Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I think the I remember the only point time I've been there is when we did the public sales tax.

We actually everybody, it is four o'clock, and we are live, so we'll go ahead and get started with the community planning and transportation committee meeting for Tuesday Thursday, February 26th, 2026.

And we have four items on the agenda.

And um staff did just let me know there was a problem with the system and getting the agenda pub the attachments published, but they are now on there for anybody uh needs that.

Um the first item on the agenda is presentation of January public transit report.

We have Taylor here with City Staff to lead the discussion.

Thank you, Mayor and Council members.

Uh this item on the screen is the second agenda item, so we'll get to that.

But the first as always is the the memo that you guys have in your packet.

Um going over some updates for the transit program and our services.

Um there's the general stuff in there, just the ongoing uh data about our vehicle maintenance and vehicle procurement, um, which we're uh happy to say that we're only have one bus that's should be replaced that's not on order, and we'll see if we can get to that um next fiscal year.

Um I will say there was an update on our three big buses that are on order.

Um due to and this will get into the budget discussion a little bit, but due to tariffs, the the manufacturer Gillig got an amendment through the state of Washington contract to potentially pass along some cost to us, even though we have our buses on order.

So we might see that a year from now when those buses are being built.

So just uh putting that out on on radar and that could be a potential budget impact um for next fiscal year when they go to the assembly line.

Where are they made?

In um California, and it starts with an L, but I don't remember the town now, just east of San Francisco.

But parts that's probably terrifying parts.

Yeah, on parts and goods itself.

They're assembled in the United States.

I should say that it's uh up to, but depending on what it is at the time, that's and it would be a request, so those are things we'll have to work with.

And I just we just talked about that today, and so it's a it's a really recent update.

So still figuring that out, but of course want to keep that top of mind.

Um honestly move to the ridership because I know we have a lot of other things on the agenda.

Uh for January for the for MBAR Norman, we had uh just shy of 35,000 rides, and last January we were almost at 40,000.

Um for the service as a whole, uh comparing the service service dates from January to January.

We had one less weekday in this January, plus there was four uh weather days compared to one last January.

So I think that has to do with why we dipped this past month.

Um obviously the snow doesn't help when people have to inherently walk to and from bus stops and things.

So uh but we did go down.

Um interestingly, plus ridership actually increased by about a thousand.

So um we'll keep monitoring that and watching for that.

Uh and then uh also interestingly the bikes and other mobility devices increased from 606 608 last January to 926.

So even with the snow and those weather days, we still saw more bikes and other mobility devices on our buses, which is a good thing.

Yeah, so pretty significant increase in the airport traffic too, 21% on the uh fixed route money for Friday.

Yep.

Yep, so there was a little bit of increase on that route, and then uh because there's such heavily ridden ridership on the East Lindsay route.

And that that can have to do with if the university closes, obviously that route has a lot of apartment complexes on it and serves a big student population.

But yeah, there were some increases, but uh overall we did see that decrease.

So 29.7% total for Saturday fixed route, and every route shows an increase.

Uh West timer being 92%.

Yeah, and I think that has to do with so we had one less weekday of service, but one more Saturday of service.

So we kind of traded those, and but overall we saw a decrease probably uh with that.

Okay on the ridership as a whole.

And then for Norman on demand, um, really quickly, the last uh performance report in this in this packet.

We had uh 1813 riders in January compared to 3272 last January.

Um again, just feeling out the the rate increase that was implemented in September.

Um and just really letting that service settle in because it is that on-demand service though, the operator uh via is able to scale back on hours of service.

So we are hopefully gonna see a little bit of savings by the end of the fiscal year for this contract.

But if they do notice an increase in ridership, they can ramp it back up.

They just kind of hold hold that pulse really tightly so that way they can modify it as they go week to week.

So I feel like I'm not seeing them on campus core any more R.

Well anyway.

Any questions about transit ridership reports?

So the second item is uh fiscal year 2027 fund 27 trunk transit budget discussion.

Um I thought I'd do like a quick spin around in my chair for this and the next item.

But um we're just gonna run through kind of some history, uh, where we're showing the projections uh for next year, and then talk about some of the things we've been talking about for the last six or seven or eight months that you all kind of wanted us to flush out as an expense possibly, but get some direction on next year's budget.

Uh I know we've been talking a lot about general fund, but ours is impacted by sales tax as well.

So there's some things to consider.

Um so some of the history with the transition of the of the transit service from OU that happened in July 2019.

There's a bit of uh timeline before that, but that's the effective date.

And we began that first year of contract with with embark operations.

Uh I mentioned the public transit sales tax that passed in November of 2019.

So we were really busy that first year or two doing things like this while also standing up a transit program.

Um but that uh we're happy to say passed with I think about 72% approval rating, uh, really robust uh campaign, and it was actually a um just a reminder a quarter of a cent was coming offline from the building of the county jail that the county had, and they were only going to request an eighth or a half of that from the voters.

So I think every city in the county um looked for a proposition to ask the voters to um fund something else, and this is what council decided on at the time.

And uh if I recall, this transition had not really been done before, and uh took a couple years or year and a half or so.

Act of Congress, governor signature is what it took for us to even get to the point where we could ask voters to approve a sales tax uh because of federal funding allocation.

It was quite the process.

It was a big to-do.

And my memory is it was I think I wasn't here at the time, but the city received a letter August 2018, so it was less than a year, I think, to really mobilize and get it going.

It was a fast track, so still haunts some of our dreams or nightmares, you know.

Um getting Congress on something.

This is really, and there's another slide after this, but uh we did a lot of work after that just to stand it up and and get things going.

But that initial goal stabilize the service.

I just wanted to add never missed a day of service.

The day we ended OU and the day the city took it over, it did not stop running.

They'd given us a little bit of a time frame, a little heads up, so we're able to maneuver in advance and we're able to do it.

I was on the edges of it, I wasn't directly in the middle of it, but it was uh a large undertaking and very impressive that it was able to be done in the time frame it was.

And thankfully OU was willing to work with us even after that transition.

We leased space from them at their garage for a while.

Um, they actually ran the paratransit service for three additional months after that date, even though we were technically paying them to operate it.

So there was they they were good partners in that transition.

It's transfer station on campus, kept using that until we found them sound spot.

Um so yeah, we stabilized the service, and as we were going along, we we I mentioned the vehicle replacement in the last item, but we're close to doing that.

There was a lot of work that uh first two or three years to get grants and get those vehicles purchased and then the fleet.

Um almost every vehicle we inherited needed to be replaced or was going to obviously be replaced, needed to be replaced in the next few years.

Um very quickly, um, we realized that we needed to update our long-range transit plan, local local plan, and we went through that process uh for about a year and got it adopted in June of 2021, the Go Norman Transit Plan.

We uh built uh and moved into a new operations maintenance facility, what we call the transit public safety maintenance facility up there on North Base in January of 2022, uh scraping together funding, and uh we had some CARES Act dollars for transit that we were able to allocate about 5.1 million that really saved that uh combined project with Norman Forward for the parks maintenance facility, just a really unique project.

So uh got that done.

We one of the main ticket items we needed to really get the transit operations going, and then as was mentioned, we moved to the Norman Transit Center in October 2023 after continuing to use the Brook Street location.

And then as was mentioned, we moved to the Norman Transit Center in October 2023 after continuing to use the Brook Street location.

Maintenance facility is it also works on all of our big trucks.

It works on fire trucks.

Yeah.

So it's it, yeah.

So it's it's the emergency PSST, also put some funding in, so it's the fire trucks, and then all of the transit fleet, and then the other large vehicles, the other trash trucks and other large equipment is actually on the north side of DaVinci at the old fleet facility.

But it did um it did help because the fire trucks were being taken care of at that north facility, so they we got more space, maybe we want to move around and gain some gain some square footage, especially for trains, obviously, because we had no facility and we're we had nowhere to put them.

Um continued history.

Uh as we were going through this process, we tried to make incremental gains in the service.

Uh Councilmember Holman or Mary Holman, I'm sorry, may remember that Saturday service was discontinued about a year before we took it over, I believe.

And then a year after we took it over, we reinstituted it, which uh was a great addition.

Um we didn't have any uh weekend service at that point.

We initialized uh fundamental route changes with the new transit center, going from those large loop routes to more bi-directional routes, uh, which we think led to some of the gain in ridership and more user-friendly service with some hiccup or some some cut cuts that we had to make in areas, which was hard, but we we worked through those, and I think we came up with a better service, but some areas did have to be cut, and then added frequency on Route 112, which was added uh in October of 2024.

So and then the uh one of the more bigger uh items that we added was the microtransit service known as Norman on Demand in August 2023.

Um after about a year or so of discussion with council on microtransit service in general, we came up with this late night service and Sunday service uh for microtransit, which is really mini bands uh on a more uh transportation network company type of model of book it on the app, they'll come to the curb and pick you up and take you where you need to go.

And we partner with the OU Student Affairs Office uh for that.

Uh Jordan is here actually representing appreciate him being here.

And it Sunday service is actually the first priority in the Go Norman Transit plan.

So we were able to check that box as long as that service is operating.

That was uh idea of two council members that could not have been more different and really didn't like each other very much.

But they uh came together to push for that.

That's how we end up with so these are some uh these aren't formal, these are more of what Taylor's come to understand over the last six, seven years of our transit budget goals.

So self-sustaining, no general fund subsidy if we can.

Um that has been hit or miss.

Uh things happen, we have to figure them out, and we've been appreciative of council support, but that's that's the goal.

Increase service incrementally, like I talked about, um, and then try to seek grant funding, which we've been really good at the capital funding, and that's really competitive, and that's what's generally available.

There isn't a lot of operating competitive dollars out there, and even if there is, it's two maybe three years of operating dollars, and then you have to foot the bill.

So capital, unfortunately, is much easier to come along, uh come by for grant funding, which would be the purchase of new fleet purchase of buses, the cutaways, right?

Those items are what been very successful in doing with the plate replacement.

Yep.

If we have facility needs, we can potentially go after those as well through the capital funding.

Getting into next year's uh fund 27, which is the transit and parking fund projections.

I'm not gonna go through every revenue and expense, but you can see on the left, our line share of our revenues is the uh FTA section 5307 grant apportionment, 2.8 million, almost 2.9 million now.

And then the sales and use tax through that one eighth of a cent dedicated.

Uh there's some other miscellaneous ODOT, Norman Regional, and Bus Stop Advertising.

We get to about 6.9 million in uh revenues.

The expenses are what we're looking at next year for fleet repair transit.

Um, it's about 700,000.

Staff, um, fleet staff have done a great job of really putting pen to paper and trying to identify some savings.

Uh, and we've actually been able to identify uh quite quite a bit.

You can see there about 103,000 to some operating expenses.

So we are cutting some of our sublet things like that, uh, where we take repairs outside.

Um, and then also, and some of those gains are because the fleet is so new.

Now, as the fleet gets older, that might change the dynamic.

But and then there's a transit service technician that uh because the fleet got newer, we don't necessarily need as much staff time to take care of the buses that we're proposing that we could eliminate to save some dollars rather than budget that position that hasn't been filled.

So that adds up to about 170,000 in savings that we're gonna propose.

Uh transit and parking administration, that's about 753,000 for city staff time, but um also includes some other miscellaneous items like our um we do in service accounts, so that our fleet uh fuel and stuff like that is built into that.

It's kind of build um to the parent department or parent cost center.

But getting into the weeds, uh embark contract is projected to be about 4.9 million or just shy of that for next year, and that does include an increase of about 210,000 for fiscal year 27.

Staff increases uh similar to what we experience around here with step step and merit and things like that, insurance.

So, with that, uh, when we compare what we think the revenues and expenses are going to be for next year, we get to about 589,000 that um we haven't budgeted.

And uh I just want to put the caveat with the asterisk that if we did utilize it, which we'll talk about on the next slide, we wouldn't have any fund balance for fund 27, which I think is uh worth noting.

And that that current surplus is about 9.3 of budget expenses.

And I made sure to check with uh Kim and Clint, and we try to do a target of about 8% for our funds uh that aren't the general fund, so just something to keep in mind.

I don't know that we've ever really talked about fund balance for fund 27 since I've been here, so I think it's probably worth talking about.

Things come up, things happen, and then unfortunately we have to go to council and ask to potentially borrow or use general fund money, and we like I said in the budget goals is try to avoid that.

As an example, this year we had the transit bus the the that was struck by another vehicle uninsured, and because we'd use FTA funds, the choices were either pay the FTA back for that, but we buy a new one.

Well, this is where that money would have come from.

Instead, we had to come to council and ask for an appropriation to do that.

Yeah, there should be some kind of protection for that.

And we are uh my understanding from legal seeking rest restitution.

Um but uh who knows what happens with that.

They didn't have insurance $50 a month for $140.

Yeah, correct.

But um, those are just the things that happen.

We mentioned the tariff charges for the three big buses.

That's something we're gonna have to deal with next year potentially that we're not budgeted for, unfortunately.

So here's a a pretty big slide to digest, so we'll go through it, uh try to go through it quickly, but one by one of the things that aren't budgeted that we've talked about uh this fiscal year, potentially for next fiscal year.

So obviously, Norman on demand continuation.

We've heard from our contractor that uh for a full 12 months of service, it'd be about $650,000, and that is with the assumption that um the demand will stay at or maybe a little above of what we're currently at.

So they are trying to keep it as low as possible.

Um, this fiscal year, the university contributed um just over 131,000, as you can see there, and we while we would have to contract the 650,000 at the onset of the year as we go through and um the university helps pay for it, we would see uh a cost of about 518,000 at the end of the day.

So uh, and I want I should have put this number on this next slide, but just thinking keep that $590,000 uh budget surplus just in the back of your mind as we go through these items.

Other extra yes, correct.

Because the microtransit um Norman on demand isn't in the budget, so that's why it's kind of off on the side with these other items.

Uh we've talked about Route 110.

That's kind of the next goal in the Go Norman Transit Plan of adding that frequency.

Uh got a cost estimate from Embark plus from fleet staff on maintenance and fuel, and that's where we got the about 335,000 to add that frequency, and that would take that out from an route from an hour-long frequency to a 30-minute frequency, similar to what we did for uh Lindsay West or Route 112, which is is a is a great um addition for the riders if you can ever increase frequency.

This third bullet is uh is a new one.

So uh much like us, uh Oklahoma City and Embark OKC is filling budget crunches, so they're looking at ways to save costs, and it was um been tossed around the last couple weeks, few weeks of possibly uh decreasing or discontinuing the Route 24 between Oklahoma City and Norman.

So we wouldn't have a route between the two cities anymore.

However, I'm being told that uh they think they figured out a way to fund it for another year.

Um if we're able to assist them with funding in the upcoming year, they would love that.

Uh we used to split the cost when I was at OU.

It would used to be run actually half by OU and half by Mbark.

And uh when we started um about a year in, I think the the Embark OKC grunge took it over completely, and um since then we we've been um not helping fund that.

But all that to be said, uh that might be another budget consideration for FY28 that we need to keep in mind if if uh sales tax dollars continue to drop and um we continue working with NBARC on what that route looks like, right?

So is uh how how is OKC MARK funded?

By the city of OKC entirely, and maybe fairs, but I doubt that.

So uh I have some representatives from MBARC here, uh KB, who's the chief of bus operations or assistant director now of operation, I'm sorry.

Um he could probably help us answer that, but they get grants from FTA just like we do, and um they get fair revenue, but I think they do get a general fund subsidy from the city that helped fund it, yeah.

And the city is of OKC is gonna be pulling back a little bit or yeah, we submitting the the crunch from the sales revenue reduction.

So yeah, you know the city.

Okay.

So it's a city seeing a sales tax reduction too.

The city is seeing is having difficulty with sales tax revenue.

Okay, so it's fascinating.

Um thank you for that.

Um I was just gonna make the comment that hopefully the runway on that issue is only two or three years because hopefully we have an RTA coming online in that time frame, which when that does, I think we can phase that route out all together.

And I should note that it was already uh cut in service last summer um due to budget constraints on the embark OKC side.

So uh it went from about 75 people a day that ride it to about 50 people per day because of those cuts, and then um to the point about RTA.

If they get going, I think the current timeline is probably uh being generous seven or ten years.

But point is well taken.

I think that route is a bridge until something more robust comes along.

So that's also the social security route.

That is not social security routes is separate.

Um so that that's been something we've talked about and bounced around for a long time as if we could incorporate it on there or not.

Yeah, if that one could stop there, that would and we might explore that more into the future.

We've we've talked about that more.

Um we don't want to bog down an express route too much, get people to and from OKC to Norman as fast as possible.

But also if we could do that as one stop on it.

We could also consider it only doing a couple times a week, similar to what we do with the social security route.

But we've we've talked about that.

Uh last fall we we tossed around maybe increasing security services at the transit center.

Um right now they're provided eight hours a day Monday through Saturday.

You can see there, this proposal of an additional 28,000 through Embark using their uh security contractor would expand it to the entire entire service span, so 15 hours a day, Monday through Friday, and then eight hours on on Saturday.

So the entire time we operate.

And that would allow the bathroom to stay open.

Potentially, I think uh that's the caveat we give with leaving the bathrooms closed, the security's not on site, so we could definitely consider that.

I think.

Is the lobby still open when there's not security though?

Just not the restroom.

Just not the restroom, yeah.

Councilmember Bruce.

I was just taking some math in my head and just cost associated with microtransit per ride.

Yeah, roughly uh I wish I would have thought of it beforehand.

I uh did the quick math um a little bit before this meeting.

I think it's approximately 21, 22 dollars per rider.

So per ride, I guess not per ride, rider, yeah.

Per ride, yeah, because there could be multiple people on the vehicle, yeah.

Councilor Grant.

Um I was curious, where did we start out with microchansit as far as like a budget and range or coverage?

So this was literally like I think a year-long conversation we had with councils brought up, and we kicked it around.

Then we actually hired a consultant to think through well, we did microtransit, what's the best use of that service?

Um, so we we landed on after council study sessions and and looking at the current service at the late night, trying to serve those late night workers, um, and on Sunday service since we didn't have any Sunday service.

And the zone we left up to the uh RFP um proposers.

So that's where we we got the the initial zone, and it's kind of been tweaked and expanded over time.

But um we had added a Noble Parkway last year area.

And uh we've added, I think a little bit in Southeast Norman.

Um so but it uh initially it was it was a quite a bit of conversations with council um to get to the point of when we need it out for an RFP.

I was just wondering about um if we might need to walk back as many places as it goes, or uh bring down the budget a little bit on it.

Um just thinking about yeah, that's 518,000.

But you said the surplus was 5,890 590.

Yeah, so and then thinking about our other potential expenses because I do think the transit center being open and having bathroom access is pretty important too.

Um, and I know I hear from downtown uh businesses in that area about the heartache they have when they have people who are not their customers using their bathroom.

Um so just trying to find balance uh given the money we have to work with.

Um but I'm I hate to walk back on demand, but I do know if we do the RTA, doesn't that expand again?

Um the micro transit, yeah, micro transit options and coverage.

Um so the you might be thinking of the Central Oklahoma long-range transit plan, which isn't necessarily just RTA, what we were what we went through with ACOG last year.

It does propose um more microtransit zones in the metro plus expanding ours, but that wouldn't necessarily be funding from the RTA.

Okay, it's just an idea a thought, an idea.

Yeah, I didn't or maybe we find somebody else like OU, like I don't know, more Norman that might want to pay into it and expand coverage because they I don't know.

Uh is there any part of where the expansion happened that is not getting the use suites audit would get so um we could look at that.

I think uh size of the zone matters a little bit because if you're traveling from one end to the other, then it takes up that driver in that vehicle longer to get to and from.

So we could definitely look at that.

I think it's we could look at the hours.

Um but uh so we do 7 p.m.

to 1 a.m.

Monday through Wednesday, and then go to 3 p.m.

Thursday, Friday, and Saturday with the partnership with OU for Safe Ride Services, and then on Sunday we do 10 a.m.

to 6 p.m.

So we could look at shaving those hours down, and that's probably what will help.

Um we could also just uh there's some KPIs in our budget in our performance report.

If we cut um hours of service, then those KPIs would potentially be affected negatively, so wait times would go up and things like that.

So there's there's some triggers we could pull, but it will probably impact the service uh one way or another, which to your point if we need to save dollars, which well, and I was looking at embark well and I was like, uh I don't know if we'll get the grant or not, but it's also like oh, how would you pick that up an extra hundred thousand if you're not getting any grant money?

Right.

We we are waiting on that embark well uh grant notification.

We still are pretty confident we seems like a great program that totally fits with the the goals of that program.

Um but I think you're asking the right questions, you know.

Where do we want to how do we want to divide the pie to make it fit and leave something there to where we have availability in the next budget year to be able to do things that impact or benefit the program uh as a whole?

Yeah, and this is one of the uh the well program through T set, the fact of settlement endowment trust uh grant program.

That's a good example of they'll fund two to three years of service, but then if we want to keep it, we have to flip the bill right.

So if we get this grant, we can expect to have this for the next two to three years.

Yeah, we submitted for a three-year project a hundred thousand dollars per year.

So well, I hope we get it.

Yeah, it'd be good, it'd be a good addition to the transit system.

Are you um able to can you tell us the cost of MBA plus zone two?

Um I can't off the top of my head, but we can surely dig into that.

Uh I don't we don't really have a ton Larry, you and KB, you can correct me.

I don't know that the demand in zone two is a lot, but there certainly is a cost to it.

I I don't know if it's probably the amount of money that you're hoping it is.

It's not one I want to cut, it's just um covering 200 square miles when we're only required to cover maybe correct the the urban area plus um what is it again?

A mile.

It's uh three quarters of a mile as the crow flies around this fixed route.

So it would only actually only have to cover it probably to 24th, maybe 36th Avenue, but we cover the entire city limits with it.

And there's people with this, you know, mobility challenge disabilities that live past the lake that that use it probably, but um having an idea what that does cost to provide it to the entire city limits.

Maybe it's not very much.

But if we're uh thinking about the entire transit budget and uh what everything costs, I think that would be helpful.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, Councilmember Bruce.

I think the cost saving relationship are the costs, so the ratio split out between how did how that come out with OU and the city as far as the ratio?

I mean, how does that work?

Yeah, so uh the first year, and we're in year three.

The first year was really I think what the university could provide, um, which was about 12,000, I think the first year.

So last year we we looked at it from the ridership perspective, and um it looked like OU ridership of I think 19, 20 percent, and that's where the 131 came from.

Um pretty sure.

Uh sorry, I'm getting my my uh dates and everything mixed up with how many years we've done micro transit, but uh that's kind of where we've been tackling it is how much OU ridership is there, and can the university contribute that much?

And we track that because uh to get free safe ride rides, the um they have to register uh for the service with their OU email address.

So we're very confident in what the OU ridership is specifically.

So and then I have uh just a final slide of hey, we want to confirm those budget goals um that I listed in that that slide of trying to stick away from the general fund um as much as possible, especially in years like next year where we know that there isn't really any general fund to be had for any money.

Um while it would be a target, uh do we want to really commit to a general uh fund 27 reserve fund target?

And then um obviously what we've been talking about that last slide is some direction on best usage of that uh surplus, we'll call it uh 590,000 for next fiscal year.

And um is it is it uh what we talked about, microtransit, microtransit, maybe a little less service.

Is it saving it at all on reserve fund?

These are things that we on the revenues from the previous slide, it doesn't have the OU contribution on there.

That's and that's because the expense isn't on there, so uh and uh just the further complication things.

Obviously, we're in February, so fiscal year starts July one.

Um whatever direction we get here today, we'll work quickly to try to um work towards.

Um the university obviously has a stake in this, and in whatever um direction we get, they'll have to pivot potentially.

So we just wanted to come to you guys as soon as we could to get that direction after we work through the budget projections and see what you guys thought.

Okay.

Um for me, I would probably hold off on the main street frequency increase.

Um if we can get by another year with them funding the route 24.

Um that would be helpful.

Um then maybe think about a phased maybe next year it's 25,000 and then 50, and then and then we can get up to covering half of it or whatever we think our share would be, or how many people from Norman are using it, how many people from OKC, whatever.

Yeah, you know, whatever's fair there.

We can definitely spend time talking through that next next year.

Get into it, and then the I'd be supportive of the transit center security part, it's a low cost, and I think it would have a big benefit in the room.

The well hopefully ideally get that grant funded.

Uh, but we are hearing from seniors citizens, people over 50, apparently, in Norman's definition.

That at the awe that um that the uh that the embark well could potentially help address the transit.

And you just brought that up.

I do want to state that my understanding is the sidewalk there as we did on the north side of Johnson slash wellness way, depending on what you want to call it, have been completed.

Okay.

So the route from the existing bus stop to theirs, you could they'll be able to take that, they'll be able to cross the street, come in on the north side of the the building and not have to go all the way around to the street, all the way back through the parking lot to make it a much easier route.

And uh my understanding is that work has been completed on the sidewalk.

And it's while there are areas that I wish were in a little better shape, we got rid of the the most significant uh problems uh with working with uh the the hospital, but we did that as part of our sidewalk program to try to get better access to the well for our seniors from the existing bus stop and to the existing bus stop.

That's great.

I'll have to check that out and let everybody know at the awe that that happens.

We're gonna we're gonna reach out to them, and we also have our um ADA citizens meeting coming up where uh Ted or will or or Jason, whoever's attending that one, uh, we'll be able to share that information at that also.

But uh exciting news we're able to do something there, uh yeah, an incremental step to get us uh much closer and close the gaps.

Yeah, okay.

And uh the same agree with the comments from Council More Grant about the on demand.

Um there is a demand for it, it looks like, but it is very expensive.

Um we may need to look at how it cut that back a little bit to fit it into that surplus budget somehow.

Um keep it going, but maybe it's not as robust as we have it right now, unfortunately.

But um, so that'd probably be my position on it.

Neither council Dixon.

Well, thank you, sir.

Um, I'd say on this list, I agree with Councilmember Grant, uh, the transit center security services increase.

Um then I'll be willing to do the Norman Express.

And then I'd like to put above that to just to the surplus.

I mean, $21 a ride, that's that's extremely expensive on the on demand.

It's it's crazy expensive, and it competes against you know, local Norman residents who are Uber drivers, um, who actually do it cheaper.

Um so that's where I would be.

I I'd like to fund the transit center security and the Norman Express.

My thoughts I would just note that maybe part of the reason why it the expense there is on the on demand is ADA accessible vehicles and Uber and Lyft don't typically nobody that has that vehicle is doing Uber and Lyft.

And so that was one of the motivations for why council member Studley and Council Member Lynn came up with this was we had ADA advocates saying we want to we want to be able uh embark plus you have to schedule a day in advance, and we want to be able to go where we want to go right now and Uber and Lyft.

The private sector is not answering that call.

And uh so that's how we kind of came up with that, and maybe that's part of contribute because the vehicles are ADA accessible, but it's and that's Taylor's quick back of the napkin math.

Let me go back and confirm those numbers, you know.

And do we have a number of negatively per seat the ADA riders?

Yeah, that's in the moment support.

Uh sorry, I'm gonna skim over that.

I'll find it.

No, it's okay, it's a quick quick grab.

So uh so far this fiscal year we've had and they have to uh specifically request the wheelchair accessible vehicle, or they can click a button that they always request one.

But we've had 140 riders so far this fiscal year that have utilized the wave vehicles, riders or rides uh trips, but uh they'll take the usually if they're in mobility device, it'll take up the majority of the vehicle, right?

So um, but let me put let me make sure I go back and really get that math right so I'm not um overestimating, but I will also say I think it was very uh prudent of council to go through the process with a consultant for the microtransit and for us to go forward with the late night service and the Sunday service, really expanding that transit capacity and um service span because uh late night service on on big buses uh you know it's hard to get everywhere, and this while it seems inefficient, um a big bus would probably be more inefficient.

So if we're gonna provide late service, this is probably the way to go if that makes sense.

We've also talked about the potential for embark plus to evolve into a more on-demand with software upgrades or whatever, and that would be able to address the issue that our kind of goal was.

Yep, and we've uh we've been that's one been one of the bullet points uh talking with MBA 2 is eventually can we get to that goal of sort of possibly having a uh same day service.

Yeah, so council.

I was just curious.

So, what it does it cost to extend the hours that we run the buses.

Um, so like instead of 10 p.m.

ending at 11 p.m.

Well, yeah, I was just thinking about those late night you know, workers that have whatever shift.

Um, if we if we did it till 1 a.m.

every single night, and then three on the Thursday, Friday, Saturday, it it'd probably be more expensive than $600,000 because you know, four or five buses, uh each bus has a driver, and then the maintenance of fuel and that just it would add up pretty quickly.

So it's one thing to extend expand service on the same day.

Um, but when you start um adding service on Sundays, you're just you're adding a whole another uh day for lack of a better term, it's just a lot more complications.

Right now, expensive to do on demand, it's still a bit cheaper than trying to pick it up with regular service.

Right.

I I would argue that's probably the case, especially for late late night service like that.

It's supposed to fill in gaps where the fixed route doesn't go or when it doesn't run.

Or it doesn't make sense, yeah.

But yeah, we do have to think about it.

And then on the Sunday service thing, we currently get by with not providing fleet services over the weekend.

Um that's only one day that we provide the big bus service on Saturdays.

If we start getting to the Sunday, it's like do we need to have weekend fleet service?

Maybe, right?

Just in case something comes on or happens.

So um, yeah.

We do know that the general fund is uh probably not gonna have the ability to give anybody a subsidy.

So uh that surplus that we show right there is gonna be what we have, and that would like you said, not leave nothing left if we use it all.

So further counselor Gansry.

This also says that's great that y'all were forward thinking enough to have the surplus there or situations like this when it's entire year, we have something to fall back on the y'all help make sure was there.

So just to make sure I heard correctly, um we for sure want to add the 28,000 for the Norman Transit Center security increases.

Uh for microtransit, it would be preferred that we cut that service if we could to save some dollars, but we want to go ahead and put that forth in the budget next year.

So plan for it, and maybe we'll have a big windfall over the next four or five months.

Everything would be great.

But council member uh Bruce and then Picot.

The uh the idea of embark plus expanding that to capture that was they were micro transit for those that uh need the additional assistance.

I mean, I think it's a great idea.

First money is a great idea.

Of the 650,000 that we pay for that service, does the rider pay anything?

They do three dollars uh fare sort of trip.

So per additional dollar per stollar per person, so Scott and I went somewhere together be about four dollars.

So it's and that is credited on our monthly invoices, so we are seeing some savings from that.

I think it's about two to three thousand a month, if I was right, yeah.

Last time I looked besides the scratching the need associated with uh people that need assistance in riding with or need where we were trying to scratch at microtransit, the late night service worker, um stock shelf stalkers, things like that.

Uh we may take them earlier in the day to their job earlier in the afternoon, but um, because we ended at 10 p.m.

with the regular service, we had no way to get them home, so they'd have to take an Uber or walk or bike or whatever.

Um and that was the reasoning for the the late night service uh plus the Sunday service was added because we just didn't have any Sunday service.

So me, I I'm just I'm just talking out loud, you know, no offense to anyone, but the the well program pilot, if that those funds were like no one out and give those a well that well program is far more important in my mind.

I think it I think uh elderly stuff of that nature using the well program.

Am I correct?

High demand for elderly using the well program.

Is that correct?

Well, it could be correct.

I we haven't operated it before, so uh we're hearing that it would be in demand, but we don't we can't tell you the exact number, right?

Obviously, and embark has done uh this was last fall.

Um had did some number crunching, but uh we would pilot this program if we got the funding on uh hey, we can do this much, and then we'd see what demand we'd like to get really.

So they've had a pretty good track record, and every year they've done it in a cold city, it's gone up in demand, and uh I think it's very popular.

So I I can see why it would be probably pretty popular.

I really I really can't, but yeah, yeah.

You know, it is a is an absolute need compared to you know uh why you know I can understand it would be an absolute need for those people that can't afford to wait a day in park plus.

I can't afford a wait a day and I'm unable to drive because my fiscal handicaps are my inability.

I can understand that embark well, we we've talked about last fall that it would um serve people that couldn't utilize MBARK Plus because you have to be uh you have to be uh go through the criteria and be approved for it.

But if you are on MBARK Plus, you could also be um approved for MRC well, and that might har help MBARK Plus free up some capacity.

So it could be a really good program.

It's just it always comes down to dollars and cents for anything that we operate in the city, and unfortunately that's we're at a crunch number a crunch year.

What is the Koanus Cruiser?

I mean, what is the service they provide just for refresher on that?

Because we do contribute funding to it.

So the Kwanus cruiser, it gets funding um through the uh aging services uh uh funding.

Yeah, and I think Embark and for Oklahoma County actually receives that funding, provides services through it.

Um, but for Cleveland County, that's where they get it um through the Koanus Cruiser.

And it um is pretty uh general.

I think it just provides uh uh rides to elderly um folks in our community, if I'm right.

So maybe Jason, do you it's been a while since I've looked into it, but I'm pretty sure it's just generally elderly uh well I kind of got to think about what is there a similarity in the Mbark Well and the Koanas cruiser potentially potentially but embark well would be very targeted, so that way we're we're hit trying to meet some goals like wellness for seniors.

Yeah, I would also think that cancel it'll get yeah, I was just curious if the is the microtransit program still viable if we just reduce it down to kind of its core functions of ADA and late night access.

Like do we still have a program at that point, or is it or does the cost to operate become I'm sure there's an economy of scale here, and so if we just do ADA rides and late night rides, do we lose out on that economy of scale and has become so expensive at that point that it's not viable?

Well, I don't know if that's what we were proposing, but that's good clarification.

Um I think we were just talking about how we could decrease it in general.

I'm just so hours-wise or whatever, but yeah, I think if we're just providing and it depends on what you call late night.

So instead of starting at 7 p.m., do we start just at eight or nine?

How much money does that uh save?

But I think if we just uh provide ADA rides and safe ride rides, that might not accomplish what we want to accomplish.

So um we'll definitely go go back if that's council's direction is to keep doing micro transit and try to cut the budget.

Um but we really need to plan for that today because uh again, partners at OU, they need to pivot if we're not gonna do it at all potentially, and then we we need to make sure we get all our ducks in a row contracting wise with OU and with uh with the operator if that's something we're gonna continue to do.

So I don't know if that answers your question, but I think I took the direct direction to go back to the operator and OU and say, okay, what can we decrease and how much will that save us?

That's really where I'm at.

I'm supportive of the program, but if we could make it more efficient and streamline it any way possible to save some money, then yeah.

I have heard from the operator.

So if we start cutting days, so Monday and Tuesday aren't well ridden, then we start getting into well, transit riders really depend on consistency.

So maybe they don't ride every Monday, but if they know it operates Monday through Saturday at 7 p.m.

to 1 a.m.

For example, it's probably more user-friendly because and the great thing about Norman on Demand is is because it's on demand, they can only run one or two vehicles a night, but on the busy nights they can run three, four, five, right?

So we'll go back to the contractor, see how much we can potentially um decrease to keep the program running.

But uh as it stands on here, um, just the quick math, again, we'd have to fund the whole thing, but at the end of the year we'd have about 70,000 left over with the surplus that's projected.

Um if you add the transit center security services about 28,000, um, we get down to about a 40,000 surplus.

So it's like last year where we had a big we were very close dollars and cents on the transit budget.

And again, because things came up like the vehicle, we had to request general funding.

Depending on how things go next year, we we might not we'd have to potentially put off buying that bus, right?

And ask FTA to give us a uh a leniency to wait until next fiscal year to buy it, potentially, right?

There's just things that come up.

The the Gillig big bus purchase that we might need additional funding for.

We're gonna have to find that funding of a of about five percent if it comes to fruition.

Yeah, so well, and um it's not mandated that the public transit fund be self-sustaining.

That's just been our goal.

Okay and uh many other funds in the city are subsidized by the general fund in some sense, the PSST and others.

Um, and before the transit tax, the city's general the general fund was contributing five to seven hundred thousand dollars a year to transit um to that.

So that's helped relieve the general fund somewhat of that.

So um, but yeah, preference of trying to make it self-sustaining, and I think that helps make the case to the general public for why it's worth it.

It's still requirements.

We're very fortunate to have the transit sales tax.

Um I heard about every time I talk to other cities.

Council Robert Bruce.

Just point so on to the end.

Sorry, sorry, it's the population that I call upon for because they have a fiscal limit to compatition care.

Why would I call it if I was out there at one o'clock anymore?

Why would I call it Stone Uber Uber?

Why would I call it state of Uber?

Or if I need a ride, why would I call on demand versus well?

The cost is probably going to be cheaper because it's three dollars per ride.

Um might be more readily available because it is Norman focused, and we have dedicated vehicles out there.

Um where Uber is if you're an Uber driver, it just depends on if you want to work or lift or whatever.

So it can be a safety net if there aren't any other services available, especially because buses aren't running and yeah, the private sector might not be there to provide that service.

And that's really the the crux of the safe ride program, is sometimes there's not a service available, especially 30 years ago when they started it or most universities started it.

And then the uh the the goal of getting um university students home, no questions asked is uh is a big deal for the university.

So that's kind of the the safety net part, and we can kind of extend that to our general population too.

If they need a ride home, hopefully we can get them home without them having an issue.

So are you saying slowly so you're saying Uber is aren't available at certain times in Norman?

I haven't run the data, but they could be is what I'm saying, because they are based on if you want to work as an Uber driver, right?

Is that that's my understanding?

Well, there might be two of them working if there's a big event in the city or something.

Or they might go up to Oklahoma City.

Could be Oklahoma City, and that makes all our drivers rush up there.

People saying it can be difficult to get a lift or an Uber in Norman just because there's not a lot of availability.

Yeah, that's I 20 to have an exp, you know.

Maybe where the sure relationship changes as far as cost per ride out of my pocket, but I'm asking for a ride for means subsidize so much.

I'm sorry, can you say it again?

Increase the fare.

Oh, okay.

I was thinking about something else and kind of okay.

Yeah, when that's what we did this past fall, we increased it from two to three.

We can definitely that if that's council's direction, we could consider increasing it again.

So or we've talked about changing the model for fair, it's just a straight-up cost, maybe it's per distance, but our zone is kind of tight compared to other cities, so the distance model doesn't necessarily fit, it gets confusing.

So we could certainly look at that again.

Any other feedback comments about transit budget?

Any further meetings about it, and we'll be discussing it here every month, too, I'm sure as we lead up to the Zoom budget adoption.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you, Taylor.

And then Scott, we'll move on to item number three, which is city or uh downtown parking discussion.

Um just continues to be a point of discussion ever evolving.

We have business owners asking us about the timed parking.

We've got county commissioners asking about the paid parking around the courthouse.

Um so and then we you know recently created the parking and transit trusts or yeah, so uh we'd have a discussion about parking downtown just in June.

You don't get to get rid of us, we're gonna stay for this.

Good.

So uh we have a very uh quick slide presentation for you all, just uh given a general overview and then uh we can have some discussion.

But uh you may be familiar with some of these.

Uh we just came to you in November and then on December 9th to pass a uh new parking management plan.

So uh kind of going over some of those general um overviews again.

Transit and parking within public works kind of leads the coordination uh at the city.

Uh we took over after transit got settled, we added parking to the transit function a few years in, so about year two or three, and uh we've slowly been trying to um move operations over here.

We really take care of the um paid public parking, and then um obviously that touches the timed, and then parking enforcement with PD, uh traffic control is more that timed parking plus the signage and city clerk's office.

They uh historically handled the permits for the Gray Street lot, and we've taken that over this current year.

Um still work closely with them on things, and then uh municipal court obviously for any violations.

So again, that parking management plan adopted by council on December 9th.

Um we used to have two separate ones, one for downtown, one for campus corner.

Majority of it was just the same verbiage.

So we just compiled it and made sure that the separate areas like the rates and things were separated.

So we didn't have two documents to keep up with updated general information, um, updated payment options, uh, just general revisions.

And I I didn't include in this presentation, but we went from uh 25 cents an hour in like the gray street lot in the county courthouse area to 50 cents an hour, and then um in our ASP lot, which is uh just north of campus corner.

We went from a dollar an hour down to 50 cents to hopefully encourage folks to utilize that lot more, especially because the on-street parking in campus corner we kept at a dollar, so that incentivizes hopefully incentivize people to use that utilize that lot more.

So if 20 wait 50 cents, right?

Down from a dollar to 50 cents.

Yeah, 50 cents if you'll just walk one block.

Correct.

So it makes sense.

Um hopefully we'll see in that.

We also increased the oh, we'll get into the rates here in a minute for downtown, but we increase the rates for the gray street lot permits, and then um also uh are looking at uh ask block permits starting July 1, so giving us some times to get that some time to set that up, but that's what we're working towards now.

So here's the uh rates for downtown, since that's specifically what we're talking about here.

There's a lot of information on this slide, but it generally talks about what what I just went over.

Uh Gray Street lot and courthouse on street parking is 50 cents an hour, um, 8 a.m.

to 6 p.m.

We also have leases, 41 spaces in the gray street lot um for $600 for the annual um permit, and that was that's up from 450 dollars for the annual permit.

Um I don't remember last time it was updated, but it it's been that that much for a while, and then some just general uh information there at the bottom of how many spaces are in each of those those areas.

This map is a little busy, but uh given the general discussion of downtown parking.

I uh went in and just wanted to show a an overview of the timed and paid parking in downtown.

This isn't um I might have missed an area here or there.

I might have gotten uh one little bit wrong, but it gives you an idea.

So working up uh to the paid parking, we have no time limits in some areas in purple.

Um you can see some of those in the middle and on the outskirts.

Some 15 to 30 minute parking.

Um there's not very many of it in that blue.

It's there's a loading zone just on um on Crawford just south of Main, and then there's uh some right in front of the Norman Transcript, so not much.

The majority is an hour parking with the yellow, hour and a half parking with the orange.

Um, there's a little bit there on the west side of the tracks on Main Street, and then two-hour parking in the red, and then the green is the gray street lot, paid parking lot, and then around the courthouse is the other paid parking in downtown.

Um so the parking lot across Jones from the Sooner Theater, the city.

We own that that uh yeah, that one.

Yes, uh, I didn't include that because it's kind of it's free.

I didn't see that's what I'm I'm not saying this is a perfect map, but that's that is available also.

I wasn't sure if there was some weird weird thing about it.

No, and why it's there.

I just uh I need I need to formalize this map in uh our GIS system.

We just don't have the staff time to really go in and make a formal formal map.

But the intent here is just to concentrate on the on-street parking and the paid parking uh that that we manage.

There's lots of you know off-street parking that obviously is not uh accounted for in this map in any way because it's private.

That's a city lot, but it doesn't really fit the categories of what we thought we really wanted to be talking about today.

But it's a free lot that has no time limit.

I also didn't include any lots around the city complex, you know, that could be used after hours.

There's there's little tidbits like that.

And then east main, east of Porter, like the stash and fire station one.

There's no time limit down there.

I don't think I don't believe so.

Okay, so again, just a general overview, kind of given an idea of uh how the how it how it looks today.

So fascinating how one single block on Maine is an hour and a half.

And and we didn't realize that.

Uh when it came with that, I did the same thing.

Went what why is that one block?

We have no reasoning for it.

Um it just is so and ideally you would have the uh shorter timelines, obviously in the more popular areas, and then it kind of works that way here, but as you work out, it gets higher timelines or even no time left, no time periods, right?

So further wheel of the walk, right?

Council Grant and then we can um so there's red, is that Santa Fe?

Where it's got like no time, yeah.

That's like the maker lab, and the other one's scratched.

Yeah, uh correct.

I assume that is their most recent change to the two-hour I don't know.

We haven't changed anything recently in downtown.

Okay, I got a request for that and forwarded it on.

So I was just curious.

It's one hour on the north side on uh that's the one they want to change, right?

And wasn't it blue?

Do we change it for blue on Crawford?

Yes, that was a change was made a little ways back, yeah, about six months ago, something like that.

Correct.

Oh, yeah.

And with that, that's when we I thought you were talking about the color blue.

That's when we established to do that, we established the policy we have in place now that to change the timing limits.

You need to get 75% of the property owners or tenants, depending how you look at it on that block to agree because while two hours may be great for one person, two hours maybe horrible to somebody else.

They want people popping in and out, and somebody else needs two hours because they've got you know, patrons that are there for two hours.

So we want to make sure that we don't make it that have the change immediately get pushback from two-thirds of the block that say that's a real problem for us.

So we want to make sure that it's majority.

Um 75% of that block.

Is that what else?

I now I'm thinking about the coffee spaces and I see them.

So gray owl, that was another request was two hours.

A couple years, yep.

The people around them said yes.

And then I remember yellow dog asked, and I think that's so great that there is no time limit over by Highlands since it's where their employees are parking.

Okay.

So uh I know they gotta probably fight to get in there, but uh and I would say is uh parking enforcement like really just going through and on these two hour ones, like keeping the time, or it's a very labor-intensive job, and um it's my and they're still under PD, so uh I should have asked them to be to be here to help us answer some questions, but yeah, still chop tires, they still come back in two hours and look for chop time.

Yeah, because I know they get called out to press some plow off of Lindsay and is it Lohoma?

Yeah, I want to say because of the parking over there.

So, you know, they've got a range, they've got a cover.

Yeah, and I think this important note is parking enforcement, doesn't just handle the paid or time parking in town, they also handle uh every area of town that uh they can go to without having a police officer take care of it, right?

So yeah, and then I know people were surprised to hear that uh we don't really make money off of parking enforcement, so they're just convinced people are paying their tickets, I guess.

Well, and uh even the ones that are paying the tickets, yeah, we're still not able to recoup the complete cost of parking enforcement, which council member oh peacock didn't you have to have a question?

Yeah, it wasn't a question, just a comment.

I actually have to leave in about two minutes, so I want to get this in there.

Um I'd be in favor of making it all one and a half hour, maybe even potentially two hours.

Um, I get the idea of incentivizing turnover.

I mean, I I get that, but I also think this is our central business district, or you know, the most heavily trafficked foot traffic area of the whole city, and we want people to linger a little bit.

You want to be able to park and go to your first destination, finish up and go to a second or third potentially, um, all without having to move your car.

You want to be able to walk to those places, and so I I personally would be in favor of extending it across the district.

Now, if there was a street, like you said, that's got 75% of the businesses that want less time.

Maybe we start at two hours and people can reduce from there, but I would just be we could do that with council direction, yeah.

I'd be in favor of that, so I just want to put that out there.

Councilman Nofire.

I was actually gonna bring up something very similar to uh council member Peacock simply because if we did it in that nature, right now it's kind of confusing with where the time limits are whatever, and you always have to look at the signs to see how long you can stay there, and that would simplify it for everybody and probably result in fewer parking tickets in the first place if it's all just say one and a half hours everywhere.

15 to 30 minute parking, I would ask definitely ask them before just blanket covering.

But I would call those a special zone though, that's there for a reason.

And I don't know that we would do those particularly, especially because like the one is a loading and unloading zone.

That's a special zone, it has a special purpose.

Um yeah, I see a few of them.

Uh, because there's is that Crawford?

Yeah, so that's the loading and loading, and then you've got the the parking spaces right in front of the transcript, which was there for people to run in and run out and take care of business.

Yeah, yeah.

Just real quick, I do have a procedure question.

Does this have to go to planning commission and all that for approval?

It's just council, so there's no notification.

That's kind of what I was getting at.

Is it gonna be a notification?

Yeah, that's what I was it.

I was gonna say it might be worth just making sure that that's desired because you could it could be a case that they want the hour parking for sure, uh, especially in the more more heavily trafficked.

I think of a notification, even though it's probably not required, is a smart thing just to test the waters.

Yeah, and yeah, and also just put it in there because parking is one of those animals.

So, like if you got tatsumaki ramen, you know, what maybe one hour makes sense for the turnover, and I know that those people are going, even though there's no time limit on the other sides, but it's all full, they're going into mangoes parking, which is for customers only.

So, and that's caused some friction there.

Uh so I don't know, I don't know if there's a perfect answer, but definitely I guarantee whatever we choose to do, whatever council would would give us direction to do, somebody's not gonna like it.

Yeah, but what we need to do is just make those decisions.

Would council want us to move forward on those areas that currently have no time parking and make that two hours also or leave those as is.

And part of the reason I ask that question is because especially there along Jones, where there's currently parking, that is kind of designated parking for people that are utilizing Amtrak.

And so if you do that, you kind of start creating a weird issue there.

Um until the parking structure becomes available until there's another option.

So I would I would recommend maybe leaving that stretch for people who are going to the well because the well might need longer time frames.

We'd hate to have somebody who's doing something at the well that's a great accommodation for our Norman and our county residents to have to go out there and move their car in the middle of a of an event that they're at.

Um, so if if it would if we could entertain that idea, maybe leaving that area and maybe some of the other some of those other areas are really like four parallel parking spaces, they're pretty much full all the time.

Um but I would um I would prefer to uh make it consistent on Main Street.

I'd kind of favor the two hour, just yeah to us.

Um and maybe I mean ideally if the downtowners association would maybe give us a recommendation of what they prefer, yeah.

That would be helpful.

I know they don't speak for every business in proper order, but it would give us a pretty good idea, I think.

And then um, so I'd say Main and Gray Street be consistent two hours I'd uh the I would keep the no time limit parking for now, maybe where it's at.

But Maine and Gray and Comanche kind of have it uniformed with the two-hour parking.

You follow or yeah, you follow is almost entirely two hours except for that strip in front of the dairy, and I oh I'd be fine keeping that the way it is.

Um and then the other issue is the courthouse.

So uh Commissioner Hughes is here.

Um requested just a discussion about that situation.

It's the only street parking that we charge for downtown.

Um, and the discussion about people paying in the courthouse versus if there's a time limit, uh they may have to move their car while they're in the middle of the court.

I don't know.

But that was part of the motivation of the discussion too, is that it's clearly we have a hodgepodge of how parking is done in downtown Norman.

So a little bit more uniformity, I think would be helpful.

And then I know there's plans to you know close Comanche that block of it in front of the court or next to the courthouse.

Um, and then future plans with parking structures and potentially paid parking, street parking in the future.

So wanted to mention that too.

Uh Kids were grant.

Yeah, I was thinking about the future closure on Comanche.

I'm okay with it paid just for the fact that you could be guaranteed, and I assume those you could be in the port and add the time through your phone.

Um, and I do like the purple where the well and that strip is because somebody from the courthouse could park over there and walk over too.

Uh but in the future, I guess Comanche is gonna be offline, but but maybe but by that point we have a parking structure, and the whole downtown is paid parking.

So uh I'm kind of leaning towards keeping the purple and the green where it is.

Customer Dixon.

Um I was gonna see if we could uh recognize Commissioner McCuse to kind of talk about what the county's thinking or so.

Yeah, if you'd like to chairman, thank you.

Uh so just an update.

Um, we're working pretty diligently on the parking garage across Comanche.

So I think we're there's a lot of contract and contract a contract, but we are very close to getting that deal done.

I feel like within about 18 months, we'll have a parking structure there.

Uh so we're cooking with gas.

Uh we did put in a request with the city manager on obviously closing Comanche.

We feel like that'll be like a beautiful courtyard uh for the courthouse.

Uh one other thing that I brought uh to the attention, some of the council members and mayor, um, as you guys know, it's it's mayhem when we're trying to come in and pay property taxes inside the courthouse.

We feel like uh I view it a lot, like I do the state capital, it's a public building.

We need to be able to service the taxpayers who are coming and paying for core services of government.

Um, you know, and and I'd leave that up to the council as what that looks like, but really, you know, we could do the you know the immediate parking around Jones, Peters, and Fala.

I'd really highlight that to the to the members and just say, look, it's probably not 1520 spaces, but it would be nice to have that for some veteran parking, some additional veteran parking.

Uh also specific to the county offices, and whatever you guys think that needs to look like, if that's a two hour parking, that's great.

But I think the residents and and your constituents would really appreciate that.

Uh it is a zoo when you know whenever they're trying to process property taxes, it's crazy in there.

Uh jury trials are also insane.

So I think with the parking garage, we're working on our side, but I I made a couple of requests with the mayor on that.

I feel like that that's uh you know, a good ask back out for the public.

Uh not not having to meter and get into the building.

So thank you.

So the just to be clear, the preference of the county would be uh timed parking around the courthouse instead of paid.

I'd leave that up to the pleasure of the board, but anything where they don't have to go necessarily um a two hour would be good, mayor.

I mean, uh if I had my wish list, we just put signage out there and designate it for that office for probably two hours per each office.

Um but I would leave that up to the pledge report, whatever they want to do.

Um, but I just want to expand opportunity for people to have access to a public building without having to pay a meter.

That's really where I'm at.

So I do have a question.

Is there a problem with them parking over by the uh the purple across the way?

I know the train tracks kind of biceps it.

Yeah, it's really from a legal standpoint.

Well, we don't even like sending our own employees over there to cross the train track.

Um they can, but really, like right now, north of uh the empty lot that we have north of Comanche, we just let the general public park in there right now.

And they're already doing that.

So I'm I'm about like I said, public building, I don't I hate charging people for if they're coming in to pay property taxes, it in turn goes to education and burnt the bridges.

Like we need to look at it at that angle, is what I would argue to you guys.

Um and I appreciate the board, uh, councilman and Dixon and the mayor were very um that was well received when I when I brought that to y'all's attention.

Um I just feel like like I said, it's it's something that when you see people plugging the meter and fighting to get inside the courthouse, it's just tough for me to see that.

So I would say our long-range plan is to meet all of downtown.

So just putting it out there, that's just the point.

Okay, you have a recognition that when the gray and peters parking structure goes up, that um the combination of parking uh time limits and or rates to park in the structure versus park on the street, like the recent changes on campus corner, cheaper to park in the lot, cheaper to park in the structure than it would be to park on the street, but yeah, I mean different time limitations.

So if you're gonna be there a long time, we want to save some money, park in the structure, cost you less.

If you're you know gonna be doing your downtown business, there's a two-hour limit, park on the street, two bucks, do all your shopping and call it a day.

Free parking is a way for cities to incentivize economic activity, though.

You know, people really love when you go visit an outtown place and you don't have to worry about am I parked on the right place.

I'm gonna get towed.

I'm in this town, I've never been in before.

Um, and you can just go shop or eat or whatever you want to do.

So there's something to be said about that.

It is it feels good to be able to just go to downtown park and not have to worry about doing messing with all that.

Councilman College.

Uh I just kind of wanted to piggyback off what the commissioner said.

Um just me personally, um, it is to have parking around the courthouse, and I've only been to honestly the Cleveland County Courthouse when I was adopting children.

So if you're ever there on a day where it's a day for adoption, it's a crazy house.

And there's no parking because everybody obviously brings their whole family because everybody wants to see that happen.

It's a big deal.

And so that is a crazy day at the courthouse, and there's nowhere to park.

And my daughter got towed.

So yeah.

I just would like to see something different by around the courthouse, also.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Yeah, yeah.

I just want to say uh the goal, at least in my mind, I know it could vary from city to city.

The goal of of metering and parking enforcement is that it's compliance and then also economic development, that turnover we talk about.

So obviously we want to viewers uh think about the the free times versus metering, but if it makes more sense to be free, that yeah that makes sense.

But I just want to the the parking enforcement folks, I know they have a very labor-intensement job and they they work hard and I think they tried consistent, I think for them.

Right, but they block the same.

I think their goal would be not to have to issue any tickets or anything, and they're just I just want to be cognizant of that that they're they're out there uh try we're we're we're trying to incentivize the the turnover so that businesses would get more businesses, right?

So it and and you know, in the grand scheme, the opportunity for a different funding model basically uh pay for parking to be able to provide more parking and add parking capacity, which is what we hear that there is development sitting on the sidelines waiting for a parking solution in downtown.

There is development pressure on the sidelines on campus corner waiting for a parking solution.

All those parking lots, just insane.

And yeah, I mean if it in the opportunity to say, hey church, um, we know Sunday mornings the big the big busy time for you.

Could there be public parking when church isn't happening?

Uh can't can you more fully utilize maybe contractually some of the open parking lots all the way around potentially, yes.

The concept of could you develop parking structures to really get that parking density up with TIFF revenue for that east main TIFF program?

Could you take a bigger chunk of that revenue and pay for parking structures and and provide that free parking for everybody downtown?

Potentially, you know, the same on ASP.

And that's a model we don't see in our neighboring agencies, Oklahoma City.

You pay to park everywhere, and they use the money to pay for parking structures.

They don't have a TIFF set up to do that, but potentially council could.

The East Downtown folks uh around the 400 block of Maine.

Um, that's our parking, and they definitely want us to fix it up.

So that TIFF will definitely be addressing those folks' interests.

So um so I'd say all of the yellow make it red.

We'll just go to two, we'll just go to two hours basically.

Yeah, and like with the standard, it's no time limit, but the standard is the only business that faces Gray Street on that side of the street on that whole block.

So I don't think they would hate more turnover to be honest.

So it's two hours, them too.

And we I put in what was there prior to the gray street construction.

Um we've been talking internally about that being updated with the Grey Street coming back online.

Added some new street parking on Grady since then or part of that.

So yeah, if that's if there's any other thoughts on any of that.

And good news, um, we have our own signed shop, and if we make such a change and it blows up, we can change it back.

I think it's pretty, yeah.

What should we make those lines in a house?

Oh, those we don't.

I think we may purchase those.

I'm not positive.

I think expensive that directly, but I'd hate to 50-50, it's one or the other.

Yeah, it's not cost prohibitive.

It's one or the other any other thoughts on downtown parking okay.

So it's so not all red parts, it's gonna be all red.

Yellow being all red.

Anything that anything that's not currently purple, go to red.

And with the courthouse, I mean I don't have a problem with the two hour thing.

Um so red around the courthouse too.

And uh councilman.

Yeah, what is it?

What are we collecting off that?

I doubt it's enough to cover that.

I bet it's not much.

Okay, here we go.

So we this is our last slide here, but uh basically based on the rate change, and I know we're running short on time with the last item, but uh the gray street lot, we're thinking we'd get about $15,000 um with the 50 cents up from 25 cents, and then the courthouse on street, we would go up to about 23,000 um with the rate increase.

And then that paragraph below is talking about the gray street lot uh uh permit rate increase, and that uh we have all but three spaces uh that were accounted for this year.

Um, and thankfully nobody uh complained about the rate increase.

So we are doing well with that and increase the revenue from that um lot, but obviously if we take away the meters around the courthouse, that revenue would not be there anymore.

And then um I did want to say for the gray street parking lot as we start affecting um time parking on Main Street and Gray Street, that could affect people wanting to park in the Gray Street lot because of uh the incentivizing to be able to park longer and not have to worry about uh enforcement or anything.

So just as a caveat, that could affect the revenue on the gray street lot.

Are these numbers factoring into that surplus that we talked about in the previous item?

No, that the previous time was all transit only.

This is parking only.

We really look at them, even though they're kind of combined, we look at them as two separate funds systems.

Yeah, so you didn't um that 13.8, that's what we're collecting now, roughly roughly if we kept it at 25 cents.

So if we decide not to collect it anymore, we'll be losing 13.

We'll be losing the potential increase.

Well, we already have the increase in place.

So the potential increase we're saying that that with the potential increase included, it's 19 for this year and 27 because we have a whole year of collecting at 50 cents, it would be 23.

So we'd be losing 23,000 of revenue.

We gained 23,000 in revenue, it would be a wash.

Um, but this fund is grossly under budgeted anyways.

So this doesn't include the uh expensive and those those meters like the um fees we pay to Floorbird and things like that.

Right.

Um what was the okay?

Yeah, there's an economy of scale, volume-wise, we're not there yet.

Um I don't know if Oklahoma City's there yet in terms of the number of pieces of hardware they have to collect parking revenue from all their paid parking systems.

We could get some pushback, but uh some agencies have started going to more uh asset light, so they put up the sign with the QR code and say pay to park, use the QR code instead of a machine instead of a machine.

Um but you could get pushback from those that don't want to use their phone or so just something to consider for future areas, um, either areas that are on the periphery or new areas.

People are are considering using just QR code and signage even for street parking.

Yeah, technology will continue to evolve to make it better, faster, cheaper to enforce whatever rules established by the council.

So well, maybe we could do something to figure out the cost of that equipment that we put in.

And the parking meter was invented in Oklahoma or something.

Oklahoma City.

I don't know, the year on the cutting edge of this stuff right here.

Okay, not making it in the shopping card.

If we do it, let the county tell us we never did anything from Oklahoma.

Thank you for that.

The council just real quick, I'd I'd like to continue the the county um kind of conversation around there.

I mean, we provide free parking spots here at our lots.

Yeah, um, I always get confused if I'm supposed to park there or in the employee park a lot when I come up here.

Um, the only reason people are doing that is to do governmental business.

Um so I'd like to continue that conversation.

Uh yeah, and I'm gonna the post office.

So that strip that's in front, which has no time isn't being redone as part of the street project either, which is because it's other interesting thing to me.

Right away, yeah.

Um yeah, which is weird, but um it's not timed, it's not it's not even it's private parking public, it's private.

Okay, but nobody would know that it doesn't say that.

Oh, yeah, they would just assume it's the same as all that.

Okay, so you don't really get to say what the time limit is in a private one.

No, and even to your point about the mango and like even if we change the times, that might not affect that's gonna be the property owner's responsibility to enforce their lot.

Yeah, that makes sense in the post office too, if they needed to.

So we want to proceed with or leaving the parking around the courthouse and make it two hour like the rest of the area.

Um or is that further discussion point?

Maybe further discussion point because we were talking about what were you saying?

The equipment cost was the same as what we'll get in fiscal year 27.

Or did I misunderstand?

Yeah, just based on the new rates for one full fiscal year.

If we didn't collect around the courthouse but have the new rates in place for a whole year, we break even right exactly where we are today.

Yeah, with the increase at the gray lot.

Lose 23 around the courthouse, pick up 23 at the gray street lot.

No change.

Uh yeah.

Yellow to red.

Okay.

Yeah.

Green to red.

Yeah.

We go from growth to solid green to red.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um, okay.

Final anything comments about the that part downtown.

Okay.

All right.

Uh this last item on the agenda.

No, great.

Thanks for supporting.

Thank you, staff.

So let's uh that'll be a continued discussion downtown parking as always.

Uh project updates and discussion of the access Oklahoma East West Corridor.

This is our four.

This should be pretty short.

There's not a whole lot of real dramatic changes since last time we spoke.

We want to keep you informed and keep transparency with you.

As we talked about before, they awarded the contract on the bridge over the Canadian River.

They will be mobilizing early March.

I've heard anywhere from the first to the second week.

So they will be under construction.

We'll be seeing equipment moving in.

They may not be done a lot of hard at the very beginning, but they'll be setting up and getting out there and getting that going.

So they have uh reached out to us and said, let's work together on this.

And as a part of that, uh what the latest discussions were is that they would basically come in and build all of what we were calling phase two, which is just a little bit north of Franklin Road to Indian Hills, because basically that entire structure will be underneath the roadway.

It was with our design too.

Uh so they would be they would construct that as part of their projects.

It will save the city of Norman on the magnitude of three and a half to four million dollars.

We're still the numbers kind of it's all estimates right now.

Uh, and that they would do that, and that we would participate with about 2.2 million dollars uh with some in-kind services that we've already completed that we had to do for our project.

Um we'll be bringing that agreement to council for discussion and for further consideration.

Hopefully on the 10th.

Uh we haven't gotten back.

It is an agreement, not a resolution.

Um, so it will be city does this, they agree to do this, signed and sealed, and that's the agreement that we all operate under to move forward.

Uh just to kind of let you know what their schedule looks like.

Letting means bidding, it's the same word, just a different term.

Uh so right now they're looking at August uh 2026 that they would be bidding the interchange at 60th Avenue Northwest.

So that's coming up pretty quick.

Uh these dates are kind of fluent, so if you see them change, don't shoot the messenger.

It's just they're moving things back and forth as they need to.

Uh, to try to accommodate the work uh on 36th, they moved back the bid date uh for the section from 48th to 36th of September.

Uh that would be that that would be under construction probably right around the first of the year, just before the first of the year.

Uh also they are talking about the bridge and approaches over 48th Avenue.

So the bridge at 48th Avenue Northwest would be under construction.

Uh October, they're coming back, they're bidding the grading and the drainage and then bidding the paving separately.

That's just the way they're setting up their contracts.

Uh, there's got to be an economy to there's a reason they do that, but they are looking at talking about bidding that in October.

That one may slide based on the movement of the previous contract.

Uh 36th Avenue Northwest would be November 2026.

Uh, if you're looking at their their bid letting schedule from their last authority meeting, it said northeast.

I called and went, is that supposed to be northwest?

And I'm like, yeah, that's northwest.

So good news there.

Um and then January 2027, they're gonna start bidding the section from 36th Avenue across I-35 to the railroad.

Uh so you're gonna start seeing construction in that area quickly.

Uh looking further out, they're looking at the porter uh bridge structure for this in the first part of 27, the first half of 27 with lots more uh bids coming up.

So lots of activity coming.

It's gonna look like a definite construction zone across North Norman for quite a long time.

They're still saying there'll be traffic moving east-west from I-44 to I-35 by the end of 27.

So I also had a request about what's going on on Highway 9.

So uh we we reached out to our partners.

I had my meeting with uh Ron Brown with ODOT.

Uh that project did begin back in September 24.

It has been a pretty long project, but it was a 420-day construction project, so it's right on par with that.

It's basically substantially complete at this point.

They're gonna be probably starting to remove barrels, get striping done, and that's gonna be just ready to go.

And and we're not gonna know it.

We're not gonna remember what was there before uh pretty soon.

So that's really good news on that one.

And with that, I would be happy to answer any questions about any other project, these projects or anything else that's out there.

One second, go back to the highway nine.

No, we missed it.

No.

It looks like they did that section to accommodate the future six lane of uh correct.

Correct.

Highway nine from I-35 to East 24th, which has been in their 10-year plan for like the last 15 years or eight-year plan.

So I don't know when they ever expect to actually.

Well, they're currently doing a study, uh having a study completed that is looking at that whole section and what would be the best uh service for the community and for the for the highway system.

And that is currently ongoing, and we're expecting to get them to come back and talk to us any time now.

Uh we had a meeting set up several months ago, and they went, wow, we're making some tweaks.

And so we're waiting for them to come back.

Um, but I'm expecting it not just to be a six-lane to be more like a freeway system with overpasses and it actually operate like a highway of that capacity should without having the problems with signals and other items.

I think that we're gonna now again it's not the eight-year plan, so I don't want us to jump up and down that we're gonna see something really soon.

But there are the items coming that will benefit that that stretch of well and and Scott, I I contemplate the cost of widening the whole thing to three lanes each way, versus the cost of interchanges and removing the points of the context.

I need to be six lanes at the end of the day.

It needs to be way safer if it could be both.

I I don't know, I haven't seen anything yet.

But we're we'll be getting more information on that as soon as I get that information and it's shared with me.

I will bring it back to the next CPTC.

I will we will discuss it and we'll have an open conversation about what the proposing.

If there weren't all those traffic lights, it'd be a lot easier to get to Lloyd Noble Center from lots of places.

And just as a reminder to the committee, uh next month, uh uh ODOT is going to be coming with their consultant to share with us uh the findings of the safety audit from 24th or 36th, they went all the way up to uh I believe 108.

I'm having struggled with that.

Okay, how would safety audit the highway nine safety audit?

I'm sorry, so they'll be bringing you that that that information with what their recommendations are, and there's some items on that that we were already.

We we went for a grant to do some lighting at intersect street lighting at intersections.

We didn't get that, but we're still looking at options and opportunities to be able to move forward or some low-hanging fruit for that corridor.

I would say on our next CPTC, maybe uh a discussion about the ODOT, the uh portal they have right now with the corridor, the Robinson to 4th Street and more, and they're taking comment on that.

They've got concept designs of each other.

That's still gonna be open by our next week.

Yeah, maybe closed by our next week.

I can't remember the day song, but that may be closed by our next week.

Well, um, everybody I would encourage you to take a look at it.

And if you have uh there's a couple points on it I saw, like the Franklin bridge and how that would connect to flood.

I found I that seemed a little weird to me.

And but if there's anything you notice about it that we need to comment as on as a city before anything goes forward, let Scott know.

You can you can go to the ODOT website and go under public meetings, I think, and there's one, it's it's virtual, they give you a quick description of it.

You can go through and look at what all the roadway discussions are and where new and future changes would be made.

Um, it is going to a one-way front into road system.

It's got an interactive map where you can see what it looks like now, and then you like move the slide that shows what it would all how it all be reconstructed, each bridge, each interchange.

There's there's a lot of information there.

Uh on and off ramps at Rock Creek Road, where that how that would work and where and all that type of stuff.

So yeah, I do keep telling people they're not really gonna do on and off as much.

But they're they call them X ramps, it's more like what you see in Texas, where you may get off half a mile or two miles before and travel the service road and then get back on a mile or two down.

So they're not gonna be building an interchange as such at Rock Creek, but there will be access to and from I-35.

Same at Franklin for a bridge there.

So okay.

Um that's what the questions I had about ODOT stuff.

Uh questions about uh OTA stuff that you just talked about.

No, uh you answered my question.

The only one I had was on the uh Highway 9.

Whenever you're saying service, what services they were going to put in.

I was just curious about that, but you answered it immediately.

So that yeah, and I I do not want to I I want them to present what they found, and I want them to be able to to answer your questions.

I don't think I could do that uh effectively, but they're gonna have their consultant here, and ODOT will be here, and they will that they're coming to try to help us.

Councilmember Grant.

Um so on the OTA agreement.

Yes.

Uh when is that an agenda item?

Uh we're trying to get it off for the 10th.

Mario.

Okay.

Thank you.

Councilman Roost.

When that when I make sure projects right between two municipalities like this, and so you have the OTA bringing in a lot of material, just tons and tons of material.

How does that work out for allocation of you know tax that are associated with that material?

So make sense.

Um, there's a ton of paperwork that uh agreements can be reached to identify a point of sale for such construction materials.

Um there are big swathes of products and companies that are exempt from sales tax right off the bat.

I think there's 41 exempt products or companies that the state legislature has approved in the last handful of years.

If the product is not exempt and the company buying it's not exempt, agreements can be reached to say, hey, uh, why don't you do all this paperwork for us and have this address, your your lay down yard be the point of sale, and um so it is achievable, and you'll see that in um well as an example in the entertainment district tax increment finance map.

It is anticipated that the developers will identify that real estate as the point of sale, and then that will also receive a match from the State Department of Commerce's uh sales tax.

Um so it's it's doable, it's a bunch of paperwork, and you gotta have everybody agree to do the paperwork to get that sales tax allocation.

Okay, any other questions, comments about this item?

Okay, okay.

Well, thank you very much, staff.

Appreciate your time and work on this.

Uh we had all a full council here for this committee today.

Sound like a study session.