OPENPUBLICA · PUBLIC MEETING RECORD
Record of Proceedings

Payson Town Council Regular Meeting - January 22, 2025

Town Council & Planning and Zoning — Wednesday, January 22, 2025
BodyPayson, Arizona
SessionTown Council & Planning and Zoning
DateWednesday, January 22, 2025
StatusFILED
Video Record
0:00 / 2:31:24

Transcript — Verbatim
0:24

Calling this meeting to order of the Pays and Common Council.

0:30

This is a regular meeting, January 22nd, 2025.

0:34

And these are the council chambers.

0:37

And I ask for Pastor Doug Schlemmer for the invocation.

0:54

There was a little song that we used to sing when I was growing up.

0:59

And it was called This Little Light of Mine.

1:02

Maybe some of you guys remember it.

1:05

I'm going to let it shine.

1:07

I'm going to let it shine.

1:08

Let it shine.

1:09

Let it shine.

1:12

Father, you said that you are the light of Christ.

1:19

And Father, we're going to let you shine today.

1:22

And our world today, Father, shine.

1:26

And our neighborhoods today, in our homes, and in our families, shine.

1:32

You have the light of Christ.

1:34

Let it shine in our pace and community.

1:38

Let it shine through your church, through their, you know, though there's darkness all around, let your light shine.

1:47

Let it shine through our civic leaders, through our marketplaces.

1:52

Let it shine in the young and the old.

1:57

How's your shining going?

2:00

Matthew 5, 16 says, Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

2:13

Notice it says, your good deeds.

2:17

They're seen and praise flows to God.

2:22

In Hebrews chapter six, verses seven and eight and through twelve, it says, ground that drinks the rain, which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God.

2:41

But if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being born, burned, cursed, and it ends up being burned.

2:53

Do you feel you are being tilled by God?

2:56

Pushed to surface, pushed to the surface, turned over.

3:00

This is God's way to bring us into being fruitful.

3:05

Fire destroys.

3:20

Though we are speaking in this way, for God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown towards his name.

3:31

And having ministered and still ministering to the saints.

3:36

And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promise.

3:56

God will not forget your work and love which you show him by helping his people.

4:04

Pray with me.

4:05

Father God, we can't say enough about the churches.

4:13

Father, fill your house using these churches.

4:18

Father, enlarge their borders and influence.

4:22

Bless them.

4:30

Build them into a holy living temple to you, the living God.

4:36

Allow them to be victorious, more than conquerors, and full of your spirit, unified and carrying your glory, your grace, and your truth.

4:49

Amen.

5:00

I pledge a leaders to the United States of America for which is another God.

5:16

Michelle, you have a roll call for us.

5:21

Thank you.

5:27

At this moment, I'd like to begin the call to the public with uh Mr.

5:31

Tom Dunning.

5:43

Hi, I'm Tom Dunning.

5:45

I'm a 21-year resident of Payson.

5:49

Mr.

5:50

Mayor, uh town council members and town staff.

5:54

I like to talk today about conflicts of interest.

6:00

Avoiding conflict of interest in government is important not just because government is responsible to the people, but also because even the appearance of conflict of interest is corrosive to the public trust.

6:20

When a government official bends over backward to assure their constituents that no advantage of any kind will accrue to them or any measure being decided on any measure being decided by government and recuses from being part of the decision, the public trust in government is bolstered and reinforced.

6:50

For this reason, it redounds to the government officers who go to the call of duty and beyond to make sure they are receiving no advantage of any kind.

7:08

Because I'm sorry, recusals are a clear remedy for any doubt.

7:16

For this reason, government officials who recuse themselves should be applauded for their integrity and their ethical service to the people they serve.

7:30

Thank you.

7:41

Isaac.

8:26

Unfortunately, you're not alone in this experience.

Discussion Breakdown — Share of Meeting
Affordable Housing████████████████16%
Procedural████████████12%
Conflict Of Interest Disclosure████████████12%
Budget Equity Analysis█████████9%
Fiscal Sustainability████████8%
Public Engagement███████7%
Homelessness███████7%
Historical Preservation██████6%
Economic Development█████5%
Summary of Proceedings

Payson Town Council Regular Meeting - January 22, 2025

The Payson Town Council held a regular meeting on January 22, 2025, at 4:00 p.m. in the Town Hall Council Chambers. The meeting included a public comment period, approval of consent agenda items, presentations on the annual audit, housing study, and conflicts of interest, a public hearing for a liquor license, a first public hearing on an urban camping ordinance, and an executive session regarding pending litigation. Mayor Otto recused himself from the executive session.

Consent Calendar

  • B.1 – Motion to approve the minutes of Town Council Regular, Special, and Work Session meetings from November 13, 2024, to January 7, 2025. Motion carried 7-0.

Public Comments & Testimony

  • Tom Dunning (21-year resident) spoke about the importance of avoiding conflicts of interest to maintain public trust, applauding recusals.
  • Isaac Blake addressed intimidations, threats, and mistreatment of Vice-Mayor Tubbs and others, calling for an end to cancel culture tactics.
  • Guy Pfister thanked the council and urged town staff not to use legal excuses to block council inquiries.
  • Steve and Linda England requested the town intervene regarding a neighbor blocking their view with tarps out of spite. Vice-Mayor Tubbs asked staff to review the issue; Acting Town Manager Sheila DeSchaaf requested photos.
  • Pat Lockwood criticized town processes and personnel, calling for a vetted committee to examine business practices.
  • Charlie Seraphin questioned a 2021 engagement letter with Stifel bond company, citing lack of council awareness and use of an emergency clause. Council Member Haws asked staff to follow up.
  • Judith Hansen questioned the town's purchase of Malibu property for $3 million without a prior geological study and raised FOIA concerns.
  • John Paderewski criticized the revocation of Propositions 401/402 via an emergency clause for a bond, advocated for Charlie Seraphin as Town Manager.
  • Barbara Buntin urged transparency and access to documents, noting the Santa Cruz Treasurer embezzled millions despite audits.
  • Brook Myers (organic farmer) chastised town staff for hindering the council and questioned why the council could not get answers.
  • Mike Quinn (KMOG referred) urged the council to appoint Sheila DeSchaaf as Town Manager, hire a police chief, fix roads, and stop political games. Mayor Otto responded that no council member has a financial interest in KMOG.
  • Inga Chouinard questioned why Acting Town Manager DeSchaaf prevented two consultants from inspecting the pool when council members wanted their opinions.
  • Vic Conner cautioned against prematurely hiring a Town Manager without knowing the full job description.

Discussion Items

  • C.1 Town Manager's Report: Sheila DeSchaaf summarized department highlights and read a thank-you letter from Payson High School Student Government for supporting Spookeyfest. Council Member Haws and Mayor Otto commended the Parks and Recreation ice rink.
  • D.1 Proclamation: Council Member Nossek read a proclamation declaring January 29 – February 3, 2025, as Pony Express Week. Members of the Navajo County Sheriff's Posse Pony Express accepted.
  • D.2 Annual Town Audit Presentation: R. McKay Hall (Hinton Burdick CPAs) presented the FY24 audit, noting an unmodified (clean) opinion, no material weaknesses, one significant deficiency (year-end accounting timeliness), and no reportable findings. Financial highlights: total net position $158 million, general fund unassigned balance $20 million (69% of expenditures, ~8 months buffer). Sales tax increased 16.3% over prior year. Council Member Nossek and Haws asked about fund balance and typical buffers.
  • D.3 Housing Study Presentation: Julie Leonard and Chad Chancellor (Next Move Group) presented findings. The study projects average household income will grow 25% by 2030, with 4-5% fewer low-income residents. Annual demand: 57 homes for sale and 20 rental units across various price ranges. Over five years, need for 285 for-sale and 107 rental units. Chancellor recommended focusing on middle-to-upper priced homes. Council Member Bell asked about retirees; Haws requested comparison of current projects to study needs; Ferris asked about tiny homes; Nossek asked if presented to EDAC; Tubbs asked about comprehensive study cost ($4,900 vs. ~$75,000).
  • D.4 Conflicts of Interest Presentation: Town Attorney Christina Estes-Werther explained Arizona law on conflicts, definition of substantial interest, remote interest exceptions, and recusal procedures. She noted the presentation was in response to a January 8 request. Council Member Haws clarified no ethics investigation was opened. Council Member Flaherty asked about a past vote on a water agreement; Estes-Werther said it likely fell under a remote interest exception.
  • E.1 Public Hearing – Liquor License: Application for Series 7 beer and wine bar license by Kyle Delly for County Liquors at 703 W. Main Street. Applicant stated the license would be placed on inactive status immediately. No public comments. Council voted 7-0 to approve.
  • F.1 First Public Hearing – Ordinance No. 968 (Urban Camping): Estes-Werther presented updates due to the Grants Pass Supreme Court decision, which overturned Martin v. Boise. The ordinance allows prohibition of camping/sleeping in public places, temporary 30-day bans from parks after two citations, and criminal penalties with mitigating factors. Proposition 312 (passed Nov. 2024) requires enforcement of nuisance ordinances or potential property tax refunds. Council Member Bell asked about mental health and drug distinctions; Ferris asked about current problem; Police Commander Haines noted gaps in addressing homelessness on town property. Public comment from Pat Lockwood cited lack of homeless resources and shelter limitations. No action taken (first hearing).

Key Outcomes

  • Consent Agenda: Approved 7-0.
  • Liquor License (E.1): Approved 7-0.
  • Executive Session (H.1): Mayor Otto recused himself, stating he had no monetary interest but donated to Transparent Payson and would exercise his constitutional rights. Isaac Blake asked to defer the item due to perceived conflicts. Mayor Otto passed control to Vice Mayor Tubbs. Motion to recess to executive session (for litigation in cases S-0400-CV-202400271 and S-0400-CV-2023-00118) passed 6-0. The council recessed at approximately 6:31 p.m. and reconvened at approximately 7:40 p.m. without Mayor Otto. Meeting adjourned at 7:40 p.m.

Meeting Transcript

Calling this meeting to order of the Pays and Common Council. This is a regular meeting, January 22nd, 2025. And these are the council chambers. And I ask for Pastor Doug Schlemmer for the invocation. There was a little song that we used to sing when I was growing up. And it was called This Little Light of Mine. Maybe some of you guys remember it. I'm going to let it shine. I'm going to let it shine. Let it shine. Let it shine. Father, you said that you are the light of Christ. And Father, we're going to let you shine today. And our world today, Father, shine. And our neighborhoods today, in our homes, and in our families, shine. You have the light of Christ. Let it shine in our pace and community. Let it shine through your church, through their, you know, though there's darkness all around, let your light shine. Let it shine through our civic leaders, through our marketplaces. Let it shine in the young and the old. How's your shining going? Matthew 5, 16 says, Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven. Notice it says, your good deeds. They're seen and praise flows to God. In Hebrews chapter six, verses seven and eight and through twelve, it says, ground that drinks the rain, which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God. But if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being born, burned, cursed, and it ends up being burned. Do you feel you are being tilled by God? Pushed to surface, pushed to the surface, turned over. This is God's way to bring us into being fruitful. Fire destroys. Though we are speaking in this way, for God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown towards his name. And having ministered and still ministering to the saints. And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promise. God will not forget your work and love which you show him by helping his people. Pray with me. Father God, we can't say enough about the churches. Father, fill your house using these churches. Father, enlarge their borders and influence. Bless them. Build them into a holy living temple to you, the living God. Allow them to be victorious, more than conquerors, and full of your spirit, unified and carrying your glory, your grace, and your truth. Amen. I pledge a leaders to the United States of America for which is another God. Michelle, you have a roll call for us. Thank you. At this moment, I'd like to begin the call to the public with uh Mr. Tom Dunning. Hi, I'm Tom Dunning. I'm a 21-year resident of Payson. Mr.

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