Good afternoon, and welcome to Pittsburgh City Council's cable cast post agenda on winter time and homelessness for December seventeenth, twenty twenty five.

I am Council uh Councilman Bob Sharland, and uh this is a post agenda that we've called in in years past here and want to continue making um an effort to to kind of understand where we are in in the city um and in the region in terms of homelessness and uh our preparation for the winter here.

I will uh allow our guests to uh introduce themselves and uh then listen to a presentation here and uh we may be joined by other members um as the uh presentation goes on.

Thank you so much.

Uh Camila Larcon, Assistant Director in Public Safety overseeing the Office of Community Health and Safety.

I am Ben Tallock, the program manager for the Roots program, also with the Office of Community Health and Safety.

Hi, Aaron Dalton, I'm the director of the county's Department of Human Services.

I am Andy Hafill, administrator of homeless programs at the Department of Human Services.

Um technologies set up.

Okay, cool.

Um great, thank you.

Thanks for having us.

Um I'll just offer a couple of higher level comments, and then I've asked Andy Hafel, who um just introduced himself to present just where we are with the homeless system uh this winter.

Um I think he will present a pretty stable picture in comparison to previous years when we were here, thankfully.

Um just to add to that, we've got um a number of warming centers, including doing a lot of work with Second Avenue Commons this winter, um, some of which we'll start to see in early January, uh, trying to improve the experience there during during the day, and we'll be happy to have Jubilee Kitchen also back online providing providing warm meals.

Um just to mention, we issued a solicitation just last week to engage outreach partners to be part of our continuum of care.

So um, we issued that and wanted to make sure the folks from the city were aware of it.

Um we're also issuing a broader um call for volunteers for our point in time count.

Um so that's something that happens every January in alignment with HUD requirements, and the new methodology we're using requires a lot more volunteers, so encouraging people to um engage with us and and volunteer to to help us get a census of unsheltered homelessness this winter.

Um also just want to mention uh gratitude to our city partners for all kinds of things.

Um, but also for being a backup for us when um winter shelters have challenges, including um this morning where we had a a pipe burst, and so worked with city partners to have a backup plan there.

We're you know really critical partners in getting people housed through 500 and 500.

Um and then lastly, um we've been engaging um through our continuum of care in a five-year strategic plan for the homeless system, and so um we'll be releasing that soon.

So just some higher level updates, and we can um update on any of those or provide more information.

But Andy can talk through the actual winter plan for for homelessness.

Great.

Um before we start, I just want to acknowledge we've been joined by uh Councilwoman Gross and Councilperson Strasberger and uh take it away, Andy.

Great.

All right.

We just have a few slides to kind of uh lay out our what our plans are for this winter and um answer any questions.

Uh I think you'll see that our plan for this winter is very similar to what you you heard last winter.

Uh I think last winter was very successful, and so we've really just building upon what we did last year.

Um our plan uh is to is to have a sufficient capacity across our shelter system for anybody that would like to come inside um throughout the winter.

We were successful in that last year by um adding additional shelter spaces and um working closely with our outreach partners to get get folks inside.

So feel good about our our plan, but we'll be continuing to monitor this.

Um I'm actually monitoring this daily to see how our our counts are looking so that we can adjust our plan if we need to.

Um just a little bit of background.

So our our shelter system, I'll talk a little bit about our shelter system for um adults without children.

We have a separate uh shelter system that is for families with children.

But just thinking about our our uh system for uh households without children.

We have around 400 beds that are available year-round across a number of shelters across the county.

Um each winter we we add capacity to that.

So for this winter specifically, we're at we've added 232 additional winter seasonal beds.

Uh those all opened up on November 15th.

Um, and just the details here.

So we have three overflow programs, so Second Avenue Commons here downtown, East End Cooperative Ministry in East Liberty, and then the Salvation Army and East Liberty as well.

So those three programs are each sort of like flex their capacity, add additional beds in the winter time.

Um those all opened uh about a month ago and have been serving people well, sort of gradually filling up and serving people.

And then we have the dedicated winter shelter that's at uh the North Side Partnership Project on the North Side, that's 2610 Maple Avenue.

Um that program has 141 beds.

Uh it's the same location we had last year, um, was successful there, and so we're back there again this winter.

Um and then one additional element is just last year we um expanded capacity at Second Avenue Commons to have sort of seven-day a week services during the day, have weekend weekend hours.

Um that was that was an improvement and really helped people for those um especially weekend hours and early morning hours.

So that is happening once again.

So I want to talk a little bit about the dedicated winter shelter.

Uh again, mentioned this is the second year that we are working at this site.

Um that program opened on the 15th of November, and we plan for that to stay open through the end of April this next year.

Again, has a capacity of about 140 beds.

Um that program is uh operated by our partner community family advocates.

Um, and then we have staff at DHS here who are very involved working closely with that program.

The way that the program works is that the shelter has room for about 140 people uh each night.

There's sort of designated spaces for for males, designated space for females, and then an overflow uh space as well.

Um so each night we have generally um the majority of people coming to the shelter via a shuttle that comes from Second Avenue Commons each evening makes several trips up there and then drops folks off and circles back and picks up additional folks in the evening and then returns people there in the morning.

Um we do have a stop on the south side each evening at Unity Recovery to pick up people there who are looking to um yeah, looking to come to winter shelter and sort of um get there directly from the south side and then in the morning time.

Light of Life is one of our partners, and so we've worked with them to have them be a spot where uh people can can use their engagement center during the day.

So drop off people directly there in the morning.

People come, check in, um, their security on site, um, and then once they go through security, then they receive dinner, there's breakfast provided in the morning.

One key uh aspect of this is working with our street outreach partners.

So we have a number of street medicine teams that are associated with Pitt, Operation Safety Net, Central Outreach, Allegheny Health Network, and UPMC.

So they are there a few days a week, just providing medical services, footwashing, different services to help people that might need it at the shelter.

And then the last thing I'll just mention is that we are, I think, doing a better job this year of uh with some dedicated staffing to help connect people to other shelters.

Um people that begin to be regular users of the winter shelter, they begin to get comfortable.

It's a it's a comfortable space for them, working to uh coordinate with them to think about moving on to other shelters, other housing programs that um that are good fits for them.

So just want to talk a little bit about the the numbers we've seen so far.

So I mentioned that all of these services opened on the middle of November, uh November 15th.

So we've had about 450 people, a little bit more than that that have used these winter dedicated services since those programs opened.

Um what we're seeing is that the majority of people who are coming to winter shelter um really are just using it for a very short period.

So just a few days.

Most folks come for a day sporadically here or there, say for a few days.

There are you know a small number of people who are using it regularly, um, but majority of people just have uh very sort of acute need.

Um we did see counts, you know, of these last few days that were especially cold, um counts go up.

Um, but we are sort of monitoring how many beds we have available in the system, and we we've had um plenty of space in the rest of the shelter system to serve people, so we haven't had had any nights at all where folks have been turned away or haven't had capacity.

That's really like our dedicated winter strategy.

Um that is working well so far.

Uh wanted to highlight, because we've talked about this in the past, just what our resources are for families with children.

Um we absolutely never want um households with children to experience unsheltered homelessness, and so the county has uh seven shelter programs that operate throughout the county.

At any given time, there's about a uh about capacity for a hundred households to be served in those.

But one of those programs is operated by Auberley, and they have the ability to sort of flex capacity at any time and sort of serve additional households as needed.

So we work, so Allegheny Link is part of the Department of Human Services, and they coordinate all of those referrals to families too to these different shelters throughout the day.

Um that that's how that system works.

We do have additionally three domestic violence shelters in addition to that that serve uh families that may be experiencing domestic violence, and so that's an additional approximately 25 households that can be served in those programs uh at any time.

Just wanted to highlight too that we have a website called Allegheny Connect that provides resources to anybody at any time that has all of this shelter information.

And so obviously we can share these slides, but if you go to Allegheny Connect here, um, or you can call two on one and you'll receive a listing of of all the different shelter resources that we have.

Um we constantly update this to keep it current.

I think that is it actually, as far as our winter winter plans.

Uh does anyone else want to add anything?

Um folks.

Thank you.

Um we wanted to add, we obviously don't run the winter shelters, but we are partners with the county.

And we were able to talk to our teams right now.

We have four teams of the roots uh homeless outreach teams, and particularly the team in zone five is flexing to four to make sure that we have coverage there.

And um the zone three team is currently two members are also covering the whole of six and going the sorry, the whole of three and going to six whenever it's needed.

Um and the rest of the zones are one, two, and five.

But what they've been reporting is that folks are using the winter shelter at a higher rate than last year.

People are more um more willing to go to these winter shelters, um, and particularly because of that added uh stop in Unity are zone three teams, the post-overdose team and the roots team have said that there's less folks sleeping rough, less folks sleeping in tents, and less folks indoor ways because of that stop because it has allowed them to be able to go to winter shelters.

So that has been something that the trends they've seen these past couple of weeks, like two weeks.

And um I know that the Unity drop-in center does have an over overnight capacity of being a drop-in center, um, but having that capability of being able to go to the winter shelter has helped a lot, uh, particularly that area.

Um so those were some of the conversations we had with the county about like access to it.

So we are very happy to report that adding those stops into the shuttle.

Uh other teams also in OCHS have uh mentioned that the stops from the shuttle on the way back.

Having places where they people can access food has also been a big motivator for folks to not be sleeping rough outside early in the morning.

Um social services are really important and a great uh motivator for folks to to access them.

And once they access this at an initial point, this can lead to having more conversations to enter into the rest of the shelter and housing system.

So I think that's been a great strategy.

Obviously, we still have folks who don't want to be in congregate um areas and who um rejected any type of shelter.

So I think it's really important to highlight outreach teams.

Uh our outreach team has been amazing in finding folks, preparing them with winter gear, with survival items, but also taking street medicine, which are great partner uh to us to make sure that folks are not suffering from frostbite or any other uh life threatening from the cold.

So I really wanted to highlight that our outreach teams, especially we got a lot of calls from your chiefs of staff this weekend because it was very, very cold.

And I was happy to report that on Monday they had done checks throughout the day, Friday, but on Monday, everybody was accounted for and um thankfully had been able to withhold withstand that that weather.

So I think sometimes outreach workers are not um focused in this conversation, but they're an incredible resource for survival for our folks who are outside.

Um I wanted to really commend those teams that have been going in these conditions and checking on everybody.

I know one of uh one of our our our team leads is working two days in a night in the shelter and the winter shelter.

Um he is mainly helping with stream medicine.

And one of the amazing things that I wanted to highlight from the winter shelter is the fact that now people, when they come into the shelter are screened for medical needs.

That what that was in happening last year, and that has been crucial for folks to make sure they get the attention they need.

So uh from our perspective, I think this we we are in a very good spot this winter, and the collaboration that we have with our county partners, but also previously.

I think a lot of work goes happens before, particularly around mental health.

We have been able to increase our case conferences with our car county partners at a higher level.

There's now a lot of different folks that are coming that provide a great expertise from the jail, from mental health providers, and that helps prepare folks as well for these events.

So that's something that I wanted to highlight.

I'll just take 30 more seconds.

So uh just a few things with what Camila was saying.

Um our downtown uh team lead is the person that she was referencing Tim.

Um we're fortunate enough that he continues to stay with the RITS program after becoming a nurse about I think eight months ago now.

Um so he's been volunteering.

This is a second winter doing uh medical care over at the winter shelter with the rest of the street medicine teams.

Um Camila mentioned, like as the weather shifted, especially this last week with the extreme temperatures, like our teams worked some of them through the weekend as well, just ensuring people are safe.

Um, this past Monday we got a call from emergency management about uh a large increase in uh people experiencing homelessness at the senior center in the South Side.

And so our Southside team lead and outreach worker spent a chunk of their day over there making sure these were people that were connected, uh seeing if they needed warm gear if they were choosing to remain outside versus going to the winter shelter and making sure they understood those resources there.

Um I mean, we'll of course keep doing that.

I think some of our daytime centers have received uh have gotten a little bit of a reprieve today with the warmer temperatures.

Um we'll pick it back up on Friday as uh as the temperatures start dropping again.

Ben reminded me of something I want to highlight.

The warming centers of the city uh were a great resource as well for us to have folks, but I know there's areas where they don't have warming centers that are very close.

Um so I know that especially on Monday uh the our north side um space was a great place for folks who didn't have access to a close warming center.

So I think having conversations around um drop-in centers can also be a resource for the community, not only for the in-house, but for the community at large.

Um and it we've been in the South side, but in other um of these warming centers or senior facilities been coming in and helping folks with with their needs, as we know our older adult population has been experiencing homelessness at a at a higher rate than we've seen in the past couple of years.

So checking in as well through our PINS program for folks who whose living conditions, although they're housed, might not be the best uh during these conditions if they don't have access to their um utilities, we can work along that or access.

So just wanted to highlight that anything else from team.

Okay.

Uh with that, I think we'll uh transfer it over to questions from members.

Uh Councilman Gross, you were first here, if you're ready to go.

Thank you, Mr.

Sherlin.

I appreciate the um having the post agenda and the discussion.

I know it's busy time of year for everybody on operations and on council side, but it's great to hear these updates.

I mean, it really feels to me like more people are getting services and more people are getting shelter and more people are getting housed, right?

And so let's just acknowledge that and say thank you, right?

Because it's been a heavy lift and it's a lot of it's been a lot of um focused policy and administrative attention to get here.

So I really I really appreciate that.

Um I also want to remind for anybody listening to make sure you didn't miss it, that for a very long time that DHS's policy has been to house families with children.

Um and I just so I just I don't know that everybody realizes that and knows that.

And so I want to acknowledge that as well and say thank you for that, because that is doesn't happen everywhere.

Um it does happen here, and it's really important.

Um so you know, we've been we've talked about the nuts and and bolts about different facilities and and uh thank you again for the success of the 500 and 500.

We spent a lot of time and energy also um trying to add that capacity into the system.

And so um we know that some people um have moved all the way through that system into permanent housing.

So I think that's that's a success story.

Not that everybody can or is ready or whatever, and people have different paths, but there is a path now that it has more capacity in it that had a bottleneck before.

And so I think that's that's really important.

Uh what I did also hear, and maybe you can help me understand if I was hearing this correctly, because it was in a little bit of pieces from what each person said, is that we definitely we definitely have higher participation in the overflow and in the winter shelters, but that it's attributed mainly to some of the things that were helpful was this shuttle, this literally the physical transit, like more transportation.

Um because what I heard also is that the transportation was maybe helping people get not just to this maybe bad at a congregate shelter that they had, but maybe to the other resources they needed as well, or or to food resources, right?

And so in previous years that you know, people don't have cars that are trying to, you know, you know, so if they couldn't, they would feel like cut off and unable to like have some autonomy or or even to be thrown needs, right?

And so that's been an addition.

So I think that's that's really impressive.

So you know, increasing people's access to transit and their food is really kind of like what everybody needs.

Like we talk about this a lot, not just for people who are unhoused.

Um that have I did I hear correctly that you also added kind of medical screening and medical assistance in intake and mental health screening and assistance, or that was happening before.

I kind of not sure how that is working.

Yeah, there's there's uh there's been medical supports the last couple of years, but I think it's um just expanded a little bit more this year.

Um I wouldn't necessarily say that there are dedicated mental health supports, but we have a lot of different teams that are coming into the space, whether it be different outreach teams, the Allegheny Link team, um different street medicine teams that are that are coming there to meet with people, right?

So yeah.

And um just to add, uh during the day, certainly at Second Avenue Commons, there's a full medical clinic with behavioral health care.

And so the winter shelter is is mostly an overnight situation.

So it's great to have the medical care there, but uh primarily the behavioral health care would happen you know during the during the daytime and though any of our teams can respond to the shelter too if there are concerns if somebody's in acute crisis, we would not let that.

That's thank you.

That's exactly where my mind was going.

It's not just that that individual person might say um both both that the individual person might be like, you know what, yes, yes, I will go in that I will take that bed because you know I can get there, or I can also get to the other things that it's working for me logistically, and there's things that I can get, but then also just imagining being on the floor of a congregate tilter, having fewer people there in some kind of dire crisis is gotta be better for everybody, right?

I don't know if if that's the reality, but that's what I'm imagining.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to during, I think there's like a holistic plan to make sure that these things work better.

And I think this past year we've really focused with the county on doing more mental health focus, acute uh complex need case conferences during the day to make sure that we can help those folks in need.

So it's not only just providing shelter, but it's providing all of the supports that our crisis teams, particularly working in these areas and being able to, now that there's two clinicians uh to work in tandem with uh the county team.

So uh our zone one team lead uh for roots told specifically told us they work really closely with Resolve there to help transport folks into that winter shelter.

So because they have longer operational hours, right?

And we right now currently can only do daylight.

So we have that partner, and because of those case conferences that we've been able to have now, they know who are the folks.

They know what we're doing, and they've been able to help us uh transport some of those folks into the winter shelter.

Thank you, Director.

That's a that's really seems like a big operational change.

Um so I really appreciate that.

Again, even if it's not yourself, right?

You imagine like you're two feet away from the per, you know, a person who's either got a dire medical um crisis or or mental health crisis, it's not as um, you know, it's it's difficult.

That would be difficult.

Um so thank you.

Um and then I did also write down to expand if we can find better citywide coverage for drop-in warming centers.

Because again, I've I've I've definitely experienced this, right?

We don't really have a warming center.

Um and so we're told to like, you know, with East Liberty is close, or like literally, and there been there have been winter episodes where public safety told me I had to tell my constituents to go to Penn Hills.

Right.

And so um we don't want that, right?

We want to to be um, you know, not even not everybody can get to this suburban location where they have to drive to, right?

We want to make sure that we have um locations that people can get to because sometimes they are cold in their homes.

Um and we have to watch out for that.

And we definitely have seen an increase in my time on council in the last 12 months of seniors in need of assistance, people in need of assistance that we're having to call a CHS.

I mean, people who do have saved lives, I mean OC our OCHS wrote in a save the lives of people who are in their homes, um, but in very dire situations.

And so um, you know, those could end up contributing to the homeless crisis as well.

So um heard and I wrote that down.

So we'll we'll work on those things.

I appreciate it.

I think that's all I have.

I don't have any other questions.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Okay.

Uh Council Strasberger.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Well, just thank you for uh thank you for calling this because just because we don't have a you know an official task force on city council anymore, or it's not as much um of a focus in the in the news in terms of what city council is doing to focus on this issue.

It's still top of mind in in every single district, and um this is a helpful refresher as to how everyone works together on this critical issue.

And um the only question that I can think of now that goes above and beyond or like is different from what we've heard so far is um uh I know that there is so little that we can do to force someone to go indoors when they are um when you know they're they're living outside and they are sleeping outside and they for any number of reasons prefer to stay outside.

And you know, and I know many of you have been looped into the conversation that mostly councilwoman Warwick has been sort of trying to navigate.

Um, but I've been on on those emails as well.

Like people express concern, and it's so hard for us to tell them like we're our wellness, you know, there are wellness workers who are working with them, doing everything possible.

Police might show up and like I want to just ask the question to make sure that I'm asking it here.

There's there's nothing more than we can do than we're already doing, and it's not as if we're like not learning from other municipalities or states or any other jurisdictions.

We're not doing anything differently here than you would see in New York City or Houston.

Well, Houston doesn't have the same cold weather, but um New York City is often brought up as an op as as a as a model by folks who express concern and just wanted to ask the question and make sure that there's like nothing nothing we're leaving on the table here in terms of helping folks get inside when it's really, really cold.

And I'm actually I'm actually like truly surprised to learn that there are some people who made it through these last few days living outside and are okay.

Like it doesn't seem possible, but somehow they are.

So I guess I'm I'm glad, but you know, I I know there's really it's a really tricky situation.

There's not much we can do.

Wanted to ask that, get the answer and continue to be able to convey that to the folks who are concerned.

Yeah, that's a a really great question.

I know uh I think you're on those emails from from this weekend about one particular person in Squirrel Hill.

Um seeing this is really difficult for outreach as well.

Uh I know for me, like I've been doing this work since 2010, and every winter it feels uh harder than ever to know you're leaving people outside.

Um with that person, I think this is their third winter uh staying outside.

Uh when I talk about like we've tried everything, obviously there's the initial engagement.

Um if we are struggling and we're concerned about their safety, resolve is typically our first call.

Um for OCHS specifically, we're we have the benefits of our of our uh clinicians as well that work here.

Um but we check in with resolve.

We often talk to the resolve director, Dr.

Jack Rosell, um, to to talk about the uh symptoms that we're seeing of people ensuring that they do in fact have the capacity to understand the risks that they're that are involved with living outside in extreme temperatures, and of course, making sure people have that um capacity to make those decisions.

Uh beyond that, I know some other cities uh believe uh Florida in particular has attempted to involuntarily commit people for uh the opposite extreme temperature, uh, and it's not something that mental hospitals typically hold for.

Uh and uh like we've had this discussion also with WIPIC as well in those clinicians, and it's uh there's there's just again so little we can do.

I think this year in particular, as Aaron and Andy were mentioning earlier, we do have the shelter capacity throughout the winter, which has been hugely beneficial.

Uh I think this is the first year like I I think for the first several hours my teams were outside uh on Monday, they were having difficulty finding people because they were either in the senior center downtown, or I'm sorry, in the south side, they were in downtown at 2 AC, they were at our site in the north side.

Um so we do have at least that going for us.

And just uh adding what Ben is saying, we have also studied Ben has been crucial in that and what other cities with cold weather do for folks to be able to survive.

So thanks to a lot of our grants, we're able to buy a lot of things like hand warmers, special blankets, different things to help them survive.

I would say because we get those questions as well.

I think that for the communities, they should feel that the majority of the people are accessing these services and are safe, and that is an outlier, and that person will a hundred percent be checked on, will a hundred percent be cared for.

I know I think Ben and I worked through the weekend um to make sure that we were getting those calls and make sure that there was someone who is also checking in.

Never be afraid to call 911 if EMS is needed.

If it's a medical emergency, that is an amazing resource that we have that some folks feel like if they call 911, it's gonna be like a punitive response, and it's not.

It's a public health response as well.

Um so that is something that I think can swear like calm a little a little bit about the people, but I completely we get those emails.

It's I I understand that's that's a great question.

Just nothing significant to add except to say um I think it's it's known that we're offering whatever folks will take.

It's not that we would expect um all of those folks to go into a congregate situation.

We are offering anything that that people will take at that point.

So we while we focus on the winter shelter kind of resources, we have lots of scattered site shelter and other housing opportunities for people who really um don't feel safe in those environments.

And so Ben's team, everybody knows that that anything is really available for for people in those situations.

Um I agree with Ben that while um 302 often is not going to an involuntary commitment's often not going to stick in those situations.

In certain instances it is a clinically appropriate people aren't at that point able to make decisions for themselves and are you know at at significant safety risk.

And so those things do happen um but they are not long term solutions.

That's not going to hold people all winter that's not if people want to be outside it's not our laws don't allow us to hold them you know for long long periods of time.

But we do use those tools when we when we have to or when we think it's clinically well when clinicians feel it's appropriate.

And there are I mean there are um other laws across the country and including in New York that are um allow for more flexibility in risk to self and others um that just don't exist in in Pennsylvania.

Yeah.

So bottom line like we are caring for these folks even if we don't witness it hour to hour like even if that person who's calling us or emailing us doesn't see it happening we are caring for we collectively are caring for those folks.

Yeah.

Okay.

One one last thing to add uh like I think some of our most vulnerable neighbors I'm thinking of one uh in in Hazelwood that Camilla also got a call this weekend.

Like she is somebody that I've personally stopped by late at night to make sure her gloves are dry and make sure as she has hand warmers.

She's also been very unwilling to go inside uh the person in Squirrel Hill is not been really engageable uh and has refused all items that are given or or opportunities for shelter.

Um but these are people like if we know someone's staying outside and we know there's extreme weather whether it's freezing, it's hot, there's flooding risks like our teams will go out after hours.

Every single person on my team has been really phenomenal at that if they think that somebody is at um extreme risk.

This last thing because I think we haven't acknowledged we saw in that Hazelwood rem reminded me our religious leaders sometimes an outreach worker might not be the person that they will listen to but in certain in this situation that it was a religious leader that was able to get this person to a shelter.

So I think our religious leaders are doing an amazing job as well.

They have really strong ties to the community and they are kind of like the you know we don't highlight them as much of like all the work these different churches in your different districts are doing to keep people safe and we have collaborated with with a lot of them but want to make sure because they've been very very important in situations where it's extreme.

Thank you all.

That's all I have Mr.

Chair thank you.

Thank you.

Uh councilman Gill Smith Councilman for hosting the meeting and making sure you're following up thank you all for being here.

I just really wanted to come out and thank you Camilla for the work that you've done and you are working all weekend I can attest to that because I've contacted you.

So I want to thank you for the work that you've been doing and um but I do have some concerns because I I hear what you're saying about if people can make a decision about whether or not they want to you know seek help or get shelter but sometimes if somebody has an addiction problem they can't make those decisions.

And so I think I worry because you know we have that gentleman in in my ear and I mean he he not only can he not make the decision but his friends are now also you know have addiction problems and they're also coming together.

And sooner or later this has an effect on the city, on the community, on people the businesses around whether or not they want to get help or not sometimes shouldn't be just left up to them because I think and I don't think just 302 somebody I think you know maybe making sure we're getting shelter and help.

And I'm just wondering what you do in time in terms of mental health or um any kind of addiction issues.

What do what is the the response if somebody doesn't want it and I'll Ben has been working very closely with that gentleman so he can speak more of the steps we're doing but we do have peers now that have gone through that who have gone have lived experience with substance use and we have been successful with having someone talk through it takes a little bit more time but I I I acknowledge that situation we m like we might lose that space right because there's other people who are waiting for it.

And that's one of the other things that it's not only winter shelter the county helped us get this single room occupancy space but when we've tried to do like our clinicians get involved and do those assessments the problem is those will not hold in like a magistrate or they will not hold or um we don't have the laws to permit us to do certain things.

What we'll do in that situation is get is it a state law or city law what law is it?

State.

That's when you're going to lobby yes.

Yes.

State law.

And what we do is we try to like flood that person with as many people as we can.

I know we talked about maybe in that situation.

Can I just say something real quick?

So a lot of times people think it's the city not doing things.

But they don't realize we sometimes have to follow you know state and federal laws.

Correct.

And so I just want to make sure people understand that is we maybe just be following laws.

So that's in the super important because that really limits and creates barriers for for us.

And that situation we're trying to work around maybe the pet and get so we try to different angles to try and get somewhere, but but it is a concern and it is a struggle.

And and Ben has been working with this person every day of like the I feel so bad for him because I mean he actually is not well physically either either.

So I mean I just feel so bad.

Just to um just to add, I mean, there are very few opportunities for involuntary commitments of any kind.

Like there, I'm not gonna remember the right number, but for children, um, there's a procedure if they're uh addicted to substance use, uh have a substance use disorder, addicted to substances that their parents and or others can petition for.

Um, but those are also really hard to uh to uphold.

Um I will say that the county's been exploring for a number of years um opting into a law in Pennsylvania that allows us to work under a a lesser threshold and and it's called assisted outpatient treatment.

It's it's for mental health or substance use where we can family members or others, practitioners, healthcare providers can petition this on the civil side um to have people engage in an assessment and then get outpatient treatment.

So we are um as of January 1, we will opt into that opportunity in Allegheny County.

So it it the threshold is lower and it doesn't require inpatient care because oftentimes inpatient care people aren't ready for um and it disconnects them from their community.

They may, you know, be working, they may have other opportunities, the family members that they aren't ready to be disconnected from.

So it provides both an opportunity to support people to stay in outpatient care and it lowers the threshold that three oh twos.

Um it's it's controversial.

Um anytime you are taking you're weighing what we all are sharing here, the concern for people dying on the street with people's civil liberties.

I mean, treatment and care is viewed as voluntary.

Um and so it's always a really challenging decision, but we think after lots of years of study and engagement that it has the opportunity to improve outcomes for people with low risk of uh uh harm, and um we're gonna monitor it carefully um as we as we um opt in on January 1.

So I'm glad that you're doing it.

And what I say to people all the time is if I ever get in a situation where I am in that, don't think you're doing me a favor by letting me die on the street.

You know, don't let me suffer on the street.

Don't think you're doing me a you're not helping anybody.

And so when I hear some of these advocacy groups, you know, and things that they advocate for, it makes me frustrated because I'm thinking, who are you really helping?

Because look at this.

This is not help, and this is not humane.

And and to me, it's not in America.

I think that looks great.

I think it's terrible that we have people all over the place and you know, struggling, suffering, dying, um just everything.

It just makes me sick that I feel like in this day and age there should be a place and way that we can house people and help people and and do it without having to worry about you know the public scrutiny and re doing what's best.

But what that also brings me to is uh several times I've called you and you've always helped them when I say that.

But part of the problem is a lot of the people that you're trying to help don't want to go into the um the shelters because they don't feel safe or something happened to them in the shelter.

So who oversees them all the shelters, like whether it's private, whether it's you know publicly, who oversees the management of it to make sure that people are because to me, if I was an advocacy group, that's what I would be advocating for, to make sure that the safe that the place where people are staying, that we're housing people is safe and that they're safe and they feel you know welcome and secure in those homes.

Otherwise, you're not doing anybody help.

You know, you're helping yourself in your own organization, you're not really helping people.

So could you tell me who oversees it and what yeah, and Andy, feel free to um add in.

I mean, the county oversees the shelters, we monitor them, we have processes where if people, for example, are kicked out because we get you know concerns about that, that there are rules around how that can happen, that people understand their rights within the shelter system, that people can appeal that.

Um, and we we monitor incidents as they happen.

So, you know, report providers are required to report critical incidents if there's you know if there's violence at the site, whether it's between individuals or staff and and people we're serving.

Um we have a fairly robust director's action line which um takes complaints from from people and we get plenty of them um about the shelter system, which we investigate and seek um to to improve.

Um I think a strength of our shelter system is that there are um there it there are private providers and they run them slightly differently, and so some people may feel more safe in one setting than another, and so there's choice in that.

Um and and truly people of course people feel different, um uh feel differently in different settings.

And as we mentioned earlier, we also have um a pretty robust system of shelter shelter beds with doors, right?

So for people for whom a congregate setting, regardless of how well we monitor it, how well it's run, just as overwhelming and it's you know, too traumatic for them that we um allow people like Ben and others um who work with the population every day to prioritize those beds for um for for those folks.

And um in fact we're just about to issue a solicitation that will incur increase the capacity of those um what we call scattered site shelter beds as well as other housing opportunities for folks.

We had a woman that was on the portico for a while and she stayed on the portico because she didn't want to go to a shelter because she was raped in a shelter uh if um if I'm not mistaken.

And then her boyfriend stayed with her too.

So there was then two people then that were homeless and not and didn't feel safe.

And to me, that's to me that is so important that they're safe that they feel people feel safe.

And and um anyone here can correct me if I'm wrong.

Um it takes a lot of engagement.

I don't know those folks to to name them, but um for most people there is a solution.

We just have to find it.

Um I suspect we probably I don't know this, but like we we will find solutions for folks like that, except for the very rare we all can note name them by name, people who truly will not come inside for any for any option.

And so the the key is really trying to find and that's why we rely so heavily on outreach teams who know those folks and engage try and engage every every day to find that thing that will help them to feel safe and then we can offer it.

We have those resources in our system.

I mean that's what I care about.

Because I mean I just it hurts my heart that somebody's afraid to even go to a shelter to get home.

You know what I mean?

It has to be hard to even go to a shelter, but then to be afraid to go to a shelter is just a it's just uh it's upsetting.

Um lastly, I and I don't know, you probably don't have the resources of funding to do something, but is there anything that you look for like for preventive-wise?

Like if we have somebody that you know is coming to us for the housing opportunity fund and we know that they're struggling.

Like, is there any kind of resources that we bring in other than just immediate assistance?

You know, is just some way that we get some counseling, some help, some you know job skills, whatever it is that might be addiction help, whatever it might be needed.

Is that too much?

Is that too much to ask prevention?

Okay.

No, yeah, absolutely not.

Yeah, I I truthfully first I'll say I I wish we had more resources for that.

Uh we partner uh pretty closely with the um Center for Employment Opportunities, who's been really great at helping some of our people get into their paid job training program right on Ross Street, where they also help get into um longer term employment services.

We work very closely.

One of my good friends is the director at the uh uh housing stabilization center on seventh 7th Street downtown.

Um they've been really great at helping with some of that like pre-homeless service funding.

Uh somebody is is uh maybe lost a job and is behind on behind on rent or again is looking for another job or behind on utility payments, they've been really helpful uh at getting people connected to the resources to keep them in their home so they don't enter that homeless system.

Um we all like we never turn anybody away either coming into our sites, any of the root sites specifically.

Um we do focus on people living outside or in shelter.

Um but if we have a family coming in who is just looking for any resource uh to to remain and again remain in their home, um we'll do whatever it is to to connect them.

Um sorry, one more thing.

You also mentioned like mental health and substance abuse.

Uh we continue to partner really closely with UPMC and Allegheny Health Network uh to get p people connected to those services.

Uh the gentleman you were referring to earlier that you called Camilla about, um he's actually expressed immediate interest in getting help for his uh addiction.

Um however, what we see with a lot of people is we like I really want this, however, I can't do this until I'm inside.

Um and I think for so many people, unless you're really taking care of their absolute basic needs, which one somebody's living outside is survival.

Uh any of these like higher level goals, whether it's addiction treatment or mental health treatment or whatever it else is is completely unachievable.

So we've gone back and forth with him a lot over the last uh several weeks.

We have a bed reserved for him.

Aaron was mentioning like working with the shelter system to uh make sure we prioritize our most vulnerable people and because of some of his ailments we were able to get him in within just a couple days of meeting him but we're still still struggling through that front door yeah yeah convince him that's a good thing.

But I do want to thank you because he's he's like a rock star.

I mean everybody loves this guy they go talk to him they at Thanksgiving he had more meals stacked up than anybody I know it was crazy.

We everybody in the community was feeding them he could run for office one day but he just you know needs to take that step to get help.

Yeah I will say the preventative is something that in the past two years we've been focusing on OCHS so our other teams do a lot of that work through and it's always great to get your referrals so folks who are not on house but might be you know experience ability so working together with EMS and the fire department with our people in need of support unit we've been able to get folks um chairlifts or acts back access to their utilities we've been able to get them to submit a cheerleft I'm glad you said that and and these are things that prevent folks give me one more thing to add to becoming homeless.

So and it's also a lot of our programs our new program for community resilience is about going to the community and asking the community what are specific do you need to not get to the point where it's reactive I think a lot of our other programs are very much preventative in making sure that we can target individuals before they experience that crisis.

So and I think that's what the Roots program does too and we we've been trying to help people understand that a lot of our drop-in centers are not homeless shelters but our community engagement centers where everyone from the community our Sown 5 was hosting food every Friday really good the people of India food we I think we fed over thousands of people in the zone five area.

So there's a lot of things that are preventative but I think a lot of the things that get showcased obviously are the reactionary because it's such a dire need.

But I think that's something super important thank you for highlighting preventative work is what we really want to focus on.

And um just to add I mean I think uh I second what um these guys have said already and so many of the resources at the Department of Human Services really are aimed at that prevention.

I mean on any given day there's you know over 5000 people in the mental health system here just the publicly funded mental health system.

People are getting access to help and care.

In our child protection system we pay for you know millions of dollars of concrete aid to keep families stable in their homes our senior services do the same I'll I'll let Camilla get the um channel about you know the keeping kids in their home and keeping the kids safe and I think sometimes they're two separate things.

But um also about the hoarding we talked about a hoarding task force you know I think about two years ago.

So we're done I'd like to talk offline about that some of the things I will say that the um something that is specifically targeted to um and we're trying to make it more so to reduce um homelessness is the um eviction prevention programs that both the city and the county have supported over the past few years and we've done work in the most recent period since there's not the huge federal funding anymore to make sure that we are targeting those resources to people that have some risk of homelessness.

And and so we're paying rent payments there too and again the city city's contributing to to those efforts to reduce evictions and reduce homelessness through really um proactive tiered um rental assistance for those most at risk.

Yeah.

We did apply to a federal grant for a tasking uh hoarding task force but focused on a clinical so having our clinicians um be part of the hoarding task force and the county supported our application with a letter of support so we hopefully will hear from that which will allow us to go into those homes with a more of a clinical focus on how to help folks because a lot of the times we obviously help them we like my team has gone into uh I remember uh one in a councilman charlotten's district where we clean this is a person who had lived for 20 years in their apartment and it was getting demolished or sold and the team went on weekdays and weekends and cleaned and you know dressed her, fed her and so I think those are the things that we do now but we want to have a clinical focus where we can come in and provide folks who have you know the hoarding those for hoarding challenges.

So we are looking forward to hearing back from that federal funding to have a hard hoarding task force in OCHS that we can deploy because we've seen from your referrals.

We've seen from the needs.

Um those are it's it's really an invisible um thing, but we do see it and and and our uh PIN's program has been incredible with with our um liaisons, Jane Letowski and Chad Horoski, they from EMS and FIRE have been incredible along with our team lead Sarah Harshee.

So we they came up with that together and we've applied to it.

So seen and definitely thank you.

Yeah.

I actually I I think I've told you this before that I've no two separate families were the kids were taken out of the homes because of hoarding, and then the kids were abused in every foster home, every home they went in.

So it's just this, and then you talk about adding to the mental health you know it, you know, concerns and issues.

So to me, it's just where can you start it and where can you prevent it?

And that's the part of that.

I mean, it's it hurts my heart when I see kids with some of the things they've gone through.

So I'm gonna shut up because I'm gonna start crying.

All right.

Thank you all for your work.

I know it's it's a lot of work.

I know it's overwhelming.

And uh I'm glad that you're continuing the mental health programs and meetings.

So thank you.

Uh thank you.

And I no one's online, I believe.

So uh go to to me here in my question.

I would just want to start out by thanking you again for um coming in, you know, something we've done kind of periodically here.

We were unfortunately did this one a little bit later um in the year than than we intended, some scheduling issues um on on our end, and appreciate you being willing to come in and talk to us um about the plan as the plans in place.

So I I did want to start with just the simple question here uh that I an update I had not received is Second Avenue Commons, is it fully functional at this point?

Is everything back to pre-fire um capacity and programming?

Um Second Avenue Commons is fully available for use.

Um there's one floor that uh Second Avenue Commons has its own board and is his own entity that they are still looking for best fit to use that floor.

It's a difficult building, as you know, to to manage with um different populations, and so uh there is still a floor with opportunity for housing, and um I know uh Second Avenue Commons board is working to identify the right fit program to go in there.

Was it the SRO floor?

There were there were two SRO floors, um, and now one floor, we've got a um Western Psych is running a program on the fifth floor um and um looking for again the board is looking for the right opportunity on the fourth floor.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah.

No, it's a it's we don't I I I don't take it lightly that there's opportunity for more people to be housed at that we are not currently using.

I'm the first to complain when we can't find a place to um I d you know to house people, and so we we can't leave things um without without proper use.

So it's it's certainly on our radar.

Sure, yeah.

I'm I'm sure that some of you are thinking about more just that we I really hadn't received an update on you know if everything was up and running here.

Um I was really interested last year in the new way that we're counting uh point in time, how we're gonna go about that.

Uh you know, now that you have run kind of you you ran both point and times last year, um what what have you learned and what what do we think the trend will be this year um as we we go through that?

Well, what is the the date for that?

January 27th.

We'll confirm that.

It's the first it's the last Tuesday of the month.

Um 27th, yeah.

Um yeah, no, they thank you for the question.

Um so yes, we ran two separate points in time count last year.

Um I would say this year will be fundamentally different than either of those two.

So um we worked with um some partners who have helped uh so Bloomberg um associates who have helped uh cities around the country and the world run point in time counts.

So they worked with us and the city and another number of outreach and advocate partners to design something we think will work here.

Um one of the things that's different, and I'll let Andy jump in.

He's been working on it on a regular basis is that it will occur at night.

Right.

So, you know, in New York City and Paris, France, and uh all around the the world um the counts happen at night, right?

They happen between whatever 10 p.m.

and 4 a.m.

Um and you approach anyone who's outside and you ask them if they have some place to stay that night.

That's not what we were doing, and we will um be doing the count at night this year, save for a few locations that we think um are just too unsafe for the people staying there and the um teams doing the count to um do during that during that period.

Um I would say in previous years we roughly um we made an assessment of places where we thought there were people experiencing unhoused homelessness and we went there and we um did a proper count.

Um we will we have done that and we will sample in all of those those blocks um but we are also doing a random sample across the rest of the county so that we are covering more of the um the county than we have ever before and then we will extrapolate those results across the whole county.

So using you know basic statistical methods.

Um so we will get a a a more robust count of the population.

Um we um are I I mentioned at the top we need a lot more volunteers to do it this way.

And so we're seeking about 300 volunteers.

Um we're partnering with a number of um healthcare, you know, UPMC HighMark, um uh the universities, uh United Way and others, and we'd love to have partners from the city, the city the city will participate um um in various aspects of it regardless.

But if city employees are encouraged to to um volunteer, that would be that would be great.

Um we've got cool hats this year.

That's like new marketing.

Um Andy, what what have I missed in terms of the the changes?

I I think you really cover I think we're calling it community counts.

So if you see that branding, that's uh that's the branding community counts.

You missed 300 volunteers.

So that yeah, more of a focus on uh more randomly sampling the outlying areas, so kind of in that vein, having like hubs that we set up around around the area where we'll have volunteers be assigned and sort of staff who are training those volunteers and send them out kind of managing so just more coordination in that aspect this year.

And and I will say too that like throughout this process, you talked about point time count in the spring.

We've been meeting with um representatives from Bloomberg Associates who are provide a lot of consulting to on around point time count internationally, and so we've been meeting with them regularly to get their you know feedback and collaboration.

So that's been huge.

And and to your question about what do we expect the tr like the trend to be, we have we've never done a count like this before.

This is like this is a break from the way we've done it in the past.

Um, but we will be able to replicate this methodology going forward.

So we we do stand a chance of count of of looking at a trend um year over year.

But I have I actually have no idea um uh what this count will um will reveal in terms of numbers because we've never done it like this before.

Yeah, my understanding has always been that the point in time, you know, is controversial for you know uh other reasons, but but the usefulness of it is is the trend and not necessarily the count.

Um so it, you know, I I'm excited to hear that you you're looking at like a this is the way we're gonna do it and this is the way we'll do it for you know forever, so we can can you know it doesn't matter if the number stays at 406 that what matters is that it moves, you know, in what direction it's moving.

Um so um, you know, we'll we'll look forward to that and um I don't know, maybe something we can figure out how to help with more city employees uh helping out with that overnight.

So we do talk a lot about what happens um when folks are rejecting help and uh that was was kind of my one of my questions there.

But I do one of the the trends that I mean I've I've noticed specifically in my district is is not the um what we call the encampments or um you know it it's a lot more there there are spots, there are locations, but it's a lot more people in abandoned houses and people kind of in one-offs.

Can can you talk to me a little about what you're seeing in trends um that looks different this year and uh how you're kind of responding to it.

Maybe uh better for or for both of you.

Yeah, we'll definitely we'll definitely allow both.

Um I actually this is a place where I feel like I you know uh uh we have obviously great partnership with the city.

A data partnership I would like to s make sure happens that I don't think I currently have in place um is the the 311 calls that you all get on on people in um who might be staying in abandoned homes.

I don't I don't feel like I have a good measure on it.

I hear what you're hearing that you know from street outreach, and I believe what they're saying that there are more people staying in abandon, but I don't I I I do think we can do better on tracking that over time, and then that will help us to make sure we're actually addressing it.

And that's not to say it's not being addressed now.

I think our outreach teams have a good um sense of what's going on there.

But I do want just like just like tense, I think it's helpful to track that and be able to show you know increases or reductions and show when our efforts are working or when they're not working.

Um and I think any effort to support people in those situations will both require making the right offers of help and assistance and engagement.

Um, but also for example, in the city, city tools to say you can't actually you can't actually stay here.

It is not a safe situation.

Um and so um I think we've it is a place of of partnership for for the future.

Uh I think I'll try not to repeat myself too much, only because I know we talked about this uh a few weeks ago.

Um so over the last two months, my team we've we've uh started to go to these abandoned homes as a group.

Um I don't remember if I said this last time, but we have a lot of safety issues with going into abandoned homes, whether not knowing the structure of the space, not knowing who's on the other side of those doors, uh, and not of course it's just illegal for us to also break and enter into abandoned home.

Um but we we do do it just to make sure people are safe.

I know there's one home that you've been aware of for several years uh that my team has known that somebody's been living inside, and uh the snow since this weekend was undisturbed as of yesterday.

So we actually did get into that home to make sure people were safe inside uh and it appears vacant again.

Um with that said, over the last two months we've looked at, I just looked earlier, we've looked at 15 homes.

Uh all but one of those spaces was around uh I don't remember the council uh district numbers and lines, but we're all in the zone three area.

Um I think I think we did one in zone six and one in zone two as well.

Uh we're doing our best to follow up with those uh as quickly as possible.

As Aaron said, we do notify people that they technically are not allowed to be there.

There's not much that we can do at OCHS to obviously force people out.

So we're just like we would do with somebody outside, making sure they're aware of uh mental health services, substance use services, the shelter services that are available.

Um at the very least, people are usually at least open to talking with Allegheny Link to get onto the housing waiting lists, uh, which as you know can can take some time.

Uh sometimes it's weeks, sometimes it's months, uh, but making sure we're engaged with those people through the through the duration of that wait period.

Something that has helped has been working with PLI and seeing if those can be boarded up or condemned, or if it's city-owned, because a lot of the times we don't know if it's a private property or city owned.

So we do have we meet bi-weekly with them and we've been working on that list.

I I we do acknowledge that a lot of them are in zone three and in your district and councilman Coghills district.

Um so it's something that we've been trying to figure out because there's no guidance law and legal guidance on how we can operate on that except if it's private property.

So I think that it would be helpful to maybe have a policy around that, a city policy or a city, something that could help us out.

What we can do is check on the individuals, make sure they're um safe, and try to get them to engage with us.

And then we had one in zone six that was reported by um councilwoman Kale Smith, and we had our team meet with the PLI inspector.

And so that was helpful in that case because then if someone is there and they experience like a crisis or are not willing to respond to the inspectors, they will talk to either our uh case managers or social workers.

So we're trying to creatively think of ways that we can support you all without having much legal guidance except if it's private property.

Um then the I guess the last question I have just hearing uh a lot that um a lot of this year's plan is similar to last year's plan.

Um I'm curious like what kind of anyone here believes are the next steps.

What what we would like to see in 2026's winter plan as we're we're looking forward to that um and we're we're learning what what is working and what's not working this year.

The first thing that comes to mind, uh so I know like last year I think what we talked a lot about was some capacity issues.

Um and those have historically always been troubling.

Uh at least this winter we don't have capacity issues.

But what I hear from my team and what I've experienced personally is like safe discharge planning.

Um we really try hard to work with the hospitals.

We try hard to work with Western psych.

Uh and maybe the worst offender of them is like some of the uh substance use treatment centers where people are willing to go inside and then we do everything we can to set up a safe discharge and then they're discharge without us knowing.

Um this is something we've also struggled with as long as I've done this work.

And it doesn't really feel like it's gotten much better.

So I personally think that's uh one of the next best steps when somebody is taking this like huge leap to get into a treatment center, and then it's just kind of put right back on the street after it's really difficult to encourage them to get treatment elsewhere, even if it's just uh utilizing the shelter system.

Can I just ask real quick and who's who's allowing that to happen?

Uh so I not it this isn't one person or or organization specifically.

Um we deal with it a lot with uh which has gotten a little bit better, but with Allegheny County Jail, we've dealt with it with all of the hospitals.

Um they have I think we've heard this from police too, where it's like there's never just one contact person.

They get to know somebody and then the person turns over to a new position and then they just don't get a new contact number.

Um we've really tried hard to keep those updated, whether it's just Allegheny Lynx number or roots number.

Um but yeah, when I talk about like substance use programs.

Yeah.

A lot of these substance treatment programs are actually out of Allegheny County that we utilize as well.

Uh oftentimes we hear people who want to get treatment, they want to be far away from their network of people.

Uh they say you can't get well where you got sick, right?

Yeah.

Um so the those I think have historically been like the most difficult to coordinate with, where it's like we don't get regular updates for good reason.

They're also very strict about what information they share with outreach, and so it's really difficult to form this connection where we can make sure somebody is welcomed back into this county uh without just ending up on the street.

I was just gonna add one thing uh about um I I think for for many years the winter shelter is you know it's a life-saving measure for the most part, right?

And you add a bunch of shelter beds for a period of time.

I think what we're doing a bit better is trying to sort of triage what folks um what their needs are in terms of other housing opportunities.

We we opened up a just a small program this late summer and fall that was just like a 25 bed, we call it like a triage shelter, which just means that we were sort of really directly taking referrals from street outreach teams across the county to get people into that program and then help them sort of navigate the shelter system and other housing resources, maybe connect them back to the housing program if they're in one.

And so that work is continuing through the winter shelter, and then we we hope that that would continue in the in the springtime as well.

So I just think yes about next steps.

I think continuing that type of work going forward will just help.

One thing we saw last spring is that a lot of people who are using winter shelter as it was phasing out had been there like for for many weeks and months in the winter, and that's not the case so far.

People are not staying a long time.

Um but if if you make a shelter that's comfortable and pleasant, people tend to want to be there, they they get comfortable and that that's a good thing, but also um it's it's a limited resource as it will end.

So the more we work that we can do to help people navigate the housing system.

We're we're doing a lot of that now and just continuing that.

I would say for next year, I think something that has helped but needs to be increased is transportation.

That's the biggest barrier.

Um, particularly in the east end.

So maybe adding a stop or a sh or a shuttle in the homewood area that's experiencing a lot of homelessness, part particularly supporting um EECM.

I know our roots team has in zone five, our team lead has expressed that uh it'd be really helpful to work through that barrier of transportation in uh black and brown communities that don't have the same access and make sure that we, if possible, we get another um another shuttle or a shuttle stop because that has been amazing this year, having those extra stops.

And maybe maybe there's something we can do more now to enable um ECM to get people to winter shelter that um sort of driving the shuttle all the way out to zone five.

But um yeah, so that's something maybe we could maybe we could even do for this year.

Um I thought these were all good suggestions.

I agree with Ben, it is a real struggle, particularly with the hospital systems.

Um, who will who will let anyone go from there and you know, without it without necessarily the right discharge plan.

Um I I've heard some real horror stories with that, like people are still having IVs in and those kind of, you know.

Yeah, and while we work with them in those those situations, and we have plenty of partners there.

Systemically, I also agree with Ben that it hasn't gotten much better.

So it's something we have to keep working on for a systemic solution.

Um, we there's there's progress, and then it falls back sometimes.

Um I mean, ideally, I would say we're I don't think I mean I I if we're looking at next steps if in a really hopeful way.

If we can continue to bring on additional housing so that people stay in shelter for less and less time, we will need fewer and fewer shelter beds, and then we can reinvest that money into more housing, and then we will need fewer and fewer shelter beds, and then people will get what they want initially, which is which is housing.

And so um, that's why the the balance between um making sure people can be safe and have the shelter accommodations that they need, particularly on the most difficult weather nights, um, has to be balanced with investments in in housing.

And so um, I mentioned we we are issuing a solicitation quite very soon for additional housing resources.

Um we already talked about five hundred and five hundred as another pathway out.

Um, if we can if we can make these shelter stays really brief um and non-recurrent, um then we'll need fewer like I would love to be reporting fewer shelter beds with capacity in the system with people getting to what they really need.

Uh anything else.

All right.

Uh so thank you all for being here.

Um, and we will we will land this plane.

So having exhausted the business of the spost agenda, this meeting is adjourned.

Thank you all.

Thank you for your work.