Good evening.

We'd like to welcome everyone this evening to the Richmond Planning's only meeting.

Sure.

Commissioner DeGrant.

Here.

Commissioner Francis.

Here.

Commissioner Short.

Commissioner Miller.

Commissioner Perkins.

Commissioner Miles.

Commissioner South.

Here we go.

Like get a motion on that, please.

Commissioner DeGrant.

Yes.

Commissioner Francis.

Yes.

Commissioner Short.

Yes.

Commissioner Miller.

Yes.

Commissioner Perkins.

Commissioner Miles.

Yes.

Commissioner Stell.

Yes.

Next on the agenda is the zone map amendments for properties on Baker Court.

Existence on R2, proposed zone R one.

What you'll have in front of you is a map Tyler created for us.

We got one blue lot that has no significance.

That's just the first lot picked.

But everything in yellow and blue will be a representation of all of the applications you have in front of you along Baker Court.

So with that, we have applications, we have consent.

So it would be, I think if council would agree, we could entertain a motion for all on Baker Court, or do we need to do those individual?

As long as we have the reading as far as each each property that is requested that, then I do think we could vote in in total with that.

So it would just be a question of getting on the record the properties that have specifically requested that before the vote.

And I think we'd be fine to do it that way.

Yeah, I think it would just be clarifying the question for him to vote on.

And just so that it's clear, it's 504, 506, 507, 508, 510, 50, 56 516, 517, 518, 519, 521, 522, and 524 Baker Court.

Those one that have not.

Those are the ones that you would be voting yes or no to.

Okay.

How many thirteen?

Thirteen.

You have any questions from the can we entertain a public comment first, if there is any.

Do what?

If there's any public comment.

But yeah.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

There's none.

So we get a motion on that, please.

Okay.

I'll make a motion that we approve the zone map amendment for the properties on Baker Court as listed.

And it's from the existing zone of R2 to a proposed zone R1.

And I'll chime in with the amendment that we approved the findings of that.

Okay.

Say that again.

Was that a second, Dr.

Miller?

I'll second.

Okay.

Okay.

Commissioner De Grant?

Yes.

Commissioner Francis?

Yes.

Commissioner Short?

Yes.

Commissioner Miller?

Yes.

Commissioner Perkins?

Commissioner Miles?

Yes.

Commissioner Stell?

Yes.

Next on the agenda is a zone map amendment for properties 614 Oldham Avenue.

Exist in zone R3.

Proposed zone R1.

This is a somewhat of a late arrival still yet within the time frame to submit.

So we we went forth with the 614 Oldham Avenue.

It's a single lot.

Tyler has that highlighted up here for you if you need to put your eye on exactly where that is.

But this one would be going from an R3 to an R1.

So they're seeking that single family zone as well.

Very similar, just a single instance on a different street.

I guess I need to say is that I'm seeing findings of that.

It was Chris can absolutely correct me if I'm wrong, but the the attorney when they bring it to you, provide it.

Since you guys are doing this, you have to provide your reasoning, which is the finding effect.

Yes, obviously the application process, you would hope that the property owner requesting it provides information, but the ultimate findings of fact would be made by the body, and if the body determines they don't have enough facts in front of them to make that determination, then the body has the ability to make that finding as well.

That there's not but so their reasons their reasoning being so their findings of facts as in the reasoning would be from why they're saying yes or no.

Yes, absolutely.

Why don't we have findings of facts?

Well, no, I'm I'm saying that the finding of facts generally are made by the by the body as as part of that, but again, looking for the at the application itself, you're absolutely right, Doctor, that it's there's not a lot of reasoning given for that, which you all can absolutely base your determination here on as part of your findings, which would be the finding of facts you all conclude is that the application didn't suffice for you all to make a determination to to support it.

Okay.

And that would be my mistake, because previously how the former city attorney did it is your reasoning yes or no tonight is how he formed them for the city commission.

Whether that was right or wrong.

No, I I think it's fine.

I just I mean it's it's two different ways of doing it.

So I you know, we might want to say to some people that are new on the committee that the county is actually that they really allow us to make a decision to I understand this is kind of by the individual, so it's not a big idea.

But if you don't have that was much case here that they didn't have it was a problem.

So always look at the Plan Vector really is important.

Do we have any public comments on this?

There's not any good emotion on this.

I think it's for property six fourteen Oldham Avenue, existing zone R3 to propose done our room.

Okay.

Commissioner De Grant.

No.

Okay.

Commissioner Francis?

Yes.

Commissioner Short.

Yes.

Commissioner Miller?

Yes.

Commissioner Perkins.

Yes.

Commissioner Miles.

Yes.

Commissioner Stell.

Thanks so much.

Yeah, we do.

This uh next one is for the zone determination for over overnight shelter.

Uh we tabled this the last time.

So we would need a motion to put to make a motion to put it back on the table.

I make a motion, we lay it back on the table.

Okay.

And that has to be voted on again.

Yeah.

Is there a second?

I'll second it.

Commissioner De Grant?

Yeah.

Commissioner Francis?

Yes.

Commissioner Short?

Yes.

Commissioner Miller?

Yes.

Commissioner Perkins.

Commissioner Miles.

Yes.

Commissioner Sell?

Yes.

Okay.

So this next one is a zone determination for the overnight shelter.

Director, do you have anything?

I think we might have uh some additional speakers tonight, but I would make one note on the uh general recommendations as far as regulations for these, if if it goes forward, is that uh when I created that, you'll notice that at the title of that it says shelter for the homeless.

Uh that was somewhat just what I would put on there in its infancy as as I did some research.

So I would like to make a note for the record that that should state overnight shelter, because if they don't, it could cause a a differentiation of what an overnight shelter is and just a homeless shelter, which could be in daytime.

These uh what we're talking about tonight is for overnight shelters.

So very different determination of of the facility.

I think we've got two things.

We've got the the ordinance that you wrote up, you wrote up, which is good, and the problem with uh it's not a problem.

Uh the homeless show is in your junior to question the uh library.

There's two different things.

The one is that we were going to do is we were going to get information from the state to find out what their regulations were.

That's why we tabled it.

Yes.

And in looking into that additionally, really, there's there's not a whole lot from the state that they require.

Yeah, that is as long as they I'm sorry, you disagree with that?

No, no, I will say it yet.

Okay.

But um, but yeah, I mean it's as long as is from the information I got from reaching out to um some other shelters around the state, and I even reached out to Hope Center in Lexington and spoke to their executive director.

Uh, because I figured that's going straight to the horse's mouth.

Hope center would have it locked down.

And the response I got in speaking to the executive director is that as long as you know they're they're up to building code and as far as they're meeting the standards for the health department as far as uh you know the kitchen and serving people and meeting those benchmarks, there's really nothing specific that is under a rubric for homeless shelters.

Um it's you know that that you look at what's going on at what the shelter is as far as you know, like I said, the health department, things like that.

But there's really not a whole lot of regulation at the state level that is specific for homeless shelter.

So to make everybody clear, is it they would they would be inspected for health purposes?

Yes, if they're operating kitchen.

Yes.

Because we don't want that not done.

Yes.

Yes, sir.

Yes, sir.

There's there there's there would be no additional inspection or paperwork that they would file just by the nature of them operating a shelter.

So all that would come through the city, right?

Yes, most mostly, yes, sir.

So with our zoning classifications, are we determining differentiating between homeless and homeless shelter and an overnight shelter?

Uh as far as our classifications go.

Well what we're here tonight for is addressing overnight shelters.

Uh overnight as well.

I I think we need to possibly change that and maybe make it apply to all shelters, or let me rephrase and not use the word shelter, but a business that would practice in inviting homeless.

I think it should be that way.

Um that would apply to every day your daytime people, that would also apply to your night nighttime as well.

And if we have them all standardized in one way, I think it's smarter for us proceeding forward.

And that certainly makes it much easier for us uh instead of starting to classify the different types.

Uh we're certainly not experts in in the type of business that that would be in, other than um you know, its location, which is all we're after is as far as zoning.

So I'd be very happy to entertain that, and if we can include that on any motion we make tonight if we get there to have that clarification and then I will adjust and move forward.

That's just an overnight, right?

I don't think it was.

I think sometimes they're going to stay for one, right?

Well, that's what kicked it off uh was the overnight shelter.

So if we want to broaden our horizons and and do that, absolutely.

Well, I think it it was mentioned though that they were there just for overnight and then they had to get out.

Yeah.

Had to be out during the daytime, then they could come back at night.

It wasn't like that they were going to stay there from all night and then there all day long.

They were gonna they was only gonna stay there for tonight and then they would be up because I think it was mentioned that they would be out looking for jobs or doing doing whatever, so it's just not like they were gonna be there.

Uh you know, all you know, just stay there 24 hours.

And Mr.

Chairman, some of the some of the conversations that we've had from the community that's reached out to that reflects that is that you know, this this is just for the overnight shelters, but during the day they've got to go somewhere.

Yeah, you know, and there and there are shelters and and other types of nonprofits that do cater to you know, uh, you know, work readiness or you know uh therapy, things such as that, to where you know there that it's kind of pointing out I think what we're landing on here is that you know we're looking this is just tailored to overnight, but there's a broader spectrum we may need to look at, and I I don't disagree that you know, looking look having the zoning for all of these types of services locked down to where you're not having to you know go cross town, things like that is uh something absolutely we could look at as well.

I'm gonna ask the question about that now.

When they leave in the mornings, I know you've got some churches and different things that they go to to feed.

Does that play in effect on this?

Uh I mean, like we got some churches here, you know, they can go, and I think it used to be they could go and and they could take showers and and do things like that.

Would that play into effect in the zoning?

I I would recommend that it does not.

Uh the church is is its own entity.

And if and if they decide to graciously take in someone and provide that for them, it it would not play a part in this particular zoning for a facility designed for it.

Okay.

Yeah, I'd like to signal to get.

Yeah, I'm I I'll just ask them of course because we we've talked about zone, I didn't know exactly how you know why we step up.

I mean, if if it's a if it's a physical church itself, but for instance, if it is a if it is a charity affiliated with a church or something, then and there's they're setting up outside of that, then you know, yeah, I think I think the zoning could come into play with it.

So you and that's we have to look at the nature of the organization that is that is sponsoring it.

That's also why I think it should be broadened out to business orientation versus a designated homeless shelter or a shelter it should be designated to as a whole I think that would be a better way of blanketing because if a charity wants to set up a shelter they can but I think having it as a business orient so you have an individual that wants to do it then also they have the right but it's a business oriented in sheltering everybody I think that's what it needs to be versus just designated as shelter this or a shelter this and commissioner when you're using the term business are you is that a differentiation between a nonprofit versus for profit?

Either or okay either or so business would cover nonprofit charitable 501 COVID that's that's what I'm thinking because then we kind of apply those rules also blanketing churches at the same time.

Yeah sorry the lawyer has to it was looking at the definition and how we were going to you know define that well that would be my thought process absolutely no that makes sense is the anyone from the public would like to comment yes come up and your name please state your name my name is Margaret Seitz.

I'm a new board member at Madison Home I'm late to this party I know very little about zoning or being on a nonprofit board and I've missed the last couple meetings about this I understand that y'all have already heard it a couple times.

We sent some emails my colleague Mr Michael Frazier sent email earlier and I sent an email as well asking that this be tabled again I know that that is going to be a hardship for y'all to have to hear it a fourth time but Madison Home is one of the only overnight shelters in Richmond and we just haven't had an opportunity to look at the regulations and see if this would affect us yet we'd like to be able to look at those and submit comments to you about just make sure that this isn't going to interfere with the ability of that operation to stay open if I could chime in there just a moment it you know in the if there is a succession of the of a new ordinance here it would not pertain to anything preexisting so any existing shelters or services or business or whatever you have that is in in that category would not be affected by this particular ordinance.

It would be only be things that come into play after its adoption we have regulations that will state if if a business goes out or service so let's use you for an example if you happen to go out of business and another entity does not come in and do the exact same thing within that structure for a period of one year it will revert back to any ordinance of the book at that time.

So that would be the only case that that could happen.

So if you are existing you you're fully uh in operation any ordinance passed tonight would not pertain to you as far as a zone that says you're not in conformance you you would be honestly existing non-conforming but you you predate the ordinance that's very helpful.

Thank you all what what do you all do with services?

Currently um Madison Home is giving non-overnight shelter services uh meals breakfast and lunch every day showers laundry clothing closet and connection with case management and then we do intend to open as an overnight shelter again for the winter so that will be December through March.

Oh so it's just a yeah just just in the winter I'm sorry.

I'm sure it's more important.

I'm sure it's bad okay.

Okay.

So y'all don't keep people long it's just uh no uh it's and I I don't know exactly what all the rules are or will be but it's uh it's emergency shelter so it's not long-term living yeah the only thing it would apply to you would be that fire inspection health inspection that kind of thing would still be even if you're gonna find it in but still apply correct not under uh an original certificate of occupancy now if but they have to deal with that anyway correct if if there are standards set by the state uh and therefore if they have to have a uh fire inspection every six months every one year I'm totally making that up then they would have to do that um only at the point of a new occupancy would you get would you get this applied uh this listing of things uh for a new business that way we can make sure like like Chris is saying we get fire extinguishers health department um building inspection we get the whole CO business of a new business service whatever for that structure so they would go through that at that point in time anything existing would only have to follow any current regulations that

Umly at the point of a new occupancy would you get would you get this applied?

Um this listing of things uh for a new business, that way we can make sure, like like Chris is saying, we get fire extinguishers, health department um building inspection, we get the whole CO business of a new business service, whatever for that structure.

So they would go through that at that point in time.

Anything existing would only have to follow any current regulations that would be applied.

That's right.

So you still would want a facility to be safe.

So you wouldn't have bar inspection or anything on well, I'm I'm sure Dr.

Jajan about that.

I'm sure you if you might be able to enlighten us on what type of inspections are or that you may have to go through if you know those.

I am sorry, I'm too new to answer that question.

Okay.

Doctor, so I can speak to them.

Can I just state your name, please?

I'm gonna trade out.

Thank you all.

Thank you.

I appreciate my name is a side, and uh I'm uh founder of Madison Home, and uh so what is the exact question about the I'm sorry, I didn't need the well.

Uh Black, what is the question?

What's the question?

I think you have had people come down here and inspect you for fire and other things.

So what we do is the every year we request the city uh fire department, they come and inspect uh our facility, they go on all the floors, they look at the fire suppression on the extinguisher, on the alarms, the batteries, and of course they look at the doors if they're compliant, egress is safe, is our fire escape is working, so we get inspection and we always have been approved.

We never ever for the last several years that you've been operating.

We have had any infringement, we never had any complaints, and the the city fire department has been extremely happy with us.

We never had it, never had an issue.

I want to bring just one little thing while we are trying to think about future entities and currents.

So the way the medicine home is set up, it's actually a daughter organization of a bigger organization that is called the the Medicine Home Mission.

And what the mission is, it is actually a non-denominational church.

So one of the questions was raised that what rules and regulation apply to the churches.

So I just want to emphasize that the medicine home and experience organization, they are incorporated as church, they're approved by IRS as a denominational.

So we believe that we get the same protection that any other church would have.

So as far as all the inspection, we do it, but I think like in a church, for example, that you have overnight retreat.

So the rule that applied to the church would apply to us as well.

And also in the case with a summer break, they're staying at night and there were summer camps.

So the request that we have is that the rules that apply to those churches should also apply to the medicine home because it is a mission.

It is actually official, a church.

It's non-denominational church.

So this is what we need to understand.

We all know that 38 churches are sponsoring and supporting this thing.

I'm not individual, we are not the two people, it's the whole community.

And if I may be wrong to say, I may not be wrong to say that through all of your churches, I'm representing all of you, because practically every single church, any major church, it is one of the the collaborative uh church with us.

So we are not an isolated entity.

We represent all the churches, and that's what we are.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you very much.

Kevin, I got a question for you.

If they were to expand, would it affect them this ordinance?

Because you didn't kind of say that.

I I don't feel that it would.

Uh the only thing that would apply would probably be some type of development plan that would kick in just development regulations, parking, uh ADA compliance, things of that nature.

You're still continuing the exact same use.

So I don't feel that an ordinance of this stature would affect it as long as it is that same continuing use.

And and again, uh you know, this ordinance wouldn't affect Madison Home as long as it is in operation.

See, it wouldn't.

It wouldn't affect it.

If they expand it to like the next, there's a couple of buildings down the street from them.

Would they be able to expand into those areas?

If it's a building down the street, I'm going to assume that structure is on a separate piece of property.

Yes.

It would apply.

Okay, that's good.

So what we looking at here, we're talking about two different things, right?

Well, I'm hearing a service.

I won't get into a business with all of Chris's uh big words, but um if if we are providing a service and it happens to be this type of service, then I'm hearing um it applies to all any of it, whether it's overnight throughout the day, overnight through the couple days of the week, whatever, it would apply to all of those situations at that point.

If if you choose, this body chooses to encompass the idea.

Because he's grandfathered in this ordinance is Tammanese thing.

So what we're really voting on is new facilities.

Yeah.

That is correct.

That's what we're doing.

And um and just a quick statement, you know, if if this moves forward, uh I would want to reach out to the community, maybe the help of Saad and some others here tonight, it would be to locate and identify all existing ones so that I can have a little list here that doesn't get picked on being facetious here, uh that is exempt.

That way we have a record of that as we move forward.

And um I think that would be a good a good idea.

And any time we do that, I'm incorporating our GIS now to actually map those areas.

So it's a map that nobody sees but us, but it's a tracking effort for us to know right where these would lie, like I'm sort of doing that now with short-term rentals, but it would be the same process, and then they would be identified as a color code that they are pre-existing.

Exactly.

What would apply to the existing ones would be any new ones within proximity of existing ones if this moves forward?

Any more questions?

Any more comments?

No got any.

We usually do.

Now she mentions something about tabling this.

I think it would be wise to table one more time before we take a vote.

I think.

Only because we have the change, a couple of changes that Chris is going to have to look into.

Verbiage.

The verbiage.

That and I mean with the overnight shelter and the discussion as far as the other services that go along with that.

I do think there needs to be some clarity as far as defining what a homeless shelter encompasses as part of that as types of the types of services we're wanting to cover with this, if it's, you know, because even the overnight shelter overnight isn't mentioned in this.

So I do think having a definition section that kind of sets forth what we're hoping to cover on that, which some of the feedback from the community is that this is a broad spectrum issue we're having to look at.

So I think clarity would be would be needed, and I'm happy to make those changes and work with Kevin on that before the next meeting.

I motion the table.

Commissioner DeGrant?

Yes.

Commissioner Francis.

Yes.

Commissioner Short?

Yes.

Commissioner Miller?

Yes.

Commissioner Perkins?

Yes.

Commissioner Miles.

Yes.

Commissioner Stell?

Yes.

Thank you all.

Thank you.

Next on the agenda is a director's report.

The agenda should also say other business.

That's I don't know why, but it's left off by me.

So we'll make quick report.

Um I have updated with the help of Chris.

And those of you who don't know what freeboard is, it is uh has to do with the NFIP National Flood Insurance Program about how high your structure must be above a flood plan.

So currently we had some uh discrepancies will say we we have a storm manual and it lists six inches in there, and then we uh through the help of counsel here, we've located I believe in 2017 uh some language of an ordinance that was passed, and it greatly increased that and we're incorporating that into our storm manual now.

Um I have notified uh then FIP and gave them that information, they are absolutely astounded by that.

And what that does is it lowers the insurance rates.

There's a community rating system, and um with that we can help lead the charge.

We're we're one of the better ones.

So this is an improvement to that, so that helps the community as a whole to lower that insurance.

Um I did receive phase three of the carriage place development out on 25.

Uh, when I say that, that is the actual construction drawings.

They arrived this morning, about 50 pages of a bunch of lines, but uh I will be reviewing that this week.

Uh also simultaneously received phase eight of Magnolia Point, which interests a lot of folks because this is the phase that will run us over to Union City Road.

Um everything on that sheet has a construction design that does take you all the way there.

Uh so I'll be reviewing that as well, and it's another 50-some pages of a bunch of squiggly lines.

So with that, I thought you might be interested that we are getting there for Magnolia to get that second entrance out.

Um quick report on some letter of credits.

Uh I don't want to give names yet because they haven't submitted for the next meeting yet, but uh in talks with my field inspector David, which has been doing a great job handling those, we should have multiple letter of credit releases and some of those starting to get cleaned up.

I don't want to give names just yet because they haven't submitted until they do so uh we should have a good list for you to take off take off the list.

Are we getting close to completing it now?

Yes.

If they're asking for reduction or a release of letter of credit, that means they are done.

They we've we've tracked them, we've we've hounded them, we've asked politely.

I mean every uh we've sent some letters.

Uh but no, this will be a significant chunk.

All right.

And it's it's happening simultaneously.

So uh they're trying to make a push before, of course, blacktop plants are closing.

So as long as everything stays on track as we have communicated with them, we're looking pretty good to having a list for next meeting.

Get back to Magnolia Point.

Where are they at on the bridge part?

The bridge uh I believe it has been approved, and the bridge is shown on the plans.

So um it was not incorporated into the set that sent to me, but I will recommend that it has to be part of that plan so I can see all of that those bells and whistles as well.

And I'm sure uh the engineer has all that.

Uh like I say it was just submitted this morning.

Um I've started my grocery list as I call it, and uh that'll be one thing that I asked for that.

But if they're moving that way, uh I'm told that most likely they are intending to start on that end.

So the bridge and that entrance probably will be the first thing you see as far as construction when they get started.

They they write their edit.

Right now.

Yep.

We're gonna have to put a light here on the union um.

And again, we're we'll be challenged.

Um state road, so we're our hands are tied there.

And unfortunately, the state doesn't react until there's a problem.

That's that's usually just the way it works.

Uh kind of like you have to be missing for 48 hours before they send somebody looking for you, but we have to have a an issue or a problem before uh the state takes a look at things like that.

We've had a tendency since I've been on this board to when we limit the amount of building, then we say, okay, you've got to build a bridge, and then they start building again.

Oh, we haven't built the bridge yet.

And I I don't want them to come back and say that because my first comment is tear the houses down.

Well, what we I would think that they need to make sure to start that bridge, and you know, that has to be part of the deal now because there's only one exit to that whole subdivision.

And and in the prior motion uh with this board, you know, they have to build their way out.

And they have to make a connection to Union City.

Now in phase eight, and and this is not what they're planning.

Uh again, they've just submitted, but it's quite a large section.

But it is a straight shot.

It's got some roads attached to it, but it is a straight shot to Union City.

And um, you know, they may break that into phases.

They did phase seven in two phases, seven, a and seven B, but they're still carrying out their um agreement to keep pushing forward.

So with that, um I'm not allowing any branching.

Um, much like the farms at Barnes Mill, that agreement was they must make it to uh Barnes Mill Road.

So I'm watching all that, but I'm not lying any branching away from that straight shot.

Now they can put houses and a little bump out cultics, but you must be continuing toward uh Union City Road, and that's what they're doing.

Great.

Okay.

Um Michael Fraser.

Is it Mike Frazier that did this?

Sent us the letter.

There I have a lot of questions, and I don't understand.

Um it sounds like so.

He wants a four-month time to kind of formulate with you all, I take it.

I uh with Gracie and I the I had a a brief interaction with with him earlier today that you know we're willing to take it under advisement.

Um Richmond is in the same position as any other city in the U.S., unfortunately.

I mean, homelessness is something every city's having to deal with.

And if I if there was a one shot simple solution, um we'd all be billionaires because we'd be selling it to every other city.

So, you know, it is it is an absolutely broad spectrum approach that that would warrant some discussion.

Now that's not to say we can't address things piecemeal, such as through the shelter language or anything like that, but I think the impression I got, and I I I I'm not intending to speak for him by any stretch of the imagination, was that he is wanting essentially all hands on deck as far as Richmond and stakeholders and nonprofits as far as a community-wide approach to this, which candidly I'm not sure that that is the role for planning and zoning to be running point on that.

That's a conversation probably held at the Board of Commissioners level and and with the mayor, but I I'll reiterate it with them as well.

I'm you know, I've I've got you know 12 years of experience with Kentucky League of Cities.

I know anecdotally how other cities have looked at this.

Um candidly, no city really has a great solution, but I know approaches other cities have taken.

So if there is a need for an ongoing conversation, I think that's something we absolutely can do as a city, but I'm not certain that the planning and zoning is the point person for that is is not not the impression I got is what they were asking for.

If we zone certain um parcels, then that's creating a monopoly for someone else, and uh that's what I was concerned about.

Yeah, and and I I I read it as well, and that's that's why I think additional conversation would be would be needed.

Uh, he needed to come to he can.

I mean, I'm happy to I'm you know, I'm I'm a I'm at City Hall every day.

I'm happy to speak to anybody at any time that they have any concerns with this, but um I want to zone it.

Oh no, no, no, I yeah, no, no, absolutely absolutely, and I don't I mean I I understand the concerns, but I think there may be some uh as they say talking past each other at this point, but but I I do think that the goals and aims that this initially started with, and Kevin and Tyler can correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Um it's not mission creep, but any time you're dealing with homelessness, there are a lot of factors that can become involved with that pretty quickly.

Because it's not just overnight, as we've said, you know, you've got the day-to-day and they go someplace during the day, and are they getting counseling during the day?

Are they getting you know job placement during the day?

And you know, if we if we are allowing something on one side of town, but we're only allowing something on the other side of town, how are they gonna get from point A to point B?

So it's it's an it's an exceedingly broad spectrum approach that's needed, but a lot of that is land use, and that is gonna require planning and zoning, which is you know, sort of the initial step here.

It was it was a good attendance and I'd be willing to bet that there were ten different organizations.

This hand didn't know what this hand was doing.

Yeah and a a lot of stuff was simple.

I mean you know they it it was it was this hand didn't know what this one was doing.

And it seemed like that to help out the whole thing around that they need to come together.

Yeah really and I I think that would be that would help a whole lot but the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing but and this well we've been doing this for X amount of months or years something we didn't know you was doing that.

Yeah.

But they was all doing the same thing but nobody knew what the other one was even doing.

No and that you know that that is somewhat endemic to you know situations like that.

That would help the city a whole lot if they did come together.

Yeah no absolutely it suggested a task force.

Yeah well I mean whatever you know it might take but I mean it's not the city to make up the decision you know help them all we can but you know if the other one knows what the other was doing and then come together on.

Yeah and and that you know I think you know I'm happy happy to speak to um speak to him about that and you know involve the city manager and the mayor and the commissioners as far as you know what what sort of not coordination but facilitation.

Yeah I think the city has a role in but you know I I think that answers are going to have to percolate up from the community I I don't think that you know I I would love to say we're like Moses on the mount where we come down with all the answers.

We we're not in that position.

It's there are people that know far more about this and have different that the right hand and the left hand they may know what they're doing individually but you know bringing those together together uh chairman I think would be a a benefit as well.

Well did you ever think about having a committee where uh the city was involved in it the manager and everybody else involved in it and they basically bring all these people together you know once every two months or two months and they see what everybody's doing so that this right hand does know what the left hand's doing and the city can help coordinate some things.

I I think I think Dr.

Miller that that is becoming readily apparent that that is that may be a next step.

I don't think a task force I think a record of committee that meets routinely call it call it whatever whatever you want.

I you know it's but I I think the intention of getting people together to discuss this is is warranted and I have a feeling that the the decision makers of the city are going to be looking at that sooner rather than later with what is transpired and when I when I say committee too I think you ought to be on that I think there ought to be people that are in real estate in it.

I think people want to be a building I think professional people I think people done that deal with the homeless as it's so security office.

I th uh you know a lot of people should be involved just ordinary citizens that are that are there to actually have the expertise in certain areas I think it would really help you I don't disagree yeah I mean that's and I that I'm gonna be speaking with the city manager about that tomorrow.

That's all so wrapped it all together I'll make a motion and we adjourn for the night you were exhausted a drink of water a second.

He perked up I did okay.

Uh Commissioner De Grant yes Commissioner Francis Short yes Commissioner Perkins yes thanks so much I was worried about you I'm glad you got back to your standard thank you all