Finance committee meeting of Thursday, January 15th, 2026.

Councilmember Heekle is uh out.

So he asked me to fill in for that.

And we've got two items on the agenda.

The first one is a discussion regarding the mid-year budget review.

And we have him here.

First meeting as current finance director.

Place budget manager.

Somebody's filling in that role in a semester.

So thank you for being here.

And um we'll go ahead and get started.

Thank you, Mayor.

I'm Kim Kaufman, uh budget manager.

Uh trying to step in for Anthony uh for the purpose of the finance committee meeting.

Um for the mid-year budget review.

Um, I have a little packet for everybody.

Um the mid-year budget review serves a few different purposes.

Um, first it gives council a picture of uh the city's funds after the uh prior year audit has been completed and allows council to uh course correct if need be.

And then it also asks council the question of whether or not they want to add funds to the ready day fund or uh take funds from the ready day fund.

So we'll jump right in with uh the handout of the city's uh major funds right now looking at the general fund.

Um, and stop me at any time if you have any questions.

I have some um cells highlighted here that I want to draw your attention to.

So on line 16, uh this is looking at uh fiscal year 25 estimated compared to fiscal year 25 actual, which is our our audit audited figures.

Um you can see that revenue came in slightly below um estimated for fiscal year 25.

Um, but expenses also came in slightly below.

We had a lower subsidy to the PSST fund than anticipated, uh, due to um purchase orders that haven't been paid yet, and so all that comes together to um give us an ending fund balance of 11.6 million, which is about 400,000 less than budgeted, and then right below uh that was on line 65.

Right below that we see our reserve for encumbrances at 3.5 million.

Those are POs that were created in fiscal year 25 and potentially prior that haven't been paid yet.

So they're still um they were budgeted for in fiscal year 25, uh, but they're not going to hit fund balance until they're actually paid.

So the uh expenditures probably the less than spent less than correct, right?

That's that's the main difference between on line 47 where you see the uh transfer PSST fund 2.6 million compared to what we actually transferred to PSST to bring keep them in the black, 212,000.

It's because they didn't spend all of their purchase orders, they didn't fully liquidate them.

The PSST didn't need as much of a subsidy.

Correct.

So we didn't spend as much, okay.

But the PSST does continue to not generate enough to cover that is correct, yes.

Which I know it was never it was always gonna be blended in, but just for discussion's sake, it has obligations and the tax itself doesn't generate enough to cover all of it by itself.

That's correct, especially since the additional four SROs were at it.

That's right.

Okay, those are you mentioned too that there were some purchase orders that haven't been fulfilled.

Yes, they've been created, but we haven't been invoiced for them yet, and or the the merchandise hasn't arrived, been delivered.

Um roughly how much is that?

Sorry if I missed it you saying that earlier.

No, you're fine, it's on line uh 67.

Okay.

So in fiscal year 25 and potentially prior to that, we have outstanding purchase orders that haven't been paid yet.

And that's usually like if something's on back order or if we haven't received an invoice yet.

So we're reserved for encumbrances that were yes, and that's 3.5.

Yes, as of the end of fiscal year 25, it was 3.5.

And as we go through the budget development process, we'll review all of those, and if any of those a purchase order was issued, but the project's not gonna happen or the purchase isn't gonna happen.

We'll cancel the PO and the dollars that were reserved for it, they stay in fund balance and move forward to the next fiscal year available to council.

And you'll see that difference also um in columns B and C.

Um B is uh fiscal year 26 adopted and C is 26 estimated.

And when you go down to rows 32 through 38, you can see some jumps between the budgeted figures for those uh expense lines and the estimated, and those are um prior year encumbrances that have inflated the budget to be spent.

So they did have council approval, it was just council approval in a prior budget year.

So supplies of materials by almost a million, correct services and maintenance by 600,000 or so 500,000.

Um capital equipment by almost two million and any I mean, some of those explain I mean things cost a lot more.

I can see some of that.

So any other reason details.

Um it mostly reflects just timing when when we thought we were gonna uh be able to complete the transaction, and it's very common that either projects or capital acquisition, they do string out over one or two budget cycles.

Uh Kim and Clinton and I were having a conversation this afternoon as it relates to the capital portion of your general fund budget.

And um my guess is even prior to the mayor's tenure on council, it was voter approved that seven tenths of a percent of our sales tax revenue would be earmarked specifically for capital.

And to give you that's about 18 million dollars worth of general fund revenue that the voters have said we don't want you to use it for operation capital only.

Um it's wonderful because we have dollars available to help us achieve the capital needs that every organization has.

The challenge when it has a real hard string attached or a real hard earmark is that we have no flexibility on 18 million dollars of general fund revenue.

Without that restriction, if your general fund revenue picture was 18 million dollars bigger, you can recognize oh, yeah, we have a really comfortable budget position.

Um, and what we see over time, umpportunities that present themselves to council during the course of the fiscal year after budget adoption are often capital in nature.

A real property acquisition opportunity uh presents itself, or um a sidewalk project, or there's a grant, but we need a match, those dollars do come out of that uh 18 million or roughly seven-tenths of a percent of uh so there's a good side and a challenging side to it.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay.

So that brings us to uh fiscal year 26 um column C estimated beginning fund balance on row one.

Uh we did uh adopt a budget assuming we would have a beginning fund balance of just over 12 million.

Um after uh 25 was audited, we realized it was uh 11.6 million, so kind of a 400,000 dollar drop there.

Um, and then moving down to uh the transfer section, uh rows 47 through uh 55.

You can see that um in column C compared to column B, our subsidies did increase a little bit because those funds required um more funding to keep them in the black.

So in the case of the PSST fund, because they uh were paying on some of their outstanding purchase orders from prior year.

Um they actually required a 1.4 uh million dollar subsidy in excess of what was budgeted.

Um, and then the insurance fund you'll see on a later page, you'll see the the PSST fund on a later page as well, but um health claims were higher than anticipated, and just six months into the fiscal year.

So they're already uh requiring an $800,000 subsidy stay in the black.

Um going through this budget development cycle, um what we're gathering early on is that uh fuel cost, energy cost appear to be uh stationary or going down.

Um, and we have uh you know large fleet operation and fuel and and those parts uh do make up a bunch of our internal service funds that we charge out to everyone.

Uh, and to see those costs not going up on a screen.

What we're hearing from uh the business community in Norman, uh, those who do offer uh health benefits to their employees uh this morning in uh a meeting with uh a handful of different businesses.

I heard numbers of our health insurance is going up between 20 and 27 percent next year.

So it's we we we had some ideas as to what might be driving that, and and we've heard about you know federal intervention on the price of prescription drugs.

Are companies cranking up that number to get as much in the bank as they can before uh federal government cap uh maxes out their revenue opportunity, maybe uh we do recognize that even at the state of Oklahoma, the attorney general's office is doing some investigation and into some insurance companies on uh various types of claims, so there is volatility in the world of insurance.

We are self-insured, but we still purchase insurance in the market, uh, what we refer to as the stop loss.

So if we incur a big hit, we're we're capped at what we'll pay out of pocket before a third party kicks in and covers that expense.

Um I remember a prior conversation with staff about maybe doing some prescriptions with Norman Regional.

It is a public shop TV.

Uh is there any savings to be had?

Uh um so we were we were three or four steps down that road, uh, and then there was a large administrative upheaval.

Um, it sounds like dust is beginning to settle where we might be able to reapproach.

Uh, I believe the uh gentleman that we met that is the the pharmacist for the whole hospital system who administers that pharmaceutical program for Norman regional employees um was absolutely open to the idea of being able to satisfy those uh needs of our employees and dependents as well.

Um, and they were looking at the mutual benefit of our participating in their prescription program is they would achieve um critical mass uh to allow them to move into a bigger pharmaceutical space that provides better access to their folks and better access to our folks.

So before the end of this fiscal year, we'll be able to uh reapproach Norman Regional.

Uh now that it sounds like they're they have a little time to focus not just on putting on fire, but actually business model.

There is there is discussion that within six months, Norman Regional building an outdoor pharmacy that will be kind of semi-attached to the hospital and everything for general public also, so we'd make it easier to get those paid up and stuff.

Yep.

That does line up with where we were in conversation prior to the would it be out of lower costs?

Yes.

Okay.

So better access, lower prices.

Absolutely.

All right, let's hope that works out.

Um but 804,445 over what we budgeted for insurance just in the first six months since July.

And what we are seeing um and in conversations with um neighboring agencies in the metro, um life is better, apparently, with better pharmaceuticals.

Our prescription drug costs are growing, but um dollars spent on actual doctor visits and hospitalization are going down.

So the drugs do cost more, but if it means less time in the hospital, it probably means more time back at work and productivity.

And you know, some of the cities in the metro are telling us they're seeing the same thing.

Um, I think a little bit of it has to do with when pharmaceutical companies advertise on television and you say, ooh, that I think they you know begin to self-diagnose, and then you start talking to your doctor about how do I get into some of that.

Um, and and uh hopefully the federal recognition that you know uh US prescription buyers were paying more than uh uh other buyers in other parts of the world, that yeah, we should be able to receive the benefits of the RD that took place uh in the U.S.

So it's expensive.

We don't see a big um improvement in that market space in the upcoming fiscal year, but it uh we're optimistic on the horizon that we'll start to see that curve and go the right direction.

And it still makes sense for the city of Norman to be uh self-insured.

It does, and we check that uh annually with our broker uh Gallagher and have them, if we were to buy a shelf plan uh generically equal to um our plan document, this is the most cost effective way to do it.

Well just I'm glad we're able to cover our employees for sure.

That's that's enough to fund the shelter for a year.

That's enough to fund the on-demand transit service for a year.

And with HIPAA, um, we don't necessarily know the who, but in that world of health care, um one employee or one employee spouse, one premature baby is a million dollars, and it goes really, really quickly.

Um believe it or not, there are uh healthcare recipients in our system who have annual prescription drug costs in excess of a half a million dollars a year.

And it we don't get to know who we do know some of those prescriptions, and it's it's life or death.

I mean, you take this and you live another day and you don't take this and you're not with us anymore.

So uh it's it's a fascinating expensive piece of the benefits package.

Doesn't sound like a sustainable healthcare system to me, but uh it's not we're here to talk about it.

We won't solve it.

But I mean it does impact the city, and that's a lot of money.

Absolutely to have to just for that to even be an overrun.

And that for being half the year.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, and so public safety and then transportation 40,000.

So sorry, we put in a little over a million into the Mergency Reserve.

That's correct.

Well, it's it's part of the reserve of the general fund, yeah.

Um so that leaves us with uh 4.9 million in the ending fund balance estimated in the current fiscal year, um, 1.6 over the required 3% reserve for operations, and that's what uh we'll project for uh fiscal year 27 beginning fund balance.

Um, and then on row in column D, row three sales tax, uh kind of volatile.

I'm uh I'm thinking one percent increase, that's what I have projected here from uh current year budget.

We can change that.

This is just a preliminary um assumption, but if we do that and then we have a 4% increase in use tax, which we think we can realize, um, that brings our total revenue down to um 110.8 million.

But um we see we acknowledge that our dwindling um fund balance is an issue.

We need to build that back up to a healthier level.

So one option we have is to freeze expenses uh for fiscal year 27 at the current year levels, and that's what I have projected here.

Um what we describe that as uh in the budget development process is a rollover budget, and it it takes a lot of guesswork out of things to say, yep, what what you got last year is what you're gonna get next year, and we live within those means.

We adjust mid-year absolutely according to whenever council member grant.

So just for clarity, keeping all the things we have and and not adding anything else, and this is what it should be, unless something goes really off the rails, correct.

Or we get a windfall.

Um, you know, and interestingly enough, um where we see uh capital dollars coming in from other sources, and just in the past four weeks, we're looking at about 44 million dollars in capital funds through ACOG and through the federal government directly.

Um plus our $18 million annual, here's your sales tax for the seven tenths capital.

There's a lot of dollars.

What we look at is how much of our staff time do we spend actually working on those projects, and how much of their cost should be associated directly against those uh capital projects and be funded that way, as opposed to just at a general fund operating revenue.

So part of what is going into this year's budget development is a review of um all of our capital project engineers and project managers, how much of their time are we coding off to the projects they're working on, which is an allowable, acceptable cost uh to make sure we stay on the right track.

And a lot of those uh federal and state grants, they give you a this is how much you get to code off for administrative overhead right off the top, and we should absolutely take advantage of the administrative overhead component just to make sure we have the bodies to move those capital projects forward.

So very intentional, a little bit uh volatile, like on you know, in sales tax.

What we are seeing, and and we remember where we were like in fines and forfeitures, which the lion's share could come from municipal court and speeding tickets, generically speaking.

COVID happens.

We were hesitant to knock on your car window and be face to face with a driver to say, hey, you're speeding.

And traffic enforcement like that, it slowed way down, and the revenue for fines and forfeitures dropped off pretty dramatically.

That's not really part of the program anymore.

Uh, without COVID, uh, we're getting back to where we were pre-COVID in terms of traffic enforcement.

And when we think about dollars lost in a community, lives lost in a community, safer driving.

Um, it saves the community money long term and saves lives.

So not only is there a benefit on the revenue side, there is a benefit to uh life saved and and property saved that way too.

So a lot of activity, it's a busy budget cycle.

Um, it's definitely more challenging when your sales tax isn't growing by eight percent, but that's what we're here for.

Council grant.

And then I was gonna say the projection between uh column C and D on wastewater.

Uh we're gonna be having a discussion in the future about rate increase.

You continue to uh just keep staff warm and fuzzy with what you have absorbed and what you continue to track.

Um what you'll see here on the revenue side is the franchise fee that we collect from our utilities, and um one of the conversations that Kevin Clinton and I had this afternoon.

Um, when we issue debt, the uh bond council uh will list in the official statement hey, if you're gonna buy this bond, we want to assure you that the revenues we're gonna collect to make bond payments, we will collect 125% of the revenue necessary to make your bond payment.

That gives them the comfort to buy our bonds, and Chris goes out and builds water infrastructure and wastewater infrastructure.

We watch our revenue picture in those enterprise funds closely to make sure we don't dip below that 125% debt coverage ratio.

We told the bondholders we keep it.

So uh you'll remember conversations we've had with Reptellis in years past, they review our rate structure and make recommendations on user fees and/or connection fees in those enterprise funds.

And Chris, is wastewater the next one?

Yeah, we anticipate bringing counsel for review.

It's just staying flat on revenues, and the expenses go up.

So that would be one we'd bring you with a tell us report with a recommendation on a rate increase for the voters to consider maybe November-ish of 20 6.

Okay, and then the projected income from that you see D through H.

Correct.

Correct.

Without a rate increase, though.

Uh so that's just keeping it.

So with the rate, yeah.

So the most recent rate increase we had was uh in water.

And you can see a much rosier picture.

Water reclamation or would be the next one.

Yeah.

Yep.

It and sanitation are head and head.

And both have been over a decade.

Yes, yeah.

Um, just like on that about the sales tax growth.

I mean, I know we get to it on the next one too, but um from fiscal year 2019, or let's see ending in 2021 six million dollars in revenue, and then fiscal year ending 23, 7.5 million.

That's a 25% increase in revenue over those three years.

I mean, how practical is it to continue rising at that trajectory in perpetuity, right?

So when people talk about flat budgets, talking about a flat budget compared to a 25% increase in revenue over the last three years.

Definitely flattening out is the context.

I hear that word all over the place over the last many months.

Context, context.

Context-wise, our revenue has grown by 25% in the last four years.

Yep.

And it cannot, in my view, cannot continue at that trajectory indefinitely.

At some point, it levels off.

And hopefully it doesn't go back to what it was before.

And we it your guess is honestly as good as ours in terms of when COVID happened and this revenue growth took place.

We attribute a bunch of that to um people not having a choice but to stay home and they begin to shop from home.

And they did staycations instead of vacations because there wasn't any place to go.

And that did contribute mightily to that uh revenue growth.

And now people are able to shop a little more freely and go on vacation again.

Uh so the growth that we do see now was kind of that per capita income as our population is growing.

Um will we continue to be the second fastest growing city in Oklahoma?

Uh to a point, we recognize what our urban limitations are.

Um and it's just it's water quality protection zone and and the actual ability to provide infrastructure.

So I think through that 20 um through the AIM plant period, we have the infill capacity and council's desired density approach to stay there, and our population we anticipate will continue to grow at a similar pace.

After that, after that infill's done, we'll start to feel pressures like uh landlocked agencies that do exist out there in the metro, and their challenge will be tougher because it won't be done through population growth.

It'll it'll have to be you know a different retail mix or a different funding structure for local government that happens statewide.

So we have to make the best use of the property and land that we have.

Absolutely.

And of course, council members uh in in different capacities are engaged in uh conversations through the Oklahoma Municipal League, where they are uh leading a study and uh the discussion about how how should local government be funded with a maybe a little less dependency on the volatility of sales tax, whatever that means.

Uh, you know, and there's a a desire that our uh advilorum tax generation from Norman City limits, it grows at a much more steady pace, and some have estimated it's growing 8% a year, and our sales tax may be growing at one.

So, yeah.

All right.

So let's back to um column D, row 47.

Um, I made the same assumptions in the PSST fund that I did in the general fund, one percent uh sales tax growth, four percent use tax growth, uh frozen expenditures, and it requires still with all that said and done, it requires 336,000 uh subsidy from the general fund.

So that brings um us to a positive net difference um instead of a negative net difference, which we've had um the last few years if we as we've tried to spend down the you know post-COVID surplus that we've had in the general fund.

Um, and you might have heard some of the um the residents that spoke at uh Tuesday night's meeting referring to the seven million dollar deficit.

It's really a spending deficit of expenditures over revenues, and we've had that the last few years, and and it was intentional because we had that surplus, and we should spend it, but it's getting down to uh a tight level at this point.

So uh we're trying to focus on um building the fund balance up to maybe a safer level, and so this budget um puts 1.5 million back into fund balance, um, leaving us with the 3% reserve and then 3.3 in excess of that 6.51 um 501 to start fiscal year 28, and then we won't see um negative fund balance until uh fiscal year 30.

So we have plenty of time to correct um or update assumptions uh to that point.

So that's what I have for the general fund at this point.

So you made you've made adjustments to prevent deficit spending.

Correct.

Of course, we can't force correcting legally pass a budget that spends more, but to actually not indebt ourselves to more than we have.

And the like you're saying about projects getting paid off.

There's there's projects I think that are almost 10 years old that still haven't had the audited corporated from the state or o dot or whatnot.

It's still out there.

Um all sorts of nuances about municipal budget, the Evan flow.

And I feel like my entire time on council, the city was gonna be broken five years, and 10 years ago it was if we don't, we're gonna be broken five years by 2020 if we don't do a stormwater utility or in the University of North Park TIF early, the tax increment diversion.

And we weren't able to get the stormwater passed, but we were able to in the TIFF increment early and restore three and a half million dollars to the general fund.

So we found a way then.

Um but I it I feel like it's always been kind of projected with us that in a couple years we're gonna have a negative budget if we don't make these changes, and then we usually do make those changes through staff adjustments and council decisions and it just it requires management.

It's a it's a full-time job.

Um, and in that OML effort to assemble a package and really understand where municipal government funding comes in, and and there are more rural cities than there are big urban centers.

Um a lot of our smaller agencies, their sales tax rate is in excess of 10% because they have very few retail generators in their community.

And what we hear is uh about 30% of the revenue to their utility funds goes right to the general fund.

And we know that many many years ago, back in the 70s, Norman participated in similar practices.

And if if we needed capital that sales tax wasn't gonna cover, they would dip into the water fund or the wastewater fund and satisfy the capital need.

And the voters said not anymore, and now they amended the charter through a citizens initiative petition, and we vote on all of our utility rate increases, so we can demonstrate they are for the provision of that utility and that utility alone, but there's a whole bunch of cities in Oklahoma that if they didn't have a sewer fund or a water fund, they wouldn't have a police department or a park.

It's it's that close.

And that's the point of the five-year projections, right?

It it keeps us on track and it makes sure that we can head off any problems before they happen so we're not reactive, we're proactive.

And really, the municipal budget act only requires us to have you know, uh, on hand uh current budget year and prior years actuals and uh the one that we're budgeting for.

So this is just a best practice, and it really helps us stay on the right track.

And that's why they receive the government finance officers award for budgeting excellence.

So um so moving if there aren't any questions on the general fund, we can move on to the net civilized stabilization fund, otherwise called the Rainy Day Fund.

And really uh this just gives you the opportunity to decide if you would like to uh bring the fund balance of the rainy day fund right now.

We've exceeded in fiscal year 26, we've exceeded the minimum balance of 636.

Um what am I doing?

Hold on.

The ending fund balance is uh 5 million 32, and we've exceeded the minimum by by 636058.

I apologize.

So we're over by 430, 463.

So no, we're we're over by 636, yeah.

We have the target, of course, is five percent, and we are 463 below that 5% target, and then the maximum is 7%, and we're 2.6 million below that.

So this really just gives you the opportunity to decide if you want to deposit the 463021 from the general fund to bring this to the target, or if you want to let it uh leave it as is.

So staff's recommendation would be um since we exceed the minimum by a pretty comfortable margin, and that revenues have been stagnant, we would continue into next budget development under the same philosophy.

You have adopted uh financial policies that lay out the rules uh by which these dollars would be accessible.

So as long as that criteria doesn't meet this money just rolls along forward and it's available for the future potential emergency um a scenario where uh our sales tax revenue is interrupted for a period of time, or you know, some other fiscal crisis that may jump in and warrant uh council pulling the trigger to access these dollars.

And based on the five-year projection, you can see that we're every year we're projected to exceed that 4% minimum.

I think our policy also says if the circumstances presented themselves and we did have to dip into this reserve, there's a period by which we have to pay it back, pay it back.

Three years.

So we have good policy in place too.

Um before I forget their when you're talking about other cities and their sales tax rate, and there's been that discussion about more potentially raising theirs by a full percent over nine percent.

Yes.

Um, even the idea, and I think in that conversation, they talk about in exchange for an increase in sales tax, they would put a cap on millage for future advolorum questions, so that there's an anticipation future infrastructure needs would be met through that increased sales tax and less uh reliance on a geobond question for similar needs.

So it'll be interesting to see how that conversation uh evolves and see if uh if it makes it to a ballot in that form.

Yeah, it seems like all the cities are thinking about different ways to diversify the way they can manage their budget.

Okay.

So we can move on to uh the next page, which is the uh PSST fund, public safety sales tax fund.

And uh just to show you the the difference between estimated and audited figures, um revenue was uh about 800,000 low from our uh our estimated figures were fiscal year 25.

Um we did budget uh a transfer from the general fund of 2.6 million, but we only paid as you saw on the first page 212 because they didn't spend all of their capital outlay funds part of that capital outlay was related to the completion of the emergency operations communications center.

Right.

And then we're still debt servicing the debt on that through the PSS.

That's correct.

Yeah, there'll be one more debt service payment next fiscal year, two payments next fiscal year.

Right.

One one left this year, two next year, and yeah, and then we would be able to issue debt through PSST to do fire station number five, whatever the decision is on.

Absolutely.

But the other it there are multiple ways to um achieve that goal, recognizing with the current revenue picture and the current personnel assigned to public safety sales tax that if we have the ability to issue debt under uh uh public under fund 15, not general fund.

However, the debt service would exceed the revenue coming in, and there'd be a general fund subsidy anyway, or another way to look at that is the seven-tenths capital sales tax that's allocate 18 million bucks a year.

You would just say put that in the capital budget and over two budget cycles, pay cash for the yep, and prioritize it because it's a voter-approved absolutely that's how you take full advantage of that seconds.

Okay, that would be good to that's good to know.

So on uh row 23.

Um, you can see there also uh this is on the expense section.

They only spent 94395 on capital equipment when they had budgeted 2.3.

So I'm assuming they spent they have the rest encumbered.

You can find uh that down on uh line 43 reserved for encumbrances at the end of fiscal year 25.

Um, and they were left with the fund balance of 54145 at the end of fiscal year 25, and we did not anticipate that they would have one.

So that brings you over to um column C current year estimated um on lines 10 through 12.

Uh those are um increased subsidies from the general fund and the capital fund to pay for their increased expenses that you'll see lower down.

And then um the you can see on line 12 uh 541, 859 is what we uh look to receive from the school district uh in SRO reimbursements, but this is less than what was budgeted at 557.

We budgeted a 5% increase over um prior year, and it was really the contract only allowed for a 2% increase.

So that's the difference there, and then that's what you see projected going out is that 2% increase.

Council Mergrant.

I was gonna say on the SR reimbursement for MPS, don't they pay us less because they have to go pay the county, and then I assume they worked out their budget, and are we back to what they oh not quite back to that level, uh, but it will be about that time for us to regroup.

We will uh we meet with them annually on the subject uh end of January 1st of February while they're in budget development and we're in budget development.

What was it?

Was it 700,000 they were paying?

I think that was the five.

That was the most, it was up to about 712,000.

Um in an early but the the number started out I think closer to 450,000 when the original PSST question was asked, and that was the amount equal to what they were paying for their own internal police department, and the decision was made we won't have a police department anymore, and we'll pay you that and their budget grew and our budget grew.

As we added officers and equipment and the uh equipment, you know, grew in costs and so forth.

I would say if when negotiating with them again, uh like be mindful of the overtime, to not need a bunch of SROs at the fact that clustered together at different games, um that particular subject um both in hours of overtime work and dollars associated with those overtime hours.

Uh the last two years have been trending downward and not magically or accidentally, but because of active management, um they've made uh a real focus and emphasis on um staying healthy and doing that line of work and their actual sick leave hours have gone down.

And of course, if they're not calling in sick, we don't call somebody else in off-duty for time and a half, and it it really goes hand in hand.

So we'll be able to show you some interesting uh graphs showing what uh just a focus on management can do in overtime reduction and uh sick leave.

Are they going to pay more to end up using SROs after hours from where is because I think the contract tells like lays out like what the work day looks like, what we're providing a fixed amount, this is how much overtime we have available, and you can use it however you'd like.

Uh sports, graduation, prom, those kinds of things.

But when the overtime's done, that's when we're done.

Okay, so anything else they're paying.

Yep.

Okay.

Or we just don't go.

Good enough.

Um, I sit in a PSS team meeting when we was talking about this or contract.

I brought it up retreat as one of my big topics.

Um, had a conversation with the chief and the major about the contract as it is written now currently with Norman Public School system.

And we looked at the contract of Cleveland County that they just signed with the Norman Public School System.

This was about now probably three months ago or so, give or take.

And Cleveland County strictly says that they will not work any overtime whatsoever.

They will supply less than half the amount of officers.

They can be first year officers straight off training, and if they had to fill in, they won't work anything over fourth grade level.

That way they have the younger schools and the younger kids, and if they and they're making 300,000 more per year than what our current contract states.

Our contract, when you add in what overtime should cost compared to how much we get reimbursed, it was about a 2.2 million dollar difference in the amount of money on the contract compared to what we actually got reimbursed for that contract.

Uh the major and the chief boast stated that you know they're aware of the overtime and that most of it comes from that SOR because he said you have two home football games for the high schools at the same time in the city.

That's about 11 or 12 cops getting overtime that night just to be at a football game on two campuses, you know.

They said that the school system, if they don't want to pay for overtime, might have to look and have a private security events sometimes and maybe not need norman PD and less called you know type of events and things like that, also to be able to help curb some of that overtime costs.

So that's why I brought it up in the retreat that I definitely want somebody to take a hard look at the contract and then the renewal need you know, renegotiation of that contract to make it you know, we all love school, we all love the kids, we all love all that safety of the kids and all that stuff like that, but it has to be fair with what you're paying two different law enforcements where we're giving fully trained officers 20 plus years to go in there and do the job they do compared to what the other side's getting stuff fair's fair.

Yes, this was the first year with the two stadiums and the home games at the same night.

So it'd be interesting to see how if they're what that looked like on the budget.

And I I stopped the PSSD oversight committee, and um for 25 yes or O's incurred about 300,000, just over 300,000 in overtime for the after school uh events, and uh yeah, the the contract with the school district does allow them to reimburse up to 165.

So the rest was just out of our costume.

Okay.

And I I do know that like uh Major Chad, who um or Leander Vincent who was he was uh he was um over the SRO officers and he just they just switched that to Jamie Shattuck, but um he was doing everything in his power to minimize uh the number of officers that were providing overtime, but um he said there were just no more cuts that they could do without um reducing you know the quality of of the service.

That was the same major that I spoke with as well about concerns and everything also so they could hire private like we could say after your overtime is used up, you will hit something else up, but it won't be us because 2.2 million you said the budget that we was shown by the major and everything is that the whole entire if you took in count what the whole entire thing looked like for the fiscal year with overtime extra events, just whatever you know, training cost, all of it.

It was about 2.2 million total cost for the SOR program with a reimbursement.

I think it was 450, 550,000.

Something around that note number if I'm not mistaken.

For the for this notes in front of me on it, yeah.

And the the one lieutenant, it is just over two million dollars and that's that's no fully trained police response at all their major campuses.

We have fully funded it.

Uh we've filled all the positions that voters approved in it.

Um, and yeah, the only thing left for the PSST as far as I understand is the station five is fire station number five.

Um, and and based on council's prior direction, um real property acquisition, the inquiry has been made about the the preferred location.

Um they're looking at all the response uh circles, the radius maps to make sure what was the original preferred location for the relocated station five still meets all that call volume uh criteria, so we will be in a position to bring council uh real property acquisition um conversations, and um in that apparently uh one of our neighboring agencies just recently did a long-term land lease with um either a state or a federal agency adjacent to a park, kind of like what we're talking about around Lake Thunderbird, um for a you know, a 50-year land lease, which would be ideal in this situation.

Probably not gonna be able to buy any of the federal property state property, but to do a long-term land lease for that infrastructure is the avenue we're currently pursuing.

Okay, and just for reference, fire station five is the farthest east station out in Little X.

And it's it's tired.

It needs to be yeah, so okay.

And then once fire station five has been relocated and that's uh completed the public safety sales tax revenues and expenses are supposed to be absorbed by the general fund.

So fund 15 fund, yeah, 15 will just disappear from future financials after station five is relocated.

I mean, and I I think we will still track we still track it separately as far as account for it as we have a dedicated tax.

And even though it is bidded with the general fund, we would still know this is how much the public safety sales tax generates.

We could definitely have a separate.

I think it'd be good online items be able to see where it's money for something since it is a voter approved there, and it is a permanent recruitment tax.

So really so uh expenses again frozen from 26 levels to 27, and they still require um as you saw before, um, just over 400,000 uh total subsidy to be in the black, and you can see that that leaves total reserves at zero dollars.

So that's a positive budget, that's legal.

Anything below zero dollars is ill illegal.

But now in the out years, we do have the um the customary two percent sales tax increase.

We'll just have to see what happens.

Um moving on to fund 23.

I'm trying to be considerate of your time.

Um all I really wanted to show you on fund 23 is uh on the reserves at the bottom.

Parks has a negative reserve, so for fiscal year 27, it doesn't look like we're going to appropriate um funds for projects so that parks could build their reserve back up, make up that negative.

Of course, if we increase the room tax rate, then that'll be a different story.

But I just wanted to show you um the potential for parks projects out of the current eight percent rate for fiscal year 27.

Any questions on that?

And everybody can see where how much each entity is getting from that room tax currently.

Yes.

Okay.

And we'll move on to uh the public transportation parking fund 27.

Um, a couple things I want to discuss.

Um they did wind up um after fiscal year 25 was audited.

They had total reserves of just over a million dollars, and we did not anticipate that they would come out in the positive, so that's awesome.

That shows up in the beginning of fiscal year 26 in column C.

Um, I have four sales tax a flat or not a flat, a small one percent increase budgeted and then use tax to four percent.

Um and that brings um for fiscal year 27 that brings them to a level where they don't require a subsidy.

But I also want to mention in 26 the micro uh micro transit program was added via amendment to the budget, 665,000.

I do not have that in fiscal year 27 or out years.

I feel like maybe that's a council decision if you want to add that, it would be paid for 100% by the general funds, so that's why it didn't include that.

But um, that's a decision that you have.

Um, but even without that 665,000 for microtransit, uh they do start requiring a subsidy in fiscal year 28 just because sales tax is not growing fast enough to keep up with uh the expenses.

And they currently operate uh from two primary revenue sources, a one eighth percent sales tax allocation, and which which accounts for our fair box ratio, our local match, and then federal transportation dollars for public transportation.

So um, yes, um on demand, I'd say at least currently planning for it to be included in there somewhere until council makes a decision on whether to do it or not.

Right, it's it's in fiscal year 26, and then we just have to decide in the budget prep process what to do for 27.

If the sales tax revenue picture improves, it improves for both the transit fund and for the general fund.

So that makes it so much easier to put outside of at least this year projected outside of on demand transit does not uh do general funds correct has been our goal, and we have great yes, transit administrators.

They do have they do require subsidy in the current year, it's 39,000.

Uh but next year if we um freeze expenses and take out microtransit, they don't require subsidy, and they actually make 16,000.

Um is it is it possible to so the the only place well I guess they don't have to the revenue collected from street parking around the courthouse?

It's been a request from a commissioner about switching to timed parking, like the rest of the street parking downtown around the courthouse at least until we do the overall town street parking, parking garage, but that's been asked.

And so we've talked about how parking revenue doesn't pay for even pay for enforcement enforcing parking.

So I wasn't sure if we even account for separately or can what's collected from just the the pay stations around the county courthouse.

Do we through FlowBird?

Um we do we know which machine collected how much?

Yeah, we can look at that and calculate that.

We can talk about that in CPT or that would be finance too.

So that would be a great conversation for C because I wasn't even sure what our capabilities were of reporting from that uh flow bird system, so that's awesome.

And I'll look to uh Mrs.

Walker in terms of council's decision to change like the the formula for paying to park around the courthouse.

Is that corrected or adjusted by resolution?

What yeah, with the with the update to the management plan.

Yeah, so we just increased the rate from 25 cents an hour to 50 cents an hour on January 2nd at the start of the year to help with the expenses and create some more revenue.

We just replaced those pay stations around the courthouse uh in 2023.

Before that, it was uh 50 single space meters that were all having operated.

So we're hoping that the that slight increase will help, uh, but we still don't think that the the rates in general are where they need to be at 50 cents.

It's probably still too low.

But there is demand around there if you go look.

Yeah, so they had requested to if we could switch it to the hour or two.

But then to answer your question, I think the city manager can by ordinance can update and change with we'll get council consent.

Oh, absolutely.

But just to answer the question, yeah.

Councilmember Gray.

I know they asked, but I'm not so inclined because there's other street parking that you park further away and walk in.

Like if you go across the tracks, there's parking over by the well.

Um you can park in a neighborhood street and walk in.

You can park in the two-hour, one-hour areas.

So yeah, I'm I hear the request, but uh not so inclined to granted.

It is the only place downtown where we charge for street parking.

So we may end up charging all of it in the future.

But okay, um, if we can get some information about what is the revenue collected around, we'll bring you that CPTC.

At least we have some uh we can talk about it further.

Okay.

So moving to the risk management fund.

Um, this is probably uh the blue report of all the funds here, but just as we discussed before, the increase in health insurance claims.

Um, and for calendar year 26, um, it was decided not to raise employee premiums, health insurance premiums.

I'm not sure if we're going to raise employer premiums to try to mitigate this issue of rising health insurance claim costs.

Um, but on in column C.

Well, actually, I'll start with uh column A, which is uh FYA 25 actual on line 41.

You can see that we estimated to end uh fiscal year 25 with 1.7 million in reserves, but we actually ended it with 577,000 due to growing uh claim costs.

So we started 26 with only 577,000 in column C.

And the increased claim costs so far in 26 have brought us to uh deficit of 804 already, and that's the 41 extra.

The subsidy in the general plan.

And initially, um, the the thought of you know the volatility and risk management when you're self-insured the the premature baby um not looking at a report or you know, and it uh in violation to HIPAA, but employees that you know and work with every day, um, and we recognize we had a couple pretty lengthy stents in ICU.

Um, and what we'll need to verify is that um we do have stop loss, and by the time we get to the end of the fiscal year, any time any of those bills show up, and we know the healthcare billing timeline could be 60, 90, 120 days from the day you're out before all the bills show up.

Uh, when we hit the stop loss, we go out through the billing process to bill our uh stop loss carrier, and we'll be able to put some of those dollars back into the system.

But that's why we had these conversations because that thoughts record to be got to make sure we bill for those uh stop loss penetrations.

And uh that's actually well that's claiming our risk manager, and uh those premiums have gone up as well.

Yeah, council are gonna I'd like to know when stop loss kicks in at what number of claims and they're paying.

Was it 250?

I think it's 250,000 we pay van.

Uh yeah, I think so.

No, like per one, like you said, one person might have half a million dollars, you know.

Right, and if like that's a 250 per person, and then it kicks in and it pays.

Does it max out its coverage?

Um if it is, it's five million, it's real big.

We pay the first 250 and that coverage pays that's that's okay.

No at that was that projected reserve general fund won't be able to do 2.4 and then 4.6 and 7.3 all the way to 14.7 million dollar deficit on health insurance.

No, it's a risk management at some point it would have to be absorbed somehow by either the employer or employee.

Combination of the two what we intend to split the cost between two, you know, that's seven percentage.

We need some kind of substantial resolution either in the current well in the current fiscal year before 27 because you can see uh everything status quo, they're gonna have negative results.

From that we get out of hand in 27 for sure.

Congress we need limited something.

Yeah, we won't hold our breath.

They made it work.

Uh, we also do pay uh judgments and claims um when the city attorney takes you into executive session and there's legal challenges against the city, it's also handled in risk management.

Those we receive uh property tax funding funds.

If there's a big that's how those are paid off, right?

So uh wrapping up, we have uh the capital fund, and I just want to show you here again um on column A.

Um, because we didn't complete every single project that we had budgeted for in fiscal year 25.

Instead of uh closing the year with uh 30 million in fund balance, we closed it with 70 million, and that's that's typical because we can only realistically complete portions of capital projects, even though we budget for the entire project.

So we start fiscal year 26 with 70 million.

Um then uh for the bond proceeds on line 17.

Is it you found 40 million dollars in Anthony's safe?

It's a really big safety.

Yeah, bridge bond proceeds.

Um got voter approval for a $50 million bridge bond program.

That's where the revenue would come into the system, and then it would be assigned a capital project number uh and build out over the completion uh of the project.

This fund in terms of the revenue mix includes uh bond proceeds and then um geo, so that's geobond type activity, plus your um seven tenths percent sales tax revenue uh goes into here too.

So it we recognize it as being um healthy in that um not only did the voters approve the bridge bond, but I mean, and just like I said in the last month we've received 44 million dollars uh in in funding notifications for transportation projects.

So um our engineering crew, they're gonna be really really busy uh just dealing with the other people's money portion, uh, but we'll make sure we are timely and effective and efficient uh with the bond proceeds from the bridge bonds.

Those those bridges um they won't get healthier uh uh unless we're really focused in on them.

So and the difference between columns B and C on line 17, the the bond proceeds.

Um the 26,000 is what you see in uh the other column C or 25 estimated, and that's for the uh 2019 vote.

Okay.

Um, and then moving down to um capital outlay transfer that on line 24 and fiscal year 26.

That of course is uh 27% of the capital, I mean the the sales tax revenue, and that's what the general fund receives for all capital outlay.

Um let me see.

Then I have all the uh bond projects highlighted here in the expenses, and that brings us to um I think we should uh please receive that brings us to um transition subtotal of expenses at 88 million for 26 and uh ending fund balance of 55.7 million.

Keep going okay, please move.

Um everything looks good in the capital fund on that side.

Uh they are paying subsidies to um, as you can see here, and I don't have these highlighted, but the PSST fund 1.7 million for their capital outlay in this year, which increased from the budget because they're paying some old POs.

They receive some merchandise in the current year that they ordered in the prior year.

Um moving to column D, fiscal year 27.

I just want to show you on line 24, those figures are also 27% of the uh sales tax projection, and that's what we use when uh management team has their budget retreat and they kind of uh fight over that 4.7 million for all the vehicle replacements for all the computer replacements, anything capital in nature, they have 4.7 million to spend um in all the general funds.

And Tim Powers and IT usually wins the battle because we were all scared of being attacked with some kind of ransomware.

So he gets usually funded first and then we battle over the red.

Councilman.

How quick does 4.7 million go?

Um we can spend it in a in it's easy to spend that in a fiscal year.

Um when we look at a project like uh Jenkins widening and it winds up being 13 million dollars.

Uh yeah, we can we can be build and pay four or five million dollars in a fiscal year easily on on a single project like that.

A bridge may be three or four million dollars, one bridge.

Well, you're talking about the capital outlay figure, correct?

The one that you're all our client number.

Yeah, we typically use about half of that for vehicle replacements for all general fund departments, and then um another three or hundred three hundred thousand or so for computer replacements, and the rest is really what they fight over, and it it can be snapped up.

We've got um capital outlay requests anywhere from 50,000 to 150,000.

So yeah, we typically fund um not even 10% of the requests we receive.

Um we do look at, you know, I mean, just the price of a fire truck has doubled in five years.

Um the price of a cop car, you 22,000 to 89,000 in about five years.

So uh those dollars don't go near as far as they as they used to.

But you know, we we are relatively successful and aggressive in seeking grant dollars to help fund fleet replacement on the transit side on the PD side.

Uh lately we've been getting grants that basically cover the difference between the gas equivalent to a fully electric vehicle.

Uh so we'll you know, we we can drive a $90,000 EV that really really is an amazing machine for the price of its gas counterpart, about half the price usually.

And so then going down to line 65.

Um the uh can be infamous available for new projects, huge negative number.

Um that's for new projects, and that's because we have of the 55 million in fund balance, all of those other numbers in rows um 57 through uh 63, those are all reserves for bond projects.

So we can't touch those numbers, we can't touch those portions of the fund balance.

So that brings us down to a negative uh number for new projects.

So while we have a healthy fund balance, all those funds are tied into existing projects and then bond proceeds for bond projects.

There is a method to that madness.

One, it prevents us from spending the same dollar three times because twice is okay, but never three times.

That would be crazy.

Um what it does give us is a list of shovel ready, and when we see a notice of funding availability for um capital projects, we're able to scour the list and say, okay, what do we have on the books that may meet that?

And we'll go after those bond proceeds, which frees up either voter approved dollars or local sales tax capital dollars to be moved further on down the line.

So there's a bunch of uh active management that goes into this fund and its utilities and its public works and its transit, and we've got lots of people with uh vested interest in the management of that capital fund.

And you see that big highlighted block in the middle of uh column C fiscal year 26.

Those are those large amounts that are highlighted, those all assume that those bond projects are going to be completed in the current fiscal year, but they're not.

So um that's why you don't see any bond figures in the out years from 27 plus, but we still have negative uh amounts available for you projects in the out years, and that's because we have current projects that are going to receive funding in the out years, and then we have recurring projects that are refunded in the out years.

So all of that can change at any time, but this is what we have in our projections right now.

And then the final sheet, if there aren't any of the questions on capital fund, is the Norman Forward Fund.

And most of our projects in Norman Ford are complete.

Um, but I wanted to show you on here that um we do have a healthy fund balance.

If you go down to line 42 in column C, we're um estimating to end this year with 7.7 million.

So we may want to add some new eligible projects to uh Norman Ford to use up this fund balance.

So we have the River Park still out there, and there's ongoing discussion about how to accomplish that project.

Um other than that, we will have completed or again construction on every project that was approved, right?

Correct.

Yeah, I think the neighborhood park project list.

There's a couple after those.

Yeah, it relatively vague, and they're not multi-million dollar projects.

And that receives uh recurring funding, I believe, and those uh that funding is worked into this projection.

Saxon Park is still out there to be started too.

I mean, I yeah, yeah.

I guess um I guess a thought on that would be just already approved Norman Ford projects that had to have things cut out of them, or the you know, the the gymnasium expansion at the senior center, uh the uh turf fields at Griffin, um, the additional softball baseball fields redo at Reeves.

Uh and the last year collect is 2031.

2030.

Yeah, so yeah, that budget projection takes us to the last year of any any time that council wants us to, we can we can come up with a a list of projects where we thought that could use a little bit more help or uh further funding on some things that get eventually got kicked out.

So we went, man.

I could I can get that done.

That's not enough to build the 50 meter pool at the WiFac yet, but uh it will be a done.

It could be enough to do that to amazing, and maybe those fields if they want, maybe a chunk at Andrew's Park at a next year, you know, the next Norman forward question.

So but those ongoing, oh I'm sorry.

What does that include those bathrooms you were talking about?

Yeah, Andrew's or new one would be just to be uh at Reeves.

No, that that's actually uh in capital funding, so those are separate, but though we'll tell you we're probably not healthy enough to actually we'll probably need more funding on those to actually build them because everything we bid uh uh because now we're at we budgeted at $350,000.

We're guessing those would probably be north of that.

Everything is you know, it seems like we always come up short.

Even with the ongoing expenses on line 23, 730, 680,000 for ongoing pay-go projects, mostly I think that's for neighborhood neighborhood parks, and then transfers to the libraries and so forth.

Um, this surplus, this fund balance surplus is um gonna grow by about four million a year.

So by uh 2031, you will have about 22 million in there if we don't find projects for it.

So and that's all I have on the mid-year budget review.

Another question and comments about that.

Yeah, that's right.

I can have it to you by the next uh yeah.

Okay, all right.

The that's it.

The next item is a discussion regarding monthly revenue and expenditure reports.

And after the mid-year budget review, I would just uh be happy to answer any questions you have on any of the revenue or expenditure reports.

Because it's basically the month of December, correct, yeah, which is October sales tax, October retail sales, yes.

And you know, it continues when you look at the city to city comparison, it's hard to it's hard to come up with a pattern because it's uh you know, Norman and Edmund are down, okay.

CMW are up.

Um the state of Oklahoma is down over five percent.

Yes.

And if we're tracking ahead of the state as a whole, you know, it it shows we're doing all we can with what we've got.

Um, I wouldn't ever want to fall below that state cover.

And it's super interesting to me how Norman always really, I mean, there's a clear pattern here, and everybody pretty much falls within that pattern.

Like on uh in November, everybody was up a little bit, and then in January, everybody's down a little bit, except for admin, they're kind of usually the outlier, but Edmund has had a negative month every single month this fiscal year.

Yeah.

Uh we look at Oklahoma City, and every once in a while you'll see like a 12% plus, and you recognize oh, that's actual revenue getting deposited from the uh NBA championship period.

Uh a lot of merchandise sold and a lot of visitors and and a lot of activity.

So hopefully that helped everybody in the Metro do a little bit better than we might have done without it.

And then again, it's also comparing to last year's budget.

I don't know what Edmonds or Moore's sales tax revenue was last year.

That's working here as well.

And then when you looked in it on the I always liked the last chart, the unrestricted sales tax once shows the last six years.

Uh one, two, three, four, six, eight years.

And um, so like on the bar chart, it shows that this January, December, um that we were down one point nine two percent.

But it's compared to that same month last year, which was the largest sales tax month in the history of Norman.

Right, yeah.

At least going back six years.

Yep.

Um, and I don't think sales tax have ever been this high in the history of Norman.

So last December a year ago was our best month that we've ever had.

And we compared this December to the best month we've ever had, and it was down 1.92%.

So someone looks at that and then posts on Facebook, the city sales tax is down 1.92% compared to the best month that we have ever had in the history of over a hundred years of Norman existing.

And so again, context word.

Yeah.

Um, and so I just really encourage everybody to look at that graph, the Norman unrestricted sales tax and look at how each month compares over the last five fiscal years compared to the three prior to that.

That was that 25% increase and how it's maintained at that level, interestingly enough, and not dropped back down dramatically.

Absolutely.

And and we are at a point now in history where the lion's share of any federal ARPA program dollars, they're gone.

They are no longer in the local economy.

So we know there were millions and millions of dollars infused in Norman and in Cleveland County through A ARPA.

Uh yet that plateau stayed pretty constant, and after all those dollars are spent, we're still at that level.

And December looks like it is tied for the second best month that we've ever had too as well, compared to October FY23.

So Kim, does that include use tax or just sales tax?

Just sales tax.

Okay.

So the other interesting thing, and and I'll ask Kim if she'll prepare such a graph for us for the next finance meeting.

When we look at sales tax and use tax, they're functionally the same kind of tax.

One of them is just your house is the point of sale versus the brick and mortar.

And uh when we looked at sales tax for the most recent period, we it's down, uh, but we look at use tax and it's up.

And net, when you add use tax and sales tax together, uh, we're up about $50,000.

So that's not bad.

We are definitely shopping differently than we have in years past.

Um boy, if we could come up with the magic formula and we understood exactly what was going to happen going forward, we would write a book and we'd all be rich.

Well, even though revenues increased 25%, many things may have increased in cost more than 25%.

Yeah, Mr.

Olson highlighted in that same period.

Any other uh comments or questions?

Council.

I'm just gonna make a comment on kind of pages eight through eleven.

Uh looks like all of our departments outside of IT are under their kind of budget.

So I'm sure it looks like IT had some extra service and some stuff, but everybody was 58% through the year, everybody was at 57 or whatever on their budget.

So that's great.

Great job, everybody.

They are sticking with uh council's leadership.

Council is has uh done a great job holding the line.

Um staff continues to hold the line.

We want to bring you that budget that looks a whole lot like what is projected for that 26-27 fiscal year in this report.

That's that's what we're targeting to bring you to make your adoption uh hopefully stress free or at least stress reduced.

And IT has a lot of really large uh annual software maintenance payments that they paid throughout the year, so that is usually skewed.

Okay, any other comments or questions about monthly reports?

These guys do a great job.

Thank you very much, guys.

All right, all right.

Then if that's it, this meeting is adjourned.

Hey Catherine, can I