I'm gonna go get it all.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, how are you?

Oh, I heard a small thing.

Yeah, that's what I got.

I think it was a good one.

I thought we were putting your minutes.

Good morning, everyone.

I think we're gonna get started.

We do have on the agenda on technical opening in prayer, so I've asked our council president friends to open us in prayer and fledge and we do a send.

And then as we go on before this time of year and the season was in the same grade.

I want to say I appreciate our council members being in person this morning, and um Natalie is traveling and is online, and I thank you for that delivery.

We have a lot to cover this morning.

Um we will get started.

Um with law.

Uh Roberto?

Here you go up.

Here.

Here.

Reynolds?

Here.

Howard Phil?

Here.

Uh Dapper.

Kerr.

Here.

Morgan.

Here.

Thank you.

We do, as I said, we've got a ton on our agenda today, so that's Robbie.

Rodney, you're on.

Thank you so much.

All right, I have 16 minutes, so we'll look at you.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Um counsel.

Uh it's good being with you, especially in these settings that you can be a little bit more open and just have the dialogue rather than the formal setting of uh of a public hearing.

So um I've got several people who are gonna help me in this presentation.

Um Preston Roger, our attorney will be helping us uh through the legal parts of things, uh reporting and Daniel Backers also got uh several um others in the room to answer questions to be able to but um this is kind of a pressure for those who have been here for a while.

I I hope to um hope to just cover some um it just provide some clarification for those who have been here.

For those who are are new to the process, um this is also uh anyone who is a new I'm sorry, I I was hoping we would have uh council for the left here, I think.

Um so we will and um mayor electrical.

So we'll we'll board this onto them and make sure that they they see it.

And a lot of the material is kind of helpful for them.

So all right, um, with that was starting this.

Um this slide just shows our future land use map versus zoning map.

The comprehensive plan is required by state code uh local land use planning act, and that's what we refer to as LUMBA, and we try to update it every five years.

It covers existing conditions of the city and develops a vision for what the community wants to become 20 to 25 years from now.

Um that can be challenging if we're if we're limited on uh number of years of uh area, and so we gotta remember that this is us looking clear into the future, 20 to 25 years from now.

We're currently in an update to uh 2050, and so uh that's that's critical to know 25 essentially 25 years.

It covers the spectrum of city services and issues and establishes goals for achieving the state vision.

One of the most critical parts of the plan is the future land use map.

This is a map that establishes broader land use categories for development or redevelopment of the city area surrounding the city.

State code requires that any annexation or zone be aligned with the future land use map and the plan.

So that's narrative and the map you see on the screen.

The zoning map provides an entitlement for how the property to be used at uh at time of annexation or rezoning.

So once they get that zoning map, that's really where it occurs.

They they are they've gone through the process already.

They've established some entitlements that they know now what they can do with that property.

And um, and so that that's why it's so critical when we talk in public hearings about annexations and zonings.

That's your first chance, it's the best chance to determine what can be done on that property.

Because after that, they now have entitlements on the property.

Um there are some limitations to that, including the conditional use permit by the process, that kind of thing.

But really, this is your your best opportunity.

Um zones all under the category of the future land use map designation for the property.

If a zone is approved that is not consistent with the future land use map or plan, that action is called spot zoning.

So we hear that a lot in the community.

Hey, this is spot zoning.

It doesn't match exactly what I have here.

So it's something else is going in next to it.

That is not the definition of spot zoning, just because it's different, it doesn't mean it's spot zoning.

Spot zoning is truly a legal term where you are zoning something that's not consistent with the comprehensive plan.

The comprehensive plan is intended to provide that compatibility between different uses, densities, those things.

That's what the future land use map is for.

Yes.

That's correct.

That's why you're gonna have some zoning things that are going to be different from your land use map.

Um mayor, and don't you bills?

Um this is uh tight rope walk a little bit because the comprehensive plan is intended to be um guidance as you said, but the future land use map has typically been seen by courts and by uh cities and the state as something more concrete in the document.

So you do need to make your reasoning, justify um the how it complies with the comprehensive plan.

Um it is more strict than the rest of the plan.

So uh I would say that we we try to err on the side of kind of strict adherence to the comprehensive plan feature land use map.

And what we've done though, to make it more of a learning document so that it can be stretched.

We spread, we allow a stretch of the designation one parcel deep in either direction.

So that it's not concrete as you know, it's not huge or you cannot do anything besides that.

It allows a little bit of flexibility, flexibility.

And that frankly, that gets used quite a bit.

It's stretch in order to get a zone would be allowed on that designation.

Is that clear to everybody?

I think that's a really important point.

That answer your question.

Yeah.

For the land south of the drain.

And that's I'm just trying to see consistency in what we're doing.

Yeah, thank you for that.

I think this is a great opportunity to talk about that for just a second.

The uh future land use map.

Um typically we don't we we don't do land use map changes all that often.

The state code the maximum amount of time we have to restrict any new future land use changes in six months.

So that's what we do.

We follow that six-month time frame.

So it should be a little more static because you're thinking about the long-term future of the city, and you don't want that changing all the time.

If you've got a vision for the city, you don't want that changing all the time.

So every six months we have an opportunity for applicants to submit for changes to that future land use plan.

So that's what happened this last time is that they're requesting, hey, I know this is your long-term vision, but we really would like to have that vision changed.

And that is truly a legislative action by city council.

You can decide to change that or not to change that.

And there's really not a lot of reasoning you have to make.

It's essentially do you feel like this is the direction we want to take?

So while we have to consider their application and take it before the two bodies, planning and zoning commission and city council, you do not have to agree with that direction.

Um that is just a visioning document for the city.

So that's that's why that happened.

Um, if the city comes before you uh and requests a comprehensive plan change, it's the same thing.

You have flexibility to decide to do that or not to do that.

Um so that was the situation there.

Um I know it's a little bit difficult to distinguish that, what happened on Monday, from a typical annexation or zoning, but it is it's different because the comprehensive plan can truly just change according to your Q overview.

Okay, did I yeah.

Um the process for developing plans uh will be handled separately, but and we are happy to have one-on-one meetings with any of you.

We've had a couple of people we've already met with about the specifics of the plan development, and uh and specifically the comprehensive plan update.

Um hope to catch more of you in the coming uh weeks.

Several have already met with us.

Oh, Harry said that starting to do this.

Uh okay, so let's move on.

I just want to show you an example of how that occurs.

So on the left is the future land use map, on the right is the zoning map.

Uh over time, sometimes the comprehensive plan will change.

So in this case, the comprehensive plan was uh residential mixed use, and at that time we didn't restrict densities.

We didn't say, hey, you can't um go to a high density in the RMU zone uh designation on the comprehensive plan.

So that purple there on the left-hand side, allow for any kinds of densities.

So on the right, you have a zoning map that shows the RS6 and the RMH zones as allowed in that RMU designation.

So it's very very different, right?

RMU versus, or excuse me, RMH versus RSI are very different densities.

You also can see the that RMU is a mixed use designation on the call plan.

So it requires a certain amount of commercial.

So that's why you can see some of that BC zoning south of, I can't see that far from it here.

What's that road?

Yeah, Carter.

Thank you.

So south of Carcher on the left-hand side, in the zoning map, you can see the BC designation there, or zoning district.

And that's because that RMU designation allows for a mixed at least.

So commercial, residential, higher density as the last time.

That's changed since.

Now we only allow the unit densities in the RMP designation on the complex.

So just quickly, you can see that the designation median density residential translated to zoning of RS6 in that location.

Commercial to a BC zone matches exactly.

As I described, RMU to three different zones, R and H, RS6, and VC.

So just a kind of quick exercise.

This is not in the city, this is in the county.

But if they were to come into the city and want annexation, what would you say the designation they could get is?

Just a little exercise here.

What's the kinds of what is the land use type that you could put there?

Yeah, so commercial, could you do anything else?

Nope.

You could not do industrial either.

Because the RMH, even though it's across the street, it is a zone.

So a zone can't be stretched.

Only the designation on the future land use map can be stretched.

So you've got an RMU designation to the south.

You could stretch that up there and have medium density residential and local useful.

So could you have you could also stretch, just sort of clear, you can also stretch the medium density residential down to that property.

So that you're looking at that, that red right there, and you can stretch the purple up, or you can stretch the orange down.

So then the zone would follow that designation.

You can't stretch the zone.

Okay.

So I've talked about this a lot before, but I'm going to hit it again because I think this is difficult for staff.

This part is difficult.

As approved in the city code, council is given the staff some very limited authority to approve or deny based on criteria in the code.

It's not subjective as much as possible.

It's, hey, does it need these criteria, period?

Such as areas for fence height due to a property topography having issues or sloping away from the house.

But most of what SAP does is provide you information, encourage best practices, and help the public through the development process.

So the program and council, they make decisions or recommendations for applications and for adoption and planning documents.

Decision makers are legally responsible for following the federal city and city laws in the decisions.

So we try to find you through those laws, make sure that you're doing it in accordance with the law.

Staff are not advocates for a developer.

We try very hard to provide the same level of service for the developer and the residents opposing development.

When developers think staff of the diet here for working with them, the public needs to understand the people who are just as diligently for them.

If they have a question, if they have concerns, they will absolutely respond to them.

What we're doing is we're we're clearly stating the developer has complied with our comprehensive plan, our specific area, and our zoning code.

So that is that is all we can do there.

We can't say we are we oppose this because it's it's not the nicest project.

If it complies with the code, it complies with the component.

And it is what it is.

So sometimes the audience or the public feel like staff is on the other side.

We're not on the other side, we're just on the side of following the comprehensive plan and the code.

There's something wrong with those two.

Maybe we should look at that and change those.

But I I promise you, anyone comes into our office, um, there may be a few exceptions here, but almost almost exclusively, we are treating them with the most where we can and helping them walk through that process, trying to understand what is legally uh possible for them to do.

And how if somebody came to me and said, Well, what are the what are some of the concerns that I raised in public here?

I would tell them say, well, here's here's the facts of the case.

You can come and present that.

I don't get that.

Nobody calls us for that.

But they do it.

And I would treat them just the state as I do the developers.

Um I hear sometimes that doesn't plan carefully.

I'm a little confused about that.

Um these are some of the documents, not all the planning documents that we have, but some of them that we have gone through, go through very detailed processes, we reach out to the public, we try to get their involvement.

And so we also work with agencies like um the public works department and utility departments, or utility agencies, I know power.

I was on the trend that's the treasure valley um plan for transmission lines.

And we work with Link Lowell.

We we were on those planning teams trying to think about how our city will be impacted by what's happening around us and how we will impact them.

So it's it's critical that we understand what this means to the NAML public.

If they say we're not planning every resident, does it mean the plans don't align with the project deployments?

Do they have a different opinion?

If so, that's fine.

That's fine.

But it's not the plan, right?

It's just a different opinion, a different view of how things should work.

And we do that.

The infrastructure prior to growth occurring, okay.

I've heard that one a lot.

Can we can we put the infrastructure in before that?

And only response there is to these financial burden would fall on current residents instead of the developers.

If we were to say, let's let's do the development, let's put the infrastructure in on roads to where they water, then the burden falls on the taxpayers that are in our city right now.

And it doesn't fall on the developers as much.

So that's a concern.

I'm trying to weigh that when people say that to me, like, okay, I've got to be careful here.

And then also, if you put infrastructure in, then it encourages developers.

I mean, if you have steward to a certain location, it's very likely to develop.

And so do you really want us, or even want us to uh plan for an intervention?

Um I would argue that there's times where we do that, absolutely.

Um sewer projects that we're working on right now.

But that's going to encourage development in those areas.

So if we have a priority code, we know this specific area to develop first, then that's how we do it.

We go to those locations, we put the infrastructure in and go to a fall.

That's how I think sometimes you have said, I can't remember who said it, but I think it was you that said uh super is key.

Um sewer is um is the one that kind of drives everything because it's it's expensive to run those on sewer lines.

So if we want to put those sewer lines in, it's going to influence what happens to the features.

I mean this is what I struggle with because I hear a lot of us reactive.

I think uh what took place the last five, seven years uh in putting the industry areas on the north side speaks well to putting infrastructure PM and that area to then receive in the buildings or for I think it's uh really type uh and then through new cuttings and going and seeing tenants move into those spec buildings.

And uh we could go to the other go to a meeting at one of those to see how you know a merged company has occupied a great deal of that space.

And uh relocated the businesses from different parts of the states to NAPA found a uh I thought that would really be spoken well or to go on five, seven years.

And that was a strategic decision, right?

The city chose to do that.

They went in advance, added to the properties, um, we actually coordinate.

To say here we're going to do this.

And I need to see the proof of that.

Um the consequences are there too, but uh that was strategic.

If you like people, I saw several hands at Councilman Group.

That's the room the overhead lights rather than these today.

Yeah, I mean I also think the people have a hard time with uh they don't understand that doesn't take what properties my analytics have to apply and it's not systematic.

Yeah.

So I know because actually Preston up here.

Is that a yes it is?

Okay.

So just I know it's been discussed previously about forced annexation for the enclave properties.

While I might not be a supporter of that exactly, is there a way that we can create an ordinance or a statute to plan accordingly that once property sells in turns hands, it's then annexed into the city.

Um I I don't know of one unless they are coming to us or something.

Um I look to our attorney for that answer too.

So maybe you elaborate a little more on the scenario that we can.

When a homeowner sells their home at the sale, it's then converted to annexed into the city.

Rather than passing on enclave on enclave on enclave forever, because I think most of us could argue that they are using some NAMBA services in one form or fashion that we say current residents.

We understand that you were grandfathered in.

We need to let the community of realtors and developers know, don't promote it as if it's outside city limits any longer because at the sale, that'll be annexed into the city of Napa if it's within city limits.

I don't know if the legislature has already dictated this.

Um there's two ways you can have property annexed in one is a voluntary annexation, which you typically see and there is authority for jurisdictions like cities to uh compel annexation.

Um there's not a great appetite for that.

I think there's a lot of political reasons for that, but those are the two methods.

Um we wouldn't have the ability of an ordinance to say cast us blank and say, all right, everybody's on notice next time you sell your property, now it's coming in the city.

That's not authorized by state statute.

So you gotta stay within those lanes that have been given to us.

So with that with that being said, are they we would have to go to each individual property and say we're forcing annexation?

Ideally, yeah.

Um if we really want to look closely, there might be a way to do a kind of one application we're asking everybody to come you in in one spell suit.

Um but typically you'd see a one uh one at a time parcel by parcel.

So the follow-up would be that you have a property cell that's in the center of a county sub that we don't touch.

That's the perimeter, but I haven't seen a code unless it's a mass annexation to allow you to jump over to another another part of the challenge for NAMPA.

A lot of county subs were done in the 80s and uh early 90s, uh some of them even back probably in the 70s, and at the time they would have been considered two or three miles from city limits.

Cities now uh surrounded those subs.

We got a great deal on these sides around us to the point of it's almost a very awkwardness not to have them in a part of the city.

But in that case, then we're notifying it in my mind.

We'd be notified for a mass of people saying we're going to uh annex the enclaves that have been sitting here for 20 years.

And that's a very difficult or complicated because those properties utilize city service, they may not be using city water and food, but they're certainly using roads that city is maintaining or maintaining through joint powers agreement.

So that is a topic that I heard a case can't scream up or at least in months.

Um it might be a discussion that you put on the workshop in the future.

I know it's better quite a lot for tight on time.

So I think that I would recommend that that be a workshop under the administration and have adjustments.

We have to create a plan to um process we go to that.

Um I don't know if they want to have it too.

Okay.

So I I like how Preston describes as he says all the strikes are on the right here.

Okay, you're calling balls of price, meaning there's parameters, there's legal guidelines for not a guideline, there's legal code that says here's how you decide what to do in this situation.

Legislative broad discretion, um you have ability to create a murder.

So the conference touched on this city zoning adoption, zoning text amendment, and the annexation.

So that's your best time to say, hey, I want these conditions.

We can have development agreements to make sure that that is what you wanted to happen.

But once you move over to cross-head judicial, you uh I like how Breston described it's put on your roles, a judge judges roles, and you're saying, okay, that's again that's against the code, or that's following the code.

It's uh more stringent and there's legal concerns if we don't do that on that right side.

There's less legal concerns on the left side, uh, meaning that there's less likely of uh legal action against the city.

On the right side.

Yeah, Ronnie, if I could chime in uh from Monday night, uh there was questions about when you do a comprehensive plan amendment, what authority do you have to place conditions on that?

And we're running up now against master plan communities that are not turning in preliminary plats, they're just looking at a broader development, what type of authority does the council have.

I think that would be a good workshop uh discussion as well.

So we could we could fully understand that.

I think that's important.

Yeah, yeah, because it's one thing to say here's our master plan, but then once you've got the zoning and your annexed, and you come back in with the plat, next thing the plat doesn't necessarily meet the spirit of what took place six, twelve months prior.

Uh and it would be better to start seeing either we asked for the flats or we've got to place conditions on what the plat's gonna look like and it's not uh being legals we do them, but at that point the plat's just coming back to plan and zoning, and may not be familiar with what was the intent of the master community that was put before council and annexed, or we need to have development agreements initiated by city attached to that master plan community being approved, so it gives a guideline document to plan zoning on the plants coming up at the very least a rough concept plan, right?

Yes, it's touched within this.

That'd be my thoughts.

That's one excellent comment, and I appreciate commenting it.

My question would be are we doing that today when someone comes in because that plant just goes to planning and zoning, and you guys weren't at the city council meeting right here.

So staff, are you bringing all of that information forward to planning and zoning so they understand what you're saying?

Is that part of what you're going over in the planning and zone?

A definitive absolute okay.

Thank you.

Yes.

We um we look at what happened at annexation, was the conditions place on them, and we'll provide that and get the package.

They can have a little bit of leeway, but not much.

That way we have a pretty good idea of what they're gonna be initially as a pretty much, and that way we know where we're getting what the end of the way will look like.

So I think there's reasons when the plat changes for tweaks, uh, because uh may it be more efficient from three years and open this tree up a call of stack.

You know, there's tweaks when you kind of get through it from the concept of having done that.

And NAMPA's been uh gracious, I'd say over the years to say that acknowledge those tweets.

Sometimes it's beneficial uh for the infrastructure for NAP on the maintenance site.

Um so but the general guideline should be kind of laid out for we should have language and uh city still has the option and PNC has the option to comment on flats if they're not attached with the master plan community.

And that's in code, uh so a plat will go for a public here for the submission.

Right, just but it's it's the handoff because it's months in between and so forth.

So that's and that's staff's responsibility to make sure that all that was discussed at City Council at the time of annexation, master plan is community back to the same.

I think that if we have the preliminary plat, the public would have a better idea too, just like the one we had the other night.

They were like what we're thinking, but all we want is a zoning for now, and it's like they could change it however we want to have a road.

But if they have a fluid or it's gonna be attached to the development agreement, and they'd have to keep it pretty much for that at the end of the day, the public would have a lot of idea of what their initial, what their final plan is going to be and not that they're gonna come back and hear all that.

Well, they can come back to the four-torce of the acre.

And so from a marketplace point of view, sometimes what's transpiring is a party is getting the annexation and the zoning.

They're not in the business of platting, and so what they're trying to do is get some put together outside it and then run it to a bunch of other people and say, look what we've got, right?

Canada as part of the setup and what's taking place in the marketplace.

That's one reason why you're not seeing a plat at that time.

Not always, but that's that's a general guideline for transpiring in the marketplace.

Yeah, absolutely.

And one of the cautions I would say was for just requiring plats on everything is sometimes a master plan community can be so big that they're not gonna plaque the entire thing.

There might start with phase one and just do one little platform, preliminary plan.

But then they've got 15 years of plats that they're going to be doing over the next few years, and you just have to look back on that master plan.

But for a smaller master plan or a smaller, even if it was the minimum master plan is 40 acres.

So let's say it's a 40-acre master plan.

That might be one that you would suggest they come in with a plat.

Um the ones that are 400 acres, 500 acres, 600 acres, and sometimes it's really difficult, it's expensive for them to do the planning process, and they don't know all the details yet.

There's there's lots of little things that we do.

So we caution put it on everything, but some of the time it's a good idea.

You can also do concept plans and say, okay, this concept plan, let's lock this concept plan in place.

Residential here, with this much open space, commercial over here, whatever.

These roadways going through.

Um we encourage them to be asked to provide concept, and then we lock that in place with that.

Is it up at all possible for a developer when phases come to fruition, or they have basically an expedited process to come before the council at the time to be able to discuss what is the spirit of the project at that point?

I know we give them the overall designations and say this is what we'd like to see.

The development agreement say, hey, this is where we like guardrails, but the actual plotting process that could go before planning and zoning, but like we stated, will they really know what the spirit of the project was?

And will it council 12 years from now what the spirit of the project was?

I think the ultimate authority from the council side, though, is to have a poll somewhat needs to be driven other than the market, the market drives, but the council ultimately put the car rails on specific phases, would that be a possibility for those that have 12, 15 year build out?

I think you could do um if there was that you could require it as part of a condition in place on the annexation and the master plan.

I think you could require that it'll come back to city council for preliminary plan.

But is that yeah, it's the question I hear the intent, and it's just I haven't seen that before.

Um it's nothing to look into more closely before we want.

And it necessarily wouldn't have to be, oh, we want to, there would be an application process and be coming back to planning and zoning and saying we're planning for our next phase within the next two years when can we come before council for this specific plan for this specific phase?

And maybe that's excessive, I don't think it's necessary for a 40-acre project, but we just approved 450 some odd acres last Monday.

When that's full build out, I'm going to be long gone, Randy's going to be gone.

Who knows who else will be gone at that point?

Uh the ultimate spirit of the project might change with new council.

So I guess the direction I would say for that is there's probably lots of different directions you can take.

But one of the main directions that I would suggest you do is be precise in your language about conditions about placements.

And you approve those master plans.

If you're not comfortable with what they presented, hey, hey, we like to have it, we want it to be approved, but we need a little more detail in this way.

Can you come back with a plan that shows that?

And then and then you put that as part of your motion.

Hey, this plan needs to be followed.

This phasing plan needs to be followed.

Um if you want details, you have to put it in.

So that's my direction.

Something that we know prior to this, I wasn't developing well, representing applicants, presenting for all sorts of cities, counties across the state.

And um it's a tough balance, right?

Because you don't know if you're going to get an approval.

So how much investment you put into a project?

And a lot, something you know, like it or disagree with it, but these developers they put a lot of skin in the game.

They put their neck out there, and there's no guarantee.

So investing a lot into preliminary plan, all the costs that goes with that as very risky.

And you may see some hesitation of do we want to come to a place where you got to put all your eggs in that basket and they all get crushed.

And so it's a fine balance.

I think that's concept plan.

It's kind of a starting point a half step in that direction of give us a little more reality for it.

But make them behold into investing into lockdown climate plan.

And that'd be problematic as a practical point.

Oh, yeah, you just they're only making the developers.

You have to keep in mind that the city functions based on small business and business.

And a lot of our developers have shifted to more national developers, which is unfortunate because it's harder for the small local developers and builders to succeed in the market.

And that reads you can't play.

But it is very expensive.

It can be hundreds of thousands of dollars to get to that point that something comes before us.

And one of the things that I've watched is that they will build out and come forward with something that needs our plan.

And then we change our mind and we don't we say, no, can't do that, but they developed to our plan.

And so it puts the city and it puts them in a very, very awkward place because it is very expensive to get to that point where they're coming forward.

And then as this body, I think my recommendation is we've got to follow our plan.

If we didn't get it right on the plan, then we need to change our plan.

But sometimes I think I've seen quite a bit of that that we and then we try to you know do their job for them because maybe we don't quite like it, or we get into too much detail.

It's a very interesting and awkward place that we get into.

Um just a comment.

So one other quick thing on the marketplace side of the real estate side is when the master plan communities are approved and they're there, and they take five, ten, fifteen peers to develop out, physically get improved.

The difficulty for the consumer who goes into a community and buys a home that's on the market existing home in there five years, they buy that home, and one of their buying considerations is gee, look at the field behind us.

We're not gonna have any setting behind us.

And unknown to them, that ground is part of the master plan community, and there's gonna be RS4 homes sitting behind them one day.

And uh I'm not sure any solution, but it's a reality of why some people come in and give their three-minute comment, or they're frustrated because they think they bought a piece of ground that has a view of the mountains or view of something.

Uh and the reality is a piece of ground that's already been designed annexed under master plan that's still waiting to be out.

So it's really more complicated.

So I've spoken to several realtor groups over the last couple of years.

I would encourage us to realize you and whoever agreed to schedule appointments with our realtor groups.

Because my communication to the groups I've spoken to has been please do the homework and educate your buyers when they come in.

Because a lot of buyers don't know.

We've I've heard so many stories of people that came in and bought at UC.

Used to come trying to think it's somebody moved in from out of state, bought their little acreage there, think it's country, but they didn't know you see somebody like this is gonna be it's a major thoroughfare, but they didn't know it.

It's happening again and again.

But I think that the greatest way to help is to educate our realtors so that they're telling your people, and so that would be something we need to do.

About who's going to be the realtors association and made that presentation.

They were so uh accommodating and plenty of time.

We had some tough conversations there, and it was really helpful.

I think that they're they want to be helpful too.

It's just they cut a lot on their plate as well.

So I gave them a presentation.

I also handed out our uh citizen's document plan and directed for our website where we go over that exact topic.

Um I think we are still trying to reach out if you I know I felt like 10 15 years.

I know I've got like 10 years.

Okay, thank you.

So yeah, we are reaching out to them, and we will continue to do so.

But this is a chart.

I'm going to give everybody copies of this presentation so you have this.

This chart just shows which body is responsible for what.

So I'm not going to spend it in time on that.

This quickly, I think we've kind of covered it, but City Code covers a lot.

It's a lot.

And I just, if there's a concern with the types of projects that are getting approved, or even coming before you, then we probably need to address code rather than tell them to redesign their project.

As much as possible, the best way to influence what gets presented to you is to change the code and the comprehensive plan.

So that then they know here's what the city is after.

Here's what they be willing to consider.

We have online processes for development in our community, and essentially we we are the starting point.

Planning is the starting point.

Can you do what you're proposing to do on that product?

And then it goes through this process with engineering, with building, and then we review it again throughout that process.

Does it comply with the platform?

So these are all on our website.

Anyone can look at them and direct people there on the client.

We also hold pre-application meetings where anyone can ask for a meeting with us.

If they have a property and they're quite like, what do I do with this property?

They can come in and talk to us.

And if we need to, we can pull building or fire department or anybody else in that development process.

We can hold computer.

And you do.

So but it is required if they're after the entire.

So if they are requesting an annexation, a reason, uh conditional use permit, they're required to go through that pre-annexation process.

So that we can say, okay, here are all the things you need to do.

And let me tell you about some of the decisions that have been being made at planning and zoning in city council.

You can direct them to those and say, this is very similar to this one.

Please go watch this video.

So you see what they're concerned about, what they really want.

That's how we that's how we handle it.

Um we're warning them a lot in those meetings.

Say, hey, listen, this is some of the concerns we've heard.

You're gonna have to have some really good landscaping, or you're gonna have to have some some good amenities in this development.

We we warn them up front.

I know I'm I'm running short.

We have design review for industrial, commercial, and multifamily developments.

So we go through that design review process.

Okay.

This is a critical uh press here to just talk about it to partake communication and a couple other things I do too.

All right, in the interest of time, I will try to race through these, knowing that there will be a more in-depth training community in January for the new uh council fighting and small.

Looking forward to that as a little preview, uh what we're getting in January.

Uh I'm gonna hit on four areas, and there's probably a dozen more that we'll hit on in the spider screen.

Um, ex parte communication, ex parte is a flag frame for um something that is outside one on one.

And an example you might see in the legal realm is when there's a search warrant, uh, one side talks with the judge, the criminal defendant is not aware of it.

You go to another proceeding, you have all parties aware of that situation.

Ex parte is a one-on-one in a practical sense in a land use setting, like you're more accustomed to.

Um, think of it as any communication you have with an applicant or an opponent that's outside of the formal public hearing process.

And you know me, I've kind of I go back like a broken record of some coin phrases, the four corners of your meeting.

Anything that's outside of that is deemed the next parte conversation.

So if it happens, all right, this is more of those quasi-judicial ones when you put on those ropes, so to speak, um, it has to be disclosed at a public.

Oftentimes I think, oh, it's it's totally disallowed.

Not necessarily.

But if it does happen, a phone call, a conversation, um, he here this is right, it's a dungeon room.

Um you go to the stagecoach and it's a restaurant right by Boise, do you know what I'm talking about?

There is a corner there, and there will be a certain gentleman there with two arm candies on both sides, and that is where a lot of deals are made.

Um it's there's a lot of ex parte communication that happens in this valley.

That needs to be disclosed.

Um so if it happens, we need to hear about it.

Um you need to tell who you talked with and the general nature of that, all right?

Because all decisions need to be brought into the four corners of that meeting.

If you happen outside, you've got to dump them into the meeting.

All right, viewing the site, this one's always an interesting one.

Case law talks about this.

There's not these clear black and white rules.

Think it's under that same concept.

If you're making a decision, you need to make sure that those thoughts are all put into the record, four corners of your meeting.

So if you went and saw the site by yourself, investigated it, that needs to be brought into the four corners of the public record.

So what happens if you're in commuting and you have to do the track?

Right.

You're not gonna go to P and Z jail if you see it, right?

You can't go like this and track fire.

You don't need to do it like that.

What we're getting at is for deliberate intentional investigation that's above and beyond what's given to you in the application in the public testing.

So if there is a desire to view the property side, here's your best practice, and it gives us the best legal defense.

Um, give notice to all the parties.

Hey, I'd like to go visit it.

And you can let the public know about that.

There's a 1980 Supreme Court case where a county commissioner went and saw the site.

It was actually challenged.

People said, hey, you're getting on the extra information, you shouldn't, and you're basing your decision off it, and not what was discussed here.

And sure enough, in the Supreme Court, they overturned the decision, had remanded back to the open body.

And so you want to have everybody an opportunity to know what you're basing your decision on.

Conflict of interest, this one is fun as well.

Um there's two sources in Idaho code.

Uh there's an ethical and ethics and government section that's very broad and general.

Uh the lupa one is much more specific.

That's what I want to focus on here.

Just a quick key notes.

It's an economic interest.

And it isn't just actual, it has to, it is potentially a conflict of interest, but that needs to be disclosed.

Uh and disclosing it alone doesn't cure it.

Um, it does bar any participation, including the deliverations.

I had a story in down the county where there was a commissioner who owned hundreds of acres all around the site.

He believed that he had no conflict of interest in order to approve the subdivision appropriate right next to all this property.

Councilman feels a shaking set.

So we had to have that direct kind of awkward conversation with the county prosecutor and say, we know he owns this property in Under LUBA, there is a potential at a minimum of potential, if not actual conflict of interest here.

And begrudgingly, this commissioner kind of stormed out of the meeting, and that's a few choice words to me on the way out.

Uh, but that is what the law requires.

That's what has to happen.

So when in doubt, I'm here.

If you think there's a question, come call me.

I'm your legal counsel.

Let's talk about it.

That's I'll give you an opinion.

Yes, this would probably be deemed and rise to a potential or actual conflict of interest.

And it and the conflict of interest is graphed here.

There's a there's a great legal word, consanguinity, and it's meaning how you're related, it's in the second degree relations.

So here's to this uh visual.

If you are, if the conflict of interest, economic interest goes as far as to a grandparent, brother, sister, grandchild, or to a parent-in-law, daughter, or son-in-law.

That's the range that the law says, hey, that is too close to home, and we need to make sure that you are not part of that.

The law says, hey, you can try to say, oh, I can be impartial.

No, it's not allowed, it's not permitted.

Question over here, if there's kind of clarifications.

Um I've got a few that I said out because an uncle.

Is that third degree?

Right here, yeah, it falls outside of the second degree.

So I wouldn't have to.

Legally, no.

If you felt in the best interest, you would like to step out.

I'm not going to stop it.

I'll say we don't have to.

But yeah.

And again, this is particularly in my situation.

There's a lot of times I'm involved in projects, but I'm not involved in the preliminary stuff.

I I'm hired by an architect after they get the entitlements and everything.

So Randy brought a project for it, but he hasn't contracted with me on.

Yeah.

I mean, what's the decision?

If they randomly might give me the job later after it's approved, is that a potential conflict of interest?

Yeah.

It is just what the family relationship.

If you have an economic interest within a second degree relation, yeah.

And it also talks about if you use a discipline.

Yeah, there's also language about if you are an employee, if you are director or partner within an entity that would have a potential conflict of interest, that's where you want to call me.

And I think that's the takeaway from this slide.

When you think there's a question, call me.

That's the that's the point of it.

If someone is aware that they're going to get the job to design this, if it gets approved, to me, that's a complex of interest.

Yeah, if you're looking at if there's if that's already in writing, that hey, you are on concept.

It's not in writing.

If the discussions have taken place, that and then this is where it's it gets tricky.

And so I don't mean to call it, but what I'm thinking is we always want to be uh we want to be involved for it.

That's right, right?

And so even if like if there is a potential discussion that somebody can come back and say, oh, you they talk to you about it, and that you're aware that you may get that piece of business if it gets approved.

To me, that's when you would need to step back on because it would sometimes it's what is legal but case is ethical.

Yeah, there are two different standards.

And we want to be, we always want to be in the I'm not gonna be here, but I do want to say I want to be on the ethical side.

Yes, legally you can get away with it, but ethically, is it a good thing?

I mean, just to disclose it, maybe as the thing.

And that's why the language is actual, which would be the other contract that you are delighted, no matter what markets come through.

But potential, or it's likely to be, that's what the law also vision is even potential complex interest.

So you're gonna be able to look careful with that, especially in a circumstance uh commission.

An architect can come in, present a project and decide, hey, I'm gonna give this guy a shot.

And then he gets the job, and then people visually see that and say, wait a minute, was there a conversation before did you have well?

No, not necessarily because he didn't even know he had a chance to get a job, so you have to know he's never worried about conversation.

Yes, that you're like that's the case that for me on the actual side.

If we haven't had no conversation, then that's a whole different thing.

And it's a it's an error that I would always err on the side of caution here.

Don't try to like kind of thread it through and push it through.

I'm here, give me a call.

I'm always if there's a question, more work here.

I think this is my last one.

Um I chose this picture intentionally because we know jump on the gun, and this happens from time to time.

Um why why is it important?

This idea of deliberation.

You want to wait until all you know, all the cattle is in the current for every reason and before you lock the gate, and then you start talking about what's going inside of the gate.

So that's a legal principle at play.

Your decisions have to be based on what's only on the evidence in the four corners of the record.

And this protects against legal claims.

Um the decision was arbitrary, capricious, or an abuse of discretion.

Those terms are tossed out a lot.

I thought it'd be good, that's my last slide, um, to dive them what does the what do those mean?

So arbitrary, it's it's like a total disregard.

Right.

Here's the facts here, but just kind of disregard them.

Um it's kind of decision made at random, it's unreasoned, capricious, it's kind of impulsive.

It's kind of where you say, dive pad, screw it, we're just gonna go forth with it.

We can't make decisions on that impulse.

It needs to be deliberate reason and an abuse of discretion is where we exceed our authority as given to us.

So Rodney, those are before that one hit on this time.

Mayor, just put a question there.

Um, who makes a determination of what is uh arbitrary, capricious, or an abuse of discretion?

Who's the one that would be the enforcement or basically the one that's tracking that type of behavior?

Yeah, that's obviously going to be in a court, right?

A decision is about so is this as a individual involvement or as a council or a commission?

So this would be for a decision made by the council or reasonable arrived at the decision.

Was the method that got to be capricious?

Was it arbitrary or did they arrive there on an abuse of their discretion?

The individual to some degree right because the individual components build the decision, right?

That's the record.

The decision is made by the body itself.

But the reasoning to get there that's tossed in maybe from a couple council members.

And like when you see the signal approved the testimony, that was offered support and their deliberation about what that testimony was relevant.

That's individual comments.

It's not judicial.

It's more just an abuse of the temperature for freshman, it's more of us.

So your point who can raise the argument.

That could be committed, but yeah, it could be uh public, but all the decision makers are going to be the courts, and then you have cases that interpreted the fact patterns that we try to glean from this data.

This was this was similar to what we just did, so we can kind of predict what result would come of that.

And so that's why we're at all times trying to keep it keep it clean, keep it upboard and all our deliberation, and then the ultimate decision itself.

So sometimes it'll see a sweat bullet, and I'll give you a little insider baseball to do in variances.

Um where we're listening to it, it's like this is gonna be really hard to defend.

And uh we've seen that in other settings too.

So we do our best to try to guide you on those.

We'll say it's a little more in here to go.

So I know Rodney, you can step up, but we are totally out of time.

I will say that the January workshop, pressing the January workshop is legal, correct?

Yeah, it'll be more far more depth.

And I think we may have the entire time.

Yeah, and if if planning and zoning wants to attend or listen literally, you're walking that will be focused on council, but I'm sure there are things that you might glean from that meeting, and so the J Word that we should get is all about the legal around these seats for us.

So that's the kind of thank you.

That was really excellent, and an excellent discussion.

So thank you for being here.

Um we are pretty much done.

I had a couple of slides just highlighting uh in this, but I think we've talked about it.

So we still review those permits that come afterwards.

We also had several uh slides on engineering.

Uh, I'm gonna hand those, those are being passed around right now.

You can look at those slides, but just know that we we do have standards for traffic impact studies.

We hear that a lot in public hearings.

Um those are kind of outlined in in these slides when those would be required, uh, what we would look at, uh, who's responsible for um and then uh just just so you know the engineering review, all of the applications that you see as well for compliance with their standards, and that that is it.

Thank you so much for uh great discussion.

Thank you.

So, real quickly, we will email this to everyone so that you guys all have it.

The entire package we can email, and it will be required meetings.

So Rick Holderball's at his new mayor training this week.

That's why he's not here.

I'm not sure my debt's talk isn't here, but uh I'm gonna reach out to him and say this is and they know, but this is required.

This is critically important information.

It will be required for incoming people, and Rick just put out here today.

I want to say real quickly, thank you to Planck.

As a volunteer physician, the work that you do is so critical to the city.

Thank you.

Really appreciate your work.

You I I take I think that we have a great team.

And I just so appreciate the work that you guys do.

And you've shown up for so many early morning meetings, and you really desire that we make good decisions on behalf of our company.

I just want to say thank you.

You will really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Okay, so we need to know if you want to say that you guys had it.

We need to find out.

I point you out because your church, nice way of asking.

No, I'm sorry, your term is coming to it.

Actually, I didn't, I thought I was Christy.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

I we just sometimes I think I do something.

So I like it all the time.

But you know what?

We value your work.

We value all of your work.

Thank you so much for the work that you guys did.

You're welcome to stay for this next section or not.

It's up to you.

Um you're gonna move older.

And uh his next, I have a question.

We had a discussion.

Um this is this is national clinical on the agenda, and it was to authorize the American signal resolution about the bylaws of the government says not long.

We had a long discussion at the meeting the other night.

Are we are we ready to take action on the site?

What I said in the packet was based off the conversation that we had in discussion, we made those tweaks.

Um I didn't get any of the questions since Monday.

And so if there's any questions now, you want to bring up this time.

I will say we don't have much time.

So I make a motion that they approve.

Sorry.

It's been moved and seconded that we approve the sending the resolution and adopting the bylaws.

Any discussion?

I believe this should be continued to January 5th.

I think we haven't gotten all uh stakeholders uh this will effect this only affects uh a majority of us, but I think Debbie Scott deserves some time and speak about it as well as Rick Hoggle on the record rather than ex parte communication still that would be light.

I would think we're doing that decision.

With that, we've called the end, and then we can move our subhole.

Or not road, but she's on my bills.

Yes.

Yes.

No.

Mayor, I'm moving to this January 5th.

Rodriguez?

Yes.

Angula, sorry, Bills.

Yes.

Reynolds?

Yes.

Howard Phil?

Yes.

Griffin?

Yes.

Motion carrying.

Okay.

So we'll discuss it.

Okay, we're gonna move on to the only agenda, and this is a discussion.

And uh guys, we are gonna run over on time.

So a little bit.

Go ahead.

Excuse me, Mayor's clarification then.

So we're talking about discussion on the fifth.

But that's after the change.

Is that correct?

I just want to make sure we're gonna do that.

That way you can vote on that night.

You'll also be voting that night.

Um be the same.

And that will be aware of the packet once again.

So I appreciate it.

Okay.

So Tom, we're gonna move to one three.

This is uh I I'll just start real quick.

I don't have Tom Plause.

Because I think we as a body need to have this discussion about where we're going with it.

And he needs to know under the studio not for me.

So I asked him if he could come today and give us an update on where we all know this.

Okay, thank you.

I'm gonna go pretty fast on this and got multiple speakers and talk about me as well.

So I promise we can have agreements.

Um thank you for that intro.

So since the copy of waste energy, which is uh originally the prowless machine doing demonstration, we learned a lot of different other power generation and mineral projects that I think are super important besides that one I want to talk about today.

And the reason that this is important as a city um we need to be controlled for our own water and our own power, she is have strong economic development.

So we've got our water figured out with our reuse, and we really need to figure out and understand power.

I know does not have enough power.

We actually import power.

We have to bring it in from other state.

So if we can figure out what we need to bring power with our own city, that's super good for our economy, and then we've got uh developers that are coming in and have hygiene jobs for consumer power.

We can uh use some of these technologies that we're gonna talk about to require them to power their own facility.

That's a good thing for us.

If we're smart about power and we know what we're asking for, it's a good thing.

So I'm gonna have Rob and people here in a minute to talk to some about which he's seen on that field.

So that's kind of why I'm here.

There's there's multiple reasons, but a lot of it is just understand power.

Uh it's good for the economy.

We want to continue to do some of our research and development on these initiatives.

I'm gonna show you so we can figure out how to do our own design bills, our own RPs, they'll save you some money, so we're not higher consultants to figure this out for us.

So real quick.

Are you taking consideration in to their ability to overreach or involve involve themselves?

Um so we yes, we we would just, if we're gonna generate our own power, we would um physical power and there's an agreement that would become with them, and we don't have to, and then they would go to the public utility commission on our behalf.

Same thing with air amount gas.

If we were gonna sell gas to the gas company, they would go to the commission on our behalf, and we'd be there as our owners.

The reason I'm bringing it up is because it was a controversy a few weeks ago about uh the PUC and Idle Power seeking a rate change for those who put in solar, and they were downgrading the payback on the solar.

So you have people who invested in solar, and then a few years later or a few months later, however their timing was, uh, they find out they're not gonna get the payback they thought they were gonna get.

And yeah, the sales community was communicating.

So I'm trying to think future forward.

Yes, we we think certain things are gonna be great, but there's other players who idle power and PUC who have the ability to change.

So my role in this is to make sure that we're communicating this is not solar or two things that have a different ring home.

This is using biocapacity.

Um biosolids, there's there's lots of other options with natural gas, you can generate power, but so this is completely good.

So I will work super hard to make sure that I separate this from my institution.

Uh I don't code is getting adjusted through the legislature to allow what we're wanting to do.

We don't find ourselves beheld to the politics or the wind supply.

Yes.

So we got some friends here that are interviewed, they're gonna help me out with some of that too.

So thank you.

Yes, and the intention is this just for the city department, or are we trying to create a public utility that we will then administer to our residents?

I just think we'll clear up we're not looking to do a public utility.

Other cities that are gonna have I don't all set their own power company, but that's not what we're looking at.

Thank you.

Okay, so here we go.

Um so the uh this is the we're gonna pass this around and look at this.

This is if you want to do a deep dive into the energy, everything energy can uh pull that up on the right and read it so uh Office of uh Idaho Energy and Minerals, the governor's office is put together a conference uh just a couple weeks ago.

And um there's three Western governors, Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming the sign of proclamation to try to bring in more power into Idaho.

And so we we we said as a city, we can build with that you know beyond the coattails of that initiative and try to find new ways to bring power.

So I get a quote from Governor Cox there in Utah, and then here's one of them for our governor in uh Idaho.

So um the thing that came out of the conference is that we expect to see uh 40 years of energy demand growth in the next five years.

So it's just a tremendous amount of uh power being consumed and company, and so that's like I said, we need to understand it and be ready for this.

Um so here's the stats, like you said, 43 percent of power, a lot of this is hydropower, is generated in our own state.

Um is fine power for us.

Uh industrial customers generating their own power, so that's actually happens here at right here in our backyard at Malcolm Sure, they've got uh two power plants that are putting in a third power plant to generate some of their stuff.

They use combined power and biogas already.

A lot of the stuff I'm talking about is not new technology, it's just things that we should really understand who are on top of this stuff.

And then 30 uh percent of the power is imported into the state and purchase.

Um Idaho Office of Energy and Mineral Resources a good partner for us to help us do this, so we're not alone in this journey.

They're they're here to help us and guide us and give us information, technical advice.

So like I said, water and energy key to economic success.

We have similar goals.

We want to be more resilient, less reliant on energy from the companies and generate our own, understand power generation.

So here's some of the funding partners.

And they've got some research money that they're talking to us about.

Along with the EPA, there's grants from the Department of Defense, the Department of Energy, and then IDO Transportation Department is interested in the mineral portion of this discussion and help funding some of that research in concrete.

So as far as we go, you know, we're the we can help find funding, we can implement it, and we can we're gonna go through and look at all the ROI on all these projects.

So this should have said this beginning.

And we'll come back once we determine we research all these proposals out, we'll come back to council with an actual ask.

And all these energy projects can get 100% financing.

We've found several different lenders that can lend these funds to us.

We're not asking for any rate increases, we're not asking for anything in the budget.

We're just asking for us to continue this research.

Okay, Robin, you want to come up, Robert 50?

Um, so we there's so much power need, I'll be quick.

Um, in the projects that we're seeing coming into the city, uh, our power needs are only increasing.

Um, and so even if you take out, you know, we don't try to pack data centers.

So usually we take those out manufacturing just so much more power.

Um, and so when we're talking about food, um, and then also advanced manufacturing, the power needs are increasing, and and we're seeing a lot of that happen.

And we work with our uh partner I know power a lot in the process, um, working on putting in new substations and working with the developers to help those in.

Um, but they that has to be like a hit as these projects come in and how that's going to help them the company the rail up to be able to do the manufacturing that we need, um, and then they're looking at doing, especially in Northern Button.

So that conversation happens constantly.

Uh happened yesterday, uh, right after the chamber in London, um, to talk about what power means.

We have two big projects that are looking at coming here, they're in pre-manufacturing, we're in the top two sites competing against people.

And um, so and then our power constraints, um, it's just we're in the nation.

This is a problem at every single economic development.

When I get stuck with sex, I was just in Indianapolis in the end of October.

I met Oventional Site Selector, and his first question to me was what's power like funding power.

Um, and so those are the topics of conversation for companies that are looking to expand.

Um, and then each state is handling that differently.

Um Idaho Power has been amazing to work with, but we have constraints with how the technician, uh, how commission looks at developing power, we can't do power development like other states.

Um, and so that puts us at a disadvantage, but some of our advantages are uh we do bring in power from other states, but some of our advantages are that our rates are lower.

Um, and so we are looking at ways to diversify how we're getting our power into uh this area and what we're doing with solar and and on many other many other power generation methods.

So at a really 50,000 foot level, I guess the highlight bar is we are only seeing more and more and more really power, um, and that we continue and so being creative and how we can do it at the city level is extremely probably this is a lot more competitive than companies trying to come to data.

So quick question, clarification.

Yep.

Uh do we do others in the state of Idaho?

Does our Idaho code allow for others to generate power, or is it subject to uh IO power and maybe whoever's up on the north side?

Yeah, we're we're subject to Idaho.

So consequently, when I do power takes, you know, they took their coal-fired plants offline.

Um that really changed the landscape or as their ability to produce.

Yeah.

And then that comes in Idaho Code, that constrains us from doing uh so the projects you're talking about, are those considered co-generation.

So yeah, and Idle Power has to approve those.

Um well, as long as we're putting back on the grid.

We can serve ourselves or a company they if they wanted like amalgamated sugar, they can find the meter, do their own power with some of these technologies I'm gonna talk about.

But I have power is looking for new power, they put out an RFP uh basically every other year to developers that come in and bring more power.

As a city, we can put in on that if we want to.

Yeah, they want to control what transpires.

Um they're getting I've talked to them extensively about this.

They are a supportive of this project and they're very interested in it because it's consistent can be consistent power instead of this solar and wind, which has these peaks and valleys, and those are hard to deal with for them.

So they haven't been resistant on this at all.

That's a true generation.

Yeah, yeah.

But aren't they subscribing to clean generation?

And therefore, it's so they're already doing it now.

Uh council bills.

So a lot of the stuff that they're building for new power is actually uh national tax generators of power.

Okay, yeah.

So that's clean energy right there.

So that already put it.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Yeah.

And we're gonna cover the cities that we have sitting on the power level.

Yes, okay.

So I'm gonna bring up Christine real quick.

And Christy is one of them, and I really appreciate her.

Well, thank you.

Yeah, for being a business as a steam group this morning.

Um, I come by way of college question Idaho to be on development, and I just transitioned into this position with the Idaho Advanced Energy Consortium.

And we're we're a membership organization that supports Idaho communities, Idaho suppliers around anything clean energy.

And to your questions, clean energy can be defined as wind, solar, hydropower, paralysis.

I mean, it really runs in the gamut.

And it really is for your city to decide what you want to do and what kind of energy independence that you think that you can dig into given you know what's palatable for your community, your land, and only as good sometimes as your public works directors that are bringing these kinds of projects to you.

I will tell you that you're one of the more innovative cities I've seen related to the projects that Tom's been bringing in.

Specifically, our role and connection back to mail that is we help Tom get connected to the Idaho National Lab.

They actually have expertise in bioalysis.

They have two experts on site that actually help manufacture and build an RD those machines.

So we're here when your city decides to lean in, you know, approve the projects that you know Tom and Cityworks are looking at.

Do we have another expert in the state nation that you can benchmark against or talk to?

So you're not always leaning in or relying on the vendors because that would be a scary proposition sometimes also they get a Peter tomorrow.

And so I'm just here to let you know that I have advanced energy consortium is here to support you.

And if there are, you know, there are things happening in the state house legislative that are maybe better for you or counterintuitive to what you're trying to get done as a city.

Our organization is also here to help, we're very connected with Office of Everyone Energy, um, you know, Governor Little and all the state energy focus.

I'm also always looking for funding, and so these meetings help so I can also look across the national landscape and statewide if there's something to help a city like yours.

I will tell you right now, my number one phone call is small modular nuclear reactors from cities in Idaho and saying what do we need to do if we if our city or our municipality were interested in an SMR, what is that process?

And we actually have some feasibility study, a feasibility study we just completed with the show ban tribe on what it would look like to put an SMR on showband um on land.

And then what we're gonna do is we're gonna parse that out and we're gonna try to find some funding for cities like yourselves.

If that is an area of interest that you want to lean into, we can start funding some of those conversations and being ready now.

So that's my plug for everything Tom's doing, and also all the great things you're doing here in the city.

I'm gonna leave you with one of my animal reports, and then also um a handout about the nuclear corridor that exists between Idaho and Wyoming and my projects that we're trying to get funded to the as right now.

And journey that you might be back in a smaller group and have these conversations, Tom knows how you meet.

So thank you.

Thank you, Christine.

So I'm gonna we're gonna move into the various projects.

We've got six projects to cover, and I've only got about 10 minutes, so I'm gonna go super fast.

Um like I said, not asking for any funding, get financing for these, we're just gonna do some research and development.

Um the team which is back here um from the water renewable, we're we're working ourselves into doing a lot of more design bills for like bus consulting, we're gonna go through our own research and development, figure out what equipment we want, we'll start the air permit, put out RFPs, and then so we're giving ourselves you know, uh a lot of money versus saying oh what do we do, right?

So we really get our controls, we'll still use them some, but we're trying to shift into a different mode of doing things, which is gonna require some a little bit of a travel budget for that team back there to go look at equipment that's actually in place so we can spec it out, put it in RP and do an airport.

So um again, we're gonna use our existing go through that.

Uh here's the six areas we want to cover, so carbon markets.

So I'm gonna pass around an example carbon, those that have seen that.

Um this is the mineral part of this discussion.

This I I'm gonna recommend that we pursue this even if you don't want to do any energy projects because this is super important for construction materials.

And that's the important best because we need to figure out innovative ways to do things that save us when you express our dollars far farther.

Um and then we would go cast some backup power ideas, the biosolids dryer is something that we want to do regardless because we're calling wet biosolids.

Uh we came up with an idea of basically a peaking plan is what I'm calling it.

Power with our gas that we need today.

And then we can for looking into uh code generation, adding new waste into our digester, we can basically double our gas production.

So they're in fact helping with that.

So uh this is the the design and food waste and digesters and I do uh midnight if you get to be a larger city, like over there in King County, for example, and you there's some big cities in Utah that are doing this now.

If you get bigger than some of these things, make sense financially sense for you to do it.

And then the last one we've already heard quite a bit about the waste energy paralysis, so I'll kind of give you an update on that.

Um I appreciate all the support on uh um data things that we've done, watering coal plant is an example of us delivering on what we said we were gonna do, and Brian also that project where we saved a lot about 600,000 in the past five years on developing our own line for room.

So um one of the things that we've heard from council in the past and our board of crazy is we can try to figure out how to recycle everything at the water religious plants.

We've got the water solved, we've got some solutions we're gonna show you on biogas, and we've got some solutions on the biostology.

Okay, carbon, like I said, this this one is a separate thing.

Uh recommending PC would just so the carbon that is functional around the carbon.

This is the one um it's got the most promise for construction materials, it's about 95% carbon, so it's pretty pure carbon.

Carbon is a very hard material, so it does some and it's very absorptive as well.

So it's that does some things some amazing things when you get it into certain construction materials.

Um I said wanted to try to come up with some ways to uh prolong the pavement life, and uh we've got lots of payments using gambo, so this is the huge market to look at for us.

Um so we've done some research and found a couple different publications from outside this country where you're putting less than one percent of that carbon I just passed around into the concrete mixes, and you can gain 20% uh compressive strength.

So just imagine the 16 pavement in half.

That's really right.

For an owner, that's a big deal for us.

But if we can figure out how to do this, we can do the right industry.

That's good.

I'd be good for us, and then the other idea I have is we've got a lot of older uh payments that we see put it in a seal code in there, it's just a key chunk, right?

To get over that road, if we can come in and do a lot of some of that, and put like a two-inch uh concrete overlay of white hopping with this concrete with this carbon in it.

That's road last cover.

We did one of these on US money on uh the IT over there on uh building road, we put a white copy in there, and it lasted for all the rest of the payment swimming went back.

That thing was there about 15 years ago.

This definitely would work.

Still subject to what the condition of the base is underneath, or is it kind of helping the bridge?

The bridge bed so it's a thin concrete order, but normally just highlight through it unless you do like four wood so we spaces the keeps that racking kind of reflecting up.

Um this kind stuff.

Okay, here we go.

So we got the university that are interested in that one that's also this so um it was specifically interested in the reason that would be if they didn't have them is because they have small scale paralysis units where they can take our biosolids and our wood mixers and run it through their paralysis and they can pass it over to the uh concrete map, and then they should run the mix of give us the formula.

Um about 140,000 over a two-year period.

Um IT is super interested in this as well.

They've got state mining and research money, and I'd ask for at least 50% of that funding from them.

And then I've also uh approached a few of the board members from the association by the I don't public work professionals and chip and some fun, so it's not just us.

Some of these things we're talking about not just for the ammo with their ideal solutions.

Correct.

Yes.

So I haven't reached out yet, but I'd like to assuming we're still gonna go their ISU is done some research and development on what they call sweet cream, which is they took the amount of sugar waste, uh calcium carbonate, put it in the concrete, and then it made some high early strength uh concrete equipment bridge deck.

So they were looking for more recyclable materials.

I would I'd like to go talk to them to a few things that we can do with now.

So we put a lot of temperature there.

Uh I passed out a carbon list with a whole almost 30 different solutions.

Um look at the first ones, uh, the most promising one first that helped camp with that construction materials from concrete asphalt.

Everyday daily red stuff, there's a lot of other things.

When we get to the WCF, we're going to have all the case.

We need to be looking at some of them just that soil stabilization was one, water filtration.

There's lots of options.

Okay.

Um initiatives that we want to bring for not this particular next is backup power.

So one of the things that we we did a tabletop exercise here a while back and our puddle boards and our entire team realized they're way too uh dependent on people.

So we only have 48 hours of the power was out, and through it's gonna be back up.

So um we wanted to start doing this when we have the planning on where the right spots started bringing in alternative types of generation so that there was natural gas iterator that has only council bills.

There's also uh fuel cells, batteries, there's all kinds of different new stuff coming out.

We want to do a little research to figure out which ones make the most sense to come back ask for some of the funding next fiscal year to do a master plan on our backup generation.

I think we're a little bit vulnerable on the way we're at right now.

Um drier, so the handing back there is and team of NPs.

I said this is the kind of numbers here.

Uh use 25 per ton to for 50B and two recreages, it's almost 40.

So if we can get them drier, that's less we have to spend to do the tipping piece.

We want to do a look at some equipment, like I said, do an RP, put a return on the West, and come back with you on that particular project, which is pictures.

Um I just want to try to drag home is be your home design builder, you need to start on the air permit first.

You have to go look at equipment, you have to know the different major models are out there, and then we'll use the air permanent because that's and then that's the 12 month process they did an air permit.

So you don't want to be engaging and buying things and then waiting for an air permit, and then you're just spending money and not getting any production out of anything.

So you're gonna hear that from us in the future on air permits.

Um power.

So um our desers between biogas and about uh 110 cubic foot limited, and it's got 50 percent methane in it.

So it's you can actually when you hit that 50 percent methane, that's when you can put it into an engine and create power out there.

So um there's technologies out there now where you can we're looking at the standards and helping me with this one.

Uh we can with that volume, we can get about a megawatt of power.

So we can zoom at a peak at 2.5 megawatt power plant.

So like I said, it kind of helps with that.

More consistent power will save us about 300 grams, probably we don't know yet, we're gonna need to run the return on the design, but we're running calculations.

Um another benefit of this one that we really like is we came to you, we have four old boilers for our heat our digesters.

We came and asked to replace two of them.

The other two we were thinking we did not have to replace some of that budget for the trying to keep the power because that heat from this process can go back into that boiler room and we can reuse it.

Um gas production if we brought in some two ways and mixed it in one's other digester.

Uh we've got five digesters now, um three in use, one's being retrofitted.

So we do have a little capacity to try to do something like this.

We need that one of the important things for the team back there is that we need to get um icons with some of this active operations so they understand if it's something that we want to do operationally, because I didn't have all these radio these on all the way long, but those people back there have to run this stuff.

So I need to make sure that they're on board and I'm feeling comfortable with it.

Um so here's we're at Agnown, so we've got plenty of products that we can use right here in the backyard.

Um we already talked quite a bit about this.

Um process increase um city gas biochar week heat um biosols and would go in, and then um we we have an RP that's ready to go, but we actually restructured it.

We're working on pressing for it to actually have a lead, but like a go we provide the site, we just provide the permit.

We pay for operation because the demo that the vendor has to build it, bring it here at their costs.

We don't buy it.

If we want to buy it, we can, but we don't have any so that's actually uh this is uh not new.

I've actually found five now six yesterday vendors that are building these in the USA.

And so it's not that's it's getting more and more common.

We're just kind of at the very beginning phase of it.

So here's some of the uh waste energy projects power resiliency, the POS and the biosolves can get destroyed because of the high heat at 1800 degrees Fahrenheit.

That's where the EK and PQ are interested in this project.

Um already came to you asking for funding with air permanence or continue to work on the air permit.

Like I said earlier, that's important.

Um fire companies now stick in another one yesterday, integrated energy, fire force techniques or tar technologies.

These are um a lot of them are in the Tennessee Texas area because they're trying to get rid of wood waste, and so they're companies that we run.

Um some of the things that we need to do on the before we um put the RP on the waste energy out is confirmed that there's a good uh revenue source on the early materials sales over university thing.

Um, and then uh we like you were asking about I know power, but we're gonna sell power back to them.

We need to do the RP.

So that's another step.

We need to make sure there's supposed to be an RP coming out in the January February that's coming up here.

Um rate increases 100% lending down the interest rate at 5.5% from the lender.

Okay.

I'm heather just so this is why I have a huge spreadsheet, it's for 20 years.

This is just a summary, so it wouldn't get on here.

So this is showing that between 2026 and 46, we will run into our million.

It's gonna cost 56 billion, but in three years it will be uh we'll start seeing some revenue sources coming in.

And then this is saying that's gonna cost everybody or what we want to do, and then to pay off everything.

So as my call mentioned earlier, we're gonna need to hang out alone.

So we don't have to increase rates.

Our main goal is to have a bring innovative ways to get more funding.

Yeah, so um increasing rates or taxes.

So if we get a loan, um this point is also a search grants out there so we can help fix that.

So always not 20 years, but more like 68 paying all.

Okay.

I just talked to that you and not engineered.

Okay.

So and then drawing up it is just a short idea.

So you're fine.

Yeah, but I'm trying to leave some time for QA, so I'm almost done for you to the end.

Um so like I said, we may have made a lot of information very impressive list of partners and are reading for us on help either financially or just technical support on the gas side and power side things.

So it's interested in that C all that participation.

And then also I want to invite uh so this is Mayor, Council President, me and Clark and Clay, Chief Staff, went to Idle National Lab.

Um Chrissy mentioned that they're not in just a new key or they're any everything energy, including biomass energy energy, so cybersecurity, uh batteries, all kinds of stuff.

So I invite the council come back.

You know, if you just let me know we can arrange another trip, maybe in the spring.

If you're interested, reach out to me and let me know I'll teach you a little there.

It's very worthwhile to understand how powerful a resource you have in your very backyard.

Okay, um, Heather, so actually so um Heather put together the slides some of the different things that within our budget.

We're gonna some we're gonna proposing the take some transportation money for the mineral research um version of this project, and then the rest of it was already in budget that we put in to do our demonstration projects, we just want to shift the use of those funds to do some work on our research and development.

So you see there's some some travel in there, um, and then energy attorney.

I don't know, I don't think you're gonna bring that one anymore.

I think they're gonna negotiate that enough with title power, I'm not sure we're gonna need it, but there's a few steps in here, like air permits and a further form that we need to fill out.

So I wanted to use the funding that we have a budget for these items.

Um then I don't know, you want to hear from John on a program.

I know that's what's been a question of what we've got in the budget for Edwards Purdue.

So we're looking up on the question of your transferring some funds or something.

I'd rather see those funds stayed unless we have a defined budget amendment.

I'm not sure if your slide was indicating this is what we're doing with them, other taking some fund from area.

Well, we can come back and put it in the council item.

It'll need to come back today.

This is discussion.

I just want to make sure there's no discussion and information about that.

We're we're saying, yeah, you can take those funds and break XYZ.

Yep.

Okay.

Good question.

That is correct.

This needs to be the next council.

And I'll just pause real quickly and say the reason Tom's before us from an operational standpoint when you're talking about spending Tom's time and report and go down to the art.

It's important, and most of these council members are here for this next season.

But I feel like we need to have a discussion with council as to where we're going to move forward on waste to energy overall, or which pieces and parts of it.

This is beginning, and again, I'm going to say this is mandatory for Rick and Debbie Scott to listen.

This has been fast, but this is the beginning of saying uh it probably it'll give you enough information to ask questions.

This is gonna come back.

This is not an action item, there are no decisions today.

Right, okay.

No, I and that's a really good and that's important, right?

It's about what the intent where we're gonna adjust and exactly.

It'll come back before you under the new administration to make some decisions, but the reason it didn't wait is that the next council workshop that he can even get in on this February tomorrow, right?

And so while most of our council members are going to be here, we only have one council member change.

So I feel like that's why we're here today, because the work of the city needs to continue to report just because we have one council member coming in, with all due respect, you can't stop the operations of the city and the work is happening because I've already taught and one knows this at pause top from really moving forward because I felt like this is a discussion that we need to have with the council because it's a funding discussion, and so I think we need direction from council.

So we're talking second meeting of January.

Yeah, we have a ready by that.

Can we can we maybe can go with this stuff?

Absolutely.

Okay, because I'd obviously have the uh I remember my hearing right now, council uh doctor when on one so I help and when you sit with with Heather, she explained it a lot better.

Yeah, I didn't want to I think you feel that you love doing that.

Well the financial part of it.

Mayor has I didn't want to identify that we do have money in the budget for 26 from transportation.

We have transportation planning that we already have in there.

That was this.

And the water had budget for this all right.

So is it clearly identified for this project?

It's or is it a general plan?

And it's always general, so we can use a work for any planning that we have in transfer.

The full amount of 5.5 million, or how much is that?

200,000.

200,000.

But for 26 through 28, are we just how are we phasing out those initial funds for the large scale projects that you're proposing?

So what we're asking for now right now is 350,000.

And what would be lacking from transportation?

If we were to take those 200,000, what is it being taken from?

It's transportation planning.

So it's like Heather says it's just generic, it's not project specific, it's just planning transportation project or some sort of uh research on how you build things and solve this.

So it's the same use.

That'll be the detail on the proof.

Yeah, like a meeting.

Okay, and that's why we're here today.

So this is something we're discussing neutrally that we'll continue on.

Well, we're taking we have general allocation buckets, but 200,000 is a lot of them.

Like that's not just a little bit.

And I think that does need to come to council for discussion when we're taking a big piece of something away from transportation.

I think council needs to have that discussion.

So today the goal was plant seeds, give you enough information that you're gonna start asking questions, and then when they come back, you can have discussions before January 20th, or you may need to push it to the first meeting of February to get enough time to have discussions to really answer those questions because that may be where Crystal needs to answer the question.

What are we gonna not do?

That's what council needs to know.

Because what I feel like personally is that council needs to be involved in this discussion about how we move forward with waste to energy, however, we do it with the energy production with the city.

This is the time to come back to city council and ask you what your desire is as we continue to move forward because it's a time investment, right?

It's a time investment, and it is an initial financial investment.

We have been talking about the paralysis machine and that purchase, and that's a big investment.

And so I think that it's it's very important that I've had Tom starting to pause a little bit because I just feel like this needs to come back before this slide.

So this is an opportunity for you guys to look at it to think about it, ask questions, and then to come back to a decision.

Council Reynolds.

Um the piece of equipment that we voted to buy in Nashville where we want to uh decide not to have five and a half million amount of money we had voted once.

Yeah, yeah.

So five and a half nine on your list right here.

Uh that's the point of project uh water resources.

Um the large scale plans or projects listed here are capital improvement projects.

Um in the uh 10-year plan or plan.

This slide is just showing um those capital improvement projects that are needed for the the uh water facility.

Um it also talks about the headworks, which is already budgeted.

Uh the purpose were um council already approved 19 million start in January.

Um this is just kind of indicating the the full picture of water renewal budgeting and uh needs.

So these capital improvement projects will be budgeted um within those years that are indicated on the slide.

Okay, so what I was getting at was that five and a half million that we approved.

But there's equipment we didn't buy, where's that money sitting now?

So that was read.

So it's all by loans.

So this is 100% financial lows.

So what would be helpful when we get into discussions coming?

And thanks, Doug, for jumping in.

I don't know about the other council members, but when you got 26 through 28, 27 through 28 and so forth, if it's scattered out on a on a spreadsheet out seven years, and here's where the money is going in each call and a lot more easy.

It's easier for me to visualize where that money is going and how it's stretching up.

Um is a bit stretched now.

So I think the council's clarity we need that clear diagram of what we're asking where the funds are coming from, how we spend these specials clearity, but what are what these council chooses to address?

Because everything that we know everything are the benefits has a costume because the benefit we have the cost, that's what we want to verify.

And the product sewer came in higher, I mean, then the original budget, right?

And so we're having to identify the funds to finish that project.

And that's a very, very important discussion for the council to have that does have a return because if we don't get that sewer over to Canada, our developers can't finish their development.

And if they don't have sewer, they pause this, and we've got people ready to go.

Um sometimes we're looking at them, but yeah, they're they're all kind of company.

Oh, it shouldn't improve something else.

That's what I'm concerned about.

So we're with magic box on the conclude statement.

So we have a lot of that information already at all.

It's just difficult to get on the slide and cover it.

We can improve everything and kind of do one thing to talk about these very items.

So um, so we will bring this back to the uh council item in January February's with asked on financial part of it, but we're not looking at increase the budget anywhere.

I just would like to uh know if some of those funds could have been allocated towards maybe a water line breaking and transportation on repaid road rather than oh, we had 200,000 line and we use that rather than doing questions.

That's the only thing that I'll have, but I think it's more clarity about sure.

Any other questions or comments?

Very good.

So we could follow up with the one on one case I think the water resources.

Um to us um right after we discussed rates uh at council, and uh they came to us requesting um a review of their fees that they charge us.

Um essentially what they have come to us with they got off formally um submitted their letter to request that that uh review, um, but that is forthcoming.

Um the way they handle their fees is they have a $30 um fee for administrating all of our water needs.

Um so what that what that $30 fee handles is the 24,000 parcel that NAMPA Marine has within our city limits, um and that we service, but they provide the water for that and they have certain uh administrative fees uh ties that.

Um so also the the property owners farmer uh they also pay that $30 fee for their one parcel.

So they're looking to make that a little more equitable as say uh city of NAMPA um we would like to look at all of our budget their their allocations and say somebody really have a higher need uh and and use that for NAMPA itself and what we get from them and so they want to go through that and revisit.

Uh they've made clear that they're not asking for $30 a parcel um for our 24,000 parcels.

They're looking for uh just a little more equity, uh but uh through that there will be potentially NBT increase.

So we have more increase when we only need for the next budget year not correct.

Okay, as well, but just on what you said per parcel, the third parcel that has an apartment complex on it, is that apartment complex, and we're paying $30 administered potentially a thousand units.

So in the way Napa Marine Irrigation District handles their administration's e is per parcel.

Okay.

Yes, thank you.

So right now we pay $30 times $24,000.

We pay $30 for all $24,000.

Whereas if there could be a farmer who pays $30 for his one parcel.

So we paid $30 as of right now, and they want to review it to make it more equitable.

Correct.

And ultimately, okay, but it's $30.

It's not 30 times $24,000.

Just I think that's a very low number that all of us are surprised by.

We paid $30 for them to administer those $24,000 parcel.

So they're gonna look at reviewing that as if it really doesn't hit network.

This isn't FYI.

I would encourage us that for council members not to go to Marine irrigation ask questions.

If they have questions, you come to John to ask questions.

Um, but that this was just information for council to say it's really to help you guys be informed.

Just to be informed.

I know that they'll they'll be reviewing it.

You said maybe in March maybe located maybe an update.

We were supposed to get an official notice from them in December.

We have not received that to my knowledge yet.

Um, and we discussed uh completing any negotiating or review body march so we could then uh address anything that may be needed within the budget cycle.

Was the review called forwards in the marine as well, or is it just NAPA that's being reviewed?

They came to us.

I don't know if it's open to any other uh municipalities.

Um meridian does not have their own treasure irrigation, so NAPA read would handle any of the individual uh parcels that they have within that within the city meridian.

Directly with the parcels.

So we have very different so it's totally that's not comparable.

Thank you.

John, it'd be helpful when you do come and we discuss it again, how much we do pay for that meridian.

Total parcels total total or roughly in the 750,000 dollars a year in our full assessment if we're taking a both number.

Do you foresee a significant sticker shock?

I I just feel that it's similar to the local shelter I know that originally paid a certain amount and then it's not even comparable.

Are we going from 30 to 30,000?

Or have they even given a queue up of what they're closing?

They have not given us in the navigation.

The only conversation we had was that they were not looking for $30 a parcel.

That's about the extent of the discussion we had.

It was a it was really, but yes, there is a potential.

I hope $72, $720,000 is not what they would come back, would that be a little scary for no it wouldn't it would be I think the $30,000, I mean $30 per $24,000 parcels it would be significantly less than that, but that's what we have to sit down.

They wanted that us to actually go through line by line with their allocations to determine what was equitable.

How many total costs is more than charge to us?

So what are we charging to us how many total cost is more than our charged to us and is that appropriate for the level of service we're seeing thank you very much I appreciate that update.

So with this you guys know we'll reach out to if you have questions if you get with John you can get Tom on the general waste and is there anything that you want to share.

EGA funds uh significant portion of DEQ's water quality um staff through grant funding so there is that potential and the you will also be raising um fees uh in the near future and following that um and seeing when that goes to the legislature legislators during this legislative session but we're bound to pay that bill because it's a federal agency correct there's no negotiating with DQ but they can charge the resignable and yes now the EPA is essentially putting more on the the state itself to fund and we spend the back on us and um we can certainly go and stand the board legislators when that when that comes to them to have those discussions and uh the the treasure value career that we meet with um we we discussed that um and we discussed that with the Q every other one and so we're trying to we're trying to understand what what their needs are and how this will be presented.

Or they have cost taxes they want to take money that we do have but they want to say the costs everything else.

Thank you thank you thank you very much.

Thank you.

Okay motion to adjourn so thank you.

Merry Christmas everybody