Good evening.

We'd like to welcome everyone this evening to the Richmond plan and zone and meeting.

Clerk you call the roll, please.

Can you get a motion for never mind?

Mr.

DeGrant, I mean Commissioner De Grant?

Yes.

Commissioner Francis.

Yes.

Here.

Commissioner Short?

Yes.

Commissioner Miller?

Here.

Commissioner Perkins here.

Commissioner Miles?

Here.

Commissioner Stell.

Here.

If everyone has had a chance to look over the minutes from June the 17th meeting, I'll get a motion on it, please.

I'll second.

Motion.

Commissioner Miller.

Second.

Commissioner Perkins.

Commissioner De Grant?

Yes.

Commissioner Francis.

Yes.

Commissioner Short.

Yes.

Commissioner Miller.

Yes.

Commissioner Perkins.

Yes.

Commissioner Miles?

Yes.

Commissioner Estell.

Yes.

Next on the agenda is a request for zone map amendment for property located at two seventeen pleasure drive.

Zone change from UC dash one to R 1.

R 1 Creta.

Thank you, everybody for their time.

Um, I think this one's fairly simple.

Um if you look at the area there, it's a very unique area.

Um honestly my client and along with my next client, who would be called number five.

Um the the system runs up the side of that, and they're gonna grant each other a minute.

It's extremely simple to me.

Then um they get the chance to be a part of the city of Richmond and enjoy everything that comes with that.

That's all this is.

It will be a single family residence.

It is a single family residence, it will remain a single family residence.

The vacant lot will be his next home.

It's it's it's very simple.

Very easy.

Um I've spoken to Mr.

Attorney, and um I don't I don't believe I don't want to speak for him, but I believe he would concur with everything I'm telling you.

Yeah, if I if I this is an absolute odd place within the city and county.

And if I may, uh Corey, that uh our the city's understanding with this up to this point has been a lot of these issues and the reason for this asking is septic issues, and they're wanting to tie into city sewer, they're willing to pay the the the tie on fees to that, and so it's it's literally their they're wanting city services, which is one of the whole reasons behind annexed.

Yeah, I and the city line runs through the left property, it's there, it's underneath the ground that you pays taxes on.

We just want to tap in.

That's all.

Yeah, I think we'll pay the cost to do something.

I think in the years past they have several years long.

Some people had come before wanted to you know come and decide and others didn't.

I think we did grant some several years ago.

There was a large large large partial of that, yes.

Yeah, that was granted uh to come into the city.

Commissioner has any more questions?

I get a motion on this.

I make a motion that we request that we approve the request for the zone map amendment for the property located at 217 Pleasure Drive, proposed zone change from UC 1 to R1-C.

Second Okay.

Motion by Short, second by Dr.

Miller.

Commissioner de Grant?

Yes, Commissioner Francis?

Yes, Commissioner Short, yes, Commissioner Miller, yes, Commissioner Perkins, yes, Commissioner Miles, yes, Commissioner Estelle.

Yes.

Next on the agenda is a request for zone map amendment for property located at 223 Pleasure Drive and 611 Benjamin Drive.

Proposed zone change from U C 1 to R1 to R-1C, Corey.

So these are the two properties that are across the street where the line goes.

Um both are owned by the same individuals.

They will drill under the road, connect.

I don't want to keep you on up here any longer.

Same argument, same statements.

Please thank you.

Okay, any questions?

I got a motion, please.

Map amendment for property located at 223 uh pleasure drive and 611 uh Benjamin Drive.

Proposed zone change from UC one to R1C.

Second it.

Got a motion to Commissioner Miller, second Commissioner Perkins.

Commissioner de Grant?

Yes.

Commissioner Francis?

Yes.

Commissioner Short?

Yes.

Commissioner Miller.

Yes.

Commissioner Perkins.

Yes.

Commissioner Miles?

Yes.

Commissioner Estelle.

Yes.

Mr.

Commissioner, if I may be excuse.

Thank you well.

Okay.

Next on the agenda.

Good evening.

Jay Webb.

So at the hand survey.

Here to represent carriage plates, phase three.

That's 138 lots, final plat.

Several months ago, the preliminary flat was approved.

All the infrastructure has been completed, streets are built, curbed utter, vinyl grade of black top, water sewer, everything's in place at this point.

So we're here tonight to ask for the final plat approval to be able to sell lots.

So Kevin, you got anything on it?

Uh for the record, um the plant that you have before you has met all revisions.

Uh those are final corrections were sent from Marlin.

Uh I've confirmed all that.

We do have two remaining items, but they are staff items.

It's just the uh construction guarantee quantities uh for remaining items.

I think maybe prep Steve will be sending those in, and then the establishment of the letter of credit.

Uh all that can be done in within the house.

If uh you're inclined to approve the plat, I would recommend based on staff approval.

That way I can ensure those items are completed.

Any more questions?

You got a motion on it, please.

Oh, no, your provisions which were just based on staff approval.

And and my signature, as always, will be last on the plat, so I can ensure that those things are complete.

Second, second it.

Yeah.

Commissioner Short.

Commissioner De Grant?

Yes.

Commissioner Francis.

Yes.

Commissioner Short.

Yes.

Commissioner Miller?

Yes.

Commissioner Perkins.

Yes.

Commissioner Miles.

Yes.

Commercialist.

Commissioner.

Yes.

It is a residential development.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Jay.

Okay, next orders is other business.

Kevin?

I have no other business.

I would like to say that recently we had some problems, I believe, with housing that was R1 that people were renting out, and some people got injured with the floods.

And this is a typical problem.

And we've had problems down Oak and other places.

And they're not really approved multifamily, like you approve them when they get done.

There really are one.

And I really think that we probably should think about doing an ordinance to stop some of that.

Unless they get approved.

I mean, if if you can get your house up to stuff, and you can make it multifamily and it's in a multifamily area, I have no problem with it.

But if you have an R1 area and you're supposed to be having just a family there and you rent it out of somebody else, I'm really a little concerned about people's safety because it may not be code, it may not mean a lot of things.

So you're basic basically leaving that up to the owner.

Yeah.

To bring all this up to everybody's attention, saying, Well, I've I've got these basements that only have one point of egress.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Exactly.

You don't know what electric's like.

It's not like if somebody builds a new place and they get it inspected and everything.

This is kind of bad.

Really, it is that people would do that.

Are you saying it's already R1?

And these houses are R1 a lot of them.

You've got a bunch of them down in uh on Oak Street and High Street and stuff like that.

And a lot of college students live in them.

And if there's a fire, anything like that happens.

Do they have smoke alarms?

They've got a lot.

They have some living up in attics.

Yeah.

If you had a fire, there'd be no way to get out.

Now I don't have any trouble if they go down there and they say, okay, R1.

And it gets approved by you to say it's a safe place and it gets inspected periodically, because it's an older place.

Then I have no problem with it.

That's fine.

But to leave them and have people, there's no advantage to improving these places financially.

There's just not.

The concept uh and ordinances we have in place will allow that uh to happen.

The the missing concept, I think uh Gary, what you're referring to is is how do you get them?

How do you find out?

Um go to the house and you see.

Most of them will admit it.

You can't get it.

Well, uh, I may refer to counsel on any kind of authority because uh, you know, uh we're not so much allowed to just traverse across private property and knock on the door.

There's that pesky thing called the Fourth Amendment in Section 10 of the Kentucky Constitution that short of having probable cause to seek an administrative warrant, we just can't come through the front door.

You do have probable cause, don't you?

Based on what?

That it's not safe, that it could cause people's death.

Based on what?

Without being inside of that building, you can go out and you can photograph the people's cars that are there.

There's more than one car, there's ten cars parked out front.

That's just like when the police officer goes, somebody's got you've got a probable cause.

If there's ten cars parked out front of an R1 house, then you know there's a problem.

I I I'm I have been asked this after the tragedy of the loss of life recently.

The city has done some research on this.

The ability for the city to demand inspections.

Oh, you can't demand inspection, but you can have evidence that there is something else going on.

There is another that it is being used as an R3 instead of an R1.

You have to stand there and you have to have somebody take pictures and see that the house cars are from different areas, and that kind of thing.

I mean, you you could you could have probable costs.

I think your understanding of probable cause in mine may differ a little bit under the law.

It might be.

And that is a liability issue for those people that are renting those rooms out, and I'm I'm sure that there will be civil and possible criminal repercussions as to that.

The ability for the city to regulate the same way with code enforcement.

And frankly, until and this may be something that the General Assembly looks at and says we're willing to extend that authority to localities based upon the tragedy that happened here.

But Dr.

Miller, if you're asking me right now, the legal authority for for the city to do what you're suggesting, I'm just not certain it's there right now.

I think we're gonna have more problems up.

I think we're gonna have more tragedies, et cetera.

So things are gonna happen and it may force on the assembly to do something.

And and that and and if the general general assembly gives us that authority, we'll we'll we will take that.

But it's sad way to have it really hurt people, et cetera, before you get something changed.

Well, I mean that's the nature of home rule authority though.

I mean we we can the city has the authority to act, but for those areas where the legislature has come up with a comprehensive legislative scheme.

If you look at KRS 100, by any measure and any authority, that is a comprehensive legislative scheme.

So the only authority that we really have to enforce that is what the legislature has granted to us.

So I'm I'm not discounting your concerns, I share them with you.

But from a from a legal, practical, and constitutional standpoint, we're limited.

And and I I understand that, but you the the number of of rentals that are probably taking place in this community that we don't know about are probably in the hundreds, if not the thousands, and I can tell that just based upon us trying to track down the short-term rentals, which is a full-time job for several people in a tourism department.

I know Kevin has staff and and myself.

I mean, we're talking hours and hours each month just on the short-term rentals.

If you extend that out to people renting a room in a house, again, I'm not discounting the the safety aspects of it, but the practical aspects of it, um, it it's it's a it's a huge issue.

Um you make such a big deal about short-term rentals, but long-term rentals, we do nothing.

So I mean, I understand what you're saying, but it just it just seems sad that we can't do more than that.

We can't make people have to improve their property so that they don't cause damage to other people or the loss of life.

I agree.

I know what you're talking about, but I think in one case the people didn't have no vehicles.

So you had no way, you know, you had no way of knowing.

I mean, is there these people didn't even have a vehicle?

They were just renting a place out, so you have no way of knowing.

A uh a singular piece of relief, uh, Commissioner Miller.

If you know, if if the building inspection department gets a building permit for a single room or removal of some structural component of the structure, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, counsel.

When they apply for that permit, uh essentially they are allowing entry.

And the ones that we have had the opportunity to address is those that are affiliated with those building permits.

And and most often than not, they don't even understand the red flag that will go up because of the linking of our departments.

So let's say they want to build on a sunroom.

It's nice, everybody wants a sunroom.

We get access.

Oh, what's this for?

Well, wait a minute, what's upstairs?

What's going on downstairs?

Two things can happen.

We have to straighten everything up, we gotta go into an R3 development, we've got to provide parking, the whole shooting match, or quite realistically, they just don't do the sunroom.

Well I appreciate you all's comments.

Thank you very much, Chris.

And unfortunately, you know, thinking about the car situation, you do have people that that have multiple cars, you know, just even just as a as a as a resident, yeah.

I've got several cars.

You know, if they're parked out there, you know, you somebody might hardly they might they might and they might misconstrue that that there these are into each car count constitutes one person.

And Dr.

Short, what would your reaction be if somebody from the city knocked on your door demanding entry because of the number of cars in your house?

That's what I'm saying.

I I understand that because I I see s the situations like that, but short of sitting there and watching every car, you know, sitting just across the street and watching what's going on.

I mean, that's just it's ludicrous.

I mean, I understand that's what I'm saying.

It's kind of hard to look and say, well, you got 10 cars, I mean you got 10 people in there.

Well, no, I don't.

You know, five of them are mine, two of them are wise.

Each of my kids have got one.

You know, you've got you got your you've got your number.

I will say that the city, uh obviously with the loss of life, the city is taking a hard look at this as far as what our options may potentially be.

There aren't really too many good ones.

And and with in speaking to the media and things like that, short of the General Assembly granting us additional authority.

I'm just not certain that we have the authority we need to act as as you you suggest.

When you said would he mind somebody coming in his place?

Usually people are doing the right thing won't mic.

They'll let you in.

It's people that aren't doing the right thing, and you don't want you to come in.

That's what I'd use the channel.

A good reflection of reality is is when the folks that uh do try and do the right thing, they'll call.

Well, you know, I would like to.

Well, certainly you need to do X, Y, and Z, and back to A, B, C and all the way back to Z, usually you don't hear from them ever again.

Um, you know, it's it's a dollar bill, and uh, you know, I don't forsake entrepreneurship.

It's it's pretty easy game, but uh if they have to follow the rules to to meet an R3 or not, I'll be allowed.

It's it's detrimental and it's it's a nice it's a nice shell game.

Okay.

Director's report.

Uh just some quick items.

Um, um Mr.

Miller asked about the manufactured housing and uh quick report.

We had a um concern um with some changes on a twelve hundred square foot minimum.

Um council and I have discussed this if you'd like to just chime in.

Um the issue with the with uh with having a minimum greater than what the statute has been changed to.

And I cry I'm I'm sorry, it's been a long day.

I can't remember the statute requires it to be nine hundred.

So for us requiring more than twelve hundred, again, uh it's this is a comprehensive legislative scheme.

And so the the legislature has said 900 is the minimum.

The analogy I will draw is a couple years ago you all may remember that the city of Louisville increased the minimum wage.

And when it was challenged in court, the Kentucky Supreme Court said no, that is a statutory floor, and wage an hour in Kentucky is a comprehensive legislative scheme because they didn't wanted to have um uniformity across the state to where if you you know go from one city to another, all of a sudden you're not looking at a different minimum wage, you're having to pay for McDonald's or something.

Here it's the same deal.

They want to have consistency as far as the minimum square footage, which is 900 feet.

And I wish I had a better answer for you, but under under the statutory uh scheme that we have to apply here under KRS 100, that's that that 900 is as large as we can require based upon the statutory language.

So with all the comments uh and suggestions given, everything else can stand, roof itch, uh resembling the the area, all of the skirting, the foundation and things of that nature, all of that can stand.

So after we have discovered this bit of information, we'll we'll present to you at the next meeting that ordinance and its uh full glory uh with our minimum little things that we can put in there and uh that'll be on the next meeting.

And I really think even with those those minimums and those requirements we have, I really think the key in the language is going to be that having to fit within the what one-eighth of a mile or whatever it is of the community to where that like is looking like like it's not you know, you're not gonna have a you know it's got it's got to fit where they're putting it, and that that may give us some additional enforcement to say, well, this this doesn't really work here, even though it may meet roof pitch and all that, you want to put a neon purple, you know, uh manufactured home here.

See if a builder's got a lot and he has money they want to build on, or can't build on whatever, and he wants to put a trailer, somebody wants to put a trailer on it and not buy it from it.

I can put a trailer on that.

You can't really refuse me to put a trailer on a lot.

If I if I go all the steps that you're supposed to have, I'd put it next to a million dollar house.

I can put it next to a 500 house, because there are no costs.

So that's why I think that's so bad.

That's such an over extension of the government of telling us what to do in our own area.

I think that's bad.

I really do.

But it's also the opposite.

And then it starts off saying they don't want to have problems with uh devaluing property.

You know, that's kind of if you put a trailer next to a 300,000, you're going to devalue it.

It uh yes, I agree, but I I will say the opposite of it is also true.

It's also preventing discrimination for any any any sort of anything.

That's really what this is for.

That's why it went to the federal level and why it passed.

There's a reason.

But there's discrimination, but then there's just plain common sense that it I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying from the opposite side.

And I relatives in live in traffic.

I have no problem with that.

People have lived in my road.

But it to put them next to somebody who's worked all their life for a house and then do that and devalue it.

It's kind of bad.

But isn't that where the like kind comes into play?

If it's a trailer wouldn't trail, it's still a trailer.

Yeah, it's a trailer.

Yeah, it would not fit in uh in a subdivision with half a million dollar plus homes.

So that would preclude that from happening, correct?

Correct.

Okay, good.

Yes, it will.

What?

Yeah.

Because it's gonna have to be like kind.

Square footage for that for that area.

For that subdivision.

But it has to be 900 square feet.

No, no, no.

The risk deed restrictions are what prevent manufactured homes because they have a minimum square foot.

In deed restrictions.

Yes.

I I would get calls all the time.

Within the subdivision itself, like deed.

I I would get calls all the time at Kentucky League of Cities about property use, and one of my first questions was always is are you in a deed restricted community?

Because once you sign that contract and move in, short of an active God or Congress, uh you're you're you you you've contracted for what you're having to live with.

And if you know if the if the fence has to be a certain look and the grass has to be a certain height, by golly, that's what you signed up for.

That's a little different than government saying you've got to do X, Y, and Z because there is a freedom of contract aspect to it, even though I know of a lot of some HOAs in other cities not here that are run like many people never even look at that.

They don't look at that when you buy a home, you're not dead.

Yeah, I I I deal with it, yeah.

Uh well, you're when you advise a client, you should always show them the deed at least.

Um, but you can also one of the biggest things for developers for them, they can actually start in I will say somewhat enforcing it because they can do the deed restriction.

It's up to them or the developer, pretty much at this point, because all the city lots are pretty much fair game.

Pretty much because it's not in the deed restrictions.

Wouldn't we have the power uh with planning and zoning when we get a new development to say with the provision that not that manufactured homes are not allowed in the subdivision?

At that point, I think you would rate I at that point I think you would almost look at a situation where it would be governmental coercion to contract.

They coerce us, don't they?

Well, but but essentially we would be we would uh be using that HOA as a stalking horse to carry out the governmental aims, and so I'm not saying it's impossible to do it that way.

I'd say it would take a an attorney probably sharper than I am to come up with a way to do that.

That you're not gonna be yeah, I I think if that approach is taken, you're looking at litigation almost immediately, and I think you're the city would be on the back foot because essentially you're using an HOA to do something the city otherwise would not be able to do.

Um not saying it's not saying it it can't be done, but that if that's something the city was interested in, I think it would take a lot of research to figure out a way to do that.

I think uh well within your means you can ask the developer, such as final plat here tonight.

Oh, by the way, um just out of curiosity, will you have deed restrictions, covenants and restrictions, and does it restrict manufactured housing?

They can tell you yes or no.

If they say yes, you have your answer.

Then you can also have where they come in and say we want to do a manufactured neighborhood, and you can have that just straight out.

So there's different ways to do it, but the deed restriction is technically the only way to prevent technicality.

That's that's it.

Um next we have the wonderful paycom.

It's the brand new way we keep track of time.

And I guess I understand that it will be extended to all commissioners as well.

So you will have uh a lovely little um account to set up.

Uh you'll need to answer a few questions, things of that nature.

You should have received any email.

If not, certainly you can uh take a peep at that once you get uh your tablets tonight.

Um the main thing here is um it is defaulted to set up for a paper check.

Of course, the city does not do paper checks, so that is one thing just be aware of.

You need to click that over, put in your uh automatic withdrawal information and uh your tax information.

It didn't carry over.

Um so those are things for your dependents, whoever you just need to put that in.

If you're not familiar with some of that information, you can certainly contact HR.

And there is also I think one other training um tomorrow.

Is it from nine to three nine to three upstairs in the training room?

If you have an opportunity, have some questions, have some trouble setting that up, you're very welcome to bring your tablet, um, phone, whatever you got, tablet would probably be the best.

Bring your tablet.

You can sit down with them one-on-one.

Uh it's our folks, R I T, R-H-R, it's not strange folks, so uh they'll help you with anything you may have.

Um I've been there twice, so don't do feel no shame.

What room is that?

Uh it's the training room upstairs on the second floor.

Nine to three.

Yes.

Uh the last thing is after adjournment, we will uh have IT hand out your tablets.

Uh I will leave all of that wonderful information and communication to the folks that knows it best.

So uh with that that is all I have.

Okay.

Any more questions, anything?

Yes, we'll adjournment.

I'll make a motion.

We adjourn for the evening.

Commissioner.

Short.

I'll second.

Mr.

De Grant.

Commissioner de Grant.

Yes.

Commissioner Francis.

Yes.

Commissioner Short?

Yes.

Commissioner Miller.

Yes.

Commissioner Perkins.

Yes.

Commissioner Miles.

Yes.

Commissioner Astell.

Yes.

So open invitation.

If you are computer side, please excuse yourself.

You don't want to have to stick around if you've got this under control, but if you have to have any questions or anything after you receive your tablet, it's very welcome.

Wonderful evening.

Doing very well.

Doing really well.

Wished I'd had this stuff done a long time ago, but uh take on along just good.

We're here now.