Good morning and welcome to the pre-agenda interviews for Tuesday, January twentieth, two thousand twenty-six for the equipment leasing authority.

Would a clerk please read the title of the bill?

Bill Twenty-five resolution appointing Sharon Warner as a board member of the equipment leasing authority for a term to end March thirty-first, two thousand twenty-eight, serving the remainder of the term for a seat vacated by Lisa Frank.

And Bill Twenty-six resolution appointing Sheldon Williams as a board member of the Equipment Leasing Authority for a term to end June fifteenth, two thousand twenty-six, serving the remainder of the term for a seat vacated by Lee Schmidt.

And for the record, we're joined by Councilwoman Schrosberger and Councilwoman Warwick.

Moved to Pittsburgh in twenty seventeen with my family.

Um to be closer to family that we had here in Pennsylvania.

Uh, for the past eight years, first in a legal role, and then for the past five years as the chief operating officer of our corporate responsibility group.

Um our fleet and trying to figure out how we can shore up better resources for the great men and women who work for the city and need uh need vehicles that meet all of their needs.

Uh, worked in public safety first as a paramedic, then also as a police officer.

2011 I took a early retirement, had the time, not the age, so I could pursue ordination as a pastor, while also becoming a national expert in explosives where for which I taught across the country for many years.

In 2022, I then relinquished my post as a pastor and became a full-time faculty member at the University of Pittsburgh where I worked as an assistant professor in the emergency medicine program at the University of Pittsburgh, also responsible for that department's efforts in the School of Health and Rehabilitative Sciences and Community England.

My life service since being a young man has been serving and served as a public servant first and as one in the ministerial role, served the academia, served in academia and now come back to serve once again in this leadership role.

And so I just look forward to making these opportunities to lead our efforts.

I kind of communicate communicate often that I'm here to be at the bridge and I continue to be that which also brings me to why I'm accepting this role on this board.

Knowing the importance of our fleet and having a a fleet that is capable of responding to our needs versus one who had to use that fleet now being responsible to make sure we give the resources necessary so our people or men and women can do their jobs I look forward to opportunity to serve on this board.

Thank you very much.

And with that I'll open it up to members I'll start with Council Strasberger.

Thank you Mr.

Chair, Mr President, thank you both for your uh it's it's a it feels a little cart before horse no pun intended because we haven't yet actually um we're not confirming you you know fully for or we haven't had the opportunity to interview you or talk to you for your positions but um we understand that's more typical for directors and not chiefs but um uh uh really happy to be here today to discuss the equipment leasing authority and your positions on that on on that really important as you mentioned authority um given your backgrounds I think it's um bodes well for the authority and you know I'm grateful to my colleague who you'll hear from I'm assuming next council woman um Warwick um for starting the discussion this year as to you know ideas outside of the box to fully to ensure that our vehicle fleet is fully funded in future years when the council when it's a brand new council and there's no institutional memory of what we went through this past budget season which was reckoning with a budget that didn't sufficiently fund our vehicle fleet and the almost emergency status we're at at this juncture of understanding that we should be putting you know 31 million dollars per year into our fleet to dig out of the hole that we're in and having some some challenges with that so I'm I'm I'm open to that discussion I'm open to whatever discussion and I guess that leads me to my question or my um my hope and I guess it's a question of you know if there are ideas um either that you're willing to or ready to discuss now or not in the future that think about um creative new ways to dedicate funding to the ELA to our vehicle fleet to minimize the amount that we are um spending on repairs that could be unnecessary if we had newer vehicles um whether that is you know what we hear from other entities and other municipalities that we get conflicting ideas it might be okay that might not be okay per standards of you know of of using bonds to pay for fleet in in addition to other long-term uses you know we were at the engine 18 fire station right and understanding that that was a a a vehicle that was 20 years old maybe we shouldn't be 20 years old uh we shouldn't have 20 year old uh fire engines um supporting the city but um that's as long as some other assets that we have that we use bond payments to um to fund um but I guess you know if there are any ideas that that you can borrow from other places that you've worked other um municipalities um other levels of government I'm open to hear them now and if not um happy to continue that discussion you know at another time as I become more aware of the the issues uh one um hearing about it prior to coming to the government to begin my onboarding and starting to work to it I kind of got a grasp of kind some of the concerns that you all were kind of um explaining as we were going through the budget process and then my own even understanding of some of the issues I've had historically um just being a a person who was working on the streets and and what it put it initially in me was this burden of okay how do I step into this role as the public safety director even before assuming the post of being on this board how do I make sure we have the right resources secondarily I was even more alarmed as I become more aware of the issues and the problems and the magnitude of the problem for an example as you said we went and visited the station

And then my own even understanding of some of the issues I've had historically, um, just being a person who was working on the streets.

And and what it put it initially in me was this burden of okay, how do I step into this role as the public safety director, even before assuming the post of being on this board, how do I make sure we have the right resources?

Secondarily, I was even more alarmed as I become more aware of the issues and the problems and the magnitude of the problem.

For an example, as you said, we went and visited the station and they said they were using older equipment, but I was even more alarmed that even if we had the money today and could buy brand new fire trucks, it would take two to four years before they even hit the street.

And that's if we had all the monies today.

So to answer your question as I've become a more aware of the challenges, I would think that one of our issues, one of the things that would be my driving force is try to prevent the crisis moments wherever possible.

Um if that means that we have better ways of of viewing how we're managing our fleet fleet, are we managing them effectively as per the service, um, schedule service, stuff like that, and how we're responsive, but also having plans in place to make sure that we can at least um replace our fleet in more timely manner um wherever uh possible.

So thinking creatively would think about where do we buy equipment that might give us some some uh longer time and use out of our equipment, but also how we're effectively maintaining that to make sure we're staying on schedule so we can get the best use out of our equipment, and then making sure that we have a replacement schedule that keeps us from getting to crisis mode.

Yeah, and I would add to that, um, you know, as we are sort of getting a sense of what everything looks like at the moment, you know, it's we've been here for two weeks, and so we're trying to really get our arms around what is the current state, what is already in play, and then how are we prioritizing?

So it's really been a matter of sort of um just organizing how all of that looks at the same time looking at neighboring um municipalities, looking at municipalities across the country who may have different ways of doing this.

I think as you said, thinking outside the box, willing to look at pretty much any option that comes to us.

Some of them will be uh, you know, a no-brainer of, well, that's not going to work in Pittsburgh because of this reason, but some of them we might not have thought of and could work really well in our city.

So I think at the same time, we're trying to come up with new ideas, but really try and figure out, get our arms around what the current problem is and what it looks like.

Um I will say that the mayor himself is fully dedicated to this and I think is willing to look at any options that we might be able to bring to him on this front.

So um I do think you know we have his commitment as well to make sure that we get this, we get this done and we get it moving back onto the right path.

And I'll note that you know we have a really great um fleet manager who has put in with with that team put in a comprehensive prioritization list and you know, when when we can when we ask the question, it's even much more complicated than I think we realize or seen, but when we ask the question as council members, if we had um you know, 100 million dollars to spend today, do you know exactly where you spend it?

And they can say yes, that's a really good sign.

So you're starting from a place of strength in terms of knowledge, and then it's just about finding finding the funding to bolster that and finding a sustainable path.

Um it feels very much like we um it's almost it's almost difficult to triage at this point, and then to say what would we do if we had sufficient funding for you know five or ten years because no one has envisioned that.

So can we get to the point where we're not just saying this is what we need for next year, but this is what we this is the envisioning an actual um uh abundance of funding to be able to sustain us through the next five and ten years and get on solid ground again.

Um I'm I'm sure other questions will come up, but those are the main points that I had on my mind and what I wanted to hit today.

And um, you know, thanks for your willingness to serve, thanks for the willingness to really put all into this.

This is as you can tell, an incredibly important issue for council members going into this next year.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilman Warberg.

Yeah, thank you.

Um, so thank you for being here and you know, for your willingness to come work at the city.

I know it's it's a lot and it's a big responsibility, and you know, it's going for especially going from the private sector, it really is public service, right?

It's uh we don't do it for the money.

That's you know.

Um so yeah, just looking at um at your both of your resumes, and of course we'll talk about, but you know, I'm I'm very glad to see what I what seems to be two multitaskers for sure, right, with lots of experience, and um uh I I'm also I'm really glad to see um the you know the COO experience at PNC, you know, finance it, like you know, because all of these things, right?

And especially here we're talking about fleet like that really comes into play.

And of course, with public safety, having all the the um, you know, the various experiences across the public safety departments, right, to really understand the needs of the of the the the folks working on the ground.

Um that's very helpful.

And of course, in this conversation with the fleet, right, even more so if you have like the financial and the legal understanding too.

Um I know that the uh trans dev contract is not something that is is under the purview of the ELA, however, um that's something we've talked about a lot and would be and I know controller Heitzler has thoughts on that contract, and um it would be interesting to to have a some a f fresh eyes on that contract, right?

Uh from a legal perspective, um just in terms of what we should expect at the very least in terms of documentation, right?

Of um of repairs and whatnot.

Um but but at any rate, um uh so yeah, and as the councilwoman mentioned, uh uh Furman Maurice has or we we my understanding is that he has created a tracking tool, and I don't know how I haven't seen this tool, but um that it is uh a very effective tool.

So definitely sit down and take a look at that.

That really like breaks it down.

I don't know what the tool is, but that it really, you know, um so yeah, so you know, in in in uh a couple of different reports, one most recently from controller Heitzler, sort of the in order for us to get to 100% not capacity, but like 100% of our vehicles being like within their life expectancy range, right?

So we're not just like repairing endless repairs.

Um as someone who drives cars into the ground.

I know you get to that point, right?

Um yeah, so we're looking at 206.7 million over five years to get us to that 100% capacity, right?

Um so that would be roughly f you know, but we've about 41 million per year over five years.

So um uh as folks know I have a proposal on the table to set aside, you know, uh uh to oblige that OMB set aside or that the city set aside 20 million a year in the budget.

So from from my under for fleet.

Uh you know, what we've heard at the table sort of over and over again from DPW directors, public safety directors, you know, um our fleet manager, our budget director, uh procurement is that uh that is sort of the very minimum that we should be investing per year just to like keep our head above water, right?

Um and uh and we were able to do that, of course.

And I think too, you know, we were able to do that with the um tax increase this year.

We were able to put an additional 10 million in, like there was 10 million in, we were able to put in an additional, and so um uh I think carving out that amount also just for the taxpayers, right?

So that they they can see in, you know, that they can see that, you know, okay, well, it was a tax increase, but at least we know that this is going toward our core city services.

And I don't know how much so uh how much you had a chance yet, probably not too much.

It's only been two weeks, but to like, but you know, so so what we're what what we're hearing from for example from our teamsters is that you know, with like garbage trucks, you know, we have crews who are you know show up in the morning, but they don't have a truck, right?

So they have to sit and they have to wait for another crew to come back with a truck in order for that.

So that's not you know that's it, that's a DPW issue.

Snow plows, obviously we've seen um uh these past couple of snowfalls have been light, so it's been okay, but the there was a big one, I can't remember when it was back in December, maybe what was like I mean it wasn't even that big.

Oops, sorry.

Kids at home.

Apologies.

Um it was only like nine or ten inches, but we just couldn't we just couldn't get the snow up, right?

Um and uh and that's very frustrating to people.

And um sorry, apologies.

Um, and we have uh engines, you know, our our um our fire department is is concerned about having to you know getting to the point where they have to call up a council member and say, you know, hi council person, just FYI in this fire station we have an SUV and not a truck.

Not a not, you know, um just so um at any rate, I I know there's not I mean I uh ha you know happy to and I'm I'm actually interested at in thoughts about the about the use the using bonds because that's something that I've always thought, oh that could be you know, but but then it also affects our credit rating, perhaps.

I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.

It feels like bonds could be an option too.

I don't know.

I mean, I think anything's on the table at the moment.

Yeah, the mayor's office is happy to kind of look at every proposal that's out there.

I don't know that we're ready to to make comments specifically on that.

Um but I would say that you know as we as we start learning more about it and um we're able to look at your proposal, we're happy to, you know, have conversations about it.

Yeah.

Yeah, and also um uh again, and as I said with this with this proposal that I put, I'm gonna hold it so that everybody can have some ample time.

This is and the reason I put it forward now is so that we have the full year, right?

So that when we get into that twenty ample time before the the 2027 budget season.

Um but uh some concerns I've heard already um are you know, what if we have lots of money one year but not as much you know what I mean?

Like that but we still have but so I I feel like there we can certainly adjust language to allow for, you know.

If we had like a $60 million influx, could that then sort of cover three years of the fund or something like that?

Um I think too um and there's also always the concern of like just too many trust funds, right?

Just like every little thing we make a trust fund.

Uh and you know, like whatever the hot topic is at this moment, oh we create a trust fund and now that's not really the thing anymore, but that trust fund is still in place.

Um I definitely understand that for for some things, right?

But but for vehicles, I just don't really see a a world where we don't need vehicles every year.

You know what I mean?

And it really does affect like public, like directly affect the services that we provide, the type of things that residents are seeing every single day.

Um but at any rate, um, and also just in terms of outer year planning, right?

Like, because you do have to buy the vehicles a year, you know, even just a basic um snow plow, I think can take five to six months, you know what I mean, just to with all with the whole process, the procurement, all of that, and then getting it equipped and and um so just to know, you know, in the outer years, like okay, well, we know that we're gonna have at the very least this fixed amount of money in 27, 28, 29, 30, right, to to be able to to kind of plan ahead for those larger orders and those orders that take longer.

Um anyway, I'll if any any comment, happy to I know that wasn't really a question, it was more, you know, but uh I comment I wanted to add to um you represented, thank you for um uh what you were just commenting on.

And uh what one of the things the financial end is one of the ways that we can help prevent the delay, you know, um, of getting and addressing our fleet.

So thankful that you're thinking in that manner.

But I'm also uh I had one meeting um with with fleet management and um with the I've had um maybe one or two meetings with some of the the chiefs.

Um some of the concerns that I would like to make sure that we're also addressing is that we're eliminating any other delays.

And some of those delays, what I mean is like um one of the issues are are we really focusing all of our efforts to make sure that we understand fully uh we have immediate need as you have addressed.

We know the immediate need.

But inside that immediate need, what it want which w uh parts do we address first?

Can we put some prioritization towards addressing this so that it's not just everybody come and clamoring for replacement of fleet?

We have to sustain fleet for a period of time as we address these things, and I think that addresses your more strategic approach.

So I don't want to have the complicating delays by us trying to launch out, address some things without having some sort of a strategic plan.

And so some of those things are like I mean, we have a little bit of respite, I think I'll say a little bit of relief.

Um we have a substantial amount of police cars coming to us.

Um and I'm only not saying the number, it's a good amount of number because I want to be factual, but at least at that moment, I know that we're gonna be replacing a good portion or a sizable amount of our police vehicles, right?

Comes out of it, there's a capital budget and operating budget, I get it, but we have that.

So when I'm looking at fleet, if we're looking at it from a public safety, I know that we have some good standing with our police cars coming.

What do we prioritize?

Is it in fire and EMS and we start putting some attention there so we don't have any other delays.

And so that's what I would come back as just providing you asked about creative ways of thinking.

You're talking about how we're going to approach some of this need.

I want us to look at maintenance schedules, that there's no delays and how we're cycling those so that we have longevity.

What is the most prominent need that we have to address?

And so we're moving forward so we can address those in a timely fashion that doesn't keep us in this tension point of being in this crisis mode over the five years that we got to get to full replacement of our fleet if we did have the opportunity to do so.

So that's just what I would add.

I'm looking at what delay looks like.

There's a financial, but a delivery of vehicles, the maintaining of those, how we're re-getting vehicles back on the street, like it's a total encompassing aspect for me when I'm looking at our fleet management.

Yeah, that's that's actually that's interesting because I mean there is sort of some question about even just the overall role of the ELA, right?

Because the LA doesn't oversee the repairs, and it doesn't, you know what I mean?

It's really just the the sort of pre procurement of the vehicles, but there's so much more to it than that.

I know um there was some story in the news a while back about maybe it was like an ambulance that was we had it, but it wasn't out on you know, because of like an internal snafu, right, that kept the ambulance, you know, that wasn't out on the street, even though we it was ready to go.

Um and those are interesting questions.

Of course, from council, that's not really something that we you know, those that's that's operations, right?

That's like you know, like does you know, should each department have its own fleet man or how you know, or who's following up on on all of those things, you know, from sort of the the A to Z of getting a vehicle ordered and then on the street.

Right.

I mean, from my perspective, I think that's why it's probably so key that you have um the chief of operations for the city serving on this committee, because um I will have a sense of everything that's in the shop, everything that we know we can fix, and then it can be back on the road, or everything that we know, oh gosh, we're just putting a patch on this one.

We don't know how much longer it's gonna last.

So now we need to get back to ELA and figure out where where do the new purchases need to be made.

Yeah, but yeah, I mean, the idea is to have my arms around all of that.

Yeah.

And I'll agree too that uh I want to echo this piggyback off of what Sharon was saying.

Now be silent in my thinking.

Like I understand that the board has a responsibility on the procurement end of it, but I won't have silo thinking when we know that there are these other issues that are affecting our fleet, and so helping to guide our decision making moving it forward.

I think it's an informed position to be able to bring those forward.

I think too, there's maybe also something to kind of look at in terms of of um I don't know, the one that always comes to mind for me are the street sweepers, right?

Which are very expensive and break down all the time.

And but this is just anecdotal, but like as a council member the most complaints I hear regarding street sweeping actually doesn't have anything to do with street sweeping.

It's just has to do with like parking and the street sweeper not coming when it's supposed to come.

So you know what I mean, even just looking at that, like it's it's a service that we provide, but you know, is it not to say that we don't obviously you need to clean the streets periodically, but you know, overall, I and I don't know how much those vehicles, you know, what what percentage of costs and whatnot, those street sweepers um cover, but at any rate, yeah, lots of um lots of ins and outs.

Um, and picking like the right vehicles.

I mean, that's a DPW issue, you know, for you know getting the most bang for your buck out of a truck, right?

Like how many how many things can a truck do?

Um that's that's obviously a DPW specialty is a multitasking vehicle, you know.

Yeah.

Um then trim or there's just so much, right?

And then forestry needs them and all kinds of things.

So at any rate, I don't think I have if you have any other comments.

I don't think I have I'm just you know, this is obviously uh top of mind.

Of course.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I will say it's top of mind for the mayor's office.

Great.

Yeah, good.

We will be working on it.

Super.

Okay.

Well, thank you.

Appreciate it.

Yeah.

Thank you.

I saw Councilman Charlotte join us online.

Councilman Charlotte, did you have questions?

Yes, although um I don't have a lot of questions, I think uh the other members there uh are pretty aligned with kind of my thinking on things here.

Um so I will be relatively brief.

Um I do want to acknowledge, I think both member Strasberger and Warwick mentioned the possibility of a bond, which is something that we previously have not explored.

Um, but talking through with other municipalities and other levels of government, um, I think is something that we need to look at much more closely in the future here.

So I did kind of want to get your thought process.

Um I maybe we'll start with what I think the answer should be, but I I want to ask the question.

Um I really think one of the big problems that we have in the city is that we often think that we're a special snowflake here in Pittsburgh, and we don't want to learn from other municipalities, other levels of government, um, private industry.

Uh we we think that this is kind of a Pittsburgh specific problem, but we are not the only city that has a fleet that we have to maintain.

Um so I kind of wanted to hear from from both of your perspectives, where are you going to be seeking outside guidance?

Where do you plan on on learning um as you move into these roles?

Sure, I can I can take that one first.

Um I think obviously neighboring municipalities is the best first place for us to go because they will have a lot of the same issues, geographical, um weather-wise issues that we have here in Pittsburgh.

I also think that there's lots of other cities in the country um who face similar things um with their fleet maintenance and how they're managing their city fleets.

So we'll be looking to other cities as well.

And on the bond issue in particular, I would just say, as I said, um to council woman Warwick, um, you know, we are happy to look at it.

We're sort of taking up all ideas at the moment and looking through them.

So we're happy to have that conversation further.

Yeah, and not to just to echo those comments, but I was thinking the same.

Like there are similar cities to ours uh that have faced financial challenges that are similarly situated, so I think there's value in seeing what they do and what works well for them, what has worked well for them.

But also too that um I do know in some of these things when it comes to um the acquisition of some of this equipment, um, it's becoming increasingly more difficult, even like with um acquiring fire trucks because there's a limited amount of people who can even supply them.

And so I would like to know from others how they handling those challenges because there are just a large amount of requests across the country with a limited amount of manufacturers who are or even providing.

So how are they going around to make sure that they're replacing their fleet?

And so these would be the questions I would ask from those from around the country or for those who are similarly situated on how they manage these type of problems that we now face as well.

Yeah, and I I can't recommend enough.

Um if you I'm sure you wouldn't mind me mentioning his name, but uh former county uh county manager Willie McCain has a lot of thoughts on this um and has been really helpful for me and and I know other members as well as we think about how to reinvest in our fleet.

Um I I would really recommend having a conversation uh with him as soon as possible.

And he's always worked out.

Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt just to say I already have a meeting set up with him.

So it's on my list.

Thank you.

Good.

Good.

Glad to hear that.

Um the other thing, you know, I kind of wanted to mention uh again, um I'm kind of asking a leading question here.

Uh but when you're determining what vehicles we need to purchase.

Well, I I guess I'm not even gonna ask this question.

I'm just gonna kind of get over with a statement here.

One of the things that I know that happens when I spend time in my uh public works uh street division sites, are that there's always a feeling that folks at the top of the food chain are not listening to them.

Um a prime example was we uh we purchased a lot of these extended cabs in public works divisions that uh are helpful when we're doing you know uh street maintenance and like grass cutting and things like that in the summer, but are completely unusable for our tight streets in the in snow operations.

And they're you know, when I entered the divisions, they're they're usually like really excited to talk to me about these things as if I'm the the one who's who's doing the purchasing um and that that I can you know help them buy smaller pickup trucks or or whatever might be.

And I really just encourage that instead of just talking to the directors and just talking to you know the the chiefs and and folks that are at the top of the food chain to really talk to kind of the uh folks that are actually doing the work and actually operating the machinery uh as as to what their needs are and what would work better.

You know, uh there's a lot of examples of uh things that are kind of like silly little changes that we can make that would make their lives a lot easier, and those are often you know, either they don't get through the food chain in the right way or they uh are ignored, or there are other balancing priorities there.

But uh in your both of your roles uh as members of the ELA, but also in your um your full-time job roles, which uh I'm excited to talk with you about in the future here.

I want to make sure that's something that you're always kind of keeping at the forefront that we can have the best idea of how vehicle purchasing should work, but if we're not talking to the people that are actually driving the trucks, um then we're not uh doing right by residents of Pittsburgh.

So there's not really a question there, um, but I just just wanted to to state that that it's something I constantly see as you know as we spend time in in the divisions and in the firehouses that we're we're actually talking to the people that are using the equipment.

Uh council member Charlene, I uh I totally um hear you and um want to assure this council that that's one of the perspectives I bring um in this role that I know what it's like to be that person to ask to use the equipment, not exempting anybody else's experience.

And I bring that forward not to forget that um and having some of them saying conversations uh when I'm utilizing equipment that um has been dispatched to us.

So uh we've already had in my limited meetings already about streamlining processes, uh making requests that we get these early blueprints and specs of vehicles um as per the need and is recommended by those um who are sending it up, but we would streamline the processor again going back to my delay thing.

Um we don't want these spec sheets coming to us so late in the year that procurement gets frustrated because now we have to run out with trying to expedite some of that that we get the adequate equipment um that that's being requested so we can get that into queue and be able to acquire it.

So I do receive exactly what you're saying and embrace exactly what you're saying.

I I just say I agree, it's great advice, and uh we plan we plan on following it.

Yeah, I I just it sometimes is amazing we have you know three thousand or so employees in the city, and when you get out of Grant Street and and talk to the folks that are you know in the firehouses or medic stations or whatever, sometimes it feels like no one has listened to them for years and they've got lots of ideas on how things could work differently, and they're uh uh viewpoints they are you know sometimes I I just think they're frustrated that they they said why we can't move to you know this type of vehicle here or why this isn't gonna work, and no one really listens to them because someone on Grant Street in a conference room made a decision.

Um and it's you know, there's a there's a lot of knowledge that is just missed from not having those conversations, so I I can't encourage it enough.

But with that, uh I look forward to to meeting with you both.

Um I think we've got I think both of you meetings coming up soon here uh privately and look forward to those conversations and with that, council president, uh thank you.

Thank you.

Councilwoman Gross Assata, you also joined us.

Did you have questions?

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, and apologies for not being there in person.

Um just a couple of thoughts as I listen to my to my colleagues.

Um I I also want to give um everyone in council shout out for hosting the many post agendas on the fleet that we've had in the last year, and I hope that you all have had a chance to review all of those deep discussions on the fleet.

Um I always recommend to the public and to um anyone else who wants to watch a legislative session to do that on YouTube because you can watch it at double speed.

So um I hope you'll avail yourselves of those.

And I also um recalling how unhappy um council was at needing to approve a nearly $13 million a year maintenance agreement.

Um we reduced the length of that contract from 10 years to six years.

And we did so because it seems that our fleet is really struggling with maintenance, and so I'm glad that you all touched on that a little bit with operations.

Um doing this kind of like learning and digging in through all of these legislative and post-agenda sessions in the last year or two.

I I am been wondering if it is wise for us, I think I said this recently in the budget season as well to incorporate um maintenance records, right?

Maintenance kind of um whatever we know about different types of vehicles and their maintenance needs into our purchasing decisions.

So there's been a kind of industry trend, a municipal trend for the last 10 or 20 years or so for customization and um specification, and that does fold into those long production times, which we're now seeing, but it also leads to many of the vehicles being out of service for too long of a period.

And when we're running at such tight margins on the number of vehicles that we have, what's really hurting our delivery of services to our public is that you you'll see these reports of a third of the vehicles being in the maintenance shop.

So part of that we know, we know is due to just their those vehicles being too old.

But it's also true, and certainly you will be more expert than me here as you um sit on this authority and learn more about specific vehicles that are on the market.

We all know this is as consumers.

Sometimes the new stuff you buy is actually really crappy.

So at all levels, right?

From vehicles to small consumer goods.

So in your talking to other municipalities in your research, being looking out whether it's uh a tiny sedan that's just you know, inspectors are using to drive around the city all the way up through our DPW trucks and then up into our fire engines.

You know, what are other places experiencing and is is there I don't know the answer to this, but I I it is a question that keeps coming up for me.

Are we setting ourselves up for some kind of failure and significant cost by not by over specifying and over-customizing vehicles?

Um is there some more generic vehicles that would have more dependability and lower costs?

Because we all are frustrated by paying nearly 13 million dollars per year to a company, right?

We're outsourcing our vehicle maintenance, and yet all we have is problems.

Um just a level another level of questions that I have that I I certainly don't have the expertise to answer.

I don't know if you have any thoughts.

The only thought that I would add to that, I mean, there's wisdom and what you're suggesting, like um is what's being requested actually based off of needs and appropriate needs um and making sure that that we're supplying what we exactly need to accomplish the task.

And that comes back to uh a balance between what Councilmember Charlotte was saying too that make sure that we're um addressing these and hearing from those who have to utilize it.

But the balance between that to make sure we're getting the adequate equipment and resources so we don't have some of these complicating factors moving down the road, but there's wisdom to what you're suggesting there, and I and I hear you clearly.

Yeah, I would just add it'll it will be interesting to look at.

So thank you for bringing this up.

Looking at the vehicles that we fought in recent years that have been more customized, and whether that has led to um more difficulty in maintaining those vehicles or being able to repair them, excuse me, or finding the right parts or whatever it might be.

Um so that's definitely um a good point to make and to be looking at as we move forward.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

It just seemed to be a pattern um that it was obviously I think mostly 80%, 85%, 90% maybe of the explanation uh has historically been like, well, you know, that truck is 10 years past its you know, service life.

And uh, but then what about that 15% margin, right?

And if we're talking about a 1990s truck, those you know might have actually been built better than the truck that we're able to buy in 2026.

Right?

And so um there certainly have been some you know, cars have gotten more computerized, trucks and all this kind of level of specificity.

I saw in the news we just had an electrical fire um on the streets of one of our Ford trucks that was being used as a snowplow.

Um so it's just uh yet another difficulty to look out for, but we want to make sure that we're not um if there's any way we can bring down that maintenance contract cost, it's just killing us, right?

It's just way, way too high.

Um and I'll throw in um just to follow up on Councilman Sherland that another example of vehicles that were purchased that were too large uh were our compressed natural gas waste haulers that were so largely they couldn't make the turns.

A lot of my district uh the garbage cans are out in alleys, and there might be the streets and the alleys might have been laid out in 1860, 1870s.

Um, and so the trucks were actually damaging people's properties trying to make those bands.

We certainly don't need that.

So I see other places in the country and around the world buying smaller vehicles.

Now I I totally understand that there's a whole complicated flow chart of what else you would have to change with the how much crews you have and the frequency of runs to the dump and all that kind of stuff.

So I look forward, I won't do it now, because my colleagues have heard this many times, and so has the public.

But I will bend your ear on another time about um the tonnage of waste that we haul out to our landfills and um how to cut that down, and councilman Laval and I will both cajole you about municipal composting at a similar time.

Thank you.

That's all I have, Mr.

Shear.

Thank you, Coach.

Thank you, Councilwoman.

It's that's the topic of she's brought me along the ride for that conversation.

Let me see if anyone else has joined.

No one else has joined.

First, thank you for your willingness to serve is critical.

Other members have sort of touched on it, and this just is I don't have just I'm asking the question with an answer that I don't know.

I guess my question is if you have thoughts on how do you actually prioritize what vehicles were actually acquiring?

Every member has brought forward a concern, whether it's the compression vehicles, councilwoman just spoke about they can't make the terms, whether it's the uh the workers showing up who actually don't have the trucks available to do the trash pickup, whether it's residents calling us frustrated uh about snow removal, and the issue isn't that we don't want to remove the snow, it's that we have people sitting on the sidelines we don't have the vehicles, or halfway through the snow removal, the vehicles break down.

Or even in your experience, having worked on EMS side and the police side.

I'm just curious if you have thoughts on of this large problem that we have.

How do you then go about prioritizing?

Do we need the police vehicle, which we know some are coming?

Do we need the EMS vehicle?

Do we need the like how do you go about prioritizing or thinking about how to prioritize in which way we move in terms of actually acquiring the vehicles we need?

I think asking some of the questions that would help inform the plan, that long-term plan is again, we know what the status of the fleet is.

It's pretty horrible, needs replaced.

But are there vehicles that can buy us more time while we address the ones that we we have limited amount of time?

And that's gonna have to come with a lot of engagement on multiple layers here to figure that kind of question out.

It's a question out there that we have to keep asking and keep pursuing because there's a lot of unknown there.

I know this though, that we can't have vehicles just burning up on the street water out there operating, right?

And so if that's uh public works need, everybody's gonna have need everybody's clamoring for the replace their vehicles, but we have to strategize in a way that says, how can we buy enough time with what we have while we address the more immediate need?

And I mean immediate, I know we have a uh standing immediate need, we have to replace the fleet.

But there has to be a process, and I don't know all the steps about going to accomplishing that, but we have to ask the questions.

And so, based off of the responses that we get, we can then be able to look at a plan that says acquire this in you know, year one, year two, year three, if we can even get time moving us that far down the road.

Again, the best answer would be is to wave the magic wand and have all the money and replace the fleet today.

Not gonna happen.

And since that's not gonna happen, then we have to take this thing in a you know, make more compartment compartmentalized way, but not just addressing it.

What I don't want is this the rush to try to replace something when there's a greater need over here.

And that's gonna come.

That's why I said I don't want silo thinking.

I want to know in the aggregate what is our biggest problems so that we can see this and map this out.

And it may take some people waiting longer than they would like, but you know, holistically, that might be what's necessary so we can address these needs that have uh it's a more immediate need that we have to address.

Right.

I mean, to to piggyback off of that, I would say when you think about it at first glance, it seems like it's not that complicated.

But it's so complicated because there's so many, there's so many um different pieces that you have to put into the calculation.

So you have to look at what the current fleet is.

You have to look at how long each of those vehicles is meant to last.

You have to look at um what's the cost of maintaining that vehicle?

What's the timing of getting a replacement for that vehicle?

What's the price for a replacement?

So it's all those things that you have to kind of put into the matrix, and then overlaying with that public safety needs, and do we need to prioritize certain public safety needs above other things?

So it sounds to me, as far as I know so far, our fleet director has a great list, priority list um started.

So I think that's where we start.

Um, and then just digging into that and getting a sense of you know why certain things are where they are, do we need to rearrange certain things, and at the same time, trying to come up with lots of other options of ways to fund, you know, how we do this moving forward.

Thank you.

My second question, I'm just curious again, of your thoughts, and this sort of when Councilman Gross was talking sort of talking about the new and the new shiny things that aren't always better, it brought to mind sort of EV, right?

And just curious of your thoughts as some we have moved and in a direction towards using electric vehicles, but that also requires infrastructure cost um in order to have the appropriate charging stations.

I'm just curious in in general in your thoughts of moving more towards electric vehicles, because they also do pose additional problems sometimes in terms of fixing them as well as the infrastructure that is also necessary to maintain that sort of a fleet.

Yeah, I was gonna say, like uh, you know, um it it there's advantages towards moving towards that.

I mean, you know, multiple advantages mechanically, environmentally, stuff like that.

There's some advantages to that.

But with that being said, it is the timing of moving to that um is that now.

And so you point to a very good question that what we don't want to do is be limited, you know.

As an example, there's vehicles out there that are nice and new, but there are limited amount of mechanics that can work on them.

You know, I'm talking about just general vehicles.

So we don't want to be uh uh get into a scenario where we might have an opportunity to capitalize on something by getting in vehicles, but limit our ability to service them in the in the in the in the right way or maintain them.

So we don't want these complicating factors.

I think moving to that, they would have to be part and parcel to the whole system.

Are we able to really address and and maintain those vehicles in the appropriate manner because the last thing we want is to have new vehicles sitting someplace not being used because we don't have the infrastructure to be able to repair them or if we went straight EV, do we have the infrastructure to recharge them or we limit it on ourselves.

So it might be some places that that might be appropriate where others might not be so fitting and like a public safety not saying it isn't I'm just using example where that might be.

So I think it takes some thought process to move forward but we don't want to complicate the problem by moving into these type of technologies as well.

And I'd say you know we have already seen some issues with trying to bring EV vehicles into the fleet and all the associate costs that go with that.

Sometimes it's a one-time expenditure that you can get a charging station up and running and that can be used for many different vehicles but we haven't we haven't actually been able to build that full infrastructure yet so whether it's worth that extra cost at the moment we're gonna have to sort of put into our um cost benefit calculations and try and figure out if that is a direction that we want to go in.

But I think to your point we are well aware that um going that route sometimes is a great idea and sometimes might just add extra um burden to the fleet thank you.

And then lastly it's not a question more of a sort of a a request um many around this table have expressed a sincere interest in our vehicles or in our fleet um even around budget cycle you heard councilman charlin speak to the idea of bonds Councilman Strasberger spoke to it Councilwoman Warwick has put a bill on the table about in terms of how much we need to invest in this so it's more of I would just hope that the ELA is in consistent conversation with council in terms of how we move forward how we ultimately do prioritize the purchasing of our vehicles identifying the need um so that when we come around and it's really around budgeting more than anything else that we're sort of walking into our yearly process as informed as possible to be able to make decisions.

So it's more of a let's work hand in hand to try to address this more than so it's not a question more of a a request which I don't think is a big one but um councilman Strasberger.

Thank you Mr.

President I just had one additional thought um relative to EVs um is the former environmental advocate my ears perk up with that um and that is the idea that I think came up a lot as we were grappling with this year's budget and I think this is an actual actually an interesting um opportunity to to mention it that um to prevent the silos also um as a city relative um compared to other levels of government and if we can break down silos for cost efficiency or other types of efficiency for example I don't know if it's possible but one example could be we see it we we actually have as a list of priorities like environmental considerations in the ELA list of priorities and so this push to go to EVs could it be addressed through a shared agreement with the county with PRT with the school district right like we all go in on the cost of the charging station and therefore can reap the benefits of avoiding fuel costs sooner by you know sharing the upfront cost like as an idea and I wonder if the ELA um just as an as a as a general idea not just on EVs but if the ELA can also if the members can be can consider um uh shared cost agreements with other levels of government which is something I'm interested in at all level at all levels of the city but um this could be an interesting exploration as well thanks yeah same um it's very interesting I don't you know as I learn more about um roles and responsibilities um that just from my own budgeting kind of mindset that I mean is wise to look at where we could actually leverage some of those opportunities even with purchasing and stuff if they do present themselves so if it's possible I'm right noted exactly yeah thank you thank you a very good point councilman Warwick um yeah thanks so just as um and I appreciate Councilman uh Charlot's comments about sort of talking with the boots on the ground about their needs um and it it reminded me of something that I wanted to just say for the record and I recognize this is not an ELA issue but since we're talking about fleet and we're talking right is that um you know it's obviously an operations question you know there's sort of this narrative um out in the ether right like out in the public you see it on Facebook a lot and whatever this notion that um that the city like went on a hiring spree like we have too many workers like we just have workers all over the place that don't have enough to do but you know just sort of on behalf of our laborers and our team serves like all all the work we do especially in the D well in I haven't heard of so much around public safety it's more around DPW that you kind of hear this narrative is um you know we need

You see it on Facebook a lot and whatever.

This notion that um that the city like went on a hiring spree.

Like we have too many workers, like we just have workers all over the place that don't have enough to do.

But you know, just sort of on behalf of our laborers and our team service, like all the work we do, especially in the D well in a I haven't heard of so much around public safety, it's more around DPW that you kind of hear this narrative is um, you know, we need hands to do this work, right?

You need workers to do the work.

And the problem has been not that we don't have that we have too many workers, but that we don't have the vehicles that they need to do their work, right?

And um, I think that's just really important to underscore just kind of over and over again.

Um, you know, uh everything we do with the city is incredibly labor intensive, right?

Like every single service we provide.

Um and we do have a lot of new workers.

Um so you know, I think that just for you as the you know, operations, right, is that um, you know, conversations around like you know, training.

Do the people we have know, you know what I mean?

Are are they are they as skilled as sort of some of the old timers that have been doing this type, whether it's plowing streets or cutting back weeds or doing bottles or whatever all the work is, you know, are they as as um well trained as some of the the the older folks who've been doing it for 20 years, you know.

Um also um the do they have the tech that they need?

Because you know, one thing that I heard, for example, with snow with snow um plowing is that um because that was a question that came up in one of the I don't know if it was in one of the post agendas, but it was like, well, what what are we doing if there's two work if there aren't enough trucks, right?

And there's two workers that show up to work, uh what are we doing?

And and I I recall one answer was well, sometimes we'll have two people in the truck, one to read the route on a piece of paper, right?

Like read the route to the driver.

And so that is just like really, we just aren't giving our workers the need.

And no wonder, right?

We'll be like, my street got missed.

It's like, well, I mean, no one can you imagine.

I mean, that's it makes me think of like my mother back in the early 90s with the printing out the Google maps, you know.

Like so, so you know, that we we need that technology, and that's obviously part of the what's it the equipment on the vehicles, and I don't know where we are with that, like I'm not you know that versed well versed, but um, but just to just to really underscore that it's i it's all it all comes down to the vehicles, right?

Um and then once we have the vehicles, then you know, our newer workers, you know, getting them trained up on how best to use those vehicles, whether it's the sprayer for the salt or whatever it may be, I don't know, you know, that's um that's part two.

That's that's step two.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I would just go back to what I said at the very beginning of this meeting, which is I view my job in many ways is to make sure that the people who are on the ground and doing this work have the resources that they need and resources can mean vehicles and also training and also technology and you know, whatever other things that we can do to help them do their jobs in a better way.

Um that is my goal in doing this.

Great, thank you.

Thank you.

Um lastly I'll simply say Councilman Coghill wasn't able to be here today.

He apologizes for his absence, but I will say he has been a fierce champion for our fleet since his time on the ELA board, and he continually presses this issue with council as well as the administration.

So you have a very uh fierce advocate on this side of the table that'll be working with you, and I know he looks forward.

I believe you have a meeting on Thursday.

Um with that, no further questions, then we've exhausted the business of this pre-agenda and this meeting is adjourned.

Thank you all.

Thank you.

Thank you.