Okay, there we go.

Recording conference.

Awesome.

Excellent.

Um hello everybody.

I am Sue Anderboard, chair of the special committee on the environment resiliency calling our Thursday, December 11th, uh 2025 meeting to order.

First will please call the role.

Sher And present.

Vice Shara Sanchez.

Councilman Pedro Espinao is absent.

Present.

You have three pressing one absent.

You have a quorum.

Awesome.

Thank you so much.

I also want to acknowledge Councilwoman Peterson is here today.

We have Councilwoman Elect Phil Davidson joining us tonight.

We'll get sworn in next week.

So excited.

Also always want to thank our amazing clerks who beyond being amazing always just dealt with some real intense IT issues.

So yay for them.

Fingers crossed.

We have wonderful solicitor here today.

And then members of our policy team.

Thank you guys so much for being here and tons of members of the public who will swear you in in just a minute.

And also from the mayor's team.

So can we please read item number one into the record?

Item number one, an ordinance and amendment of chapter 23 of the Court of Ordinances of the City of Providence in title, streets, sidewalks, and public places as amended to change article one, section 23-35 relating to utility permits.

Oh they should have.

Oh yeah.

Can I please have a motion to substitute in the version we have in front of us?

Oh sorry, uh second.

And this is just for committee members or council folks since we have members of public here and they might not know how the committees work.

So anything that we can do as community members definitely um you know just let us know.

Well, thank you guys so much.

Um we will definitely have a meeting in January.

Um can definitely touch base with each of you um ahead of time uh to talk through any changes or concerns or anything that comes up.

Um and I'll read you all the comment if anything comes up, let me know.

But other than that, can I have a motion to continue on that testimony?

Oh, sure.

Yeah, yes, entering the record.

Yeah.

Do we have to do each one separately or I think to go?

Okay.

Um we've received um several pieces of testimony officially.

Um, and you have them in front of you.

Um we'll it's uh accept them as an exhibit collectively to hand motion to label these as exhibit.

All in favor?

All right, cool.

Um, I said it.

Um, and then can I please also have a motion to continue?

So move.

Second.

All in favor?

All right.

Excellent.

Um excellent.

We will take this back up in January if we make some minor changes, and I'll look forward to getting this over the finish line for our residents who I know I hear from them all the time that they're ear to see this get done.

So um, thank you all so much.

Um, this oh yeah.

Um we please read item two into the record.

Sure.

Item number two presentation on the stormwater task force recommendations.

Presentation by Lucilla de la Cruz, director of sustainability and Sheila Dormori.

She's a policy and resilience.

Excellent.

Um, so I am really excited about this presentation.

We have a lot of materials in front of us.

And you guys might remember we've discussed with briefly before the mayor um had a task list on slow water.

Um, and um both councilman Anthony and I represented the council on that task force.

Yeah, and there were many, many other people the task force, which uh both uh director Dela Cruz and Chief Normandy will discuss.

Um, but there are a number of recommendations and exciting next steps underway that they wanted to share with us on council, get our thoughts and feedback.

Um, and so I'm excited that we were able to invite you guys here today to make this presentation.

We'd hope to do this a while ago, and all things happened in the city at the time they should happen, and today is that day.

So um I'm always like should have happened six months ago, it's my bad.

Um, but can we please um swear in a few books?

Sure.

Um, whenever and I know we're having some technical difficulties, Clerk.

Uh uh, Claire, do you want us to take a moment so we can get to the owl working?

Or since there'll be a presentation up, I just want to turn the um video off so it's not just on like you don't feel like people are just staring at your face.

I know it's I don't want you to feel self-conscious.

So I don't know what's yeah.

Um, owl is experiencing some technical difficulties.

So as you're giving the presentation, y'all, if you could just use your like outside voice so that it gets picked up on the recorder and also on third computer.

That is um, should we wait a sec?

No, you can keep going.

I'm just gonna play with it because it'll definitely be closer.

Yeah, you'll you need to swing in, I think.

Oh I think we're gonna swear in Cula and Cephilla, but maybe also other members of the task force you might want to give comment.

So I took her, Elizabeth, Alicia.

Do you guys want to also stand up and um play this for you in?

Please raise the right hand.

Do you swear under penalty of perjury that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Yes.

Please state your full name and your title for the records.

Elizabeth Scott and I miss Snip that we are for Rhode Island.

J.

Normany, the chief of policy and resiliency from your smanley.

Crystal of the coach directly sustainability, Alicia Larer, executive director of the Wynasqua Talking River Watershed Council.

Show for Hamblin, executive director of Save the Bank.

Awesome.

Thank you guys all for being here so much.

Um and I will let Priscilla take it away.

Um and we have printouts of her presentation and it'll also be up on this lane.

And if other folks here want copy, they're behind Brandon.

Sorry, Brandon.

No, that's it.

Um, do you want to sit next to Councilman Peterson?

Unless you want to stand.

You're welcome to stand or you're welcome to sit next to Councilman Peterson.

I'm opening here for now.

Okay, whatever makes you happiest.

And this is where I'm perfect.

I think what do you want on the screen first?

Uh the the just a PowerPoint slide.

Okay, and we all have physical copy of copies.

All right, well, as Claire's pulling that up, we probably get into the slides.

Um, I want to just set the stage for the conversation and the discussion we want to have with you all today.

Um so when we looked at bringing together the stormwater, we looked at the many challenges that we're facing across the city.

And we're going to get into why there was a need to create such task force and what were those challenges related to our stormwater and sewer infrastructure.

But as I'm walking through the presentation, I really want you to also think about how have you experienced the flooding issues that we're facing, your constituents, what are they experiencing when it comes to the uptick and flooding events?

And also I I thought when I would go out into my neighborhood that if I started talking about stormwater or sewer pipe infrastructure, that people would say, like, what are you talking about?

But I was surprised.

I mean, people like understand that we have um a very complex system, um, an aging system, and it's impacting their quality of life every day.

So I ask you to think about that as we get into why um the stormwater is through a task for has made the recommendations that are before you today.

Um, and then where I want us to be when we're discussing is thinking about how do we work together to really pursue these recommendations and recommendations and implement them.

We know that we face challenges and we have a viable solution in front of us.

So, how can we work together to really pursue these recommendations and implement them?

All right, with that said, we can get into the PowerPoint slide.

Okay.

It wasn't working at first.

Oh, great.

You can't feel the clicker.

Sorry, I don't have to say no.

This committee is plagued by IT issues is a persistent challenge.

Yeah.

I have bad GG, guys.

It's on my bad.

And excuse me, I am Gnostic, but for some reason I have a tickle in my throat.

I think my body's like, yay, stir water and sewer.

I am so pumped for this.

It's been like over a year, right?

And here we are.

So it's super exciting.

And Councilman Rise rebaptization.

No, we're going to take an issue of the gentleman, I forget for you.

It was the smart board.

Yes.

I forget exactly.

Yeah, that was wild.

So many tech issues.

That's more insider.

Yeah.

Sort of wild committee, guys.

We persevered a lot.

Here we are.

Here we are together.

Not drowning in stormwater.

Thank you, Priscilla.

All right.

So over the past few years, um, we've seen that seen an uptick in flashblooding events through, and this is citywide, right?

And we're going to continue seeing these extreme weather events, and they're impacting our neighborhoods.

This is the Pleasant Valley Parkway area.

Um, and we're seeing there's nowhere else for the water to go.

And we'll talk about those challenges of even when we're deploying green infrastructure to absorb the water at the pace that we can um based on the very constrained funding streams that we have.

It's it's not enough.

Um, there's a lot of great infrastructure, and all this is exacerbated by the aging infrastructure that we have.

We often don't think about what's underneath our roads, but what's underneath our pipes that have had decades of deferred maintenance and pipes that before our eyes are having roads collapse when it's raining.

So all these issues are coinciding, right and culminating to what we're seeing today across our communities.

And it's only going to get worse.

Um, here we see other images of just again the road collapsing and the aging infrastructure underneath.

Um, and we're seeing across the city, right?

It's also becoming a public safety matter, right?

We often think about um the climate pollution side of things, but it I want you to also think about how unsafe it is for our communities when you can't walk, get to school, drive your car, get to work, jump on public transit.

So here I like this image when we're looking at the Kingsley Yak area, and this is an area, of course, we're deploying more green infrastructure.

But again, we have many areas in our communities that are overpaved.

There's just not enough um green infrastructure to absorb that water.

Um, this is an example of a manhole on French Avenue, right?

And how essential it is for a system for um our crews that work on the sewer and the stormwater side to be able to access these main holes um that are take care of the discharge of water.

And this is happening during an extreme flooding event, what we call a flash flooding event.

Um, it's impacting also our businesses, right?

Residents are experiencing small businesses are experiencing this is a commercial plaza.

Um, what we need to also think about how hard it is for some of our residents and small businesses to bounce back when they have to close their doors due to um these extreme weather events.

And we're also seeing again the public safety issue and even our first respondents, right?

Having to figure out how are they gonna navigate um all this water.

This is a picture, of course.

This is um state infrastructure when we look at 195, but this is close to Thurbers Avenue, right?

We're seeing the highway shut down because of the water.

That water also going on to Eddy Street, cars not being able to get it across.

This is where also the hospital district is.

So again, um, just really reinforcing here that we have a public safety matter.

Um, we know where these flash flooding events are happening and they're happening all across the city in the communities, in the wards that you represent.

Um, we also know where these hot spots are happening when you look at the concentration of those blue dots.

And when you look at the purple, um, we know where sewage is backing up as well, right?

So when you're using your toilet or your sink and you're thinking about where does that end up?

It could end up in any one of these neighborhoods backing back up.

So I mentioned um pollution, right?

It's all it's also a public health matter.

When we have more rain falling, we have more stormwater runoff.

And that pollution is ending up in our water bodies and often um not being treated.

And we will talk about why that is um with the different type of complex infrastructures that we have across the city.

Um, we also know what waterways we have because of stormwater runoff.

Um we see here along the Winnipeg Muskantuke Reserve Watershed, um, and also across West River, right?

We we are trying our best to clean these polluted um waterways.

Um, and we have um we have requirements um through the Clean Water Act, um, both state and regulatory, where we have to continue improving the water quality.

So when we think about how complex our system is, this is a very busy diagram.

Um, what I want you to remember from this slide, um, if I could easily get over there without dripping, I would show you, I would show you to focus on the dark purple lines where you see the infrastructure operated and owned by Narragansa Bay Commission, right?

Um, if you are um a homeowner, a landlord, you are paying Narraganta Bay Commission and they're doing a great job of really investing in that system, right?

They have your revenue to rely on.

And as a result, that is improving um the water quality and the waterways that I've been talking about that are impaired.

But everything else outside that thick purple line, it's all owned and operated by the city of Providence.

That is all that we are responsible for.

And it's a lot, right?

When you think about in comparison, um, when you flush your toilet, when you use your sink, um, that is our sanitary system.

Um, the stormwater, whenever there is um rain, right?

That's falling through the roof, ending up on the ground, that is our separate um storm sewer system.

And then we also have combined storm water um and sanitary sewer systems.

Over 60, about like 68% of our system is combined.

And the important thing to remember here um why that is significant is that whenever there is a lot of rain and the system, the combined system cannot handle that, it's at its capacity, it's gonna overflow.

That means it's not gonna end up at a water treatment facility.

It's gonna end up polluting our water streams.

And that is not unique to the city of Providence.

We have over 700 communities around the nation that are also grappling with this concern.

And so, Priscilla, can you say that again?

So it's the combined storm and sewer system.

So when we're like flushing our toilets, when there's overflow because of the combined, that is what's going on.

I just want to make sure I'm saying that out loud.

Like that's what's winding up.

Yeah, so when you think about I I mentioned there's a separate sanitary system, the separate stormwater system, then we have a combined sewer system as well across some of our streets.

And whenever that there's too much water and there's just not enough, right, for that capacity to keep flowing through, that's gonna overflow.

It's not gonna make it into whatever connects into Narragansett Bay Commission or a treatment facility for stormwater.

It's gonna end up in the bed.

Yeah.

Thank you.

That's pretty bad.

Yeah.

And then what makes it even worse when we think about everything that is owned and operated by the city, we're talking 451 miles of pipes.

We're talking over 19,000 manholes and also also catch basins over 13,000 that need to be cleaned and operated and maintained for the health of this infrastructure that's already aging and crumbling.

We don't have a dedicated revenue stream to manage all that.

Right.

So yes.

I guess where who how are we getting the like the metrics that you know, how do we know uh there's 451 miles of pipes?

Is that like DPW tracking that?

Yes.

Yeah, and Craig Hawkman, I will get into the report and how we took inventory of that, but he's been doing this work for a really long time to really take everything that used to be on paper and write digitize it.

So at some point in time, all this was tracked by paper.

And Craig Hawk Hawkman made it his mission to make sure that this is all digital.

So if you wanted to zoom into your neighborhood, he can go in and tell you, oh, I can see that you have a separate sanissary system and a separate stormwater system here, or you're on a combined system.

And he can also tell you, well, we know the age of this infrastructure.

Um, it's crumbling.

There's the potential for a sinkhole.

Yeah, for example, if there's too much erosion on that pipe.

So we have this all documented and all digital now.

Wow.

And and um, again, just out of curiosity.

Uh, when was that completed?

Like, was that just those years in the recently?

Very recently, right?

Very recently.

We had a consent agreement with the Rhode Island Department of Environmental Management in 2017.

And this is one of the things we needed to be able to know what our system was and things that was required that are you.

So this is you are and being fascinated by it.

And also uh being horrified that we didn't know really in a detailed way.

We had to do field visits to like to figure out where does this pipe go?

Understand.

But now it's also you've got these little arrows that tell you which direction water is flowing.

It's very exciting.

I don't mean to derail it.

I don't think this is a good point.

Yeah, thank you.

Because of that consent agreement with DEM, we significantly professionalize the work that we are doing at BPW.

And there's a lot more to do as personalists.

Yeah.

And which is why also we know how dire the state of the of this infrastructure is.

So that leads us to why we created the stormwater and sewer task force.

We really needed help from a diverse group of stakeholders to understand how can we address this critical um stormwater and store infrastructure, all the needs, and what are the potential solutions?

So we established this task force.

This was um late in 2024.

So we lasted all of uh late 2023, we lasted all of 2024 together doing this work.

And that resulted in having a report by a consultant we hired um to really get into what are the current costs?

Um, what are the tenure projections for how we're actually going to improve the system?

What are some viable solutions and what the task force did um before making recommendations to the city?

They said, okay, let's all together build a baseline.

Let's understand what are the environmental justice issues that we face.

Um we are known for having a nationally recognized climate justice plan.

We know some communities are more impacted than others when it comes to how the climate crisis is impacting them.

Um, and we also know that we have compliance challenges, right?

Sheila just talked about um that consent order we have with DEM and how we have to be able to show and track the progress that we're making.

Um, we also walk through the issue we're facing in all of our communities when it comes to the increased flooding that we're seeing and what's underneath, right?

How chronic the state of our infrastructure is, but also we're gonna get into how we lack the funding.

So this is um an overview of who the stakeholder task force is, their membership.

We have console Anderwall on there, former constable than Helen Anthony.

I won't read all of this, but just to point out what wide range of interest we had at the table from um today you have here um Safe the Bay, Toper, Wanusco Tuck Ever Watershed Council, Alicia, who's who's nonprofit does great work also in improving um green infrastructure and deploying green infrastructure.

We had a developers in the room, right?

When thinking about the housing challenges and how we approach development across the city from you have RIPEC, large users, like Brown University at the table, environmental justice advocates like April Brown, formerly with the RAJC, um Lyuna, um Adam Lapino really thinking about the workforce component of this.

So we really wanted to have a wide representation here and then ensure that they're supported by technical assistance, right?

Not only did we go as far as hiring um RAF Tellus, who's the consultant who produced the assessment before you today, um, but today here we have Elizabeth Scott with the SNEP network um and other partners that really came in and helped us not only facilitate the task force, but really critically look at the challenges and the solutions in front of us.

And they were, of course, supported by city staff.

I mentioned Craig Hawkman.

He spent many, many, many hours um sharing a wealth of information that only he knows leading that division at DPW.

Um, myself, Sheila, um, and Sophie from my team also are part of that process.

So what was their process?

I mentioned 2024 spending the calendar year together.

What I went through in about two minutes with you all, we'd spend hours together diving into it, really understanding stormwater, how dirty water is managed across the city, understanding the equity challenges that we face in Providence and also really getting into the numbers.

What are the current costs?

Where are their unmet needs?

What are our funding options?

You know, what's legally possible?

What are some good case studies around the nation that are working?

And then we took a break in July and August.

But it was my style break.

We really did not break.

We instead the task force went out into the community and had conversations, right?

They were talking um to their constituents about how is this impacting you?

And I'm not going to read what's in front of here.

Um you can go ahead and read what's on the screen.

But what was really interesting when they were talking to residents, businesses, um, whether small or large, they were all being impacted by us.

And they were getting into the conversation about wow, like how how are we going to address this problem of aging infrastructure?

I've had to close my door, I've had to close to say no to business or residents that just don't know how they're going to be able to pay for the expense of not only sometimes even cleaning sewage out of their basements and then thinking about, okay, what's needed?

A sub pump, how do I do that?

Where do I go?

Where do I find the funding for that?

Um, so these are real challenges.

And the task force then came back and said, okay, we have that perspective, we have that insight.

How do we also develop a criteria for how we're going to evaluate the different funding and financing options that rep tell us the consultant was presenting?

Um, and then where we concluded in December was with the criteria they developed to really look at this through an equity and sustainability lens, um, they were able to evaluate the funding options and issue a final recommendation and memo to to the mayor.

Where did they conclude?

They concluded we don't have dedicated funding.

This is dire.

This is more than a thumbs up, is a strong recommendation, pursue user fees, implement stormwater user fees for stormwater and sewer management.

So meaning you contribute to the problem, you're going to pay your fair share based on how much you use.

But they said, of course, this is not going to happen overnight, and we care about how you do this.

Um, so our support comes with these contingencies.

Do robust education and outreach, really dive into beyond the preliminary assessment that you've done, which is reflected in this first phase of the stormwater and sewer assessment you have before you and really understand how you're going to build in transparency, accountability, um, how you're going to administer this in terms of deciding, you know, where the money goes, um, deciding exactly how the rate is structured for these user fees.

And yes, there are equity considerations.

You want to do this not only fairly, right?

And the fair part really comes into play when even if you don't pay taxes, you contribute to the problem, you pay your fair share.

Um, but we know that some of our residents might not be able to financially do this.

So, how do you offer the right customer assistance programs?

And how do you ensure that the funds are distributed equitably across the city as you are collecting this revenue?

Um, and then of course, we have many challenges in the city that we're working on, like the housing crisis.

We have a new comprehensive plan, a climate justice plan.

How do you align all those policies that's really critical and thinking about the years to come, right?

What are the job training opportunities as we deploy more green infrastructure, as we restore and replace piping infrastructure?

Um, how can we really work in our workforce development?

And then driving behavioral change was really important to the task force.

How are you going to incentivize and really ensure that either by issuing credits on bills that you really are shifting the behavior as to how we are reducing overpavement and de paving, for example?

Um, so these are all in your report on the assessment.

Um, the appendix is the memo from the task force.

Um, and I really do um recommend that you read more about their criteria and their recommendations for supporting stormwater and user fees, even if you don't need the rest of the report.

Yes.

There's a lot of respect.

Yeah, it's a very dense report.

You read the whole thing though.

We'll end the recording minutes.

But like, but if you are like Craig Hoffman, right?

And you want to dive into these numbers, um, whether you're an engineer or not, and you really want to understand, right?

What is the state of the current infrastructure?

How do we know what's underground?

This report captures that.

It also captures the current level of funding, the constraints.

Um, and it also looks at if you were to dedicate if you were to create dedicated user fees based on on funding and usage, how do you do that?

Um here are some preliminary projections, but here's where you need to go deeper to actually do that well.

Um, and it does an analysis of where we need to be over the next 10 years.

And as we mentioned, read the task force memo at the end.

So when we get into sewer and storage current costs, what I want to point out here, um, when you look at the operations and maintenance, the first uh number you see after operations and maintenance total, nearly 4 million, that is the average.

When you look at everything else that happened, um, that is not reflective of a normal year.

There was an infusion because we had Arbow dollars, for example.

Um, and then to point out also we have no dedicated funding for flooding mitigation projects, right?

So when you're hearing from your constituents as to what are we gonna do?

There's so much flooding, there's no dedicated funding for that either.

So the report gets into what are the unmet needs.

Um is estimated to be over a hundred years old.

So just think about that.

And when there's a lot of different maintenance, no wonder these pipes are leaky.

No wonder there's erosion and they're collapsing and there are sinkholes across the city.

So again, it's a public safety matter, right?

We cannot continue with the status quo.

And when we think about the responsibilities of DPW, they just don't have that funding to really staff up, right?

And really be able to keep up with the maintenance of the system, nor the funding to replace it either.

And of course, we're in a reactive mode.

We want to be in a proactive mode.

So how do we get there?

This is the work that Rev Tell us did and really understanding what are our needs.

How do you bring the system to industry standards?

How do you ensure that it's compliant with state and federal regulations?

But also, how do you start investing and doing long-term planning to really invest in flooding mitigation projects to start maintaining these typing infrastructure at the rate that it needs to, replacing them and restoring them.

Um, so you see here, you know, a 10-year outlook, it's like we're investing then annually of nearly 50 million dollars.

Um, and we're not suggesting that this all comes from user fees, right?

From what we are suggesting is that this is an equitable, fair way of really being able to build the type of revenue we need.

Because um, and I'm just gonna jump quickly around here, because if you do that, right, if you do that, then if you start charging fees, and let's say we're estimating this is really preliminary, um, let's say 25 a quarter, 100 a year.

And remember that the more you use, the more you pay into that system, even if you are a tax recent organization, um, we're gonna be able to, that's reliable revenue.

Then we're gonna be able to build up a financing and really look for more capital, right?

That's where we want to be.

Yes, please.

Um, the uh storm water fees, uh it sounds like the homeowner, the homeowners will be responsible for paying those.

And it um I think the head nod said yes.

So I uh yes, okay.

And other entity, not just foreigners, all property owners.

So like brand loan area, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Um and uh will uh this is probably good.

Well, is it thought that uh these uh fees would be restricted to like is it gonna go to the general fund?

Yeah, possibly okay, so okay, okay.

It would be restricted and it would be dedicated revenue just for stormwater and sewer management.

So unlike we have now.

Yeah, yeah.

As required by state law, like so the state law allows us to collect these fees, but only if they are segregated and used specifically for the purpose of designated fee.

Thanks.

Yeah, and when we think about everybody imply where fees can go, um, what they could be used for, not only capital improvement, um, operations and maintenance, but really if we're going to meet all the program goals that I mentioned and where we want to be in the future about really restoring the conditions of this infrastructure and tackling flooding flooding across the city, um, we need to be able to really stack up, right?

And that's going to take equipment um as well.

And one of the things I want to just take a step back here, when we talk about the level of assessment that has been done and where the task force did a deep dive along with the consultant with really understanding just to your question, consuming more is how do we now pay for things, right?

There's so much competing with the general fund.

We all do really important work um in looking at all the competing priorities for the city, right?

Whether it is education, um whether it is housing and then when we look at um who pays for that it's only about half of our property owners right because the other most of the majority are um tax assembled organizations.

So it's not a fair way of being able to pay for these problems if you're putting it yet again on the same residents and taxpayers.

So then when we look at grants and loans and bonds, it's similar right grants are fantastic if you can get them but they're very competitive.

And then when you're doing loans and bonds again the current taxpayers would be paying for that.

But when you look at stormwater and user fees you can start to get over some of these constraints here right last year we all had to look at increasing that tax levy for education purposes and again those that are current taxpayers are the ones paying into that not tax exempt organizations.

So it really lacks fairness to continue this approach and it does not meet the needs that we are facing.

And a quick like note if you don't mind something that came up at the task force too is a lot of the tax exempt organizations also have large properties and a lot of those properties have parking lots or other like um impermeable services as part of them like Brown hearing because in my neighborhood the hospitals have these large employees services that are contributing to the stormwater issue and the flooding and the like not being able to absorb water into the ground and so not having them pay taxes or incorporating them into this program in a more deliberate way to offset like what they're doing was really important especially from an equity perspective that it just shouldn't be taxpayers because there are like such a large percentage of our land base is from tax exempt organizations including the state um like yeah again and then yeah um so just to build off of um chief um you said so state law allows the city to add uh a fee to all property owners uh specific to to do maintenance on this type of infrastructure yeah there's uh stormwater management uh enabling legislation um that allows any municipality in rhode island by itself or together with other municipalities to charge a fee for stormwater management based on how much a property contributes to stormwater management challenges and the same exists related to sewer use fees.

Just two questions um if that's okay chair of um is there any other cities or towns in Rhode Island that currently have all this type of fee no well this is a approach that's more common in other areas of the country but increasingly popular in other New England states not yet in Rhode Island.

Yeah so Massachusetts has um several communities that already have this model um also Boston Boston Water um sewer commission um Maine um there's a community there that has adopted it also Vermont so it's it's a growing trend and there's like other 1500 communities around the nation that have these dedicated user fees.

Awesome um last question how is like how is like you said it's like measured or you said it's depends on like how much water is used or how's it measured?

Yeah for stormwater usually you would measure like how much impervious cover do you have on your property.

So any hard surface that can't absorb the water we're gonna assume that water is going to run off of that property and go into a storm drain.

So that's how much you contributed and through the magic of math and modeling we can figure out like what what that means for how much water that is and how much that is as part of the system.

And for sewer use fees often like the Narragansit Bay commission uses uh based on how much uh water you got from Providence water.

So how much water went into your house they're assuming all of that water went out of your house and that's what your user fee is based on.

So that so that's how you you figure it out.

And this is what the Reftelus consultants uh helped us do a little bit of a draft of like what how much would we be talking about here and how does that work um and that's what we're I'm foreshadowing what Chris will be telling you about for the coming year we're gonna get more in detail and figure out what like what does that mean for our property owners yeah I did have a question of uh Chair's you uh brought up the uh colleges and I actually think I'm not a lawyer good question the law department but I'm pretty sure then a pilot agreement it's pretty explicit that we can't charge municipal user service fees and I'm I'm I'm or we would be in breach of pilot and so question I'm how is this interface with that?

And so question.

I'm how is this interface with that?

That's a good question.

It's a question for another time.

Yeah, right.

Is that we you guys are prepared to talk about, or is that the question for another time?

Any question for another time?

Okay, but also um we are gonna spend now the next it's okay to say this now, I'll repeat it again at the end, but we're gonna spend the next year with Rock Tellus and also with the legal department and many other departments and you all really doing a deeper dive, right?

And really understanding what's on the books, what needs to change in order for us to be able to do this and to make sure that everyone's paying the fair share.

Well, really good question.

Yeah, that's a great.

Because Brown was on the task force, but that I remember that coming up explicitly in this we talked of actually okay.

Continue on for silly.

So just a recap of where we've been tax versus free approach, right?

Um we will continue to underfund just because there's no other way of funding these challenges that we're facing, right?

The status quo will continue where we will not have enough um operations and maintenance dollars, um, not even for the reactive side of things that we're seeing, right?

Not even to be able to meet the challenge of how pipes are collapsing, how sewage is backing up into properties, and how there's nowhere else for the water to go um in our communities.

Um we just don't have uh a dedicated revenue stream.

But if we were to continue with this fee approach, um, we're opening up the door to go beyond the status quo, have this dedicated funding stream, um, ensure that everyone's paying their fair share so we can actually um rely on that funding to raise more money.

Um, that's essential to really back up right bonds and financing that's necessary to make these big improvements and really do the kind of master planning that has to happen and build up the administrative work and the maintenance work that has to happen.

Um we also, as I I implied earlier, um, we can do this right.

We can not only is this a fair and sustainable way, but we can do this in an equitable way um that really ensures we're meeting the needs of what our residents are facing, and that we have customer assistant programs as well.

So where we ended up after that year-long process, the task force saying, Yes, the city needs to increase its investments to tackle the challenges with aging infrastructure, and we need to be able to sustain that.

Um, we need to invest in more green infrastructure.

There needs to be more dedicated funding to install um runoff systems like bioswales.

We need more um infiltration basins, right?

What you see on on your right, we need to be able to deploy more of that so we can really absorb the water and decrease the amount of in-pergous cover that we have and really start to um reduce the overpayment across our communities, and we need to look at pre-implementing the dedicated user fees.

It's the only viable option that they saw for the city.

So, what's next?

Um, we I we've implied, um, but I can explicitly say the good news is that we have funding to continue to do this work.

We secured a grant through the Snap Watershed Implementation SWIC grant program.

Um, we have about 300,000 to continue working with Rectellus.

Thank you.

I was on finish that like already texted me and was like, I know you're maternity leave, but we got the grant.

I think we like submitted that while you were like, yeah, like a week before Sebastian came into the world.

Yes.

So it was it was uh a great effort um and supported by um all the technical folks we've been working on, but really building on the great work of the task force and saying we're ready to do this deeper analysis to really look at how do we structure these rates, how do we really analyze the data, the parcel, the land use data, um, how do we create customer assistance programs and also learn from what's working, right?

Um we have money to do some peer learning, talk to Boston Water Sewer Commission about what they learned throughout their process.

Um, and rectellis has done this around the nation, right?

So we're gonna be spending more time with them, but I think also just as important, we have funding to do robust community engagement to work with people and develop the right tools to go into the community um and get their input to really help shape how we develop this program.

So we will be working with Ractellis throughout this coming year in 2026.

Um the grant period um is through 2027, and by then we want to be in a place that we are lifting up the program that we've done all the robust engagement and all the analysis that's gonna build the user face.

Um, so that's where I want to leave you there.

Um, continue the discussion about how can we work together, um, work with you and your communities, um, at board meetings, whatever you think is needed for us to really get the uh the amount of engagement and feedback that we need to do this right.

And I think you'd start for one more thing to airwoman.

Um because our listening audience at home wants to know where they can read the reports, they can find it on our website at Climate ReadyPVD at Providenceri.gov.

So uh when we share that link, of course, with the committee afterwards and anyone who's this is awesome on our portal.

Excellent.

And the um everything's on everything's on the city's portal as well on the open meetings portal.

So yeah, we can point books there as well.

Um awesome.

Any other yeah, that's one fears that I got thank you.

I think this is phenomenal work.

So thank you for all of that.

Um it's clear and based on just the area that we all we live in.

Um it's dire it's specifically in our area.

But I was just wondering, just out of curiosity.

Um, who would if you have yeah, who would be generating um the collection and user fee setup and all that type of stuff in the city?

Or would it be something that would be done directly to these different agency in and of itself?

It could be either or, and that's what we're assessing now the effect on the sending that people die from anywhere.

We'll look at different models and what makes the most sense for the climate.

Thank you.

No, great, great question.

Thank you.

Um yeah, I saw you guys have people for like the development world on there, and we obviously know like how dire the housing crisis is like everyone look, most of the people in council are really supportive of you know, affordable housing development.

Um, but you know that that in itself um could be a little uh difficult when when it comes to snowmore arrangement.

Is there any like I know like development now is like a lot more environmentally friendly than development that has happened in the past?

Um is there anything else that like new development should be like uh what I'm trying to say, I guess is like our new development like laws like in full compliance with like the also uh similar crisis of our stormwater infrastructure.

Yeah, so there is a stormwater ordinance and there are also state regulations as well for new construction, new development, and that's what we will be want to add more.

And that one of the things we have got in here from the task force was these are both really important issues.

We leave a lot more housing everywhere right now, and we need more infrastructure green space to be able to capture stormworkers.

Um, and so that those are two things that we are keeping as we design what are the incentives that we want to have for property owners um to be able to capture stormwater on site.

Where do we want to have more restrictions or less restrictions um for building and really making the most of the green space and open space that we have to be able to capture rain where it falls?

Um, so you are right in identifying one of the one of the cornerstone issues of things that we need to be addressed because they're emotional regularities that we need to navigate here.

And Calvin's angent else to grab that.

Um I remember having a conversation with one of the developers at the task force who brought up like making and as cheap dorming is just saying, like making like the example I'll give in my neighborhood that he and I had talked through was like there's this vacant property on your main street that's been vacant for like 20 years across from the parlor.

It is like my white whale.

I want to see that developed.

But like right now it's blank and there's just grass there.

And so that isn't like necessarily great for stormwater, like you don't want you don't really know if anything's really permeating down because it's just like open land, but it is open land and it's not paved.

So he's like, it would be a higher and best use for us to put a house there or like a large apartment building, but that is an impervious surface.

We want to make sure we're not like disincentivizing turning these vacant properties into impervious services, which is like housing.

Um it's like a complicated, like we need to be nuanced about this, because if it's like there's a disincentive to turn open space into housing, that's that's a huge problem.

And it could contribute to blight um because we just have these vacant lots that aren't actually really helpful to have, but our open space technically.

But there's not a technology that is available for us here.

Providence college is actually uh one of the leaders in their stormwater master plan, is maybe um outstanding.

And so, and they have obviously been in a development boom themselves too, uh, but they had a good plan for like we're gonna need buildings over the next 15 years in all of these places.

There's gonna be stormwater runoff that comes from them.

So when they built out their track and field uh piece that goes up River Avenue, there's a really great underground stormwater catchment area underneath there.

So there's a system.

So when there's too much water that's there, um it's going through that underground system, getting filtered out before it's eventually released um into what that site goes towards Pleasant Valley Park by the West River.

They also have two different major water bodies that they um deliver to.

So there is technology that is available for these sorts of things, and it does require planning ahead.

Um, and so that is the kind of thing, especially for the large institutions.

We want to see more of that uh forward thought.

Yeah.

Yeah, and in the memo, I'll just add we we do the task force does expand on that when it comes to how to align policies, but also when they talk about um transparent trans um uh transparency, accountability, they also get into the program framework of like you're gonna need sophisticated software and people to track these things.

Um, and to be able not only for report out, but to also track as to like how these things are overlapping and working together.

Um and there is software out there.

Councillor Royce, did you have a look at it?

Yeah, just um, I don't know if it's in this report, but um, you know, I've been very curious about is uh there are like several uh areas of my neighborhood, brand jab being one that show uh counselor Puse and I share brand jab, but um so spring is one as well.

Um is uh is there like uh is there a report that the city has produced where um we've identified high deed areas that flood and then has there been like recommendations on what you know if even if find you know, money wasn't I mean funding was not a um a uh constraint that this piece of green infrastructure would work here um to uh mitigate the flooding.

And have we done that ever?

So yes and no.

So piece by piece, um, there are some places where we have have some done some more of that forward looking.

At least you could tell us a little bit more about the planning that's been done on the Winuspa Tucket River.

Um and we have gotten some grants to be looking at West River issues really to Branch Avenue.

Um, but this that what you're describing of that look at the big picture and figure out what the priorities are and make sure you invest there.

That is specifically what we wanna be able to have, this kind of steady funding over decades to be able to have.

Um we are much more professionalized and we're ready to do those things now, but it is it does take a much more robust operation, frankly, than we currently have.

And so that's the kind of thing when you have a dedicated user fee, you're gonna have some steady money coming in and having that bit of funding allows you to do the financing that you want to have more money to be able to do the big master plan and develop those strategies.

But right now, the vast majority of the work that we've done, like that has been grant funded.

So we've been lucky to get many of those grants as Priscilla was describing.

Um, but we know there's just a that is does need to be part of the routine operations to be able to do that and not just be like crossing our fingers and hoping somebody says success for the funding.

Yeah.

That just seems like step one.

Yeah, you know, for every yeah, it is.

Yeah, and and I recently was meeting with Craig Kaufman, our gate engineer, and and he described it in short, he's like, I want to be in the proactive.

I want to be able to do that kind of master planning and not continue to patch up band-aids across the city.

And that's where we're at now.

And if we're not even doing that well, because we don't have enough funding and staffing to do that.

Yeah.

For the record, Craig, a delight.

Um, just a question in terms of projected timeline.

Um do you foresee this being a full live with all of the things that need to come that lead to this?

When do you kind of envision this being something that would be um the new standard or the push forward?

So um what we envision is that 2026, we would spend the year doing the robust engagement and community outreach.

We would do that deeper dive, um, which we have brought tell us already on the contract to really do all this that we're talking about, all the analysis, really look at the administrative framework for running the program, overcome any legal changes um that have to happen.

Um, and then going into 2027 to 2028, then the program is lifted up, right?

But we've done a little due diligence leading up to that.

And Priscilla, what does like partnership between the council and your office look like in that 2026 framework?

Like if we wanted to help move this forward, which I think many of us do, like what does that look like?

I think it looks like us um really sitting down beyond conversation and saying, okay, these are all the opportunities for community outreach and engagement.

Um, these are the kind of tools and resources we're gonna need, and really um also you welcoming and inviting us into your board meetings as well, but us really building up that robust campaign and as we're collecting that feedback looking at like, okay, this is this is how the um the administrative pre-implementation work is looking like for the program, um, working with you all on a resolution then leading up to an ordinance because we we would need an ordinance to enable this to be non-state law.

Cool.

Um I just want to extend an invite, always welcome to any ward form meetings.

Justin's ward meetings are I've been there to talk about personal.

There are we bunch there over there, what for um uh always uh invited and if I could um be selfish is if whenever the you feel the time is right to stop by, I would love to um you know, um, have like a maybe ward for centric stormwater conversation.

Um even like I mean I'm I'm really fascinated still by the the data we've collected on how many miles of like for uh pipe um that we have in the city, but I would even love to see if we could you know how much pipe exists in in the north end.

And we can.

So we recently we have another grant.

Um it's it's through SNEP SOAR, um, and they gave us $300,000 to pick a couple of areas with the community and working with Craig Hoffman and Pima.

Um and we were able to around the Jocelyn Recreation Center, Craig was able to pull up the piping infrastructure and say, this is what your piping infrastructure looks like.

This is the state of that piping.

Um so yeah, we could do that at that board.

All right.

Or all this has all those funds been expended, or is that still in process for the SOAR grant?

Um, we're about halfway there.

We've gotten through like the intentional community outreach and frontliner and environmental justice communities.

And actually, uh, you all in Ascot River Water Council have been um partners in that work.

And now we're at the face of issuing out an RFP so we can create a flooding analysis um and an action plan.

Um and the community is interested in an action plan for the areas chosen.

Um and I think they're along the West River.

Is that where we're landing for the source?

Um, and really looking at short-term actions and long-term actions.

And then of course it goes back to this um to implement um some of the less than term actions for the funding for.

Any other questions from committee members or other council people or council people elect to the table?

Do any of the task force members want to add anything?

I can't see really super well.

Yeah, Lucia.

Hey everybody, if I haven't met you before, my name is Louisa Learer and I'm the executive director at the Winas Wood Socket River Watershed Council.

I could not have been more excited to participate in this task force if I would like to like cancel anything else at the beginning.

Because um, you know, I worked and served the communities along the Winascocket River, and we've been getting flooded there for a long time.

And uh, you know, in fact, we've been training our residents in the area how to understand what the stormwater issues are so they can think about it responsibly and think about what solutions make a difference.

Those are those guys, like we're part, some of them were participating in this next door um thing where where we were looking together with residents from all across the city about how and um the one program, they were like, you have to put in green infrastructure there.

Like I'm so proud of them.

Um but what it what I also really want to say that's again Providence, like this is your chance.

You can leave the whole state.

Nobody's doing this, they're trying.

Um, but once you crack this nut, well, people in the whole rest of the state are gonna follow because we're not the only ones having stormwater issues.

Everybody is having stormwater issues.

And when I was participating on the task force, I was really advocating for not just fixing the issues that we have, but creating opportunities to work with partners like me, like Brownwork Rhode Islands, like other workforce development um organizations that can help be partners with the city to implement um some of the some of the measures that are gonna reduce flooding and improve water quality.

And in Elmhurst, we did uh an initial highlight project where we retrofitted 10 homes that were contributing water to Platinum Valley Stream.

And you saw what it looks like when it floods on Platinum Valley Park.

Where that was one of the early pictures that Priscilla showed.

And you know, people are interested in helping and participating, but that's not the kind of thing that like Craig and his one person staff could implement.

You're gonna need the partners to do that.

And so, you know, this has got to be a very comprehensive plan when you put it in.

And we model ourselves on programs that are working elsewhere in the country.

So for example, the Anacassia watershed, which is in Washington, DC, had a similar homeowner retrofit program, but because they have a fee-based program, they can say to people we can help you reduce your stormwater fee by putting in let's say a rain garden or even just a rain barrel, and like consult or like a project partner like us or like Grandwork Rhode Island can come in and help install those things and teach them how to use them, and then those people would get their fees reduced.

We would have less stormwater coming into the systems, but in my watershed alone, I need 10 square miles of stormwater captured to prevent flooding in Onliville.

And we've done a bunch of projects, but it's piecemeal right now.

And we did one project right in Onyville Square, um, where we retrofitted a parking lot, we took up some of the parking spaces and created some um water to go, filtered and treated, and we would have to do about 300 of those projects to deal with the amount of stormwater that we really need to deal with to reduce flooding.

So, you know, I could not be more of an advocate, and I would be happy to talk more about any of the other things that we do.

But this is our chance to make my river swimmable.

Imagine going and floating down the Winnescug River through Water Place Park because the water is clean enough.

That is something that we have a vision for.

And I hope you can enjoy that vision too.

Thank you, Shaf indeed.

I don't think you have to, but you're welcome to.

Councilman Andrew Barn, everybody.

Um, I too was a an enthusiastic participant in this task force.

I've been a part of a couple other ones over the years.

This one head and shoulders above all of everybody because it was very good.

And I also have to get a shout out and a part of a longer time and you're thoughtful and just want to have shoulders matters like the result.

I also want to get a shout out.

I think the slides that Priscilla showed on the front of flooding speakers themselves and it's all over the centers.

Um I'm going to touch on another piece of this, which is the waters of the rivers of the city.

So much problems.

I started working on all this stuff in the late 1980s.

I want to touch on other problems.

Um they were also much more polluted than they are today.

So I do want to acknowledge that we've come a long way in turning what was an open sewer into something that's much less risky to contact, but still kind of risky at times, especially when it rains.

Um but the upper Providence River, which was unsafe to have contact with just a couple of decades ago, is now being used by community boating.

Um people are fishing at Collier Point.

Um, people are trying to get more access to these places that that once were thought to be um just off limits.

Why would you want to go down to the shoreline of water so fluid?

Um it's been a remarkable turnaround.

I see this as the next step in that and save the bay comes at this.

Um we are sort of driven by a vision, and that's a clean, healthy bay accessible to everyone.

And um our sort of philosophy or ethic behind this is that no matter who you are or where you live, you have a fundamental right to clean water.

These are public waters, these are for everybody.

Um, and that really um that matters.

And I think that the work of this task force where it's leading is to the city getting its arms around finally sort of the last big major pollution problem that we face.

This is this is so Alicia's right.

This is very significant.

Providence could actually lead the state and lead the region and finally tackling this problem.

I think the task force result is right.

There is no other way than the dedicated user fees that can't be taken for something else.

I will also say that in my experience working at both the state and federal level that when you have a dedicated user resistantly funded program, you position the city in a much stronger way to be eligible to get grants for like major capital projects and things like that.

So I'm excited about what's ahead for doing the hard work of getting into the nuts and bowls what such a system might look like.

And I just want to pledge our organization's help to help you do your work as you evaluate this as well.

Thank you.

No, no, no, no, it doesn't take much usually.

So we are funded by uh through a cooperative agreement that is between the New England Environmental Finance Center and EPA that provides um funding for my salary and that of uh 15 other partner organizations, including Save the Bay, to basically be providing free technical assistance and training to communities across Southeast New England to basically promote um watershed and stormwater management, climate resilience and financing to support those activities.

So I have been working with Sheila and Priscilla, excuse me, since the beginning of this initiative, but Sheila and I have actually been working on this concept of developing a stormwater user fee for Providence for probably 10 years.

And I've worked with, I will tell you just by way of context, um, the the legislation that enables municipalities to be able to establish stormwater um enterprise funds has been around.

It's been on the book since 2002.

I've worked with probably 10 communities before taking on this position with the SNEP network.

I was with the Rhode Island Department of Environmental Management.

Can't even say environmental anymore.

Umre resources where I was a deputy chief, and I was there for over 30 years.

And I worked with among many responsibilities.

I worked with 10 or so other municipalities to basically do this kind of investigation to establish a stormwater user fee.

None of those were successful.

And I would say that one of there are many reasons why they were not.

There were not the drivers really for the kind of uh need for revenue that we now are seeing with climate change impacts and the flooding that is way more frequent than we've ever experienced, say five years ago, even.

And there was also just a lack of really good communication with the community and the folks who would ultimately be responsible for paying those fees.

And so, you know, the bees got in the counselors' ears and they all kind of backed down.

Um, I think what's different about what's going on here is that there is just the most, as Toper and Alicia mentioned, there's this very robust uh engagement process that started a year plus ago.

Um and I as the SNEP network liaison for Rhode Island, we have entered into a memorandum of agreement with the city where we basically are providing our support.

So we don't give out grants, the network, we give our time to basically support um communities in the work that they're doing.

So myself and my colleagues Martha Shields, who's the executive director of the New England Environmental Finance Center, and Jen West, who is with the Narragansa Bay Estuary Research Reserve.

I think I left out something in there, Nebner, um, who is a fantastic um community um engagement specialist and facilitator.

We all have basically are making ourselves available to support the city and the work that you're doing.

And um, I I couldn't be more excited to do that.

And I just I also just want to say by way of context, there's you're actually not the only one in Rhode Island that's that is looking at this.

SNEP network is going to be providing them support to do a feasibility study to look at uh creating the Stormwater Enterprise Fund in the city of uh Newport is also um taking steps.

We're not working with them on it, but I know that um you know they they have a combined system as well.

They currently um are hard pressed to meet all of the um to have the revenue they need to address not only the issues related to their combined system and stormwater and sewage issues, but also their location at the um you know, the mouth of the bay.

Um, this you know, obviously we've been talking a lot about the flooding.

There's also sea level rise, which is happening here.

It's also happening more uh significantly down in Newport.

Um, and when the water rises, it's rising up, you know, into our infrastructure.

So that can also contribute to like inland flooding.

So the time couldn't be more urgent, more important for this work to be done.

And so I just want to, you know, encourage you, applaud you for you know doing the work that you're doing, and just know that you got lots of partners who are here to support um the work that you're doing.

Any other questions or comments by committee members or members of the council or student members of the council?

And I'll just leave you with um recently we're talking to Tom, who's a grant administrator for um the step switch program, and you know, going on board contract thing and all that.

And he said among like all the grantees.

I mean they're funding amazing projects, right?

All across um the state and the region.

And he said, I am so excited for this in Providence.

He just also agrees that this is a moment, right?

Everything we hear all were backed up by partners, technical expertise, and that there's a moment here with you all and us all to make this happen.

So just want to leave you with that.

I serve as excitement.

Thank you for all of your work and for presenting to us tonight.

And um, I'm excited for us to be working in partnership and figure something out.

So um if there's no further questions, we'll be able to eye contact with it.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Um, separately.

No, we can do them all together.

Um, so we have several um documents from Priscilla and her team, um, the memo, the actual report, and then the PowerPoint, and we can enter these as exhibit two.

Can have a motion.

So moved.

Second, sorry.

No worries.

Um, all in favor.

All right.

Any opposed?

I'll send the eyes have it.

And I do really encourage everyone to read the report.

It's really well done.

Um, and for folks who are watching online, I know we had some technical difficulties, but all this is on the all the documents are on the open meetings portal.

I believe that Chief Romney will share that website with us so we can post that as well um around.

Awesome.

Any anything else?

Awesome.

Given that we have no further business, do I have a motion to adjourn?

So moved.

Second.

All in favor.

Excellent.

Uh yay, thank you, Facility.

Thank you.

Um, let's write some questions.

Let's get going.

Oh, did you have IT?

It could be the battery too, but