Good evening, everyone.

Thank you so much for joining us this evening.

I'm Ella Karachian, the project manager.

I'm joined tonight by Eric Anderson, the planning manager and our consultant team, Paige and Turnbull, Christina Dykis Brubs, and Hannah Simonson.

As you may know, the City of Mountain View is updating the historic preservation ordinance and register.

And as part of this effort, we have conducted an intensive survey of properties, and we have prepared a draft list of privately owned properties that appear to be eligible for listing in the local register.

Tonight, we are here to give you some background information on the process and answer your questions.

We will uh start with the roughly 15 minutes presentation and we will spend the rest of the time answering your questions.

We are recording this meeting, and uh we will be available on YouTube in a few days.

Uh uh, what does what is the purpose of this uh virtual QA?

This presentation will talk about what it means to be listed on a historic register, including the potential costs and benefits.

We will also identify additional opportunities for you to provide input to this project.

And mostly we are here tonight to inform you about this process.

Some of you may know a lot about it already, but others may be hearing about it for the first time.

Um why do cities engage in historic preservation?

There are many reasons, but uh, four primary ones are listed on this slide.

It will help retain historic buildings and neighborhoods that make the city unique.

It helps to preserve uh there is a replaceable uh architectural theatre features and materials.

It may also help to maintain and the community character in older neighborhoods, and it can also help avoid sending materials to landfills.

And then I think Christina is going to go over the mixed field slides.

Thanks, Ella.

Uh, again, my name is Christina Dykus Bropes.

Um, I'm a principal at Page and Turnbull.

We're an architecture and planning historic preservation firm based in San Francisco.

And we also have an office in San Jose.

Um, and we've been working with the City of Mountain View on this project for a couple of years now.

Uh so um just to start out, uh, why is a historic resource ordinance and register update in Mountain View necessary?

It provides more clarity and certainty on what historic resources exist in Mountain View.

Um, we'll talk about this a little bit more in this presentation.

Um it identifies eligible historic resources for more efficient project review for environmental review, and I have a slide a little bit later specifically about that.

Some properties have become what we call age eligible since previous historic surveys or register updates.

Um, age eligible means that they've become 50 years old, which is a threshold that we often use for potential historic significance.

And so, if uh a previous historic study, historic survey was done, let's say 20 years ago, there are properties now that um may have become 50 years old that we want to take a look at and see if they have historic significance because they just haven't been uh reviewed before.

And then lastly, the ordinance uh will be updated with clarifications and improvements, including permitting and incentives, and we're just starting to on the path of um of considering what updates we'll want to make uh for the historic preservation ordinance.

So uh we'll start with some of the basics and then get a little bit more detailed about um Mountain View's program and what this may mean for you and your property.

So to start out, uh there are three levels of historic designation.

Uh, there's the National Register of Historic Places, the California Register of Historical Resources, and the Mountain View Register of Historic Resources.

They have similar criteria for um for eligibility.

And so uh you've been invited to this presentation because in our uh survey of the city of Mountain View, we've identified that your property uh appears eligible under at least one of these um for at least one of these historic registers.

Historic resources can be individual properties, or there can also be historic districts that are identified that would be comprised of many properties with a similar historic significance that they all contribute to.

So what is a historic resource?

Historic resources can be significant in association with an important event, an important person, a distinctive example of an architectural style, construction type or work of a master designer architect, or for archaeology or information potential.

These are basically the criteria for potential significance in each of the historic registers.

And a property can be found significant for one or more of these reasons.

It just depends on the property.

It doesn't have more significance if you are significant for an association with an important event and architecture.

It just means that you have different reasons for significance.

And then to be eligible for a historic register, you not only need to have historic significance that has, you know, historic research that supports that finding, but also what we call integrity, which means that the property retains physical features that convey its reason for significance that was identified, as well as that period that the significant era, the period of significance associated with that property.

And then as I mentioned before, properties are typically evaluated for potential historic significance after they are 50 years old.

It's not a hard and set rule for some of these registers, but 50 years is often thought of as the threshold for being able to have sufficient distance, historical distance and perspective to be able to identify historic significance.

So sometimes you may have properties that are less than 50 years old that are particularly significant.

One example was that I can think of is we evaluated the Trans America pyramid before it turned 50 years old, and there was clear significance there.

A little bit more information and definitions.

So like a nomination process.

So if somebody wanted to be designated locally and on the national register, they'd have to go through the each process separately.

And here's just an example before I go to the next slide of 201 Castro Street, which is the Red Rock Coffee building, and it is designated on the Mountain View Register currently, but it also has been found eligible for the National and California registers, but it's not currently designated on either of those registers.

So another thing, another topic to bring up that relates to why we want to conduct a historic survey of properties in Mountain View.

This is the California Environmental Quality Act or CEQA.

This is a state law that's been around since 1970.

It identifies and or its purpose is to identify and minimize impacts to the environment.

And there are a number of different aspects of the environment that are reviewed under CEQA or can be including air quality and soil quality and biological resources and some other things that you may think of as part of the environment.

But also looped into CECOA is historic and cultural resources, so historic buildings as well as archaeological resources.

So CEQA applies to resources that are listed or eligible for listing on any of the historic registers.

And it's triggered by discretionary permits.

This is one the city has a purview of making some decisions about your project that you may bring to them with an application.

And this includes historic preservation permits.

So a little bit more about CECA in Mountain View.

Single family and duplex projects in standard residential zoning districts do not trigger CEQA unless the property is already a historic resource.

Commercial institutional, industrial, and multifamily properties that have projects may require discretionary permits and some level of CEQA review.

So this is an important thing to note because the city would require a property owner, particularly for these commercial institutional and so on properties, to hire an architectural historian and conduct a historic resource evaluation or prepare a historic resource evaluation.

If you have a proposed project that will need to go through discret discretionary review with the city.

And by doing this historic resources survey, the city has taken it upon themselves to take on the burden of doing those studies.

So not only is it alleviating the property owner from needing to do that, but it also just sets up the property owner with already knowing whether you have a historic resource or not, so that you have more knowledge going into your project.

So those are some of the benefits that the city was seeking when starting to undertake this project.

All right, I'm going to pass it over to my colleague Hannah.

Hi, thanks, Christina.

I'm Hannah Simonson, uh cultural resources planner with Paige and Turnbull.

Um shifting to discuss the current Mountain View Preservation Ordinance briefly.

This ordinance was originally adopted in 2004.

So it's been around for a little while.

The ordinance establishes both the criteria and process for designation to the Mountain View Register of Historic Resources.

And it also outlines the historic preservation permit process that applies to certain types of alteration projects for properties that are on the Mountain View Register.

And the ordinance also outlines a number of benefits and incentives that historic properties can take advantage of if they are designated on the register.

So this slide is taking a look at it's it's a lot of information to digest, but this is a list of properties that were evaluated as part of the survey effort that was just undertaken.

So the properties that we surveyed included properties that are already currently listed on the Mountain View Register, and that purpose was just to confirm that they still retain still meet the eligibility requirements in terms of significance and integrity.

Sometimes properties change over time.

So we just want to confirm their eligibility and also document that history for the record.

Again, just updating that documentation.

If they had either previously been identified for one of the historic registers, or if we identified them during our initial reconnaissance survey when we were drawing, we drove every street in Mountain View and identified some properties, some commercial or institutional and multifamily properties that looked like they had the potential to be eligible, and then did more detailed research on those.

So this project is has a number of phases.

So at the we're currently at the stage now where we have with the city have put out a draft list of eligible properties.

So that's why you all have been notified and are here today.

The council, city council will be reviewing the historic resource criteria in the updated ordinance, which could affect certain properties.

One update to the ordinance would likely include clarification about what the threshold for integrity is to be eligible for the register.

The city council will then approve the final updated criteria as well as the updated local register of historic resources.

The current ordinance does allow property owners to voluntarily remove themselves from the register at certain points.

But that removal from the register has, in some ways, minimal benefit to property owners as CEQA can still apply.

So there still can be some level of historic resource review that a property has to go to.

And if a property removes themselves from the register, they don't have access to any of the incentives that are available to historic resources.

So Christina talked about eligible and listed or designated resources.

If a property is eligible for the Mountain View Register, but isn't listed on the register, they then you won't wouldn't get access to any of the local incentives.

So to get to get those benefits, you need to actually be on the register.

And so what are those benefits?

I think one of the most appealing property or programs that Mountain View has for historic resources is the MILS Act program.

It's a property tax reduction program that you essentially enter into a contract with the city and get a reduction on property taxes in exchange for using those savings to perform maintenance and rehabilitation tasks to offset the kind of potential costs of maintaining a historic resource over time.

Some other incentives that are currently in the ordinance that anyone could take advantage of if they're currently on the register.

There can be some code alternatives under the state historic building code, for example, if a building doesn't meet certain, let's say code requirements like a commercial building, for example, this could come up.

There can be certain exemption exemptions made based on the fact that it's a historic building, like widths of doors or certain accessibility things or that kind of thing.

And we also would note that there's been many studies of historic resources and historic neighborhoods over time.

And often the quality of historic character in an older neighborhood can increase property values.

So that's sort of a that's not in the ordinance, but that's just another point that we like to bring up.

And I would also note that this project is will include an update to the ordinance.

So we would be evaluating additional incentives, which is something that we would love to hear from the community about.

And I think we'll mention later in this presentation what opportunities there would be to provide input on that.

So historic properties are certainly not frozen in time.

We definitely and under the city understands that properties do need to evolve to meet certain, you know, contemporary needs.

And property owners are not required to restore a property back to its original design if changes have been made over time.

There are many types of maintenance projects that don't require any additional permitting, even if you are a historic resource, and that includes interior alterations, repainting, standard maintenance and repair.

If you're removing any non-historic features, um, as well as kind of general landscaping projects.

There are those some uh project types that would require a historic preservation permit.

And those include things like demolition of the building, relocation of the building, um, redevelopment of the site if there's a larger site and um additional buildings are going in on the site that would require a historic preservation permit, as well as exterior alterations or additions.

However, that's not to say that any of those things can't happen.

It's just um a permit is required and it goes through a certain review process.

So the ordinance allows exterior alterations and additions as well as additional development on a site through the historic preservation permit.

The criteria for the findings that need to be made to approve that permit are that the project will not result in a substantial adverse change to the significance of the historic resource, that it still maintains and enhances the appearance of the community, and that it's substantially compliant with the Secretary of Interior Standards for the treatment of historic properties, which is a set of standards that's been established by the National Park Service to ensure that projects allow for change on historic properties while still preserving the overall historic character and distinctive features.

This photo shows an example of a project where a historic house was relocated on its site to allow for the construction of new multifamily housing that's compatible in kind of scale and placement and design.

So there's certainly opportunity for change on historic sites, but it just has to go through this process to make sure that those changes are appropriate.

And I think that I'm going to be handing this back to Ella to talk about the next steps in the project.

Thank you, Christina and Hannah.

Yeah, so we what we are working uh toward now.

Uh we are preparing recommendations to uh the environmental planning commission and city council regarding the historic resource criteria nomination, listing and the listing processes and uh development review processes and also incentives.

Um they will review those recommendations at the upcoming meetings to provide uh direction on the project over its uh final ones as of work.

And um we are interested in hearing your thoughts tonight.

Um, but the focus of this meeting is to answer questions.

Um we are holding another community meeting on September 3rd to hear your feedback on the criteria and draft list uh list of properties and potential process improvements.

Um the meeting will be located at the uh Mountain View Community Center on South Rangsurf Avenue.

Um we will take all those feedback and forward it to Environmental Planning Commission and City Council for upcoming tentatively scheduled meetings.

Um the EPC would be on October 1st, City Council on November 18th, as you can see.

After council um provides that direction, the project team will further develop the ordinance and other policies for final uh approval in 2026.

And um, yeah, tonight we are here to answer your questions, but feel free to contact me with email.

Um, and also we have the updated our project website, which you can access and look at um all the upcoming meetings, previous meetings, videos, and uh all the information that we have.

So I think we're about to jump off into the question and answer process.

Thank you guys so much, uh, Ella and Christina and Hannah for the presentation.

Um let's get to it.

Uh we've got a few people who've raised their hands.

Okay.

Uh and we had one question.

Sorry, go ahead, Ella.

Um we had one person uh actually very early on put a question in the QA.

So let's start with that one.

Uh, what is a preservation easement?

So I'm gonna throw that to our consultants who can probably best explain it.

I think I brought that up, so I can answer that one.

Um, so a preservation easement is essentially a legal mechanism that helps protect a historic resource in perpetuity.

It's one of the strongest mechanisms for historic resource preservation.

Um, it acts sort of like a covenant or restriction that follows the deed of a house.

And essentially you get that through there's certain organizations like the National Trust for Historic Resources and the California Preservation Foundation that um help manage those easements.

So it's not a program that's direct through the city of Mountain View, but it's an option for someone who wants to make sure a property is uh maintained as a historic resource in perpetuity.

But it uh just to add on to that, it requires that a property is listed often on the national register of historic places, but it certainly could help to be listed on the local register.

So in order to even be able to take advantage of a potential easement agreement, you need to have a designated historic property.

Great.

Thank you.

Let's stay in the QA for just a second.

Uh, had a few more people throw some questions in there.

Uh the next question was would be on the register require an ADU to have additional permitting.

Uh I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head.

Do uh the uh Paige and Turnbull folks happen to know there is state law that guarantees uh ADUs on properties uh without additional permits uh from the city.

Uh, but uh I don't know how it overlaps with historic preservation.

So maybe Yeah, I think I think what you're saying, Eric, is is correct that the state law um uh requires um the approval of ADUs, and that would um uh overrule anything that's in the historic uh preservation ordinance.

Currently, there isn't anything specific in the ordinance about ADUs.

Um, it perhaps is something that we could add in to mention one way or another in the update.

Yeah, it's a great thought, and that's something that uh it'd be great to provide additional clarity on.

So thank you for bringing that up.

Uh the next question in the QA is can you discuss in more detail the incentives available if listed on the state register?

I'll throw that to Paige and Turnbull as well.

Do you want me to take that one, Christina?

There.

Uh yeah.

Uh the California and national registers are largely honorary designations.

Um, there aren't as many specific incentives conferred through those registers.

So really um the incentives come at the local level by being listed on a local register of historic resources.

There is a federal um tax credit program, um, but you have to be an income producing property, so that won't apply to um all properties.

And there is a recent state tax credit program as well, but it has somewhat limited funding, and again, it applies to income producing properties.

I I think Hannah that um it does have um uh a segment that uh that can apply to residential properties.

I believe it's different from the federal program.

Um, but it's a new program that is just trying to get off the ground.

So it's uh not not guaranteed to continue funding.

We're gonna see how it goes over the next year or two.

Great, thank you.

Uh the next question in the QA is what does triggering CEQA mean for the owner?

Uh that is a broad and complex question.

Uh, it really depends on what kind of project you're trying to do.

Uh so uh CEQA is the California Environmental Quality Act, as they said in the uh presentation, it happens whenever there's a discretionary permit or some decision that has to be made by the city.

And in the city of Mountain View, most permits associated with development of commercial multifamily and um uh industrial and institutional properties, kind of non-single family properties are associated with the city's decision to approve or deny.

So the city has discretion in those permits.

Um and so that means that we need to conduct CEQA on those permits.

Um what it means for the owner is that if there is a CEQA process that is triggered, it may require uh additional uh analysis to be conducted through that permit process.

And that additional analysis can be relatively brief and just a you know, a small document that doesn't need very much um uh kind of uh review or time uh in front of the public or kind of development of uh as a substantial document with the analysis and alternatives and everything, like there are minor documents and then there are major documents.

The major documents are generally called environmental impact reports, and you need to provide a lot more information in those reports, and they can be very time consuming and costly to prepare.

In general, the ad the project advocate is responsible for paying those costs to prepare for those um those studies.

So uh for an owner who is interested in uh a project that might impact a historic resource, there can be costs in preparing those uh those studies.

Um like I said, on the on the smaller analysis side, uh there may be SQL costs that don't uh get to the level of an environmental impact report, but they would be much more minor analysis obligations uh that would also be borne by the by the project advocate, which is generally the property owner.

Um so there would be costs associated with CEQA.

As uh I think Christina said in her presentation, we are trying to get through one of those costs here just simply by evaluating these resources.

That is that is one step of the overall process.

We can't go any further because we don't know what projects you might want to bring forward and how those projects might affect these resources, but it is a step that we can take on your behalf uh that you would not have to do.

Uh you don't have to do, but you would have to do if we hadn't already identified the resource.

Um, because whenever SQL is triggered, you have to study everything.

You have to study whether it's a historic resource or not.

Can I add a little bit to that, Eric?

Yeah.

Um for projects with like, for example, a single family residence that's on the register and needs to get a historic preservation permit.

If you're doing a project that is compliant with the Secretary of the Interior standards, which means that it's uh not it's not negatively impacting the historic character of the building, then those projects would be considered exempt from CEQA, and that analysis can often be combined with the standard HP permit review process.

So something um like let's say a one-story rear addition that you can't see from the street, that kind of project is generally considered compliant with the Secretary of Interior Standards, and you would be exempt from future or additional CEQA review.

So there's definitely different tiers and um levels of review that may or may not be triggered.

That's an excellent point.

Thank you.

Yes, there are certainly projects that don't need CEQA, there are projects that need just a little bit of CEQA, and then there are projects that need the full-blown EIR.

So if you have follow-up questions about that, happy to answer.

Um the next question in the QA is what is the difference between the draft intensive survey resource evaluation forms and the Mountain View Register of Historic Resources.

What is the purpose of the first document?

That's a great question.

Um so we posted those draft resource evaluation forms online so that people could review them and let us know if we've there's anything that we need to add that's of significant importance about these resources.

That could inform the final register.

So this list is a draft list.

It could be informed by information that the public presents about specific properties that may or may not be on this list.

It could be informed by council goals and priorities.

So they could give us feedback about the project in uh in the upcoming meetings that could inform this list.

And it could be informed by changes to the criteria, uh, which is something that we're seeking feedback on as well.

So our uh our goal is to have in the end of the process, in about seven or eight months.

We're we're hoping to wrap this process up.

Uh, our hope in at the end of the process to have the these evaluation forms, all the evaluation forms that identify register eligibility ultimately be adopted into the Mountain View Register.

Uh the next question is I believe I heard all buildings over 50 years old are on the list consider what percentage of buildings in the city of Mountain View are over 50 years old.

Uh the vast majority.

I mean, uh, I think we calculated that it's something like uh 10 or 15,000 cities over 50 or buildings over 50 years old.

So it is fair to say that probably half or nearly half of all buildings in the city are over 50 years old, at least.

So the consideration here is we are not considering every one of those properties.

We're not considering every one of those properties for a couple of reasons.

One, because a lot of them are um single family homes in fairly homogenous tract subdivisions that are uh would never be triggered, would never trigger CEQA that would force them to identify themselves as a historic resource.

Um there are uh certainly a very small percentage of those uh single family homes in the those um you know track subdivisions across the city um and duplexes and other apartment buildings and and other buildings, the vast majority of those just don't meet significance or integriter for listing.

And so all of the um uh the reconnaissance survey that was conducted by Paige and Turnbull ruled out the vast, vast majority of those buildings uh for analysis.

So of those 10 or 15,000 buildings that may be age eligible, you know, we ended up with the 100 to 120 or so two, sorry, two 200 or so properties that uh have been identified for the next tier.

Uh the next question is again about preservation easements.

Uh once a preservation easement is granted, it stays forever.

That is generally the intention of uh preservation easement.

Um just to further clarify, preservation easements are fairly rare and they are different than Mills Act tax um abatement contracts.

So Mills Act contracts generally have an initial 10-year period and then are renewed annually, but they can be terminated.

So Mills Act contracts are a lot more common.

So just to in case anyone was confusing those two.

Okay.

Um I am oh well, we're the next uh couple questions about Mills Act.

So let's keep with the QA's for a second here, and then we'll jump back to the raised hands after the next two questions.

Uh so the next question is Is the city planning to I think renegotiate the existing Mills Act contracts with property owners?

Um that is uh possible coming out of this, but it is not uh part of this project.

So we don't have that on our uh work plan right now with this project, but certainly we there could be ordinance updates that occur that would um instigate such uh renegotiation.

So that's possible as well.

Um not saying it's not gonna happen, but it it may happen coming out of this project.

It certainly wouldn't happen uh before we adopt the updated ordinance.

And the next one is do Mills Act contracts automatically renew, and I believe that is the case.

Uh and I'm getting agreement from Paige and Turnbull.

Yes, that's true.

Yeah.

Okay.

So uh we've answered quite a few questions in the QA.

Let's jump to the raised hands.

Uh oh, I'll I'll do it.

That's okay.

Uh I think um Jenna, I think you're the first one.

Yes.

Hi.

Um my name is Jenna Yarkin.

I uh I work at a law firm called Holland and Knight.

We represent the umbra family who owns the property at 987 Ringstorf.

Um, this is another question about the draft intensive survey uh evaluation forms.

Um we noticed uh just potentially some factual inaccuracies and the kind of the background about how the property was used, and we're wondering how best to um go around uh go about correcting that or kind of uh documenting that for you.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, this this process is really all about correcting those uh the the record here.

Uh we would love to uh receive an email from you.

We would love to have a conversation with you.

Uh we are we are as interested as you are, I'm sure, in making sure that the record that we bring forward for adoption uh and the what's kind of the the background documentation that that justifies the register is accurate.

Um so uh by all means uh you can reach out to Ella uh for uh and and provide her with your comments, uh, or if you want to set up a meeting with us, we're happy to do that as well.

Great.

Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you.

All right.

Uh and then I believe we have Robert Cox.

So I'll allow you to talk.

Okay, can you hear me?

Yes, we can.

Okay.

My my question was I was chatting with somebody who's on the planning commission and about SQL reform.

Okay.

And he had said, but I haven't been able to find this written down anywhere, uh, that, you know, now that the SQL reform has passed, if a building is going to be considered historic, um, I mean, a building needs to be considered historic before a development proposal is put forward in order for that historicity to be considered.

Okay, you know, in vis-a-vis the development proposal.

I mean, is that right?

Uh well, it depends on the application.

So different applications are going to have different uh CEQA exemptions that they are entitled to.

Uh the most recent CEQA bill, the most CEQA pack recent sequel package, um did exclude previously identified resources from one of the exemptions that they uh that the that was uh adopted by the legislature.

Um and I, you know, I'm afraid I don't know in any great detail the uh extent of projects that would be eligible for that CQA exemption, but it could be a broad range of residential projects.

Okay, I mean I guess the key thing I want to find out is what does it mean has to be deemed historically significant?

I mean, like, are we talking about we talked about different registers, right?

I mean, local, state, national, and we talked about like designated versus eligible.

I mean that makes it a more complicated thing than just a binary, you know, answer, right?

So then how how do we meld you know all these different categories with the idea of is it or is it not eligible, you know, if a development proposal were to come up.

Are you asking specifically about that state exemption or are you asking more broadly?

No, I'm not.

I'm this was just something I was I'm not asking in response to what you said.

Okay, I mean, I'm just oh I see you know, for people who care about preserving a historic building, you know.

I mean, we kind of like would like to know.

I mean, you know, the what buildings around here actually meet this criteria.

You know, so that we're not gonna get because to give you a good example, right?

When the issue came up about the Wildheimer House and uh air based laundry, right?

Those were not at that time designated.

And our group livable mountain view, you know, actually took the time and trouble and money to go up the level to get them designated.

But that was after the development proposal came through.

And we don't want to be caught flat footed, you know.

If I mean, you know, you know, if if this is the new way of looking at things, then you know, we'd like to know ahead of time, you know, what is uh what's eligible.

So we don't end up, you know, not we want to do what we can.

Let's just put it that way.

Well, you're you're absolutely right, and that's one of the big goals of this project is to provide that transparency to the community about our professional best judgment about what properties out there today are eligible.

And uh, you know, we've we've uh done this very thorough survey, uh both reconnaissance and intensive survey uh across the city.

Um and uh the goal of this project is to identify that list of eligible properties so that there isn't that question um uh for uh at least, you know, uh um, you know, until we have to do it again, you know, because at some point more age eligible.

And the goal of this project is to identify that list of eligible properties so that there isn't that question for uh at least, you know, uh, you know, until we have to do it again, you know, because at some point more age eligible process.

Founding like you're saying that there's going to be this list once this process is done.

And then we'll be able to look at the list and that will be a valid list for the purposes of the question I'm asking you.

That's exactly right.

Oh, okay, that's good.

That's right.

Okay.

So then one other follow-up question.

If a property that we might have thought should have been on the list, isn't on the list.

How do we find out why it's not on the list?

And is there an appeal process?

At least during you know, the discussion time before the council certifies the list.

Absolutely.

So that's part of the goal here of this next um uh few months of this process is we are seeking feedback on the list and the criteria.

I think if there is a property that isn't on the list that you think should be on the list, uh you can reach out to us directly and we can uh answer questions about that and uh you know carry on the conversation from there.

But yeah, we'd love to hear your thoughts on whether we got the list right.

Okay, is the draft list available now somewhere?

Yes, on the on the project website, there is a uh document that has in the first probably three or four pages the the draft list, and then in the following you know, 400 pages or so, the analysis supporting that draft list.

Okay, thank you.

Sure.

Uh now we have uh Halla.

Yes, uh good afternoon or good evening, um, Eric, Ella, and uh city consultants.

Um I just want to push uh a little further on uh what Robert was saying.

So as you know, for example, in uh downtown Mountain View, the historic part, the the first three blocks adjacent to um the train stations, um, those have significant uh uh historic uh at least uh to me, historic appeal and and appearance.

And uh from what I remember over a year ago when we met uh also with the consultants' presence, I think they have identified only three of those buildings.

Um that was a while ago, maybe a year and a half ago or so.

Um I see that the scope is a little bit wider, so they are including significant history events and so forth, not just the um the look of the details of the buildings.

And it would be really helpful to have that list.

I know you just mentioned a link that we can see, but since you are, you know, you have this meeting right now.

I think it would have been very pertinent and helpful to see a list of at least the downtown uh uh places.

Maybe you can verbally or someone can verbally tell us how many of those buildings now that are eligible for either of the three different designations of historic status.

Um, just so that we you know, we know what what questions to ask, how to further give input, because if things have changed since a year ago or more, then I think it would be helpful to know that.

Um, and also it would be helpful to know, you know, how many of those homes or you know other buildings, um, but we don't need to know the the exact building, but just give a number, just tell us maybe how many of those uh other places beside downtown that you found uh that would be eligible for for the historic designations.

It's very helpful to know that so that we know what to ask moving forward.

Um I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Well, great.

Thank you.

That's a great question.

I'm glad you asked it.

Uh, I hope you now have an opportunity to review the list on our website.

Uh we'll we'll throw that website back up on the screen as we're closing this meeting.

Um and uh, you know, I I don't know if I can give you accurate numbers right now off the top of my head.

Um, you know, maybe uh somebody, you know, the consultants or or Ella can take a quick look at the list to get a rough number in the you know, the the one to 300 blocks of Castro Street or the rough number of of total properties that we've identified in this uh eligible list.

Um, but I do encourage you to take a look at the list, and then before September 3rd, when we have our community meeting or any time, if you want to email us comments, you can email comments about the list.

Uh we're we will take those at any time.

So um great question, and uh hope we can continue to help you find out more about this project that you may be curious about.

Eric, do you mind if I add a little bit more to that?

Yes, of course.

Um I think that the three property number um probably refers to um a handful of properties that we were writing national register nominations for as another separate task in this project.

We did end up preparing five national register nominations for downtown Castro Street properties, but in addition to those actual nominations, which were a council priority, we did evaluate every single property on the first three blocks of Castro Street and the kind of um the perpendicular, you know, side streets.

And um, so we did evaluate each one of those properties um individually.

And so there are quite a handful.

I don't know the number off the top of my head, but there are quite a handful more that were identified as eligible for one or more of the Mountain View California National Register um registers, in addition to that separate effort of designating um five properties to the National Register.

Yes, that's right.

Thank you, Anna.

Uh okay, moving on to Luis.

Let me allow you to talk.

Thank you very much.

And um thank you for this meeting.

Also, thank you for the five nominations to the Historic Register.

Um I was a little bit shocked and um really saddened to hear your opening remarks that a building does not have to be 50 years old to be considered for historic preservation, because when we approached um the city and various committees for the preservation of the what we will now call the Chase building, except it was originally a home savings bank uh building.

We were told flat out, sorry, it's not 50 years old.

There's nothing that we can do, and we will do nothing about it.

So Mary Hodder and I in Livable Mountain View um provided um our research about this building, uh, complete with pretty pictures.

Um I believe it was built in 1977.

It was a building that was specifically requested by our then city council because home savings was a huge um institution across the state of California and in many other states.

Um they specifically asked for something that would be unique to Mountain View, and that's one of the reasons why we have that beautiful mosaic in the front.

It's about the history and development of our city.

And the unique part, as we pointed out, was the Richardsonian arches that are basically 100% of the facade of the building, including the brickwork, the color of the brick, um, and that we traced for you the fact that the Richard Sonian arches from Henry Hobson Richardson, who was a best friend of uh Frederick La Olmsted, who did Central Park, the Stanford quad, those arches are in the Red Rock Coffee Building.

Um they went right up until um the mid-20th century with Frank Lloyd Wright's Marin County Civic Center, which is 100% arches from top to bottom, all Richardsonian arches.

So we pointed out that among other historic buildings that have Richard Sonian arches, this building brought us connects us to the greatest architects and designers of the 19th and 20th century.

And we were turned away and told, sorry, it's just not 50 years old.

So I would like to know what, if anything can be done.

We've had meetings with the developer and asked him if he could please at least honor the tradition of this building, use the bricks, use the facade, put in arches instead of just you know, basic glass square doorways on the first floor, put arches in the building on the upper floors.

So I would really like to know, and I realize you can't necessarily tell me tonight, but I would really like to know why the city and why everyone told us that 50 years is a is a is a turning point and with it, we can't get around it.

And what we can still do to um preserve as much of this building, including the brickwork, um, as as possible.

I don't believe that they need to even if they're not going to preserve the whole building, and I realize they're not, um, you know, why can we not have the preservation of the facade, the arches, and have it integrated.

the city and why everyone told us that 50 years is a is a is a turning point and with that we can't get around it and what we can still do to um preserve as much of this building including the brickwork um as as possible i don't believe that they need to even if they're not going to preserve the whole building and i realize they're not um you know why can we not have the preservation of the facade the arches and have it integrated you know i recall having dinner in a little plaza in arles um that this massive wall behind our little outdoor table was actually the wall of a Roman Senate you know they managed to turn that into part of a building and we got to have dinner sitting in front of it so there should be all sorts of ways to preserve something as unique as um you know the facade of that building so anyways I I would very much like to to hear about that and um see if we can work with the developer to make something positive out of this because like I said we were just told it's it's 50 years or or nothing.

Thank you.

Well thank you for your comment and I uh you know I'm sorry to hear uh about the um you know that uh uh interaction with the city that uh you know was was clearly uh um um difficult um what I will say about this project this historic register uh uh um and ordnance update project is that we have identified that site as eligible for uh listing in uh historic um in our historic register uh it doesn't change the conversation about the development project which is happening separately um christina or Hannah can you say anything about your findings about the the particular building um i mean without going into the merits of the development project um which is again happening as a separate process a separate decision by the city uh and you know we're none of us here I think are able to speak on the uh issues or merits of that particular development project but maybe we can talk a little bit about what the findings were for that particular property and its uh historic eligibility yeah I can speak to that um we did find the property to be eligible for the National California Register um the we uh uh analyzed it based on the the areas of significance that Louise mentioned it's um a bank designed by Millard Sheets and it was part of quite a large building campaign um of this artist and architect with a number of other artists that worked with the Home Savings and Loan Association over several decades so there's many very interesting and wonderful examples of his work throughout uh the state and we did find that the the Chase Bank in Mountain View was a significant example um of that history and um so that does not automatically result in designation of the property that finding however it did trigger CEQA and so the proposed project is being analyzed for various um alternatives that would um retain certain features of the building which does which could include um the artworks like the mosaic and other features of the building that Louise mentioned so I think I probably don't want to say too much more about that um since I I don't know exactly where that is in the process but that that generally is a process of um sequa to analyze those alternatives and try to mitigate impacts by either um changing a project's design or finding ways to salvage and retain certain aspects of a building on site for for future interpretation uh one more question Louise go ahead yes yes thank you so yes I'm I'm aware of the idea that to save the artwork whatever the fate's going to be of that mosaic the doesn't sound like the developer has been terribly enthusiastic about you know some of the alternatives it might be expensive but to but the the point is not is the artwork is not the historic I mean that the mosaic is because it's integral to the building but the artwork was peek people in his studio the artwork is not historical and the massive um design of all the animals the in in the inside there's no place for that and this building they're going to if anything they will put it inside on a wall where the residents have the only access so the public will never see it again and and there's no way to even protect it.

They've already said we can't protect this thing it's so huge.

But the point is the art is not historical except for the mosaic.

It's the building, it's the arches, it's the brickwork and the color of the bricks.

So that's why I would really hope that there can be some thinking outside the box to use a portion of this facade for if not even a new building, but as part of the public space.

I mean, what I think, you know, they're they're pretending that they're going to make some sort of park-like area, you know, towards uh El Camino.

So, anyways, I I appreciate the fact that you know your group has has addressed that, but the artwork, like I said, aside from some of it just being hidden away, is not the historic part of the building, except for the mosaic.

Thank you for the comment.

Uh, I, you know, I'm sure you um have been able to uh uh reach out to Margaret Neto in our office, who's the project planner on that project.

And uh, you know, if if you need help getting in contact with her, submitting comments about it, we're we're happy to help facilitate that conversation as well.

So uh thank you very much for the comment.

Thank you.

Uh next we'll hear from Peter Katz.

No relation.

Um I'm I'm very sensitive to what Louise has been saying because um, you know, I think that the big question always is for the developers is what can we touch and what can't we touch?

And so I think the degree to which um we can be very clear, um, and by we I mean the city, you know, um, is is critical.

And so um I do know that you know the architects worked very closely with uh a number of folks to make sure that um you know the artwork was preserved, but they also are preserving the arches because that was our architecturally significant.

But I appreciate what Louise is saying about you know the brick, the color, the you know, the whole look and feel.

And so um, I just feel that that you know, in terms of you know, kind of representing business and all that, it's so important to know what can be touched and what can't.

Um, and as an as another example, I thought I saw on one of the slides um 444 Castro, the um eight six-story um structure or whatever as being architecturally significant.

And I remember the uh discussion, I'll use the term lightly um that happened when that building was being built, and there was a lot of public outcry about it.

Um, and you know, it it got built.

And I just would uh really hate for the public to say, oh my gosh, now it's now preserved in in perpetuity and still hate it, you know, kind of thing.

And so I guess the process by which we not only identify buildings as historic, but also as what we really want to see, what we really want to look at every day, um, is is again is is important to to really specify.

Great comments, uh, Peter.

Uh, you know, I'll just say that uh you're you're absolutely right that um, you know, one of the goals of this project is to help facilitate that conversation and provide that transparency about uh the types of elements on a building that are considered historically significant uh and uh should be maintained if you're trying to keep uh that um integrity and consistency with the standards by which we review these these modifications to structures.

Um I'll just throw it to Hannah or Christina, see if there's anything you want to add about that.

You know, we do have on these forms, these evaluation forms, we do have lists of the um the building elements that are considered character-defining building elements.

So go ahead if you want to add anything about that.

Do you have any info on that particular building you might want to comment on?

Oh, not necessarily about that particular thing.

I think there were two comments there.

There's the one about private proper property owners getting some clarity about what features are considered historically significant.

And then there was the other question about um the 444 Castro and kind of political opinion, but starting with the transparency question.

One of the things uh is that we hope is helpful in these DPR forms is that not only do we have the historic context, and one thing we haven't mentioned is the historic context statement.

This was actually the first thing we did this project, which was you can find on the website.

And it is a history of the physical development of the city, and then for each time period of development, the thresholds for criteria and integrity for properties to potentially be eligible for the national, state and local register.

And then we use that document as our framework for the survey.

So there's a lot of information there that we based our evaluations on.

And then with the intensive survey, we conducted some property specific research.

We could only do so much because we were set looking at so many properties.

So that's where you know, if you have some uh corrections, we uh are happy to um to receive your information.

Um there's the the historic context, the evaluation of significance, and then as Eric said, the a list of character defining features.

So these are the physical features that help to convey the significance.

And if you're going to have a project, these are the features that ideally would be preserved, at least in part.

Um, so that list is really helpful when you have a project because you have this idea of what you want to try to um, you know, be sensitive about, while also, you know, anything that's not on that list um is probably opportunity areas of opportunity for change.

Um so it's a great starting point for your projects.

Whenever we're working on projects, we always start with that list of character defining features.

Yeah, great.

Thank you, Christina.

Um, and then I'll just say about the um, you know, the the 444 Castro building that uh yes, ultimately the purpose of a local register is for a community to define for itself those architectural features and resources that it itself deems important for preservation.

And so sometimes uh a local agency will decide that something that even meets eligibility criteria for state or national is not that important to a local community, and uh I think that in kind of implicit in this process is that value judgment.

However, one of the goals that we're trying to achieve with this process is to provide that kind of clarity and transparency to the community about what does meet generally accepted eligibility criteria at the state and national level and provide that transparency to the community broadly and to property owners specifically and list them because that shows consistency among all levels of government and among all levels of of kind of historic review, and of course it it kind of saves everybody uh the level of of um uh uncertainty when it comes to CEQA as well.

Um I will also say that you know, just being listed on a register doesn't protect a building forever and never and ever from from being um removed or modified or relocated.

So there will always be a process, there will always be a way to um to modify buildings with the city's approval if there is something that this the city council uh deems you know an extraordinary circumstance.

Thank you.

Sure.

Uh let's go to Leslie.

Go ahead.

Thanks for waiting.

Hi, thank you.

Um I I think that the first meeting on the subject that I I attended was in 2022.

I've been following this kind of thing all along.

And um when I was at that meeting, and um we were requested to answer questions and send information to people and uh I think the same team that's right here.

Um one of the things I was hearing at that time, and I think it was mentioned just once in one of your um one of your pages, is that a place that has uh a resident or a longtime resident who is of um actually international recognition for his or her art, um, which the his the art has been made here in Mountain View.

Um the house itself is from the earliest part of the 20th century.

Um about 1904, 1910 at the most recent.

And uh the house had to be changed a long time ago, back in the 50s, I the early 50s, I think it is um because it was a it was just a farmhouse.

I you know, and probably took a while to get on a sewage typing, which has been replaced um recently.

So I haven't heard I saw that it was mentioned again that recognizing um not only that the house is historic and much more than 50 years old, but the person who is living here who is uh a well-known artist, probably not to any of you, um some of those things might go together.

So I'm wondering if that is no longer being considered, or whether it's just that um the architecture is more significant to what you're doing, because Mountain Views, Mountain View's heritage, and uh through the years is that this house is in a neighborhood that has changed, and um one of the one of the few houses left from that previous era.

So that's about all I'm gonna say.

But I if you're running out of time, I will write everybody a letter.

Okay.

Well, yeah, we we're happy to hear more details uh about the question.

If you can provide us with an address, you know, offline, we can have that conversation with you.

Um, you know, it I what I thought I heard from you was kind of a question about the relative value of kind of the architecture of a building versus the events or occupants of a building, if that person was particularly important to the local culture, like a like a local artist.

Um certainly the latter is is very important, but there's also this other integrity criterion that we have, which is that the building itself has to be able to convey the um time and place that uh made that uh of the the building's significance.

So if an important uh person or artist lived in this building, the building has to look somewhat like the place where the artist this this neighborhood um has been occupied by people who worked for what was really the largest printing company west of the Mississippi, and um places that I'd seen 20, 25 years ago um have mostly been torn down and turned into larger houses, right?

But this particular house has not had that kind of change.

So the question about history is does history look pretty or does history look like it's historical, meaning representing a time of this place.

Well, uh, yeah, we're certainly not um, you know, uh uh legislating beauty.

That's not something that we're doing in this process.

Um, but I think uh it's a very good question.

And uh, you know, like a uh again, a lot of um, I don't know, maybe very briefly, uh Paige and Turnbull, if you can talk a little bit towards the this question of um, you know, the difference between pretty buildings and historic buildings.

Hannah.

Sure.

Well, I think another example might be the 444 Castro property that just got brought up, you know, not not every building is going to be to someone's personal or aesthetic taste, but it doesn't mean that something important couldn't have happened there, or that it's you know, it could be a really good example of a particular um either construction type or architectural style, and not every style is to everyone's preference.

And not every style is to everyone's preference.

Um, so that can be the case.

But also, I think, you know, maybe partly what a lot what Leslie is alluding to is that buildings um that can be very modest um or kind of unassuming aesthetically, can have really significant associations either with events or particular people.

And we did identify a number of those in this project, including properties that are associated with um cultural communities in Mountain View.

Um and of course, those kinds of things are harder to see or know when you're just driving around doing surveys or identifying properties.

So, you know, we have done a certain amount of research on properties and prepared the context statement that Christina mentioned, but there may be information about uh an owner or a resident that we just weren't aware of, and someone may have information that is not readily available in the record.

So we really appreciate anyone who can send us that additional layer of information.

And there are various standards and criteria by which we assess whether someone rises to the kind of threshold level of significance for which a building would be considered a historic resource.

And there's a lot more information about that kind of that threshold and determination in the historic context statement.

It's sort of the last.

Let me just add one more thing.

Yeah.

I'll I'll just add one more thing, and then I'll go ahead and finish your thought, Leslie.

This isn't going to be the last chance for nominating properties or putting them on the register, right?

Like we know there are things that we've missed, and we would uh uh we are working to develop you know uh policies and procedures for uh future nominations to the local register.

And so I think, you know, even if we we don't have this list exactly right right now, it's not set in stone.

Okay, thank you.

I one of my I would talking first about the artist um who's been there since uh early 70s, I think.

Um 1970s.

And the but this is what people used to live in long back.

And um most of these things have been replaced with bigger homes and all things like that.

So it's it's a small house that has a lot of history.

Yeah.

Of course, thank you for the question.

All right, jumping to the QA.

Uh comment here says in my neighborhood, every house is over 60 years old.

I'm sure that's true.

Um if someone had previously opted off the list, are they able to opt back on?

Um, absolutely.

Uh, there's a um first off, you know, the one of the questions that were one of the uh kind of procedural changes that we're talking about bringing, you know, getting council feedback on here is this uh opt-off provision that's currently in the code.

And so if you stay tuned and uh uh join us at our September 3rd meeting, we'll give you more information about uh the direction that the project may be headed with that.

Um but uh as I briefly told uh Leslie, um there will also be a nomination, a self-nomination process for the city to review your application to go back on the register, and then uh there will be a um you know, council decision to put people on the register voluntarily.

Uh if you are on both city and or state lists, are there more restrictions than if you were just on the city list?

Uh I think I'm gonna throw that to Paige and Turnbull.

Uh no, if you're on both lists, the level of um restriction and process would be the same.

If um so like I said, the getting listed on the California register is largely honorary if you're already on the local register.

And if you do have a project that triggers CEQA, um there's no additional triggers or or review um if you're on more than one register.

Really the SIGA threshold is eligibility for the um national state registers.

So being listed on them kind of does the same thing.

It just means you're a historic resource for the purposes of secret review.

I will say there is there may be an intangible political element to being eligible for state or national lists.

But again, you know, very hard to anticipate what that might be.

Thank you.

Next question.

Can you summarize the benefits that are proposed to be available if on the city register?

What I've heard, Mills Act, property tax reduction, streamlined historic review of a project, anything else.

I think on a slide we had, we talked about the ability to take advantage of the state historical building code, which has some uh more lenient code requirements.

Um, you know, if you're going to upgrade your building, um, the regular code is stricter, and the historical building code acknowledges you have a historic building, and it might be more challenging to make some of those upgrades.

Um, so that's potential plus.

I believe we also said there may be some um permit um what was it?

Something like that.

There's some permit fees that you may be exempted from as well as certain zoning requirements or um like floor area ratio setback type things.

Um, and I think there's also certain provisions to allow um certain kinds of condo conversions um and a few various other things.

They're all listed in the historic preservation ordinance, which is in um the, you know, the city's code, but this a part of this project is assessing what additional incentives might um be added to the ordinance.

So I think the next meeting that Ella mentioned, the upcoming meeting is where we're like very much soliciting that kind of input.

If you're not able to come to that meeting, though, I think that you know we can always get an email.

But some communities have things like transfer of development rights or air rights um or other kinds of um uh allowances uh to to provide additional incentives.

Yeah.

Or just other types of recognition, differ different recognition programs.

Um, so you could think about that too if you have any suggestions.

Great.

Thank you so much.

Uh I think we already answered this one.

Um is this project looking to develop or designate any historic areas or neighborhoods?

Uh so at this point in the process, our goal is to uh determine eligibility criteria for historic neighborhoods.

We have not formally identified any potential neighborhoods or districts uh to include in this initial draft list.

That doesn't mean that there won't be one by the time we're done, but um the uh at this time we're focusing on individually eligible private properties, but like I said, we are working on code updates that will identify eligibility criteria, nomination process, and um uh approval process for districts as well.

Our current conducts include.

And we have one more question in the QA.

Get them in if you have more questions.

Uh, can you discuss the format and intent of the September 3rd meeting?

Will it be similar content to this or cover other topics, issues, audience, et cetera.

Uh yes.

So the September 3rd meeting will provide more information about where this project could potentially go in terms of changes to city policy, changes to codes, changes to required procedures.

Um, like I said, the uh new code language related to uh districts, um, nomination process, approval process for um for listing.

Um, and we're gonna provide more information about that direction at the September 3rd meeting, and then we're gonna hear more uh about your feedback uh about those ideas.

The goal here is that we would like to present that direction to the city council and environmental planning commission in October and November.

We'd like to share it with the community's feedback on those options.

What I will say is if you can't make that meeting, we would still love to hear your ideas.

And then you'll have a week or so after that meeting to view that presentation and send us in emails for uh with your your comments on any content in that presentation.

Oh, we got one more question in just under the line here.

I was about to close it all down.

You just made it.

Uh no, just kidding.

Uh why was the Red Rock building considered eligible for the historic register but not designated?

Was it because the owner did not want it designated or some other reason?

Um I don't know all the detailed history.

Um, Hannah or Christina, do you uh yeah, it is it is one of the buildings that we have written a draft national register nomination for it.

Um we're still kind of working on it.

So um we have not uh gone through a lot of the steps required to actually get it designated yet.

Um so currently we found it eligible, but perhaps it will be uh designated in the future.

Um there is an element of the national register nomination process where the city or sorry for the where the building owner um can express uh that they do not want it listed, in which case, um as you may know, um uh it could become kind of officially eligible uh for the national register, but not designated.

So um we are in in the process of of doing that for Red Rock Building and others.

Okay, you're welcome.

Uh all right, so maybe we'll we've got a couple of minutes here until 8 30.

Um, maybe we'll just uh sit for a couple of minutes and see if anybody has any final questions.

Um let's see.

Why don't Ella, why don't you put up that slide with your email address and the uh or whoever was controlling the presentation?

Uh can you put up that slide uh with the email address and the website.

Thank you to everyone who came out tonight.

Uh really, really appreciate your time, your ex your engagement on this issue, uh, your questions.

Uh I think the questions were really, really helpful and informative to figure out kind of where, you know, what are the concerns that are floating out there in the community and and maybe what we need to address a little bit better as we're moving forward in this project.

So really really helps to hear your questions and really really appreciate your time tonight coming out.

Of course, definitely want to thank Ella and Christina and Hannah for your time tonight and that great presentation and all your help on those questions.

Thanks.

And we'll be in person uh next week.

So we hope to see some folks there.

Exactly.

Uh we did have one question as people are leaving about how many people participated on this.

I think it was about 26, 27, something like that.

People were in the audience.

We'll have a final.

You very much for coming.

I think uh a little after 8 30.

I think we can log off.

Uh, but thank you again to everybody.

All right.

Thanks.

Have a good night.

Have a good night.