You ready?

Yeah, Nicole's turning on the recording.

We're good to go.

All right.

So study session today, starting with presentation on utility utility billing and assistance.

Michael, I was born in Amy Randis.

Thank you.

We wanted to throw into, but um, we're just trying to limit our presentation to 20 minutes and open it up in 20 minutes for all questions.

I wanted to start by saying that a year ago, this position was unfilled.

And also it's a face of the city, and like there's a lot of conversations that we're having with residents in utility billing.

Somebody that's patient, uh, has hard conversations with people, and does it with grace, and I am static that she's here.

So I'm glad that she's here, and you guys get a chance to talk to her and see how great the person she is.

Um we just kind of want to tell a little bit about what utility billing does, what administrative tools we have, uh, what the monthly shutoff process is, what our utility assistance program is and how that works, what other external outside uh resources we have, what other cities are in our uh region are doing that are our size and how we compare to that, and then kind of a little bit of how different things that we do, how those impact the utility rates going forward.

First off is I kind of put this together, Amy and I, on a what her duties are.

And there's different stages in the month.

There's the beginning of the month, the middle of the month, the end of the month, and at the beginning, you can kind of read through it.

She was doing fast due notices and calls.

Um of this I'll get into a little later, but we contract with an outside firm meter readers that goes out and reads physically reads our meters.

We don't have an automated system.

Um so we're doing that.

Um, we're in touch with uh commercial businesses for we have things called deduct meters, and um some of our customers, our commercial customers, we have to contact them to give us the support those.

Uh we run aging reports, I shouldn't say we maybe.

And uh we also contact uh customers uh who are on the past due notice.

So that's kind of the beginning of the month stuff, which flows into our mid-month.

Uh we're we do uh an abnormal uh consumption reports.

If somebody is way above like a threat zero or at over 10 CCF uh per month, we kind of do an analysis of hey, is this normal?

Is this a correct read?

Is there a leak?

Something like that.

Uh we prepare uh for the shutoff process, which we'll get into.

Um we submit uh all accounts uh for leak checks and adjustments for our approval process, and then we also send um people to pass due to collections.

Mike, just before you go on, I think one thing on that abnormal consumption report, like I think the meter readers is because this is all annual process, there's human error.

So, yes, it could take point to a leak, it could point to a misread, and there's a staff capacity challenge then of our public work staff going out to verify those potential misreads.

So um I'm just gonna briefly highlight some of these, but we go through and we get the meter read file back, we do an audit of that, make sure everything looks good.

It's kind of to Emma's point.

When meter readers reads it, if it's a misread or a leak, then public work steps in, and then our staff goes out and has to take time out of their day to go and reread the meter or to look and see if there's a leak.

So that's more uh burden and administration on the city and public works.

Um sense of how many months that averages.

I would probably say 15 to 20.

And as far as misreads and rereads.

Um lead checks, I would probably say estimate maybe 10.

Um meter checks.

Sorry, for terminology, but it's when the meters don't want a reading.

I would say, you know, maybe there's 15, 20 of those.

So when you add them all up together, it's a lot of things.

Quite a few of them extra.

Yeah, service orders for the scrum.

And this is for another conversation, but something that Peter and I talk about is AMI meters and exploring that.

A lot of other cities in the region are going to that.

It's an initial cost uh capital investment.

I was figuring between like two million dollars around there, but the cost of meter readers is going up.

It's over 100,000 a year now that we're paying for that.

So at some point there's a tipping point where we want to go automated, and a huge benefit to that is meter readers is going out and reading once every 30 days.

If we could do AMI, we can do that once every hour, once every 15 minutes.

If somebody has a leak, we're finding it faster than our current process.

And what is the capital cost more or less for switching to a system?

It's going at the time and labor to go out to all the uh meters and switch the meters out, cost of the meters.

You think it's like two million for the system, but then it depends.

It depends on what you want your system to look like and how it communicates.

So uh what's that?

Owen to it it potentially could be.

I mean, some of some of the work that you could do is you're not necessarily placing all the meters but an additional component on the other uh that uses the existing paper, but then you don't get any changing.

Um in the last few years we can cloud infrastructure.

We we had in-house leaders like with drink water and petrol gas, and we went to uh and sort of a fiber communication network, and um it provided a lot of benefit uh both to city and customer in terms of information.

But there's there's a big cost associated plan, correct?

Yeah, it's not something that we have in our currency, but it's a connection to the next half of the study session potentially.

What is the when you talk about that type of system improvement?

How quickly would it pay itself off, or you talk about some of the benefits, but what does that look like?

Well, that's what I'm trying to do.

I haven't done a cost benefit analysis of it yet, but it's two million bucks for paying meter readers 100,000 per year.

I mean, that would be I guess 20 years, but there's other factors that come in like leaks and things like that that we the data, the faster access to data would just be significant for us.

We wouldn't have to do rereads and send people out through time to do that.

Sure.

So I'm curious how often you actually find a link.

And I will admit that one of the public works people came to my house several years ago and said, Oh, we need to check for a leak too.

Or I'm like, oh yeah, I let my spring grow up for two days.

We have a lot of leaks.

We have a lot of research ones.

Yeah, you know, we have a system that you know homes were very developed, you know, we're developed community.

There's a lot of older homes, there's a lot of older uh service ones that that exist in in the you know in the city, and you know it's the city maintains the service from they to the uh discharge point of the beer.

It's the property's responsibility.

So sometimes there's a leak on our side, sometimes there's a leak on the customer side, and you know we are uh we have four pressure zones, so the the more the more pressure, the more you know, it can have uh a lot of water volume in your house, the more pressure that this is what has and cause more leaks as well.

Um the last minute that was in we had more pressures on those already when we bought one storage head.

So we uh we were looking at pressure um that ranged uh like 45 to 50 pounds per square footage.

We have places in the community where um people have pressure that are you know panels or square so that type of pressure can out of the packs on service lines that cause more leaks uh over time where those so out of the 50 or however many we refer out in a month on leaks or something every month, definitely the adjustment requests every single yeah, yeah, not 50.

I would probably say less than 10, but those are the ones um that were substantial or either us to trigger a service order to set our crew out and all that, or something within you know the homeowner might find a soft spot in a grass and they start to do their own research.

So there's different ways, and then of course there are um intermittent leaks like red toilets and dripping faucets, and those are harder to catch um by the crew because if someone wiggles the toilet, stops the leak till the next time the toilet starts right in addition to being a leak detective, there's incredible that's the meeting does.

Um a big thing is that she also works on the front desk on Thursdays.

She's also our business registration leave, and she takes on a lot of tasks.

And she takes on a lot of tasks.

Um, I hate to admit it, but she's here past me some nights at the seven o'clock.

So I appreciate her dedication.

Next slide is we want to talk about like our tools that we use to administer uh utility billing.

Um our big thing is we use Tyler technologies and code for uh software.

We began this in 2003.

Uh uses the service all 7,000 accounts.

It's pretty standard, I think, for cities our size.

It's it's a good software, but it's not um it doesn't, it's hard to pull a lot of data out of it.

Um there's a number of different factors on this.

One is the AMI, if we don't have it up to that.

Two is a lot of the meters and everything are set up in an older system.

So for commercial wise and stuff, we might have one meter servicing three to four different uh commercial places.

Um it's good for administrative and billing, but it's not robust.

Um we use it to email statements.

We just uh transition to that recently.

We're sending out about 3,000 email statements currently.

Want to get that number up so that people go paperless.

Um this is also tied to the municipal online website so people can make payments online, which helps reduce administrative burden that way.

Um, and we also use it to create service orders for public work so that they can go out and do our sending checks.

We also work with Ben Mailing, they handle our printed and physical mailing uh statements.

Currently, we're estimating those at 4,000.

Uh we're trying to reduce that number.

Uh it just helps us be you know nice to go paperless and it helps reduce costs.

Uh, as we talk about meter readers, uh, they're a partner of ours too that they basically go out and get all the reader reads.

Um and then our public works department goes out as we talked about this degree reads, leak checks.

They also do door hangar delivery and perform the shutoffs, and they install all of the city meters, basically.

The 4,000 for the service that yeah.

And I just want to know, you know, put a fine point on what Michael said.

I think Tyler is great, and I do think it is the standard for a city of our size.

I'm sure there are schnazzier systems with bigger bells and whistles, but for what we can kind of afford and do, I think it's good.

But I've learned, you know, as we went through, for example, the public safety fee.

You know, I I kind of was like, oh, shouldn't it just be easy?

We pull up all these ones that are in this category for safe, and we'll just auto-apply.

There's no auto-applying, it's still clunky enough, but there is a lot of manual processing.

And once it's all set up and coded correctly, yeah, it can do the job.

But I think that was an eye-opener for me that it's not as slick as as a Google or something where you're just like whoop whoop boop and it's all gonna happen.

It's it's pretty clunky.

Um mid-tier government software.

And I think that's just a good thing to keep in mind when sometimes it might seem like something's very simple.

There's still a pretty large administrator.

I put it as out of the box how Tyler wants you to use it.

It's great, it's fine.

Start making customizations and changes and everything, then you have to reach out to their support, and then you're getting into um making changes to it where it gets kind of covered.

Yeah, not impossible at all, just not as quick as run a report out of code and you're not thinking that's a little bit less clicky, but we're not seeing price.

I think right now it's integrated with our whole accounting ERP system.

And I think for now, it's the best that there is, and we always kind of look.

Tyler is the standard, and nobody is kind of come into this space kind of yet that might change, but I don't see any it is what it is.

I feel like didn't we have an RFP or something that we have to say two years ago?

Yeah, two or three years ago.

We we we gave an opportunity to others to get in the door in the LinkedIn or something.

I don't know we can check on that.

That doesn't ring a bell to be, but that would be important.

So yeah, I think the other thing too with how the dozen offer is like a portal for customers to look at like the customer information.

That's like one of the things that we can also within AMI.

Most of AMI systems come with a customer portal, so you can look up your account and see your use your consumption.

So that's cool.

Michael, what do you think is the uh the uh hurdle here to get more people to sign up for uh email?

So I think it's just comfort because they know like, hey, I'm needs to getting this bill in our push.

We put something in the pilot, I believe in G even about hey, we're moving away from uh I think it was I forget what portal it was before, but we're voted the pilot to do it all email.

Um I know that Amy always if they are on a statement, you know, letting them know, hey, put your email into this and it will come.

I think it's just kind of building the trust with people that hey, this is gonna come on a monthly basis into your inbox, and that it's not gonna go into your spam folder and it's not yes, people like yeah.

I don't think that uh you know, I think without you know, auto pay email maybe not get you that much because it's like you know, it's just a forced social.

They got this piece of paper in front of them, and they probably got some place where they stack the bills that go do that once a month, and uh so you know we all get way too many emails, and you know, I'm certainly guilty of forgetting emails and that kind of thing.

So I don't know if they're if they're not set up on some sort of auto pay, people are probably they'll be hesitant to do it.

Something to add to this is if we were gonna get into the shutoff, people's pay tendency is various throughout the city, and some people like to pay their bills, or they want to pay it when they get the past due.

I don't operate this way, but when Amy reaches out to them, they're like, Oh, yeah, I know I'm just waiting for my past due notice to pay that on a quarterly basis.

So when we talk when we go into shutoffs here, everybody has different quirks on how they like to do things and what triggers you get to pay.

And I think that's well okay, but that's game in the system.

I mean, I there's charges.

It's eight dollars for the past two notice.

Okay, so they're spending both.

And that's one of the cover.

So that's one of the exception points when they bring that.

I'm like, look how much you can save.

We also we talked about this a little bit in our financial stability work too.

Getting everyone off of a credit card payment is good for the city and good for them, although basically like the points, but so I think a drive to do more ACH signups is definitely something we've all talked about, and then even some incentivizing to get those ACH signs.

I did it when I moved here 10 years ago, but I quite frankly don't think I looked it up, looked at a bill in the last day.

And also it takes away, you know, when we get their new credit cards, trying to remember to go and have data, and then putting in the new expression, it totally removes the stress of that.

Um, one of the polls I had or I've been talking with the residences the paper was silly screen.

You don't have to worry about your mail being returned.

So when I receive return mail, I do an outreach call to each of our customers and give them the option.

You know, would you like to think you guys like to eat the point address?

But those are all incentives to go KMS or auto pay.

Okay, monthly shutoffs.

Uh kind of our process that we go through here is first somebody will receive a pass due notice, those are issued at the beginning of the month that would usually go out a letter.

They also receive uh a phone call that could be both automated, and if somebody is gauging and it's going out a couple of years shut off, Amy at the beginning of the month will identify it and try and reach out via email or call to let them know hey, you're you're getting to the shutoff point.

Can we can we work on a plan?

Um, there's about 260 customers a month that average this the past two notice.

I would just kind of go back and be like, again, this isn't all people that can't pay the bill, it's just some people that they like to do that, it's a smaller amount, but I feel it's um relevant to include that in that number.

Uh next would be door hangar notices, and these are issued on the third Tuesday of the month, two days prior to shutoff.

This is specific in the code in a couple weeks.

So I'm going to come back and we're going to talk about updating the code language to kind of get us a little uh flexibility on that.

But this is um public works gets a physical door hanger that we put on that then say you have 48 hours to call and make full payment.

Um there will be shutoff.

This is average 75 residents per month that get in the door hanger status.

Finally, on the third Thursday of every month, we uh go to shutoffs.

For us, shutoffs occur after 75 days past due.

So you've gone past two months of non-payment, and then a number that are 15 days into the next billing cycle.

We'll get into kind of where that ranks with other cities.

Um, kind of our size, but I just wanted to point that.

Well, I guess I don't hear that.

Uh other cities in the region do 45 to 60 days.

Um we what our thing is we want to intend for customers to have a payment plan and to have uh communicate at least with us.

We just no communication and no payment is what we're trying to avoid.

Um, and we average about 12 uh shutoffs per month, which to me is exceptional that we're going from 216 to 12, and all of that is due to AB indication that she's um with the customers who require basic shutoff.

And this was in the staff report, but we um we also when we make discretionary calls, we don't do shutoffs at the separate uh holidays, and we didn't do shutoffs in August when they're we were in the middle of the heat wave.

So that that week would have been those 100 plus degree temperatures.

We can make those discretionary calls not to do clubs.

So, how do we assist customers and past student notes?

One, Amy and I, as we were writing this.

Our goal is we want to set customers up for success.

Like we want this, we want to be a partner with them and work with them.

There's amy feels a ton of calls on people that for variety of issues can't make payment, struggling with payment, something like that.

And her background is she came from Providence uh hospital and she is gifted at having hard conversations with people and to frame it in a way to uh with empathy, compassion, understanding that hey, you know, things come up, let's work you through this, let's work on a plan, let's communicate.

So that's big kudos to her for that first step.

Um ways that we try and reduce uh past due notices again.

We mail phone calls, uh we'd set up payment arrangements and we use a three-month payment repayment plan.

So if your bill is a thousand dollars, we're trying to get you at 33 per month.

We kind of get you back whole in the three-month gap and then move forward from there.

If you're unable to make a payment, we'll direct you to external resources or partners that we have.

And then also we educate them on the utility assistance program.

So, first up, we want to talk about the utility assistance program.

Um, these are offered to single family resident residential customers for this time.

Don't offer it to multifamily apartments and commercials.

The exception of that is the hillside development, which is run by the housing authority.

The other one is the 64 apartments that are uh done through North Maine complex, and those are on subsidized housing.

So those have been set up in the past that the whole complex because of uh how they're set up, it's done on low income.

And that doesn't apply to Northwest Housing.

No, we don't apply that to them.

No.

Why are they different?

I don't know specifically.

Are they subsidized how we should pay for that?

That's 28 units plus their shelving people.

One of many, uh yes, yeah, we would love to perform.

All right, it's fine.

Okay, that's all we need more time to be able to do that.

Yeah.

It comes down to when these were set up.

And at that time, maybe we didn't ask that question or that cost of roads.

So Amy's currently going through and doing an audit of the whole city trying to make sure that everything is is set up correctly going forward.

Um next is kind of this was all in the staff report, but just a reminder for our income thresholds.

We use, I believe the HUD uh model, and those are outlined here.

When we go through the application process, we ask for an application of federal tax return, and we're asking for all occupants receiving income in the residence.

So if there's four people living in the residence and there's three people who are receiving income, you look at the income of all three folks who are um sit receiving income.

The waivers that we give uh for the low income assistance program or an outline that are private program waivers, uh we waive the base water charge for water.

We charge 15% of the wastewater fee, 15% of the storm water fee, and we're waiving 100% of the SSMP and safety fees, and we're also uh waiving the seven dollar upcoming public safety that was recently.

Council president, did you have a question?

Yeah, I guess two things that I'm thinking about here.

What would it look like to adopt a policy more broadly as we have more income restricted units coming into the market to be able to capture this?

I think about like we've got short stack Milwaukee, sousing alternatively, things that aren't captured.

Is there some broad policy we could set as opposed to identifying things individually?

I think um it's definitely something we can look into.

I mean, I think the reason Hillside and North Maine, though those 64 is their income restricted, and there's like there's there's deep restrictions or covenants around that.

So that anything that trip ties it to that, which is why I'm surprised on Walsh Commons too, why that one came there.

I think that's that's definitely doable, and that becomes maybe part of the water meter hookup process when that is a box to check.

Is this is this income restricted housing check?

The challenge with multifamily, we've talked about this a lot in some previous budget conversations in multifamily where it's not necessarily income restricted, is some of those all the utilities are being paid by the landlord.

Some of the units have individual meters, some don't.

So it's very hard to write kind of a uniform policy.

But I think I think the income restriction of the actual unit is the or of the development is the way to go to do something like you're talking about.

Yeah.

Well, and the middle housing, and this is talking about multifamily middle housing is going to be treated like single family for purposes.

Right?

It sh it should be, but um, I guess are there any middle housing developments like a tonnage cluster where you would have if they're not individually divided where you would have a single peer?

Oh most of them have single plus they are looking to individually divide sell something, they'll have some sort of meter manual that would but we're generally single maker.

And would that be categorized as a multifamily or residential customer?

Oh, multi-cam.

So short stock Milwaukee would be a multiple family customer.

Well, I think it's short.

I can't first talk anyway as a is the land trust model.

So I'm not sure if they've been land division if they have separate meters or if they have a single yeah, I mean it really depends on the individual development still, whether attendance if they're looking sold off units to individuals.

It's not as I think about this more.

We've got short stack, we've got sparosite going to be talking about land banking, which applies there will be other developments like this, and so I do think as we talk about our utility code, or I don't know if it has to be a formal policy to be about some general directive to staff to try and find these exceptions and add them off the program.

But I do think a systematic way that we address these available.

I think that's great.

And I think we we can look at the the meeting.

I think it's the meter hookup process that for triggering it with that since I just had to do one, my own development.

I'm very familiar with that.

All right.

Yeah, go ahead and note this.

Um, I timely met with a person today who was complaining a little bit about utility assistance program.

She lives with eight people in her household, most of which are low income.

I think all of which are low income, and was wondering why we don't extend out of benefits past just report personal household.

Um what would that look like necessarily?

This the we do just on the website, it shows four.

Okay.

The income view more, and it directs them directly to uh and list down coffee care happening.

Yeah, um, I think it goes all the way to like eight or ten.

Um probably like add some like just 13.

So it's not restricted to I'll have them then follow up you.

I think that that maybe maybe it's the way that it was printed on the website.

It specifically said what's such a challenge because we've got eight people, so we don't qualify for your utility program.

So let's look at that.

So that's awful.

I'll have a follow-up.

How does that work?

But I mean, you look at that scrape.

So the account has to show that they're in the public upset.

So then they put those eight people have independents of that.

So on the application, it requests everybody within the household, and then it asks, are you working?

Do you receive the income or no income?

Um, so anyone within the household ever since income, we would request curve of income because it goes off the household annual pricing.

So the federal tax returns for filing correct.

Good question.

All right, so kind of uh divided this into two parts for sources that we provide for financial support, our external partners.

One is St.

Vincent Depal.

The city currently budgets $7,000, $7,000 annually to help with economic relief of that.

So if somebody is facing a shutoff status, we direct them to St.

Vincent DePaul.

The advantage of that is it removes the city from making the judgment of how to allocate those funds.

St.

Vincent the Paul is staffed and has the administration to really work with people and find out you know what the need is and how they can help.

So that's one partner we direct them to.

Another uh new one is Clackmas County Utility Support.

This is a one-time assistance for those in emergency need and facing shutoff.

Um side note, I read in Oregon Live recently that the state set aside funds for utility relief.

I don't know if that's going to trickle down to the county and this fund, but I just realized that at the state level they recognize that utility assistance is a need, and possibly that they partner with the county to facilitate funds through that.

The other option that we have is 21 and United Way, and that's a collaboration.

Uh they work with outside multiple different funding sources and kind of act as an umbrella to provide sources for everybody.

So they're kind of looking outside with a lot of different partners who have funding, and then uh they're getting folks in P who are need assistance to be able to administer that and disperse it.

One awesome thing I just wanted to highlight is uh one of our employees, Maddie Doka, her mother-in-law works uh work united way, and she came in one day and said, Hey, my mother-in-law, there's tools and avenues that we can help, and gave us her information, and we've been able to reach out to her directly, and it's a direct line of communication that when people are in the we can direct them to her mother law, and she's been able to help that way.

So it just streams lines the process and is huge benefit to us.

So all the external partners that's outside of funding sources that are for the most part um dollars that don't impact the utility itself.

We also have an internal resource, and that's called the utility assistance hardship budget.

And we uh we budget five thousand dollars per year for this, and this is for hardship and links and different adjustments like that, and that's usually determined by Emma and my's determination.

So I'm trying to think back on a couple of times that we've done it, but there's been severe financial hardships where people are in crisis and we kind of make that call.

And I mean, I don't take that lightly, and I try and use those funds to the best that we can.

We we budget the 5,000 for it.

That's an expense to the terminal utility fund.

Um so we're kind of um it's an expense to all of the ratepayers.

So we don't take it lightly, but we use that when needed.

People are severe hardship, or there's huge leaks that adjust that's all.

And just to clarify, these resources, you don't have to be enrolled in our UAP to get access to these.

If someone is having lost their job, and so they're not enrolled in our our utility assistance program, but they're in a cute moment of the need.

Those are the types of things that when uh Amy's doing her outreach, she can act with these partners.

This is sort of the as needed resources.

And so the 5,000 internal and the 7,000 at St.

Mrs.

Paul.

I remember when we set that up in COVID, I think.

Um, we probably put more into it back during that time, but um I assume those get used up.

How early in the year did they get the United Way does a good job of sending us a report showing how they're used?

Um during COVID, they went fast.

Now I think it's I would say nine to 12 months, but that's just a pure estimate.

Um you think they're lasting most of the year?

It is for now.

And you think that I mean, that was one of the questions I wrote down for myself after the packet is like does the is the $7,000 to say that Santa Paula really meaningful, and is it you know serving somebody who isn't otherwise getting served, I guess.

I think they're saying yes, it's very cool.

Yeah, I would agree.

Yeah, sorry for the white slide on this, but I was trying to highlight um a little bit more.

What we wanted to know is what other cities are doing, how is Milwaukee in comparison?

And we looked at other cities our size of population and number of customers, and Judy did a great job of reaching out to other cities to collect this information, and I kind of put Milwaukee at the top of what we're doing, and you can kind of see what others are doing.

And the big thing I would highlight is uh towards the end, the percentage of customers receiving assistance.

We're doing fairly well compared to the region, if not average.

Uh we're at 2%.

Um I we I found it interesting.

Other places, Clackmas Riverwater don't provide any program, they just uh go uh have residents go through St.

Vincent DePaul, but we're kind of on par with what other cities are doing for our size.

Um also to look at the required documents.

We ask for the federal tax returns, other people ask for bank statements, social security statements, other things.

We don't go to that level tax return, it's it's good for us.

Um in our UAP process, we go through annually and verify income.

So we used to do this on an annual basis, but over COVID we got away from that.

And this year was the first year that we got back to doing it on an annual basis, and we have everybody just reapply every year to make sure that they're meeting the income requirements.

Um things change.

Um sometimes, you know, people were on unemployment and now times are better, and they've been able to get off of that.

It just helps us um keep the integrity of the program and uh target those residents that are in need that need the UAB assistance.

Um another thing I kind of found interesting was like us, we go and tigered.

I discovered they have a partnership that they work together, so they have 105,000 uh customers, and they don't offer much in uh assistance.

I think part of that is because it's a um it's an administrative uh ask to kind of do all this, but we in Milwaukee kind of make that commitment to do this.

So I think the two percent is good.

Um I know it's only 127 people, and we're trying to target as many as we can, but um I think we're on par with with everybody else.

My last slide, and then we'll shut up, is um different things to impact utility rates, and one thing is uh we have an outside consultant that I'm sure you all know uh that goes out and does a rate study that works with Peter, and they're looking out five to ten years on the impacts of all of these different factors and how they're gonna impact the rates going to considering our infrastructure needs, our resource needs, um, and all these different tools.

I used to sit on the C UAB at the time.

I was the C UAC 10-15 years ago, and I remember on a yearly basis that bringing it to us, and we would talk about different types of rate scenarios.

So we want to go on a tier scenario, we want to go on a flat rate scenario, and kind of looking at like what that would look like.

There was always like a lot of different input and things, and I always found it very uh informative.

But I know that we've talked, there's been talk about how we structure our rates, and I'm just bringing that up is like we're trying to look at this as a two to ten year process into the future.

So um that's kind of the avenue that we use for that.

Another thing I wanted to point out is the cost of the reduced rates for the utility assistance program, or then incorporated into those rates into that study, and then they're allocated out to the remaining customer base.

Um, so there is a cost of subsidizing that, which I feel is totally a benefit, but I just wanted to point that out.

And then finally, there's uh currently we provide a low income use this discount rate, a five-dollar discount if you use less than three CCF uh amount of water per month.

That's already in our um that's a discount in our base fee that we need uh incorporated into our administrative type of tools that we already have.

So as we're talking about utility rates, I'm just very guarded on the administrative lift versus the reduced rates, and how do we do that efficiently and effectively?

Um so kind of with that, I've way too long thrown a lot out you.

So I was just opening this up to any questions you guys have of Amy and um let us know.

But um, yeah, I question is uh like the funds numbers when we create our programs.

Are we bound by those numbers?

Because when you look at uh in the family four use of the chart that's on the website, I think that's that's putting off the media become a family four of 124,000.

Well, in Milwaukee, it's about 40,000 less than that.

So I feel like if we apply those metrics to what our uh median household income is, we probably get a lot more people in that when you also look at what the home sales prices have been in the last 12 months, about 519,000 somewhere on there.

You look at the people on the one, two, three, four, then you look at okay.

Well, what is somebody with an 80,000 dollar income affording Milwaukee as the homeowner?

And is that a price point that doesn't exist?

This is only for homeowners, right?

So we need to be able to assuming that we need to be able to book those numbers as our socioeconomic status of the city.

So that changes, right?

Because I don't think we're encompassing the same group of people we once may have thought we were in that might be higher numbers at all.

And I think I think it's a good point, counselor.

I think that this table and credit to Jim E really helped put this this research together.

It shows you I don't there's no statute that's we have to use the HUD guidelines, and you can see here that that's other cities have made different choices, like Gresham is using 50% of Oregon's current union income or less.

But I could read that.

But I think what is what's interesting to me, because I agree with you that we're low on enrollment.

But what I found interesting is I don't think it's a Milwaukee unique challenge when you see these numbers.

So I think that's a question, that's a policy question for you all to give us direction on.

And that kind of threshold is something we can explore.

There will be a cost the more people you get enrolled in that.

One one thing, if I may, um that you might find helpful is um some of the surrounding cities, they do require the utility account to be in the homeowner's theme, and then the homeowner is responsible for basically covering the weak water garbage sewer, and they collect from the resident.

One way that Milwaukee is different is that we allow the renter to set up the account in their name.

So even though it might be a home that's 500,000, that doesn't mean that the person living there that they purchased the home.

They may be renting home.

I can vouch to that.

And then as far as the Oregon State media, I actually pulled that because I was really curious how far off that is.

And I think that's where maybe the balance comes in.

So it's not such a huge jump from who's getting, right?

Like you could lower that on one side, it's the individual people, right?

But then you can increase it where it's a family of four or five or six people.

That's probably where you're gonna keep that one is within that threshold.

So maybe that's where the balance of that is.

I mean, when you get the 75 shutoffs uh uh 75 uh Dorian numbers, um, and people start calling you, how often are they eligible?

So I would say that's usually the time that I'm also, I mean, we have several ways that we're communicating about the program on the back of the bills, you know, and when online, um you know, I encourage everybody that's on that shutoff list, but believe it or not, a lot of them don't qualify.

Um and it's not always because our income limits are so restricted.

Um, it's just how they're budgeting their money and how they're allocating um their finances.

Um so I I think I was surprised when I started working here that um when I would talk to customers that were past due, right?

Many were like, no, the utility, because I would first bring out the utility assistance, thinking that's the direction they want to go.

Um, but I would say probably maybe not the majority.

There is a portion of residents that aren't looking to apply for utility assistance.

Um, so it's important to know that in those numbers, that doesn't encompass all of the lower income brackets.

Well, yeah, I mean, you guys made the point that some people just don't pay, want to pay quarterly.

So I get that.

But I mean the 62,000 for a family of more does not seem really high to me.

I mean, that seems kind of a reasonable threshold, especially when you look at the other cities.

Um, but we know from you know the Alice work that the FAF did that um you know, we've got you know 30 to 40 percent of Milwaukee in that um's threshold.

If we suddenly had 30% of Milwaukee qualifying for this, then we would be really raising everyone else's rights.

That's it.

Um people took advantage of it, so yeah, because totally we offer it now to it's been this way for how many years and how many people aren't doing so can't really say that necessarily because you don't really know what role that would be.

No, no, no.

I'm just saying if you're just suddenly we decided to change and measure the allowed, you know.

I don't I mean, I don't want that measure would be take some study, but um the allowed you know 30% of Milwaukee to be eligible.

Um what would the to the point Michael made earlier?

What would that do for the ship?

I do wonder.

So if you look at the HUD numbers, it looks like we use the very low 50% numbers, but HUD also provides a low income 80% number where a family of four would be making 99,000, which the council of our body is covers bands that already are in price sale block.

Um and I just would be curious.

Well, and I think the question I have for you guys in our last uh affordability check in, um, we kind of clarify the direction was the first step you want us to take is increase awareness and education about the current UAP and see what that does to our enrollment before we look at deepening discounts or expanding access.

But if that direction changes, let us know.

But I think I think you know, right now what we've kind of heard is first see are we constructing everyone that qualifies under the current thresholds?

Um, if you'd like to give us a different direction out of this, we we can hear it.

I mean, what I I think of this is three choices that we have.

There's one expanding the power people who are already eligible to critics.

Two is deepening the discounts for the people who are already eligible, and three is expanding the eligibility.

Yeah, I would prioritize that.

I think making sure people who are already eligible are signed for this program.

Yeah, for that whole I would say what I would put as priority two is expanding eligibility.

I think that we have this like prices of affordability that touches um, I do use a lot, um, that a price of affordability that touches a lot of households at low income thresholds according to the HUD, not just very low and extremely low.

So I want to see expanded and last I would say deep those thresholds, but I think it's what people say, and maybe it's moved to say you'll say these numbers before, so that changes into which numbers, the the numbers that we're going up with.

Um because I always thought we were quite tied to them.

But if we I mean, if we're not there, policy choice, we don't necessarily need to deepen discounts, we could just use the NHI and ask it necessarily, it just changes what the threshold is, which doesn't deepen the discount.

I just might encourage more people to join because you're going off the specific HISO.

I don't know if that would be a simpler route to go try to see as opposed to deepening basically.

I think the one P specific MHI would be interesting.

I think there'd be more of an administrative workload because right now we get the thresholds from HUD, we can apply those.

We would have to do the research into MHI annually, but not a not not doable.

I think I'm just trying to kind of see what as a prior affordability goal, kind of what the direction is of what you I like how you did post present what your priorities are so that we know we're ticking those, we're advancing those.

So I want to do I what was yours in person.

I said, so to your point of like what threshold we use, I think we want to expand it.

That low income threshold by the HUD is a low, we're not recreating what we're numbers of the HUD for bots.

I would say my first goal would be making sure that everyone is eligible.

Current thresholds, yeah, current thresholds or second priority would be expanding it to low 80% margin set by the HUD, and third would be keeping the discounts.

And I don't know where uh I would prefer to staff what the costs of each of those steps would be and what is feasible uh or the trade-offs of each step.

Um but I think that that would be the order in which I would.

Yeah, I uh I I think the order that we laid out will make sense.

I would tell you that I don't think that uh I'd be cautious about proceeding along those three lines of parallel.

I think they're sequential, and that we give this what would the direction we've already given, give this some time to see what the results are before we go to those next steps.

And I agree, I think that uh once we sort of have you know got out all of the juice that we can out of that piece of fruit, then we would step back and say, do we want to adjust this to the real uh economic factors of affecting Milwaukee?

Uh and that would be you know, step two.

Um I think it needs to be sequential because we really don't know the impacts until it's really or straight.

So I would just uh uh be a proponent of a of a sequential approach rather than parallel approach.

I don't know.

Um for that um a resident that is on the tortilly assistance program versus one that it's not, it's about a 50 percent.

Um approximately 50% reduction, and you can open the utility bill.

So one thing to think about is as we increase those numbers.

Um they're still going into be funding for the infrastructures, and uh just being mindful of that additional funding over.

Well, you can also reduce the number of discounts that has the income.

So you start with the lower ending of all those discounts that has the income because closer to the threshold is some of the disco start falling off.

So you don't you're eligible for all of them, but you still have several of them as they increases so that way you don't have it back till 76 dollars a month on this amount of users, right?

So like a tier assistance program.

Yeah, I guess it'd be interesting to hear from you guys what the structural burden of that would be.

I think that could be pretty burdensome.

But I mean, I guess if you just did it once a year, if you just did it as part of your once in your check in, then maybe even the base of burden, but um yeah.

Um could I follow up something that kind of so nasty said?

I do I do think sequentially is a better approach than all at once.

I think it would be valuable for us to put into our forecaster or like goal for this affordability goal, a check-in point to say, okay, do we move on the sequence or do we double down or play our process?

And I guess related that you put out a notice in the pilot saying here's our low income program.

What sort of adoption did you see after that?

Like what is I guess if we were focusing on this first sequence of expanding involvement?

What works?

Like how's what we've done work in the past, or what are we trying?

So currently for utility assistance, at this point, yeah, um, probably the area I'm targeting most is the customers that I'm uh working with that past yeah.

The conversations that I'm having with someone needs to set up a payment arrangement because they're not able to pay their balance at all.

You know, what happened?

Was it just on the other side?

Um, is that you know, monthly payment dejection is because we're at work one month.

So that has been my target way, you know, to communicate to the customers just on our one-on-one conversations.

Um, because most of the residents that are needing help, um, I end up talking with them at some point during the month.

Um, like I said, it is on the back of the statements, it is on our website.

Um, we have an entire area on our utility assistance or utility billing page for utility assistance.

Um where else is garbage there.

I don't know if there's been pilot.

To Will's point, I think I know what you're saying is like how do we define success?

Yeah.

Okay.

And so, you know, that's going to require, you know, obviously some insight from Michael and A and everything like that.

And I think it's going to be, I don't think it's a it's a formula, but I think it requires some uh some some thought and we would rely on their insight and that kind of thing.

But I think it would be helpful if we did have what defines success if we achieved you know the first step uh in expanding the population that's using the existing program.

And I don't think it has to be perfect, but it has to be a goal or or maybe not a goal, but at least a you know a point that we're working to.

And do you want to have that discussion now?

No, or are you saying we want to pay to discuss them to help us come over with that?

And we do we we we we've talked about this a bit in our goal action plan of the metrics on this one.

I think it's a challenging one to put it because success is also people moving off of a utility assistance program because that but we've heard you that you want to know what the proportion should be.

I've explained it's a little challenging because you have to crosswise your uh tenure, your income, your family size, but we can do it, we can get you a target number that feels accurate and then go from what the 127 to that would be and see how we're chipping away at that proportion of our population that we think we could estimate would fall into this income bracket, is easy for it's good.

I would say looming over all of this, what makes me kind of uncomfortable is the fact that Amy is connecting if people can't pay their bills.

We don't have a low-income program, but like stuff like that, they're not eligible for the program.

And I guess that's where I'm trying to think like.

And I do I hear you.

I do think we can also share Chair Anmai or your earlier question, utilization data on our external resources because we do we do share same pets at DePaul, United Way 211, and we have the hardship fund.

Paul, United Way 211, and we have the hardship fund.

So those are both like all places that we can also if someone doesn't apply, it doesn't follow but you maybe can assist them to us.

Something to keep in mind too after COVID, um the Clarkness count we receive a federal fund.

I think it was federal, but a grant to help after COVID, a lot of the accounts has to were high.

And the program was to pay off everything in full, and then I think the pay amount pay them ahead of like one or two months ahead.

And that really helped City and us bring the past two notices down.

I don't know what it is on the top of my head.

I could find that information, but that coming out of COVID, it was it was rough, but that gave the city kind of a kind of pretty clean slate.

And then also since Amy's been here, she's really worked hard on working these numbers down.

And to me, it there are past due uh accounts, but it's not um it's not a huge concern.

Um I don't know if that's the words I should use, but um that program really helped.

And there are there are resonance that would probably qualify, but it does require a certain level of cooperation where we need them to throw the application we need them to provide the documentation while we can encourage that.

Um sometimes that can be part of uh the concern as well.

Judy had a wonderful idea, you know, moving forward maybe during our next renewable process.

We hold a couple workshops for people that might be challenged using our computers to come in and so they're like for active things we have in mind.

I think that's a really great idea, and I think that'd be an awesome way to not only support people with sending them assistance, but also ACH sign ups, you know, just folks who might want some technical assistance and and again Amy and J are delight to deal with it.

Oh, you can do that.

I'll employ the uh they do the Tuesdays of the library, you can have you know Tuesday, yeah, or Thursdays or Fridays or whatever at the library and do that.

Um so I guess in terms of checking back and sort of terms of uh uh how long do we live when do we check back in and when do we have a program discussion?

So we just discussed uh we just had the update on this goal last week.

So it'd be first meeting in December or maybe December when we're due for then.

I think it would be December, yes.

Or could be full.

So maybe that's a good time to check in on the and I would say, I mean, you know, you guys can also share the website and things like that.

You can also leave updates or I will use that social media.

Right a pilot article too, but some stuff.

Is the information already going out in um Jason's updates on Fridays?

I don't know if we've done a UAP specific uh folder, but I mean that goes out to all interested parties across all of the neighborhoods.

Yeah, and you have a lot of community leaders that are within that even a simple ask to help by the message definitely.

Yeah, I think that's a great idea, Mayor that's you know, we've got about three months then we'll we'll try some of these outreach strategies, we'll keep the thresholds where they are right now.

We can report back both on enrollment in that period and some harder data, like what what a target population we would estimate would be there.

Um should probably be discussing more ready to move to a strategy too, or what's it's yeah, yeah.

And I think the big piece of that has to be what are the impacts on everybody else.

Yes, if uh yeah, adjusting the number to it'll be 62,000 to 80,000.

Yeah, it'll be well timed because we'll get some rate design data and a conversation on the member budget committee.

Um, I'm just wondering sometimes qualitative data is really helpful as well, especially if you were um initiative.

So of the folks that you are talking to, would you exch uh explain to them about the program and the thresholds?

Are you hearing from a lot of them?

Like I don't I don't need that threshold.

What is that kind of conversation look like?

Is that that might be a good tell for us, you know, whether we need to make an adjustment short term?

Um, you know, I do hear that, but I would say that that's the majority of it.

Um I don't need that.

A lot of them are um multiple people within a household, and I everybody wants to provide their approval.

So it's more so within the home dynamic on who's comfortable sharing their income information, or you know, there's different family dynamics where maybe not everyone's pitching in on those.

So it's not always income based, but there's just an option.

That's a product.

Yeah, and that is too, you know, that is something I experienced on my previous job.

Um, and an insurance factor here as well.

There are people that are in that element that they can make and sneak, and they don't want to be pushed into telling like they need to be part of the program.

Um they they feel good about being ahead.

And I wonder a lot of credit to um Judy, Amy, and Gabriella are pushing coordinator who worked together on a review of the language that we have on the website related to this.

This did used to be called our low utility assistance program, and there was a very intentional decision to remove that moniker again to avoid stigma or concerns and just make it a more inclusive um opportunity for drugs to feel comfortable calling that's the applications are different, different.

So we're reaching out that way, too.

So is it too much to know in the next when would you guys come back?

Well, actually, what what are the so just so I'm clear?

What are the current enrollment papers efforts that we're looking at?

Do we know what those are?

I'm kind of so when I when I've taken notes on enlisted office, including um information of LERV in the uh neighborhood for any neighborhood update.

We can do another um uh kind of notice in the pilot.

Um we it we I believe we have information on this in mail bills, is that correct?

So it's already on the back of the same room, and then we turn that over because that's how they don't have pay, we're paying so it's including impacts in there.

I do think having one of these uh trying all these outreach events and seeing how it goes, maybe that's what we can have.

We can add to the pilot.

Um, those we review at the library.

Um and then social media, and I think we'd also ask for you guys to help in spreading the message through social media as well.

So I think though we can try that, try that concerted push for these three months, um, and come back in December with an update on how that's worked out.

So is it too much to because I do believe uh counsel does probably the squad shall order?

But it can be find out what the administrative workload is being in that time would it exceed social or is that too is that too much?

Just so like a several Wikipedia, at least even see if that's feasible.

So by administrative load, I think, or do you mean like the cost, the the cost the the impact on rates for other rate payers?

No, I'm just talking about like staff time.

What would this like we'd be able to find out on the next now, but staff time what the administrative impact will be for expanding the threshold?

Yeah, I and I I correct me if I'm wrong.

I think the staff impact is actually the minimal part.

I think the bigger impact is the the financial impact.

So if you expand the threshold.

I mean, I think it'd be very honestly.

I think all that's change.

I guess I guess this is a question.

If we're doing the low hunt ones that Will is talking about already calculated, published by the Fed's minimal to no impact on staff, maybe more calls and and applications to process, but no, I mean it's the same same steps because it's the same numbers to the the suggestion you had of calculating a Milwaukee average household income or state or state.

Yeah, we could do some, we can put some some math together on kind of what the steps would have to be there, what the administrative impact would be.

I would suggest to like May is kind of the time that we're going through and doing these renewables.

So between now and May, we can have those discussions on where you would want to send the that number or what's one of those for it.

No, I think now is the time to have that conversation for next year.

That's a really good point, Mike, because we also have to update the fee schedule in May.

So we kind of have any change to be in the qualification also happening in that.

But we can definitely start that kind of at least you know, NAC and math of those steps too.

I think we might also be able to have our rate consulting so we do this sensitivity something.

So that's something they can fit in.

You mentioned a change in the language when the website.

What would that do for things?

I think we could ask for bringing that in.

I think it tell me if I'm completely wrong, but you're trying to look for a web or a magnitude about what it's gonna be the cost to go to the expanded phase.

Right, just to see if it's a good step.

Yeah, what it take off.

In other words, so that we could kind of look at that and not wait another three months, right?

But also not get ahead of ourselves to run it to character.

So it's just helping us make informed decisions even after that.

I couldn't say if any of it swiss cheesy, yeah.

I I think there's a lot of gross assumptions that figure out participation.

Like I mean, honestly, like when we plug it those HUD thresholds next weight and based on percentages, right?

Yeah, so we'll see what we can do.

We'll see what we can bring into that hot number discussion.

Okay.

Yeah, this has been very good.

Thank you.

There's a lot of you for having you.

There's still a lot of work to go, but I feel like with the explanation presentation of the last two, at least the last two weeks.

It's made days.

It might have been up to some and and I have one eighty.

I have one amazing Judy too, but I've got one.

So don't be shocked also to the budget process if you hear me asking for a little more support for you the more uh robust.

We make our need to look at you're saying it's bad.

She looks till 7 p.m.

Sandy.

So we will have an aggressive action.

She says late.

Oh, my life so thank you guys.

Yeah.

Okay, maybe we'll move on to our second item, which is RCIP.

Yeah, it's something that you've got it.

All right, we got a lot of slides to get through.

I'm gonna do as best I can.

We got a lot of background.

So I did a series.

I also have the class we've got some prioritization that we want to go over, and then we got a little bit we want to talk about uh a lot game.

So it's about 23 slides.

However, I would say we got a couple that'll go pretty quick.

Okay.

First of all, we've got some celebration to do.

Oh, it is complete.

Right now we're working on punching this and close out.

So all bad items, all work um is done, and literally we're finalizing it and closing the project.

So my first project when I literally started here eight years ago.

It looks beautiful, it looks great, which is fantastic.

Concordated, awesome dog really work through that railroad.

So it'll be ready for this uh next winter, which is fantastic.

Um we're gonna pull the plug um at Harrison, so then it'll flow instead through um Harrison um down Don't Creek, it'll actually go over Rosswell.

So next, Washington area provements.

Right now we are uh basically doing walkthrough also.

We have plantings happening in September, and then we're looking at doing a celebration at the park in October, celebrating this project.

How finished are all the like paintings that you're doing on the street?

Uh most of the um it should be done, it should be um done as far as all I'd have to check in with Jas if they have anything last minute, but we should be on punch list, so all the paintings should be in all the markings in.

Okay, that sounds good.

I only ask for this and kind of the next project too.

Since this is on our new TSP as one of our neighborhood bikeways with you in the future in a project like this as heroes or potentially, yes.

Okay.

So yeah, this was in design and construction before our TSP, right?

So there's potential other little things we may want to do now that that's kind of evolved.

Yep.

Um, since then.

So true.

It's mostly a question for the future, but slightly I threw it out there to see if it's that I think we're not, but that's not good.

Um, so yeah, we were hoping to be done by the end of October.

We're gonna meet that deadline.

So super excited about that.

Our malls north, they're working on punch lists and finishing it out.

So another one.

Um, I do a walkthrough next week to see um all the improvements and that shared road concept and how that's working.

I think the neat part is there's plenty of space for people to park, which is fantastic, and then the roadway is clear.

That's for bikes, vehicles, and pedestrians walk in.

Um right now they're um finishing up striping and things like that.

So that's where we're at.

And will those roads have share rows?

Yes, yes, they will.

Okay, we did it.

We did eight miles, eight and a half miles of uh grind and inlay and slurry steel this year.

And I can say it was a little, it was definitely a little tough because it all happened at the exact same time.

Even with our malt north, we were paving all three projects at the same time, but we have got through it, um, which is fantastic.

Here's where I need to prep you.

Next year we are not putting out a slurry seal or a grant project.

And the reason for that is we're creating a five-year plan.

And we're creating that five-year plan so we know what's happening each year, and so the whole team and all the divisions have the ability to go out and make sure their work is done before that road needs to be paved.

So if there's any small water work, um stormwater work, wastewater work that we're getting those things done ahead of time before we come and pay.

And so this is the first time we're actually gonna have this nice five-year program that's set up so we know what's happening, and when residents call in, we can tell them here's the plan.

Here's where your streets can be paved.

Yes.

Sorry, I didn't take around.

You can go later.

Where or which which projects are or kind of where are the roads that are in different maintenance that we might see um worsen during this one year reprieve with paving and slurry school?

We don't actually have a program right now.

We've been just kind of putting this together every year.

So every road will worsen over the next year.

Well, I guess as far as that goes.

I'm sure, yes, that's true, because they all dig right as we drive over them.

But yeah, I guess what I'm wondering is you know what else was on the list as like I don't have a list.

Okay, like so we are gathering data.

We are updating our street saver program right now.

We've got um a consultant helping us put that together to give us better data so we can create the list of that we all need.

Were there any streets though, Jen?

That I mean doesn't say more anecdotally rather than data driven, but just like that you can like, I wish we're gonna have that this year, it's really in bad shape.

I know it's in bad shape, and we're not gonna get to it for two years.

So we collected, yeah, we are collecting data right now to get input from the community.

Um, but those haven't been analyzed as far as like what level they're at.

That still takes that time to go out.

So we're still gonna take that information and put that in for our five-year program.

Okay.

I I think the other thing too.

So like the work that we've done over the last five, six years with the street maintenance, the overlays of the slurry sales.

We've we've targeted the those that that are most appropriate for that type of treatment.

So there's still some that are out there, uh, but like we've we hit the bulk of them.

So we don't want to be we don't necessarily want to put down slurry sale like the paid.

It has to be it has to be in a certain condition.

Uh the overlay, the grind or inlay.

Um some pavements are have deteriorated to the point where that's not necessarily the appropriate treatment.

So there's there's some additional work.

There are dark places out there.

We have other projects coming up that will you'll see paid occurring as part of like Harvey King Road King Road.

Right.

Those are those are those still will be paid next year.

So we will have something that gets paid next year.

We're just not gonna put a slurry seal program out or a grant and like so I can build this program and be pretty solid about it and make sure it's funded, right?

Like that's the other piece of it.

Um, I do feel like you've really the last two or three years, you've really stepped up how much it's done each year.

And and I I do see the results around town.

I guess I to the point that people may that there are, and we've heard this before, there are some roads that are too far gone for grind.

Like, do we have a sense of how many miles of roads we have?

You will get an update when I get my five-year program in place.

So that's information we're gonna be evaluating.

I would like to say though, there's a few roads that we did that didn't have a ton of asphalt on it when we grind it this year, but the base was still solid, and so we paid them anyways, and I still think we're gonna, so we didn't have to do extra repairs on them in order to pay.

So we've got some good solid base on some of these roads because they've been, I think, you know, compacted fairly well and driven over for the last 30, 50 years that um we you know now put nice payment over them as far as it goes, but they don't have completely the four-inch.

But um so you're saying more roads can probably be fine and then lay treatment than what you're more of them had.

You know, two.

So that's where this program will give us an opportunity to look at that a little better instead of just saying, because right now I just I haven't got the capacity to be like, hey, we're grinding and we're angry and that's it.

Like I don't have any other, I don't have time to put together what other else does this road need, instead of being able to say, hey, this road needs a three-inch, this road could use only two inch.

This road needs slurry seal.

We have updated most of the city with slurry seal.

We're to a point where we probably actually don't have enough roads to put out next year for a slurry seal because we have offered for the last like four years, which is fine.

We need some decent here, yes.

Um that's old school.

Jen, am I I don't want to read too much of this.

Is there already is one of the reasons for taking this sort of year high this is to not only define the road program but the other public works program so that you get that work that you know goes in around under the the paved roads and get those fixed before you come in and pay them so you don't tear up your new painting.

Is that part of this?

Um I mean, really it's because I mean our existing CM SSMP program doesn't have residential in it, right?

It is is designed to basically maintain our collectors and our alteriors and but our local roads are failing.

And so really I was like, I I we I want to get pull that together and really make sure we're hitting those local roads.

Um they're getting that extra.

Yeah, I I I think there is some of that percent.

There are also, I think it's managing the financial resources that we have.

So we if instead of doing a five hundred thousand dollar overlay project by skipping here, we can make a little bit more and have a larger project that is more expensive.

So and and with the you know, the the cost per lane model is cheaper that way.

Yeah, we got a great price.

Uh probably our best price, yeah.

This year budgeted at 2.7 million, but it didn't at 1.2.

But one wow.

Yeah, but one other thing.

I was just gonna say though, too, is like slurry sale.

It can be challenging, I think on the contractor that that we end up with.

Like we've we've worked with two contractors, I think, since I've been here.

Yeah.

Uh one has real has performed well, and the others sometimes it's it's been a little bit challenging with the quality of the work that they have.

So with the slurry seal, we also go out with a joint uh solicitation with Hillsborough.

We may choose not to do that, so we have a little more flexibility, how can we hire?

Um I still strongly that in our best value procurement method and be able to qualify contractors, um, and you know, get a big price.

So that has been absent.

Um will the counselor or will the individual loves this?

I think so much that I've seen on a TSD for like our car structure, frankly, we have a lot of dark stuff that works great.

What people want to see is maintained properly.

This gets at a lot of those concerns.

Now, to be will the counselors a voice for the people that hear from.

I've heard a lot of people in my neighborhood around 30th, 31st, 32nd complain about the like materials of the slurry seal.

They have said that it's like this is beyond me, but they said it was too hot and the materials congeal a funny way, and then it just like how much this year, uh-huh, not last year, right?

This year, yeah.

Totally different contractor, yeah.

Yeah, we would I would agree with that assessment as well.

Is there something that not such as well?

Okay, is there I guess to go back to my neighbors?

Is there something that I can say about is this just kind of it is what it is and it's better than it was, or is there something that will happen to the roads that they change over time, or is there like uh well they'll get swept and they'll get cleaned as far as that goes, and it'll pick up some debris if there's some uh slopping off of the um slurry seal.

Um I do find that this contractor has slightly different kind of biome mix than the other one, and I prefer the other ones more so and how it seals in with that.

Um really warm and I was hoping that that would help seal it even better, but I'm wondering if that had a negative effect on actually putting it down because yeah, you know, it was so hot when they were doing it, and they just kept working to it.

I forgot spectors.

I was like, oh my god, are you okay?

Yeah, one question the mayor asked me, um, Jen is you know, with I think in the island station in particular with the heat, this contractor remove the barriers probably a little sooner than have is that are we gonna get kind of live with that or are they gonna do a new repair of you know some of the tired tracks and treads that have um I'm gonna be looking into it as far as it goes so that would go into like a bunch list item and we'll see if that is I may dot pay.

I mean, like there might be a few options there, but I think we haven't gone through that just yet.

There's no like putting a roller over it to try it and smooth it out or anything like that at this point.

I mean, one of them is the asphalt using paper to help you know, re-end all the you know, heat up the asphalt and then slurry seal, you can't do that.

It's it's it's a you know emulsified as ball liquid that you know takes a little bit of time to cure and uh temperature and heat and how quickly we're remove people, you know, how quick you allow people to travel in it 10 packs locally the aesthetic.

I mean it's really more of a very thin sort of sealed code, you know, uh you know, water water infiltration, and but and also a very thin perspective that's not of large structural data.

And Jenna remind me for the how we bid these projects we all did.

Um there are some just like globs of slurry sealed or tools that you can do to like that uh so that would come through on a punch list type of deal.

Okay.

Is it helpful to take a picture and send it to you?

Or are you like, well, we do that at the batch list?

They walk every street.

Okay.

Every street.

I would say Chris is super detailed.

Like you don't want to be off of anything.

So that's the pull.

I was gonna say we got uh, you know, we have those really nice um manual covers that have the design.

Well, they clinch they're not the other big clumps of yeah, so they haven't come through and unclash list.

Yeah, um, I I believe they still have to come through and do markings still.

So they haven't done they have come by and restrict or put in stop bars and things like that.

So um, oh yeah, so that's where we're at and story still because it's not finalized, but it's definitely a complete question of payment.

Unification.

Yeah, that's not okay.

Any other questions on Stanley?

I don't know if you might see you.

Yeah, that was pretty simple.

It's the passive rally.

We're showing when we did the the above three room.

Right.

So again, we're in punchless um mode and getting ready to close out our standing tank, which is really exciting.

Um, so yeah, we'll be complete on the next probably month or two um with finalize watch lists, all those lovely things.

So we're excited.

Okay, Harvey Street, it is starting.

Contractor is submitted uh schedule.

We're looking at mid-October for construction.

Um, and that'll be happening as far as that goes.

So they will do utility first, and then we'll move um to the full park and things like that.

And this one you'll add share of party and share of and green paint through the intersections will happen at this point.

Okay, will the green paint go on?

I know one of the challenges that I've heard from people on my night is the green paint is like in the pedestrian area.

So if you're a bike to have dipped over to the side, will it go where the bikes have more?

Yes.

Um that sounds great.

Yeah.

Next week we're coming for uh award to Lannis and Lannis.

Um, and they will also look at starting in October as I've got a contract being done next fall.

Um, so it will move very quickly.

Now the positive thing about this is I got a lot of e-back painting numbers going, oh my gosh, when would the county's project took too long?

We're not looking at that at all.

We're gonna get in there and we're gonna get it done.

Um it'll it's also being about Atlanta Lannis pad the best quality um bail net.

And they also did Washington.

Yes, and our homework actually.

And Southwest Capital Highway or the really strong point about um this contractor is they are really great about communication and they work really hard with the community and like know what's happening.

Um they take it on they they take on that burden and it helps the staff so much that they're communicating frequently and often uh with residents, so uh and and also the schools and trim it are really great about oh my gosh, we gotta make sure that they know it's happening.

Two lane traffic will still be maintained most of the time, only during non-peak hours will they probably look down the one-linked slide on certain spots, so they're probably they're they're they're excited and they're getting ready to go.

So you'll see that on the agenda for consent next week.

We really south.

Um, I mean, waverly heights or reconfiguration.

So this was a jet project, and now that we've re orded, it's coming with the CIP group.

Josh, who's running basically Washington and our north will be taking over as project manager.

So the delay on this project has actually been easements.

So we're still trying to get those casements in place.

They're really those in place before we go off for construction.

Um, this is we had about half of the keys in place, and the other half were a little rough.

So that's where it just takes time whenever we have to do any kind of you know acquisition or get easements from community members, it adds back to the project.

So you guys I mean, does our staff handle easements or do we have somebody who does that for us?

We work usually with somebody um to write the easement, and sometimes it goes faster when we actually help administer that conversation with the owner.

Um, we just we're here, working right here, like, hey, let's have a meeting.

What's going on?

Like, how can we help you?

How can we move this?

When you have an outside source, sometimes it can take longer.

Because we heard in the context of Telog that Metro does the basements for some of these projects, but we're not using Metro.

We're not using Metro for this project at all.

We have a subconsultant on our consult team that helping us um actually draft those and put all the legal descriptions together.

I don't we don't do legal assumptions, so we do have at least that.

Um so yeah, that we go as soon as those you can start place.

Josh, the the documents are ready to be put on bonfire, so we can go out to bid as soon as that about this project is we are getting West funds from this.

So 33% budget costs the West is covering, and that is through their I and I program, which they would like to see us reduce 65% of our I and I by 2040.

The purpose of that is because we don't reduce our INI.

We sent more wastewater to Calog.

Tella is fully expanded.

There's no more room.

So if we oversize Tello, we then have to build a pump station to go to try cities.

If you think the pump station for hello is expensive, this one will be even more a lot more.

So how do you do you have?

I mean, we've talked about I and I for years and all of this.

Um when you do this project, will we know how much it reduced I and I?

We're gonna do two projects.

So there's an upcoming project that's a lining project throughout the city.

It's about a million dollars worth of lining.

After those two projects are done, we're gonna look at putting in monitors so we can see how much is reduced from the previous study.

Okay.

So that is in that is in place, but I would like to get those two projects because those are the two main projects that are the biggest projects that we've done for wastewater that would show an impossible um reduction in IN.

Yeah, well, we did though, we did a lot of uh water chart.

Uh one of our working on the wastewater system back in 2022, I think.

Uh and generally our system is in pretty good condition, but like the Waverly place and these other projects, we have a million-dollar uh another million dollar project that uh that will really really help us sort of achieve our or sort of get close to the our our required uh reduction.

So and so this is a pipe bursting project, or this is an actual trenching.

No, no, we'll be lining it up.

Yeah, but a pulling um the um the UV liner that comes through this for this one, the other one will probably do a different method because it's just um we're in the back of the million dollar homes, and it's it's not a capacity issue at this point, it's a um routes are true, things like that.

So we can run a road cylinder through there, clean up that, and then pull this new liner through.

It goes from manhold to banhole basically, so it's not as much intrusion as an open cut, which is nice.

That seems usually credit.

But both of these programs would qualify for the West program where we get 33% of it paid for them.

So they're important steps to looking at our infrastructure and making sure we don't have later, you know, bigger costs because we did do that.

I just wanted to bring that to your attention.

Okay, Waverly South and 26th Avenue improvements.

Um this is approaching a 60% design.

Hector is designing it in-house.

Um, it is one of our smaller projects, but it is actually really kind of critical.

We have some resonance, especially in the um Waverley South area, um, where we've got a sewer line as a deteriorating.

We've got an undersized water line, um, has actual water quality issues that needs to be upsized, and then we have a few little ramps and it needs to be paid.

Um, it's an area that we missing page.

So this is also um, I would like to get it out to bid as soon as it hits uh 100% and Hector's moving that forward, which is great.

I'm expecting this month those 60% design.

And then we tap 26th Avenue improvement on with it.

Just a slightly reproduct.

It's about a million dollar project all together.

I'm going to do this every road apparently.

Lava Drive is on our TSP.

Will that one have shareholds as you do with I think a neighborhood street?

And like all the way up the hill.

Not all the way up, just lava drive.

Now there's that is an easy thing to put in there as far as that goes.

So we can I haven't seen the 60% design.

That's fairly coming.

But yeah, it's I mean that's a that's a that's a really easy.

Yeah.

I mean, I do think the parking, yeah, having some clarity around parking on the drive once it's done will be important.

Question we're looking at right now, uh at least I'll think anyway, so we'll have a little more clarity on at least two.

So yeah, yeah, agree.

All right, I mean road ringway.

We are um so our eastern our east Washington Monroe section from uh Langwood all the way to 37.

We receive 9% design drawings, and we're getting ready to get those back to ODOT.

So they have a huge process.

Once they get that 90%, they then have multiple divisions that it goes through.

This will not go out to bid until next June.

So yes, we're gonna get done their stuff, and then we'll get some comments back and things like that.

Um, but it will not go out to bid until next June.

So um that's just kind of the ODOT time.

That's the time, yes.

Let's go out time right now that's where I'm at.

Um, I don't control that schedule and I cannot move it forward.

So um that's where we're at.

Um just see weight.

So the exciting part is is uh central Monroe Greenway.

We will um we started design.

We're gonna have our first engagement in October.

Someone should pay attention.

Um they haven't given me a date yet for it, but we should hear about when uh um you know uh public engagement event will happen.

And so I think you were gonna put ours out either about the same time or before Odot as theirs.

Um we're gonna build it before, probably the other section.

I I guarantee we'll probably be dfora section just because we can move so much faster.

And yeah.

Is it a competition?

Yeah, uh I maybe maybe I need a shadow box.

The the other piece of this is um the east segment, we will not be managing even the construction of that.

It will be completely delivered by ODOT and they will have a consultant that I I tried, I said, hey, so are we gonna be able to provide inspection?

Like no.

So uh it is what it is, and we're just gonna have to keep moving through that piece.

Did you know um the county has opened the road part of Monroe or their stretch of Monroe?

They've opened the road from uh Lynnwood to the elementary school, not all the way to Fuller, but um, but they haven't actually built the path.

Do you know when their timeline is or then what's going on out there?

I know it's under construction.

I don't actually have an idea of their working with um or our standing section, but um I haven't asked them about the round their section, how it's going.

They have a traffic whatever roundabout there, which looks very nice.

So I think it's gonna take about two years to construct it fully.

Yeah, it seems their projects take a little bit longer.

Yeah, and then a slave ever.

Can I some clarity here?

Yeah, the intersection at Oak and Monroe is one of our TSP projects for cars with a mini roundabout.

And there's a bike TSP project that was elevated on 34th.

And now there's this central Milwaukee segment that we're designing.

I guess how do these all it seems like that intersection is especially like a hotbed for a transportation model?

How do you layer on all those projects or do them separately or design in a way that incorporates all of those?

Well, it's really close to the railroad.

Yeah.

So what we're doing is right now we've got a kind of a study of what do we do again across the railroad or the greenway as well.

I'm gonna have to add that intersection because it's so close, right?

Yeah.

Or the goes where we're gonna have to expand that scope.

Um, which just kind of came up in that CSP.

So that hasn't been expanded yet.

So we do have to look at that.

Um it's also I don't think I can build that roundabout until we figure out what we're gonna do with the router treatment plant on that south property.

Sure.

What we've discovered is we're most we are going to have to move that treatment to the north site at RB40.

Okay.

There's not enough space to do PFOS treatment at the lower treatment plan.

What that means is an opportunity then though of that space to actually reload it for this potential of a roundabout and bringing that bike way in.

But how that's gonna layer is we gotta first move the treatment plan.

So treatment plan is gonna be first priority as far as that goes, and then improvements to that intersection because you need a space to make that have it.

There's not enough space to put a mini roundabout without incorporate getting onto our property.

Yeah, right.

Which leads me to then.

I mean, if you're throwing in changing around the side of the road because you have this additional property that you can play with, how do we design this segment so that it still has connectivity, even if we do this roundabout project?

Or like I guess what is it?

Oh, because all I'm doing is I have the corner at that intersection.

We can go right down oak.

So we will have a connection to go right down oak or across the street brown oak.

Okay.

I won't be touching the actual intersection until we're ready to do that bigger piece.

Okay.

Yep.

Does that make sense?

That makes sense.

The only worry that I would have is like I think about that seven acres apartment, that little L stretch.

There is the way that the multi-use path was designed.

Is you turn down the L to go on our little Washington Street cutoff that we decided to do.

A lot of bikes still will take the multi-use path bike off of that multi-use path back onto the road.

So there's this little naked stretch of grass now that is at that intersection of 37 and uh Monroe.

And so I the only point there is like bikes are using it still to go straight on that intersection.

It's important to up and rock.

Yep.

And so it's important that we still, even if we're not designing necessarily, like we totally can just go down oak, but having that small connectivity that allows we can still access the street and whatever the intersection is, either untreated like it is now or treating the computer, I think it's important.

Does that make sense?

Or talking to you.

I think we I mean, yeah, I think it's we can look at as far as that goes.

Yeah.

But I think there's some really interesting things we can do here.

It's just we're gonna have to.

There's a lot, right?

There's a lot in that intersection of oak, yeah, road road, and row.

Yeah.

And it is absolutely an intersection we need to need to fix.

But I would not have thought of that intersection is the full component of a lot of our transportation routes walked, but ironically, like the TSP home shaped up or something walk by the way plan that we adopted.

Um a lot of entry.

I'm glad that we've got some wiggle rooms project early for that.

Yeah.

Okay, awesome.

Thank you.

Okay, scanly improvements.

Um, right now we're in negotiations, uh, talking with a consultant until we have those in place.

We're I'm just working to like taking a little longer than I expected, but um, but we can have means managing that, but we're um incalled with it.

So still negotiations.

Hopefully, we have some extra.

Um, that one is the county's funding some, but we we're going for safe routes money for some.

Do is there enough money to do it without the safe routes money?

It pretty much means our lowest project has been okay.

So um we have money in the CIP for design right now.

Um, we we put that in.

We we put that in just in case if we want to make sure we have design.

I would say this is still about 18 months out before we would go up for construction from whenever we sign a contract.

So we haven't even signed a contract yet.

We still got like 18 months before this is gonna go out.

Um, I'm hoping to go out for another safe routes to school grant, um, revamp that a little bit different, maybe pull off a little bit money to save it's a little more um just winning yeah.

No, we need to save routes grants last time.

This was like the third year, and there were 25 projects on it, so it's close to that cutoff list.

But nobody got over 2 million dollars, and we asked for three mil.

Yeah.

And I guess the question then that I had is did they I know safe routes folks had said that they would offer a breakdown of what why projects did score higher?

Did they ever actually follow through on that?

Or we'll talk to you.

I think so.

Yeah, okay.

So anyways, we would have time to go back out for another round of that, but at the same time, we do have to fund it in this next CIP.

So it'll move, it'll move forward in the next CIP and based off of we'll hear about our prioritization, but we ran it through our prioritization and it does score highly as far as like because we're getting funds, right?

We are getting 60% of it, you know, funded by the county.

Um, so that's a huge amount of help us with that project forward.

Okay.

Are you the best point of contact to connect with safe staff to help it's available or yes?

Okay, my name's only application.

Yes, and it's more of a program thing than a yeah.

Okay, uh, our next update you're probably gonna see these individually broken out because they're gonna become actual like individual projects, but we're gonna talk about it on one slide for today.

So, well eight, where we're at for retesting for POS.

This is important.

If the well is PFOS, then that changes what we do with this well, right?

It needs to be treated for that, then it impacts what we do with this water.

Um, do we have to pump it to the new location authority hard?

Is it even worthwhile keeping this well where it is, or do we need to reload relocation?

Once we answer that question, then we can um look to see about uh cleaning a well and saying available it is actually utilized.

This is still a priority for me because we wanna we want to know what's happening with that well right now.

We have haven't used it for over 10 years now, Peter.

Yeah, um you know, so we're not utilizing the water rights of it, we're not using the capacity of it whatsoever, it's just sitting there.

Um and so if we decide that it's needs more that the sign cleaning is not gonna help it, then we need to figure out and plan for a new level.

Uh water cure plan.

We've uh we're working through the study.

Um, we're prepping to have a column test done, which evaluates three different um treatment possibilities uh for treating PFOS.

Um we're moving that forward, um, just working with procurement to give that um security.

EPA has extended the compliance to 2031, so we're kind of adjusting our schedules and figuring out what that looks like, and then we've applied um for a safe drinking water loan.

They come back and said we can get a six million dollar loan or we're approved.

Well, there's not approved.

Are you interested in type of deal?

That's where we're at.

Three million of it will be unforgivable.

The other three million local payback.

Unforgivable orgivable, and then um so we would be subject to three million dollar loan.

However, because we are considered a disadvantage, we would probably get a reduced interest rate on that than what they're currently offering everybody else.

We don't know what that is yet.

So we said we're interested, and we're looking at putting an application in to see if those rates would be if that's um that looks good and we feel confident about it and accept our application, and we'll become disadvantaged.

Um, you know, I I think it's based on some sort of economic indicator.

Uh you know, the Oregon Miz has suggested that we that we met that criteria.

I think I shared with you a couple weeks ago, maybe during the affordability discussion.

It was like a super like there's two bins of money.

This is this first safe drinking water revolving world fund that we can use or pretty much a lot.

There's a lot more uses that we can use that money for.

Uh, and then there's the other bin that's strictly related to merchant containments that you can only use for like the treatment pieces.

Um we're gonna we'll apply for that as well.

Like how what was the effect of the rates using using these funds that are available?

But super excited that we're looking at possibly getting three million for one, which is fantastic.

Like that is something uh is definitely a nice piece to I think I think it should just clarify they forgive them principle, but you still have to pay like interest amount of course, yeah.

But if it's a good deal, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, we'll take.

Okay.

Okay.

Um we're evaluating our concrete tank.

Um as um, I think.

Did you get results on it?

I didn't care about the results.

We did, we did get a uh uh we had somebody died buttons when the technical given um I think Steve got the the information.

Um there wasn't a significant change from last one, and we recommended some uh improvements recommended replacing the word or something of the concrete reservoir, uh, and some size incompromments.

I think that's the gem just set up the equipment.

This is the tank with the mural on it.

Yes, okay, yes.

And then we um just collected a bunch of uh data to start looking at some title as for the new press for and versus some.

So that's up and come.

Spawn.

All right, there's another project of ours.

So these are three pictures of uh things we've installed.

So solar RFB, it's Stanley and Harrow.

Uh speed bumps at Wichita installed.

We've got positive feedback on those, which has been fantastic from Camilo.

Um there's a flashing light at Harrison, the flashing light head assigned up there, like people were more aware that it's coming up on a stop sign.

And we're working right now on shared road signs and island station.

They're not really installed here, but they are very close.

Those are the four main projects beside what we did on 29th I think that have been approved and constructed.

Or look it's down, it's across the street from the reservoir.

Yeah, the park.

Oh, okay.

The park, so it's the park entrance um right there.

Um, and then just north of the school back side of Link Lake.

Okay.

Awesome.

And then we have seven more proposals going to PSAC in September.

Huge fan of the spot program.

Love seeing all these projects coming on board.

I hitch my dream of what we do.

Yeah.

Um, I would love if we could have a hokey little like sign that says object requested by this one's made possible by the spot program.

Not by the spot program, by the like resident who submitted it, like a little rapid flash weekend or whoever like you can pitch that to be set active as far as I'm concerned.

Well, I was gonna say if I paid for it out of my council budget, could be how expensive is it to like bolt that up or like a tiny little metal sign?

Well, I will say there will be a naming policy brought to October 21st, part of which has a sub policy that is about what do we call it?

Like um dedication, dedications for financial contributions.

So I think maybe we revisit this there because that would be very connected to this if you find a financial.

I mean, I just financial contribution, but yeah, but I also I would say I would agree with Jen.

I think that I PSA is an advisory body to you.

Yeah, but it'd probably be nice to get TSA's thoughts on this as the body you have deputized to administer this program.

Or could I make a friendly amendment?

Well, first of all, I'd only be in favor of the symphony's bull.

Secondly, um, if it comes from your council budget, then I think there should be a second sign.

That sign that says this sign was made possible by this so all they can get in double.

We're always made possible by his mother is where they don't have unfolding.

So we do the one you all phase we do need to be careful on how many signs we're putting on, like a sign.

And there's some things that we distract.

I mean tiny, like yeah, postcard size.

All right.

But I think it's not you all can say it's a foolish idea.

says this sign was made possible by this so all they're gonna double is made possible by his mother is in the school where they don't unfold these ones so we do the one we all say is we do need to be careful on how many signs we're putting on like a sign and there's some things that we distract I mean tiny like postcard size all right but I think it's not you all can say it's a foolish idea but I love this program that's like number one complaint you get it's like my neighbor's not safe right and this program is directly allowing people to wait to be like they can change their neighborhoods and then it's cute to celebrate them for like being active and dreaming seeing this it's a good idea to show appreciation for how this like gestion came about I don't know about putting an individual's name on the sign I I would rather maybe say something like you know this um improvement was made possible by a resident suggestion in the ex neighborhood or something along those lines because then you're promoting the neighborhood you know where in the they go through that path to talk with a piece of PSEC rep or the you know like it's or I know I'm soft unless we can talk about this name tall and I can be in the minority and I'll be fine.

Also PSAC is putting together a pilot article for October to celebrate these projects and put a QR code to the form like a little I could get at the very least you know I do make the the cheap yard signs like we do for the greenway is something like that that could this temporary couldn't say this improvement was made possible by the spot program QR vote to submit a little breathing we're about to do a little yeah well I don't care if they're all the room surgical so it's basically or the end of the year maybe they celebrate all these projects that they did yeah you know and do a little like celebration as far as that goes so that's another 30 thousand but I want to celebrate our people I won't say how big it has to be thousands of things oh that's true by the first to put it chess co-ops maybe here so there's ways for that yeah yes it yeah yeah all right any other questions on the spot pro oh so the spot program has been um managed by I'm now gonna be stepping into that role on PSAC so um we're in transition period Jeff you know and half an engineering or part of engineering going to help it works well Jeff Talentino has been managing this no no so I'm I'm just thinking over PSA um starting in November or transitioning September and October I needed a little help seven applications and just look at them so just like that okay little news uh still have not heard about our grant for Harrison so if you have any poll to say hey what's going on I can use your help is it a federal grant yes yeah yes for airmark well it wasn't your mark it was working so I still would love to do this study right this is we need this for Harrison this is how we're gonna move our Harrison project forward is it is gonna need federal dollars so uh the last update remember's office was positive that it's crickets from the actual that's yeah crickets except for lovely I was gonna say this for a couple months since we heard from Sarah right yeah um I'll check in with her on the upside we did get wrap up funds for railroad after I put that up here but wrap up for railroad design that's awesome um so you're gonna see that in the CIP um as far as that goes that's coming unfund from the unfunded hacker moving to the CIP and that's the one where the community helped vote yeah right we gave and it it pulled us up um to get those funds so that was given a long shot it was very we thought it was a long shot too so that is incredible so there's a lot of projects that aren't just something we can delay right these we can't deliver we either not take these funds and step away which only has a 10% match or we take it and run with it right so that's what's gonna really deprive our CIP in the next couple years.

I don't know.

The only solution to our one.

But it's a first.

Yeah.

It's a step towards, hey, we're looking at this.

Um, they think it's really important.

Um, so they're giving us money.

Um, so that was also approved.

Um that'll also be in the new CIP.

Uh upcoming um downtown streetscape improvements.

Um, we're gonna have a charter ready for that um for the end of this month.

And um that's looking at you know, updating this all the way to Soto, Washington, where we finish the South downtown.

Okay, yeah, I was confused because in your chart or somewhere it seemed like there was a division of worth of comparison and south.

Comparison or something?

There is an original like safe program, but I'm just trying to get this piece of it, then we'll have another piece that goes north.

So it's going to city, yeah.

Yeah, I'm a little worried we don't have quite enough funds.

We have to look at the base thing for we have to look at it's we may have to break it up into two phases, but we're gonna see.

We have to we have to look about a little bit more.

We are aware, I think part of that gentleman is speaking, but yeah.

We know there's a there's a jaywalking problem, there's a U-turning problem, there's a lot of problems right around here.

So engineering design safety issues.

Okay.

So that would look at all of that.

We would stop just short of only place.

Okay.

And then our sewer lining project that we talked about earlier is a that'll be an in-house design straight straightforward.

And I live in get it out this way.

Josh will be managing that project.

Hey Bear.

Yeah, you're on.

Yeah, I get a job, Jen.

This is your new CIP dream team, folks.

They're together every day for hours.

Sounds like a CIP reality show.

Um with the civil engineer.

So I I think we did a pretty good job with staff reports with that one to try to accomplish with prioritizing the CIP.

I'm just gonna be really sort of interested in that because I think where I want to come back, I want to spend some more time.

I'm gonna show you really like I'll talk a little bit about why we want to do this, why we're prioritizing projects using sportization variables.

You know, what we hope to accomplish by doing that.

And so it'll show you the the credit, the basic criteria, and then some samples of what it looks like.

Uh which button, there we go.

So why are we doing this?

Well, really, it's part of finding the process to improve on deliverability.

We want to be this is gonna help us.

We've talked about this, I think, in our affordability discussions as one of our one of our uh strategies of right sizing our CIP, making sure that you know it fits our financial resources, but also our you know, Jen's used this word a couple times, you know, capacity projects.

Uh the engineering team has been uh delivering lots of projects.

We've got lots of projects in the works, but we also have a lot of projects that you see in the CIP document that are just sort of sitting there and moving and getting deferred.

So we're trying to right size it to make sure that it reflects what we can what we can really execute and in the buy-in and in that six-year plan.

Uh one of the other things we're looking at doing with the talking about it's just making a distinction between our large maintenance projects that we have spray seal overlays and our true capital plants that require uh significant design work and significant project management work associated with that.

Um I really want to really want to program, right?

We want to be also able to perhaps reallocate some of those dollars to operations and maintenance feeds that we've got, you know, continue to build more green infrastructure.

I still need one person to maintain green infrastructure, so we want to reallocate some of these dollars that programmed or uh capital projects that were challenged and fully uh executed.

So one of the things that we've been looking at that we're looking at doing is using a prioritization framework to help us prioritize projects.

Um, we're looking at uh how do projects align with our different policies or TSP or climate climate action plan, comprehensive plan, our other system plans that we have.

Uh is there a regulatory compliance component?

Are we required by some sort of regulation to do our defunds with a good example of that or an NPD as on its requirement for Swallwater?

Um what's the condition of the asset?

Where is it within its life cycle?

You know, we've talked a lot about life cycle of pavement, but we have other buried infrastructure that we don't see day to day that we want to make sure that we're we're being diligent and making good choices on when we replace that.

So trying to factor those in uh into the uh uh into the evaluation uh equity, you know, are we are we doing work in a way that uh promotes equity?

Are we are we you know, spreading the wealth throughout the community, make sure that that you know uh that we're intentional, not uh unintentionally uh missing places, uh looking at how it helps us meet and achieve some of our sustainability goals, you know, our climate work that we're doing, uh, and factoring in community engagement and external funding.

You know, if we get 60% or 70% of the funding that project raises up on the list of trying to get done.

Uh I think when we look at this, it sort of helps us sort of flatten some of our rate projections because we're we've got a program that's more executable, more realistic.

We're not going to the ratepayers uh or funding that we're just putting away in the bank and not use them.

Uh it also helps us you know make strategic decisions on how we're deferring projects.

You know, it's just uh don't have the time, or we're sort of consciously looking at how it sort of fits in that uh matrix that we have, and and maybe those projects that have lower impacts to the community, you know, we're moving those out.

Uh and it really sort of helps us also improve that coordination between funding or staff capacity.

You know, we have you know, Jen, one of the goals in this is like Jen is not gonna manage individual projects, she's gonna manage the program or CIP program uh and her engineering staff, the engineers that we have will be those project managers.

Uh and that I think will will go a long way, but it's not just the engineering staff capacity, it's our operational staff.

We are heavily involved with uh those projects, our SCADA project, uh the state of the reservoir that that took time from our water team to be out there and be part of the project team.

So we have to make sure that we're capturing those sorts of things and how it impacts all teams in the city.

Even when you ran outsulting, you still need staff to pull that in, right?

Make sure we're doing what we're we're teaching what we want.

So it still takes half staff time.

Um so when we were doing this, we we took a look at like I should say too, we've had lots of discussions with GORAT on this.

Uh I think we started discussions that we've seen with those two years ago on this and have walked through the evaluation criteria, how we are what what scoring we're attributing to each factor and how we meet them.

Um so here's the different criteria and how we weight them.

So let's say uh I'll take a look at the the comprehensive planning outcome and policy alignment.

So uh you can score up the three points and uh the scoring matrix that we have.

Uh it goes from one to three or zero to three actually, uh, depending on how it fits in there, and the more that it's aligned with the different policies and system plans that we have, the more points that you get.

And then we weight that by three.

So if you get a three, if you know you're aligned with three problem three of those policies and system plans, then you'll score a total of nine points on that regulatory compliance.

You know, that's that's something we wanted to make sure that we weighted that high because that's sort of like you're you're we have a requirement of mandate.

We can judge lay face uh some sort of financial penalties, and we don't certainly we don't meet those uh requirements that are regulated.

Uh we took a look at sound fiscal stewardship.

That's the component of uh um drawing the light there.

Um I'll get back to that.

What if I can think about that?

And if efficient and effective processes, that's the uh the criteria that we're looking at.

Does it improve our processes?

Are we giving them how we deliver services uh within the city?

I believe we can score up to three, and it's only weighted by uh five or so you score three at the most if you if you hit those targets, uh equity and inclusion, like power will be a redistributing, like I said, distributing the funding appropriately throughout the community.

Uh we've weighted that with the two, environmental sustainability, you know, that's where we're looking at also like energy savings on projects, uh, you know, things that tie in with our uh things uh yeah, things that tie in with our climate action work that we've that we've identified.

So no, in this case, safe is a uh program that we've identified as a strength of our product actually.

So that would be uh that would get a point for being a safe.

So it's a point there.

Uh the uh sound fiscal stewardship, that's how is it going to affect our operating budget?

Is this like going to be a project that's going to have additional cost for us to maintain, or does it reduce our cost because now we don't have to go out there and you know do it?

Do months for pairing maintenance can to keep it to keep it fixed.

So what's that impact on our operational uh budget over the lifetime of that facility?

Uh does it require does that will with that new facility require additional resources?

Um I think one of the examples will have of I have I think I added the uh staff report with a lot piece having a new uh post station require more time.

We have we have now we have to send something out there to go to go check in uh routinely, and uh that's something I moved to have.

So uh that would sort of be like a a negative against that sort of piece.

Um community engagement, uh, you know, does the project include uh engagement dollars?

Is it going to improve community satisfaction uh within different outcome areas like pedestrian transportation, parks, economic development, uh community affordability and culture.

Um talked a little bit about asset condition already.

Uh but that's really looking at like are we at the appropriate place and replacing set within its life cycle.

Uh external funding, well, they'll score for six points.

Um it's really sort of dependent on like how much what percentage of fund project outside sources, uh, and then economic development.

Is there an economic development?

Um, is in a project uh that will encourage future economic growth and increase tax bread or will it help that help us achieve some of those things like the downtown business improvements, mainstream improvements might be a good example of a project where you receive uh a higher score because we're we'll replace the side box, uh infrastructure down to help me boot spur for dispersal development.

Um so one of the things that we've done is we've taken some of our I'll say it's some of the four projects that have like our focus on right now.

Uh some of them we've talked about uh that are coming up in Design and use these criteria to sort of see how they score that.

Uh I think I provided a copy of this in the status report.

Uh but when we've done this, we've ranked we've had a ranking of all all the way up of 41 for larger water treatment plan projects that we've talked about all the way down to 15 for individual 125.

And again, we weren't planning to discuss this tonight because there's going to be a lot of time redoing in November.

But we just wanted to kind of give you a status update on how we're applying the criteria and just make sure at this stage if you have any questions or concerns.

And then I think how we see us using this tool is to have to sort of place projects into the different years in our capital improvement plan that use and how do we resource that the funds and the staff that we have to manage as projects.

So my computer died, but um, as I recall, you also had a chart in there that showed what where they are in the um what calendar year or what budget year they were in that column's not in the table.

Did because I was looking at that today, and I said I that's accurate accurate.

Okay, well, I guess my question from that is this would that change because of this rating?

So you would things that maybe say 2829 or 2930 or whatever might move up because they came and other things might have to be that's how yeah, so we need to build that new CIP, right?

And we're gonna use this criteria to be like, oh, this score is high, let's move that up a little bit.

And oh yeah, we have more projects we have to score an outside, right?

Like so that's the other piece of yeah, these are like the big projects that we that we're we feel like would like or that were coming up into the upcoming by their projects that we had that we had planned in the spite that we had started up.

So I think important description here is also like logos.

If you look at it, it's actually drops a little bit lower on some things.

So I think it's a reason to you know, we might we're probably gonna move it down in Stanley or even Ardenwald South may come up higher on that because they're way up here.

Doesn't mean it's not off the list, but we're probably gonna shift things a little bit, which also aligned, I think, with our new TSP that's also coming up, which we'll be talking about the new TSP list next Tuesday.

So when we see this in November, will we see the actual full sheet score analysis of how locus ended up being below our middle steps?

Like nodes for about underpinning these scores, yeah.

Mayor we have that in the in the spreadsheet, it's built into the spreadsheet, but I guess we'd have to figure out how you can display that.

Because like with each score, we said this is why it's scored that way.

I think we could provide it in a staff report if you don't have an answer questions, but I do want to say though, like we're not gonna have a full CIP by November.

It'll it'll be a start of it.

The full draft of the CIP is now it's actually until February.

Yeah, so just an indication of where we're going though in terms of prioritization.

I have two questions.

One is a more we do question, one's more high level.

But we need one maybe first, something like a Rose Street Greenway.

Why would it sustain sustainability score be so low?

Um I guess how are we deriving?

I think when we looked at it, yeah.

It didn't meet all three criteria.

Yeah.

So resilience might not be.

Yeah, um so for example, like when we look at sustainability, it's based on so and the idea is we'll get into a little more detail on this, but like does the pro proposed project helping the planetals of the case?

So we scored what I can guess for that.

Does the proposed project improve green space or access to residential use of public land for environmentally sustainable uses?

I I don't think we gave it a point for that.

Uh, and then though does the proposed project account for that action adaptation.

Like, you know, is it is it a project that uh reduces the severity of flooding or extreme temperatures and those types of things.

Uh we did it did score four.

It did score, I think probably up the nine points for uh the policy alignment, uh which had the climate action plan.

So we supported that sort of benefit there.

Yeah, but it didn't get these other benefits, so it only got the one okay.

And I'm gonna tell you uh I have some thoughts on this, and then you know, I think that this list and if we're gonna provide some backup assumptions and everything like that, it's gotta get out there before the staff report you know goes public and uh you know at least this part uh then I think as these questions come up is like we will uh you know this is gonna I would suggest we get those questions in to Peter or whoever you designate to try to get some of these questions answered, or we will be here with three nights and yeah, okay.

So I'm just saying, you know, let's it's gonna require some more work on our part.

100% I do to Jen's point.

I mean, you don't need to have a draft, we don't have a draft CIP until February.

So I think our November milestone is really trying to give you as much preliminary information about how we're applying this, and then answer your questions both at the budget committee, but also you know, afterwards so that we can be refining it and taking your direction because you may disagree, you may say there's like our kind of shadow 10th column, which is political direction.

And if you give us direction, we can we can re-elabate that.

I think I I think I would I would caution against it, College.

Great world.

I guess I play or the reason I ask is if there are breakdown, what's kind of shown in the staff report is category breakdowns, but then what you're describing here is each category has a sub-breakdown of the points.

Yeah, can we see those breakdowns to better understand?

Yeah, for sure.

We actually have it's all it's all laid out for it.

Tonight was supposed to be the sneak preview.

Okay, I think tonight is not the time to give feedback on the R today.

Tonight is not the time to give feedback on the I don't need the credit, like the order.

I need the like buckets, yeah, or is it I mean I think it is so I guess you can say we've been workshopping this this um methodology with quack for about a year and a half now.

So I I do think, and and and why we put it in the staff report is yeah, if you're like we're missing a total methodological point, we need to know that, but going line by line through this not the point of doing that.

I was just gonna say we're really looking at using this as like a retro tool.

Like this is like if you have if there are a question that we did you think why did why did this project end up here?

We don't we've got enough at all.

We've we've used this criteria, yeah.

This is why it properly before I get killed by the same I guess the the question that I would have a larger like feedback I would have on this is the buckets, I think to me all look fine, but I am really curious before we roll it out for a CFP project the subbuckets to understand those.

Yeah, and I guess the one bucket that I kind of see and see here is like where would our goals fall into this?

Something like Kellogg is uniquely like the policy policy.

I think we want to guess to live on beyond just goals, but I do think the policy alignment is goals are one of the things we are looking for.

So I kind of say this facetiously because like sustainability you may have a parks and green space thing that's included in there, and ac dev has its own column that has even more weight in the parks and green space and affordability has no call outside of just the policy or like equity.

There's equity, yeah.

That's true.

I guess understanding case goals just are we a fine goals being implicit throughout different things, but maybe weighted differently, or well we want to span of this project prioritization.

Like if we want this to be projects that are prioritized until the next TSP, that's like what seven to ten years later.

Are we gonna be here?

just the policy are like equity there's equity yeah that's true i guess understanding schools just are we a fine goals being applic throughout different things but maybe waiting differently or well we want we'll this span of this project prioritization like if we want this to be projects that are prioritized until the next TSP that's like what seven to ten years later are we gonna be here yeah you know I mean councils determined goals in a smaller set of increments that we want yeah these um projects and the policies to be influenced by the goals and the work that we're doing but not um not uh defined for the work of the future council yeah I I mean I do think the comp plan the things that are under CPO the policy and comp plan with TSV are the longer range things that it should be more tied to the I think when you'll have the discussion and uh you know we'll we'll dig into more of like what's what are what what's really the full components of those criteria how of the what's the internal criteria that we're scoring and here's here's what I'd say too pushback if you guys disagree but that those methodological notes already exist they've been shared with the quack so we can provide that as a follow-up after this meeting and then review it and then chat with me are in an upcoming one of them if you've got concerns and we can circle back before the November meeting.

Yeah and I guess that was the process that I was understanding in November we're not talking about the buckets anymore the buckets are closed we're talking about the list.

And we're talking about the shadow column direct because you guys can say that one that's scored 16 so it's most important for this these five member council make sure it gets in there.

That's the type of political direction you guys get to give so all our convers or all our notes about the buckets should come in before and we should provide those two in a one on one after like how do we get consensus well I mean I think I think it's also I mean you're so your quack has endorsed this.

Yeah so I don't let us send it around um and then if I think let and read it and if you have significant concerns bring it to me and if I hear significant concerns I'll put it on an agenda so that we can discuss it prior to November.

Well it's just one of a few ideas of prioritized items we're talking for a long time were there other product of the 18 months of iteration with the quack I think you'll find very similar that means criteria to help them and I will say this is more rigor than I think we've had in a very long time for how we develop a prior projects.

So I guess I will say I don't know if it's the shadow column but I do feel like one piece that's not here that I'm a little bit worried about is I mean overall I think it's great is um community expectations it's like lowest road things are talking low road is done except logus road is going to say quite a while um once we did 43rd then lowest roads became kind of more important um so I do think that needs to be part of the conversation in some way I wonder this is where I'm gonna be like that sport but I think that would be a great sub bucket under community engagement and it would I think be valuable to look at the subbuckets and we it the format is for you to do it one stay on the actual do you want to stay for another two hours well I think that's actually part of that community so is it is that project is it will is it going to three community satisfaction with one of those outcomes with a project so it is it is it is part of that yeah so we will send the we'll send that methodological notes out maybe well it's several pages it is detailed up so many comments that would be fantastic sounds for you and I think next slide any other I'll take it yet no other okay no other comments I think the other thing we wanted to to talk about because I think I use i in the staff report we use that prioritization criteria what is it calculated as a project uh or are the Calon Creek um pump stations what I'm calling it now or sewer line relocation right uh so I mean basically we're looking at you know a construction cost of about four and a half billion dollars which we find dollars 2025 dollars uh and then some additional long-term owner costs associated with our uh with the operations of that facility uh we've had the rate consult look at it to see like what's the impact to the the utility you know the wastewater fund is a fund that actually has some uh a significant reserve so the impact isn't as as large as it might be with some uh some other projects uh but what they do say is it could be funded with you know if we're just using our internal funds uh it could be funded in right here with some modest increases of two and a half percent uh and that would be you know sort of over the the life span of that that design instruction phase so two and a half percent increase on our rates right now

Uh but what they do say is it could be funded with you know, if we're just using our turn funds, uh it could be funded at rate periods with some modest increases of two and a half percent.

Uh and that would be you know, sort of over the the life span of that that design construction phase.

So two and a half percent increase on our rates right now for that average uh residential customer actually percent about a dollar 25, right?

You know, it's about 66 and 65 cents.

So is it additional two and a half percent of what are already increasing?

Well, right now we have in fact we we we don't have it, would be an additional two percent.

So I think what they were looking at was uh, and I can I can verify this again.

I think they were looking at we're gonna need to have there's a couple of increases that we'll need to do to track with uh inflation or changes in OM, but it would require an additional an additional modest increase.

So not a whole lot, yeah.

Uh but it's you know it's a dollar 25.

And it is worth saying, but this is assuming the city assumes the full construction costs.

So there are as you heard last time we talked about this, there's opportunities for grants for loans, loans have some forgivable component, some ongoing expense.

So we're showing you kind of the I don't call the worst case scenario, but I think it's important for CIP budgeting that you kind of know that like if we took this on and didn't get that financial support, this is the side of sub weaknesses the impact.

Yeah, I think that's great.

I will say the um interestingly, I got phone from the lobbyist for the natural mayors consortium or run could somehow heard about this, and all they do work for Oak Lodge Sanitary, and they helped Oak Lodge get eight million dollars, a combo of two million in remodeling loan for given stuff, and six million from the legislature for um some projects that book lodge needed to do.

So um they were offering their services if you want to have a meeting with them about um about those kind of uh that kind of assistance.

But I mean, I guess I just offer that up as a way of saying, and I kind of said it last time we talked about it is you know, whether it's earmarks, whether it's conversion earmarks or whatever.

Yeah, I'm I guess I'm optimistic, yeah.

That the city would be to share fund the whole yeah, yeah.

And I think we might be too.

Um I think that that next bullet up there, and I would speak about this, Peter.

Is there's the there's the financial cost, and then there is also we've heard us talk a lot about our right size CIP and the capacity of our staff, and so we're we're happy to put this on the list and say and prioritize it, but it will take project management capacity.

So Peter, how long it would it take us to pay this off to pay if well given this scenario, which I think is the most pessimistic scenario.

How long would it take us to pay this off?

This is a pay that goes.

This is yes, we use existing reserves.

But we have to increase the rate to table it that way, so to make sure we can look at this.

We would this would not be using a loan.

This would be using existing funds that we have our reserves that are above our minimum cash balances.

So it's the increase for the maintenance.

The increase is to make sure that we maintain above our cash balance and cover and cover future operations and maintenance cost for the utility and future, you know, those future costs.

So it's just making sure that we keep it.

So you're you're draining four and a half mil from your fund balance, right?

To replenish that state above policy levels, and then you also have ongoing because we have inflation.

Because it's not like you're borrowing money that you're where's the increase coming from.

We have fund, we have policy um policies around minimum fund balances.

So it's keeping our own cells above that.

We have other wastewater work that we'll need to prioritize.

So this is what our rank consultant has saying.

You add this in to the other work and you look at what your drawdowns can be of your fund balance to get you back up to healthy reserves and to cover ongoing ONM.

So they're reserved ongoing capital.

So there are, I mean, there are inflationary costs or cost to do business and it goes up, you know.

Yeah, right, right.

So count circle survival is point.

If we need to we're drawing down, we need to build back up the reserves.

Could be then taper off that increase slightly so it only has to cover the net.

Or like we're not constantly getting having to build back our reserves.

We would be building that reserve back up to that to the level that it's at now, right?

So I mean it's it's keeping the uh the fund balance at a threshold that's above our minimum.

One of the other things we talked about settings maximum, it would keep it above them, right?

And uh we can talk the brain consultant talks some more about this.

Yeah, if I remember when they're when they're here, but I I think uh the good news is we have the cash money if we want to do it.

I think though, and I think I think with general I feel pretty strongly about this is the challenges managing all the other projects, all the other priorities, whether it's other uh you know projects that we already have in the mix, uh, but adding this into as a project, it's fairly complicated.

I mean, it's it's designing uh a pump station and a force main to take that work and making sure that that happens.

Uh takes away our capacities to build projects that that are that are also of a high program in some cases where we have a regulatory requirement.

And can I just jump in there for you?

We're not asking again tonight, it's not yeah, build the pump station, don't build the pump station.

We have a lot of work to do to build the CIP.

You've seen a very small preview of our big matrix and all these things.

We're just basically asking, do you want us to go ahead and put this in the mix so we can do all that same analysis when we come back to you in November and we come back in February, we're incorporating this on that list of potential rate impacts and staff money.

Or are you wanting to say now no, we we would rather we need more information before we can say throw this on to the CIP for planning purposes.

I appreciate that, Emma, but I think that I think that possibly I and I think Adam maybe getting the same thing uh about uh you know this you know continuing.

So correct me if I'm wrong, and let me give you a hypothetical.

If we decided we wanted to pay off the four and a half million over five years, that rate increase would be a lot higher than 2.5 percent.

I don't I guess I don't understand that question.

We we you're not paying those cash in the fund balance.

So you'd be saying you want to you want to maintain that higher fund balance that's is that what that's for no, the two and a half percent is we're gonna draw down the fund balance and we also have over over the next several years, five, ten years, we have increased income costs, we have other capital projects.

So this is to make sure that maintain sufficient reserves to do that work in operate as a utility, but it's just for that project.

It's just enough is just for the part that doesn't incorporate the regular increases we would need just for regular stuff.

This is just for that project.

So it's two and a half plus whatever increase we might need in the future.

I I can I can I will double check.

Okay, but I I think before the rate, the the rate results were suggesting very minimal increases for anyone, so less than two and a half is a two and a half percent annual for like the three to four years that we're building, designing and building the thing, or is it ongoing?

We're gonna have the we're gonna have to get back to you.

Yeah, we we talked to the consultants yesterday, and this was a fast turnaround, and I think we've got a few more things to clarify.

So we'll be back in November.

I don't think that we have to have that feedback to address question, yeah.

Right.

Okay, so I agree.

Yeah, I I think it's really, I mean, I think just we I know I know it's really hard to ask this of you when we're kind of getting complete information, but again, it's just it's kind of what assumptions do you want us to make as we move into CIP development.

Do you want to put us to put this project in the mix given its connection to another large council goal project?

You're not again, we're not saying we're not gonna you know hold you to it now.

You're building a pump station and you're accepting 2.5%.

It's just we want to make sure we are proceeding with the direction that you've all given us, and and we can bring back things like what are what's that um if we have to prioritize a PM for this, what might fall off?

So we can we'll have a little bit more about that in your lever, but it will definitely affect we we just won't we won't have to pass it unless you want to add an FCE how to bring on another project manager.

I think yeah, I that's so there's there's a delay of other project.

The other thing I just want to mention is we have a lot of work.

Um we got a paper of water tree, it's gonna be very expensive, then there's gonna see some significant impacts to the rate of payers of water portion of the bill, and ways to reduce that is to take advantage of say drinking water, loan funds, go on grants, but also use out of cash that you have within the city that you don't borrow, perhaps internally and borrow at lower at lower interest rates or hearing it costs.

So that's why it says reduces the ability of sewer to loan to other utilities.

We could internally borrow at a lower interest rate than we got well, so we can effectively use that four and a half million also to pay for water and the water button would have to factor that that interest cost in principle pay the works water bad, but it would be a cheaper, so it's sort of part of that bigger fix, bigger books.

Um there are some things that I think our residents are willing to pay a dollar more for in general.

If we went out for a bond on the walk of the park, uh we talk about a program like safe that builds sidewalks across our neighborhoods, our people's uh talking about a project of kill off people have been doing for a long time.

I think our people would support that.

I would say I think it's important that before we make a sitting on something like this, November, like throw it out to engage.

I'd be curious to see some process like that is a little more robust to get it feedback.

I also really the two elements that to me are not addressed.

First, I want to understand the deprioritization.

What would it look like?

We're talking about right now, not adding it into a future CIP, but amending our existing CIP and dropping something in November.

But that's what there's no actually next budget next biennium sex funding.

Okay, okay, but then we have to drop something on this CIP or something.

It would be both, right?

It would it would be pushed out potentially.

We're gonna come back to that's that's the question she's asking.

But I mean, it's you know, should like incorporate this project into further planning.

So those that planning is gonna be those results, yeah.

That's where I'm unclear.

I don't know what this requirement is like.

The second part that still is like this is the biggest thing that happens to me.

I talked to Neil twice.

I don't quite understand it.

Why is the project doing this versus us how like I I think we agree?

We have a great question.

And I think I think what so um you can you could give us a few different press direction.

You could say move forward, put it in the CIP because we want to see further rate analysis, we want to see further trade-off analysis, but also go back to that project team and really push or incorporating it into the Breaker project.

You could say, don't spend more staff time on it for the CIP.

We want you just to push on the project, or you could say stop pushing on the project team, give them a break, put it in our CIP.

And and you don't have to, you're not making a decision tonight.

We just want to make sure this all takes down time.

This all takes staff time in it, and we we want to make sure we aren't proceeding in either these project team negotiations or our CIP development out of line with where the majority of council would like us to be.

So when you say go back to the project team and push, are you talking about pushing for the cost of it to be incorporated in the overall project?

Or are you saying I mean, are you saying push on who engineers it and who designs?

I think it's both, but I think honestly, what causes us probably a little more heartburn right now is the capacity piece.

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm gonna work to answer that question on my end.

Um with the with the increase, I I I worry about that just because this was a project I explained to you as well.

This was a product that was supposed to be funded by grants, not at any time we're residents supposed to be on the right.

What I understand um how this project is always presented.

It's goal is not a grant funding project, or we're losing that here.

It could be hard as a 2025 cost.

Um so even with a modest income.

So let's say okay, we're okay with that.

Then the next issue is a delay of other projects.

We just have presentation about this.

And I don't know.

I think people would be interested in the not interested, but they'd be willing to do the fee increase.

But I don't know how willing they would be to delay more projects that have already been delayed.

See, I think that's kind of where I'm concerned too.

Because this I this project was never intended for us to take a chunk of what this off.

It was never presented to the council that this project was gonna have was gonna incorporate that.

Um I'm for the project, but I I'm just not for it.

I I don't like how it's working, what is morphing it because now it's starting to take up more of our staff time.

Now it's gonna cost us more money, and it was never intended to do that.

When I talked to me, I'd explain this to him.

I said, Well, maybe we wait till we have a better situation and to further level two.

Because what happens, and and Councilman Asking mentioned this before.

Why don't we all get grants to complete the project?

We're on the hook.

We are on the hook, and we also means we just put in a lift station instead of having a gravity money, and now we're gonna have to maintain entire lifespan.

And again, I just want to say tonight we're not just having it.

Right, look up at the further analysis.

I just I just don't because it's gonna cost us to have to move projects off, I'm not able to do that.

So you would like us not to even do further put it further.

I just I just don't think I'm just not willing to take projects off of instead of sitting there.

I mean, we have so many people up here for 29 greenway and so many projects that were eight plus years delayed, even neighborhoods or wait for a lot of things to be done.

I don't think it's fair to make them wait again because there was a wrench thrown into this whole thing that none of us anticipate, and I just don't think it's fair.

So I definitely see it differently.

Um I agree the summer line is a wrench that nobody saw coming, but I don't think anybody ever said Milwaukee won't have to be up any money for this project.

I mean, Milwaukee didn't see money in the beginning.

Um yes, there's hope that uh uh there's the bulk that gets paid for my outside uh you know, my federal or state or other money, and it's the 10 million dollar metro.

I mean uh metro money, that was the 16 million dollar money.

I mean um but nobody ever said like it's not gonna cost a Milwaukee another time.

Um the other thing is I mean, the project the fund the current funding, the IGAs or whatever have money that is set aside for Milwaukee, and maybe in negotiation of you know future any future funding that comes in, we need to negotiate for a higher save of that.

But I don't think anybody uh ever you know promised us it was not gonna cost a problem.

I would say that oh, you guys are I mean, did anybody anticipate us paying four and a half million and having to increase rates two and a half percent per year?

No, and that's where I do think um, I mean, I guess like I said before, I'm hopeful there's some outside funding sources to do this.

That doesn't address the stack capacity piece, but I think in terms of the rate impact piece, I'd like us to keep sending it and keep exploring what those funding things are.

It seemed to me that the Washington Council and the other project partners were offering to help uh us with some of those funding pieces, and so I think we should take them up on that.

Um to leave the staff capacity piece, this burger piece.

I do think you know whether it happens in 2027, which is what they're you know, still shooting for, or whether it happens in 2030 or 2032, this project is gonna happen at some point, and we are maybe need to move that.

So how much more do you think it's gonna be by 2030?

It's already a hundred million project.

Well, how much more do you think that's gonna cost five?

Well, that's what we should do it now.

But if you do we don't have to do it, that's what I'm saying.

Like if it's not something that has to be done right now, people okay.

So I'm hearing one for yes or for further study and one for no.

A regular talk.

So uh yes, I'm uh for incorporating this project and further planning the budget, and the reason that I owned this, and although I'm you know expired while this has become the issue for this point.

I know I just that's like uh just I don't know, I'm not sure.

Well it came about this way, but uh in the grand scheme of things, I just think that this this project is too important, not only for parts of green space, but for economic development, okay, because this would be uh a huge draw.

Um it would be a model of you know for uh restoration of a natural habitat uh you know that was you know ruined a hundred years ago, you know, and um I think it could just eventually be you know the defining feature of the city, so that we have a free-flowing sand habitat running through the permanent area, and uh I just think not only would our residents love it, uh because it's it's not just gonna be there's gonna be a restoration of the natural area, and um you know, and it just has some no-called economic development.

So, yeah, I'm for this, you know.

I understand that the uh the issues with staff planning.

I don't think we're at the point where making we're making major trade-offs just by continuing this planning and budget development.

It's it's I think it's a it's a it's an investment in a direction I would like for us to proceed up.

I'll talk so much Rebecca.

I'll let you go if you want to then you know I'm gonna make this book.

Uh I think the moment that it became uh a priority project by applying for a grant, getting the current, or not, you know, like getting the federal funding.

I and joining a project team, I think there's an implication that Milwaukee would have something to pay.

Even very early on in the conversations about staffing and staffing allocation to the project team, there's an assumption by being a project partner that there's something that we will have to contribute.

What sucks is that we don't have a whole lot of capacity to contribute.

Um, and so this is uh I mean it's not just the struggle with this project, it's a struggle with a lot of projects, and uh I just don't know how many superhero capes you're expected to keep in a closet.

Um because you've really done face a lot with some huge projects over the last couple of years.

Um so I think that I think that we move forward with um some staffing capacity to look at what what this timeline, what's the feasibility of this timeline?

I feel like that's we are um a direct we we receive direct benefit from this project.

There's been huge investment.

Um I think that even though perhaps it wasn't explicit, um there I feel like there was an implication that we would at some point be expected to pay a portion of the project, but paying for the money.

But that's that's a means to an end.

So in order to keep the balance over a course of I don't know how many how many years do they estimate the rate increase?

Well they activate like planning back in.

Okay, so let's say that's over the course of 10 years.

Um at some point the rate increase for this project is not necessary any longer because the amount of revenue in the reserves will have replenished.

Like basically you want to make sure that you're keeping like that net change at zero, and so over the course of this project, then that that rate increase goes away.

Um I'm surprised that it's only 2.5 honest.

And and that is because we have that out.

We have that so that's they're we're we're taking cash that we have like yeah, and even as well.

So and front loading, you know, then you get the benefit of today's cost or you know, next year's cost versus 10 years from now cost of doing the project.

But didn't you guys say that there wasn't like a time, right?

Is that's what mean again?

Yes, it is so you have to well, so it's not to pay back the yeah, it's to keep it from dipping below the reserve or future costs, future capital from and all our future expenses from dipping below her minimum reserves, cash reserves, right?

So we take a big chunk that we have in there, yeah.

Uh we're taking that reserve, which would perhaps mean we don't have to be like this last two years we're just increased, right?

So it's like in your family budget.

If you have an understanding that you're gonna have like you know, 100 bucks in the bank at all times, emergency fund, and you know that there's some expenses coming in that are gonna dip into that hundred bucks.

Well, then you start taking on some extra side jobs or like selling off some things that no, no, no.

I'm just saying, like the 2.5 makes it so that you could stay at that policy limit and get that limit.

Oh that's like viable Apple and Orange.

Still I also I um I think council president's gonna get the last word, but I think we got three now say move it forward for further analysis.

Um, so we can we can do that.

We're gonna answer more questions on rates, we'll come back.

And I go back to like the shadow column of of political direction.

I mean, there's there's some science here, but at the end of the day, it's policy choices.

And so what this just sets us up for is getting some more information and informing you to help make a policy decision when you adopt this.

I mean, barely leave that finding moving forward with the CIP.

I think I really take on the rate increase.

My understanding was we need to earn back money to quickly get back to our policy minimum, and then over time that additional money that we're making over a year helps defray future increases because that will cover some like inflationary expenses.

So in the short run, that additional funds being each year will help us build back to the policy minimum over time that provides us having to re increase.

That's wrong, the wrong interpretation up to now.

You don't have to answer today, but that is kind of the assumption that I think.

Two and a half percent allows us to expend the what we've got currently programmed for CIP and our future over the cost without if they below the cash special, so that's what that does.

Sure.

That does not answer the question as to whether that increase would be indefinite or over a fixed appropriate time, but it's gonna be over the fixed period.

Okay, like five.

Sorry, I mean, generally you do these rates since for the five period.

You're looking at that, but we'll verify that that that hasn't put yeah, and I think I mean it's obvious that it's fine.

There's clear heartburn about that.

So we'd love some more understanding.

I think my larger thing that I would say here is I firmly do not understand why it is not the project delivering this project, and I'm fine to come to the table with money.

I don't disagree that that in the same way that we're asking a lot of other people to come to the table with money.

I think it's our obligation to come to money.

Why like if we had to write a 4.5 million dollar check and say probably can deliver that to means within like much more useful than obligating us to change our existing plans to deliver this project, and I think that it would be really clear to the project team that I don't know if this is a majority of council statement, but like we really expect a project team to deliver this, not for our staff to over this, or we want some clear than why it has to be our staff to do this.

I'm not opposed to like I realize that the project will not be done if we don't come to the table partner to see a P or having this conversation again of members support stuff about it, but I really would push back hard at support teams to try and offload this project up to us, even if it's not a like we will help financially, but the operations part of it delivery that's not okay.

Okay, um, that makes some sense to me, except earlier tonight.

Yeah, Jennifer made the point about how when you only have a consultant, there's staff time involved.

And isn't that kind of what this would be like that would you wouldn't just say you guys designed a bill that we're not there would still be staff oversight, maybe a project delivers it, then I'm not expecting to have um inspectors, all of those types of things like it is less of a burden.

Okay, um, so I mean that is my partner said they deliver it because they they'll they'll hire a consultant to do all those things all the right away, all the you know, the acquisition um plan for all of that.

Yes, we're still no matter what we're involved with the dam removal project, right?

We were there is staff already.

If we did on this project, then we're fully now having to run everything, run the contacts or a time things game, so it's a bigger burden to have it in-house and have them take it.

So and I guess the thing that I would say related to this is I've predicted expression from Neil and the product team that they would like to have staff more present of their meetings or designing scoping.

I don't know the specifics, but he said there's a point in which we want staff to be at the table, and I not knowing what our staff would say that I'm all for that, but I think my expectation is the staff are involved that way, not delivering these projects, and I think it's important that we send that signal as a council to our project team.

I I think that well, said council president, I will say staff are at the table.

Staff are at the table.

Um we have we're a small city delivering a broad mandate of things, and I feel confident that we are providing the absolute max capacity we possibly can right now in this project.

I think with the direction we have tonight, you're gonna see further um analysis from our team of what providing even more in the way of managing a project would look like for our CI delivery and for rates, and then we can take this conversation down the road.

We can also continue in our negotiations with the project team, emphasizing and inviting them to come watch that.

Is feeling some consternation about this because we are a small city with many priorities.

We love this project, we want to see this project happen.

That is not at all in doubt.

It's just a five million dollar CIP project, is a big deal to a small city.

I'm not against the project.

I know that it's going to be an economically when it gets completed, and that could be here still.

Um that's what we're considering you know, with everything else we've got going on, just by not giving the time for us to do it.

I have nothing against I love the project supported it through.

I love what it said too, but taking it into consideration of where we are right now, country federal government funds.

So is a project in economic if it never gets right now.

It's not up to us if it gets that's all that that's all my points.

So we I think have marching orders.

Um, and again, if anyone's watching, I'm sure someone's watching.

We love this project.

We're we're all in, but we just we I think I said to a few of you would be very mad at me if you come see IP adoption time.

You saw a five million dollar project on it that I hadn't talked to you about.

So thank you for letting us stay like this and have some of these tough and complicated and promoted conversations, but we will continue to move forward with putting it into our analysis and our considering further CIP discussions with law.

Next slide.

Uh one more, but that's okay.

Oh, just where we are on CIP.

Right.

So we've we've had these discussions with budget committee.

Uh I think November, you know, we're targeting having some more sessions on the prior revenue list, having that sort of burden flashback would be this stop during the next next day, but we're really looking at having that full draft in February.

But it's it's sort of fully it's financially sound, and it's it's clearly related with well, the going through the budget process, so we're gonna double the last uh several budgets uh having that discussion with the budget committee, so that doesn't have the budget committee.

Yeah, uh a lot of work goes still to still go to make that happen.

fully it's financially sound and it's it's nearly related going through the budget process so we're gonna look down to the last uh several budgets uh having that discussion with the budget committee so that budget committee yeah uh a lot of work though still to still to go to make that happen so that was that okay I have one thing I want to bring up um not about not about budget um but going back to Harvey Street actually um so in 2020 after the murder of George Floyd and the reckoning around names of places and statues to people and stuff I always have had in the back on my head like who are some of our who are you know do we have people that we have places saved after that you know have baggage um have not had a lot of them brought to my attention um but I did this last week um so this is a 1977 supplement to the you know whatever the paper was at the time um it's full of some interesting stuff in fact uh the mason family who owns the farm around where basin the hill and all that so it it does explain uh a fair amount of uh it explains a few um streets like uh the streets of boyd bathroom and kelvin are named for the developer sons um the uh and then yeah ban water anyway um there's one bad story in here and it's got hard Mr.

Hardy and Mr.

Harvey uh was tried in 1910 for the murder of a family of four um he uh he was acquitted um there are and there's just a little short piece on that in here but if you google it there's still a lot of information about Mr.

Harvey and that trial and that murder um I don't know what we can do with that you know we talked about naming policy not really about streets um renaming a street that people have looked on for a hundred years was not something you do lightly um but I did want other people to be aware of that history um because I found it kind of troubling um yeah thank you for sharing that mayor and I again I don't want to get too into the weeds but when we bring this naming policy we've talked a little bit about should it apply to streets should it not and I think we street naming is a much bigger thing Jen's like don't touch my street naming but I will say I might for exactly but I will say we we've talked about this kind of particular case a case where there is a renaming needed for uh reason I sometimes would want our the same policy where we the equity staring committee in the park to address so I think October 21st when we talk about that this is you set us up nice for a good case well and I was gonna ask staff to scan this turn around to everybody because you might find interest other than that nicer tidbits in here that you find interesting um ball told me she thinks it's already I did a quick search and I didn't find it where I thought it was okay um so I'll take it just okay yeah right Portland Rainy Peter Travis and I imagine that's a long street in Portland so yeah yeah yeah it's got already okay not that off of my chat better Harvey yeah yeah questions for questions for Jen or Peter I love the work instead of thank you for all review can't wait until you look very removable wait till the whole thing they have delivered okay some other things for the council reports but yeah all right I got a quick on the audit committee uh met last night um in the continuing movement of uh corporate consolidation with Moss Adams and now baker till you uh so they've got their business cards I guess um they had their um audit entrance uh which uh began in August where they uh about the internal controls uh we've heard this before is that they take a risk-based approach but not costing every dollar uh that they're just trying to understand risk like uh uh overrated controls uh uh revenue recognition they have a long list of uh things they go through the the timing is that uh they will be back in november for the final feedback uh for the submission in January they have not discovered any anything uh significant this form just like last year um i really like the way that they do this they not only have uh two uh members who are leading on the project but they have a remote person who's down in medford who kind of audits the auditors you know and keeps everything honest so i i really appreciate that

They'd have a long list of things that they go through.

The timing is that they will be back in November for the final feedback for the submission in January.

So I really appreciate that.

And this is a band of more and more, I think it is, so we never see, but does get a workforce.

And one of them is to establish a liability recognition for leave that they expect people to take.

This is a little bit different from I thought it might be, you know, the bank of uh leave that people, you know, carry on their accounts and then cash in when they retire.

That's completely different, covered by contracts, it's already recognized.

Um but this recognizes uh uh you know folks uh you know who might be taking the uh a good chunk of uh PTO and then you've got a hole that you can't uh uh their jobs can't be done and that kind of thing.

And so I'm not sure exactly how they go about that.

Uh but any rate they're trying to sort of the new gap standards of the uh second one is uh uh a recognition of what they call uh concentrations of constraints.

And they said uh what happens if you have a major employer go bankrupt or boobs and your uh business taxes go way down.

Um that's uh you know, that's not really identified as a risk currently in the gap, and so that's kind of important.

Kind of ties into what we're doing economic development wise.

Uh the mayor put together some questions, and one of those questions is how's your business doing?

What's your outlook?

Kind of like that.

So maybe we go around, we'll uh uh get some feedback on that.

I think that's particularly important uh because the economy seems to be slowing down, you know.

So that might mean some layoffs, and I'm not sure it would mean any relocation of businesses, but I mean if you think about you know, Megat or Oregon Tool or Precision Cash Parks, that would be a big deal if they closed or moved or something like that.

So uh that's something we don't have a lot of visibility into, so that's kind of appropriate.

I'm not sure how they build that into the audit, but I thought it was an interesting uh new uh requirement committee in the gap uh requirements.

It's about held by miss through some yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Um I had a couple of council reports before I get to those.

I wanted to say something and follow up to last week's discussion.

The council um council president and I met on Thursday last week and had a good discussion.

Um I still feel like I would want to stand up and defend myself when a buddy, my position is misrepresented, but I think in the future I will uh approach him first and give him a chance to make a correction that happens hopefully what happened.

I also do think I was uh unfair in uh one part in particular, which was uh accusations of him taking credit for things that uh you know the council as a holder doing or that have existed forever.

I went back and reread his um his emails, and I don't think that's uh a regular uh recurring uh issue there.

So um I do apologize to you for that because I do think I I mischaracterized that session line.

Um beyond that, I just want to quickly tell people um today I got to go on the tour at place and see recycling facility.

Um it was uh I mean it's a very nice large facility.

Uh they did offer if anybody who wants to have a tour that we could already arrange our own tour.

This was like people there for a ribbon cutting and so the tour we got was really very truncated, and I didn't feel like I learned a whole lot about how it works.

Um is the potential to go back again.

Um take a tour, you know, have a tour range for us if we wanted it.

I don't know.

I'm not particularly motivated to arrange that, but anybody else is I I can hook you up and work with them to um to set that up.

Um uh and the other thing was the League of Orbit Cities Conference is coming up.

I hope people will go.

It's in Portland, so it doesn't mean having to leave your family and go stay in a hotel.

Thursday.

Yep.

Yeah.

The other thing going on at LRC is they are forming their policy committees, and I have never served on one of those policy committees, so I'm a little bit um, you know, it's a little bit say do as I say and that as I do, I guess.

But um formerly, umba, former councillor Heisey, different people have served on their policy committees before.

There's like six or eight of them, topical, and they are sort of how they start this fall and they meet through the next summer, and it's how they form their legislative agenda for 2027.

So I do encourage people to think about trying to volunteer.

I think a lot of those are Zoom meetings.

I don't think you go to had to go assignment for them or anything.

Um, so I do encourage people to think about serving an LOC policy committee.

Um Joseph and I will be attending Mayor.

Are we gonna do the mayor, city manager, do a plan game?

You volunteer, yes, just do it.

There is a on day one, a newlywed style game between with city managers and mayors.

How well do we know each other?

Oh, you're rushing.

Well, that is we'll bring on the crowd.

Are we gonna have preparation sessions?

Yes.

Yeah, we have much offering the spotlight.

In addition to that, just another note of tours.

Scott has enough two emails, uh, one about um a new poll for touring Johnson Creek water check council project, and the other why am I blanking on it?

Oh they offered a tour.

Yeah, these are sponsors.

It's a regional park, so wait.

That's not the grand, I thought it was I saw the grand opening, wasn't that?

That's October 18th.

Yeah, this is about three or four weeks before that was in late September.

Okay, um, they're offering us it's a noontime thing uh tour.

Actually, um, yeah, yeah.

Um it's funny because I hit them up to give us a give you guys a tour.

I had that tour with the DAC months ago, and I hit them up to give you a tour like back in May.

It's taken this long, but I think one.

I don't know who else is, I don't know if it's just a tour for us or if it's a tour, but they're getting a lot of people.

I have no idea.

Yeah, spam goes.

By the way, the DAC meets tomorrow on system plan.

So if anybody wants to send me any comments on this copy so that's I rewrite that the uh the two the three uh time the phases or we're not included in the public material.

No, they haven't amended.

You mean the thing about near term literally they have not amended that at all because they are uh it's a little frustrating.

They are um uh they don't want to pay for two rounds of amendments from their contractor, so they are taking uh we are the DAC is commenting on the draft that's posted back in June.

And then after our comments tomorrow, they will do a revision that goes to the county commissioners.

So the onus, I guess, is on us if we don't like what changes after tomorrow to uh go to the county commissioners.

Um because there's a shadow political call.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and uh one of our park members is gonna uh attend tomorrow, but uh hopefully she'll be we'll have a second point to the DAC so anybody else.

We have studied so much.

We have very sweet done.

This was a long study century.

So we are a turn.

Sure you don't want to do regular session right now, too?

Yeah, that's a growth.