Good afternoon and welcome to the preagenda interview for Wednesday, February eleventh, two thousand twenty-six.

So I will read it and then afterwards I would like you to say I do.

I affirm whatever your word of choosing.

If you have any opening remarks, or if you just want to tell us a little bit about yourself while you're interested to serve in this position, and then we'll open up for questions.

Um this has uh been a long time coming, and um when I um saw this was a potential opportunity to serve as the director, um, I immediately jumped at it.

So um I come from an architecture and urban design background.

Um, but I feel like I I bring a unique skill set here because I've worked both between the the private sector departments, residents, you know, stakeholders, all kinds of interests, and I feel like I try to understand the issues that impact planning as a whole and impact our neighborhoods, and so um I try to bring that balanced approach to city planning and um recognizing that sometimes hard decisions have to be made, but that's what we're here for.

So I'm excited to build, you know, continue to build a department that is using its expertise to be a resource for its residents.

Like I'm you know, I feel like I came to work for all of the residents of Pittsburgh and particularly um the council people represent those residents, and so I'm excited to work together to address any issues that you're coming across in your neighborhoods across the city.

Um I'm also very big on communication and transparency.

So I know there's been a lot of challenges in the last couple of years around you know, some projects and so forth, and so I'm really working to um communicate clearly about what planning does so that there can be a better um better working relationship and um hopefully people in the neighborhoods, you know, come to know us as a resource.

So um we have a great team over there, and I'm really hopeful for you know the next few years to do some good things in Pittsburgh.

Thank you.

With that, we'll open it up to members with questions.

We'll start with Councilman Mosley.

Okay.

Thank you for your willingness to serve.

Um and thank you for a great conversation.

I don't know if it was a week ago or two weeks ago at this point.

Uh we had opportunity to touch base, and obviously we know each other very, very well.

Um had the opportunity, you know, to see your work um in the community and in the district that I represent prior to my time as a council member and even since I've been on council.

Uh I I guess my f my first question um is is a question that I posed to you when we we sat down in private.

Um, you know, is is just sharing your thoughts about the role that the Department of City Planning can play, you know, in in addressing, you know, this you know, wide-ranging challenge that we have around housing, you know, addressing affordability as well as increasing the inventory, you know, uh of housing, you know, and obviously the Department of City Planning does not go out and build houses.

Yeah, you know, um, and I think that's important, as you say, of clarifying, you know, the role.

But you know, clearly there is a role to play in that larger, you know, ecosystem.

Yeah, you know, as we try to bring, you know, more housing inventory of all typologies and price points online, um, you know, obviously with uh a lens for the most vulnerable, um, you know, and and you know, and and those who have felt the impact, you know, uh of this placement over the last you know 10 or 15 years, but you can just share your thoughts about you know, within that larger ecosystem that would include you know the housing authority and even the county government, um, nonprofits and obviously for-profit entities, but where do you see this the Department of City Planning like sitting within that broader ecosystem?

Um well I am hoping that city planning is gonna serve as both like professional expertise on best practices nationally and a convener in these conversations.

So, you know, our job is you know, all these people are trained around like what can we do to build more housing to keep it affordable to ensure a mix of types, and we need to really be exploring like every tool at our disposal nationally, and we know some stuff that has worked and not worked, and we know there's some stuff at the table.

Um, but I do believe also in incremental change and that we need to make progress on the low-hanging fruit and then continue to expand um further opportunities for housing.

And um I think you know we have to constantly keep in mind all of the you know residents of Pittsburgh, like and like you were saying, that includes the most vulnerable, it includes like you know, middle class families, like Gerad and I, you know, it includes like people that you know are um at higher income levels and we need to try to figure out how to find a middle ground that helps the majority of our residents in the city as a whole and is not pitting us against each other.

I think there's a lot of um uh what's the word?

There's been a lot of like us versus them and sort of like people pitting each other again, and I think we all want to make a better city, and we need to figure out how to work together to get to those solutions, and acknowledging that not everybody's gonna get what they want all the time, but we are incrementally improving the city and making sure that we protect the people that are here, you know, and we give them options to grow old in their neighborhood if they want, you know.

I would like to see my kids come back to Pittsburgh, and so I'm on a mission to have this be the city that they want to come back to, even though I have a freshman in DC, you know.

So it has not been a choice of many people of color to you know reach their professional aspirations here, but I'm hoping we can create a city that um our kids can come back to.

And so it's just gonna mean like working better together with the URA, with the housing authority, with council at large to make some change in this space.

And I have some thoughts about other tools that haven't been explored here and city planning is you know, going to explore and seeing what's a good fit for Pittsburgh.

I thank you for that.

And um, and then also in our conversation you talked about the fact that you are a certified city planner.

Um if you could talk a little bit about that particular expertise and why do you see it is so important for this role and being that you are a certified city planner, you know, what does that mean, you know, for this particular role.

Yes.

Um I understand, I mean where do I start here?

Okay.

So I try to explain to people like city planner, the planning profession, it's a profession, like doctors and lawyers, right?

And for much time it like in the recent, like even though I've been in Pittsburgh for 25 years, and I've worked in a large part of that time nationally, then I ran my own practice here, like half locally, half national.

But um I feel that city planning has not owned its role in providing professional expertise on a lot of these issues.

And all of us that got into planning, um, clearly have a passion for hard things.

So we have, you know, we have an education in understanding how cities developed, how you know, mistakes that have been made by planning in the 70s when people were trying to do the right thing, and all the crazy stuff around like why public housing ended up the way it ended up.

And so we are trained in the development of cities, what has not worked over time, how to be careful about making decisions in the future, and so forth and so on.

And we need to deploy that expertise in working with city government here in Pittsburgh.

So I try to tell people like if you broke your arm and a doctor told you you needed a cast and to do XY and Z, you would follow it.

Like these people at planning, we have the professional education and expertise to make recommendations.

And sometimes I think like being on the other side of planning as a consultant, like I've seen them take a more passive attitude.

I think no fault of their own, you know, but I think this is a new day where we need to, you know, take pride in that expertise, share it.

It's not necessarily always gonna be taken as the way forward, but you know, we need to share what's working and has worked nationally and since the beginning of time when cities were formed.

Um just hopefully, you know, come to respect, I think the the expertise of the profession as a whole.

Sure.

And there are any you know particular, you know, strategies and policies and approaches um that you see um you know from your national perspective, um, you know, as well as from you know your observation and and study, you know, um do you see particular cities?

I mean, because I think sometimes, you know, we'll look at Austin and Seattle and Minneapolis and know like they're in a much different place.

You know, they're actually kind of where Pittsburgh probably was like in the 1930s and 1940s, as far as you know, the like their growth.

But cities like Pittsburgh that are you know, Rust Bell cities that are trying to rebound.

Um, you know, are there particular best practices that you're seeing other cities that are in similar positions as Pittsburgh, prime for rebound, um, that that you would like to see from the city planning perspective, things that we should be implementing and things we should be thinking about as policymakers.

Yeah.

So for example, I took a recent trip randomly to Chattanooga, Tennessee, which is phenomenal.

And if you've ever been there, it's on a it's on a river.

It's not three rivers, but it's on a river.

It lives on two sides of that river that are both arguably equally active.

The downtown, there's colleges there, there's a medical, a strong medical presence, so very similar to Pitt, you know, and so forth.

And they have revitalized this downtown to the point, you know, they have a huge student population that apparently does like tend to stay there.

They have lots of visitors, they're connected to natural resources that you know, like we are with the mountains, and um a strong like philanthropic community.

And so I feel like somehow they figured out how to work planning, the elected officials, philanthropy, the university, somehow they got organized to create a physically amazing place that you're like, oh my god, like the parks on the river, you know, are activated with all kinds of elements, like they're serving young to old, and I mean, I feel like I would live there in a heartbeat, you know, and so we have many of the same physical attributes, and um my previous firm that I was at UDA, like they've were working there a long time ago, and I know Chattanooga has been working at this for a long time, so it's not that it's gonna happen overnight, but at least if you're they have a very coordinated approach on how you move together, um that's something that right now I'm really hoping to get to like I've you know spoken with the mayor, like if we're all working from the same playbook and each doing our part of the work, you know, and um staying in our lane that we can make more coordinated progress together.

So and I don't want to um you know exhaust all the oxygen, you know.

My my my final question is you know, given um that you know that you've worked in so many spaces within this ecosystem, and obviously, you know, you know, your resume speaks for itself, what you know has called you, you know, to put this hat on, you know, come back out of the private sector.

Um like I've I mean I've seen you in community meetings with the Lombard Consensus Group, I've been to Charettes with you in Wilkinsburg around transportation planning, uh, but what what has called you um you know, and I and I thank you for your willingness to serve.

My final question is, you know, what is called you know for you to step out of the private sector um in into this public sector role.

Um I think because at some point I realized that I mean city government and the planning department has the capacity to like set the conditions and the rules for good things to happen.

So all of us in the private sector like we're operating in that system, but we cannot affect the system as a whole.

And if I have the opportunity to like create better conditions for success in Pittsburgh, I will have a greater impact than doing it out here in the private sector and um what was I gonna say?

Um so I think it's the level of impact that while I thought about this long and hard, and it comes with different challenges, you know, um we have the power in city government to really set better conditions for our residents if we're willing to do so.

So I want to give it a shot.

Thank you.

Well, again, thank you uh for your willingness to serve.

You know, you know I hold you in very high regard as well as your family, your husband, Gerard, your daughters, you know, our children know each other, and I hope um you know your daughter's enjoying her time at America.

So hopefully she doesn't have too much fun in DC over the next few years and wants to come back to Pittsburgh.

You know, I'm struggling with the same thing.

I have a son who wants to go to Moorehouse in about a year, and you know, Atlanta is the A.

And Gabby's living her best life in DC.

But you know.

So but uh again, I thank you for your willing to serve, looking forward to working with you in a whole other context as we you know worked together numerous times in the past, and I defer my time back to the chair.

Thank you.

Next to the table was Councilman Warwick.

Great, thank you.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Um, I'm I was very excited when I saw your name come up because obviously we have worked for a long time together on uh you know, both in difficult situations, sort of, and it's kind of like opposing sides, but um also together, obviously your work with the Hazelwood Green, um uh and and your engagement with the Hazelwood community, which you know I appreciate.

And you've always, you know, you always are open and engaged and and and and handle conversations with Grace, even when they get difficult, you know.

So I think that's right.

That's nice.

Reno, but it's important, you know, it's important because um a lot of times with these planning conversations, they are they are difficult.

So um, or they can be.

Um yeah, I mean, I I also sort of a similar, you know, sort of like this this this question mark about what is the role of the planning department.

Um and um and I know that you know, for myself and I think also for you know, we see there's all these plans, so you know, there's um you know, PRT's got a plan, and we're doing a plan, and the county's doing a plan, and then the school has this thing going on, and like all the, you know, and and then there's our utilities and all, and so it's like are are any of these things talking to each other, or are they kind of uh operating in silos, and then even within the I mean I sort of would be inclined to see the planning department as sort of like the glue that holds that you know that fits all the other departments into each other so that we are all talking to each other.

Um, you know, whether that's communication with council members, again, other bodies of government or uh departments.

So I don't know if you have any comment on that.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm hoping to get to the point where we're the glue.

You know, it's it's gonna take some work and intentionality to get there, but one of my kind of like first 30 days thing was to understand and further define the role of the neighborhood planners, for example.

So and what I've said, you know, in-house is that like if you're serving Hazelwood, it is your job to know like anything that's kind of on the table planning wise in Hazelwood, whether it's coming from like you're saying, like PRT or whatever, you know, these other places that it is your job, like you guys know your district for us to know our neighborhoods and to you know, once we hopefully pick up monthly conversations with council that we're a resource where you're just like, well, is there anything else in Hazelwood happening that I should know about?

Or if you come to us and are like, what's up with that PRT plan, you know, that we have some familiarity with it.

So I'm on board with being the glue, number one, and I think that is the piece about city government that I understood to be the biggest challenge is the siloing of roles and information, you know, and even in my office of 56 people, like if uh, you know, we have five divisions, but they might talk to you about different things, right?

So I'm like, if you're over here talking about Hazelwood stuff, are you talking to the person on the other side of the office about Hazelwood?

And we're gonna start doing that.

Like even though you're in different divisions covering different topics, there needs to be a thread, you know, more for like I'm trying to center the resident and the normal person in understanding planning and engaging with them.

Like they don't care when we're at a community meeting.

Like we started meeting with the mayor's office and community affairs.

Like when three people show up at from the city at a community meeting, they might not distinguish or care whether you're from the mayor's office, city planning, community affairs.

They don't care.

They told somebody at the city and they hope that it gets addressed, you know.

So I've spoken with the redevelopment people and community affairs in the mayor's office, and we're trying to have a coordinated approach of like anybody who's touching like physical land use things needs to meet quarterly, you know, we're gonna try to set up quarterly.

Anybody who's like on the ground doing engagement, like your staff, community affairs, our engagement people are gonna meet quarterly also and and stay at least in constant communication.

So um it is one of my missions, I guess, to get there and any ideas from you guys, like I think in my one-on-ones, I have proposed, you know, monthly check-in meetings or whatever works for your district and staff, and I'd like to see more staff-to-staff communication, you know, that hopefully is ongoing so that less things fall through the cracks.

Um yeah, I think I'd be curious too to hear your thoughts about so one thing I noticed specifically with you, right?

Working in Hazelwood when you're you know, working with um uh Tishman was, you know, in community meetings, it was often quite helpful.

The community would be talking about a thing.

Yeah, whatever, community benefits agreements or like something, right?

That is a need.

And um, and while I appreciate the role of the neighborhood planner to kind of listen and absorb uh it is also very helpful to have someone who can advise and who can help organize and be like, okay, so you know, for example, this is one thing that comes up in it.

We we know you know everybody knows they want a community benefits agreement, but what is that?

How do you get education?

How do we get started?

And it's not something that I have the bandwidth to do, and and so um I'd I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Yes.

Okay.

This is very simple.

With so I met, I'm meeting with all the divisions to understand what they do and what their priorities are for the year, and yeah, to get an understanding of the lay of the land before you know uh making any major changes.

But one thing with the neighborhood planners that I noticed the same thing because I was always in that community meeting with you listening, and um what I'm understanding that has happened, like these are back to professionally trained people that have good ideas.

There's a ton of good, smart people there, and we are not there just to listen.

We are not there just to listen or to take notes.

Like from now on, like you are serving as a advisor, convener, interpreter, like if somebody asks a question from the audience and it wasn't understood by the other side, reframe the question or whatever you need to do to um help the conversation move along.

Like they have professional expertise that they I think want to deploy, and for whatever reason hasn't been happening as much, and there's great, they have great ideas and you know, on how to go about things, and that is the role we will be playing from now on.

So we're not there to take notes.

Like you didn't go to school for however many years to take notes.

So no disrespect to whatever was happening before.

But um, so I'm really hopeful though that I do think there's other parts of um the system in the city that has compounded that city planning has not been, you know, I don't know what the word is respected, appreciated, whatever, like taken into account, you know, and to your point like if you have two to three staff, you don't have the bandwidth to be developing policy around X, Y, and Z.

Like, that's why we're here for you.

You tell us what the problem is, we can help you flag some potential solutions, or if you have solutions, we can work on it together.

Like I'm hopeful to be in a more collaborative working relationship, but that is gonna take all of you know the departments and so forth agreeing to work in a different way together.

Um yeah, thank well that that that's very good to hear.

That's very good to hear.

I mean, even just you know, just yesterday, somebody called me who's active, you know, in the Hazelwood community, and uh was like, oh, what can we do to sort of inform our immigrant folks about you know what I mean, about what's going on with that and and resources and whatever, and of course it's like, yeah, that's a great idea, but I you know, like where to begin.

I mean, I have someone in my office I can task with that, but it would be very helpful to have somebody in planning who's also able to be like, all right, what are the resources?

How do we like get that information out?

How do we get the know your rights stuff out to our immigrant communities in different languages?

I mean, things that I don't even it would just take an enormous lift for me to even begin, right?

So ideally you would call us and tell us that you got this request.

Yeah.

And we might be helpful or we might be able to point you to another resource if we don't know, you know, but at least we can be one of your first phone calls.

Great.

And um that also, so that that sort of shifts me toward my next question, which is um, well, at least since I've been on council, things that go through the planning team seem often to sort of take a lot, like it's like, okay, this is gonna take a long time, right?

Like this is gonna be a long process.

So how can we um make the department more agile to address because you know, you're you're gonna have request, you know, Councilman Charlotte has a bill about housing.

Like we just have, you know, my office just has one about you know, accessibility, councilman, you know, sending these requests that are coming over from council members because of something we've obviously been hearing a lot about.

How do you um how do you maintain the agility to kind of jump on things that we throw over the fence?

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

So there is a big project management component here that I think I also bring to the table because I've managed large teams of like that are multidisciplinary, all each doing their own thing, and I've had to prioritize them.

Um and I run my own business managing eight to ten jobs at a time.

And um there it is and Andrew has been great on this.

Like we've we recognize that there's a need to um what's the word?

Formalize procedures and set priorities and then tell people about them, you know, so that if five of you bring us something urgent that we're communicating, like, okay, look, I know yours is urgent, but councilman Mosley's thing like come in right before you, whatever.

Like, I think as long as there needs to be structure and there needs to be communication.

Um, because I actually I find that the staff is very capable and wants to do good work, and so I think it's partially in the communication that things are getting lost, or if you need I I also believe in setting clear timelines.

Like if you don't give me a date, it is very hard to stay on track, and so I'm hopeful in these conversations to say, okay, this we're gonna do this over an eight-week time frame.

We need X, Y, and Z.

There are clear out I don't meet just to meet, and I want there to be clear action items coming out of meetings with dates and people.

Like we can't just assign people to things.

There needs to be dates because it helps all of us.

It helps me to stay on track and everybody who's working on it and it sets and and that's the only way you can have accountability, right?

Because otherwise it can be like a task that goes on for however long, you know.

And there are some, I think like private sector things that are it's different in city government that I'm learning, but some of those practices um have to be more structured.

There's just no way to serve nine of you and run the projects we're running and 56 people in the mix.

You have to have these struct management structures in place.

So we're uh on a good path to put those all in.

Great.

And um, so my last question is, and I'll leave the comp plan to another member.

I'm sure she was gonna ask about that.

Um but um is around you know, the affordable housing question, because obviously we are very divided as a city, um, I think maybe as a council to um about how we keep Pittsburgh affordable for people who are living here so that as you said, so that they're whether you know, you know, working class people, whether it's seniors or their or their kids, so that they can stay in the neighborhoods that they've been in for generations.

How do we preserve that?

Um, and then also how do we ensure that Pittsburgh is affordable for all these recent all these you know, college grads that are here and they're graduating college and they don't make a lot of money.

And you know, right now uh I think the average for a one bedroom is like twelve hundred dollars a month, which is just uh I mean mind boggling.

Um and and even that has gone like rents have gone down about five percent recently, which you know, to think that that's that that's where we're at as you know, yet our rents have gone down.

Um so just in in city planning, yeah.

You know, I know we have a new zoning administrator.

Yes.

Um and I am all for this idea of like fixing the zone.

I mean, the zoning.

You're gonna update the zoning code.

Update the zoning code to make it sort of more, but but also in this divide, there is this, you know, the the term Yimbi, like I just I cannot stand this term, right?

It is so insulting.

It is so insulting to community members, to people who you know who care so deeply about their neighborhoods, yeah, who have you know put their their lives into their communities and to kind of brush them off, like well, you you know, you're just you know we're smarter than you are, you know, trickle down, whatever.

It it it really isn't working.

And um, so I I'm curious about how you hope to address that in um you know, as you come into these community conversations around development and whatnot.

Yeah, I think one thing is I want to start getting away from like what's the word adding feel to like divisive narrative that is not helping any of us, and I think those of us in leadership have a role to stop using certain terms, you know.

I think like we and I've actually started, I was talking to staff about a you know, certain particular terms yesterday is that we have a role in not um enhancing that divide and putting energy towards it, number one, and number two, I think like using more city planning like owning the role of like sharing data and facts about where things stand and then um figuring out how to fix it.

And number two, I think like using more city planning, like owning their role of like sharing data and facts about where things stand, and then figuring out how to fix it.

So I think you know, being able to navigate the conversations with like these are the facts of each situation and understanding that there are difficult things happening on both sides.

I think sometimes it's hard for like presenting the economics of the situation and why a certain thing can't happen.

You know, I think we need to like city planning needs to be more um be providing more of that uh foundational like facts of the situation so that we're understanding the decisions about it's not about like X person doesn't want to provide affordable housing or you know is a terrible person, like they're not terrible human beings.

Like I think we need to get away from that emotionality of the situation and get to like these are the you know, this is the specific problem in that project or situation, and maybe there are these other alternate alternatives, you know, like get creative about that is and for example, like I had suggested to Councilman Mosley, like you know, about the ADUs way back when like we need to make incremental progress and get some goods, like we're gonna need to build more, and we need to build more of a variety of types of units, like you were saying, like the students who are having their first unit, you know, all that.

Um so I think like it's a mix of trying to bring us together towards shared goals instead of continuing to propagate like that divide, unfortunately, and you know, sharing, okay, maybe there are these other tools that we haven't explored.

You know, what do people think about these?

And so, but they're very like you're saying, they're hard conversations, and those of us who got into planning apparently have a glutton for punishment about those conversations.

So we chose to navigate these issues.

And like all these people, you know, in house, like they chose this profession to exactly to do this hard work.

And we're just gonna have to start doing it and making incremental progress.

Okay, great.

Well, I don't think I have any more questions, so thank you.

I appreciate it.

I'm glad to have you with us.

Yeah.

Thank you, Councilwoman Strasberger.

Thank you.

Well, thank you for your willingness to serve in this um admittedly challenging role.

Yeah.

Now and really any time in Pittsburgh's history, um, it's it's it's gonna be a challenging position to be in because of so many decisions that need to be made, important decisions, and they um particularly now, as you intimated, the the um kind of natural um uh I don't know, emotions that come along with land use planning, right?

It's just it's it it that and you know parking kind of kind of uh uh allows for that to rise up in individual people and and members of our communities.

So I I will ask about the comp plan and your I guess less about like the nitty-gritty of how we move forward and what we do, and you know, but like where you think there is an opportunity if you'd like to speak about any kind of more specifics about where we go in the next few you know months, great, but I'm more interested in what that then, like once it's done, what that allows us to do and what we can if if that in your mind is in setting the stage for tackling zoning and tackling so many of these other um these other um necessities that would underpin decisions and provide us with data and you know, this and that.

I also as part of that would like to see understand, yeah, how you how you see that fitting in with other plans from other levels of government, yeah, particularly since the county is undergoing one.

Yeah, yeah, and the um prospect of a climate action plan 3.0.

Yes.

So however you'd like to address that really big question.

Okay.

Um I feel like I had a good conversation with Councilman Coghill yesterday about this.

And this is the simplest way that I can describe um the value of the comp plan, okay, is that the comp plan in theory, if it represents the interests of the broadest constituency across the city and recognizes recognizes all those different issues at play, that the comp plan represents what we expect the city to look like in 25 years.

If all of us did an awesome job and you know um reflect like got what we want in the name, like it is a picture of that, right?

So in your district, it's like this is where residential goes, this is where we want commercial activity, these are the green ways we want to be connected.

So it sets an expectation that makes it easier for development to be you know um weighed in that context, in theory, if it's alignment with the plan, it should expedite some of that investment and growth, right?

And if it doesn't, there's a clear reason why, you know, so that if somebody's proposing something way different, it at least sets the conditions of like this is what we expect in our neighborhood.

If you want something else, you need to explain why, right?

So it should expedite the kind of um investment that we need in, especially in you know, some of our neighborhoods.

Um it also shows a united front again.

Supposing that government, you know, city government, the various authorities, everybody is contributing to the plan together.

It represents a unified vision just to allow things to happen more smoothly, policy-wise, development-wise, everything.

Like it should help all of us.

So, in order to get there, my understanding of where we are, there's been a lot of good work on the analysis front.

And I know some of you may or may not be as familiar with it, have you know, happy to share, but there's been a lot of good analysis, there's been some exploration of you know, different ways to go about growth in the future.

But really, where we are now is it's clear that there's been some missing constituencies represented input to the analysis phase or to where they were because I also want to clarify that there were no recommendations to date, and we were about to enter the recommendation phase.

So our proposal, and I've spent the last four weeks figuring out how to have a clear um pathway to completing a plan because I do think it's valuable and will help our city and can be done in the next seven, eight months, like you know, um, is to identify clearly who was missed or what constituencies were not at the table, engage them in a very specific way about you know where we are in the plan, and then um particularly you know, some of the committees that will be looking in more detail um and now head towards like a preferred plan.

And this is not this is the other thing about planning.

I don't believe in planning that can't get built.

Like these are not, you know, this is not some like abstract plan that makes some good ideas.

If you can't, if you can't build it or actually accomplish that, don't put it in the plan.

It's not that hard.

So it needs to be like economically feasible, it needs to align with the goals of you know, council, the mayor's office, everybody, like people need to be bought in, because otherwise it's a waste of time.

So I'm hoping, you know, I've proposed monthly meetings with council to all work together, make sure it reflects your districts, you know, coordinate, like you were asking about PRT and those plans, blah blah blah.

Like SPCA, like all of that, they should be ideally integrated in some way, like in the mobility vision, it should be integrated.

So the idea is to get the missing engagement, head towards a draft plan, the you know, then engage with all the interests around a draft plan, and then finish it.

It's and you know, have a very clear.

I've as we were talking about management, like clear list of timeline deliverables, you should be able to check off that those things were done.

And um, but again, like that presupposes that people are willing to engage in the plan, you know, that council, everybody else who may or may not have been are willing to engage in it representing what you want to happen.

Um, because that is our end goal that has always been planning's end goal, maybe got lost in the mix somehow, but I see it as a picture of like what you want your district to look like 20, 25 years from now, period.

And then so we have a land use plan, and then you develop the policies to make that plan possible, which will include zoning recommendations, and those will be considered when we hopefully someday rewrite the zoning code.

And so when we rewrite the zoning code, that would come that would sort of be a natural outflow of the plan.

Yeah.

Would that address the fact that we have like half and half, like half the cities, but like Euclidean and half is like form-based, and it's just they it's different master plans in different neighborhoods.

Like is that the would that be the goal?

And is that something that we also can accomplish as an as a project after the I think the goal would be that in the comp plan the policy recommendations would say that, like, you know, read about, you know, like revise the consistent zoning code about X wines.

Like it would identify the things to do in the next step of revising the zoning code.

You know, so that we're this is like uh what you'll call it, a uh like a logical next step is actually making it law.

And Carolyn is super excited to do that, and I'm sure she has brilliant ways to do that that I don't, but um that is our game plan.

Okay.

And same thing on the affordable housing front, that it is making recommendations about which policies to explore in the near future, and they're not just pie in the sky, things that have worked all over the place.

They are like the things that should be appropriate to Pittsburgh, and we should um advance into formal policy.

So that's part of why we're hoping the comp plan can serve as like the receptacle of all good things we need to change about land use, and then it can make it law.

And um do you think there's room in the comp plan or separately for an update to our climate action plan?

I'm sorry.

No, that's okay.

It was a big question.

Um I believe so Floor's team is the team in DCP that has been working on that, and I know they've met with you and were excited to do a post agenda on like the update on their work.

And my understanding is that yeah, like we have um, you know, there's sort of like topical experts in DCP, like the climate people and the Greenway person and the housing person that those people will be um working closely with the consultant to make necessary recommendations about that piece of it in the comp plan.

So, or at least like next steps of like what's needs to happen.

Great.

Um, I was really glad for the conversation around neighborhood planners um because that was one of the questions I had.

And I guess related to that, um we um we have this interesting dynamic where I think what I saw most recently was our engagement specialists who were not necessarily in city planning doing I thought like a really amazing job at engaging the public and trying out this new structure where there was the engagement and kind of um uh outreach team um, you know, um it changes names every administration, but essentially, you know, like being embedded in or being represent responsible for say, you know, public works and dome or you know, and then planning kind of had its own thing.

Um and I guess I see opportunities for there to be an even more less siloed and more um uh comprehensive and set way of engaging, whether it's planning or whether it's DOME, whether it's like a like or whether it's a you know, a sort of something that comes at us and we're on defense, we're like responding to something, or it's a set plan, right?

Um and there are different approaches with different teams where you know one team might want to, I know Domi really prefers to have like something to show the public before they take it public.

Okay.

Whereas like there could be so as to not waste an engineer's time, right?

And to not like, but but on the other hand, um there could I just envision this other opportunity where we're engaging the public and envisioning and co-creating before the engineers get involved, and then the engineer and the engineers and planners sort of being responsive to that and saying, we heard you, we are receptive to that, and you know, I'm gonna address every single point that you recommended.

Here's why we can or cannot do that, or how's here here's how we integrated it into the plan.

Like I would love to see that to accomplish two goals.

One to use this sheer expertise that our planners have, like that is their background, and um two to have just a set way that we work with the public, and three to build trust with the public so that they are like they might have pie in the sky ideas and have to be told, sorry, that's not feasible, but at least they were able to be there in the front end.

Yeah.

And that rubs up against the fact that we don't have unlimited time and resources.

So I don't know.

I guess my question is do you think there's an opportunity to use the expertise of planners to help to work cross departmentally to establish and with our engagement team to help um establish these set sort of norms for community engagement?

Yeah, I think there's all kinds of opportunities.

Are you talking specific the engagement people in our office or in other offices?

I I mean everyone who has planning background, right?

Like so they're engagement people, I guess, in your office, but they're also sitting they're also neighborhood planners.

Right.

Who ostensibly have that background too.

So what whoever it is helping to devise what this standard looks like.

So and I think you know, I mean, like my practice was like a third of my work was designing public engagement processes, and I'm in the camp of like engage early and often, because it's just gonna make you spend money later, like is the reality.

And I know that sometimes like engineers and others come from a different place, but so I think I'm bringing the ethic of like um one, you gotta be intentional about how you're gonna engage and about what, right?

Like I am very big on respecting people's times.

Like, usually we're the only ones paid to be in these conversations, right?

So we should really be more careful about residents' time in these places.

And um, so I think we have to have an intentional game plan, and we're just beginning to understand how to work like our people with the mayor's office people, and um I'm glad to hear about like Domi sounds like a conversation to have, and like your staff, I'm not sure you know how they um engage.

And so my hope is we're getting to a place where yeah, we can have a more intentional approach because our two engagement specialists are like um constantly learning and training in the best ways to you know navigate these issues.

So they've been wanting to train other, like they're there to train the rest of our staff, and I wonder if we can just do it with other departments too, like you know, um uh like unintentional bias and like things like you know, so I think they would love that, and um just accepting in-house that like it's better to communicate with people and tell them you don't know or you don't have the answer yet, or you're looking into it, than to say nothing because when departments and projects go quiet, people make up their own assumptions, and it doesn't help anybody in the end.

So I communication is a big endeavor of mine and think dad, we have now a comms person in house like DCP again.

So we've been working um closely to figure out how to communicate more consistently and like you know, people know who to call and so forth and so on.

So I think I'd love to be able to see um to work with other departments to figure out how to do things more consistently.

So we can take that back.

That's that's fabulous.

I appreciate that.

And I do agree that like even peer-to-peer training would be valuable.

We in our office, you know, um, what we have been able to glean from um from some of what DCP has put together is just even like the norms and expectations of a community meeting because it's in the slide deck, like it's such a small thing, but we include that now in every proactive community meeting that we do because we've learned that from a DCP.

So I do I do think there are more opportunities like that where you know, to the extent that council offices or other departments want to learn from that, that'd be an opportunity.

That's great.

And can I actually sorry, just add one more thing that occurred to me.

I think one of the challenges in engagement is that.

Yeah, sometimes I wish there was another word for it, but is that people are like, we want to engage, like what tools should we use?

Planning, and I'm like, I don't know.

It depends.

Like, are you going there to share information?

Are you actually asking them their opinion?

Like, are you whatever?

You know, like decide what you're engaging about, and then we can help you identify the tools.

And I mean, I used to do this with clients, and I think that's what we should all collectively be asking ourselves before you even worry about how many meetings or what tool or if there's a survey.

What are you asking of people?

And not jump the gun to like scheduling meetings and doing things until you're like crystal clear.

You open that meeting with like, we want to get your input on X, or we want to share X thing, like that's what really I think the general public gets annoyed and things go south is just like a lack of clarity, a lack of where did the information go at the end of the meeting, close it properly.

meetings or what tool or if there's a survey what are you asking of people and not jump the gun to like scheduling meetings and doing things until you're like crystal clear you open that meeting with like we want to get your input on X or we want to share X thing like that's what really I think the general public gets annoyed and things go south is just like a lack of clarity a lack of where did the information go at the end of the meeting close it properly this is what you can expect to happen at X time not at some unknown future you know so I think we need to hold each other like to that standard to be more clear with participants in the process you know well my only ask is that you continue to remind I guess all of us and I want to speak on everyone's behalf like of your um expertise and abilities like collectively the yeah down you know to all the way to you know everyone in your department because I think it's going to take a little bit of um of of a reminder as to what yeah everyone is I feel like we need to like send you a menu of services.

Yes would not oppose that.

Yeah to remind us of of how we all can work you know in an integrative way.

And yeah and I just ask that you you know especially for council that you just give us a call give us a heads up you know like um we're we all want to work together better you know so give us the chance to do that you know so much thanks Council President Thank you uh councilman Sharlin thank you uh and I will not be too long because I we talked a lot in my uh pre-interview here um I I really wanted to start with kind of asking the question you've now been in the department about a month yeah there's just week five week five okay I just started week five uh and I'm just curious like so far in your experience what what do you think is going well what what are what have you been pleasantly surprised by in the department of my god everybody is amazing they're brilliant they're kind they're passionate about the work they have great ideas that have not necessarily made it to the public eye so it is a very solid team of people that want to do good work and um my yeah my deputy andrew dash has been amazing in getting me up to speed and working together and so I feel like we have a really complimentary skill set so I feel like everything in house is good.

Good.

Well that uh I like that answer.

So one of the things that uh the planning department did in previous iterations um and has updated uh that I think we have really poured over was the housing needs assessment.

Um I you know as far as the reports that planning puts out some mean a lot to some people um the housing needs assessment I think is one that uh that a lot of us have really poured over um and you might have different interpretations of s of some of the the things that are in there but ultimately um has guided a lot of the work that we've done um and I believe at this point it it was updated in 2022.

It's almost time.

I'm curious yeah I was curious if you had plans to to look at an update on that again.

Yes.

I just talked to Andrew Dash about that yesterday he has always had like yeah he was he told me it was time to update it.

I don't have the exact time we can get that for you so yes it was time for an update and then I also didn't realize that the hope is that over the I don't know if it's in this update or over the coming updates that eventually it's something that DCP can do in-house.

So the goal is to have DCP updating it continuously to like be current.

So I thought that was cool.

Yeah.

Yeah that's that's great to hear.

You know again I I think depending on kind of your interest area there are a lot of other reports and plans that planning puts out but I think the housing assessment was and it is something that like it gets older faster.

I get that so like I feel like it is one of the ones that there has to be a game plan for how quickly you update you know how often you update it.

So great.

With that um uh in talking about that around housing um I know I talked to you um about legislation that I've introduced here about uh a housing yes uh completion dashboard yes um and wanted to you know I I I talked to you about that I held it specifically so that it would you would have time to process that and uh be prepared to to move on it um and I just wanted to to find out have you looked into that further and have you um it comes up I believe next week for us okay so uh if there are things that you would like to amend amendment in it okay um we need to talk about that sooner rather than later I I do intend to pass this and you know I think it's something that council as a whole we're we're all supportive of having the best data we can we can disagree about the policies afterwards but let's get numbers in front of us.

Okay.

So if there are things that you would like to amend amendment in it okay um we need to talk about that sooner rather than later I I do intend to pass this and you know I think it's something that council as a whole we're we're all supportive of having the best data we can we can disagree about the policies afterwards but let's get numbers in front of us.

Yeah.

So here's the little bit that I have dug deeper into and I had a good um I have two like more housing deep dives yesterday with our housing planner and Andrew.

And one is that you need data to be able to like count change in something.

So I a hundred percent agree of how we get to like a consistent dashboard that tracks the number of units built and so forth and is accurate so that again getting away from like rumors narrative like we're gonna use data right to if I can jump in on that to the point the you know the real estate community keeps track of how many units come open they sometimes blur municipal lines and but I heard a number from you know from what they believe we built last year which is wildly different than the numbers that I think a lot of us have been talking about by like scales of magnitude.

And and again like we need someone that there is a number this is a thing we can count.

Yeah there's and there are universities that can provide all kinds of resources to count them.

So like we need to use like the map data expert people to solve this problem.

And so all that to say is that yeah we'll look closer if we have any recommendations but um we have to find a way that we can get this data set and be updating it regularly and not be fighting about numbers.

So yeah what you know what doesn't get measured doesn't get changed.

So and like you want to you want a 10% change on like 10% of what like I don't you know like I need numbers so yeah uh good well that come again comes up next Wednesday so I will look at that closely tomorrow.

Okay.

Uh we purposely left it pretty open-ended for you if they're like we're not telling you how to count it but we're telling that it is you it is your department's job to to count that.

So and then more my understanding though is that there is like proposed collaboration with like IMP and like as long as DCP is connected to it like right and tracking like it there may be better people to make the dashboard than our people but I agree that like we need to be on top of it and super like managing it.

Yeah.

Yeah yeah I think I I don't think like the uh dashboard creating capabilities I'm sure you probably have people um it probably is not as difficult as I think it is to create some like that I think they've done someone at INP can probably figure that out better than than anyone else can so I wanted to follow that the the last question I really had for you um I heard you mention kind of a variety of different constituencies um within the city that you're you know you're concerned about um people that live here high income people people that are low income the one constituency that I never hear talked about are future Pittsburghers.

Oh yeah and I I want to bring that to the forefront that like we talk we talk a lot about the people that live here currently but what are we planning to do with the the future of Pittsburgh as we want to grow our population as we we want to see Pittsburgh in the future I think that there's often this idea that like when you bought your home in your neighborhood your neighborhood was perfect and everything that happened after that is terrible and if you can just get back to when it was when you bought your home at this point then things would be great.

But we've seen certain neighborhoods you know expand because of um because of people's interest in them we've seen certain neighborhoods uh you know definitely you have less population because people are moving out uh maybe because of their priced out maybe also because they're just really tired of living next to an abandoned house so I I want to kind of ask the question you know how are you keeping in mind a population that we literally cannot poll because we don't know who they are um the the future Pittsburghers.

Yeah I should have like mentioned them out of the gate because I mean I think if DCP of all of us do our job right we're gonna be the kind of city where people want to live.

I mean, that is partially why I took this job.

Like I want to make the like places to move, like I was talking about Chattanooga, you know, like we want to be the city that if people are given a choice, you know, or have an option, they are choosing to live in Pittsburgh because of quality of life, the quality of the neighborhoods, like the quality of the amenities, you know, opportunity, all those things.

Like I guess I didn't say it, but sort of like assume like the way we're addressing future Pittsburghers is by making Pittsburgh an awesome place that people want to live in.

Like that's why the university kids are gonna stay here and get married here or not and grow their families, whatever.

Like I wanna be like top five places to live, it's Pittsburgh, you know, like we have amazing things.

Like, I mean, Gerard and I came here from Maryland, which we consider home, but we stayed because the kind of life our kids have in the community.

And honestly, while the two of us didn't have the same level of professional opportunity as like we would have in DC Metro, the quality of life here was awesome.

So if we can make both of those things happen, like, you know, Pittsburgh has amazing physical assets.

We should not be wanting for people to move here.

And they shouldn't be moving here just for some random job, right?

So hopefully you're gonna make your neighborhoods amazing places to live.

Yeah, I I mean I think that's that that's really what I want to see out of the Department of City Planning is like, you know, um one of our colleagues uh in her stamp speech would would always say, I'm uh I'm a Pittsburger by choice, not by birth.

Yeah.

And I I think of that as a you know compelling argument that we want to make we want to make everybody make that choice.

Yeah.

Uh to be Pittsburghers of the future, and and my hope is that Department of City Planning is is building towards that.

So you know how people are retiring to Lancaster for some reason.

I mean it's cute and all, but I'm just like maybe people will retire to Pittsburgh, you know, because it's walkable, there's institutions, there's museums, there's stuff to do, there's the rivers, like how do we become that city and like you know, what's missing.

So great.

Well, thank you very much.

Um uh I was really excited to see your name pop up as uh uh nomination here, and I'm really excited to to be able to work with you and in your department.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilman Councilwoman Gross.

Thank you, appreciate it.

Well, I did step out of chambers there, so I missed the last part of the conversation, but I've been um taking notes on the other questions.

I suspect that um this question hasn't been asked even when I was out of the room, but it's on my mind, and we um, as you probably know, have a gender equity commission at the city.

And we've had conversations over the years about uh basically you know, gender in city planning.

Uh-huh.

And it's really not something that um we have yet incorporated, although we've kind of done a much better job at doing things like looking at the city's organizational chart, looking for gender equity.

We've looked at things like uh we pushed our like outreach workers for gang violence intervention to make sure they were not ignoring girls and you know, they have mentors, which is great now, and um found that it was a really really productive, they found really productive engagement.

Similarly, there's like a an entire branch of kind of like women in um uh urban sociology or you know, in like geology, even like right feminist geology and things like that.

And then there are some countries that are really looking at um how our urban spaces neglect gender differences.

You know, are are the trails too dark?

Yeah, are the parks only have recreational activities for boys and men?

Yeah, right.

And so I'm wondering kind of like is that a skill set that you have in the department now as a member of the gender equity commission?

You know, we brought this up, I think when we first passed the legislation, which is nearly 10 years ago now.

Okay.

And but it really hasn't been something that the commission has tackled as an issue.

Um so we're talking again planning, yeah.

Um for in parks in public spaces, rights of way.

Um spaces for girls specifically.

Yeah.

Um thoughts, yeah.

I have lots of thoughts.

Um luckily I'm a girl mom.

So yeah, here we go.

Yeah, I have two teenage girls, and yeah, I'm in that camp of like you don't walk home alone.

Like, I don't care if you're in Shady Side or some other place, like just don't do it.

You know what I mean?

Like, and unfortunately that you have to think that way.

You know, we were just talking about Ubers and like it might be different for there's like the kid Uber thing for people who have boys versus girls in a kid Uber, right?

Like there's just different considerations that we can pretend aren't there, but they are.

So um there's a couple pieces.

I'm very big on engaging and educating youth also in the planning profession.

Like, I mean, we have a ton of women in the department, so I'm curious to see this hadn't been mentioned to me, but I'm excited to like hear from the women in the department how those recommendations have been considered or not or whatever, right?

So we've had discussions of things like you know, there is a difference in by gender in our households that are don't have cars.

Yeah.

Right.

And so we know from the when a girls um femisphere work, which is again 10 years old, that our needier households are female headed households with children in the home, right, by and large.

There was a time when the majority of those households were seniors.

Um, but I believe that we have a different distribution now, and our needest households are our moms and kids.

And those tend to, again, need to access things by transit or by foot.

Right.

And so journey to school, journey to groceries, food.

You know, we've it's been probably almost 10 years since we did the healthy food priority access areas, which are sometimes called food desserts, but we're calling them something slightly different.

We're calling something else.

But that data needs to be revisited, but it also I think would benefit from a gendered analysis.

Yes.

And we don't necessarily always do that.

Yeah, no, so we can definitely um bring that uh to the attention of the department.

There's actually a committee that I'm probably gonna say it wrong, but um there's a team in-house that is working on um all equity issues.

It's like a yeah, a team that is actually led by Jasmine.

I don't know if you know her, but I will ask them about their work in this particular sphere.

Um I think even for me, I mean, this is a male profession, and I have grown up in it, I have lived it.

I you know I was the first woman to have a baby and navigate all of that and continue working in a national firm when nobody had done it, and so I have a soft spot for this.

And as I I would welcome an analysis by planning of where we have changing stations at our facilities.

I'm not even sure we have them.

Yeah, let alone like you know, we've we've talked about before about location areas, but um to have um changing areas.

I mean, I'm not even sure how our public restrooms are doing.

I have no idea.

Yeah, I mean, yeah.

I did lots of things, thankfully, with the support of a really good husband to navigate traveling a lot with a baby and a toddler.

And now that I actually had the first woman come up to me who's pregnant in my department, like this is my chance to set the conditions for women to stay in the profession, which we know they're falling out of.

And so I think what can we do to keep professionals in this field, and then second that consideration of when we're planning spaces and places that we're thinking about lighting, amenities, all that stuff.

I mean, I also have two we're a big soccer sporty family, and they are not necessarily your typical girls, but they do sometimes want different things than boys, and they don't want to just hang out at the mall.

Like that can't be the default activity that nobody wants to drive to.

So, like, what are the things in the city that we're providing for girls and opportunities?

So I really want to find out too like bring your kids, especially girls to work days and like how we can get them interested.

And um, I think we have a majority of city council members who have school age children.

Yeah.

Which is probably I don't know if that's ever happened before.

Um, but it is this situation now, I think.

So um we have, you know, I think an awareness, and we certainly hear from our constituents.

I represent a district with that had far fewer school-aged children in it 10 years ago than it does now, right?

And so there's been a turnover from kind of like a street of like old house, older households to streets of like new families.

And I think we should be planning around the needs for kids and families and kids at various ages, right?

So planning for little kids, but planning for those big kids too.

Yeah.

Um, and where their needs are on the streets, but that we could do a better job of planning by not just age, but also gender.

No, and I was the person, honestly, that somebody told me early in my profession.

Well, yeah, you can live in the city now, it's all like we were in Shady Side, it's great.

But when you have a baby, you're gonna move out to the burbs, right?

And I was like, no.

Um I didn't know that was a thing, but okay, you know, and we chose to stay in a city neighborhood, and that's ridiculous.

Like, if you want to live in Lawrenceville and have three kids, that's your call, like make it work.

So we we have lots of needs.

So that kind of brings me to another question, which is that our planning department doesn't or does it, right?

Like plan our parks.

Like we had our own planners and parks, yeah, right?

And landscape architects and parks.

Um and then we had like Domi kind of planning streets as well.

And so, you know, how do these things fit together, let alone the fact that like we actually have no jurisdiction over where schools are or not, uh, where the what the heck the water system does or does not, uh, what the heck a transit system does or does not.

And so how do you plan?

Well, one is that my understanding is that planning does plan parks, and then they work together with the parks department to implement them.

So one, I mean, this is kind of my bigger picture thing of like how somehow okay, I came here 25 years ago.

Somehow pre-25 years ago, uh some forces that be started putting planning functions all over the place.

Right.

And I am on a mission to bring them back.

Like we are city planning.

We serve and plant uh all of the land, right?

All of the neighborhoods, like whether we're working with parks or dome or whatever, like the core um planning design functions policy should ideally be housed in planning, and so I'm hoping like I mean I've had lots of conversations with our fellow leadership in these other departments, and I think we can get there, but we're a little bit re-engineering how the department has been working.

And you know, the neighborhoods are re-engineering themselves very often, right?

So they they may sometimes it's slow changes, but sometimes it's quick changes, it's rapid changes, and so you know, my some reason this is on my mind.

I think because some places we have conflicts now, and we have some pretty tiny parks.

And so there's a conflicts by the park users, let's put it.

We're been hearing some public comment lately of conflicts between different users of parks.

Yes.

And um, you know, it's okay, especially because I I my district has like 14 small parks, which is a lot.

Um, you know, lots of lots of people who don't even have backyards, so there's lots of little parks, which is great.

We're like we're glad to have them.

But you know, maybe all of the the consensus for the communities around one of the small parks was like, you know, they wanted, you know, they didn't need playground equipment, but they had a tennis court.

Well now they don't want the you know, now no one plays tennis in the neighborhood anymore, but they want a basketball court because there's teenagers or they want a community garden or they want a playground structure because suddenly there's lots of toddlers.

Um and so these things change, and it's okay for us to make those changes, but it does take planning.

Yes, and it takes to do having those conversations and being honest about the fact that nobody's playing tennis, and it's okay.

Like you just, you know, need to outfit the parks with what fits the population, and I think obviously the profession and like materials are getting to the point where like there's more flexibility in like things you put in parks so that they can also change over time, so it's not so set in stone, you know.

Uh another thing I know that we've touched a little bit today on the like um climate action plan and um there's also a zero waste plan, and then I know that we've been working with planning on both issues around greenways and community gardens.

Councilman Conkl and I work have worked now especially for five years on um what we now call city farms in the parks and rec department, which is um planning and supporting more community gardening, not just city-run gardening, but also kind of community-run gardening on public property.

Um and so do you have any initial kind of experience in those kinds of outdoor spaces?

Yes.

Great.

Um so in Baltimore, I was working in the Cherry Hill neighborhood a couple years ago as part of a choice neighborhood program.

And a lot of times, I mean, these can be pathways to like better food access, right?

Like that we're thinking of them as like how can we get people closer to real food without like I know everybody wants a grocery store, but we know the economics of how many rooftops you need and like the economics to make that work.

And so in the meantime, there are scalable models of um you know, community gardens growing your own food.

There's like kind of it's a different version of a co-op, but like there are different smaller um models to um grow and sell food.

Sometimes like they're a combined thing.

So I think we need to be looking at some of those models closer and not just fixate on the grocery store because we may need to, you know, do these like scalable in-between things until a grocery store can come.

And I think getting connected to the land and food again, we know is also um huge for just like uh general like mental health, well-being, all that good stuff.

It can teach kids to eat better down the road if you get them planting food sooner.

So there's so many good benefits, you know.

And there's so many vacant lots to do it on in theory.

Exactly.

So we have a lot of enthusiasm around the city farms program.

Okay.

Um so we're like proactively supporting community gardens instead of less letting them buy or you know, survive on their own, which we were before.

Um so as I think we have a better model, a better kind of operation side to supporting gardens.

I think it's important to see how they fit together, both in terms of um availability to the public, but also city services, right?

So where are wood chips produced and stored?

God knows.

So like when it gets to be growing season, especially, we have a non-stop request for wood chips, right?

But it's not necessarily like I they're all kind of coming from forestry, which is over in my district in park.

So those kinds of things are a bit on the operation side, and I do have a meeting with uh chief operating officers in a little bit.

Okay.

Um so I'll bring up that same topic.

But I think we have the opportunity, um, and again, especially as some of our neighborhoods are changing, repopulating, whether, you know, did it used to be people living for a long time, or um people, you know, changing their life stage, so they're more active in the moral side than looking for your you know engagement with kids and those kinds of things.

We're finding a lot of support for um both investments in our greenways and also investments in our green other kinds of green spaces.

So it's you know, parks don't just have to be baseball fields.

Yeah.

Well, we love our baseball teams and our baseball fields, and God knows we're still working on improvements for those, we don't need to stop there.

Yeah.

And I think that's what was interesting to me.

Like, I'm sorry to bring Chat and Ugh up again.

But in wandering through their parks, is that there's all kinds of stuff going on.

There was like, you know, intentional things going on, there's like informal play spaces, there's just like mounds and hills for kids to roll down.

We love that.

And so I think you know, because to your point about designing for um girls, there's also like there is like designing for specific groups of people, whether it be like ethnicity, race, so forth and so on, and like there is like a sense of who's welcome and who's not welcome in the park.

And um some people may not be as attuned to it, but others are, and so are we intentionally designing the parks for everybody in the neighborhood.

So that is something that I'm consciously.

Yeah, happy to talk more about that as well.

And if um, like I said, if there is a kind of committee in planning, I don't think we have talked to them about it.

I will look into the food, yeah.

I will look into the food and then the equity part as well.

Yeah, I can get you information on that.

So I appreciate it.

I think uh I'll let other council members take their turn to appreciate it.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Councilman Wilson.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

And uh it was great meeting the other day.

Yes, feels like a month ago.

It was a month ago, and I feel like I already feel bad for not getting back to you with those notes.

But you are my number one, and Kaghil might was my last one yesterday.

She told me she saved it.

Yes.

That's what they told us.

I don't want to put her on the spot.

Okay.

I'm assuming that was you, I guess.

Well, as I pour water into a cup, I wanted to say that you have the the right um the right ideal about uh you know water bottle.

That's one criteria to be working in uh city planning is to have a great water bottle.

Just to have, yeah, with good stickers.

It's just some jokes in the past that we've had in some meetings where Andrew has his I know he always carries.

Corey had his and it takes water to deal with this stuff, man.

Yeah.

PLI have they have good water bottles too.

Dave Green has a killer water bottle.

But anyway, um so good to have you here.

And uh I you know I've been listening and I appreciate all the all the questions because I don't have to ask those questions.

But I really just want to know coming from our meeting uh about a month ago, I wanted to talk about how you know my staff can um how and what they should expect in terms of working with city planners.

Yeah.

And I'm excited that you are our land use chair, right?

And so I I feel like being in continuous communication with your particular office is gonna be crucial to doing better work together.

Um so what Andrew and I are um have been talking about and hoping for is a monthly check-in with um with you and your staff together, but then also I'd like to establish a good relationship, like communication with your staff and appoint um the planner for your neighborhood, I guess, in our office, possibly on the comp plan.

Um maybe let me be more specific because I I appreciate where you're going with this, but let me try and uh narrow this.

So in terms of like all our offices, like what um like what issues do you think we should come to you with?

Like for instance, like we you know, I know to come to City Pl um you know, DPW with certain issues we can clearly visibly see what they're doing.

So, you know, on that note, like what do you think we should be routing towards?

Okay, let me see if I can narrow it easily.

Okay.

I'll give you an example.

So I don't mean to make this this isn't a trick question.

No, no.

So for instance, like we've been working with Domi on a parking strategy for Penn Avenue.

Okay.

And I don't think you're involved in those conversations.

Yeah, I would have to ask Andrew.

I don't know.

That feels like a thing we should be involved in.

Well, there is some history with this because we I worked with I worked with um uh with I should give you right title, um director dash previously on legislation to actually pull city planning out of a previous responsibility you had with the permitting process for parking.

So there was this role that was uniquely tied to city planning when we overhauled the um the permitting process years ago uh we took that out and then put it with Domingue because we thought there was but as these conversations continue in certain projects for Domi, it's like well now we're doing a whole parking study and it involves um you know the strip district in particular um you know how we you know what what is the future of parking for the strip district because we don't even know how to go about that just at a council level office.

So you know we were looking towards Domi, but as this conversation continues.

No, I think it's definitely a planning thing.

So like if you think about anything that's land use and you're trying to figure out where to put it, you should involve planning.

Like if you were trying to figure out like you were saying, this parking strategy collectively in a bigger place involve planning.

If it's like where to put residential, involve planning, like any physical land use thing related to where uses go or allowed, and then any building like I know you guys are working on the short-term rental issue, for example, like anything that's related to rules of how buildings sit on the land, I guess, would be another category of thing.

Um Yeah, because we I understand Domi, they're responsible for the right of way.

But there's a lot of people who use that right of way, and you know, yeah, and like Domingue can make it as residences and the strip district is unique.

I'm trying to think if there's other areas, but I I wouldn't be able to come up with it right now.

But you know, we went down the path of saying, okay, one way to get enforcement on these new loading zones.

Domi felt the strategy would be to you know have enforcement there.

And the only way to get enforcement is to have uh you know, meter parking all the way.

That was the idea that they came up with.

Well, you know, there's still older homes and townhomes, like not everything's apartments and condos on Penn Avenue.

Like there are still are you know, still looks similar to you know, if you're on further up if you're on Butler, like there's a few locations where you're like, oh, there's still you know, road homes here.

So you know, this could be a good opportunity to implement a uh implement a hybrid option, which is something we put into the legislation when we you know the theory.

When you took planning out or no, yeah, when well anyone could have done it, but we overhaul the permitting process.

So we left it in there where like you could explore, like we could explore um you know, hybrid options where you know that looks like, but I guess in this case, you know, could look something where residents could park in the paid parking area with their permit.

Yeah.

So I don't think that exists anywhere unless there's some special.

Not that I can think of, but that's just a small part of it, and it presents unique uh questions like you know, should like so then is everyone, everyone who's in apartments on Pen Avenue, are they gonna have the ability to get access to that or you know, a condo?

So anyway, yeah, and that's where I So there's a large conversation I would love to I I think we'd love to involve city planning to understand how but how do you see yourself in there?

You mentioned it mostly, and because anything involves land use, yeah.

And those kinds of things, like you know, we can work with like Domi can actually make the thing happen, but I think it's helpful if you have city planning involved in the strategy for how to fix the problem.

So like you're coming up with like where the parking should happen and the strategy of where it goes, and like I know that Domi's gonna enforce it and stuff, but planning can help you solve for the general strategy because maybe you know, there is something else that's been tried somewhere else that hasn't that Domi isn't bringing to the same.

And I mean I'm I'm guessing like there are planners that focus on these like transportation issues, you know.

Um so I would definitely involve planning anytime you're trying to like solve an issue like in a bigger area, you know.

I don't know how to think about um, yeah.

Well, you know, if you even look beyond just that part of Penn Avenue where we're trying to solve um, you know, there's I think I believe it was at zoning last week, the old woolly site where they're uh they're now parking illegally use of parking right now happening on the site and they're going for that to be like a temporary lot for at least five years.

And people were asking, like, if I'm supportive, and my general take on it is well, you have brickworks that is gonna break ground soon, which is right across from St.

St.

Law.

So you have this anyway, you have parking that currently exists where people are using sort of the business to see.

Oh, and it's gonna go away.

For the business, yeah, it's gonna go away.

And so, although we don't want you know, we want to limit the amount of um surface lots.

I guess you know, if they if they don't have the funding together, yeah, I guess that is a way to provide parking down there.

It would shift from brickworks to there.

Um, so I guess it is a short-term solution that it's good.

But that doesn't matter.

But just the overall thing is that we're gonna keep on when they when then when they build, we're gonna be in the same situation.

People are gonna wonder like, well, where do we where do we park?

Yeah.

You know, and I I realize that a lot of people, you know, Domi would, you know, there probably is a uh a large group of people that would say, hey, you need to figure out ways that other ways to get to the strip.

Well, you know, but then a lot of the strip owners would say there's a lot of people coming from the suburb suburbs, and they need to park.

It's not like a major transit system that would bring them in like other cities.

So anyway, this is a good conversation that um you know I like to have with you and just didn't know if you had any thoughts right now.

Yeah, and I mean that's where like you can use our team to like come up with a coordinated parking strategy for like that chunk of the strip, and we can map it for you and like legitimize why so that you know share the facts with you, and then you can decide like this is why we're doing the parking over here, and as things evolve, like you have something that you can also explain to residents more easily.

This is our approach.

It's not just like a free-for-all that we're opening up lots left and right.

So I'd like to get to a place where like planning is helping you figure that out, and we just do that as like a mini project and you know.

So uh just an open end question of their uh things within the next um any sort of projects or priorities that you're looking at in the next couple months that we would see.

From city planning side.

City planning, yeah.

Um we actually have a whole list in my office of like internal and external things, but um so the problem most of it might be a surprise, but then if there is um big things on our anything that you're seeing right now, you think, well, you know, I'll make it even more broad.

Anything you're seeing right now where you're like, you know, this is what I need to be successful in this role.

Um yeah, because like I said, everything in house is great, like we have the talent and the willingness to do good work.

I do need better communication across departments.

I need you know I guess more pro maybe more proactive communication, you know.

Um Andrew and I are formalizing like how we work on legislation with um you guys in the mayor's office, so like agreeing to keep each other on the loop, you know, and um so we're not you know, just hearing stuff out in the street or whatever, you know.

I think like more um proactive communication from the various departments, you know, because we can do our part, but there's only so much we can do.

And um and if you're not sure if it's something we can help you with, just ask and then we can be like, no, this is not our thing.

You should work with Domey, you know.

Um, but at least we're not just like shut out at the gate.

So give us that opportunity.

Um because there are a lot of like technical experts in house about different things and um they want to do the work.

So I think those are two big things.

Okay.

Uh in the past we've seen some city planners that community meetings just uh I want to say randomly because they were they were there to introduce themselves and then they did show up uh at the meetings a few times in my areas.

And I just didn't know would we expect to see that or oh so that's another good third thing is like let's get agreement on how our neighborhood planners are working with you guys and in the neighborhoods, like some of you have more um have better relationships with their neighborhood planners than other people.

So I'm trying to get like consistently so that generally you would know which kinds of meetings they're going to and why they're there and which kinds of meetings they're not at.

So I'm trying to update their um just roles and responsibilities.

So like if we can kind of like agree to that, and if you know you tell us like if there's something that's not clear, but so you have an expectation of how they're gonna work.

Well, yeah, that'd be great.

Yeah.

So I guess you know, so that's in progress, and uh something I hope to I think I've said to each of you is meeting one with um with us like over the coming month or so.

Like I know my assistants trying to get them all scheduled is like meeting one, we uh confirm the role of the planners.

We hear from you on your top issues, like I have a list from all my meetings, and but we confirm like what else planning should have their radar on, you know.

Okay.

All right.

Well any further questions, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman Cog.

Oh thank you, Mr.

President.

So thank you.

It's Evet.

Eva, I guess.

Okay, thank you, Yvette, and thank you for the conversation the other day.

It was um as I told you today, I didn't really need to come here and interview, but I did want to address a few things while we had some council members here, so I don't have to have independent conversations throughout the concerning the comp plan.

Yeah.

But before I get into that, I did want to piggyback on what Councilwoman Gross was talking about with our city farms project that we have been working on for for some time.

Um I'll admit I'm not a gardener.

I You're not had some tomato plants sometimes, you know.

But you know, Councilwoman Gross had, you know, introduced me to her district and kind of took me around all her little and and took me around all her little garden spots and you know, as much as food, and this was during the food crisis when people were lining up, you know, at food pantries and food banks at the time.

But um as much as that, what I really liked about it was the social uh aspect of it, you know.

And it really was like I could see the excitement in people's, you know, uh the energy that it brought and just brought the community together.

So um one thing I do have that Councilwoman Gross doesn't have is lot wide lots of land, yeah, you know, and lots of grassy areas that we could grow food.

So we set out you know many years ago, and we've come a really long way.

I look forward to talking more in depth with you and Councilwoman Gross as to where we're at and the whole thing, and and and you know, uh progress that we've made.

Uh Councilwoman Gross has had orchards forever.

But I have started a couple.

I have one in particular.

I have now sixty trees with we started about five, six five years ago, maybe I think was I planted my first tree, and we ate our first piece of fruit off of it this year.

I made Councilwoman Gross and her staff eat it first, and then they volunteer.

Uh I don't know how tasty it was, but it's small, you know, we're just in the beginning stages.

But these trees are growing and native plum, yeah.

Sorry, Bobby.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I mean, you know, and again, it really is about uh now I now have people stopping and weeding it on their own.

Okay, and just the community that it kind of brings together.

It's really exciting, and people love it.

We had signs made up and everything else.

We did pitch an idea to the Pedudo administration, going back to the Pedudo administration for a farm.

Okay.

I mean a legitimate basic farm.

Uh one 1.3 acre farm, which is part of a park that we have, Brookline Community Park.

Really, really beautiful park.

And on the back end of it, there's a 1.3 perfectly flat area.

Pristine, as councilwoman growth would say, you know.

We have we have a hard time finding good soil out there in Lawrenceville, but yeah, I was gonna say the darkest sometimes.

This used to actually be a farm, right?

Oh no way.

We tested the soil, soil comes back perfect.

Um, you know, and when we want to talk about not only growing food, but the social aspect where kids from all the city could actually visit this farm that we proposed.

And we did much more than just propose it.

We have a uh we spent 22,000 to what was the name of that the group that we um spatial uh yeah.

But they put a plan together for us as to how much produce we could pull out of it and everything.

So at the time again it started with with uh Mayor Peduto, but I want you to come out and visit this place.

I think this is like uh in Brooklyn, okay.

Yeah, and we'll get Councilwoman Gross and we'll we'll bring you out and we'll show you the plans that we already have made up.

Okay.

We'll show you that you know what we envision there and all that.

Um so yeah, I would really love your involvement in that and your interest in that and show you where we're gonna.

And I'll get the history from Andrew's team and stuff.

So yeah, yeah.

And we have all the history, but but and we did pitch this to then count, you know, Mayor Peduto and Chief Gilman at the time.

And you know, it was kind of on the later end of their years, so it never really really developed, but I'm hoping to re-spark it.

I and to this day, the people in Brooklyn come up to me, they sell all the plans, you know, we kind of marketed it.

We didn't have to market it, but you know, the press kind of marketed it for us.

And they say, Why don't you s when are you starting a farm?

I want to I want to work on the farm.

They uh I mean I had volunteers, uh wide variety of volunteers that want to work on the farm that we haven't built yet.

So we have a lot of okay pieces in place.

Yeah, and it really is again, it's not so uh yes, if we could feed people that's great.

I mean that's but to me that's a friend benefit.

I feel the social.

Yeah, there's like the community aspect, there's like the education aspect, but not just for my community.

Um I'm telling you, like, you know, this if the what we envision what we had planned is something that we'd bring kids from.

Yeah, like all the other schools teach them how to plant potatoes and you know, all whatever, right?

So I'm really excited about that.

I'm really excited.

We have a new administration that I feel is gonna listen to us and take it seriously, and that starts with you, as you said to Councilman Wilson.

Anything on land starts with planning, so we're gonna start with you, okay?

And we're gonna get you out there at some point.

Right.

And I wonder if like you could work with like Tree Pittsburgh and some of the things that we're gonna do.

We they're all on board.

Uh they're they're they're all signed up.

They they loved our idea.

They've all came out to the site and visited with us, and you know, yeah.

So we got everybody on board basically at this point.

So we'll figure out all we need is administration and a few bucks, and you know, it's part of our city farms program, so you know it's already a lot of components are in place, including an employee and a in a truck.

So yeah, so so uh and there's not much there to do.

I mean, obviously there's a lot of work there, but you know, it's we got such a beautiful piece of property there to work with, so I look forward to that.

Okay.

Um I just want to piggyback off what Councilwoman Gross was saying, and uh we will set that up with in spring.

Awesome.

Okay.

When the weather breaks.

Okay.

So what I wanted to do while I had some other members here was talk to you about you and I, what we talked about as to the comp plan.

And you knew that obviously that I put in legislation that Ix Navy that rested at two million dollars.

Yeah.

We have since put that on hold.

Thank you.

Um and I'm gonna just give them a brief synopsis as what we talked about.

You can correct me if I'm right or wrong.

And then if any questions they might have on this, I wanna I want them to chime in too.

So we talked, and what I asked you was, you know, um, do you feel you need the comp plan for you moving forward?

And you said yes.

Yes.

And I and and and to and I as I told you then, we all wanted to finish the company.

We have four million dollars invested in it.

We don't want that to go by the wayside and just be like a waste of four million dollars.

The comp plan, whether you believe in a comp plan or not, um, you know, we still I didn't want to leave that money out there.

But we also weren't happy with the way it was being spent.

We weren't happy with the engagement.

Not only it wasn't just me, it was six of us that said, yeah, no, we'll stop that money right now until we get you know a firm grip as to what is the data.

Yeah.

So in our conversation, Yvette has informed me that there is good data there.

Yes, there's a little bit of a lot of things.

Right.

Right.

And in talking, you know, I told you what uh again, I thought this was before Councilwoman Warwick with the proposal on the raise taxes, so it was like desperate.

It was like two million dollars.

Yeah, we need that back.

I'm not saying I want to spend it now either, but we're not in as desperate a stage, I felt at the time.

And quite frankly, we just didn't want to waste two million dollars on something we really don't know about.

Yeah.

So you promised you will engage with all of us as to why it's important and what it's important, what's important to us moving forward in our district, using the data that has already been collected.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you claim there's a lot of good data there, which is great.

Yeah, which and the other portion of the money.

Um, this is a 25 year plan, so it doesn't have to be done next week.

Or you know, I spoke to Chief Gilman and is it Chief Gilman or Deputy Mayor Gilman is it chief?

Chief.

Okay, Chief.

I spoke to Chief Gilman, and you know, he had informed me he's gonna try to raise the money to finish because they I know the administration also wants to see it finished.

And being that you want to see it finished, it even you know gives it more uh more teeth.

So and he I know is out there trying to raise money from foundations, you know.

We're rich with foundations here in Pittsburgh.

I don't know if he's had any luck on that or not, but I've agreed with you, and I want the other members to know that um you know I'll I think that's up next week for discussion.

So rather than Claude Epac, we'll continue to hold it to see if Chief Gilman has any luck on his end.

Okay.

And if he doesn't, for some reason, um can't raise any money for it, then we will talk, our members, at least the six of us who were uh for pulling that back, we will talk as to you know, um what portion you might need.

You'll come up with a figure maybe, and hopefully it's not all two million dollars.

But yeah, if we need to use that money, I will commit to using it because you feel it's so important and the administration wants it.

But I'm hoping not to, though.

I will tell you because we spent enough for taxpayer dollars on that really four million dollars, Councilwoman McGross will tell you.

No other city would came close to that, but much bigger cities than the city of Pittsburgh have comp plans at a fraction of the cost as to what we did.

So I would love to see the foundations or whatever monies you need to finish that.

But you have my commitment that you know we'll sit down, we'll talk about whatever we need to finish it.

If if he comes up empty, if Chief Gilman comes up empty, we'll figure it out as to what we need to do to finish it.

So I hope that's clear.

Yes, it was kind of summed up our conversation.

Encouraging and I've committed from our side, you know, we are putting together like uh um list of deliverables and a process and timeline and a budget.

So we commit to sharing that with you, so there's full transparency about the process and um you know what to expect and how the dollars are spent.

So I was never a bigger big believer in the plan, to be honest with you, but I'm not a planning expert.

I hope that you will be by the time it's over.

I know, I'm like at least come along for the ride, and hopefully we'll and at the very least I've always said Yvette.

Um, you know, if it helps us get grant money or you know, so that to me that makes sense to me.

That's what I say.

It'll be helpful for all of us.

And I think it was really a miscommunication of the planning department that we had, and I I was just like I I don't even know who you engage with in my district.

I I didn't feel was fruitful.

I didn't feel like there was any direction.

And I hope that you can clarify that and show me what a good comp plan can help guide us or at least my district into the future in the city of Pittsburgh as well.

So so that's all I just wanted to say that for other members to know our conversation around the comp plan and uh you know, obviously if you guys have any questions, now's the time on that.

No questions.

And um I'll just offer that as I offer to Councilman Cockhill.

If you want to be briefed on what we heard in your district, like we're happy to schedule a time to do that.

Like I know you wanted to, you know, review that and add anything that might be missing.

So I feel like we all need independently briefed on to like what specific districts or the city of Pittsburgh alone, you know.

Uh I just need clarification, I guess, and before I vote to spend another dollar of it.

But once I get that clarification, and if we again we can't get the money from outside sources or foundation sources, then I would be willing to, you know, tap back into that monies if as long as we only use half of it at the most.

I will yes, I can sneeze at it for me.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It is now close to three thirty, so you and I can chat off Lat about some thoughts that popped up during this discussion.

Um but the reality is I've known you for many, many years.

I highly respect you, and I believe you'll be a tremendous director.

Um so I thank you for your willingness to serve.

With that, having exhausted the business of this pre-agenda, we are adjourned.

Thank you, everybody.

Thank you, you know.