Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, uh, who are joining us for a public work session, citizens of Portsmouth.

Also want to recognize those in attendance of the city staff who is with us.

And uh thank you guys for being here.

Want to acknowledge uh our city manager, city manager Stephen Carter and your city.

Attorney Bon DeGram Williams, also our city clerk.

I want to thank my colleagues who are uh showing up tonight to do the work of the people.

Uh with that, uh Madam Clerk, would you please call the room?

Yes, sir.

Miss Bryant, present, Dr.

Dotson.

Present, Mr.

Hugo, present, Mr.

Moody.

Here.

Miss Thomas, Mr.

Tillett, here.

Mayor Glover.

Here.

Thank you.

Manager Carter, sure, you have the floor.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um Council, Vice Mayor, we have a couple presentations this evening.

One is on a mobile pay solution that we're proposing that uh will come to us in our near future.

The second one is about uh illegal dumping and bulk refuse challenges.

Uh both of those are informational.

Uh not asking for any action on from the council on either one of those, but those are just to give you some information and allow you to have uh up here to ask questions.

But before we do that, I am proud to introduce to you um Miss Jeanette.

Fernandez, yeah, she's back there.

I can I can see her.

Uh she is uh brand new CFO.

And uh we'd like to welcome her to our team.

We've been searching for a while and uh she has come filled with a spot that we needed very diligently.

So thank you so much for being here with me.

All right.

First presentation is by uh city engineer, Mr.

James Wright.

He's gonna talk to us about the T2 mobile pay parking solution.

Alright.

Uh mobile-based parking for anything.

Upgrade or play obsolete point operated parking meters and older pay stations.

Technology upgrades will also create operational efficiency and create a more user family customer experience.

That's not required.

Customers able to pay with their phone without touching a meter or using coin.

And at the end of each parking uh session, they're provided with a receipt.

Here is an example of a pay by pay by tax.

That's it on your phone.

You swept through it, enter information.

So if you're parking, can you proceed through with your uh with your transaction?

For the QR code, same type of experience.

And if you want to extend time, you get notification, then click on the link, and then you can add time to your parking session.

Um time frames that you add to your parking session can be customized.

The actual hourly parking to be customized as well.

Um, right now we intend to go with our current uh one-hour parking.

I think it's a dollar twenty-five per hour.

So we intend to basically uh go out with a an aggressive marketing campaign through uh marketing with uh Mr.

Pagola's office.

Uh we've already informed the parking authority board.

We're providing them with additional information and then they get emailed that are contacted by reach out to OTBA and also to economic development.

The goal would be to create awareness and highlight the benefits of this mobile pay parking solution.

So the roll out every two weeks, we get to a different different group of facilities.

It'll take us 30 to 45 days to the back to the point where we have this long plan where the process now for the final contract executed.

Once those contracts are executed, it takes possibly three weeks, and then the development information that we need, and then it's up to us with the training and other things to get these things on the ground for customers to use downtown with that uh, but I'll take any questions that you might have.

Any questions from my colleagues?

Councilman Dice.

Yeah, so the only complication I've seen with these systems is people uh uh slapping on take QR codes on the signs and then reverting the money to their accounts.

Um have you seen or heard, or has that been a problem that you've heard about?

We we've heard we've heard about it in the industry.

Um this particular group hasn't indicated they had any issues with that, but it's something that we're still looking into right now, as far as how we would address that, or even if QR code would be an option based on some of the challenges because there are two options, we can strictly go with tax option, right?

And that's uh what we decide to do based on potential issues of QR code.

Thank you for your presentation.

This is a really great upgrade.

Thank you.

How are you doing, Councilwoman Thomas?

Go to email.

Thank you.

Glad to get a special announcement.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you.

Good to see you, man.

It's a good ring a bell.

Yeah.

I tried to do the church hanger in here, but okay.

We we couldn't make it.

I was gonna ask what what's the uh cost for uh implementing the system?

It's the minimal cost, it's between eight to ten thousand dollars to get this up and down, and then it's the maintenance of the signs and then and uh basic operations in the parking authority, but the initial uh the physical piece of it is eight to ten thousand dollars.

Okay, you know I've got I've got to say that uh those of us who were on the trip to uh Greenville, uh I would like to say there'll be a day when our main street, also known as High Street, uh has uh free parking uh as they had in Greenville.

They did have some uh just very few areas where there were a two-hour parking, but from what the mayor said that that uh really they had a lot of leeway in that uh they didn't run out and mark somebody's tires at the two-hour time limit.

But uh I think uh what they found that that's extremely conducive uh to business.

Uh and uh they felt like uh the their return on uh uh uh not levying parking offset any uh any monetary gain from charging people to park.

So I think that's one of those things we need to certainly keep in mind uh as we work to uh improve our city and particularly our old town corridor, uh high street corridor.

So I think that's one of those things we need to certainly keep in mind as we work to uh improve our city and and particularly our old town corridor, uh high street corridor.

Uh so thank you, Vice Mayor.

Councilman Hugo, sir, you have the floor.

Yeah, thanks, Mr.

Mayor.

So I became the council liaison to our parking authority back beginning of January.

Since then, we have had two high street business owners come visit us at parking authority.

Both of them complained that they had bags full of parking tickets that they were handed by their customers because their customers needed more than two hours to park on high street to take advantage of their business.

One was a hair thing, and one was a restaurant.

So I'm pleased that we're going in this direction.

I appreciate what what the vice mayor said about free parking on high street.

We kind of have free parking on high street because right now, at the end of two hours, the parking gurus are writing tickets, and I don't know how many of those tickets are getting paid, but I know there are business owners that are collecting tickets from their customers and sitting on the tickets, and so one, I think we need to figure out what are we going to do with all those uh delinquent parking tickets that have accumulated.

Um I would at least make the case uh perhaps unfairly.

Secondly, as we've talked about in the in the parking authority, um the high street issue is complicated.

Uh we really have kind of a couple of intertwined issues.

So we have businesses and restaurants that would like to or need to have longer than two-hour parking.

This offers that opportunity because if we implement along high street, we can make the first two hours free and then start charging and let people pay for the extra 15 minutes or hour or whatever it is that they need to visit the businesses along high street.

But if you go back one slide, please, you'll notice that groups one, two, three, four, no, no, no, just one slide.

Yeah, so groups one, two, three, four, and five don't mention high street.

So we need a group six, and group six needs to tackle parking along high street with this app.

So parking longer than two hours is an issue.

That's one issue for customers.

Parking for um business employees.

So we have uh restaurants that hire 16-year-olds, and those restauranteers have told me uh they closed down their business early because they can't afford to face moms and dads of 16-year-olds and tell them, yeah, we send them out the door at 11 o'clock to find their way to the Middle Street Garage because it's not safe to go to the Middle Street Garage if you're a 16-year-old young lady.

So finding parking for employees that the business owners are comfortable with is an issue that they brought to the parking authority.

Third issue is we talked last night about our Greenville experience and how important it is to get residents living above the shops along our main street.

Well, we have less some residents living above the shops, and they don't place to park, except on high street, and so some of the parking tickets that they accumulate are parking tickets that they themselves get because particularly if they live in the six and seven hundred blocks of high street, so now I'm talking about West End away from all of the garages which are on the east end of High Street, uh too far away for them to uh to walk and particularly at nighttime.

Uh so all of those things are things that the parking authority, and I noted that that the city engineer described them as the parking authority board.

So that's interesting because the manager and I have been talking about once upon a time the parking authority was the parking authority, and we created an enterprise fund, and the enterprise fund for parking was intended to make parking self-sustaining.

So we collect revenue on parking, and we use that to build garages and take care of garages and stripe parking spaces and manage mobile pay systems and all that.

Well, I don't know how long ago the parking authority became the parking authority board, and the city engineer became the parking authority, but that's the way it is right now, folks.

The city engineer is your parking authority.

All the decisions about how, where, and who parks where are made by the city engineer and the parking authority board is simply an advisory group uh to this point.

Now the manager and I have been talking about and maybe it's time to turn the parking authority board back into the parking authority and pin them, pin a rows on them to tell them time for parking to become self-sustaining again.

We have an opportunity with group one, two, three, four, and five to actually start charging and collecting for parking in our garages.

We need to figure out what that means, how much revenue it potentially can create because one of the parking issues that we're getting ready to deal with is we're gonna knock down the harbor tower garage as part of the holiday in renovation, and there's 250 cars from Harbor Tower that park in that garage and pay the city for the opportunity to park in that garage.

And so we're gonna have to figure out for those 250 cars where are they gonna park while we're doing that holiday in renovation?

So the parking authority board, the parking authority, the city manager, the economic development group, the EDA are all having discussions, but there ain't no easy solution to that discussion, and to be honest, there's no real easy solution to how we gonna handle parking on high street, how are we gonna extend time for people that want to park?

Are we gonna solve the problem for employees that are 16 years old?

How are we gonna provide parking for our residents?

But if you remember what we saw in Greenville, the vice mayor mentioned parking was pretty much free along the main street, but they had garages one or two blocks away from Main Street, kind of hidden from Main Street, and all those people that lived upstairs paid for and went to park in in uh in those locations, and we don't have a lot of those locations that people feel safe to go park in after the sun goes down.

And if I could add to what uh councilman Hugo said, uh their parking garages were mixed use.

They they they had a uh some of them.

Uh yeah, some of them.

Uh uh they they had uh condos uh uh as part of the parking garage.

Well, it's kind of the way our harbor tower arrangement is now, it's mixed use.

The garage is beside the tower, but they walk out the side door of the tower directly into the garage where their cars are parked, and and so for those 250 cars that are owned by the people in that tower, they've been blessed with the convenience of walking right next door, and when we go to tear that garage down as part of the waterfront development, uh that convenience will be interrupted for a little while while we're doing construction.

As long as their F 50 is not uh raised too high off the ground, they can they can park there.

Yeah, anyway, uh a lot to say we need a group six, and group six is uh figuring out the high street solution, which is just gonna solve the first of those problems, which is uh what what are the customers do when they hit two hours and and and we want to give them the opportunity to pay for our hour number three on the app?

Yeah, yeah, Consumer Hugo alluded to this um and didn't say it directly.

Um parking authority is that whole group is supposed to be self-sufficient.

So they have you mean you mean self-sustaining financially, it's supposed to be self-sustainable.

Exactly.

Uh well, today if not, right?

And one of the things that this council's gonna have to grapple with is yeah, we like to have free parking.

We like to have two hours of free parking at the beginning.

We all these things are cool.

Uh but you have to pay for those some kind of way.

So the more the more free we give, the more general fund that has to go to make sure that that thing is whole.

Mr.

Mr.

Carter, do we have do we have I'm sure we do historically?

What what kind of dollars in that enterprise fund?

Well, what what kind of dollars were in there that we collected?

Yes, I I think I'd like to know that.

And in addition to that, um for example, as councilman Hugo was talking about the traffic, the cars that are currently in the old holiday in parking garage, once we move forward with the development of that, those 250 cars would have to go somewhere.

Yes.

And so currently on the middle street garage, what's the capacity on the middle street garage?

Do we know?

Do you know that off the top of your head, James?

Yeah.

Okay.

But we can get that for you.

Could it absorb an additional 250 cars?

Probably not.

Yeah.

That garage is pretty much full.

Okay.

As far as a lot of Coast Guard rentals in there during the day.

So after hours is different story, but during the daytime, it's it's mostly um government and some other folks in there.

Okay.

I'm just you're gonna get people screaming at you about the con you talked about that convenience piece.

If I'm paying and I can walk out my door and park, I'm not sure I want to go to Middle Street to park.

No, I I I can't, but but but the reality is they're gonna have to go somewhere.

Exactly.

You know, you're not sure or not.

We're gonna have to figure out something.

Right, and we're looking at different places to temporarily put them sure while we do things like that.

But that comes at a cost also.

So if we're gonna build a temporary parking spot for those people to park because they already pay the city, that then the cost of that has to be factored into a good parking authority also.

One last question.

Yes, sir.

How soon, and and I know you know I'm not asking for a definitive time, but is there an appetite or a discussion for us prior to that to perhaps look at the feasibility of engaging in building a new parking garage sooner rather than later?

Do we have any space that we've considered downtown in this corridor to do something like that?

Uh there's the plan to rebuild County Street.

I understand.

But I don't I don't know that well, I I can I won't say I don't know.

I know that we have not discussed building an additional garage any place if that's what you're talking about, yes, sir.

Okay.

Did you want to float in and then council?

Yeah, Mr.

Wright had mentioned uh uh delinquent uh parking tickets.

Uh do we know uh what monetary value uh is outstanding and I don't have it off the top of my head, but absolutely we know.

And I can get that for you.

And how do how do we follow up to uh collect the parking tickets?

Well, first of all, it has to be an appetite to do it.

Okay, because people are gonna start screaming at you guys when we start trying to do things like that.

So if there's an appetite to do that, we we can absolutely there's a whole mechanism to compel people to pay, even you know, through collections and and to court and that kind of thing.

So there's a mechanism to compel, but but we haven't done that, and do we have the appetite to live through that?

Well, from what you're saying, we we have free parking now.

Yes, if you decide you don't want to pay your parking ticket, well remember now you talked about the people walk with a bag full of tickets, right?

Yeah, that means they never paid.

Yeah, okay.

That's what I'm getting at.

So I might pay my ticket.

He he decides he's not gonna pay us a ticket.

Either we enforce it or we we we shouldn't have the the fee on the books, you know.

I agree.

All right, and I don't have a problem with that, but I'm not an elected official.

So, you know, they're gonna call you and then you're gonna call me.

So I just need to know that when when they call you and then call me and say, okay, Steve, what are we gonna do about this ticket?

And I say they're gonna have to pay it.

Is that okay?

Is that is that something that we want to do?

Councilwoman Bryant, you have to float in council.

So to that point, and then I have an additional question.

Um I know there's been some conversation, Mr.

Wright, with you amongst the residents in Old Town in the neighborhood regarding parking where we have decals, but the enforcement is not really there either.

So there's been sort of some low-level conversations over the last few years about why would I even get a decal because nobody's ever gonna ticket me anyway, which in some areas is okay, okay.

There's plenty of parking, but where there's more um congestion residences, it it can be problematic.

So that just goes to the enforcement piece where we're gonna have details, we should be enforcing parking tickets within the survey.

Yeah, and then with that garage coming down at the harbor tower, yes, ma'am.

You know, I think we can't anticipate that that's the closest place to park for those tower residences directly in the neighborhood.

So enforcement may become important more important as that project continues.

So aside from that, looking at this list of garages, um and to councilman Hugo's point, it's definitely a problem on the west end as you get closer to Eppingham, where if I'm getting my hair done at Studio Cay, that's really where the issue is where if it's taking more than two hours, so there's no garage parking down that way.

That's getting pretty close to the link district.

So and we talked last night about making sure there's connectivity between high street to the link district.

Would it make sense to put parking on that easternmost side of the link district to serve that westernmost part of high street?

I understand what you're saying.

That can be considered early, I know, but that that might be a a place where a place doesn't currently exist on High Street, it could be nearby still because we want High Street to be walkable and it is walkable, but when it is a hundred degrees out, you don't want to park in the county street garage and walk all the way up to post-secondary to have a drink because you're gonna be a hot mess by the time you get there.

So um, but there is there's very limited parking at that end.

Oh councilwoman, go ahead.

Okay, thank you.

Um so I'm gonna stay on the enforcement piece as well because I do think you know it's great to have the mobile parking pay um implement it, but if we don't have the enforcement, we're still back to where we were with our current parking system.

So I see on the first slide here with the overview, it says um this mobile pay is going to integrate with our current parking enforcement system.

Can you walk me through what system means?

How is a parking ticket currently is in uh you know I guess provide it or give it to someone that's parked over the time limit?

It's written by human, I'm guessing.

So currently, can you walk me through that process?

Currently, parking enforcement technicians have um not add it as the park enforcement technology on it, so a digital chop the tire spent.

So basically it's quick if the coordinate CPS coordinates one.

Um they basically get through the route and then come back and they come back to recheck if it's exceeded the two hours, then they have a ticket printer where they can generate a ticket license plate and then leave it on the um dashboard.

I mean, not the one shield for the uh the park cost.

And then what happens now the ownership is in the person that received the parking tickets hand?

What happens on the city side with the person that's issued it through the iPad that created a record?

What happens with them in terms of it's now it seems like it's on the person that received the ticket to then pay the ticket, otherwise it goes it disappears.

How do we integrate or use our technology from that iPad that system that created a record to move forward with some type of reimbursement collection?

Because if not, we have the same issue.

If we're still just connecting mobile pay to our current system, it still just disappears into air.

So, how are the how is the human element the people we're paying for parking enforcement?

How are they integrated to to close the gap that we're missing here?

So there's a there's a process within the T2 enforcement system where get to a certain point it triggers notifications then to the customer that hey, you have a ticket today.

That's after whatever the participated court date would be if they chose to go to court a certain amount of time.

I don't know what the exact time is.

Um they get a certain number of reminders, and then it goes into a collection that's all handled through through the parking system, right?

So the only the parking enforcer, the people that are walking around citing the tickets, their only job is to cite parking tickets.

Well, they look for parking park parking violations of all kinds, they look for um proper signage that um basically they come to a place and or right now you have meters.

So meters not working, they're not gonna give that person a ticket when they're gonna report that the meters on operational or say the signage isn't clear or fate, it can't be read, and I report that information.

And then just to provide general information and guidance to people who are out here, can I park in this lot or can I park here and stuff?

Enforcement sort of plus.

Can we use those individuals in a additional capacity to aid in the follow-up enforcement collection of tickets as well?

Um not positive that that can be done with with the existing people that no.

Okay, well, with the integration of the additional technology, there's I don't I don't shouldn't that remove some of the hand-to-hand people aspect because technically the system will now generate or notify when a customer's time has expired, therefore generating some sort of um you know, ticket expiration charge.

So doesn't that take remove some of the normal day to day writing of a ticket at parking expect expiration from the current individuals that do that job?

I'm trying to understand if we integr usually when you integrate more technology, you take some of the day-to-day people aspect out.

So how do we use the people that we have in parking enforcement that are currently paid in that um job responsibility to maybe help with some of the enforcement piece that we're missing in the overall process?

Well the enforcement piece does not align the hand of the group that write the tickets.

Who does that lie in the hand then?

That line the hands of if we end up going to court or those kind of things.

That's what you have to do with a ticket.

Like where a police officer write a ticket.

All right.

Well, he don't come back around and try to make sure that you pay the ticket.

He writes the ticket, his piece of that ends unless he has to go to court to defend the ticket that he wrote.

How are so councilman Hugo mentioned there's bags of tickets?

Right.

Those bags of tickets never made it to court.

Right.

There's a gap somewhere.

Right.

I'm trying to see how do we address the gap.

Because we're gonna implement mobile pay, great.

How do we address the gap where we just don't have a bunch of male mobile tickets?

Remember that conversation I just had about do we have the appetite to actually pr persecute all these tickets?

It's our only it's just we haven't done it.

So how why?

Because that's just been the mentality of Portion.

We just have not done it.

Do we not have the capacity to do it?

No.

We know how to do it, we can do it, we know how the process process.

Yeah, none of that none of that's the problem.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, none of that we're I think that's not a problem we're trying to solve as far as do we know what to do.

We know exactly what to do.

Who's supposed to do the process?

Are we paying people to do the process that are not doing the process?

That's that's why I'm getting getting to.

Okay.

All right.

But it has nothing to do with the people that write the ticket.

That is absolutely not their job.

Okay.

Thank you.

And when the new technology don't take away that we still have to have those same people to write the ticket.

It will make them more efficient in writing the ticket if we can write more.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Sorry about that.

That's all right.

We had mentioned that uh the plan is to build a parking garage uh on the county street.

Yes, yes, sir.

The one we just took down.

Have we have we got an estimate on what that cost would be?

I recall when we built the Middle Street garage cost for a parking garage for parking space is extremely uh expensive.

It is uh I don't have it as a separate piece, but what we're looking at building is a city hall and a parking garage there.

So I have it as a package piece, but uh I but as we were talking about perhaps building other satellite parking garages.

Right.

We might want to uh uh look at what that costs nowadays uh runs.

And I think that's why Greenville incorporated uh uh you know a mixed use piece to try to offset some of that cost.

So if uh one of the things that cities will do sometimes is incentivize developers when they're building something, well if you build some a parking garage with that, you know, we'll give you some incentives from the cities to help move that process along.

So that's normally how those things are done.

And I think that's what the mayor uh alluded to.

That's exactly right.

They created a special tax incentive district, remember?

Yep, the tax the TIFF program.

Right.

That was a part of their reason for putting that in place to encourage developers, right?

To bring in additional dollars to get those types of projects completed.

Because as you know, uh I mean the city is limited, so you have to look at public private partnerships to fund that because it's it's pretty expensive.

So there are there are ways to get there.

uh alluded to that's exactly right they created a special tax incentive district remember yep the tax the the TIFF program right that was a part of their reason for putting that in place to encourage developers right to bring in additional dollars to get those types of projects completed because as you know I mean the city is limited so you have to look at public private partnerships to fund that because it's it's pretty expensive so there are there are ways to get there absolutely bottom line there are ways to get there I think we have to investigate it but um it sounds like I I guess my question is too with the T2 systems we're gonna put these um QR codes on signs or something right well aesthetically uh are we gonna put them like you know are we gonna have them all over the place like or do we have like a plan of how to install these where they aesthetically look pleasing right that's part of the part of the rollout and the conversations that we have we we're gonna go with best practices with people that's on the conversion and try to follow suit.

Okay that sounds good go ahead well the the unresolved piece uh as we said here is are we gonna give the manager direction are we gonna start enforcing parking tickets are we we're gonna continue to collect bags uh of uh uncollected tickets okay wasting employees times if we're talking so councilman yeah so um let me say this about that the businesses that are collecting bags of parking tickets have been asking the city can you please issue us parking passes yes we'll pay for them we'll pay the city cash money for parking passes so that we can give them to our customers so our customers can extend their parking into the third hour so it's not that the business owners are trying to be pesky they're trying to do the right thing and some of trying to do the right thing to take care of their customers.

The challenge and uh well I'm gonna get to the punchline a second but the challenge here is the grocery bags of parking tickets belong to lots and lots of people and so it's not like we're gonna go to the business owner and say you're gonna owe us a thousand dollars for all the parking tickets in that in that grocery sack because the parking tickets weren't written to the business owner they were written to Joe and Sally and sure and everybody else that uh that that was we parked for the extra 15 minutes past two hours so now the punchline I I think if we want to begin enforcing then I'll take that to the parking authority board and start the discussion around turning the parking authority board back into a parking authority and I told the city manager I think the parking authority board the people that are serving as volunteers are interested in becoming the parking authority again but the people that are on there aren't people that were a parking authority before and so they're gonna need a little bit of business help from the city staff to figure out if we're gonna run this like a business and generate revenue to cover the the enterprise you know to fill the enterprise fund bucket so that we can build new parking garages and take care of the stuff that we have we're gonna need to do some homework as somebody pointed out before okay how much revenue do we do we need to collect and that group then I think ought to be bringing a recommendation to council around should we be doing two hours of free parking or free parking on high street and and charging like crazy every place else at the end of the day if it's gonna become self-sustaining it ain't self-sustaining right now and some of that's because we haven't been collecting some of it's because we haven't been cashing in on parking tickets I do think we ought to forgive the parking tickets that are out there now because you know if I got a parking ticket six months ago and nobody's been pestering me for six months and suddenly I get a knock on the door you know $15 for your parking ticket from six months ago I I think I'd probably want to contest uh I don't I don't have any idea what you're talking about and it's it's gonna be a headache to to track all that stuff down I think frankly I agree with that kidding help the mayoral you know the same you need to call my name I think quick potential quick fix could we change two hours to three hours to give salon and restaurant customers just an extra hour that might solve some of the business headaches or four hours I mean we don't have to stick to that would be that's that's that um and to councilman Hugo's point I I do think it's probably good to excuse those parking tickets that are backed up it it does sound like a tremendous headache um when we did start ticketing in the downtown high street area it felt very sudden to a lot of businesses and customers uh was the feedback that I received and there was a lot of well you guys never did this before why is it happening down now especially coupled with the garage being taken down so to this information campaign this is an excellent time to start collecting on parking tickets and

It it does sound like a tremendous headache.

Um when we did start ticketing in the downtown high street area, it felt very sudden to a lot of businesses and customers.

Uh was the feedback that I received, and there was a lot of well, you guys never did this before, why is it happening down now?

Especially coupled with the garage being taken down.

So to this information campaign, this is an excellent time to start collecting on parking tickets and warn people plenty in advance this is happening.

Tickets will be enforced, all the marketing, all the communication to people so that they know that this is happening to make it a smooth transition.

I think that would be very helpful.

Okay.

Council.

Okay, thank you.

Um the issue of the business owners, um, you said that they wanted to even pay for like parking passes.

Um something I know in Norfolk.

There's two hour parking, but if you're business, you can't pay like a fee to allow parking validation to your customers if they're there, because there's like we have a new doctor's office downtown enforcement.

Some of those appointments might, you know, are along.

We do have certain businesses and operations.

I don't so there is an option that I wanted to throw out there where you know we can mimic what downtown Norfolk offers for some of their businesses where they pay a certain fee and they can you know provide a parking validation um for their customers, but uh we don't have a that requires like a this type of machine as well to to implement.

Um secondly, I want to go back to the vice mayor's ask.

I do think even with all the discussion, even if we forget the parking tickets that haven't been enforced.

We I know you said we know how to enforce, but it's been a just a you know, mindset of lack of enforcement.

It was a purpose this purposefully.

Okay.

I do think the the ask of the vice mayor to to make sure that if for s mr.

Carter to come back to council with our plan and some information about how we're gonna enforce in the future.

Even if we have a way to enforce, it hasn't been put in place.

So I do agree with the vice mayor that some direction that we should provide to you is to come back to us with we're gonna start enforcing on this date.

We're gonna make that known to the public that any tickets received after this date will be enforced.

This is how it would be enforced, bringing that information back to us of how that process is gonna happen because I don't think I'm not aware of it, and I'm not sure if all my cop council colleagues are either.

So I think that would be helpful as we move forward with now changing and shifting the mindset of enforcement while realizing we didn't have it in before, so I do agree as well.

We should probably forgive any tickets that were likely or loosely enforced.

You did there was no ask of the council for this meeting.

This was to listen to the conversation that you guys are having so that we can purpose something and bring it back to you.

We there was no ask in this meeting.

Oh no, the so I think from the conversation of this meeting the ask is we realize we have an enforcement issue, and even with the information of implementing the mobile pay, we're gonna be back at square one without really having you provide us some information about with this you know investment to um implement this new mobile pay.

This is how we will be moving forward with enforcement in the future, and this is how our citizens will be made aware, this is how it's gonna happen.

Um if I that's that's the asset I think I think is what's uh relevant from this conversation.

Right, absolutely.

Is that something you okay?

Sounds good.

A couple couple points.

How many meter maids do we have?

Meter made, I think that's a good one.

Oh my goodness.

That's good chuckle.

Yeah, well, I don't think they call them meter maids anymore.

Parking technicians.

Okay, how many do we have?

Not since 58, I think.

How many do we have?

Three.

Three.

And so the job they're doing right now is currently useless and waste of their of their time and our money.

Absolutely not.

No, absolutely not.

If we're not enforcing the tickets, if they don't enforce.

No, they did their job.

Okay.

Again, it is not their job to enforce the ticket that they write.

However, it is their job to help manage parking in our comp in our community, and that's really what they're doing.

Encouraging people to move on with their park too long.

Now we may not enforce the ticket that they get, but at least they move, you know, so that somebody else can park there.

Absolutely the job that they do for our city is a valuable job, but we still need them to do that job for our city.

It just seems like it's would be if I was in that job, it would be very frustrated if my tickets were not being enforced.

Actually, one of the things that I really try to stress to all of our uh teams, we have a we have a portion of a job to do that's part of a bright job.

Right.

If I don't do what I'm supposed to do, I absolutely don't want you to stop doing what you're supposed to do.

I understand.

The point I'm trying to get to though is that if if we're gonna have them out there doing their job, we need to back them up.

And I think that it would be important to to put the backup plan to proceed with impacting those people up.

So I'm going by the argument kind of in a backwards way.

I I apologize.

That's my point is that if we're gonna do this, let's not just sit here and do what we're doing now because it's we're wasting a lot of time and money.

Let's let's move move on and see if we can get well if you know me.

That's my that's my position on a lot of things that we do.

I do, sir.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you, and I appreciate it very much.

Not a problem.

So so I will share, you know, and and I I agree with Mr.

Carter.

So last week, and I'm not gonna name any organizations, but he and I had a meeting with the leader of an organization that's an important organization in our city in our downtown corridor.

And and it was a little bit contentious, uh, not from our standpoint, but the person that showed up to the meeting, he had a parking issue.

Yeah.

And because he has volunteers in his organization who contribute a lot to the organization, uh, he was very frustrated that things were changed in his mind.

It wasn't that that the policy wasn't always there, but the enforcement, I think putting the tickets right.

Right.

And so he gave he gave us an ultimatum, pretty much.

He said, Look, um, I went to my board, they're they're not happy, w we can't move forward with our projects.

This is causing us significant issues to the degree that we might have to consider not taking care of the community the way we have been.

And Mr.

Carter and I listened, and we came back with that.

We are going to investigate and see what perhaps type of remedy we can provide.

I say all that to say that Mr.

Carter's right.

Um, you know, we as a community, and this is not what it's not about the blame game.

It's just that if we are going to have this enterprise fund and we're going to have it for the purposes of subsidizing or creating more parking, and we have a process, we need to just have a process that people know what it is and set the expectation.

What we're gonna do, I think that's what people really need to know.

Whether it's free parking, paid parking, two hours, four hours.

People just want to know what it is and what to expect to have their expectations.

That's what I heard.

Well, would that be accurate?

That's accurate across the board.

You know, when when we when we don't do things on a consistent basis, that's the thing that frustrates people.

Um my team have heard me say this, but uh my definition of frustration is unmet expectations.

Think about all the things that frustrate you, whether it's personal, professional, whatever.

You had an expectation about something that was going to happen, and it didn't happen the way that you expected it to happen.

Right.

But even if it's not what you want, you know it's coming and you know how to deal with it, it's not as frustrating because you know it it met what the expectation was.

So what we have to be better at what I talked to our team about a lot is consistently.

We can't do it today, and then you know, six months from now, we don't like it anymore, so we can't do it.

We gotta be consistent in the way we provide service to our customers.

It's gotta be consistent in the way that we enforce things that we do around our city.

We just got to be consistent in who we are at at always being the best that we can be, doing the best job we can, giving the best service.

No, and I think that's that's where we need to need to be headed in.

The last thing I'll say, you know, I parked downtown, and believe it or not, I have my mayor stickers and other stickers in my car, and I've gotten several tickets.

But let's not Deborah always gets after me with mayor.

Um parked in no, I wasn't.

But okay.

Another story.

In any event, I I think my tickets.

I just want you to know.

Well, okay.

First year old so so to his point, and and I think that I mean, I think we've been reasonable in in that we've been given it the free hours of parking.

Perhaps that's a that's a reasonable um compromise.

And then after that, start adding you know the charges.

But in any event, I agree with Mr.

Carter 100%.

By the way, that that organization leader who shared his frustration.

Um, when Mr.

Carter left the room, he said to me, you know, I'm sorry that I was contentious with you guys, but I'm just frustrated.

This is what he said.

And that was to me, that was the overriding thing.

Frustration, lack of consistency, knowing what to expect.

Um, that's where we need to be.

So that's what I expect.

I think all of us expect that you all will bring us back something.

I like this process.

It gives people control, right?

Of the outcome.

But if it's truly an enterprise fund, it needs to produce some income.

Exactly.

Um, that's what enterprise funds are for.

But the good great conversation.

I we appreciate that.

We've taken all the comments down, and we will put a plan together to bring it back to you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um, Mayor, I just want to before we move forward and waiving the tickets.

If that's what we're gonna do, could we we need to discuss a demarcation of where the where the line begins?

Um, there are gonna be several people already in the court system, and they're gonna be people who've already paid, so we just need to um address when that is, and I'll get with the manager if that's the will of the account.

And then um additionally, I think as we are moving forward with some of these ideas, particularly with the influence of Greenville, that we are always considering the cost analysis of each decision, whether it is giving or taking or creating because we don't have the same resources that we had before with um the changes that we've seen financially in the market, and so I just wanted to also make that note that we um uh made an effort to be more conscious about that, and then lastly, we've committed to MBWE discussions on that, and I think um as we're moving forward, we want to also be conscious that that's something we committed to.

We need to revisit that every single day.

Every time then I think we'll be on the right path.

Thank you, thank you for your input, madam attorney.

And I think all that's prudent and appropriate, so we'll look forward to the the response from the engagement that you all participate in and and uh hopefully uh producing consistency.

Absolutely.

Thank you, sir.

It's back on me.

Not a problem.

Uh next is illegal dumping and bulk refuge job.

I will be your presenter for this.

I do have backup in the room just in case uh I need to call on some folks.

I have uh our waste management team here.

Um so as we go through this, uh if you give me questions that's too hard, uh these guys are gonna actually pick up the slide for me.

Okay, here.

All right, uh, am I controlled?

You are that in there.

All right.

You want me to do it?

No.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

Where are we right now?

Um residents can place bulk refuse on the curve without prior scheduling.

Um last couple of words there, and that cost recovery pieces.

Uh it's difficult sometimes for us to distinguish what is a legitimate set out for bulk refuge and what is illegal bumping.

Um that has become more and more evident.

I have one of my favorite vice mayors who send me pictures all the time about who would that be?

Um we have uh an ordinance right now that allows boat collection on a weekly basis.

All right, but there's no scheduling or volume control inside that ordinance there.

It it does talk about uh a size.

Uh but once in in the end of this, you'll see what's uh one thing I want to talk about again.

It comes back uh to enforcing um the impact of this is that we have to bury all of our neighbors, all of our neighborhoods.

It is costing us more and more to try and manage that.

It creates inefficiencies in our operations when we have to schedule these un or maintain these unscheduled routes so we can keep our city clean.

Right now we have some what I call limited enforcement tools.

And fines are modest and inconsistent.

Okay.

Now inconsistent, not that the amount of it is inconsistent, but again, the enforcement is inconsistent.

The way the ordinances are currently, uh, we collect weekly, same day as trash without scheduling.

Residents may set out bulk items in the evening before.

Uh there are some size limitations for yard waste, uh, but not for furniture or household goods or white goods.

One of the things that we have noticed is there appear to be more and more contractor debris that we're having to deal with.

It appears that people in our city, uh, and I don't know if the contractors even live in our city, but there are people in our that that use our city that appear to know where the right places is to dump in our city, and it's repetitive.

So when that happens, uh we have to go out and try to keep ahead of that.

And the way we do that is by maintaining these unscheduled routes and picking up things when uh they were not properly scheduled or not properly placed.

Right now it's a class one misdemeanor.

Fines range from 250 dollars to 2500 and could go up to 12 months in jail.

Courts may already order community service in literate abatement as an alternative.

One of the things I'm going to ask this council to consider is encouraging our courts to make community service instead of may, make it mandatory if that's possible.

So I have to talk to my city attorney to see what kind of language that we can use to encourage that as a minimum and not a may.

Okay.

So it's just so I'm clear.

Yes, sir.

A violator violates that rule if they're convicted, they would be sentenced to helping clean up the community.

Absolutely.

That's all that is our I'm so sorry.

That's already an option in the under the statute now.

I guess what you're suggesting instead of the court have made that they have must.

Right.

So that was in addition to the fine.

Can be.

It can be.

Up to the court.

Uh the the depends on the judge.

But personally, okay.

It absolutely depends on the judge.

Yeah.

But I I would be more inclined to have them do the community service than the fine.

Now we do have options to uh through our code enforcement for abatement and an administrative fee and charging because if we can determine who to charge, then there's a process for us to actually get something done.

What are some gaps?

Uh I see no advanced scheduling as a gap because we have uncontrolled set asides in our neighborhoods.

We what normally happens is if we're in a certain neighborhood, every every neighborhood had a has a weekly route that we perform through that neighborhood.

Right.

Well, the the rule is put your uh bulk items out the day before in that neighborhood because it because it's the next day is your route.

We'll as we're going through, we'll identify those and we'll have somebody pick them up.

Problem is if I'm in one neighborhood, that somebody else in a different neighborhood is putting things out, that other neighborhood may stay there a week before we get back to that neighborhood to pick it up.

Well, in the course of that week, my vice mayor is gonna send me a picture and says, Hey, what do you guys do about this stuff on the side of the road?

Good crit right there.

So we have to jump in the truck, go out and try to fix that.

All right.

Well I'm asking is every bulk of waste pickup should be scheduled.

Not just because you have it's on your route, even if it's on your route, still scheduling.

That's what I'm asking.

We need to kind of uh strengthen our recovery.

Umist management is another enterprise fund.

Voice management is operating at a deficit as a def at a deficit.

Okay.

But I'm not asking you to do anything about that right now.

We'll talk about that during the budget season.

One of the things I'm asking for now is a mechanism that we can charge for unscheduled or oversized bulk pickup.

I'm not asking that we add an additional charge at this time for bulk pickup.

I'm asking that we add a fee for unscheduled bulk pickup.

Okay.

We'll talk about some volume limits as we go on through this process.

Um of course, uh enforcement is a court dependent.

And this is something I need to walk through our city attorney with also is what is it?

Is it possible to get our court enforcement able to write citations just like the police write citations, but write for citations in a different manner.

You know, they wouldn't be out writing speeding tickets, but they would write you a citation if they catch you doing this kind of thing.

And of course, there's always gonna have to be a consumer education piece, a citizen education piece where we make sure people know what we're about to do.

We don't want to just you know have this discussion today and start doing something tomorrow.

Matter of fact, I'm not asking you for anything today.

I'm not even asking you to you know make a decision on any of the things that we're talking about.

This is just like the last time, the last presentation, brother, is to provide information to you, listen to your comments, figure out where we need to go based on your comments, and then bring something back to you that we think we can get you to agree on and move forward with this is a few pictures of some of the sites around our city.

I don't know.

Some of these may look familiar to you.

I hope not.

And these aren't the same places.

This is different places around our city.

That's the one I call you on about monthly right there.

You see this?

Oh, we got cameras, they're gonna cameras here.

We put some cameras over in that spot.

That's what cameras have done.

Okay, there's more than 30 violations that have been captured, and we're in the process of trying to get those adjudicated.

Okay.

The camera is in plain view.

It's not hidden, it's got a blue light flashman at the top of it.

It's in plain view.

All right.

And these and these are just some random ones I picked out.

All right, to kind of give you an illustration that we have men, we have women, we have white, we have black, we have you you name it.

This is the same location, and that's what I mean by somebody in in our community have either said this is the spot to go or you know, through uh some underground way of telling everybody they know this is where you go to dump all your trash.

All right, and again, a camera is sitting there, it's not hidden.

Lack of enforcement.

So, like that prior site that you show, is there a camera located in that area as well?

It is not, but there will be.

Good, thank you.

Oh still enforcement.

All right, what am I asking for?

We've already talked about some of these.

Schedule bulk pickups in advance, have a fee associated with unscheduled or oversized setups.

The last two, we have a maximum size per household of eight by ten by eight.

Eight feet by ten feet by eight feet tall.

That's a lot.

That's a lot.

There it is.

And the other thing that I really want us to do is when we get you on camera like that, and and we assign a citation to you.

If your contractor is coming into my city to do this, I I want to hit you harder than everybody else.

Now I I don't want anybody doing it.

But if you're a contractor purposefully coming into my city to do what you're doing, I won't I want I want to really make them pay.

Um those things we can consider raise the fine.

Yeah, I think that's and clarify that community service pickup right now says may be a posed, but it's only imposed by count by the course, brother.

Can I get my counsel to kind of I guess move that to a minimum sentence instead of a May sentence?

Yes, sir.

Um enable code enforcement to issues uh civil citations, and of course, if there are situations where you know we're prone to storms, hurricanes, uh, national disasters, those kind of things, all those things kind of get lifted for time so that we could get that boat uh debris clean, get our city back to a normal state, and then reenact these things.

Right.

And again, there's a public uh piece of this where we really need to talk to our citizens uh about what we're doing, why we're doing what it looks like, show them some of these pictures that that you have seen today.

Uh it's not a knee-jerk reaction.

It that it is an actual problem in our city, and we have to figure out some way to address it.

So not asking for you guys to do anything today.

I'm just asking for you to kind of consider those things that I've talked about.

Uh, do you support adding scheduling?

Do you support cost recovery?

Do you support strong penalties?

Uh, should I uh code enforcement be able to uh issue citations?

What I can gauge the room from your conversation, we'll go back and we'll put something together and bring it back to you in a later work session and kind of incorporate those things same as we were talking about with the uh parking.

Listen to what you have to say, figure out how we can incorporate that into some language that makes sense and that we can enforce and bring that back to you.

But even in the meantime, we want to do some public education on what's going on in our city and why we're even considering this.

That's all I have.

Uh if I can entertain any questions that you may have, who what when where why?

Absolutely.

Okay.

Um out of reference, and I hope somebody else knows this.

I I remember seeing this somewhere on social media.

I want to say in the winter time, so it might be related to um salt on the roads.

I think it was Norfolk, and they created some kind of like a cone monster, of um using traffic cones that was kind of like a a joke, but a public safety reminder, and they get it out every winter as a reminder of like be safe on the roads.

So this is thinking very creatively.

Is there some kind of immediate campaign that we can launch to put something at these known dumping sites to sort of guilt people?

Like we know you're doing this.

This is unfair.

This is something that we could do very quickly, or maybe signage if you want to do something a little bit more traditional, but um, I'm gonna dig out the cone monster and send it to you.

You know it.

Okay, good.

I just thought it was really funny, and sometimes having something that's so eye-catching like that and kind of quirky and off beat can kind of grab people's attention.

And if we know that these spots are problematic, it might be something we can throw up as like we're watching, we know this is happening, be prepared for further enforcement in that same vein.

Um I don't want to say like shame people, but we have these pictures, their faces are blocked out.

I mean, do we put the blocked out?

I I bought them out.

Right, right.

I mean we know who they are.

What level of hey, we know you're doing this, can we put out there to kind of make it can I pass my seat attorney?

Can we make them infamous?

Can I pull these on the city?

No, you cannot.

But what we can do is use it for further enforcement.

So we just need some guidance.

I mean, this is shameful, and it it feels like with the parking and and this, like we we we want to raise expectations.

I mean, we talked about that at length last night.

We are setting a new bar of expectations, and this is unacceptable.

We know it's a problem, so yeah, there's there's maybe some creative angle that we could take on that.

Yes, ma'am.

However, if we do give notice that this will be publicly made available, and we give notice to people that it's going to be the it's I mean, we're a public entity and what we have is foyable.

So technically it could be FOIA, but um we can then use it once we get the notice that it would be out of um I don't know if that's really where you want to go, but that's yes, no production.

Thank you, ma'am.

Councilman Dodson didn't cut a Vice Mayor Moody.

So I've lived in 21 different localities in my lifetime, and one locality that we had uh refuse uh collection refused to pick up the trash if they saw any construction debris in it.

It had to be called in, and if it was left in your yard, you got it fine.

Um but there was a mechanism for doing it where you could purchase a large bag and you could put it in there and pay a hundred dollar fee, and they would pick it up then, or they let it sit up until the next time they could get to it.

And it was very effective them not picking up the trash if they saw it.

Um I mean they just drive right by it.

You couldn't stop them, you couldn't ask any questions.

Yeah.

Um and I'm so glad you're picking up why I've called numbers of times, I've called the police that called refuse, and I it's I was ready to go through the trash there myself to get names and addresses out of the out of the trash for the phone numbers.

You know in our ordinance you can't dig through the trash, right?

I was ready to because it's gotten so bad on why it sometimes you can't drive down the street.

Yes, sir.

Um but thank you very much for picking that up.

I appreciate that a lot.

And and yes, I I would be very interested in you coming back uh with some proposals.

Thank you so much for addressing this.

Well, and and let me absolutely make this clear.

You call me, I call somebody else.

They're the ones that actually go pick it up.

So we really need to thank those men and women that's out there every day doing this.

They're doing a yeoman's job of trying to keep our city clear.

Yeah, my frustration was I I knew it was a crime.

I knew that there was code covering it, but I couldn't get anybody to enforce it to go out there to say, let's enforce it.

And that's where my frustration was building up is that we weren't getting any enforcement brought.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Well, communicating the fine and the ordinance helps.

In fact, uh Brandon Lane, the where uh sent you pictures, if you ride by there, which uh uh traveled by there this afternoon.

Uh three sites have uh looks like construction debris on them.

One site that has a sign posted saying the fine you'll be fined 250 up to 2500, there's nothing there.

And my frustration is uh, and I've requested this.

Why haven't we put signage just uh few hundred feet at the other sites?

But because that seems to have eliminated at least that one site from people dropping uh construction debris there.

And I think most of that debris uh is construction debris.

In fact, I sent you pictures of uh uh of uh uh two gentlemen in a pickup truck uh uh construction company and they pretty much waved at me for taking their picture.

Uh my fingers that they have up only one.

But I can't understand why the hesitation uh and post and signage there.

Uh you know it it works in that one location, just uh a few hundred feet up the road.

Looks like it would it would work there as well.

Yeah, we can absolutely do that.

One of the issues though is the way our ordinance is written, if you're a homeowner or just a resident in in our city, you can put construction debris out.

It's kind of difficult to tell whether it's your construction debris or somebody else's construction debris.

You know what I mean?

Well, there was a time I I don't know if we still do it.

If uh if a homeowner was having a construction company do some remodeling and they were putting it on the curb uh that uh we wouldn't pick it up that's right because the construction company that was their responsibility.

But how do we know the difference?

Well, we show up three days later to pick it up.

How do we know if it was you to remodel your bathroom or you hired Hugo's construction company to remodel your bathroom?

Well, we had a building.

We didn't.

And I'm sure I'm sure it was very inconsistent.

Yeah.

Um no, I I applaud you with uh uh fine let's uh communicate better that uh to everyone that uh if you do this you you're gonna have a fine and and community service uh because it really just makes our city look awful that we accept anything and we do not and and I I think I think some of these sites where no signage is there, if people have see people dumping there, I don't know how we can enforce it.

Uh if there's no signage preventing it.

We have ordinances that that you can't just because there's no sign to mean it's okay for you to I bet it makes it more difficult though when you go to court.

I'm not sure.

That ordinance is pretty decently well written.

I have the refer to but no it it seems like to me it would be more difficult.

Councilman Tillage, so you have the floor.

Thank you.

Um so all the recommendations that you you made to us, I support all except for the schedule.

Okay when I first got on council, we the city attempted that.

And I don't think it went over it very well with citizens across the the city and ended up switching it back to our regular day schedule um pickups.

Um so I I don't support that one.

Um but I do support the increasing of the enforcement as far as fines are concerned.

Um and also I know growing up uh you would see uh people putting out trash cans, let's say if the trash came on Monday, they weren't putting that trash cans out until Sunday because they knew they put it out on Friday, there was an inspection person coming around.

And people back then would actually leave fines on your on your front door, uh, which comes back down to a city enforcement aspect of it.

Trash is not supposed to be out more than 24 hours, well then we can cite you for that.

Um in addition, um it used to be large dumpsters would be placed if they would rotate throughout the summer months um in neighborhoods.

And so we knew every uh August the big dumpster was gonna be parked on Peachtree Lane, and people would take an opportunity of doing that and they would clean out whatever they had in their home uh during that week or two, and then about that week or two that dumpster would move to another part of Portsmouth.

Um so it's things like that I think that we could also do to help people not put things on the streets.

Um but as far as this is concerned, um this definitely needs to be fine and find other solutions as well.

But uh the sub the scheduling and then also the the fee for unscheduled, I can't I can't support that one.

Um that provide efficiencies in our process that is going to drive down the cost of doing that process.

I absolutely understand.

Okay, but I think that that's something maybe we can slowly creep in over time, but I don't I can't and that created uh uh really uh a storm of protest and and I I can't support that either.

Oh, so what you're telling me is my council got beat up, so they changed it.

Okay, so I would communication I think I I was still under the impression that we do schedule pickup.

I had that from two people.

So was I but there but there is a an online form because I've I've been scheduling bulk pickup.

I've done it like three times in the last year.

Well, I don't know, a handful of times in the last year.

So if there's a form So if I was just to leave a couch you didn't make it to the ordinance so was it well, why is there an online to your recollection?

I think what would determine if if I remember what was determined, you can still call the schedule if that's your pleasure, but we'll still do the route.

And if it's out there during the route, okay, it'll get picked up regardless.

Right.

Whether you schedule it or not.

Okay.

That was my understanding.

Is that sound about right?

Yeah, gotcha.

I don't know.

I left it miss that.

But I do remember the dumpster coming to town to the neighborhood, and I had forgotten that.

That got the feedback on it.

Yeah.

Spring cleaning type.

Okay.

So I I think I think we're good with with with bring back the recommendations that you all stated.

I mean, if council wants to make a consensus on some of the items, I'm fine with that.

But I do want to say this on behalf of council.

You know, we value our employees and the work that they do.

We got the best waste management department at the rose.

And I'm not just saying that I hear that from businesses, from residents.

We frequently get accolades for the work that our team does.

Um, so we want to support our team.

We want to make our city clean, whatever that looks like.

And I I can agree with Councilman Tillage.

I don't think we need to assess another fee on our folks in that regard.

There's ways to get to the goal.

You got a smart team, we got smart people.

Let's figure something out.

But we definitely got to put a shutdown on the illegal stuff.

And as high as we can charge them and give them some penalties, that's that's what probably needs to be done.

Okay.

Yep.

Okay.

We're good.

But we're not scared.

We're not scared to do the right thing.

All right, good deal.

Before I go, let me introduce to you uh Mr.

Herb Robinson, who's the uh Journal Services Director, Ms.

Hamos Taylor.

And uh the customer needs the assistant director.

Those are guys that if you call me, I call those guys.

No, 100%.

All right.

Well, my final thing is uh I think I'm supposed to do a recap.

You're done with waste manager.

Yes, done with waste management.

We have uh three public hearings this afternoon or this evening.

Um have two resolutions, 12 ordinances that we'll get you would be asked to consider.

Um couple of addresses on high street, a one-year extension for a uh use permit uh for 52 town houses and another one on Greenwood Drive, a one-year extension for 280 multifamily unions.

And then we have quite a few uh grants that we're gonna accept into our budget, one for Lexington apartments.

Uh I said that's not a grant, that is an appropriation of 1.2 million dollars uh for that uh senior housing development.

Correct.

We have grant for safe communities, 2.93 million for uh DCJS.

Uh we have a home program income that we have to recognize at home program is a program that we use around our city to uh help with down payment assistance with uh uh different people that can qualify for that, but um if some of it is a loan, and when that when they repay that money, we have to recognize it back in as income back into that program so we can actually do more with that same program.

All right, NG911 uh is getting 150,000 for equipment upgrades.

Uh uh Department of Social Services is getting a 100 100 donation uh for a food pantry.

Uh they're also getting a $500 donation for kinship support funds.

Uh kinship support is for uh child placement.

Uh you know, naturally we always try to place children back in with their families, but if they're extended families that uh can uh accommodate a placement, this uh these funds will help with that.

We also have uh a foster uh three eighty-seven thousand seven hundred and twenty dollars uh for foster care of a grant for foster care expenses.

There is a 155,000 state uh allocation for a 1.5% employee bonus for DSS.

Uh $30,000, $30,281 for opiar a opiate settlement for behavior health care.

$600,000 in state funds for implementation of the market system.

Uh from a Delta Sigma theta, and finally a twenty seven hundred dollar incentive to support family decision making uh in our DSS or family partnership program.

Those are things that you'll be considered or we will be will be considering this evening.

Thank you for your time, and I appreciate your allowing us to stand before you and give you the information.

Okay, so we do uh we've now in moving on with our agenda of the city city council.

Seeing none we'll move forward.

We are in need of a closed session.

So I would ask at this time, Vice Mayor.

I move to go into a closed meeting pursuant to Virginia Code subsection two point two dash thirty seven eleven A six for the purpose of discussing the investment of public funds where competition or bargaining is involved, where if made publicly initially the financial interests of the city would be adversely affected, specifically regarding the Southeastern public service authority.

Mr.

Hugo.

Yes.

Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are now in closed session.

I did that without your coming.

Only public business matters lawfully exempted from open meeting requirements from the Virginia Freedom of Information Act and two only such public business matters.

Good evening, citizens of Portsmouth, and welcome to our city council meeting for August 26, 2025.

Um, want to welcome those who are joining us here on the dais.

Um, first of all, I'd like to introduce our city manager, Mr.

Stephen Carter, also our city attorney, Ms.

Levonda Graham Williams, and our city clerk, Miss Deborah White.

I want to also acknowledge our city staff who is with us today in the audience uh working real hard on behalf of the citizens and acknowledge my colleagues here on City Council who are with us here tonight.

And with that, um, we will have an invocation by Pastor Jeff Whitaker with Transformation Church.

I would ask us all to please stand and following the invocation will be the Pledge of Allegiance.

Let us pray.

Almighty God, as we gather here tonight, we seek your presence and guidance in our discussions.

We thank you for the opportunity to serve our community and the responsibility that comes with it.

We sincerely ask that you grant us wisdom as we make decisions that impact the lives of our residents.

Help us to listen to one another with respect and understanding, fostering collaboration and unity amongst us.

May our actions reflect our commitment to the well-being of Portsmouth and all its citizens.

We ask for your blessings on our deliberations and on the city we love.

In your name we pray.

Amen.

Amen, Pastor.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you again, Pastor Whitaker.

Madam Clerk, would you please call the well excuse me?

Um had a lapse there for a minute.

I would ask all my colleagues to please note your attendance electronically.

Thank you, ma'am.

We have the minutes of a call meeting on July 22nd, 2025, and a regular meeting on July 22nd, 2025.

Do we have a motion and a second to approve the minutes?

Move for adoption.

Second.

Would you please vote electronically?

The minutes are adopted 7-0.

Thank you, ma'am.

And madam clerk, would you please read the city council rules for our speakers?

Yes, sir.

Ladies and gentlemen, city council rules require a limit of up to five minutes to speak.

As you approach the speaker's podium, you will notice a timer.

At the beginning of your five minutes, you will see a green light.

Four minutes into your remarks, you will notice a yellow light.

At the end of five minutes, you will see a red light.

A speaker who fails to observe the space rule decorum will be deemed out of order and not allowed to conclude his or her comments.

Thank you, madam clerk.

And moving on with our agenda.

Moving on with our agenda, we have come to the item of public hearing.

Item 25-226.

Madam Clerk, would you please read the public hearing resolution we are considering on this item?

Yes, sir.

Resolution granting the request of L.

Drake Stith for an honorary sign street name designation to designate a portion of Portsmouth Boulevard between Frederick Boulevard and Deep Creek Boulevard as Horace Savage Junior Way in recognition of Horace Savage Jr.

The future land use map of the Bill 1 Portsmouth Comprehensive Plan designates this property for transportation.

Planning Commission recommends approval.

The actual resolution reads a resolution designating an honorary street name of Horace Savage Jr.

Way for the portion of Portsmouth Boulevard located between Frederick Boulevard and D Creek Boulevard.

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Is the applicant present?

Yes.

Ma'am, if you would come forward, state your name and address, you will have 10 minutes.

Thank you so much.

Yes, ma'am.

Good evening, Mayor Glover, Vice Mayor Moody, City Manager Stephen Carter.

My name is Leah Drake Stith, and I'm the president of the IC Norcom Alumni Association and a proud member of the Tuxton Civic League's Hall of Fame.

It is truly an honor to stand before you this evening to request an honorary street sign in recognition of a man and a family whose contributions have greatly enriched the Truxton community and the city of Portsmouth.

The Tucker Savage family, a legacy of leadership in Truxton.

One of the most influential families in Truxton's history is the Tucker Savage family.

As one of the original 42 homeowners in Truxton, they lived in the first block of Key Road and helped shape the foundation of our community.

Their contributions, contributions remain an enduring part of our heritage.

Mr.

Thomas Tucker, founder of the Truxton Masonic Lodge, number 199 in the Truxton Ever Ready chapter of the Eastern Stars, a major leader in the Truxton Civic League, a religious and fraternal affairs, and the operations of the Truxton School when the community recruited and paid its own teachers prior to annexation into Portsmouth.

Mr.

Tucker served on the Truxton Town Council and was recognized as the unofficial mayor of Truxton.

Thomasine Savage Warmack, first black person to earn a master's degree in psychiatric nursing from Richmond Professional Institute, Virginia Commonwealth University.

Bessie Tucker Savage, homemaker, teacher at the Truxton School, and later at IC Norcom High School.

Mr.

Horace Savage Sr., founder of the Eureka Social and Literary Club, which remains active today.

Active in the Truxton Garden Club, the Choral Group and Players Guild.

Horace Savage Jr., Coach Savage, grew up at 58 Key Road later, Gospert Road, now 2313 Portsmouth Boulevard.

Attended Truxton School and IC Norcom High School.

He served three years in the U.S.

Army and 37 years in the Portsmouth Public School System.

He taught 19 years at IC Norcom High School, where he coached the track team to a state championship in 1959 and the football team to a district championship and state runner-up in 1967.

He's the first president of the Portsmouth Education Association, the first black assistant principal at Harry Hunt Junior High, later signed to Wildrow Wilson High, named Assistant Superintendent for General Services in 1976, and assistant superintendent to superintendent for staff development and personnel in 1980.

His community contributions.

He led the campaign to refurbish and enlarge the Effingham Street YMCA.

The first black president of the Torch Club and the Kwanis Club.

President of Places and Programs for Children, first black leader of the Portsmouth Community Concert Association, Board Member of the Salvation Army, Lifetime Member of the Historic Truxton Civic League, elected into the Truxton Civic League Hall of Fame in 2008.

Host and spokesperson of annual banquets preserving and sharing the Truxton history for over 20 years.

In 2025, the Truxton community proudly established the Horace Savage Junior Family Ancestry Award in his honor at 100 years of age.

Coach Savage remains a living testament and one who in which we have immense pride that we I it gives me great pride to stand before you today to ask you to name a portion of Portsmouth Boulevard, a place where his family residence still resides in recognition of all that he and the Tucker Savage family have given to Truxton and to Portsmouth.

And I'm happy to have with me today his daughter Alexis Savage, uh Miss Ardonia Howard from the IC Norcom Alumni Association, Mr.

Lewis Taylor from the Norcom Hall of Fame, and Dr.

Campbell, who's from St.

James Church.

And I hope that you will honor this request.

Thank you all so very much.

Thank you, Ms.

Stuff.

Are there any questions for Ms.

Sith for my colleagues?

Ma'am, thank you.

Thank you so very much.

And thank you for the presentation.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is a public hearing.

If you wish to speak, come forward and speak on this public hearing item.

You're not required to have signed up.

So if you want to come and speak on this specific item, come forward, state your name and address, and you will have five minutes.

Seeing none, this public hearing is closed.

Council members, we are in need of a motion and a second move adoption.

Second.

Is there any additional discussion on this item?

Seeing none, please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 7-0.

Thank you.

The next public hearing item, item B, UP-25-01.

And Madam Clerk, would you please read the public hearing resolution we are considering for this item?

Yes, sir.

A resolution granting the request of coastal developed Virginia developers for a use permit for the development of 17 townhouse units on approximately 1.7 acres located at 1200 Hodges Ferry Road and the urban residential zoning district.

The future land use map of the Bill 1 Portsmouth comprehensive plan designates this property for institutional public uses.

Planning commission recommends approval with conditions.

The resolution reads a resolution granting a use permit UP 2501 to coastal Virginia developers to construct a total of not to exceed 17 townhouse units on approximately 1.7 acres of the property heaven, an address of seven 1200 Hodges Ferry Road.

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Is the applicant present?

Sir, if you would state your name and address, you will have five minutes.

I mean 10 minutes, excuse me.

Thank you, Mayor Glover.

Uh, members of City Council, City Staff, my name is Grady Palmer.

My business address is 222 Central Park Avenue, uh Virginia Beach.

I'm here tonight on behalf of the applicant, Coastal Virginia Developers, uh, Mr.

Bob Arnett, uh, Mr.

Matt Howard, Mr.

Billy Mann, uh Portsmouth-based company uh here tonight requesting your approval.

I want to thank the staff first of all for the recommendation for approval, and I thank the planning commission for their recommendation for approval.

Uh this is a proposal to construct 17 townhouse units.

It's conditional use permit.

The underlying zoning uh allows residential uh to be developed uh in the zoning district, uh, but it townhouses require a conditional use permit.

So that's what we're requesting tonight is the approval of that conditional use permit to construct 17 for sale townhouse units.

And I noted on your agenda uh interesting that you're considering a uh an adoption of an ordinance uh from the home investment partnership program, and I think that's a great program that Portsmouth uh utilizes, and this this would be a candidate uh for additional uh investment uh uh opportunities for people looking to uh uh acquire uh homes and getting down payment assistance.

So that that's an interesting note that I just wanted to note uh for the record.

Uh you've got several Portsmouth has several policies uh that have been adopted to encourage uh what we're proposing and what we're proposing falls into affordable housing, but it really is that missing middle uh that we really struggle with as an industry uh as an industry.

I think we do a good job uh at uh at building uh uh low-income housing.

We do a good job of building housing that costs a lot, but we don't do a good job of delivering missing middle type middle middle income type units, and this is what this would um this would provide.

So these units would uh sell for between 290,000 uh and 325,000 would be approximately 70 1700 square feet.

Uh so it would serve uh those uh those middle income buyers uh in Portsmouth.

So as we've said, the the property is currently zoned residential.

Uh we think of at least uh probably approximately six eight single family homes could be built with no public review, uh no public discussion.

So uh we think that the layout would would be here.

You can see this is a portion of Central Baptist Church, some excess land that the church has.

Uh what we're proposing is uh traditional neighborhood design.

So the the townhouse style units uh would be pushed up onto the street, kind of creating a streetscape, a nice streetscape, and you can kind of see there, all the parking would be uh to the rear of the unit, so it would protect the streetscape along Logan along Hodges Ferry Road.

Uh so we've we've delivered, we believe a very high quality project that proffers uh that are for uh for your consideration tonight, have a lot of high-end design elements uh that would control into perpetuity.

Um so it would be managed by an HOA, so any future homeowners, you know, all those protections uh and design criteria uh would carry on.

So we did a uh a few studies uh on this.

So normally with conditional use permits, you don't do uh traffic impact analysis or find it fiscal impact analysis, but we wanted to do that to assure the public that that converting the taking this property you know from the church, which is an untaxed uh property, you know, would be a positive for the city of Portsmouth uh for tax revenue.

But also we understand we understand that you know Hodges Ferry Road is uh is a cut through you know from 264 to Western branch and Portsmouth Boulevard.

So we know traffic is a concern uh out there, and so we did it, we had our traffic engineer look at it.

This uh proposal would generate on average uh seven vehicles uh in the morning uh rush hour and nine vehicles, uh average vehicles during the in the evening rush.

Um so we know that's it's not a gonna contribute to a lot of um traffic is uh a lot more traffic than that that that happens in the in the morning in the r in the evening rush.

But one of the things that we're we're looking to do, and we want the public to know we've agreed uh to apply to the city for permission to uh to uh install speed tables uh throughout the corridor on I believe it's leonard, I think is is what we're what we've discussed.

And so you know, on another effort we're trying to work uh with the community, understanding that there are concerns uh out there, and that would be paid for by private dollars installed uh by by the developers if approved.

Um so that is something in addition to what is in your package that we are working towards.

And so um with that, I I want to ask for your approval uh tonight.

I'm here for any questions, uh, as well as the development team.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

And could you please come back because I'm getting ready to ask my colleagues if they have any questions, so that way you won't have to make those additional steps.

Councilman Dotson, sir, you have the floor.

So in the in the previous hearings that we had on this in uh I believe it was zoning, we talked about a couple of issues with this.

And one is that that is a cut through area, and that there your residents are gonna have to put up with some high speed traffic, not of your fault, but of the design of the streets here and the speed bumps are the solution you came up with because we talked about another solution, the city putting up a stop sign for a different direction or a one-way in there.

Did was the speed bumps the solution that seemed the best?

Well, it's a solution that we can contribute.

Um that we felt like we could contribute to the community.

So I mean, we we there may have been some discussions about a stop sign.

We're certainly whatever the city would see as a value add, we're certainly willing to do that.

If uh if if it's not speed tables, if it's a stop sign, we're certainly willing to do that.

Oh no, I just wanted to know to make your residents happy, not as a condition on your residence, but the city to facilitate the happiness of your residents.

I think there are some traffic problems that we should address with this cut through area that we have there.

And I I think I don't know if Mr.

Carter, you're aware of that.

Okay, we had in the preliminary hearings and I can't remember which corner it was, but there was a corner there where people do a high speed cut through in this neighborhood uh there that we wanted to uh change the traffic pattern there somewhat, and I don't know that the solution has been generated yet.

But I think it would facilitate this development for us to take our our part in the responsibility as a city.

The second question that I had in the preliminary hearings was the taxes, and y'all were going to address the uh back taxes because it was a church property that had not paid taxes in some instances.

There is a back tax to be paid.

Has that legal was going to address that too with us?

So the pastors here tonight, he he's he's he's able to speak to that, but whatever taxes are owed, uh those taxes will be paid.

So if the city is assesses a rollback on the church.

I want to make sure the city did its job to tell you whether those were.

Yeah, I I have not heard that there will be a rollback assessed, but certainly if there is, it will be paid.

Okay.

I'd like to ask if the city has investigated that.

Is there a rollback on that or not?

I I don't know.

But we'd ask for the preliminary hearing that that be presented tonight.

Sir, that's that's not a condition that's a part of this this permit.

Um so that that's really not really relevant to this this application.

We can discuss it later.

Thank you, sir.

Okay, we can discuss it later.

Um, you have the floor.

Yeah, thanks, Mr.

Mayor.

So uh to Councilman Dotson's point around traffic.

Uh I also sat in the planning commission discussion.

Uh there were several neighbor neighbors that got up and spoke to existing traffic issues that have nothing to do with this construction.

So I want to compliment you for listening to the concerns of the neighbors for taking uh action on your own to to address those concerns.

Um the traffic study that you did that wasn't required, and now the offer to install uh uh speed tables uh I I think will not only mitigate the uh really nominal traffic change that that that your development uh imposes, but but will address traffic conditions uh such as they are right now, even uh uh before uh you all even put a shovel to the ground.

So thank you.

Councilman uh Vicemair Moody, sure you have the floor.

Thank you, Mayor.

Actually, uh Councilman Hugel uh uh addressed what I was gonna speak of.

Uh I think to describe that as a high speed uh cut through is uh a little uh hyperbole.

Uh that that cut through there has been for a number of years, and the developer on his own is uh gonna help uh address some of the uh problems.

Thank you.

Councilwoman Thomas, ma'am, you have the floor.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, thank you, ma'am.

Attorney Palmer.

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is a public hearing.

If you wish to come and speak on this public hearing item, you are not required to have signed up to speak.

However, if you do come and speak, I need your name, address, and you will have five minutes.

City council, thank you.

My name is Steve Greenby.

I'm the pastor at Central Baptist Church.

And I just wanted to let you know that I've been in talks with uh Bob Arnett and his team for a while now.

Our whole leadership team has, and as a church, we uh we unanimously approved uh this sale.

We're we're excited to go forward.

We're uh we're thankful for the opportunity to see middle income homes right next door to us that we have the opportunity to uh to minister to them, and um, and also the income that it will provide for us to do some updates for our building and also with the uh the Ford plans to to plant another church.

So that that's our plans behind the building, say or the sale of the land, and um anyway.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you, sir.

Once again, this is a public hearing.

If you wish to come and speak on this item, you can come forward, state your name and address, and you will have five minutes.

Uh Mr.

Mayor and City Councilman.

Um my name is Benjamin Keeling.

I live at 215 Mayflower Road, which is um on the left side of the um of the chart there.

Um I'm coming forward just as a resident in the area to indicate that um uh Mr.

Arnett uh has gone out of his way to uh meet with um residents.

Um I was at the uh planning commission uh meeting here.

Um he met with us right afterwards, and then we set up another another meeting to deal with and talk about uh concerns that um that the residents um uh uh had and Mr.

Arnett has uh done as has said that he would definitely deal with the issues, help to resolve those issues, uh, and uh even to go further in and and consider speed bumps uh on Mayflower.

Um I'm I'm on that part of it where uh it's a it's a straightaway, and so um yeah, there's a lot of speeding that that does go on, so it's a real concern for my wife and I in that regard.

But just wanted to uh put that on the record.

Thank you, sir.

This is a public hearing.

If you wish to come and speak on this public hearing item, state your name and address, you will have five minutes.

Hi, my name is Downhouse.

I'm at one one for Gillis Road.

I didn't plan prepared tonight, but I saw the the illustration, and the illustration shows on the top right corner, there's a site triangle.

Um, and it and it has four it has two other drives, and then one on the back side that's got trees beside it, and um section 40.2304 landscaping and screening, citation three landscape buffers that says eight site triangles, no fence berm, wall, or other landscaping features may exceed 36 inches above grade within any site triangle for street, alleys, or driveways.

So anywhere that's a driveway, you can't have anything within a 30-foot issue of that because that's what city code is.

That's what a site triangle is, is 30 feet.

And additionally, since this is a multi-family dwelling, okay, then the code for that says it has to have sidewalks on the frontage of the properties, and I don't see the sidewalks on there.

So but like I said, I didn't come prepared with that, or because I could give you the citation.

I just saw it up there, and I was like, okay, it's nice, but it's it's missing some some things that need to be in there.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

This is a public hearing.

If you wish to come and speak on this item, please come forward, state your name and address.

You will have five minutes.

Seeing none, this public hearing is closed.

Council members, we are in need of a motion and a second.

Move adoption.

Second.

Is there any discussion on this item?

Seeing none, please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 70.

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

And our next item, item C 25-01.

And Madam Clerk, would you please read the ordinance we are considering for this item?

Yes, sir, and ornaments granting the proposal to amend and reenact city code chapter 40.2 zoning ordinance, sections 40.2-217, use specific standards, and 40.2-533 use permits, and division five of Article 5 enforcement for the purpose of modifying one the regulations applicable to event space, bank house, entertainment establishments, and similar uses, and to the enforcement authority of the zoning administrator.

Related changes to additional sections of the zoning ordinance may be discussed at a put at the public hearing.

Planning commission recommends approval.

Thank you, ma'am.

And I don't believe that we we don't have an applicant for this one.

We have an applicant.

The city is the applicant, correct?

So we do have registered speakers for this item.

Our first registered speaker is Mr.

David House.

Sir, if you would come forward and state your name and address, you will have five minutes.

I'm David House.

I live in the Simonsdale District of Portsmouth.

Mayor, Vice Mayor, City Council, City Manager.

So in the ordinance, I like to talk about the off-street parking.

Um I've highlighted in the in the section here.

So it says if all street parking, if the off-street parking requirement for an establishment under this ordinance is to be satisfied by using off-street parking areas not located on the same parcel as the use, then a shared parking agreement or lease agreement must be submitted for review and approval as to form by the city attorney.

And it also talks about agreement with the specific location, number of spaces, duration of use, and the hours of uh availability.

And also talks about all-street parking areas must be located within 800 feet walking distance of the proposed entertainment establishment.

So my question is so does all-street parking identify uh the application or identify the local uh the location of the parking.

So the new code does not address any on-street parking issues that will occur in the residential districts.

Can adjacent businesses change uh businesses charge you a fee to utilize off-street parking?

Does parking uh does event parking require a use permit for valet VIP or general parking?

If you go to the back section, I've highlighted a property on Chihuan Drive, this lease's restaurant and lounge.

So I've given you some pictorials of during the day, and in the bottom corner, I says this building is used at night for pay parking.

If you go to the next sheet, I show you the area that's a vacant lot, and then I show you the the drive and I show you across the street.

There's a shopping center that's called Chihuahuan Shops, and there's a resident there at 120 Chihuahu Drive that's called for you to love and is an event center.

So we we can add this address if you if you scroll to the next page, um, it shows the parking that's at the the restaurant and it shows that 109 and 105 Chihuahu Drive have paid parking that they're charging residents to pay.

And then if you go to the next page, it shows you where they have cones out, and it shows that parking is five dollars and its VIP is ten dollars, and it shows the paid parking at the establishment at 109 and 107, and it shows then across the street, it shows five dollar parking in the Chihuahuan shops.

So the owner, the resident at 120 Chihuahuan Drive, rents air a parking, I mean it rents a building in that property.

So he has commandeered that parking lot and is charging people five dollars to park in the lot that y'all have already established with use permits and parking regulations.

So my question is is it is it legal for them to charge um parking VIP parking on property that that's business property.

So in your in your um in your pictorial on the second page, you've uh allocated private clubs under the table use.

So in the private clubs, you've allowed uh one parking place for 200 square feet of use.

So you've added private clubs under the section 40.2-301, which is under institutions.

The current code requires one parking place for 500 square feet of feasible and usable space for civic social fraternal clubs and lodges.

So what you've done, so for example, if you had 1500 square feet at 500 square feet, you're allowed 50 parking places.

So you've reduced that that footprint to 200, and now they're allowed um 75 parking places.

So if you look under the under the parking standards code for institutions, it says for civic, social and fraternal clubs and lodges, 500 square feet.

But the new code is authorizing um private clubs to have 200 square feet, which like I said is doubling their parking places, which means double the the footprint of vehicles and everything else in the area.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, sir.

And Mr.

Carter, you have the floor, sir.

Thank you, Mayor.

Dr.

Russell, if you uh can address some of these things, uh it was a lot to unpack there, but uh do you want a copy of this?

That would help you can have this copy if you're if you come forth.

No you can address it from the next so you can have a seat.

Okay, take take your time to digest that a minute before you okay.

Good evening, everyone.

Um listening to Mr.

House's comments.

Let me focus on um two areas.

So let's start with the parking standard that's proposed in the ordinance.

And so under the use specific standards that are proposed, paragraph um it's double A, and I'm gonna read it verbatim.

It states if the off-street parking requirement for the establishment under this zoning ordinance is to be satisfied by utilizing off-street parking areas not located on the same parcel as the use, then a shared parking agreement or lease agreement must be submitted for review and approval as to form by the city attorney.

The shared parking agreement must specify the location, the number of spaces, duration of use, and hours of availability, and so that evaluation would take place as a part of vetting the review process, so that would occur through the conditional use permit process.

And so I can share with you when Mr.

House started speaking of a property on Shawan that I'm not familiar with, but I I'll take him for his word that it's an event space, and it is likely one that is already permitted and in existence.

Um then he shared information about parking and and um VIP and um valet parking opportunities.

Well, what he's describing is exactly what this provision in the draft ordinance is trying to address and providing parameters and standards around that.

And so if a potential vendor for a new event space or entertainment venue came forward and they did not have sufficient parking based on the standard and the capacity of the of a existing structure, then the language provides an opportunity for that applicant to meet their parking uh requirement by demonstrating that they have a formal agreement with an adjacent property owner.

And what that does is it it creates an opportunity to address parking that's not on street parking that spills over into other neighboring residential areas or um neighboring commercial properties without permission.

So that um that's the rationale for it.

Mr.

House also spoke about the parking standard um that's outlined.

It's in um table 40.2 minimum off-street parking standards, and he talks about he spoke to the fact that we're doubling that standard.

And so now I fully understand Mr.

Carter's uh rationale for wanting an in-depth conversation about these these proposed provisions yesterday, a whole day before we were asking the council to act on this, and so help me if if I miss something, but the private club language is new, it is brand new, and we are attempting in the draft ordinance to differentiate private clubs from civic social and fraternal clubs, and because it is a new for Portsmouth and the Portsmouth ordinance, it is it's it's a new use.

We tied it to a definition, and we included a parking standard for that specific use.

And so his language suggests that you know we're we're departing from our existing uh ordinance requirements for parking.

No, we're not.

We're adding a standard for private clubs as we are adding a new use.

So I hope I got it all.

Do I get it all?

Those are okay.

Thank you, ma'am.

Yes, very good.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Mr.

Stephen Carroll.

Okay.

Um Councilman Hugo, sir, you have the floor.

Yeah, thanks, Mr.

Mayor.

Dr.

Russell.

Uh hold on, hold on, Mr.

Carroll.

Hold on, please.

I think the councilman has a question for Dr.

Russell.

Yeah, my apologies.

Yeah, thank you.

Uh, and so this is either to the manager or Dr.

Russell.

So acknowledging that the specifics that Mr.

House provided is for uh a currently approved uh business, and therefore our new rules, uh the this business presumably is grandfathered from those rules, but the the fact remains that there's paid parking going on, and so whether it's the new rules or the old rules, I think the question still remains: does our code allow that?

Does the person who is charging for parking need a business license or uh you know if so?

Hold the thought.

So madam attorney is asked for the floor, so I'm gonna give her the floor at this time.

I'm so I think we're confusing.

We're getting into we're getting into a line of questioning that's not relevant to this particular ordinance that we're dealing with today in its entirety.

So I'm gonna let them the attorney deal with that question.

I do not want to stifle uh council's questions with respect to what's been presented by the citizen, but I do need to remind you that we're limited to what's relevant before council for this public hearing.

There has been an issue brought up on a property that is not before council on an issue that is not before council, and so I would ask that we would table that discussion, um, take note of the concern posed and research that appropriately and do a report back, but we cannot engage in that with this public hearing because it is not relevant to the issue before if you thank you.

That's exactly where I was going.

We have an issue.

I'm not looking for an answer, just a commitment that we got some homework to do on this other issue.

Yes, thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Councilwoman Thomas Ma'am, you have the floor.

Yes, thank you, Mayor.

Um, Dr.

Russell, before you sit down, um, I know we have several speakers coming to speak on this this ordinance.

One thing that kind of stuck out, and you just touched on it is that private clubs the new definition in this ordinance, and there is a separate designation for entertainment establishments.

Correct, right?

So I just want to make sure that just based on the example of how we're defining private club versus entertainment establishments, that that might be something we want to reiterate as we've been doing this discussion yesterday and today about the the distinction between the two.

So I just wanted to throw that out there in case that might be helpful as we continue the discussions for the next speakers that might come along.

The difference between private club entertainment establishments.

Thank you.

Maybe you have the floor.

Okay.

So councilwoman Thomas, the planning commission public hearing for the proposed ordinance amendments.

Commissioners were concerned about the impact of the proposed ordinance language to fraternal, social and civic organizations.

More specifically, that these organizations often have activities that are very similar to the event centers, and they generate revenue for these organizations that are civic minded and nonprofit in nature.

And the commissioners and I believe also the council agreed that we did not want to make the restriction so burdensome for that use that it took away a lot of their livelihood.

And so staff discussed how what were the opportunities to resolve that as a concern, and it is to separate out what is uh a private club from a private from a um civic social or fraternal organization.

And so I'd like to read them verbatim.

I think that might be helpful.

So an entertainment establishment.

You want me to read that one too?

Is that what you're asking?

I just wanted to know if you could quickly kind of summarize the difference because you know we use we interchange the word club and entertainment establishment, and in the example provided based on what excuse excuse me, excuse me, ma'am.

Hold on.

Before we we engage, because we've had an in-depth discussion about these items yesterday.

Before we re-engage in that whole discussion again, I need the manager to make clear all of the questions really need to be directed to the manager, but the manager needs to approach the staff about any question or concern.

I think it's important to follow this process because it continues as we continue to engage, it will not only extend the time that we're dealing with this issue, but it introduces more confusion.

So, Mr.

Manager, please, maybe thank you.

Okay, yes, uh, Dr.

Russell, thank you for your input on this, and I really appreciate it your uh willingness and your ability to answer the questions that we're posed to you.

What I'd like to actually do though is and we had a really robust discussion on this last night.

What we're really trying to do is pre give the citizens an opportunity to engage in a way that they didn't have an opportunity to last night.

However, the the process should not re-engage that full conversation again last night.

All the information about what is actually there, the definitions that she's about to read or was about to read, I'm gonna ask you not to read those because that information is published.

If the if there's a question about that, we need to answer, absolutely, but let's not just read definitions back into the record, okay.

Can I follow up with that then, sir?

Um loud and clear hear you.

I where I was going was with with the prior speakers' comments and the examples used.

The example provided, I thought fell more into the entertainment establishment, and I know we were talking code around private club parking.

So because of that comment, I thought there was maybe some overlap or confusion about our distinction between private club and entertainment um establishments.

I don't want to rehash the long conversations we had yesterday, but I did want to point out clarity in the example that you provided to council, um, even with the examples that those addresses that based on the new definitions that that's not really a private club, and that was the example used for the parking situation.

But I don't want to hold up more time, I just wanted to point that out.

Thank you.

Yeah, go ahead.

Um, Madam Attorney, you have the floor.

Thank you, council, for the opportunity to to sort of jump in and and maybe create some clarity for uh the audience here.

The entertainment establishment is the definition, it always has been.

It is the it is the thing that we've been providing use permits for all along.

The only new distinction is a private club, is a new defining entity, and that was made public to you all in the documentation you have that came out with the agenda.

Um, and it is it is something separate and apart from civic and social fraternal clubs and lodges.

So I think that's the distinction between the three.

That's the quickest way to summarize it, and I think that gets the distinction that there are three separate entities, all of which have separate and distinct use standards allowable under the zoning code.

Thank you.

Thank you, ma'am, and Dr.

Russell.

Thank you, ma'am.

Thank you.

Mr.

Carroll, sir.

Please come forward, state your name and address.

You will have five minutes.

Steve Carroll and I am a resident of Portsmouth.

Uh good evening, Mayor, members of council.

Um I can't be for or against this.

I'm assuming, first of all, this is a preamble to three other agenda items to follow.

And I'm also hopefully assuming that this is supposed to make things better because it is very obvious that we have a problem in the city with these types of establishments, or we wouldn't be here tonight.

We wouldn't be addressing this, would we?

What is the penalty for not adhering to the improvements to these standards?

Where are the teeth?

Because without teeth, quite frankly, this agenda item is not worth the paper it's printed on.

And that's a problem.

Now I came here with several different things on my mind, and they were all intertwined and related to this one agenda item.

And that is the city's ability and commitment to enforce code, and it goes far and wide.

As a citizen, as a husband, as a civic league president, as a citizen of Portsmouth.

Noise.

Rowdy behavior, illegal activity, violence.

That's what concerns me.

And that's what ought to be the focus here.

This should be an improvement over a situation that we have a problem with.

And I'm going to address some things later on, uh, non-agenda that come back to this.

Um these things, these types of venues attract problems to the city.

We've got enough problems without asking for them, and we need to get a handle on them, and we need to get a tight rein on it, and we need to do it now.

So I can't say I'm for or against it.

I'm for it if it has teeth.

If there is clear commitment from this city that we have the ability to enforce and the commitment to enforce, otherwise, we're spinning our wheels here.

That's what I want to hear.

Where is the uh enforcement?

What is the penalty for not adhering to this?

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

And Councilman Dotson, you have the floor.

Mr.

Carroll, that has been a topic of that we've had in every discussion that we've had is is we have a problem with enforcement, and our city manager is fully aware of it, and we talk about it almost every every meeting.

Um, and we're looking for solutions, and thank you, thank you, thank you for emphasizing the need for it.

Vice Mayor Moody, sir.

You have the floor.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh Mr.

Carroll ask uh where the teeth is uh in these changes, and I'm gonna call upon the uh our city attorney.

I think she's in a better position to uh explain what the uh enforcement aspect is Madam Attorney, yes.

Um you have the floor, ma'am.

Thank you, thank you for that.

Uh I I didn't hear what your your statement was, but I can tell you that in our new zoning, there is a section that talks about the ability for the city to um revoke uh to address the revocation of the use permit previously provided.

It also provides for a new avenue uh where the zoning administrator may revoke the occupancy license for those who do not have a use permit.

That is a that isn't uh a more swift and aggressive ability that we did not have before.

Moreover, in our legislative packet that's coming up and being worked through now because January is around the corner, we will be pursuing the ability for use permits to expire, thereby requiring everyone who receives access to the use permit process to be subject to any changes in the future.

Those things in combination with what we already have on the books being enforced will provide all the adequate levels of um prosecution uh accountability and safety that we're looking for, and it would be similarly situated uh like we have in other our other cities in the tidewater area.

Thank you, madam attorney.

Thank you, ma'am.

And our next speaker is Mr.

Daniel House.

Mr.

House, if you would come forward, state your name and address, you will have five minutes.

I'm Daniel House, I live in the city of Portsmouth.

So this this um I've read the information on it, I'll listen to all the dialogue.

There the there's issues with this that are different from any other entertainment activities that you're allowing off site off premises parking to another facility.

But the problem with that is that you've got people traveling 800 feet or more or within 800 feet to another facility, and we will bring it up in this case.

So, what happens if that facility charges for parking?

Okay.

Now that is a use permit for valet that would have to be a use permit for that property.

So you can't say that, oh, we're gonna get an agreement that's a form that has to be reviewed by the city attorney to say we have a permit in place.

The the way that the current code is being written is that you have to peruse the property of the side properties to make sure there's no trash and stuff after that after the event.

But there's nothing about the other property to make sure that people that transfers or carry drinks, don't say it's not gonna happen because it is, or whatever, down to the other place, and they're gonna drop them in the parking lot, okay?

Or what about security?

You require security at the event, but you don't have any security or cameras at the off-site parking.

Or security walking down to the other place.

Nothing whatsoever.

And I understand that that you say zoning is going to be in charge of this.

Let me tell you, I've got stuff that's been before zoning for almost a year in their box under C click fix, and they've done nothing.

Nothing.

They won't respond to my responses in there.

They go on.

So don't I mean I understand that that you're putting the whole onus on zone on the zoning administrator, but he's one person, okay?

And you don't have it, he doesn't have enough staff to facilitate what he's doing.

Sir, sir, excuse me.

Yes.

This use permit is specific to the items ordinance.

This is not about the zoning administrator.

I need you, sir.

Okay.

Hold the thought.

I need you to stay on topic.

Well, it's it's right here in your third number two.

It says, hold on, that Sir, sir, this is not a debate.

I'm going to go.

No, no, I'm just saying it says the enforcement authority of the zoning administrator.

Okay.

So that was that's what I've done.

But you're entering in other discussions.

I'm not going to go back to the case.

Okay, so you know what I mean.

I need you to specifically I shouldn't have brought back what what I personally hadn't been involved with it.

That is correct.

That's not for the discussion.

I apologize for that.

Thank you.

But I'm just saying, you don't have the staff, okay.

What happens if there's an og over occupancy because you brought in shuttles?

You've got nobody here at the city at night to enforce that, okay?

Because the pol you called the police department and they're inundated.

You can't and you can't call the farm marshal because they're inundated, helping with with the police.

So you got nobody to enforce it at night, other than somebody calling the next day and say, Did you see what happened?

And they're like, Yep, but we couldn't do nothing about it.

Okay?

And then, well, you gotta wait till we see it.

That's what that's so, you know, that unless the city can see it themselves, they can't act on it.

Sir, yeah.

I hear your position.

Okay.

Much of what you're saying is certainly appropriate, perhaps, but it's hypothetical.

And we are not dealing in hypotheticals in this discussion.

Okay.

What we what we are dealing in is what deals with the ordinance.

Sir, what is proposed in the ordinance?

It's not a debating situation.

I need you to stay on topic, and once you're done, we'll ask you to take your seat.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

Thanks.

But like I said, the issues that I brought is you don't have any anything in there to peruse the other properties that's going to allow for the off-site parking.

Okay.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Our next speaker will be Mr.

Coleman Young.

Sir, if you would come forward, state your name and address, you will have five minutes good evening.

My name's Coleman Young.

I'm at um 603 Denwee Street.

Um I mean recognition to the mayor, the vice mayor, and the members of council.

Um I come before you.

Um I realize that there's a problem here.

You're trying to balance safety safety with having a conductive atmosphere of businesses, especially since they listening to the work session last last night and the uh promise of a big successful future for the city.

Um you know, unfortunately, we have a what happened in my opinion is you had a bad bad actor at in the city, and you know, one solution that to this, as well as other suggestions or recommendations that have come up, is just the fact of a patrol of a police.

If there's anticipation of some problem, a police could always go into a facility to make their presence known, that would put a damper on any uh possible thoughts or actions that they may take.

Um two issues with um uh that with the ordinance that I that uh that I want to bring to attention.

One is the the pro um not allowing promoters or any outside group to be able to uh uh conduct business.

You know, my my thinking is look, you what you're doing, you're putting the honest and the burden on the uh restaurant owner.

He's got the responsibility of hiring staff, um producing food, having an atmosphere going in.

Now, if he wants to bring in additional business, you're putting the honest on him to have a social media, to do the publicity, to bring a group in.

Now, why not have a promoter?

You know, so like you know, a person that let's say it's a disc jockey, they can put the word out.

I'm gonna be in such and such a place at such a time and come in.

Now, uh, and the others outside uh group, why not have you know their situations you have an outside promoter come in and they they they're able to bring people in?

You're talking about a business.

Now, this could easily be handled uh or be controlled by additional staff or security.

And the second point is the authority given to the zoning administrator.

Now I'm not saying that there isn't a need for teeth in this legislation.

I mean this ordinance.

Uh it needs to be that.

What I'm concerned about is the authority or the power that's given to the zoning administrator.

Um I talked to Mr.

Uh Mr.

Brown today and asked him now if if a situation comes, if the conditions are uh if a restaurant or a business has a disorderly conduct, uh fighting or or uh uh alcohol issue that and they they a notice is given to them, that administrator has the authority to shut them down right then and there.

Now what if if uh this incident happened one day after the uh uh the zoning board met, that's 30 days before he's gonna be able to go in.

Now, when you go in and in cease and desist or shut down, it you know, what happens to that owner of that business?

You know, he's not able to go to his employees, say I hereby have the authority to cease to dissist paying you.

I don't have the authority or to be able to not pay the vendors or not to pay the utilities or not pay the mortgage.

But my thought is it once you give a notice, allow him to continue to operate.

He's got his day of reckoning a day if he has to go before a hearing, and the fact to be reviewed.

You know, if you have a speeding ticket, the police officer doesn't arrest you, it doesn't compound the car in you know, and take your driver's license.

Yeah, if I'm arrested for a crime, I I'm not put in jail.

I mean, I am detained, but I have an opportunity of bail.

What you're doing, you're restricting the the owners of these businesses.

Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you, sir.

Our next speaker is Mr.

Vincent Majors.

Mr.

Majors, if you would come forward, state your name and address.

You will have five minutes.

Mr.

Mayor Council, how's everybody doing?

My name's Vincent Majors.

Uh I'm a resident of the uh New Afton Greens area in Portsmouth.

And I know I only have five minutes, it's just that me and one of my neighbors seen this on the news, and so we rushed up here.

So forgive me if I ain't fully prepared.

But what I'm here to say to you all today is is that we stay in a neighborhood of 200 new homes.

Three to half million dollars.

And we live in fear.

Find out what works.

200 new homes.

We are terrified.

Just Thursday night.

Now, y'all got these ordinances that you're setting up to allow these clubs to close at 12 30 and 1 and all of these times.

But just Thursday night, one o'clock, 20 shots got fired behind our houses.

Six hitting homes.

So my neighbors' homes have been shot up.

The house right across the street from me.

Two shots in each bedroom.

One shot in the kitchen, right at the sink.

Fences shot up.

I'm just here today saying we need help.

I don't need to hear about how they're trying to make it better for their parking and all of these things, and which club is to blame.

I know that they were leaving that club that night, which is directly behind our homes.

These clubs were not here before these homes was built.

I've been living in the 7-5 all my life.

Two of the five clubs have recently opened within a year.

One is the only one that's been here at least five years, and then the other two, but less than three.

Well, a six club wants to open up in the same shopping center.

Now, whether y'all calling them entertainment centers and clubs and all of that, I don't care what you call them.

Me having to be told that my child goes to sleep when the club closes.

Really?

Our children sleeping at school because the club used to stay open to 12 o'clock.

My child can't go to sleep because he's singing the song that he heard at the club.

I stay right at 800 yards away from that club.

800 yards, not a quarter mile, right at a half mile.

I'm listening to club music like it's in my living room.

And I I don't know exactly what needs to occur or who needs to be taught to, but I do know that I voted for you all for situations like this.

When I'm in trouble, I'm coming to you all now.

This how you're gonna make it work for them to park better and all of these things, the timing, noise is noise.

What home it is?

If I'm hearing boom, boom, boom, and it's not at a home level.

Well, come on, the two o'clock, and then these places they call themselves entertainment spots, but then at 12 they switch over to clubs.

I know they got the lingo that you're saying, everything is new here.

My question is Norfolk, Virginia Beach don't have this problem.

Why?

Because Norfolk and Virginia Beast got rid of this riff race.

Why are we accepting this Riff Raft now?

And I and I hate saying this part because I don't want people to think bad about us, but yes, Portsmouth, the most dangerous city in Virginia.

Come on now.

And then we're gonna accept somebody else's riffraff.

Me and my me and my 200 neighbors, we invested in the city of Portsmouth.

We don't feel like the city of Portsmouth is investing in us.

I don't want to leave here tonight here and we're gonna do something about it.

Me and my kids can't sleep tonight.

We've been shot up.

Oh, it takes two incidents, or what we got to get shot up twice before something get done about it.

No.

No, no, I don't know if I'm using the correct lingo or the correct words, but that has to change and immediately.

Not we gonna come together and talk about it, and next week we're gonna get on to something.

We want to go to sleep tonight.

I'm pretty sure if they were shooting around your houses, some get done tonight.

That's all I'm asking.

To live in and not to live in fear, come on, y'all.

We can't sleep.

Our bedrooms are being shot up.

What if that man child was standing at that kitchen?

Huh?

I know it's 1:30.

Really, in the time of the night.

And then it's sad, I swear, because it's like a carnival going on.

I would love to have your numbers to call you in my bedroom at one o'clock and let you sing the song from the club that's going on a quarter mile across the street.

Now, mind you, have another one.

I I I appreciate everything you're saying.

Your time is up.

And you can, and you're welcome to remain if you want to if if you want some more dialogue, you're welcome to remain afterwards.

I understand, Mr.

Mayor, truly, really, because come election time, y'all got an hour for me.

We can stand out front and talk all day long.

Very good.

Right now, I need to do something now, not less than five minutes.

Thank you, sir.

Our next speaker is Gregory McCoy.

Mr.

McCoy, if you would come forward, state your name and address.

You will have five minutes.

Mr.

Mayor.

Councilman Dodson, sure you have the floor.

Thank you.

Uh Mr.

Majors, could you see me after the meeting, please?

Sure.

Good afternoon, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Councilman.

My name is Gregory McCoy.

I'm um also live in Afton Green.

My um neighborhouse was a house shot of, and it was right and it went through my fence, but didn't hit my home.

Um, I heard something about a grandfather.

So I'm wondering if those establishments are open um now.

Are they grandfathered in that they won't be in the zoning thing that's going up now because they already grandfathered?

Because like Ben said, we need something done now.

It's it's horrible.

I we were scared.

I had to get on the floor.

Wait, go check on my son in his room.

Then, like you say, my backyard is right at the door to the um club.

So you can jump my fence, and it's probably where y'all are sitting at now.

So I hear this noise constant.

So the 12 o'clock zoning is fine for me.

If they want it after 12, I love it.

We can get some rest.

Maybe we can put up with it till 12.

But like you're saying it, it's a restaurant during the day, and then at night, it's wide open.

It's wide open.

And like I said, I paid all this money for my home.

I moved from Norfolk over here, and I was skeptical.

I said, nah, it's it's gonna be fine.

But now one of my neighbors, they already got their house up for sale.

It only been last Thursday.

And I just don't think it's, you know, like you said, nobody's invested in us.

We come over here to look for something new, and we're scared to death.

So I can say I just hope they're not grandfathered in with this zoning thing won't apply to them.

But we need to do something.

And like you said, we just seen this on the news and we jumped up and came down here because we've been talking about it in the neighborhood for the last all weekend.

So if something can be done, we really we really would appreciate it.

We have we have a problem.

We have a problem, and I don't know what to do, and we're looking for y'all for help.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Councilman Hugo, so you have the floor.

Yeah, thank you.

Can you remain for a minute, Mr.

McCoy?

Yeah, he may have a question.

Yeah, so so my question is uh to the city attorney, ma'am.

Could you speak to what portions are grandfathered and the and the fact that enforcement is not grandfathered?

Can you can you talk to that, please?

Um, the enforcement, thank you for coming and speaking.

Both um the residents of um of Afton neighborhood in the George Washington community, the provisions in the zoning code that are new that you see do not apply to people who are legally operating right now.

But what you've described, but let me finish.

What you describe may be an illegal action because restaurants are restaurants and entertainment establishments should not turn into restaurants, shouldn't turn into entertainment establishments after hours.

And so if you are doing uh if you if if you have an a problem like that and you report that that then goes to an enforcement division where we can move and and enforce it pursuant to the zoning that's already on the books.

So if they vibe if you're legally operating, you're fine.

All rules stay the same.

But if you illegally operate, then we have the leeway to enforce those things that are already in the zoning code in accordance with that.

Now, remember earlier I talked about how we have this legislation that we're seeking where we'll be able to time out some of these use permits.

That will allow any new regulations to become enforced in the future.

But you're not concerned about the future, you're concerned about today, and I appreciate that.

And so what we can do is if you would share with our representative who will come up to you shortly, your name and information will follow up with you to get the information that you have because there are things on the books right now that we can do in the courts with our um planning department with our zoning administrator that may be able to get you some relief.

Thank you.

Thank you all.

Councilwoman Thomas Ma'am, you have the floor.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir, for coming to speak.

Um Madam Attorney also wanted to add to the what's grandfathered or not grandfathered.

Uh, if you can clarify, it's the two or more incidences also considered grandfathered, I mean, sorry, enforce whether you are grandfathered or not.

Let's be very clear.

Violence is not tolerated in Portsmouth.

If you have violence outside of your facility, whether you were here 10 minutes ago or 20 years ago, we can enjoy you from operating because of safety, health, and wellness, period.

We can do that today.

We could do that yesterday, but we got to hear from you, and we gotta have witnesses.

So if you see something, say something and be available, so when we do act, we have the people to say what happened.

That's the only way this gets closed down.

Now, what I will say is that now the code allows for the zoning administrator to act, like I described earlier, as well as the use permit to be revoked by council, and we've changed some timings on that to allow for it to be more swiftly done.

But I want to be very clear, the zoning code has not changed in the sense that we can act immediately on anything that affects the health and safety of our community.

And to add to that, that is why we're sitting here tonight because safety is priority one.

This council has determined that from day one, and we will adhere to that with everything that we have.

So you just need to understand that.

But we can't do our job and keep our community safe without the help of the community.

And you guys have stepped forward.

We'll we'll address your concerns.

That's why I said please don't leave here tonight until we've had a conversation.

Is that fair?

Thank you very much.

Once again, sorry, maybe if I can have a question.

Just to follow up with what um uh councilman Thomas was saying, there are provisions in here that talk about two or more incidents or one or more incidents, those are specifically just new enumerated, but we can act if the act is is an act that affects safe health and safety, we can move more quickly.

But this just allows the public to see that there are very specific times and terms upon which council can revoke uh a use permit or restaurant could have the zoning administrator act.

So it really just codifies what's already been able been available to you under the zoning code.

I hope that's clear.

Thank you.

Thank you, madam attorney.

Um once again, this is a public hearing.

If you want to come and speak on this item, you can come forward, state your name and address.

You will have five minutes.

Seeing none.

Well, ma'am, if you would come forward, please.

State your name and address.

Hello, I am Nicole Adams.

I am a homeowner at 35 Fraley Place, which is also in the Craddock neighborhood.

Um there were just a couple of things that I wanted to call attention to that were in the entertainment establishment section.

Also, with some of the comments that have been said, um, I also try an issue with the no outside promoters or third-party events, like the one gentleman mentioned.

Um, we want to promote people coming to Portsmouth to spend money to have entertainment to create positive memories, and that feels really discriminatory to like freelancers.

I know party promoters and things like that.

That is a viable um honorable um thing, job that brings entertainment, joy, healing to our community.

So I really wanted to point out how I didn't find that particular thing to be equitable for the type of business that we would like to attract in Portsmouth.

The other thing is that the casino is exempt from some of these things, and I was one of the people who was not in favor of the casinos.

We have giant promotion for the casino just by driving down the street, and we're saying that with no outside promoters or party promotion promotions.

Um, I think of this as a diversity issue.

I know we've had several speakers.

I also, like I said, I'm a homeowner in Crock.

I know some of the establishments, they have fabulous colossal shrimp at the corner, if I do say so myself.

But um, I represent a population who has been born in Portsmouth, loves to have entertainment in Portsmouth, bought a home in Portsmouth, and I want to represent the under 50 crowd that we hope to keep in our city that we want to keep entertained in our city as well.

Um the security plans also include police coordination, which I just wanted to state for the public that um all security security plans include um IDE check, weapons checks, security staff, and police coordination.

I'm not too much of a fan of police coordination, but that is just myself.

I want to highlight that just for the citizens, and again, um with the casino being uh exempted from some of these things.

It seems that we are driving business toward the casino and away from small businesses, and I really want to caution against that because we we're we're clearly not gonna have a second casino, but we do hope to have more and more small businesses.

If you look around, I was in Old Town before this meeting, dead.

We hope to have more energy.

I hope to see more entertainment venues and less barriers to them.

I think when we talk about um we have enough of these problems and riff raff.

Um, yeah, I think that we're talking about black people, and I hope that we see the potential and young black people enjoying entertainment in our city.

Thank you.

And I want to speak to that question or that that comment.

Let me be clear, and I'm not speaking on behalf of my colleagues on council, but I'm speaking as the mayor of the city of Portsmouth.

Safety is a non-negotiable, and we're not we're not singling out anyone, any race, any people, any person, any gender.

Safety is a non-negotiable.

Okay.

Thank you.

Anyone else who wants to come and speak on this item?

You can come forward and speak.

You state your name and address.

You have five minutes.

Hello, my name is Vilma Brown.

My address is 5142 Calso Way, Portsmouth, Virginia, 23703.

First of all, I want to still first, hello, can you hear me?

We can hear you.

Okay.

First of all, I want to start off to say, I'm very offended when they say Portsmouth is the most dangerous city in the world.

That's not true.

I love Portsmouth.

I represent Portsmouth.

And also, so I wanted to say that I love going to the Bobnet Barnai.

I'm 57 years old.

Me and my friends, I think it's a great establishment.

And it's not the people from the club, it's not the club, it's the gang, gang related gangs is everywhere.

So when they say that they not safe, you're not safe anywhere.

That's how I feel.

You could be in the airport, you could be in church, everywhere.

And only I'm gonna say, I love going, you know, Barnaby.

I'm tired of going to Virginia Beach, riding 40 minutes to Virginia Beach just for me and my girlfriends 55 and up, just to have what you know, a nice time, nice dinner, and listen to great music.

And I just think we need something in Portsmouth.

We stood us turn Portsmouth down, let's be a Portsmouth back up.

And that's just how I feel.

And everything so I feel like, yes, let's go and have something in Portsmouth.

And I think Barnai is a family-oriented place.

Me and my family go there all the time to eat.

They got great food, great entertainment.

And I just say, hey, let's just give Portsmouth a chance.

Stood always talking about Portsmouth.

And I voted for each and every one of y'all.

So that's all I'm saying.

Give it a chance.

Thank you very much.

This is a public hearing.

Anyone wishing to come and speak on this item?

You have five minutes.

Seeing none.

This public hearing is closed.

Council members, we are in need of a motion and a second.

Move to adopt.

Second.

Is any additional discussion on this item?

Seeing none, please vote electronically.

Council materials.

Maybe councilwoman Thomas, ma'am.

You have the floor.

Yeah, sorry, thank you.

Before I voted, I did have a discussion.

Um is that can I still have this discussion point really quick?

Um, we're voting on this ordinance change.

One thing that was just mentioned, um, I mentioned last night during our discussion was item related to entertainment establishments and the outside promoter third party events language in there.

Um I wanted to see if we could get that language if it was with the consensus of count of council pulled out or addressed because based on some of the examples I gave last night, we would limit um a restaurant's ability to host third party events, and we know some examples that I provided last night based on a certain high school's homecoming events, other events that are held at restaurants.

It would basically, since this restaurant would be grandfathered in, it would limit any new restaurants from being able to also serve that type of business.

So before we vote, I'm not sure if we already did that.

I just wanted to add that comment on reiterating what I already stated last night as well.

So that was my question.

We already have a motion, we already have a motion and I pushed the wrong button.

We already have a motion and a second on the table.

We so we need to just vote at this time.

We have a motion and a second on the table.

Call for the vote.

Please vote electronically.

The item is adopted five to thank you.

Let's move on to the unfinished business item.

Item 25 137.

And these are unfinished business items, and only the speakers who are registered will speak on these items.

Um, they were previously under a public hearing.

So item B 25-137B.

Madam Clerk, would you please read the resolution we are considering for this item?

Yes, sir.

Resolution granting a use permit, UP 2503 to R.

Brown to operate an entertainment establishment on a portion of a parcel having an address of 2012 Victory Boulevard.

Thank you, ma'am.

And I think we have one speaker for that, Mr.

Steve Carroll.

My name and my address has not changed.

Let me make it clear that I do not know any of these applicants personally, and that goes for uh the next three items that are on the agenda.

I'm opposed to this use permit, largely because of the points that I've made earlier, but I will add a few extra, and I am building to something, and uh I'll go ahead and forego my time for the next two items.

I'll say what I need to say for right now for uh this 25-137.

There is a member on council right now who attended a civic meeting downtown a few years ago that I attended.

I don't know what you call it.

I don't know if it was a restaurant, an entertainment establishment.

Who knows what you call it?

I do remember this.

The people in the room in the business next door, six feet away, you could not hear what they were saying because the noise from that other establishment next door was so bad.

Now, the place we were in was a restaurant.

It was so bad that the pots and pans were rattling on the wall.

Ladies on the dais, forgive me for what I'm I'm gonna try to be tactful here.

I stuck around and watched the client tell after we were done with our business.

I saw three individuals go in.

And this is not this particular business, but I'm opposed to it for these reasons.

There was not enough cotton to be found to diaper a gnat.

This is a problem, members of council.

This is what these types of businesses.

This one, any other one like it are attracting to our city.

I can't say it any other way.

But going back to the noise, I I can't describe how loud it was.

I can't make it any clearer than what it was.

And it's it does a disservice to adjacent businesses.

You just heard somebody who's 800 yards away and could still not go to sleep.

This is not what Portsmouth should be about, and it certainly wasn't what Portsmouth was about.

Now I'm lived here all of my life.

I can remember the old days of Harry's Light Horse Tavern.

A lot of people will remember it if you were in the Navy.

Okay.

Those things went by the wayside for a reason, did they not?

They lost their interest, but they were also detrimental to the image of this city.

And I'll say again, and I'm and again I'm building to something when I go non-agenda.

Um we simply lack the resources to properly monitor this business and any other like it.

And when the mud hits the fan, it's too late.

It's already happened.

By the way, this is very close to an incident we had just not too long ago where we had a parking lot spin-out incident.

I'll say no more.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Council members on this item, item 25-137, item B.

Uh we are in need of a motion and a second.

Move for adoption.

Second.

We have a motion and a second.

Any additional discussion on this item?

Please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 6-1.

Item 25-15 159 item B.

Madam Clerk, please read the resolution we are considering for this item.

A resolution granting a use permit, UP 2504 to be asked be to operate an event space banquet hall at 6031 High Street West.

Madam Clerk, thank you.

And we do have a registered speaker for this item.

He decided he didn't want to.

You're going to forgo your speaking on this item, sir, or wait till non-agenda.

Okay.

Just want to make sure we're clear.

With that being said, then council members, we are in need of a motion and a second.

So any time.

Seeing none.

This well, we need we need a move to adopt.

Second.

You got what we have a motion and a second.

Any motion to deny?

Yes.

Is there any additional comments?

No, that wasn't a motion to deny.

I apologize.

Move to adopt.

Oh, move to adopt.

Move to adopt.

Okay.

I got a lot of conversations.

Okay.

So the motion is the motion to adopt.

And we have a second.

Any additional discussion on the item?

Yes.

So we have an item for discussion.

Is it Councilman Hugo, sir?

Do you have a have a have a comment?

You have the floor.

So the current conditions in the use permit include uh Monday through Sunday closing hours of 2 a.m.

for an event center that's going to conduct wedding receptions and birthday parties and so I don't know if the applicant is here, but I'm wondering if the applicant would uh reconsider adjusting the uh closing hours during the week Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Sunday night to midnight.

We'll leave the work the closing hours to 2 a.m.

on Friday night and Saturday night.

But but my proposal would be to uh make that adjustment in the conditions.

Uh and uh I'd be interested in hearing from the applicant.

Is the applicant present?

Ma'am, if you would come forward, state your name and address, and you will have the floor.

Good evening, thank you for allowing me to speak, counsel.

My name's Belinda Ashby.

I live at 2433 Bugle Drive, Chesapeake, Virginia.

Um the question um I had put in for uh requesting to be able to stay open later.

Um I just need that upon request of my clients because I do have different cultures that I service, and some start later in the evening than um than other cultures.

Um my venue is in a shopping center that is not around any, so I don't the gentleman who spoke, I don't have any of those problems with sounds with um residents, I don't have any violence because I have two other um venues in uh Chesapeake on in Western branch.

I am people who come to my establishment because we have different um events such as retirement parties, uh baby showers, graduations, birthdays, um, corporate events.

Um I don't have those problems of people just coming in for a party and you know having a good time and they plan their stuff out, they uh spend some money on the decor.

Um we're I would like to say a luxury venue.

We have over 16 chandeliers.

Um it's important to me that um the place always looks like a luxury event.

No one standing out front.

I requested um it I requested um that they um allow me to use my back door because it said that they needed it to be used for emergency only, but in my plans in my um architectural design, I have put a back area designated for smoking, so that excuse me, ma'am.

I I I don't mean to to be to interrupt you, but I don't want to rehash everything else.

I only have one very straightforward question.

Are you willing to reconsider adjusting your closing hours to midnight on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday nights, leaving the closing hours at 2 a.m.

on Friday and Saturday nights.

That's a yes or a no if it's gonna kill your business on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday nights to not be open until 2 a.m.

then just tell me that and we'll proceed to vote.

Well, it doesn't kill my business, but like I said, I do have some cultures that come in that might want a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.

I have someone looking right now to have a wedding for three days.

And if I say, well, hey, no, because you can't go past 12.

I mean, they might not want it, but if they request it, then it might shoot me down for having events with different cultures.

So I don't have a problem closing at 12, but if I have a request, which might not happen too often because I don't want to be open to two, um, I would like to be able to entertain my clients' wishes.

Um I would like to be able to entertain my clients' wishes.

Whatever day it might be.

So I'm listening carefully for a yes or a no.

Yes.

You're agreeing to change the hours or no.

You need 2 a.m.

for all seven nights.

I'm not sure how to answer that correctly.

Okay.

Because 2 a.m.

is not something I need.

Okay, well, well, well, I I think in the interest of time, I think that that if if it's not a definite yes, you are, then it's it's a no.

So what we're fine with that, uh, but we need to move the discussion forward.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Is there any additional discussion on this item?

Hearing none, please yes, yes.

Okay, I can't some of these I can't see some of the next one.

Okay.

Councilman Dodson, sir.

You have the floor.

Yes, I'm familiar with this location, and as she stated previously, there's nothing around her but a very quiet shopping center, uh, a restaurant and a pizza place are really all that operates at night where she is.

And when we were considering this ordinance, we decided that location, like in a neighborhood, we were going to say uh really needs to close down at 12, but those that were in public locations would be okay until 2 a.m.

And my opinion on this one is that this location meets the criteria that we were discussing it for a 2 a.m.

Um venue.

And uh, my vote would be to uh keep it at 2 a.m.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

So we've had our discussion, we have a motion and a second.

Please vote electronically.

I'm sorry.

This item is adopted 52.

Our next item, item 25-195.

Item B.

And madam clerk, would you please read the resolution?

A resolution granting a use permit UP 25-05 to see Hogans to operate an entertainment establishment at 1805 Hodges Ferry Road.

We do not have any speakers for this item.

So council members, we in need of an emotion and a second.

Move to deny.

Second.

We have a motion to deny and a second.

Who seconded it?

The motion to deny was Councilman Hugo.

The second, I think was Councilman Tillage.

Okay.

Thank you.

We have a motion to deny any additional discussion on that on that motion.

Seeing none, please vote.

Okay, Councilman Tillage, you have Dotson.

Okay.

Councilman Dodson, sir.

You have the floor.

Again, again, when we discussed this ordinance, so we've discussed location specifics to it.

And I wanted to reiterate to everybody this was a owner who specifically stated that he would be very willing to stay open till only 12 o'clock, if I remember correctly.

Um for this venue for this neighborhood.

It's not an ideal location for an event, but uh, I don't know how we would um I know that it's a parking gets out of hand, and if that there must be a legal agreement, I think we talked about with the next door owner, there would be no other events in the other parking lot either uh during the hours of operation uh in there.

So I'm not happy that it's next to a residential neighborhood, but it does meet the correct criteria that we established.

We have a motion to deny in a second.

We have had discussion.

Please vote electronically.

This item is denied by a vote of 6.1.

That concludes our items for our unfinished business.

We are now on to items for city managers report.

Item 25-227.

And madam clerk, would you please read the ordinance that we are considering for this item?

An ordinance accepting home investment partnership program income and the amount of 42,660 and appropriating set amount in the F by 2026 community planning and development program fund.

Thank you, ma'am.

Council members, we are in need of a motion and a second.

Move to adopt.

Second.

Any additional discussion?

You go and mutate.

Please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 70.

Item 25-228.

And Madam Clerk, would you please read the ordinance we are considering for this item?

An ordinance accepting funding and amount of 150,000 from the Virginia 911 Services Board and appropriating said amount in the FY 2026 grants fund for the purpose, excuse me, purchase of equipment to enhance 911 services.

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Council members, we are needing a motion and a second.

Move adoption.

Second.

Any additional discussion?

Please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 70.

Thank you, ma'am.

Item 25-229.

And Madam Clerk, would you please read the ordinance that we are considering for this item?

An ordinance accepting a grant in the amount of $2 million $932,000 from the Virginia Department of Criminal Justice Services and appropriating set of sum in the FY 2026 grants fund for use by the police department to fund the Portsmouth 2026 Safer Communities Program.

Thank you, ma'am.

Council members, we are in need of a motion and a second.

Any additional discussion?

Seeing none, please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 70.

Thank you, ma'am.

Item 25-230.

And madam clerk, would you please read the ordinance that we are considering for this item?

An ordinance appropriating 1.2 million dollars from the fund balance of the general fund to the FY 2026 general fund budget and authorizing the provision of said funds to the Portsmouth Redevelopment and Housing Authority for the Lexington Senior Apartments Project.

Council members, we are in need of a motion and a second.

Any additional discussion?

Seeing none, please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 70.

Next item, item 25-231.

And madam clerk, could you read please read the ordinance we are considering for this item?

An ordinance accepting settlement funds in the amount of $30,28147 from an opiate sell settlement and appropriating set amount in the FY 2026 Behavioral Health Care Service Fund for use by BHS for approved abatement purposes and defined by the Virginia Opiate Fund and Settlement Allocation MOU.

Thank you, ma'am.

Council members, we are in need of a motion and a second.

Move to second.

Any additional discussion?

Seeing none, please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 70.

Council members, item 25-232.

And madam clerk, would you please read the ordinance for this item?

An ordinance accepting with appreciation a donation in the amount of 260 from Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Inc.

an appropriating set amount in the FY 2026 Behavioral Health Care Service Fund for use by the Department of Behavioral Health Care Services to support clients.

Thank you, ma'am.

Second we have a motion and a second.

Any additional discussion, please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 70.

Item 25-233.

And madam clerk, would you please read the ordinance that we are considering for this item?

An ordinance accepting markets alert uh program funding in the amount of $600,000 from the Virginia Department of Behavioral Health and Developmental Services and appropriating said amount in the FY 2026 Behavioral Health Care Service Fund for the planning and implementation of the Markets Alert System.

Council members, we are in need of a motion and they second with adoption.

Second.

Any additional discussion on this item?

Seeing none, please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 70.

Thank you.

Item 25-234 and Madam Clerk, would you please read the ordinance that we are considering under this item?

An ordinance accepting with appreciation a donation in the amount of 100 dollars from the Porcement chapter of the National Drifters Inc.

and appropriating said funds to the FY 2026 Social Services Fund for use by DSS to support the food pantry.

Thank you.

Council members, we are in need of a motion and a second.

Move to adopt.

Any additional discussion on this item?

Seeing none, please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 70.

Item 25-235.

And madam clerk, would you please read the ordinance we are considering for this item?

An ordinance accepting additional local staff and operations funding in the amount of 155,063 from the Virginia comp from the Commonwealth of Virginia and appropriating said funds in the FY 2026 Social Services Fund for the purpose of paying a one-time bonus to eligible Portsmouth Department of Social Services Employees.

Council members, we are in need of a motion and a second.

Second.

Any additional discussion on this item?

Seeing none, please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 70.

Item 25-236.

And madam clerk, would you please read the ordinance that we are considering for this item?

An ordinance accepting additional 4E foster care funding in the amount of $87,720 from the Virginia Department of Social Services, an appropriating said amount in the FY 2026 Social Services Fund for use by DSS to pay eligible foster care costs.

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Council members, we are in need of a motion that they second.

Move to adopt.

Second.

Any additional discussion?

Seeing none, please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 70.

Item 25-237.

And madam clerk, would you please read the ordinance we are considering for this item?

An ordinance accepting funding and the amount of 2700 from the Virginia Department of Social Services and appropriating said amount in the FY 2026 Social Services Fund for the Family Partnership Meeting Initiative Program.

Council members, we are in need of a motion and a second.

Move to adopt.

Second.

Any additional discussion?

Seeing none, please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 70.

Item 25-238.

And madam clerk, would you please read the ordinance we are considering for this item?

An ordinance accepting kinship support funds in the amount of $500 from the Virginia Department of Social Services and appropriating set amount in the FY 2026 Social Services Fund to assist with expenses related to supporting kinship resource parents.

Council members, we are in need of a motion and a second.

Move to adopt.

Second.

Any additional discussion?

Seeing none, please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 70.

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

That concludes our city manager's items.

And now we move to new business.

Item 25-239.

Boards and commissions.

And Councilman Hugo, do we have any boards or commissions to report tonight?

Mr.

Mayor, we do not.

Thank you, sir.

Our next item, item 25-240.

Item submitted by council members.

Item A and Madam Clerk, would you please read the resolution we are considering for this item?

Item A.

Yes, sir.

A resolution granting a one-year extension of use permit UP 2305 to construct a townhouse development having not more than 52 units at 1107 and 1021 High Street.

Council members, we're in need of a motion and a second.

Second.

Any additional discussion on this item?

Seeing none, please vote electronically.

This item is adopted 70.

Item B, Madam Clerk, would you please read the resolution we are considering for item B?

Yes, sir.

A resolution granting a one-year extension of use permit UP 2103 to construct and operate a multifamily dwelling development with not to exceed 280 units at 4358 Greenwood Drive.

Council members, we are in need of a motion and a second.

Second.

We have a motion and a second.

Any additional discussion?

Seeing none, please vote electronically.

Are there any other items submitted by my colleagues on council at this time?

Councilman Dodson, sure, you have the floor.

Um please tell me if it I'm interjecting this at the right time, but I was able to attend the uh school board retreat.

And I was impressed with the organization.

One of the criticisms I had of the school board was their management of some of the resources, and they to my delight, they have hired Dr.

Pettis Patton to handle some of those items.

And I expressed my desire to have more interaction with them.

And if you didn't notice tonight, uh Clue Atkinson was in the audience from the school board tonight.

Uh we were very I was very happy to see her here to have more interaction between us.

And I'd like to see if we could get Dr.

Patton on the agenda for a uh near future meeting.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Um other items by my colleagues on council uh to be submitted.

Well, I have a couple items.

I want to thank all of the local organizations in our city who helped with our back the school efforts.

Um there was Mercy Chefs who had a block party and they gave out uh significant backpacks over 800 and fed 1,500 of our citizens.

In addition to that, we had organizations uh such as big homies, big give back to the block, in addition to believe, pray, and overcome who had events during the August month, the month of August, who really helped our families and really supported them in the efforts to be ready and prepared to go back to school.

So, on behalf of a grateful city, we want to thank them.

And I also want on a sad note to let everyone know that we lost another one of our citizens who made a big difference in the city of Portugal.

I believe a former first citizen, Mr.

Robert uh Robert T.

Williams and Bob Williams, as we all affectionately called Bob, uh, was a very integral part of our city.

I believe he served as the city manager, most importantly, uh his organization was instrumental in building our courthouse.

And I just want to say, on behalf of the Portsmouth City Council, I served with Bob on a number of organizations, and his wife Judy, of course, we want to offer the Williams family our condolences during this difficult time.

Any other items submitted?

I see councilwoman Thomas.

Ma'am, you have the floor.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, first I want to say uh we you mentioned the back to school, so forced public schools, of course, started back to school.

Uh, myself and councilman Bryant have children in the school system, so uh we've been navigating that, and I want to thank all the teachers, all the community members that came out to welcome the students community.

That's a strong point.

It's not just the school system, it's all of us as a community uh working together to ensure that our students and our staff and our teachers all feel um supported by the community.

So, and also kudos, like the mayor said, to all the community organizations that participated in giving back to the schools.

Uh, one thing I wanted to, well, two things I wanted to mention, but they all center around the topic um of why we discussed the ordinance, of course, public safety.

And I just want to thank the everyone that came to speak tonight about this ordinance.

Um this is just the first step, and we this is like the first swipe at this, right?

Um, in in terms of addressing our establishments and how we can better enforce and provide some boundaries around that.

So there was one piece of it that I would like to change, and hopefully, as we continue to you know, put this out and implement um the new ordinance and you the use permit process that we can somehow come back and make amendments when we see things working and not working.

So I wanted to put that out there.

Um, so thank you.

Continue to speak up.

The two gentlemen right there that you know we're hearing your voice and about some of the issues that you're facing being in close proximity, those are the type of things we do need to hear.

We do need to document because it it helps us better tailor and make sure we're doing the right things in the forcement.

So I hear you and thank you for speaking up and all the other gentlemen and the people that spoke in terms of how we balance it with supporting businesses as well.

So um please continue to speak.

Our numbers, you mentioned getting our numbers, our numbers are listed on the website.

Our numbers are listed on the website.

We answer calls, we answer emails, and we want to hear from you.

So I want to put that out there.

Also, I want to have a follow-up item.

I wanted to just put out there for our council and Mr.

Carter.

Um a few work sessions ago, uh, police chief Jenkins, he gave us a presentation.

Um he displayed the new dashboard, and part of that was also highlighting uh a neighborhood with that was accounting for 15 to 20 percent of police calls.

And in that discussion, um, I wanted to know.

I I brought this up to Mr.

Carter, if there's a way that we can also look at piloting a program or some sort of additional steps to focus on that highlighted neighborhood that Chief Jenkins presented during his work session.

If you remember, it was a certain radius around and um I think it was Fayette.

I can't remember the exact street names, but it was a few work sessions ago.

Um I talked one-on-one with the with Mr.

Carter about just some ideas of how we take the data that Chief Jenkins has provided us with real numbers about where 15 to 20 percent of those calls are coming from to really put some impact.

Uh, Councilwoman McBride had one time we have talked about some solutions that we could maybe implement in a pilot to really um utilize some data and evidence-based um methodologies to really reduce maybe our hot spots in crime, and I wanted to bring that back to the attention while we're still addressing overall public safety um tonight.

So thank you.

Thank you, ma'am.

Councilwoman Bryant, ma'am.

You have the floor.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, I I wanted to add to the comments tonight that the actions taken by council tonight to approve this new ordinance are centered entirely on public safety, and we recognize that there's a need for public safety um across the city, and the new measures that we've put forth are intended to address that.

And I want to thank our planning staff and our planning commission, um, the work of my colleagues here on councils.

We spent a long time working on these measures with the goal of not letting safety continue to escalate, public safety continue to escalate in a negative way.

Um, our goal is to enforce these measures, and with the um approvals that we did for the new businesses tonight, we will have that opportunity to move forward with the new ordinance in a way that we can measure outcomes and we can um revisit this conversation if need be.

Um so thank you to everyone who put time in, Dr.

Russell, for walking us through this repeatedly.

Um, it's it's really a positive step forward, but one that we will of course continue to monitor.

Um, that said, and uh piggyback off of my fellow councilwoman's comments tonight on public safety and congratulations to our police department.

Mayor, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know that anyone we haven't met since they were Calia certified.

Is that correct?

That is correct.

Okay, so congratulations to the Portsmouth Police Department for earning um national accreditation.

That is a um very positive outcome.

That was I believe 30-ish years in the making.

Our police department works very hard.

Um, and that is proven now with this national accreditation.

So thank you to our police department.

Thank you, ma'am.

And also uh I'm now going to turn the floor over to Madam City Attorney.

She has some comments.

Thank you.

I just wanted to also thank um all the special needs uh teachers and uh teaching aid, support aids, and administrators in the poison public school system as a parent of a special needs um student and uh entering high school.

I think we are just as nervous as our kids are, and I want to thank all the teachers who have been very supportive and the administrators who've done that.

Um, I also want to um welcome Principal Smedley, who's a new principal at Churchland High School.

She's been a uh phenomenal addition to the poison public schools.

Um, and I wanted to also add that I too have a little one, although councilwoman Thomas left me out of that uh shout out uh with a student in the public school system, and I just want to give my kudos to them as well.

Also, I did meet several um special needs parents who had questions about IEPs, and I extended to them my email and phone number at the city.

I'd be more than willing to help them navigate through that process, so do not hesitate the city attorney's office and ask for me, and I'll help you through that.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Thank you, ma'am, for sharing.

Now we're moving on to item 25-241 report on pending items.

And Mr.

Carter, sir, you have the floor.

Thank you, Mayor.

Just a couple of items.

First of all, we you have your report back that was presented to you in your package today.

Um councilwoman Brown stole my thunder.

It doesn't hurt to have it sounded off again from the CEO's perspective.

Absolutely.

Our police department has worked diligently toward this for several decades to make this happen.

My police chief say every police chief that he's worked under has this has set this as a goal, but we finally reached that milestone, and I'm really really proud of them for the work and the effort that they've put into this because now not only are we saying that we're doing what's right, but we have a nationally accredited organization that has looked at what we do and agree that what we're doing is right.

So that is really a special thing when other people recognize the work that you've put in.

And to achieve this after all that time, I think it's amazing.

So I'm really proud of that group, and congratulations to Chief Jenkins and his team.

You're here.

This will uh start on September the 15th and go through November the 17th.

Registration will start at 12 p.m.

on September 2nd.

Let me repeat that.

Registration starts at 12 p.m.

on September 2nd.

It's only open to 25 people.

The reason I'm repeating that is the last time we opened that, it closed in about 30 minutes.

So if you're interested, uh September the 2nd at 12 p.m.

is when it will open.

You're you'll be able to go to our website starting on uh tomorrow and find all the information about how to register and what the classes is all about.

So if you're interested, and I hope we do have the same kind of enthusiasm and turnout that we did before.

Government, the fall version of government 101 uh will kick off on September 15th, and the registration starts on September 2nd at 12 p.m.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, Manager Carter.

Our next item 25-242.

Non-agenda speakers and madam clerk, would you please read the speaker's statement?

Yes, sir.

Ladies and gentlemen, city council rules require a limit of up to five minutes to speak.

As you approach the speaker's podium, you notice the timer.

At the beginning of your five minutes, you will see a green light.

Four minutes into your remarks, you will notice a yellow light.

At the end of five minutes, you will see a red light.

Hear a beep, and we ask that you conclude your comments at that time.

While speakers have an opportunity to address counsel on matters of public concern, all comments should be made in a manner that respects the seriousness of the forum and should not be made in a belligerent, sarcastic or demeaning fashion.

All remarks shall be directed to the city council as a body rather than any particular member of city council staff or the audience, and should be limited to matters that only the Porcens City Council can influence.

A speaker who fails to observe this basic decorum will be deemed out of order and not allowed to conclude his or her comments.

Thank you, madam clerk.

And our first speaker for the evening will be Mr.

David House.

Mr.

House, if you would come forward, state your name and address, sir.

You will have five minutes.

So as you know, I'm an advocate about um nuisance properties in the city of Portsmouth.

And I'd like to bring one to your attention that's in uh West Norfolk, and I encourage you to go over there and look.

So the property is at 3304 uh Harding Avenue, and it uh butts up to 3600 Progress Avenue.

So I got a for you yesterday from uh the four-year manager, and I got uh 60 pages of information that I did not get give to you.

This is additional information that I just got.

So this property has been in the city's radar for 14 years.

It was cited in 2011.

Uh the property was sold, and then it it it had no action for uh over four years.

It was cited in uh 2014, uh uh uh December, and it was uh closed November 2016, so it was outstanding for uh th uh 23 months, no final action was done, so it was outstanding.

It was also cited uh by zoning uh in 2015, uh November, uh stayed outstanding for till uh January 17.

Um they decided not to prosecute.

So in um February 21 nuisance was the violation.

This is from uh permits and inspection, uh numerous inoperable vehicles as well as heavy equipment and and on around the property.

Case was open, case was inspected, no finalization, so it's still open, no action taken.

April 22.

Uh owner renting campers in the yard.

Case was open, unfounded and closed.

So this property would later be cited on November and 23 by zoning for camper RV with human um habitants living on the property, and again this year in June 13, 2025.

Complaint unfounded, nuisance and debris was all over the property.

It was not addressed at all during the violation notice.

May 22.

Case was open, inspected, and closed.

Nowhere does it so show anything about the nuisance property.

Case the open property was inspected by permits and inspection, but no action was taken to address the nuisance.

Zoning November 23.

They cited the property for goods junk material, merchandise, vehicles in the same place.

They cited it for outdoor storage of vehicles, equipment and materials, including RV, camper RV with human uh habitants on the property.

Case was open, property was cited, issued a notice of violation, summons requested on February 24.

Case is still open, and zoning just walked away from it.

February this year.

Uh notice of violation for protective treatment, exterior walls, zoning.

I mean uh inspection did not cite it for uh debris or violations or anything on the property.

March this year.

Uh the property had multiple zoning matters including industrial junk, yard open uh storage, industrial equipment and residential community and parking on an unapproved uh surface.

A door hanger was placed at the entrance of the property.

The door hanger was placed on a refrigerator sitting on the front porch.

A C click fix was generated in October of 24, and it was it was uh acknowledged in uh June of uh this year, June 13th, and that's when the city actually took took action.

So now we're to June this year.

Zoning sighted the property for unpermitted outside storage, conduct construction yard, junkyard use, improper parking on the grass and improved surfaces, prohibited use of camper type trailer for human habitation.

So you have pictures that are the pictometry for the last six years showing the property.

You also have pictures that have been taken in the last two to three months that show trash on the property, show all types of has uh all types of um equipment on the property, and once again it's it's it's a property that the city has has had on the radar for 14 years, and we're still here with it in a worse condition now than it was 14 years ago.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Vice Mayor Moody, sir.

You have the floor.

Thank thank you, uh Mr.

House, uh, for bringing those things to our attention.

Uh last night during our public work session, uh the subject came up of uh uh how to deal with blighted uh properties uh throughout our city.

And and there are processes in Virginia state code that allows uh cities to to deal with those in the form of uh uh blight taxes, in other words, uh increase in the uh property tax on uh ownership uh of these properties.

And uh that's something I hope our uh city attorney because there is a process, and obviously anything the uh state code uh uh it's not probably an easy process, but it's one that this council should explore.

Uh there are uh cities in Virginia that are using that to clean up their city.

Um I think we we definitely should look into that.

Uh you know, some of these properties we've been aware of for a number of years, and and uh they're still with us unfortunately, blighting their particular community.

So uh and this and this is a residential, this is a both of these properties that you see are residential properties.

They're not commercial, they're not industrial, they're residential properties.

Well, the state code allows you uh allows uh uh cities to deal with uh the residential piece as well as the commercial uh piece.

Yes, sir.

But like I said, the these properties are strictly residential, so the blight and whatever is even even greater in in that situation.

Uh so mayor, I I would uh hope our city attorney will get back to uh council on uh what some of our options are and and how we could proceed with some of those things.

Madam City Attorney, you have the floor.

Yes, thank thank you for that opportunity.

I would tell you that I was a part of a someone already beat me to the punch, quite frankly.

I do believe it's the city manager, or maybe it was the assessor, but that's already been batted around and it's being discussed, and I think they're putting together a work group, and once they do that, we'll review it for form and legality and then get it back to council.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Go ahead.

Um, Mr.

Carter, sure, you have the floor.

Mr.

House, uh, would you like for that to be one of the ones for September that we investigate for you?

Oh, well, I just I just gave you the carrot, so you're not you want to take it from me.

No, I'm just asking.

I'm just asking.

We'll have to see because that now now it's on now, it's on visibility for everybody in council to see.

All right.

And I mean, I what's concerning is is that it's been ongoing for 14 years.

Right.

The city has taken two action zoning actions that lasted um what we're handle it.

Yeah, I'm just asking.

I understand.

I haven't I haven't decided that yet.

Okay, no problem.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

What's not being said is that there is a cooperative agreement between the parties here and they're negotiating.

So don't uh don't don't uh be swayed by what's happening here.

Yeah, exactly.

A priority.

Thank you.

Thank you all for that dialogue.

Our next speaker, Mr.

Gary Bahena.

Mr.

Bahena, if you would come forward, state your name and address, sir.

You will have five minutes.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor, Mr.

Vice Mayor, City Council, City Manager Carter, Judge Graham Williams.

Uh thank you very much for uh letting me speak tonight.

I'll be brief.

Um I'm here about paddle battle and junior paddle battle.

Um paddle battle, uh Portsmouth paddle battle is kayak and SUP racing, paddle board racing, which is next Saturday, not this coming Saturday, but the Saturday after.

Our races start at 10.

The um Coast Guard versus Navy Challenge Cup is at 11 o'clock.

Um we received a call last week from the U.S.

Bush, USS Bush, asking if there was a limit to the number of Navy entrants that they could put up against the Coast Guard.

Um so the gauntlet has been thrown down.

Um and and we'll see how that goes.

Uh the bigger event for us, of course, is the junior paddle battle, which is this is our first year of doing that.

We've had a number of setbacks.

Um lost our our prime sponsor at the beginning of the event, uh PRHA unfortunately lost the grant that they were using to help us get kids through the YMCA.

Um what we've done is we have waived the requirement that kids coming in to the junior paddle battle have passed the swim class.

Um that became impossible for the PRHA residents, uh the community residents there, and so we've waived that our insurance company waived it.

Um and so we have a number of slots left.

I'm here basically to plug that and to encourage people in our community to go to the Portsmouth Paddle Battle website, just Google Portsmouth Paddle Battle, Google Portsmouth free kayak lessons or junior paddle battle, and it'll take you to our site.

Sign up your kids.

We'd be happy to have them.

It's Saturday, September 6th.

Our first class starts at 12:30.

It ends at five o'clock, and they're free kayak lessons for Portsmouth kids ages eight to fourteen, and now you don't have to know how to swim.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, sir.

Our next speaker is Mr.

Steve Carroll.

Ms.

Carroll, if you come forward, state your name and address, you will have five minutes.

Steve Carroll, Portsmouth, Virginia.

I'm going to bring, as I promised my earlier comments full circle with what I'm going to cover tonight or now.

We have a cannabis problem in the city of Portsmouth.

We have a drug problem in the city of Portsmouth.

I heard no less than three members of council tonight say that safety was a priority for us.

May my wife and I came up here downtown to go see a movie, enjoy a dinner together.

And walking up the sidewalk, we had to run the gauntlet of people smoking pot in public.

Not just one, not just two, gangs of people.

July, we came down to watch the fireworks, as we have for years down on the sidewalk off of Crawford Parkway.

A young man and three younger women in tow sat down about six foot in front of us.

The wind was coming from the east, so it was blowing their weed smoke right in our face.

If the man was an adult, I'd be surprised.

But I'll I will say that he is an adult.

One female might have been an adult.

My wife and I discussed it on the way home, the other two were minors.

He lit his joint up, and it was the size of a ballpoint pen.

Passed it, took his drag, passed it on down the line to two miners.

And please understand what I'm saying now.

How many hundreds of kids were present there that night, members of council.

Now, you're beginning to see the picture of my concern earlier about these establishments and the loose rain that has been on them.

And this is not new.

This is not a green onion, just popped up.

We brought this before council year after year after year about the problems with these establishments.

Entertainment, whatever you want to call them.

The underlying problem is a lack of enforcement.

And I do not lay this at the doorstep of our police department.

I have a lot of sympathy for the police chief who has been handed a pick in a wheelbarrow and told to move a mountain.

I lay it right here.

And in fairness, I lay it to some of the people who come to this podium and defend this garbage.

Let me read to you state code statute.

I don't know the legal term for it.

4.11 TAC 1108.

No person shall consume marijuana or marijuana product or offer marijuana or a marijuana product to another, whether accepted or not, at or any other public place.

Walking down Portsmouth sidewalks.

When we say we're going to enforce safety, those are not idle words.

And we need to do something about that.

Thank you, sir.

Our next speaker is Daniel House.

Mr.

House, if you would come forward, state your name and address, sir.

You have five minutes.

Good evening, council members.

So we've talked about safety and the need for safety.

What I like to bring to your attention today, I've already brought to your attention an email, but I didn't get any response from anybody.

I've been to zoning with it, didn't get any response from zoning.

So here I am.

So basically, if for whatever reason a zoning permits issued, and it's incorrect.

Virginia code says that if it's discovered the zoning administrator promptly will seek to correct it.

So 32-4 says prior to erecting a fence or building, the property owner shall verify the street lines between the city and the lot on which the fence is about to be erected.

And then I go in, I've got my email to all the city council members, and I got a picture.

I got a picture of a property that shows a uh driveway with a six-foot fence and a car around it that's doesn't have 50% visibility and it's not four foot tall, it's it's three foot tall, it's four foot tall.

But the city approved it.

And they they did a survey waiver, and it says, although the city has requested and recommended that I submit a survey to show the exact location of the proposed improvement.

I elected not uh to submit a survey.

Unfortunately, on this property, they didn't they didn't give them the option, but they didn't make them submit a survey either.

But I'm saying here that the survey violates section 34 because section 30 or section 324 because it says prior to erecting a fence, you have to have a site survey.

But yet here, the city has adopted through the zoning a survey waiter forms with out of zoning compliance.

You don't have an ordinance that allows that.

So either you do have it or you don't have it.

So then the next page is my correspondence to the city manager, and then the next page is the permits inspections notice, and I I blocked out the the owner's name because I didn't think that was fair to them.

But because the city had cited this before I even brought it their attention, but it says basically the fence was already erected, and it says cease and desist with the fence installation and necessary permits that can be requested and reviewed.

And then it also says that you have to obtain a zoning clearance uh through the zoning office.

Well, they got a permit on 520, okay, but below it is a zoning compliance permit, with butch was not, which was not issued until this year, 520 thing, two years later to the date.

And that one says that were the finished fence, four-foot fence with 50 percent visibility in the front and the perimeter.

Well, this is a uh yard that has a corner lot, and it requires site visibility.

So a property at two Rogers Place, we brought it to the city, and the city made them take the fence down.

This one they've allowed it to stay, even though the city's been aware of it three different times, twice that I've spoken with with zoning on it.

And and the next one, it's it says on 40.2218, which is the next page that says site visibility.

Corner lots shall preserve areas necessary for corner visibility by limiting fencer heights to the maximum of three feet above grade.

Not four foot that the compliance said, but three foot.

And it says all other obstructions between three and ten feet of the established grades, and that that comes through the Department of Transportation because the Department of Transportation has established that site line is at three and a half feet, and that people in cars have to see in front of them to two feet below that.

But they allow three feet based upon this and other things.

But like I said, so we we talked about site visibility.

There's also what's called site distance visibility, which that is when you're at an intersection, and if I turn to the left, ten feet from the eastment back has to be clear so I can see traffic at a certain miles per hour, and that distance increases by the speed limit on the road.

So the higher higher the speed limit, the more distance I have to be able to see to see that down there.

And unfortunately, the city is not compliant with that at all.

Okay, and I've started to address that in some issues to see click fix.

But on this one property, you're setting a precedent if you allow them to have it, okay?

And I've already brought it to city council through emails and to zoning through C click fix, and now I show you how it's relevant with the code, and it doesn't meet the code.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Councilman Hugo, sir, you have the floor.

Yeah, thanks, Mr.

Mayor.

Uh, thanks, Mr.

House, for your passion.

I apologize for not emailing you back.

I did read your email.

I sent it to the city manager for to look into the concerns that you addressed.

Uh I guess we'll count this as number two or five for September.

Okay, then we'll just push it off to October.

Your choice.

You're aware of it.

We are thank you, sir.

Next speaker, Coleman Young.

Sir, if you come forward, state your name and address, you have five minutes.

Good evening, Mr.

Coleman Young.

I live on uh Dinwiddie Street.

Um thank you, Mr.

Mayor, the Vice Mayor, members of council.

But uh what I want awfully sorry to hear about the passing of Mr.

Williams.

Matter of fact, I go all the way back to 1957 when I at the time I didn't know him, but he he played football for UVA against Army.

Um what I wanted to mention was I am very excited and inspired by seeing the work session last night, seeing what uh possibilities and and opportunities are available for the city on the five parcels of land that uh will bring a lot of prosperity and energy to this city.

I was very much inspired by you, uh Mr.

Glover.

That your your talk, you could tell tell us coming from the heart that this city that and the the question is we're not gonna think small anymore, we're gonna think big, we're gonna move forward.

Uh I've been uh observing the council for 50 years.

I think this is the first council with mayor and city manager that we can accomplish some great things.

Uh, and uh ended the one one aspect, and unfortunately the bad part sometimes the politics that the wagon train will go for the dog put bark, but the wagon train will keep moving forward.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, sir.

We appreciate that.

Our last speaker for the evening is Miss Sheila Joseph.

Ma'am, if you would come forward, state your name and address.

You will have five minutes.

Thank you for allowing me to be the last speaker, it seems like every time.

Um 39 Grand Street, Porson, Virginia.

I'll be trying to figure out how I can stop being the last speaker, but it's okay.

Um I just wanted to do one thing real quick, and then I'll say this.

I'm gonna pray for God to touch everybody in this city to come under one accord about different issues that we have in our city.

Number one, I talked about the water bill, and I'm back, and I got the new water bill system been approved and put in place June the 23rd.

Okay.

It took me 35 years to get a new billing system.

And I thank God for it, but it's still an issue, and when it starts messing with my credibility of paying bills, I'm gonna keep on talking.

I know Mr.

Carter and Ms.

Ms.

Stokes requested for me to do certain things, but I noticed when I was doing it, that nobody would be in detail of my letter that I asked for to Mr.

Carter.

And I'm explaining what I mean by detail.

I said when you use this new um billing system, please be detailed on what the people pay, when it's due, the billing period, and how much.

And when they pay, when y'all post our payments.

Well, that haven't happened yet.

And what's going on?

You hear over and over me saying that I pay my bills in advance.

If it's due on the 9th, I know I get it.

And my husband makes sure that I take care of the bills, because all he do is stroke the check, and I come in and pay the bill.

Sometimes when he gives it to me, he might be going out of town and he might forget.

But all my bills that I pay in this city, utilities or whatever, is paid on time or before.

We don't beg nobody for nothing.

We do what we can, my son and I to help others, but at the same time, we trust God for everything.

And I want to say that God got his protection on me about many things in this city that y'all don't even know what I'm going through.

But that water bill, I feel that when people make mistakes because they use the computer, the computer don't program and set dates of what is due.

So I need someone to take the time and address my issue and many other people issues that have been talking to me.

Well, when we write a check to pay our bills in this city, I feel that every company should have a record of our check numbers and how much we pay.

And I just wanted to say when it's posted, all I do is come across the street.

And be confusing.

All I ask, if you make a bill, make when in that bill, design.

My son does designs.

That's how I know what I'm talking about.

If it ain't right, I ain't gonna let him put it out.

And all I ask is the due date, the money amount, and the billing period that's crossed the old top.

And so I'm gonna use, I don't know if y'all are aware of that.

I come to pay a bill if I can finish this.

And they didn't even have finish that train of thought, please.

They didn't even have a bill to print.

I had to go downstairs and get an old bill that they told me they didn't no longer have the old bill.

So it's a conflict with me saying, stay in my grounds because how can I take an old bill which I did.

Miss Joseph.

I got you.

I took that old bill and pay my bill.

But when you still have a billing system problem, I feel that the current bills should be paid, and the problem that you got questioned about between me and the water company and anybody else in this city should find documents out of their system.

Thank you, ma'am.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, thanks for mayor.

Happy birthday, Luanna.

So so I hope you ain't won no more loss on my who what I was gonna speak on.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

But but that concludes our meeting uh for tonight.

I want to wish everyone in the audience and and all of my colleagues a safe and enjoyable.

I believe it's Labor Day.

Enjoy your holiday, folks.

Thank you.

This meeting is adjourned,