Ready?

Good.

Here you go.

Like to call a meeting of the budget review committee to order.

It's Monday, March 23rd, 2026.

It's 833 and PM.

We're in the aldermatic chamber, and it's been duly noticed in two places, including the city's website in accordance with the requirements of RSA 91-A.

The clerk please call the roll.

Alderman O'Large Michael O'Brien is present.

Alderman at large Shoshana Kelly.

I'm here.

Alderman at large.

Alicia Greg.

I'm here.

Alderman Derrick Tiaboat.

Here.

Alderman Fallard Johnson.

Present.

Thank you.

Alderman 10 Senate, the Vice Chair?

Here.

And Alderman Richard Dowd.

Present.

Okay.

We have also in attendance.

Alderman Wilshire.

Alderman is Clay.

And Sullivan.

Sullivan.

He is Zoom.

Cover the also in attendance.

Okay.

Also in attendance is Liz Hannem, Economic Development Director.

Lisa Foto, Public Works Director, Tim Cummings, Administrative Service Director via Zoom.

And Chief Kevin Rock of the National Police Department.

And others.

And also with Chief Kennedy of NPD.

Who's that?

The other chief.

You can't see it.

Anyway.

Did I I said Chief War?

Did I?

Yes.

Oh, it's the third one.

All right.

First item on the agenda is public comment.

Is there anyone that wishes to speak in public comment?

Seeing no one.

Communication.

There is none.

Unfinished business.

Before us this evening is our dash 26-003 as amended.

Relative to supplemental appropriation of $15,000 of assigned fund balance at the Department 161 streets account 5130 overtime.

And $40,000 of assigned fund balance to Department 177 Parks account 5130 overtime.

Mr.

Chairman, I'd like to make a motion to recommend final passage.

No questions.

Complete transparency, and I want the public to hear that and to know that.

And I appreciate all the hard work that everybody does.

So thank you.

All the minutes are online.

Yes.

All right.

Any other questions?

Seeing none.

Uh motion is by Alderman O'Brien to recommend to the full board final passage of R26003.

Would you call the roll?

We don't need a roll call.

He's not on our committee.

We don't need to do a roll call.

Oh, yeah.

Everybody have a committee.

Committee.

Yes.

Yes, but we oh, he's not we have somebody online.

We still have to do it.

He's not in budget.

He's not on budget.

Not on the committee.

He doesn't know.

All right.

All those in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Opposed.

Motion carries.

I just saved the minute.

Yes.

Also before us this evening is odd-26.

007.

Authorizing the mayor and city treasurer to issue bonds not to see three million dollars by the public works division garage design.

Mr.

Chairman, I would like to make a motion to recommend final passage.

Motion is to recommend final passage of the amended R26007 to the full board.

Any discussion?

Alderman Tebow?

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I should make a joke about the James Bond reference, right?

And say license to build.

Right?

License to build.

So I um I definitely will be supporting this.

I think it's I mean, I've I've been there and it's been a few years since I've been there.

So I mean it it's a it's a crime scene.

Chief Rock should come up here and arrest us for allowing people to be in that building.

It's it's it's it's like uh Director Photo said it's deplorable, it's in in bad shape.

Um and I mean I know we're in times when spending money is we have to look at every dollar, so it it's it is concerning that we have to spend this kind of money, but I I mean how long can you you let people live in or work in a situation like that?

Um I do have a question for Director Photo.

Um so I they put up the slide earlier where it had the different um concepts and 200 plus thousand square feet, and now we're what 130,000 square feet.

Um and it doesn't it's up to 47 percent of vehicles covered opposed to what we are today.

Is this gonna allow that some years in the future, 20, 30, 40 that you could expand it?

Will there be room to expand this into a bigger facility if needed someday in Nashville's history or I suppose we probably could do that, but I feel very comfortable that this will meet the needs of not only our current operation but future uh operations.

We we will not be able to store everything inside, but we will at least be able to store inside what we need to seasonally, which which will be a big help.

So so this gets let's guess gets us completely undercover in terms of our plow equipment, for instance.

So that would include all of streets, all the parks, everything.

So you know, we'll have some other covered storage.

You've probably seen the C-span structures that we have now that the trash trucks are under at the at the landfill.

So we'll we're gonna try to you utilize that so that everything is at least undercover if they're not inside a building.

So so uh we we feel we've spent a lot of time, the team and and myself, um and uh and the experts really looking at this, and and we do feel like that it will meet the needs of of the division for many many years to come.

Follow up comment.

Um so uh the question was asked in the earlier meeting, like how you know how this impacts or saves Nashwins, or how does it help them?

Um, and I I think the one thing that uh appealed to me in the presentation that I caught.

Um we've we've talked about this a lot before, so a lot of those things we'd already gone over, but when showing the example of how long it takes to get a vehicle out of there to go plow a street or to do something compared to how easy it would be in the new garage, and that half an hour.

I mean, we get calls, we all probably get calls or or email saying, hey, my street's not done yet.

What the heck?

How come my streets not done?

And maybe this will give that, right?

And that will help people get their streets done quicker, or whatever their issue is, right?

Because now you don't have to wait a half an hour, you don't have to do all the work that you have to now to get that out there.

So um, you know, the comment earlier about transparency and DPW has been great with any projects.

You guys did the obviously the other building, um, and I toured that before that building was done, and I toured the the facility there.

I remember people saying, Oh, yeah, we work here, you know, you can hear the mice going up and down the the walls, and I'm like who wants to work in an office where the mice are going up and down the walls, right?

So um, you know, that project, I don't I don't see any right to nose on that project.

So obviously we were pretty transparent about that, and the money was followed in the correct way.

So um, whatever that was spouted was wrong, and I I feel confident that your department and the people that are working with you and for you, and and even director Cummings, um, I think we'll be fine and and making sure we get the updates we need on this.

So I'm gonna I'm gonna support this piece tonight.

Okay, thank you.

Alderman Senate and then Alderman Kelly.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

I um Alderman Tebow store stole sort of my thunder, but I'm may dwell on that for a second anyway.

But um I I had a question in the immediacy, and um I I guess this would probably be a uh question best directed toward Director Cummings.

Um we have a lot of projects that I feel like sometimes get hung up in the design phase.

I just want to be sure I I I like this legislation that's in front of us tonight because it's two and a half million dollars cheaper than what was uh originally being contemplated, but I just want to be sure that if we approve this three million tonight, this is it for design.

Next next asset is going to be construction.

If I may, Mr.

Chairman.

Oh, he disappeared.

He's hiding downstairs.

Yeah, yes, thank you.

I just want to be clear.

Yes, this would be it for design.

Uh so that's on the record.

Uh follow-up.

Follow up.

All right, so that covers my concerns here.

Um longer term, um, which I don't want to dwell on too long because we'll be contemplating construction and finalized designs down the road.

But the one hang up I'm still sitting here on is um forty-seven percent of our vehicles indoors is better than 20 percent.

I'm almost a little disappointed that for this sale price, um, we're not getting more indoors.

I know we've got a lot.

You know, I I've looked at other projects.

I think one of the um one of the firms involved in this did the uh the one down in Lexington several years ago.

Uh Lexington and Nashua are apples and oranges, but um was a higher number of our vehicles indoors contemplated, and what was the cost difference on that?

Like to get us at least over that 50% threshold.

Was that considered at all?

Was it just too cost prohibitive?

Um, anybody who can speak to that.

That's yeah.

Um when we when we looked at this, we really we tried to pare it down to a point that we thought we we could operate efficiently within, but that was still a fair number uh for the natural taxpayers.

And that that's really and you saw um Rob Perunier's slide where he showed you know that what in a perfect world what we what we would have liked and then what what we felt like we would be very comfortable operating within.

Now, as I mentioned, the goal is to have everything at least undercover, and it not that may that might be cold storage, but still undercover, so it's uh you know, it's out of the snow and and and and ice and all of that.

That's the goal.

We're we're uh good ways towards that now because we do have some of those seat span structures that we will be utilizing.

So we'll have a a good portion of our equipment will be on at least undercover, if not in minimally heated storage.

Um could could we build a uh a big a bigger building, uh of course, and and we certainly could come back to you with with those numbers, uh Alderman Senate if you'd like us to produce that just to for comparison purposes.

I I think it's more just a sticking point than anything.

You know, you you look at a big ticket price like that, you hoping that you get more than 47% of the vehicles indoors.

Again, it's still better than 20, and you know, obviously a long time coming, uh, given the state of that garage.

You you've taken me through there before.

Um if I could one final question.

Um just along that same line of thinking.

We were presented with um a cost-benefit analysis, which was really happy to see because that's something that a few of us were asking for last year.

Those numbers I just want to be certain are specific to Nashua and specific to this particular arrangement that we're looking at in regard to moving 47% of our vehicles indoors, those numbers are tied to that configuration.

That's correct.

All right, yes, thank you so much.

Um Alderman Son, I did want to mention one other thing to you too.

When it um, and this is actually something that um that commissioner uh Greg uh mentioned that he thought was important, and and I think it will be for what you're saying.

The 67 vehicles that we have in indoors now, they're they are like stacked.

I mean, you couldn't fit you can barely you saw the the picture that we had.

You you can't you can't even walk through this.

This would allow us to have the vehicles sort of um stacked in in spaces so that we can operate much more efficiently.

So we could fit a lot more if we just if we if we stack them like we do now.

We could probably fit probably another 50 or 60, but we wouldn't want to do that because what we want to be able to do is get get you know get inside the building and have our operation run more efficiently than it does now so that that an employee can get it in their truck back out, drive out and start and start plowing rather than having you know somebody's in the third truck and then they they've got to wait for the first two trucks to get out, and you know it just it's it's very cumbersome to operate the way we're trying to operate.

So um so that's another factor too that's yeah, yeah.

I appreciate the uh no, I do appreciate the flexibility and um to make the world's worst analogy as somebody who's implemented um new ERPs.

Let's not buy something new, fancy and shiny and then recreate the same problems that we have with something new.

So thank you.

You're welcome.

Just one question, Director Photo.

Does the number of vehicles we're storing inside include the ones in the maintenance bay?

Um no.

No, so there's some vehicles that could be stored in there as well that are being maintained.

That's correct.

Is it more 70 vehicles that we would store would we'd just be in the storage building?

That's that's a good point.

There will be additional vehicles stored in the fleet area.

You're you're correct, all the done.

All right, thank you.

Uh, just thank you to everyone for the previous presentations in the public hearing.

There was very thorough, some of the cost analysis was stuff that you know was really helpful for uh I know me.

Uh my questions are actually directed to the gentleman from who put up the sustainability slide.

Couldn't remember.

Thank you.

So I'm on the energy environment committee and we've done a multiple uh pieces of legislation about our goals.

So I had a few questions around uh some of the sustainability.

Uh so I guess I'll start with um maybe this is director photo.

But I was wondering if as we're moving to having more EV vehicles, do they have different needs in terms of equipment or space when you're maintaining them?

And did we consider that?

Yeah, well, when you're maintaining them, they definitely have different needs in the current fleet building is being designed to be able to handle the electric vehicles in the base.

So we have you know, obviously have charging stuff that's inside, but they have different ventilation requirements and things.

Um we also have um sprinkle systems and things that can handle um that kind of stuff.

So the building is being designed to be able to uh maintain EV vehicles as well.

So if I could follow up.

Follow up.

Thank you.

Uh the other thing you mentioned, I think it said it was you're gonna place the stuff to put chargers in, but there will there not be any at all to start.

There will be a uh a significant number of charges, I think, enough for the current vehicles.

They don't they don't have a huge EV fleet yet.

I don't know how many vehicles there are yet.

Um but the inf so we're putting in a bunch in the front right now, but they'll also be the infrastructure's all there to just kind of add them as we need them.

And then one more follow-up, if I could.

Sure.

I think the other thing you mentioned was solar, it'd be equipped for solar, but we will not be putting solar in from the beginning.

Correct.

Yeah, I mean, solar right now, you know, is is still um there's multiple kind of funding mechanisms for solar and um putting them into the project in the capital costs at the front is super not that common at the moment.

Um, because there's opportunities for development of solar and power purchase agreements and all kinds of different ways of going about it.

So what we want to do with this building is make it flexible enough to be attractive to all the various kinds of ways that you might go about um implementing solar, um even as much as how we're putting things on the roof and making sure we have optimum roof space um and obviously a place to just connect.

So uh so that's kind of where we're at with uh with the solar part.

So thank you.

Our solar so far has been a public-private partnership and no cost to the city.

So yeah, until we buy them out, right?

Yep, I get it.

Thank you.

That's what I wanted to know.

Aldman Sullivan.

Thank you.

Um I understand that I'm not on the committee, so I appreciate you taking my questions.

Um first question was around uh the slide that was shown and where you did a cost benefit analysis, and I appreciate that, but I uh I didn't have the presentation in front of me, so I just jotted down some numbers here, and based on the annual savings, the building will pay for itself through savings between uh 60 years and 108 years.

Um but I do understand that there were some other savings that were realized, and I'm hoping that we can get a copy of that presentation.

It's gonna be part of the minutes.

Perfect.

I have a follow-up, please.

Follow up, go ahead.

When do we anticipate the full construction amount to be before the board?

Who can answer that?

I'm gonna let Director Cummings.

Director Cummings.

Yeah, yes, can you hear me?

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah, I can I can answer that.

And again, Tim Cummings, Director of Administrative Services.

Uh I would anticipate us being able to present uh some sort of uh construction bond resolution, probably in the May time frame is how I see this unfolding at this time.

Something something uh in in and around that that that type of time frame.

We're trying to uh EFO and right now you're trying really hard to sync it up with the budget schedule, and as you know, that's a that's you know, we're we're working through some of those details right now, but we're definitely this spring.

Thank you.

Could I have just one more, please?

Go ahead.

Thank you.

Um there was a gentleman that spoke about the energy efficiencies, and there was talk about how uh the heat captured from uh the methane gas would be used to to heat the building.

I'm wondering if we can put a price tag on that, how much we would be saving specifically through capturing that heat to heat this building.

Scott?

Sure.

Yeah, this is Scott LeClaire again from Fitzmeyer and Tatchi.

Um so it's approximately about a hundred thousand dollars a year.

Um the slides do have the numbers in it, they're down on the bottom of the chart.

Um against like a code minimum building, it's it's right around a hundred thousand.

Um that's for the heating energy offset right there.

Oh sorry.

Thank you.

Yeah, yes, thank you.

All said, okay.

And then I have all the Greg.

Uh, thank you.

So I just wanted to talk to you about we haven't talked a lot about the uh efficiency part of this, that they really are running.

You know, we I think they do a great job right now with snow removal, they certainly were tested this year, and right now they're trying to operate in multiple locations, which is tough.

So I would just say anybody who has not gone to take the tour of the streets, you really really should because when we talk about numbers, I think sometimes it's hard to wrap our head around.

But um, like Director Foto just talked about that like for like situation when they say they have 67 vehicles inside right now.

Um, if you made that operational, like what they were showing on the diagram with the truck hanging out, it'd probably be more like you could maybe put maybe 20 in there.

Like they have to angle these things to get them in right now, and it's just it's really awful.

So I think that overall I would just encourage um anyone who hasn't gone and done the tour to make sure that they go do that and really look at that because there are certain things we're not gonna be able to put prices on just yet until we start really um moving this, but that operational thing and our um the hourly rate for our employees and stuff, all of that is gonna be affected by having an efficient process.

All said uh thank you very much.

Um a question for Mr.

Cummings, please.

Director Cummings.

Um you said this um piece of legislation, this resolution, we dropped it from 5.5 million down to 3 million, and you had stated that the 2.5 million will be going into the construction of the building instead of upfront quests, it's gonna be more on the back end.

Is that correct?

What I was reading.

If I may, Mr.

Chairman.

Go ahead.

Uh no, not all of that 2.5 would necessarily get put into the back end, uh, but but certainly some of it would uh they you know, as an example, there's really no need for the early release packages anymore.

Uh that we were that we were contemplating in the and I have it I have a feeling that the fire training facility is gonna be uh done in a way that you know potentially could be less less money.

Um so I don't believe it would rise to the whole 2.5 uh as indicated.

Okay.

Do you have a follow-up?

Yeah, I've got a couple of follow-ups, thank you.

Okay, so we're not gonna use that extra 2.5 now, but in the scheme of the project, so you're eliminating 2.5 for when you get the bond, because you don't need it at the front end, so you're not gonna need it at the back end either.

Uh not the whole 2.5.

Do I so first I want to say for the record, we haven't finished design, so I really don't know what the true project cost is.

We we are giving you our best estimates at this time.

We need to go through a value engineering exercise.

We're gonna need to get further along in design before I have any true confidence in what that real number is, but it the best I can tell you is we're we're hovering around 48 uh milli million dollars uh or or thereabouts, at least that's that's what it's that's what it's looking like at this time.

Now, could we could we go up 500,000 dollars potentially?

Could we go down 500,000?

Potentially.

Uh but you know, we're we're we're in that type of of conversation.

Okay.

May I follow up?

Yeah, follow-up.

Um are we going to see all the projects?

Because tomorrow night we're going to be talking about the fire station on Pine Hill.

So that's another big project.

So I'm gonna ask you how many big projects are you putting before us over the within the next one to two years, only because you know, this is very important.

The fire station is going to be very important.

You know, there's just so much money of the bonding that can go around, and I keep saying what is the priorities of our buildings that we're going to have to do.

I because I was looking at the packet earlier, the renovation set on the fire stations.

You're asking to build another one.

We have to do the um DPW garage.

So I'd like to get some type of um between now and then, I guess.

What is going to be our priorities on all these buildings, new buildings and renovations because I answer that?

The uh ad hoc committee that was set up is going to we pass legislation that we would spend X amount of money on projects a year over the next five to ten years, and the ad hoc committee puts them in the slots, and that will break down each project and when the money is going to be bonded, and that will be coming soon, but I don't call that meeting.

Okay, because I remember back when I even before I got elected, that the goal was no more than 25 million dollars a year in bonding, if I remember correctly, because we were talking about that at the at the McCarthy Middle School.

Director I may, Mr.

Chairman.

Yeah, go ahead.

If I may.

Yeah, thank you.

Tim Cummings, Director of Administrative Services.

Um almost 100% correct on that statement.

It was 25 million over an average of five years.

So you know, you could have some years more or less.

Uh, and again, we're talking about debt service that we can accommodate.

It also needed to be adjusted for for inflation.

Um that was the policy guidance given uh previously through the ad hoc committee.

We will be certainly following that over the coming months, and we will be you know having that type of policy level conversation again during this during this budget season.

May I follow up?

Follow up because if you have some years that you have less, it all has to average out at the end.

If we're talking about that 25 million dollar debt service each year, then we should be going over it, even if some years are less and some years a little bit more.

Yep, you're adjusting for that, so it's within the realm.

And I just want to okay.

So I'm glad we're on the same page.

And I just want to um make a comment um to Alderman Greg, because when you said about operating out of multiple locations, um the garage was always there, but the administration building was in another place, so they did operate out of different locations before.

I know that we want to combine it, and at this point in time, I'm probably not gonna support this till I get more information.

This is just for the beginning of the design phase, but I need more information.

I will take um director photos.

Umitation to go take a look because I only saw a small piece of the garage.

I've seen the garage before, parts of it.

Um, but um I know that um right now I need more questions answered, and you know, this is a big project.

More money is being spent.

I understand the facility, I know part of what the building is like, but you know, this is a big project to undertake.

Tomorrow night we're gonna be listening to the fire station number five.

And so, you know, we've got to put all this into perspective right now, the cost factor and how many years if we're gonna do this next year, and it's the fire station gonna be bonded.

Which year exactly is that gonna happen because everything's a priority, and um, you know, it's gonna pass whether I vote for it or not.

And it's not saying that I don't appreciate the employees.

I'm just looking at it from each perspective here, and that's what I normally do, and I usually give my reasons why I do when I don't do things.

Thank you very much.

What else?

Alderman Clee.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Um, I I too have taken a tour.

I took a tour when I became an alderman um uh eight, nine years ago.

Um, and uh director photo and and Ms.

Byers took me around to all of the places within um DPW.

Um and I don't want to make it sound like our our our people are working under substandard conditions, but truthfully, I want to say they were working under substandard conditions.

The the tour that I took of the landfill and um the trailers, everybody there had a smile on their face.

Everybody there was kind.

No one said you have to do something.

There was no anger or malice towards anybody here in this room or um management or anything else like that.

Everybody was very good and went with the flow because they understood the tax dollars and they've been taking it in the shorts for a very long time.

So when we say that we care about employees, we care about them cleaning up and making sure they don't get needle sticks.

Well, we should care about also where they're um sitting and where they're working and the safety of getting around equipment.

Um the safety within the buildings.

I I would never want to work in a place like that, and I can tell you I worked at the Department of Veterans Affairs at the VA Hospital in Bedford, where every day we used to joke about how fast the mold was growing behind the plaster as it would bubble up.

Um so I know employees do.

I know employees do what they have to do to to do that.

Comments have been made about you know people wanting to leave.

Um I think our public works maintains and retains their employees, and I think this is the right thing to do.

I think if the average citizen went and toured this, they would um they would not want their tax dollars to be going to this type of building.

We hear over and over again we have to maintain buildings and we have to do this and so on.

I think that um the city has taken on the effort of building maintenance.

Um we are um really taking that uh to heart.

We're we're listening and so on.

When when presenters, people who work in the field say that it's gonna cost more to try to fix that building or retrofit that building and still not have what we need as a minimum.

I don't want to waste the taxpayers' dollars.

We have a fiduciary responsibility to these residents here, and we should do the right thing by them.

Um I'm not on this committee, I'm not gonna get to vote, but I will get to vote when it does come to the Board of Alderman, and I will be supporting this.

Um I'm glad we're doing design, and I do agree with one of my colleagues who said that sometimes we get bogged down in design.

Um, and you know, will this be the last one, or will we be having more and more?

The problem is I think the reason why we get bogged down in design is because it comes to this board and we say um, no, it's too expensive, do it again.

Or can we cut this or can we cut that?

I think all the cuts have already been made before it's come to us as far as this cost is.

Um so I think that this will be a good chance.

I do have a question for whoever can answer this.

We we talked about only having certain percentage of vehicles being able to be into the um the garage.

Um and we talked and and we saw in the presentation that um there's some some major aspects of trying to get the fleet out there quickly because of cold starts and so on.

Um is it possible that during certain seasons certain vehicles will be put in there like for the winter, we'll have all the plows and and so on, so we can get them right off.

And and also that I kind of put it here as you know, what we often see in people who have children and so on, where you're kind of moving the cars around.

Um, will that be something that we'll be doing with these garages?

See, we can only have 47 percent.

Yes, absolutely.

Uh Alderman Clee, that's exactly what we'll be doing.

Uh, we will be in the winter time, all of our plow trucks will be stored inside, so we'll be ready to go.

Um we can transition some of those out during the summer months so we can put some of the parks equipment that we need um again in a moment's notice uh as well.

So, yes, we seasonally we're going to be shifting equipment.

Thank you.

I appreciate it, and thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Anyone else?

I just want to say that I get to work with the members of the public works department quite frequently, and in my opinion, we have one of the best public works divisions anywhere.

They go above and beyond more than you know.

And the only questions I've ever gotten in the recent times is can we hire more people from DPW so they can do more?

And I mean, I say we've tried to hire additional plow drivers, but we have a problem with finding people qualified with a commercial driver's license, and we're in competition with bus companies and everybody else.

So uh they do a great job.

They act you know, in a timely manner and get all the work that they need to get done done, and it's about time that they've been working with substanding conditions.

It's about time that the city stood up and gave them better facilities to work in, and the cost savings, I think will go substantially towards any cost of this bond.

Having said that, when the all those in favor of R 26007 is amended, signified by saying aye.

I suppose Abstain.

Well, what grounds?

I said it at the last one.

I'm working with one advice.

Oh, okay.

I've been required by counsel to not.

All right.

Opposed?

One opposed.

Motion carries.

All right.

New business resolutions.

Also before us tonight is R 26017, approving the cost items from a collective bargaining agreement between the National Board of Police Commissioners and the National Police Patrolman's Association from July 1st, 2026 through June 30th, 2030.

Mr.

Chairman, I'd like to make the motion, recommend final passage.

Motion is to recommend the full board final passage of R26017.

Is there anyone here that's going to be presenting?

By the way, I believe if uh if I'm correct that the previous motion is going to be on tomorrow night's agenda.

Yes.

Yes, it is.

Yes.

Pete Rourke.

You can cut you can sit if you'd like.

The hour is late.

Right.

What do I need Karen?

Of course you are.

Thanks for watching.

Come on up, Karen.

For the real tough questions.

Yeah, right.

Good evening, members and uh members.

Good evening, Mr.

Chairman and members of the budget committee.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you tonight regarding the patrolman's contract.

I know that many of you have already showed your support by endorsing the contract with 11 aldermen and the mayor's support.

We appreciate your continued support.

First, um I want to make notion that uh the three police commissioners and I support this contract.

And uh I want to give kudos to the patrolmen because the times we're in with law enforcement and retention and recruiting.

Uh they came in there very respectful.

Um they trusted the process, and at the end of the day, uh they provided a lot of valuable information that we learned um with other contracts in the state, which we were very surprised.

So over the years, um, as you know, there hasn't been as many applications in the past for law enforcement, where seven, eight years ago we had we would have five, six hundred people show up for a test.

Uh last Saturday or the Saturday before we had a test and 19 people showed up.

And I will say we are one of the premier organizations, not only in the state, not only in New England.

I would put us up against anybody in the country.

Um, and to learn some of this information of, and we were taking people from us, the bigger agencies were taking officers from smaller towns.

Um the smaller towns, I think got tired of you know, us Manchester, State Police, Lenendary of taking these offices.

So they started paying the officers.

And believe it or not, one of our neighboring communities, Hudson PD, um Laconia, uh, some of these smaller agencies, even Conket, who lost a tremendous amount of officers over the last couple years, have now started um they're right right in the ballpark with us.

Uh actually, some of those have surpassed us, Hudson and Laconia, Laconia is still the highest paid, even if this thing passes, they will still be the highest paid in the state.

Um, so they got tired, I think, of losing other offices.

Because I mean, it is true.

If you to train an officer is a lot more expensive than retaining one.

Um, so we've found that out over the last five years.

Uh just statistics that we've had, we have hired 79 officers over the last five years.

So in recruiting, I think we're finding the right officers to come here.

And you know, as as you all know, it's not easy to get hired by the National Police Department.

I will tell you that we get a lot of certified applications, and over 50% of those applications we turn away.

So it just because you're a certified police officer does not mean you're getting hired by the National Police Department.

We have a tough standard to get hired here, um, whether you're certified or not.

So we've held that standard, and that's probably why we're down 15 officers right now.

Um to train someone is a lot more expensive than retaining them.

So when the patrolman came in a couple months ago for this contract, um, and they started negotiating, they negotiated with Deputy Kenny, who did a great job, uh, Karen Smith, Tim Cummings represented in Attorney Bolton.

Um, I can tell you that I was a little surprised of the number that they um came in with.

I thought it would have been a lot higher.

I would thought they would have asked for a lot more.

They were respectful and they understood what the conditions in the city are and what the mayor's guidance were.

So I do applaud them for that.

So I also believe in we have to pay them a good salary fair and be consistent because of what the other agencies are doing, and then what we are about.

Um, and I think we're above everybody else in the state, New England in this in this area.

Um, the training that we do, and I will tell you, and I think you guys all know that the the past uh couple years we've been involved in some pretty major incidents.

One of them, um, you know, and you don't know till you get to that because we've seen other agencies fail at that when you have an active shooter.

If you watch around the country, there's been many agencies that failed.

I will tell you that they performed flawlessly that night.

I think anybody that knows anything about what happened that night, they will say the same exact thing.

And why were they flawless?

Because they trained, they had the courage.

Uh and you don't know till you get to that spot whether you're gonna have the courage to go into a spot.

We saw it down in Florida where there was a shooting in a classroom and they stood outside the classroom.

Well, the men and women of Nashville ran right into that uh restaurant and that event that night.

Um so it is a different agency, and they we train that way.

We hire, we hire, and I always say it, we hire we hire good people and we make them great police officers.

And I think that recipe has been successful over.

I've been here for 27 years.

Um, you know, and very proud to work here uh and now to be chief, but the the people we hire is a different level.

Um so on that spiel, um, just to get back that the again when we brought that we brought this to the police commissioners, they were they agreed with it right away.

I agreed with it right away.

Um but in today's, you know, I think that we can all agree in today's world, policing has become increasingly complex.

Um 30 years ago when I started, they do a lot more than than we did 30 years ago.

And not only the complex policing, but now add in all the technology that we have.

Um several of our specialty units are the best around.

When there's a major incident, and you've seen the officer-involved shootings or major incidents in the state, they call the National Police Department for advice.

Uh our policies, accreditation.

We're at we're at it at a standard with CLIA.

Um they have state accreditation, clear is the next level.

Um we have 462 standards that we have to abide by.

We just got accreditation a couple months ago.

Uh perfect score again.

If you guys remember last uh two years ago when we had our accreditation, our four-year process, we had we have 462 standards, perfect score.

Advanced accreditation, not the straight creditation.

So we have more standards.

Not only do you have the standards, but you have to approve you have to show proofs that you're doing the policy of what they say.

And accreditation, if you don't know that um clear is the gold standard of police work.

It's kind of I say it dumb it down, it's a playbook of law enforcement.

Um, so they they provide you with a standard, you have to follow the standard and you have to show examples that you do it.

Um, like I said, perfect score four years ago.

We just had our annual one this year, another perfect score.

Um so I I think in the contract what they negotiated was mostly raises.

Um, and I can go through those raises for you.

It's a four-year contract.

The first year is a four percent, the second year is a four percent, the third year is a three and a half percent, and the fourth year is a three and a half percent.

In there, what we saw is in our first 10 or 12 years, um, we're doing very good standing up against other agencies.

And right now, our biggest biggest problem right now is retention.

So, yes, we've hired 79 officers in five years, but we've also lost 75.

So we've gained four officers in four years, which is amazing when I saw the numbers.

Um we have a tremendous amount of them just leaving the job.

And when I came on 30 years ago, no one no one left the National Police Department.

If they did, they went to Mass State Police, or they went to a federal agency, which we trained them up, and then they go to a federal agency.

That still does happen, don't get me wrong.

You don't see us leaving to go really to another New Hampshire agency.

But they still do go to the feds and they go to the Mass Station Massachusetts State Police because as you know, probably 80% of our police departments from Massachusetts, including myself.

So they will go back down there, but now what we're seeing over the last five years is officers leaving the profession altogether.

Um, because of the complexity of it.

So I would say more than half of those half of the 75 have left the profession and gone somewhere else and went into the private sector.

That is concerning.

Um because we need more police officers.

We did recently we did an assessment with the the formula for the International Association of Chiefs of Police.

Where you take amount the amount of calls for service, how long you spend on those calls, um also motor vehicle stops that we conduct, we put that into a formula that uh International Association Chiefs of Police has designed, and right now we're not we should have 18 more police officers in the in the city in patrol, just in patrol.

That's not detectives or anywhere else in the building.

That's just in patrol, and we all know what's going on in the city with the growing with the with the development of housing and more people moving into the city, which is which is great.

But at some point we're gonna be in trouble here because we're gonna be hind behind the eight ball.

You also had two large casinos move into town.

Um so you know, you have one officer right now, the way we have it set up.

We will look at this uh our sector boundary coverage, but right now you have one officer that covers from the area of Tully Buick all the way down the Danube up to the highway, all the way out Spitbrook Road to the Mass Line, one officer, and you have a cover car.

So essentially two officers, and if it's busy downtown, let our other cover car is downtown.

So we are definitely gonna have to look at expanding, but I I can't honestly come before you when I'm down 15 people and ask for more officers.

I just I can't do that.

I I will never do that as long as I'm chief.

But that day is gonna come, just be prepared.

When we get back up to full staff with the housing, which is great, and more businesses is fabulous to bring into the city.

But response times and officers safety in in the safety of the community is gonna be important.

So that day is gonna come.

I don't know if I'll be here when that day comes, but um that that is definitely a problem coming forward.

So I if you guys have any questions about the contract, I can go through it.

Um but again, they mainly focused on raises because they wanted to be compensated.

They could ask for other stuff, they were respectful, professional.

I applaud them for that.

Um I think they they definitely could ask for a lot more stuff.

They were they were really good, is what I'm saying.

Questions?

Hello, and Kelly.

Uh thank you.

Um thank you two for coming in.

I knew you guys run a tight chip, and I'm always proud that we have such an incredible uh group of people on the on the national police department.

Um my questions, I think this is a fair contract.

My questions are a little bit more logistical.

Um the first one I was actually hoping Director Cummings was gonna stay on.

But my I had the same question when we had the um the last contract in front of us.

Uh both this contract and the last one, instead of keeping it sort of vague in terms of our health care plans, you put in every little line item.

And I was just wondering why we shifted to putting such detail instead of like we'll we'll offer an HMO and of this plan.

Um and I don't know if you can speak to that or if I have to ask Director Cummings, Karen Smith.

In the contract itself, uh that's how the contract has been over the years, and we didn't change it.

It's basically um uh for the different plans, the um HSA and the HMO.

Yeah, it's a lot more detailed.

Um I can give you a pot page number for example.

Page 15.

Uh, we used to have just basically any eligible member will have you know HMO or point of service, and we're replacing it with very specific details.

Point of service, specifically what your co-pay will be, what's your um it used to be like it has to have that minimum that you can see it line item in the contract.

So it's it may not even be a question for you because this is the second time we've seen it, but it's it goes very specifically into detail about what our deductibles are, and there does seem to be a clause in here that would you know help.

I'm just wondering like what if we need to change something.

What if the insurance company no longer has that plan?

This is so specific.

Um and we just we used to kind of keep it kind of vague.

Yes, I would have to have um director Cummings answer that.

But my assumption is that we're just trying to get all of the language in line with all the contracts within the city.

Um I believe that's the answer to this.

Yeah, there's a little opt-out clause, but I've it's I've seen it twice, so I'll ask Tim.

The opt-out clause is new.

Okay.

That that is new, but as far as the rest of it, I would say that they're probably getting it to be consistent within contracts.

Just on the record, it makes me uncomfortable.

It used to be a little bit more.

We're gonna offer some plans that have these things versus like putting in for four years that these are the exact pharmacy benefits.

We know that healthcare is changing all the time, and it's the number one pusher of our b budget.

So I was just surprised about the specificity.

And this is not your contract in general, it's just I've seen it twice now.

I'm like, hmm.

And that's why I'm leaning towards consistent consistency.

But maybe consistently not the best choice.

But again, I do want to check with Dick.

Yeah, I'll have them, I'll have them offline or memo us on that.

Uh, one other question that I had.

Um, so on uniforms, they went up from like six seven fifty to like almost eleven hundred.

Can you tell me what that's a chief?

Sure.

So do you know how much up here are these pants cost?

I don't.

Well, that was about two years ago.

Mine were 195 dollars.

So these are the men and women that are out in the street every day.

So they jump fences, they run, they slide.

Yeah, they wear their uniforms out more than anybody in the building, so they should actually get the highest in the building.

Um, and also 1100 doesn't go far because many of these officers are on specialty units.

So they have to buy gear for specialty units too.

So it really is probably underpriced.

Um, but we did bump them up because now they're on they're coming back since I've been chief.

This is their second contract back, so um for them to only get 1100 bucks is pretty good.

Um just to outfit them.

I I think a shirt was like one thirty-five, one fifty, so you can't wear the same uniform.

Well, you shouldn't wear it all week.

Um, two sets of uniforms, you're already at 600.

So you haven't bought a flashlight yet, boots.

And we do inspect the officers each day.

Uh-huh.

So when you come through roll call, you get inspected, your boots should be shined, your brass should be shined, your uniform has to be intact.

So the 1100 doesn't go far.

I figured that was the case, but I also was wondering if it was potentially pushed up by our decision to do body cams, if that was part of the push-up, or if it was just general cost of clothing is more.

Just the shirt.

This is almost 400 bucks, so it's a good looking uniform.

It's expensive.

It's designer.

Thank you.

Well said.

Yeah.

Oliver Johnson.

Thank you.

I'm gonna support this contract.

I read some of the language changes in here, and I was happy with some of the language changes.

Um I support App Police because without them.

And we have we'd have a lot of riots, I think, here in the city.

I mean, they're very important to us, you know, when things happen.

I work in retail, and there are times that I wonder if somebody's gonna come through that door, you know.

And we and we see a lot of the homeless population come in.

You know, and um, so I'm gonna support this.

Thank you.

Thank you for everything they you do for us.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, I mean, you guys know how I feel about the police department.

Um, I think we have the best in the definitely best in the state, probably best in the country, or at least as close as you can to it.

Um I'll support this.

I don't think they're to your point, I don't think they get they get paid enough.

I don't think uh so to be fair, I'm glad they were fair about it, made it easier for us.

Um, but uh I mean you gotta have a good police force in a city like this, and a city that continues to grow.

Um, and we want to keep I mean in my grandfather's day, nobody left the force, like you said, and now they get to their retiring age and they're gone, or and they go and get another job, and they still get their pension.

So um, you know, the more we can keep good officers here and uh to keep the citizens safe, I think that's important.

So um I'm I'm gonna support it fully.

So thank you.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

I'm not on the committee, but when it comes to the board, I will be supporting this.

Um I just wanted to make some comments.

Um I agree.

They're not paid enough, especially when we can we we were able to poach and now we're being poached.

Um, or not necessarily being poached, but um people are seeing grass greener on the other side.

think that's important so um i'm i'm gonna support it fully so thank you sir McLee uh thank you mr chairman i'm not on the committee but when it comes to the board i will be supporting this um i just wanted to make some comments um i agree they're not paid enough especially when we can we we were able to poach and now we're being poached um or not necessarily being poached but um um people are seeing brass greener on the other side um i think that not being paid enough is is true amongst our entire city of of employees and so on depending upon the different departments I also want to kind of do a little commercial for you for all the citizens that are are are listening here and wonder what our incredible police department does they have a wonderful citizens academy um and uh I know my husband went to it um not the city citizens academy but the PD one um it was quite impressive I've been lucky enough to have a ride along and thank you uh chief for that um and when you do the citizens academy you will see all the work all the departments and so on and you will see all these people that are putting their um on the line it's not just the officer directing traffic or you know some drug bust or something it's it's completely and um what happened at Sky Meadow is proof positive how well trained you all are um and I've heard nothing but incredible things about our fire and our police and our emergency management so I think the city is well run in part because of our our incredible police department so thank you thank you any other questions seeing none the motion before us is for recommended the full board final passage of R26017 all in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed motion carries thanks G thank you thanks Karen thank you for your support thank you business ordinances there is none table in committee there is none general discussion I want to mention that uh in talking with Donna we've had issues with some of the divisions meeting the dates in April as well as as uh some of the budget committee members that are gonna be gone during that week on vacation so at the current time we're looking at pushing the budget meetings we may have one the 16th of April but the rest of them will start in May and we will probably have to move the public hearing on the budget out a week so Donna is Donna working her magic with the Ouija board back there trying to schedule everything and uh we'll have more information as it comes any other comments all right public comment there's no one remarks by Alderman no I believe Alderman O'Brien oh actually Alderman Senate motion adjourned the motion on the floor is to adjourn all in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed motion carries we adjourned at 9 30 p.m