Hello, hello.

Good evening.

We'd like to welcome everyone this evening to the Richmond Planning and Zoning Meeting.

Uh, Clerk called the role, please.

Sure, Commissioner Grant.

Here.

Commissioner Francis.

Here.

Commissioner Short.

Here.

Commissioner Miller.

Commissioner Perkins.

Commissioner Miles.

Commissioner South.

Here.

Thanks so much.

Next on the agenda is approval of the September fourth, twenty twenty-five meeting minutes.

If I want to set a chance to look over those, and I'll need a motion on those police.

Yeah, there is one correction that Commissioner Perkins mentioned on the second page.

But other than that.

I don't know.

I don't remember.

I will confirm.

Cool.

Yeah.

Correction.

I'll make it no clear I'll just make a motion.

We approve the the uh meeting minutes uh for September 4th, 2025 uh per uh corrections.

Oh second.

Okay.

Commissioner Grant.

Yes, Commissioner Francis.

I'll stay in is not present.

Sure, Commissioner Short.

Yes, Commissioner Miller.

Yes, Commissioner Perkins.

Yes, Commissioner Miles, Commissioner Stell.

Yes.

Before we get into the next agenda like to introduce Mr.

Chris Johnson, new city attorney.

Welcome.

Well, thanks, sir.

Happy to be here.

I would say you got your feet wet, you probably ankles are wet now.

I mean it needs all the wet now.

I told Rob I packed some water wings, so he can just toss me in the deep end and I'll try to swim.

So it's it's good.

Okay.

Uh next on the agenda is election of chair.

Uh the floor is now open for nomination of the position.

Are there any nominations?

Okay.

Uh I'd like to nominate Dr.

Miller for chair.

I would like to nominate Keith Eugene on as the chair personal year.

Are there any more nominations?

I move to close nominations.

Okay.

Got a motion to close.

Might get a second.

Second.

Why don't we do this by ballot?

Don't you think cook a ballot?

There's no no under open records in in the state of Kentucky.

Uh Dr.

Miller, there is no provision for, and I didn't know it was called an Australian ballot until this came up.

A secret ballot is referred to in the legal world as an Australian ballot.

Any action taken by a public body in the state of Kentucky must be done openly and on the record.

Okay.

Happy to clarify.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

We've had a motion closed and a second.

Has there been any other requirements?

Okay.

Before we proceed with the vote, uh each nominee would be given a chance to speak.

But uh we need to have a motion for the names clerk.

All right, yeah.

So let's see.

This is just to close the nomination.

Yeah.

Yeah, you closed the yes.

Commissioner Francis.

Yes.

Commissioner Short?

Yes.

Commissioner Miller.

Yes.

Commissioner Perkins.

Commissioner Miles.

Yes.

Commissioner Estell?

Yes.

Thanks so much.

Okay.

Next would be before we proceed to vote.

And I would be given the insert to speak.

But Lee would need to go to the uh nomination.

Yeah, so I mean at this point, both both the nominees can give a statement if you would like.

Yeah.

Once that is done, then the process would be to have a roll call vote.

Okay.

So that would be the um the first nominee was nominated, Dr.

Miller.

Oh, okay.

I think uh some of the things we could do on the board a little better.

I think uh it needs a little closer observation on some things.

I would like to do some things by rezoning.

Some of the areas aren't zoned properly.

I'd like to proceed with some of that kind of thing.

Um I would also like to make more parliamentary uh procedures that we don't do.

Uh we're supposed to be parliamentary rules, Robert's rules order, and we're not doing that.

Um that can sometimes cause problems.

So I'd like to just tighten it up a little bit.

New zoning, new uh maybe be a little more proactive with the uh comprehensive plan and things like that about us working on it.

Things like that I'd like to do.

My concern is I've I've been on it now for what this is 18 years in August, and there are some things that we can do, but I think that um we need to go through some of the changes with director, city managers, as far as some things what we do.

Um as far as zoning, there are guidelines that we have to go by as far as is what we zone.

And I think with the uh workshop sessions that we have, I think we can get a clear, better clear understanding on that.

On the comprehensive care, comprehensive plan not to care, but comprehensive.

There's a lot of work to that.

And I think we need more expertise, somebody in that field really to work with us on that.

I remember when Dr.

Marino, of course, he has some expertise to it with up Red Eastern and he knew exactly, but it I think the plan is only yes, should have some input into it, but yet we need to outside what we have now to really to really work on that.

Okay, with that being said, uh we're now proceed with the uh roll call.

Okay, so it says each member should state the name of the nominee they are voting for.

Just so they're you're clear.

Okay.

Let's see if I can do this and not mess it up.

Commissioner De Grant?

Mr.

Still.

Okay, Commissioner Francis.

Mr.

Still.

Commissioner Short.

Dr.

Miller.

Okay.

Commissioner, I guess they vote for themselves.

Do they vote quickly?

Okay.

Commissioner Miller.

I would assume so.

Commissioner Perkins.

Commissioner Miles.

Mr.

Listel.

And Commissioner Stell.

Myself.

Okay.

That is Commissioner Stell with four.

Dr.

Miller with three.

We would need the uh results of the uh of the votes, names.

Yeah, so uh Commissioner Stell with four votes.

Commissioner Miller with three.

So the majority of vote is required to elect.

And I think that's your part as chair.

The next one.

Okay.

Okay, we now receive the um majority of votes hereby elected chair.

That is that's you.

Thank you.

Okay.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

And then do we do the same process for your vice chair?

Okay.

Okay.

The next on the agenda is election for vice chair.

Okay.

May I get um nomination?

I'll nominate Ms.

Miles.

I'll nominate Dr.

Miller.

Okay.

Are there any more nominations?

Okay, may I get a motion?

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

So to close nominations for Vice Chair.

Commissioner De Grant?

Yes.

Commissioner Francis.

Yes.

Commissioner Short?

Yes.

Commissioner Miller?

Yes.

Commissioner Perkins?

Yes.

Commissioner Miles?

Yes.

Commissioner Stell?

Yes.

Okay.

Let's see.

And then the time to speak, I believe, is next.

Yeah.

The uh nominees that have each one have a to speak.

Do I have to speak?

No.

No?

No.

No, just the nominees whose number.

No.

No.

Okay.

No one.

Okay.

Okay.

And then let's see.

Oh, okay.

So this is now the vote.

So again, you'll say whoever you would like to be, Vice Chair.

So, Commissioner De Grant.

Ms.

Miles.

Okay.

Commissioner Francis.

Dr.

Miller.

Okay.

Commissioner Short.

Dr.

Miller.

Okay.

Commissioner Miller.

Myself.

Okay.

Commissioner Perkins.

Dr.

Miller.

Commissioner Miles.

Dr.

Miller.

Okay.

That's about it.

And Commissioner Stell.

Dr.

Miller.

Yeah.

I think it's so that is I did throw record there.

Yes.

Commissioner Miles with one.

Commissioner Miller with six.

Okay.

So that is vice chairs now, Commissioner Miller.

Thanks so much.

Now the big longer overnight right.

I received a majority of the votes.

Hereby elected the vice chair, Dr.

Miller.

Okay.

That's it.

Thank you all.

Next on the agenda is on the determination for overnight shelters.

Yes, Mr.

Chairman, if you will, uh I'll take this one.

Uh so what I've got before you tonight is basically a reflection of what we discussed uh in our work session.

So if you had a moment to take a look at that, um penciled in those distances, uh, the zones that we were in agreement with uh during work session.

So if everything looks okay there under A and B and C, I will uh add that D E F and G could be up for speculation if if this board so chooses to keep those intact or if you want to remove those before any motion is made.

I'll also add that um RIDC has expressed interest that I too not be part of those zones.

However, uh in our work session discussions, we did understand that uh our industrial development group has covenants and restrictions, so they would be able to use those to not allow it.

We do have other I one and two zones throughout the city as we discussed.

So those I think were the focus of choosing uh the I1 and I-2 zones with reluctance of understanding that they would not be in our industrial development part.

And of course, all of these zones chosen again are conditional.

Uh they'll be based upon uh Board of Adjustments approval.

Uh they'll have to have somewhat of a site development plan or uh thesis there for us to take a look at for the Board of Adjustments to approve on a conditional use.

So I'll leave the rest of it up to you all to take any questions you'd like.

What was that that we really was deciding on that for the uh course we said uh like where it's at now, this business right on Field Street?

Yes, I believe it is a B2 or three, two, yeah.

B2.

I do have a question uh for the agricultural zoning.

Can a residence a residential, like just a general residence in ag could it be considered a homeless shelter?

Under these provisions, yes.

It would have to be uh adapted to meet the criteria needed for that facility, but the possibility is yes.

So the assumption would be correct that if it was on ag it will always stay AG as long as that residence is being used for that shelter.

Unless that owner came and asked for it to be rezoned.

That's correct.

So and and to present an issue that may come up in the future, you know, if we have a use that has took place for a shelter in an ag and an owner wanted to rezone the property to one of these zones that do not fit the bill, then they in my opinion would be allowed to stay because at that time it would be existing non-conforming if a zone change were to take place.

So it would not affect the shelter having to be removed if a new zone is applied to that property that is not allowable within this ordinance.

It would already be pre-existing.

Ultimately, they would be allowed to continue that use.

Right.

That is correct.

But they were all conditional.

Right.

Yes, yeah, it's conditional.

Yeah.

And to answer your question, um earlier, it is 500 feet from residential use or public parks.

We'd include the park.

Yeah.

It would seem like it would be awful hard or quite a stretch of the imagination to take a residence and make it into a homeless shelter fitting all the criteria that you would have to have to be a home shelter as far as all the regulations.

It's still get many people.

Well, that's I mean, because can I just can I ask your question?

Sure.

How many were you talking about housing for our shelter when we get a good location?

It wouldn't be based on the state guidelines.

I'm looking for 15,000 square feet.

What's the minimum you can have to open a homeless shelter?

The minimum one.

Minimum persons to call it that.

I'm just asking for residential, that's what I'm asking.

As far as I know, I don't know that there's a minimum number of occupants that you'll have to have to call it on the shelter.

I just know that the state guideline for a shelter is 220 square feet square feet per individual, and that includes all ancillary specs.

So the bathrooms, the kitchen, the entryway, there has to be it has to be able to accommodate accommodate 220 square feet per person that you are going to shelter.

What does the city allow for that?

Scott.

Kevin.

Not for that.

Not for a homeless shelter.

You know, we we have regulations for um event centers, um, things of that nature, and I don't know those regs right off.

I have to get those from Daniel out of the uh Kentucky building code, but it's sometimes those are calculated by pew or sitting space, or some of those are calculated by gross square footage.

So it depends on what type of assembly it is as well.

Um so it can get a little tricky.

You'd have to pull out the Kentucky building code, and that's not my repertoire.

I'd be happy to stay regulate this shelter.

I mean do they have three lines, do they have two pages?

Do this is regulated very well.

I I do not know that, Dr.

Miller, what all those regulations are.

Yeah, I mean my my experience with this through the Kentucky League of Cities when I was working there over the past 10 years is there there are regulations in place on that, Dr.

Miller.

Um I am more than happy to pull that information and share it with you all.

Uh, it is it's regulated um through through state cabinet.

Um, but as far as off the top of my head, and apologize for not being better prepared for that question.

I will be able to be able to get that answer for you uh tomorrow uh or Friday at the latest.

I think it was but if I think if we pass this, the commission definitely have the information.

Yes, sir.

Absolutely.

When it comes to them so that you can decide.

Absolutely, yeah.

Unless we want to table this, but I don't think we can well uh uh just want to see you think you need to table it just for that or just to answer Commissioner Perkins' question of whether I know the answer, one no.

Um I don't know the answer, but I think that what um Mr.

Johnson's saying is that we could provide those regulations with both you and board of adjustments so that when it goes to board of adjustments, they would have those to also consider.

Yes, and ultimately, I mean it's for the commission that you understand.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, the city commission, you mean yeah.

Absolutely, yeah.

They'll have it tomorrow.

Sure.

I'm not sure how well it's regulated.

Sometimes the state does a good job.

I'm not sure it does a good job all the time.

Maybe we do have the table until we get some information to next time, unless there's a big problem with that.

Yes, go ahead.

Can I comment?

Is that okay?

Yeah, I can everybody hear me okay?

All right.

Um I don't know how sternly that shelters are regulated because I'm fairly into this, obviously.

So the numbers that I have found, I've done the research myself.

I know that the 220 square feet per person, that regulation changed in February of this year.

That is a fairly new regulation.

But I can also tell you that shelters that touch our county that I have been in.

It was 5400 square feet.

And I said, How many people do you sleep?

And she said, We have 80 beds, and they are full all full.

And I about passed out.

I said, What do you I said?

That is not regulation.

She's like, I don't care.

And she said, because I'm worrying about the people.

Well, I'm worried about the people also, but like I said from the beginning with you all, I want to be really transparent, and I want to follow the rules from the get-go.

I I would rather know what the rules are and the guidelines are from the beginning than beg for forgiveness later.

You know, like the property that we looked at on Steep Street that I thought would be perfect.

It was 3600 square feet.

We went in, we're like, then this will be plenty biddy for what we need until I looked down that guideline that said 220 square feet in person.

I was like, okay, this is not big enough.

You know, for us to purchase.

So that shelter that I went in that was sleeping, 80 individuals in 5400 square feet, had two toilets and two showers.

That also may be about panic.

I said this would not work for me.

And Jesse was with me the assistant director that's not here tonight.

And he said but Monica they're making it work and I said but that that this isn't the guidelines.

This is not the regulation our shelter will not be that soon a poet fully intends to follow the guidelines whether the state comes in and looks at us or not.

We need to know if if if it's not very tight you know that we need to put some more regulations on it.

Okay so I'm going to make a motion Mr.

Chairman that we uh table this committee okay we table it till we find out well to the next meeting well extra unless we should more questions before asked for a motion on that I would second it okay so the motion on the table is on the table is to table and commissioner degrant yes commissioner Francis yes commissioner short yes commissioner miller commissioner perkins excuse me yes commissioner miles yes commissioner still yes okay it is tabled like I say this I can see this is one thing to really want to get right and and it especially for you all because y'all know exactly if you find a place and then we want to get it right for the point to help them out on whatever whatever they need so we need to get it right from the get go from the start on thank you well I can assure you that I will do everything follow the rules if there's a line of people behind it that want to almost they may not call the guidelines like the one that I went into but even when I told that like you do you realize these are the guidelines for the state she was like okay what are they going to do so they're gonna shut it down I was like I don't know but I don't want that to happen for us and for my sand we appreciate you this might be a silly question you're talking about those those figures for some of these bunk beds I mean yes all bumped okay all bunk beds and EKU has already donated me 60 bunk beds I already got position of 60 bunk beds that are ready to kind of dorms she wants this done earlier set in front of me tomorrow I would be I would not just they were very close together it's been a really long time since I walked in the jail but I can't imagine we could practice quickly and then they were any further apart than the ones that's at that jail.

Yeah she really wants to get going yeah okay I mean true the two toilets and two towers and I was like that this is right I think that's the most that's a really big point too when when when were you wanting to really get get this going and next I am praying every day that the building is in front of me tomorrow.

Do you have one in mind you have someplace I have a few ideas but I don't have anything promised I don't have anything in front of me.

I don't have financial backing behind me but I fully believe that if a property presents itself that I will be able to come up with a way to procure it.

So you don't have anything I have not right now is the day that the building is here and we will be able to shelter my winner you don't have to take handing right now.

I'm sorry you don't have anything pending right now that you have to have the decision right now.

No I do not okay okay thank you again next on the agenda is the director's report I have nothing to report unless Rob you have anything to add okay next is the adjournment we get a motion please okay Commissioner De Grant yes Commissioner Francis Short yes Commissioner Perkins Commissioner Miles Commissioner South yes thanks so much