Good evening, everyone.

Historical and landmarks review board.

Tonight's public meeting and hearing is Wednesday, May 13th, 2026.

And we are in the council chambers.

The board was really um very saddened to hear of the passing of one of our members about two weeks ago, uh Keith Gordon, uh who contributed so much to this board.

Uh I know myself I could always look over and see this very uh calm and uh uh uh assured countenance on his face whenever you know controversies or or uh problems came up or decisions were needed.

Uh uh our board was very saddened to hear this as as as the administration is also and uh we are very sympathetic to his family and uh uh are very sad to see him uh not here anymore.

Um so with that uh Keith, thank you very much for your work.

And uh we'll think of you every meeting.

Uh and with that, we'll move on to the uh the first item, which is approval of minutes.

There are none, so we can go right into the public hearings.

Oh, roll call, I'm sorry.

Uh yeah.

Uh Rospo Famante.

Here.

Luci Elliott.

Here.

Jim Fleming, here.

Leanne Merchant.

Here.

Belk is Ray's CUNY.

Here.

Don Richards.

Here.

The staff members with us today.

Uh Kevin Kane, Director of Planning Sustainability, and myself, Benito Seja, Senior Project Manager.

Great.

We have a quorum.

We can proceed.

Uh we have no minutes, uh, so we are going to go into uh the public hearings.

Uh we have an item 2.1 application HLRB 5-2026 by Walter Nestler for a certificate of appropriateness to construct a below ground pool with a paved area surrounding it and to install a four-foot black aluminum picket pool enclosure fence along with four-foot high evergreen hedging planted outside the fence at 10 Manhattan Avenue block 826, 825 lot 51 in Arwen Historic Zone District.

It's been a germ for a couple of months, and I think the the board and and uh uh development department have decided that uh we should take a vote in whether to uh just have them come back when they're ready and we will remove it from the agenda.

Uh do uh I have a motion to do so.

I motion to have the application removed.

Application HLRB 5-2025 by Walter Nestler.

Second.

All in favor?

Any opposed?

Okay.

That's good.

They'll come back when they're ready.

And uh I just can't keep it was on for a long time.

Uh uh the next uh I don't believe they're here yet.

Applic uh application 2.2.

Uh is that uh Mr.

Taneo?

Are they here?

They're not here.

And they're not here yet.

So we're gonna uh uh with your graciousness, we're gonna go to uh item uh 2.3 application HLRB 5-2026 by Nishelle Arjun for a certificate of appropriateness to construct a raised patio and detached garage in the front yard of an existing one-family dwelling at 14 the Boulevard.

Block 827, lot 42 in our win historic zone district.

And we're looking for a certificate of appropriateness.

I'm the architect for um dream um for 14 the boulevard.

The proposed work is for garage and patio.

So this here is a photo of the building from the front existing as it is um uh probably a month less than a month ago.

And um what we're what we're trying to do, right?

Uh what we're doing right is um originally we started here with the project where um uh Ms.

Kareem was trying to create a patio in front of his house.

And um then he got stopped by uh he didn't get a vote.

Um he didn't have a permit at that moment in time in which uh we decided that we're gonna well he enrolled me to to do the project and creating a new patio wall.

The project where the house is actually uh on a hill and and then the patio was gonna be um outside his house and extended into the front yard.

His house is actually situated where if you can look in this, it's a the house is actually on the back property line.

And at the front, there is um there's a small patio area that exists.

He was proposing to actually create extend the patio out so he can have a little bit of room to um uh sit out in the front yard because he doesn't have no front um rear yard.

The um there's a slope at the front of his building or his house, and um it there's a step that actually is kind of high.

So the house is at the back, and you see it's at the back, and where the lining of the houses that's neighboring is like further up front.

So he was gonna propose the area here to have um uh little um patio area to be put in.

So this is the original, this is the house with the original patio that's on the front here.

This material over here is all the original patio, and then he has a driveway that goes up.

This here was the proposed area of construction that he was gonna do with a new patio.

So as you can see on the next photo, right?

The wall height where this the lay where his level of his house is is at this height, which is probably like more than eight feet to the bottom of where the yard area is, is about eight feet.

And he was gonna contain the retaining wall here to hold the dirt in and create the patio.

And um I was gonna use um a retaining wall blocks, as you can see.

So this here is the original building photo, original house photo from like uh Google and 2020 uh 2012.

So it was that at that back area where the original patio was, they had um a railing there and a steps that goes down that eight feet onto the ground front area.

So this is the neighboring house at this location, and his house is set back further than everything else.

So he was in this little area which he would filled it and he put up a uh retaining wall to um create the patio.

These are we looked at the other adjacent houses, see the styles, his house, the cape.

This one is a colonial revival, um, and this is his neighboring house on the right, and this is the house, his neighboring house on the left.

And they're both pretty much set floored compared to his house.

And this is the houses across the street.

And basically most of these houses are have their garages set to the back and on adjacent to the property line or adjacent to the house.

Because his house is situated so far back, and in discovering that his um he has a shed that's uh on the on the patio or the the patio area, the original patio that's not legal.

And um, so he was using that for storage.

So then it came up that we're gonna decide to put in a garage because this you gotta move the shed because it's not illegal.

So we decided we're gonna put in a garage.

So our proposed work, well, here's the original building, our proposed work was um is to create the patio, extend it out, and then put the garage and have it connect up to their driveway.

So that's our proposed work for replacing fixing the the retaining wall, plus putting in a patio, and plus having um a garage to replace his shed that he was using.

So this is the bigger picture of it.

You got the picture picture of the this is the original paver area, and we're just gonna repave it with new.

But here's the raised patio, which is actually not raised, it's really the same level as the existing house.

It's really just because there's a drop, eight foot drop in the front yard, that's why we're calling it raised.

And then we propose the garage.

So the raised patio is 500 square feet, and the garage is gonna be 360 square feet.

So this will be the the side of the garage and that's facing the driveway.

The reason why is this will be the side in which the driveway will be um entering and exiting the garage with the car, and there's gonna be windows on the on this side here, which is the um I guess the south side.

Um so we proposed that we're gonna have um board and batten um uh wood shingles with um uh a garage door um metal uh white and um same thing for the door.

Um we propose that we're gonna have um board and batten um uh wood shingles with um uh a garage door uh metal uh white and um same thing for the door so this is the view from um technically the rear we're gonna have the con um concrete block wall that holds up the retaining wall for the for the raised patio and that'll be the inside the garage separating the retain the patio plus the garage and then on the other side on the front this will be the front face in which we're gonna have two windows and we made the garage um a flat slope roof and access to the top with um uh railing.

And this would be the raised patio with the garage on the left.

If you're looking from the right side to the left, and this is from the east side.

So here's the partial house with uh raised patio and the garage.

And this is this is the view from the front.

So if you're from the street side, you'll be looking at this.

I decided that I was gonna make the flat roof, was because this is uh kind of a secondary um to the house, and the house is a very nice cape.

And if I had put on a peak on this, you would be hiding more more or less most of the house itself.

And I think that that would uh kind of ruin the look.

So I was trying to minimize the the um the volume of the building by making it smaller by making it flat and just putting in a railing so we can like access the roof.

So this here is the retaining wall where we're gonna the side retaining wall, which is the construction is going to be, and um this inside, which is section with um with the garage door and the regular door, and this here is the area in which if you're visible from the street, that's only the small area in which the garage can be occupying where you can see the house from the front.

So and this is the the type of material that we're proposing for the is um the retaining wall block is really like a tan grayish material in which is gonna match the existing house.

So if you will look at the existing house, you will see that the house itself, sorry, is kind of like a tan kind of pinkish color.

So we match the retaining wall to matches the color of the house with this type of material.

It's a little brownish, tannish um with uh a little gray in there, and then the patio itself is gonna be matching with the same type of material, the tan plus the gray material with borders that are gray.

We're also gonna use the side lapping textured um uh smart uh smart side um LP siding, which is wood, and we're gonna paint it to the same color, probably um prairie clay, you know, something in the tan color.

And the railings we're proposing is to have um natural wood coloring with um uh with um finials that are that are black.

The doors and the windows, so the door, the window would be you know, a single-hung aluminum um aluminum cladded uh with um uh actually this color is gonna be white.

It's gonna be the white exterior because all of the windows in the area has white colored um uh windows, and then the door itself would also be painted white.

And the garage door would be the style kind of like uh um you know um a bridge board kind of like look with um uh more uh um country, hopefully.

So I think that's all I have.

Okay.

Uh uh just and thank you for the presentation.

Um the question I have the the siding of the garage.

Is that material matching the house?

No, it's not.

I didn't think it's just it's just it's siding as opposed to his uh his house is uh made with uh stucco.

Stucco, yeah.

Original stucco.

Um is there any reason you're not stuccoing the garage?

I just you know I felt like you know the the the issue here is that I think that the house itself right is uh a different year and different generation, right?

And I think with the wood, right, and this house, this this building not looking similar to that house, and not part of the house, it becomes a separate element.

And in we're maintaining some of the colors and trying to keep it small and and scale so that um uh and trying to make it as minimal as possible that doesn't overshadow what the house would be because then the house the house the then the house is nice itself.

And how high is the inside of the garage?

It's it's eight feet.

It's eight feet six sides.

Way up there, okay.

Yeah, it's um uh and uh you said the railing is uh uh one of those uh wrought iron with the wood frame around it.

No, it's just I think it's aluminum, I'm not sure.

Or aluminum, I should say metal.

I should say metal with the uh yeah.

Right.

Okay.

That I put it, it's over here.

So this is the aluminum with the natural wood style with the caps on it, which is metal.

Is there any reason uh you you're not considering uh because it it's just visual impact um which uh and uh I I'm going along the lines here of what's since it is hybrid and we appreciate that it's hybrid here in a historic district, what makes it less uh obtrusive or you know, the outlier.

I think that it's more it's it's not um larger in scale.

Like if if you're from the front, perspective wise, or you're from the front and you see the uh the build you're talking about the uh as putting in a peak as opposed to um uh making it flat.

Yeah, no, I remember that from the process of the state.

Okay, so if I did put in the peak, right?

Uh we would go back to it covering the house in this manner or somewhat.

So now you're losing the the the front facade of the building from the street.

I totally get that.

Yeah, it's it's um uh it's interesting.

Do you have a planting plan for the front of that?

The planting plan?

Yeah.

No.

Um it has existing existing um uh like there's a tree, and then there is um uh a couple of it's all grass mostly, and then there was a pond and little pond like uh in there, but um uh we're not gonna let's see exactly and show you.

So it's in this area over here.

Just I'm asking that because just my my first impression is well, maybe if you're trying to reduce its impact uh by the moves you made, uh and I hate to use plants to hide something, but it might break up the uh wall that's facing the street.

Yeah, um, we can do arbites or um some trees that are uh I think that would be a good move.

Yeah front.

Uh and um Yeah, oh that actually would look good.

You call the shrubs and a couple of trees to it's uh uh I can appreciate this is a very hybrid lot with the house pushed all the way to the back.

Yeah I totally understand why you want to do this.

Um so that's why I'm kind of pushing the what do we do to reduce it?

And you've done a lot of things to reduce it.

I'm not discounting that myself.

The board is gonna also opine.

Uh but uh let me let uh everybody else uh get their thoughts so there's a lot going on, so I just kind of want to unpack it just to make sure like we all got it straight.

So currently there is already a wall there that was that was done, you know, taking out the railings, the wood railings, you know, based on the pictures that you showed.

Currently, yes.

So changes were done.

So in making those changes, um the steps were taken the step down from that railing was taken out.

Yes.

And so then the wall was placed at the bottom of where that's those steps going down.

You know what I mean?

Like where the wall started pushed out.

So it right.

So they pushed it out like eight feet.

Um already.

Yeah, yeah.

So then the other question that I that I just wanted to make sure of that.

Then the other question that I have is I I can appreciate that they would want um a garage.

But it is the historic district.

Yeah.

And so while you certainly have, as Jim said, done, a great job to try to minimize the obstruction of the home, it does obstruct the view of the home from the street.

Even though there is uh there are some trees there and there is some shrubbery, if you drive up or down the street, you do see the house.

You know, right now what you see is this huge wall that's there that wasn't there before.

Um, utilizing materials, even though you want to make it as uh your suggestion is or your view is or the client, your client's view is to make it something like a separate element, a separate structure.

But at the end of the day, the historic district, the homes are supposed to maintain the exterior as it was, which is what makes it the historic district, got us on the State Register and the National Register, or and got the neighborhood on the National Register.

Okay.

So I think that um it is a challenge to agree to something that will change the view of the house.

Um look at this just a second.

Keep going, sorry.

Um I'm hoping that with with what I'm doing with uh reducing the height of it, right?

You can't see the house from the fr um the house from the front.

I can probably bring down the height of the roofs a little bit more.

I can possibly change the material to um to So the railing that's there.

So the patio will connect to the top of that.

That's why the railing is there.

Yeah.

I mean if I'm making it flat, so no no use in just having a you if you're standing on the patio in the back, right?

So no I understand.

I mean the the space is there if it's being I I can understand what you're trying to say if the space is there and the patio has now extended out eight feet or so beyond the original patio and then you have this extra flat area.

But it doesn't really fit the home in my view.

I could probably bring it down to a different height um put around the around the um the around the top of the house right I can put in like a mansard and make it the same shingles as the original house right change the material to a stucco and then I can put trees all the way around.

So it kind of matches the house you know like over here, right?

Put in a mansard like a false roof right on the side make the material the same type of material as the house right even put in um these peaks around the windows and then after that I can um uh I can also put in the stucco instead of the board baton he gets stuck and match the house color it the same color and then um put trees in front and do um you know um uh what is it plan um landscape plan I mean that I know it it it's unfortunate we uh that the house is all the way to the back we don't have sproom on the left or the right to put in a garage and he's losing um uh shed that he was using storage with and and um then we still have to contend we're figure out what we're doing with the existing retaining wall that's there because um so now he's lost the he's lost the um the shed to the store stuff so instead of taking that shed um then we were gonna put in a garage we could probably reduce the size of the garage make it smaller put in the mansard make it match um make it match um make it match the roof of the existing building put in stucco to match and then put in um gardening outside the landscape but it still obstructs the home it still obstructs the original look of the home and and and please it's not uh an insensitivity it's a matter of trying to maintain the overall the overall integrity of the historic area additionally I could I I I certain again I can appreciate the need for a garage but the homeowner realized they were buying in a historic district and the home didn't have a garage but I'll let other board members uh make their comments if just one thing uh that you made me think of when the main thing is that from the street you you don't see you know you see this thing before the house it's right in the middle is it possible for you to shove it over to one side or the other so I tried that with the problem is it with zoning regulations I need the 12 foot side yard.

It's required unless I could come back with proposing it pushing it to the side.

I had that originally designed but we got denied by um the zoning you went to the zoning board for that or no not a zoning board sorry um building department um regular uh review but I didn't go to the zoning board because I was gonna think that it's to be too long you know I mean we two years into a garage or just a patio actually it seems like you have a lot of room anyway.

We do and it could move it could move yes I agree.

And um I'm just saying that maybe anything to move it off center would greatly improve and and it'd see the house a little bit better.

I would love to but we we have a side yard requirement 12 feet.

I mean it's not it's it's 12 feet.

I I mean it it it is possible I I mean I don't want to speak for the board but I mean it is you have the opportunity to make a case to the zoning board for that variance and if the board I'm not saying they are but it sounds like they might speak positively for that variance that would carry some weight with the zoning board um and in as they deliberated whether or not they should grant that variance they they would take that into consideration if it if there was merit to it.

Okay.

I mean I appreciate that um so that would be to go to the z apply to the zoning board for um uh uh the relief of the side yard I think move my personal opinion I th I think if you move it over will maintain the integrity of looking at the house like you do along the whole yeah um and and just in terms of material for instance if you uh stone the corners like the walls oh you know something like that.

Um and and just in terms of material, for instance, if you uh stone the corners, like the walls.

Oh you know, something like that.

I mean the walls don't fit because they want to be able to do that.

It doesn't of the new garage.

I mean, it they something like yeah, I could probably do something like that.

Uh even the stone that's already there as they extended it out eight feet from the home, doesn't fit doesn't fit the house.

Now all of a sudden when you got it you don't see that, uh what's on the left side of the screen, you see this wall.

Almost as is if it's oh well this picture actually if this wall, right?

You're you're just standing in the front yard.

If you're from the street, it's a different view.

Have you st from the street you still see the wall?

Um I'm talking about the wall itself compared to what it was before previously in the picture that you had before on the left hand side.

The other one.

So when that actually showed the uh the railing, the woods.

That one.

Yeah, it's a different view.

I'm just talking about maybe a foot and a half either side of the corners, just to tie that back into the nearest thing, the wall.

Yeah.

You know, uh I mean something like that.

Just think about it.

So the wall becomes integrated into the garage.

And it it'll reduce the uh it would reduce the impact on the site and the area if it's even less visible.

I you know.

Um possibly, yeah.

I mean, maybe I could do the base.

It fits in as the same material and do the columns on the sides and circle with it.

Something just a little bit, I mean, that's not a great expense, although it's a mason and that's a different task, but uh uh you are working with stone out there in some fashion.

Um that's just the one opinion to consider uh uh on this thing.

Um but I think uh to me the major thing is if you can move it over so that somebody on the street, even a passerby, still sees the house as the neighborhood was, because that's the basically the bottom line of the whole place.

Uh as Kevin mentioned, um uh with with anybody also uh commenting.

I think if the board would support moving it over to uh you know a a logical place for that reason.

Okay.

Um if it could consider that we'd love to see it.

I'm sorry.

I have one more question.

Are you taking the pond out?

You have to take the pond out to put everything in?

It's it's not like functioning that well.

I mean, like, no, but the pond was there.

Yeah.

Uh with the stone little stonework that was around it.

Actually, it was to the left of that.

That was gonna stay.

It was to the left of that.

This is where the garage area is, it's just not on my drawing.

So it's staying, so it's gonna be in that like 12-foot side yard area?

Yeah, it was.

Because then they could use that area for the front area to play in, I guess.

But now if I move it to the right, I mean maybe I can integrate it into the the building itself.

And I mean, into the um into the retaining wall itself and to rate it somewhere then move it to the right.

I I just have to go for as a different variance.

One is probably the asphalt amount, all right, the impervious area, because now I gotta have uh a driveway asphalt going up to the garage, and then the side yard requirement, which is 12 feet.

I mean, I could have put it easily in the 12 feet.

Uh let's see.

Yeah.

Where is my drawing?

So I could easily put it over here, put it over here, and then just have the re you know, this raised patio over here.

But when we when I started going through the um the review process with uh the building department, they were they were saying that, you know, okay, I can't I can't put the garage on the side.

But that is that's normal.

Uh just you know you can't violate the zoning side yards.

So now I had no, I mean, um and this side I can't go 12 feet in because I'm being the driveway itself.

So this was the only ideal location and this impervious area, right?

This asset this is the minimal amount of in area to to affect the impervious area calculation.

I think the board appreciates the the problems on this site with in a house with all the way to the back.

Yeah.

Um but I think there's just a little bit more because of the historic district.

Okay.

Uh that uh we'd love to see it come back with you know, hopefully that'll be something we can say, all right.

If you do need a variance, the HLRB supports it for the zoning board.

It's just a little process, but uh would I have to go for a variance first before like or do we have to come back with a new set of plans?

Do you anybody else on the board have anything to say?

I mean that the residence talk where it's gonna do that next, too.

Yeah, I mean uh I'm in agreement with the board that to to have a view without a garage being seen from the street um would be much per preferable that it's not right uh center.

And the fact that the frontal elevation is so important for the historic district, even with the setback that you have, that's crucial for in my opinion.

So an another plan that would look uh to be a less obtrusive with the garage would be um and I mean I also want to point out that the uh the this garage actually is is the distance setback is not as the garage would be in this location here, right?

But the adjacent houses are like aligned their way forward, yeah.

Yeah.

So even from the street, right, you're seeing this the same, you know, a house house house, you know, like uh house garage house in the same viewplane.

But the view of a of seeing a garage or a structure that you know is not the home is is different than seeing a house.

And I understand what you're saying as far as the distancing.

Okay, but that's what even makes that home even more unique is that it is that far a set back.

Okay.

And raised so that anyone passing by could see it.

I appreciate the um direction that I think we're going in in terms of maybe recommending some changes, because I when I just first looked at the plan of it, it just I've just had an interesting sort of response, and I want you also to think about the um the elements that you're using, because you mentioned a lot about shading and natural wood coloring and and the color of the you know, matching the color of the house, but you're still using all kinds of other um elements that are not natural.

Um I would want you to maybe consider the masonry uh somehow um as well, but certainly putting the garage to the side in some way um would be helpful and um and that yeah, that's that that wall is really um a strong site to see when you're you know what it's put there just recently.

Yeah.

So okay, but um so with the wall, right, existing as it is, right?

If I choose not to do the garage anymore, would you object about putting in planters in front of the existing um the existing patio that he started creating because it's already it's it's like partially built.

Because now I gotta figure out if we're gonna I have to ask the owner if we're gonna go to the board or the you know zoning for zoning reproval and um and a lot more time, you know.

Does the patio have any kind of approval from the billing department?

No, it don't.

We have to get well be here anyway.

Yeah, first and then we also still have the side yard requirements and you know the the um the patio size was reduced because of the side yard requirement because when it was built, it was built into the the 12 foot side yard requirement, and then we have to take that out, put it back to natural, and then build forward more.

So not to get that extra that 500 square feet.

Well, if you just incorporate that into uh whatever you want to go forward with with the the comments of the board at this first meeting.

Okay.

I would be appreciated.

You know, something like that comes up, we look at it.

Okay.

Um if uh if I can ask the uh the audience if they have uh any comments on this project, we'll open it up to the floor.

We're okay with that.

Uh I guess at this point uh we'd like to uh adjourn it, and that's what we'll vote on.

Um I think you sorry to interrupt I think you should should adjourn this evening, go back, speak with your client, decide what you'd like to do, and then let us know and we'll go from there.

Sure.

Okay.

Okay.

Thanks.

All right, that's it.

Like I say, it's not a flat out rejection, it's just I think it needs a little more work.

Thinking for this area.

Yeah.

Well, we're we were trying to stay within confines of the zoning laws.

Oh, that's very appreciated, yeah.

You know, that's what we had.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

All right.

This application is being adjourned to thank you very much.

Okay, and then uh we now move to uh city council referral, old and new business.

Item three.

New business discussion items, not for public comment.

This is item 3.1.

Presentation by Trinity Episcopal Church for proposed removal of the original.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, I think is the application.

Oh, the next two two.

Yeah, the appearing.

The architects.

The applicant is here for 61 Hamilton.

Yeah, okay.

We should.

Oh yeah.

They were waiting for the architect or we should go back to that.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

I pulled up the wrong one there.

I'll just read it over again here anyway.

Uh application 2.2.

Application HLB 3-2026 by Robinson Taneo for a certificate of appropriateness to extend a carport.

Add a roof side deck, repair the porch, stucco and paint.

Replace the roof windows and doors, perform facade repairs, install HVAC unit, and remove trees at 61 Hamilton Avenue block 835 lot 19 in R1 Historic Zone District.

Welcome.

Hello.

First of all, I'm so sorry I'm late, and thank you for moving things around.

Appreciate your time.

I'm Michelle Mazzaro, and I'm Mr.

and Mrs.

Tinail's architect.

Nice to see some of you again.

So to I'll try to be efficient.

To go over briefly what we presented last month.

This is a 1905 blend of different styles.

We have four square tutor revival, classical revival, and colonial revival, sorry, Spanish revival.

The house has been abandoned for a long time.

It shows a lot of deterioration.

Is to bring it back to life.

The proposed work includes the replacing all of the windows, repairing the stucco, replacing the roof, and then enlarging the existing carport.

So these are the existing um the existing conditions of the house, how it currently stands.

And these are the elevations as proposed.

So to go over them quickly, we are replacing the windows.

I'll start with the front door.

One of the items that was discussed last month was that the intention is for the front door to keep the original door and just restore it.

And the original door has this arch transom above it.

And the idea of um keeping the arches, arch, the two on each side of the front door was brought up.

So we would like to actually do that.

So we appreciate that comment.

So we will square out those windows with exception of those two front facades on the sides of the door.

So they work together like a bundle.

And we'll dive into the enlargement of the cardboard as well.

For the cardboard, right now is really tight, so it barely fits uh today's size of an SUV.

So we are proposing to enlarge it to 22 feet deep by 16 feet wide.

So that fits the ACUV that the owners currently have, and the idea is to keep the exact style, match the existing columns that the house currently has, and we'll go through the materials.

But um that's the only structural exterior proposal that we're we're presenting.

Um in terms of the materials, we are proposing asphalt shingles.

Currently, there are asphalt shingles in the existing home.

We're keeping it um a dark color, and we're keeping all the original dark contrast trims from um the rafter tails and all the the dark details that the house currently has for the gutters.

We saw signs that the house had gutters at some point, so we're gonna try to be as honest to the historical identity of the home, and we're proposing half-round black gutters.

Um we're proposing TimberTech, Coconut Husk, um composite decking for the front porch, and then the biggest item from last um conversation last month was the windows.

We were presenting um last month with presented prove, which was a um a vinyl clad window, and um it was brought to our attention that aluminum clad was preferred.

So we have revised that.

We're now proposing Pella lifestyle windows, which is a fully wood window clad with aluminum, and there was also conversations of like maybe let's try to have the front facade um with the with the best historical appropriate windows and then maybe have some flexibility on the other facades.

But after conversations with the owners, we have decided to just keep the same windows throughout.

So we're proposing the wood aluminum clad windows from Pella Lifestyle throughout.

Wonderful.

And these are just some images.

I'll I'll flip through them for those who were not here last month.

But this is a um to the top left, it's just a photo of the existing uh main door of the home.

So and then the image on the right, it's how we're proposing it.

We're keeping the dark contrast door by adding a very deep dark blue.

We're keeping the um gold hardware features that the house currently has throughout the property.

Um and then for the rest of the doors, we're just adding a patio door and a basement or trying to mimic the exact design of the original front door for the basement in the back.

Um we also discussed um not vinyl railing but composite, so it's more solid, it's more durable, it doesn't feel flimsy like how you would see the Home Depot sleeves and the railings that get attached on the outside.

So what we're proposing is TimberTech Composite Premier Rails, which has all the fasteners hidden, so you would not be able to see it.

The dimension matches those of wood railing, and again, the material is matte, so it doesn't have that cheap, shiny finish to it.

So it was it's very close to what you would normally see in original wood railings, but it offers the the benefit of the easy maintenance and durability that modern materials um offer you today.

Um then we also briefly discuss the the post of uh that we're matching through throughout, um which are the permacast plus, which is a solid structural um uh fiberglass post for those that need to be replaced in the cardboard with the proposed extension on enlargement, and then finally the covers of the HVAC, which we're proposing a very clean metal white to blend in with the finish of the home, which are at the very back of the home.

And finally, the um the landscape, which we did bring to the to the environmental engineer, and um he approved, he said that as long as it's um within the property lines that he he approved what we had, which we can also just provide that conversation.

And I know I was very brisk about this, so please let me know if I need to go back um and revisit any of the points.

But yes.

No, thank you.

It was very thorough, and thank you for responding to the things we mentioned as the last meeting.

And thank you for giving us the chance to just revisit.

I just had a question.

Are all the car posts being replaced?

All of them.

All of them.

So here in the plan, um, so this square right here, it's the existing carport, and it currently has two posts right here.

But as we enlarge it a little bit, we're um we're gonna have to replace those.

So we're replacing them with three posts identical to the original ones, the permacasts.

So from two to three.

From two to three.

Okay.

Any other comments on the board.

So I know that I appreciate um you going back and speaking with the owners, appreciate that the owners have have decided to not just uh change the windows in the front to wood, all wood, aluminum clad, but all the windows to keep it all in line.

That's greatly appreciated.

I did have, I thought we had spent some time last meeting discussing the wood for the porch.

Um, you know, considering did the owners did you have the opportunity to speak to the owners about considering actual wood versus the composite as well as the railings.

Yes.

We we did go back, we did review the options, and I think just based on the options that we review, we would still like for you to consider um what we're presenting.

Again, I think we're we're trying to be very mindful, understanding that it is composite.

Um so we we did try to find something that was as close as what you would get with wood, but understanding that you know, for them it's also very important that they're investing in something that it's durable um and just help them with young kids, just help them to maintain it more easily.

But yes, we did consider it and we need to present this for your consideration.

Yeah, okay.

And it it's um locking, it's not like a separate like a deck, it's not like a gap in between the planks.

It's it's it locks together.

It it does not lock together.

So but together.

Timber tech, it it does have a clip that joins.

Do you mean each board to be?

Yeah.

Yes.

So it it's just like uh it's not ton and groove.

Basically, both of them have a groove, and then there's a clip in between.

Okay, yeah, just if that makes sense.

But there's no no real gap that you see.

It's like on a like on an open.

Just like like the photo, you will see a little bit of a still one.

But it's so minimal.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

And then again, like we did try to pick a tone that looked natural, so stair away from grays and bluish.

So this one resembles um walnut stain cedar that was the closest that we could find.

So yes, just to work.

Why don't we open it to the floor?

If anybody's here to uh support it, please come.

Hi, I'm Margaret Chabick at 95 Hamilton Avenue, and I just wanted to say thank you to all of you.

Um I know sometimes it seems like, oh, how am I ever going to make this happen?

There's a lot of different moving parts.

Um you did a great job.

And we thank you so much, and we welcome you to the neighborhood.

Thank you.

Thank you, Margaret.

Uh anybody want to make a motion?

Uh close the public hearings and we'll make a motion.

Uh I'll make it.

I uh uh I'm gonna read off uh suggested conditions of okay, yes.

From staff.

Please do.

Um number one uh the applicant shall ensure that the proposed trees and plantings are located south of the driveway and west of the sidewalk and do not encroach upon or obstruct the sidewalk.

Do you agree?

Me?

Yes.

Yes.

Sorry.

I thought that would be yes.

I agree.

That's it.

Yeah, you continue.

Wonderful.

Uh I make a motion that we uh approve this as presented for its uh certificate of uh appropriateness and for the applicant to move forward.

Do we have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

Motion passes.

You're set.

That's it.

Oh.

Thank you.

See, I was late, so now I'm like 30 seconds behind.

Appreciate it.

We did a lot of work on this.

Okay, we can move to our uh item three, city council referrals.

I read it before, but I'll read it again.

Old and new business discuss discussion items, not for public comment.

Item 3.1 presentation by Trinity Episcopal Church for proposed removal of the original cathedral glass and wood window frame and replacement with new custom wood fixed wood window units with clear glass at the clear story uh at 311 Huguenot Street block 417, lot 24 in a D B zone district.

There's no action tonight.

We're just hearing the presentation.

No, that's correct.

They uh did they reached out to us yesterday and uh mentioned that they it sounds like they would need to come before you to get a certificate of appropriateness.

Um they don't have a referral yet, I don't believe, um from buildings and haven't filed uh an application yet, but asked if they could come before the board to preliminarily present what they're proposing and then see if we could help to kind of facilitate the process.

Uh this is this is a landmark in the city, so it's not something that's in our historic district, but it's something that is a designated landmark.

Uh and so any uh exterior changes that are visible do require approval from this board.

Hello, I'm Thomas Monarski architect with Reverend Talisa uh here uh representing uh Trinity Trinity St.

Paul's.

Uh Trinity St.

Paul's is uh 1862 church by uh Richard Opjohn, a prominent architect of churches uh in the area.

Um we are proposing you can see the the I'm sure you're familiar with this church.

Um we are uh the the church has undergone a lot of changes recently where an existing fuel-fired boiler has been removed and we had upgraded the HVAC system and as part of all of that uh work, we're now looking for ways to make the building more energy efficient.

Um and uh we are uh looking to restore uh and replace uh the clear story windows, which are the windows above the um well, they're in the clear story, so when they're in that uh space between the two roofs.

Um the church itself has uh some prominent stained glass on the ground floor, and then in the clear story, all of the existing windows are uh what used to be like bypass windows that were operated with pulleys, and they have uh this uh diamond.

See if I have a better picture of it.

They're sorry.

They have this diamond um sorry, not a great uh diamond cathedral glass, which is common, I think, to uh churches and parish houses and accessory buildings of of churches all over the place.

Uh the cathedral glass itself isn't uh historically significant, uh although it is original.

Uh and our intent is to replace the um the existing sashes with new sashes.

So we would be re remove the sashes, build new sashes uh in the same material in the same profile, and replace the um uh the cathedral glass with clear uh insulated glazing units.

So we would be um replacing the existing um clear story glazing with um with nuclear glazing.

Um the the windows themselves are in very bad shape.

Some of them have fallen out already.

And um we're uh doing this to improve the energy efficiency and air tightness of the envelope of the building, and then also to let flight in um and modernize the interior of the space uh a little bit while remaining um historically uh sensitive.

So I'd like to hear your comments and see how receptive the board will be to disposal.

Yeah, I have a question.

Is the stained glass the original stained glass?

Is that being removed and put back, or is that stained glass being uh not used in the new replacement?

Reuse it.

I'm sorry.

We would remove it and store it, but we wouldn't reuse it.

You wouldn't reuse it.

That's right.

My question.

Because it would have date it back, excuse me, to the original It's likely original.

1862 church is what I would think.

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's it's in it's in very it's in very bad shape.

I mean, it needs like uh all those all that glass would need to be re-leaded completely um to be reused.

Yeah.

I've seen I've actually seen that happen in churches where they just remove the whole stained glass, I'm sure you're familiar with it.

Yes.

And then they put the panel on the outside.

Yes.

And then reinstall the the stained glass on the inside as it was.

Yes.

That can't happen here or is it uh um is there any way to like so faux that back in, you know, on uh on on the clear glass?

Um it's I mean, I'm just asking because I uh it's all speaking at the microphone.

Yeah, sorry, I didn't I thought it was just a bit too loud.

Yes, I can do that.

That's okay.

It's just that sometimes it doesn't get picked up for the recording and people do watch from home.

So um, yes, of course it's possible because we could essentially uh move the the we're rebuilding the the sashes because they're in such bad shape that uh while we haven't had scaffolding to go up and do a full survey of the clear story, um it's pretty clear that the sashes are beyond salvage at this point and and uh so we're we're going in there assuming we're gonna rebuild the sashes and we could rabbit in um uh a groove for the cathedral glass to go in uh behind the the glazing units.

Um I would prefer not to do that because the the cathedral glass would still need to be restored for us to do that.

Yeah, it's uh another step on another product.

Yeah.

Yes.

Another item.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What what we can do, and I think would be uh reasonable is we obviously didn't have any intention to throw this glass out.

We can um uh we can build the new frames with the new glazing um in with the rabbited channel for any f for this potentially to return in at some future uh date.

Yeah, that's the where I think it would go.

Prepare the sashes now for a simple remounting of them.

We we'd be very happy to do that.

I think um in the meantime you could repair them.

It's it's one extra pass of in uh in a milk shop, so I would, you know, I like the idea of putting the clear glass and then you know the stain inside of it.

I mean, I would um I would be in agreement with with the understanding that that stained glass has to go back in a reasonable time, not ten years later.

You know, because I I I can I can understand or appreciate that it would take time to relet it all and and uh you know put them back.

But certainly they have to go back.

I mean, they I am sure are part of what makes that structure such a landmark um location.

Yes.

And um I would just be hesitant to uh make any promises because of the um uh the difficulties the church has in in just uh I mean the roof itself is the next thing up, and that's gonna be a a huge undertaking.

Um I don't know if you're familiar, but we have a you know, like a 1970s transite roof on this church, which has failed probably 20 years ago.

Um But the glass is important.

I understand the proof, but I'm just saying every part of it is important.

And I don't want to make the the cost of it an excuse to not do it, but I just want to not promise anything.

Um hopefully you can speak to the to the owners and they can figure out how to get it all into the budget.

Are the stained are all of the stained glass in on that side?

Are they all or are there any that are not in disrepair or all of them are in disrepair?

Are there any that are in good shape?

Um so the um if we're just talking about the clear story windows, again, I haven't done a up close survey, uh, but if they are original 1860s cathedral glass, I don't see how the lead caming hasn't failed at this point.

And they would likely all need to be re-leaded.

That's been our experience with similar similar windows.

Yeah, I'm just thinking because a while ago when we had to redo stained glass windows, we did um find this gentleman who was well into his probably almost approaching 80s, but he's he worked with us on putting all of that and restoring it all.

So sometimes and his experience was with the church.

So I you know, is there a way to kind of look and see if there's anyone who's specializing in that you know, restoring that?

And if each of those windows does take time.

But um, you know, maybe if we had a plan for what we would do or what you would do with the um stained glass, that would make some of us feel a little more happier about it.

Yes, and I think we can look at that and um uh uh present that plan.

We have restorers that we deal with that do this type of work and we can have them give us some kind of an idea.

I think at the same time, I I want to also when we uh speak again, I I do want to um you know uh I we would like to put the clear window, the clear glass there, not just because we don't want to put the stained glass there back, the cathedral glass, but we also do want to in a way modernize the the space and make it more usable on the interior by by making it uh you know more filled with light.

I think the board appreciates what you're saying because you'd like to do that for lots of uh energy efficiency reasons and secure the building.

But uh that can go hand in hand.

I think what they're saying with a plan that gets the cathedral glass back up on it.

And then uh a framework we put on it and preparation.

Even if you you know it's God knows what time you know it's done, but there's a preparation and a method for it.

I think that would be wise to do on this.

But I think I think the the goal as you state is to get the um the glass up that you're trying to keep the heat in with.

Um but I think the the prep or demonstration of a prep would be very important for Neurochell to see.

Yeah, and I think one thing that I would ask from the board today is permission to do a mock-up of at least one bay.

Uh we would we we have been um I think that uh in we've engaged already a a contractor, a carpenter who's ready to to start.

And we'd like for him to be able to set up scaffolding so that we can go up there and uh do the proper, you know, get the proper profiles and everything, and then also do uh just tell them just tell them about the plan that might come.

Yes, of course.

And sometimes these guys come up with stuff.

Yeah, and uh the preparation pre prepping the windows for the stained uh for the cathedral glass stained glass to go back in.

That's no issue.

I think the one thing uh I I don't want to promise is I know that it's gonna be a huge expense.

Oh, yeah.

And I just don't want to promise that to the board if you know if there's you know the I think the board appreciates the expense that that would that entail.

Yeah.

But we like to know that it's possible.

But definitely, yes.

I can tell you right now it's possible, and we can do our scope with that in mind and prepare for that to happen.

And yeah.

Doesn't have to be on the heels of it of the but but sometime.

Yeah.

The possibility is there.

Yeah, and it would be beautiful.

Any uh more comments, comments out there we're all set.

There's no you have some things to think about and you know if you make your application and we'll we'll get it on the agenda once we have the application.

Keep going on it, yeah.

Yeah, so I I'll see you here next month.

In the meantime, uh is it uh will it be uh acceptable for the building department to let us do a mock-up of one of the bays or the I mean I think we need to see some specific details on that.

I I don't think we're in a position to give any sign off on that tonight.

Okay.

So if you receive the application, we'll see you next month.

Thank you very much.

All right, thank you.

Interesting job.

So let's just anyone want to make a motion to adjourn the meeting?

Uh is there a second?

Second.

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.

Thank you all.

Thank you.