How about yourself?

Same.

Actually, I have to work it with Terra.

All right, everybody, it's four o'clock, so we'll go ahead and get started with the community planning and transportation committee for Thursday, October 23rd, 2025.

We have three items on the agenda.

The first one is our regular presentation of the monthly public transit ridership report.

This one for September.

We have Taylor here from staff to go.

Thank you, Mayor and Council members.

Yeah, I'm Taylor Johnson, your transit and parking program manager in public works.

As always, we have a few updates here on the memo in your packets, as well as some ridership numbers.

We can uh go over and answer any other questions that you guys have.

Um the memo here, I just want to highlight a few things on the maintenance and vehicle procurement.

Uh we appreciate council approving uh acceptance of grant funds, moving some monies around, and then the authorization to purchase of three large buses last Tuesday.

So we're busy uh getting all that paperwork done um with the Washington state contract folks and getting that PO issued and getting those on order.

So those will be the last three big buses that we need to replace as a since we've inherited the system.

So and it'll be a while before we need to replace them because they're 12-year buses.

So we will have replaced all of them in the last five years.

Correct.

Yeah, because we inherited all the buses we inherited, were old pretty much, and we've replaced all of them.

And then I did get a question the other day from someone about I guess one of the older ones was in service, and they asked about when we were updating all the buses.

I was like, actually, there's only two left.

So we're almost there.

Which you know, some of those older ones, yeah, they're still on the road, they're still they're not as nice on the inside, but they're still performing fairly well.

So yeah.

Um, and then uh moving along to the bottom of the first page on the Central Oklahoma Long Range Transit Plan.

Uh, we came to council last on September 23rd to give an update, and that was uh likely the last update to you all.

Uh it'll go through a few more committees and then on to ACOG, likely in November, where we're anticipating adoption of that.

And then uh ACOG staff is is uh we're gonna be working with them on looking at how the implementation plan or action plan for that long-range transit plan works.

So uh just a reminder it's uh culmination of all the local planning work for transits, uh making some recommendations, but um at a high level, what can we do to move transit forward um collaboratively in the ACOG region uh for into the future?

So we'll be working on that in next uh calendar year.

And then on the back page, uh it's the last bullet at the top, uh, technically under the grant section.

We talk about the T SEC grant.

We um came to council a few times to talk about embark well, and so we are pursuing that grant.

Uh it's the physical activity section of T SET, which is the the uh tobacco settlement endowment trust, and hoping to launch a pilot program for that embark well, which is senior focused transit to you know help encourage health and wellness uh for that population over 60 is what they do in Oklahoma City right now, and as we discussed, we could change that if council um wants us to, but we're at least gonna pursue that grant funding.

It's a hundred percent, which is great.

If we we could possibly get some additional points if we asked for um less than 100%, but we felt like that was the most prudent thing to do at this at this moment, and we'll be going to you on October 23rd with a grant resolution, um, hoping to get that approved so we can submit that.

The deadline's November 18th, I believe.

So and then lastly, on the Norman Transit Center parking lot project.

Uh, that we had a final walkthrough on Monday, so that project is it's good to go.

It looks great.

We're we're pretty happy with it.

And if you drive by or stop by and look at it, um hope everybody everybody else is happy with it.

Uh something we knew we were gonna have to do, but uh we were hoping we could limp through with the asphalt a little longer, but it just wasn't becoming yeah.

Moving on to the ridership.

So uh in September for both uh embark uh the fixed route service and plus we had 47,643 riders.

That's a little bit more than last September, which was 44,679.

Um so again, like last month, we're starting to see uh what I would call uh good regular growth.

The last couple years we've seen 20, 25 percent ridership, so now we're still increasing, but not nearly as much as that, which is still fine in the in the industry.

Um I would like to point out on the table on the right there, uh just some of the the 112, the 121 and 122 are over 30 percent over last September.

Um so that's that's great, they're still uh gaining uh locally, and then the the main street one ten and east Lindsay 11 are down slightly, but uh you know the main streets it's it's it's 50 riders and and uh 111 it's obviously our most heavily ridden route, so it's uh over a thousand, but still a very heavily utilized route.

So try to keep it in perspective uh uh and and point back to uh the numbers we were doing last year, but obviously as we go forward, we may not see as much gain.

And then um and Saturday service for main street is up 35% though.

Yeah, so you know it can vary by month too.

We've talked about that how many weekdays versus uh weekend days and just events, game days, things like that.

But overall, still uh healthy growth and healthy ridership uh for us.

And I always like to point to the ridership or service hour for fixed route uh weekday is still 22 uh over 20.

Uh still very good for a system our size, which is great.

And uh which routes are 30 minutes right now?

The only one that's not 30 minutes is one ten.

Okay.

So that's actually uh in our memo, we like to keep this in front of council and for whoever reviews the whoever reviews the uh monthly report, so it can kind of get mundane keeping it in there, but we like to like to show it.

Our first priority in our long range plan was Sunday service, which as we talked about, we did with micro transit, and we can evaluate whether we want to put fixed routes on Sunday and move micro transit around or not.

Yeah, and then our second uh priority was uh making Route 112 or West Lindsay to 30 minutes, which we did uh just last year, yeah.

And so our third priority is that increased free frequency on Route 110.

Um, and then uh the next one is that new route to Southeast Norman.

So uh all of them are 30 minutes except for the main street route.

Right.

I had a I spoke to a class at Norman North on Monday, and one of the students asked about that and said that she rides it.

Okay, and asked when we were gonna make it 30 minutes.

So I told her the goal was actually to get the 30 minute ones to 15 minutes and the hour one to 30 minutes, and then someday all of them be 15 minutes when someday that we were working on that.

But I and I had thought that there was only one more left that was 30 minutes or that was an hour, I mean, and so but they were asking.

Yeah, and that's technically in the next step.

Uh certainly if council wants us to pursue that, uh we could.

That's one of the more easier improvements is adding a bus to a route.

Uh we have to make sure we have the capacity, obviously, and um add more contractual cost with embarks for uh for embark with more drivers.

But do you have a cost breakdown of that?

I know you do.

Not in the memo, but uh that we don't I don't keep it in there because you know, union costs go up with embark, uh bus prices go up if we have to buy a bus.

So if we like to refresh those ideas every once in a while, but until we're uh really thinking about it, we want to not refresh those costs because of the change.

The driver, but like if one of the older buses still has some life in it, maybe it only ran it ran for 30 minutes during four hours a day or something during a peak at peak time.

Yeah, it would run the 30 minutes.

I don't know, something like that.

Yeah, we could have to buy a whole new bus.

Right, it's not running 30 minutes the entire day, just uh yeah.

We could certainly looking at look at that uh from a rider perspective.

I know that it's nicer to keep everything the same, so you're not guessing when is the 30-minute service, when is it not?

Um, and then from a I know what fleet's gonna tell me if I go back with that is well, let's not keep the older bus we want to replace, right?

So just things like that to consider.

Um and we might be able to get grant money if we need a new bus to expand service too.

We could look at that, not just replacement like we've been doing, but actual checking the box that we want to expand service.

Yeah, um, you can let us know what the cost to do the 110 route 30 minutes.

Okay, that'd be helpful.

Okay.

Um then um, because I know you have a few other things on your agenda moving to Norman on demand ridership.

Uh that last page on your packet, or in this uh part of the packet.

We had uh just under 3,000 riders on Norman on Demand in September 2025 last month, and we had 4760 last September.

We talked last month about how the there's a bucket of hours for the whole year, and via tries to spread that out as best they can, you know, overload it sometimes at the beginning of the year.

Uh this year they've kind of tapered it back, and then um just refreshing a conversation we had last year about fares and promo rides and things.

So we raised the fare from $2 to $3, and then we uh as of September, middle of September, we did away with the six free rides when you sign up because we're now in our third year, we didn't feel like we need to have that promo continuously running, we could bring it back every once in a while.

And um via it hinted that they think there might be some fraud at people just creating emails to get free rides.

So we think the raised uh rate uh race fare plus the uh reduction in the promo and then just trying to write size the service level at certain times of the year is resulting in that uh lowering.

But the great thing about Norman on demand and on-demand service in general is you can taper back the service if you're not getting as much demand.

So that's what they've been doing, and um, we're hopeful.

Well, if if the demand kind of flattens out or decreases over the year, maybe we could have some cost savings for next year that we could propose to council or some possible areas of expansion if we kept the contract the same.

But we're reviewing all that, watching it closely, and um just wanted to highlight that because it obviously says a 38% reduction in rides, but um with that, there's uh opportunities to increase the uh the user uh satisfaction level of the service to try to decrease wait times um and different things.

So I also wanted to point out that uh last September we had uh a total number of accounts of 8100, and as of last month, we have uh 13,800 as a college town.

I think we get an influx of new accounts every year, so that's not to be um so super surprising.

And we've gained about four percent since August into September.

So we'll always get more and more accounts, but um just want to point out that uh we do have a high high number of accounts, and about a third of them have completed more than five rides.

Um you can kind of see that in the narrative, so about 4400.

So some people try it once, maybe use it every once in a while.

Um, some people try it and don't use it ever again.

But there are uh a good handful of active users that are utilizing the service.

Any more thoughts or questions about transit I can answer before I change hats in the next item?

Yeah, comments, questions, transit related.

Okay.

Um at the transit center now the parking lot's done, everything, everything else going.

Yeah, so um parking lots, great.

Uh there uh are some other to-dos that we like to get done, just general building maintenance, the the bird netting.

I feel like we talked about that before under the awning, it's caused me grief for a little bit, you know, holes pop up here and there.

Uh storefront, I think we mentioned it's not gonna last forever, still the original, and it's getting a lot of people coming in and out of it.

But those are just things we're working with uh facility maintenance on and try to do it by cost.

The lobby storefront, yeah.

Sorry.

Extrude aluminum, it's yeah, they do have a useful life.

Exactly.

So uh there's things that we need to keep working on, but overall, uh still a great reuse, great facility for what we needed it to be.

Um there are a handful of incidents every now and then.

If you have questions about security, uh, you know, that's what they're there for.

Is to if there's some arguing or something going on, they take care of it or call PD if necessary.

But um happy to dive into that into future meetings if you'd like, but uh don't want to take everything and lay it at council speed if we don't need to.

Just follow up because you mentioned it last time we just hear about how y'all did that bathroom changeover and how I felt seen a good return on that.

Yeah, it's that happened as many issues changing out that toilet really really helped as much as uh uh sounds silly, but uh we did have an issue with the uh water line that brings uh water to the toilet over the last few weeks.

Um, but uh other than that, it's just awesome.

It's been fine.

So make sure you right size your your equipment, I guess.

I don't know.

It's interesting.

Okay, very good.

Anything else?

Okay, thank you, Tim.

All right, item number two on the agenda is a discussion regarding proposed updates to the city of Norman's parking management plan, including potential parking leases for food trucks.

Okay, we have city staff here.

So uh thought about I'd spin my chair around and act like I just sat down again.

As your transit parking manager, uh, I'm here to talk about the proposed updates to the city of Norman's parking management plan.

Scott's here to help me answer some questions because uh you know uh parking is a fun topic and uh it's been around in public works for a while, but we recently inherited a couple years ago, so we might need some historic knowledge and things.

So moving on to how we manage parking.

Uh we come to council every month for transit, but we don't come very often for parking.

So just want to uh remind everybody of how it works at the city.

So uh we kind of act like the lead um people can call, ask us questions.

If we can't do the thing, we'll we know the people to help with that.

And but we can't uh manage the system, at least right now, without help from other divisions and departments.

So traffic control, we took over the the management of the metered parking from them in terms of maintenance of the pay stations, collecting the revenue, uh coordinating everything, but they still help us with signage and uh they're still a good resource for historical knowledge on the on the system itself.

Striping of the parking lots, uh obviously, things like that.

Police uh obviously still do parking enforcement.

We coordinate with them if there's any issues, we let them know hey park pay station's not working, or there's gonna be a they probably already know about closures of streets or things like that, but they let us know about those things if we haven't heard about them.

City clerk's office, they've been doing the um uh the gray street lot lease, managing that for I think ever since it's been created, and we've been talking about taking that over from them just as one less thing for them to do, but obviously it would fall into our our area to um manage at some point.

So we've been talking with them for about a year or so about that, and then municipal court uh if there is any fees or citations given, they obviously handle those and um we coordinate with them sometimes if they claim that they uh paid and they need a receipt, we can send it to them and help them uh get that information, things like that.

Uh on the parking enforcement, uh we don't have it on the weekends.

Um that is a complaint I get.

Uh in the future, do you think that we would have parking enforcement on the weekend?

Um I I guess it was my understanding that we at least enforced it on campus corner on Saturdays.

So that would be campus corner has its own parking enforcement officer, right?

So that would be my I get that's my last understanding, but I'd have to check.

I get it from the neighborhoods mainly.

So not paid parking specific.

Okay.

So uh yeah, that would be a good PD question.

That's uh just making sure what they put out their service level wise.

And I I think if they would call in and PD in general, they'd be able to handle that as an officer too, but that's just my assumption.

Yeah, it's neighborhoods complaining about uh on the weekends, massive parking, and then sometimes on the grass, sometimes not.

I know that during game days it's kind of lifted if somebody wants to sell their lawn space.

Correct.

But they still can't park in front of yellow curves and all those uh safety rules.

And parking enforcement is at out as probably a lot of people know in full force.

Umforcing those yellow curves, fire hydrants, and other uh public safety aspects.

Yeah, no, I definitely saw them uh off Lindsay around Preston Powell last Friday.

Yeah, yeah.

Exactly that, which that's a neighborhood I heard from, so no complaints there.

Yeah, and I think we only have the four officers now.

We did have the the half part-time officer, and that um I think last budget got uh taken away, so there's the the four.

But as far as their schedules, I'd have to check check with uh Lieutenant Osterleen who's over the so what's currently metered public parking.

We have what we call four, we have two areas, and then in that we have two uh sub sub areas or facilities that we try to keep keep separate in terms of accounting and things.

So in downtown we have our East Gray Street lot, it's uh the large parking lot there between um Crawford and Peters.

We have uh 41 leased spots, uh six accessible parking spaces, 93 uh that are just open to the general public in addition to those, and then we have three EV charging parking spaces there in the north northeast corner, and then the other downtown uh paid public parking is the county courthouse on street there in that square around around the courthouse, and uh we have 10 ADA or accessible parking spaces there, 42 that are just open to the general public, and then uh in the southwest corner we have 18 that have been reserved for law enforcement officers, and that are right there on next to the the courthouse, and then two that are reserved for veteran courtesy parking spaces.

Are the law enforcement spaces or they paying for those?

No, that was uh that's a good history question, but that's been like that for a while where it's reserved for uh just any law enforcement.

I think the idea was, and this was before when the jail was there too, they would have readily available parking to be able to come and go from the courthouse as needed.

So that's the okay.

Wait, now that's on the courthouse.

That's on the courthouse once, correct.

I was thinking of the gray street for some reason.

So the courthouse one, though, that's we manage that it is public parking, it's just signed for law enforcement only.

No, just in general, the oh, yeah, yeah.

So yeah, just all on street parking around that block basically.

Yep.

We do that because the county a long time ago asked for us to do it.

Yeah, and there's you know, demand that uh, I guess you know, like the like campus corner.

We we want people to turn over, do their business and and go and that yeah.

We used to have uh about 50 single space meters there a few years ago, switch those all out for four pay stations, so they got a little bit more manageable.

But okay.

Well, I know downtown used to have parking meters a long time ago.

And then I guess around the courthouse is what's left over of the correct okay.

Yep.

And in campus corner, we have our Asp Avenue parking lot, uh, which has three accessible spaces and 64 that are just open to the general public, and then uh the on-street parking, which is uh 153 open to the public and six accessible parking spots.

So those are our four areas uh that we we manage and currently for paid public parking in the city.

And uh the parking management plans you can see there on the right.

Uh, we currently have two a downtown one and a campus uh corner one, and these were created in 2013 and originally have been revised a handful of times, but they're really uh just a how do we manage the current operations, what are the rates, uh, how do you pay just the the bit boring part uh about the management of the system and that really lets us know as staff, you know, these are marching orders, and uh as public they could find this and review it if they'd like, and that way they know there's no surprises or anything.

So it's supposed to be a document that's for their current management, and like Catherine talked to you last week about possible parking authority, trust or parking uh structures, things like that.

That's not necessarily what we're talking about.

We're just talking about the day-to-day management of what we currently have, and we can amend it and add to it as necessary, if that makes sense.

So going into our proposed updates, we'd like to consolidate that into one management plan.

Uh there's a lot of redundancy in the old ones where it talked about, you know, we use Flowbird pay stations, and that was just copy and paste to the other one.

So we just felt like we could uh separate out the aspects that we needed to the different areas and uh just have one on the books that we needed to keep up with and revise.

And with that, we just need to update contact information for our division uh rather than traffic control, and then for the other uh uh like menu support and different things uh if those need to be updated.

The parking area maps needed to be refreshed a little bit and cleaned up, and then we wanted to update the payment options.

We added pay by text a couple of years ago, um, which took off uh a little bit, and people like that as an option.

We want to include more information on other options like app business accounts.

I think I brought that up a few meetings ago where as a business you can create an account and add your employees or take them away and pay for their parking if you'd like, and then on the validation codes, we've had this in the parking management uh plans, but just some more information on that, and then on the app business accounts and the validation codes as staff, we'd like to um look into those more and maybe start uh asking businesses if they'd like those.

So the validation codes are uh hey city, we want 500 bucks worth of parking.

We say, Great, here's your code, it's one, two, three, four, uh, park, and they give that out to the customers, and the first 500 users get to use that right at a dollar a piece, or whatever the whatever the agency or business wants to do.

So, a way that if you have a special event or some other thing you want to promote your business and you want to help bring people in for that or as a promotion.

So uh just want to explore that some more as a possible uh customer uh tool, and then uh bringing in more revenue for the parking funds.

And Mr.

Mayor, that type of tool, I think really grows in value as the parking structure concept grows.

Um, and in prior conversations that once uh parking structures are available, that all on street parking will be flowbird regulated, and you know, how do you address the needs of your employees?

And this is the type of tool that allows for the employer to have spaces uh for employees off the street and leave that street frontage available to customers and and hopefully get the turnover each of those businesses are looking for.

So the timing of such a tool and its implementation are really coming in a great point in all the other projects we're working on parking related.

This is a great example of this might be amended sooner rather than later on the payment options.

Uh Flowbird and has been uh acquired by a larger parking company called Arrive, or they rebranded as arrived.

So now they're part of a big collaboration, which includes a company called Park Mobile, which is a better app experience, is what we're understanding.

So we may add that as an option that's integrated.

So on the enforcement side and the payment side, hopefully it all works, not more staff time.

But on the customer side, if you're used to used to park mobile and you're visiting, you already have the park mobile app.

If you use a flow bird, you have the flowbird app.

So anyway, it's just an example of something that could be amended to um just show customers another option and keep everything current.

So now for the the fun stuff, the fun uh topic of uh proposed updates to cost, and this is something we've been kind of tiptoeing around with council over the last couple years, especially in regards to the ASP parking lot.

And so uh here you see our four areas, they're listed on the left.

Um, obviously the days that we uh meter, the hours, and then the current rate.

So in the East Gray Street parking lot in the county courthouse on street is 25 cents an hour currently, and you can uh pay for the whole day 10 hours.

So if you wanted to park there all day, it'd be 250.

Um for the ASP Avenue parking lot, like we've talked about, it's a dollar an hour.

Um, and then uh for campus corner on street, it's also a dollar, and in that area, it was decided that uh you could pay for two hours maximum between eight and six, and then three hours maximum, obviously from six to nine because that's as far along as we enforce.

So you can see our uh recommendation or proposal for a discussion of possibly raising the East Grace Street and uh county courthouse on street parking from 25 cents an hour to 50 cents an hour, and then um that's really because uh it was 25 cents an hour when it was incepted, you know, 12, 13 years ago, um, especially in the Gray Street lot, and you know, costs of maintenance have gone up, staff costs have gone up.

Uh, I think uh Catherine did a good job on her slide talking about the trust and authorities of showing you the overall revenues and expenses for parking currently and how technically we're in a deficit, and that's something for council to be aware of, and if that's what how they want to how you all want to operate, that's fine.

But we want to maybe start making recommendations on how we could shore up that deficit and and make sure that parking is um not taking too much from rate at least and not taking too much from the general fund if we can avoid it.

Similar to transit, right?

Probably should and could pay for itself.

So we've had conversations about transit paying for itself, and so we want to maybe start thinking about that.

So that's the pro or our idea discussion point.

And then we've talked about the Asp Avenue parking lot.

It's uh the same as the on-street parking in the area.

We think because it seems underutilized, and because it's not the premium parking, maybe we should lower that incentivize people to park in the parking lot and walk in a little bit farther and see if that warrants some more interest in that lot, and that it couldn't hurt is what we were thinking.

And I think that's a can always sit back.

Yeah, so that's if we think that people see more parking happening there, it becomes more right now when it's always empty.

It seems kind of awkward.

Yeah, people kind of drive by it and go, Why is anybody park there?

Yeah, still need the light-up arrow-shaped sign that flashes public parking.

Yes.

But you know, and these are just suggestions, these are just things that we've that staff have looked at, and we're just bringing these for a starting point.

But we think that these are fair and in the parking I've done around town.

This is uh or around different towns, different cities.

This is still on the really low end uh of parking fees, but we think this could help us and also help us to still stay, you know, or as advantageous to have these public lots and public parking areas.

So yeah, yeah, it's like ten dollars.

Okay, see.

Yeah, that's to start.

Yeah.

Okay.

I mean, we're gonna have to increase the prices again down the road anyway, undoubtedly.

And if we haven't raised it in how many years?

Ever.

And so they start like parking is like the last thing you can get for a dollar.

And it is interestingly enough with the flowbird at uh you can put coins in there.

I don't know how many coins we actually want to collect, but not many.

Um through the digital process, it it I don't I mean, I use the app at events in OKC, and you don't really think about what the cost is, you plug it in and tell it how long you're gonna be there, and it's already connected to your debit or credit card, and it tells you at some point, hey, do you need to add some more time?

And I mean it's really so convenient.

The cost is kind of secondary.

So I have a question about uh um are there surcharges or taxes on using the flow bird system?

Yes, uh so for a credit card is there's a 35 cent transaction fee, and uh if you use the app, um that gets tacked on to your hourly cost.

Uh but if you use your credit card at the machine, what we do is we uh so for the for example for the gray street lot.

Um obviously if we if we uh sell it for 25 cents, uh just 25 cents.

I've been told that they can't tack on the the uh convenience fee at the machine.

All right, so we actually charge 75 cents minimum at the gray street lot, but you get three hours of parking.

Does that make sense?

So we cover the convenience fee uh within that 75 cents, but so a dollar an hour is not that significant different to what we're starting at already.

So it would make sense to just be a dollar so it's 25 cents an hour, but we were you were required you'd get at least three hours.

But they and they they may not use the complete time, which is you know it's fair or not fair, but uh that's just the way it's been done since I will say to the comment about the coins a vast majority of our revenue comes in through card or the app.

Uh Jason and I are actually the ones that go around picking up the coins, so some of them are a lot heavier than others.

Uh but we get uh it's probably a little more than a thousand dollars a month uh in coin revenue.

Well, we're bumping it up to an hour or sorry, a dollar an hour due for duck avenue that comes in.

So uh in my bloodbath of notes for that.

Um so we it's kind of hard to tell because you are gonna maybe have some people that won't park as long or pay as much.

Um do you have like a conservative end?

So we think with all the proposed changes, including the lease changes on the next slide, it's about 40,000 more.

Um but again that's a 50 cents right, but that's with all the changes, including the leases, and if you back out the if you back out the leases, uh and I should have done this on my way back from Tulsa thinking about this.

Uh it'd probably be about 10,000 more just on the 50 cents, I think, because the leases, as you're gonna see in a minute, is a a pretty good chunk of change if you uh increase those.

So thank you.

So anyway, on the 50 cents.

Okay.

Uh yeah, I was just gonna say I'm actually I park all over the place all the time in different cities, and this is absolutely the cheapest city to park in.

And uh I was gonna bring up this exact same thing that you had as an idea with the ex of the dollar an hour just straight across, with the exception of the courthouse, because I don't want to overcharge people that are there for court reasons.

So I would still be on board with 50 cents for that one, but a dollar an hour everywhere else would be exceptionally cheap still.

Well, um I do want to try out the 50 cents on ASP Street because at a dollar it's not being used very much right now.

And I would um and Scott, we can all disagree on this for sure.

I would recommend starting at the 50 cent the 25 cent increase on the other two areas just to just see how big it be just to ease into it.

Um I think we all know parking can get a little personal and we don't want to do anything major.

Uh that's just my recommendation.

Uh as someone has talked about this before about uh increasing the rates or metering main street, we just don't want to uh but if you all want to do that uh as a as a policy recommendation, and we can go out and test the waters for that for sure.

So if we do the 50 cents per hour, is it still gonna require a three-hour minimum?

I don't I need to play with that a little bit.

My my thoughts is that you would yeah, at least get two hours um just to cover that convenience fee, and yeah, it's it gets messy a little bit with that, but I mean the effective rate on a dollar being 35 cents is three and a half percent.

That's that's above the normal for what the industry standard is on merchant processing.

So if our average ticket price is a dollar and that makes our effective rate 350, then we need to figure out how to increase that.

So if we're gonna leave it at 50 cents an hour, then I think I would like for the three hour minimum to stay, and that way it further reduces what we're expending for the price of the service.

So just to just to clarify, the three-hour minimum would be a dollar fifty.

Yes.

Okay.

Is that at a dollar?

And I I don't I need to we asked this question of Flober.

I'm not sure we didn't get an answer back, but I would love to know why we can't add on the transaction fee at the meter.

Like that's just well in Oklahoma.

You should be able to do that now.

But I need to follow up with them.

If we can do that, then we could just attack it on.

So if you pay for 50 cents for the hour, you just you pay 85 cents right.

Or use the app at 50 cents an hour and two hour minimum, that makes your effective rate three and a half percent.

At a dollar fifty an hour, that makes it two point three percent.

So I mean that's a pretty significant savings over time.

That we're not we're obviously charging for parking for a reason.

Um and if Flowburn is making more of it and we're taking a loss, then that's not a so if I and I made that recommendation on the 50 cents an hour.

Don't want to just gloss over that without making sure that that's good with the count with council, and we can discuss that more if we need to.

But starting there, but with uh the minimum.

Okay.

And then we can have conversation with downtown.

I don't know if it's I know I get the point of the courthouse though, people that are in a tough time already.

Um, but yeah, when we've had discussions about doing meters on Main Street, um business is a bit concerned about it.

Costing a dollar more to come eat here or whatever.

So uh we can uh have that conversation about increasing the cost by 50 cents or 25 here, maybe another 50 or something.

But if everybody okay with Taylor working on that, and we'll get into timeline at the end.

This is just uh I think our fees are just adopted by resolution.

So you parking actually uh my understanding is the ordinance reads that the city manager has the authority uh if he so chooses to change the rates, times and things.

But the user doesn't choose without council's consent.

But that's why but that's but that's why we're here.

And if we can't um again going to the we're jumping ahead to implementation of timeline, but if we couldn't get to council with the uh update to the plan, we would obviously want consent and then uh maybe we could do that quicker or not so much if we didn't want to do this quicker.

So that means does that mean we could approve it in this body and then say Daryl do it and then do it.

And I'll double check on the ordinance and get with city attorney staff to make sure that the census among the council and definitely one reason why this exists though is to make sure we're all on the same page though.

That's typically been approved by council by resolution, exactly right.

Yes, by resolution, it would just be like on the consent part.

Yep, yeah.

So we that would be the go button, so it's good.

Okay.

Um for leases, uh again, going back to the the main the area page.

We have uh one current lease at the Gray Street lot for 41 spaces.

That's or that's the current option.

Um it's the same lease time for the hourly parking, so Monday through Friday, eight to six.

The current cost is four dollars four hundred dollars and fifty, four hundred dollars and fifty four hundred and fifty dollars.

Trying to add cents there.

Um so uh at 25 cents of the hourly rate.

Uh in the past, uh, I think the thought process was let's get to about 25% discount.

Um obviously, as you increase the hourly cost, then you're kind of getting into tiers of money that people may not be willing to pay for a annual lease.

So we just have some thoughts down there at the bottom in the bullets.

The $450 annual permit in the Grey Street lot currently represents a 28% discount at the 25 cents.

Um we are uh uh putting forth for discussion an increase of 150 dollars to six hundred, which if we raise it to 50 cents would be a 52% discount.

If you're parking there all day, Monday through Friday, your employee or whatever, that's that would be the discount.

And then uh again, we've talked about this for a couple of years, possibly putting in uh lease spots in the Asp Avenue parking lot.

We're thinking that north section of the lot, there's 21 spaces, not including the accessible space on the northwest corner.

Um would be about a 59% increase at $800 for the annual permit if it was 50 cents an hour if we lowered it, uh like we just talked about.

So again, these are just for discussion.

Would love some feedback on that.

Um trying to keep it as competitive as we can, but as fair as we can.

Um again, we're selling a commodity, we want to make sure we're um we're trying to get the revenue back to do the maintenance and the staff time, so just putting this worth for discussion.

I'm okay with it going to 600 and the gray street lawn since we seem to be okay with it going to 50 cents.

Um are we gonna make that ASP one 50 cents, or are we thinking still 25?

Well, the ASP one is currently a dollar.

Oh, okay.

So it would be astronomically more than uh if we did a 59% increase, it'd be double that, which again gets into the okay.

That's a big discount, but are people willing to pay it?

So I think there well, I was just gonna say I know there are people who want to build housing in this area and are interested in leasing spaces in the ASP lot.

So it it the value comes from the scarcity of availability.

And at the gray street lot, um, a bunch of the parking spaces are leased by um the state, uh OID's operation, they occupy a couple of floors in the Vista building, and the sheriff has some spaces, but every year the record we can literally lease all 153 spaces every year.

Um said if you have any more, we'll take them.

The sheriff said if you have any more, we'll take them.

And then uh downtown building owners who recognize they don't have any parking affiliated with their building.

Their tenants are saying, I'm not gonna pay more rent unless I get guaranteed parking.

And that's kind of what the driving force is behind uh vertical parking opportunities.

So yeah, I don't I don't really see our current uh customer base on the gray street lot blinking at going from 450 to 600 because the demand is overwhelming for the spaces.

And there is that balancing act.

Uh, I think we've talked about that before of uh publicly available hourly parking versus the annual lease parking, you know, leaving some spaces available for people to come and go.

And um so trying to to balance that out.

Um I I should have mentioned this.

The current process for the lease spaces in the gray street lot is a lottery-based system.

So you submit an application, um, pull names out of a hat more or less, and you get one.

And if you ask for more than one, there's more, you know, go through the process again.

That's the that that's the process we would replicate for the ASP lot until we had another process.

So council cancer.

And right now there's nobody lease some as lot at all.

There are no lease spots.

So, like with what Councilwoman Helen said nothing like that.

I believe that'd give us a good entry point to get somebody in there that way.

Then that's a selling point for when housing goes in, they're going, hey, look, they're already doing this, it works great for them, right?

You now get this, and if they use it to be able to show it off, kind of deal with it.

And kind of interesting difference between Gray Street and ASP.

If we did do the leases, is Gray Street is really just for business owners and their employees.

We've been talking a lot about housing in the campus corner area.

So we'd want to make sure uh that in the application process that we call out that is for businesses, employees, residential, if that's what council would like.

So just the who gets on.

And again, there's only 21, so we might um have some upset folks, but uh at least there are some available spots.

And then the other uh potential conflict point that I think I resolved this week was we currently lease the spot, the whole lot to campus corner merchant association during game days.

And I had a call with the uh with Carrie, the executive director, and uh obviously want to double triple check, but she thought they could uh get away with two-thirds of the lot, keep access open for those folks that had the leases on the north side through that left access point on the V canon, and then only utilize the middle row and the south row.

So hopefully we've compromised and got everybody happy there if we did move forward with the annual leases.

So I feel like we're sorry, I feel like we need if we're gonna approach it from an employees and public parking to residential use parking, then maybe that lease amount needs to be greater for people that are potentially coming home and not leaving for the entire weekend versus the turnover of what employees and the public would have.

Just to consider this could uh again for discussion, could be a starting point.

Obviously, we could come back a year from now and revisit it.

Uh but if everybody is good with this, we will take this as the initial amount and we'll we'll see how it goes.

And again, we'll talk about implementation here in a minute and what that looks like.

Uh but we don't want to miss the food truck part, uh, which we talked about um, I think at a backup meeting or was it C P and T.

I can't remember I get confused sometimes, but oh I'm sorry, C PNT I have it on my slide.

That's what I have it there for.

So we truck permitting, but yeah, we we've talked about it uh internally as public works and the legal staff and reviewing the options.

There are some considerations that uh we want to make sure we bake into this if we move forward and we can we make sure that we have ironed out.

So how many do we want to permit at a time?

Is it in a lot or is it on street?

I think that was mentioned.

Um and if it's on street uh or if it's in a lot, the balancing act of uh where those spaces are in terms of a brick and mortar in a food truck and making sure we're not um you know prioritizing one or or giving advantage over one or the other, we want to be cognizant of that as well.

So uh what type of lease is it is it just a monthly lease where okay, I want to try it for a month and then I don't want to do it again if it doesn't work out, or is it annual wherever it is?

If they need electricity, I know it's a lot of them use generators, but if they're more accustomed to that hard hardwire, that would increase cost of us allowing them to use our spaces uh for a food truck to work, obviously it's not a drive-thru.

You need people to walk up to it, so making sure they have the adequate access and the safety for pedestrians, and then um there are potential conflicts with the uh people that use our parking lots and on street parking for game days and or a music festival, etc.

So it couldn't just be a park it and leave it type situation for sure.

So those are some of the things we we need to flush out, and as you could see we were talking about we have a lot of other changes we want to implement, but this is one that um as we figure out can be baked into this document and make sure that we're all on the same page.

But uh I think there's still a lot to think about in terms of food trucks, and different food trucks are different sizes, some while they may fit in one parking stall because of the size of the physical trailer, you've got to be able to walk up to it.

So that means the next spot has to be open, and then where's the employee gonna park?

Okay, now that's three spaces.

Well, if it's a larger, the bigger van type.

Well, now that probably needs three spaces on its own, and then where's the employees gonna buy it?

It it there's just a lot that generates and it it gets it gets awkward, not that we can't address every one of those options in every one of those situations, but it's just something that we felt needs more study, more time and more concrete definition.

I mean, I was thinking like Asp Street lot could have one.

And maybe that's first come first, sir, maybe it's a lottery, I don't know.

Gray Street, because of its size, maybe you could have two that are allowed.

And my thoughts on where it would be so like the Tacovila on the in the parking lot on campus corner, the private parking lot.

It is in the corner in the there's a striped off in the corner where they couldn't fit any, couldn't put any parking spaces because then they couldn't get out.

And then I think it takes up one additional actual parking space.

So in total, it would be three parking spaces if that corner were parkable.

So it ends up only taking away I think one usable parking space because it's in that corner.

Um so that's kind of my thought on it.

Is if there's a corner of the parking lot where there's we don't really have that at the Squat.

All of the we have the ADA for the corners, so taking away the corner already.

So you'd have to be more towards the center, and you're talking about then three lots.

So you know, then we start doing the math from there, and then are they gonna require electricity?

We don't have electricity available for these food trucks at the end of the day.

I would probably say no, unless future improvements want to include improvements to parking lots want to include all those amenities.

Maybe that's something we'll want to do if we want to get more use them for more multi-purpose things besides just parking and and I you know, Gray Street, I think NMF it would be helpful if that did have that stuff.

Um but um but yeah, that would be the thing the minimal in in investment by the city as far as putting in electrical or anything like that.

It would be basically that this just allowed if there's a spot, it could be something that's allowed in a city-owned parking lot, but I can provide electricity, that would have to be on your own.

It could only take up minimal space, maybe um has to be in one of the corners, something like that would be what I have in mind.

Customer cancer.

I would just like to also bring in mind that if we get to the point that we let them tie into our electricity, that legal looks at that and ties in wordinesses.

Maybe their equipment works or don't work.

We've had the situation with our visit the hospital that they think now it's our responsibility.

So make sure that legal has something in there to protect the city and everything just in case.

But initially, we would probably say we're not doing it.

Yeah, yeah.

But in the future, if we have the capabilities just to protect us.

So gray street.

So we'd love to keep exploring it.

Uh definitely don't want to turn away any opportunities for for businesses or for you know uh additional revenue to come in, but we want to make sure that we're balancing everybody's needs and make it and that it's the right decision to because you know we're having lease spots, ADA spots, generally publicly available spots, then three spots are taken up by a food truck.

You know, it's just want to make sure we're balancing all those all those needs.

So yes, okay, okay.

And Beth, did we need anything else?

I know you were helping us with this.

I just don't want to miss any direction we need.

Yeah, okay.

Okay, yeah, primarily just allowing flexibility in city policy for us to do it.

Okay, how it's done, yeah.

Maybe some more discussion about that.

And I think the on-street too.

If we delved into the on-street, that that gets even more complicated.

Yeah, no, I'm not so much seeing it as that perfect.

Well, mainly just the parking lots.

Um, because just the seeing that one on campus corner would be really successful, right?

Um, being in the corner of that parking lot, it's the only one there, it's it's open late.

Obviously, meeting a need, yeah.

And so uh so and yeah, if it can generate revenue from the parking lot when at two in the morning, yeah, yeah, that's pretty good.

So okay, um, so for next steps, uh obviously we want to incorporate any feedback from council now and into the future, um, keep finalizing draft of the new management plan.

Um, this is the quick turnaround timeline, so we can play it as as much as you guys are comfortable.

But uh, and we're running out of council meetings, so I hinted at earlier.

So we're council review and reproval, possibly this winter, late this year, early next year.

And uh, with that, again, like we said, if we get consensus, maybe we're we're comfortable doing that quicker without council uh approval of the plan.

The soonest we could do any of these things would probably be January 1st, which makes sense with the alignment of the calendar year, and uh we get a little a few nuances uh, especially with the leases.

So the current Gray Street parking lot lease operates on a calendar year, so we are right at the edge of we need to get notices out, ask for applications, get all that going.

We're we need to do that probably right now.

So if we're gonna increase increase the lease for that and possibly start an ASP Avenue lot lease for uh the calendar year, we should we should do that now.

Yeah, I will say that we could push the gray street lot out if you wanted to to if you make that more comfortable where we start next calendar year, that's a year away, obviously, and the ASP Avenue lease because we don't have it currently, and we'll have to put up signage and and maybe do some education on that.

We could start it maybe mid-year, maybe July 1 for the Asp Avenue parking lot, and then redo it again in January to align with the gray street lot just to make sure all our ducks in a row so that prorate it, pro rate it, yeah, for that part of the year.

Yeah, and in the event we're under vertical construction and it's halfway through a lease period.

I mean, we could refund it.

There will be inconvenience, obviously, if we're we're going up, uh, that means the ground level's not going to be available for probably uh 180 days during that that construction period.

But these are people we have relationships with through the leases, so it wouldn't be a problem to make sure they are whole, and then hopefully there are long-term tenants once vertical construction is complete.

And with these timelines, if we if we were to wait a year to do gray street and do it January 27 in that time frame, we would know about vertical construction if we had that where we were at with that and be able to be able to respond to that, and also on the as bot be able to give us time to react appropriately to those decisions, also on that.

So on the leases, it we could play with that timeline a little bit.

What we wanted to discuss that and what you guys were all comfortable with, but um well, I'd like to be able to um to be able to lease out the spaces on AST for residential development that's happening right now, yeah, if possible.

Okay, and so if I'm just asking the question here because the residential brings up a very different question at that point, you know, I if I'm living there, I would want to know year to year that there's a chance I could get a lottery pick to get a reserve spot in the parking lot.

Yeah, so at that point, I think again, if we're really gonna look at this more as a residential structure, I think we need to start looking at more longer term to be able to satisfy satisfy the needs of those tenants and the property owners.

So that's I think that kind of really shifts this discussion just a little bit because now instead of looking at annual leases, we're looking at long-term leases because obviously you don't you can't.

Oh, sorry, we're not gonna give it to you next year, and now we've lost somebody.

And I I do believe in center city.

If you're going to do all street, I think that there's a time.

There's a I don't think you can you gotta have solution for a certain time frame, but I can't swear to that because that's not something I really concentrate on.

I know none of the none of the projects in our construction right now are approved based on be having access to this parking lot, so they're having to do that other ways already.

So we just know that there's interest in overflow or whatnot, and like there to be a way to do that, and then make money off that parking lot.

And that could be the understanding, like they if they go forward with a proposal for development, they can't rely on this lot long term, it's just that a year.

And we likely will get some pushback and some discussions on that as I see it's at least available, so that will be the conversation we'll have to have with castor brands are in the money.

Yeah, I would like to explore the residential, just thinking towards the future.

Um, and I understand too like the ask what we are envisioning going with a vertical structure eventually, and that would really mess up uh parking spots for housing if it gets built before that structure is so and to Council Member Grant's point.

I've asked uh Mrs.

Kaplan to begin uh inquiries into uh property owners and their desire for a number of spaces at both ASP and Gray Street, uh, in the hopes that uh we'll eventually wind up with letters of intent for a fixed number that'll give us an indication about how tall we need to go, and that'll be great for the bond market to recognize the the demand is there and the revenue streams already baked in.

Yeah, and then we could start collecting TIFF revenue from campus corner when there's a parking solution.

I did actually ask Mrs.

Walker to uh prepare to advance to council that conversation about the east main tax increment financing uh district um too, and then the connectivity of the former uh campus corner TIFF adjacent to center city, and if that's an extension, the value of having a TIFF in place just as a long-term backstop for any financing that really makes the bond market happy.

Well, I campus corner was just it wasn't included because we came to that agreement on we wanted to limit the height in campus corner, and it's which was a buy right allowed what they had already.

We wanted to put in a height limit.

I didn't want to, but the committee wanted to put in a height limit on campus corner, so in exchange for taking away that right that they have right now to build as tall as they want, we say, but we'll give you a parking solution.

So until then though, there's the TIF campus corner won't be in the TIFF boundary, the center city tip.

I mean, and look I feel like some things have changed, and I feel like market drives the height of the buildings, so I don't really want to saw a seven-story a seven-story application on wood like I'd rather not have a height limit on campus corner and get it into the TIFF boundary than have to wait until a parking structure is constructed, because even ambitiously that could still be several years, and that's just TIFF revenue.

But if anything gets developed on campus corner, we're not getting the center city TIFF is not getting that, it's not getting any of the sales tax revenue from the campus corner area anymore.

So we could be putting that we could be having that revenue to go into the parking structure.

So that might be a discussion for some Ward 4 folks about is there really that big of a deal about having a height limit of five stories on campus corner?

Melari is five stories.

I mean don't have a problem with the height, but I understand the sensitivity.

On the side where the neighborhood is, yes, but like next to the deli, does there need to be a five-story height limit?

And if not, that was the only reason we made that deal for the parking structure.

Not including campus corner in the tip.

So even five stories, you could solve a lot of problems.

You know, that's that's a bunch of additional um acreage at the end of the day for info.

So yeah, Valari could have been 50 stories and didn't require any new parking under the C3 zoning.

So for the ASP lot, I think there's some things to maybe still figure out if we want to do residential long term or not, is what I'm hearing.

So maybe we are we comfortable pushing that to July 1 and talking through that some more and maybe doing that for a prorated rate for half the year, or is that for that?

Yeah, okay.

And then on weight or whatever.

Yeah.

And then for the gray street lot, uh we could increase it now.

It's changing the number on the notice that we send out, um, which may you know garner some attention, but uh we haven't sent out those notices or the city clerk's office has for January 1st or January 1st we can certainly if we're comfortable with that.

Yep, we can tweak that Monday.

I believe the demand that you're talking about is gonna make sure that we have plenty of people for the lottery, no matter what the price tag is on there.

Yeah, for the there's there's so much demand for it right now that somebody's gonna take it.

And that leads me to the the increase in the gray street parking lot for the hourly to show them that it is that 52% discount.

We obviously want to coincide with that increase of January 1.

So we would work with Flohberg to uh we can't do the programming on our side uh yeah, it's in the works, but we have to ask and pay them to do that programming, unfortunately.

So we could send in that request, and I think we have to at least give them 30 days, so I think we can get that done by January 1 for Gray Street lot.

Yes, and obviously we'd want that to coincide with the county courthouse, so everything's good, and then there's no reason to not lower the ASP Avenue hourly rot to fit lot to 50 cents so January 1.

So is that everything January 1 except for the ASP Avenue parking lot lease, which could be July 1st as we talk about it more?

Yeah.

We have actually okay.

Well, I appreciate the discussion.

I know this is uh there's not very many slides, but there's a lot going on in the background for all these things, and it's that can be a tough topic, so I appreciate all the feedback.

Yeah, I appreciate the work of the staff on that and look forward to uh further updates.

Okay, anything else on this topic for me about it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

All right, item number three is a discussion regarding possible vacation of an alleyway between Reed Avenue and Cook if you had it pull up our feet, yeah.

Not vacation.

Well, yeah, vacation yeah, you want to have a tropical vacation round special.

We should have more.

Okay, uh this was added to your agenda yesterday.

This is something that staff has kind of been struggling with and trying to uh find a solution for.

We're talking about the alleyway between Reed and Cook, and it kind of goes, it's hard to see on here in a T shape.

You see this the houses on the north end facing Main Street, and then there's an alley there, and then an alley between Reed and Cook running south.

Um we have had uh encampments in this alleyway, it's an unimproved alleyway, so dedicated to the city back in 1910, but not really utilized uh by trash trucks or anything like that.

Um completely unimproved.

It's been creating issues for neighbors.

There have been encampments with 30 to 40 people at times in the alley, trash used syringes, shopping carts, things like that.

And and we've engaged in an effort over the last year or so with uh uh Central Oklahoma Community Mental Health Center, Code Department, PD, sanitation, uh, all working together to try and get some cleanups done, but the problem continues uh even despite those efforts.

Um as I said, it's unimproved property, but it is a public alleyway.

Um I will show you in a minute the the plat for that.

This is uh pictures from one of the cleanups, so you can see they're on the left, sort of the the breadth of the encampment uh along that alleyway and along these folks' backyards, and then on the right there you see uh some needles that they found, uh thankfully in a plastic bottle, but uh lots of used needles uh found during that effort.

Um I thought I had the let me see.

One of my slides disappeared.

I had the plat up there, but it's it just showed that T shape.

Um it's later.

Okay.

Um, so the possible solution that we've kind of come up with is vacating this alleyway.

And in the city, we do that two different ways.

We first close it through the city process.

That's set forth in a resolution adopted back in 1982.

Is it the one north of Ufala or south?

North.

Yeah.

Um, and so that would mean council would get a resolution declaring your intent to close uh that alleyway.

We would then provide notice to planning commission.

Um city departments could weigh in franchise holders.

We know that there are our own utilities back there that we want to be mindful of, but we give notice to departments and franchise holders to make sure we were aware of all utilities that might be within that easement so we can account for that in the closure and in the vacation.

Um we then are required to mail notice to the property owners, everyone abutting the alley, and everyone within 300 feet of the alley, publish it in the newspaper, then it would go to planning commission and then to council.

And I've got here the timeline uh because we are running short on meetings, as Taylor said.

Uh November 25th would likely be the resolution declaring the intent to close if that's the direction you all want us to go in.

And then planning commission in January, first and second reading in February.

After that, we then go to district court to get it vacated there, and that would make sure that the property records all note that vacation.

Uh, you file a verified application with the district court, you set a hearing date, at least 35 days out, uh, and then you publish notice in the newspaper, you serve notice on all the potential interests, the county, the city, the franchise holders, and mail notice to all the owners within 300 feet of the alley.

Um, the nice thing is if it is uh um vacated, state law provides that that it returns to the abutting property owners.

So it's essentially a 20-foot alley.

There it is.

Uh 20-foot alleyway, and so 10 feet would go to the property owners on either side.

Um, and so that would be a gain for them.

Um, and we believe uh we've got some CDBG funds that we've identified that are available to help re-establish that fence line.

Uh so that's something good for the property owners as well.

Castro grant.

I was just curious how we talked to any of the property owners that share that alley.

I know that we've had conversations with property owners that have called in with complaints and things, but our plan is if council wants to move forward based on this timeline.

We have some time to start with door hangers or or putting something on each door and mailing to the proper owners to get feedback.

We don't know for sure, we don't think anyone is using the alleyway for access to their property, but there might be the potential for that.

Right.

This is the piece that's in the middle that's really not even visible on the map.

Yeah, when you look at the GIS map, it's really hard to tell it's even an alley.

Um I would say I took a tour of this alley with a resident like in 2023.

Um, and I did notice like gas meters in the back.

So uh is definitely one of the utilities back there.

Yeah, so um, and interestingly enough, um in we have lots of even brand new neighborhoods where the utilities are run on one side or the other of the backyard fence.

Uh, and we got notification that Oklahoma Natural Gas is actually investing big dollars to move meters from the backyard fence line up to side yards just for kind of uniformity.

So new construction, they're all in the side yard.

We have some neighborhoods where they're sticking out there by the curb, which is kind of an interesting place for a meter, and in some of our older neighborhoods, um, whenever there's a uh an opportunity or a need, ONG is actually sending in crews to pull it uh up to the side yard and get it out of that you know depth.

Yeah, I was wondering how that might work with new fencing.

So yeah, and that's something we encounter a lot and especially in uh older parts of town where the utilities are in the back, and so when we move forward with this process, we we will have to ensure we account for any easements that are needed for the utilities, and then the fence line will have to allow for um room for those utilities.

It could be they can't block access.

Oh, yeah, 11 feet for one side, nine feet for the other, depending on where the meters all exist.

So it looks like the T is already blocked off from Reed Avenue.

There's a fence on the this side of the T there.

That could have just been a couple of homeowners saying they're tired of the traffic and yeah, it feels like a little weird labyrinth back there when you walk it, and there are definitely signs of like when somebody set a fire for warmth, obviously, but you can just see the activity back there is uh it's an attractive nuisance.

It's also definitely one of the go-to place when the pace team starts coming by the pavilion late at night to run them off after four and everything when it's too cold or hot and everything, they kind of tend to hang in that alley quite a bit where they migrate to normal places that they would choose for the evening and everything like that.

Yeah, and legal notices required to the property owners, but we know that these are not all owner occupied, and so depends the other way.

We have we want to do some outreach and make sure that we're we're providing some notice to the residents as well.

One thing that I would like to add, and these owners over here have put up with the lot and have been through a lot with their surroundings already, and everything like that too.

So any assistance that we're able to find to help with that fence to re-establish that is going to be a great thing because I think a lot of them would not put up any fence at all if they had to do it on their own.

Therefore, you just have an abandon alley now that somebody else is probably side of the cities.

Yeah.

Yeah, the fence is gonna have to be a little bit of a few.

The fence I think would help a lot over there.

I do think there's some properties again.

It was 2023, so maybe they fixed their fences, but I did remember there were some broken fences over there.

Yeah.

Yeah, a lot of them.

All right.

Uh you had any objection to staff proceedings?

Is there the ability to trespass people that are in that alleyway now?

By the residents.

Our our pace team actually made the request that we move towards the abandonment because I think um there's other illegal activity happening in the alley that give the pace team uh some tools to help remedy the situation.

Um, but it's so it's not signed for no trespassing.

And it's city owned, so the residents couldn't trespass people from that.

Uh blocking an alleyway or street is the ordinance that would be enforced under obstruction.

Inactic alleyway.

Or the city themselves would have to sign up for the pace program besides at each end.

Um questions?

Okay, well, I think the consensus is to proceed.

We appreciate you.

Thank you for that, though.

That's gonna be helpful there a lot.

Yeah.

Okay, anything else from anybody?

No comments, those.

All right.