Good evening.

On behalf of the governing body, we welcome you to the May 19th, 2026 City Council meeting.

In accordance with chapter 231, public laws of 1975, adequate notice of this meeting was provided by resolution of the municipal council adopted on June 17th, 2025, setting forth the schedule of meetings for the year 2025-2026.

Excuse notice was published and posted on the city.

Please be guided accordingly.

Roll call, please.

Councilman Monk.

Councilman Love.

Present.

Councilwoman Mello.

Present.

Councilman Mayor.

Present.

Councilman Garcia.

Councilwoman Colom Montañez.

President and Council President Sherry.

President, should we up please run?

Heavenly Father, we want to thank you, Lord, for allowing us to meet this evening.

We ask you to please guide us in the decisions that will take place this evening in your beloved name we pray.

Amen.

I pledge advanced to the flag of the United States of America.

As a note to members of the council, there are uh two pieces of correspondence from citizens that uh have been included in your uh materials for this evening.

Uh if you don't have a copy of our agenda, they're available immediately outside uh chambers.

Uh also available to you through the website, the city's website, and then the links of all the information council is received for tonight's meeting from the administration.

We're up to remember four on our agenda tonight, hearing of citizens in accordance with the open public meetings act in Genesis 104-16.

The council is every public meeting for comments from the public.

However, in accordance with NJSA 10 COVID 4-12, nothing in this act shall be construed to limit the discretion of a public body to permit, prohibit, or regulate the act of participation at any meeting.

Therefore, please be advised that the council will not entertain any comments from persons who communicate obscene material, make statements which are considered bias intimidation, in which a person intends to intimidate any individual or group because of race, color, religion, gender, handicap, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, or Max Comments intending to harass or speak any offensive language.

Person who makes the statement will relinquish their allotted five minutes for public discussion.

The council looks for us to comments from members of the public.

We respectfully remind you that if you would like to speak before the council that you share with us your name, and also recognize that we ask that everyone speak for no more than five minutes.

Is there anyone who'd like to adjust the council?

Please sir.

That would be you, Carl.

Thank you.

Um I distributed a sheet of paper, basically says what I said about to say.

Uh, first of all, I want to thank uh police chief uh losman and his department.

So when I spoke here a few weeks ago, the next morning I saw action.

Um safety is one of the two major issues I want to talk about.

Howard Avenue was a broad street.

Uh when I first moved there 30 some years ago, there's a yellow line down the center of the street.

It didn't go anywhere.

Quite frankly, 21 didn't go anywhere.

There wasn't a lot of traffic.

I brought in some speed, uh, I have a radar gun.

I brought in some speed numbers uh last trip.

Cars are flying up and down the street, and worse yet, there's a crosswalk.

Allegedly a crosswalk, uh at spring and howard, school children, parents, mothers with strollers, all have to basically wait for cars rather than the other way around.

It's dangerous.

And uh, I think we need to address that.

Uh I've several um suggestions.

The police cannot be there all the time.

Uh suggestions will include signage, rumble strips, electronic speed signs and see those uh in many, many communities.

Uh sign that tells you how fast you're going, and perhaps um suggests that you're going too fast.

And of course, uh continued enforcement, but again, um Holly is a dangerous street.

There are over 50 children living on the few blocks between park and river road.

I maybe I may have undercounted, actually.

It's just dangerous, I believe also that spring and Howard should be a four-way stop sign.

That's the first issue.

I'm waiting to listen to comments.

Uh the second issue is noise.

Uh, when I moved to to Howard and Quarter Spring and Howard in 1995, 21 didn't go anywhere.

It stops somewhere in the middle of downtown Passaic.

When 21 was extended to reach 20 and 80, it became a major highway.

And the new construction got noise barriers.

The old construction only got a chain link fence, which means myself and my neighbors, we can't sit on our front porch unless we put on headphones.

We can't open our windows to let in some fresh air.

Not a day like today, but it's just the noise of traffic, motorcycles, everything else.

And 21 is all day long.

Even worse during the morning rush hour, and you you live nearby, you know that.

Um morning and evening rush hours and such.

We need to get noise barriers.

I spoke with uh the chief of staff of Congressman Powell's office, who's an old friend from back when Carson is there.

I suggested that it has to come from the bottom up.

So I'd hope that the city could speak up to the county to the state and then to the federal government to get us noise barriers for that old stretch of 21 from route three up to where the new no where the new well fairly new noise barriers are.

Thank you, sir.

Uh just a quick question here from Mr.

Singer.

You said you had met with or spoken with Chief Guzman.

I'm sorry.

You had mentioned you had spoken to Chief Guzman, our police chief.

I I saw him at the end of the previous meeting.

And he was very helpful.

And there were there was a police car out there the next day.

I saw the flash was going, so it must have given somebody a ticket for speeding.

Um coincidentally, we both have degrees from Fairley Dickinson and criminal justice.

Uh I don't know why if you need an 80-year-old rookie.

Um, I'll volunteer as a police.

But uh, we spoke about it, and uh he was very responsive.

Uh on previous occasions he put up the uh trailer with the speed thing, but again, that only is there when he's there or when the police officer is there.

There needs to be some permanent stuff in terms of signage and the other suggestions that I made.

Deputy Chief Gentile, is this something that we can leave to your trusted good hands that you'll speak with uh please chief, and perhaps it was Mr.

Singer and get some further details.

That would be great.

Obviously, Mr.

Singer, this is um uh one of many, many, many priorities not to make it less than it is, it is extremely serious.

It's an extremely serious issue, and we would like to deal with it just as seriously.

Uh, but obviously um some of these things are extraordinarily costly.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Anyone else like to address the council, please?

Council President.

Before the person addresses uh through the council president, I just want to inform you that we recently purchased these new signs that go on poles that actually serve the same purpose as those mobile um speed readers.

We place one on Hamilton and uh one by school number six.

So these signs go up on the actual light poles, and as the cars drive by, it tells you how fast you're going, but also these red and blue lights light up if you go beyond the speed limit.

We've ordered some additional signs that we will be exploring, putting in areas, residential areas like these.

They do serve as a pretty effective deterrent as individuals.

Um, most of us have been conditioned wherever we see red and blue lights go up to uh slow down, but also the indication some people generally don't realize how fast they're going in these areas.

So we did want to share uh obviously through the council to the residents and those watching online that you will be seeing more of those go up as we ordered them through our purchasing.

Thank you.

Currently, there's only one speed limit sign in each direction, one at the foot of River Road for cars going westbound, and one at park for cars going eastbound.

So easy to overlook.

Thank you.

Anyone else uh would like to address the council?

Good evening, Council President.

There's an ordinance on the agenda for tonight.

I'm sorry, your name, please, sir.

The name is Young C Wolf.

Thank you.

There's an ordinance on the agenda for second and final reading for our pilot program.

At the last council meeting, I think it was for a first reading and was pushed off.

So I just want to know if it was not passed at the past last meeting.

Is it due for a final reading or a first reading?

I'm sorry, would which ordinance you're referring to?

For the pilot for Spear Village.

Do you know what ordinance number that is offhand?

Ordinance number two number three, two five two nine twenty-six.

Which which's what I wanted to hear.

So, Mr.

Wolf, it was presented for first reading.

It is now up tonight for second and final reading.

Okay, so it's not like you have to approve it as just a reading.

No, it's if it is if it's uh receives a positive vote, um, it takes effect.

Did it get a positive vote at the last meeting?

For release to for second reading, yes, it did.

Okay.

Ordinances for first reading are usually at the end of our agenda, whereas ordinances for second and final reading are at the beginning of our agenda.

Okay, thank you.

I want to thank the council members at the last meeting.

I was not here, but I want to thank them for um questioning some of the items that were presented, including the pilot program.

I think it's a very intense and complex agreement for a very complex project.

Mr.

Fernandez, the business administrator had mentioned that there is a council member, a former council member on the board on the planning board, whose PEPIF, quote unquote, is parking.

I myself was present on Zoom at the two planning board meetings about two properties on Broadway that Mr.

Fernandez was referencing.

At the first meeting, Mr.

Schwartz asked the presenter, the planner, the arc, the engineer, the architect, he asked, why if this is a brand new project and you're knocking down two houses?

Why do you need a variance for parking?

Why can you build it from scratch with ample parking?

And he was actually quite animated about it.

And they pulled back from requesting vote, and they presented it again two weeks later.

At the next meeting, they added not as Mr.

Fernandez said, three parking spots.

They added two compact parking spots.

So this 22-unit project with 3,500 square feet of commercial space and four storefronts in the middle of a block, not on a corner, received approval because they added two compact parking spots, and nobody asked any questions.

22 apartments, 3,500 square feet on the second floor for offices that do not need parking, and four storefronts that don't need parking.

Received approval with no pushback because instead of asking for a vote, they pushed off two weeks and replaced two compact parking spots in the back of a driveway that has an egress and a deed restriction with the neighbor.

This was an 11,000 square foot property.

And I'm asking, does the council really realize that the planning board are very nice people, but they seriously seem disenfranchised and disinterested in the basic questions.

Thank you.

Yes.

The board members were adamant that they wanted more parking space.

They made the developer come back.

They brought in additional parking spaces to the satisfaction of the board members, and that's why they're there.

And it received the board's approval that it did.

After they came back, it wasn't immediate.

They made them revise the plans, bring in more parking, and it was to their satisfaction.

So it's not as if this was unaddressed.

Correct.

Good.

That's just what I wanted to hear.

Is there anyone else who would like to address the council, please?

Do I have any more time?

Does he have he had one minute left before?

We'll take it for the minute.

Thank you.

The board still had to give a variance for parking.

They had a pro they approach with 17 parking spots.

They needed a minimum of more than 21, but because they chose to do four EV parking spots, they reduced the requirement to 21, and they asked for variance for four, and they came back and they added two compact parking spots.

This project had commercial space, a commercial space by city ordinance does not require parking.

It had office space.

City ordinance does not need parking.

So they clumped together a tremendous amount of usage into 11,000 square foot lot.

Additionally, Mr.

Fernandez mentioned that properties over 10 units need garbage down private garbage collection.

Other projects required it.

This project, the board did not require any garbage private garbage collection.

They let them off the hook, and the city will be paying for the garbage collection from this 22-unit four storefront, 3,500 square foot commercial space.

That is your five minutes, sir.

Um missions are very interesting in local government and in non-local government as well, for that matter, and that is power and resolve is given from a an elected body to an appointed body.

That appointed body is appointed for a reason in the planning board's case to reflect the direction and uh interests of the administration and specifically of the mayor.

Whereas in another board, for example, the zoning board is just saying representing the council.

In all cases, boards are given uh tremendous latitudes in doing what they do, representing the people as they do.

Um, these are all people who have gone through various courses, uh, giving them prolification at least by the states resolve.

Uh that what they're doing is correct, uh, most importantly, legal.

In addition, each one of these boards has an attorney uh that stayed with it throughout to ensure that the board protects itself, the city, and the appointing agents.

Uh whereas I can well understand your concern about this particular case, um, and have no doubt that there's more to learn about this in any other case for that matter.

But the board has its right, and the city is obliged to follow that unless there's something so egregious.

I cannot find something so egregious in this uh position.

It seems to me the um vote was taken.

Um majority of the planning board members voted in favor of it, uh whether for good or for bad, it is within their purview and within their right, and it would be wrong to in any way jeopardize that right and that responsibility, both to them as well as to their appointing agents.

Um, I hear what you had to say.

Uh I appreciate it very much during discussion of the ordinance.

You are certainly allowed as anyone else's to raise additional points if you would like that is up to you.

That is at your pleasure.

Uh, but as far as this council goes, uh there's nothing which appears to be so egregious as to suggest anything, but we move forward.

So anyone else like to address the council seeing no hands was the public portion.

Second, there's a motion there's a second to close public portion.

Councilman Monk, yes, councilman love yes, councilwoman mellow, yes.

Councilman Mayor, yes, councilman Garcia?

Yes, councilman Colomo Tanya?

Yes, and Council President Sheer.

Yes, thank you.

We're up to run number five on our agenda ordinance for second and final reading hearing is required.

Number one, proposed ordinance number 2523-26.

An ordinance amended the east side redevelopment plan for property identified on the official tax map of the city of Passaic is block 1036, lots one and eight corresponding to one market street in the city of Passaic introduced excuse me at the November 14 at the April 14th 2026 council meeting.

Is there a motion, please to open public hearing?

Move it second, roll call, please.

Councilman Monk, yes, councilman love, yes, councilman mayor, yes, councilman Garcia, councilwoman Colombia, yes, council presidential.

Yes, thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

At this time, the council will be deliberating proposed orders number 2523-26.

Is there anyone who would like to address the council on this matter and this matter only?

Thank you, Council President.

I would like to ask in the applications for these in the application for these redevelopment plans.

I'm going to hold you to the ordinance only.

Does the city have any requirements attached to redevelopment?

I seem to recall.

I need you to item out, please, Mr.

Wolf.

We were not encouraging on your time.

Once again, it was the city clerk's fault, Mr.

Wolf.

Thank you.

Does the city have any requirements attached to a development of a sick like this?

For example, I remember seeing somewhere that the city requires a tenants lounge in the buildings, storage in the buildings.

The reason why I'm asking this is because I don't see by the planning board meetings any variances being.

Does the city have any requirements attached to these development plans that require certain amenities and space and allocations for the tenants?

What's again, please, sir?

I'm sorry.

Does the city have any requirements that redevelopers must include in their buildings that are entitled that are under approval for redevelopment?

I'll take that issue on this level, not on a higher level.

And that is specifically, Mr.

Fernandez, on the question regarding this ordinance.

Yes, it does.

Does a developer need a variance if they do not provide those requirements in the building?

Yes.

If there's any deviation from the plan that is of a bulk standard, it could be granted by the planning board.

If it is a use standard, like uh under the municipal land use law, uh 4055-d123456, then it has to come back to this council.

So the D variance is use variance, D2 is uh expansion of the non-conforming use, D3 is conditional use, D4 is floor area ratio, D5 is density, and D6 is height.

If they exceed any of those to the point that it triggers one of those six, it has to come back to this board, this council for an amendment of the plan.

The planning board has no authority to grant that waiver.

But if it's the minimum waivers like setbacks or parking standards or um open space standards, they're allowed to evaluate and uh decide if to their satisfaction the reply from the applicant is sufficient.

Do they need approval?

Do they need a vote if they don't want to uh give tenant lounges and storage?

Do they need a variance for that?

Let me check what the code says on that.

But for example, it says that you have to have at least 10,000 square feet of community space for the for the the individuals.

Let's see.

Um reason I have to is because some have it, some of them have it, some do not.

19.

Uh 40 units or larger should incorporate approximately 10,000 square feet, have a well-the center business center, concierge center, something of that, um, and it should be for the residents only.

So I mean the bedrooms themselves have to have their own closet space for them to be considered bedrooms.

Um there's a whole section on trash and recycling enclosures.

I believe that's uh the business administrator's analysis, Mr.

Wolfe.

If a project did not get does not provide this, does it need the the planning board to vote on a variance or it can get relief before the planning board's vote?

So once this passes, it becomes law, and they can grant waivers specifically to what's on this piece of paper, unless it triggers one of the de variances that we discussed before.

So yes, they would need to get relief from either the council or from the planning board, depending on the type of relief they need.

So the entries, yes, they need to go to either this board or the planning board to get relief.

Storage excuse me, Mr.

Is that effectively what they're doing?

Say that again.

Is that effectively what they're doing tonight?

No, this is uh uh this is the ordinance that sets that guideline that they have to comply with.

So what happens after this is the applicant has to prepare a site plan that goes to the planning board, and because this is a redevelopment, it has to be consistent with this redevelopment plan.

If it's inconsistent, it re would it can extensibly require an amendment from this plan which comes to this governing body, with the exception of design standards, you know, like the parking size, so they they're well within their rights to have compact cars.

If to the board's satisfaction, the applicants' professionals, you know, uh bring a presentation that satisfies that, and within the law, the the boards, and again, this goes for either board, but in this case it's specifically for a planning board.

Um can impose conditions to alleviate the any impact of a variance request.

So there are conditions that can be placed above and beyond this, as long as they're reasonable to ameliorate any negative impact of that possible waiver.

Storage space requirement number 14.

Would that need a vote from the planning board for variance, or is that not under variance?

Anything in this plan requires review and approval from the planning board.

Everything.

So any number you see on the redevelopment plan requires review and approval from the planning board, unless it exceeds the authority of the planning board, which requires a devariance, then it has to come back to the city council for an amendment of the plan.

The planning board doesn't have authority to grant those waivers.

Okay, thank you.

I just want to let the city council know that there are redevelopment plans such as this that are asking for relief from major parts of the redevelopment plan, and they are receiving it.

Thank you.

First, councilman, you'd like to zone.

Thank you, Council President.

This project's pretty big.

What's it?

It's over six acres.

It's a it's a huge site.

Uh the 50% workforce units, chaliotic house allocated to households only 60 to 75% of AMA really speaks to me.

It's pretty cool.

Uh, I just have a few questions on I see a lot about the history of the census and what percentages renter occupied housing unit that's good for parking now.

Is there any do we know what mix of apartment sizes or apartment unit sizes are going to be in this property?

Uh no, because this is the guide.

So until they submit a plan, it's only a concept and an idea.

But what I can tell you is that um, due to the changes in the state of New Jersey's fair housing program, um, specifically the uniform housing affordability controls UH, we've put minimum, which I'm very excited for, minimum unit sizes within it.

So because that passed, we're allowed to do that now.

So there will be no more of those undersized, you know, tiny little apartments for affordable individuals that are much smaller than the rest of the building.

So we're very excited about that.

This is one of the first redevelopment plans that we were able to add it because the law just passed uh you know uh maybe six months ago or so.

So you led me to one of my next questions.

I'll skip to it.

These apartment size are minimum set by the state, or these are yeah.

So we got we we the yes, it's in the state uniform housing affordability controls for affordable housing.

So those are the minimum standards.

Is there any correlation in in the census between the apartment size, not the the amount of bedrooms or you to the parking, or there's no such correlation?

There is no such correlation.

are yeah so so we got we we the yes it's in the state uniform housing affordability controls for affordable housing so those are the minimum standards is there any correlation in in the census between the apartment size not the the amount of bedrooms or you to the parking or there's no such correlation there is no such correlation the census doesn't correlate that the the the census what it does is it so it's impossible for them to correlate exact unit square footage so it's it's approximates and averages but they tell you for example what a census tracked depending on the type of housing unit what the parking uh ownership is of those units so that's what you see those are the numbers you see before you the on page four um but that's those shut it down let me go back to page four yeah so at the bottom there that's what you see so what the census does it breaks it down if you're renting it right um if you're renting if you're renter because that's what these units are they would be rental units so this is a general census not based on the Passaic apartment size this is in a general state it's general well no it's to our census tract so specific basically this number you see here is for the census tract that this specific property applies to so no this is not general this is what the census when they did the sentence in Passaic this is what this census tract came out with based on their review so based on that we have uh no vehicle available no vehicle available on 375 for 29.3 percent of the the units um there's other things taken into consideration of the apartments for for size which isn't included we have the amount of units but so these are all units so they took into account the average of all units and that's census tract and this is what the census came out with based on that's assumption that we're replacing what we have with what we have that's not assumption that no that's there's no essential number placement at all this is just telling you this is what we have right so in that area the car ownership right of uh one vehicle or no vehicle is over what is that uh 67 eight 79 percent so 79 of all these units right are one car or less so when you're coming up with a parking standard you need to use some data right so we use the data um that we have that's provided by the census plus data of actual units that have been built in the area and we take into account uh buses busing and mass transit and I could tell you that in front of this building specifically it's one of the which I found very interesting when I spoke to New Jersey Trans is one of the busiest bus stops that they have in their system uh usage wise okay um so this is just to get a gauge so you understand kind of where the standards came in but I can also tell you that the planning board um doesn't like and this council for example also doesn't like to see for uh two bedrooms to be less than one and a half so that's why it's at one and a half irrespective of what the census comes up with which brings me to my next question see I'm I'm with you if you have a hundred studios or one bedrooms you need to have seven what is it you have a hundred one bedrooms and a hundred two bedrooms you end up with a wash of you end up with 225 parking spots based on the ones but the 0.75 and the 1.5 okay you go down to 50 two uh one bed uh two bedrooms and 100 one bedrooms you're now at uh I think it's a watch so 150 to 150 you go to them to 25 two bedrooms and you have 100 one bedrooms you're now below the minimum of the minimum of one parking spot per unit and you can get away with just one parking spot per unit so there's really no difference between building 100 one bedroom units 50 two bedroom units versus 100 one bedroom units and 25 two bedroom units it's the same they're gonna end up with the same amount of parking based on the requirement but I can also tell you if you look at our minimum requirements the maximum studio one bedroom mix is 20% okay because we don't want we have if you the city of Passaic has a larger family size no matter what census tracked than the national average which means we need family housing not just single and studio apartments hence why we have a minimum you there's a maximum requirement of a one one in bedrooms and studios and then there's no limit on two bedrooms and then there's a limit on three to fours because of the parking so we everything kind of interplays with each other to make sure there's a balance within the plan so the so just to repeat what you're saying the other way is 80% of this is at a minimum of 1.5 parking units per one per 1.5 parking or two depending on the type of unit at a minimum 1.5 okay and and any last question the filling up the space is there any requirement at any point for them to fill up the footprint they're getting redeveloped for or they can hold on for something later and say they come back to us with additional units for additional variances for additional ordinance so

So the so just to repeat what you're saying the other way is 80% of this is at a minimum of 1.5 parking units or one for 1.5 parts.

But at a minimum 1.5.

Okay.

And and last question.

The filling up the space, is there any requirement at any point for them to fill up the footprint for what they're getting redeveloped for?

Or they can hold on for something later and say they come back to us with additional units for additional variances for additional ordinance.

So an applicant can always request, right?

So within the law, you're allowed, you're allowed to request.

So an applicant can request changes, amendments to be added into a plan that's normal.

The question is, what consideration do you give each one of those requests?

And it's got and also within the law, it's on a case by case basis.

So not every project is the same, and not every project should be evaluated the same way.

You can't paint land use with a broad brush as much as sometimes we'd like to.

Okay, so for the specific ordinance, would it be us, the council?

Would it be us, the council, or would it be the planning board that sees the final layout for this project, whatever they come back with, and see whether it filled up the entire redevelopment, or there was left some for later?

That would be the planning board when the plan is prepared, right?

So no one sees it until the site plan is prepared.

What this does is it allows a guide for that site plan to be prepared.

So they prepare it, however, they see fit as a developer, and then they bring it to the planning board, and then the planning board evaluates it on its own merit off of this plan.

Okay.

So hypothetically, I but I don't like hypotheticals, but all right, let's work on them.

Hypothetically, they come in with uh apartment sizes on the site plan that are 10% bigger, yes, than these apartments.

Yes, presented to the planning board, everything is approved.

They go to construction of the city.

Now the apartments are 10% smaller, reserving space for some other development later on.

So it so it depends, it depends on the plan.

So I kind of know what you're getting at because I'm familiar with the comparisons.

This plan specifically, that's why I'm so happy that the state passed the regulation, specifically has minimum bedroom sizes.

That is a requirement of this plan.

If anyone comes in with a plan to construction that is less than the plan requirements, it needs a waiver, it needs a variance, it has to come back to the planning board.

And if they say they don't like it, and they say, well, I don't want to be have this 550 unit, um 550 square foot studio, I want it to be 400, right?

Then that requires an amendment to this plan, which the planning board can't do, and this board would then have to this governing body would then have to say, yes, we're gonna let the 400 go.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, but let me rephrase the question, or let me try.

They come in with higher numbers than the minimals, they come in 20% higher on the minimums.

These apartments are huge on the plan, they're approved for this.

They end up building that amount of units, but with the minimum amounts when they submit to construction, so they have 20% left over because they saved it for a later date.

So then they're in jeopardy of not getting anything approved in the future.

That's what happens, right?

Because the plan is also so there's many things that interplay.

So for example, this maximizes the number of units, right?

So if they exceed that number of units, that requires an amendment from the governing body, right?

And then the question becomes we passed the redevelopment plan, right?

The redevent plan was conducted and completed, right?

Is there still a need for redevelopment?

Right?

Because under the local housing redevelopment law, right?

Once the development is completed and there's changes that are want to be to that completed project, then there has to be a termination if you're still gonna use the redevelopment local housing redevelopment law, or you're gonna remove it from the local housing redevelopment law, then requiring that applicant to go to uh the planning or zoning board, depending on what the relief is requested to get relief, but it would be from the underlying zoning ordinance, no longer from the redevelopment.

So there's a complex question you're asking.

There's multiple layers, um, but that is typically what would happen if the council let's say they did that, right?

This applicant came in, they did it.

They we have 400 and and and 90 units, and they built them very small, and half of the building is vacant, right?

And now they say, well, you know what?

I got this half a vacant building, I want to go back, and I want to build it.

So they would have to come back here, because remember, yes, here to this, and say, I need another 100 units because I didn't build half of it.

Then the question is why the hell didn't you build half of it?

Right?

Like that you're a developer, you got approved for these 400 units.

That's what the government body, the planning board, because remember, this went to the planning board for consistency with the master plan, right?

This is and then the they have to submit a site plan also to the planning board.

So what happens is um they went through a whole process and now they want to do the whole process again.

So the reason is is there a need?

Because when you read the local housing redevelopment law, there has to be a need.

So this is excuse me for a moment.

Isn't there a need inherent in this issue overall throughout the state?

There is, but remember what happened, and buttressed by the governor's numerous statements in terms of more housing must be built.

Right.

So then that would be a consideration that the governing body would have to attain.

So for example, if a project is coming in that has no affordable housing, and now the project is proposing affordable housing, that is something to consider based on what you just said, council president, right?

Because the state is looking for housing specifically for families that fall within a certain income level.

So that is a consideration that you would give.

So for example, this one has not only affordable housing, it has workforce.

This plan has all the bells and whistles, and it also um reflects the state's new approach, because we specifically I went in there and I specifically took out sections of the uniform housing affordability controls statute of the state to include as part of this plan, which we didn't have the chance to do uh again, and I think we're all clear what the mayor's directive has been, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, mayor, but we're talking about the gap of those working residents that still can't afford the market rate but make too much for the affordable, that's the way you got workforce housing, then those that need it uh for affordable housing, all mixed with market rate incomes, uh, because that is not just within the state of New Jersey, but statewide, the approach, I mean, uh nationwide, the approach for development and integrating uses because the old affordable housing complexes of the 40s and 50s clearly that concentration didn't work.

So the uh diversity of of uh uses, but more directly to your point, council president, if this was already done, it takes a whole different life, right?

Once once they have availed themselves of the local housing redevelopment law and they've completed the project, then the question is well, is there a need for this amendment?

Right?

Is you know, is the project completed?

Is there a need?

What is the difference between what was presented that met all the guidelines and now what they're proposing now?

So that's why to your point, council president, if they're looking to add affordable housing, if they're looking to add workforce housing, things that make a significant difference, showing there's still a need, then that's something to consider.

If it's just I'm coming in with you know an additional market rate units, then what's what's the reason?

What's the rationale for the amendment?

Right?

That's from a planning perspective, but again, I'm giving you general notes.

Um, because every project is a little different, and you gotta evaluate them differently.

You may look at this and say, you know what?

Uh you know, I wish we would have done this, that, or the other thing, and then you make the amendment, or something changes in the state, or you know.

Thank you.

Mr.

Fernandes, if I can ask a question, and it's it's been troubling me for over a year.

Um when we speak about low moderate and workforce, those are different levels, right?

And it's based upon what the federal mean averages, yeah.

So it's based on a region.

So they put uh PASAIC in a region with like Bergen County and Sussex is in the region to balance out a minimum rental payment and a income limit, okay, to set a baseline of what those limits are so that when somebody comes, we know what number to look for so that we can establish whether they're moderate, low, or workforce.

So how does one make sure that there is a blend?

Isn't the purpose is that there be a blend?

Yeah.

So there's certain requirements.

Um, depending on, so we because we're a HUD entitlement city, our requirements we follow HUD requirements because that's where our funding sources come from.

So we we put that into the plans, which requires after a certain number of units that a percentage be moderate, a percentage be low and very low.

There's like a range that they have.

So if you have, let's say 13 units, a portion of those 13 units have to hit you know one of those income limits.

So the criteria for renting one of these apartments has to do with your income versus the federal standards.

Correct.

And then your um income to uh expense ratio.

So affordable housing, the definition of affordable housing is 80% of median income or below, but a maximum household expense of 30 to 35 percent.

Okay, this is this is what I wanted to understand better.

Yes.

So how does how does that work essentially on a practical basis?

I go to rent an apartment with my wife and family.

Um I make too much, I don't qualify.

I make too little, I don't qualify.

Is that correct?

Um yes, depending on the unit, right?

So there that's why that's why the regulations require a range of incomes.

Does it dictate to us how many of each it dictate?

So remember, this did dictates minimums.

You can always exceed the minimums.

If you say that, you know, really in the city of Passake, the range we have more of a greater need at 40, 30 to 40 percent of AMI, right?

Then you can say that X percent of these affordable units have to be you know 30, 40 percent of AMI, which exceeds the federal minimum.

I've always been told that Passaic is unfairly placed in this analysis because income levels in Bergen, which were a part of that group, as you would say, um uh just that much higher than they are in Passaic and thus hurting Passaic residents.

Would you agree with that?

I don't know if I'd say that because I look at census tracks specifically to track that down, and when we do our numbers, we look at those census tracks.

Um so yes, there is a skew, but there's a skew from the higher income limits within one municipality and one section of that municipality to another.

So that is why they also threw in Sussex, right?

So when you when you look at, well, how did Sussex get into the Passake Bergen region, right?

That is to balance the income levels because Sussex sections of Sussex are way lower, right?

So it tries to create a balance.

So the regional approach is trying to create a balance, so it's so that the moderate income is not too low, and the low income isn't too high, I guess is the best way to do it.

Uh, but yes, and so if you're looking just at Bergen County, it's gonna skew it, but when you look at it as a region, it balances itself out.

And there are rules and regulations in terms of um same-sex children um receiving their own bedrooms that you can't that's correct.

That's that's under the uh multiple dwelling and uh tenant uh rights to so if I have a two if I have a two bedrooms, I mean, can my wife and I sleep on the couch in the living room as as long as each of the the two boys and two girls that I have have their own bedrooms.

So now you're getting into like construction code and what's permissible as a habitable space, right?

So there are certain locations that are uninhabitable in an apartment, so you can't sleep in the bathroom, you can't sleep in the kitchen, right?

But a living room is a habitable space.

Now, that being said in the code, a bedroom, you can't cross one bedroom to get to another bedroom and say you got two bedrooms.

That's only one bedroom, right?

So that could kind of hinder that scenario, right?

But it's hard because you gotta see a layout of the unit and and all of that.

So no, okay.

And then there's on top of that, there's overcrowding requirements.

So there's a certain number of individuals that can live in an apartment based on their square footage.

So that can exceed that, which then would require a bigger unit.

So there's multiple, there, I mean, there's a whole slew of regulations from different as well as relationships and be familiar with relationship amongst all the people living in the apartments as well.

Yes.

So I started my career doing overcrowding and illegal housing.

So I'm very familiar.

That's why I know the code the way I know the code.

Councilman Mark is that you're lying.

Yes, thank you.

Council President, just to address your heart beyond regarding the AMIs, it's the whole thing is really skewed, especially when you bring in so many different counties.

So I mean, what should be happening is that every zip coach really has its own AMIs.

Because what happens is many times, you could have the 70, 80% of AMI could actually be a market rent.

Let's say you want to charge $3,000 for an apartment, right?

Because you the AMI might be very high in the area, so your 80% might be exactly $3,000.

So when you offer affordable housing, it's it's from a developer's perspective, he's not really giving up anything because his market rents fit into 80% box to begin with.

So for a developer where the AMI is relatively high, it works, you know, you know a paper looks very nice, you know, 75% to 80% of the AMI.

And you know, it definitely helps people if they could afford it, right?

But it's good for a developer because he's not really giving up anything with by saying, hey, I'll give 50% of my units at 75, 80% of the AMI, whatever it is, you know.

So yeah, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it it actually works many times in favor of a developer that makes the deal work.

He's not really discounting his rents at all by doing affordable housing.

And I wonder if I can fight, I wonder why they fight tooth and nail not to do it then, right?

Because they come in here fighting tooth and nail that they don't want to build any affordable housing, or let's put them all in the same building.

So I've been doing this for quite some time, and uh I can tell you that those are rare instances depending on the market.

One of the main reasons that you see this regional is because there's a regional need, and it's to try to get more affordable housing, quite frankly, and more affluent counties.

That is why they're doing it.

So the one of the things that happens with affordable housing in this state is that we put out numbers for municipalities, so we're not one of those because we we meet our fair share of affordable housing, so we want to expand it to our sister cities.

So what happens is they're so focused on a number and meeting a number that they don't understand that this is an average of a regional need, so that Passake doesn't get all of them, right?

So that Patterson doesn't get all of them, so that other municipalities have to provide their fair share of affordable housing in the city of Passake, which we've made very clear, right, mayors we want to provide for our residents to not displace them, but also keep the individuals that may uh have higher education that may get a better house, uh better um finances to stay here, right?

And then diversify the incomes within units to make them uh not only more affordable but more attractive and change really the economy of the area, right?

So that concentration of either side is no good.

Okay, that's clear because what happens is if you go too low, then the economy tanks and you're providing services hand over fist.

If it's too high, they are then so restrictive, they let no one else that doesn't look exactly like them in their section, right?

So that is the two extremes, and what we've always talked about, right, Mayor has been balance.

We want to provide balance.

Um, as best we can, because like you're saying, Councilman Monk, there's also the market, there's the economy, there's inflation, there's the cost of construction, right?

Which then skews all of that.

And what we're trying to do here with all the ordinances that the mayor has proposed and the council has passed, is to provide a level of protection for those individuals, but also not determinals from investing within the municipality.

And as we said, well, all of what do we call them?

The stabilization of the marketing to say, it's to provide that balance.

So I I think they come in, no one wants to fight in terms of the farm.

I'm sorry, the reason why they fight the affordable piece is because no one wants a property.

We have restrictions where in case the market does start flying, you don't want to be restricted for a refinance purpose or for a sale, right?

You want institutional buyer to come pick up 600 units, right?

Without you don't have restrictions, it's only gonna hurt you.

Yeah, so if I could just elaborate for the public and for the council members that may not know.

So what happens is because this is a requirement, there has to be a deed restriction that goes with the land that these units for at least 20 years in the city of Passake has to be has to remain affordable, and the increases can only be guided by those federal increases on income and rental market.

So that's that's what we're talking about when we're we're having a discussion on refinancing and having restrictions on it because it is a deed restriction, so that if the market does blow up, right, which we want it to, we don't displace individuals that are living in these apartments.

So that's why those restrictions exist.

Why like I stand like you know, you you have a development of 20, 30, 50 units.

Um I stand that the this plan requires 50 dwellings or more to have a traffic study, a drainage study, uh sanitary sewer system.

Why not a school impact of what it will do on the school?

I mean, you're talking about not talking about 50 units, talking about 600.

How many are just talking about 400?

Uh yeah, it depends.

It's a maximum here, but they can come in below that.

We don't know what the number is, they can't go above it.

490.

Yeah.

So why isn't that such a large project?

Something of concern.

Uh, so what happens is it's the reason is because there's already a study that everybody uses.

It came from out of ruckers, and that's any professional that comes before the board that they talk about school children, is gonna refer to that study, and they base it on an average and estimate that ruckers came out with um you know, several years back, and that's been the norm for professionals.

So you're really requesting it, is only like putting it in here, it's only gonna get you the regurgitation of that study.

So where is I mean, where is so usually it's a question that's asked when they're at the planning board, and then their professionals have to answer it.

It's no different than you know, uh having them justify their parking requirements.

That'd be part of the impact study then, especially the data is available.

So are that impact study?

It could be, it could be, it's just no our code, our code has never required that, so we don't put it in there.

This would be the first time.

I mean, if you wanted it, I don't think it's a major change to ask add that as you know, a child impact study to this specifically.

But I can tell you that in units that are 50 or greater, that's a conversation that's had, and the planning board can you know discuss those findings with those individuals.

But does the why if it's not part of the plan, it's not a required impact study as traffic drainage and sewer is why would the planning board even have to take it into account?

Um they it they can or they cannot.

So what happens is the the reason that it's typically not.

So let's start with that, is because that's a moving target, right?

It's a moving target.

You don't know how many children are actually gonna be there or not, right?

You can have estimates based on what the census data is based on family size.

Uh you can look at you know, you can make estimates based on the unit mix, how many are one bedrooms, how many are two bedrooms, how many are three bedrooms.

But as an example, so I could tell you that the rule of thumb is if it's three or four, guaranteed is guaranteed.

If it's studios and one bedrooms, not really, unless they're overcrowding the apartment, and then your one and twos.

So yeah, but is that an example?

I'm telling you, there's a study out there, and these are conversations that planning boards are having.

We've just never put it in a plan.

In all fairness, parking is a moving target, too.

Yeah, but uh uh um parking, right?

Is it a moving target, but it's not it's not like children are a moving target because it could be one child, two child that you don't know the size of the uh of the family size.

So similarly to parking, right?

And remember, we're not asking for a parking study, we're asking for a traffic study on the parking, right?

We're using our best guess based on census data on what the number of units and historically what the appetite for any of the boards have been.

So, like I said, originally in certain areas of town that have a lot of mass transit, it used to be two bedrooms one to one when we first started doing that.

There is no longer an appetite for the one to one, it has to be one and a half.

So then those changes were made based on you know what we've seen, right?

So um I would I would say that parking is less of a moving target than the number of children in the in the classroom because there's so many, and for example, how many of them go to public schools, how many of them go to private schools, right?

Like there's a whole how many of them are all in kindergarten, how many so there's many many more layers than if I own one car or two cars, right?

So one of the issues that you look at when you're looking at this is impact on the school system, right?

Why do you want to know how many kids people have?

Right?

The reason is for the impact, let's say on the school system.

Well, then the idea is well, how many of them are going to use the school system?

How many of them are actually going to be in the same grade?

Um, thank you.

And then the biggest thing that is evaluated is well, what about enrollment, right?

In school enrollment, and the mayor was kind enough to remind me that our enrollment in the city of Passake has gone down by over 4,000 students in our local public school system, right?

So in actuality, when things like that happen, you actually want to promote having more children because you don't want to close doors and you don't want to fire teachers and staff.

That happens, right?

Um, so those are all considerations that one takes into place when they're evaluating that.

But those are questions that are asked by by board members, and that's why typically you don't have it in this, like a sewer system, the impact, the impact of the sewer system, right?

Um DEP and the stormwater regulations literally has gallonage per unit per day, peak hours.

It's given to us.

You could do the menace, right?

And you know if the impact requires the board, for example, to say, well, you need to change this linear footage in front of your building as a new sewer section because of the impact on it, right?

That's a condition they can place to alleviate that requirement, right?

Traffic, if the traffic study, there's very specific calculations, how many trips per hour at what time come out of a building per unit?

It's already there.

Just do the math.

Um engineers make a lot of money doing that, right?

So then the question becomes is that too much for the street to handle, or is there a condition that could be placed?

For example, the planning board.

I know for many many times I'm looking at councilwoman Calom Montañez has required speed bumps coming out of driveways from buildings to slow down the traffic onto the roadway, or requiring flashing lights or stop signs, or requiring street traffic lights in intersections that are affected by that property, right?

But that's all there's actual numbers and formulas that are used for that.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Um do the general administrative provisions that states what's what can you just tell me the page and section?

Page eight.

The planning board may grant exceptions or waivers from design standards from the requirements for the site plan or subdivision approval as may be reasonable and within the general purpose and intent of provisions for site plan review or subdivision approval within this plan.

I'm gonna skip a few sentences here.

Um deviations may be granted under the terms of the section, unless such deviations can be granted without resulting in substantial detriment to the public good, and will not substantially impair the intent and purpose of the redevelopment plan.

Yes.

Who decides what's substantial and what's not substantial?

The board members that are entrusted with making that waiver that decision.

Um in other words, in other words, if uh if a plan calls for 600 parking spots and a board decides, well we cut that in half, it's not such a substantial um change, you know that the board could decide.

You're saying any change the board makes is considered a change that's a deviation that's that's not substantial, that's a does not substantially impact or the intent of the so that's a generalization of the statement, and it's it's general on purpose because they want to give flexibility to the boards to make decisions, right?

And that's any board.

This language is in every code and it's in the state of New Jersey.

Um there are proofs that are required on the record through the municipal land use law to prove if there's substantial detriment or not, and that comes by the presentation of the professionals of the applicant to prove that if they prove that to the satisfaction of the board, then they can get granted the waiver.

Now there's also an appeal process.

There's 45 days after the action of any board that you can appeal their determination.

You know, I hate to say it, but I've seen cases where governing bodies have sued their zoning boards and their planning boards, right?

For you know some of their actions, right?

Some ones, some loss, you know, but there's the law is set up that way for that purpose.

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

I was just curious what what that language meant.

Um, so this is that there's a specific legal meaning for it that has to be presented by the applicant to show that.

So, like when I do presentations for applicants, well, not that I haven't done one in a million years, but I have to compare the project to the plan to the master plan, to the code, to the municipal land use law, the purposes of the municipal land use law, and those are how you establish substantial uh consistency and uh uh you know limited impairment of the intent and purpose of the redevelopment plan.

Okay, there's under this plan, right?

It's it calls to at least 50 percent of the units to uh basically a few different provisions.

There's the 20 percent which we have of required of affordable units, right?

70 percent, 80 percent below it and 20 percent workforce, which is 60 to 120 percent of AMI, and then in addition to this says no less than 50 percent of the workforce units should be allocated to households earning 60 to 75 percent.

Yes, what does that mean?

So workforce housing as defined is 60 percent to 120 percent.

So remember your comment that well, you know, to me as a developer, it's market rate, right?

So when you're hitting the 120 percent of uh AMI, you're much closer to market, right?

So what this says is you can't avail yourself of the workforce housing requirement by making them all 100, half of them have to be between the 60 and 75.

You know, just to bring you back to some conversations that the mayor's had in this specific council about meeting that gap of those individuals that are hardworking families that get left out, and we wanted to make sure that with such a large project, right?

We were able to cross all the T's and dot all the I's of every this is a culmination of all those regulations that the mayor has proposed, and this council has voted on in one plan.

Yeah, so I I just for clarity.

So if you have the affordable units, which is 80% below AMI, so let's say AMI just for around around the numbers.

Um AMI is 100,000.

Okay.

AMI.

Do you want the exact numbers?

I mean, I could look it up, but it's just like it's just let's say AMI is 100,000.

Okay.

So 80% affordable means they have to be earning 80,000 or less.

Yes.

It depends on family size.

But I'm following you.

Okay.

I like the easy math.

Okay.

So the workforce house units is 60 to 120% of AMI.

Yes.

So 120% of AMI, which means someone that's making $120,000.

Yes.

So how is that?

What defines that workforce?

If someone's making $120,000, what defines workforce that he qualifies for these 20 workforce units?

The AMI.

But he's he's making over AMI.

Right.

So it goes back to your point about the region and the you know area and the different counties and the whole thing, right?

So I'm sorry, it's just and I'm interested in it.

Councilman, you said he is making referring to an individual, but it could be they.

Yeah, it could be the AMI.

Yeah, we can line up.

Right.

So the AMI is based on family size as well, right?

So if you're a family of four in the city of Passake, then you're looking at the 95,000 AMI, but that's a family of four.

But I'm going with this is if we're looking to make housing affordable, and that seven of the units are 20, right?

The 15%, whatever it is, by allowing some of the units to go over the over 100%, that's not really someone that needs financial help.

So if you look at a couple, let's say you have husband and a wife, three children, two children, 120 isn't the same as the individual professional making 120.

Which wouldn't qualify.

They would be making too much money on numbers.

So a one single person under AMI in the city of Passake, right?

120,000 for a single person under the workforce would be making too much money.

By this exact to answer your question, what we're doing right now, the discussions we're currently having percentages of affordable housing that ranges anywhere from 30% of AMI to 80%, and workforce housing that ranges from 60% to 120% of AMI.

So everyone who applies for an apartment needs to there needs to be diversity of those incomes.

You can't have five people earning the lowest amount.

Right.

One person the most and there has to be that flexibility as well, because one thing we all know is that banks currently are very fickle.

And they're not fickle at all.

No, they have they don't want to loan anything to anybody unless it's a million dollars, like unless they know they're getting prepaid paid back.

So what happens is you have to have that flexibility to make sure it's fundable.

So one of the worst things that I could tell you from experience that has even happened in Pacific is there are programs where the state requirement to meet the grant doesn't match up with the underwriting of the bank, and we've had nightmares of reconciling the underwriting of the bank with the grant money that they were given us from these different agencies.

So those are things that um you know we work through an expectation of the council?

Expectation of the range, yeah.

Yeah, just there's a range, and sometimes we we see the higher end of the range when we're talking about the AMI.

And if you're thinking 120%, the likelihood that everyone who's gonna be going in there is at that higher range is lower for those who are listening.

AMI online would be area medium income.

So we throw around these acronyms, we're privy to the info.

Sometimes the late people don't income is uh requested, proof of income is requested.

How often so it has to start when the rental is given, and it really ranges depending on if there's funding sources or not that goes into the affordable housing.

So one of the things we're blessed with here in the city of Passake is we do get an allocation from HUD.

Um specifically home funds, and if they avail themselves of that, there's a whole list of other requirements, but they have to provide proof at any time and keep records of that proof um as they they register their tenants because the city of Pisca also has a tenant registration requirement that has to reconcile all those requirements, and they have to provide us with a deed restriction, so that at any time um they can be audited.

We ask for audited financials.

Do they get a pilot?

Do they not get a pilot?

So the timing, the frequency of the timing is really dependent on all the other things, but it it happens at least annually, should happen at least annually.

Thank you, Councilman.

Um just the affordable.

What percentage of AMI is that?

It's 80% or below.

Thanks.

Also, you mentioned this 20-year deed restriction.

Well, we're doing pilots.

I'll say this.

There's no pilot on that.

I'll say that.

I know we kind of went off the ordinance, but I think it was a very good conversation to have.

I'm happy to have it.

I allowed it because frankly, I think that uh all of uh the council members learned quite a bit, which will hopefully assist us in doing even better jobs.

Are there any other questions?

Just 25 23.

Yeah, just for the following up that you know we had asked for you know how how meaningful these plans are that the council.

So at our last meeting, uh councilman monk um had requested a council president, you had asked us to prepare a report of the last 20 redevelopment applications to the planning board and the parking variances that were required.

So we took the last 20 that ranged from 2026 to 2021.

Right.

Uh out of those 20, 14 of them did not require a parking variance, they complied.

One of them required one parking variance, two of them required two parking variances, one required three parking spots, but it ended with a one-to-one ratio.

So even though they got three parking space variants, each unit got a parking space.

So it wasn't like a unit was left out.

Then there were two outliers.

One was five units, one was seven, one was five parking spaces, one was seven parking spaces.

I the the one that is seven parking spaces was like from like three years ago, so I don't remember.

But the one for five parking spaces, which was um just last year, and that was on Main Avenue.

So, as uh uh council may recall that on Main Avenue, we're actually trying to have residential parking permits and opening up the center islands and the parking deck for residential parking permits, so uh developers could come in and offer beyond their parking requirement by residential parking spaces.

So, for example, uh and and council women correct me if I'm wrong.

I think there was one of them where you required that the uh applicant would have to provide a their parking spaces, but also a residential parking permit for every single car that comes up on their leases.

So if all of a sudden you added a car, not you know um not to exceed their full amount, they would have to purchase uh at their expense a parking pass for the residents of that unit.

Additional to the pilot, that is a justification to grant the variance.

Remember, there's a misnomer, and all developers know this already because I've said it to them blue in the face.

A pilot does not apply until after the case has been adjudicated.

There is no I pay you for the parking spot, so I don't have to provide it.

That doesn't exist here.

They have to get the variant.

So even though this, and that's a great point.

So even though this applicant got a five parking spot variance, even that the board required them to pay for the residential parking permit, the fact they got the variance still owes us a pilot above and beyond all of that.

So those are the numbers for the last 20.

So 14 of them did not require one.

There was really only two, like I said, that were outliers, one for five, one for seven.

But I could tell you that the one for five, which was on Maine and Jefferson.

Um there's things to take into account was the access to public transit, the availability of public parking, the availability of residential parking permits, and you know, if if that were to be granted, then the pilot comes separate and apart, which um this council may recall those payments of the pilot was what was used as the down payment for the parking deck.

Okay, so you mentioned there's one of them needed one variance, one of the two of them needed two variances.

Two variants means two spots, two spots.

Everything we're talking about is per spot.

So basically, 14 of them didn't need any of it.

One of them needed one spot, two of them needed two spots.

One of them needed three spots, but it gave a one to one ratio.

So every unit got one.

Then you had one on main avenue that I explained, and then the one for seven, I it was it's an older case, but they did have a one to one.

So even though they were seven spaces short, it was 24 units, and they provided 24 parking spaces.

So they also gave a one to one.

Is that me?

We don't know which rank.

Yeah, so now I just read the notes.

Even the seven was 24 units, 24 parking spaces.

So even though they received a variance, each unit had a parking space.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you for that research.

Appreciate it.

Okay.

We this is a great project.

I just want to council brother.

I think it's it's an amazing project to um take real literally a corner of the city.

And it already started right with Market Street.

You have some new new stuff that um that was developed that has been developed there, right?

And um a few new buildings there, so it's really gonna transform that whole area in the you know, in the downtown area.

So yeah, to that point, the mayor had asked me to look at it so that and express to the council.

This is a holistic approach.

Yeah, this is right across the street from Big Apple West.

Um, I mean, big Apple West is right across the street from Factory 220, which is all commercial, you know, uh from it.

Then it's you know, walking distance from 8th Street, which has the hundreds of thousands of square feet of industrial space.

So we're connecting people to jobs, we're connecting people to transportation, we're connecting people to businesses, local businesses.

This is what redevelopment is all about.

I'm very proud to say that I'm uh no land and yeah, I I I did with the council permission.

If you want, I could share you a little slideshow that shows it.

If you want to see it real quick, how quick is quick.

Uh two seconds, it's just pictures.

I'll show you real fast.

Can you give this to the council?

Okay.

All right, madam clerk.

Can I share?

Yes, I made you co-host.

Okay.

They're not really these are not really made for these computers, so it's loading.

Here it is.

Okay.

Uh oh my god, it took me.

Am I still in the Zoom?

Yep.

You're gonna have to tell me out here because this thing just disappeared on me.

I don't know.

Oh, here it is.

Okay.

I got it because it's on a it's on a web interface.

Let me share.

Here we go.

All right.

Can everybody see that now?

There we go.

All right, see, I figured it out.

Took me a minute, but I got it.

Okay.

Um, so this is the one market street application.

Let me see.

Can I do a full screen on this?

Why is this one so different to navigate?

I don't understand.

Okay.

And this thing doesn't look.

Oh, there we go.

All right, here we go.

There you go.

Okay, it takes a minute.

All right.

So this is the location.

As you can see, it's around by the east side redevelopment plan, which is the yellow, and then the burgundy or red is the market street redevelopment plan.

So this is literally at the heart of the entrance to our redevelopment area.

This site, it's located surrounded by a multitude of projects.

You have the residential projects, the lofts that were converted, factory 220 that was done in the 127 south, which is almost completed.

It's over seven acres.

And these are all logistic and industrial centers which employ hundreds of individuals that are all within walking distance to this redevelopment plan that's being proposed.

Not to mention that these are again the census numbers, just so you can see the difference between 2010 when we used to do a one-to-one to now in 2026, where we do a one and a half parking spaces because the average household size has gone up by 0.2.

Right.

So you see, we use data as we approach that.

So one of the biggest things to note is the diversity in uses, right?

The fact that you have all these industrial centers, and these are just the highlights of redevelopment.

This isn't even everything that's in that area.

These are just the highlighted redevelopment areas, as well as all the construction that's going on, specifically factory 220, which I'm happy to report that we're working on a marketplace, the Sawoda de Basic, right?

The 220 experience, which will bring small businesses into an area to provide their different food options within this factory 220 to fill it up, which provides more jobs, and it provides amenities to all these workers and and residents in the area, as well as possibly a boutique hotel.

So if people want to come visit people that live in that area, they're able to come in and do that.

So the reason and purpose for this is to show you what where this project is and why the proposal is what the proposal is and why we presented it to you in the way that we did, because this is the gateway.

So if you look at it, this is when you come in off of the highway, you make the right.

This is the first thing you see when you cross over Route 21.

So it's a it's a very impactful, and like councilman monk says, change would change that downtown area, um, and go fit very nicely, uh supplement all the other development and uses that are in the area, and I think that is it.

I move now stop sharing.

There you go.

That's quick, right?

So the president is five seconds.

Are you saying it's me?

It's over.

It's over.

Okay, I'll move to close public portion.

I have a I have a motion and a second to close public portion already.

Uh we can go, but thank you, Councilman.

Roll call, please.

Councilman Monk, yes, councilman love, yes, yes, councilwoman Mellow, yes, councilman mayor, yes, councilman Garcia, yes, councilman Colombon Tanes, yes, and council president share.

Yes, thank you.

On the ordinance, please is there a motion to accept?

Move it, second, motion and second to accept.

Councilman Monk, yes, councilman love councilman mellow, yes, councilman mayor, yes, councilman Garcia, yes, councilwoman Colombo, yes, and council president shares.

Yes, thank you.

The ordinance has passed.

Number two, please.

Proposed ordinance 2528-26 in order to mend the designation of restricted parking for disabled persons by New Jersey license plate number.

Is there a motion please to open public hearing?

Yes, second second roll call, please.

Councilman Monk, yes, councilman love councilwoman mellow, yes, councilman mayor, yes, councilman Garcia, yes, councilman Colombon.

Yes, well council president shares yes, sir, yes, thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

At this time, the council will be deliberating proposed ordinance 2528 plus 26.

Is there anyone who'd like to adjust the council on this side and on this side of my showing no hand?

Excuse me.

Yes, sir.

This is on the ordinance.

I know the hours like this one say uh radius involved.

I did a random survey of reserved parking spots in Passaic.

No, sir, we are not on that ordinance.

I would like to let the council know.

Excuse me, sir.

We are we have gone over that.

We are now on a new ordinance.

Okay.

This is for the reserve parking spaces.

This is for designation of restricted parking.

Yes, thank you.

I would like to let the council president know that I did a random survey of parking spots with desert parking.

The city is not enforcing, and people's tags are expired, non-existent, but the license plate is still on the sign.

I just want the council to know that.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, sir.

We have a where are we on this?

There's no one else you can close.

That was in terms of public hearing.

Motion to close would like to adjust the council, please on 2528-26.

Motion and second to close public portion.

Councilman Monk?

Yes.

Councilman Love.

Yes.

Councilman Mellow?

Yes.

Councilman Mayor?

Yes.

Councilman Garcia?

Yes.

And Council President Sheer.

Yes, thank you.

On the ordinance, please.

Is there a maker?

Second.

Councilman Monk.

Yes.

Councilman Love.

Yes.

Yes.

Councilman Mellow.

Yes.

Councilman Mayor?

Yes.

Councilman Garcia?

Yes.

Council President Sheer.

Yes, thank you.

That was on the ordinance.

Yes, sir.

Very good.

Uh why we're up to number three, post ordinance 2529.

Why don't we take about a five-minute break?

Yeah.

Is that right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

It's a logical time to do it.

You have to vote on it.

No, that's one of the few powers that I actually have as council president.

Thank you, Claire.

Roll call, Council President.

Councilman Monk.

Yes.

Councilman Love.

Councilman Melo.

Yes.

Councilman Mayor?

Yes.

Councilman Garcia?

Yes.

Councilman Colom Montañez?

Yes.

Council President Sheer.

Yes, thank you.

We are now on yes.

I'm here, Council President.

Thank you, Councilman.

We are on number three, please.

We're still on number three, please.

Pilot with Spear Village Preservation Owner LLC.

Is there a motion, please to open public hearing?

Move it.

Second.

Motion and second.

Roll call, please.

Councilman Monk.

Yes.

Councilman Love.

Yes.

Councilwoman Mellow.

Yes.

Councilman Mayor.

Yes.

Councilman Garcia.

Yes.

Councilman Colomo Benez?

Yes.

Council President Shear.

Uh, yes, thank you.

Uh we just opened public hearing.

Yes, sir.

During the Councilman Monk, your light is on.

Yeah, fine.

Thank you.

Um we get just uh high level to start in terms of what this project is.

I don't come in for payment in lieu of taxes, a pilot program.

Um what what's what is this project consists of so this is uh phase one of the overall rehabilitation and uh redesign of Spear Village.

So this specific uh pilot would be for the rehabilitation of the four buildings in the rear.

So these buildings are gonna remain a hundred percent affordable.

Then the rest of the projects would be integrated incomes and possibly uses with uh commercial, but that's not what we're here for.

I don't even have a site plan for the other phases.

This is only for the rehabilitation.

They need the pilot, so they can go to NJ HMFA, which is the housing mortgage.

I tried to say housing and mortgage at the same time, that didn't work out well.

The housing mortgage finance agency for their financing, which qualifies for the 30-year abatement that you have here.

So that funding source is what triggered the 30-year abatement and the requirements of that 30-year abatement.

So, right, who owns this project right now?

Who owns this?

Currently, it is the uh State Housing Authority.

Okay, so they're selling it.

So they're making an agreement with a developer to maintain the affordable housing.

So, in essence, they would be they would be owning it, and uh housing authority would be managing it, or it'd be kind of a no, that's not how it is.

So we we do have the owner here.

I don't know if you want to the developer is here if you want to ask him specifically how that transfer works.

So they're going to be uh the property's gonna be there is they're gonna manage the property, and I think the housing authority manages the vouchers or something like that.

The gentleman is that's what it is.

So I know there was something like that.

So yes, the housing authority manages the vouchers, but they manage the project.

Um, they have to be an urban renewal LLC nonprofit to do the the HMFA financing, so then this will go to HMFA for them to get the financing, and then they can start the rehabilitation of the price.

So what's councilman monk?

You have the floor.

Did you want to invite the gentleman to address?

Yeah, I would love to in a few minutes if you don't mind.

Okay.

So currently these buildings have 256 rental units.

Yes.

Okay.

And currently the when this is finished, the people that are living there will still be eligible to live here.

Yes.

So there's gonna be new requirements.

No, so I mean there's income requirements that they have to meet, but uh under HUD, um housing urban development, it requires that there be a relocation plan, and that individuals that want to come back to the units are eligible to come back to the units if they don't accept the voucher and leave.

There's a whole relocation plan that has to be approved by HUD for those tenants that want to stay or come back.

Okay.

Please I would love to hear um I I'm trying to, if you don't mind, I'm trying to understand what we're doing here.

Right now, I know we have buildings.

Oh, it's six was it?

Four buildings, six buildings.

That are up right now.

Susie.

So I you look like a great guy.

You want to help Passai.

You know, first person ever walked in it with a nice big smile.

I love Passaic.

I want to help.

I'm doing it for free.

All right.

Um really trying to understand is that I know that it says that the city of Passai is going to earn 165,000 a year, or three percent of income.

But I also see the developer is going to earn 14 million dollars of fees.

So I'm trying to figure out why you should do it, and not the city shouldn't do this and make the 14 million dollars.

Like what are you bringing to the table?

What are you doing?

What's your vision here?

Okay, that we should roll out the red carpet for you and hand you the keys to these buildings.

And it's you know, capitalism, you should make all the money, I'm sure you deserve it, plus more.

But explain to you what's going on here.

Like what are we doing?

Sure.

Uh, we thank you for the opportunity to present to you.

And uh, I'm glad my smile had some effect.

Uh could it go so far as to give us your name, your firm, and certainly certainly.

My name is John Quartel, and I'm the principal of Quartel Development Group.

I uh represent a partnership with LM Development.

Um, and together we are collaborating with the housing authority on um the transformation of its existing assets.

We are uh engaging in this in this opportunity to collaborate in part because we have an extensive track record in just this kind of partnership.

We value these relationships as device to uh respond and deliver for communities.

So we have been long in conversation with this administration in part uh to understand goals set and um uh to communicate um something that works for city residents as well as future residents of the city.

Um we uh together with LM, we are doing this work across the state across the state, if not across the nation.

And um uh we are choosing to do this in part because uh there is a meaningful opportunity enabled through these programs to uh improve these buildings and deliver uh efficiency efficiently um uh you know improved quality of affordable housing.

Um we can do it faster than we can ground up new new construction, we can leverage the resources created by existing in-place buildings which by themselves have residual value to then pursue additional uh new construction components that will supplement the vision of a transformed gateway condition here.

We take this seriously because this is a gateway into the city, and we think that the uh the I these six buildings, there are six currently.

The conversation that we're having or the evaluation you're you're you're doing now relates only to four in the back.

The four in the back represent a majority of the total and are effectively agents to preserve in place the affordable housing, create and improve those buildings as long-term quality affordable housing opportunities, but also facilitate redevelopment of underutilized portions of that property, including the office structure and areas on the front on State Street, which are of visible and critical importance.

I I know that you uh must have gone through a tremendous amount of review before you were chosen, but you shared that you're working in other uh municipalities in the state.

Could you just share that with us?

Then that's we've we've been collaborating with with the state on the repositioning of the meaningful project in Trenton that's across the street from the AG's office, uh, known as Kingsbury Towers property was uh in substantial duress, and we are substantially along in a meaningful repositioning.

And uh in that instance, a similar pilot was approved in part because the pilot resources enable a substantial rehab.

So again, the goal here is to meaningfully transform these gateway buildings to improve the the offering that they're making for the existing housing.

The councilman you said will existing residents be enabled to remain?

Yes, of course.

Some portion of the goal is to make sure those residents have improved quality housing opportunities.

Uh those buildings have not seen, they've been maintained well by the housing authority, but they have not seen meaningful investment to modernize those units and create sustainable housing opportunities for the next 30 years.

Can you give us another municipality as well?

Uh well, I mean, we're we're currently at work in uh uh Irvington, but we um uh we've done a good deal of work in Newark.

Um our firm has done a variety of of project types.

Um one of one of the projects that we were associated with is the Haynes Redevelopment in downtown Newark.

Um thank you for that.

Please go on with your sorry.

Um I wanna make sure that I've answered the councilman's earlier question about the ongoing role of the housing authority.

So the housing authority is anticipating effectively um remaining the underlying owner of the asset.

So they will maintain a fee position and finance an acquisition price to support the project through a uh seller note.

So they will remain the fee owner, they'll the the subject of the property will be subject to a ground lease, the pilot will be on the ground lease, and then the housing authority will participate in both the development uh fee that you cited and will also um play a role in the long-term ownership of the improvements uh to the um administrator's point.

Um the housing authority will continue to administer vouchers for for the city and for the uh for the project.

So you're putting in 147 million dollars the cost, right?

Uh into the overall project cost.

Into this these 256 units.

That's like 600,000 a door.

Some portion of that is um uh the valuation of the land, which is then being contributed.

So it's a little bit um I would focus on the amount of work we're doing and the amount of hard costs uh specifically is over 200,000 a unit, with the expectation that that will make a significant dent in modernizing these units.

So what so the the uh just step me through here a second?

So the housing authorities giving you a note for like 41 million of this, right?

To largely offset the purchase price, yes.

So in other words, you're buying it, and they're giving you a note to carrying the cost of the partial of the property.

Yes, uh I know that you um have some interest in this business yourself, councilman.

So I I I for the rest of the audience, I think um this structure facilitates um federal tax credit proceeds that then become a source for the hard costs.

So um the financial engineering you're citing isn't where the the guts of this is.

It's in it's really in the fact that we're doing this without reducing tax collections to the city or asking for upfront subsidy.

We're doing this entirely on the strength of HUD and federal tax credit proceeds with HMFA functioning as a conduit.

Okay.

Okay.

So excuse me.

So this note.

Yes.

Well, what's the interest rate on this note?

I was curious.

Honestly, I'm gonna get it wrong.

Um I don't know.

It's uh it's it's it's sub 10.

I don't, I don't know.

I don't I don't remember what where we came out.

Um tax counsel to the agency and the tax credit investor will end up resolving that.

Um, you know, it's uh it's it's not a driver for the housing authority or for the transaction, it is a part of a uh a financial engineering to try to just generate financial uh federal tax credit proceeds that then provide a subsidy so that city and state don't have to do it.

So basically the the goal here is to take these 256 units and rehab them, put in a few hundred thousand dollars a door into each apartment, and then put the tenants back in, whatever, then put the people back into the project at the rent's gonna be the same, it's gonna go up.

What's the plan there?

The the uh the tenants in place won't see a meaningful adjustment to their out-of-pocket because I think he said earlier that ultimately they're they're subject to you know limitations on what they what their incomes are, so their rents are tied to their incomes.

Um what it does do though is it enables us to um uh with a forward looking view, enhance the uh breadth of the population that we can serve.

So what is currently a public housing asset and is restricted to you know public housing tenancy would become uh more likely to serve the populations the councilman was was referring to when he was when he was suggesting the low uh very low and moderate.

So we will effectively be positioning this asset for the long term is affordable, but taking it again out of the public housing regime and making effectively privatizing it and making it um a candidate for households up to 80% of AMI as the administrator administrator said, but a breadth and depth of of incomes will be served.

So again, existing tenants will not be adversely affected.

They may have to move temporarily temporarily because we may have you know destroy their units, but um you know they would like they would have a choice to move back into their unit or to move into a different unit, you know.

And so uh this is you know, this is the start of a process as the administrator uh alluded to.

And you know, we take this position seriously because we have been collaborating with this administration on a vision of uh positive change at the doorstop, uh the doorstep of this city.

So uh we're we're not we're not we want to make sure that we maximize the uh the investment we make on the per unit basis.

So if you've seen other rehabs of this ilk, not everyone is is so fortunate as to be able to put in 200,000 a unit.

This is we've learned over time that we need to make this meaningful investment.

Well, where I guess payments in Louis is three percent of income.

Where did that number come from?

Umctionally, it was a byproduct of uh uh understanding what the site is currently generating and putting this site in a position, this portion of the property and the entirety of the property to increase tax collections for the city as a whole.

But we're only dealing with one part of it.

That's correct.

So I to get to your point, uh, hopefully this is the point you're trying to make.

So the HMFA, it's not our normal tax pilot structure.

It actually starts below the 10% mark.

But then there's the other phases which Mr.

Cortell's alluding to, which is the front of the site along State Street.

That is separate and apart with separate financial agreements that um depending on the funding source will run a more traditional possible, you know, tax uh, you know, pilot or bayman or uh you've required us to consider uh you know the relative diversity of the city.

And so um our goal, our collective goal, the conversation is to assure that the site has a mixed product offering, uh, one that serves populations at various rental levels.

And so what he's hinting at is that future phases are intended to embrace this sort of evolution and offer, you know, higher higher rent units, which would then turn around and have generate higher pilot payments.

So it's a it's intended to be a comprehensive plan.

Um elements that are not addressed by this is uh that uh uh we're we're we're trying to maintain um this the site's collections for the city.

So the city's not taking any reduction in collections, but we're also taking back some of the responsibilities.

So the property going forward will maintain security for itself and privatize the trash service of the burden no longer sits with the city.

So taking the loan, the pilot is probably uh and not telling the full story that considerations for some of those other obligations that we expect to take on are part of the picture, too.

And the lease of the land is file loan, how many years?

It's it's effectively structured as a forever lease because uh in order to make this work for tax credit purposes, it has to be a transfer of title for federal tax credits.

So I mean it's yeah, I think it's it has the potential of being 99 years, but it's I think it's 50 years with an extension.

And the restrictions stay forever with the with the ground lease call it, you know, in terms of affordable housing.

Theoretically, I mean the housing authority has prioritized the maintenance of affordable housing, so um, it is their expectation that the regulatory regime would be perpetuated in some form.

I mean, uh it seems like so enduring a set of requirements.

I don't know what what the future long-term future will hold, but they on you know that the tax credits themselves have a have a period of compliance, right?

And extended to a minimum of 30 years, and it will keep going based on uh the housing authorities kind of targeted goal of maintaining affordability.

So I missed that.

So my point where I'm going is I know can it be 20 years or 30 years.

Um can all this affordable stuff go away and this becomes a market rate complex.

Uh it is unlikely in this instance because of the involvement of the housing authority on a normal property.

There is this possibility that at the end of the 30-year comp uh extended use period, it could go away.

Uh I I don't I don't see that happening under these circumstances, but I you know we come to this uh trying to pursue this in an engagement of the partnership with you guys and the housing authority, and you know, I don't know what what the future holds, but I expect that we need to we need to buttress this facility for the next 30 years so the affordable housing needs of this population are met, but we're also enabling new populations who who aren't necessarily public housing tenants to use these units.

Okay, thank you.

No problem councilman Mayer.

Um the percentage of units that are affordable again, 100%.

The $600,000 a unit sounds like a lot.

Why is there a rehab versus a knockdown?

Right.

So I I think um he tried to explain that before.

So it's really a more about 200,000 a unit is the reason right because there's like uh implications for the land and the purchase of the land, and that's why the numbers look higher than they really are.

And just just so we're clear the the pilot payment for this this proposal for these four sites is more than what we're currently getting for the entire site, and then ultimately, depending on the other buildings and those, there'll be significant increases from there, right?

So just so you kind of get a baseline.

The reason that the numbers are the way they are is because the whole rear section is 100% affordable for those 30 years.

And I would agree with Mr.

Quartell, the fact that there's involvement with the housing authority.

Um for some of the council members that might have been here at that time, that was already done by the housing authority under Victor Sarillo when they did the senior houses.

All the senior housing that is currently senior housing, um did a similar program where they went into a voucher program and they sold it.

The best way they sold it is like a refinance of it, but it kind of worked in a similar vein where they used that money, the equity of that income to infuse it back into the building to rehabilitate the unit.

So it's a rehabilitation model where we're looking at a new construction model for the front of the state.

But again, that's not what we're here, but just to give you an idea of what's to come and kind of how those tax implications will be.

And I think we're expecting at least for at least 40 years, 30 years for the term of this pilot to remain 100% affordable.

Yes, at least, but it typically extends longer than that because of the involvement of the housing authorities.

Can I get some of this McClellan?

Is there these buildings being taken down?

No, not the four buildings, they're being fully gutted rehabbed.

And there's exterior repointing and windows and things that we talked about.

And what happens to the people living in these apartments today?

So depending on how the construction goes, they may be working on units that are vacant, and then asking people that want to stay to move.

But before all that, there's a whole relocation plan that has to be approved by HUD that's then offered to all the tenants.

And then depending on who stays, who goes, there'll be a musical chairs for lack of a better expression for those that want to stay while they repair these things.

Council President, we held multiple town hall meetings here at the council chambers where residents were allowed to come and ask questions, but there were very clear presentations.

And they even have what is uh often referred to as a relocation manager, which like a project manager that is uh tasked with the responsibility of meeting which each family member, each of them are gonna be given vouchers, and they'll be able to choose whether or not they want to move somewhere and come back to the apartment.

They have first dibs, which is an easier way to describe it, to come back to the apartments, and as the business administrator described it, they can move to a vacant apartment as one, and they come back to it.

But it is it is very much the priority of the housing authorities, along with our administration and uh with our city council and those involved to ensure that every family understands their options and they are considered along with the process.

As to the question that was asked by Councilman Mayor, and I think um Councilman Monk alluded to it, and I believe we're concerned of this as well.

It would have been the desire to knock them all down.

I made that very clear.

And uh, Jonathan's excellent beyond his smiles, but he knows that uh my response will come when the project is done.

We we often discuss the need to ensure that it is significant, that it's not just some official rehab.

I think the business administrator again described it perfectly as he articulated to full gunning and ensuring that when the people come back, they see the change and that it is set up for success for the next 30 years and so on.

But each family member um or each individual resident that is in the unit will be given the option to come back or to take their voucher and free country, go wherever they can with their voucher if they so choose, and then some through housing.

Okay.

We have public hearing yet.

Yes, right now we are no, we're in public hearing, and the council has questions, which I'm entertaining before discussion.

What else uh can you can you share with us, Mayor?

Uh and I must tell you this is this is the real deal, huh?

I remember being on housing authority 30 years ago.

Yeah, that's when you started.

That's right.

That's when it's yeah, oh gosh.

Again, I want to reiterate because I think it's important.

We've had multiple town hall meetings.

We've had residents come and some have been uh tense, say least, and others have been uh much more productive as people understood what the process is.

It's it's been a real effort.

And I do want to commend Jonathan for being present at each of the meetings, including the executive director, the commissioners on board, the representatives from housing to ensure that the residents understand that it is a collective um commitment by government, by the developers, by the investors, by housing, to ensure that this project, and considering that it is a gateway of entrance to the city, is not just about aesthetics, it's about investing in the families.

The mixed income is purposely done to ensure that individuals are living in a in a concentration of low income, which that formula and as the business administrator shared.

I believe at the last council meeting has not shown to be successful.

So we do go ahead.

So, what do we do then, Mayor, when we've got the people to replace I'm living in public housing now?

I have to exit it for a year, whenever I come back.

How do we ensure that all the people coming back?

Which is a vast majority of people, period, don't all reflect one economic status.

Well, that's that's that's it makes sense.

Yes, and like right.

So uh, as Mr.

Cortell was stating, and I don't want to lose that uh as part of the conversation.

There is a range that is required of the HMFA different AMIs.

Uh so what happens?

So, what happens if that range and remember clearly what you had said and appreciated tremendously, but what happens if practically everybody who wants to come back comes back, and all of the people coming back are at the same economic income level.

One, we get much better units before that's what we have now.

That's what we have now.

And uh they end up having much better units, and hopefully the children grow up in an environment where they see greater opportunities, and the next generation does better, and they get access to more income, more job, and then in the future, what was alluded to with a mixed income, they may be living alongside someone that would inspire them to say, hey, this individual is going to college, I'm going to college, or this person started a business, and perhaps my son or my daughter, I can work there.

Ideally, that would be the case.

Um obviously we we cannot 100% predict what will happen, but I think the investment in the area, the approach being taken will go a long way to let families know that their income subsidized housing shouldn't mean substandard living.

That we are going to invest in in that project and provide opportunities for growth.

And sometimes that's just with a change of environment.

And I think that will be called there.

And there's there's uh checks and balances through that approved relocation plan from HUD for making those accommodations.

Yeah, this is vetted by multiple layers, not just like the city and the housing authority, the HMFA, the federal government, like but to your point, and I think it's a good point, but it's important that we share what would be the alternative.

I mean, if we're investing there where people live, we want to let them know you have the right to come back.

No, I uh each one of them that leaves, and I think you you have shared that in the past before it's extremely important that everyone knows they're not being kicked out so we can make something nice and then they don't get access to it again.

But there is a plan moving forward to ensure that there are opportunities for workforce for moderate for income that is mixed, yeah.

Uh without taking away from them.

And also not one of the problems that I remember years ago, and perhaps it's no longer German today, but rewarding people for intergenerational occupancy of something that was never meant for intergenerational.

Um are we condoning promoting a culture which is antithetical to what it is that we're trying to accomplish?

That's uh much deeper conversation.

No, no, it's a it's a fair conversation.

I don't know where it goes in the future, but uh council president.

I remember a few months ago we heard that there was going to be a sort of end to uh housing um from this administration, and there were rumors that you would get two years to come off and you're gone.

We know that that approach to say it's callous and cruel would be an understatement.

Of course, we want to encourage individuals to not want to live there and pass it on to the next generation in terms of um depending on finance.

We we want to see upward economic and social mobility.

We want we want you to go to college.

We we want you to get a better job and not have to live there.

Uh when when the business administrator said a holistic approach, bear with me now.

I'll try to wrap up quick.

I remember when we talked about why it was important for us to redo Dundiyada.

Why we went after over 12 million dollars, why we wanted to give the downtown area this beautiful park in front of the river so that kids wouldn't grow up just staring at brick and mortar because we believe that when you're exposed to something better, it opens up the possibilities, not just the actual ones, but the intangible ones, what your mind can conceive what you think, what you can dream of for many.

The idea of nature may inspire you to think that there's something else in this world, and not to wax too poetic.

The idea that we would invest there, that there would be mixed income, that they would see something different and just break and mortar there.

Maybe there's a commercial component and you're working there on the first floor, then maybe some of the investments, whether it's just bushes and trees and seeing more green will will change your mentality to say I I liked the way this looked when I grew up and I want more.

I want to buy a house, I want to move somewhere else.

That's how I would respond to it.

That though we cannot guarantee it.

We believe that data has shown that the impact of where you live and and how you perceive it directly, or at least data again, I'll reiterate correlation between whether or not you move up, whether you get a better education, get a better job, and that's the best that we can do.

Last note on this and open up discussion more, but I don't remember whether I was in the housing authority.

Um my colleagues shot me down immediately for lots of reasons.

Most of them bad, but nonetheless.

Okay.

Members of the council.

Yes, I've got councilman.

Don't get council president.

I'll yield to the council.

I'll yield to the council.

Go ahead, councilman.

Love you can't.

I want to say thank you to everyone for the dialogue.

And mayor, I I know how intense you are um and hands on with this project.

Well, the question I have is have we had any uh citizens or residents on any of the committees or sat in on a development of this plan?

Um the reason why I asked is that um they they they provide a insight that many of us probably wouldn't even have.

So I I'm just wondering if if we had any uh one or few residents um in this planning stage and or in the um informational stage of the project.

I know I spoke about town hall meetings, but there was also the inclusion of input from the residents with uh I believe there were surveys that went out, there was information that housing are now working alongside with uh the developers and the investors.

So yes, there was uh uh there was multiple opportunities throughout this process for residents to share input uh to definitely share the concerns to respond to uh information that they were receiving, sometimes inaccurate information from more so directly from housing.

But again, I think that we had at least four years and and over there at um at Aspen Place, as well as we did tours, went door to door.

I mean, one time we were on the roof um having a meeting up there, that was one of the more exciting meetings.

So, yes, councilman, yes, there has, but what what we can do, of course, is in uh through the business administrator um reach out to the housing um director, the executive director, just to share some information in regards to the residents' involvement that we could present to the next council meeting so they are aware.

I thank you so much for that, Mayor.

Um, because I I think that's that's a crucial part of this, right?

Because I'm being a little uh redundant because it has been said in terms of the process and how these vouchers are gonna work.

There's a lot of garbage out there, and we need to be as transparent and as fair to folks who oh one, this is a a very new process to many of us and and them as well.

So I I would just like and you know that as much information and input from the residents as possible.

And I thank you, I I see you have done so.

Thank you, councilman.

Councilman, thank you, Council President.

Um, so with this pilot, is this similar in Case Halloween?

Is what is happening with um like the NYCHA in New York, what they're doing with their um with the housing is that similar, but they're going in, we haven't, people moving out, and then bringing it back, but also the managing company cut pretty much still owns the land.

The managing company will man maintain the day to day is type the same way this is going to be managed.

Yeah, very, very similar.

Yeah, it's very similar.

I just don't like to compare us to the case, but yeah, it's it's different.

Yeah, Mr.

Mr.

So again to clarify that housing will be dealing with the vouchers, yes, and then they're dealing with the actual property.

Okay.

Okay, and how long as people are um moving out, how long will they be out for?

Is there a time frame six months, a year?

Um how quick is, I mean, I've seen cases where a month or two, but took longer.

Yeah, it's not it's not as long as all that.

I I think it will ultimately depend on the final scope of work we we select, but um we've been talking about two to four weeks at the longest, okay, for the for the person's displacement.

And what we've been doing, by the way, is displacement is only to a hospitality setup that we might provide on on premises.

So functionally a unit, a restored unit will be made available to that population.

So they uh they move into what was previously a vacant that's now been restored, and then while they're in this hospitality suite, their unit is renovated, and so they can then move back.

So they're not they're not you know lost at sea during that period, they're simply in a different unit.

Um we have done some off-site hoteling, but you know, it'll it'll depend, and we would we we spend a lot of time uh focus on communication because this is disarming.

This can be uh unsettling, and we want to we want it to be as painless as possible because we want them to be an advocate for the success of the building, and then the building will endure.

Okay, okay, thank you.

Why don't you if you wouldn't mind Jonathan?

Why don't you just say where you are?

I think we're going to.

Oh, okay.

Councilman uh, please.

Wearing another hat, I've climbed those stairs because of the elevators being out of service.

And I can only imagine how terrible it is for the residents having two elevators out of service.

Tell me those elevators are getting modernized, absolutely.

Yeah, two brand new elevators.

I I don't I don't I don't want to like speak out of turn because I'm not sure I have a handle on the details, but we've we've done this enough to know that the elevators are like the heartbeat of the building.

So you can't have uh elevators that don't function or that are inclined to go out.

The building is underserved, so we will be modernizing the elevators to improve speed and quality.

So it's a core, it's a core tenant of the scope, no question.

Thank you.

No problem.

Um how about in terms of vandalism or everything's going on, Jonathan?

How does that work?

Uh how do we inhibit vandalism?

How do we uh some it's very hard to compete with what the mayor was saying, but but if I can uh highlight what he said a long time ago, by the way.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so I'll give up.

I'll I'll just say that some portion of pride of place is going to offset some of that.

We think that um vandalism will be reduced by the care with which we deliver the improved product and then the expectations that we communicate to the residents.

So uh the management team that will be in place, some portion of which will have learned from the experience of the existing housing authority staff will be targeting the issues that have been issues of the past and creating impediments to any problems that you have seen over time.

And I think we will also be in a position to exercise more discretion with where tolerance should be should be should be short uh shortened, right?

If if there is a repeat offender uh that that won't be tolerated and and it will be addressed.

Um of the comments earlier, and maybe this just speaks to something you said, councilman, is that um uh tenants will be subject to annual leases, and those leases will have um adjustments based on what the administrator referred to as the AMI.

So the AMI is adjusted from year to year.

Tenants will be subject to rent increases over time, which isn't really the case now in the public housing establishment, right?

But the kind of the increases are moderated.

Um there's no disincentive for the tenant to grow their income.

In fact, it's encouraged.

I say this with confidence in part because I think the tax credit program has one been one of the most effective devices for the development of affordable housing, whether it's the you know, the market rate buildings in Manhattan that have affordable set-asides, those affordable set-asides are are made possible by a tax abatement and by the tax credits that we're using as well.

So, councilwoman, you said something about a NYCHA project.

Some portion of this same formula, the math is is employing some of the same logic that's being used on the affordable components of those market rate town uh towers on Sixth Avenue, for example.

So we expect uh limitations on the transfers of the leases because named parties on the leases have to be counted towards the household size, and each of the uh uh households fit the units subject to a tax credit regulatory agreement.

So there will be parameters that are more strict than the ones that are in place on the public housing, potentially addressing some of your concerns about long-term.

Yeah, but just to be clear, those increases are limited by HUD.

Yes, and the annual adjustments.

So, right, so I just want to just for the record after all we've been through, I want to file, yes, yes.

Yeah, this is this is handled those increases and the amount of that's all handled by HUD that gives us the numbers that we have to abide by.

So this is not uh uh just open the the faucets.

So this is not uh just open the faucets, he has to follow whatever HUD uh requirements.

I can talk about that, Council President.

I did I do want to add because you shared about addressing existing issues.

John thing I had to shared they haven't had any significant uh rehabs for over 30 years.

Just to remind some who may be watching online, those who aren't familiar, some of the complaints that we have had in the years, doors that don't close, security locks that are never functioning, individuals who come in and out unchecked.

I know that there was a similar project done in one of our neighboring municipalities, largest one is the north, where one of the specific properties as they were looking at it, the design strategically considered what aspects of it were making it more conducive for individuals to avoid or stay in areas that perhaps you would want to decrease or you wouldn't want that.

I know that we've had conversations about what it will look like, how it will be managed, and how the design will impact that.

So I think that speaks directly some of the concerns, not only vandalism, but um of uh real worries of families in terms of their children and safety and when they're engaged in recreation and coming home after school, and I know all of this will be taken into consideration in terms of the rehab and the gutting of the units individually, which I think it's important that that that gets highlighted as well that there are vacant units that they will begin with, and then obviously in a pragmatic approach, go now that we have a vacant unit that has been rehab, you can go in there because I think perhaps the perception might be, or the understanding is some that it's fully gutted all at the same time, and everyone has to go.

So going piece by piece, they would uh address that, right?

My last question, I I shouldn't say I I think I have my last question.

Tell me about the Trump effect.

What I mean by the question is um most of us would agree whether we are in favor of the president's policies or not, that he is the best peculiar, but he changes his mind maybe several hundred times a day on any given subject.

Is it possible that he wakes up tomorrow morning?

God willing, he wakes up tomorrow morning.

Well, um and he changes his mind in terms of what HUD does and how it does it, and we're gonna get out of this affordable housing business because we should be pouring all of our money into making more aircraft carriers because we need one or two.

Unfortunately, I think you answered your own question.

Um anything is possible.

Um is there anything that we've done or need to do or should do to make sure that we don't have that scenario?

My impression is that this uh represents a policy that uh has general we're implementing a program that has general support.

Um that uh HUD does has been changing policies on on the daily.

We've gotten an update on policy statements, you know, just yesterday.

But I think that um the formula that we have laid out here is one that um is being encouraged by this HUD, um as well as its predecessors, and you know, the big beautiful bill expanded the credit program.

Yes, it had a negative effect on the amount of credits, so the the it made too many credits available, so the price of the credits is coming down, natural supply and demand.

So policy changes made have both intended and unintended consequences.

I believe that this program is supported by and would be sustained by the policies of this administration.

But as you said, I can't, nobody can predict.

As you stated Mercurio, I think that's the key word, but um there's a green light right now, and we can move forward, and that we've seen some uh some positive response from this administration's heart with this project, and I think the mixed income, the uh the plan itself, as Jonathan already articulated, has been well received.

So that's what we're trying to move forward.

Councilman Mark, your light?

Yeah, thank you.

And then I want to try to open this up to uh other people besides the government lobby.

Um how do we guarantee that the reason why you have invested so much time and effort into this to improve the housing of the people that live in Spear Village, right?

There are developers and there are developers, right?

Um you could build an apartment with a solid door, you can build an apartment with a hollow door.

Okay, a hollow door doesn't take long before it's kicked in and has holes in it, right?

So once we sign once we sign an agreement here for the next 30, 40 or 50 years, like with no cloud loans to last, but a long time, right?

And you get all your pilots and you get everything.

What incentive is there for you to build a project that's going to maintain the look and the feel what we're trying to accomplish here, then in five years, be back to where we where we are today.

Obviously, these buildings are old.

I don't know if we'll ever get back to where we are, but we're not going to accomplish with all the effort and goals.

So what is in place the negotiations with this developer?

Okay, he might be a nice guy, great smile and everything, right?

But the bottom line is we're all human beings and we all like making money, and we all like making more money, okay.

So the difference between a project that's really solid, built for the future, built with this in mind to that in terms of the maintenance, the type of carpet.

You can put down carpet that's ten dollars a square foot, not $30 a square foot, whatever it is in terms of how long it lasts, what it's gonna look like could make a difference, you know, to a developer could be millions of dollars of money in his pocket.

What is in place to guarantee that what the goal here is is actually going to play out.

I mean, these are numbers, numbers don't talk about quality, yeah.

So if we could just address that, please understood.

But what I was gonna say is there's this in no way that we have a hundred percent guarantee.

There are requirements that they have to meet, their construction codes, their inspections, but allow me to uh elaborate a little bit more as government, it's our responsibility to determine whether uh partner, and I refer to them as that a partner with the city has the best interests in mind of our residents, aligns with our vision, and of course, none of us are naive enough to think they're not in it to make a profit.

Everyone is so we look at history, as Jonathan had shared previous projects.

We understand that to a certain extent they need this project to be a positive one because they want to do more.

I don't imagine this will be the last one.

They want to do this project and they're done in the state.

We have some, I'll try to be uh humble in the description, some rather influential officials from the state and locally, some that know this business and know the numbers and know exactly how these projects should end up.

In case anyone's missing it, I'm talking about a 70 minute councilman monk, planner, councilman mayor, councilwoman mellow, councilman Garcia, councilwoman Montaniaz, and councilman love and myself.

This isn't uh an approval, and then we all walk away.

I mean Jonathan can share how many meetings we've had, some of them very tense in our conference room, some of them including representatives from housing, some with residents, and we've stayed very late into the evening until every single person has been heard.

So outside of just the uh obvious safeguards of uh inspections and code regulations and requirements, it's that we are all involved in this, and we're gonna be involved in it every step of the way.

So it I'm I'm not sure if you're suggesting something, but I want you uh to note that we we did do our due diligence.

There was a visit on a similar project with them in Newark to inspect it to consider it, to see how it's working, not just a year after, the years after that's why I refer to certain safety measures that sometimes come by design.

Those are strategic design when you're developing, you can sometimes create conditions that invite elements of uh undesirable elements to come and create issues, and then there's designs that can deter that.

I think all of that is being put together, but in terms of structurally sound construction and ensuring that safety concerns are addressed, they have to.

Um however, I I will say that you know government is government, right?

We all wear different hats, right?

I don't know when in city hall.

Yeah, I don't mean to in any way, but by the way, we will have our specialty, right?

And there are people that specialize in terms of writing up a quality, a spec report on development.

Like if you go to a typical development, there's a what's it called?

AI form AIA, what's it called?

That form.

Yeah, form, right?

That that specifies exactly the quality of everything that's going to be used by a developer.

You know, it's there's a difference.

When you start, you know, like the the you change the quality of the door, you change the quality of the molding, you change the quality of the countertop.

Okay.

You change any little thing, the amount of years of what it's gonna look like, right?

And I I don't know like who uh I'll be a lot more comfortable knowing, yeah, that the city has a consultant, right?

That went through the details of the building that we're giving here, you know.

It's a it's a beautiful I I get the benefit where it is for the city.

I I get that.

There's also benefit you're not doing it for free, you're not running a charity organization, right?

And granted, you deserve it, right?

But when someone's making millions and millions of dollars of profit, one that little change is another million dollars.

Why?

Why shouldn't they?

But I would I mean if I didn't have anyone writing, unlike the different project donor.

I'm I'm as much as I love.

I need you both have so much important things to say.

If one could say no, no, it's an important question.

I just want to say, unlike other projects, the they're doing this with housing.

Housing is going with them every step of the way, so they have to keep an eye on it.

They don't get to deviate and cut corners and tell housing, don't worry about it.

Uh understood.

So the fact we have code, code does not tell you what type of door you have to have.

No, but they make sure the door is put in correctly.

So what you have is there's multiple layers.

I can't stress this enough.

It is you are correct.

Everybody has their specialty.

There's like 50 different specialties that have to review this before it gets approved.

And I'm I'm glad you brought the A1A.

They can't get release of funds into HUD reviews that reimbursement for that portion and make sure it complies with what it is that they're submitting.

So there besides our code that's going to make sure it's built correctly.

Not to mention, don't worry about the apartment doors because the UCC requires them to be solid and can be hollow, so that's a requirement.

That's why when he was saying, I was like, I gotta tell them that, right?

So besides those, you also have the requirements of the funding source that's gonna analyze and review every single dollar.

And by the way, and I've been there, and I know you might have been there too, where if the nail isn't the right nail that they said that was in the A1A, they're like, we're not paying for that nail.

You said it was gonna be this nail, and that's why I'm that's what I'm paying for.

I'm being a little extra.

We also have their track record to look upon.

Well, that well, that's where the mayor started.

You can provide building CRA, you can swallow anything.

Yeah, East Orange.

Yeah, I mean, I'm just I I think uh councilman, some of the other points they're both making, but implicitly, um uh HMFA has reviewed our our plans on all of these projects and reviewed them diligently for the quality of the product, just as you suggest.

We we take on through this tax credit program a investor who is the limited partner in the ownership, and they have uh ongoing monitoring that they will do.

In fact, I'm we have a building in orange, and I'm being sort of tortured on that where they want to remove a street tree because it is a tripping hazard.

Uh street tree.

It's probably more beneficial than not, but there's to the administrators uh credit, there's there's an enormous amount of uh it takes a village to get these deals done, and there will be a multiple eyes on this, so it's not the the obligation will not simply be on the city.

Furthermore, some of the structure of these deals necessitates a uh deferral of some portion of the fee that you've called out, and the expectation is that that fee has to be collected over 15 years.

So the assumption that we would make is that we are in it to assure the success of the building for not today, not tomorrow, but we're motivated to assure the collection of the deferred fee over that 15-year period.

And and finally, we've done this enough.

I mean, look, uh I I want to believe that I can accomplish this project for the mayor, for the administrator, for you by myself, but I bring to the to bear a robust development concern with 400 people, and the expectation is that they have they they all want to tell you about all the mistakes that can be made.

Wolf you've been patiently sitting and I know you want to escape on the I appreciate that very much council president I want to ask the council as much as we have not been receiving any money or any tax revenue from these 256 units to date it seems to me I'm sure it occurs to you as well that this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for the city the city doesn't have many assets to auction off to sell off to lease off it sounds like there are other projects like this that are getting higher tech pilot payments this project is in an opportunity zone this project is getting seller financing this project is getting liech credits this is getting tax credits it seems to me not only that for every one dollar invested in this project this developer is receiving back one dollar in loans from the seller and one dollar in tax credits that's two dollars back for every one dollar invested three percent pilot is takes that means it's gonna take this developer 10 days of collecting rent of that year to pay taxes the average multifamily in Passaic it takes you a month I'm sorry it takes you a month to pay back taxes a $1500 rent on 10 units has an average of 1500 in taxes on a two family house in PSA it takes you a hundred and nine days in collections to pay your property taxes you have an average of 4400 in rent a month on a two family and you have an average of 1600 in taxes so 109 days so this developer is they take him 10% of the time of a two family house to pay his tax bill why am I saying a tax bill Mr Fernandez mentioned a record study a record study says that up to 60 students come to public school in low tech housing for every 100 units if they're proposing 400 units that's 240 students that's a cost of four to five million dollars based on how much it costs in Passaic to educate students we know low income this police department's very busy with EMS is busy with there's a lot of social services I'm asking the city this developer sounds like he knows what he's doing and we're learning what he's doing do we really need him today I'm sure you can work with him do you need to give away this asset for the next 30 years at 3% one more point there's something called a break even point the break even point in business is where the costs start stop and the revenue starts creating income so if you have a low income project in Louisiana collecting $600 in rent compared to a project in New Jersey collecting $2200 rent your refrigerator is the same cost nationwide that means in Louisiana you're gonna have to take one month's rent to replace that refrigerator in New Jersey you're gonna replace the refrigerator with the cost of 10 days rent this developer as soon as he starts raising rents his income is going to far exceed the city's income meaning to say on day one he might be break he might be even he might be breaking even though he'll be making money but as his rents go up his net income his percentage percentage of rent that goes towards his income exponentially increases while the city is still collecting only three percent of his rent I'm asking the city again can you collect 10% can you have to give them a 30 years I don't mean to one up on the city but the city mentions five year payment or 30 year payment the fact of the matter is that the city can give a seven year tax pilot they can give a 17 year tax pilot how much does this developer need and how much does developer want you I'm sorry one more point I forgot to mention while the city is not making money on this development today this development I'm sorry thank you.

Mr.

Fernandez why a pilot of 20 years 20 years is it's a 30 year pilot but it's it's it's developed based on the funding source.

It's a 30-year pilot, but it's it's it's developed based on the funding source.

So as I stated originally, the numbers are guided through the HMFA financing and the numbers that they're looking for, which are typically under 6%.

And we can't so there were a lot of assumptions made in those statements that cannot be used under this product.

It's 100% affordable.

It's an HMFA uh low income, that's like tech is low-income housing tax credits that are used um for the project, as well as we are looking for the future investment, which is part of the project of the other phases that require additional funding that will not be included in the same type of financing.

So again, going back to our point of a holistic project, this is phase one.

That's why I started with that of an overall project that's going to infuse additional dollars in different ways that will not qualify for this.

It's a an overall kind of um approach that's going to require that.

And I think you've heard for quite some time now how the structure it's a layered structure.

So the numbers you're looking at isn't exactly a one-year deal.

It could be paid back from 15 years.

So that there's multiple layers, not to mention that we also need it to be viable enough to lead to the construction of the other phases, which will infuse much greater tax, much more open and greater taxable uh interest, which is kind of the long-term tax abatement law versus how it's guided under HMFA, which does not follow the same structure, it has to be below that structure.

Just as a mic curiosity, Victor Hulansky's involved in this, yeah.

He is the his firm is the attorneys representing him.

They brought a representative, Mr.

Corey Klein from his office from Sills Cummins and Gross.

Councilman.

Is there a time of essence here?

So we're not seeing the holistic picture.

Is there like a time of essence here?

Like sounding the holistic portion.

That is correct.

So right now they need to get into that pipeline for HMFA financing.

So right now they require this document so he can be put into the pipeline for the funding.

So that'll get them the rehab of that component, and then you can leverage that rehab off in the other units and the other construction that they're doing.

When do we expect to see the rest of this project phase?

So my understanding, and Jonathan can represent if I'm wrong, you're looking at construction sometime next year, right?

Uh for the for the rehab.

Yes, the goal is honestly the goal is to try to get to the financing closing this year so that we can implement the rehab as soon as possible.

Uh you know, I would have MFA process, so they know the length of time.

Sure.

So so the approval of the pilot enables a what is called a financing authorization by the HMFA.

Um, we are also subject to HUD timeline.

So HUD is waiting for this in order to sort of affirm what they've called a concept call and then a financing plan with approvals by HMFA and HUD, and then engagements by banks who will buy the credits and part of part of the pilot structures dictated to by the tax credit investor who wants some relative security about the schedule for as long as they're in the deals.

The credit investors in for at least 15 years.

So they're looking for no less than a 15-year pilot.

Um the goal is to get to the rehab done uh by the end of the year, and then follow you know, say six to twelve months later with the new construction on what is currently the office building.

If the administration, if the administrator feels it's appropriate, I would suggest that we, you know, uh before the end of this calendar year, if not before the end of the summer, we discuss more about the new construction and uh and its attributes.

So we refer to new construction, you're talking about phase two of this phase phase.

Phase two is contemplated as the redevelopment of the office.

Two buildings on state street.

That would be theoretically phase three.

So when do we get to see that?

Um I I will work uh in coordination.

I'll tell you what, like that yeah, you're gonna go through this process now till next year.

All of a sudden we're gonna, you know, you're going through this process, and then we're gonna see the state.

So the discussions we're having is that as they're doing the rehab, we're working on site plans for the set the other phases, right?

Which could be two different phases or a blurred phase two, right?

Yep where they're gonna be preparing so the work isn't stopping on phase two and three, it's just in development phase, right?

So they got to get through this first phase, and then they're working on site plans for the other phases, and then they have to go out and finance those other phases.

So I can't assume, and uh the timelines really on you based on what your preparation is, but I can't see fit the other phase starting till the year after that at least, right?

Well, right.

I mean, I'm also uh we're interested in, as I said earlier, um, creating a more uh diverse income mix over the overall, and the state is enabling us in part to consider uh workforce housing banned, and there is a fund being raised that would be available statewide, and we'd like to get into the queue for that.

Right.

So uh honestly, I'm looking funding related.

I'm looking at the administrator in part because I I don't want to get ahead of him, but we haven't we're eager to you know discuss the next phase too.

So I don't if you want to have a conversation at a future meeting, I'm happy to come back and make a presentation.

I mean, yeah, right now we haven't got so basically he's preparing for the phases, and we had a conversation about meeting up to discuss those future phases so that we're talking about the next biggest greatest thing, but like the sooner we see it, I think the happier the I don't want I don't want to miss the point of what Jonathan said that there is funding out there, so a lot of it's also guided by the funding, right?

So he wants to get in that queue as soon as possible, which would then require him to speed up the process on the other phases to get in the pipeline because you know, just like low income housing tax credits are one of the most competitive financing options, you want to make sure you're competitive and get in there sooner rather than later.

But again, we're also beholden to their timelines and when they release the funds so that then he can start on the other phases.

What I can tell you from an administrative perspective was that we're ready to accept those proposals at any time that they're prepared.

So uh Jonathan had discussed having a site plan prepared for us to look it over before he submits the other phases, right?

Because of everything the mayor just said and all the discussions we had here and what he heard early this evening, he wants to make sure that that site plan is exactly the vision that the mayor's been talking about.

And in regards to time being of the essence, I mean the the council president referred to the Trump effect.

We've heard words that this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, and of course, we can sit and speculate how 10% of 50% of the 80% of the 100% of the 200% divided by pi and multiplied by three, because I can grab the sky as well and make a presentation.

Specifically, what we're discussing right now is whether or not this is a worthwhile project, whether we've done our due diligence, whether we've seen projects done in the past and seen the positive impact, whether there's gonna be oversight based on the funding source, based on regulations and code, and whether or not these families are gonna get an opportunity to see significant rehab and opportunities to develop an area that has and I know that um Jonathan said underserved, and that housing has done a good job of managing, but I'll be a little more blunt.

I think that there are a lot of opportunities now to make a real impact.

I think that it is the desire of every member of this governing body, because I've had conversations with all of you to provide better for our residents, and this is a real opportunity.

And I don't know what happens with this administration.

I think the council president was very poignant when he shared that profound.

You're right, things could change a year from now.

But right now it seems like everything is lined up.

And if we sit around wondering, can we do better?

Can we get better and lose out on opportunity to make this change?

I don't think it would be worth it.

That's my two cents.

If you divide it by five percent, it would be less than that.

Yeah, thank you, Council President.

I do have a question.

Is there any legal commitment that the city gave for the rest of the parcel?

I mean, you know, it's been a great presentation.

Sounds like you have a great company, but I don't know, maybe there's someone with even a bigger smile out there for the next piece of the next parcel.

I can't imagine.

Uh the concept has uniformly been a uh redevelopment agreement that has uh carrots and sticks, and the sticks will induce us uh to deliver this the the next phase as part of a follow-up on the rehab.

Yeah, so it's already in the agreements.

So if it's in the agreements already, what negotiating powers do we have?

Well, we spoke about five this piece is a three percent, but we'll have the you know the the chariot on the top, right?

The cream will come on the next few parcels are all negotiated.

So how can we negotiate if we already made a commitment?

What commitment?

You haven't made a commitment to the second third phase.

There's no commitment for the other phases.

No, the only commitment is that he has to construct the other phases.

You you have um uh the administrator has tried to focus this conversation on the rehab because that's really what's on the table right now, and separately he has induced his attorneys to include carrots and sticks into these in these legal documents that induce us to follow through and come back to you effectively.

We can't get to the next financing without coming back to you at other time.

There's no other pilot whatsoever.

You're probably committed to this so they're the designated redevelopers.

So as you're uh as you know, once you're designated a redeveloper, there and and in this case, they weren't just designated a redeveloper by us, they were first vetted and designated a redeveloper by the housing authority and went through all that rigmarole and then was brought to us and we then designate.

Okay, he's in the process.

Okay, thank you.

No, is there anyone else who would like who would like to address the council, please?

You may ask one more question.

I would ask you to be germane and limited.

Okay, thank you.

Uh to Councilman Terrence Love, I just want to say the housing authority is a government entity, and these are private investors.

I'm not saying anyone deserves to be in a public housing space if they're not entitled, but there is no question in my mind and in your mind that they will be much more efficient and scrutinizing of inconsistencies in people's income and habitation status.

I also want to ask the city.

This was a developer that you chose.

How many other developers did you meet?

And the projects in Newark that you looked at.

What was the rate of the tax pilot over there?

Was it also only three percent?

And you said it has to be under 10%.

Does it have to be under 10%?

Could it be 9.9%?

Thank you.

Again, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity that the city is raising taxes because of their budgets and increasing costs.

And I ask you, do you need to rush in a three percent?

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Is there anyone else who wishes to address the council on this issue and this issue only lights?

Move to club.

Second.

Roll call, please to close public.

Councilman Monk?

Yes.

Councilman Love Councilman Mellow?

Yes.

Councilman Mayer?

Yes.

Councilman Garcia?

Yes.

Councilman Colombon Tenez?

Yes.

Council President Shear.

Yes, that was to close.

Is there a motion to accept the ordinance, please?

Well, that's that motion and second to accept.

Councilman Monk?

Yes.

Councilman Love?

Councilman Mello?

Yes.

Councilman Mayer?

Yes.

Councilman Garcia?

Yes.

Councilman Colombon Tannez?

Yes.

Council President Sheer.

Yes, the ordinance passes.

Work to number four, please proposed orders 2530-26.

And then it's amending chapter 128 employer regulations to add article two worker payment protection and anti-coercion.

Is there a motion please to have a public hearing?

Motion second, thank you.

Councilman Monk?

Yes.

Councilman Love.

Councilman Mellow.

Yes.

Councilman Mayer.

Yes.

Councilman Garcia?

Yes.

Councilman Colombaniz?

Yes.

Council President Sheer.

Yes, thank you.

At this time, ladies and gentlemen, the council will be deliberating proposed ordinance 2530-26.

Is there anyone who would like to address the council on this item and this item only?

There's a motion and second to close public hearing.

Roll call.

Councilman Monk?

Yes.

Councilman Mellow?

Yes.

Councilman Mayer?

Yes.

Councilman Garcia?

Yes.

Councilman Colombon Danez?

Yes.

And Council President Shear.

Yes, thank you.

On the we open that was for public discussion.

We need to move on the one.

We're voting on the ordinance.

Yes, sir.

Yes.

Okay.

Uh is there a motion, please to accept?

Move it.

Second.

Motion and second to accept the ordinance.

Roll call.

Councilman Monk?

Yes.

Councilman Mellow.

Yes.

Councilman Mayor?

Yes.

Councilman Garcia?

Yes.

Councilman Colombon Tanes.

Yes.

And Council President Shea.

Thank you.

After communications remember numerous six on our agenda.

Items five through ten.

Are there any questions, please?

On five through ten.

Motion.

Second.

Second.

Thank you.

Roll call.

Councilman Monk.

Yes.

Councilman Love.

Yes.

Councilman Mellow.

Yes.

Councilman Mayor.

Yes.

Councilman Garcia.

Councilman Colombon Daniels?

Yes.

And Council President Sheer.

Yes, thank you.

All matters listed here under considered to be routine in nature.

Items 11 through 21.

Are there any questions, please?

On 11 through 21.

Senior licensure motion, please to accept.

Motion.

Second.

Second.

Roll call, please.

Councilman Monk.

Yes.

Councilman Love.

Councilman Mello.

Yes.

Councilman Mayer.

Yes.

Councilman Garcia.

Yes.

Councilman Colombon Tannez.

Yes.

And Council President Sheer.

Yes, thank you.

On 22 alone.

Is there a motion please to accept 22?

Motion and second on 22.

Councilman Monk.

Well, what's that?

23?

22.

Councilman Love.

Yes.

Councilman Mello.

Yes.

Councilman Mayor.

Yes.

Councilman Garcia.

Yes.

Councilman Colombon D's.

And Council President Sheer.

Yes, thank you.

We're up to resolutions.

Remember number seven on our agenda.

Resolution 23 authorizes a closed executive session member.

Mr.

Fernandez, do we need no council president?

Mr.

Mayor, sir?

None at this time.

Members of the council.

Very good.

If we could go one, please to 24 through 31.

Are there any questions, please?

On 24 through 31.

Councilman Mayor.

Um 26.

On 26, please.

Yes, sir.

Your question, sir.

The just under a million dollars is for planning and preparation for underneath that overpass and coming out of the six million dollars that we reapproved at the last meeting.

Yeah, this is uh actually done through the state.

They're the ones that are kind of dictating this.

Actually, we actually uh re-bid it, and this is the second, and the states require a we award it for the project.

But is it coming out of that six million?

Is this additional?

It's coming out of the six million, and uh number thirty page nine.

I think it's just the clerical order.

Um say that again, number thirty, page nine, number thirty page nine.

I think the dates may be oh the dates are off.

Yeah, okay.

So can we just correct the dates on the record and then we'll make that not move from there?

So there was this is what happened is it's a renewal, yeah.

Yeah, which was it's it's resolution number thirty.

It's expect page is the second page, and we're no changes my dates.

We've changed the council.

The term of this agreement shall begin January 1st, 2024.

So whatever it should be changed to so one is for 2024, then one is for 2025, and one is for 2026.

We're gonna assure that every resolution has the correct date.

One resolution for 2024, one for 2025, and one for 2026.

So the part the housing authority was delayed in giving us the resolutions, so we don't we don't execute a contract until they give us their resolution, so that's why we're doing three of them at once last year, not last year, in 2020.

Uh, two uh we did the 2023 with the 2022 2023.

So we'll make sure that every resolution has the correct year.

That is for 30 specific that's for 30.

30 is for Susie.

That's okay.

We can accept the the count the business administrators comment verbally and consider it to be effectively a change on the resolution.

Yes, yes, very good.

We will think so.

Um councilman mayor.

That's it.

Thank you.

I have another line, Councilman Monk.

Is that you?

Yeah, thank you.

No, I had a question also on 26.

The process, the bidding was done through the city, right?

How do you get uh a million bucks?

I just we've been it out more than once, by the way.

This was the best number, but there are no proposals attached.

Is there that what do you mean?

We're a list of proposal.

Uh no, did anyone else bid on this thing?

There's no attachment.

Usually usually get an attachment of who bid on this thing.

A million dollars for design and construction management of an audio.

That is correct.

Let me see.

But this is the wrong backup.

Yes, so we have a letter from DCA that says to move forward with it, but you're looking.

I know you're looking for the responses to the bid.

How many people have been on this thing?

Uh it's not on the resolution.

No.

Did you say in the resolution?

Let me see.

The city bid it four times, and only Collier submitted for both rounds of bidding.

So I just got that from the engineer.

So that's why they didn't put anybody else.

Four rounds of bidding in collaboration with the DCA, and that's why the letter is in the back.

May we have a motion please to accept items so move 31 with exceptions and changes being made to 30 as per our legal council.

There is a motion.

Is there a second, please?

Second.

Motion and second roll call, please.

On 24 through 31 is amended.

Councilman Monk?

Yes.

Councilman Love?

Yes.

Councilman Mayer?

Yes.

Councilman Garcia?

Yes.

Councilwoman Colomb Montañez?

Yes.

And Council President Sheer.

Yes, thank you.

Remember number eight on our agenda ordinance for introduction and first reading number 32.

Proposed ordinance amending the designation of restricted parking for disabled persons by nerd juicy license plate numbers.

The motion please to accept for set down for second final reading at our meeting of June 4.

Motion and second roll call, please.

Councilman Monk?

Yes.

Councilman Love.

Councilman Mayor.

Yes.

Councilman Garcia.

Yes.

Councilman Colombon Tanez?

Yes.

And Council President Sheer.

Yes, thank you.

Remember number nine, please.

Payment of bills.

Are there any questions on the bills?

Seeing none is the motion the bill to accept the bills, please.

Motion.

Second.

Motion and second royal call, please on the bills.

Councilman Monk?

Yes.

Councilman Love?

Yes.

Councilwoman Mello.

Councilman Mayor.

Yes.

Councilman Garcia.

Yes.

Councilman Colombon Tanes.

Yes.

And Council President Shares.

Yes, thank you.

Administrator's report, Mr.

Fernandez.

Not at this time.

You sure?

Well, we're actually going to lock you and Councilman Monk in a room together and see who comes down.

Uh Mayor's report.

Mr.

Mayor.

I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate our head of DPW, Mr.

Wafredo Bayes.

His son just graduated, I believe, today from law school.

Yesterday from law school.

I also wanted to share on the record that we recently invested in a study of random surveys, and we have found that nine out of ten people tend to at least disagree with one person.

Thank you.

And that's on a high note.

Ladies and gentlemen, uh this council appreciates the tremendous efforts as proved tonight by the administration and by the mayor and by Mr.

Fernandez.

And I don't think that uh we're occurred tonight with the approvals uh for spare village should go without proper notice and and regard.

This isn't indeed an historic day for the city of Passaic and proves to be even more so under the mayor's guidance and leadership.

Is there a motion to adjourn, please?

Motion call, please to adjourn.

Councilman Monk, yes, councilman love, yes, councilwoman mellow, yes, councilman mayor, yes, councilman Garcia, yes, councilman Colon Montañez, yes, Council President Sheer.

Yes, this meeting is adjourned.

Thank you.