Comment we're gonna keep it at about three minutes.

Uh so when you hear the little buzzer go off, we can kindly wrap up as quick as possible if you're gonna go over the time.

Um and I'll try to make sure we get as many people in uh two comment tonight as we can.

I know uh obviously this is a great turnout for both of our uh workshops or meeting.

So all right, so I'll turn it over to our city solicitor, Chris Bean.

Thank you, uh Mr.

Chair.

So I thought I'd start off with um uh addressing the policy behind the insurance requirement for the rental moorings now, and that insurance requirement uh was enacted uh pursuant to ordinance uh I believe back in November of 2024.

Um the policy uh well the what it requires is a liability policy for the renewal of the rental mooring and places limits of uh one million dollars per occurrence and two million in the aggregate, and also just as importantly uh it requires the city to be an additional insured on that policy, and I'll get into a little later um uh why that's just as important as having that that insurance.

The um we believe this policy is sound.

Uh and in fact, uh we've listened to a lot of the input from the members of the rental community.

So I addressed it also with our insurance provider, the Rhode Island uh interlocal risk management uh group, the trust.

Um, and I discussed it actually with their legal counsel, uh their uh Andy Murray.

And uh he also believes it's sound, and in his own words, he thought it was a no-brainer.

Um and you know the trust deals with the the members of the trust are some 15, 16 communities, so they do this for public entities.

So they're very burst in the needs of a public uh entities, uh governments uh and their insurance requirements.

And he felt that any time you're you're allowing public facilities, in this case the harbor, actually the territorial waters of the state of Rhode Island to be used for a revenue generating um means, then these provisions need to be to be in there.

Um so although we're talking about rental moorings and whether the holder of the rental mooring owns one, two, or many more, they are commercial, they involve commercial activities.

Is that and given a permit for what goes on on those those moorings, the city should not have to in any way, shape, or form assume any risk or liability for that.

It should be all assumed by the permit holder.

And you'll see a little later, there's some subsequent users or managers of these moorings down the down the road.

So these are revenue producing, and unlike private moorings, private moorings.

We we know what's going on in uh private moorings.

There is a owner, it has to be an individual.

Um there's a boat registered to that.

They do have to provide liability insurance on the private moorings also.

Um, but we have uh a good idea who's using them and who's not, and you know what's going on with these private moorings.

With the rental moorings, it's a little different just by the nature.

And I'm not not suggesting that there's anything, you know, untoward or you know, that uh uh anything uh um uh wrong, but they just by their nature there is that transient use, the change in use.

Um we don't know at any given time what boat or who's gonna be using them.

In fact, we've over the years some of these rental mooring holders have actually um sublease these moorings to mooring companies who are using them and and um um generating income off of them.

uh anything uh um uh wrong but they just by their nature there is that transient use the change in use um we don't know at any given time what boat or who's gonna be using them in fact we've over the years some of these rental mooring holders have have actually um sublease these these moorings to mooring companies who are using them and and um generate an income off of them so the issue with the city as an additional insured is some of the questions we've heard is I only have one mooring why do I need to have insurance I don't use it I have my own boat on it these are all just in these are some of the things we've heard and we've we've tried to address some of these questions well well you do because you're the permit holder and you're the ultimate as a permit holder what you allowed on that on that uh on that mooring is going to come back to you and potentially also to the city because it issued the the mooring so you have that issue now we've been uh if some of these who rent out to a a mooring company why can't their insurance cover cover them well I I mean that mooring holder probably should be asking those mooring companies to make them a additional insured on their policies but because the city doesn't have a legal relationship with these down users these mooring companies um they cannot um uh put the city necessarily outright as an additional insured they would have to either they'd have to go and negotiate with their insurance company to do so or they would have to um we'd have to have an agreement with them between the city and that mooring company to provide us as an additional insurance so there is some it some of that can be worked out but there is some uh I don't want to say well obstacles it's just not as clean as some people might think so why do we want to be an additional insured is that even though there's insurance from a uh say the mooring holder has insurance and the mooring company that might be using has insurance if something tragic happens something a a substantial loss they're gonna be looking to find everyone who has a pocket who can provide some insurance um coverage so if the city gets uh brought in and they're not an additional insured they have to operate under their own insurance and they have to uh pay whatever costs associated with that um and people also have to understand that among defendants even in defendants you think defendants go oh this guy's suing us we all should have commonality of interest you don't all always sometimes the defendants can be as adversarial among themselves as they are with the plaintiff so we can have competing um claims between the defendants when the city is made an additional insured that goes all out the window that insurance company has to uh look upon the city the same as the insurance the the insured they're providing the insurance for they owe a duty of good faith and fair dealing on that so it's very important that's another very important aspect of this is for the city to be an additional insured um so there is um at this uh stage I probably would ask uh Steve Land um I think he can give you an update uh on there has been uh and you guys have heard it at the last uh meetings um that there is some uh some uh mooring holders who are um finding it difficult to get the insurance or say that it's it's um too expensive but the only thing I would say on that although you know I certainly haven't looked I don't have a rental mooring so I don't want to you know um say that that's uh the right or wrong I think Steve Land has more information on that but I would say this you have to look you have to look at a insurance company that provides this insurance your traditional homeowners your traditional car insurance provider is not gonna provide this type of insurance it would be a specialty insurance same thing with some of us in professions uh where where we have special insurance company that provide professional liability insurance so there are marine insurance um providers out there that would probably you could probably look at but uh um steve could you master Steve Land um so we have had a lot of success with people finding insurance and um they started with their original homeowners or car insurance and they weren't getting they're getting very high quotes um yesterday I someone emailed me with a um it was just an estimate it was hard to read the estimate but it was for two hundred and thirty six dollars for the year which I find is is pretty pretty reasonable the same insurance company has given a lot

Um so we have had a lot of success with people finding insurance.

And um they started with their original homeowners or car insurance and they weren't getting they're getting very high quotes.

Um yesterday, I someone emailed me with a um, it was just an estimate, it was hard to read the estimate, but it was for 236 dollars for the year, which I find is is pretty pretty reasonable.

The same insurance company has given a lot for 400.

I've seen some for six.

So people have been very successful in finding insurance.

Um I was under the impression I wasn't supposed to give out insurance company names.

I've talked to the city solicitor, and uh if if anyone does have a question, I'd be more than happy to share insurance uh company names that people with people that we've we've accepted and people have had success with.

Uh, you know, this should be an easy, not stressful thing.

Um I think a lot of times when they're calling insurance companies, they have a single mooring, they they're they're lending it or having it subleased, so they really don't know the details of it.

They're having a hard time describing the business to the insurance company, which I completely understand.

Um, but we have had a lot of success with this.

Um if people are looking for insurance, the deadline that for mooring applications is November 15th.

They still have a month.

But if people are in contact with us and they're working on it, we absolutely you know postpone that deadline.

What that what that November 15th deadline is for people we haven't had any contact with, they haven't reached out to us.

We've sent emails saying it's it's done, and uh then we send out a letter on that date that's saying that they forfeited their mooring.

But we don't do that with people.

There's a lot of reasons why we postpone that.

Uh some they're doing their service, their service con their service uh inspection, some they're getting a new boat, there's waiting to get the uh registration.

There's a lot of different reasons we postpone that is that's just working with the general public.

So if people are actively looking and they need a little more time, that is not a problem at all.

Um so right now they have a month, and that people have definitely found insurance.

Um if uh they they come to me and I give them a couple names and they still have troubles, we'll we'll dig a little deeper.

Mr.

Chairman, yeah, Council Curl.

Thank you, Mr.

Bean and Mr.

Land.

Presumably, this is a question for both the solicitor and the hubbermaster.

Presumably, what the city of Newport is looking for is protection from any type of tragedy that might take place either for a person or an individual or individuals or for property on the water, correct?

Correct.

Is that correct, Mr.

Bean?

Uh yes.

You want to indemnify the city from occurrences on the water.

We we also want them, yes.

We want them with the with the uh additional insured to their insurance companies to defend us and indemnify us.

Yes.

Could you be so kind, Mr.

Landis, to tell me how you expect these insurance companies that you have the names of based on 200 and something dollar policies to pay for any of the aforementioned that might occur.

My understanding is that general liability business insurance will protect for certain things, not tragedies or incidents with respect to property that occur on the water.

Correct me if I am wrong.

No, you you you would the liability insurance that they're looking for would provide that insurance for boats.

Just like private private mooring holders have uh, I think they call it Steve Hull insurance.

So if that boat uh is off the mooring, comes off the mooring and causes damage, then yes, it covers that.

So I think I think that is that's exactly what I'm talking about when I say trying to go to a traditional liability insurance provider that provides homeowners uh uh or or that is not the way to go.

You would have to go to a marine type of uh insurance company.

Which is why I directed the question both to the solicitor and the harbormaster because your explanation is understandable, but the harbormaster said he specifically has names of insurance companies, and he referenced uh quotes of in the 200 range.

Uh I find it very hard to believe that the insurance companies with quotes in the 200 range will indemnify the city of Newport for tragedies that take place either the personal property or to individuals on the water.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Sure.

The quote that I got that was in this, I it was just a quote, so I didn't actually read the policy.

Uh the policies we have gotten uh do idemnify the city.

And um they are legit insurance companies.

Um, you know, there's this is a something that they can get.

Uh different companies that work on the water are going to be insured for different amounts.

We've got some that are that do other businesses and they just attack that on to their policy.

I've talked to other people, it's been even even cheaper.

Uh they they run other businesses that are on the water, so they tack that on.

I think the the trouble, and where I think a lot of the people are having, you know, who who aren't really operating this business, um, the challenge is kind of where to start on this.

And you know, we said you have to have insurance.

They've they haven't thought about this.

It's not at the average insurance you need to get.

They've had this business and it's been operated by a sub-leaser.

So I think that's where I think a lot of the people who are having troubles are.

And they can they can try us.

We can when when I get the quote in from this insurance company, maybe they have to add a little bit more.

It's gonna be a little more expensive.

I'm not so thankful.

Thank you for that answer.

Uh, I have two follow-ups.

When you provide anybody who asks for the name of this insurance company who will provide coverage in the 200 plus range, does the city have any objection to writing up some type of document which says we in fact accept this outside of just saying your commercial permit will be uh repermitted by the November deadline.

The city, in fact, accepts this and we realize uh that we are accepting this insurance policy with the knowledge that if something happens and we are sued, we have previously said we accept this insurance policy, we think this is the right type of insurance, we've passed judgment on us on it.

And here's the testimonial as such the contract between the city and the mooring holder, or something in writing which is notarized, anything in writing from the city saying this 200 plus dollar insurance policy for the purpose of doing what you all want to do as a city here is fine with us.

Because I think when something we hope does not happen happens, that insurance policy is gonna be borderline useless with respect to what happens on the harbor, and the very nature of what we're trying to do will have been an exercise in futility.

Let me, if I could jump in.

Um I you know, I I think you're correct in some way, uh, Counselor Collin, when you discuss um a quote like that seems low.

Are we getting the correct insurance?

I think that's a good good follow-up, good questions.

However, I I I think Steve, what he received was a quote.

All it was was a quote for insurance.

What we rely on, what we look at is a certificate of insurance, a COI, which tells us the type of insurance, the limits, and so forth.

I would imagine he's also mentioned that he's seen all kinds of prices for this.

There are some people who paying $600 or a little bit more.

So yes, we would look at it.

It would have to have those those um those limits, and if it was some insurance company that uh we've never heard of, or uh we would certainly check to see what type of rating they had.

And then Steve, I think some when Steve said he didn't read the policy.

Well, he didn't have a policy.

I just got a quote with a price on it.

I didn't have the policy in front of me.

We the policies we've gotten have been from legitimate insurance companies that we've seen in the years past.

Thank you for the answers.

Uh follow-up question, and this will be it for now, Mr.

Chairman.

I appreciate your indulgence.

Uh with regard to the city's insurer, which all thirty-nine cities and towns, I believe, possible exception Providence, uh, have contracts with the Rhode Island Intralocal Trust is the insurer for the city.

Has the interlocal trust suggested that they will be uh discussing this no-brainer regarding getting this insurance with, for example, East Greenwich, Barrington, other uh harbor front communities.

I doubt they have the need to do it in Central Falls or one socket, but uh why is it all of a sudden that we're hearing about the intra-local trust's strong desire for this insurance policy, but nothing has been brought to our attention with regard to any other communities uh having the same requirement?

I asked the interlocal trust to review our ordinance.

They did not initiate the contact.

I initiated it with their general counsel.

I told them this is our insurance.

I gave them some background information.

I suggested we're dealing with mooring holders that might only have one mooring.

They might have two.

Um contact with the actual doings on the moorings uh and so forth.

And they, under the general premise, I think they would agree when you rent out and we do it in other situations when on the land side, when we rent out our facilities, we have these insurance provisions.

The city is uh required to be additional insured.

His general consensus was this isn't this is what municipalities should be doing.

He wasn't necessarily specific to the to the harbor, but that's that's where they're at.

They did not initiate the call.

I asked for their assistance.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you, Mr.

B and Mr.

Land.

Uh any other council?

Yeah.

Um, so what is the city actually want?

Um, what's the expectation from the city?

What does the city want the policy to cover, just so that everybody can be clear as to what they're looking for?

It would it would be a general liability, uh insuring a watercraft that uh the activities on the activities of the permit holder, you know, insuring well, actually, not a watercraft, that'd be more of the private, it would be the activities on that mooring.

So the permit holder would have to tell their insurance company this is what's happening on the water.

This is what's happening with this with this mooring permit.

It's a general liability, so it's to cover uh a uh the activities that would be flow from that, the risk that would flow from that.

The insurance company would then do their due diligence, look at what is happening along with their insured, and then um tell them what they would cover and provide a quote at that point.

So that's what we would be looking for with those limits, and those are general a million, two million is general um is a general liability for business operations.

Now the other thing is that the risk is um you know, some of the businesses the insurance companies deal with are year-round.

And uh these moorings are probably maybe that's another reason why you know there's there might not be as great a risk uh with some of this as with some other operations.

So do other businesses in Newport um need to have this indemnity clause, restaurants and bars, or is this just specific to to the harbor?

The the um a restaurant, well, they're all dealing with private property though.

Okay, that's the difference, but I can tell you for a liquor license, the state requires uh insurance, viability insurance uh for the liquor licenses.

It's not cheap.

Mr.

Chair.

Are you done stuff to do?

Yeah, we oh I'm sorry, the sidewalk in the clerk just pointed out like for our sidewalk and street cafes, we have these requirements.

Um we have the requirements when you know maybe the boat show is using Easton's uh uh beach parking lot.

We usually have an indemnification clause and also the insurance requirement.

Tomorrow night, the workshop you're gonna see um in a lease for the uh uh Newport Yacht Club uh insurance provisions requiring you know the indemnification and also uh insurance.

Yep.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um I have two just two questions.

First, um just kind of wondering about like the equitable approach to this.

So are we requiring people who have had zero issues um with their moorings to hold the same insurance as those that may have had some issues?

uh insurance provisions requiring you know the indemnification and also uh insurance yep also go ahead thank you um i have two just two questions first um just kind of wondering about like the equitable approach to this so are we requiring people who have had zero issues um with their moorings to hold the same insurance as those that may have had some issues we are right now yes okay and then my other question is just around community engagement I'm just curious um how like the voices the concerns or whatever of our residents our mooring holders and all of that was incorporated into this like was there any outreach was there any round table discussions or anything prior to this workshop we we did three discussions at the waterfront um and then we did the council um the two readings at the council and we are fielding questions through that but uh as a workshop no this is the first workshop on okay thank you thank you Mr.

Chair thank you Mr.

Chair Councilman a couple more questions um does does the city have or did they need CRMC's approval for for this insurance you've I don't believe they do this is in the operations and safety aspect of it it's not in the policy uh we you know we talked about another next discussion we talked about the um the definition that I defined with Yakla moorings that's a very different aspect of this um I have talked about with CRMC and they just kind of said this is an operational we are issuing the permits we're taking all the liability okay and and does the city rent moorings to to the general public is we do and that's that's kind of I'm glad you asked that those the city knows what boats we put on those we have regulations that we follow the city is very very careful and we we maintain we're out there every day making sure that our mooring gear is straight that it's in location uh we have eyes on it and we physically do it ourselves a lot of these single moorings they they they don't go out and see what's what's going on they're not in contact with their with their uh tenants and so it's a very different operation but yes and we are insured okay okay thank you any further questions from the council ballton um the moorings currently that are rentals um by some of the yacht clubs yes or uh yeah how do they I mean I understand somebody who owns a boat and wants to get insurance or feels they have to get insurance but what happens when say they no longer use their boat but they make some sort of arrangement with somebody that will you know uh manage the boat get people on it and stuff who checks out the insurance I'm not 100% sure I understand the question but I think you're talking if they if they have a commercial mooring right now if they have a mooring right now suppose they have a mooring from the city of Newport now or even two moorings okay okay and they say well you know I don't with I don't have the friends that came in yet that used to come in I want to keep the second mooring they well if they're they if that's a private mooring they can only have one and a private mooring has to have a boat register registered to it to keep that mooring it's a very different activity difference between private moorings and and rental moorings we call them rental they're commercial but that we call them rental um are very very different private mooring you you wait on a list um you it goes issued to your name the boat that's registered or documented to it must have your name on it if you're done using that boat you come to that point in your life and you're on a scheme and you sell that boat you have to forfeit that mooring you can't just hold on to it you need it we have a uh a 24 hour use that you have to boat register to you has to be on that mooring for 24 hours we we the city goes out and physically touches it puts a little sticker on the back of it so that that scenario won't won't won't or can't happen if they have two commercial moorings right now we're we're working on the insurance that we you know we instituted an insurance policy a year ago we're we're discussing it now so they have they still even if they they're not supposed to have boats on the moorings their own personal boats on the rental moorings that has happened we're gonna we're gonna talk about that with the ordinance changes we're gonna figure out a way that we can make those people have private moorings but so we are checking the insurance now that they have to turn the insurance in those moorings are for rent they can do whatever they want they don't have to charge their friends but uh they do have to have insurance on the activity on that mooring is that that answer question the question's a little I can't quite get a handle on the question that that scenario doesn't really come up.

So they they own that.

So the permit holder has they can they have we give them the ability to run that mooring.

They can put too big a boat on that mooring.

They can put two boats on that mooring in weather conditions that aren't suitable for that.

The action of the permit holder is what we're insuring.

Not the if if someone comes in and doesn't tie their boat up very well, that's the boat's captain's fault.

If the mooring chain is bricks because it wasn't serviced correctly, that's the service provider's fault.

The permit holder has the ability and should be managing that mooring actively.

And if if they put too big a boat on, or if it's the wrong weather conditions, that's the mooring service, or that's the mooring permit holder's responsibility or exposure.

If there is, if the mooring drags and the mooring service says, hey, it's drags, we gotta get this this boat off, and they they fail to do that.

Again, that is the permit holder's responsibility and exposure.

So there is just by being a permit holder, you have responsibilities and exposure that the city should not take on.

We are not in charge of who of those private rental moorings, who puts on.

We are the city's only in charge of the ones that we run.

Aren't all of the moorings in the city in the city's name?

Correct.

They're they are permitted by the city, correct.

So if the boat owner doesn't have insurance and something happens, who's responsible?

That's a good question.

Is the is you know it depends on what what the scenario is.

So Steve, you know, brought up certain scenarios, and um if you have a mooring holder, permit holder who did not have insurance, and something happened, then certainly, you know, depending on the degree of of what happened, and depending on the degree of what insurance is in place, they're going to look for deep pockets that you know, if someone has substantial damage damages, then there's not enough insurance out there, they're going to look for deep pockets, and it's gonna go down the line.

It's gonna go to the permit holder because they're the ones conducting the activity on it.

And then they could bring in the city, which issued the permit, and they could easily say that we were not properly supervising the permit holder, or you know, we allow that type of activity in our armor.

So I mean, that's that's the that's why there's insurance out there.

Not there is it isn't always because there are these incidents out there.

I mean, I I would say the boating communic community is very good and you know, attentive and and that, but it's the issue of what happens.

It's the same with your house, you insure your house.

You might not have a fire for you know ever in your lifetime, but if it does happen, you know, this is what we're insuring against.

We're we're we're trying to put that risk, you know, to to put the rest risk where it should be and so we don't have to deal with it.

Mr.

Chair.

My understanding from back in 2024 until now and through this um workshop is that we're not talking about boat insurance.

We're talking about mooring insurance, right?

Business insurance.

Business insurance, right?

So yeah, I'm sorry that that wasn't clear.

Yeah, we're talking about business insurance.

Um, it's not has nothing to do with boat insurance, but very different.

Council comes over on.

All right, so a couple questions here.

First, let's start on the business of this, just because it's probably helpful uh to understand what we're talking about here.

So take a 40-foot mooring for the purposes of the example.

What would you say the market rate is for a 40-foot mooring in the harbor right now?

I would say right now it's uh about 140 a foot.

Yeah, 140 a foot.

It's pretty market rate.

It can fluctuate a lot depending on where you are and what what boat it is, but I think that's a pretty fair.

And so you're looking at a mooring fee that's gonna be in excess of uh $5,000 for that mooring, right?

Correct.

Um, what is the actual cost to a typical owner of operating that?

What's the cost for a permit?

What's the cost do you think for tackle?

You know, that's the chain that connects to the ball in there, and what's the cost of a servicer that's a company who's gonna take care of collecting the rent on that, et cetera.

That's that's a great question.

It should be in the you know $700 range, maybe a little bit more.

I don't have the number off my head.

Um to service that every year, different mooring service providers charge a different amount.

Um, but I think it's probably I would say $300 is what we'd be for commissioning and decommissioning, right range a little bit.

Um the chain and replacement of parts is um uh is something that they have to do.

Uh a new kit all around for about five that for a 500-pound mooring, I would say estimate around $5,000, but that can last quite a while, and you just replace parts of it.

You replace the top part of the chain, which is a smaller bottom part of the chain or the shackles that hold it together.

Um some chain lasts quite a while, some has to be changed in three years.

Um, you know, there is definitely room to be made there.

So if you're $700 for a permit and they're $300, it's a thousand dollars a year on just maintaining it.

Um then you when you have to replace parts when they come up.

So there is definitely money involved.

So it's I think safe to say the typical mooring holder is is yielding more than their money back what they're renting it at, but these aren't huge margins for the individual person.

No, um the individual person does not manage the moorings like the city does.

When the city's tenant goes away, we put someone on that mooring instantly.

So that five that for that 500 pound mooring is not making five thousand dollars a year, it's making eight or nine thousand dollars a year.

We are very actively renting the city's moorings, the pennants don't go wet, kind of joke.

Um, and it's it's one of those things that the the more you run your business, the more money you are going to make.

And so if someone chooses to put a a seasonal on it, and when that seasonal takes off for the weekend, they don't manage it, then that's their business.

They they choose not to do it.

The mooring sits empty.

So I'm I'm one of those seasonals, and the entire reason I've been able to be out on the water uh when I'm not sitting on the dais, uh, is that I'm able to rent a commercial mooring each season uh because I I think that um I'll be near qualifying for a pension by the time I get onto a private mooring.

Um I'm very thankful, and I think that a lot of these folks have been good stewards to the harbor.

Um, but uh one of the things I also know from my time on the water is that things go wrong and they go wrong a lot.

Uh sometimes by your own fault and error, sometimes by nature, sometimes just because it's complicated out there, right?

Um and so for me, the concept of operating a boat without insurance is uh I think to my colleagues' points really difficult to imagine, right?

Are there actually people who are operating these, you know, $100,000 sometimes million dollar assets on the water without insurance uh at all?

And I realize that what we're talking about here is it's a series of insured parties.

You've got the boat owner, you have the mooring tackle servicer, you have the company that actually you know manages renting out that mooring if you uh have someone take that on, and then there's us all the way at the bottom, the actual permit holder.

Um and somebody suing in and you know is gonna try and sue everybody, and then the different insurance companies are gonna try and sue each other to subrogate to make sure they don't have to get stuck with the bill.

But all that being said, kind of your first line of defense is that boat operators' insurance policy.

You're out there every single day.

Do you actually see boats out there operating without insurance where it's problematic?

The you know, you're you mentioned $100,000 to a million dollar boats.

No, those people they need insurance, they want insurance.

The yards won't call them.

But we see smaller vessels all the time without insurance.

Um, you know, they're they they can't afford it and they choose not to run it.

You know, a lot of the same same boats that don't have insurance are registered, and you can see them as they come in.

So there definitely are boats that are not insured operating in our harbor.

Have you had any recent incidents with any of those uninsured boats where it's actually proven to be the type of liability where you know had you not intervened or have we not caught it quickly enough, it could have been a very costly situation, both in terms of human life but also financial cost?

Um not this summer, but we've absolutely found you know, vessels that are that are uninsured that cause problems that rely on the city.

We have to either throw them away or deal with them, or uh they they cause damage to another boat, and that person just knows that can't get blood from a stone and they just move on.

They have their own insurance company deal with whatever damage.

So it does definitely happen.

Um we have a large mixed population in Rhode Island, and everyone's allowed to use the water.

We encourage it.

Some of those people choose not to have insurance.

Thank you.

Well, it's take time to turn it over to uh public thank you, Harbor Master.

Mr.

Chairman, can I ask uh one more follow-up question, please?

Uh actually two.

Can you define uh Harbor Masterland what you consider sub-leasing of moorings to be?

Yes.

So um we've uh population of permit holders who do not manage their mooring.

They turn that over to another company to manage it.

They don't know who's on the mooring.

Um they aren't actively you know in contact with the tenant.

They have another company run that mooring for them, and they just get cut a flat fee for the year.

And you are in opposition to such an arrangement, correct?

Um yes, for a safety reason.

Uh it's one more level that we cannot get in touch with the owner of that vessel.

So when there's something wrong with that vessel or or the mooring or the situation that we need to move that, um, we call the permit holder, and they have no idea who's on that mooring and how to get in touch with them.

So would you like we don't know who the we don't have a relationship with the sub-leases?

We don't know who they are.

Would you like the city to enact?

First of all, is there an ordinance prohibiting such?

There is not.

Would you like the city council to enact an ordinance prohibiting such?

I think it's definitely something we should discuss.

Thank you.

And then the difference between residential and commercial moorings as it relates to insurance and the apparent lack uh of an ordinance requiring residential mooring holders uh to possess insurance.

The city ultimately owns these moorings, both commercial and residential.

Uh we allow permit holders to use them, but they are the city's property.

Why are we not requiring residential permit holders to have the same type of insurance that we are requiring commercial permit holders to have?

We do.

Um it's not exactly the same type of insurance.

We know what vessels on the so they get uh hull liability insurance.

Um they are we know the vessels on it, it's it's registered to the person, the permit holder, the private permit holder, and the vessels registered the private permit holder.

They do have whole insurance, so if the if if that mooring, they they can't they can't make a mistake on that because that boat is on that mooring.

Um and they are liable for that boat.

Does that answer your question?

No.

Uh you're asking for commercial mooring holders to obtain insurance policies so that the city has the deep pocket or the perceived deep pocket holder uh will be in indemnified, will not uh run the risk of liability.

It appears, despite your answer, that we are not doing the same with respect to residential mooring holders, permit owners, permit holders, despite the fact that the underlying owner, as I said moments ago, is still the city.

There, I see a different classification and a different uh treatment between the two permit holders, but I see the same owner, the city of Newport in both cases.

I just jump in.

We do by ordinance require liability insurance for the private, uh, but there's a whole different nature of risk with the with the uh the private.

I mean, you you're dealing with the same same user the whole season and and and so there's completely different risk um issue there.

Appreciate the answers.

Uh final question.

Residential permit holders.

Residential mooring permit holders.

Are they required to prove to the city each year as the commercial holders will that they have insurance policies and the failure to do so will be the revocation of their permit?

Yes.

It's uh the term is private uh mooring holders.

There's residential and non-resident.

We've, you know, but yes, they have to turn in their insurance with their application.

Uh every year that everyone has to apply.

Um every the permit um is revoked October 31st.

They have to put an application in, and it's then accepted, and they get another application for or they get they get another permit for the following year.

So they are required the private mooring holders are required insurance, registration, and an active mooring inspection report.

Uh the commercial or or rentals are going to be insurance this year and an active um inspection report.

Only two things.

They don't they we're not they don't turn in the boat name that they're going to be renting to or any of that stuff since some of them do multiple boats.

Thank you both.

Thank you, Harbor Master.

Uh all right, uh turn over to the public now.

Uh if you'd like to come up, uh I ask you just to raise your raise your hand and I'll call you up.

Start with you, ma'am.

Just uh when you do come up, you give your name and address, please.

I'm uh Charlotte Johnson.

I live at 15 Park Street in Newport.

And I guess I Steve was talking about my email to him, where I found someone who would insure my business for 239 dollars.

I specifically asked the insurance company for what the city was asking me to provide, which was business liability insurance.

Steve at the waterfront commission meeting a couple of weeks ago asked me how I declare my income from my mooring.

And well, start I have a commercial mooring, it's 500 pounds, and I have old Port Marine manage the mooring.

When I file for my permit, I pay the 800 and some dollars, and I indicate that old Port Marine is managing my mooring.

My contract with Oldport for the last 48 years has been for them to put a seasonal boat on the mooring to give me uh a per they take a percentage for commission and they bill me for any repairs and inspections that they have to do.

So I'm still you know paying the expenses and everything, but they have the insurance.

Okay.

I also have apartments, and I rent rooms, and on my schedule E, I have 15 Park Street, 16 Clinton Avenue, and my harbor mooring.

It's scheduled E, you know, whatever they call it, you know, income.

It's that doesn't say I'm a business.

I'm Charlotte Johnson.

So I went to the insurance company, I said, This is my business.

I've got apartments, I've got a mooring, I've got all this kind of stuff.

Now, Allstate insures my house.

Oldport insures my mooring.

All I'm looking for is the business liability, which is property damage and bodily injury.

And they said, okay, 239 dollars, because you've got a obviously, where do you work from?

I said, My home.

And they gave me a 239 dollar price for a million dollar policy that would an aggregate of $2 million, and I could throw in the city of Newport as co-insured.

So that's where that number came from and how it was arrived at.

And that's business liability insurance.

And I explained it fully to the insurance guy that they're not insuring the mooring, they're insuring my business that my moorings already insured by Old Port Marine.

Thank you, Mr.

Johnson.

So that explains the situation.

Mr.

Chairman, Council Carl.

To the city uh solicitor and harbormaster, what Ms.

Johnson just described is not the expectation that the city has regarding insurance mandates, correct?

Well, whether Old Port Marine insurers, whatever they insure, it's definitely not what the city wants there because we're not an additional insurer on that.

So we would have to take a look at when she delivers that um certificate of insurance and see what is being provided.

So I mean, the expectation is that you're telling them what's gonna happen on that mooring with the permit.

That's all I can tell you.

So when it comes in, if there isn't uh if they if the it looks like there's any kind of exclusions based on the fact because old fort old port marine or whoever the the mooring service provider might be.

Um if there's any um uh you know exclusion based on the insurance that if it's secondary and not primary, we wouldn't accept it.

Anyone else in the back.

Good evening, Jack Grant, 26 Fort Avenue.

Um, just a couple of comments.

First is I have a rental mooring, commercial mooring.

Um I rent it to seasonal boats only.

So there's one boat put on there at the beginning of the season.

That's the only boat all season long that's on it.

I have a contract or an agreement with them.

Here's what has to happen on that mooring.

If there's a storm, it has to be removed, etc.

etc.

Um that is different.

There are transient people coming and going and going on a on a rental mooring, but there is no differentiation in the ordinance as to what the insurance requirement should be or should not be if it's a seasonal rental versus a transient.

And that was one of the um points that was made by the city solicitor saying in the harbormaster is there's a difference.

We don't know who these boats are on the rental moorings.

They come and go.

We don't know what kind of insurance they have.

Well, the seasonal boats or the seasonal rentals are required to have liability insurance, just like the private moorings.

That's a that's part of the city ordinance, and they're those, you know, we could easily make them available, and I think we probably do when we file for our um for our permit.

So from my perspective, is if the concern is with transient, we don't know who they are, these moorings aren't being managed, people come and go, etc.

etc.

Well, that's different than if it's a seasonal.

We manage them, that's the only boat that's on it.

They're required to have insurance.

They sign an agreement with me as to how what can and what cannot happen, they cannot sublease that mooring type of thing.

So I think what you want to do is look at the ordinance, and based on the way it was explained the concern with the rental moorings that they were transients, you have to give consideration to when they're seasonal.

It's an entirely different rental agreement.

The second point I would like to make is there's a proposed amendment relative to having yacht club moorings, and in that definition in the proposed amendment, it talks about the yacht clubs can rent these.

It doesn't say they can rent them as transient, it doesn't say they can rent them as seasonal.

It also doesn't say that they have to have any level of insurance.

It doesn't say they have to have the city as additional insured.

And I don't see the difference between you can change the classification because you're worried about the percentages that we've heard over the last couple of meetings.

But a rental is a rental, and if these are transients, then they ought to be treated as all other transients are in the harbor.

If they're going to be seasonal, then I think then that's a different situation.

But I think you should look at that portion of the proposed ordinance as you go forward.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you very much.

Yeah, sorry.

Yeah, jump in on that last issue that Jack brought up.

Um he is correct on the um uh on those uh those rentals uh that we for the yacht clubs.

We are actually we're gonna once that's back before the council, we're gonna propose language that says they have to comply with the rental uh mooring requirements for insurance.

So just in case others, I just brought it up because if others bring up the same point, we acknowledge that point, and that's going to be corrected.

So to be clear, it's all seasonal and transient will be the same.

No, I no, that I don't agree.

Okay, I'm not sure.

That part I don't agree with.

I agree with uh Jack about the the yacht club um needing the same type of insurance because they're they uh the the way they're renting it also um or allowing others to use it, that they're gonna have to provide the same insurance that rental uh um rental mooring holders under the existing ordinance.

Why don't you agree with uh what Jack said about uh seasonal versus transient?

I don't because people can change the way they're operating on these rental moorings at any time.

They're not beholden.

There's nothing that says that they're seasonal, you know, that they're only doing it seasonal.

I mean, they they can change.

We don't when it comes to these moorings, that they could they could easily turn it into a transient, they could change it into a different um um uh whole operation.

So and then carving out all these exceptions is is gonna be uh I don't think that's good policy.

Thank you.

Mr.

Chairman, oh for Mr.

Bean uh or for Steve Under current ordinances since we're dealing with both the insurance and the ordinance proposed amendments to change one time from commercial to residential.

My question is on paper.

At least as the ordinance reads, commercial permit holders are not permitted to dock their own boats on the mooring, their private boats on the mooring.

Is that correct?

And do we enforce that if that is the rule?

Great point.

It is not written in the ordinances.

If they have a three million dollar boat, another fifty thousand dollars to get a mooring is nothing to them.

So there is a there is some uh mooring holders out there that would like to obey the law and and change to a private mooring.

But no, there's nothing on the the ordinances right now saying that a commercial mooring must be rented out to the general public.

Thank you.

You had answered the question earlier when I asked if you would like to prohibit subleasing, you said yes.

Would you like to prohibit the example that I just mentioned?

Um that would definitely be something to to look at.

The change of ordinance will and should take care of that.

The one that is uh gonna have it's gonna be a second reading in a in a month um that will allow people to change from rental to private.

That's fine, but suppose you do not own a commercial mooring yet, and you are that four million dollar boat owner, uh, and you decide there is an open commercial mooring on the market, I will purchase that and dock my four million dollar yacht on that commercial mooring.

Even I repeat the question.

You want an ordinance prohibiting that.

Right.

We uh there is not the transfer of rental moorings is no longer prohibited uh from owner to owner, all permits must go through the city.

So that scenario cannot happen anymore.

Um excuse me.

Did you mean the transfer from owner to owner is no longer permitted?

You said prohibited.

Oh, yes, right, you're right, you're right.

Permitted.

Correct.

It is prohibited uh to do a owner-to-owner transfer.

Um, the current holder of that commercial mooring must forfeit that mooring, and we have yet to even set the standards on how we're going to re-issue those.

I have the state standards, which may or may not really work with our city, but um, we have not gotten to that yet.

That's something that we're gonna be dealing with in the future.

So I understand your scenario.

That cannot happen.

Um, we have computerized the entire uh database.

You we cannot change those.

Um it's it had someone has to come in and physically change a name on that.

It at will and cannot happen.

Thank you.

Thank you for your patience.

That's name and address, please.

I'm very happy to be patient.

I think this is important stuff.

Uh, I'm Pete Denton.

I live at 94 Washington Street in the point.

Uh the reason I wanted to come up is uh I'm not an expert on insurance, maybe councilwoman Napolitano is uh but I've been buying a lot of insurance for 50 years or more in the business world, and some phrases have been spoken tonight that I think can be very confusing to people.

When I came in a little bit late, people were talking about insurance policies that would indemnify the city, and then I heard 200.

Now, indemnification of another party means that you will defend them and pay any judgment against that other party uh for things that uh for which you are liable.

Uh I've been taught by lawyers for 50 years, never indemnify another party for anything, unless there's no way you can operate your life without doing that.

I would never indemnify the city of Newport for something on the mooring that I've had for 53 years now.

Uh it's I'd it is incomprehensible to me that any insurance company would indemnify the city either through boat ownership or mooring permit ownership uh for um for anything.

Uh so it's one thing to say uh that the city is an additional insured on a policy, and if they're an additional insured, insured for what?

And typically what would be in there would be property damage and uh personal injury.

Uh but indemnification is a much broader and potentially far more expensive problem, because as soon as if you're the person that's indemnified, you can go out and hire all the New York lawyers you want at a thousand bucks an hour, and the other person that's indemnifying you is responsible for paying that.

And I would consider giving up my mooring after 53 years if the city of Newport said I've got to indemnify the city for something that happened.

Because even if the city, even if I'm not liable, or my you know, somebody else did something, but you become a named insured, and then the city says, hey, you've indemnified us, we're gonna send you all the bills, not only for the property or personal damage, but also for the legal fees.

So I think we have to be very careful as the city council, you know, and the solicitor, uh Steve, and all you folks is be very careful about the term indemnification.

If that's what you insist upon and what you want, that's not okay, but somebody may think it is okay, but make sure people understand what indemnification means versus just straight liability.

Mr.

Dunn, do you have uh private or commercial mooring?

Uh mine is private.

Okay.

I dumped it in the harbor in 1972 when people said go out and go over to J.T.

O'Connell's and buy a 300-pound mushroom and go out and dump it in the harbor.

And five years later, harbor master over there, got a chart and he literally a pencil, not even a pen, and wrote my name down.

And then 10 years later, they got a computer, and it all became official, but it was pretty funny and very informal back in the 70s.

Mr.

Chairman, might I?

Chris Dennon, thank you.

And this has been a great educational workshop, which is why we wanted this.

Uh, but the question for both you and for the administration.

I heard about 10 minutes ago when I asked the question of whether we require as a city proof of insurance or residential moorings, the answer was yes.

Uh do we not require uh indemnification of the city on said policies, residential, that is to say, non-commercial, because it seems like what we are ultimately asking to do with the ordinance is to indemnify the city uh via these commercial moorings and the insurance policies.

So uh therein lies the question for me.

Uh and the solicitor have to say, am I supposed to indemnify you?

No.

So the indemnification when we were talking about it before, deals with the additional insured.

So what an insurance policy does, basic, basic, when you get insurance, your insurance company agrees to defend and indemnify you against any loss.

So when the city of Newport becomes an additional insured, they become an indemnified party.

If there is a loss, they owe the same the same duty if there is coverage for it, and you fit under the coverage.

So there's the same as the insured.

That's when you walked in, that's what we were talking about at the time.

Yes, unfortunately, in some of these workshops, the terms go around.

Now tell you what, there are a lot more indemnification clauses out there that people that uh people agree to it than you you you're you're saying.

Any kind of commercial lease is gonna have that in there, the landlord and the tenant.

So it seems like what we're trying to do here uh with respect to the proposal for commercial insurance mandate or I'm sorry, insurance mandate on commercial moorings is to hold the city harmless.

Can I get a yes or a no on that one?

From the harbormaster or the solicitor.

Yeah, uh Mr.

Collin, yes.

But you're throwing around these terms, and then we get someone who comes up and corrects some of the misuse of it, and he was correct on some of it, we were using some of the terms broadly and indemnification clause.

We don't what we don't require right now is that these rental moorings in a separate document indemnify and hold us harmless.

Those are the indemnification agreements or clauses that uh the gentleman is talking about, and he's correct on that.

What um if we're an additional uh insured, Mr.

Collin, yes, we want to be held harmless through the fact that we're insured under that policy.

So there's two distinct issues with respect to commercial moorings and insurance.

One is the possibility of being an added insured as the city, which would ensure the hold harmless that I just discussed.

The second is the question of the city requirement for the insurance policy for commercial moorings, regardless of whether the city is uh an added insured.

If the city is not an added insured, which would mean that we are essentially covered in the hold harmless clause, however we define it.

If we are not an added insured in order to protect us, in order to have that hold harmless meaning, in order to have some substance to it.

It goes back to what Ms.

Johnson described as her insurance policy.

We would not be simply requiring general business liability insurance.

We would be requiring a policy which has teeth in it that does ultimately hold the city harmless from anything that might happen on the water.

Is that right?

No.

I I guess the insurance, you keep wanting to to say that the you know it there's insurance for these types of activities, okay.

So when somebody goes and asks their insurance provider, when they go to a proper insurance provider who can insure activities that will occur at a mooring or a mooring permit holder, and they do their due diligence, they'll issue the insurance, and we'll get a certificate of insurance.

We then look to see if that's the proper insurance.

I don't know why we're getting caught up with this, you know, business uh the the terms business general liability and trying to compare it to uh like a restaurant or something.

I I'm just I don't want to go to calling counsel Carlin.

I I'd like to continue on with uh some public comment because we're gonna be getting into this more as we as we keep going in more in depth with the thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Do you understand, Mr.

Chairman?

Do you understand the nature of the ordinance to be that we want to protect the city uh for insurance purposes?

That's what I would default to, yes.

Okay.

Do you also understand that we have the same concern with respect to residential moorings, non-commercial moorings?

I mean private moorings, private moorings, private moorings, however you'd like to define them.

Do you have that understanding as well?

Yes, I do.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right.

So again, I want to go back to public uh just one final thing.

This is where you know I'm ignorant, but I don't really know what hold harmless means.

So at some point the city's gonna have if that's what they're asking owners of various types of moorings for, they're gonna have to define what they mean by whole harmless.

If it's just bodily injury and property damage, liability insurance, that's one thing.

But if it's got a broadly define um uh indemnification clause in there, I'm guessing that's a much different question to an insurance company.

You think not?

You think it's the same question?

And in a general indemnification clause, they use that that a party agrees to indemnify and hold harmless.

It's that's the traditional language used in a indemnification.

So it's the same, it's the same thing.

I guess it gets into the question the details of the indemnification clause, and I've seen vastly different ones.

Um you're correct on that.

Okay, thank you, Mr.

Denton.

Anyone else would like to come up so everyone's uh excuse me, 14 Shield Street?

It's kind of a transfer insurance bewilderment, if you will.

But anyway, so uh we're required to have mandatory business insurance, but I'm not able to transfer have it uh personally, uh the mooring own ownership to my business, which I'm I don't know that doesn't really make sense to me.

Um but um so if the city city owns the moorings, then I feel the city should have their own policy that covers the mooring renters, as they are the owners, the city.

So why not the city have it?

Why not include in uh in the fees?

Um I'm wondering if it's mandatory year-round insurance, not seasonal.

And as far as mine, the person I rent to, so well, I have an S corporation, so I want it in my business name, the whole per uh purpose of an S Corp is to protect yourself personally.

So that's a major issue for me, wanting it to be put in my business name.

Um, but um bump um and my family obtained the mooring mooring decades ago.

Uh my mother actually to have a mooring.

I don't know if she, I don't think there was a big to-do back then.

She's trying to undercut the waiting list.

I think she had a boat.

Well, a commercial mooring grade, uh the potential to rent it to someone else or not.

Um bear with me, please.

I scratch notes.

Um and I uh so as far as me uh seasonal, I always know who I'm renting to, and I always verify um their insurance policy.

That never changes.

I only want seasonal.

I'm not I don't want to get into transient.

So speaking for myself, I know who's on there and I verify their insurance.

Thanks so much.

Thank you.

Um commercial mooring mooring owner before uh they were considered commercial moorings or whatever.

Uh and I have one of them now.

And the one of the things that I wanted to say to begin with is that it appears that there's a certain amount of animosity for the owners of commercial moorings.

And I'll have to say uh that I've used mine from before they were commercial moorings to support all the marine activity in Newport.

Uh over I guess 60 some odd years, including actually donating 10 of my commercial moorings to the New York Yacht Club for free in order to support the establishment of the New York Yacht Club.

And and I eventually uh sold five of them to them and uh to uh enhance their activity and that they've expanded just exponentially in Newport to the support economically and all the rest and the uh the commercial uh the sailing boating activity in the harbor.

Uh my experience at Bowens Wharf and with my moorings and also boating in Europe all over, the but the key is the insurance on the the boater has uh wherever whether they're renting a seasonal mooring or monthly mooring.

So I'm assuming that the city gets a copy or whatever of the insurance policy of all the boats that they lease the the city moorings, because one any kind of pollution is really key to that, the uh uh from the the boat owners uh activity.

Same thing, uh all marino operators, I think require we certainly do a bow and swarf, a a cop uh a certification of the insurance policy before they tie up a marina slip.

Uh so the one of the key things, uh I agree that the the city should be protecting their responsibility if they've got the deeper pockets, but the first step is making sure that everybody that rents moorings or marina slips or whatever marina slips doesn't really involve the the city because they don't own the marina slip itself like they do with the moorings and they just issue a permit.

So I think that is key.

And the idea that that there isn't a difference between the daily rentals and the and the seasonal rentals, the one mooring that I have, uh uh I rent to the parasale tenants at Bowens Wharf because they have a second boat.

I mean, and so they would be have been sort of out of business without the ability when they grew beyond the one boat to having to have two boats to do the business to support the people who come down to Bowens Wharf want to go on that thing.

Uh it's how happened that I personally owned a commercial mooring and was able to rent it to them and and uh obviously covered by our insurance and his is there, but to say that there's no difference between an individual that rents to one boat owner for the season and has copy of their insurance policy and rents them individually by the night, they still should have the responsibility, somebody should have the responsibility of making sure that the boat on the mooring is insured, whether it's the city or an individual who's managing uh moorings for other individual boat owners, uh commercial mooring owners and not.

Somebody should have the responsibility of making sure that the boat on the mooring is insured, whether it's the city or an individual who's managing uh moorings for other individual boat owners, uh commercial mooring owners and not.

So the two things.

One, I think that the commercial mooring owners, many of whom are here, have been incredibly supportive of the marine reputation and and the whole development in the city, and they they should be respected to a certain extent as such, and and that should be recognized.

And obviously, we all want to follow the law, we all want to have the right kind of insurance, and we don't want anybody to have to pay for something that they're not responsible for, but that's it.

I say thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

Nober.

Uh anybody else?

Yes, sir.

So uh I believe it's an ordinance, no transfers, but I have a letter from the uh May 1st, 2023 from a waterfront commission.

If there's a denial of transfer, there must be strong evidence on the reason why this shouldn't happen.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I have like three pages of questions, but we're not going to go through that now.

I did email each of you the questions that I was hoping to this workshop would help address between the mooring issues, the transfer issues, the yacht club um issues.

But I've uh boiled it down to just a couple.

Um you said earlier about the activity, you want us to insure against the activity that happens on a mooring.

What kind of activity do you expect on a mooring that needs the insurance?

I mean, boats sit on the mooring.

Um, I think when you're asking us to insure it, that we need a better definition of what we're insuring against.

Like if the boat breaks free from the mooring, the mooring is still on the bottom, so the boat's insured.

If the boat drags the mooring, then okay.

If it drags into something else, then the boat is insured for hitting whatever else it hits.

So, what liability does activity require?

Um, the other question I had, I think goes to the harbor master, or actually to the council and everybody is like, how can the commercial mooring holders have more accountability to the city to show that the responsibility of getting insurance for the boats that are on the moorings that you know it's not a case of we don't know who's on the mooring, we don't know this or that.

I don't think that happens very much at all.

Um the other question I did have was for the harbor master.

How do you ensure the private moorings that the city of Newport rents out on a transient basis that are owned by private individuals?

That's it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And really, if you have a time to check out that email I sent, I'd appreciate it.

I think so.

Neil Gray, four wheelport.

Um listening here tonight, we get a lot of information.

Information I wish that we as a group had last winter.

So we could have been working through this in unison versus having things set up and us feeling we've got to fight the city.

I think uh the harbormaster said he's uh fine with delaying the application from November 15th.

I recommend that you, the council, do that to give the citizens that are concerned, trying to do the right thing.

We're hearing different things from the solicitor that tonight, yeah.

Every one of us has been going to insurance guide, and the insurance guy is saying, what is it that the city wants?

I don't know, general business liability, what is what they're telling us.

And well, some of them don't ask, others say that doesn't really cover what you need.

Why are they asking you to get something that is not what you need?

You need a different name which identifies the different type of insurance.

Indemnification, additionally insured.

We got to come together on all this so that we're not out there, everybody doing their own thing, and then half of them coming into the city, and they get rejected.

And the deadline is here, and they're gonna lose their mooring.

Um, I don't think any of you want that to happen.

I don't think you want to be the hard nose to say if you don't get this in, you're gonna lose your mooring because there's been too much confusion, and we didn't have good workshop to work it out.

Um the moorings are out of the water, they're going into winter storage.

There's no liability, I think.

Steve will say the chances of that happen over the next four or five months, very rare, because nobody's out there, everything's put away.

We have an opportunity to take a breather, have another workshop in the middle of the winter, have insurance people here instead of the solicitor saying he here's a the way he sees it and the definitions.

Why don't we get an insurance person in here to tell all of us?

And then we all agree, and then we say to everybody here, this is what you need to get.

And then everybody's happy.

You've got what you want.

We're not pulling our hair out, trying to figure what out what you want, getting prices of $2,500, then down to $1,500.

I mean, beaten on these guys to try and get something.

Most of these people that are renting a single mooring, they need it.

I have Newport Mooring Service, and I've broken a handful of mooring.

And my customers have now transitioned from him and her down to her mostly.

The he's we don't last as long as you ladies.

And I get the phone call, Neil.

Is it rented yet?

Can I get my check?

Well, not quite.

I haven't, you know, he hasn't got it back to me yet.

As soon as he does, I need that money.

It's not a lot, but to them it is.

And for us to put a very big financial burden onto them so that they have to give it up, is not right.

When we haven't, we haven't all done due diligence to make sure that we understand what it is we all need.

As far as you know, all our boats have to be insured, we have to have an insurance policy.

The transient boats, he's right.

Boat comes in and you rent it to a transient, you have no idea.

You assume they're a good boater and they've got insurance.

Guy comes in for one night, you're not asking, hey, before you tie up to the mooring, I need your copy of your insurance.

That doesn't happen.

Umsients do happen on private residential mooring because they're allowed two weeks a year to let other people use their mooring.

That's in the ordinance, right?

So they're transient also, maybe a short window, but their insurance right now is boat liability insurance.

The thing reads, they have to provide the city with insurance on the vessel.

That's not the mooring.

So they do fall into it, and they are not going to be happy because they're not generating any revenue to pay off the fee.

Uh so all I'm asking is that we delay the the implication uh the the 15th, November 15th date.

Let's all work together with the staff with the with the uh individuals, get an insurance agent in here, can't have him train us as to what the terms mean.

Thank you, uh Mr.

Gray.

Thank you so much.

Okay.

Thank you.

And that's why that's one of the reasons why we're here tonight is to do, you know, a workshop with this.

We have to do more.

And we are just finally here.

Okay.

Mr.

Chair.

Yes, Council.

Okay.

Um his statement actually led into my last question.

I was wondering for a solicitor being if there was a way to get mooring holders, the criteria prior to them looking for insurance, so they're not out looking for insurance, getting insurance, and then coming back to find out it's not sufficient.

I can ask the for those who have submitted their insurance already, and there have been some.

Uh, I don't think we rejected any of them.

I am no.

So on that, I mean it is a can we, you know, I I would take the call from any of these insurance agents they're talking to.

If they're asking what's the city looking for, well, I mean, they're free to call my office.

We'll tell them what they're looking for.

You know, the we're looking for a liability policy on the for what they're they're renting, their rental moorings, their activities there, and activity, yeah, the activity of rental or using that mooring.

You know, on that.

I mean, uh, when you talk about liability insurance, it sure in whatever industry you're in, whether you're a restaurant or uh uh a retail store or a builder or something like that, there's all going to be different different aspects of it.

And a lot of that is the insured going over it with their insurance agent.

But we can help out with that if we can also try to see if we can get some um some of the companies that seem to be willing to insure to maybe come down or you know, get that information out to people on that is the delay.

I think Steve's already mentioned something about a delay.

The other thing we can do for some of those uh mooring holders that are um permit holders that have a mooring company managing and and and uh uh on the um mooring, if they can provide for this year alone, because I don't know where we're gonna go with some of the other there are gonna be, you know, we've learned I think our lesson on one thing when we are proposing new changes to the uh commercial moorings that not only will it be at the waterfront commission, but we'll we're gonna ask the council to have workshops on that.

So we will try to correct that with anything else we do.

But getting back to what I was suggesting for this year alone, we could if those mooring companies go to their insurance provider, and I'm sure they're fairly good sized, you know, uh businesses and in they can put the city, they have that insurance, they have those limits, and they can make the city a additional insured on the policy.

We could accept that for this year, and um that may be a way to work it out.

Also, what they would need to do, what the trust suggested to me, if they give the their current insurance provider a copy of our ordinance saying that they're they're the person subleased to them is required to provide this insurance, so they need to do this.

They might be able to get that legal relationship that will allow them to do that.

The other thing the city would be willing to do is a simple agreement whereby um the city and that mooring holder, uh excuse me, the mooring company managing the mooring will uh agree to provide the insurance and name the city as an additional insured, and if you have a simple agreement like that, their insurance company should probably would probably uh um uh allow that.

Now, they can try that.

If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but that might be a way where they can um it might be something as simple as their existing insurance and not any kind of additional premium paid.

So we could do that for that yeah, and I can go over that with uh any of the more uh mooring companies who wouldn't want to look into that for some of their um mortgage holders, excuse me, mooring holders.

Any uh anyone else from the public?

Yes, sir.

Uh my name's Raymond Goddard, 46th Chastelic Avenue, uh lifelong Newporter.

A handful of us left here.

Um, just wanted to, and I can't speak for the commercial uh mooring holder community at large, but I can tell you from the multiple meetings that I've attended that you know there is a certainly a perception of animosity from the city to the mooring holder.

Uh that is a perception, whether it's real or not.

Um you know, it seems that we're getting to this point where we're evolving into almost like an adversarial relationship, which I think is unfortunate really, because uh most of the people I know in this community, and there's a lot of people here I know who have these commercial moorings are an asset to the city of Newport.

We've worked well with the city of Newport for many, many years.

In my case, it's been in our family since 1974, right?

And there have been times when I put my own vote on it.

There have been times when I've rented it out season, almost always seasonal, by the way.

I think that's what the majority of us do.

Um, but in in those cases when there have been times when there has been no one on the mooring, I have I've let people from Sale Newport use it, you know.

And so we're part of a larger community, right?

And I think we serve a valuable part of that community.

And I think that's really getting lost in this conversation.

So that's really what I wanted to say.

And any uh final oh, sorry, come on.

My name's Leslie Smith.

Uh, I'm probably the only one that's coming up here to speak from not from the city of Newport, and from um Harvard Court, Massachusetts, uh, longtime um participant in water sports here in uh Newport.

Uh, our mooring that that we've had in the family been since 1974.

And um, I just want to say that that we've been good stewards of this um asset that we have, and uh that uh we've always been available.

Um we've we used the the mooring for many, many years personally with when we had a boat, and um since my father got older, he he got rid of the boat and we turned it over to renting it commercially.

Um and I have been called by the harbor master before.

There are two contacts on the form that we fill out, and um both fan two family members are on there.

Uh, when there was a problem, uh it was responded to immediately and with the help of the um people that I hire to manage the mooring.

Um, and we do a seasonal rental only, and um it's it helps folks like uh gentlemen here that that said that he rented.

So I just fully support the the people in the community here.

This this is so important to have places like Old Port Marine and like Aquidneck Mooring, they're very valuable assets to your community here.

So I hope that we can find ways to work this out and not have that animosity.

And I would just hope that we would have better communication with people like all of us here when there are major changes.

Um, just like I got a notice that my abutter at my home next door is doing a construction project, you know.

Why don't we get the same kind of notification for these big changes in transfer of ownership and with insurance?

I think um timeliness of that is is really critical.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Mike Mealsel 14 Beacon Hill Road, Newport.

Back in the day around 1980, the city decided to uh charge mooring fees in 1985.

They asked people who had private moorings if they were interested in going commercial in order to create a market for transient vessels and seasonal vessels, so there would be some opportunity for people to come to visit Newport.

A lot of these people, many of them went with commercial moorings, and they invested in the city, they paid for the moorings, and they paid the city an annual fee for the last 40 years for commercial moorings.

Before that, they had private moorings, so they've been paying the city for 45 years.

Now we feel that the city suddenly thinks that maybe we're not viable anymore.

And the city should take what we've invested in and put our money into and had a business and tried to do our best to support the city.

And this idea of us not being able to transfer our moorings now is another roadblock because you look at us, we're not young.

What's gonna happen to these moorings?

We feel we should be able to find suitable people who are interested in carrying on the tradition of commercial mooring holders who are supporting the city and are putting money into the city and are welcoming visitors who spend a ton of money here.

And the fact that now we're being told we can't transfer the moorings, even though the Coastal Resources Management Council has said it's okay.

Why are we going with a local opinion when the Coastal Resources Management Council said it's okay?

So we're at a loss.

And one other thing I want to point out is when we're talking about private people who are renting mooring or private people who own moorings have to submit their insurance policy for that private mooring.

They're not insuring the mooring, they're insuring the boat.

So private moorings are still not insured.

And when the city takes a private mooring and rents it out, that mooring is not insured.

So we commercial mooring owners, people are being taxed with with this new insurance policy to protect the city, but the private people aren't.

And I have to thank Chris for saying that maybe if our insurance companies who would insurance now could name the city, and we tried doing that, we submitted all our brokerage customers to the Harbormaster's office, and they were named our on our insurance policy, and we were we were refused.

But our insurance I tells us it would be fine.

So if we can work something out along those lines, that would that would be very helpful.

Thank you.

Mr.

Chairman, Council Carlin.

Mike, thanks.

Uh can a pass-through entity, uh LLC, uh and S-Corp, uh hold title to or hold a permit for a commercial mooring?

Yes.

So uh I understand what you're saying, and I appreciate and respect it and support you.

Uh but with respect to the inability to pass down uh the commercial mooring permit, if it's registered as an LLC, that's virtually uh it's limitless in terms of the time capacity.

In other words, if it's if it's the LLC which holds the the commercial mooring permit, uh, regardless of whether Mike Musil retires as president of the pass-through entity, another president is coming on, and uh by nature of the business, you're passing it not from owner to owner, uh, but to the new president uh or the new director of of the LLC.

Am I correct?

No.

Um your harbor master declared a year ago last January in a recommendation to um the city manager that if there was any change in any LLC in the ownership of any LLC or any corporation, that transfer would not be allowed, which is totally against the principles of free enterprise.

And now that the city is requiring commercial uh mooring insurance, many people want to take their moorings that are in their individual names and put them into an LLC, and the harbor mess is not allowing that either.

So we're stuck with trying to get business business insurance for a private individual.

A private individual should be able to form an LLC to have their business insurance to protect themselves from any kind any sort of liability, and we are stuck in limbo here because none of this is being allowed.

An LLC is in fact formed primarily for the purpose of legal protection, correct?

Yes.

Uh follow-up and not a follow-up, uh separate question, last one for you, because this is a uh workshop not just on insurance requirements, but also it's a workshop regarding uh the ordinance which had one passage and which was continued uh regarding a second passage, and that is to say the one-time opportunity for commercial mooring holders to transfer to uh a non-commercial, an individual uh or what is the technical name, Mike?

Private private mooring.

Uh I at the first hearing regarding the ordinance, first of all, I voted against the ordinance.

Uh the ordinance passed on first reading three to two, but I asked the question of the Harbormaster uh regarding what the CRMC Red Book, how how many classifications of moorings does the CRMC Red Book define?

Two.

There are two.

I I was given that answer uh and I asked what the CRMC thought of the proposed ordinance which would create a third mooring classification, that of a yacht club uh mooring.

And and the answer from the Harbor Master at the time paraphrasing was uh the individual he spoke to at CRMC said he thought it was just fine.

Uh and uh nothing was wrong with what we were doing.

Between the adoption of the first hearing or the adoption of the first reading of the ordinance, and now uh CRMC has apparently uh changed its mind on uh the what I just described.

So I have one question for you, and I'm sorry for that long setup, and I have one question for the Harbor Master.

Uh question for you, Mike is are you aware of any other communities in the state of Rhode Island who have a third classification for moorings?

No, I'm no thank you, Mr.

Harbormaster.

Can you tell us uh what has developed since the adoption of the first reading and now with regard to CRMC and apparently their change of heart?

Sure.

Um the yacht club definition is in the CRMC Red Book.

Um it is not well defined.

Um it does exist.

There is a third yacht club mooring.

There are many harbors that have yacht club moorings in them.

Uh Watch Hill, Block Island, East Greenwich.

It is a common delineation of a type of mooring.

Um so my definition that or the city's definition that we produced for CRMC is well well defined.

It explains exactly what a yacht club mooring is.

They are reviewing that because it's a lot more defined than their definition.

So that is where we're on.

We're waiting to hear back from CRMC on the definition.

They asked me politely to hold off on reading.

We could have read it and could have accepted it.

But if there are going to be changes, we like to be in line with CRMC.

We'd have to reread and revisit that.

So I was recommended to produce the yacht club mooring by CRMC.

Um, and that is why I went forward with that.

Thank you both.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Boss.

Okay, one more thing.

Sure, Mike.

Uh word has gotten around that uh old Port Mooring has not been fair to our customers.

We're charging too much money.

I'm here to tell you that when we when we broker somebody's mooring, we not only inspect it, maintain it, find find the customer, find the insurance, and we pay them a 20%.

We charge, I'm sorry, we charge them a 20% commission, which if you have a house that you have a outfit manage your house, they probably pay a lot more than that.

So we don't think that's unfair, but the word has gotten out that we're trying to be unfair to our customers.

We are not.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh sir, over here on the Lesson.

Did you want to come up?

Hi, my name is Greg Diacentis.

I live at 37 Elmwood Ave in Middletown.

I own a Quidnick Mooring Company and we broker moorings.

And I wanted to clarify um exactly what we've been talking about, that uh um the city is an additional insured on our policy when we broker moorings.

It's been like that for all the years we've been doing it.

We did contact the Harbor Master to try to allow our brokered mooring customers um to be able to be included on our policy, and they are listed on our policy.

Um it wasn't accepted by the city.

Um so I just wanted to let you guys know that um you know, set up like that.

Thank you.

When when we developed this, um with the city solicitor, the policy had to be written in the permit holder's name.

That's what we started with.

Uh the city solicitor talked to the trust today, so they are working on some solutions for this year, but it was agreed that it has to be in the policy holder's name.

So I I understand that there's a lot of brokerage going on, but it has to be in the policyholders' name.

That's how we wrote it.

And that's that's why originally I said, you know, when people try to do this, I I've got the applications from Greg and we we discussed it.

And uh, but that was what I you know, we were we what we decided on.

Um, you know, that wants to be changed, and the person that we act, and not policy, permit holder's name.

Person that we write the permit to does not need insurance, then that's we can do that.

I don't believe that that's what the trust had in mind.

Um so you know, we're we're we're going back, you know, just to clarify one other thing between the seasonals and the the transients, the ability they have the ability to do it nightly.

They choose not to do it nightly and make the most out of their business.

Um, but that is what we give them.

We give them the right to do run this business as hard as as hard as they want.

So I understand a lot of people don't.

They choose to do seasonally, and that's great.

Um, I completely agree with everything that that everyone's come up and said that they have, you know, they are a complete asset to this harbor.

The rental moorings are an absolute mandatory to make the harbor vivacious as it is.

And yes, there has been by you know, saying that we're trying to improve the safety for the city and the exposures to the city.

There's a huge amount of animosity.

I've taken it all.

I mean, for the last four months, the people have called up and screamed at me or having to produce an insurance policy on their business.

They don't feel that they need to.

So yeah, I I definitely feel that animosity, and that was not the goal.

It was to protect the city's exposure.

My job is to protect the city from all sorts of threats.

Most of them are physical.

I'm out there on the water, they're dealing with boats, broken stuff, pollution is a huge one, public access is a huge one.

Some of them are more administrative.

My colleagues pointed this out from other harbors that it's in the ordinances that the companies must provide um insurance on their rental moorings.

Our harbor is a little unique.

We have this 104 rental moorings.

A lot of them are 83 of them are single.

That is not how other harbors are rent.

They are rent by a the mooring fields that that that they are rented to are accompanied by a landside facility.

And they're major companies that run these land side facilities.

That's how it is all over the state.

And that's how CRMC even defines, you know, the the rental mooring or commercial mooring.

And there's there's a lot of stipulations to actually get that approval from C RMC, which I know we grew up, and that's we're still left over from that growth.

And I I totally appreciate it.

And there's hasn't been a single talking about removing anyone's moorings or anything.

This is just a safety precaution for the city.

Um, that is that is what we're doing on this one.

You know, the intention was not to have all this animosity on the change.

You know, Mr.

Musal mentioned about the um transfer of moorings.

Uh, that was handed down policy from CRMC in 2019, after they found out that moorings were being sold on you know the black market or cash going from person to person without the city's involvement at all.

And um, I've I read that letter out loud, and it's crystal clear on what the role of the city is.

These are city permits that need to be managed by the city.

Um the idea of LLCs and all that was was not mentioned in the letter, but it's still you know, the concept of transfers and money for transfers is and I I have I have issued that to everybody.

Some of you have read it, some have not, but uh that is gonna be the next thing we are gonna have to deal with uh as you know as a council and a group.

Obviously, we're gonna start with workshops, not with ordinances on this next one.

So I just jump on you there.

No, um Steve.

I just wanted to make sure in regards to the insurance you that I have my customers listed as additional insured, the city is listed as additional insured.

Bring in the policy, yeah.

Bring in the policy.

You guys got copies of it.

Yeah.

So I I you have to resend all that.

Okay.

Thank you.

Steve, um, when do you um suggest we uh delay this implementation too?

Do you have any particular I um I'm not sure.

So when we delay, you know, we have a deadline of November 19th, and that is for really people who haven't had any contact with the harbors department at all.

Um, and that's when we start our, you know, we send out a letter of of a forfeiture that you have not done the bare minimum to keep your mooring.

For this, um, all the people behind me have contacted me either just to contact me to yell at me or contact me with actually insurance, and we're working through on getting that insurance.

Um, so they've reached out.

We're we are on the right path.

So what would be the delay?

I wouldn't go too long because we don't want to be doing this in the spring, because if people either don't choose not to do it or give up their mooring, then you're actually gonna put the person who rents from them in a in a bad place.

We want to provide this service for our you know, the customers in the harbor.

So I wouldn't go on too long.

Um, you know, the the people who I've been getting who've found insurance have gotten it and turned it in and moved on with life.

And that's that's it's over, and they're they're they're renting their mooring now.

So I I would leave it up to you on what you want to delay.

As long as people have been in contact with me, I don't mind postponing a month or two.

It's not not a problem whatsoever.

Char uh, Mr.

Chairman.

Yes, sir.

It's with great respect, and I appreciate that, and I support that delay, but it's not your decision.

That the ordinance holds the weight of law.

It's law.

I agree.

So we damn well better put it on the next city council agenda if we want to extend uh the deadline by which people are required, mooring holders are required to get insurance.

Other than that, I would at least suggest the end of the year.

And then we would try to uh with the intention that we end up um trying to get uh look further into the insurance um and maybe get some of these companies um get some type of uh uh information on companies that would provide this and get some costs uh uh along that line.

Do you feel that this is something that has to be on the next um at the next meeting, or can we wait another couple of years?

No, we're not gonna.

I know I'm just wondering.

Yeah, I mean we can just to clarify, um, it doesn't have to be on the next meeting.

Uh, but if we are going to enact an ordinance reversing what we did, which is the law, and we're gonna have two hearings, we've got to get it done before the deadline, because whether we like it or not, we can't wave a magic wand, even if all of us are in agreement, it holds the weight of law.

It's the law.

We have to do that.

If we want to reverse the meetings before, so yeah, so we don't let's get it on real soon.

The solicitor is saying no, we don't need to uh with respect to the next council meeting, but I am suggesting why not?

Yeah.

Back at it.

Um, no, I think you guys are doing great.

Just Tom.

I think the insurance is a big issue.

I'd like to address the issue of the yacht club mooring designation that was just brought up again because if a couple of questions, uh, we the Harbormaster just put in 20 new um commercial moorings this year.

Did there were 60 people taken off the mooring waiting list to have private moorings available?

What is happening to get the citizens of Newport that have been on a mooring waiting list for years?

How many of them are being moved annually to have their own mooring?

All I'm hearing is about commercial and yacht club moorings um and things like that, new categories.

I don't see where anything is moving to help the citizens of Newport get their own moorings for people who are waiting.

The other situation with the yacht club mooring as as with transfers that you're worried about now with LLCs and stuff, a yacht club is in perpetual perpetuity.

There is they're always gonna be there.

So these yacht clubs are never gonna turn back into the city of Newport any of that any of those moorings.

So when you do that and you have a yacht club like New York, which is great, but they have 5400 members.

What's to stop?

Where does it stop?

Does it stop with the 12 moorings they have now?

At the same meeting when I asked that, the harbor master said yes, and then like within 20 minutes, he says, well, he wants to make more moorings available to the yacht clubs for one design.

Well, once you do that, and you give New York Yacht Club another 12 or 20 moorings because they usually have at least 20 boats per fleet, and I don't know what you know, Ida does, but let's just give them another eight.

Those moorings are gone forever.

They're gone.

No city resident is gonna get them unless they're a member of either of those yacht clubs.

It just doesn't seem like you're giving to city to people that live here, work here, have a boat here.

You're not giving them a fair chance to get a mooring that they can call their own, at least for their generation.

We've already gone over the point where you can only transfer the private moorings we're allowed to transfer one time.

So now, and we and that was done because the city said, hey, people moving into town, they don't have time, they don't, they're never going to get a mooring because they've been in the families for generations and generations.

So okay, that went in.

And now you're saying that, well, the yacht clubs can do whatever they want because we're going to give them the moorings so they'll always be here.

The yacht clubs are going to be here no matter what.

But you know, if you're really trying to give things to the people of Newport, you got to put some private moorings out there that they can afford to get and keep that they call their own.

Mr.

Chairman, but what about the um what about the new mooring field that's out there that um didn't a lot of those go to residents?

You'd have to ask the harbor master.

They were all listed as commercial and they went out on a bid basis, like uh it was uh it wasn't, I don't think anybody was taken off the list.

It was those who wanted to collect or lottery.

Lottery, and it went on a lottery basis.

All right, so the uh the small boat mooring field is in very, very shallow water.

It's not private moorings have never been placed there.

We did um a lottery for that.

It's all Newport residents got those that had no opportunity to rent a mooring from any of the rental companies.

The boats are too small.

I I don't blame the rental companies.

If they have a 40-foot mooring, they there's a such a need in Newport, they're gonna rent it to a 40-foot mooring and they're gonna get the full $5,000.

To rent it to a 19-foot whaler does not make sense.

I completely agree.

But there was a real hole in access for new porters who start with small boats.

Most people start with a 19-foot whaler and they move up.

So I had so many people come to me and say, hey, can we there's something we can do about this?

Is there any place you can put it?

Is there any place that not being used?

That is how that this got developed.

I was trying, I mean, the city, if we wanted to put 20 commercial moorings in, I would have put 20, 70 foot boat moorings in, and we would have made hundreds of thousands of dollars.

That's not the goal of the city.

It's to provide access and enjoyment to the harbor.

Um, these we we have 130 applicants, I believe.

There's definitely a need for this in the harbor.

The area where we put the moorings is not serviced by the launch because it's so shallow.

They they said it's too shallow to go in there and they're not going to do it.

It is a shallow area.

We do not issue private moorings to in that in that area.

When someone comes up for a list, we just issued 18 new private moorings, not people that dropped off because they they decided to give up voting, but 18 new.

We do not discriminate on where what kind of boat they have.

If we're gonna say we're only gonna put you in three feet of water, then they can't put their 80-foot or 60-foot trawler there.

You have to give them, they say, I have a 60-foot trawler.

We have to pick a spot that'll accommodate that vessel.

So we absolutely have been putting new moorings in.

And then as people decide to give up or forfeit their private mooring, we replace that with someone on the list.

We are still going on that eight to one ratio.

I have not, even though CRMC is demanded we go back to three to one.

I have not, I believe, because our ratio in the harbor is still about 50-50 resident to non-resident.

So I still believe that we need to add more resident moorings.

So that that new mooring field is considered commercial.

It is considered commercial.

Okay.

Um and what is the largest boat that can go there?

26 feet with a six foot, uh, sorry, a three-foot draft weighing no more than 5,500 pounds.

Um, yeah, we should talk about yacht club moorings.

If you guys don't mind, we can switch gears a little bit to the next the next topic.

We have another topic to talk about tonight.

Um the reclassification of yacht club moorings.

So currently, right now, the two yacht clubs have 27 rental moorings.

They go on perpetuity.

It's just like if it was on an LLC, it would go on for forever.

So to say that you know we're issuing something that's that's different or new or that doesn't already exist is incorrect.

The yacht clubs already have rental moorings in their names, and they're required to provide assurance.

Um we are going to start calling, we need to figure out what is out in the actual harbor before we make any changes, or we improve it before you know.

We need to actually kind of take care of what our house looks like.

We've been calling moorings the wrong term for a while.

The CRMC suggested that we we start a yacht club um designation.

So that is what I proposed, the yacht club destination.

It is the same as the rental mooring, except the yacht clubs do not rent to the general public.

They rent to the yacht club members and uh clubs with uh reposity.

That is how the definition of yacht club.

They've been around for a long time.

This is the culture of the yacht club.

It's why people join yacht clubs.

You get moorings in certain harbors that that you your yacht club or you're allowed to use and go to and rent.

Um the reclassification of rental to private is what we we talked about numerous times here.

There's people who are using their rental mooring as a private mooring.

We should call that a private mooring and switch it over.

Um I truly believe we should not be that should not be in the rental percentage.

It should be you call it what it should be called.

Will that give an opportunity for new companies to get rental moorings?

Absolutely.

We're gonna hit that 25%, and we're gonna make a class of we're gonna figure out what the stipulations are for companies to apply for more rental moorings out there.

I I absolutely believe that's important.

Um is that the CRMC is working on it right now if the city moorings are in the count.

They're not, then we're gonna be at that 25% very quickly.

Um we this the Harbors Department has been very active in finding areas in the harbor to put new moorings in.

We just we just issued a lot.

The as the permit process goes on, people will be giving up their moorings.

We immediately replace them for next person on the list.

And it takes a while to get a mooring in.

If someone's been on that list for 17 years and they don't have a boat, it can take quite a bit of time.

They have to go get a boat before we put a mooring in.

They have to tell us what kind of boat they have.

And uh once they buy a boat, we go out, we find a spot for them, and we go put the gear in, and then we have to tweak it once or twice, and then that's it.

That can take a while.

That can take a long time, up to a year.

How do you decide what is a commercial mooring and what is um a private mooring?

Um what do you mean?

How do I just Well, I mean, you the the new mooring field is commercial.

So why would that not be private?

Because we can't issue private moorings in that shallow water.

Okay.

Yeah, it's it's too shallow.

If if you're next on the list and you have okay, if you're next on the list, you have an ensign, right?

Okay, what's the draw?

Three feet.

So if I put you in two feet of water or three feet of water, that's where some of those private moorings are.

Would that be acceptable?

There you go.

You say they're on the quarters.

Right.

They don't have them.

Like they have much like the mooring and they're once they're mooring.

I I totally I I am I I totally agree with what you're saying.

I understand.

That's the point.

It's like rather than that commercial, almost 19 butters, 911.

Small homes for everyone.

They all need a place.

Yeah, that's the perfect place for them.

That's in the spindle.

Yep.

Okay.

So I I hear what you're saying.

I do guys understand what I'm saying.

You see the other side of the coin.

So if you're not, let's say if you have a 40 foot boat.

Okay.

I'm not in the middle of 18 water.

Period.

But those boats, those votes you put in there.

Sorry.

They should be able to add those moorings.

Okay.

You were just talking about hold on, hold on one second.

We just talking about the yacht club.

Yep, yacht club.

More so.

So okay, we're talking about the yacht club transfer.

So the um I wrote a very very specific definition for yacht clubs, exactly what we talked about.

They, you know, the yacht clubs um are not for general rental, they're for yacht club members and uh clubs reposity.

And I when I gave that to CRMC, they said we need to study this more because this is a very, very specific their mention of yacht club moorings.

It's just in the definitions.

Yacht club moorings exist.

They don't really have a definition for it.

Is there a oh I'm sorry, Mr.

Chairman?

Uh is there a uh definition or language within the proposed ordinance, which would strictly prohibit these new yacht club mooring holders from renting to anybody who was not a yacht club member.

If I am correct, about 10 minutes ago, I heard you suggest that the yacht clubs in Newport Harbor.

Uh there are more than three or just three.

There are three, only two have rental moorings right now.

Which ones?

Ida Lewis and New York Yacht Club.

So did I hear you correctly when you suggested that the New York Yacht Club and Ida Lewis will not rent to anybody who is not a member of their respective yacht clubs?

We we that has been the practice of those clubs.

So that is what I copied.

Well, we put that in the language so that it doesn't become just the practice, it becomes the law.

It is in the it is in the the definition that I wrote that they will rent two members or club members of with riposity.

So it does not say that they can, it doesn't say they can't rent to the general public, but it says they will rent to members or clubs with reposity.

So if you have a reciprocal agreement with the Ida Lewis Yacht Club or New York, and you're from Connecticut Harbor Yacht Club, uh you can rent from New York or Ida Lewis, but we won't strictly within the ordinance, or you didn't strictly within the ordinance forbid non-such agreements or forbid those who I don't believe I forbid it now.

Okay.

I mean, I would suggest that that's only fair uh that you within the ordinance strictly prohibit the rental by the if it happens, new yacht club mooring holders.

The prohibition would be on renting to anybody but members and those who have a reciprocal agreement between the clubs.

If I could just in the definitions of that proposed one, it the last sentence in the proposed definition says yacht club moorings are used exclusively by yacht club members or members of other clubs through reciprocity agreements.

All right, great.

I get if you the council felt more comfortable.

Could we put in additional language?

Sure.

I think that that covers it.

Uh the gentleman in the back.

Come up.

All right.

Uh my name is Will Musil, 27 years old, and I've worked at Oldport Marine for 27 years.

Um, I just wanted to come up here and sort of try to inform the council about the harbor, what's really going on, how things work, or at least my perspective, although it has been 27 years.

Um so Steve, you know, he comes up here, he likes to hear himself talk.

It's you know, it's okay.

But um, he likes to talk about public access a lot.

And uh he mentioned that he well, the whole one of the reasons why we're here is to get this ratio back in order.

Um, yet he throws off the ratio by putting in those 20 small boat moorings, which he admitted are classified as commercial.

So, first problem there.

So, on to public access.

Um, I just want to give you an idea of how old marine runs our rental moorings.

Um, so oldport marine, I would say arguably has the best public access to rental moorings in the entire harbor.

Uh for three years now, uh, we've used a very popular online dock and mooring booking platform called Dockwa.

Uh, if you've never heard of DACA, it's an easy way to reserve moorings um or dock space for any boater.

To give you an idea of how popular it is, I've found that at least 90% of the boaters I've encountered in Newport have a DACO account and use it regularly to book dock space or moorings.

The majority of the marinas in Newport Harbor use it as well.

Um Marine using DACWA has completely changed the way moorings are rented in Newport Harbor.

In the past, people would avoid Newport during busy times after making the multi-hour sale or motor to Newport because they wouldn't know if a mooring would be available for rent.

No longer voters have to worry about whether mooring will be available for them in Newport when they arrive.

And a side note here um the city does not use Docwa does not take reservations at all, if you didn't know.

So now they can simply go online or on the app and book a mooring.

Now, in addition, uh DACO has insurance information for each of the boats that we rent moorings to right under in the customer's profile on their account.

So it's safe, easy, and effective.

Now, if you don't believe it, you can read our 188 five-star reviews out of I think like 213 uh right online.

So now you ask, how does this apply to the rental mooring permit holders?

Well, the commercial mooring permit holders in this room provide the moorings that are rented to these visiting boaters.

They have provided moorings either passively or actively for 50 plus years, and this must continue.

The commercial mooring permit holders are the ones who make the investment or made the investment, as my father said, to install moorings and rent them to visiting boats, making Newport into the sailing town it is today.

Now I'd like to move on to a separate section.

Um just want to inform you about this.

The connection will be made later.

When the Harbormaster came before the city council and produced a new almost half million dollar boat, he told you how towing is his bread and butter, and how with this new vessel he can tow up to 120-foot boat.

No, it may not seem related to the topic at hand.

Please bear with me.

I've been towing boats around Newport Harbor and Narragansett Bay since before I could see over the bow of a boat.

I've towed everything from a dinghy to a 200 foot yacht.

I hold a 50-ton Coast Guard license with a commercial towing endorsement.

And I also work and was specifically recruited by another major recreational towing assistance company based out of Wickford.

I've towed in all types of weather in tight spaces, high winds in the dark, you name it.

And believe me when I tell you that the companies like Oldport Marine provide that provide specifically assistance towing services to recreational boaters in Newport and Rhode Island should not be forced to compete with the Newport Harbormaster.

You'll never see any other harbor master in the country towing 120 foot boats anywhere, ever.

There is in fact an organization called Seaport, which stands for the Conference of Professional Operators for Response Towing, which represents, promotes, protects, and defends its member companies through communication, relationship development, and education.

Now, how does all of this relate to the topic at hand?

Well, unfortunately, just with the like with the rental mooring issues, the harbor master seems after be sort, seems to be after a sort of control that will not stand in this harbor.

For instance, under the proposed new section of yacht club moorings, it reads all moorings, the total number of spaces and vessel size restrictions shall be determined by the whole by the harbor master.

So yacht clubs can have as many moorings as the harbor master feels like giving them.

And he can put them wherever he wants.

So in conclusion, we should not be competing with the city for towing.

We should not be competing with the city for mooring rentals.

This will not stand under the watch of the people in this room.

So do not be fooled.

The insurance requirement on rental moorings is simply a way to drive up the cost of owning said mooring or moorings and force permit holders to give them up.

These requirements and proposals are undermining local businesses.

And I think everyone here would like a logical explanation of why we're being treated this way.

Thank you.

Anyone else from the public?

So uh the answer um there's a need for private waiting 70 years.

So 20 were but not put in for can you come up to 20 uh 20 commercial were just added where uh large demand for private.

Why were the 20 added as commercial and not private?

I know the depth, et cetera, but private people have small little 17 whalers would love it.

Like an answer on that.

I think you gave that answer earlier.

So right.

What was the end?

Steve, you want to just so when we issue a private mooring, we allow them to have any type of boat they they want.

Um we don't limit them to the size of that boat.

The people that were coming to me asking for help in getting their they were they're not either on the list or they're so far down the list that there's no way they're gonna get a private mooring in their life.

There is a long list, uh it's a long wait, 15 and 20 years.

And I've been I've been increasing that in as fast as I can.

So when I have a need of all these people coming to me, say, is there an area that we can put small boats in that is not being used for the private moorings?

And uh we found one.

It was on the spindle, and that's why we put those in.

And this this wasn't last year.

We did we started this almost four years ago.

And it's you know, it was discussed and worked on, and we showed where it was.

Um, you know, this was long before we turned in the harbor management plan and started talking about this 25%.

So it's um this has been in the works for quite some time.

And um, it took it took an extra year to get the funding the to put the moorings in, but that's why it was it was you know delayed one year.

But this is not something that we just threw out there and said, let's just make you know 20 commercial moorings.

If we were gonna just go for money, this is not the way to do it.

This is a an access.

I tow we towed a boat today, by the way.

Um, when people call for help, they call the harbor master.

That is why we tow boats.

Um, you know, so we're not competing with anyone.

We are the city that the issues the permits that oversees everything.

When when, you know, when someone calls for help or a tow and we're on the water, we're gonna do it.

Uh, we're not gonna, it's our job, it's our responsibility.

Um, we're not gonna say, oh no, we're we're not available or you're gonna have to call a private company.

Um that's we we're out there on the water.

That is the difference.

So you know, we we don't compete with anyone on anything.

That is not our goal.

It's Steve.

Oh, just going back to the private moorings that they asked the question about.

Do any of the so we don't have any restrictions on any of the private moorings?

Um, if someone came with like a hundred and twenty-footer, we'd have to figure out where to put that, yes.

But so each we have four different fields that we issue private moorings to.

And when you put up on the wait list, you can either apply for all four or one that you want.

And they they turn over at different rates because there's different amount of moorings in them.

There's different amount of rental moorings.

Right now, the main harbor is made up of 67% rental moorings.

So there's other huge turnover in the private mooring field out there because they're mostly rental, which go on if they're in an LLC for perpetuity.

Like we were, you know, people are kind of talking about the yacht clubs going on forever.

And LLC can go on forever.

That's why they're the idea of not letting the LLC's transfer ownerships came up.

Um the so the Breton Cove is mostly private moorings.

That is the highest turnover.

The spindle is next.

They uh they don't have as many moorings to Bretton Co.

But the the turnover, not excuse me, uh the point is next.

There's a lot of mooring turnover in the point.

The spindle is is a lot of private moorings in there, and that's why there's not a lot of turnover, but we issue as many as we can.

Um, most people that we're issuing to now are, you know, if they have a boat, they are chomping out the bit.

They I know exactly what size boat they are, they've let me know two years in advance, they know where they are in the in the list.

You know, we call these 18 people this week, and only you know, half of them even knew what we were talking about.

And you know, you've come up on the list.

Would you like to a mooring?

And a lot, you know, we get people who say, Oh, I've just been on the list because I've on the list.

I don't really have a boat, I don't really plan on getting a boat.

Um, it's a strange thing to stay on, but that for ten dollars a year they can dream.

That's why they do it.

Um, so private moorings are a huge part, and we we issue as many as we can.

When you know I started here, the there was all they were down about 175 private moorings.

We are also the private moorings are also empty.

There was no actively enforced ordinance on that.

You have to have a boat, you have to actually use the mooring.

And uh, and in that I've changed with just a couple simple ordinance changes, and it it really shows off.

You can see the amount of boats that are in the harbor now.

Um we we absolutely prioritize private moorings uh in this harbor.

That is that is a an absolute priority.

Uh under Mr.

Chair, under the if if the net if the ordinance passes to change to allow people to go from commercial to private, would that be able to happen in the new mooring field?

No, because that they they don't own the commercial moorings, they rent from the city for per year.

So those 20 moorings, they they rent from the city to put those boats on.

Do they go through the lottery every year?

Um we haven't we haven't had any turnovers the first year that we issued them.

So the at the end of the year, we always do a writer first refusal when we have people on the moorings.

If they don't, we will go through.

We we picked out a lot of people on that lottery.

We'll start calling down the names.

We run out of names to call, we can do another lottery or pick more from that lottery.

That's that we have that done outside of house, it's on a computer, so we can easily pull more names.

Why can't they switch over?

Um in that area.

So you're you're the the they don't own the permit or they don't they're not reciprocal of a yearly permit that they can rent.

The the switch of from commercial to private is if someone is a commercial permit holder and they're using that um permit as a private mooring, we're we're gonna allow them to switch.

The 20, if they don't own the city owns the permit.

I got it.

And they they get rented a with a contract for the year.

I understand.

So with this with this the switch from commercial to private, there's um there's definitely been a lot of interest in that because these people they flat out admit I bought the mooring to put my boat on it, and I'd like to you know obey the law.

And I we should.

I and I I talked to this to the CRMC about it, they totally agree that if it's being used as a private mooring, it should be class reclassing.

It's not owned by the person, it's owned by the city.

The permit has issues the yeah, the city issues the permits, correct?

Right.

Okay.

Because there's there's a confusion in the terminal.

Right, but yeah, a lot of people they that then this this is where we kind of came up with a lot of the problems.

People felt ownership of these permits.

I own this so I can sell it.

Um, and that was it was re-adjusted before my time in 2019 by the state.

Right.

Um, and that was I inherited that.

It was not dealt with with the former harbor master.

I did not deal with it for five years.

It's a heavy heavy lift, and we're just we're just getting a taste of it now.

So this is where you're gonna slowly start working on this, and uh and that's gonna be the next topic we're gonna work on.

Right.

It's is it is it a lot bigger than insurance?

Yeah, it's gonna be you mean if you can feel the feel the passion in the room.

So these are state territorial waters that we're operating in.

Those waters belong to the people of Rhode Island.

Correct.

And Newport has jurisdiction over those waters as a steward, right?

slowly start working on this and uh and that's gonna be the next topic we're gonna work on it's is it is it a lot bigger than insurance yeah it's gonna be you mean if you can feel the feel the passion in the room council consumer so these are state territorial waters that we're operating in those waters belong to the people of Rhode Islands correct and Newport has jurisdiction over those waters as a steward right and then within that we have a bunch of stewards in the room who work as in partnership with the city they've done a phenomenal job if we said CRMC your letter we don't care about it pound sand if we said the mooring ratios if we if we basically said yeah state we hear you but we're different and we're just gonna ignore what you say are they just gonna say okay that's fine or will we lose our ability to continue managing these territorial waters of the state I I cannot speak for the state but I would imagine we are going to have some hardships.

The CRMC does set the policy um I think the city solicitor would probably uh agree with that we need to work with the state in managing the harbor I've I don't think it's ever happened in in Rhode Island that a city is lot outside we're not going to deal with anything the state anything else all right well I want to thank everyone for coming in tonight uh obviously there's still a lot of work to be done and uh a lot more information to gather and decisions we made so uh I greatly appreciate uh everyone I came up and spoke um we listened to everything I got tons of notes here that we'll go back over and we'll work with the administration and continue on so stay tuned I'm sure there'll be uh more workshops down the road before we get uh get to a final decision so a little bit of the pay that feed you want to if we push back yeah if we push back the deadline of of uh november 15th are they gonna be able to pay their fees before the end of the year pay the great regular I would envision I'll talk to Steve but if you would do your renewal whatever you would do on the renewal and we would hold off on the insurance yeah that's how I would envision it.

Yeah we don't have any coming up with that policy uh sure okay all right uh thank you everyone uh special thanks to the waterfront commission as well uh for all the hard work and due diligence that they put into this as and we'll see you on the next