City of Norman Finance Committee Meeting - December 18, 2025
City of Norman Finance Committee Meeting - December 18, 2025
The Norman City Finance Committee convened on Thursday, December 18, 2025, with a focus on the final financial reports presented by City Manager Francisco before his retirement, followed by a comprehensive presentation from The Salvation Army regarding their proposed shelter expansion and renovation projects.
Consent Calendar
- No formal consent calendar items were listed in the transcript; discussions regarding routine approvals were integrated into the narrative.
Public Comments & Testimony
- The Salvation Army Leadership (Lieutenant Corey Doggett, Major Paul Ryerson, and Board Chair Kurt):
- Position on Inclusivity: Stated they do not discriminate based on religion, sexual orientation, or criminal history (excluding sex offenders), and that attending religious services is never required to receive shelter or food. They emphasized that ID is requested but not required for entry, and they assist guests in obtaining identification.
- Position on Operations: Described their shelter as a "low barrier" facility, distinguishing it from "no barrier" shelters by maintaining minimum safety rules (e.g., prohibiting intoxication, drugs, and weapons on premises) to ensure safety for families and children.
- Position on Funding: Expressed gratitude for community donations, clarifying that 100% of disaster relief funds raised in the community stay locally, and approximately 83 cents of every general dollar raised stays local, with minimal administrative fees sent to national headquarters.
- Position on Timeline: Committed to a rigorous internal approval process to ensure projects are fully funded before breaking ground, aiming for no debt or mortgages.
Discussion Items
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Revenue and Expenditure Reports (City Manager Francisco):
- Use Tax Collection: City Manager Francisco reported that December use tax collections were strong enough to return the city to the black for the fiscal year on this line item, though overall growth remains flat at -0.5% compared to the budget.
- Position on Compliance: Council members expressed concern regarding retailers evading use tax by exploiting the South Dakota v. Wayfair loophole (sales under $100,000). The Finance Committee discussed the inability to track these unreported small retailers, noting that while the city has visibility on zip codes, there is no current mechanism to enforce collection on non-reporting small businesses.
- Overtime Tracking: Clarification was provided that overtime expenditures for public safety are tracked in specific funds (General Fund vs. Public Safety Sales Tax Fund). Council members inquired about tracking hours of overtime for crew rest purposes, but City Staff indicated that individual employee hours used are not public information and are managed internally by supervisor discretion and union agreements.
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Salvation Army Shelter Expansion Proposal:
- Project Description: The Salvation Army outlined a three-phase plan to expand their Norman shelter and community center. Phase 1 involves new construction for a dining facility with an on-site commercial kitchen. Phase 2 involves renovating the existing shelter to repurpose the current kitchen space into additional family housing units. Phase 3 (the "dream" phase) involves a major expansion of shelter space, estimated at $10 million.
- Position on Funding: The organization stated they are seeking approximately $1.62 million in donations to fund Phases 1 and 2. They reiterated their policy of only breaking ground when 100% of funds are secured in the bank.
- Timeline Goals: If funding is secured with the projected cost of $1.62 million, the team targets a groundbreaking in February 2026, with completion estimated for November or December 2026 (8-9 month timeline).
- Zoning and Permits: The group confirmed that Phases 1 and 2 have already been permitted and approved by the City's planning department, covering lot combinations and zoning requirements. No additional zoning changes are required for the approved plan.
- Community Context: Discussions addressed concerns about adjacent properties (liquor store and marijuana shop), with Salvation Army representatives noting they have no jurisdiction over neighboring landowners but remain committed to providing 24/7 services regardless of surroundings. They also clarified partnerships with Trinity Legal, Catholic Charities, and OU Food Kitchen.**
Key Outcomes
- Financial Review: The committee acknowledged the strong performance of December use tax collections, though concerns remain regarding the systemic gap in collecting use tax from small, unregistered online retailers.
- Project Approval Status (Internal): The Finance Committee was informed that Phases 1 and 2 of the Salvation Army project are fully permitted by the city. The committee noted the Salvation Army's strict financial discipline (no debt) and is awaiting the final contractor cost confirmation to proceed with the fundraising and groundbreaking process.
- Data Sharing: The Salvation Army confirmed membership in the HMIS (Homeless Management Information System) for partner agencies, specifically for tracking Emergency Solutions Grant (ESG) recipients, and outlined their low-barrier intake policies.
- No Action Items: No formal votes or directives were recorded in this transcript; the meeting served as an informational briefing and progress update. The committee plans to continue monitoring the fundraising progress and contractor negotiations for the February target.
Meeting Transcript
I say RL3 and you guys can do that. Yeah, if there's another council where they can fill in over there, mayor I don't know. So yeah, you're all good right there. That's not even these evening. Thank you, Bryce. Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to the City of Norman uh City Council Finance Committee meeting on Thursday, December 18th, 2025. We're gonna flip the agenda a little bit and let Mr. Francisco first, as his agenda item is currently number two, but this is his last finance community meeting ever, and he's in a rush to start retirement. So we will let him let him address by all means. So uh starting with agenda item number two. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and it's really my gotta pick up my granddaughter for her basketball game. But anyway, um so on the revenue and expenditure reports that are in your packet. Um, I will just highlight the one thing that we had um for the month of December that's not reflected here that we had a really good use tax collection month that got us back into the black uh for the fiscal year on use tax. So that was really good. Um, continues to be flat, but not um inexorably, so it's like negative 0.5 percent for the year. Um, so it's kind of unlike right on what we budget. What we budgeted is not good, but uh, but but at least we're not below that. So I'll just try to respond to any questions that you might have on the revenue and experience reports. Yes, sir. Yeah, I've still like to have a little bit of insight from the state about use tax and the confidence in allocating those funds now. I don't know who we contact in the state, but I'm just curious more than anything. I want that confidence that hey, the system's operating at 95-90 percent as far as flow flow that collection and flow. Yeah, and and all that I can say related to that is that um companies and online retailers that are quote unquote voluntarily complying. Um we're very confident that they're reporting properly. What we're not confident in is those retailers that are um fitting through the loophole in the in the um South Dakota versus Wayfair case, um, where if you have less than 100,000 worth of sales in the state, then you don't have to collect sales tax in the form of use tax and then admit it to the to the city that you're delivering the goods to. And and a lot of retailers we think might be over that hundred thousand dollar limit. A lot of retailers that you know we would like to be collecting because we know that mechanically they can't, but that's the that's the concern with use tax, and and uh so it's it's kind of a yes and no answer, but but we're very confident that those that are complying are complying correctly. We're not we're not fully in compliance though. I would think the state would would be able to echo that and show show hey, we're we believe the ones that are at the hundred thousand point thousand mark that yeah, there is percentage that we're not collecting, and we think it's this because of this. They would have some type of procedures to give the health of that. I'm just curious more than anything else. Okay, what's the missed opportunity there, state, and then what are you doing about it? Yeah, it's just anecdotal because remember that if you're under that limit, you don't have to report at all. So the state tax commission has the same vested interest that we do, but they just don't know, and I don't think anybody can know how many retailers are out there that are just not reporting at all. Okay, I think we should ask the question. Absolutely. Yeah, just um wanted to note the looks like this was the second best to again about like how things can look in comparison to something. Um last year was the best December that we've had in the last eight budget years, going back to 2018 on this chart, and uh this this December reflecting October was the second best that we've had in the last eight years, only second to last year's. So it it looks like it's down, which it is, but it's down compared to the best December that we've had in the last eight years, last year. So that's my favorite chart to look at every month because you can see the whole history going back to the FY 2019 FYU 2019 budget. And so and then yeah, just on the city comparison and the state being down by five percent so far, over five percent so far, and um that being just uh interesting data point and wondering why if it's the grocery tax or I suspect that it is, and I think the grocery tax should start to um the the year comparison will be uh as of next month, I believe. Um that will start to wash itself out. Okay, but yeah, um is interesting, council member, right? When it comes to collecting that tax and knowing who's paying it and or not, how how do we find that out? Like when somebody knows reporting. I mean, if they make a report to the state tax commission, we have preview to that information. The concern is retailers that are not reporting at all because they're not collecting the tax and remaining it to the state, i.e. the city, so so we have no way of knowing. But but but for example, if you have a new um favorite retailer in you know that's making purses and shipping them to um Wisconsin.
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