Recording in progress.

Recording stopped.

Recording in progress.

All right, great.

Good evening, everyone.

This is a special study session agenda for the Pacific Grove City Council today, November fifth, twenty twenty-five at four PM.

We're here in Council Chambers of Pacific Grove, California, three hundred forest Avenue, and I'm calling the meeting to order.

All council members are present today, and we're going to do a study session on the five-year CIP and identified infrastructure needs.

Oh, and can I get an approval for this special agenda?

Move to approve.

Second.

All right.

Motion by Emilio, second by Rao.

Uh and any opposed or uh take a voice vote.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Seeing none.

Passes unanimously, and we'll go ahead and turn it over to Mr.

Goh for item one A.

Mr.

Mayor, if I could just really quickly just kind of set the stage for what we're doing here today.

First of all, um, in our in our work plan this year, one of the items we're identify is to create a five-year CIP.

Um, so what we're going to show you tonight is is kind of the framework for that and how far we've gotten and how much more we need to build into the future.

Um, this is a study session, so at the end of tonight, where there's going to be no actions that are being asked of anybody.

So tonight's agenda is just to provide the information, the educate answer questions, let the community get involved and start the conversation.

So no expectation of um any decisions or anything tonight.

So with that, I'll turn it over to our crack team who's been working hard on this.

And we will be providing the public an opportunity to comment as well as soon as the presentation's completed.

Thank you, Mayor Smith.

Um, Miss Hallaby today is going to be given the presentation.

We've all seen her excellent presentations that she's given in the past.

So let's just give it to the All-Star and let her do it.

And then we'll be here for questions, comments after the presentation.

With that, it will probably drum up some questions.

We're going to do our best to answer those questions.

If we're not able to answer any of the questions that come out of this this evening, we will get you responses and then send it to the group.

At this point, then I'll hand it over to deputy city manager Hallaby.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It's quite the introduction.

Um, I'm gonna go ahead and jump right in.

So the purpose of today's study session is really twofold.

The first element is to provide an update on the development of the city's five-year plan, which as Matt mentioned is an element of the city council's community goals and work plan for the current period.

The second facet is to highlight two key infrastructure areas, which are pavement and facilities, where we have really strong and robust data and we have some insights that we can share in terms of long-term need.

So, why does a five-year CIP matter?

A five-year CIP is actually a really vital tool for any municipality because it helps plan for the future and helps cities invest in the infrastructure that supports the day-to-day life in our community for community members.

It ensures that we have major infrastructure needs identified and can plan for them and address them before they become costly emergencies, right?

So the more we defer maintenance, the more challenging it becomes to address.

It allows the city to prioritize projects, coordinate work across systems.

So it allows us to do underground sewer infrastructure before we pave a roadway, align funding with timelines and goals, leverage opportunities like grants where possible, and maximize the funding that we do have when it's available.

So the goal really is to build a data-driven roadmap that will identify long-term needs and really support a much more proactive asset management strategy in the long term.

So building the five-year CIP is quite an endeavor, as you can imagine, because to accurately assess our infrastructure priorities, we first have to evaluate and document all the asset data that we do have.

So historically, the city has really only had strong data on the sewer collection system.

So in 2014, the city did a sewer collection system master plan, and that gave us a really robust 10-year outlook on what we needed to do for our sewer collection system.

And we've used that as a guidebook for the last 10 years.

Happy to report that we're currently implementing the last three projects of that plan.

So right now, that's really useful data.

Looking forward as it relates to sewer, we don't necessarily have that data anymore.

We need to do a new study for uh looking forward.

So since 2019, we've actually made a really concerted effort to expand data collection efforts to into to include two of our major categories, which are pavement and facilities.

And you guys have heard that over the last few years as we brought items forward to council, and that really signifies significant strides to a much more proactive CIP and to a more robust five-year CIP.

So this table is included as attachment one.

I won't linger here for too long, but this summarizes the city's five-year infrastructure categories and the subcategories and the current level of available data that we do have.

So some takeaways here that we have some systems where you have where we have very complete and reliable data to look at our long-term needs and understand them.

The great example here, pavement and facilities.

We have other areas that have partial data.

So the example I just mentioned was our sewer collection system.

We have really great data that takes us through next year, and then we don't have as strong data and we need to look at another study.

We have some categories of infrastructure where we know a study cost, but we haven't done the data collection portion.

So we need to allocate funding and move forward with actually assessing and obtaining that data.

And then we have a few systems where we lack any sort of baseline information and we don't know what a study cost is.

An example of that would be our sidewalk infrastructure.

So the takeaway is really that we've made significant process in obtaining data as it relates to our infrastructure and understanding needs, but we still have work to go to close some of those gaps.

But what we do know today provides us with some pretty insightful feedback to understand five-year and 10-year needs for some of our uh facilities and infrastructure.

So this table is identified infrastructure needs.

So it summarizes our known quantified infrastructure needs for assets that have been assessed.

So this is also included in kind of greater details attachment three to the report.

But it does not include, I want to highlight it does not include any unknown needs, so areas of infrastructure that have not yet been assessed, so sidewalks, great example.

And it does not include any future study costs.

So this is only identified need, things we've assessed and we know we need to address.

And so a kind of closer look at the totals, it shows that over the next five years, we've identified over 37 million dollars in infrastructure needs.

The following five years after that, 18.1 million, bringing the total 10-year needs to 55.7 million.

So what this tells us is it's really just a snapshot of needs, but it also highlights you can see by the TBDs throughout this chart that additional data is needed, especially for some of our major sewer um system, sorry, major infrastructure systems like our sewer system to complete the role full picture here.

So this next slide takes it a step further.

So the last slide we looked at what we know identified needs are.

This next slide shows funding gaps.

So it takes that infrastructure need and compares it with available funding and then highlights where that funding falls short.

So there's a much more detailed version of this.

This is just a summary snapshot included in the attachments.

And the totals column here in yellow at the bottom shows the unfunded need in millions.

So again, that's the gap between the identified needs, so things that we know we need to do, and the secure and available funding that we know we have per category.

And so the takeaways here is looking at the five and 10 year totals.

We have 11.7 million dollars in unfunded need over the next five years.

9.5 million in the following five years, and that brings our total over 10 years to 20.7 million.

And again, that's unfunded need, things that we know we need to do, but we don't necessarily have a funding source to do it.

So addressing the funding gaps is just kind of one part of the challenge.

I want to quickly show that we also need to close some of those data gaps I mentioned to fully understand future needs holistically and comprehensively.

This table here, which is included as attachment two to the report, shows some of the assessments that we know we need and costs if we have them, cost estimates where available.

And so you'll see there's at least 1.3 million dollars in studies that are needed to close some of those data gaps that we have today and give us a much more robust five-year CIP and really outlook into our infrastructure needs in the long term.

So what's next as it relates to the five-year CIP?

The CIP development is ongoing, it's kind of a living document.

As we get data, it evolves and improves.

In the future, we hope to complete data collection for some of those missing areas, refine these cost estimates and funding assumptions, and eventually expand the five-year CIP beyond just projects, but to include capital outlay items, so vehicles, equipment, IT infrastructure as well.

So this is an iterative process.

It's better than it was.

There's still room to grow and improve.

So now we're gonna move from kind of the big picture, the five-year CIP to some of our key systems, which are pavement and facilities.

So our pavement network at a glance, and again, we're gonna focus on these two because we have really robust data and have some insights that we can share.

Our pavement network is comprised of 65 center line miles.

Back in 2019, we partnered with TMC to do an assessment of all of this pavement and develop the pavement management program.

Best practices, the pavements are reassessed every five years, and we've been up to date with that.

Our last update was completed in 2023.

The PMP is another vital tool that most municipalities have, and it helps prioritize maintenance and rehabilitation, maximize the limited available funding that there is for roadways, and again, better plan long-term investments.

So before we can really talk about what's next and what's planned for next, we need a clearer picture of how our pavement is performing and what the conditions are today.

So pavement condition is actually measured by a term that you've probably heard me say before in prior presentations, but pavement condition index rating, PCI.

And what that is, the score from zero to 100.

Zero represents a failed road, 100 is like a brand new sparkly beautiful road.

And there's a sliding scale here on this screen where you can show the different category groupings.

Our current PCI is 55, and this is a network average, right?

So roads are some roads are better, some roads are worse, but the network average is 55, which is the fair category.

Um, the graph on the left-hand side shows the historical PCI trends from 2020 to date.

So you'll see in 2020 our PCI was 52.

In 2022, it increased to 60 and decreased down to 55, which current state today.

And the reason I'm showing this graph is just to articulate that PCI fluctuates each year based on two factors.

So one is the work that we complete.

So when we do a project, we update the data and say, you know, these roads now, their PCI increases because we've done some maintenance or rehabilitation treatment.

But then all of the roads that we defer and don't touch actually end up degrading in the system.

So there's like this powerful mathematical equation that works in the back end to show how the roads would naturally degrade.

So PMP is continuously modeling deterioration and improvement, and they're dynamic, data-driven, and ever-changing.

I wanted to go a layer deeper to show you that while our PCI remains the same as 2019 when it was originally assessed at 55.

Um, the targeted investments have paid off.

So we've been able to reduce the share of roads in poor or failed conditions.

So the graphs on the left-hand side show poor roads in orange and very poor roads or failed roads in red.

And you'll see that that total combined went from 54 to 40% of our roads.

And then we've also increased the number of roads that are in the good or very good category in the yellow and green on the left from 47 to 60.

So the progress is notable, but again, there's still work to do.

40% of our road network still needs some major infrastructure repair and continued investment will just help us move forward towards shifting to maintaining good roads, which is a much more cost effective strategy in the long term than having to do a very costly rehabilitation on a roadway that was once in good condition, but just didn't receive maintenance treatments and eventually degraded into a failed or poor condition.

So with that, now that we understand the current condition, we can look a little bit further at needs.

So the pavement management program recommended that the city aim for a pavement condition index rating average of 70 within a 10 year span.

So the goal is to get to 70 in 10 years.

In order to do that, the needs are 12 million dollars over the next five years and 24 million dollars over the next 10 years.

And attachment five includes some additional detail, but you'll see the amounts in the totals year over year on the screen.

I do want to note a very important caveat that these figures do not include any sort of underground infrastructure, so sewer or stronger improvements, which we typically do before we address a roadway.

ADA or sidewalk improvements, which are often elements of a street project, right?

Because we sometimes need to address ADA or pedestrian safety as an element.

But these numbers just include the surface treatment of the pavement.

Something we all know, the further we differ maintenance, the higher it costs later.

And the strategy here is really to fix the worst roads first and then focus on prevention, right?

Because prevention is a much less costly strategy.

To understand the unmet need as it relates to pavement, we have to kind of understand what our funding sources are.

And you guys are very familiar with these as these are an element of our annual CIP, but we have three funding sources that we primarily rely on as it relates to pavement and road rehabilitation.

And that's measure X, which is a local sales tax, Senate Bill One, which is a state gas revenue tax.

And then I've included our general fund maintenance of effort allocation here as well.

Because in order to remain eligible for over a million dollars in Measure X and Senate Bill One funding, we have to meet our annual maintenance of effort requirement.

And the maintenance of effort requirement is a minimum level of general fund expenditures on streets and roads.

The city historically has allocated $500,000 towards projects to meet that maintenance of effort requirement annually.

And that's why you'll see in the next slide, I'm considering this contribution as fund because it really ensures that we continue to receive these other external funding sources, and it shows a commitment to consistent to consistency as it relates to meeting that maintenance of effort and putting some general fund money towards streets.

So attachment six has this slide as well.

Um but essentially it shows the identified need at the top, our identified and funding sources and the estimated amounts that we're anticipating to receive.

These are conservative estimates, the actuals will differ.

Um then the total at the bottom shows the unmet need.

And what you'll see the takeaways are that Mall Measure X and SB1 provide us a substantial amount of support as it relates to funding pavement projects.

It's definitely not enough to achieve and sustain a PCI of 70, which is our target goal, or to fully address the existing backlog of pavement repairs.

The PNP identifies 24 million dollars of total need over 10 years.

And when we look at our available funding and our estimates, we have 3.6 million dollars of unfunded pavement projects over the next five years and 7 million unfunded over the next 10 years.

So our pavement network is improving and we're putting investments towards it, but long-term sustainability does require additional investment.

And this is just some examples of some roads currently that are not in the best condition.

Pine Avenue, Forest Avenue.

There's several, um, but just a visual.

So now we're going to move to facilities.

So quick kind of system overviews that relates to our facilities portfolio.

We own and maintain over 18 facilities, everything from the building we're sitting in today to leased facilities like the golf course, all differ in age and purpose, but they all support core city services and functions.

And with so many critical facilities providing everything from public safety and public congregations, places like our library, it's essential that we understand the long-term needs holistically and ensure that these facilities remain safe and accessible to people.

So with that, um, in 2024, we started a facility conditions assessment process.

So we started with five facilities, um, City Hall, Police Department, Youth Center, public works, and the fire station.

And that gave us some really robust and great information.

We brought that to council.

We had a conversation about kind of needs, but it was limited because we only had data on five facilities.

The city owns several more.

So in 2025, we allocated some additional funding to assess 10 additional facility facilities, giving us almost near complete coverage of all of the city-owned buildings.

So these assessments really provide a strong set of data for smart and long-term financial planning.

And this is really the first time in my tenure with the city that we've had such comprehensive data driven information as it relates to facilities, and it does really help us in the long term trying to understand what it is that we need to address and in what timeline.

But I do want to note that not all of our facilities have that standard facility condition assessment.

Some facilities have specialized functions or had prior studies that were completed separately.

Some examples are on the screen, but Chautauqua Hall had its own building assessment done in 2024 by WJE, local water project, had a business plan, which provides some estimates on replacement for equipment.

Point Pinos Lighthouse had a preservation study done in 2009 that provided some information on long-term maintenance.

But where available, we've used the data from these alternative studies to incorporate into the overall needs as it relates to facilities, but it's not exactly the same data.

It doesn't plug in the exact same way as the 15 facilities that had a facility condition assessment performed.

So a little bit about our facility data, much in the way that the pavement management program gives us a PCI, like a ranking of the pavement condition, the facilities conditions assessment gives us an FCI, a facility condition index rating that measures the condition of a building.

So the lower the FCI, the better condition, the higher the FCI, the worse.

And you can see here kind of the gradient.

Zero to five percent is a very well-maintained facility, five to ten percent subject to wear and tear, but still serviceable and functioning, 10 to 30 percent, hard or long-term wear, and 30% and above, it's reaching its end of its useful life.

So where we stand today, only one of our facilities has an FCI greater than five.

And that means most of our facilities are well maintained on average, right?

There might be specific elements within a facility that need to be updated, but on in general, the facilities are well maintained.

Um, but again, all of them have near-term maintenance needs and elements that do need to be addressed.

If maintenance items are deferred, the FCAs give us some good insights into what that looks like in terms of deterioration of our buildings.

So in five years, almost 23% of the assessed facilities would reach that next stage of deterioration where they're classified as aging, and that would be in the 10 to 30% FCI in the next 10 years.

Uh 60% of the facilities would be within that aging range, and one would be kind of in the end of its life category.

So it does show that it's really essential that we continue to invest and regularly into the facilities, or they do start to age rapidly.

So this brings us to the identified facility need.

So our facility conditions assessments have shown us that the identified need is 7.5 million over the next five fiscal years and 14 million over the next 10 fiscal years.

And again, attachment six has a much greater breakdown where it actually shows you each facility and the amount that's needed year over year.

But there's not sufficient space on the slide for that.

So we get this summary here.

And here are just some pictures of some of the identified immediate needs.

Each report shows immediate needs, things that should be addressed in the very, very near term.

And here are just some photos of the things that they've identified.

And these are from across our different facilities.

So we've got some pictures from the public works yard, the roof needs to be addressed, the flooring, there's some items for the youth center, staircase, city hall, kind of water intrusion on the deck.

Um, down in the bottom right, this is an image from our cemetery replacement of heaters are needed.

So it really spans the gamut in terms of types of facility projects and as well as the facilities that need um addressing now.

So, in terms of we know the needs, we know what projects need to be done year over year, but where is the funding gap and what is the unmet need?

Um, when it comes to facilities, it's a lot more straightforward.

There is no dedicated funding source for general facility improvements.

And so, as a result, most of the major facility needs remain on kind of in the unfunded category.

Um, one exception is we've extracted the Chautauqua Hall improvements because those have been those will be funded through generous community donations that have been obtained from the Friends of Chautauqua Hall.

Um so that $900,000 has not been included as an unmet need, but the rest, the rest have been.

So in total, the unfunded facility needs over the next five years is $6.6 million.

Over the next 10 years, 13.8 million.

And here's just a quick summary of that in graph form.

This brings me towards the end of my presentation.

And really the key takeaway here is that we have some unfunded needs.

You'll see 11.7 million in the five years, 9.5 in the subsequent five years and 20.6 million over the 10 year term.

And this is for all of the facility um infrastructure categories that we do have data.

So the first steps towards understanding and fully understanding our learning long-term infrastructure needs has happened, right?

We've taken a look at the data.

We know what data we have, we know what data we don't.

This is really the first step in a longer process.

The data gaps do remain, and those still need to be evaluated and addressed.

So that is something we plan to work towards in the future.

But the data we do have does provide a solid foundation for identifying current need and funding gaps, such as what we've presented here tonight.

Um and today's offer, today's analysis really offers a baseline that will expand as we collect more data and fill those gaps.

But that really means that the total need and the funding requirements, once we get that data will continue to grow.

But this gives us a clearer path forward for maintaining pavement and facilities, because those are two areas where we have very strong data.

And I just want to quickly note some next steps.

On November 19th, staff will return to council with an update on the status of the general fund as a whole.

Um and what we've shared today represents kind of a separate challenge, one that extends beyond what the general fund alone can address.

So this will require some additional solutions, but we did want to bring forward to you the data that we do have now and kind of show you the progress on the five-year CIP.

And with that, uh Dan and I are happy to answer any questions.

Um, first of all, Mr.

Mayor, I want to recognize what uh deputy manager Joyce Halby put into that.

You know, she put that together in a few weeks, and that was a lot of great information.

So thank you, Joyce, for for all of it.

I'm sure Dan was one of the key knowledge people behind all that as well.

Um, but I I think it's important to just kind of take a quick stop and say that it is really responsible to include this in your business, um, your your goals for this year.

This is one of those those stock and trade type things that is good for every city to have, so you know the truth of what is in the future.

But you know, most of these issues are not short-term things.

These weren't created last year.

These have been these are things that we've deferred maintenance over 30, 40 years in some cases, and sometimes longer.

So this is really about how do we catch up where we can and then create a smooth model going forward.

So for the fiscal health of the city in the future.

So that's really the goal in all this.

And there is a real difference, and we're gonna talk about as Joyce mentioned on the 19th, get back to her operating budget, how we're looking this year, how we closed last year.

But this is capital and capital is much you'll see much larger numbers than we typically look at it on an annual basis on our operating budget.

So this is above and beyond where we're able to do all the time in in budget.

So that's what we're we're really trying to highlight.

This is different than than your operating.

So that's it.

Thanks.

Thank you so much.

That was a really great presentation.

We really appreciate it.

And we'll have an opportunity to come back and follow up on some things.

But at this time, I'm just gonna uh let the public speak if they would wish to make any public comment here in the chambers or online.

Please let us know now, and then we will continue the discussion.

One person in the chambers coming forward, so take that first.

Go ahead, guys.

Mayor and city council, thank you for letting me speak.

My name is Andy Kubik.

I'm a resident.

I'm speaking as a resident.

Um, I want to thank staff for the presentation.

Uh the good news is we got a presentation.

The bad news is we can need to spend a lot of money.

Uh I I guess I'm kind of confused.

Uh, this has been going on for many, many years.

We have pretty much the same staff except for a few people, and we still have the same problems.

Uh some of the council here has been on this council, and they've made uh decisions over the years prior to this.

And I just wish we had taken care of these some of these items ahead of time.

And hopefully on the 19th or sometime in the future, we're here, we'll hear how we're going to get faster, better, and cheaper.

How are we going to get more efficient?

Uh this seems like we're going to try to get more money from the residents in the presentation with looking at the uh 20 million dollars and everything.

Uh, I mean, for the roads, for example, I've been asking that the roads be funded for the last five years, six years.

And up to this point, other than the original presentation, I don't remember another presentation made to council or council asking the questions can we spend more than a 1.4, 1.6 million dollars, even though we were told in the presentation that it should be 2.6 million originally.

And staff never really gave the council the option to do that kind of information when the budget was approved.

No count, no questions were asked at that time, also.

So uh I think we all need to get more efficient.

Uh I just got my uh street slurry sealed.

First time in 20 years that I had any work done on my street.

And I had grass growing up in a in a in a street.

So other people also, you know, I'm glad that we're starting to do this.

I just wish we had done it more.

I looked at the budget just quickly before this.

And um the examples I'm saying that we should do things more efficiently and quicker is that we'll talked about the uh fire station repair.

I believe in the budget we said we're gonna spend a thousand a hundred thousand dollars for this in the budget in that was approved in July.

When it came to council, it's gonna cost 150,000.

So we had a funding increase, a cost increase of 50 percent, just from the time that the original budget was presented to when it time to get to you.

We need to do things more efficiently and to take care of our city.

Thank you very much.

Hello everyone, Vince Tumanello, long time Pacific Grove resident, been attending meetings here for over 30 years.

More at some administrations and less at others where I had more confidence.

Okay, I like what Mr.

Kubica just had to say.

He addressed it from one point.

I'm not going to repeat everything or anything, hopefully, that he said, but what I want to say is I'm a little stunned over all these 30 years of attending meetings.

I don't remember anything like this being presented in this format of a meeting or by a council on their regular agenda.

So it's a little bit of a surprise and not a very happy one.

Being a homeowner, I know what goes into maintaining a home and the property around home, you know, painting, plumbing, carpentry, uh, checking for termites, so on and so forth.

And as a homeowner over the years, I've had to plan priorities based upon my ability to pay.

Over the past, I'm disappointed in that 30 years.

I haven't heard anyone saying, listen, we got to put a lot more money aside because somewhere down the line, I'm gonna need to paint my house.

I'm gonna need to fix some pipes as a homeowner.

That's what I would be saying.

So I I ran a good budget.

I ran my house like a business.

I had money aside when time came to get a six thousand dollar paint job or a thirty thousand dollar roof.

I was in a position to do that without having to look for extraneous funds from neighbors or in your case, taxpayers.

I'm a little concerned what's going to be involved here, because I don't think you laid any money aside for this.

Sure, you have some money in the general fund and probably some maintenance money, but you've always been very generous in spending money on operations, on trips, on salaries, on benefits.

And maybe this is the time, like a business, we need to be a little more frugal, a little tougher when it comes to negotiating with the unions, a little tougher when it comes to prioritizing what needs to be done.

Maybe we need some better bids and some better contracts.

That's all I want to say.

As a resident, I'm very disappointed to see how few people even bother to show up for this.

You know, the people in Pacific Grove, I don't know what goes on here.

They don't most of them, as you can see, don't pay any attention to what the council is doing.

Or in my situation, what I'm speaking about is what preparation this council, considering the members who have been here for more than a year, as well as former councils.

You know, they were very generous in 2002 of increasing the benefits for the pensions, the time of retirement dropped from 55 to 50, from 60 to 55.

They increased the stipends and so forth.

You know, a lot of that, if it wasn't done that way, you'd be in a better position to finance.

I don't know how you feel about how you're gonna raise the money to get this all done, but it's gonna be shocking to me.

And please don't come to us for more taxes.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Mayor and council, I would call that a thoroughly sobering report.

And I believe that we are finally getting it because the accounting, you know, started this year also with get implementing a five-year rather than just little two-year plans that somehow.

I mean, everything those two speakers said before me is absolutely true.

And we are old timers here and have watched administrations come and go.

And we've certainly watched staff come and go.

And we haven't been well served.

And the raises still keep coming.

And the reserves, quote unquote, have already been dipped into that a previous administration took great care to sit on and and use.

I mean, wait to use because we knew and now it's getting spent.

Okay, but I don't think the priority priorities have been there.

And I am saying there has been no fiscal responsibility in Pacific Grove.

It's just been give more and more and more, and somehow the taxpayers are gonna pay for it.

Well, this taxpayer can't anymore, just can't.

And I think you need to recognize that for more and more people, and certainly during this economy right now.

So it's a very, very sobering report.

And I hope the mayor and the council takes note of that.

Thank you.

We do not have any more online public comment.

All right, thank you very much.

Go ahead and close public comment on this item, bring it back to the council for questions on the report and overall discussion of the report and the implications thereof.

Uh anyone like to I'll I'll just start off by saying I think it's a step in the right direction to daylight the information to everybody so that we all understand what it is we're up against, and that I think that should be probably be viewed positively, then my opinion.

But um, you know, in previous years we did there are areas that we like that I saw on here that we didn't tackle, and I think um one thing we did do was like the streets, we did increase our spending on the streets to get uh PCI up, and it is up from what it was, if I remember correctly.

I don't have the exact figures, but we started this effort probably I'd say five years ago, six years ago, something like that, and we started spending more on the roads to get the number up, and now the number is in a medium level, not at a low level, wanting to be at a better higher level.

So um, I think in order to address this, it's gonna take a lot of uh creativity um on fundraising on grants on a multitude of different levels, and uh the 11.7 and that's just the beginning.

It is a lot to take in 11.7 over five years.

That's just the beginning that we don't have numbers for a number of those areas.

So, what else is gonna be there behind the curtain for another couple million here and a couple million there?

And the bottom line is I think this problem is not specific to Pacific Grove.

Um, I would say this is a problem probably faced by most of the country as far as old infrastructure.

Um, you know, not to get too much into a uh lecture, but it's kind of coming off the war, the post-war years, the boom, the American American primacy and the 60s, and the way that the world was, we had a lot of money to push to put into these things, and now the as the years have gone by, that's become more and more difficult.

Costs have risen, inflation, and so now here we are.

So we're I I have a lot of faith though in this group.

I have a lot of faith in uh in the staff that we can tackle this problem, and we're gonna we're gonna give it our best shot, and we're gonna do what's right for the community.

So I'll just leave it there for now.

But those are my initial thoughts about it.

Yes, thanks, Mayor.

Yeah, and and I I appreciate that um when we started council last year, that we all said that we think it's really important to get a picture so we know where we stand.

So I'm I'm happy that we're moving in this direction.

We have um kind of the the capacity now to to really look at the big picture because it's it's a lot harder when you're looking at just one thing to really understand the big picture, and we need to understand the big picture to understand what to tackle first, and so I really appreciate that.

We set that as one of our goals.

We're working on where can we focus like that's one of our major priorities here.

We've all stated is really focusing on the things that will cost us money more money down the road um by deferring them than taking care of them now, even if it seems to cost more money now, and council had actually done that with the fire truck as well, paying for the fire truck, so we're not having to spend all that money on interest, for example.

It looked like a big hit at the time, but with the savings that we recognize, we can then use that funding for other projects.

So I appreciate that we have accounted for the fact for the studies that we need that we don't have yet, because I think that will make the full picture more robust.

And I think that'll better let us do more of what we've already been doing, where we look at before we do a road, we're gonna look at the sewer.

So any way where we can look at where multiple different areas can be addressed with a single project.

Um, in a way, that's what we're doing over by the library and the the new hotel as well.

We need to put in the sidewalks, we need to put in the ADA ramps, and we're gonna do the whole street at the same time because it's much more cost effective to do it that way.

If there's sewer work, I don't remember if we did or if it didn't need it.

So what I'm saying is we're looking, we're we're taking a much more big picture approach so we can be more effective, more efficient, and and most important, more fiscally responsible.

And it's one of those things where when you don't have a big budget, it's easy to get caught in.

We are just keeping up with what we can afford to do.

So I really appreciate that.

We're putting a big focus on planning ahead, knowing what we need to do, so then we can make those important decisions.

So I really appreciate staff for putting this all together.

Council for making this a priority so that we got the studies on the facilities to kind of add to the knowledge about the pavement.

Um, so I think we're really on a path in the right direction for doing exactly what the feedback says, you know, the residents want, and rightfully so.

So I'm I'm I'm really glad that we're now doing that.

So um yeah, so I think that covers what I have for right now.

Thanks.

Thanks a lot.

Uh Councilman Walkingstick.

Thank you, Your Honor.

Um first I want to acknowledge um everyone's concern with the report.

Uh Vinny had actually brought up this is the first time he had seen a report like this in 30 years.

And in the 30 years he's been attending.

Um, there's a reason for that, and I'll get to it.

Um, and and he wasn't happy.

And I heard uh uh Inga referred to it as sobering.

Um, these aren't fun numbers to look at, uh, but they're necessary numbers to look at.

We we have to look at this.

We have to project this forward.

And and it is a hard discussion.

It's a hard talk, but uh running the city like you would run a business so that we can stay solvent, so that we can stay responsible to uh uh to the citizens that we serve.

Uh this is just our first step.

It's a necessary step, it's been called sobering, uncomfortable.

But first you identify your costs, you identify your current revenues, you conduct a gap analysis on on what's your shortfall there.

From there, you identify your potential revenue sources, and you identify your potential uh cost savings.

So we're we're in step one in a multi-step process that's gonna help us all get on a better uh uh on a better footing and a more responsible long-term footing.

Um, and once we're through this process, I know that we're gonna feel a lot better knowing that we're within a budget.

We understand what our budgetary constraints are, we understand what our revenue sources are, we understand where our opportunities for savings are, and and we're running the city a lot better.

There may have been some short-term view on previous budgets and on uh yeah, when you're looking at just a one or two uh two-year uh plan, um, yeah, that's that's not forward looking, but that's not what the city council is doing either.

We're we're trying to take these hard steps that are necessary and run the uh uh the city in a better way.

That goes back to the goal that we all we all people in this room discussed for increasing efficiency and fiscal responsibility with the city, and that's what this meeting has been about.

And thank you, Joyce.

You did a wonderful job, and thank you, Dan, for uh for the support on this.

Um, what I'm looking for from here is uh identifying some some long-term metrics within here.

I see that you're doing a good job of identifying over the next 10 years and many areas what the year by year costs will be for specific individual, what that would be the accumulation of all the individual CIPs of that year.

Um, what I'm looking for is a metric looking forward kind of decade after decade, so that that we can project out a little further if that information is is if it's possible to get that.

You know, I'm not putting it on you 100%, but if during the course of our studies we can start getting those metrics, that would be extremely helpful.

Um, looking at what our average cost per year for uh our our identified areas of transportation, sewers, stormwater facilities, parks and recreation.

And if we can identify a rate of increase, all the better.

But uh, but that would be like in my dream scenario, we would have that to work with.

We could use that with uh uh uh coupling that with identifying revenue sources where we can then account for those average costs over time, and we can have a solid plan with some solid footing.

Uh like I said, that's my dream.

I hope we can get there.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you, uh Mayor Pretonio.

Um did it all on whatever uh everybody else said uh thank you very much, uh Joyce and uh Dan for putting this all together, especially your presentation.

Uh Mrs.

Ls Elby.

Um some of these prices, I I've seen this now for several years.

I mean, some of the totals and uh uh mayor discussed about how some other cities are going through the same process.

Uh I heard it uh at the Long Beach conference I was at and listened to the other cities, but we're not talking about other cities.

We're talking about Pacific Growth.

And that's important to keep in mind.

And um I look at these figures, and it's great that we've done this 10 year uh scenario.

I don't think we've ever done that before, if I recall from the years, it's usually five years, but 10 years out is is unbelievable.

I mean, how much is needed?

And um I know I personally don't have that in my personal checking account.

So uh, but uh I I understand, like uh the citizen mentioned about you have to maintain your home.

I understand that, but we're not talking about uh I understand the home situation, but we're talking about a huge budget dealing with the city of Pacific Grove, and I trust our staff where we're gonna go towards uh in the future.

Um I was just gonna mention that um there's a couple of things you already answered my question about the sewers versus the streets.

I understand that.

I think uh I I've been proponent on capital improvement.

I wanted to compliment the staff.

Just uh I'll use an example, Del Monty Park, uh David Avenue, the sidewalks have been put in for all the students coming out of the charter schools.

That's just an example.

And that I remember that was nothing five, six years ago.

And you guys have done a great job.

That's just an example.

And um, but otherwise, uh it's I think one of the which uh councilman uh walking stock stick uh mentioned about sobering, it is sobering.

There's no doubt about it.

And uh, but it is what it is, and this is what we have to deal with.

Councilmember Garfield.

Thank you, Your Honor.

Um, I want to follow up on on Councilmember Vice Mayor's um Emilio's point that it's easy to forget what has been put in place and that what what we can count on.

We walk on the sidewalks, we drive on the streets, chipping away at things.

And I just want to look backwards a little bit and remind that the reason we have a reserve at all to dip into is because previous councils created a reserve and yeah, didn't spend money on stuff that needed to be spent on so that there would be a reserve.

So that's one accomplishment that keeps us from uh running right over the cliff.

Um we've previous councils have looked hard for revenue sources that do not depend on taxing the citizens.

The Kimpton Hotel.

People on council have looked very hard at trying to get um the ATC hotel going so that there would be revenue from visitors instead of from residents.

Even the sales tax is meant to capture um funding from our visitors who really do more shopping than I think our residents do.

Um I'd also look at going forward, we need to continue to look at how we get the visitors who come and use our facilities to help pay for that.

Um, and I'm a big fan of paid parking for that reason.

Um, and I think we'll we'll need all of us will need to continue to look for things that share the load without uh burdening um our citizens who are also paying pretty well.

Um and then my final comment is is this was really a revealing point about all the facilities that we have, all the buildings that we have, and I think you can divide them into three categories.

We have buildings that serve core functions, City Hall, corporate yard.

Then a little bit further along, we have buildings that provide housing for discretionary city programs, and then we have buildings that we own and support that aren't for city programs.

We rent them out to people for very for no money.

And maybe down the line we need to start looking at that.

Is this entirely our responsibility to house and repair and fix buildings that aren't in our fundamental core mandate?

Um so that's my commentary on this wonderful um education that you've given us, and I I truly appreciate it and look forward to seeing as this how this evolves over time.

So thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember.

Yeah, thank you.

And thank you for the report.

I know that we've talked a lot, and I uh, you know, think that the people that ran in the last election talked a lot about infrastructure because it's a problem.

We all live here, we all drive the streets, we all know that it's a problem.

And thank you, uh Mr.

Mogenson, for acknowledging that this is not something that was the last council's fault or the council before, or the council before.

This is uh a neglect that's been going on for 30 years or more.

The evidence of that is Chautauqua Hall.

Um but I think what makes me feel better and able to sleep at night is that this council is committed to fixing the problem.

Let's put a stopgap in in place and then figure out what are we going to do financially.

Yes, we've dipped into the reserves because we've made the decision in managing money to hold on to money at 3% or spend it and avoid a 25-30 percent year over year in construction and infrastructure costs, makes more sense than to hold on and hoard money when you're not making any money on that money.

So I think cash management is really important in this situation, and I would say that you know, I always love it when people say we need to run it like a business.

Well, city government is not a business, it is a service that's here to serve uh the citizens.

And so if this was run like a business and we were faced with what we're faced with, here's what we would do.

We would start cutting services, we would start cutting fire and police.

We would uh start selling city assets like Chautauqua Hall.

That's what we would do.

That's not what we're gonna do.

We're gonna figure out a way to get ourselves out of the school, and it's gonna take all of us working together to do it, but I think that we need to stop blaming everybody because we are here, it is what it is.

We can't go back 30 years ago and tell the city council, hey, in 30 years, you're gonna have a wicked infrastructure problem that you're not gonna be able to fix.

It doesn't do anybody any good.

We need to look forward in a positive way and figure out how we're gonna do that.

I don't know what the revenue streams are gonna be, but I agree with current council member Garfield that you know you have two choices.

You either cut services or you raise revenue.

I would prefer to raise revenue.

That's just my feeling.

Um but I appreciate this.

This is exactly what we asked for.

We wanted to know what we were doing.

Instead of kicking the can down the road, this council is committed to fixing it.

And I uh can say to the other six up here, I really appreciate that about all of you that we're we're willing to put in the work to do what needs to be done to get the city uh back on track.

And I, you know, I'm super proud of it.

And I know it's gonna hurt, I know it's gonna be unattractive, but you know, I think it's also what's needed.

And so let's I think let's move forward in the best way that we can uh to address this.

And by the way, get enough money to take advantage of every one of those matching grants or other funding that we can, because I think that's where that difference is going to be when we talk about funding.

We can't forget that you know, if we can have a matching fund, we can fix 1.8 million dollars worth of problems tomorrow.

That's what's going to be critically important moving forward, is making sure that we take advantage of every single opportunity for funding that's out there.

So again, thank you to the staff.

I appreciate uh what you've gone through to do this.

It's not easy, and uh, but we're we'll get through it.

Thank you, Councilmember Paduri.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh I wouldn't echo all the comments uh over here and and I'll I'll summarize this, but I did have some questions too.

I appreciate uh you putting everything together here.

Um I drive down Forest Avenue all the time.

Um so as I I mean I've I've driven it so much, I mean, for the past few weeks.

Well, if you were to put a number on, what is the PCI on Forest Avenue?

I don't have that number on top of our head.

Okay, Paduri, but okay.

I can give you some explanations on that if you would like.

Yeah, if you can, please.

Sure.

So CalAM Water has been has completed their water project, and I'm talking about between Sunset and Cinex Avenue for a greater vicinity.

And that's part of our Hill Crest Sewer Project, and our sewer line project has mainlines that run through people's backyards adjacent to Hillcrest and Forest Avenue.

And we're evaluating taking those sewer lines and possibly moving them up onto Forest Avenue.

If we can make the gravity flows work, I don't want to have to have all those properties put pump stations in and then pump up into Forest Avenue.

But my main priority right now on the sewer system is to have our engineering firms evaluate the sewer mainline that's running through Pebble Beach and into Spanish Bay Golf Course.

And we've been putting a tremendous amount of time and effort into that project because Spanish Bay is closing in March of 2026.

So we have a limited window to try to complete that work while that golf course is closed.

So I know there's gonna be some disruption and maybe some aggravation about how Forest Avenue looks, but I don't want to pave it or do a treatment until I know what I'm gonna do with the sewer system in that roadway.

And that's coming very soon.

At least we'll know a plan.

Um we're at 95% plan set for the Pebble Beach, and then we're gonna start shifting back over to that project.

We've been working with CalAM water to address make sure we do a dig once type mentality.

So hence why Forest Avenue is in the state, it's in.

We will address it.

It's on our known list to pave.

I just need to figure out what I'm doing with the sewer system first.

Dig once.

Okay, thank you.

I and I think uh it's not just the council, I think the community needs to hear this uh because uh it's not like suddenly um Forest Avenue looks bad, suddenly the PCI has gone down.

It's because of instances that happen behind the scenes or under the ground that that causes these things to happen.

So uh just for my edification here, um uh I think you mentioned as soon as something happens, you'll you'll change the model.

So is that the case with Forest Avenue too?

So something happened here, you've changed the model, and so the is this reflective of the Forest Avenue BCI too.

So the model will degrade any of the roads that are deferred that don't receive maintenance automatically.

Okay, and then where we do do maintenance, we are in the database actively saying we applied this treatment on this date, and then it recalculates the PCI based on that and those two factors together, it then recalculates the average network annually.

Okay, okay.

I think I got that.

Um the um the other thing too is just on going back to Forest Avenue is uh there are partners that we work with, um, like in this case look like Calam.

Uh some cases PGE uh and they do digging.

Um and and so my question there is I know they kind of repave to the extent that they can, but then is it like a city kind of like matter to really surface it properly?

I mean, is I've I've I've seen work done on my street, for instance, and it's not exactly up to par as it was before.

What happens there?

Councilmember Paduri, so it depends on the level of scope.

If they're gonna come in and do dig up a whole travel lane, then we're gonna make them do some type of slurry seal, or we're gonna um evaluate the plan set to make sure that the treatment to reestablish the trench line is appropriate.

Um it's a case by case scenario.

We're aware of your referencing of CVU.

We're aware of that and what PGE's done.

We knew we had our project on that roadway too, associated with David Avenue.

So we're getting that underground infrastructure with all the utilities done on a roadway like that, and then that would be a high candidate for like a slurry seal in a year or two, or possibly a repave as we look at our uh pavement index and the list of roadways that it's um spitting out for lack of a better term and telling us to do.

We look at that and we say, oh, well, this road has had PGE come in and do all the gas line upgrades and laterals.

We've done the sewer line laterals.

Calam's evaluating it says their infrastructure is good.

This is a great candidate to move forward with.

So even though the PCI says, oh, go pave this roadway in year 2026, that roadway is not always a candidate.

And that's something that we have to evaluate as we look at the entire network and make sure all the utilities are completed.

Okay, and that makes sense.

Yeah, it does.

And I I think I just want to clarify a couple of points here, which is um if a road has say a PCI of like say 75, and then PGE comes and works on it, and now the PCI is now 65.

It is not PGE's responsibility to bring it back to 75.

It is the city's responsibility, correct?

Yes and no.

Um I think that would be a policy decision.

I'm constantly being asked by these utility companies if there's moratoriums on the roads or um what the policies are set forth.

Um, we really don't have those policies set forth that if like extensive amount of digging was to be done, then they have to maintain or bring it back up to that PCI.

But with that being said, also is for example, PGE's coming in and replacing gas lines that are from like the 30s and 40s.

So I don't want to not let them do that work because I'm gonna say, no, but now you have to come in and spend 300,000 to repave the entire roadway network, because we want them to also upgrade their infrastructure, right?

I mean, that's part of our utility delivering that the city needs to manage through our encroachment permit process and the utility process also.

Right.

And what I'm getting at is really at the end of the day, like the city is gonna be on technically on the hook for making sure all the roads are are in proper form.

So I just wanted that to just get clarified.

Um, the other thing uh I wanted to ask here is um obviously put in the tables here.

So these are so let's say you have 50 million dollars in like 10 years that we need to spend.

It's not the end of the road there, right?

I mean, this is an ongoing process.

I mean, you gotta like spend 50 million in 10 years after that, too.

So effectively, we got to think about how much money we need to allocate or pool or come up with every given year to maintain the status quo moving forward.

So this is not by any means like only a 10-year effort.

So this is a continuous effort.

Uh and then the um the question I had is uh we we did discuss as a separate item some projects like uh the peer repair project.

Um so is the peer repair project part of this?

Is it separate?

Yes, the peer repair project is included under the um parks and recreation category, and it has a 1.45 million dollar price tag, it's deemed unfunded because we don't necessarily have any funding sources, but you know, as grants come around, we're still looking and um trying to find funding sources, but with that requires a match.

So until something is actually secured, it it's reflected as unfunded.

Okay, thank you.

Uh, and then uh it at least in my first read of this, it doesn't uh appear that we have accounted for future price increases, right?

This is the price as it stands right now.

Five years from now, the price could potentially go up for it.

But this is what we're seeing in construction generally.

Is that fair to say that cost of uh pricing needs to be factored in as we move along?

So the cool thing about these databases is it does have like a three percent inflation that's factored into each year, but yes, that might change the costs, might be more.

These are estimates they serve as a baseline, but the reality might change as you know we go to do the work in that given year.

Okay, well, thank you.

So I just want to summarize this.

Is uh I know it looks like we're presenting a bleak picture, but to be honest, I I have seen accomplishments happen over the past years, and I think in the future when we bring these items, we should also not necessarily say we're not doing anything.

We we need to show what our accomplishments are too.

Uh the the slurry seal kind of thing is an ongoing item.

We spend a lot of money on it.

So we need to uh kind of like contrast or at least put something in there to say, yes, there is X amount of work to be done, but we've also done certain work and look what we've done, so that we don't get this.

I would say just the general commentary should not be we've not done anything.

So I just wanted to just have that as a suggestion.

Um I I like the paid parking suggestion.

So it's like the one of those things where I think we could together, along with the staff, if we can come up with certain certain unique ways to um kind of bring up the revenue, see what kind of other revenue streams are there to to kind of tackle these.

Uh and then my um final comment is uh I I do think uh I know like a lot, a lot of folks missed the point when we actually defer actual projects, and I think a key project here is the ATC project.

And if the ATC project had actually come into fruition by now, we would be generating revenue, and that would be in the order of millions, and we could have tackled some of this.

So when we think about like massive projects that we need to bless, we need to keep that in mind is that this is lost opportunity when we're not blessing something and deferring it.

But that's my comments.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Um I think that was pretty great.

Uh commentary all around and on a lot of great ideas.

Um I really like the discussion of you know, saving money in the long run by spending money now without having the 25% interest.

I like um working working on possible parking revenues.

I like uh grants and um things of that nature and trying to get these those things going.

But overall, I think my takeaway is that that we're really committed to this and we're we're in it.

We're gonna roll up our sleeves and and tackle it.

So if anything else, I think okay, go ahead and council.

Thanks.

I know I'd want to wrap back around later, but um, didn't want to say too much initially.

Um and part of it comes back to, and I was gonna come back around to the lovers point, Pierre.

So that's a good one.

I think that's a really good example of I don't want our lack of available funding to prevent us from pursuing the grants.

So I'd like to see us work into the budget, allowing for what we would anticipate our share would be into the budget, so that when those opportunities come around, we can jump on them and we don't miss them because we haven't put the money aside to match.

So I I and so that gets back to my I think earlier point and and other points I've heard too.

Look at the areas where we can get funding, address those in a way those sort of become the low-hanging fruit, um, in the sense that they're more attainable because we can have somebody else help us pay for them.

Um, because yeah, obviously we don't want to tax the citizens any more than we have to.

So uh and there is a cost.

Tourism is great because it brings in dollars, but it also costs money for us to maintain the infrastructures that the tourists use.

And so finding a balance uh of uh of helping them pay the cost of that.

We do get it obviously through TOT, but not everyone who comes through does stay at a hotel.

So finding ways to help better generate um ways to make sure we're maintaining so that we continue to draw the citizen, uh, the tourists, excuse me, while not further taxing the citizens.

I think that's really important.

And you had mentioned something, Joyce, about um so there's the part of the money that we spend currently to make sure we're kind of just keeping that status quo level of PCI.

Um, there's the amount that we need to invest in to get ahead of that.

And and so I guess the point I was going to make is we don't want to totally defer um prevention while we're focusing on rehabilitation.

So I think it'll be important when we're looking at budgeting to make sure we're really maintaining that preventive aspect on so I guess what I'm saying is we're kind of doing the maintenance aspect to make sure streets don't degrade.

We don't want to lose that while we're investing the ones that are in a worse shape.

So we want to make sure we're not letting those degrade in the process, which of course will mean needing to put more money into and and the challenges we all know is finding out where that money will come from.

But I I feel like too, the more as uh as a council body and as a staff body and as a citizen body, if if it if the citizens have ideas or or know of uh ways that might be beneficial to find answers, the more we come with the mindset of finding these solutions, the more the solutions start to show up.

So I really appreciate that everyone seems to be on the same page.

It's almost like we've come to a point now where maybe things have fallen in alignment where we can move forward on this.

And in the past, it very easily could have been.

There were other investments that had to be made that didn't give us this flexibility.

So I think that we're in a good place to start taking taking on the process of getting our streets in good order, getting our facilities in good order.

And now that we have this assessment and the big picture, we can do that in a responsible way.

So we're really investing in the smartest places to invest so we get the most resources from our money.

So all right, thanks.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I think that brings us to the close of the session.

We really appreciate the information and we won't forget all the good things that have been done, the streets, the sidewalks, and the storm water infrastructure that we have been doing the last the this whole decade.

Recording in progress.

I muted.

Okay.

That's probably good.

Okay.

Good evening, everyone.

Welcome.

This is the Pacific Grove City Council special closed session agenda meeting.

Uh we are here November fifth, twenty twenty-five.

It's five thirty PM.

We're in Council Chambers, three hundred fourst Avenue, Pacific Grove, California, and I call this special meeting to order.

Uh may I get approval of this special closed session agenda.

Approval.

Second.

Motion by Amelio, second by Rao.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Hearing none passes unanimously.

We'll have one item tonight on the special agenda.

This is uh the uh Mr.

City Attorney, would you read the item for us?

Yes, it's um public employee appointment government code section five four nine five seven.

The title is city attorney.

Thank you very much, sir.

And we'll go ahead and take public comment on this one item.

If there is any.