there because we're politicians over here.

Um but uh when you say, well, we want to do on the one hand, I'm a fire and police commissioner, I do a tremendous amount of research.

I have uh set of knowledge that perhaps the community at large does not have.

And so shouldn't I trust my own judgment in that?

On the other hand, the winds of the committee room might be if you watch the fire and police commission, it is not the whole city that shows up to those meetings.

I mean, even though it's a night meeting and you think, oh, well, everybody, you know, it's after work, you know, it's still a select group that shows up regularly.

Absolutely.

Um what do you do as far as making the diff tough decisions in the room if you feel strongly about an issue, even if the room's against you, even if you don't have maybe an alder person's access to constituents on a daily basis telling you that things are maybe different out there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you you guys run into this all the time at your hearings.

You get, you know, an issue, and a lot of times the people who are in favor of the issue won't show up because you know, people aren't excited about when something when they're in favor of it.

But all the people who are against the issue show up.

And so you only get that perspective.

Uh I've seen it every time I've watched the budget hearings here, you get I I think one time it was like, you know, 20 people showed up to it, and 100 percent of the comments were to defund the police, right?

Well, we can't we know obviously that that is not the city's perspective.

That's a select group of the city's perspective, and you know, not that it should be discounted or thrown away, but you have to take that under advisement as the whole.

Like we've we've got to look at the entire city.

So, no, I'm not gonna necessarily be uh, you know, back down off of an issue or swayed by just what goes on uh in public comment that night.

Uh I've got you know a fairly good pulse on the news media and kind of what's what the what the vibe is for city residents' opinions on things.

Um, but I'd like to expand the aperture of public sentiment by making myself very available to the media to uh to residents, uh know that they can contact me about issues and try and get a better pulse on the issues from the city, because as you stated, there's a uh very regular group that shows to the shows up to the fire and police commission, and I love that engagement, and they make their they make their voice known, and they should be recognized for that, and they should, you know, that's a voice that needs to be heard.

Um but uh to your point, Alderman Spiker, that's not the whole city's uh city's um sentiment.

So uh yeah, we take we take the committee room, public comment under advisement and listen to that respectfully.

Um, but ultimately I have to go with what I think is best for the city, what the city is ready for, and what I believe the public actually believes about the issue, uh not just you know the five or six people who are showing up to the public hearing uh and a final question, and then uh kick it over to Alder Burgellis uh for a second uh round of questions.

Uh with respect to so you came to my attention through your thoughtful comments relating to reckless driving um years ago, back with Murphy and the Alderman Murphy and the reckless driving carjacking task force.

Um there's uh been discussion about police pursuit policies.

We'll sort of treat this like Supreme Court and not ask you how you would vote on a particular issue.

But do you think uh your experience and uh with dealing with the issue of tackling the very difficult issue of reckless driving has influenced your um opinions about how strongly we should restrict or not restrict the police pursuit policies.

Uh my personal opinion on the pursuit policy now, and I'm open to being changed on it through data and good arguments uh on on the commission, and uh obviously input from the police department as well as activists who have a different opinion on the issue, is that it would be extremely demoralizing for me as a city resident to see someone commit a crime or um or do something, and all they have to do to you know get away with that crime is flee from the police and them not being able to pursue.

Uh that'd be extremely demoralizing for me as someone who you know tries to follow the law as much as I can, you know.

I mean, you I renew my license plates every year, I try and follow the speed limit and you know, put my blinker on and stuff like that, and um and you know, it would just be uh I think it's just demoralizes residents, and that's why you know the city of Milwaukee used to have a much more restrictive pursuit policy back in the day, and then residents I believe use their voice and said, like, now this is getting a little out of hand, we gotta have some pursuit.

How I think there is um a good case to be made that pursuits are extremely dangerous and that a pursuit can actually make the issue more dangerous.

Now, a lot of times the pursuits are initiated because of a person who's reckless driving already, which is obviously in and of itself dangerous.

I believe it's an imminent danger to the public when someone's recklessly driving, and it's something that needs to be stopped because I don't want to get smoked with my family as I'm crossing through an intersection by a reckless driver.

I'd rather them, you know, be attempted to be pulled over or stopped.

I think our current pursuit policy puts residents in a tough position because obviously the policy as it stands now, police are not allowed to intervene or use force to bring the pursuit to an end.

So there's no pit maneuver allowed, there's no roadblocks allowed, they're allowed to use spike strips.

Um but you know, those those have varying levels of success.

Um how the pursuits work now is you chase them around for 20 miles in a circle in the city going 90 miles an hour, and maybe the suspect will wreck into an innocent person's car.

Maybe they wreck into a building or a light pole, they get out, they they bail and they run, or um they run out of gas.

And so that's how pursuits are terminated now, resulting in the arrest of the suspect.

Otherwise the officers have to call off the pursuit if it gets too risky.

There's other jurisdictions within Milwaukee County that are allowed to use things like the pit maneuver to stop vehicles.

Um I've heard reports that officers will actually route the suspects into those jurisdictions so those jurisdictions can take the lead and bring those, bring those um bring those chases to uh to a quick end.

Now, I don't believe we should be having Hollywood style pursuits where cars are being rammed by the police and and all this crazy stuff in in congested city streets.

Um, but I believe there are applications in an urban policing environment where you can use pit maneuver, um roadblocks, things like that.

You know, not every street is congested all the time in the city of Milwaukee, and some of them are wide open, and I'd rather have uh an officer attempt a pit maneuver on an empty street at 2 a.m.

than have a pursuit go all around the city for three hours, you know, 50 miles or whatever, all at high speeds until it hits someone eventually.

So uh right now I think we almost have the worst of both worlds with the pursuit policy.

We have a pursuit policy where we chase the suspect until the suspect decides to give up or makes a mistake where they where they wreck, which puts obviously residents in danger, but also we don't give the police officers the discretion to um to end the pursuit with force.

Um I don't know if that's necessarily a change that the city's ready for to implement pit maneuvers and stuff like that.

I I understand that.

Um but I'd like to look into that a little bit more and see is there good best practices for urban police departments to implement uh forcible stops of pursuits and strategies to implement that so that we can bring pursuits to an end immediately uh when an officer has the opportunity to do so versus just watch you know chasing them around the city for forever until the suspect makes a mistake.

So I've asked enough questions for now.

So uh Alderberg Ellis.

Thank you very much.

Um just a couple quick questions, and I appreciate the chase pursuit policy because I can take that one off my list.

Um do you make do you commit to reading the agenda prior to all the meetings?

Yes, I do.

I read the Turner's report uh on on the Fire and Police Commission, saw that that was uh an issue probably with the previous commissioners.

I don't know so much about today's commissioners, but um absolutely I'll be reading the agenda prior to the meetings and uh and I'll have formed opinions on the issues.

Um do flock cameras give uh MPD tools and resources to help solve crimes faster.

Simply yes.

All right.

Um has Collins run its course.

Um I don't necessarily I personally wish that we didn't have uh the restrictions of the Collins Agreement of the reporting requirements of the Collins Agreement.

I believe the thrust of the Collins Agreement is essentially constitutional policing.

The Supreme Court uh it's basically the Supreme Court's ruling on the on the Collins Agreement or on constitutional policing stop and frisk.

I believe there should still be reporting requirements.

I would like to see the officers or the MPA work with MPD to maybe create a less ham-fisted report.

Um so to say it run it's run its course, and maybe I misspoke a little bit uh earlier when I first started answering the question that I I wouldn't like to see the reporting.

I still want to see the reporting.

I would like to see a more efficient report that the officers can have some buy-in into.

Um because I, you know, if I was stopped on, stopped by an MPD officer on reasonable suspicion, I think I would like a report on that.

You know, I I think I'd like to be able to reference back to that.

And if if I felt I was mistreated to be able to uh make a complaint and there'd be some sort of a report on that.

I think um the complaints about the reports are you know on how time consuming they are, maybe a little bit overstated.

I've seen some of the reports and it it they are a little clunky.

Um, but I believe if an officer has reasonable suspicion, they should be able to generate that report somewhat quickly because they should already kind of know why they stopped the individual.

Um but I'm open to uh streamlining the report uh within the framework of the Collins Agreement, collaborating with the union to give them some buy-in into it, understanding that to my knowledge, there's no plan to get rid of the Collins Agreement.

It's the framework we have to work with, and I'll leave it to the politicians, I guess, to decide you know whether or not to challenge the Collins Agreement and get it tossed out.

But I'm committed to working within the Collins Agreement as it stands now.

Appreciate that.

Um does MPD need to follow every ordinance in the city of Milwaukee, yes.

Should all law should all law enforcement follow ordinances in the city of Milwaukee?

Yes.

All right.

Should MPD enforce that when other law enforcement agencies don't?

Yes.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Uh other questions from committee members.

Um I will ask about the incident that was reported in the media the when you were an air air traffic controller about bringing the loaded weapon, leaving it in the bathroom.

Obviously, that was a lapse in judgment.

You communicated as much in our private conversation.

Um what can you say to folks who worry that that lapse in judgments might be indicative of a larger issue?

Um can you just want to give you the opportunity to speak to that?

Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you.

Yeah, I uh I was uh super appreciative to Mr.

O'Donnell for publishing one of my most embarrassing moments uh for everyone to read.

But uh in the club.

Yeah.

So um yeah.

Uh that's okay though.

Um because it caused me to reflect on, you know, on the incident and where I am now and actually how you know it worked out for me and my family's good, and now I'm in in a in a great spot where I've got better hours, better schedule, more time with my family, better work-life balance, et cetera.

So um thankful in the end that it happened.

But um I would say to folks like, you know, who among us would want to be judged by our single most embarrassing or irresponsible moment that we've had in our lives.

I wouldn't, I would ask for folks to look at my overall you know, life and and um community service record uh to judge whether or not um you know my judgment or you know, responsibility is there.

Um I think you know, I wouldn't point to that incident as a great example of my judgment, but I would point to that incident as a great example of my integrity.

Um, after I realized what had happened, I called my wife and I told her, you know, I think I'm in some trouble here.

This this could be bad for me.

And uh she said, you know, Jordan, just be honest.

And I was like, that's easy.

If we're honest, we don't have to make up a story, we don't have to remember anything.

We just be honest.

And so I remember coming down out of the tower that day, going out to the parking lot where the sheriff's deputies were, and uh they approached me and said, Hey, um, are you Jordan Morales?

I said, Yeah, and they said, was this your gun?

I said, it was.

And uh, what do we need to do?

They said, Well, would you mind coming and uh just answering some questions at the substation, giving us a statement?

I went, answered their questions, told them everything, honestly.

Uh I believe the sheriff's report indicates as much that I was honest, forthcoming, and cooperative immediately.

Um threw myself at the mercy of the of the sheriff's department to do whatever they wanted to do, threw myself at the mercy of the FAA to do whatever they wanted to do, and I bore consequences.

I bore real consequences.

I lost uh, you know, I lost my air traffic control career uh through that.

Now, again, I'm thankful for that looking back because now I'm in a much better field.

Um, but uh yeah, I had to make a career change based on that.

And um I believe that it's a indication that I'll be accountable.

I'll be re I'll be um honest and I'll be someone that the public can trust to do the right thing, even when I'm exposed when it could have personal consequences to me.

So uh I'll leave it at that.

And uh last question relating to that is uh so you would be called on as a fire and police commissioner to be uh at disciplinary healing hearings with respect to officers, firefighters uh and one question is how would your experience having gone through what you did where you were potentially subject to criminal penalties?

Um how would that if at all influence uh your approach to those do you think it has colored in any way your approach to those sorts of hearings?

Yeah.

I think it would influence it in the sense that I know what it's like to be on the other side of the table.

You know, I know what it's like to be subject to work discipline um to you know be you know investigated for stuff like that.

And um I think I would be sympathetic with any person coming before me and um you know I would I would still though, uh even so I would take the facts of the each individual case.

You know, I got what I deserved, I believe, from the FAA.

I don't think they treated me unfairly.

I don't.

Uh there was an option to be more merciful to me and uh in that incident.

They chose not to not to use that, but I wasn't unfairly treated.

Um so I would take the whole officer or firefighters record into account.

I would take their, you know, um any positive accolades they've received into account, and then of course the seriousness of the offense and what the offense was was it the first time offense?

Is it a recurring issue?

Um and make a judgment based on the facts of the case, obviously taking into consideration what the police administration has recommended.

And um, yeah, I would still have to fairly judge the issue.

I I don't think I could use my experience to let anyone get a uh pass from policies that um that are in place and that we're all expected to abide by.

But at the same time, I think I'd be able to look at things with grace and and work within the frameworks of policy and table of penalties, etc.

Um, to give give everybody um grace when it's so merited.

So any other questions?

Alder Taylor?

Yes.

Uh so looking at the situation that you just um talked about, um, and you talked about judgment and sometimes maybe not using great judgment in situations.

Um part of the uh fire and police commission, you'll be looking at um SOPs and changes that might need to be made.

And so there's a situation uh recently where a victim uh felt re-victimized, um sexual assault victim, re-victimized by the officer that was asking questions, and the excuse may have been um that maybe that officer was new.

So um just looking at that, is that a viable excuse in your opinion uh for maybe not handling that victim well?

Right.

I I won't speak to the specific uh case, but just generally um sexual assault victims are a special case that I believe officers need to be exceptionally well prepared to respond to.

There should be no question from the victim that the police department is on their side to uh receive their statement, to believe the basic, you know, their basic uh complaint and um handle that with care.

Now I'm not saying everybody who accuses somebody else is correct, but I'm just saying a police officer I've I've personally been involved with an issue not with a Milwaukee police officer, but where a uh a police officer responded pretty um terribly to a sexual assault allegation.

And uh it makes you sick.

So I I believe sexual assault victims need to be handled a special way.

I think uh you know, a buzzer should be going off in an officer's head when they when they need to be uh responding to uh a complaint from a sexual assault victim.

So generally, no, I do not believe that it's an acceptable excuse to say that the officer is new.

If an officer is so new, then they should not be the ones responding to that very sensitive situation.

Maybe they need some more time with a training officer to watch how they do it.

Um because the worst thing you want to do is put someone through that trauma again.

Uh I understand that.

And no, that would not be uh an acceptable excuse in my opinion.

Again, not knowing anything of the facts of that specific case, um, I would have to see all the facts of that case to comment on that one specifically, but just as a general statement with sexual assault victims.

Thank you so much for your answer.

Yes.

All right.

Are there any other questions?

If not, do we have a motion?

I so move.

All right.

Alder Moore moves to recommend confirmation.

Are there any objections?

If not, then confirmation is recommended.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Item four, file number two six zero four nine six, an ordinance relating to penalties and liability for illegal dumping.

This is sponsored by Alder Jackson.

Alder Jackson, thank you for your patience while we went through um lengthy confirmation questioning.

Uh would you like to kick things off?

Oh, sure.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

So um I have to give Alderman Pratt her props for um this came about doing our research for the original illegal dumping file.

Would you know that if I threw a bag of garbage into the river, my file would only be up to 200.

Did you know if I pushed any garbage car or anything into the lake, my file would only be up to $500.

So we took a deep look in it.

I'm gonna thank my uh thank Max Tricky for helping us through this and um my assistant, Nick Savage, for digging down the tool and running down.

So um he has the specifics, but we'll be increasing fines and also levying the city to go after their funds if the city has to go retrieve anything out of the water.

Okay.

Uh uh Alder Pratt is on the big board.

Did you have anything you'd like to say?

Alder Pratt?

If not, we can wait for the I just want to uh thank Alderman Jackson for his leadership on this.

Um I know everyone thinks I'm the illegal dumpings are I'm not um but it is something that really affects my district heavily, especially when it comes to tires.

I know that that was the huge issue in my district, but um just to thank uh Alderman Jackson and uh Max and Nick uh for working on this and and looking into this, it was um a loophole and and uh uh blind side uh a blind spot for us.

So finding that has been uh great and another way that we can use enforcement to uh stop illegal dumping.

All right, thank you.

Very good.

LRB, would you have anything you want to add?

Toss up the numbers.

Some of the numbers.

Um a couple of the the uh specifics here um that were mentioned, increasing uh the penalties uh for uh dumping on um let's say uh oh I I apologize, Max Dricky, legislative reference bureau.

Um the uh increasing the the statutory penalties on uh for dumping uh on public or private property on land, um increasing it to a uh a class N uh fine or or forfeiture um that would uh increase the penalty uh to between 500 and 5,000 dollars, uh depending on this the severity of of the dumping there.

And then for uh the waterway dumping um going from a uh what our code currently uh says is a finer forfeiture of uh between um I believe five excuse me uh yeah, I mean depending on the on the specific statute between five dollars and uh fifty dollars to uh between uh two thousand and uh uh ten thousand dollars, which would be the um upper limit uh allowable under state law.

Um there are a couple of other things to flag.

Uh the uh ordinance makes clear that the as uh Alderman Jackson says uh that uh the city um will pursue cost recovery um for any um cost to the city for uh cleanup on um uh uh private excuse me on public property um and the waterways um particularly uh and and especially something that's new here, any sort of ongoing monitoring um i if if there was a you know someone was tipping hazardous substances that might you know necessitate ongoing monitoring, water quality uh uh uh assessment, things like that.

Um the the city could go after the violator um and potentially the the violator's um employer if it was directed uh by uh and and uh larger organization um for those costs.

And then uh the uh final thing, as I as I mentioned, uh that sort of responsible uh corporate officer liability.

So if you um uh you know are are hauling garbage for a living, whether that's waste tires, whether you're disposing um of waste for your for your job, your uh light industrial job or something like that, and you are directed to dispose or get rid of trash, um and your employer knows that you're likely to you know bring that to the public park or a private lot or uh dump that at the water's edge that those corporate officers uh who are responsible for giving that direction um, you know, they are also liable um under these provisions.

So any any technical questions on the drafting, I'm happy to answer.

Okay.

Mr.

Chair.

Uh Alder Moore.

Um thank you so much.

Uh thank you all so much for your work um in regards um to this.

I know that we also received a letter um in the file uh um just sort of outlining how you know landlords may be impacted.

I wanted to ask a little bit because a lot of this depends on enforcement, right?

Catching, you know, these folks are in the dead of night um doing these sorts of acts.

Um in the dead of daylight.

Uh so my question is really centered around enforcement, and I don't know if there's anybody from DNS on the board, but um it says here that uh chief of police, commissioner of neighborhood services, commissioner of health, um, commissioner of public works, harbor master, um, or their agent designes shall enforce this sub chapter.

Um typically, and again, I don't know if you all can answer this question, but typically um who is responsible for sort of doing it's like police work, right?

It's like doing the legwork finding out who should be fined or feed.

Um that I think that's a a big part of my question, because that's the only way that we can, you know, appropriately um fine or regulate this matter is it's finding, you know, and that's always a challenging part is finding who who does it.

Okay.

Good morning, uh Bike Mansmania Neighborhood Services.

Thank you, Mike.

Um so we have uh special enforcement inspectors that investigate reports of illegal dumping.

We also work closely with uh the Malacca Police Department uh to try and investigate these incidences when they occur throughout the community.

And good morning, Alders, Evan Goikey City Attorney, just to build off of part of your question, I believe, uh in order for a citation to be valid, we actually have to name the violator that citation um couldn't be successfully prosecuted.

So to your point, um it is hard at times to catch folks.

This is a long-standing enforcement dialogue that this committee and others have had.

How do we catch folks running red lights?

How do we catch folks illegal uh illegally dumping?

Department of Neighborhood Services has been creative and uh you know embarking on new strategies and you know, certainly the plea has gone out uh to residents and from residents to you know identify these folks and um but we do need that.

We we do have to kind of catch who it is, whether that's on video or first person uh eye witness that could testify and identify uh the individual, but we do have to know who they are.

Do we typically um and Mike, this question might go to you?

Do we typically fine um an owner if someone private property, someone illegally dumps on their private property, do we typically fine them or are they typically responsible for the cleanup costs associated with that illegal dumping?

So if we if we were unable to identify the individual that dumped on that property, the property owner would be responsible for the cleanup costs.

We don't cite them.

You don't penalize them.

Okay.

It's just the cost of the cleanup that gets passed on to that owner.

Got it.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Alder Taylor.

Uh just looking looking over the document, it says um any person, persons, or corporation is listed in here.

Are we holding corporations to the same standard that we would a person as far as penalty?

So are they paying the same amount or are we would the penalty go up if it's the corporation dumping tires, per se?

So uh it's a simple answer to your question, Alder Woman is no.

Um the there is not an additional penalty if the violator is an individual uh who is acting alone versus someone who has been directed by um their their supervisor, um, if that makes sense.

Now, if you are dumping uh at the direction of your supervisor, what this ordinance is saying is that your supervisor uh is is liable for the same penalties that you would be uh liable for.

Does that make sense?

Yes.

Okay.

Uh and then there is uh under penalties, it says um $2,000 for each offense together with cost of uh cost of prosecution or shall be imprisoned in the house of corrections.

I mean is that I I believe that's the standard language that is a potential penalty if an individual is cited uh found guilty of the forfeiture and uh fails to pay, that is not a policy that has been in effect in for for many years.

We are not incarcerating individuals for their failure to pay their forfeitures.

Okay.

But I would I would defer to LRB, but I I believe that's standard language that comes on any kind of uh penalty language that we add.

It is, yes.

But you're saying it may not be in practice.

It is not in practice.

Correct.

Okay.

Last time uni court put somebody in jail for failure to pay a fine was in and Mr.

Chair, just briefly, uh, one of the reasons I came to the table, we are reviewing this file.

Obviously, we have eight days before council meets.

Um there I just wanted to flag for folks and and have uh talked with the sponsor and the sponsor's office and understand the intent.

Um in state law, the public trust doctrine protects navigable waterways and holds them open to the public, and and and that's a long-standing uh tradition in the state of Wisconsin.

We are reviewing certain state statutes that provide enforcement jurisdiction by state law to the Department of Natural Resources of those navigable waterways.

I'm not here at the table today to say that that this file is not legal or or enforceable.

I did want to come forward and just tell the committee and tell the sponsor and be on record that the review is is complicated and there may be a notification next week that we need additional time to sort out that kind of web of enforcement that has been created at state law.

So I'm I'm just I'm kind of yellow lighting that there are complexities over enforcement in navigable waterways based on a patchwork of state statutes.

We're working on that.

Hopefully, we'll have our review on time and it's smooth sailing, but you know, it's something that I wanted to flag for the committee.

Okay, thank you.

Uh other questions from committee members.

Uh yeah, some of these fine numbers were ridiculously low, five dollars, uh ten dollars.

So um I don't know.

I think Mr.

Savage, you flagged some of these as as maybe being from way back in the day.

So appreciate the work of Team Jackson all around on this.

Um if there are no other questions, do we have a motion?

Move adoption.

Uh Alderman Bergellis would move to recommend passage and here.

Mr.

Chair.

Yes.

Uh my apologies, just a technical question.

Yeah.

Um, so if we don't have the information by council, um, what is typically then the procedural just it it moves forward, or is there an option to well if the city attorney doesn't sign off on legal legality and enforceability, then that's automatic, but we can also hold it.

Hold it.

Okay.

Okay.

Perfect.

Thank you.

Yep.

So we're making a recommendation, and I assume it would under the understanding that the city attorney will sort things out.

Um so Alder Bergells has moved to recommend passage and hearing no objections, so ordered.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Uh okay.

Item five, one of the sponsors wants to still hold that for now.

Yeah, he hasn't given it.

Okay.

So uh item five, file number two four one five four-seven.

Alder Brighels would move to hold to the college chair, hopefully for a later point in the meeting.

Um then we'll move on to item six, file number two six zero two one nine.

Oh you ready?

Oh, never mind.

Okay.

Then Alderberg Elis intemperately suggested we hold it to the college chair now, suggests that we uh move to reconsider and hearing no objections so ordered.

So before us is item five, file number two four one and five four seven, substitute ordinance relating to short-term rentals.

This is sponsored by Alder Cogs, Alder Chambers, and uh President Perez.

The sponsor, uh lead sponsor would like to say a few words to kick it off.

Thank you, uh chair and committee for hearing this uh file today.

Uh members may recall that we've been working on short-term rental legislation.

Many members have been um for for a few years now.

Uh and given the ever-changing legal landscape uh in the state as to what is allowable, what isn't.

Um we've gone down a lot of roads.

Uh and we've even had other files come before you asking the departments, DNS and DCD in particular, to weigh in on some suggestions and best practices uh for us.

And ultimately, those legal uh challenges, although some cases have been decided, there are still many more being handled.

With this uh piece of legislation, myself, Artaman Perez and Ottoman Chambers have worked um really hard to try to figure out the majority of things that we can do internally that would least likely um have the opportunity to be caught up in in any legal um issues, things that we can do departmentally, things that we can do to increase the transparency with the ownership and operation of short-term rentals to address at least some of the concerns, not all.

This is merely just one step um of residents and neighbor neighbors that we all serve.

Um so again, this is just the first step.

Um there will be um others to come, but we primarily wanted to focus on things that we have the ability uh to change and improve.

Uh that was our intention and and we hope to have a robust discussion here today about it.

Very good.

President Perez, would you like to say a few more?

Thank you, Mr.

Chair Committee members.

I'd uh like to thank uh the woman cogs and chambers for their co-sponsorship, and uh I know that Alder Woman Dmitrievich has chimed in through emails on specific issues, and uh we want to be very conscious of the rest of the council moving forward.

Um short-term rentals, Airbnbs, etc.

have I think have different meanings in different districts, different parts of the city.

Uh I know for um the 12th district uh priority for us is to know what operators are out there so that if there are any issues, questions, concerns, accountability, we know exactly who to go to for what, and uh I think that this is like all the women cog said, a step, our first step in the direction of helping manage and identify Airbnbs and to figure out um how we better communicate uh with one another and having uh robust registry.

The other part of this process is that I think we have as an agent of the state, which I think you hear from our experts later, we have several things on the books that we need to connect uh to this ordinance in order for us to have clarity and accountability through through current state statute that would help us.

And um I know that I have uh both a file in on uh zoning and potentially licensing these as we move forward, and as uh we flush this out and move forward uh if and when needed, we will definitely be going in that direction to continue the steps as uh we connect with the community and the stakeholders in our neighborhoods that have something to say about uh the process and the management of Airbnbs in the community.

Uh my entire district has zero single family zoning, and part of the accountability is is that in these in these stretches, these blocks, these areas where we do have single family zoning, uh, that we want to be able to manage what the commercial environment looks like in a single family neighborhood.

And understanding who our operators are and what they're doing is important to that process and appreciate your time and look forward to the discussion today.

Okay, very good.

Uh does anybody want to give an overview of some of the the changes?

I know some of them are remarked upon by the RPA in their letter, which came to us late about what the major changes are.

I don't know if the LRB wants to summarize that for us.

Morning.

Good morning, Mr.

Chair.

Uh members of the committee.

Uh Christopher Hillard, legislative reference bureau.

So the major changes, it can really be broken down into sort of two main categories.

There are things we are directing ourselves to do, and then there is a new requirement for owners and managers.

So the things we are directing ourselves to do is uh incident reporting.

So any um citations that are issued for activity occurring at the property arising from its use of short-term rental.

Um, they will then be reported by the city to whatever platforms are hosting that property.

Uh the next one is a notice requirement, um, which provides that um notice has to be sent out to the uh the office of the um whichever aldermanic district it is that the new um proposed Airbnb is going to be, or excuse me, uh short-term rental is going to be in.

Um, and then also to any residences within 250 feet of where the proposed um short-term rental would be.

And then finally, the last thing is the um management requirements.

Um this requires that um uh there's a uh posting one, so the owner or agent of any short-term rental um must uh post and maintain official placards um that would be um issued by the Department of Neighborhood Services with contact information on the outside of the building.

Um and then finally um they uh the owner or agent must be a resident of the city of Milwaukee.

And those are the changes.

Okay, thank you for that summary.

Um so uh obvious questions here are gonna be is it legal and can DNS enforce it?

So uh I don't know if DNS or the city attorney's office wants to ask that or wait till we ask questions and then take it as they may.

Mr.

Chair, just broadly in 2017, the state legislature passed a law that I think could generously be described as underwhelming and confusing, that uh gives some landscape of regulatory authority to municipalities.

It's also it's a preemption statute, frankly.

Um not surprising communities across the state have tried a whole patchwork of different regulatory schemes on short-term rentals.

Um have been challenged.

We've at times tracked the number of cases filed.

Um there's probably somewhere between six to a dozen pending circuit court cases throughout the state challenging various different local government regulations on short-term rentals.

What there are two that we have tracked much closer as they're further along or more mature in their litigation.

One was a challenge to the City of Nina's short-term regulatory scheme that was overturned by the Court of Appeals, and the other is a challenge to the town of Summit uh in Waukeshaw County, which is uh which was also overturned by the Court of Appeals.

The state Supreme Court has accepted that case.

The parties are briefing it.

Uh that means that they're still arguing in writing and that there hasn't been oral argument.

We don't have, I can't provide to you a timeline of when the court may make its ruling.

Um all of that is to say the landscape of the powers of local government is um unsettled in Wisconsin, and so we are here in part to advise levels of risk tolerance that policymakers have.

It's less of a clear you can do this and you can't do that, and more of a gray scale where we know there are some provisions that may be more likely to generate a challenge and harder to defend than others.

Uh, but we're certainly here and have been working with the sponsors and other alders on this issue to try to figure something out because we certainly understand the community has um weighed in to you all and publicly that that you know some of these properties can pose a real quality of life challenge uh to the neighbors, um, especially if we don't know who they are or if they're not responsive to to repeat problems.

So it it it it is a scenario in which I've I'm I'm here and um joined by ACA Travis Gresham, who's uh been waiting into the details and can handle some of the detailed questions better than I can that the committee members may have.

I'll summarize it is unsettled and uncertain, and we would just provide guidance over where we think the city would be on the firmest ground.

Um that said, uh it's hard for us to say, you know, black and white.

Um there are provisions here that we think are far more defensible than others, and we can weigh in that um in a question and answer.

Okay, very good.

Uh Commissioner, would you like to say anything before we kick it over to questions?

Yes, hi, good morning.

Um Hezamila Rojovega, commissioner with the Department of Neighborhood Services.

Um thank you for having us here today.

I just wanted to just give an overall of what DNS have been doing for the last um few years.

If you remember in 2024, we did a communication file on short-term rentals and what we were doing from the enforcement side.

Um far at that moment, and just to give you a note, um, in 2022, we only have 25 registered license um doing what it is to re-rooming housing.

As you know, we are the agent, the delegated agent for the state um to actually issue those licenses.

Um since then, and for pre private conversations that we had, uh, we were became aware of a software that actually could um summarize all the listings open in the Milwaukee area.

Uh, we did an effort and acquired the software as a pilot just to understand where were the actual numbers for the city of Milwaukee.

In 2024, the rumors were that we have around 1,300 to 1,600 um listants, open listings.

That said, when we actually acquired the software, we did a cleanup and uh acquired the listings, that number dropped to 700 to 800.

Um there might be some factors such as like special events at that time.

We have RNC, we have like very a lot of really large national um events in the city.

Um it could also be related that there were repetitive listings.

Um there also include listings of hotels, motels, and you name it.

So the reality is that so far we have a 750 um listings, open listings in Milwaukee.

With that in mind, what we did it's like we started it with advisory orders first.

Hey, uh, we noticed that you have an active listing.

So far, we don't have um any evidence that you have that licensing that is required to operate as a two-re-rooming house.

And we will say that as today, we have um currently listed 329 um two-re-rooming house lists.

So that's been an increase from the 25 that we have in 2022.

We have a remainder of 422 that are right now.

The first step was an advisory order, 30 days.

You don't comply, now we're sending you an order, and right now we are in the reviews of those orders.

We're giving them 30 days to comply.

Um, those that haven't been complied after the 30 days in the first bash that we did, we have opened 17 orders, uh, with some of them having re-inspection fees as well.

Um what are we doing right now?

We're reviewing those records twice a week to identify and process any new records that are coming into the listings.

Uh we're also reviewing complaints that are received um through um our uh lines just to match it to see if we have an existent licensing.

If not, then we proceed with orders.

And we have uh new unlicensed properties that are identifying to the software.

We just created it some new complaints and sending those as advisory orders.

Um we do have a complete lease.

Our um efforts or our next steps or desires is to share that with all the common council members.

That way you do have an idea of where are the locations of uh of those um short-term rentals and providing enough data that could quantify what is going to be the next steps for the city in implementing or enforcing more for them.

I think that's pretty much the summary.

If you have any questions, I think might be now the time for that.

Uh Alder or President Press.

Uh yeah, and I just I appreciate the report and just for the listening public, I want to reiterate that what the commissioner is exercising is what's already on the books as a state agent.

That is I want people to know that I want them to think that now this is starting because of any legislation.

Uh I appreciate the commissioner listening to the council members and exercising I think what's always been there.

She's taken the leadership to do that.

So I just want to be clear that this is exactly um what's been on the books, and it's in we appreciate the departments working with us to to move forward in that direction that really uh strengthened the list that we we that's out there or reported to be out there, and that uh we want to continue to get people in compliance currently.

Mr.

Chair.

Uh Elder Cox.

Just for a hundred percent clarity, right now the state requires already that short-term rentals are supposed to register with the municipality.

And I think what the commissioner was speaking to is our efforts already to ensure that those who are on these platforms um are actually um registering with us, which is what the state requires.

Um I think just for absolute clarity, um, the state already requires them to be registered.

Okay.

And as you heard the numbers as to how many are and aren't that I think further pushes us to want to do some of the stuff in this legislation just to get more compliance um and more transparency.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um I have one question, I guess I think it's for the city attorney's office.

Maybe it's for DNS, but it ultimately lead to a question for the sponsors, which is um so with you're required to be licensed uh a tourist rooming house license part of this requires that within 30 days of receipt um written notice will be provided to the alder's office and all residences within 250 feet of for which properties applied for a tourist rooming house license, right?

That's part of the legislation.

Is the granting of this license basically kind of like our granting of cigarette license where we're kind of ministerial role where we kind of have to grant it, you can't just because what I worry is 250 feet of neighbors being really mad that a rooming house is coming in and now you've just told them it's coming in, but you can't do anything about it.

So it's a little bit more robust than the cigarette license.

Okay, cigarette license, as we all have become aware, um is by route.

I mean, you apply for it and you get it.

Um this does have some compliance mechanisms.

They're primarily sanitary, in so much as having hot water, having clean towels, uh, maintaining a you know regimen, um, effectively assuring the public that this location is not a hazard.

So, you know, the the staircase can bear your weight.

Um you know, I think DNS can speak to the specifics as to the enforcement mechanisms there.

Um but generally speaking, um it is it's a low threshold, but there is more of a threshold there.

It's not immediate.

But a resident can't say, hey, Alder, you should stop this because I've had a short-term rental come in in the past, or my relatives had one and it was a disaster.

So I really don't want this, they will be notified, but we won't have necessarily the power to correct.

And that that's the limitation here is that the state license is much less discretionary.

Um the state statute that was mentioned, the right to rent statute um does identify that a municipal license could be created.

So there could be a parallel track for both a state license, the tourist rooming housing license, and then a municipal license.

The idea and the method through which uh municipal license is created is itself being challenged.

Um so that's part of the gray area is whether or not we can go forth with a municipal license at all, or whether or not it should be um kind of crafted as a zoning ordinance.

Um that's in debate.

Um there are again cases that uh go both ways, but there is a a certain trend um that is leaning towards the realtors association or the the um landowners, uh landlords rather, and uh for the unencumbered use of the property.

So um and yeah, and this isn't necessarily a criticism.

I want the neighbors to know what's happening as well, and I guess we'll have to work out uh an explanation sort of like we do with C BRFs where we can tell you they're coming in, but we've been sued and lost in the past, we can't, you know, necessarily stop it.

So that it's just something each Aldermanic office will have to learn to accommodate.

So anyway, that's that's my question.

Alder Moore, you had a question.

Um yes, I had a question for the commissioner.

Um when you all are reinspecting, so this the 30 days notices um provided, uh come back in 30 days or so.

Um the rein- what does the reinspection look like?

Somebody's knocking at the door, they're viewing something, talk to me a little bit.

So it's just so I understand how that works.

Most of it is administrative.

It's just looking at the records, you don't have already it started in an application, then we go and like go directly and to the sites, but it's more at the administrative site of reviewing and checking um cross-reference records to see at that minimum that have started.

Okay.

And so if it has not, there's a fee applied, we give them another 30 days.

Correct.

Okay, and we come to that 30 days again, we check, there's nothing, we give them another fee.

Correct.

And then we just continue to do that until we get into the point of I don't know if we have done anything yet to take in them to court.

It's almost like the same process that we have for enforcement in any other um situations for orders.

Our fees gradient as far as do the fees go up every time there's a reins reinspection.

Yeah, so it'd be two times the initial fee uh for subsequent inspections.

So if it's 250 the first time, it's five hundred for subsequent inspections if you're still non-compliant.

Um do we have data on sort of where we are in that reinspection process as you know what after 30 days, this percent usually complies after 60 days, you know, we get more compliance.

I'm just trying to understand if this process works.

Um so that, you know, just for it's I think it's just helpful for us if you know, hey, can we up the fee or whatever?

But I'm just trying to understand if that sort of process works.

I think that's a great question.

We definitely have the data capacity to make those kind of reports.

And I was actually mentioning before we join here that um by the end of the month, you common council members are gonna be receiving our newsletter from DNS and part of that report, we're gonna be sharing a report just in short-term rentals, so we can start all kind of like investigating or knowing the data that we have recollected so far.

So I can definitely try to add that um request as well.

And the other quick question that I have is if someone live next door to someone that um has a short-term rental and you know, I don't know, they find they reach out to DNS, hey, this is a short-term rental, um, and you know, we say, oh, they're not registered, is there a mechanism to report that property?

Or no?

Yes, that's the complaint base.

Yeah, so it would be handled the same way another violation would um a different section of our team would handle the inspection and enforcement of that.

It goes to our environmental team since it's um the same as hotel motel, they also enforce that, same habitability standards.

But yeah, same enforcement inspection process.

Perfect.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Alderberg Ellis.

Thank you very much.

And uh I my first question was about you know, is this an administrative approval?

Um that neighborhood notification wanted to ask the sponsors what's the what's the intent or the purpose if there's no neighborhood objection that could uh thwart uh a license or um give neighbors a voice in the approval or disapproval of a new property right from the city, then what's the purpose of the neighborhood notification?

Um in my district, um both uh Brewers Hill neighborhood and Howia Park neighborhood have had uh major incidences that were violent in nature, um involved guns and in one case someone getting shot.

And we had uh neighborhood meetings with DNS um as well as NPD.

Um and one of the things that I've heard in those meetings and in conversations with residents was um how is so many Airbnbs that don't even know where all of them are until you know an incident happens or or things of that nature.

Um so the goal of so we began to think about what other ways that we notify folks for other things.

Um and because we already do it for certain licenses for certain other things, the idea of well, they have to register because the state requires that, so we know when they register, um those who comply um when they register, why can't we just do what we would do in other cases and just notify um notify the neighbors about that this uh registration has occurred?

So it it really for me um came from residents just really wanted to know was in their neighborhood.

Um and this is a simple way that at least for those who comply, um we would be able to notify them.

That was the intention.

Absolutely.

And the requirement, the new requirement in this file uh that requires posting of contact information.

Is that supposed to be like near the mailbox or the doorbell?

Um so that neighbors can go figure out or you know, oh sorry, I I f I forgot uh the alder woman's uh letter from three years ago, but they're making noise tonight.

Go check the phone number and call the owner of the property.

That too was a request of neighbors.

Um we just say prominent because you know, different uh properties are built different, so to say where but um but but that's that's why that was a request of neighbors.

So is the intent to eventually have a proper municipal license for Airbnbs?

It's in the works.

Well how we're we're gonna we're gonna examine the zoning, whether it's a special use and or if licensing or doing both is is the route to go.

And we hope in time it'll be greater clarity legally um on how to do that and what's allowable and what's not.

And even if it's not, we may as a council have to decide what our appetite is for a legal challenge.

Um but yeah, our intention is to I'll uh concur that I I had no idea that I uh I received complaints uh that there is a problem Airbnb in my district, uh just a handful, I guess, but uh when there is a complaint, it it's uh uh arduous process because the noise complaint on Saturday night won't happen again.

It's a different person.

Uh DNS doesn't get out there in time.

Uh so I I applaud um your leadership on uh regulating this.

Um I would ask uh commissioner if you would send us a list of whatever is already licensed and what is what you've uncovered may not uh have a license that may need one uh to so two different separate reports.

Um I was uh starting an email to send to you to ask for that, but I appreciate that you were volunteering it right after that.

Uh is there a requirement anywhere in state law or any uh municipal ordinances that we've passed that would require the publishing of the municipal license number in any advertisement.

So that it would be very clear when you go to the Airbnb website if a um and other municipalities do require something like this, but um is has Milwaukee considered doing that.

So the um the license that exists currently again is a state license that's issued by the municipality as state agent.

Um what we've attempted to do to get compliance and part of that compliance mechanism was reaching out to um these individual networks or platforms and having uh screen come up that says please enter your license number, and then if they don't have that uh route them to us to get that license.

Um so there is at least that.

Um I say at least because again, that's the state license that is not necessarily discretionary um and also doesn't have the compliance teeth that a municipally managed license would um again it's it's kind of as much as we can do currently with what is provided.

So we have again tried to approach these companies.

Um and I think for their image and for their sake as well, it's it's it's relevant, right?

Uh habitability of the spaces that they advertise on their platforms is is material to their image and you know uh the renters that they're trying to entice.

Um so these is there any penalty for uh or any thought to add a punitive penalty for these um uh ride share, home share, car share um network companies that allow an unlicensed agent to use their platform.

That's where we get into um who wrote the law and who it serves.

Um this was not a law written um to incentivize or really allow for um or at least the interpretation by the courts currently um has been to the benefit of the property owner.

Um I guess the focus has not been on liability or the concerns of these network companies.

Um so um I I don't think so.

We we certainly can look into your question, Alderman Burgelis.

It's a theme that has come up in recent other files.

Alderman Jackson's file on illegal dumping had corporate liability attached to it.

Um I know the debate over scooter companies and and it's a it is a tricky legal question about whether we could attach liability to the host site for the participants' non-compliance with our ordinance.

We certainly will look into that.

And and I think what ACA Gresham was um identifying, that was not through an ordinance requiring that type of compliance or collaboration from the platforms, but not yet.

Not yet, but a step in the right direction, and I think that um the bottom line and the kind of the economics of or market forces have played out such that compliance is important to them.

Uh and I think that's a really uh important provision in the file that reports up the food chain incidents that happen uh at the street level here in Milwaukee, and and you know, the file does not attach corporate liability, but certainly it creates uh notice and a bully pulpit that we are doing what we can now to put the platform host companies on notice that their participant property is um causing disruption in the city of Milwaukee, and I think there's great value to that.

Uh whether that's a cause of action in circuit court or not, it is a tool that I think will have a positive impact.

Excellent.

Thank you very much.

Mr.

Chair?

Yes, Alder Cox.

It helps build the case that they knew or should have known about the problematic places if and when we pass this legislation.

And also I'll say something I've pushed for and will continue to push for is I believe the platform.

The simplest thing would be because it is state law that they have to register.

Um to your point, Audimand Brigadas, would be that you just can't unload if you don't have the corresponding registration number.

Um it's one thing to just put a type in ADC, right?

Or actually verify that the license is uh issued and valid.

Yeah.

If you are in the state of Wisconsin, you just can't do it if you don't have to register.

That would be the simplest thing um to do, and a thing that I think we're advocating with the platforms to do.

But that I think that's a continuous conversation and a continuous fight.

But I'm in agreement with you that technology is so great now that you could just simply um simply do that.

I'm assuming after today they'll be lobbying us at all.

Wonderful.

Um in that spirit, I'll I'll ask Mr.

Chair unanimous consent to be added as co-sponsor.

Okay.

Mr.

Chair, you know, it as long as we're on that.

I I'd ask the commissioner Fray now if that state um certification is even listed on LMS when you pull up a property.

Yes.

Okay.

It's good to know.

Thank you.

Uh Elder Taylor, then Aldermore.

Thank you.

Um so I um I was thinking about those placards that you guys had mentioned um, putting those outside of um short-term rentals such as Airbnbs.

It's a business, and we don't see those on daycares or any other business where you have your contact information on the outside of a of a business.

So I'm not quite sure that that would be well appropriate if we're not gonna require that of all businesses to do that.

The other thing is the um platform reporting.

Do we have the manpower to report to all the various platforms that are out there for short-term rentals?

Because there are many.

Uh, and so that might require quite a bit of manpower.

And then um my last question, uh, and then you guys can answer, I guess, in that order if you have an answer, but um, it requires here, it says in addition, the ordinance requires that owner or agent of any short-term rental uh within the city of Milwaukee be a resident within the city be a resident.

Um can we legally require that when you're looking at investors of all that's investors invest all over that's where they don't just invest we'll probably defer to a conversation in a closed session about that.

Um so just to kind of foretell there that is a legal gray area.

Let's say okay.

It's a regulatory scheme that other jurisdictions have advanced and sometimes have been met with a challenge, and is one that we would like to work with the sponsors and the council on to uh understand and appreciate the intent.

Um I I think you know part of the goal is to make sure that someone that holds their property out has someone in responsive, you know, the area that can come and deal with the leaky bathtub or the problems that might arise with the problem renter, and we do have those kind of geographic provisions elsewhere.

Um exactly what the final mechanics are, we certainly will work with all of you on, but um just that is something that has been done in other places and and I think kind of comes from this place of wanting to have a responsive party that can come and manage the property if things go sideways.

And that's exactly where I was going because you have management companies that are hired to take care of those things.

Um so requiring that the owner reside in that city um just doesn't seem like a a real viable thing to do considering that and/or yeah, the file is uh is it has an or and includes a uh agent language, which I think is envisioning the property management type role okay all right and expand the LLCs.

We want to make sure that's covered appropriately.

Okay, thank you.

And I guess picking up on that, so will you have by counsel an opinion about whether this is legal and enforceable or is this one of those things like with the previous file that we might have to hold off on?

And not to speak for the city attorney's office, but I think they would agree that is legally not settled.

Um and it probably won't be by um council.

But you know, we truly want to move uh something forward because we've been talking about this for so long.

Um so and I understand the concern um about point four.

Um what in talking to the co-sponsor, something we are willing to do is to um take uh point four of the legislation and and hold that part.

Um and we may look at inclusion with zoning or a different way to bring it forward uh where um or at a time maybe when we can be more legally certain um of its um enforceability.

Um so we are we do um have an amendment that takes away point four um to be able to uh move forward.

Okay.

You have it ready for today.

Yep.

Okay.

I can guarantee that the Wisconsin State Supreme Court will not issue its opinion on the matter by next Friday.

I will if there is one other adjustment that you should also be aware of um on this one, just for clarification, I have to contain talks with both DNS and the city department for point two where it talks about incident reporting.

On the original version, it just says citation.

This version also says orders um or police reports that are issued because we know that uh police reports don't always ish don't always end in a citation, but should be um should be sent for notification purposes as well.

So it's broadening what's sent to it broadens the definition and the Department of Neighborhood Services does not issue a citation for the initial complaint.

Right.

They may eventually do that, but I think this would capture a broader uh set of incidents that happen at the property.

Yep.

So members understand that in it go ahead.

You didn't get we didn't get in the answer to that of whether or not she they would be able to even do that reporting because that's a lot of reporting.

It's that requires a lot of man hours.

Yes, um, as part of um of the evaluation of the proposal, we do think like there's gonna be some sort of like fiscal um impact um through the proposal.

We would do be needing to think about mailing and maintaining the software as well because this was just a pilot for us to just try and see where we were.

Um and also we would require a full-time um assistant program assistant um for solely dedicated it to short-term rentals.

Okay, thank you.

But the the fee is three hundred dollars uh for the initial inspection, a hundred dollars a year, seven hundred, a hundred dollars a year that's seventy thousand ish.

Yes.

So maybe the fee needs to be a little bit more to cover a salary.

Based on the numbers so far, very, very just ballparkes.

We are in this we were asking about mailing expenses around for 500 kind of licenses around six six K based on the densities of the neighborhoods.

Um the software itself, we've been looking at other platforms that might be a little bit more economical because at this point the inversion was around 80,000 for this software itself, and then the full time is around roughly 60 to 70k.

But yes, I uh fully agreed that when we were breaking the numbers, it almost could be recouped by the fees, but this is just a number that we're gonna be exploring more and have more details in the next weeks.

So you're so you're going to let's pause one second.

We're doing something kind of naughty.

We're discussing a sub that's not before us.

So uh Alderman Burgells would move that the sub be before us that proposal to amend it, and now we're discussing that.

So Alder Burgels.

Um so you're you're going to reevaluate the fees to make sure that they're in line with actual costs because we can recover actual costs with the initial or the subsequent license fee.

We will be evaluating how we're gonna be able to get through it.

Okay, so members are clear what the sub does, it removes four, which relates to the owner agent being uh resident Milwaukee, and then it changes broadens the incident reporting under section two to include a citation order or police report, understanding that DNS doesn't initially issue a citation or anything, uh they might issue an order and the police might issue a report without issuing a citation.

So Mr.

Chair.

Uh Alder Moore.

Just to I'm sorry, Elder Taylor, we're done with your questions.

Okay.

Okay, yeah, we can come back.

Uh Alder Moore.

Um, just a couple quick questions.

Um registration um from the state, is that something that happens yearly?

Yes, one um first-time application fee and then renewals fees in a yearly base.

Perfect.

And then um I think this goes back to sort of the maybe the incident reporting in reference to like problematic properties, like if um a particular property continues to have calls or you know, police reports, etc.

within three months, six months, whatever it is, um is there any way that can impact their yearly registration, or is there anything that we can do to impact that registration not moving forward?

So again, as acting we're we're excuse me, I'm sorry.

No um as we're acting as state agents, that agency agreement is between the city and the Department of Health and Human Services, or I think in this case, uh the Department of Agriculture Trade and Consumer Protection.

Um what we have to do in that agreement is codify certain uh requirements and laws, and then what uh DATCAP has to do is review those laws and and those codifications.

What we do is adopt the entire administrative chapter that governs the tourist rooming housing.

Um and in part of that chapter, and I believe in our ordinances, there are um penalties for noncompliance.

Um there are also identified instances that could be seen as kind of dovetailing with or akin to our own separate nuisance designation or other intersection by police.

So if you violate something, there could be cause for us to deny again as state agent that license.

As far as how that would proceed, um, we haven't explored that.

Um so there would be um I think the need to review both the agency agreement that we have and then also our operational statutes in that case.

Um it is again kind of separate and apart from our municipal authority, so we're kind of operating under state authority.

The state might kick it back to us and say, Well, you deal with it.

They may also take it on themselves and say review it without our discretion.

Um so that's kind of the issue when we act as agent for the state.

Um there is a piece to your question directly that could theoretically kick the license based on that kind of nuisance adjacent or police reporting problem.

Um we have not explored that, we have not enforced based on that.

Um so I want to I I do want to caution that it's a currently untested, um, but it is a part of our agreement with D DATCAP.

Or I think DHHS includes the DATCAP one.

But um in any case, it is included.

It is something we have codified, it's in ordinance already.

Um but again, I I it is there um whether or not it's you know fully fleshed out, and we have not received any appeal nor have we received any citation in regard to that or um gone through any denial process based on that.

Got it, thank you.

And I know that obviously police does you know reporting when called to a property, um particularly for DNS, we will also have the mechanism to you know, if police isn't called for whatever reason, but a resident, a neighbor, whatnot, is making a complaint, we have the ability to track that information.

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely.

Perfect, thank you.

And please add me as a co-sponsor as well.

Thank you.

Okay, let the record reflect.

Um I just want to make sure that um in looking at this proposed substitute that the issue of the placards doesn't appear to be in here, and the issue of requiring the owner to reside in the city doesn't appear to be in here.

So am I right in assuming that then those things are.

Those are all out of point four.

Okay, thank you.

Which was removed.

All right.

It is our intention though, to figure out how we can bring that back.

Yeah.

Well so the placarding was also legally okay.

Question something you want to discuss more.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Um other questions, comments.

Um, and I don't need to call um Mr.

Chairman, do you have a question for you?

Yeah, just one second, MPD to the table, but a short-term rental is uh unit that could be nuisanced just like a single family home.

So if you have three or more incidents within a month or some more severe incidents, you know, gunfire and such in a year, um shootings, uh that my understanding is that would be subject to the nuisance code just like any other place.

Correct, Mr.

Chair, and I was gonna chime in to uh Alder Moore's question.

The state license does not immunize the property owner from other interventions and tools that the city has.

So 80 10 could be applied, uh a nuisance designation, uh circuit court action should there be chronic non-compliance with the building code, all the there isn't any you know protection that this designation gives them that uh different property right, you know.

And uh the 80 10 applies to the property owner, it's not so if you have three different tenants that are renters, it doesn't matter.

You're still the property owner.

Sorry, Alder Cox.

Oh, I was just gonna ask because I know it's uh a resident here.

Um is this open for public testimony or no?

Um not unless you're buying us lunch.

Really long attorney we have to get that.

I do I do on the record wanna say thank you to to the residents who have um not only met with me, but I'm sure many of us have met with and talked to and received emails and calls from um residents with concern um and suggestions about um um Airbnbs that have brought us to this point, and I just again want to reinforce that this is just the first step um that we are continuing to look at the legal ways um that we can continue to ensure stability in our neighborhoods.

And I just again want to reinforce that this is just the first step um that we are continuing to look at the legal ways um that we can continue to ensure stability in our neighborhoods.

Yep, very good.

And Mr.

Chair, I just I want to not only take a second to thank all the folks who have chimed in to to ask for assistance, but I have some very solid Airbnb operators, especially on this point that have done an awesome job and they're willing to come to the table and figure out how this is a fair and inclusive process.

So I want to thank everyone involved.

Okay.

Very good.

Any other questions, comments?

Mr.

Chair.

Yeah.

I I I think my final comment would be, you know, as we're asking DNS to do more and more and more.

Um, that we also think about, you know, just how we advocate um for staffing structure so that they can because these are things that are so important, you know, whether it's the illegal dumping or um, you know, uh in reference to you know, this case, Airbnbs, just I want us to be conscious animals.

Um I want us to be conscious of what we're continuing to put on DNS, and you know, it I guess goes also back to policing, right?

You know, people think about numbers um to support some of the things that we need to get done.

Um I really want us as a council to be able to advocate uh that they have the necessary staffing so that we can keep our community safe so our residents can live in peace and you know that they just have the people power to continue to do the necessary work um that we need done.

So I I just wanna you know push my colleagues.

In all our conversations, how do we beef it up?

How do we pay for it?

Yes, how we pay for it.

Yes, thank you.

Thank you so much.

And three of us are on finance, so there'll be a discussion.

You can lobby the mayor now.

And then if you don't like what he does, you can put in a budget amendment.

So um okay.

Uh I would also like to be added as a co-sponsor.

Thank you for the discussion today.

Um any other questions or comments?

Yeah.

If not, uh Alder Taylor would move to recommend passage and hearing no objection.

So thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

Item six.

Uh file number two six zero two one nine.

Substitute ordinance relating to penalties for the sale of alcohol, tobacco, and cannabinoid products to minors.

This is sponsored by Alder Bergellis and friends.

Alder Bergellis, would you like to kick things off?

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

This is a comprehensive update to uh our city ordinances to change our penalties for selling selling these uh products to children to state maximum penalties.

Uh it also revises a few definitions regarding new marketplace products.

Uh but this is also establishes a consistent pattern for repeat violations and fine escalations.

Okay.

Anything to add, LRB?

Uh no, the only other thing that I would uh point out is uh it creates uh a new section in the code, uh section 106 uh dash 30.5-1, uh which would prohibit uh the straw purchase of uh cigarettes and uh tobacco and other nicotine products uh for minors, which strangely didn't exist in the Yeah, that was really strange.

I didn't know that didn't exist.

So straw purchase of uh interesting.

Uh Alder Taylor.

I'd just like to be added as a co-sponsor on this.

Okay, very good.

Um question I guess I had is I saw the fines went up, so not less than 200 changes to 500 if the person has committed a previous violation, but it changes the period from within 12 months to 30 months.

So on the one hand you're upping the fine, but on the other hand, um I guess well, no, that's doing the same thing because you're saying 30 month look back period is now you know gone two and a half times.

Correct.

Right, correct.

Um to state maximum uh allowances.

Okay.

And uh so this would be enforced by whom MPD is part of the license investigation unit, or who would who would do this?

Correct.

So uh LIU or frankly, any district is able to issue a citation for a sale to underage, but uh LIU specifically has a task force that sends underage people and tests licensed uh businesses for uh tobacco and alcohol uh and THC purchases.

And just for my own edification, would the penalty attached to the person who makes the illegal sale, the business owner of that establishment?

I believe under state law it attaches the person who makes the sale.

Okay.

Um because one question I guess, you know, I always bring up the littering case where we change the fine to 500 bucks, and I'm not sure if we're writing more tickets, we can somebody can tell me that at some point.

Um at some point, if the fine gets too great, maybe the officers are less likely to write it.

If it's on the commercial business owner, I can understand why that, if it's at the person working for minimum wage behind the counter.

I don't know.

It's a that's a very good point, uh, Mr.

Chair.

I I would have to defer to the city attorney on this question.

I'm I'm just not an expert uh and the the enforcement and who this folks are.

Yeah.

Okay.

Any other questions, comments?

Passage.

Oh, yeah, I just want to be sure because I think that it's important to make sure that it's um that the person that does the sale is the person that is actually going to receive the fine.

Did we did you just say that?

Yes.

Uh you said you'd want the city attorney to weigh in.

I'm sorry.

All I I would say is the the uh changes that this ordinance would uh make to the code doesn't change who's being assigned uh assigned the the uh the the penalty if that makes sense.

Um you know to be honest, I'm I'm not the expert on who this if I can answer directly the the fine goes to the person who make who makes the transaction.

Um certainly any of these transactions that happen in a licensed premises would be on the PA 33 on the license renewal application uh for um any punitive measures that the license committee would want to do or thinks is appropriate uh when the business is up for license renewal.

Thank you.

Yep, and just having served on licenses sometimes quite often somebody gets fired for making uh an estate a mistake involving minors.

Not always, but some not uncommonly.

Um other questions, comments?

If not, uh Alder Burgells has moved to recommend passage.

Are there any objections?

Then so ordered.

Thank you.

Um item seven, file number two six zero three two four communication from the Milwaukee Police Department relating to the school resource officer program in the 25-26 school year.

This has been sponsored by Alder Moore.

Alder Moore.

Thank you so much.

Um, Mr.

Chair.

Um I wanted to just um have the team provide an opportunity to just tell us where we are.

Um, this opportunity or um the service for officers going back into the school.

It is so important that our public um just you know we're transparent.

How are things going?

Um, what are there any challenges?

You know, how are um what are the wins?

That sort of thing.

So I wanted to invite the team back and thank you all so much um for being willing to come in um and just share uh where we are, especially now that we have um some time under our hands and we can talk about you know things that have worked and things that might not have worked.

Um so I'll uh kick it over to the team when appropriate.

Okay, very good.

Um would you like to introduce yourselves at the table?

Well, sitting at the table, Steve Johnson, assistant chief, uh police department.

And Captain Vanetta Norberg of CRD Community Resource Division, which holds the CART team, our crisis assessment response team, and also um our bigger portion, the school resource officers.

Okay.

Um Chief of Staff Huff, would you like to introduce yourself?

Yes, Chief of Staff Huff.

And I understand there's a presentation.

Would you like to preface it with anything or how would you all like to proceed?

Well, I'll just give you a short presentation on what we've done and um how long we've been doing this.

We um have a full year now since about September 2nd, 2025, until the end of the school year, uh, which ran to about June 15th, and then after that, the week after was graduation, so we went kind of far into the month of June of when school officially ended.

Um and I'll just start with our first slide here.

Um says we have 33 officers right now.

We have 32.

Um, one of them have gone on to be promoted and is working at a dish different district.

Um we basically deploy with um at least 25 officers based on the level of support needed um within the school year.

We cover out of the 12 schools that we're in, about 9,000 students total.

Um PS has about 180 days out of the school year, and sometimes we do try to meet the needs of those charter of private schools as well.

They may not be in or they may have more days.

Promote a safe environment, learning environment for everyone, serve as mentors, and give students guidance, and also attempt to host prevention programs about bullying drugs, digital safety when we're allowed to and when we can.

Some of those events, like they were requested by one of the principals to attend prom as the principal felt like they were really a part of the school community, and it just would not be a gathering without those officers.

Again, our deployment is 25 minimum, which is uh per the contract.

During student attendance attendance days, two officers are assigned per school normally.

Um, three officers, the extra officer will more than likely be deployed at a school where they need a little bit more attention or safety presence from the officers, or there's heightened security concerns at the school.

Um we have additional officers if they are working rovers, they attempt to answer calls all over the cities from schools.

Um PS has about 150 schools.

That doesn't include any charter or private, but we try to get to those calls as well and service schools during school hours.

Um, when officers are not assigned to SRO duties, that would be more of our early power.

After about four, um they are spread amongst the districts in the city to take calls for service.

So here is just an analysis of what has happened during those years, or I should say statistics that we keep.

Um of our findings after speaking with our OMAP, there were 689 SR roll dispatch calls.

Um those aren't calls that I guess go to the districts are within the districts, but the calls that SROs will have answered.

Um 46% of those are trouble with juveniles, trouble with subjects within the school, um, disorderly conduct, that's our largest arrest category.

And 31 arrests have been made at the schools or the 12 schools which we are assigned to right now.

At the bottom, you can see the 12 schools that we are current, or we were in last school semester that could change based on us looking at calls for service and speaking with the director of security of MPS.

So to answer some of the questions, why do students get citations or arrest?

Um we've had a total of about 70 citations, which is less than one percent of the total body, 9,000 students that we reach Monday through Friday over a school year.

Um citations are normally a targeted response.

It's not something that we do widespread, it's not something that the school administrators ask for every day, all day for every situation.

Um, when the principals normally will request the citation, it's not the officer who makes the decision to give out a citation, it comes from the school administration or whoever is in charge at that moment.

Normally it's um after your more egregious fights, property damages, um, trespassing, and I think the principals do make the decision based on maintaining the school safety and enforcing accountability when they feel like they needed to take it to a step other than just their normal school discipline.

Um a greater portion of the arrests bec occur because of outside crimes.

It's not something that has occurred within the school.

Um it could be related to warrants that a school child could have, arm robbery, reckless endangering safety, um, take and drive without owner's consent.

Um, sometimes it's battery to school officials or weapons charges.

It's not many of them are don't occur because of an incident that happened within the school.

But it involves a student.

It involves the student that more than likely attends the school.

Yep.

Okay.

Just some examples of citation and arrest examples that someone might receive.

A student jumped over the lunch table, dragged the student on the ground, and ripped four of her braids out.

That is pretty egregious to a principal of the school to say we need something more than our school discipline.

One, a student attempted to bribe a teacher with a thousand dollars for an address of another student who had been a target of a crime outside of school hours.

Another student jumped a desk in the office, damaging property, including pulling a secured metal cabinet off of the wall.

So that student had to be arrested and taken from the school property, you know, for the safety of others.

And this, like I said, is a small like portion of a student threatened to slap a teacher in the face and told the teacher they were gonna wait for them after school.

So that is again pretty egregious.

A student punched a teacher in the face.

But those are just some of it.

A student picked up a cleaning bucket and threw bleach in another student's eyes.

So just these are egregious to us.

It's not your your school fight and it's over with, take you to the principal office.

One I could recall at the beginning, um, there was a large school fight at tech.

And as an officer was um cuffing another student, another student came up to punch that student in the face, and he had to be OC'd.

Other officers came in.

Another one, which has been one of our challenging schools, um, Vincent, they had a fight, several fights of it was about 80 students over three hours of time, like within the schools where 43 students were suspended, some was handled by central office.

And um another one, a student physically fought with um staff, security struggle with the student for about two minutes, and then the officer entered intervened, and the student ended up falling in the doorway as they were trying to rush back into the school.

But um those are moments where the SROs, they kind of stand back until security asks them to intervene into the situation.

SROs allow them to try to handle what they need and then step in when asked, or when they're summoned through radio, then they will come.

Um another one of uh security took a student, disruptive student into a room.

They were in there for about five minutes, and then security runs out and they're like, Oh, she hit me in the head with a bag of books.

Can you guys step in?

This is what, but these are the instances where force has to be, you know, used, or when there's outsiders, outside students that come in and refuse to leave the school property.

So, like I said, we've had about six total that have been reported to us.

Um, some of the challenges that we've come across, uh role clarity, expectations, um, what administrators want us to do within the school.

Sometimes we have to keep a watchful eye or eye and my supervisors as to things that officers shouldn't be doing versus what the principals are asking them to do.

So we have to have a sit down and have an understanding with them.

This is what we're here for, this is what we can do, this is what we do not want to necessarily be involved in.

So just a clear having clear definitions of duties, um, safety concerns, um, limited enforcement.

Um, other challenges is answering other school calls for service, um, not just those 12 schools.

So, you know, we want to try to give the best service that we can as SROs, seeing that they are certified and trained to handle certain things, but it's just been a challenge for us.

Um schools needing SRO presence, they're asking, but although we may not be assigned for their school, so we will try to give them a small snippet of okay.

Well, we can come walk around a little bit, see if we can service you, but based on the staffing needs, we may not be able to do that.

Um call disposition expectations where if a normal patrol responds, the school may be looking for um something else or some other type of service, asking where is my SRO?

Sorry, you don't you don't have one assigned to you.

They specifically, I don't know what has been passed around, but feel like they should have an SRO to respond to their call rather than someone from regular patrol.

Um another challenge is the um frequent altercations in the schools or outbreaks of other disturbances when sho schools probably should call a locker hold, you know.

Um so and we've had some discussions with those schools, like maybe you should you should do it here because the officers SROs will not do it.

Um we had a very in-depth conversation with Vincent after their series of two large fights, which we came together collaborate correct uh, I'm sorry, collaborated, saying maybe you should do this versus this because we cannot keep throwing resources, or at one point I had five officers there because of the outbreak of fights, and we needed the district assistance as well because so we came together with their security.

Perhaps you should move them here.

You need to get your administrator and also your teachers more involved with the students rather than having us to be your first, I guess, course of action when all these you know fights break out or keeping the students where they need to be.

Um we've um recently as a school year um has gone on.

We started trying to reach out for partnerships.

One is Bader Philanthropies, they reached out to us, they wanted to do something.

We um had a meeting and took a listing of what they thought student needs would be, and the SROs were able to give that information, student needs or what type of things that wants that could be not just school supplies, it could be financial literacy classes, it could be clothing, hygiene products, just some of those things that they can give, you know, through us to the students.

Another one is Polermos Pizza, one of our SROs reached out to Palermos Pizza, and they were able to supply us with certificates and pizza to give to students of the month.

One of the officers within the schools was like, Well, principal, you don't have enough for the students to do.

How about we do this for the students when they do something good?

Can we come in and give them pizza parties and give them something for student of the month or being positive or doing good in school?

Um we want to make sure to get through the presentation so that we can have time for questions.

Okay.

Um so if you can just highlight some of the future.

I got you.

I appreciate that.

Um, one I just want to uh speak of at uh Milwaukee King, Rufus King, the officers actually um helped the ladies start a flag football team, and they became the coaches.

Um those are just some of the extra things we do within the schools.

Students also um, I'm sorry, SROs, they do a lot of referrals.

Um they're not just there, whether it's uh referring a student to a local job fair or the violence free zone.

Uh I just I do want to get to um the student surveys.

We did do a student survey during the year just so we could see how we were doing.

Um some of the responses were um shift from enforcement focused roles to trauma informed support.

Um SROs are doing well.

Um they would like for SROs to stop more fights and address safety concerns and prevent more conflict.

Um some of the students said they want SROs to help keep the kids in class and also engage with them more and have more assemblies and be highly visible in those crowded areas such as lunch.

Um really quick, how did you all conduct the survey?

Um we basically compile the form, and if the students come into the office, can you fill out a form?

Well, we did ask the administration is this okay for us to give out something like this, and then some of the admin would give the surveys out and then return them back to us.

You know how many were collected?

I don't know how, but there were some collected from every school.

Okay, every school.

Um at the end of the year, we also do a survey or feedback from the administrators of how we're doing.

Um, and they ask that officers would be more intentional engagement during lunch periods and connect with the students during lunch playing games.

Those were some of the things, but they do agree that there is a need for the student resource officers.

Um officers also participate in events.

Um we've held four parent academies during the year, which is uh I guess an open forum to welcome parents, um, guardians and students.

Um we conducted four, we didn't get a large crowd, even though we announced, but we did put that out there in case there were questions regarding how the program w works.

And um just to kind of end it right now, we are participating in Operation Summer Guardian, which I don't know if everyone's familiar with, but just engagement portion in those hot zones of the city.

Um officers enjoy doing that.

And um some of our goals basically is to increase positive student engagement and also we want to increase classroom presentations, but that is dependent upon the school if they will allow us to do so.

Some schools are receptive and some are not.

But that's uh all I have, or where we're at this year, um, and what we'll be starting up soon, I believe school starts around September 2nd of this year.

Okay, very good.

And um yeah, I would encourage members to look at the student survey and the administrative survey results.

Those are interesting to get feedback from both the students and the administration on what's what's working and what challenges remain.

Uh Alder Moore, you're the sponsor.

Did you want to start off with any questions?

Just a few quick questions.

Um, in regards to um, you know, it was mentioned around effective student discipline.

What would you consider?

Because it was a lack of um effective school um excuse me, effective student discipline.

What would you all consider because so that it's not just solely dependent on SROs to create a culture of discipline in the school in your um expertise or opinion, what would you say that looks like?

Well, they do have a matrix.

MPS has a matrix of discipline, which is on their website, which they use the number system one through four.

Um it's more so going by the matrix that they have created, which for would be something more egregious.

We just try to ask that those fit into that egregiousness rather than just asking or so that we don't have to go back and forth with no, I don't think you should give a citation here.

Yes, I want a citation here, but I I think it's more so them just going by their matrix what they have because that's what we want to do.

We don't want to overstep in those discipline, just do what it says on their chart.

That would be very helpful to us.

So go ahead.

And I would say one of those uh key components of that aspect with the discipline is knowing when to call us in versus their security staff.

Yeah.

So not um preemptively just getting our SROs involved in some maybe a discipline issue.

We're there for more of the uh the criminal aspect of things.

But when it's discipline, you deal with your uh security staff when it's that go uh d uh start evolving in uh the criminal aspect, then get my SROs involved, and then we deal with that aspect.

So it's just having that fine line of when to get the right people involved in some of these incidents.

Would you all um in regards to like the the safety or security staff?

Um, you know, do you all feel that the schools were equipped with adequate safety staff?

And maybe it depends from school.

And we immediately discuss those issues of course when we have that with um the director.

So when there are times that it's not adequately staffed or they may be placed in the wrong area, we do discuss and MPS will come to the table.

What can we do to make this better?

Yeah, and I do just want to interject and say we have a robust partnership and ongoing communication with MPS leadership at all times.

Sure.

So when there are some of these issues where we're like, hey, we see a concern here, it is with a willing partner to work with us.

And um, if there are some gaps where there's security is we work through those on a regular basis.

Um, I think the we didn't meetings are weekly.

Yeah, yeah.

Every Wednesday, uh the security director is at our building.

So any issues or concerns that uh that may be brought up, we can have those uh real-time meetings um, especially on a weekly basis.

So got it.

And lastly, um it was mentioned um that okay, we service 156 schools, so it's not just these 25 officers in you know, X number of, you know, these 25 schools or whatever it is.

Um, those same, just for clarity, those same officers are supporting um all the school schools throughout the city.

Well, we attempt to, we have uh an overage.

There are the 25 that are in the school, but usually it's about five to six, depending on you know, staffing that we have.

Sure, we will attempt to service those all over the city or grab those calls up.

Like dispatch will hold those calls for those roving SROs to go all over the city and attempt to get those in if we can't, district will step in to take those calls.

Got it.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Alder Taylor.

Um actually I think you may have answered almost all of these questions I have.

One was the relationship building with the administrators, but I think Heather just answered that.

Um so yeah, that one's good, and and maybe developing a plan um like a checklist of what they should be doing prior to calling you, but I think you answered that one.

Um and uh and if you feel like you have more to answer, then please please add more details.

Um the other one was um just looking at your purpose of being there, um, whether the schools seeming are seemingly safer uh for both teachers and students.

Um I've seen a lot.

So those things that you've mentioned, um, I've seen them firsthand.

Uh and uh so it's both on both sides.

Uh the safety issue is whether teachers and students are safe.

Um because I've seen it on both sides where teachers have been abused and students as well.

So um, and so that and um and and then the uh the other one that you may not have really touched on is um whether this um has built a relationship between police and community, and does it spill over into the community?

Like just looking at how how you've built that relationship and whether sh students are seeing police officers in a different way, um, so changing their behavior outside of school.

It definitely spills over because um say, like those events that are outside of school, ours um students have when something goes on, students have become protective of the officers they know that have been in their schools.

Um it does spill over.

Um simple story is that um a student, another student from a school came up to a different school to fight, and one of the administrators said, yeah, the student noticed there was an SRO vehicle that was parked outside, and they turned around and there was no trying to get into the school.

But um I believe that it does, even when they're out at Carmen Park, the students recognize them, or um some instances on Water Street when they're down there.

An officer can they um our SROs do work down there, they're like, oh, I know you, or the students are going the other way because they know that these officers know them and oh they can find their information, or the officers simply you don't need to be down here, why are you down here?

They know that they can seek information about them.

So it does reach over into the areas like I said, when officers aren't in the school, they're taking assignments.

So they could come across one of their students where the students know them, or a student um may need something.

A good one is um there was a student, and it's uh it's a funny story because I met this student at Obama.

I check up on the schools and met him for the first time.

Um, why are you in the hallway?

And he said he was fighting.

I'd go to visit Marshall a couple weeks later, he's there.

And I'm like, oh, what happened?

He goes, I um got kicked out.

And he goes, I came over here to level up.

I said, Well, okay, I hope you will.

And he the officers there really worked with him.

He was falling behind, he has some family issues um where he just couldn't commit to school, but the officers made it their point to ensure that he got through all his classes and he ended up graduating from school.

He wasn't on like a path to graduate, but he ended up graduating this year.

And they would help him with simple things as well, he may not be able to make it to work because he doesn't have a ride, but he can reach out to those officers and say, okay, this is what I need, and they're very helpful with that because they have a concern or um he needs socks for the day.

Even Juneteenth, all SROs work Juneteenth, but we know we have the team zone, but they were concentrated over there because it's like you will know these kids, these kids will know you perhaps that will keep trouble down because they are familiar with officers and what they do in schools and what they you know what they don't do.

So I do believe that it reaches over to the community.

All right, thank you.

Thank you.

Uh other questions?

Sure.

Alder Bergellis.

Thank you.

And I think it's important to uh maintain the distinction between school policy and let the school administrators and school public safety discipline and you know why SROs are in schools.

Um can you talk a little bit about what your non-school day assignments look like?

What part of the city, what districts are you in?

Are you focused where kids might like you mentioned Water Street?

Uh that's a special duty that you're not you're not there because you expect your students to correct.

Um on a day where what are your assignments on a day where say there is no schools?

We um basically farm the officers out to each district.

Um, and we will ask the district what do you need from us?

Is there areas of concentration you would like us to be?

Um there may be an event um that the district wants us to attend.

Last week there was trouble in Carmel Carmen Park.

So District 4 specifically asked us, can we um stay in Carmen Park for our eight hours of the day?

And that's what the officers did to I mean engage with the students, the young people, it depends, but more so we are um out at the districts when not taking calls for service this summer.

We have been taking part in Summer Guardian, which is Thursday through Sunday, um, between 11 and 7.

So we do the community engagement portion of that on those days.

So I try to fill their time in with definitely other things when we're not in school.

Yeah, on page five of your presentation, it looks like Marshall Rufus King and uh Hamilton have the three highest calls for service.

Uh do you spend your time in districts proportional to what you exp experience?

I mean, are you on the south side by Hamilton most often?

You mean for calls for service or I'm I'm I'm asking for the your non-school day um activity.

Are you do you uh distribute resources appropriately where based on what calls for service?

We try to, not even the cost for service in the school, just we just give that district more than likely every day that uh there is no school that there will be a squad in you know, district six.

And more than likely, if those officers are working, it would be those who are assigned to Hamilton or Pulaski.

We try to keep them in the same areas, but we do have to deviate sometimes depending on staffing and the needs of the city where they might need an additional squad.

Um, how carefully do you track where uh where you're assigned off on non-school days?

I'm sorry.

Are you able to tell us we've had this many officers in district six, this many and four, this many and one?

Well, normally I'll tell you it's normally about two a day, you know, that we at least have every day.

We assign someone every day to a district, whether it be day shift hours or the early power.

We do attempt to put a two-person squad in each district.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Um, with respect to the graph you had the 2025-26 analysis, it's early on in the presentation.

Page five.

All right.

Um that one, I don't know if you can pull it up or see it, but uh it looks like there's some schools where there's a high number of calls for service, but a relatively low number of citations, and for others they're pretty similar.

Is that just the seriousness of what they're being called for, or some schools maybe call happy or what's going on there?

I would say the seriousness of the call because every trouble with subject will not result in a citation.

That's uh normal uh you know, calls for service, not everything will result in a a citation, and we carefully try to figure out with the administrator which which incidents should have a citations.

Like I said, it's not a widespread thing.

So a call you could have a call, and some of those calls are come out within the school.

SRO may be assigned there, but they may have a trouble with subject in the school, which that's how we record these calls by putting those um within our call system.

If there is a trouble with subject where they're summoned, they will go over the air and say, I have a trouble with subject.

But doesn't mean a citation will be issue.

It's really hard to correlate the calls for service with the amount of citations that are issued.

And have you s had more success over time with working with administration on being careful about what they're calling in SROs for versus um a purely school disciplinary matter?

Um I'm sure that changes from school to school.

It's harder with the schools that we're not assigned to.

Okay.

Um, but we have had um talks with the administrator of those schools that we are assigned, like please don't ask our officers to issue citations.

This is not a citation moment, so the principals do adhere to that.

We we are in constant talks all the all the time.

We were we have to be careful not to just go around giving out citations and we we adhere to that.

We try.

And uh just kind of to tie a bow on it, uh there so years ago MPD was basically kicked out, asked to leave uh the SRO is the the school's um Act 12 put them back in.

Um it'd be good to hear from MPS as well, but MPD's opinion, how successful has the SRO program been?

Were there fears about what would happen that have been found to be misplaced?

Basically, what uh kind of asking you to grade yourselves there.

What do you think about the SRO experiments going back in schools that Act 12 initiated?

I think it's good.

I think that the students and staff, they need the officers there, and it I believe it gives the officers and the city a chance just to bond in a place where they're seeing the officers every day.

It's not just your your one-off call where today you're here, there, you can actually build relationships that carry over, like she said, into out of school.

You know, uh I think it's a a a great thing at this point.

Um I would say uh, you know, even just as maybe a couple weeks ago, um, two of our SROs invited a student up to our uh seventh floor, and he toured the seventh floor, and he's uh he's an artist and he loves drawing.

Um and he drew them in his little sketchbook, so he showed me his sketchbook.

I tore he uh came in my office and I uh had a conversation with him and explained to him about law enforcement and not every position has to be a sworn position.

You're an artist, told him about our uh graphic designer.

So they took him over there to uh her office to just let them know not every aspect of law enforcement is the badge and gun.

There's other aspects to the job.

So just you know, that mentoring aspect that the SROs are doing out there every day, um, that carries over to what this this is summer school now.

So they developed that relationship with that student, and now they're you know, checking up on the student over the summertime and and still encouraging him to uh pursue his um his um his goals.

So and that's just happened, you know, just recently.

So that was one of the hoped for goals, I guess, is the building of relationships.

Um and um hearing you saying that the SRO program has been facilitating that.

So and the parent actually reached out to the officers to ask if they could do that for him.

So very good.

Um other uh Alder Tiller.

Yeah, thank you so much.

Um I appreciate what you guys are doing.

Um being in the schools and just seeing directions in which students are going and sometimes just really trying to just make that difference in in one or two lives, um is important.

So thank you.

But uh looking at this chart, and I don't want to say, but just looking at this chart, um would it be teachers may look I I don't know if it's public or not, but if a teacher was to look at this and say, mm, maybe I won't go to Vincent, maybe I'll go to North Division, right?

Because the um would it be safe to say that one school would be safer over the other, or really you can't do that with this chart because of the nature of the calls that may have occurred at because I see Vincent has a high arrest rate in comparison to the others, or high citation rate.

You know what I mean?

So I I would say that this isn't telling of the safety of any particular school.

Okay.

Um, you know, any caller can call for police service.

And sometimes people feel fear way quicker than other people feel fear.

And so based upon calls for service, I wouldn't say, oh, well, don't go to this school versus this one.

Um so and then one thing I want to point out that was given prior in the presentation is this is just a very small fraction of the interactions and the students, 9,000 students, and about one percent are individuals in these categories.

So um to any parent who has any concern about the safety of their student, um, just like crime anywhere else, it's a very, very small portion of the population, a very small portion of the population of even these schools.

Okay, thank you.

And just to add on to that, with the the perspective, it's you know, it's everyone's perspective, you know, whether it's the school or the neighborhood, you know, someone's perspective of where I may live, maybe is completely different from mine's.

And I've been living there for over 26 years.

So when and then when you look at the arrest data, and some of those incidents may not even occur at the school, so um the it's hard to correlate, you know, the safety aspect as to what we're asked the response.

So just want to make that you know that distinction because you know it's it's it's it varies by perspective.

Okay.

I just wanted to be sure, considering that Vincent is in district nine.

And yeah, and different schools have different amounts of students enrolled.

Uh like Hamilton is a school that has uh they started with like 1,300 students.

Um, you know, so and some schools have less of an enrollment, you know, of students.

So there's there's many aspects to it, but I don't feel like this is telling whether a school one school is safer than the other.

Okay.

Thank you for that.

Thank you.

Uh any other questions?

Aldermore, anything in conclusion?

No, I just want to say um thank you all so much.

I know when I reached out, just your enthusiasm and willingness to share the work um that the team has been doing.

I can't thank you all enough for um just the relationship building, I think for me is one of those sentiments that um we have to do a much better job of um making those connections uh with young people, particularly um and our um service men and women, and so I just want to you know thank you all um for the support that you've provided.

We'll um do this again next year just so that we can have some comparison um and get some more a little bit more data um under our belt and you know again um let us know here if there's anything that we can do um to support.

Thank you.

Thank you for the preaching.

Mr.

Chair, just one last thing if I could just um since Vincent is in District 9, and if you're ever doing a talk with students and you would like for me to come out and talk with you, I would so much enjoy that.

Okay, appreciate it.

Thank you.

We'll do it.

And uh thank you again.

I think we've heard some success stories here.

So um people might have an impression, fears of what would happen, but it's good to have the um description of what actually has transpired.

So thank you for that.

Yeah, and I can attest, uh, you know, I worked one night, uh the cold red hours and seeing our SROs out there and engaging those um too young to be in the uh bars but old enough to be past curve view type thing, and uh that you know some especially at the eight o'clock hours, them engaging them, seeing it with my own eyes.

So thank you.

Very good.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

And with that, Alder Moore would move that we place this item on file and hearing no objections, uh so ordered.

Thank you very much.

Uh item eight, file number two six zero three eight one communication from the Milwaukee Fire Department relating to the feasibility of using light duty vehicles for medical runs.

This is sponsored by Alder Bergellis.

Thank you very much, Mr.

Chair.

This is a trailing resolution that follows our budget cycle uh for additional fire equipment.

Um in our 2026 budget.

And I appreciate the thorough very detailed in-depth uh report and presentation from the uh department that I know we have all already read and digested.

Uh so I just ask for highlights and uh some time for questions.

Very good.

Is that in the file?

Yeah.

Uh if I can correct one thing, it was recently added to the file.

Okay, as in today, uh, and I own that mistake.

Uh appreciate you moving this from the previous meeting or holding it from the previous meeting to this meeting.

Translation error, I thought I had included the file previously, but I hadn't.

All right.

So it's good.

Please proceed.

Mr.

Chair, if you can refresh the uh IPads, I I I managed to put it in there by a locometic.

Okay.

Thank you.

Uh good to go.

Yeah.

Uh I'm Chief Lipsky, Milwaukee Fire Department with me, Assistant Chief Josh Parrish.

Uh we've spent a good deal of time on the Milwaukee Fire Department exploring this concept.

Uh, and so I'm going to give you the highlights.

It's a 14-slide uh thing, but I'll uh I I don't want to not give it its uh just due, but I'm gonna move it along pretty good.

Uh so we've uh done a number of things here.

First off, uh we've done three different pilot phases on this all the way back to 2016.

We're gonna give you a brief summary of those.

Uh we've done um a variety of different vehicle deployment models within those.

We conducted a SWOT analysis uh of the entire concept, and then we we think we've got an evidence-based path uh identified for moving forward.

We can jump to the next one then.

So in 2016, uh the first time we tried this, it was a cross-staff model.

We essentially loaded up a suburban with some EMS equipment, parked it next to a fire truck, and if it was a medical run, the crew had to grab all their stuff off the engine, jump on the suburban, take that run.

Uh this was terminated after uh we were unable to respond to numerous fire calls while returning from EMS calls.

Uh and uh it it's something we I'll get into later in the presentation.

2019 we did a paramedic supplement program.

We identified through a lot of back end research a number of call types that uh either did not result in transport at all and had low morbility or mortal uh mortality.

They were pretty low importance calls basically, uh, but that might require paramedic intervention.

We tried that, that showed some promise.

And then we had a whole separate alternate response vehicle thing during the COVID epidemic.

That was very specialized only for that.

So that went away as protocols evolved.

Uh so a couple objectives.

Obviously, everybody's interested in reducing apparatus maintenance costs.

Uh as run volumes continue to climb year over year, uh, the rigs are out the door more frequently.

Uh we can jump to the next one.

We'll hit that in more detail.

The missing engine problem.

This is this is a problem created by the cross staff model.

Um, and so I I will not be an advocate for this model of having the crews jump back and forth and back and forth all day long between their heavy apparatus and the lighter vehicle.

Uh the the delay in getting out the door with that model uh on its own is it's it's just undesirable, but the fact that that engine now is not available for all of the other wide catalog of response types that it could respond to, most notably fire, uh makes that uh extremely undesirable.

If you look in the bottom right corner, uh we have 10 engine companies.

That's roughly a third of our frontline engine companies on any given day are tied up on runs for at least 35 to 45 percent of the time.

Uh an ARV concept amplifies that.

And when we say we're I'm talking specifically about the engine apparatus, uh that's that's unacceptable by by any protective uh or risk management structure for uh a major urban city structured how we are.

Uh ARV would amplify that in a cross-staffing model.

Three critical findings then.

Uh the operational risk of the cross-staffing uh, obviously, the the rapid growth of fire, the risk to life, the advanced property loss.

Uh that risk is not theoretical, that has already been experienced.

Financial constraints, obviously, uh having a SUV that we respond in uh is that in and of itself is not free.

Um by switching to that model, peer department's report is really not as substantial as one with and then obviously infrastructure barriers.

In order to add an SUV, we would have to have space in a fire station to do that.

Uh we'll get into why that's problematic in a second.

So uh in the phase two model that we talked about before, where we really really uh isolated a specific set of runs, we were able to demonstrate that we could reduce uh responses on those specific types by about 7,000 plus annually.

And what I mean by this is if we had two dedicated staffed light vehicles, uh alternative response vehicles, uh we're saving about uh just under 200 to about 330 runs a month, where we're not sending an engine and a med rig to that run.

We were just sending that that SUV.

And that was a pilot phase, again, that was was that 2019, I forgot the the exact year.

Um that was really isolating only those eight call types.

We estimate we'd need about four to eight of those for total citywide coverage.

Again, this was just an isolated pilot program.

Uh we didn't want to isolate any specific part of the city, and these vehicles did spend a lot of time driving, obviously.

That's that itself is not ideal, so we would want to bulk this uh concept up.

SWOT analysis then uh uh and and again I'm I'm really trying to rip here.

I don't want to read all these to you, I'll give you some of the the key points here.

Um strength is reducing the total call volume for heavy vehicles.

Uh it right sizes responses to those lower acuity calls as demonstrated in that phase two.

We already have tiered responses, so we could sandwich this in there, and it's very appropriate for treat no transport.

That's what that TNT means.

I lied, I said I was gonna give you a highlights, and I'm just reading it.

Uh I apologize.

Weaknesses then uh crews in an alternative response vehicle are not equipped nor capable to mount a fire attack uh or support that in any real way, to be honest with you, coming back in an SUV.

That per unit cost uh outfitted with all the EMS equipment is over a hundred thousand dollars a copy.

Priority stations, uh, which would be our busiest stations, are we know where those are.

They're they're the same heat map as every other issue in the city of Milwaukee.

Those are our older stations.

They barely have room for the fire engine and/or ambulance that are located in the buildings right now.

So that's a very real problem.

Our infrastructure would need to be changed.

Uh and then again, the concept of that we would uh have uh an enormous savings on maintenance by doing this is not substantiated by peer data.

Opportunities, run reduction, that's always good.

That's a we're we're constantly well, not we, assistant chief parish is constantly working on that, uh, and he's he's had some success with it.

Uh it's an innovation tool.

We're we're we're constantly attempting to be innovative and attempt to reduce the not just the wear and tear on the rigs, but on the people themselves.

Again, the future design of stations would certainly need to incorporate the ARV base.

And uh grant funding uh may be available for EMS innovation.

We're always looking.

Again, a lot of that has match funding requirements.

Threats, the life safety exposure during fire events uh at the same time, depending on the model selected, prolonged vehicle absence in high-risk city areas, meaning if you get this thing in a loop, those people on that specific vehicle, while keeping those heavies less busy, they might themselves just uh suffer burnout.

Again, uh threat is it would be really great to just build a bunch of new firehouses that fit this model.

Uh but those nice idea?

That's a great idea, right?

Uh that also is not free.

It's far from free.

And then uh there is a I think this is part theoretical and part uh fact, there would be a budget competition between this and our much needed heavy apparatus that that fleet is itself uh in shambles, I'll just say it.

So we've got on a very specific call type, we've got a huge, huge let me do this.

These are these next couple slides are emphasizing the points I just made.

Let me let me zip through these next four uh uh detailing the SWOT, and I'm happy to go back to them.

Uh I'm I'm just trying to uh move along here for you.

So if we jump to addressing the original goal, apparatus maintenance, slide 12.

So if we jump to addressing the original goal apparatus maintenance slide 12 so uh we've got a couple of different things we've got for the apparatus maintenance issue which is that's the original goal is how do we reduce that drag on apparatus maintenance uh and and the fact that those apparatus are very expensive and the maintenance is is complex uh increasing the replacement cycle obviously helps with that it's so I don't want to forget about that part of it a predictive maintenance program also key uh we are uh very very near to being able to release uh a very very in-depth study we did on how we might be able to either stretch the life of apparatus by adding mechanics at our repair shop adding people is not in vogue right now obviously uh with the the tightening budgets uh but we think it might actually be a solution that could could work out uh what it would also do is keep the fleet that is presently parked in service we have a ton of our fleet that's just waiting in queue for repair part replacement uh damage damage uh that's been done through reckless driving etc uh the maintenance of regional partnerships again this is not uh gonna turn into some big gold mine but we have uh grown with the approval of the council the uh maintenance re uh repair partnerships with all the shared services fire departments and then the dispatch optimization uh we believe that we can also reduce the wear and tear on apparatus by constantly crystallizing what we are sending to what alarm types and it's it's probably not buzzworthy or or you know uh super hot topic for anybody's interest but we are we've been doing this for years where we we're trying to always send the bare minimum of what could be needed for the maximum worst case scenario and we're doing this against uh folks that when calling 911 are not always excellent historians they're not super accurate with what they're reporting but they're doing the best they can and they're helping they're trying to call so the dispatchers have to play this Plinko game with very limited information to land on the right response we have been really starting to hammer some of those down and and the problem is is as we we're we're scooping out you know a thousand runs here 15 runs there 2,000 runs there of reduced responses because of data informed uh dispatching and then the next year the call volume just on its own goes up in all these other areas and it's hard to realize or feel like you're really winning you're just you know you're running to stand still right to quote my favorite band you two okay so chief really quick so for example when I called for my own home carbon monoxide detection would it have made sense to have a different apparatus because you know the whole shebang came out right it was cool so and it you all were responded very quickly I was really impressed would in that particular instance would a different apparatus been more appropriate so that that's a weird one because that's both a a service a potential fire emergency and a potential EMS emergency all in one oh I see which is the beauty of an all hazard response on a heavy piece of equipment.

I see in your case if nobody was sick okay now it's not EMS if it was not the result of something smoldering a burning you know uh a piece of equipment rubbing inside or a leak from an appliance well then it's it might not be a fire emergency at the end of the day it could be a bad CO detector uh the fire engine responding on that particular run or a ladder truck quite frankly can solve all of the problems whatever is presented when we get there so we just send the one when I was younger on the job you would have thought that you know it was the towering inferno with the amount of rigs we would send for a carbon monoxide leak.

Yeah now if we get if we get specific information that hey there's you know six people in the family are they're they're nauseous and the dispatchers will coach get out of the house and we'll send additional resources but that's a totally appropriate response what was sent.

Okay thank you.

So if we jump to the next one the run reduction value is real but conditional there is potential to both reduce runs meaning uh actually make some of the responses go away and focus those and funnel those better but also the per heavy apparatus response numbers there is potential to bring that down so couple things um the apparatus redundancy that's real uh the missing fire engine problem that is real so the cross staffing is uh I will not pursue that so it would have to be dedicated staffing uh and it would have to be for a very controlled call set as a result and uh the station infrastructure we we would love to put these in the the high utilization areas those stations are not they're presently not equipped to to supply these uh or rather support and house these uh and then the fleet scale obviously there's a cost to these vehicles and outfitting them all that's four to eight vehicles and uh it it this can't be something that we're doing then and then we're

And it would have to be for a very controlled call set as a result.

And the station infrastructure, we we would love to put these in the the high utilization areas.

Those stations are not, they're presently not equipped to supply these.

So we are that is that's our information.

Again, there's more in some of those slides.

I really ripped through.

We would absolutely love to take questions, and I would uh I just want to, as always, recognize assistant chief parish for uh yeoman's work on um doing this project.

Yeah.

Um thank you very much, Chief.

Just to start it off, uh you mentioned that to be effective, you would need four to eight of these ARV units.

How many positions or how many people staff each of those?

Uh it would be uh two people per vehicle.

There'd be two paramedics.

Per shift?

Per shift.

So if we had one out of a station, that would be six for each day, uh six for all three shifts for that station.

So uh if you wanted to do four of them, it's four vehicles, maybe a spare, and then six new positions for each one.

So 24 people, five unit, five vehicles.

Yeah, and a and a couple of extra people in there for paid parental leave, sick leave, injuries, all those.

Um do you think that firefighters would want to um apply for for that kind of a supplemental position?

Or do they, if you're a firefighter, you want to be first in line for a fire?

Uh I think firefighters, if if I can use the past five or six years as evidence, firefighters will jump in and help with whatever we need them to help with.

Uh I I don't it I will tell you people typically don't join a fire department uh and you know pursue the the title of firefighter with the sole emphasis of I just only want to do EMS work.

I think the logic of that it's flawed to suggest.

Now there are plenty of people who just absolutely love EMS, and that's what they want to do.

This may be an ideal spot for that.

Uh I I don't know that I I don't know.

I th I think we would be able to fill it if uh if that's the foundation of the question.

Okay.

Well, thank you.

Uh bring it around for other questions, comments from committee members.

No.

Uh no, I appreciate the the in-depth uh study.

Uh I guess the the question is the finances to make those extra four or five units um fly.

Um so uh are there any I'm not really sure.

I mean, I I know my predecessor was was big on the the I forgot what you call it here, the cross staff replacement model.

Um do you think the supplemental model can be made to work within it just can't be made to work within your current budgetary constraints?

Is that the No there's there's no way.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Um if I may small point clear, it's four to eight units.

Um it's not just four or six, and that's kind of goes to your question before by would people do it?

One of the things that we noticed when we did that first model is that they run a lot.

You are, you know, it's a lot of driving, which is why we need more.

So that call set that we would identify, would identify how many units we would need, 10 to that volume because it does become a lot of work.

Now it's rapid fire high brain work.

Um and then you also have to adjust that travel time for wherever they're coming from to wherever they're going to.

So that's where that gradiation is between four to eight units.

We'd you know, we'd need to nail down a specific number of how many we need and it'd be in that range.

Would it be worthwhile to start with one or two?

Yeah, I was gonna address it.

No.

So we we did two last time.

That so we did one on the north side, one on the south side, and one like this all day.

So what you had was two suburban running lights and sirens across 100 square miles of city.

For like 15 hours at a time, it was you know, the report was from them was it was useful, but it was just way too much like running because you can only work them so hard before decision making starts to fall, before they get tired, they get exhausted.

There's a 24 hour shift.

So just two was not enough.

Instead of supporting an entire half of the city, could they just support those highest volume stations?

Now we're back to where we put them.

The highest volume stations will have any room to put the vehicles in.

Oh, there we go.

No, you you actually answered um my question um just in regards to the to the numbers.

Um so as far as the dedicated space, I mean again, another, it would have to be sort of a built-out space.

Talk to me a little bit how that would work again with the dedicated space.

Sure.

Uh I'll jump in.

So uh our original uh inner ring, meaning near north side, near south side of fire stations were built in the mid-late 1800s.

They were built to support horse-drawn steamers and horse-drawn service ladders.

So they're just not they're not we barely can fit the fire engines that we have assigned there in those buildings.

We have to spec our vehicles a very specific way.

There there's not there's just not depth or width to you know, winnow in another vehicle in most of those stations.

Not we we could figure something out at some of them, but this we really prefer to not have stacked vehicles.

Uh it it only works in certain spots where uh for instance, if you had a battalion chief vehicle in front of a uh a heavy vehicle, that battalion chief vehicle can be you can start that and pull that out of the way right away so that heavy can get going on whatever they're going.

Um, I suppose an SUV, I guess I'm defeating my own argument here.

I guess an SUV if we could fit it in there, same problem.

If we can fit it in there, it works.

We we literally don't have the space to put in a uh VW bug in some of these stations in addition to what we have.

Yeah.

So you're saying Chief we need to bring back the horses.

Well, I was gonna ask the Milwaukee Police Department if we could borrow some of the things that we're gonna do.

Yeah, that would be a great partnership.

I think Heather would like that.

I appreciate the very steep hill to get up into the stables, but anything else.

No, more than any other thing.

All right, thank you very much.

Alden Spiker moves to place this communication file on file.

Um objections so ordered.

Thanks so much for thank you, Chief.

Um moving on to item number nine, file two six zero three five one.

Oh, I thought that's your file you want to read.

Okay.

Oh well, we'll pass back line.

Um item nine, file number two six zero three five one substitute resolution relating to acceptance and funding of Wisconsin Department of Work Force Development Fast Forward Grant.

Uh sponsored by myself, but Department of Emergency Communications is the real uh author here.

So if you want to come to the table and say anything about this grant?

Sorry, Tony Bueno with the Department of Emergency Communications.

The grant total is for 84,000.

It's targeted to individuals who will develop specific uh specialized skills.

And um it we have that.

Uh we hire people directly off the street, we train them into the positions that we require, and they gain uh a marketable skill.

Uh so we're excited that we have this opportunity.

Uh again, eighty-four thousand dollars is total uh yen.

And that's all I have.

Any questions?

Happy to answer.

Any questions from committee members?

If not, Alder Burgellis would move to recommend adoption and hearing no objections to order.

Thank you.

Item 10, file number 260419.

Substitute resolution relative to acceptance and funding of the 26th through 27 HIV partner services grant from the state of Wisconsin Department of Health Services.

Morning, Mr.

Chair, Committee members here in Chapinski, Milwaukee Health Department.

This is annual funding we get from the Department of Health Services, part of a series of statutory appropriations.

This one helps us support HIV uh testing education and uh not so much treatment but uh coordination of care.

It's part of our efforts in the SRH clinic at Keenan Health Center.

So we're glad to have this funding again for 2627.

And should you approve this does need referral to finance for changes to the positions ordinance.

Okay, questions?

Mr.

Chair.

Alder Burgellis.

Um thank you for being here and uh briefly.

Is this affected by any of the funding cuts, the federal funding cuts that were recently announced by the Trump regime?

Um no, it is not.

Um I think you're probably referring to Title 10, which uh the health department doesn't get any Title 10, so we're spared those cuts.

Um this is actually state funding, which um there's not a lot of it that comes to us for health purposes, but uh this is one of the state funded grants, so this has not been affected by those cuts.

Thank you very much.

Move adoption.

Alder Burghels would move to recommend adoption and referral to finance and personnel and hearing no objections, so order item 11.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

File number 260421 resolution relating to acceptance and funding of a 2026 Milwaukee Metropolitan Drug Enforcement Group Program Grant.

Good afternoon, Petra Decker, MPD budget and finance.

This is a sub-award by the Milwaukee County District Attorney's Office for their Wisconsin Department of Justice award.

The grant amount is $611,438 with 162,332 from the grantor.

This is a long-standing relationship that we have and a good funding source for us.

The grant will fund a portion of salary and wages or sorry, salary and fringe benefits for three department members assigned to the Milwaukee Metropolitan Drug Enforcement Group Task Force to reduce controlled substances in the metro area through targeted interruption of large-scale drug trafficking.

Okay.

Any questions about this?

Longstanding grant.

If not, Alder Moore would move to recommend adoption or referral to finance and personnel and hearing no objections to order.

Item 12, file number 260422 resolution relating to acceptance and funding of a Homeland Security WEM stack and analyst positions 2024 grant.

So this is a grant from Wisconsin Emergency Management in the amount of 210,755 dollars.

The grant will fund seven and a half months of salary fringe benefits over time and travel and training for four staff in the stack, which is the Southeastern Wisconsin Threat Analysis Center.

The stack provides a platform for collaboration among multiple federal, state, local, and tribal agencies and disciplines to exchange information and intelligence with the goal to improve the ability to detect, prevent, defer, and respond to crime and terrorism by analyzing data from various sources.

Again, this is a grant we've received for many years in a row, so this is the newest iteration of that funding source.

Very good.

Questions?

Comments?

If not, Alder Taylor would move to recommend adoption or referral to finance and personnel.

And hearing no objections, so ordered.

Item 13, file number 260423, resolution relating to acceptance and funding of Homeland Security Southeastern Wisconsin Threat Analysis Center operations 2024 grant.

This is another grant from the WEM in the amount of $61,000 for stack, which is the same entity that the last file is about.

And the funding will support stack training, equipment, supplies, and technology in order to ensure continuity of operations.

Okay.

Questions, comments?

If not, Alder Burgellis would move to recommend adoption and hearing no objections so ordered.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Um item 14, file number 260413.

Communication from the police chief fire chief and emergency communication director relating to the city's public safety response to the use of illegal fireworks in the beginning of July 2026.

This is sponsored by Alder Burgelis.

Thank you very much, Mr.

Chair.

This file came about after a uh uh I hate to call it a normally quite busy July 4th weekend.

Uh fireworks are proliferate throughout my district.

I get calls from constituents complaining about their neighbor, complaining that they try to call uh 911 and they're put on hold.

Uh it seems that this has been um continuing to escalate year after year.

Um last year we lost a garage uh because of improper disposal of fireworks on South 37th Street.

The risks and costs of public safety resources in the city because of fireworks should not be there.

Yeah, so today I want to hear uh what kind of call time weights we had for 911 service.

Did were was anything else critical impacted because of uh an abundance of calls for uh for uh fireworks related um disturbances, how many citations did the police department issue, and what kind of response did MPD and the fire department have for fireworks during the weekend.

Okay, very good.

The table's been set.

Uh who would you like to hear from first?

We can start at the beginning, Director Bono.

Okay.

Just uh jumping at the bit here.

This is I'm Tony Bono Department of Emergency Communications.

I apologize I didn't come prepared with uh some of the information that you requested.

I wasn't aware of uh the entire scope of it.

But I do I can tell you that year over year we've increased uh the call volume for the July 4th, July 5th uh time period by 1 percent or 2 percent in 911 calls, 2.6 percent in uh 10 digit emergencies, so combined those are considered uh 911 calls.

Overall, it's a five percent increase in call volume year over year.

We had 775 uh specifically coded fireworks calls or firework related calls.

I don't have uh the specifics on the call wait times, however, um a a and an exception to our standard and required performance measurements wasn't noted during that time.

Uh we follow up on those every week uh to make sure that we've uh met our standards and expectations and and that didn't happen.

So uh you you mentioned uh some hold times or uh some non-answered calls.

There's there's an issue with the non-emergency uh line that people use to get in contact with the dispatch.

Uh and and that's probably another discussion for another time, but uh we're working on ways to improve that service.

Well, and frankly, had they been able to get to the dispatcher, it's unknown or unclear that MPD would have been able to respond to those calls anyway.

But the concern is that the dispatchers were overburdened with fireworks calls and something um not fireworks related that is life safety uh was delayed because of uh influx of calls.

But thank you for that, sir.

Chief?

Uh yeah, Chief Lipske Milwaukee Fire Department.

So uh we evaluated uh the 24 hour periods of July 3rd, which would go 8 a.m.

on the third to eight a.m.

on the fourth, and then July 4th, 8 a.m.

on the fourth to 8 a.m.

on the 5th.

Um we had uh about let me look at make sure I get this right before I say the wrong.

We had a lot of runs.

Uh let me talk about the ones that were specific to uh fireworks.

We know that on July 3rd uh we had a garage fire that uh is very, very likely caused by fireworks.

On July 4th, we had two garages that burned down very likely as a result of fireworks.

Uh we had a large number of responses for smoke in the area, uh explosion heard, right?

People are not a hundred percent uh clear on what they're uh hearing or smelling, so they call 911.

Uh we had three responses for specific that we can uh isolate down that were directly related to injury from fireworks or people being struck by fireworks.

Uh and those ended up in uh fairly minor injuries, thank goodness.

Uh and uh there was uh there was a great deal of uh violence, not specifically related to fireworks, but it just seemed to be uh a relatively uncontrolled environment for a few days, and that extended well into uh the evening of July 5th over to the morning of July 6th, which I haven't categorized here, but that's just my own personal experience driving around the city and living in the city.

It's it was bonkers.

Yeah.

Um thank you, Chief.

Uh for the for the fires that did happen, so three this year uh over the weekend.

Are you aware of uh MPD's involvement investigating the source of those uh um fireworks, where they came from, were any citations issued?

Uh I don't have that level.

I can tell you that uh our fire investigation unit works extremely close with MPD's uh arson investigation folks that come out of their CIB.

Um I I don't know is the answer, and I'm sorry I am not prepared for that right now.

Okay.

Thank you.

MPD.

Um thank you, Heather Huff, MPD and Assistant Chief Um Steve Johnson is here as acting chief.

Um just to give you a little perspective on MPD's role in um responding to fireworks.

My numbers, I asked our OMAP team to pull for July 4th specific, and our dispatch calls for service, so those calls that MPD actually were dispatched to and went out to respond to are 57, um, which is a significant amount for, and that's just on one day.

Um we do have challenges when we respond.

We can't issue any citations unless we know exactly who the individual is who lit off the firework, and oftentimes the caller will call with just a general location versus a specific location, and that makes it very difficult for our officers to do um any immediate response or even investigation of a citation down the road without knowing the identity of who lit off the fireworks specific.

We I'm sure you all saw on the news we had our own officer who uh was a victim of a dangerous uh firework incident on Brady Street, and even for that, in investigating that, as our own officer who is injured, we are having difficulty tracking down who was the person, the suspect who actually lit off the firework that injured our officer.

Um so we do have challenges.

Assistant chief Johnson can speak to what happens on the 4th of July and the days before and to follow from a patrol perspective.

Um, but happy to answer any follow-up questions you might have.

Oh, just uh regarding uh the you know the response, like uh the chief of staff mentioned um, you know, it was mentioned earlier.

I live in the city, called the city of Milwaukee home for 45 years.

You know, I just want vacation during that period, but I was still in tune with, you know, because we not only had the fourth of July, but we also had the 250 celebration that we planned for uh in relations to uh not only the fireworks uh that uh some of my uh the districts increased personnel to try to respond to those type of calls for services and be proactive and in advance and and one of those proactive steps that we were taking to try to eliminate uh you know the use of those fireworks where we put out on social media, you know, um these are the um well I have the right here.

So uh not only um where we were the county parks that was having the fireworks, the the the dangers of of using these fireworks, uh you know, even my personal experience, you know, you know, fireworks are going off by my house and I didn't call the police, but I did follow up with that property manager just to let them know listen, you know, it's one o'clock in the morning.

You know, can you at least you know speak with your tenants regarding uh this issue because my wife woke me up?

So I understand the uh you know the concerns uh of the residents I I live here too.

Um is just the problem that we encounter when we are trying to investigate that's the uh the problem.

It's without that specific information as to who said it off and the person um being that complainant to identify who that person is, like uh Chief of Staff Huff said, you know, we're still trying to track down the person who injured one of our officers.

And sometimes, you know, you can see the fireworks, you may hear it even from my house, I hear, you know, from downtown, but you know, but the who that's the problem when we're trying to investigate these incidents.

But we did have a challenging uh weekend um as far as you know the overall uh crime that may have been occurring over that weekend um with some shootings uh and homicides and and all those other type of priority one type calls but services that you know our squads were responding to as well.

So how many citations were thank you for that?

Uh how many citations were issued this year?

Sure.

Um so I can tell you specific to a time frame of July 1st through July 5th of this year, three citations were issued.

Um year to date, fireworks total, eight citations have been issued.

How does three and eight compare to last year or the year before?

Sure.

So from July 1st through July 5th of 2025, 14 citations were issued in 2025, and then year to date, 2025, 19 citations were issued in 2025.

The year prior in 2024, between July 1st and July 5th of 2024, seven citations were issued.

And year to date in 2024, seven citations were issued.

Okay.

Scope out where this is happening after a call for service.

I would have to follow up with our um ATT team to see if they were deployed.

I I understand it it's difficult to see to be able to build a case that would withstand, you know, scrutiny from a judge on who uh is responsible.

Uh has there ever been any discussion about um allowing the investigative process to realize the where and citing property owners for um having a uh discharge of or spent fireworks in their driveway in their grass um in the street right in front of their house?

Uh if they're if they're having a party and people are congregating and there's a pile of spent fireworks in the public right-of-way ten feet away from their driveway.

That would require a law change.

Um and I'm not talking to lawmakers.

Yeah.

I'm not sure if it would um be at the local ordinance level, if there's some other state statute that would prevent it, but um I I would I would say that would be something that would require that legal review.

And if there if there were a city ordinance that assigned responsibility to the to a homeowner or property owner, is that still something that MPD wouldn't want to would be able to enforce, or would that fall down to neighborhood services?

Um that I wouldn't know off the top of my head which um department would be responsible for that enforcement.

Um but that would be a discussion I'm sure we would all um be involved in if that were pursued.

Um are there any pending investigations from the three garage fires that are still active that haven't been charged or cited yet?

I don't have that information at the ready, but I'm happy to get that back to this committee.

Do you know if any of the three were investigated were charged?

I unfortunately did not bring that information with me today unless do you think it it's not unusual, even as you know, far removed as a couple weeks out to not have something definitive yet.

Uh there it it just takes a while.

It's a it's a it's a difficult process to it.

It's one of the most difficult crimes to bring to conviction just based on evidence burning in the commission of the crime.

But um we can dig on that too, get back to you.

And then that kind of investigation, does that also go into investigate the source of the fireworks where they purchased?

Yeah, if if we're able to track back far enough to who made the purchase, if we can if we can tie those things together.

I mean it's when we're talking uh you know, burning something to the ground and exposing all of the surrounding closely placed wood frame properties to the same risk.

Yeah, that's something that we will dig as far back as we can possibly go, but we can't we can't uh we can't know what we don't know if we can't find the person.

Right.

And and generally speaking, fireworks that um explode or go up in the air are illegal in Wisconsin.

Yeah, they're de anything open burning is and and fireworks are illegal.

I can speak to the city limits, absolutely.

Right.

Well, there are other municipalities that don't restrict the sales.

Oh, I see.

So some other municipalities very close to the 11th Aldermanic district that frankly encourage tent sales and get a lot of money from permit fees by selling fireworks that are uh legal to sell but illegal to use in the city of Milwaukee.

Yeah, correct.

That's that's fair.

Uh and you hop on any freeway heading out of town, yes.

Oh, yeah.

Uh and you know, head south on 94 North Chicago, they got buildings built for this purpose.

41 north, um, you know, and that's the problem with the you know it's it's legal to sell it, but the um using it in our city obviously is illegal, and when you could just step across a uh city border and you can sell it, you know.

We're now tasked with you know enforcing it, and the enforcement aspect is the challenging part where we have to be able to produce a case to go either to the city attorney's office or uh the the DA's office.

Yep.

Um so my last question for the three citations that were issued this year, uh do we ask where those were purchased?

Uh I would imagine they would, but uh, you know, we have to dig into the look at those narratives and see um what was uh how that investigation uh went.

But um trying to figure out, you know, um where they may have been purchased, it may have been purchased legally outside our city limits.

It's just now we're just investigating the aspect aspect that you use it in our city.

Right, and also and I'll say that it is I think imperative that we understand where these fireworks are coming from.

Because if they're coming from a neighboring adjacent municipality that allows the sale, and the city has an existing agreement with that same municipality to protect their citizens against fire risks.

And the city of Milwaukee staffs a fire station in their municipality, and their internal municipal ordinances make it make our job make the the fire departments and the police department's job more difficult, then we have no business engaging in a reciprocal agreement to protect their citizens.

I'll leave it there.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Um before going on to Alder Taylor, I had a question.

Um so it looks like with three citations between July 1st and July 5th, if you played the fireworks lottery this year and lit off something you need to be illegal, you were more than likely going to win.

And that seems to be the case every year.

And it's very frustrating for our constituents and not putting the blame here, I understand um proving your case is is hard.

Um but are there any suggestions, anything MPD um is exploring for maybe how other cities have looked looked at this, or is this just something where you have to suck it up and realize that you know a million people breaking the law at the same time is something that MPD is not able to really do anything about during those few days?

I would say we're in constant and regular communication with surrounding jurisdictions and including in the state of Wisconsin, some of the challenges that we see across the state.

Fireworks is one of those challenges.

Fireworks is one of those challenges across the nation during the Fourth of July holidays, not sure what other states' laws are.

That being said, um the there is uh real issues with enforcement of citations because we have to know that who.

Now we are willing to work with our lawmakers and policymakers on other options that might make that easier, including the idea that Alderman Bergellis brought up of uh issuing uh citation or some type of violation to a property owner.

That seems to me a great idea.

I wish the city attorney's office were here to get into the legalities of it, but things like that would make it easier for us.

So if you're asking if other municipalities have other solutions that we've explored, we're in communication with them.

We're not aware of anything perhaps that is uh surrounding us that's any different.

Um but we would welcome the opportunity to continue the conversation to figure out solutions as well, because these are things that do affect the quality of life of this community.

Um it could bring harm to others, including our own employees.

I think that and it just checking in how is the officer doing who is hurting she's she's uh she's she's still recovering, but uh um she's doing fine.

Okay.

Umder Taylor, I interrupted you had a question.

Yep.

Thank you.

Oh so I just with these um citations that were issued.

Um were they were you able to issue those because of resident cameras catching the individual or what what led to that?

That's a great question.

And I have actually while we were here texted our OMAP to pull those citation narratives for me.

I'm happy to share what I can uh with this body to determine how we were able to get the identifying information that we needed and also to determine if the officers asked any follow-up questions about where the fireworks came, and I'll share that with you just as soon as I get that.

Okay.

Yeah, we greatly appreciate that.

Um I think that we do need to do something else.

I agree with my colleagues that um it just it seems like there should be something that we can do to ensure that the residents are safe and um just it it's a disturbance in the in the night that and it goes on long after it should.

So um so I think we need to do something, and I'm not quite sure what, but um definitely willing to um explore that a little bit more.

You know, the one aspect, like I said, when it happened by my house when I went to the uh complex and spoke with the manager, and I saw when you were talking about the uh what is that the debris.

When it was in that parking lot, you know, I took a picture of it and I showed it to the manager, and it's more as like I told them I'm just coming over as a homeowner.

So not wearing this uniform, just um, you know, trying to police your tenants.

Um trying to get that neighborly approach um as uh uh another re uh response and trying to hold them accountable per se.

But it's it's one of those um those challenges, like it's still I I saw the the depre debris out there, but I don't know who who did it.

Correct.

I was in dead sleep.

Um yeah, I'll leave the questions there.

Um I'll leave my questions here.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Uh Alder Moore.

Thank you so much.

I don't know necessarily if this is a question or just more so um a comment because you know, I went around the neighborhood as well and saw the debris.

They're right in front of people's homes or multi-unit homes and um left in the streets.

Um, you know, the area was sort of in particular spaces littered with um, you know, what with fireworks, and you know, when I was younger, you know, I remember the sparklers and the you know, the little small little firecrackers that, you know, hey, we would partake in, right?

But I don't remember, you know, 11, 12, 1 o'clock at night, and um, I mean, you know, folks are purchasing the profession.

I mean, these I I had professional fireworks going on um in my neighborhood.

Uh and you know, again, I you know, folks are enjoying the festivities, but it just went on so late, and then it was after it was but it started before the Fourth of July, and then after the Fourth of July.

Um, and so for me, you know, when we talk about what we can do about it, um, it has to be an all-city approach.

It it can't just be on one entity.

I did see um the the video that um NPD did um around fireworks, but I think it's an approach that um every aldermatic district's neighborhood groups have to um um engage in, specifically around the education of it.

I didn't hear anything much at all, except aside from coming across the video, I didn't see any billboards, I didn't see any PSAs, I didn't see I just did you know anything on the news to say, you know what, this is you know, by the way, just so you know, fireworks are illegal um in the city of Milwaukee because some people may think it's still it's legal because you can get it so easily, and everybody has it.

So you're like, oh, you know, so I don't want to um make assumptions that people know.

I just don't think we did a really good job pr starting prior.

So these are the things that need to happen in June leading up until the Fourth of July, just the education piece.

I just didn't see it as intensely intensively, and again, there wasn't a lot of collaboration.

It just wasn't a strategy, you know, to curb the behavior, to educate folks to let them know that it's illegal.

Um, but I I definitely think it just has to be a team approach because I got the calls, I got the emails, um, and it was just like there were other things that you all that MPD was um you know tending to that was a higher priority.

And folks were they were just upset because they're like it's happening right now.

And I'm just like, I I get it, I'm so sorry, right?

So I think for next year, I think we need to have a strategy that we figure out what does that system-wide approach, you know, looks like.

How can I, I'm um, I'm gonna use myself.

How can I personally get it out to my residents, work with my neighborhood groups, right?

And really getting the word out there um to our constituents.

So it's in June, I think it was June 24th.

Um, you know, doing one of our executive briefing, the chief uh made it uh a point to ensure that at not at my captain's meeting that we discussed this early on to try to get a um ahead of this.

Yeah, trying to put out those messages um uh even about the dangers of the fireworks, you know.

I I use myself as as an example, you know, before all this, I unreal my hoses just to, you know, in case something does catch fire by my house.

And at one particular time it did happen, it was the complex behind me, but it's it's just we have to, you know, let them know this is dangerous.

Yeah.

Um and this is one of these these briefings that we you know that we put out there from our uh um safety division.

Uh you know, we try to, you know, put out this information to let them know, yes, if you want to enjoy the fireworks, go and see it by the professionals versus um you know your neighborhood impromptu uh firework displays because you're not prepared to deal with if that incident uh goes uh and now it spreads to a fire.

And now we have to call in our brothers over here to, you know, come and um uh put out these fires.

So, you know, yes, is is enjoyable to see it by professionals, but leave it to the professionals.

And that's the message we were trying to put out.

Yeah, and we put a video out and put these out.

But I think you know, us working together with our partners and talking to uh, you know, at our crime and safety meetings and just putting it out there that it is dangerous.

That's what's forced me to stop playing with fireworks.

Yeah.

I uh if I can comment uh we we did do some media spots and we did push out on social media, and I believe we also pushed out on the next store app, which we have almost a hundred and eighty thousand unique recipients on the next door app that we're able to publish to.

Um I would point out that just the same as it's you know, you're you're receiving constituent constituent complaints, it's very likely your constituents that are also just ignoring common sense and violating the law.

Yeah.

And in my experience driving around on the third and the fourth in all areas of the city just to see what was going on.

You there is no amount of police you could have that could keep up with the amount of people that had the big box setups in the middle where it fires off a hundred different I mean there's I don't care, you could have a police officer in every corner, you're not stopping it.

Uh we frankly were completely outnumbered by people who against their own self-interest and their own property interests continue to take part in something that has long established has long been established to be illegal in the city limits.

It's not new information.

And it's not you know, so we I w I would I would petition hard to do exactly what you said and let's get in front of it uh in community meetings and your newsletters and anything we can do.

But you have to have people receiving that and actually reading it and caring.

Yeah, um before we go to Alder Taylor, I mean I've I've seen things for a while here, and I know there used to be, you know, your standard press conference where um predecessor, maybe Alder Murphy would go out and say, you know, even a sparkler is illegal in the city of Milwaukee.

Don't do that.

But I I think Chief, you hit on a critical point.

We can do uh a great deal of communication, but there are plenty of folks out there who know full well it's illegal and just think it's no big deal in the context.

So I I think we should right size our expectations, and I know we're in the business of promoting that we can solve all these problems, but there's some issues here that are pretty fundamental, and I'm all for the communication bit, but I want to be realistic too.

You know, us saying how terrible reckless driving is is very important.

But sometimes you're preaching to the choir and you're not getting to the folks who are really um at the root of the problem.

So anyway.

Um Alder Taylor, sorry, kept you waiting.

Oh no, that's that's fine.

Um just in hearing what you guys were just saying, um thinking about the uh so you're right, fireworks could be enjoyable if you can go and see the professionals do it.

But when you're standing at your home and you're watching someone right down the street do it is pretty scary because you don't know what's gonna happen with that, right?

So uh so if I'm standing there and I'm watching all these cars come down the street and they gotta be full of fireworks, right?

So this is what actually happened.

So I'm standing there, I'm thinking that, oh, okay, well, maybe it'll settle down and then it gets quiet, and then I see three more cars come down, and now that's that I see fireworks set off again.

Which says to me that these cars are bringing more and more as they're coming down the street.

If you're finding that these that you find someone driving and they have a car load uh fireworks, then that person is then held accountable if you stop them, or if it's reported that, hey, here's a car, here's a plate.

Is that one of those things that you can do then?

Or still that doesn't determine the person.

Um so I think that gets into the ability to search our vehicle.

Um and that can only occur in in very limited circumstances for an actual crime and not a municipal citation level offense, unfortunately.

So um that you know, sometimes it's frustrating because we get it, we see things, we know it's happening, but to have the ability to do the actual things to find out what's going on or to gather the evidence, um there are um obstacles with that um that just can't be overcome.

So um I don't know if there's any ability um to figure out vehicles without being in consultation with the city attorney's office on what we can and can't do for municipal violations.

Okay, one more thing, then let's go to the home.

Right.

So you see the home that they're operating out of that they're right in front of in that yard, setting off the fireworks.

It may or may not be the owner, but can you then at least report it and then it gets added to the nuisance properties or something where you can begin to say, okay, landlord, or okay, you're gonna be fined because you're now uh becoming a nuisance to the neighbors.

So that would require an ordinance allowing us to do that to and then also a change to the nuisance ordinance to include fireworks.

We're all for it, and we want to work with um the start in the nuisance ordinance.

The citation part, yeah, I'd have to look at the enumerated list.

It's been a while.

Um, but these citations that are maybe or maybe not, I'm not gonna speak to it because I just don't know offhand.

And that was going to that point that I was trying to make earlier, is just you know, if it's if we can't determine the who um then how can we address the place?

So, like for my specific one, when I saw the Powell in the backyard in that parking lot, I went to the management company to say, hey, listen, if we're because I don't know who, yeah.

So far as law enforcement enforcement, we're kind of limited, but you as the property owner, manager or whomever, you are control of who you rent um and all the stay at your places.

So now they they may can act on other things that you know law enforcement we're limited on, but as the property owner, uh and you're renting to certain places, you know, how can you police your your tenants or your the people that live there?

So now that's in a complex.

Yes, complex and then and then single family you might be able to do.

Single family homes, then it would point where now you know who is that property owner, is it uh owner occupied, is it renting, and and if we go there and try to figure out all right if from what my experience of drive around, the you know, if you're in the city, it's it's people that's lighting off these fireworks, they're not calling us.

You know, the the person that may live a few houses, blocks, or even mile away, maybe hearing it and they may be calling us is it's just that and for my officer to take that next step.

Yeah.

Yes, okay.

And it is in the nuisance ordinance.

So 80 10-C1B illegal sale discharge and use of fireworks as defined in another section of the code.

But the fact that we're not sure about that shows how often we're using that section of the nuisance.

Thank you.

Um we can't.

But uh along those lines, one thing I have found to be helpful and I've used in my own district through the the good work of my captain and his team is the CLOs, the community liaison officers, there's certain chronic offenders every year, they light it up.

And so we asked the CLOs kind of to do a preemptive knock and talk when it starts percolating.

Um that's a staffing challenge, but I have met with some success then.

So it's not that you can't do anything.

What you can do is labor intensive and uh, you know, that still relies on people getting nervous that you know a visit from the police saying, hey, you you've you've had a pattern here, the neighbors are are very concerned.

Um I've met with some success for that.

So I don't want to suggest that we can't can't do anything here.

But um I think that uh the the steps of uh if we're meeting with these property owners and that was my point to that complex, it's you know, I'm from 80 10.

Uh if we're getting those uh constant complaints and and whether or not I can't prove who said it off, but I know there's just the big display, but that's just a complex.

But now when you if you're talking about at a uh residential location, if it's on the city streets, you know, I can't really say that came from this address unless they're someone telling us that.

Um so using the the 80 10 in that sense, uh that could be uh you know a tool for us to uh you know proactively um try to police the the situation because absent the 80 10 and us actually observing my officers observing it or someone giving us and being a complainant.

Um that's the the challenge that you know but we we gotta find you know I'm um welcome to uh you know the 80 10, especially with if it's a chronic place that's as uh occurring all the time.

So though the one issue we do have, and I I think A.

C.

Johnson is alluding to it, is that the 80 10 uh activity has to be substantiated in order to substantiate that even if it is in close proximity to a property actually tying it to that property, you know, uh would be an issue unless we had a personal observation or some type of proof that um it belonged, you know, within that property owner's purview.

You could have somebody witness.

I saw the guy come out of the house.

I saw him go in his driveway.

I saw him light up.

You can use witnesses for correct if they're willing to testify in court to be witnesses and a and non-anonymous.

Yeah, because you know, some may call us with the information that you know what, but I'm not trying to be that uh that listed uh witness so we can substantiate it.

Absent my officers actually sent it for them and which there are some of those instances where they have and they've confiscated uh the fire the fireworks.

Um that's a whole nother do people typically submit videos.

I would assume that a video that that a resident may capture videos of those narratives.

I actually just looked over um the narratives that we have all three were personal observations of our officers.

Okay.

Officers.

Yeah.

Okay.

Uh Alder Bergellis, uh, you would you like to bring us to a conclusion?

I would.

Um is there an opportunity uh in the future to have a crime tip or a firework tips hotline text line or um some some part of evidence.com where neighbors can make a an anonymous complaint or submit video evidence that would be looked at or followed up with by MPD.

The challenge with that is it couldn't be anonymous because we would need a complainant, and we would need somebody to lay the foundation for that video to say here is this is my ring camera video, and I testify that this is a not anonymous, but is there an opportunity to um have a single local place where people can make a complaint for this that would actually be looked at and followed up with by CID or MPD in the future.

I don't have an answer for you at this moment.

I would have to let you know.

Um I do want to uh bring this to a close.

Um I think it's incredibly important to establish a public record or have citations for um property owners that allow this kind of activity on their on their property.

It's disturbing uh to their tenants, to other tenants to neighbors um uh a block away or much much further away for the for the um uh invasion of Kuwait uh level of uh bombs that are going off in our community.

Um I think it's important to ensure that we have a um repository or a place where insurance companies can uh see a violation uh of a potential insured uh that would determine that they would be a much higher risk.

I would even go so far as that I would ask neighborhood services or MPD to provide a and publish a insurance threat list of properties that have been cited for fireworks so that people that are a threat to public safety are held accountable by their own insurance companies.

Uh if this is something you don't want to do, then uh if you don't want your insurance premiums to go up, then don't light off fireworks in our community.

Uh there are a couple of uh incomplete uh data requests uh from all three departments.

Um the final disposition of uh investigations, um the supplemental narratives for the for the tickets that were issued, and there might be some pending tickets that haven't been issued yet, and then some data from the from the um emergency call center.

Uh so I would ask that we hold this file uh to the call of the chair so that we can get that data compiled into the file and presented uh in September or October.

Okay.

Uh with that, Alderman Burghels would move that this item be held to the call of the chair for further discussion.

Thank you for the robust discussion today, and uh thank you, members, for your diligence today.

It was a long one, the last one before the August break, so we were trying to get in as many requests as possible, so appreciate your patience.

And with that, we are adjourned.

Thank you.

Thank you, everyone.