Approval of July the 16th, 225 minutes.

So I get a motion on it, please.

Make the motion.

I make a motion.

We approve the uh July 16, 2025 minutes.

Second.

Okay.

Commissioner Francis.

Yes.

Commissioner Sorry?

Yes.

Commissioner Miller?

Yes.

Commissioner Perkins.

Yes.

Commissioner Miles.

Yes.

Commissioner South.

Yes.

Next on the agenda is a zone map amendment for MBR properties, property located at the corner of Heath Street and Estel Avenue.

Currently zone B1 parole zone I one.

Representative here for them.

Yes, sir.

Good.

Um we have filed a uh application for a zoning map amendment.

They've already got it pulled up here.

This is a lot that my client MBR representative Mike Rice is here on.

Uh the lot is currently uh B1.

He's looking to have it reclass to I one.

Uh just for point of reference on that corner of Heath and Estel.

He also owns the properties that are all adjacent to it on the back side uh through his company.

Um and that's really the long and short of it.

That's a I'm sure everyone's familiar with it.

It's a fairly industrial area of town.

I think his plan would be to do some light industrial warehousing, something along those pl those lines.

There's not a set plan yet for that exactly, but that's that's what our uh applications for now is that the property that uh Mike had the storage unit, those storage for vehicles and stuff, or is it across the street from there?

I'm not sure.

Mike, can you as shown there?

Mr.

Estel is the that's when the concrete plant owned it.

It had a lot of pick you up for the record.

It's right on the corner.

I made a trade with them, and I owned a lot on the other side.

They needed it, and I needed this one.

And it touches those other four properties I have.

So we have cleaned it all now, so that's not updated.

Okay, but there's never been anything there.

Stuff they had parked there in the past 20 years probably.

Okay.

Kevin, you got anything.

I just had some quick highlights for the thought process.

Um the minimum building side is is one acre for an I-1.

Uh number two, the the front setback, side setbacks, and rear setbacks are 25 feet.

So that that's going to eat a lot up, which may constitute a board of adjustments for a variance for a future development plan of of that nature.

Just something to think about.

And uh, you know, th those setbacks don't leave much room.

Uh it'll be approximately around 2300 square feet of room if I one setbacks are applicable to the end.

Uh so you don't need to think about that.

I do have a building.

I my apologies.

I do have it.

That'll be sketched.

Uh, did all that for me and basically it's it's catted cornered a little bit facing the northeast side.

Um it's not a drastic, but I did.

I mean, he understood about the park in it.

We I said I just want and it was equivalent to a 50 by 70 building is about all we could max out in there.

Right.

But I do have those preliminary plans if that if that would help, but I he didn't see any problem with it.

Right.

And and and the development plan is not what we're here to talk about, but just things to consider, you know.

But I understood but if that works out, you know.

We should be okay.

Got more questions on it.

Okay.

Got a motion on there.

Okay, I make a motion that we approve the zone map amendment for MBR properties.

Property located at the corner of Heath Street and Estel Avenue.

Current zone B1, proposed zone industrial one, and then we approve the findings of fact.

I'll say before I take the vote.

Was there any public comment?

Excuse me?

Before I take the vote, was there any public comment?

I assume not behind me.

Okay.

Commissioner Francis.

Yes.

Commissioner Short?

Yes.

Commissioner Miller?

Yes.

Commissioner Perkins.

Yes.

Commissioner Miles.

Yes.

Commissioner Stell?

Yes.

Thank you.

Thank you, everyone.

Next on the agenda is the proposal Chipotle restaurant adjacent to 859 Eastern Bypass.

See the world is here.

It's Chipotle Lake.

Chipotle Lake.

Explain.

It's all you, I think.

Okay.

I don't know if it actually is my lead or not on this.

Sorry.

Sorry.

No, no problem.

No problem.

You have a full attention.

Sure.

Thank you.

Uh Tyler, do you have that plan that you could pull up?

I can if you want it.

Um so I didn't let I didn't know whether I was going to take the lead here or or Kevin and Rob were, but uh after the last time that you all saw this, I got with the uh the property owner who's also the engineer, and we work with them, and I think we've resolved a lot of the concerns that were there, and and we're able to kind of show at this stage that this is not really something that needs a lot of discretionary uh you know review, that this really was more of a ministerial issue, that there was some misunderstanding of where the uh you know exactly where some of this was going to sit.

And so really I came here today to answer any questions, but I think Kevin and Rob are in agreement that that everything is okay on this, and that there's no action that needs to be taken or not taken by this board.

Um but Rob or Kevin, I don't want to put words in your mouth.

Oh that's correct.

So the only problem that I have with this plan is, and you know I would.

Sure.

The problem I have with this plan is that uh you've only got one exit way up there by KFC, and you have another exit that goes like this, and you can't turn left.

Are you gonna close off the other way to get out with where Menards is?

And this would not.

You would not.

It would not.

So the drive aisle is either 23 feet or 25 feet.

I'm I'm not sure.

And it stays the same.

Now, visually, because of the way that the parking is changed, it looks like parking is laying over into the drive aisle.

But the drive aisle remains, it even has the same uh the uh concrete you know curb cut.

So that drive aisle coming from Minard stays the same all the way through.

The all and the traffic pattern going into the drive up window is the same traffic pattern as is drawn for the parking that exists where the the Chipotle will lay over.

So that same driving pattern and that same drive aisle and space is is unchanged.

It's just you're gonna have a building there in the in the middle of it now.

And the drive up concept as opposed to drive-through, you order ahead of time, and then you just drive up and pick it up at the window and drive around.

So it doesn't need the same amount of stacking that a uh drive the drive-through window where you would pull up, wait for the guy in front of you to order, then drive around, but even still, and this this rendering doesn't show it, but there's a rendering that has some green highlights in it that they show like eight cars could be stacked in this before it would get back into the drive aisle, and and so there and there never should be eight, you know, it should be only one or two at a time.

So we we I think that you when you look at a couple different views of it, then it makes it more clear that the drive aisle coming from Menard stays clear the whole way and shouldn't ever be back, you know, blocked or backed up.

Okay.

Okay, so you will have uh parking on both sides of the um road.

That's correct.

Can you not make a way to have just one entrance exit for the parking on the um the side of the road that faces the bypass?

Can you not make a way to have just one entrance exit for the parking on the um the side of the road that faces the bypass so that you don't have cars constantly coming in and out and we just have one entrance exit for that because you know that is a has turned into a service road between one light by Menards and the shopping complex.

It should stay that way.

Pardon me?

It should remain that way.

Well, yeah, but understanding.

Also parking for Chipotle.

That's how the parking pattern through the entire carriage gate plaza is.

Um all of the drive aisles have have parking, you know, uh intermixed to them, but again, it your drive aisle stays the same width and the same traffic pattern.

So if somebody's pulling in or out of a parking space, it may make somebody have to stop for the couple of seconds is them to pull in and out of a parking space, but there's already parking that exists there that would that would do that as well from from what I can tell.

I I don't think I don't think so.

I think what you're gonna have is you're gonna have how many how many parking spots that uh bound next to the bypass.

How many were there ten, twelve, do you know?

I I get counting there, uh I'm not sure exactly how many there are.

Um right on the bypass, looking towards the left.

Well, because if you're if you're leaving that shopping complex, turning left by what you hope will become Chapulte and go into the stop light.

Um I'm I'm listening to you, Ms.

Perkins.

I'm sorry, I'm trying to find a better picture rendering while you're talking.

I'm not just like texting.

Then what I'm saying is if I'm going down that little road, I'm gonna have cars coming at me put possibly pulling in and out on both sides into a service road.

And I don't think that's logical.

I don't think that's right.

Frankly, I think Chipotle should build their building in the center of the shopping center because they have tons of space there.

But I understand they want to be front and center on the bypass.

Well, and they and they take up such a small footprint.

I mean, they they literally are going to fit into an existing parking lot up against a building.

That's part of the reason that this is attractive to them.

That their model is not uh a lot of traffic.

You know, Chipotle's model is come in, come out, they don't need a lot of space.

So that's really why that piece has been chosen.

And so I think the owners would prefer that the other out parcels be for maybe larger or better.

Uh but uh I understand I now understanding better your your thought about the the parking, right?

But uh again throughout all sorts of shopping centers, there is parking on and off drive drive aisles.

And if there's any delay at all, it is just while somebody pulls in or out of a parking spot.

It's not like a traffic jam sort of situation.

This is a a si pretty much a road.

And they're trying to put parking on both sides of that, and so people would be pulling in and out on that one side.

What I'm saying is, can you not the side that's going to be adjacent to the bypass, can they make just one entrance and out of that, or will they not have enough room for that?

I I'm not I'm not following you the the side adjacent to the bypass.

It's uh with one entrance or or not.

I'm sorry that I'm not following because this is for the parking.

So that you don't have 12 cars pulling out into that little service road.

Sure.

Again, I don't think it creates a safety issue.

It's an inconvenience issue.

There has to be ample parking for the business that both meets the business needs and matches your ordinance.

Again, I don't know off the top of my head what that is.

I think the the while while I understand what you're saying, this was meant for a connectivity purpose, but it it is still a drive aisle within a shopping center, just like the drive aisle through the entirety of the shopping center.

I disagree with you.

And and making that be connected into the menards actually burdened this shopping center owner's property to the benefit of Menard's traffic.

And so no, because there was always that road that connected to the light, and then Menards was had to connect to that.

So it was always there as a road to the light that goes across from uh to the other shopping centre.

Sure.

I know with Kroger.

Yeah.

You know, it's kind of down from Kroger, but it's the only it's the first light that people can also get to to turn left from Kroger's if they're going.

Sure.

And I I guess that's where just conceptually I you know we we see it but we see this particular piece differently.

I understand that there is going to be some parking onto the drive aisle or in and out of the drive aisle, but i the drive aisle remains unchanged.

This meets all of the regulations of your development ordinance.

Um and as far as the the safety standards and the traffic concern standards, and so that's why I believe our our talking with you know Kevin and Rob that we came to the fact that this really should not affect that drive aisle and should not be a problem.

Well it will.

But regardless, then you're talking about extending that little parking area out closer to the bypass, correct?

You're gonna build that out so that you do have more room.

So maybe if we came over here, I can tell them because I'm not having trouble.

Yeah.

So when you say the parking area will be built out, are you talking about this parking area or this parking area?

Parking area to the right.

This parking area.

Yeah.

And then you've got can I come too?

Please.

Might as well.

Uh you can't build it now because you got the appeal work to use that.

Well, those lock it up.

You can't.

I'm thinking it may be built in this house.

Think about it.

You've got a drive through to get to the end of the state.

That's where I put one point.

Uh G Hub has the design uh some gray work be extended out into uh the driveway bypass.

That is great which which will pull essentially all of those parking saw downwards.

For that's correct.

For alignment.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's I think that's what without a side.

They could just go to that thing.

Close that off so they can go here.

They can only go there.

So that you copy on all of this congestion.

But easy to be like, you mean like put a curve in here and it's a little bit yeah.

I don't know that they would that there would be enough room to bring the road in there, but I think this is but I think this is a great picture to show this is the curve cut of the drive aisle that remains unchanged.

This is existing parking.

This is existing parking with the same traffic mechanism as the drive, as the drive uh up window aisle.

So you see the drive aisle always stays this way.

It just there's a building right here.

Okay.

So these won't be able to pull out that way.

No, ma'am, they they now this will be changed because the building will be here.

These will now face out this way.

So that's what I that's my issue.

Sure direction, and I think that's an impediment to the traffic flow.

And my other issue is if you pull this out, and I'm just arguing, but if you pull that out, what if we decide 20 years from now to make the uh six lands as opposed to four, then all of a sudden mess up the spacing.

Well that's true.

Before that, the state highway traffic department will have to pay this landowner for doing that, and we'll have it will have to take on all and we'll have to take on all that to the benefit of the community.

So sure.

I Preston Preston, while you're there, please.

But what's the traffic flow like when you come into the business?

Is it go counterclockwise or clockwise?

Is the drive drive through part?

Just see that that arrow points like that.

The existing traffic flow, it would be over, it would be like this.

Gotcha.

Where is the building for the new place?

It would sit basically right here.

Because these would still these will still exist, the ones that are not taken out because of the construction.

And you know, this is I don't know if it's directly right there, I think it's actually moving to about right here and turns.

Oh no.

But I I think again, I think visually uh upon a first look, it it seemed a little bit a little cramped and a little confusing.

I think when you scale back and you look at this, you're putting a very small building into just what it you had exist, and which shouldn't be an issue.

And this design, while there's still a few admin specs that Mr.

has to work out because Kevin meets all of the regulations we develop the limits.

Yeah, so when uh if I'm going down there that way, I only have to worry about the traffic coming backing out on the right side.

They can't come in on the left side.

No both sides.

I mean they yes, they could they could come in from the left side and make a left-hand turn into the Chipotle.

Yeah, but I mean they are gonna come like this straight out.

Yeah.

They will.

They will.

They will.

You'll have traffic pulling into that service road from both sides.

As you do now.

Yeah, but nobody uses it.

I mean, and it's uh Chipotle's are popular.

I I don't think that you're gonna see this being like an all-day long line of traffic trying to get in there.

I mean, there's going to be people that pull in for their lunch and pull back out.

And it's designed it this very purpose of the drive-up window is to is to get people in and out very, very fast.

Do they have seating?

Uh they will probably have limited seating in there.

I mean, Chipotle ASAP for our small, it's more of a takeout model, but they do have limited seating.

Do you think it matched to a safety issue at all?

Well, I will always say notwithstanding poor judgment of public drivers, but you know, being private property, it does meet drive-by widths.

It meets uh the backing out of 90 degree parking standard widths.

Um if I can go back, let's see here.

I'd like to show let's see.

I can zoom out here.

What'll happen here?

Well, gosh, mighty, they're they're building everything.

What's happening over here is the exact same thing in existence.

This easement comes around, and you'll notice when you drive through here, you know, we have parking all along the bypass, but we we have maintained a wide enough drive aisle per our standards all the way up to this stop bar, which would then also carry right on straight through here and out.

It's it's essentially identical, and and these guys have met the same criteria that Chipotle will ultimately have to meet as well through the plan review process.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you all very much.

Appreciate it.

Thank you.

And Ms.

Perkins, I don't think I don't think you're entirely wrong.

I just think we just I just think I just think we disagree on uh sometimes we do on uh on exactly how bad the effects will be.

I would say I'd like to lodge complaint, uh, even on a plan review.

I get to talk to you guys just all the time, and then uh Rodney had a five-minute zone change.

You get you get the hard ones though.

I do, I do.

Sorry, thank you all for next on the agenda is the uh zone determination or wedding venue.

Rodney If you would, Mr.

Chairman, I'll uh we don't have to.

I'll have some comments at the end of the uh discussion.

Say it again.

What's the address?

116 we we may have saved the hard one actually for last time.

I I really don't know.

Um I don't know.

Uh Tyler, do you want us to take off or do you want to set the table?

What just go ahead.

Oh, okay.

Can you pull up a map?

There you go.

116, correct?

116 million.

Can you tighten that up just a little bit?

Yeah, so to to set the table for the commission just a little bit.

Um several months ago, probably six months ago, I had started a discussion with Tyler Frazier about uh Kim's potential use of this property.

As some of you may or may not know, this was Gilbert Miller's former house on Miller Drive, and originally that space was uh licensed for a uh uh multi-use uh I guess stepped rehab facility if I'm using the right word.

Resident treatment residential treatment.

Um there was a lot of pushback from the neighborhood.

Um I think that was probably probably had some traction that that you folks heard about some time.

And you know, wanting to be a good member of the community, we've kind of thought of maybe some other ways that we could use the property.

It's it's a beautiful track of land.

The house is very uh historic looking, it's it's part of that neighborhood.

And when I started talking to Mr.

Frazier, the idea of an event venue came up, uh like small wedding venue, something along those lines.

And when we started looking at the comprehensive plan, there's not really a conditional use or a use that describes that anywhere.

So our plan was to come to this commission and say, okay, you give us what how do you deem this use and where do we fit in your comprehensive plan and ask for uh a determination of that.

Um, and that's why we're here.

We're we're open to a discussion, I guess, for lack of a better word.

Kevin, I does that sure.

Um I did a little research.

So you know, in when you look at a waiting venue, you know, we have a lot of explicit categories in our land use chart, which some are a little vague, some are very explicit.

So instead of just looking at a wedding venue and having another explicit use, I thought of social assembly.

Now a waiting venue can be categorized by the Kentucky Building Code as as being an assembly or an event area.

So maybe we shouldn't focus on just a wedding venue as we should a and an assembly of some type.

So that way we we have a much more friendly uh adaptation that we as staff can look at that and say, okay, if it's a social assembly, we can say waiting venue fits into that, and then we're able to move forward.

Um but what we what we're tasked with today is that you know, also churches are certainly a assembly, but it's explicit.

So I don't want to go back and redefine you know what an assembly is and start pulling in churches and and schools and parks and recreation, which may fall under that same term, but since they are listed individually and they have conditional uses and and whatnot in different zones, I think we should leave those particular items alone.

But if you entertained a social assembly, then it could apply to the remainder of those smaller items, such as a waiting venue.

So if we think about where we would want those, then maybe social events and things should should play in your mind on how that will reflect to you know whether we allow it in a residential zone or any of our commercial zones or or what have.

So with that being said, you know, I also have in my motor vehicle parking standards, you know, a term called mass assembly, which doesn't sort of correlate with our use charts, but we do have something in there so that we can determine parking and things of that nature associated with those certain types of uses.

We just need to get out of the weeds first so that we can apply parking standards or what what may apply.

Um so quickly, you know, our churches are permitted in R2, R3, B1, B2, B3, P1, PUD, NAG.

Sort of an assembly, but it's it's individualized.

Uh churches are conditional in R1A's, B's, C's, and B4s.

So again, I think we should think about how really you're going to impact any surrounding zone if you pick a zone or zones.

So I I think individualizing uh uh a bit of language, I would recommend social assembly, and then essentially up to you guys as to what zones you felt necessary.

Yeah, and if I can just follow up with that, uh I use a term wedding venue, but I think if you speak to her, we're looking at at things like retirement parties, birthday parties, uh things reunions, things of that nature.

So I I think individualizing uh uh a bit of language I would recommend social assembly and then essentially up to you guys as to what zones you felt necessary yeah and I if I can just follow up with that I use a turb wedding venue but I think if you speak to her we're looking at at things like retirement parties birthday parties uh things reunions things of that nature I'm not looking at a I don't think we're looking at a mass uh huge uh venue space I would uh call it almost light assembly might you know what I'm saying very uh low density type events uh which it's a large enough track of land that this particular track I think would lend itself to that so and in social assembly that's a good that's a good compromise term that's uh I think that makes some sense in in the Kentucky building code there's actually a broad term for the definition of assembly there's actually three different versions of this but to keep it very simple um through our use charts you know assembly can also be dictated by eating and drinking establishments it can also be uh defined as uh public transit where you waiting on the bus and there's five people that that is an assembly um so if if we work with social assembly and then get a definition from the public as to what they're doing or or whatever project is then we can figure out okay we have something it can fall in with a little thought process of of where these items might need to be and then we as staff can run with it.

We've got churches we've got bars we've got uh all that stuff spec out individualized so I don't think that'll ever be a problem we just need that little go-to section to suck in all of these things like the birthday parties and and the graduation parties and uh well maybe I shouldn't say parties that's probably a bad word uh assemblies uh or events um and if if we can find a home for that language I think it it would help us out greatly and it needs to be under R1 and R2 also I mean it would have to be almost across the board because they're an R1 that's up to you that's what you guys are but there are a lot of lovely old homes that yeah which that fits it's 102 years out so right too many one in our door move it right next to houses and stuff no but that's where she is and there are a lot of older homes that are gosh that are just beautiful that are in the midst um you know smaller homes have gone up around it but you sell there'd be a lovely place to have a lot of you do R1 anybody that comes in besides her two can put it in our own area but if we do it uh R1 conditional then you would have you would have to meet all of your other requirements yeah you don't have so much space around you or parking or it's almost four acres yeah oh I know what you're talking about I think it's perfect I think it's a great idea but we have to that they would be a lot of language deciding factors through plan review you know you know we hear parking a lot you know you could you can have a a beautiful house three stories but it's set on a one acre or I'm sorry a one eighth acre lot and you you can't pull off the parking now parking is established by my counterpart in the other department and myself and if you can't pull off that parking to house you know the people then you would not be able unfortunately to do that in this case they they have quite a bit to mow so um you know you could look at this in light of if you let's give you an example if if you did not do residential you know then their option would be a conditional use uh they would seek a conditional use for this property through the board of adjustments but if you happen to agree that this particular zone is adequate with all of the other regulations that would fall it in the background downstairs if you think that would be ample enough to protect a residential zone this is a business and if they want to do it just change the zone but I think it should be a B2 or B3.

I don't think you should put it in our area conditional otherwise it's a business and if if they want to change the zoning that's fine I mean you know because it's right up front it's not backed by the homes etc so I think that would be the better way to do it.

When anybody comes in it's got to be where business area is but that's spot zoning right can we do that well it's out to the front area so it's really not spot zoning it's really just it's really not a home anymore.

It's really a well it could be spite zoning is really more you got R1s on both sides and you take and you put a business in the middle that's really spot zoning it's you know you're changing the area this really has moved out if I call right and it's it would be competent I mean I could put a 7 eleven there whatever I mean you know if I said you don't want to change it to B.

I mean, I could put a 7-Eleven there, whatever.

I mean, you know, if I read it, you don't want to change it to B.

Yeah, I'm uh I don't want to I don't want to disagree because I understand I guess some of your thought process, but really if if you look at this area, it it is residential, all but the old nursery that's on the back side of that one street.

So you know you're gonna connect on 2nd Street Red House Road that is a highly traveled road, right?

But and I'm uniquely because I own all the properties, I own all the units on the other side of the street from her, all the rental units and all the units that Gilbert owned on the back side of her.

So that's all heavily, I guess, residential.

So I I you guys can step in here.

I think you'd have a tough time making it a B zone uh given some of those dynamics.

But I think across the board, and I when I think when I thought of this project, Lynnwood kind of came to my mind because it's it's got a lot of acreage with it, and it's a house that you can do this light assembly at without putting a lot of pressure on a on a neighborhood.

So I would see no reason you couldn't do it in R1, R2, whatever it was, as long as they they came to a plan that would meet your conditional use requirements, parking, uh traffic flow, noise, all those things that she would still have to comply with.

So I don't I respectfully I don't think you would be opening it up to a business because it would be the same thing in my mind as a church or a park.

You've got some cars, but it's not like you have a mass influx like you would at a drive-thru or something like that.

So I think it's a very light use.

I I I'm not sure that be a business zone would be appropriate there, and I would defer to them to that.

But it's not really a residential thing either.

It's obviously not.

I mean, you know, you you're you're having venues, you're making money off of it.

It's a business.

So I I know why they don't want to do that, and I understand that use.

It's it's not it's not a heavy business use.

It's it's almost what I would consider a short-term term rental use.

You know, if if you wanted to make it into an Airbnb, it would be a short-term use of that, and I'm I'm just using that example.

Or let's say you want to make it a bed and breakfast, which is what you would see in maybe some houses like this.

Still low intensity use, there may be an event there for three or four hours and then nothing for days.

So it's not I I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it's a true business use.

It wouldn't be something like a daily use all the time, would it yeah, it just wouldn't be and I and at least for this property.

I I perception is that there's a lot of support for this use as opposed to other potential uses that it could so if if we can approve it with conditional and you kind of help us set the standards for or that's a different I don't know who does that boards.

I I don't know who would set all the standards, but well, if if you chose some zones or zone or whatever, you know, you would like, you know, we would we would apply that once the applications come in or a development plan or or what have you.

If if it doesn't meet that criteria, then you're off to the board of adjustments, or if you're not in that zone, you're off to a conditional use to see if you can get that.

Um thing that's happening here is to understand that you know an assembly.

I can't I just want to refer to an assembly.

We're we're lacking that descriptive term in our land use um charts.

So I think ever how this goes.

I think it would be wonderful if we if we got something, you know, whatever you all would like to decide.

And then if it was inclusive of this properties uh zoning, fine, we c we can move forward with you know regulations and things that we'll need.

Um and we'll handle that downstairs.

But we got to get there.

So if we don't have uh a zoning listed for this type of use, we're sort of dead in the water.

Um the only other option then would be to seek a conditional use just for the property, and that would go before the Board of Adjustments, and then that would be up to them if they were to allow that.

I hope it hope you know, I would hope that it would do very well.

And you know, you're gonna be putting a lot of effort and a lot of money into it and all that.

But I I have got a daughter getting ready to get married, and I've been to a lot of wedding venues, and these things are booked well in advance, like every week.

So you think that you I hope it works good for you.

You hope you got somebody there every week.

But that is a lot of people, you know, you think about it because they walk all kind of come in in mass, they may dribble out when they leave, but they'll be coming in because they have to be there a certain time.

You could have you know a couple of hundred people easily coming in all at one time that everybody else kind of has to contend with just to fall out.

But the residential and I that's a that's a good observation, but I think we would come to the to the city with a plan for all of that.

That's that's the backfill.

He's right right now, there's no definition in the comprehensive plan at all for this, and that's what we've struggled with, trying to trying to fit it into a class and into a space.

So that's what the only thing you're doing is giving us the opportunity to try to put a shoe into that space, uh, and by definition be able to put a plan together so we know what the parameters of that would be to come forward.

So Kevin, really, if we just classify this as an assembly and allow assemblies on conditional uses, it goes back to you.

It would it would go before the board of adjustments.

Well, I mean if okay.

As a as a conditional use, they would present a development plan or a plan.

A plan.

And then we would intake that, we would look at the chart, see the conditional use, board of adjustments would be then identified, they'd be put on that agenda, they would go before that board, have a much same a similar discussion like we're having now, and then a judgment would be rendered for that particular property.

Uh if that board deems it being okay, then they would or would not get that conditional use, and then if they do, that's that will happen.

Or we just classify it as an assembly, whatever you want to call it, and then okay, which zones that assembly can go in, and then that would get away from the board of adjustments altogether.

You could um some may be permitted, some may be conditional, depending on what you would like to choose.

Um if one is not listed, then it that is the message that you're dead in water.

It's we've visited this uh um ordeal here and we've chosen and you know, as moving forward.

Let's say I'll use I2.

We can't do it in I two, and then somebody has a piece of property that's strangely in I2 and they want to do a you know a waiting venue, the the answer from us as staff would be no because it's not listed in the plan.

Yeah, correct.

So you're dead in the water going in when the I2 may be completely perfect location for a brewery or a restaurant or whatever it might be that would toll hold into that, okay, but isn't and that's an example is not necessarily listed.

We're just looking to be listed so that we can come forward with the plan, and we know like our base parameters of what we have to present.

So, what verbiage do we need to make this an assembly and put it into the words?

Well, what what we'll have to do is is entertain discussion.

Uh Tyler, did you present them with uh a list?

Well, what we'll need to do is choose zones that that that you deem appropriate to whether it be conditional or permitted or not.

Umce that is chosen and an official vote for that, then we would send that to city commission.

Once that is approved, that will go into my development ordinance, and then we're off and running as to where we need to be to create a path forward.

So if you happen to uh want suggestions or anything of that nature, you know, we can certainly take those suggestions and create uh a listing for you for review, or you're very welcome to choose some zones and if you deem appropriate to vote on that, and we'll make sure that that is listed in a chart, and we'll we'll move that up the chain to the city commission.

So we know you're going to do the zones now one by one.

Is that what we'd have to do?

Whatever they would uh pick the zones, and we just I mean they would have them, then we just pick whatever's on conditional along with it.

I mean it's I would encourage you to make it a conditional use in every zone because you're going to fall back to whatever the specifications are for each zone.

Just because you open it up to each zone doesn't mean you're opening the door to it.

You still got to meet all your requirements.

So why wouldn't you do it in every zone and let whoever had this light assembly, whatever it might be, come forward with a plan.

I'm I'm I would say a conditional is what I would be thinking.

Because then you're still controlling it.

In a sense, uh I would caution, you know, not in every zone.

Uh I would not recommend I one, I two or ag.

If you know a lot of folks might like AG, but you know, AG place it's just a placeholder, and if we get something like a social assembly that's approved, it will never be anything else than AG, and we'll be left with AG for who knows how long.

You're gonna have to change the definition of R1, R2, and R3 then because it says nowhere near about that.

That's social assembly.

Well, it's with the conditional use.

Conditional.

You still need to change the definition of what R1 is, R2, R3.

You can't just say conditional and then just say, okay, I'm gonna put it in residential.

There has to be some change to it.

Well, that that we've got to split up so that the size lot.

So if you put it in R1, the lots wouldn't want to be so big.

It's all you could do.

And and that's where you know limitations going to fall.

If you're if they can't meet parking requirements or or any of those bells and whistles on a lot, like I say it's eighth acre, super tiny, then it won't work because we'll calculate parking most of the time based on seating in this case for assembly.

And that may indicate I'll be facetious here.

They may indicate a hundred parking spaces.

So naturally that is not doable.

I mean, you could add that in, you know, to the definition, but you're gonna have to do something.

You can't just keep it R1.

That makes no sense.

Well, you would keep it R1, you would change the conditional uses in R1.

You change that part of the ordinance that deals with what's a conditional use, right?

And then the guidelines are determined in house depending on the space and the occupancy and the needed parking.

So if I buy an eight-acre lot and decide I want to try to do a wedding venue, that's not gonna fly with us, won't be approved as a conditional use to do that.

If it's probably like this, it obviously has plenty of space.

Well, yes, that'll work.

And I think what you're both saying is that you know, if it didn't meet all the regulations, it would never get to BOA in the first place.

Yeah.

Right.

So like an R3, it's just not gonna fit in there.

So that one or an R2, those are due, you know, that that's not gonna work.

And I don't know.

I think it's well.

There's a a million different scenarios to be the devil's advocate if you had an R3 lot that had nothing on it at all.

Oh and it was a quarter acre or a half acre.

You certainly could do that.

Okay.

That that's why I was advocating that I understand not every zone, but for as many zones as you can, because just how many residential homes are there left in Richmond that are on four acre lots, right?

What if that were a duplex on that four-acre lots, you wouldn't want to be able to do the same thing, whether it was R1 or R3.

Just from a use standpoint.

That's true.

So you could make a motion tonight and get a second and vote on making this a conditional use in all zones except for industrial and agriculture.

And mobile home.

Am I missing something there?

P I believe.

Yeah, that's right.

PSPs and things.

But I don't understand against agricultural.

Because there are a lot of wedding venues that are in barns.

That's true.

So I wouldn't deny that.

So that would be more appropriate.

Sure.

Actually, in agricultural.

I mean, you would put it in that, etc.

rather than residential.

I mean, because the lands more, it can handle the traffic better, probably.

It's it's just a realization through the comp plan efforts that you know we're we don't want agriculture land as a city.

So if we start introducing uh or permitted uses within agriculture, then we're able to develop agricultural land through these assembly uh little little holes and things.

And and I ain't saying it will or it won't, but you could run into some things that will become placeholders forever.

And I think to his point, you could always you talked about doing a re zoning change application.

If you had an agricultural track and you didn't have that in there, you could always come in and ask for a portion of it to be rezoned.

Would probably be a much easier, a much easier application than something like this.

So I mean, but I get your point.

I mean, if it's a big open track, that seemed would fit this well.

So your point's taken there.

Yeah.

I just would like to see us move the ball forward tonight and not have to come back in 30 days and then another 30 days commission and then it would be a second reading, wouldn't it?

So we want to see levels.

So you're looking at if you don't push the ball forward tonight, you're looking at at least 60 days before something's in place, probably longer than that, actually.

So the only places right now we don't want it would be industrial.

If I may I think the thinking correctly if I'm wrong.

I think the thinking is not I2 or I1.

I would assume you wouldn't want it in a professional office space, think engineers, doctors, and all that.

Public Park PSP public service semi public.

We said yes to AG as conditional.

Yes.

No.

No, yes.

Yeah, we want to Okay.

Um PUDs.

I think farms at Barnes Mill.

No, I would assume that.

Mobile home parks, I would assume.

No, right.

But that everything else would be a does it meet the regulations or not.

So and you said PUDs, no.

Yeah.

Okay.

So do we want to make a motion?

For conditional use of a wedding venue.

Oh assembly.

Assembly.

Social assembly.

And everything it is.

It is.

For an ex it with the exception of I1, I two, MPs, and PUDs.

And you said P1 and AG.

P1 and P1.

And what?

An ag yes and AG.

Okay.

That would be that would be the mo that would be the motion if you're making it.

That's the motion I'm making.

Don't let me restate it.

Perfectly fine.

Okay.

And more.

I'll serve you.

Okay.

Sorry.

Commissioner Francis.

Yes.

Commissioner Short.

Yes.

Commissioner Miller.

I have misgivings about doing an R1, an R2, and R3.

I really do.

So I'm going to say no.

Okay.

Commissioner Perkins?

Yes.

Commissioner Miles?

No.

Commissioner Sell?

Yes.

Okay.

Thanks so much.

Motion passes.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Next on the agenda.

Thank you all.

Is the zone determination for shooting range?

Kevin.

Is anybody here for that?

Yes.

Yeah.

Well, again, it's sort of a repeat.

We we need a uh zoning classification uh in our use charts for you know uh firearms and a firing range.

So uh perhaps with our uh experience from our our last item, what we're after is an effective zone that you feel is necessary or compatible with the uh a firearm range.

I'm asking what the location he's at now wants to put it.

What what zone is that?

Um what is the location right now where he's at is business?

It is a B3.

B three.

So we couldn't leave it a B3 with a shooting range.

Well, what you would want would be to create the term shooting range or associated firearms or shooting range.

This would include archery all the way down to slingshot, you know.

So this would be the whole scenario that we would take in.

Um if you allow something like that choose choose a zone, we would create a home for that in our land use chart, and then again, we would then be able to move forward.

Um we're not here for you know what efforts are put in place.

We we would have to handle that.

The only thing that we would need uh from this body would be where can we do that?

And so um we can look we can look at a lot of different zones naturally.

Some are going to be pretty easy to determine that it's not necessary there or inappropriate, but uh you know these if if you do a firing range, I can assure you that the safety involved um with those with that equipment uh areas, whatever you want to call them, they're pretty intense.

I've I've seen Daniel's list that uh he's he shared with me.

And I would not worry about safety that's gonna come.

We just we we uh even noise, noise ventilation, noise, yeah.

Capturing lead.

I mean, there's some serious guys.

They're gonna dispose of lead, they have to be checked, I believe, don't hold it to it, but monthly, sometimes even weekly.

Um they're pretty intense facilities.

So we've got three zones, yeah.

We've got agriculture, you have B3 and you have industrial.

Industrial sounds good.

I personally think agriculture will still be fine, but you don't like things under agricultural, you totally.

We just said that.

So straight act.

Of course, we're trying to get rid of it as much as that.

Okay.

I think it's a great place for it, but it would be.

I I did my firearm training on a farm.

Uh super safe, but now I didn't do it in a uh enclosed area.

It was against a bank.

Uh, yeah, but this will be in a closed area if you put it on agricultural.

But I guess what I'm getting at, he wants to put it in the same location where he's got his business now, right?

Which is B3, yes, yeah.

And uh you know how how are you gonna do that?

Change that.

It's already conditional.

There is no firing range there right now.

Huh?

There is no firing range there now?

No.

Right.

I'm saying there isn't, and so this would be all he's got is just a gun store there.

Right.

That this would allow him to go ask for a one from BOA.

Because we don't have a classification where that needs to be.

Yep.

I I'm thinking B3 and industrial ag I don't know, I can't figure that out.

If if it's B3 now, right?

And it and is and is and his place is right, they right there next to each other.

That would make it work for it where he is.

That's what I'm saying to make it.

Yeah.

Keep it as a B3.

You think it, Kevin?

Or would it be Yeah?

I mean, with with what I know about the technicality involved in what is necessary to achieve a shooting range, I would not be too afraid of any of our business zones.

Um certainly some are in strange locations, B2s and things might be right in the middle of the town, might be a little strange.

I think highway business, B3, you know, across the board, we have B3s a little everywhere, don't get me wrong.

But under the definition of B3, that is highway business that should be outside of our core.

So if we look at that language of what a B3 is, this will push shooting ranges and that activity to the outskirts of town, which one would assume, at least I would, where you would want them.

Um agriculture, certainly outside uh our core uh industrial, be careful.

We have several industrial lots, which might introduce a whole new world to uh a use for those lots.

Uh Estel Street is contaminated with industrial lots that is much bigger in this room.

Um you might open up an opportunity if you list industrial.

Um we would always check with our industrial board or anything down there, they have rules, regulations, covenants, and restrictions and things.

So, you know, even if you allow it, it doesn't mean in some of uh our industrial area that it would make it that far.

But you could certainly include it because we have other industrial zones peppered all over the city, and again, you may open up opportunity for those tiny lots.

When I just as a note, when I spoke to Mr.

Stipes yesterday about industrial, he had personally he had no issue with conditional and I one.

He just recommended nothing in I2 because everything in the industrial park is I2.

And so he would prefer that to not even be an option at all, which is what's in front of you.

So by taking that out, you would certainly avoid a lengthy process of a no.

So if it's not allowed to keep it in an I1, that would that'd be great.

I don't know that our population can support more than one gun range.

Support what?

More than one gun range.

I mean, you've got that I know of maybe one in Lexington, maybe two.

Buds.

It's gone.

I think it looks like it's an industrial.

I've been up there several times.

That's all industry back there, isn't it?

Shopping so the reason they don't have many of them is because it's so expensive.

Yeah.

And the liability.

That makes sense.

Yeah, it really is.

I think they've got enough here, but it's of course you've got somebody gonna have deep pockets to build this and insurance.

And you got to have like you've got to have a fair amount of people.

Yeah.

And you gotta be in the right area.

That's it.

These lots may be expensive to get too.

What's the B4?

B4 is best described as a dying zone.

Um B4s are our shopping centers.

Uh the last B4 that succumbed to that was uh I believe what was that?

The Heritage Heritage Place had a B4 in the front of it that that returned to a B3, which was most rightful to it.

But uh the I believe the Richmond Mall.

Um just uh looked at um the peddler's mall, that's B4.

Uh but there they're I think there's only three left.

Yeah, there's actually no problem.

Well, is there no more conversation on this?

Okay.

So are we looking for to determine a zone tonight?

I thought so, yeah.

Yeah.

Do what?

We're we're actually looking for you all to designate some zones for these tonight.

If you're comfortable doing so, if not we can wait till the next meeting, but again, it's nice to move the ball forward.

I think you need to stay out of AG.

Okay.

If you don't want to draw on eggs, stay out of it.

Yeah.

So you don't want to do act.

Well, I mean, I'm on I'm gonna cause a problem here, like we did, you know, though.

I think it needs to stay in B3 and I one, maybe.

I think so.

Okay, I'll make a motion that we approve the uh shooting range uh zoning for B3 and I one.

Okay.

I'll take it.

Yes.

Commissioner Francis?

Yes.

Commissioner Short?

Yes.

Commissioner Miller.

Yes.

Commissioner Perkins.

Commissioner Miles.

Yes.

Yes, yes.

Thanks so much.

Uh other business.

Can you pull up baker for I've got one for you tonight?

We have I would say there's approximately eight, nine residents on Baker Court that want to be rezoned to R1.

So currently, currently I think there are two zoning classification.

And when they got their 911 fee letters, it was brought to their attention that they were actually at an R2 and didn't even know it.

And so there's been about nine of them here on Baker Court.

If Tyler can pull that up.

Sure.

That wanna be rezoned from R2 to R1.

Baker Court, that's that's it right there.

I didn't bring the list of addresses with me, but I certainly can provide them to you.

I believe it's right.

There's about I think there's nine of them.

Oh, that's right next to the cemetery.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, that's yeah, it's all residential.

And they're just concerned about it being R2 and somebody buying the house next to them and turning it into rental with several people in there.

There's already quite a few of those.

Yeah, there is.

I got it.

Maybe a suggestion on this on the legal counsel.

Uh if they do that.

Is it any way that they can sign off on it?

I don't like us want this like we had on high street.

Absolutely.

They came back.

I made it clear they would they would have to fill out some of the case.

They would have to have application and sign off on it.

That's right.

Rather than wait and then come back to change the mines and oh, I don't I decide I didn't want to.

Mr.

Chairman, I I'm with you.

They they sent me a uh a tablet sheet with a list on it with a signature next to it.

And I called the gal that's kind of spearheading this, and I told her I said we gotta do official applications just for what happened on high street.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I I'm I'm I'm poor, but you know, I just think that they need to sign off on something and don't change the mind.

Yeah, it's just like this is don't change their mind on that's right.

I agree with y'all.

So you're gonna do it house by house.

There's already a lot of rent.

Yeah, we'll actually give her the application, she'll distribute them, bring them to us, and then we'll start, we'll facilitate the process first.

So it'll all be official on an application.

Um yeah, that's the best way to do it.

Short of when they can they have to have them submitted by this date and no nothing afterwards would you all entertain that if we went down that road yeah okay awesome we'll start the process okay we got a decorate report any reports on that I just had a uh sort of cheat sheet uh next month you may see uh an item on the agenda uh pertaining to you know shelters um I've put together just some things we don't we're not we don't need to talk about it but you can take home with you it's something I've sort of put together to jar the memories and show you some things to to be aware of as we move forward um but most likely that will be an item on next month's agenda so I'll I'll pass these out at the end of the meeting for you and just take them home think about them make an airplane out of them what you whatever you'd like to do and then uh but but that's all I have.

The the one other item I had is you probably saw this in the newspaper but the city did receive a two million dollar grant to purchase uh new property for industrial and a business park and so the the Burnham farm off of Duncan which sits where the big Ramsey house is just to the left of it yeah thank you um we're in the process we'll have a meeting next week with the Richmond Industrial Development Board and move forward with a closing date on that property it's a hundred and eighty nine acres right here at fronts Duncan it backs up to our industrial park three and it is currently um zoned agriculture and we'll be coming to you all to have it rezoned to I two uh we've done all the due diligence a phase one a phase two um there is an archaeological mound on the property where the entrance needs to go so we're working with the transportation cabinet about moving that entrance down or working around it but um we are running out of industrial development property and this is a really good project for us and this is closer to uh the Berea Road or closer to 75 uh closer to Berea Road yeah yeah it's actually this big section right here yeah is that right where the what is that building there for the health uh extension office yeah is it near there um I'm trying to it's right down the road office is right in his own down right here um so you come up around the corner there's a row of about seven houses in that corner yeah and then the next property over is the farm yeah purchasing yeah okay and like I said it it it attaches to the back of our industrial part three and uh this is the third PDI grant we've got in a row so that's it's the purchase price is about four million and seven hundred and forty four thousand dollars we got a two million dollar grant the city's matching the difference um Duncan Lane is really the golden corridor for industrial development with all the utilities in place so thank uh they come in about the homeless type problem that we got you know but what we want to do about it etc well you're talking about that shouldn't we have a workshop and talk about it before we just get something presented to us at the meeting absolutely I think that's a very difficult situation and would you want to see inside the you know the city levels do you want the outside the city what you want how do you want to handle this because this is a long term problem that you need to have some solutions to and so far nobody's had any solutions to most places.

So we've got we've got a representative right we talked about doing that after she went to a meeting so I I think it would be some information about it sit down and talk about it so that when we come to the meeting we're a little more educated about it.

Did y'all make it to Louisville?

Huh?

That was just asking her I'm sorry we're going next week okay so I say maybe after they come back from there.

Okay.

After they come back from Louisville.

Yeah I think work sessions would be very helpful for us before big agendas we want a really good solution.

We want to decide where we're going with it what we're gonna do etc.

We're gonna place you know uh facilities to help them et cetera for food shelter etc.

So we need to kind of get our ball get everything out.

So I think uh Kevin I do got one question.

from the little yeah I think work sessions would be very helpful for us before big agendas we want a really good solution we have decided where we're going to look at what we're going to do etc we're going to place you know uh facilities to help them et cetera for food shelter etc so we need to kind of get our ball get everything out so I think uh Kevin I've got one question where are we at with these developers and their hydrant heights and sidewalks that they didn't want to pour in the spring and we've had hot weather now for four months and well not to put you on the spot uh no I caught up with David some time ago and we we had long discussion where we're at and uh he's he's my hammer he's done a great job he is ensuring uh you know we we had a long training session and uh he's thinking ahead he's I'm very proud of him he's actually looking for any of these new developments uh we're even doubling it up if uh we find on individual house uh construction after the subdivisions are built we get the opportunity to go back as planning and zoning to look at the yards side yard soils this that and the other trees what have you and if that builder has covered that fire hydrant up it's a second opportunity to make sure at the end of the line that you know things like that are taken care of um we have got several of them sewed up um I do know that there has been in-house uh decision making for uh the completion of some of these subdivisions um most now are actually on schedule there we've got a few coming up but the uh currently there's they're still legal eagles um and but we've already had conversation what we're experiencing now is that we're getting out in front of it you know whatever happened in the past doesn't matter 20 30 years ago we're out in front of it now so our developers are now communicating they understand the process they know their time constraints and even if they forget we're we're sending them a letter David is out there constantly um uh GIS is now inhabiting the subdivisions and and he's aware of what's going on along with myself so we we've got a real watchful eye on where we're at so we don't get into that shape that we were in that we had to start cleaning up so but where we were at this past fall how are those guys doing with their work that they committed to us mostly done most deadline yeah most have completed them I know I've released three letter of credits you know after you all have uh approved them and stuff we've got I think we'll have two more coming up probably in the next two months um and and they're chasing you know to get these things done before winter time gets here but uh uh it's it's looking overall fairly well uh it's it's not a problem that I would consider as severe as it was uh we've chopped probably sixty sixty five percent of that away and now it's just developments that are the extenuation of phases and so as long as they're in there working we're not dealing with individual subdivisions that have come and they've gone and they're done and we're having chase people um the folks that we're working with are our phased people that they have continuing subdivisions so we're we're we're looking good overall and I'd I'd certainly give you a list of of all the things that have been updated uh currently and and taken care of and what we have left I can certainly provide that okay thank you someone else not I just want to adjourn it anyway should we adjourn thank you all