Good evening, everyone.

Welcome to the City of New York Shell Department of Development, Historical and Landmark Review Board.

We have a couple of things on the agenda, but first, uh if we have any minutes already, that's item one point one.

I don't think we have any for approval tonight.

Okay.

And then from there, we we do attendance, of course, yes.

Yeah, sure.

I'm being here.

Rosal Famante here.

Will Chia Elliott is out.

Jim Fleming here.

Keith Gordon is out.

Leanne Merchant here.

Belk is Ray's CUNY.

Here.

Don Richards.

Here.

And staff members with us today, Saraya Ben Habib, uh Deputy Building Official, Kevin Kane, Director of Planning and Sustainability, and myself, Benito Seha, Senior Project Manager.

Okay, we can start right in.

Uh item number two, public hearings, 2.1 application HLRB 52-2025 by Walter Nestler for certificate of appropriateness to construct a below ground pool and install a four-inch black aluminum picket pool, picket pool enclosure fence along with four foot high air green hedging planted outside the fence at 10 Manhattan Avenue, block 825 lot 51.

And in our R1 historic zone district, adjourned until further notice, so we're not going to hear that tonight.

And finally, there's a little bit also of Spanish revival, so it's a little bit of a blend of all of these.

We have the bright wide stucco with the dark trims, which is also similar to the tutor revival, and um the rafter tails, which even though around the time that this house was built, it could also be referenced as like a craftsman, American craftsman architecture.

Um you could also uh interpret it as being kind of like the scroll brackets from a Spanish architecture along with the stocco.

So these are the proposed elevations.

In terms of um the architectural style of the home, we are not proposing to change any of it.

Um what we're proposing to change is starting with the windows.

The um of the first floor windows have these very shallow elliptical arch.

Hello?

Okay, so we're planning on squaring those out, and because we don't think it's a feature that it's relevant to the main identity of like the historical identity of this house, and we just want to have a more consistent look throughout the home.

So starting with the front elevation, which is the top left in the screen.

We are adding a um a center window, and on the second floor, that center, three side-by-side windows.

Currently, there's only two, and there's a space in the middle, which seems a little empty, just waiting for something.

So we're completing that third window.

Then if we move over to the next elevation over, we are removing one window in the master bedroom where we're proposing full height cabinets on the other side, and the same elevation further to the right.

We are removing a door that currently leads to nowhere, which is the one in the middle of that wall to the right.

And so I think previously there might have been a deck there that was removed.

So I don't think that was an original deck from the property.

There's no signs to the architecture of the home that it was, so we would like to remove that opening altogether.

If we move over to the lower left elevation, which is the back elevation, we are adding a window.

Let's see if I can point this.

Yeah, so we're adding this window right here, which um it just to center the proposed location of the kitchen sink.

Um let me see.

So over here on the next over, we are removing very small window on the kitchen and just redoing the opening for the patio door that goes to the side yard, which is actually their main recreational yard since they don't have much space towards the back.

Um, and then I think that's about it in terms of window modifications.

Make sure.

Yeah.

So in terms of structural changes, uh the main structural change that we're doing to the exterior is proposing the enlargement of the carport.

So, as the Mr.

and Mrs.

Tineo have been going back and forth to the house, they did notice that the existing carboard is quite tight, so it's very hard to fit the entire of the car in it.

So, we're just proposing widening it by three feet.

So the shaded, the dark-shaded area, it's the new footprint of the carport we're proposing.

So extending it three feet to the side and then about nine feet to the back.

This would give them about a 14 by 22 feet carport or available parking space for their car, enough to open doors, walk around the car, and then also conceal the car for rain or snow.

In doing so, we are um having to redo three of the Doric columns.

So these currently there's two of them existing a little bit further to the left.

So we're shifting them all right, about three feet, and they're all will be new.

And this also goes hand in hand with um with a point that we're gonna talk about later, which is the tree removal, which some of the overgrown roots are pushing on the footings of those posts, so we would like to eliminate that risk altogether for that.

Okay, so in terms of finishes, I did bring some samples that they're available for review, starting from the roof.

Let's start top to bottom.

So starting from the roof, the existing home currently has asphalt shingles, so we're proposing the same asphalt shingles, Owens Corning.

It's the true definition series, which the shingle size is just slightly bigger than your typical GAF, which for a large home, it just reads a little bit better in my opinion.

I'm biased, and then um it's in the sleigh stone color, which is great with very few light grade shingles and hints of beige and blue.

So for this type of historical homes, tutor revival and colonial revival, slate is one of also like an optional type of roofing that they would use.

So we thought that bringing some of those cooler tones into this and bringing also some of the variation into the roof will help to the historical features of this home since right now the with the with a very flat stocco, and of course, we cannot really see what the original roof was like.

I think we counted about five or six layers of roofing that need to be replaced, but we do know that probably most likely with the dark contrast with the light stoke of the home that were um that was the original feature.

Moving down to the gutters, the house currently has no gutters, so we don't really have the original ones to compare it, but um, just basing my interpretation with the with the existence of the the rafter tails.

We want to stay true to that, and we're proposing a half-round black aluminum gutter, which um will just blend in with the black rafter tails and the black soffit and um fascia trims for the windows, the original windows, which most of them have been replaced at some point.

Um, unfortunately, they were replaced with just off-the-shelf colonial white windows.

Um we're planning on bringing back the original black frame double-hung window.

I'll talk a little bit more about the specific window, but the idea is to have double-hung black and then just a clean no-grill panels, which is also typical of the the classic revival.

Usually they would do the no grills on the first floor.

We want to keep it consistent throughout the entire house.

For the redoing of the deck, which currently is very very damaged, the railing and the actual deck are very rotted, so we will be replacing everything in its entirety and trying to bring the house a little bit to the 21st century without compromising its historical importance.

We are proposing a composite timber tech deck in terms of the color.

We want to bring some of the natural warmth colors, so we're going from the sample and also in the screen, it's called coconut husk, and it's very um teak-like warm.

So we didn't want to specify anything that was gray or just not very natural look, but we also want to give the homeowners the um the ability to just have something that is easy to maintain for the light fixtures.

Um we're sticking with a very traditional look, brass, which is a feature which is a finish that we find throughout the house, and for both the light light fixtures and also the door hardware, and finally for the main front door, and we're looking into um dark blue again, a decision just to bring another color so it wouldn't be so monochromatic, so black and white.

Yes, there's a panel right here as well.

So we want it to be really dark as well to stay through the original door.

Right now, it's black, most likely it was black.

We don't really know what the true color was.

So we want to start with we want to keep that stark in contrast between the door, the stocco, and all the trims.

Going back to the windows, excuse me.

So we're proposing ProVia, but Provia is an American brand.

They have um they're they're very customizable, they have a variety of series for our proposal.

We mentioned two series.

There's the Aries series and then the indoor series.

The Aries series is a wood clad window, and the indoor it's an old vinyl window.

So the proposal is to have the wood clot windows in the front facade, the street-facing side of the home, and then have the indoor on the sides and on the back facade.

Something that I would like to point out.

So in this in these photos, the um this one, so the the one with the little sofa in front of it, that is Aries, the rest is indoor.

So these from the exterior, this windows look almost identical.

This one that I have here, it's the indoor, and this would be the black finish that it has.

Unfortunately, it's a sample, and I cannot take off the screen, but you're free to come in and look at it closely.

But the exterior of the Aries is it's also clad in vinyl for protection, so the exterior look would be almost identical to the sample I have here.

One thing that I also like to point out about about Provea is that just in terms of efficiency, it's very it basically outperforms Pella or Anderson.

I also highly recommend it for historical projects when um when it's like budget conscious because the way the proportion of the of the styles and just the proportion of the window in general of the design of the grills and everything, it just it's very similar to a historical wood window.

Well, like I invite you to come see it closely because it has a lot of details and concealed themes that you wouldn't really find to be very clean in an old vinyl window.

And um finally, yes, I think though, and and I mentioned the efficiency, the and the yeah, okay, that's it for the windows.

Let's see.

Starting with the front door.

So the front door, as I mentioned before, very colonial revival.

It has these very elaborate trims that unfortunately you don't find in many homes today.

So we would like to keep all of that and just bring it back to life.

So we're keeping all of the trims, we're removing the the steel the storm door, and also the steel bars that are on the side lights, and the idea is again to bring all of this back to life, keeping the original door, keeping the original trims and replacing the only the glass for high energy glass for the patio side door that again goes out to their side yard, which is their main recreational yard out the kitchen, and we're just proposing to match the same series as the Provea indoor, so black and clean, and finally for the basement door, and which is accessed from the very back.

We're proposing a steel door with two-thirds glass, and then the the basically the profile of the bottom panel tries to match that of the main front door, and we're keeping it black again to match all the trims of the house for the railing.

Um we are proposing it a composite railing, so it is a little bit more sturdy than your typical vinyl sleeve that you buy off the hardware store, so it is a little bit more sturdy, more solid in terms of style.

We're keeping the original square baluster.

Um the original railing is very low, so of course, we need to bring it to today's code requirements, so it will be 36 inches high.

We'll keep the same design of the balusters, and then we're also in need to provide an additional intermediate support, which um let me just go back to this for reference.

So we would be needing to add an interior and intermediate support just between the between the posts in the porch, so we don't want to call attention to it, so we're just proposing to um cap it right at the bottom of the top rail, and then have the top rail round continuously on top of that post just to minimize its visibility, and then we'll continue with the with the with the colonial post for the stairs of the side of the side porch, so just the side porch.

I just want to point it out.

It's so this is the front of the house, this is the extension of the cardboard we spoke about before.

This is a bay window, and then this is an existing porch, but we're redoing the roof to just match the pitch of the original.

We don't know that this roof was probably added at some point, um, but we're just redoing it to match the pit and the at the pitch and the design of the the main house roof, and in doing so, we're redoing um the railing of the existing concrete stairs that are there just by uh matching the railing from the front, which has a colonial style.

And in doing so, we're redoing um the railing of the existing concrete stairs that are there just by uh matching the railing from the front, which has a colonial style.

And then in terms of finishes, um the last one is the cover of the HVAC condensers, which sit at the very back of the house.

These are proposed to be white, so they blend in against the white circle of the home.

They're metal, so it is important that they're resistant and low maintenance.

And the most important thing is that they are compatible with the ventilation requirements of the HVAC equipment that they're that they're specifying.

Proposed tree removal and landscape.

So currently there's uh six trees that um are being proposed to be removed.

Um I just noticed a little mistake.

So this tree actually won't be removed, the one that I'm hovering over.

So it's a total of six trees.

Disregard this one right here, starting with the one right in front of the house.

This is a very mature tree, which is diseased, and it has very big branches hovering on top of the house.

So we would like to remove it to avoid that risk.

And then we have five more trees along their driveway.

The first one is disease, the back fourth ones are have the root overgrown that it's pushing the asphalt up, and then the last two are actually pushing the footing of the two existing posts that are supporting the cardboard, which are right here.

And then we're proposing to um replace or plant additional trees.

So we have a total of eight coniferous trees, so the green giants, we have them along their main side main recreational yard, just between the sidewalk and their yard.

Um it's eight of them, about five to six feet apart from each other, and then we have two clusters of shrubs, one right at the beginning as you walk down orchard place, and then one toward the driveway just to keep the vegetation there low for visibility when you're going in and out the driveway.

And then finally, right here to the right, um, along the property line, we're also introducing five of them.

This is this section right here where the little hand is, that's where the covers of the HVAC equipment are placed.

And this is also where their main living room window is.

So although um you cannot see the the HVAC cover from their living room, the view does go directly into the the parking service of the neighbor.

So just to mitigate their visibility to the AV cheap HVAC equipment and the Tina's visibility to the cars and the parking surface.

We're just proposing a line again of the um the conifers, the green giants, five of them, same distance, so five to six feet apart.

And that concludes the historical part of the exterior presentation.

I did include in the back just the applic the original application that was submitted.

So if you guys have questions and would like to run through it or want me to reference it, I'll be happy to do so.

But questions.

Okay, thank you very much.

Uh well presented, and you certainly have covered everything.

Good.

Uh I just open the uh board for comments here.

Anyone uh have any concerns or I want to wait so we can say uh can you repeat that?

Oh, she just wants to uh see what the audience says.

I just want to wait to hear what the public comment is before I comments.

Uh okay.

The only thing I I would say is is uh just it's a choice of the the planking on the deck.

Uh usually it's wood, usually some kind of you know uh semi-mahogany, that kind of thing.

Oh um.

Uh which way is it going?

Straight out from the house, perpendicular to the front wall.

So it's going perpendicular to the front.

Okay.

So the joists right now are going parallel to the and I assume it's the uh six inch, the five and a half.

It's the six inch, and we are showing the um just a border all around to cap that the end of the yeah.

Okay.

And then uh really I have no other questions other than everything's like uh being repaired and and uh fixed up.

It needs to in a logical way.

And uh the the port cruchier certainly can use a little more room.

Uh and that seems fine on the lot.

A lot is is very generous.

And uh those are really uh oh the the only thing with the landscaping that I I would uh ask about is that the trees along orchard.

Uh how high are they?

Yeah.

So the good thing about the green giants, even though they're called giants, you can cap them so you can groom them in a way that you can cap them at ten feet, eight feet, like it depends on how you want them.

Yeah, yeah.

So as as long as the um building or traffic engineers, if they look at it, yeah, the planning board, uh agree with the site distances from the driveway.

Yeah.

Because it's not just you driving out, it's also traffic on the street.

I agreeing a car.

So we are placing it a little bit further.

Um what I like about these trees too, it's like we are placing it further into their yard because they're very fluffy.

Like they're very light as well.

They're not your your Italian cypress dense um tree, but yes, that's I only bring it up because it it can be a concern.

Total sense.

You don't want to spend money on the wrong tree and then you know Yes.

But good.

Um I had two two questions.

Um just to uh verify that you'd be using wood windows from the front uh elevation and also from parts of the house that can be seen from the street, maybe on the right side.

Um yes, so currently we are proposing there is some minimal vegetation here.

Currently the um the proposed is just the front facade for the wood clad, but yes, we can we're open to extending that to whatever window it's it's very visible from the street.

There may be more visibility on the right side, the right elevation right here, right?

Yeah, because it's a less so in the corner.

Yeah, less so certainly going towards the back to where uh uh your your your uh the areas to the back that's activity area.

Right.

This the second question I have with the removal of the trees, would we would the board be getting any kind of an arborist report in terms of just I believe that that was submitted already?

Maybe I just need to verify it with the owners, but I think this that we're we're introducing this to present it to you guys, but I think there's already uh a a more elaborate application on it.

Photos and uh reports, yes.

Yeah, I just think it was it it's not usual for us to have five in this case six trees.

Uh but if it the board has um uh some documentation that it's been looked at by an arborist who said these trees are either diseased, I looked at the photos and some of the notations on it.

That would be helpful.

Yes, they're definitely somewhere in the building.

Okay.

Thank you.

Actually, I'm gonna ask some questions just because um so just going back to the window, the front windows, and as Don mentioned, any side windows, any that can be visible from the street.

Now they're wood windows.

What are they clad with?

Vinyl.

Yeah.

So also I noticed when you were reviewing um the porch, the posts, um, the columns.

It's all being replaced with vinyl.

No.

Those the the railing, yes.

So they're not like they're solid composite, they're not your flimsy vinyl sleeves that you usually see on the hardware store.

It is a more solid, almost like more like a PVC solid composite.

Um, but the not the columns.

All the columns that we'll be replacing are like cast permacast, structural posts.

Okay.

So just going sorry, I'm not sure if you can hear me well, but yeah, just going back to the hand railings.

Yes.

Right.

So they will be taken we you will be replacing the wood.

Yes.

And putting in a PVC solid structure.

Okay.

Now with the columns, you said that some needed to you were saying, I'm sorry, you said that some were gonna be get changed or replaced.

Yeah, the ones for the cart port.

They they're shifting all of them.

And right now you if you drive by you will see them that they're starting to lean a bit.

So we're replacing those, but we're matching the existing ones.

So you're matching the style.

We're matching, yeah, but not the material, because they're currently wood and permacast is a type of composite, I think.

Yes.

It yeah.

Okay.

And then with regard to um the front door, I really like the fact that they're gonna expose that beautiful door and they're going to, you know, allow everybody to enjoy it.

So the front door area has an arch to it, if I'm not mistaken.

It has a very the transom on top, the very slight transom.

Right.

And then the two windows that you're um proposing to square off have a similar arch to it.

Right.

Yeah.

Right.

Which is probably I would think the style uh the way that they wanted it to appear, you know, the front door with this kind of transom art either side.

So has your client considered not squaring them off?

Um yes, we did discuss it, and we also got a few proposals for cut fully custom windows that will fit that arch.

And yes, they were we we were eager to see other options.

The reason why I decided that maybe would be a possibility to propose to remove it, it's because it is not consistent throughout the house.

Also, if you look at the let me see, let me go back.

We do have some windows on the first floor, like the bay window that does not have that arch.

Then you have a mid-second floor window that does have that arch.

So before because of the inconsistency but the front, yeah, first floor on either side of the door have the arch.

They do.

Yeah.

Above it, the the second floor, I noticed that it's squared off.

Yes.

Okay.

But the first floor on either side of the door have the arch that matches.

Yeah.

So maybe to consider keeping the arch on the two floor.

The two yes, I yeah, just stuck over the plan and keep the along with the door.

Yeah, the two side by side.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would think that too, because you have it's kind of modernizes the appearance.

If you're seeing the I noticed some of the side on sides of the house that had the arch and others didn't, that was uh strange, but okay.

Yeah, but it I yeah, that's a valid, a valid point, and um oh B.

I mean I'm we're talking about it now, but I'm happy to present it again.

One just one more question I have about the windows just to make it.

Yes, go ahead.

They're one over ones, not there's no style or ballister or or no style, no, just one over one.

One over one.

Yeah, yeah.

So have they considered potentially because some of the windows do have grids, have they considered they have considered that too?

It was kind of like the similar logistic because they had uh kind of like uh it was not consistent throughout, so it was more of like let's present what's truly preferable, and then from my point of view, it's like okay, if you do prefer this, I do need to make sure that it somehow fits with the with the historical element of the house.

Right.

So um to me it was more like okay for the for the colonial revival, you do have those non-grill windows double hung.

So yeah.

Yeah, this this house is such a mixture as you you know, very definitely and very well highlighted at the beginning, but there are several windows, the front that have those grids.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah, it's uh quite the silent.

That's one my question is from now.

So are you saying they're not gonna have the true divided or the grids in the front any longer?

Yeah.

But you are gonna have wood in the front for the windows, and also you'll consider having wood windows on the side on that side on the side, the Hamilton Abnus.

Yeah, the one that I guess faces Hamilton.

Yeah, because can we talk about the um the columns a little bit?

That some of them are gonna be replaced.

Is that what you're saying?

The cardboard.

Yeah.

Oh, just the okay, so the cardboard.

The ones that are gonna be rebuilt, shifted over.

Okay, and so those or because in the sheet it says white material wood.

For the what?

Sorry, which one are you looking at?

Um, it says it's like the third in the presentation.

Or here.

I it just says, oh, I know item number 11.

It says replace existing posts.

White and then it's just material wood.

Just then it says Oh, okay.

Oh, then you're gonna replace the wood with permacast.

Is that what you're saying?

Yes.

Is that a solid column throughout?

Or it is it's a structural one piece solid material component.

All the way the whole thing.

But it's a hollow in the middle.

Yeah.

Yes, like it can structural cast.

Uh it can be structural and and uh in permacast.

Yes, it can be structural in permacast.

So I think that like I was also flipping through the drawing, and I also saw that I had an older detail where I actually have a wood post inside of a hollow column, but the permacast specifically is structural, is is structural.

I've seen them and and use them actually.

I've seen them and use them actually.

They are structural.

Yeah.

I think the bigger problem, the bigger concern is that it's composite and it's not wood.

I think that's what I like.

Let's go back.

I'm sorry.

Um let's go back a second to the to the windows.

And I know they're wood.

The ones at least I'm talking about the ones that are gonna be wood, the front and the front and the side.

And they are clad with vinyl.

Yes.

They considered wood windows clad with aluminum versus vinyl.

We try to prevent anything, any artificial materials as much as possible.

Yeah.

Um is your question about vinyl versus aluminum?

I might actually have to look into that.

I yeah, I wouldn't want to give you an answer without fully checking.

No, I was asking if they'd even consider it.

So it's something that you I guess we'll speak to them about if at all.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

I wanna like if I had to from what I know about the windows, I would say not aluminum, I would say vinyl.

But yeah, I would like to go leave that open for confirmation.

I get it.

Does uh the company just make wood windows?

The their wood windows is the wood clad windows.

Yeah.

So if we yeah, so if we uh with no cladding.

I have done the pedal, the the pella all wood windows before.

Um yes, there they can be like three, four times the cost of the other ones, but yes, they've seen it for the we would need to change manufacturers.

Yeah.

Questions?

Shall we open it to the floor?

One more, sorry.

Yeah, go ahead.

So as I was thinking of the uh the I'm gonna say the porch floor.

I think you called it the deck floor.

Okay, we'll find it.

Yes, and it's tracks.

It's timber tech, which is composite similar.

Um have they considered replacing it with wood, which is what's there.

And no considered but yes, but it's open to consideration.

Okay, good yes.

It'd be nice if it was, because it's it just uh and they have different degrees of it.

I'm just talking out of the Yes.

And and again, like uh my preference is TimberTech.

I do feel that Trex is a lot more blend, homogeneous in design.

But it's not wood.

It's it's yes, it's plastic, it's composite.

It's actually uh doable.

Yeah, as opposed to the expensive one and the low end one.

But you want to look at it.

I think it's very similar to the windows, unfortunately.

Like I think back in the day your wood window was the window that you would put.

There was no other option.

Same with the deck.

I think that if you want a deck that is very, very like durable, you would need to go for like a mahogany or something like that.

And that now the price is it's a very luxury finish nowadays, unfortunately.

Yeah.

Okay.

I had something else on the um deck.

The um the fence or the railing.

So that is made out of a composite that is like a PVC like feel to it.

Yes.

So plastic.

It's easier and feel, I know that's the uh you see these railings, they're just a hollow plastic tube.

And they can really feel horrible.

These are a little heavier.

A little heavier.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What's the kind of life expectancy?

Okay.

So it is solid.

Yeah.

Yes.

So the ones that you would see at the hardware store, like each ballister is hollow.

The top rail is hollow, the post sleeve is hollow.

Um this this is solid.

It's still plastic though.

It's not wood.

Yeah.

And your cover on the on the uh H on the uh air conditioning is it says metal, or I think you said metal.

It is, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Covered in plastic.

No, I think it's just coated.

Yeah.

And and so in the in the roof, you're going to introduce you said I think softer colors.

So for the roof, yeah.

I'll go to I guess the original, the original photo, which is not a great example.

Um since we didn't really know what the original wood was.

The way that I was thinking about this is I do want to keep the contrast.

And then in terms of the historical styles, just keeping slate in mind.

So I actually, this is the roof I have in my house.

And that's extra information.

But what I really loved was that it does have those like very subtle blues and beighes that resemble like a slate roof.

Of course, they're two completely different things.

So I thought that that would be consistent with the historical fact that I wanted to keep that contrast between the white stoke and the dark roof.

And you're making the door blue.

And we're making the door blue.

Very dark.

So I do want to point out it might even look black here.

I don't know.

But it is it it will look blue on a sunny day and almost black on a cloudy day.

Yeah.

But it does introduce that additional color.

Because right now, if you walk by the house, it almost like you're looking at a black and white photo.

So we just wanted to add a little bit of warmth and just some hints that would be.

You've described it very well, and you can see it on the on the sample there.

Yeah.

And pretty much by going uh you're switching now, sorry, to the carport.

When you you're adding another three feet wide, um that and I don't have it sort of the image in my in my head, but how does that off is there any kind of offsetting uh imbalance, I guess that that comes from that?

So let me see.

Maybe this is a little bit more.

See what's the best well?

I think I know what you're saying, that it's not as consistent with one of the other driveways in the in the historic district.

Yes, so I did do my drives and I was curious because their driveway is so tight that I was curious.

I mean, I of course I didn't walk up and measure them, but I did see regular cards park under them.

Um and in terms of the proportion of the house, it's so large, and we're adding three feet, it really does not affect the the heaviness of that side of the house.

Didn't have to open doors in a uh carriage.

Yes.

Out of curiosity, they don't have to do any repair to this front steps.

The front steps are concrete and they're the they're fine.

They're fine, they're in one piece, yes.

Okay.

They do need to pressure wash it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or walkway, nothing.

So the walkway, yes, that thank you.

That's a good point.

So there is a walkway, and right now is buried under um soil.

So I think they recently before they purchased the house, what we have heard is that they removed an oil tank in the front of the yard and they move all the soil over and the pavers, there's a walkway that it's still there.

So we are planning on um burying it, just digging it out.

And I think if you I don't have it here, but if you look at the listing photos of the home, it's still there.

Um but yeah, the diggers didn't do a great job to put in the soil back into the hole.

Well, hopefully they find everything in nice.

Yes, and I think that would be another subject if we find that we need to work on that path.

Why don't we open it to the uh floor?

Uh with uh the we're just gonna open it up officially.

Please come up to the podium.

Uh oh, I'm uh introduce yourself.

Um Alena Harrison Cowie, 70 Hunter Avenue.

Um I just have just a couple of things I want to say.

This is the historic district, and um it is historic because of the features, and most of the features are natural, and I'm hearing a lot of plastic, plastic floor, plastic railings, plastic columns.

Um and that kind of defeats the purpose of the historic district.

The uh the idea of the historic just is to um maintain to protect to keep those those features.

Uh also the windows, the vinyl clad is shedding shivers up my spine.

Um I I've I've said this a few times now, and I I'm wondering if the board can consider at least the front being all wood windows.

It makes it a difference.

It's the reason we are an historic district.

Um we are listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

We like to keep that too.

Um and I I know it's an expense, I understand that, but I um I think I think it should be it should be considered.

A lot of plastic is no longer historic.

And you'd kind of defeat our purpose of being a historic district.

Thank you.

I agree.

Thank you.

Hello, everybody.

Margaret Chadwick at 95 Hamilton Avenue.

The windows I'm I'm concerned about, primarily because I'm shopping for them right now.

And you're going to see me in June.

And I was pretty sure that vinyl clad wood is not allowed.

At least that's what I've been led to believe.

Because I picked windows out, and then I found out no, now I have to go shopping again for aluminum clad.

So I I just wanted to kind of confirm that, if nothing else, to see if I can then purchase the ones that I had chosen.

The second thing is I'm a little concerned about the carport extending nine feet all the way down the house.

I think that's kind of odd in my head.

I I can't think any other historic home.

Maybe they are, that has like a like a tunnel running down the whole left side.

And it would be seen.

It's not in the back.

It when you come down orchard, it would be very, very visible.

Um the three feet I don't have a problem with.

It is tight, very tight, and if they keep it looking the same.

But the the nine-foot carport to me just I don't know, it just doesn't resonate.

But um, you know, I'd love the answer about the vinyl clad um because I know people do come.

Um, I really don't care.

But um, you know, I think you know, price-wise, it's a few dollars.

But I think we need to be consistent.

Um the last thing I want to mention is I think when we start going forward, we need to put something at the end of this is what we approve, because we approve a brand, a color, and a style.

And something needs to be said at the end.

This is what is being approved.

If there's any deviation or change, you must apply again.

Because I don't know if it's being done on purpose or by accident.

They're walking out of here thinking, we got siding, and they walk out and they've done a different color, a different style, and a different brand.

Probably a different style color and brand that you would not have approved.

We've seen it happen with the windows.

So I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but what it's doing, it's watering down your decision making and your power when people just walk away and do something completely different.

So again, maybe just the wording that we put into it.

This way we have some recourse when we go back to the homeowner and say, why did you do it?

And they say, Oh, I didn't realize you didn't say blue.

We just said maybe gray, you'd say, but it says right here.

So just a thought.

Thank you.

Yes.

We understand that problem completely.

It's happened.

We're not the policeman.

The building department has a process involved with everything else they do.

And they usually see that type of thing and it comes back.

Or somebody gives the building department a call, that type of thing.

But there is something written at the end of these meetings.

Yeah, there's always uh minutes and there's always a uh resolution.

Well, I would just add that uh you know historically when an applicant presents an application, their materials are part of a record, right?

And so that record is is what is binding.

If they deviate from what they submitted, then the building official has the authority to take action.

Um but if there's a if there's something that changes during the course of a presentation, that's something that we would typically note in a resolution.

So historically that that's the way we've done it, so that's why there maybe was a lack of details in the resolution because it was part of the record itself separately.

However, we agree with you.

And actually, we have been recently now changing the way we do the resolutions to do exactly what you're saying for an application uh like that's before the board tonight.

Um there's a lot of elements, and uh I commend Benito for for doing a very diligent work of uh putting it together for for applications of this nature.

Um but but I just wanted to let you know that we hear you and we are making that change with our process.

Yes.

Good evening, I'm Gordon Bell, 51 Hamilton.

So I have a front row seat.

I sit directly across from this home.

And we love the Dardans who have left our community, but we are welcoming the Robinsons with open arms.

The bottom line is uh as Margaret would would mention to you, there are a bunch of us who are habitual collaborators around here.

We work together, we figure out things together, and I love the tone and the expertise.

I appreciate you guys.

I was on the IDA board for 10 years ahead of all this building.

We're at a lot of late nights to figure out how to get the right thing to happen.

And we do the best we can, right?

So here we are.

The wood windows.

I have wood windows.

They're true divided light.

They were required, they were pella custom, they were a fortune.

They were a fortune.

This is my third painting.

It's 2026.

I got them in like a restaurant 2000.

So we burden people when we make them use wood and they have to be maintained.

Four degree, 12 degree winter, sideways snow.

Wood gets beat up.

Now the hard part is you guys have the job of figuring out how to use the right materials the right way at 60 feet or 70 feet for the right visibility.

I don't envy your job.

But I welcome the Robinsons.

Your budget, you've done a fine job presenting.

This is this is a great night for New Rochelle.

This is what we do.

And let's figure out with your expertise what has to be wood, why, why not?

Things keep evolving, right?

I I started Wall Street a long time ago.

All the instruments have changed.

We didn't even do it in dollars when I was there.

We started off with like one eighth, two eighths, three-eighths, all right.

The whole world has changed since then.

The most important thing for me is that they have usability in their yard, they maintain a beautiful yard and a beautiful home.

I wonder if they're taking down enough trees.

In my time at 51 orchard, we've had several more diseased trees, and we had kids running around.

Three kids now in college.

I know Leon, we've seen this show together.

We've tried to help these children along their way.

We do the best we can while we have them here, but we need to provide a home that people can live in.

I think maybe you need to look at how you're gonna use your yard and think about taking down a couple of trees to create a yard.

You got a lot of obstacles in your yard.

And I know we had trees that were so huge, hundred thirty-year-old tree, that it was leaning toward the house and lean one was leaning toward the neighbor's house.

Before it gets bad, you want to get rid of it.

You don't want to wait till it's fallen apart and go, hey, wasn't my responsibility.

So teaching folks, yeah, be aggressive and smart, and we want to have your back, they're gonna plant new trees.

That's exactly the right thing.

And so I'm gonna say thank you for your time, thank you for your consideration.

As one fellow volunteer for New Rochelle to the others, thanks for doing the deep digging, and I appreciate you guys putting in all the effort.

I know what it took to do our homeover, and I really appreciate what you're doing.

So God bless.

Thank you.

Should I respond or if you have something, please?

Yeah, I mean, I just want to note that um all the comments are valid.

I think that's especially the one about vinyl and composite.

Um I'm also you know, here on behalf of the homeowners, and I do know what you know what's possible, what's not, what might be worth putting out there for consideration.

And I do want to clarify that at no moment we do want to take away, we do not want to take away from any of the historical beautiful features that this has how that this house has.

Um the other item, I don't know if this would uh help put things into perspective for the extension of the cardboard, um, the new extended cardboard's 22 feet for um just to have something to compare it to, like an uh my CRV, it's 15 feet long, uh pilot on Honda Pilar, which is what they have, it's about three feet longer than that.

A regular standard side pickup truck, it's 20 feet, so we're really not offering them much extra space than for a single car.

Um it's also on the side of their recreational backyard, which in reality it's their side yard.

So um it is the the space that would be um it be taken something away from it, it's really their yard.

Uh and from the view from the street, it yeah, the three feet, which at the end of the year.

We take into account what we take into account everybody's opinion here.

Um generally saying it's a a little bigger than a parking space in Sabin Shop.

Yes.

It's not really that much bigger.

It sounds like a lot of things.

I could say that it's co-side.

Yeah, yeah.

How how what's there now?

What's this uh sorry what much are you extending from what's there now?

So right now, let me go to the it's about nine feet to the back.

Right now, their existing cardboard, it's about eight feet.

It's really the width of their um of their front porch.

For a buggy.

Yeah.

It's for.

It's pretty far in.

Um, let me see.

So right now it's 41.7, it looks like just based on the beginning of the beginning.

Sir, I'm sorry, there's there's there can't be comments from the audience.

Thank you.

All right, yeah, beginning of the cardboard, um 41 feet away from their property line.

So, yeah, not from the sidewalk or anything, just from the property line.

Okay.

Would it be possible for you to get it?

If any if it if the chair wants to allow people to speak again, they have to come before the microphone so people watching the recording can hear it.

If we could just get a picture of another.

Margaret.

So you have Margaret.

Yes, the people can't hear unless you're behind the microphone.

Oh, okay.

I don't she has pictures submitted of other houses with similar porches.

None directly paying attention to the portcochair on the House.

But whether it's relevant or not, just because it's longer for uh practicality in these days, uh, as was discussed earlier with some items.

Uh look through the pictures, that's all I can say.

This um if you have an example, tell it, but uh 20 feet is not a is a car.

That's the only thing I can say.

Um I'm not averse to it.

I mean, again, we're here to make it work.

You make a garage for your house, it's going to be 22 feet.

Yeah, so a typical two-car garage is a 24 by 24 footprint.

So we're removing the thickness of the wall there and making it twenty-five.

And and and just to jump aside, not this project, but it the this project is another one of the examples.

We are constantly looking at the wood clad vinyl problem.

And we're trying to formulate something.

I I've talked about that with Kevin and and uh Benny many times uh about because of modern materials and the the the uh aspect that the the gentleman post uh brought up of constant maintenance over years, you've got to paint it every time.

Uh we're looking at that.

But um I feel sometimes that if the windows are quality product, and this is not being related to this project, except for that we're talking about windows.

Um if the windows quality, I think it's a pretty good idea to have the same window around the whole house.

And that I I can change that opinion per house.

But um if that's the window, uh it's a good it's a good company.

Um and again, the painting problem, the color problem, uh won't ever come up again.

You know, it uh I think it's um important to have all windows put back as wood.

But uh that seems to be quite a um budget breaker on almost every job.

And uh that's why it's in discussion all the time.

Uh I I just wanted to say that, not related to this job for anybody's opinion, but we are looking at that.

So would you like us to take a vote, or do you want to go back to your your uh clients and discuss with them some of the things that we've raised, some of the issues or concerns we've raised.

I didn't know I have an option.

Well, I mean it's different, so if the vote would be would be final.

Will be final.

Yep.

So you've heard some some concerns about certain issues, so you're welcome to adjourn the application and come back and report back to the board on what you've decided on.

I would feel okay with hearing your votes, but I would also like to know what they feel like explained something we move to.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Explain to that question.

Yeah, I guess just a question from about one of the comments, which um what was the issue between aluminum clad and vinyl clad?

Was there a difference?

Like one of them is vinyl clad is not as generally not found acceptable by the board.

But aluminum clad is the board does approve aluminum cloud.

Okay, so then we get to the question.

They do not if they do not take a vote now, then we we would do this whole process with a new design, or how does it work?

It it's really up to you.

You can take the time between now and the next meeting to decide how you want to, you know, if you want to stick with the original proposal, if you want to amend it in certain ways, and then you come back next month and report back.

You say either we kept it as is or we decided to change this, we decided to change that.

Would you still you won't have to notice the neighbors again, you won't have to go through all that.

Um circling back where we left it.

And you can come back, you won't have to do the whole presentation again.

Just come back and tell the board how you address the concerns everywhere.

Okay, I think that's very reasonable.

And would we be asked they also mentioned some feedback from you?

So if it's not just the windows that we would like to revisit, the railing, all of that, if we could also bring in the change your stand, then tell Kevin about the change.

Yeah, I would say you know, you've heard the comments tonight.

This is recorded.

If you missed anything, you can just go back and watch the tape.

I hopefully you've heard all the concerns that the board has.

Um if there's anything else, the board you know, may make contact myself and Benito and we can convey that to you.

And we can certainly, you know, continue to have a dialogue between now and the next meeting and I think that's a great plan.

Reconvene to the next meeting.

Great.

Yeah.

Okay.

Uh I think we'll uh we'll just adjourn this meeting till the next one.

We don't have to take a vote on that, do we?

Adjourn this application, yeah.

Yeah.

No, no, no.

No, we don't have to take a vote.

We're adjourning this uh application till the next one.

So this application is adjourned to the next month's meeting.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Okay.

Call the next item, Jim.

Shall we do the call the next item?

Yeah, I just was wondering what it's okay.

Uh we're up to the city council referrals, old new business discussion items.

Item number three, uh not for public comment.

Uh item 3.1 planning board referral regarding application PB 3-2026 by Clayton Mattis for site plan approval to convert an existing non-conforming office building to a place of worship with a ground floor sanctuary for 191 occupants at three of the boulevard block 815, lot nine, and R1 historic zone district.

So you may uh recognize this site and application.

It actually was before you, um, but based on uh updated interpretation of the code, um it's actually properly before the planning board.

They did not proceed with the prior approvals that they had received.

Um and so they're back essentially with the uh same proposal more or less.

They are uh proposing to, as you may know, this is currently occupied, it's it's under an office classification, it's uses offices.

Um, and they are going to, as previously proposed, utilize the space for uh religious services.

Um it more or less is consistent with what you had previously reviewed.

Uh however, they have a valet parking plan, which I don't think that they had included before, I don't believe.

Um it's it's before you now kind of going the other way around.

This is this is not for you to approve.

It's really just before you being sent to you by the planning board for a referral.

So I have a question, I can ask one.

Okay, so from what I understood that you said, nothing is changing except they have a valet parking plan now.

Uh they did have a parking plan.

When the Sun Chari sleeve.

Occupied.

Well though, why is it half you know parking space?

Okay.

I thought before, if I recalling correctly, the last time that they came before us, it had to do, I think we might have referred it, or there was something having to do with the parking.

They wanted to increase the parking in the back.

Maybe it's they were tidying up and they still are tidying up the the parking lot in the back.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

And otherwise it will be a charge.

Yes.

Which is how they came before us, and they said that it was going to be a charge.

Exactly.

So this hundred and I think you said 91 occupants, that's just people sitting.

That is not office spaces.

No, no, no, no.

No.

So this, you know, um largely the aesthetic changes are largely out of the view uh from the right-of-way.

So the aesthetic changes would be in the back because of the parking lot situation.

I'm just curious how they're going to get that many parking spots in the back when the 95 is right there.

It's not that big back there.

Well, I mean, the they have a plan ultimately.

Um, I mean, that'll that will be part of the planning board's review uh for site plan, and then you know, finally the uh building department has to review valet management plans to make sure that they function.

Well, I'm concerned with the with the impact that many cars, assuming that it all goes through will have with the neighbors.

I mean, not related to a church, not related to the activity because people come and go, but the in and out and whatever it is that's gonna transpire back there.

Um additionally, while they wanted to increase some parking spaces, and again, uh my recollection is that it wasn't that many, or have maybe they were gonna have valet parking, but off-site.

This is a you know to me, this is something different.

I mean for this period of time from when they got the last approval, they have been, I'm going to make uh an assumption, no activities there, but they know that they need 191 spaces occupancy.

And then about 55 spaces, I think that plan said.

That seems really significant.

And while it might be classified as a commercial space because originally it was a um single family home, and then it became um what neighborhood knew is little jewels, uh little kind of school.

Yeah.

Um and now it's gonna be a church, and of course we understand that we can't prevent churches coming in, and that's not my intent.

But certainly it's it's it's overwhelming, it would overwhelm that space, that area, and the neighbors.

That's my feeling on it.

And it looks like they want to make a couple of changes here and there, um, maybe to the side on the side of the property.

Yeah, I think there was some minor changes with the walkway and staircases, ADA accessibility and things like that.

I mean, I listen, it this is just for you to give a referral, so you know.

That's what it is.

I mean, my my my view sense is that it's part.

Do you have more information about this parking arrangement?

I well it's unclear to me whether this is gonna be some elevated thing.

Sometimes when they say no.

Oh, and so somebody's gonna drive the car into all those spaces and be able to get the car out.

There's no flow.

That's not an elevator.

No, no.

And and that's the and they're not top on right.

Like a space with a but let's just lower it a little bit so we can see those spaces.

So here's the thing.

So I I understand, you know, it's on Sundays, which would be the biggest um uh uh population of people going in.

And they'll park them in those locations so that the valet would come and then park the car.

There is no flow, right?

To really turn around.

I mean, I'm not really sure how that'll happen.

So in my mind, I'm thinking maybe you know, some people will try to grab their cars because that is the nature of what some people will try to do, especially if they are able to park right in front.

I just think that it's a little chaotic and it's chaotic in a residential neighborhood.

Um again, nothing necessarily having to do with the church, but that type of a parking is is too much.

It's just too much.

I mean the then I mean that's just my opinion.

I agree.

I hear you, but you you're also mentioning the church, and so we have to review religious land uses differently.

I think we've um it's the planning board and they have to convince them.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, they're just asking you for for your referral.

So it's it's I mean, this is all stuff that we can we can know to them.

Yeah, and I'm sure it's something that they're gonna be looking at.

The parking has to be completely explained to them and how it's gonna function.

It there looks like there's no flow, like how can you even get the car out?

Yeah, you'll have to feet, which is required all maneuvering out of the space, no hospitals, gray space, uh one zero tower got the backing to be moved out with how value parking walk.

How many cars can fit on that gray space?

Well, I'm saying I I don't I'm not too happy.

I wouldn't be very happy about this if I lived next door.

And then all of a sudden you have 55 cars.

Uh the border of the entrance.

Uh of the two.

Two or three.

So next door is a commercial building, it's not the house.

Yep, it's outside the it's outside the pillars.

And is it outside the pillars?

If you're facing if you're facing that structure on the right side, outside the pillars is um an apartment building.

It's like maybe five or six stories.

Right.

On the left side, there is a home.

There's a home right across the street, you know, kind of diagonal to where the Dollar Tree is.

Well, that yeah, that's um, you know, and there are homes there of which they'll all be impacted.

Um the one right next to it.

I don't disagree.

And and and this is you know, really something I'll stress with the with the planning board.

Um, but it it again in this case it's not like we're talking about somebody that's running a catering hall uh or or something of that nature.

The the Supreme Court, you know, gives some deference to religious land uses.

So that has to be that that's something that the planning board will really have to have contemplate with.

I'm just letting you know you know, for your information, um, that they are treated differently than another use that may come in.

Um to you know, you'd really need to scrutinize how the actions may impact um a group's ability to practice their faith.

So it's it's just I hear everything you're saying, it's just there's another caveat that the planning board needs to look at when they scrutinize the the proposal.

Yeah, so let's just refer it and uh well you have to see what they can do.

That's what they answered.

That's for a referral.

Um the question is is it negative positive neutral?

That's for you all too.

Um for myself, it's negative.

Me too.

Okay.

Mine's kind of neutral because uh uh just logically I could see what they're trying to do with the four parking spaces and four deep.

Uh it's a complicated, it's gonna be a madhouse, if I may say so.

Uh doing it.

Uh but let them make their argument at the planning board.

It's the best I could say.

Neutral on it.

I'm negative on the that parking looks like an issue.

Two negatives, two neutrals.

Not two negative, three neutrals because uh Rosemary was neutral.

Well, I need a motion.

We need a vote.

Two negatives and three neutrals.

Okay, yeah, okay.

So what's the answer?

Negative to neutral or my neg or neutral.

Three negatives, uh three neutrals, two negatives.

Well, what I'm saying is so the neutrals are because you don't you don't want to the neutrals are because you're not really concerned, the neutrals are I'm trying to understand the neutrality.

Do you think it's okay?

Not okay.

Just for our referral.

I mean, if I said it was okay, it would be okay.

I'm just saying let them make their argument.

No, no.

I'm not trying to I'm not trying to argue about it.

I'm just trying to understand our answer.

The other neutrals.

Yeah.

So that then maybe you sway um the two of us.

Well, if the if the planning board has very specific I can hear you and argument about how they feel about this.

Um we're not really judging on any work being done on the property itself, but if it's a parking issue and there's some you know, overwhelming issues about the parking lot I mean, we do have some kind of planning uh 10 here.

Uh but but the planning board is the one who sees the whole picture and makes the decision.

You're not able to send it to them saying that the majority voted as neutral of the board, and there were two um negatives?

As opposed to completely neutral or completely negative.

Well, I mean the uh a resolution would reflect the vote.

Okay.

Okay, the resolution will reflect the vote.

Yep.

Okay.

Isn't there guidelines that about parking in the situation like this?

But it's a true thing.

That's why they're at the end of the day.

It's a religious organization.

Well, yeah, I mean that but nonetheless, there yes, there's a they they need to provide a valet management plan that as part of their uh as as they obtain their building permit, they need to satisfy that with the building department.

So there's much more uh in terms of logistics that gets scrutinized by the building department before they issue the building permit.

Or building permit or certificate of occupancy.

Um then just before we told the value parking at that time.

It would be reviewed who's doing it, how it's done.

Yeah, there's a way to go.

There's a way to go with this application on on every uh city board or approval agency.

Uh so I I was saying let's refer them, get them get them into the planning board and make the arguments.

Or make the demonstrations, which is the most important thing.

Okay.

No public comment.

Does somebody want to make a motion?

Uh I I'll make a motion that we refer it to the planning board.

Uh as the vote was uh we we've expressed.

Uh if you want to keep it, anybody else changing it at the at this time?

Three neutrals.

Well, I just is there a motion in a second.

If there's a second, I'll second second in.

Yeah.

Neutral.

Uh no.

No.

So this is a motion for a neutral recommendation to the planning board.

Is there a second?

I know against, but is there any other suggestion on what we we could expect that come out of this?

Maybe that'll help make this decision.

We can be five negatives.

Yeah, and they're still evaluated.

I just think that the you know they'll take our opinion because we're the HLRB.

Whether or not that will carry a significant amount of weight, I have no idea, but at least they'll you know, because they're gonna say, what is the HLRB think this is gonna be in the in the historic district?

Well, just the gate right.

It's the gateway, it's the gateway of the historic district.

I mean, I would like a contrary to the you'd like us to be unanimous in some way.

No, I don't need I don't want you to be unanimous.

I would like a resolution, but regardless of what the resolution says, we can still convey the sentiment that was provided here from all the board members to the board.

The board is is very concerned about how the valet parking is working.

Uh it should be demonstrated clearly to the planning board and the building officials.

Uh the um uh HLRB has nothing really uh added to say after its uh previous visits for the building.

Uh but the concern of the board and certainly uh uh visibly the neighborhood uh has to have it demonstrated that this is a uh um what's the word uh I'm sorry uh no negative or adverse effects on the on the uh neighborhood uh to the satisfaction of the uh city boards, city approval agencies.

I mean that's the best I can put it.

Okay.

Is anybody gonna second the neutral?

And we have a well we have a don't we have a I don't know a neutral to negative uh not it's whatever you neutral people can just second it then we can go and our vote of three uh two negative and three neutral can get done.

Go ahead, Don.

Or can we vote when we have a no let Don second it just got them okay?

All in favor I any opposed?

Just saying we have a yeah opposed.

Okay, thank you.

Welcome.

But you're still that is it for our agenda if anyone wants to make a motion to adjourn?

No, it's not open to the public.

Adjourn the meeting.

Oh does anyone make a motion to adjourn?

Close the meeting.

Adjourned.

Thank you.

The meeting is adjured.

Second.

Alrighty.