And not bad.

Good evening.

I'd like to call the next committee, special committee on health opportunity, prosperity, and education, known as hope to order for Wednesday, September seventeenth, two thousand and twenty-five.

We have a colour.

No, this is a major investment will be West Band South Side, and that comes with a responsibility to ensure that our residents will be informed and included in a new school.

And the new school must be more than just the building, it has to be the foundation built on choice.

Um I know that the resolution is quite long.

But uh, I do want to have another record if we remind members.

Whereas the Providence City Council has a duty to see that school construction projects place children first, ensuring that every new building strengthens learning and honors the trust of the community.

And whereas the planned merger of Gilbert Stewart and Alfred Lima into a new pre-K through eighth grade dual language academy may offer an opportunity to reimagine learning on the Elmwood South Side, expanding access to bilingual education while providing families with a high quality facility that meets 21st century learning needs.

And whereas, at the same time, the Gilbert Stewart building holds deep historical and cultural meaning for the surrounding community, and the council affirms that preserving architectural legacy, wherever feasible must remain a priority in any redevelopment.

And whereas Council President Pro Tempore Juan M.

Pacharda at the inception of this project dating back to 2023 requested that one, the PPSD and city engage residents in a meaning meaningful way, the desires for the school into the planning process, and two, that planning incorporate an analysis of the feasibility of preserving and incorporating elements of the existing architecture into the design of the new school.

And whereas it appears that all members of the school planning committee may not have been provided with these same items that we have requested to enable analysis, deliberation, and decision making to determine if the proposed course of action constitutes the best use of funds for this project, and hindering the ability of the public and city council to closely follow the project and provide informed and timely input.

And whereas, following an August 14, 2025 community meeting on the South Side, in which a commitment was made to provide the analysis by three architect firms, supporting the determination that no portion of the existing school's architecture could be preserved and incorporated into the new school design, the council and the community members to which it was promised has not been received as of the granting of this resolution.

And whereas Council President Pro Temp 4 Juan M.

Pachardo by letter dated August 20th, 2025, formally requested from city administration specific documents and clarifications relating to the planned demolition and reconstruction at the Gilbert Stewart School site, including but not limited to preservation cost analysis, demolition and abatement plans, project controls, comparative assessments, design schedules, and historic preservation approvals.

And whereas, despite these repeated requests, only a limited portion of the requested materials has been provided.

And the administration has instead relied primarily primarily on verbal assurances rather than the clear written documentation for council oversight and public confidence.

And whereas time is of the essence to receive this documentation to ensure sufficient time for oversight input and enable the city to receive the maximum reimbursement from the state allowable.

And whereas this lack of timely and incomplete responses has raised significant concerns among constituents, community stakeholders, and members of the council regarding whether due diligence has been exercised and whether this project represents the best possible use of public funds.

And whereas the proposed plan of action by the administration and project manager would demolish the existing structure before a final design is completed and accepted, and a reliable cost estimate is completed based on that proposed final design in order to ensure that the new design would fit within the budget available for this project.

Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Providence City Council calls upon the city administration and its partners to promptly provide all outstanding documents and clarifications relating to the Gilbert Stewart Alfred Lima School Project to the City Council Office of Project Management and to all members of the school building committee in order to ensure meaningful review by both the council and the community.

And be it further resolved that the council calls upon the administration to halt all demolition activities at the Gilbert Stewart site, with the exception of remediation of materials and pest control activities, so long as they will not in any way damage the structural integrity of the building until such review has taken place.

So the project moves forward with public confidence and a clear commitment to delivering a school worthy of its students and the neighborhood.

And be it further resolved that should the administration believe that the halting of all demolition activities at the Gilbert Stewart site as described above could not be done without jeopardizing the maximum reimbursement rate from the state for this project.

It shall immediately present evidence of this in a public hearing and to request an amendment to this order.

Such hearing must include evidence that the city is in compliance with all state laws and regulations regarding filing and notifications to all to all requisite state entities, including but not limited to provide RIDOH, RIDE EM, and the Rhode Island Historic Preservation and Heritage Commission.

And be it further resolved that the city council calls upon the administration to provide the documentation and answers previously requested by President Pro Tempore Juan M.

Pichardo as summarized in its letter dated August 20th, 2025 to ensure sufficient time for oversight and input and to not jeopardize the city's ability to receive the maximum reimbursement from the state allowable for this project.

And upon passage, a copy of this resolution be sent to Mayor Brett Smiley, Courtney Hawkins, COO, Javier Montañas, Superintendent of PPSD, Zachary Scott, PPSD, Deputy Superintendent of Operations, Angelica Infante Green, RI Commissioner, Drew Eccleson, RI deputy commissioner for systems transformation, Joseph DeSantis, Director of Program Management, Downs Construction and Providence School Building Committee.

Thank you, Lord.

Thank you.

I also want to say that the merger of the school, Gilbert Stewart in Lima, transforming into a pre-K to language school has the potential to provide a modern 21st century learning facility.

This project is sound that we have financial financial investment to our city.

And through this process, I've discovered many flaws that I think that we need to talk to the committee and others to improve the process of providing documentation, the appropriate documentation, timely documentation for us to provide oversight and also decision making at the level of the city council, but also the community.

But also to hear about the project and the advantages and what has been the terms, the state uh reimbursement, which we uh fall into and um points that have uh been highlighted uh throughout this process.

Uh these benefits are important uh to the city, but they must not come at the expense of our community's voice and uh confidence and and also to make sure that the assurance um to this pathway represents the best use of funds.

Uh at the end it's um to build the confidence uh for our residents in our neighborhoods, but also um for us as decision makers.

I want to acknowledge the fact that uh we have uh we put the resolution in a lot of uh most of the information that's come forward from the BPSD and also uh the administration.

And uh today we're here just to hear from them some of that information that they provided and and that and provide some uh answers to the resolution.

Uh, but also um there were some other items that were still missing.

So some of that was about the design plans for the new building, uh, a schedule when those plans will be available and how the public will be able to give input, a detailed construction schedule once the demolition is complete.

And so at this time, we have uh a couple of people that uh are present to walk us through this process about the uh Gilbert Stewart School.

Um, and also as I've spoken to uh a couple of the members of the city council, we're all facing some challenges when it comes to getting uh information in a in an adequate time for us to make uh critical decisions.

I'd like to recognize um first uh the uh the chief of operating officer for the administration from the city of province, Courtney Hawkins, also from PTSD, the chief of operation, deputy superintendent of operations secretary Scott.

And I also um see Mario.

Um like topic.

This swear at the end of the right hands.

You swear in under penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Please state your names and titles for the record.

Courtney Hopkins.

Uh Zach Scott, he's superintendent, Margaret Chief Operations Officer.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um appreciate you being here, and also the colleagues that are here.

I know we've had uh several communications uh month, a month and a half also, uh, and especially uh several a couple of community meetings.

And uh so today is an opportunity to walk us through uh this project.

Um I know Courtney, Ms.

Hawkins uh is no strangers to this.

And so if you can just uh walk us through in the sense of uh the resolution, but also what has been uh some of the questions or concerns, and also suggestions that um you heard, but also in the community.

Sure.

Thank you.

Uh I'm gonna actually let Dr.

Carino run through the history of this because he's been around for all of it and has um the facts laid out.

I just wanted to start by acknowledging your point on request for information.

My understanding is we've submitted everything.

The design and schedule is pending because there's community engagement that needs to happen on the design of the new building.

This has been consistent with lots of our school buildings where we start demolition and work on community engagement.

Um, the scheduling of that meeting is actually pending their office program and waiting for dates for you and Councillor Taylor.

Um, if we don't get them, we'll proceed without that.

But our hope was that we can coordinate that together.

Um, we have proposed designs that we'd like to put in front of the communities, teachers, families, and neighbors to get feedback before that's all practiced.

Um so with that, I'll turn it over to Dr.

Clay and Hope Namaste, the history here.

Thanks.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chairman, members of the city council.

Um, Madam Chair, I'd like to submit this work.

Um, I agree that in general we should always strive for continuous improvements.

So I think every opportunity can be home, not just in process here, but in general.

So I think if there's things that we can do better, we will absolutely strive to do so.

I think we have several examples for other projects throughout the city, uh, one being the RFK project with Councillor Woman Peterson and uh Mr.

John Ryan, where like we can we keep tweaking and we keep learning, and I think those are being very successful.

And the hope with this project is that we will have the same outcome.

Um, I think it's useful just to start with some facts.

Some of these were meant to respond to the resolution just to help um perhaps answer any uncertainty or ambiguity that pertains with this project.

So these are merely facts.

These are grouped by local approvals, uh engagement opportunities, and then uh the last piece, which I think is critical, which is a direct response to the resolution is what would any financial implications me.

I think that was a direct um concern.

So as we go through just uh reminder, September 13th, 2023, two years ago almost to the day, the city council unanimously approved the new Gilbert Stewart project, the new A Semester and the Mount Pleasant Project attached.

So as we go through, just uh uh reminder, September 13th, 2023, two years ago almost to the day, the city council unanimously approved the new Gilbert Sewer project, the new A Semester and the Mount Pleasant Project attached, you will find the resolution as well as the front page of the stage two application.

Um, in this very room on May 29th, 2024, the contract is also approved for this project for a new Gilbert Sewer project.

The Providence School Building Committee has had since that time 20 meetings, uh, which include, and in each of the meetings, they send out correspondence, including presentations and visuals and plans uh to the listserv, which includes members of the city council, and Mr.

Kyle Del Galo is representative for the city council at those meetings.

There have been uh four on location meetings at Gilbert Store slash Lima, and I suspect this is one where we may want to have even more, and we welcome to have those.

We've had, I believe, 10 or 12 in Mount Pleasant.

We show up whenever possible.

Um, but there have been four meetings.

There have also been several district-wide meetings.

Uh, these meetings are shared with families, community members, and city council to attend the meetings.

We also provide regular updates on a website on Providence's site, which has all the presentations, the renderings, the plan writ large is available on the website.

As it pertains to the implications financially, and I think this is maybe where to spend some of the time, is that each of these projects, these major ones take about 22 months.

And we have, and we've talked about this before is we have swing space uh limitations here that we have about four or five swing spaces, meaning one project goes through, and then the other one has to wait for that one to finish for the to like it's a like a jigsaw puzzle.

The project behind this one, which will be directly in fact, is the Roger Williams project, in that if there are delays to this project, that one will not qualify for its bonuses.

22 months from today is June 30th, 2027.

So we do have like a tiny bit of logo room, but in order to qualify for the bonus per state law, you have to finish by June 30th of uh 2029.

So the goal is to get the max bonuses for all your projects.

Uh, but the timeline for that starts to become uh unachievable if there are delays in that process.

I think that's just something to consider.

Um, in terms of construction material escalation, it's about six percent per year is the average at the scale of this project.

We're looking about 400,000 a month in material delays, meaning if we were to buy something, you know, a year from now, it like the cost is is it just increases, meaning you either have to have a smaller building, use less materials, or go to taxpayers for more money to solve the project.

So timing is critical uh for this one.

Uh and lastly, and I think this is the one that has been mentioned by the city's architects.

They have done analysis, and I believe councilman, they will provide more of this documentation.

But after reviewing the structure of the facility with the district's goal and the goal for this building, is clear.

It's a dual language pre-K.

That is the desire of the district.

At the moment, the city has six pre-K's in construction.

Um, but in order to achieve this, working with the existing configuration is not feasible.

Um, and for those reasons, they uh the schedule has been proceeding.

This has been again, it's in two years in the making.

It's not something that just occurred over the past summer.

So uh just trying to document that as well as um itemize some of the uh expenditures.

The other than again, just to point out the city has spent 1.7 million on design of the existing building.

If that design was scrapped for whatever reason, and either the project doesn't advance or some other project, will ride only reimburses for completed projects.

So that wouldn't get the 91%.

So we designs have to end up with a completed project.

So that's just a summary of these fact sheets.

Suppose we can we can have a discussion on these before we enter uh other items that you may have questions on.

Yeah, um question goes.

Um yeah, just a quick and just for clarification.

You said um actually when she said that we're waiting on design implementation with community feedback.

So there is something that has been presented forward, but um RIDE has already approved this particular plan.

Is that how that works?

I'm just trying to figure out because you mentioned after that um right only reimburses that completed project.

So I just want to make sure that something hasn't already been approved without the community engagement.

Great question.

So there's a multi-stage process to get reimbursement.

So the the what's known as a stage one and stage two, just identifying the need and then coming up with the solutions you need.

That's just the planning exercise.

So the first two stages, right?

The district and the city did a plan, and the solution for this application was these three projects.

So at least that part has been approved, which guarantees that you're going to get stayed as long as you comply with the school construction regulations.

The next piece, which is known as stage three, is to get the design approved.

What we do at Ride is we make sure that the plans that are submitted comply with the regulations, that they're using materials that are going to be there for 50 years, it's energy efficient.

There's a whole list of criteria that need to be.

That project is currently in that design process.

And there's like three tiers to it.

I believe it's like in the X in the first tier into the second.

Um, but that's still ongoing.

Okay, thank you, Mary.

That clarification I appreciate.

Thank you.

Uh that's one sense.

Yes, I think it was a general.

Um I just have a quick question.

Um, who made this faction document?

Is this uh is this a ride document or I will say, I mean, we reviewed it collectively, so we all like that.

That was definitely, I mean, otherwise stay around, blah blah blah five.

So I just want to uh to say, and thank you for that timeline and uh you know um as we came on in 2023.

Um there's the I recall having one of the first meetings to talk about um the school, right?

Particularly when it came to um building uh Gibbs Stewart in Lima and after that conversation verbally, requesting that and recognizing that we the community needs a uh a newer school, but also we I requested in essence to um also take into consideration the how do we maintain uh Gibbs Stewart history, the architect and so forth, while also advocating and pushing forward for a moderate school for kids.

So my when in this time frame, and I we looking at some of the information that was provided to to us, and you reflect uh on how the assessment was done.

Um where it says, you know, a most important after multiple structure design and educational uh sustainability suitability evaluation, it is not possible to renovate the existing building into an ADA accessible functional dual language pre-k facility.

And the question has been is was a financial analysis done uh to um create that uh sort of facilities while maintaining some of those uh structures.

Can you walk us through?

Because I I just I got a a uh a memo from the work construction dated August 9th.

It's like since 2023 and then 2024, where even the school was closed a year earlier because of uh we needed to the as it was put forward from BPSD, we needed to save money.

Uh we saved during that time uh by closing the steward school a year earlier, I think it was 1.5 million dollars.

So was that uh analysis done um doing that time and why not?

And why now when the memo says August August 9th, I believe.

I'm not certain what memo you have, but I think we can absolutely answer those questions.

There's um in terms of they'll start with the Gilbert store name and uh legacy there, August 21st, uh Toronto Architects or the city's architects in response to the state historic preservation have uh committed to having uh written evidence to create a display in the new school that would honor the previous school on our Gilbert Stewart.

Um the city council has naming powers and can choose to name the building after Gilbert Stewart.

That would be a suggestion to ensure that the name continues.

Like I believe you've you've shared that as a priority, keeping the name for that.

That's absolutely in the control of the city council.

Um, in terms of costs, the the biggest challenge here is that this building historically was designed as a middle school, grade six state, which is different than the younger children.

Uh pre-K in particular, which requires bathrooms on every floor, first floor location, the younger kids need special exits than the older ones.

Challenges that didn't exist.

So, and in terms of a pure renovation, if it was going to stay a middle school, absolutely.

I believe the cost is like 52 million is the number that the architect gave.

If it were going to remain in middle school, uh the district has made a pivotal shift to have less middle schools for a variety of reasons, which we're happy to discuss.

But in this case, the architect determined that like to adding the bathrooms, the clusters of English and Spanish classrooms have to be together, the small nature of the rooms, it was not feasible to convert that building as is into the dual language pre-K.

Additionally, that building which was built, I believe, in 1930s is not ADA accessible, right?

It's very followed from the codes.

Some of the older buildings in Providence, if someone broke their leg or had a wheelchair, they just couldn't go to that school.

They were going somewhere else.

The idea here is to is to correct that.

Well, um, was the decision to demolish the entire building prior to um 2322?

Yes.

So then when the school building committee, which is comprised of members of the city, uh the city council, the school department and school board, members of the public.

Um starting, I want to say it was February of 23, began the stage one process for these.

They had discussions over several months.

They looked at several iterations, and the one that was selected in this one was the new Gilbert Store.

This is the package that was brought to the city council for approval, which included demolition of the new building.

Uh, but that occurred uh two and a half years ago.

That the initial thought process and then the approval locally came in September, and then the ride approval came in December of that year.

Um and I recognize the the uh resolution I know about that.

As we know, in essence, um what was presented to us on the committee, really good finance, and then on the floor.

Um but prior to 23, that uh suggestion or the discussion about the modulum in the school, and also uh just going with the pre-K to eight school was it done prior to 2023?

Yeah, so the pre-K thought process is even before that.

That was based on uh multiple community engagement sessions that uh we heard that's what families wanted was pre-K-8s, they wanted you had very few middle schools, and which requires kids to start being bus father, so they wanted more neighborhood schools.

The reason and the way to achieve that is through the pre-K model.

It also they do better academically.

That is separate.

So that started in early 2022.

Um, as you know, this plan has changed over time via the availability of additional bonds that the city council and voters approved.

There have been four bonds since 2018.

So the plan every two years, additional projects are able to be considered.

So prior to it would have been the November of 2022 vote, there was no plans for either of those three projects because there were no resources to make these projects a reality.

When voters approved the bond in November of 2022, that's immediately within three months.

Uh, Providence had submitted a stage one application to begin that thought process in the building committee, uh, which is comprised of a multitude of stakeholders, were the ones who came up with the final list, which was then approved locally and then approved by the state.

Any other so um another question as uh one of the things that is missing here that I think you referenced it?

Where's the work of the three architects of the Alpha was rough in terms of design?

Yeah, so we can submit uh we see your packet work from two of the three architects um that participated in different design uh iterations over time.

So I don't think we do have this in terms of uh the design.

So and so were the three that three, the two that was submitted.

What happened to the third one?

Uh that's just a preliminary analysis, my understanding, or in stage one.

This is before my high.

Um, but the two more recent uh analysis, Taran was the current architect.

Um, and I think maybe Terra summarized it all together in the medal for you.

Um, but I'll note that like all of that analysis take there's been a lot of pressure for a lot of detailed analysis on the does the school fit in this building.

All that analysis costs money that would not be reimbursable because it is not required by ride.

The analysis that was required was done, and that's why the application got approved.

Additional analysis would be the city would have to pay for an outpack.

Um, from our perspective, the question has been asked and answered.

Um, although I know people would like us to do you know several more rounds.

I think Dr.

Grana just explained that it is not a complicated exercise to understand that a pre-K8 doesn't fit in that building.

And so two of we've provided the details, I think, of two of the three architects.

And we certainly understand, and even moving to the process of uh what we understood about keep moving the process of the uh pre-K to eight uh in front of our uh committees, which at times um it's it's one of those things that we're not provided with all the details.

Um at the at the time of and I do record and I recognize that uh Scobs here uh one point, I believe, in one of the discussion about the schools in phase two, I believe, um in finance, I believe.

And so um understanding that at times when we hear demolition, um and going through that conversation and asking all right, we will get a new school, but can you incorporate um some of the structure uh is there some cost analysis?

Uh, how can we determine uh the savings cost um prior to the uh demo demolition a an entire building and then realize that we could have saved some money?

What I'm hearing is that we didn't go through that analysis uh prior to August, uh prior to August.

That's not true, and because it required additional funding, because it also wasn't a reimbursement because you have three firms, but they they never really took it to those um into consideration in terms of the full analysis.

It was just more of it's gonna be costly because it's historical building and so forth.

No, so they I think what she talk is to do new studies now that are not already created real costly.

There is as part of stage two, and we require us in every project to do a cost effectiveness analysis.

In some cases, for the city of Providence, Nathan Bishop, North Vicky Learning Center, uh, it is more cost effective to reuse the existing building.

That's not always the case.

If we look at Swasiano, it was torn down.

If we look at these words, like so that calculation has been made.

What makes this one more complex is that it's not an apples to apples comparison.

If it were a straight middle school to middle school, it likely would have been more cost effective to do to renovate and keep it as a middle school.

However, that's not the priority of the district.

In fact, you have seven or eight people needs being built at the moment.

Um, and to have the younger kids there and offer the dual language, which is a priority, that building itself doesn't work for that.

If I could give one example from um and Mr.

DeSantis on here who's described this before, but for those of you you certainly know Gilbert Steward is uh above uh big five stairs again in the building, you cannot by code have pre-K in that space uh exiting out from that building, uh, nor would we really want any kindergartners there.

So to actually fit the pre-pay uh pre-K on that site, you have to add another wing outside of the building, uh, and doing that on that parcel is not is not feasible.

So I think that was some of the that's one of the practical examples of how the site wasn't induced to a pre-K beyond the interior not being ADA accessible that you actually couldn't fit the program with the pre-K on that site, given the that the school is above above grade.

How many students are expected to be in this school?

Uh it's I believe 900 or so, so it's like 400 uh 100 per grade.

It's interesting.

Um because of what you had said about it not being able to be, and I think maybe what you're referring to is the way that the school is designed right now and not being able to be easily accessible, it wouldn't be able to be pre-K through eight as is um just in comparison to the Kennedy footprint.

It's Kennedy significantly smaller, but yeah, can we get a thousand feet bigger than Kennedy?

Yeah, and Kennedy's three three classes per grade and four of the middle school is for all the way up.

I was just curious to see the numbers because it um I know that Kennedy's potentially going to be about 800 once it's all done.

Um just the the footprints are vastly different at all.

Thanks.

Both have complicated property lines.

Yes.

Yeah.

So um so when will the final design be letting people review and would community what's the plan for community and good, I mean meaningful community engagement.

We have a proposed a series of you know designs to show people, and we are ready to have that meeting because in our office to provide us some dates when we know I want to speak out of turn, but there have been some preliminary designs that we review with the faculty.

We the principal re actually reviewed at the meeting we had at uh library.

Well, those aren't the final ones, I was to get people uh early science the interior space.

So it's not that we've had enough several meetings already where the processing designs aren't those more designable the space inside are going to be designed versus also the design.

We can show you both because we meant yeah, yeah, where we start, right?

Is what we want to show people here.

The learning spaces here's what we're designing for, and then before you're submitting both inside and outside, but where we start typically needs to show the inside building because that's the most critical we want to nothing has been submitted to RIE for approval because we are pending engagement for further feedback on the design.

And Mr.

Chairman, for all these which have redesigns, schematic design, design development, and 60% construction documents.

All of these first go to the building committee, the public meeting are shown, they're sent out to the listserv, and then they're approved by the committee before they are even sent to Right.

So there are multiple opportunities.

You have all three of them, you have the estimated cost of all these designs.

We don't have all three.

We we're working on schematic designs, which is the first step, and that will include an estimated cost.

There's an approved MOA for this building.

Um it needs to fall in that budget, but you know, part of the process is to align the design with the budget and make sure that we're consistent.

Um and that's one of the things that uh that was missing in the uh the request of because we're waiting for we're waiting to do community engagement, which we were waiting for you to leave and all the students.

We can move without you on that.

Um the next step before we before we submitted anything was to do community engagement with you on that topic.

Well, I think uh as you indicate, waiting for me, but we've had already a couple of meetings in the community uh and the opportunity to present uh to the community some design.

So at least I mean, even in the meetings that we've had, uh uh uh what is it uh um September 12th and and uh believe it was uh September 9th, that we had an opportunity, and I know that people were not in favor, they had a lot of concerns.

Um at least by the second one, we didn't get that information.

So as far as engaging just to clarify for that session meeting, there was no request made to me about what they wanted in that presentation.

If you had asked us to bring information about the new design, I would have sort of had done that because that's to show off and talk about the demolition of the building, which we did in the previous one.

The architect actually did present to the group, most of the group was focused on the demolition, but we did present uh design there, and the one person there who had a child who was potentially going to the school actually provided meaningful feedback, which we've incorporated as we've continued to work on the design to get everything everybody in that we just want to.

Excuse me, uh I think this and this is just me, meeting me.

This seems to be like a playful, yeah.

Um where we're having these meetings, and we get some of the information and not all.

We ask for certain things and we never get it, or if we do get it, um, and we say this is not what we want it, and you're they're the well, they're working on the design and working on the design and working on the design until well, if we don't get it out now, it's gonna be too late and we're gonna lose the money type thing.

So um I think half we've done this a few times.

We shouldn't have to keep asking for the same thing.

All of us seem to be going through the same thing with you guys.

You know what we want, you know what we need, you know what the community wants.

The biggest thing that people that we should be making happy should be the community, and if the community is not getting the all the information, we're not getting all the information, then that makes everybody frustrated.

Um and then it looks like we're attacking, we're not attacking what we're saying is get us what we need so that we can give them the information.

I went through this for all well over a year.

Matter of fact, before I even went into office, Kat was going through the same situation over certain things.

It wasn't the exact same issue, but we asked for this designs for years, and when I finally said, okay, I had enough, you guys have to come, everybody come.

I want you all in the same room at the same time because everybody's playing games.

This one's pointing the finger at you because you're not here.

This was pointing at you because you're not there, you know.

Then we get in the same room and they come back with the same design that I had said no to in the first place, but the community had said we don't want this.

And it was like, oh, well, then we'll we'll come up with something.

And in a week or two weeks, they didn't.

It just kept on going and going until it was like enough is enough.

We're done.

I don't think you can keep doing this because there's no good faith here.

It doesn't feel like there's any good faith coming to us, and it doesn't feel like it to the community, and it doesn't feel like it to us.

And if everybody's going through the same thing, then we just need to figure out a way to get this done.

We have to do it right.

There shouldn't be, we shouldn't be sitting here talking.

I mean, this is a playbook.

I went through the same things for my thing.

All these things are the stuff, you know, we didn't we had community meetings, the stuff wasn't done.

We requested and and everything did.

Um, we've had meetings, and you know, Kyle sits on your thing and and he does a good job.

I'm not saying you guys don't do it, but you're not doing a good job in delivering the information to us and timing.

You're not doing a good job and letting us know the answers to the questions that we're giving you, not talking around it, not saying we'll get back to you, not saying, Well, I didn't know that's what you really wanted, you know, giving give us the things, and if you not sure, bring more.

I'd rather for you to bring more information than say, I didn't, oh, I didn't know that's the information that you want.

I I take that feedback.

We will try to be better.

I will say, in particular, on this project, I was surprised at the shock about the demolition of the building, because the demolition of the building had been clearly articulated in our lines on multiple occasions in hearings with council, but we it says it in the stage two that was approved and supported by counselor.

So when people said, What do you mean we're demolishing the building?

Honestly, I said, What do you mean?

What do I mean?

Mikey, as long as I've been involved in this, this has been a conversation.

So somehow that point was missed, and you know, we know that now, and so it feels like we're catching up, but it is clear in everything that that was what we were doing at that site, different than like talking about how something like the stage two, for example, for Kazari.

It didn't have a design, and so the back and forth you experience was part of the process, but that wasn't ever something you had seen, right?

This everything that has come before the council, the school building committee, and everyone else has said this building is being demolished.

So we are where we are now.

Um, like we have to work together to engage folks on this.

There, we have examples of projects where the community has been engaged through the whole time, and it is always in partnership with the counselor, so we're getting the help doing that.

It is where we are most successful, and everyone on the team will do that all the time.

If we have the opportunity to I'm sorry, this one's a little bit this um, I hope we're all being um really listening to the community too.

Because sometimes we don't hear everything that they're saying.

So I'm I'm just I'm just concerned that sometimes they get shadowed or feel like they're being shattered.

Oh, no, no, no, no.

Yeah, you know, and and and and and and that's like I said, that's not a quote at anybody.

I'm just saying all sitting around this standard really happening.

And something that is particularly challenging is now in our last community meeting, we have a number of educators from the Lehman School there begging, please build us this.

Please don't try to shoot on us.

Please make this the moment.

And so there has been a substantial amount of engagement with the school that community there.

They all want us, and so um it is difficult when there's not agreement across different community groups to determine, and that's where the counselor can really be helpful in helping us navigate that.

But there are voices who are saying please don't delay this because we are desperate to get in this new building and you're going to build this.

I actually just had a quick question, and I apologize that we might have it in I don't, but I focus that I focus in on my the building might be more than um the demolition is scheduled for when it should start the oh so this is one of the things that just to be clear, and as you indicated, yeah, we've heard uh the demolition and the bass resolution and the information that been quick a little bit challenge, even when we when we talked about can you provide us this information?

It was just trickling in all that information should have been available right away.

And we wanted to include the community, the meaningful community engagement, not just only coming from me from a city council, but just you just mentioned you.

I know uh uh Sach Scott and DPSD perhaps uh presented in the schools to the teachers.

But what about the rest of the communities, right?

Um you like you had indicated there are some pockets of people that are have not in agreement with certain things.

I from the beginning had said, look, we need a new school, but can you incorporate uh some of the structure, some of the history of uh give restore?

And that's been always from my position since I've uh I was elected here.

Now one thing that we realize, and I realize that too, that shouldn't put that in writing more so when we talk about demolition, especially in the last couple of months, it is that definition of demolition, right?

When people, when you hear demolition, well, the the wrecking ball is coming next day.

The targeted date continues continue to move.

At one point it was like August 9th.

Oh no, we're gonna we're gonna uh start the demolition on the ninth.

And so, but again, how people hear things and how uh we interpret it now the information is provided and so forth, the the demolition.

Can you just explain it uh for on the record in a sense what does this week was the second part of the demolition?

There are other the phases in demolition.

The abatement of the building started, which is the first phase that you talked about, the taking down of the building will begin imminently.

There are a few things that have to happen as it relates to turning off the electricity and other utilities.

Um once those are completed, uh the permit will be issued and the building will start to come in.

So uh one of the the what the permits are issuing and when it goes like so as the utilities are shut up, right?

So is that in another part of the plan that you submitted to us?

Yes, and the and the community engagement.

Can you speak to more on that in terms of I mean we've outlined the community engagement that was done?

That is the community engagement that will be done regarding the demolition because the question about can we fit a pre-kata aid in this building has been answered.

We have to start demolition while we're doing that, we can then finalize the designs, which is consistent with what we've done at Cazarian at Kennedy at other schools.

We start the work of demoing the building because we know the building has to come down while we're finalizing the new designs with um and if we don't start demolition now, we will not open this school in 2027, which means we will have to look at all the other school construction and decide what's not getting done because we will not be able to hit our budget.

Part of the um preserving, as you also indicated, uh some of the history and your plan of engagement in the community, which uh some people have to uh stated in terms of keeping some of the architecture because can't that in this wanted the school to pretty much um uh not be not be destroyed.

Can you speak uh on that in terms of um what we've seen in other schools like more planes and all the thing of Nathan Green, where people have the opportunity, not just only myself, but just people that actually know about preserving a history of a school?

Can you speak to to that plan going forward with the community engagement besides what we have, but also from the from the perspective of engaging other members besides the teachers and so forth?

Uh I don't think there are lands related to the any further preservation efforts.

The team is working to like take assets from the building that could be saved and utilized in the future building.

Um they've also documented the building, which is typically the requirement or the request of the historic preservationist office is to thoroughly document the building.

All of that has was done prior to and is that available on a listserv or um where are they going to be storing uh the these that is for discussion?

We can talk about how that gets done.

The work has been done, it's all been documented where we where that lives in the future is for discussion.

So it's uh as it goes.

But we're open to suggestions.

I haven't contemplated that.

See, those are the kind of things that when we ask the question, then we got to come up with the answer.

I don't mean I don't know.

And I guess the very much the answer, but I just it's one of those things that this process of uh uh that we're going through is to ask the question so that people can really think through about these projects in the communities.

Some could some projects are much easier.

Uh that uh the the school was uh was pretty much the wrecking bolt came pretty quick.

Different communities are different, right?

You sort of in the Montpleasant area, you sort of make them green, the AFK.

I don't know uh as much uh uh how uh I I know a little bit, but what was that pushback and what is the what was the plan?

That one there pretty much is gonna go destroy, right?

I mean, could they yeah, it's a full development, but um demolition?

It's a little bit of a different scenario.

The the footprint requires the full on, and the families were extremely extremely and the teachers and um they were very much invested in seeing something new there.

Um so like we the community engagement that we didn't um the fight can just many of these people into meetings very often because um as you do, we have all these people to um respond to and Zach and the people that have come through for PPSC um as many times as I've brought them in, they have answered all of the questions, and new neighbors come to new meetings and um PTO meetings and all these things.

There's so many different layers of um engagement that at Kennedy they do and they have had um, and I'm very appreciative of it, but I do understand um where you're coming from in terms of being able to just make sure that we have certain things addressed before we move forward.

Um, I I can understand and certainly empathize with that.

We um in my last community meeting, we asked about what the demolition plan would look like um because the neighbors, the community neighbors wanted to understand what that looked like there, and and that's probably uh you know a bigger piece right now where neighbors are like, Well, how are you going to protect us from all of the you know the dust and all those things that are coming through?

And so they've had a really good um a robust conversation with the neighbors that were at the meeting.

And and those are similar concerns and questions that we've asked over time.

Um and in the last meeting, there was some discussion on that.

I know that uh when I speak to Jose in the corner of Princeton Street, he has not received information regarding pest control, right?

People talk about the mitigation and remediation of the inside of the building, but we've asked a vast uh a more thorough and complete plan now at least you know two blocks away.

Because you know when we destroy these type of buildings, um the uninvited guests start flocking throughout the neighborhood, and that wasn't provided at the last meeting.

So what is the plan?

What is the provided you in the package of materials information about environmental controls and pest controls?

If you have specific specific constituents you want us to reach out to, I'm happy to provide those to them as well, and we can cover that in the next meeting we have also.

So but the demolition is scheduled already for this week.

So it's uh so who's the point person that is gonna um and advice this in a sense besides you, besides Mr.

DeSantis, and it's gonna work with a community because I think that's where the the missing link has been.

There's a and this is one of the reasons why a resolution was put that intense because of that information was not being coming forward, um, and just slow walk in this process.

And uh, so I just want to uh hear from you when it says is there a person that is gonna do the work that's gonna initiate a direct contact with with us in the community, and and this person is gonna be the person that's gonna uh walk the neighborhood, the neighbors, and also this project in terms of community engagement.

Yes, who's a design?

A one person from the construction company assigned to this um who can do whatever it is that needs to happen in terms of community engagement.

If you would like us to move ahead with that without you, I'm happy to do that.

If you would like to do it with us, we're also happy to do that.

Well, I think that uh the writings on the wall that have been on this, and this is one of the reasons that I asked, because there's been that missing.

But who is that person?

I don't I'll have to I don't know the name, I'll have to give it to you.

But I uh you know my request for meeting dates where you're available to do community engagement has been pending the council office for a week.

So I hear what you're saying.

You're saying you don't do this without me, I want to do it.

But then if I don't have if I can't schedule it with you, we can't do that.

And this is not the first time this has happened.

So councilwoman Peterson just highlighted like anytime you want people there, everyone will show up.

You tell us.

I mean, we got 36 hours notice for this meeting, and we are all here.

So if you would like to schedule the time that works for your community to hear about whatever the issue is, you tell us when that is and we'll be there.

If you would like us to go ahead with that, we can schedule it.

And if you can make it, then we can also do that.

But we are ready to provide that information, we're already getting, you know.

I believe the person who's in charge of the site was at the first community meeting, he can be back for the next one.

Your constituents will have a person to contact on a daily basis if they have concerns about what's happening there.

We've also provided the information.

James Moore attended the first community meeting because he can also be a resource for if they're not getting what they're they need as already.

Yeah.

So this is actually directly to you.

Um are you looking to potentially try and hold off the demolition until the community movement is done?

Is that what you're meaning?

No, no, at this at this time, you know, after getting all the information and evaluating and seeing what we have, you know.

We got I value enough uh feedback from the community, and I know what from the beginning what I wanted, right?

They're not they weren't provided, in essence, in terms of taking in consideration the historical uh components of the Gilbert School school.

There's so as far as uh scheduling meeting back and forth, and it's about uh scheduling between staff and and all of us at BPSD, that's where it always lied and dates that I provided to you.

So we're not gonna get into this, but you can't just put it on me in essence that this is all I want.

Yes, I want the best school for the for the district.

Yes, I want the best engagement for the community, yes, I want the voices to be heard, but at the when we've taught, it's about these meetings that we have to put together, and then I go out and even in the community try to get members from the community.

Most of the time, people that we hear from are those who are the practitioners, right?

That uh that are passionate and care enough because they care of something in particular, whether it's historical, whether it's their kids, whether it's the teachers.

Last time it was the teachers, somewhere along the line, someone rally uh the teachers and principals, and they were there.

Of course, they're gonna say, and we're all right, and we have the common ground to have the best school in in that site.

And so what I say to you is that finally, if you have a person that we engage instead of you or directly, because we're you're a high end, high level of priority, and to schedule meetings with the with your in the details of it, that's where we get lost in, and then it feels that we have to put community meetings a week before, three days before, and we feel that it's the last minute.

And so what I going forward, if my colleagues uh uh hold up their questions from now, I would ask one is that is it's not clear whether what is that demolition if the wrecking board is going to be there this week.

I ask give us at least two October 4th.

One to engage more of the community to put a tree a group of people that can go into the building and do a walkthrough, just like they've done with other schools.

The other is let's talk about where these things are gonna be uh uh uh stored.

How we what is the plan to engage the community to build on that story?

Are you committed to doing something like that?

Yes, is that for everybody?

Yeah, and that's actually outlined in the architect's letter, uh August 21st, historic preservation.

The idea is to document the written history, whatever artifacts that can be preserved, and actually in the school have an area to acknowledge the history of the building of the history of builders.

It's written in writing already, August 21st from LA to Resident.

Right, and I saw that, but have you schedule that?

Because again, I want to make sure what is the definition of demolition.

When is the wrecking ball gonna go?

Because from the beginning, I yes, we knew about the uh demolition, and I've had this conversation on the side.

All right, we're gonna go with the demolition, but can you what is the process of looking at the historical component?

What what what is the plan?

No one has the plan, so let's come up with that more so.

And and so I thought there was a I I was included on an email Jane of a walkthrough with yourself and other people and next week or so to review the interior of the building.

Is that it was uh uh today that was sent out yesterday.

It was it was for today.

I don't know that anybody go.

Yes, was the historical people went there too?

Uh the preservation uh society.

I don't think they were they invited.

I don't think so.

Again, I don't know who's been putting our team was there, my team's there.

And meaning your team meaning the John or two meeting from the properties, no one from other community was there, any additional person.

So this is the first time I'm hearing from you that we would like to do that.

So no, they were not judged.

So you're committed to at least let's put something together in a sense that people vote.

That's all there is.

Who is the team and why can't you?

Because we can't we can't waste any more time.

That it's not a waste of time, it doesn't stop in that the that also was is requesting is this is something that the community is requesting, it's not a waste of time.

If you can't tell me that a week, yeah, two weeks or three weeks is gonna really jeopardize this 27.

This um this time of I can tell you that though, not really, because we know we know that there's always things that come up in in any type of buildings and any type of demolitions, any type of of all these things.

So there's always gonna be something.

So this is one of the somethings.

So what why is it that you cannot wait for two weeks?

The council, the councilman is just requesting two weeks.

I'm happy to send this around, and I might be misreading this, but there was like you know the council representatives, representatives of public property about a walkthrough with councilman Picardo this started September 8th.

It was attempted to do on the along as well that didn't work.

That wasn't available.

Okay, yeah, but then one that was suggested to Kyle.

And yeah, and then they're trying to find it sounds like another time in the next day or you know, very soon because my first again, we've made the attempts, but it's it's not part of the plan where we can include other members, and also uh we've had the discussion, you know, with with our uh Halo who is the archive, and also members of the historical preservation society.

So it's not just only me.

I mean, I have an eye and so forth, but I'm not an expert on it.

I mean, I have an eye and so forth, but I'm not an expert on it, and so I want to develop a plan in the sense that we're on the table and we're going to do this, like we attempted, and the the dates have slowly been released, and at times we have to ensure whether we're here or we're not, or we're not available.

All I'm asking is now moving forward is that you're one you're dealing with uh uh with the preservation society, the letter that was sent out uh an answer to their question, and that's still in in question whether our question it's clear and to clarify it's the commission, not the society.

The society is a nonprofit, yes, it has nothing to do with this project.

The commission also only has advisory role in this, and we have complied with everything that is required as outlined in that letter, and as admitted to in our response.

So that's clear already because in the beginning it wasn't.

This is part of that process.

It's always been clear to me.

People have been spreading misinformation on this topic, but in my perspective from the first time we talked about this has been consistent because we evaluated it to be sure we were in compliance, and we are the work to put this building on the state on the historic registry was never done.

The building is not under their purview because it was not put on the register when is it that it's not going to be accessible to if that if it's possible to get people out there so that way we can outreach properly and the in closer members to go into that building, do a walkthrough by at least the fourth or the fifth of October.

And then also the plan for archiving all this stuff and the stories behind uh giverstool.

To clarify the documentation that I mentioned is video and um photographic documentation, so that's why I said there's an opportunity to discuss what we want to do with that in the future.

It all exists, and we can talk about when we do it.

I I will certainly provide you with an update on the status of the demolition start, and I will make sure you're in your office now before that happens.

I can almost I can tell you with almost an entire certainty that that will not wait till October 4th.

We are putting the design of this building and other buildings for kids in Providence above the other priorities.

And I know that that is dissatisfying for some groups, but it is the focus that we have.

And if we're gonna open a new school by 2027, we are already behind.

Uh, we cannot delay further.

Thank you.

Oh grace.

Okay.

So we are all in agreement that we want the best schools for uh our kids, particularly even in that neighborhood, and that has been my argument from the beginning.

And if it wasn't because of these these conversations, the resolutions and getting and getting the documentation, and how it's been um tripled in um is been a challenge, but putting that aside, we want to make sure that going forward, even with the design that now you say that you have it, we've asked for it prior to, and now we have that you also indicate that we want to engage the community before deciding a design on the on the building.

So I look at it from a two two-pronged approach.

One is one that we know more clearly in a sense that this going forward without any delay, and yes, I wanted to halt.

I want to delay it to have more of an input from the community.

But I'm asking again to figure that out so that way we can do it intentionally with some other people, not just only myself and and province.

Um, and so the other is that that point person that you just mentioned, who's gonna be that person uh to engage all of us in the community and the design of the of the building.

Teachers know how to and educators know uh the design in interior.

And then lastly, I just hope that uh you know, going through this this uh this hearing, that you hear also how frustrating it has been for several of our comments.

This resolution or this hearing was not put forward because uh everything was was being uh delivered to us or for a process or plan that was thought out right from the beginning together, and I think that uh and my goal is to make sure that in the future as the administration of BPSD goes forward even right is to really engage a community that's with a plan, a plan of intentional community engagement.

What does it mean?

And work with not only with me but with others in in uh in the neighborhood.

So and um, yes, uh thank you very much.

Do you have any anything else you want?

So I just want to make sure just before we uh this in the public level.

Um we clear this of what was the next step, at least you would like me to evaluate if there's another opportunity to get the and with that with the with community members and people that know whoever's starting you to historical size yes for that.

I will evaluate if that's possible.

I will also make sure that you're notified and update certain that the demolition will start.

It is not a wrecking law, but it is demolition.

Uh point person on I'm gonna send you we're gonna communicate both the point person on the design engagement to follow up on the request for meetings.

I will also make sure that you have the point person who's managing the site, those are two different people, construction site manager and the design engagement who will uh make sure, and we will take note of the feedback we got and continue to try to do better as we work with any parallel students.

Sorry, um and any uh members in the public that would like to uh make a brief two minute feedback or comments, two minutes if we can just go forward.

Yes, two minutes.

Oh, I think it's that's what this one we can do.

That is what any of that is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

That's right.

Please state your name for the right hand base.

Thank you.

Thank you, Rochelle.

I just want to point out some fundamental issues here that seemingly getting characterized as some sort of low-grade hysteria, lack of comprehension, you know, people are not smart or whatever.

Fundamentally, the decision to make this school not a middle school and through a case to a school, but on a campus that already has 89% of the facility, the fiscal assets, including the junkyard that the city owns with parts all over the place, fire trucks and police cars, somehow, none of those issues, none of those opportunities, a million dollar field across the street, a community red center, a community center, a southern pool.

I tell you this goes on.

But the bottom line is the issue.

I think for most people in community, at one point, the impression that we had, we talk about being doing this school because everybody wants a school, everybody all suffered because of the school department's failure to maintain their buildings.

And I can tell you about Gilbert Stewart because my nephew was the last class graduate as from Gilbert Stewart when Cole is still principal, and he was about the track.

So this notion that somehow we we're just missing the boat, and that this is all about the money that the city might lose.

This is about the physical asset of a neighborhood that has few that have been this striking.

So when they made a decision, which is they, because we don't know who specifically made these decisions, but when we look at the application for the historic district uh preservation uh commission, it says demolition or maybe not.

So until this window of opportunity closed because the demolition trucks are out there, they're working all night during the night.

Um there was no sense of disability was physically going to disappear, just like the Flint School has disappeared, and many other so-called city-owned assets have literally disappeared in neighborhoods and happen to be mostly ours.

Um so I don't think that you know, I don't think it's fair for this narrative to be driven that somehow the stakeholders in this process are just linked to the game.

The bottom line is the game was was to some extent was set up so that certain people would get information, other people would some people would like I'm I'm dying to know what narrative did teach us, but then to show up in a neighborhood across the street from where they work.

This is this is not rocket science.

They work across the street.

What narrative did they have to suddenly show up and say we want a new school?

We all been saying we want a new school.

That ain't the point.

The point is this is a historic asset.

This is a premises asset.

There is no need for this to be torn down because of a ideological speculative, relatively not too clear assumption that this is what parents want.

This is the best way to get care of because I don't see nine times about K through A.

I'll see too many schools in general, other than Lincoln and some wheelers, it's a very affluent school that have to have K through eight.

Our feeling is the middle school is the middle school.

There's three schools across the street that city owned, and they just put half millions of dollars to less than a decade ago, and half of those buildings.

It just can't be this kind of experience in the whole zone down the road.

Even if we lose this battle and we lose this building, it is so unreasonable to sit around and wait for people to tell us what we're going to decide on, as opposed to actually permitting us to make sure.

And that's basically what we got.

We don't decided on a building in theory that we have no leverage because there is nothing there but a blank piece of paper.

I mean, I don't understand why architects would not have pointed out the assets that are in the jurisdiction of the city, right across the street, not even 500 feet.

This that area has been a mess because of the road works and not paying attention to city-owned properties.

So, you know, I just want the narrative to be at least pushback.

It's just so it's almost like I feel like it's right on advantage of being sort of truthful and sort of not truthful.

And when I say sort of not truthful, it means how many times did the word I'm tearing this school down?

I'm tearing this building down, we don't want this build.

How many, how many people did they actually, even the teachers say we're not trying to get rid of your school and the opportunity to build a school?

What we're saying is there are better ways to do it.

And generally speaking, when you have community input, and there's countless examples.

I can give you one right now off the website.

Period, where when you have community engagement that's real, not after you made all the decisions, not after you figured out a technicality to go around the historic district review process to get good information.

These people are not our enemies.

They're they're there that can help us.

So you know, I just I just um my heart tells me that you know we're not gonna win this battle, but I also believe that no other community should ever have to go through this, that what we've been through, and you can take all the dicks and all the dates and then, but you ain't gonna get no data that says who from this neighborhood was at the opening.

There's 20 engagement or 13 years, 15 minutes.

We we can't even make it because we know from neighborhoods who have getting involved from this neighborhood.

It ain't been a lot of us.

Thank you, Rose.

Um their motion to continue.

Um, Mr.

Chair, can we enter this into the record the fact sheet that they passed out?

So we're motion would have been maybe the secondary or an extension in the neighborhood motion counties.

Thank you.

Uh a motion to continue.

So what was the motion?

I'm sorry.

A motion to presume the resident continue.

Continued.

Yeah.

And then second.

Any discussion?

See none.

All those in favor?

All right.

Any days?

Motion.

Meeting adjourned.