Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

It is 7 p.m.

on July 15th, Wednesday evening.

I'd like to call to order this committee on the special permits and licensing here in the New Bedford City Council Chamber.

Room 214.

I am joined by my colleagues in government this evening, members of this committee.

Councillor of Award 2, Scott Pemberton, Ward 1, Councillor Lear Choquette, and myself, Councillor at Large and Chairman of this committee, Ian Abrew.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Note.

This meeting is being live streamed and recorded.

City Council and committee meetings can be viewed on the City of New Bedford's homepage under quick links, then meetings.

This one's from Councillor Lopes.

I am writing to inform you that I will be unable to attend tonight's committee meeting due to previously scheduled work commitment.

Please read this letter into the record to make my colleagues and the public aware of the reason for my audience.

Motion received and place on file both letters is appropriate.

Well, someone needs to make the motion.

Made by Councillor Choquette.

Seconded by Councillor Pemberton.

Anyone on the question?

All those in favor say aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

The chair would like to acknowledge Councilor at large, Naomi Carney has joined us.

Thank you.

I'll ask the clerk to read item one, which is now properly before us.

Item number one is a communication.

City clerk, clerk of the city council submitting an application for a new private livery license on behalf of George Almeida doing business as all needs transportation.

32 Liberia Lane, New Bedford Mass, the term of the license, July 1, 2026 through June 30th, 2027.

It was referred here on May 28, 2026.

The number one is now before you.

Made it by Councillor Carney.

Second by Council.

Second by Councillor Choquette.

Anyone on the question?

All those in favor say aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

Now Mr.

Alameda, are you here?

Please take the podium, sir.

All right, Mr.

Almeda, good evening.

Tell us a little bit about your business, what you're looking to do, and then I'll open it up for questions.

Yeah, it's fine.

Tell us a little bit about yourself and the business.

And uh I I retired like seven years ago.

And I've been doing this kind of business for about a year now.

And I was thinking of doing it on my own now because I liked it so much.

So I would left to start my own business.

That's why I applied and see if you guys can approve it.

Thank you very much.

Colleagues' questions from Mr.

Almeida.

No questions?

Oh, should I recognize Councilor Carney on her first?

How are you?

It's nice to see you.

Carney, always a pleasure seeing you.

It's always a pleasure.

So um how many cars will you be having?

Two.

And will you be driving the cars?

Yes.

And you'll hire somebody else to drive the other car?

I'm gonna do it on my own.

I'm starting it very, very slow, very small.

And um will you be parking off the street?

Uh I shouldn't have a problem because I live in a cul-de-sac and I have a huge driveway.

So that I don't think that's gonna be a problem.

That's all the questions.

And good luck with you, sir.

Thank you, Carney.

Okay, great.

Is that it, Councilor Carney?

That's it.

Thank you.

Any questions?

Uh uh.

Okay.

I just uh one question from the chair if you'll allow.

Uh do you plan on uh conducting uh airport runs, sir?

Uh no, just medical like dialysis.

Just medical.

Any transportation for school or just medical no, no uh school uh just medical like dialysis.

Uh if you decide eventually you do want to delve into airport runs, just know if you're gonna do Logan, you have to be certified by a mass port, okay?

And the state police are all over that.

They'll they'll take pictures of your license plate, you'll get fined.

So that's something you want to do.

Green is no problem in Rhode Island, but Mass Port for Logan, just so you know, okay.

I won't I won't be doing that.

There's nothing.

Well, that's the money.

There's not much money in today.

I won't be doing that.

Yeah.

Okay, no problem.

Council Pemberton, you had a question?

No, no more.

Colleagues, any other questions?

All right.

What's your pleasure on this item?

Motion to um approve with a favorable recommendation to the full city council for approval, sorry.

For approval made by Councillor Carney.

Second.

Seconded by Councillor Choquett.

Anyone on the question?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

Okay, so Mr.

Alameda, you have been giving a positive recommendation from this committee.

It will go now to the full New Bedford City Council.

And that meeting will be on Thursday, August 20th.

That's the final vote for approval.

Okay.

It'll be at 7 p.m.

here in the chamber.

So if you would like to join us, you can join us that evening for the final vote.

But you did receive a positive vote from this committee tonight.

So next Thursday, will I get anything in the August 20th, my friend, is the meeting.

August 20th at 7 p.m.

Yes.

So we take a little bit of a summer recess, so we don't meet every two weeks.

We meet once a month in July and August for full counsel.

That's fine.

Thank you.

But you can call the city clerk once.

We vote to ordain this on the 20th, and the clerk's office will tell you when your paperwork is all set.

Okay.

Sounds good.

Thank you.

We'll give you all the instructions as you go along.

Don't worry.

We we've got you covered.

I appreciate it.

All right.

Thank you, Mr.

Media.

You're free to go if you'd like.

All right.

Item two is now before us.

Item number two is a communication, City Clerk, Clerk of the City Council to the City Council submitting a petition.

Anna Thomas, Fall River Mass, doing business as all things with Anna.

127 West Rodney French Boulevard, New Bedford Mass, requesting a waiver of residency in accordance with the section 15-38 of the city code to obtain a license to deal in junk, old metals, or any other secondhand articles.

It was referred to on June 11th, 2026.

Item number two is now before you.

I need a motion receive and place this on file.

Made by Councillor Choquette, seconded by Councillor Pemberton.

Anyone on the question?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed.

The ayes have it.

Okay.

Do we have Ms.

Thomas here?

Please take the pony a ma'am.

So tell us what are you looking to do at the Kilburn mill and tell us about the business and we'll open it up for questions.

Um I'm wishing to open a second hand store, thrift store.

I was previously at far a flea market that closed down.

And so I've been in New Bedford through my day job, which is working for the state across the street from Kilburn Miller for a while at the DTA.

And now I just wish to move into Kilburn Mill and open an actual store instead of working in the flea market.

Okay, great.

Colleagues, questions for Ms.

Thomas.

Chair recognizes Councillor Chocetton is first.

Good evening.

Thank you for coming in tonight.

So when you say second hand, is that like consignment type stuff?

Yeah.

So clothing?

Yeah.

Uh household goods, toys.

Just yeah, those type things.

All right, great.

Great.

Have you ever run a business before?

Is it first?

Okay.

I've had a hair salon, I've had a cleaning company, and um again, I worked at Far Far River flea market for the past year and some change until they close down to sell the building.

All right, awesome.

Well, best of luck.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

I yield.

All right.

Thank you, Counselor.

Anyone else for this applicant?

Pretty pretty cut and dry, right, folks?

All right.

I'll entertain a motion at this time.

Motion to approve.

Motion for referral to the city council for final approval.

For a positive recommendation made by Councillor Kearney, seconded by Councillor Choquette.

Anyone on the question?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

So Ms.

Thomas, similar to what I said, Mr.

to Mr.

Alameda.

You have now been given a positive recommendation from this committee.

It will now go to the full new Bedford City Council on our Thursday, August 20th meeting for a final vote of approval.

It will be a 7 p.m.

here again.

So if you'd like to join us, we'd love to see you.

Okay.

Thank you.

Have a great evening.

You're free to go.

And good luck to you.

Best of luck.

All right.

Item three is now before us.

Item number three is written motions, Councillors Abre and Oliver requesting that the City Council engage the appropriate city department heads to explore the feasibility of the permitting host community agreements, HCAs for on-site cannabis consumption establishments, commonly referred to as cannabis consumption lounges or social consumption establishments in accordance with the Massachusetts General Laws and Cannabis Control Commission regulations adopted in 2025.

And further, requesting the said departments report back to the City Council with findings, recommendations, and any necessary local actions required to lawfully implement such establishments within the City of New Bedford to be referred to the special committee on special permits and licensing, the health department director, Stephanie Sloan.

Police Chief Jason Thhody, Planning Department Director Jennifer Carlone, City Solicitor Eric Jake and the representative from the mayor's office.

The item was referred here on February 12th, 2026.

On March 19th, 2026, it was heard and then tabled.

Number three is before you and it remains on the table.

I need a motion to remove this item from the table.

Made it by Councillor Kearney.

Seconded by Counselor Pemberton.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed the ayes have it so the item is not properly back before us.

I did receive a note colleagues from Planner Carloni before this evening's meeting.

She was um not able to attend tonight but she really had no updates for us, she had said from a zoning standpoint from her colleagues and everything else that she's been dealing with with the state and networking and all of that to find out where things were at.

So she had no updates from her end and what others in her position were doing.

So that was her update she wanted me to pass along that there's really not much movement there from her perspective but we do have several other department heads and I know it's been a while since this committee heard it and it's always good to take these things off the table to dust them off and see where things are at and either we can leave these items on the table or we can just take action or refer them off on no further action.

So we'll see what happens.

Colleagues I mean I I is if anyone you want to hear from first if not I can call up the first individual tonight or I'll open it up to you all first.

You know no.

Well we have the police chief here, Chief Thody if you'd like to take the podium sir.

Good evening chief good to see you.

Good evening.

Good to see you as well.

I I know it's been a while as the clerk mentioned it was February when we had this first punt it over here.

Any updates from a law enforcement standpoint on what the state or some of your colleagues are doing as it relates to cannabis cafes starting to get online in the Commonwealth or how are other municipalities in your type of line of work t tackling this or are they not yet I guess is the question yeah I mean I think I think you know my I don't think there's anything's changed since the last time uh that I testified though the biggest problem is is recognition of impairment and that goes for operating a vehicle we don't have roadside tests that uh that would be a f really effective in in recognizing impairment to be able to enforce OUI.

Recognizing impairment as far as being overserved are is an issue that that's that's out there that you know other chiefs and and and we have discussed it's tough because some of it is like especially edibles or like late onset.

So over serving is a little bit more difficult to figure out than than alcohol.

So you know mostly it's it's road safety I think is the is the primary one just because we don't have an efficient way to to measure it.

You know but we've got you know I think it's too early to really tell what kind of a tax it's going to put on the police department as far as you know we're already short staffed and um and what uh establishments like this could bring as far as extra details or that that we may or may not be able to fill.

We know that predominantly cannabis is a cash business because it's still federally regulated that they don't have the same access to banking systems and credit card systems and things like that.

So they do become these locations have become you know in in doing a little bit more kind of reading they become targets for burglary robbery things like that just because it's a a lot of cash on hand.

You know all of those are just you know a matter of whether we can whether we have the staff to to cover those things or not.

Biggest concern is is operation and identification of being overserved and being you know under the influence either because you've been overserved at the establishment or because you're operating the motor vehicle I I know that us locally and if you'll allow from the chair when we in the ordinance committee are through council and we write a law or an ordinance with our legal counsel with the solicitor we don't write something andor pass something without law enforcement being at the table as it relates to enforcement right making sure that there is a mechanism that gives you the teeth and the leeway to do your job to enforce the law.

I just don't understand I'm asking you a question to which I know you don't know the answer but I I just don't know how Boston meaning Beacon Hill legislators can pass a law without law enforcement being at that table because to your point there's still no mechanism to test for high while driving like drunk while driving there's nothing so it kind of hamstrings you a little bit doesn't it?

Yeah I mean it's it's even beyond roadside.

I mean like I said and just kind of doing some you know stay trying to stay up on this and and keeping up with the research I mean even blood even blood tests for THC are not super reliable.

So I don't know.

I mean, I'm not an anti-cannabis chief.

I guess there are some out there, but like I'm not bad guy.

No, me neither.

I think that's the way.

But like to to make something legal without a mechanism to to kind of enforce the road safety piece.

I mean, we know how bad impaired driving, you know, that we lose a we lose a lot of lives and get a lot of injured people.

Um in fact, you know, one of my focuses for this year in in the budget is is driver safety and road safety.

I've doubled the size of the traffic division here in New Bedford because of that.

So this is kind of frustrating for us not to be able to enforce that.

So I don't have a good answer other than well, that's my libertarian side.

I am all for adults making adult decisions.

I know there are economic impacts, right?

Job creation, tax-based growth, but if there's no mechanism in place for you, I don't know.

Colleagues, any questions for the chief while he's up here so he's not back and forth.

Consul Shoket.

Thanks, Chief, for coming in.

Sure.

So um I heard you correctly, right?

You said there's no real reliable even blood test.

Yeah, even or at least at the level that we could actually use.

In detection of THC, again, it's it it enters the body differently than alcohol.

And um even the tests like the like a blood test is even less accurate as far as THC levels go.

I didn't know that.

Um that was through some, you know, some additional research.

Uh but you know, kind of if we're doing a blood test, it's kind of too little too late at that point.

A lot of times there's a there's a serious physical injury accident or a fatality where we're getting a warrant and getting somebody's blood to try to show impairment.

So that's kind of you know, that's kind of later.

Um, but even that i is not is not really accurate.

Um there are DRE courses, drug uh recognition expert courses.

Um they're in excess of a hundred hours for the officers.

Um I don't think they hold up in court as well uh because it's not an actual test like BAC.

Um it's a serious lift.

We don't have any in New Bedford.

Um so I mean there is something there, but um I'll be honest with you, like reading it and and kind of how it works.

Uh I don't think it's like blowing into a breathalyzer where you get a where you get a number and you say, okay, this is where we're at.

I I don't have any statistics about how many, you know, how many of these OUIs are related to cannabis versus versus alcohol um because I just I because I I don't think it's easily recognizable.

I think that's the problem, is that it's hard to get those numbers.

Um it's a concern.

All right.

Thank you.

I yield.

Thank you, Counselor.

Chair recognizes Councillor Pemberton.

Hi, Chief, how are you doing?

Good.

Um I know we say that we don't have nothing in place, like there's nothing of that we can tell.

But let's say like we have a regular routine that we that someone does get pulled over uh and they do the the other uh other influence but what other procedures that that are taken there that were I mean like how do they know like if there's no proceed, you know what I mean?

Like if there's nothing in place where to tell if there's anybody under fluids or bad water, but they get pulled over.

Well so that's just it.

There's nothing right now for somebody, you know, to to be able to to to like like nystagmus is present with alcohol, it's present with some opioids and some other drugs.

Um it's not true for cannabis.

So the enforcement of it is is extremely difficult.

Most of the t most of the instances of enforcement of OUI with cannabis that I've seen have happened like post-acident through um some kind of testing.

Uh it's interesting to see that the that the that the blood test is not as reliable as it as it should be, because I I imagine that that that'd be a reason to get away with it in court.

You know, it'd be something some that a defense attorney could poke holes in.

So I just think it's not um, you know, it's kind of the cart before the horse, right?

We just don't have the ability to to test those kind of things.

And I can't say why some communities have decided to, you know, kind of increase the the likelihood that folks are driving around the streets under the influence of cannabis when we don't have a good way uh to enforce it.

Uh and and even you know, you've got um, you know, the the uh the bar the bartender training for alcohol has been around a long time.

In in kind of reading, there's not a lot that's effective in that either for them uh to to find out when somebody's had enough to shut them off for lack of a better term at you know, at a facility with alcohol, it's much it gets into your system much quicker, it's much easier to identify intoxication and and being overserved where they might stop somebody, take their keys, right?

All those things that we know we do with alcohol, it's just not a thing with cannabis yet.

I I hope someday that technology comes out, and I hope I'm the one that develops it so that I can retire comfortably.

But it's just not the case right now.

Thank you, Counselor.

Anyone else for the chief while he's here?

We don't want him ping-ponging back and forth.

Counselor Carney.

I just want to make a comment.

I'm with you.

Um I think this cats before the horse.

I think this is way too soon.

I don't want to see any cannabis cafes in the city of New Bethton.

And yeah, but I I think it's a copy for the horse.

I think when they did the when they when they did the cannabis, the whole cannabis thing to begin with, they caught before the horse.

It was nothing there now for you to sit there in your house or in the park or with friends, whatever, and leave a house, there's no way to detect it.

So I'm with you, it's caught before the horse.

I'm not ready to see cannabis cafes in New Beth anytime soon.

Maybe I'll join you there in ten years.

Yeah.

And listen, if uh I'll get in on finding a way to detect partners.

Let me know.

All set, counselor, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else for the chief while he's here?

All right, my friend.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chief.

All right.

We have Stephanie Sloan and Eric Jakes.

Does it matter who we hear from next?

Any in particular?

Director Sloan.

Hi, Stephanie.

You have to adjust the mic after uh the chief is there.

Umdates for us?

Yes, actually I do.

Um so between uh now and the last time that we met, um the Massachusetts Health Officers Association had they invited the chief of staff from the uh CCC to speak to a bunch of public health professionals.

Um I attended that meeting.

Um he spent most of the time giving a presentation of the stuff that we already know, you know, the types of permits and all that sort of stuff.

Um but we did have an opportunity to ask him questions.

Um I asked a lot of them.

Um I'm shocked, I tell you.

Um one of the first ones I asked is um, you know, what does the timeline look like?

I know you know you at Express and some other counselors at Express, you know, we don't want to be so far behind other communities.

Um and so I asked, you know, what is the timeline gonna look like for when you anticipate, you know, all the training being ready and being able to actually um give out the first permit.

And I I sort of got a non-answer.

Um they're like, oh, if you have someone who's interested, let us know.

Um but that doesn't that's not that's not giving me an idea of when everything's actually going to be in place.

So um they did say that um like they have the host community agreements on their website for the marijuana distributors, they'll also have a list of um all of the communities that uh say opt in.

Um I also asked a lot of questions about compliance.

Um they said that each uh facility will be assigned, much like the current establishments, um each establishment will be assigned a compliance officer who will work with them through their permit process to make sure that they're in compliance.

Um they said that they would also respond to complaints.

So if complaints came up either that came to the health department or that the community had, they would have a portal that you could put complaints in.

Um but when I asked about I asked about routine compliance.

So with our uh tobacco compliance, we do routine inspections, we do complaint-driven inspections, and we also do our youth compliance inspections.

And so I said, you know, the state has a very successful model for tobacco.

Will there be routine inspections?

And he said no.

Um then I asked about youth and youth compliance inspections, and he said, well, that's a good idea.

Um so I didn't have a lot of confidence that they've sort of thought through all the pieces of the compliance piece yet.

Um he also said that it's an opportunity for communities to collaborate with the CCZ, which means to me it's gonna fall on us locally to do the compliance, particularly when it comes to uh events and hospitality.

Because for those types of permits, the event or the instance when a complaint happens is probably gonna be over by the time their compliance officer, but they get the information and they come down to New Bedford to check it out.

So I do have concerns, you know, aside from public health traditional public health concerns.

I do have concerns about um the compliance piece.

Um I feel like a lot of it's gonna fall on you know local public health police to sort of enforce.

Um I did also speak with one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

I did also speak with one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, of the uh health officials in the large cities coalition that I'm a part of.

And they are all in various stages, but a lot of them are sort of waiting and seeing.

Some haven't had any discussions about this, some have had discussions, but want to see you know what the C C E C comes out with for training and what they officially come out with for compliance.

So that is my update.

I knew you would come with your homework prepared.

I knew it.

I know you well done thank you.

Any questions for Director Sloan?

All right.

So we'll be in the holding pattern still like everyone else right now.

We'll kind of see where things are at, but thank you for the update.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Anything else for Stephanie before I sit her down.

All right.

Thank you.

All right.

Thanks.

All right Eric, you're up.

All right, solicitor, any any updates from the administration as it relates to even having a 30,000 foot view discussion about any type of ordinance or regulation or weed not even there yet.

We're not there yet and I'll be very brief in my comments.

I want to pick up on the compliance comments in the organization and operation of the CCC.

You'll remember that our original HCAs for retail establishments were promulgated three years ago and initially approved.

The CC is just now getting around to making changes and corrections to those HCAs.

Like the three like the three percent right we don't like the way this is worded I got one in today for one of our current retailers that they want to make a change and then I would remind you that I spent a significant amount of time peering before you with regard to social equity applicants and our social equity policy.

I would remind the council that that was submitted to the CCC in August of 2025.

I have not yet had a response as to when that will be reviewed or any comment on it.

So when Stephanie says she questions whether or not compliance checks are going to occur if they can't get their acting gear reviewing paper documents what makes us believe that they're going to come down to New Bedford on occasion for compliance.

Now isn't the CCC no longer constituted or constructed the way it once was it falls under the executive branch right?

It has been restructured as far as its oversight that the folks that are working there have not significantly changed yet nor has there been any significant increase in staff.

So things could change with time but right now I'm not convinced that it's even worth discussing this right now.

We certainly have the cart way ahead of the horse.

And that was the point of this motion I think I'll speak as one of the co-sponsors have that discussion because it's going to come up at least now when the wheels are put into motion at least we were already have had a little bit of a foundation so I'm glad that we're a little bit ahead of the curve at least having this sometimes even an uncomfortable conversation about it so we know where we stand and we know where we may or may not want to go.

Any questions for the solicitor while he's here Council Shouquette?

Thank you.

Good evening.

Good evening Council Shokett um I apologize Solicitor Jakes when you were talking about that CCC body is that a state level yes it's the can State Cannabis control commission.

Wow they're not known for their celerity are they a whole year and they haven't reviewed stuff?

That's correct.

Wow.

Okay.

Have you noticed that I mean do you have any idea how many people are on that I don't no I will tell you that they're picking up because now they're looking at some of these things but I'm just not convinced that there's going to be a lot of compliance down here in New Bedford aside from all of the other issues safety-wise that have been raised previously by the administration by Stephanie and by our police chief.

Well I suppose Massachusetts government tends to be Boston centric, right?

So unfortunately Okay well thank you Mr.

Well, thank you, Mr.

Drakes.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Anyone else for the solicitor jakes?

Colleagues, I think given what we've learned and what we heard from Planner Carlone, the police chief, Director Sloan, Solicitor Jakes.

I mean, there's no movement to be had on this right now.

The state is still, quite frankly, a mess when it relates to this.

And we'll take this back up in the future when we get more and receive more state guidance, if and when an ordinance is appropriate, we can have another motion, file it in the appropriate committee, have all these folks at that table, and we can craft something.

So I think with that being said, a motion to refer out to the full council for no further actions appropriate at this time.

Made it by Councillor Carney.

Second by Councillor Pemberton.

Anyone on the question?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Oppose the ayes have it.

Seeing there's no other business before us tonight.

Motion to adjourn.

Motion to adjourn.

Made by Councillor Carney, seconded by Councillor Pemberton.

Anyone on the question?

All those in favor say aye.

Opposed, the ayes have it.

We are adjourned at 7 31 p.m.

Have a great evening, everyone.