Good evening, everyone.

It is uh 5 31, so let's go ahead and get started so we are on time.

Uh welcome to the March 11th meeting of the Animal Well-being commission.

This meeting is now called to order.

Will the clerk please call the role to establish a quorum?

Yes, Chair.

Uh Commissioners, please unmute your microphones.

Commissioner Treat.

Present.

Commissioner Verga.

Present.

Commissioner Hayes.

Uh present.

Commissioner Buttagon is absent.

Commissioner Bell.

Here.

Commissioner Benedict.

Here.

Vice Chair Backley.

Here.

Commissioner Christie.

Here.

Commissioner Asquith.

Here.

Commissioner Few is absent.

Commissioner Morris.

Here.

Commissioner Garcia.

Here.

And Chair McDowell.

Here.

Thank you.

We have quorum.

Thank you.

I'd like to remind members of the public in the chamber that if you'd like to speak on an agenda item, please turn in a speaker slip before the item begins.

After the item is called, we will no longer accept speaker slips.

And you will have two minutes, which will be on the clock to speak once you're called on.

So we'll now proceed with today's agenda.

Yeah.

So please rise if you're able to for the opening acknowledgement in honor of Sacramento's indigenous people and tribal lands.

I'm gonna ask Commissioner Hayes to read it for us.

So the original people of this land.

So the original people of this land, the Nissanong people, the Southern Maidu Valley and Plains Miwok, Patwin, Wintoon peoples, and the people of the Wilton Rancheria, Sacramento's only federally recognized tribe.

May we acknowledge and honor the native people who came before us and still walk beside us today on these ancestral lands by choosing to gather today in the active practice of acknowledgment and appreciation for Sacramento's indigenous peoples history, contribution, and lives.

Thank you.

My name is Shannon Asquith, and I have sense of experience doing lots of different things in animal welfare, volunteering and working both at a local and national level, and I'm really excited to be back serving Front Street.

So super excited to sort of be home.

Next is approval of the consent calendar.

I don't have any speaker slips for this item.

Okay, thank you.

Are there any commissioners who wish to speak on this item?

Commissioner Morris.

I don't know which one I'm on the summit.

Commissioner Morris.

Separate the log from the minutes.

Do we add things now?

What is the process?

I can't.

Are you looking to correct things that are entered or add additional items?

Add additional items.

Those go at the end of the agenda.

Okay.

At items not on the not currently on the agenda.

So items to add to the follow-up log go at the end.

Yeah.

After after the discussion calendar, commissioner comments, ideas, and questions.

Follow-up log.

Okay.

Thank you.

Turn it off.

You want.

Commissioner Moore Sir Garcia.

Hi.

Another question on the follow-up log.

There's a lot on here.

If you kind of look at this, if you're putting one to two items per meeting, that's gonna be a ton of meetings.

Some of these things don't necessarily need to be on an agenda.

There are things that maybe folks can do on the outside.

Um kind of bring back to the meeting.

The uh biannual meetings that I think uh member treat wants to do.

Maybe folks can kind of work on that and bring that back.

This follow-up log is getting huge, and I'm not even sure city staff will know what the priorities are and how they're gonna agenda when we only have um one agenda item tonight, albeit that's a good thing because it's a really big one.

It's kind of it's kind of daunting to look at this.

And maybe we can refine it a little bit, combine a couple of the topics that may go together, um, so that we can actually kind of attack this monster.

I actually did it by have a question.

Uh some of the items on here, it seems like they could be uh removed or resolved.

Is there some is that a process we just do in between meetings, or is there something that needs to occur here?

Um for that to uh happen.

Yeah, so um the best way to do that then is when we're making recommendations of things to add to the follow-up log.

We can also make recommendations for things that no longer belong on the follow-up log and think if they're added to the taken or they're then that would be a good time probably to make those changes or to suggest those changes.

Okay, so we'll remember that then.

Okay, good.

It's too much.

Commissioner Verga.

I think my mic's on muted muted.

I don't think that um that uh Miss Bagley's um legal presentation is on the follow-up log, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, am I am I missing it though?

Maybe uh that does appear that it has it's no not listed.

Um that no, that was uh the one uh that she had suggested intake laws or laws that pertain to the shelter.

Yes, yes, go with correction.

That would be a correction yes, I had asked that the cruelty presentation be dropped, but I wanted the shelter law uh presentation still to be on the follow-up law.

And I did have another something that I noticed here just for clarification.

If nobody's waiting, uh we can make the correction about adding back shelter law.

Umis or verga.

So I understand what um Kathy was saying about um there's a lot of stuff on here.

And I guess what I was wondering, like some of these things um could maybe be on a work, the work plan, and I guess we can discuss that, like for instance, um a subcommittee on SOPS and Spainuter and various things, and I don't know if that's the time to discuss it now, but I I see that for instance one of the things here it says cat euthanasia list, and I didn't necessarily want that to be an agenda item.

I just wondered why the cat euthanasia list.

My understanding is it's not going out anymore.

So I don't know if that's something that we could just ask and have answered or what the process would be there.

Okay.

Yeah, so I don't I don't know if you have a thought on that.

So I have a question to uh Mr.

Vanderlinden.

Um not everything on the log need uh come forward as a presentation.

Is it possible to uh kind of rectify the log, for instance, through a uh kind of departmental memo to the commissioners, I would assume, um, or is that not the case?

Follow-up log is like flexible.

So I mean, if there are changes that need to be made uh between now and a future meeting, uh then I believe made to the follow-up log by staff to mirror the recommendations of people on the commission or the changes that uh they think ought to be made.

Um I don't know if it would require specifically an internal memorandum or anything of that nature.

Okay, that's for the listing on the log, but for the actual response to the item on the log, could that be transmitted in uh in a manner other than a presentation or a discussion at the commission?

Oh, I believe so, yeah.

So uh providing uh a brief um that I don't think there's any restriction under the Brown Act for staff being able to brief uh commissioners on specific topics of interest um as long as we you know follow the requirements of the Brown Act, I think that would be fine.

So in this specific instance of the cat euthanasia list, a response could be provided uh via a memorandum from staff as an example without necessarily necessating uh a staff presentation or discussion.

Yeah, it would just depend on the nature of the item, um, and it would depend on kind of what the uh the follow-up log uh contains as far as a recommendation, whether there was a requested staff presentation or whether there was requested memorandum of that kind of or if there's no recommendation, you know, that's also what's on to any particular item.

Understood, thank you.

I I would just like to say that it seems like some of these questions are pretty simple questions.

Right that we could have answered while we're here, but I I don't know, you know, how that might work.

If that would be the comments for at the end of the agenda, you know, uh commissioner comments and questions?

I don't know.

I would uh so I would defer to council uh on it um with respect to um uh I think there probably could be um answers to questions in uh city man in manager comments, etc.

It just could not be a discussion item per se.

Right.

I apologize.

Uh IT was telling me about my new microphone.

Oh sorry.

Can you please repeat the question?

The the the question uh uh let's use cat euthanasia list as as an example.

Um if that is a straightforward response, a question of fact that staff could respond to in theory, it could be responded to in the meeting, not even uh uh for instance under perhaps my comments, etc.

And not require memoranda or anything else as long as it does not become a discussion item.

Right, yeah, I think that would be appropriate, yeah.

All right, are there any other comments from commissioners regarding the follow-up or excuse me, the consent calendar, which would include the minutes from last month and the uh follow-up log?

So any corrections on the follow-up log, now would be the time.

Um not new uh new items, but any corrections on anything currently listed.

I mean, I are you on uh uh Commissioner Morris.

Thank you.

Um I just wanted to clarify because it seemed like the presentation from Commissioner Bagley had been rewritten, so I was curious what's incorrect in the statement that's here in the log.

Just to get us uh the first page of the log is the tenth row, they're not numbered, but it says redemption policy applicable law and spay neuter incentivization.

Vice Chair Bagley requested that's a totally different thing.

Okay, what what is the other that you would be doing?

Talking about overall shelter law, what's legal in California as well as the city codes?

So we probably just revised this to say No, this is a separate this would be a separate item.

This is a discussion regarding the first and second and subsequent redemptions and returns to owner that require spay and neuter sometimes or other times when we can incentivize SPA neuter shelter law presentation, current law in California and in the codes is a totally different thing that was dropped off this follow-up log.

Okay.

Had previously been on there as a cruelty presentation.

Yeah, and I'm we've we've dropped the cruelty presentation.

Okay, thank you for clarifying.

I was just curious about the difference between what was here and what what the idea is.

So thank you.

Uh Commissioner Garcia.

Okay, so if we wanted to some of the things removed off of here, because some of them are are clearly just informational things that don't need to be discussed.

Um one of the questions on here was about kitten connection.

We got a little bit of information on that today.

And does that suffice as part as not having a discussion?

When we do this at the end of the meeting, it's not really a discussion item.

How do we remove things or request things be moved or someone volunteers to just take that on and get some of that information for us?

Um just to kind of thin this out a little bit.

Sounded like from council that we would remove those at the end.

Is that correct?

Yes, I I think that would be the appropriate time for it.

Do you have to vote for it?

Vote on each one or no, uh I don't think there would be a vote that would be required in this particular instance.

It's just um just like making a recommendation for the follow-up log, making a recommendation to remove something.

I imagine would work the same way.

So are we gonna go like line item by lineup?

There's so many of them.

Um I can see a handful.

I would suggest when we get to that point that like commissioners just propose which ones, like for example, I can tell you uh personally, um, I would suggest that additional spay neuter's events, shelter manager report in advance, and pre-COVID capacity all be removed.

Yep, uh, because they were actually just questions and didn't necessarily have to go on the log, right?

But they're there, so we can at the end.

Uh and and I I would suggest if anyone opposes removing something, that's when you can speak up.

And if if it needs to be there needs to be a vote to keep something on because there is um a difference of opinions, then we could do a vote.

But other than that, I I defer to council, but it doesn't seem like a vote.

If someone had an opposition to it being removed, it's kind of under comment, so do you mind if I just jump in quick?

So I think that if the idea is someone on the commission would like a an item to be taken off the follow-up log, I think then they would make that recommendation during that portion of the agenda.

And if someone disagrees to avoid it becoming a uh discussion item at that point, we just probably leave it on the follow-up log.

Yeah, um, if there's any disagreement about removing it.

Okay.

Commissioner Benedict.

Yeah, mine's just a quick um actually just a request.

If we could get this number, it'd be really helpful.

And the second thing is if we could get some sort of prioritization too, we could prioritize like some things are more.

I know we uh had uh discuss that um at the previous meeting.

Uh council was to get back to us on if there would be a way to vote or somehow to figure out how uh so that all commissioners can have a say in putting these in priority order.

So my understanding is that uh first staff is uh paying attention to recommendations on the follow-up log and your recommendations a priority uh as far as like if commissioners identify a high priority item, then they would identify that as such on the follow-up log.

Um my understanding is that staff is currently formulating uh different ways.

Um, and again, I'm not sort of privy to these discussions, but to um come to an understanding of what the high priority items are uh for the commission so that they can then use that in combination with the follow-up log to uh set future agendas.

So we're working on how to identify, but if any I would suggest if any commissioner here has a really burning desire of something that is a high priority, bring it up at the end when we're in discussion, and so we can um uh discuss that, and if you know somebody has some differing opinion, certainly feel free to bring it.

But you know, it would be good for this, you know, commissioners to identify, you know, uh yeah, because it is an extensive list, uh you know, where your your heart and passion lives.

Thank you, manager Jassa.

Sure.

I I think that makes a lot of sense, and I think um uh perhaps uh during that uh portion um Ryan can uh can speak of some of the different mechanisms.

I don't know if we resolve, for instance, whether we could poll the members to see how they would uh kind of rank things, etc.

Um, uh to look at it at that point.

That way there is both every everyone is aware of it, but there's anonymity as well as kind of an opportunity to every commissioner speak up on their specific uh priorities.

Any other comments on the consent calendar?

All right, hearing none.

Um is there a motion to approve the consent calendar?

So move.

Second.

All in favor, and we're doing oral votes, so if you please speak up, all in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

Any abstentions?

Motion passes.

All right, we're now gonna proceed to the discussion calendar.

All right, first on our agenda is a discussion of methods to promote adoption or rescue of senior animals and animals at risk of euthanasia.

Umager Jasso, I did have a question for you because the it states on here recommendation is review and comment.

I know this board has this commission has stated previously that uh there was interest in uh formulating a recommendation for the city council and bringing it forward with it stating review and comment versus recommendation.

Is this commission still able to make a recommendation to city council?

Sorry.

Um so my understanding is is it is a uh it is possible.

I would uh once again ask uh kind of Mr.

Vanderlinden to to speak to that.

Um, but it is it is fundamentally a review and comment with respect.

The comment is to staff specifically in this meeting, um, but it is possible to convey that to the city council as well.

Yeah, so formally um because this agenda item is for review and comment, um, there would be no action taken on this item in this meeting.

And I think the reason for that is because they if I had to guess, review and comment is for allowing a discussion to take place uh where we can see if there's any sort of consensus or if there are diverging opinions on this particular topic to give us kind of a forum for debate and discussion at this time, and then at that point, that recommendation would be clear to staff who would then add it as a future agenda item for making a recommendation where we would vote on a recommendation, or this rather this commission would vote on a recommendation to be sent to PNPE and then to city council.

Um, and I think the reason is because staff wouldn't really be in a position to presuppose what the recommendation of the commission would be uh before adding it to the agenda and before having a debate.

So the idea is the debate and the discussion happens first, that's review and comment, and then at a future meeting, we add that as an agenda item uh where it would be uh listing the recommendation and then saying that the recommended action would be to forward uh a recommendation to P and PE at that point.

Um, it could also include if there are diverging opinions uh that come out of the review and comment today in the discussion today, um it could be set up in sort of a way where it says uh recommend uh recommended action would be to make a recommendation to uh city council, and then it would have options of what that essentially represent what those diverging opinions would be, at which point the commission would then be able to decide on uh which recommendation they would like to make.

So just for clarification, um so this uh commission does not formulate their own our own recommendation, it's formulated by staff based on discussion.

Well, this commission does formulate its own recommendations, um, with especially with respect to the annual report that's made uh to city council.

That's the primary way for making recommendations, but outside of the annual report mechanism, this falls under other recommendations in uh the uh city of Sacramento Council rules of procedure.

Um and with those other recommendations, essentially um you are coordinating with city staff uh in order to bring that recommendation outside of that annual report recommendation.

Uh so then staff would bring it back, and if you disagree with that recommendation, you are not under any obligation to make that recommendation, and you can uh tell staff that you would prefer a different recommendation to come before uh the commission.

Okay, uh you're under no obligation to simply accept whatever recommendation staff puts before you, the choices ultimately with the commission.

Um I've got a few questions regarding this language here, review and comment.

Um everything that you were just talking about, is that a new procedure here as it pertains to commissions?

No, I've never heard it in the five years that I've been coming to these meetings before.

Yeah, so that's not a new rule.

This is part of just the procedures for advisory commissions as they've existed.

Yeah.

And another question.

The recommendation, review and comment.

Who makes that decision for that to be on this agenda?

That that, okay, so staff that's Front Street, or that's the clerk, or that's all of the above.

Can you clarify, please, who makes that decision for language?

Review and comment.

So staff uh at animal care services specifically and uh community development who formulate the agenda would decide that recommended action as it is stated on the agenda.

Gotcha.

So um, Mr.

Jasso, are you aware of the meaning of this this language here?

And did you approve of this language?

Review and comment versus review and make a motion.

So I think the So I think the the challenge, and I think Mr.

Vanderlinden hit uh hit the nail on the head, is at this point in time, staff doesn't know what a recommended action is, but because it has not been discussed at the at this DIS, and that will happen tonight.

So our task then is based on the discussion that has uh happened to translate that and or at least certainly kind of properly convey that to a kind of recommendation.

Perhaps the recommendation is clear, there's unanimity on on this DIES as to what it wants to bring forward.

Our task then would be to bring that forward in another meeting for a vote by this body that gets transmitted as uh Mr.

Vanderlyn was saying to PPE and ultimately to city council.

So at this point, it is a review and comment because the fact that we as staff do not know where this commission sits as a whole or individually on the topic in front of us.

So we would but but to be clear across commissions and including the city council, review and comment is common terminology.

I understand that that's common terminology, but uh again, I'd I'd like to read the purpose of this commission.

Because I want the commissioners to understand why this language is a problem.

Okay, and so it says the commission is established for the purpose of providing advice and recommendations to the city council on strategies, policies, and programs designed to ensure enhance animal care services.

Now, oftentimes I've seen on these agendas, it says uh review, discuss, and make a motion.

And I think this language is intentional that it says review and comment, not make a motion.

Um I'm just wondering why.

Um, because it sounds like you're saying we have to have first of all, this is the first agenda item this year that we've been able from the follow-up blog that has been on the agenda.

Um last month there was none.

And and now you're telling us that we can't make a motion, we can't have a discussion, make a motion and vote.

I mean, isn't the making the motion and voting as a body as to what the language should be, um the process.

My understanding of rules, so so uh I don't think anything that uh cars uh that uh Mr.

Vanderlin and Carson, I'm just gonna call you Carson Fries of uh uh discussion, um, uh precludes the ability of this body to recommend and ultimately consummate in a motion on this.

But at this point in time, we as staff would not know what that motion is to put it on the agenda to suggest a vote on that motion at this point in time.

We will uh presumably hopefully after this discussion gonna uh have that ability to do so.

So um I think uh you can uh assist me if I'm characterizing the situation uh correctly in terms of our normal rules and procedures.

So so wait, just to summarize, it sounds like if this commission were to come to a consensus tonight, they could we could formulate a recommendation and vote.

No, so the review and com so I'm sorry, would be at the next meeting, correct?

Yes, so the review and comment would be tonight, so that would be the debate and the discussion on the topic.

Then if there is a consensus, as you said, and uh let's say everyone in the commission agrees on like one particular policy, uh, and we don't have any other recommended policies uh being brought up.

At that point, uh staff would be able to make it an agenda item for the next meeting, and it would be agendized as including the recommended action being to make a recommendation to make a motion to recommend uh this to city council.

And if there are diverging opinions, we could split it so that it's the same agenda item, but there are two different options for the kinds of you know recommendation we could make uh at that point, and or you know, it could increase depending on how many different diverging opinions there are.

Um, and that would be the way to do it because then it would be an agendized item with that recommended action, um, and that would be in compliance with the Brown Act.

As of right now, because the agenda is only review and comment, specifically so we can get that debate and discussion and hopefully consensus on this policy matter.

Um there wouldn't be an action to take.

Uh, and so it would have to be at the next uh meeting or when it's uh agendized in the future.

Okay.

Uh Commissioner Morris.

So just a little bit of or orientation.

Um historically, at least since I've been on the commission for three years, recommendations go have gone in the annual report.

They haven't gone one at a time in piecemeal, so to speak.

They've gone as a summary to annual report.

Um could be different, but that's sort of how it's functioned uh previously.

I also want to say the idea of promoting animals who may be at risk is an idea that actually I think Kathy and I at least talked about after we toured Stanislaw and saw some work that they were doing to promote animals.

So I'm supportive of promoting animals at risk.

I'm just saying I'm not sure if that is a thing that goes to city council, or is that a uh a recommendation within our relationship with the staff at the shelter or with Mr.

Jasso to whom shelter reports up, is my understanding.

It's sort of like the brochure.

We talked about translating brochures.

They didn't this didn't go to city council, it was work that the commission forwarded and worked with staff at the at the um at the shelter to initiate once we all said, yeah, it's a good idea, let's do it.

So I I think we could dialogue about how to promote at-risk animals and recommend that to shelter colleagues and not necessarily have to wait till it goes to city council.

I mean, ultimately, as it seems to me, they report up a chain of command, and so going with that.

Sorry.

Do you want to sorry I'm muted?

No, I think that's correct.

Not everything uh in the sense of uh recommendation might come out of uh this body that staff is absolutely in agreement with and embraces, and so presumably there would need be no need to go to city council or to because it would be something that's adopted by the policy by the by the shelter and by management myself, all the way up through the city uh manager.

And so um it really depends on the nature of what is the dialogue, what is the topic in question here?

We were simply responding to the specific example here of how things move up.

Um, and if I can give you an example, for instance, we are currently in the budget process as the city, we present to city council, we're going through a series of presentations where we are presenting for review and comment the city's budget uh in pieces.

The council is not voting on that budget during these pre at these presentations.

They will come forward and ultimately vote on that budget based on that that just those various discussions that are taking place.

So it's a parallel here.

Umce again, uh, with this being on the agenda, not knowing the position of this body, you know, we could not express that in a kind of to adopt a motion to to recommend or approve.

So that's where we're at right now.

And I I will make a commitment here in the sense of that depending on where this body is, we will accurately portray those kind of recommendations or splits in recommendations as they may be.

So uh Commissioner Burdick, uh Benedict, sorry.

Thank you.

Um, yeah, so thank you for that.

I was um just uh wondering if uh, since we're you know, since this um, like say, for example, the final plea is open for a review and comment, would it be a stretch if we were also to come to an agreement and make a motion and also vote on it, since you know, why do we have to push it to the next week if we you know if we can actually get something done here tonight, you know?

Um something as simple as final plea, which is gonna save lives like right off the top.

Sorry, I'm getting used to my microphone.

Um so I'm just kind of explaining the way that a recommendation outside of the annual report, like how that would snake through uh to uh coming to PNPE at this point.

So the idea would be to make a motion when it is agendized with an actionable motion that can be made.

Um so that would end up being to uh have it go the next um you know, when it is agendized, um not at this particular meeting.

Um I also uh want to say in respect to uh what Commissioner Morris said is that if there is a willingness between the commission and staff to cooperate on a specific matter, it may not need to have a formal motion or go before uh the uh city council or in PMP at all.

It just depends on you know what uh the nature of that uh agreement and cooperation would look like, uh, and it depends on the issue.

Another thing that I think uh I forgot to mention when I was kind of explaining this process before, but I think is important is that doing it this way with review and comment first and then a uh motion in a future meeting is also to allow the public uh to kind of hear the debate uh and the discussion as it happens and then be able to provide their own input at a future meeting uh and gather their thoughts and then provide their opinions and ideas uh at a future meeting where we're set to actually make the recommendation so we get final info input from the public uh before we make any recommendation.

And I by the way, I did want to uh let the public know there are a lot of new commissioners, so we're learning and feeling our way, and we appreciate your tolerance to this uh discussion of the weeds.

Sorry.

Uh Commissioner Verga.

Um I just want to make a point of order that I think that um in light of in particular um of Mr.

Hinderman's comments at the last meeting, in which he clearly indicated that the change to the agenda setting protocols was because he was essentially retaliating against commissioners who he felt had undermined um Front Street in the past, and that was a very clear public statement that he made on the record, and so I have grave concerns that this language here, which was optional language, um, was intentionally put place there so that we could not make a motion and vote on this.

And if you again look at the purpose of this commission, it is precisely to do that, it's not to have an agendized discussion.

We're talking about the Brown Act here.

They're members of the public who can speak to this agenda item right now.

They can engage and ask questions.

Um, and it it just seems rather suspicious, in my opinion, that this language is put in here, and Leah was talking about um that couldn't we all come to agreement with shelter staff.

We have tried to get the shelter staff to implement this program, a final plea that Bradshaw has implemented successfully, and many other shelters have implemented successfully for very long time, and he made it clear on this dais that he called it advertising and he had no interest in doing it.

Further, the email that um uh Ryan sent out made clear, please don't do this, you know, in my opinion, that it was very clear that that he is reluctant to be uh implementing any program like this.

Um, and so um I I look we all have busy lives, you know, we have families, we have jobs, we have a lot of different obligations, and we come here to help animals.

That is at the end of the day, I'd like to think why everybody is here, and when we finally get something on the agenda that's a discussion item that ideally we could be taking a motion on and voting, then we're told we can't.

Oh, we have to discuss it further, and then we'll come back that you're gonna put the staff will put language together, um, and then we're gonna come back and discuss it further.

That just quite frankly sounds like nonsense to me, to be honest with you.

And I I, for one, um I'd like to table this item until we get clear on how all this agenda setting um stuff works, because we're finding out new and different things all the time.

And again, what I asked last time, I said has the law changed.

You know, what what has changed that the follow-up logs different?

What has changed that the you know, the the process and procedure um has has so significantly changed this year?

And I think Ryan gave us that answer last time.

Would you agree?

Oh well, I I was not at the last meeting, so I can't agree or disagree uh kind of with respect to it.

I will only tell you that uh in my role sitting here representing the city manager, I'm open to any conversation, and uh that that doesn't mean that shelter staff may not have a different professional view with respect to it, which we will as as kind of management would be attentive to as we will to the deliberations of this commission.

My understanding though is that our goal isn't to agree with point of order.

Yeah, point of order.

Okay, go ahead.

Umtreat, did you remove yourself?

Well, I took myself off real quickly, and I'm the only one that didn't see the report for this committee before it went to city council.

I never saw yes, well, it was printed afterwards, but I mean when it went to city council, I didn't get a copy of it.

Well, the annual report for 2025 was presented and adopted here in November of last year.

Oh, and I'm gonna go to the next one.

So okay, so if you miss a meeting, you don't see the report.

Okay.

It was in it was in the packet, it's published, it was published in the November packet.

And it was I just remember Commissioner Bagley moved it.

Madam Chair was discussed.

In she wasn't chair at the time.

But it I at being present at the meeting, yes, it was discussed.

Yeah.

Um and then the 2026 work plan, uh, the previous chair entered for this year blank.

So that does remind me as we have discussions about different items uh to recommend to the commissioners to think about things that you would like to do, like projects related to different items in the shelter that um so we can add things into that uh work plan because right now it it was gifted to us this year blank, so we do need to uh try and and get some items on there.

So it was just blank.

The 2026 work plan was blank.

Okay, 25.

I saw it was 26.

Yes, yeah.

Uh Commissioner Morse.

So I I'm curious about the attachment that was with this item, because I am hoping that we can actually discuss what it is we would like to see, and that's where I'm getting lost in we're having quite a bit of back and forth about process, but my I do know for example that one of the ideas that we wondered about was, for example, um uh a screen at the shelter reception area that said, Hey, look at Fluffy.

Um Fluffy is an at-risk dog.

There is a presentation.

If we get so can we move?

Can we have that and then we could do the discussion or is Brian doing that discussion or whom I know there was an attachment, so that's around like let's get into it.

Uh Commissioner Benedict.

Uh yes, um, I I guess I just have another question.

Um, because uh you had mentioned that if the uh discussion happens here, then the shelter staff goes back and they then bring it back next month.

What if there's um what if our recommendation or our comments are incorrect?

Does that go another month?

Or can we just talk about it and maybe come up with some changes of recommendations uh next month, or you know, will this keep we'll kick keep kicking this down the road?

How does that work?

Um from our perspective, I I think we would uh certainly be endeavoring to encapsulate the pr uh the right language that comes out of here in terms of um the uh recommendations observations of this commission and bring that uh uh forward.

I would think that if we incorrectly uh catch it, um I would think there's an opportunity to correct it and still kind of um kind of move on the item.

I would defer to Carson once again on that I mean um as far as if there is a discussion uh regarding a draft agenda.

I mean, it would largely be up to uh staff and you know, chair and vice chair or commission members to coordinate on what the wording of the recommendation would be.

Um but again that's up to individual uh commission members and staff to kind of coordinate those efforts.

So just clarify we have a discussion today, some consensus concession or consensus comes out.

Staff would then try to formulate it into a recommendation, bring it back to the meeting next month, and then this commission could then modify it as we normally do for other things.

I believe so.

I believe so.

I think um what I was kind of referring to was prior to, uh, but again, that's up that would be up to uh staff and commissioners to kind of coordinate.

Okay, and then Commissioner Verga.

I would just like to go on record as saying that I think it's important that we have a discussion today, and that there's a motion and a vote, and I'd like assurance from Mr.

Jasso that you know there's a point to this.

In other words, that this commission will be heard, um, and that that whatever that motion is or whatever we come up with here is not going to be significantly changed because as we've seen, we're we're not even setting that agenda, the commission isn't.

The the Friend Street staff is doing that.

And so I I'm just wondering what the point of this commission of us all being here is if it's just gonna be changed.

I can give you my assurance that uh kind of we will uh uh uh endeavor to accurately portray the discussion, etc.

As to the uh fine point that you made that that there would be a vote tonight.

Um I um I do not necessarily believe that's possible, but I would refer to council on that.

There cannot be a motion and vote taken tonight because the recommended action was to review and comment.

So there cannot be a motion.

Then who's gonna decide what language is considered by staff from this discussion?

So it sounds like we have a discussion.

If this commission comes up with a consensus that we can state the consensus, but apparently not as a motion for it to come back to us next month and allow for public comment.

That yes, that's correct.

Uh that is my understanding.

And I apologize if it seems clunky uh to do it in that way.

I'm just trying to express what the proper procedure would be so that the commission is able to express its recommendation to city council as is allowed in the uh in the ordinance and the uh council rules of procedure.

Carson, one point of clarity, a public comment is allowable tonight on this uh item.

It would be in the context of just the discussion at the next whenever it comes forward as a whether there's a precise recommendation, uh, Kanav's body, etc.

There would also be that opportunity for public comment at that point.

Yes.

Commissioner Berga.

Well, I'd really like to call for an adjournment.

Um, because I think this is quite frankly outrageous that this kind of conduct keeps happening.

But um, I will defer to the commission if they would like to discuss this.

I put my name in.

We have a presentation and then we can talk about language amongst this commission that we think might so first for clarification point of order.

Is that a motion to adjourn?

Or will you allow the presentation and discussion?

Well, we can add the discussion as futile as it may be.

Uh Commissioner Morris, did you have anything else besides you want to hear?

If we could move to the presentation, and then we could talk about what what an at risk program looks like.

Thank you.

Okay.

Uh, and again, public, thank you so much for your forbearance in in this discussion.

Um, so Brian, are you making the presentation?

All right.

Yes.

Yeah, thank you.

Mr.

Vanderlinden, is it uh would it be acceptable for me to read a short portion of uh the email that I sent to the the commission and briefing for this item?

Yeah, if it's in the same subject matter as your presentation.

Okay.

I just wanted to to clarify, I feel like my email was mischaracterized somewhat.

I just want to you know express that you know, in the briefing materials to kind of prepare us to have the most efficient conversation possible.

Obviously, the shelter is not already doing these programs, so I wanted you to have you know background information on why that is so that you could you know prepare and do research and and so we could have you know the most balanced conversation possible.

Um so I did you know provide some concern, initial concerns, but I also just want to point out that I that I said that said, I also recognize that potential benefits exist, referencing this style of marketing, and I'm open to hearing your ideas and possibly experimenting with a version of this type of marketing that balances the risks and the benefits.

My hope is for us to have a balanced discussion that fairly weighs both the pros and cons of these methods so we can assess what would lead to the best outcomes for animals.

So I'm gonna clear that up.

So just a little bit of context, because I think I think we need it, I think we need a little bit of a reset here, is that there are a lot of different methods that a shelter can use, whether it's for adoptions or getting more animals back home or addressing a spay neuter crisis.

There's probably hundreds of different methodologies a shelter can use, and many have sort of changed over the years.

The goal, my personal goal, and I think the goal of the shelter overall is to use the methodologies that are going to lead to the most animals helped and the least animals suffering.

And at least from my perspective, there's no dogmatic attachment.

I want to know, and I want to get to the truth, and that's why I'm I'm excited about this this commission eager to get talking about these things, to get down to the truth of what's gonna help animals the most.

And no method that we discuss here this year is is gonna be perfect.

There's gonna be pros and cons to just about everything.

Every action has some sort of consequence, both positive and negative.

And so, just as kind of a foundation, I just want to say that if the shelter is doing a certain method, it's because we feel that the pros outweigh the cons for animals for that method.

If we're not using a method, it's because, at least currently, we feel that the cons outweigh the pros.

Oh, this this goes to my uh future, my uh last presentation.

This isn't this presentation.

So if we're if we're not doing something, it's because we feel that the cons outweigh the pros for animal welfare.

So it's still coming from that place of caring for animals, just from a different perspective.

Now, when it comes to this topic, historically, how we felt, at least shelter, shelter leadership, um, and you know, myself is as the marketing lead over the last decade, has been that this methodology, at least our prediction, would do more harm to animals than good.

And so, my goal in in my presentation here is to give you as much information from the shelter side from my experience as possible so that you can make a recommendation to council.

But uh, as assistant city manager Michael Jasso said, and I'm gonna, well, the commitment I'll make is that the shelter, as long as we can have you know good, healthy dialogue, is always open to new information and to change in our mind.

I'm kind of a I'm kind of a scientific person and with science, you never just commit to something, you always are open to new information and for that to be wrong.

So I want to I wanna put that out there.

Um and so you know, what I can say to you, and kind of why I included the briefing materials with the pros and cons chart is at least personally how to change my mind, and I think you know, others at the shelter, is using the strongest evidence possible, show that the pros outweigh the cons for a method and demonstrate that that method is feasible within budgetary staffing and other sorts of restrictions.

So I'll give our shelters stance on this.

Um, but I do want to you know present the pros of this idea.

I think it's really important any time you have a disagreement with someone is to acknowledge the good things about their ideas.

There is no, there are rarely disagreements where there are not great points on the other person's side, right?

So just I just want to acknowledge that what are the pros of you know this this type of marketing where you know euthanasia dates or euthanasia risk is really kind of put put out there in front of the in front of the public as a marketing tool.

Pros is it could motivate someone to choose a dog that is at risk instead of another dog.

I know that was that was brought up, I think when um uh Commissioner Venedick when you're talking about the kennel, the kennel sign uh method.

Um it could save a life that otherwise wouldn't have been saved.

And it may make it more likely for rescues to pull that animal.

This has been a point that's brought up that I think is a good point, because you know, they might see it in an email, but with social media, if they're being tagged, they're seeing the photos, it's more powerful messaging, and there is a certain degree uh possibly of social pressure on that rescue to um you know to step in and help that dog.

So I just want to recognize that there are you know pros to these ideas.

So as far as uh concerns that we've we've had, and that other shelters have as well.

Uh not all shelters, there's as I mentioned in my email, there's there's a pretty big split here.

Um but uh one is projected effectiveness.

So a lot of shelters um, you know, I we uh met with uh Bradshaw Animal Shelter about their final plea program um in advance of this meeting, and you know, one of the qu they had mentioned that you know, um I think just about all the dogs that had been on final plea had either been adopted or rescued.

Um, and so one of the things that I asked them is like, have you kind of done any research to determine if that was correlation?

So for example, you post them and then a certain period of time after they get adopted or rescued, or was it causation?

Did the person who adopted that dog or did the rescue, did you follow up to that where they said, yes, that method, be it a kennel sign or a final plea, or some or a section of the website, I think has also been brought up.

Did they take that dog because of that method?

And we actually looked at this, they said they hadn't done that, they hadn't done that research.

Um we did this research with our social media about three years ago.

We posted um 37 dogs that were either hard to adopt or medium difficulty to adopt, and I can get into what that means if you're interested.

But um essentially, you know, we did really high quality posts for 37 of these dogs.

They weren't, you know, this dog will be euthanized posts, but there were there were posts that were you know really trying to convey the great things about this dog.

There were some really high effort videos done as well.

Umly one out of the 37 of those dogs was adopted because of the Facebook post, so we or or the Instagram post.

We followed up with every single adopter.

We called them and we said, where did you first see this dog?

Vast majority was they saw them on the website or they saw them at the shelter.

Um I could do a presentation on that study sometime if you're interested.

Um so that's that is that is one thing to consider is perhaps you know, putting the red sirens, putting the date, maybe that would make a huge difference.

Uh possibly.

And so that's kind of what we're we're open to kind of talking about there.

Um but I do just want to point out that shelters fall in different camps here.

So for us, we tend to focus mostly on like our adoption events as a life-saving tool, and that's kind of where we put our urgency and sort of our life-saving method messaging.

We don't use euthanasia, but we say, hey, we really need your help to save lives.

It's sort of alluded to in an indirect way.

Um other shelters, you know, the Stanislaus, for example, I know they have like a volunteer page as well, is very um uh very forward about the euthanasia as a means of marketing.

And you kind of have Radshaw that's sort of in the middle, the way that they word things, I think is actually probably the most um the best I've seen it done of this style of marketing.

I think I've seen it done in a way that I think it really turned a lot of people off.

But I think theirs is kind of middle of the road.

So we all do things a bit differently.

I just want to point out in 2025, Front Street's dog live release rate, 86%.

Stannis loss live release rate for dogs, 86%.

Bradshaw's live release rate for dogs, 86%.

So I just want to set kind of the efficacy aspect of this to say that this, you know, we might do something, and every life saved is important.

That's I'm I want to make that clear.

But this may not revolutionize what we're doing.

All shelters seem to be facing these major plateaus and major hurdles, and there may be other things that could be even more effective that we could you know talk about and um kind of put time into.

Um so that being said, the other thing is that it could harm what does work, and especially for those hard to adopt dogs, what I've seen work over the last 10 years is just giving enough time for for the right person to come in.

You know, our outward marketing to like our Facebook page, almost all of those folks they know about us, they've known about us for years.

Many have adopted from us, our most loyal followers, they have animals.

It's the people who often come to us, the 40 to 70,000 website visitors that come to the shelter every year, the thousands of in-person visitors uh that come to the shelter every year, those are the people who are in the market coming to us.

And so my concern is that this style of marketing, depending on how it's done, and I'm open to discussing that, and and the magnitude of which it's done, could deter those general adoptions, resulting in less adoptions, which puts more uh pressure, which creates more crowding, more illness, more stress on those animals whose mental health leads them to having these behavior problems that lead to adoptability issues.

Um and so that is that is one of the concerns, and one of the things I hope everyone had a chance to watch at least those sections of the webinar that I sent is that the study that was done on California adopters found that let's see, I have it here, uh it was about 50, like basically of the people who did not adopt from shelters, about half the number one reason, 50% of the reasons of them said the reason they hadn't visited or adopted is because they had fear that it would be a bad experience for them, specifically referencing sadness and euthanasia concerns as their reason for not visiting those shelters and not adopting.

Um so that is that is kind of the concern is you know, we've done a great job as an industry, and credit Sarah McLaughlin to convey to the public like that there is there is an urgent need for life saving.

That's already out there.

What this study is saying is that we need to focus on the other messaging and not turn off those and capitalize on this untapped market again, going back to that plateau.

How can we get the people who are not adopting to choose sheltering first?

And one of the concerns that we have is this sort of messaging is according to this data going to turn people off from uh coming in to visit.

And then another thing is, as I mentioned, are our adoption events.

Those are our number one life-saving tool.

And I think Front Street perhaps has done these, you know, uh better than better than many.

Uh I can show you videos.

It's it's not as good now that the Facebook algorithms have changed and local pages aren't being promoted as much.

But man, we used to get hundreds of people in line around the block to adopt when we were in crisis and when when we were at risk of euthanasia for space.

Um that is still a very effective tool for us.

And the reason it's effective is because we use that urgent messaging and we don't overuse it.

We use it only when we need to, and so those audiences that are seeing these posts, they're not getting you know desensitized by this, right?

It's like you hear a joke multiple times, you get more and more desensitized to it, it stops having that same reaction, and that reaction is what causes people to literally click the reactions and to share, which gets that messaging in front of many more people.

So if we're, let's say, every week doing these posts like these dogs urgently need to get out, these dogs urgently need to get out, and then we hit an adopt a time where we need an adoption event, and we say we have we are completely full, there's an urgent need for adoptions, we're waiving adoption fees.

My concern is that that could become less effective, and that tool is the most important life-saving tool when we get full.

It it a one single post can get dozens and dozens of dogs adopted, and that's often when those hard-to-place dogs finally do get adopted because uh there's finally a bigger supply than there is a demand, so people are actually considering these harder to adopt dogs.

So I'm very protective of the of the adoption events because I know that they are our number one um life-saving tool when we get into trouble.

Um, so some context there.

And then very last thing is just you know, adopting for the wrong reason.

We've had these sorts of posts come up, you know, uh on social media.

Other people have posted these dogs.

This dog will be, you know, euthanized on on this date, or worse words than that, used.

Um, and people have come down knowing nothing about the dog, being totally unprepared.

We've had to deny a lot of adoptions, at least for the people who are honest with us about their home environment.

A lot of the dogs that could be at risk have behavior issues that could potentially be a safety issue if it's not managed in the right home.

And we've even seen dogs that um you know have been you know adopted from us in in these situations, later seeing them trying to be re-homed on social media by people who took them because they they had concerns about the euthanasia.

So um that would be the last reason.

So um that is kind of the perspective from the shelter.

I know many of you have um experience in other areas.

I'm very open to hearing it, very open to talking about how we can experiment um with this.

We've already had some initial conversations about this already.

So turn it over to the commission to to hear your thoughts, answer questions.

Uh thank you.

Uh Clark, are there any members of the public that wish to speak?

I have no speaker slips for this item.

All right, thank you.

Um would like to speak.

Uh Commissioner Bagley or Christy.

It's actually me.

Thank you.

Um thank you, Ryan.

I just want to appreciate the data and the research that you're bringing into this because obviously it's one of the most emotional topics that we cover short of the euthanasia conversation.

And you know, I think our emotions can steer us wrong, or we might assume that everyone's feeling the same emotions that we are when we see an animal that's in jeopardy.

Um, but that data and the research that is done is done to promote healthy outcomes for animals, and so I I want to trust the intention there.

Um, and I think this is a great way for us to have this conversation.

Um I totally see that there are people that are not gonna want to come to Front Street if they know that the perception there, uh, or if they think the perception of that shelter is that there's a lot of euthanasia.

Like some people just cannot handle that.

Um, and then there's other people, probably a lot of us that are more drawn to a place like that because we want to do more and have a bigger impact.

Um maybe there's little baby steps that we could consider.

So to not deter anyone from coming on site, maybe the we start with just an on-site thing, like the kennel sign idea.

That's not gonna deter people from arriving because they've already arrived, and maybe we have a little underdog paw print that's just um denoting an animal that maybe stands less of a chance of being adopted.

Um, and then just one other note is um I've seen discussion um from some of the the experts in the field that one tactic that can help the at-risk dogs is identifying those candidates early on in their process.

So, like right at intake, there are certain demographics of animals that are just gonna have a harder time, like uh the very young large breed male dogs tend to have a harder time.

So maybe those guys get labeled as an underdog before they're urgent, um, and maybe that affords them more of an opportunity.

So just a couple of thoughts.

Thank you.

Uh Commissioner Morse.

Thank you.

Uh thank you, Ryan, for the information that you provided.

I agree with um Commissioner Um Christie that it's helpful to have the detail.

I'm gonna separate a couple of questions.

One is just this table.

I got a little confused by the table.

And part of my confusion was um, so for example, a third column evidence that would be helpful to evaluate cons, a small scale study, and then the very far evidence to evaluate pros, a small scale study.

Are you proposing doing a study, or is there a study?

What I meant there is that we're sort of there's a lot of kind of predictions that we're making, right?

Like I have a lot of fears, right?

That may not that that there isn't currently that I'm aware of data to you know, uh support or refute, right?

So for example, if there was a shelter and it was a well-designed study, and in the pros there, so it can motivate someone to choose a dog that is in risk at risk instead of another dog.

Um, so if there was a shelter that had a certain program that was using a certain method, and basically every time a dog got adopted and they said, hey, did this dog get adopted because of this kennel sign?

And they said, look, we we've put signs this year we put signs on a hundred dogs, 30 of them, the adopters said they adopted because of this sign.

I would be all over that.

Again, I'm sorry, are you proposing a study or is there a study?

There is not uh there's not study, so it would be helpful you're proposing a study.

Would be helpful if it existed if someone could find one, or if perhaps you know, we could design our own in some way, or perhaps if you guys wanted to uh create some sort of project working with another shelter to collect that sort of data.

Um essentially there's we have blind spots where we need more information to to really know if these pros and cons are even are even real or justified.

So what I think I'm hearing is that there aren't specific studies that tell us whether this is a positive or not a positive.

What we have is a study that says half of people avoid going to a shelter because they're they don't want to be made sad or they don't want to hear distressing info.

Right.

So there's not really a study to support one or the other.

So we could potentially test something, maybe I like the underdog idea, or I know Commissioner Hayes has had a couple conversations with the folks at Bradshaw about their program.

I mean, it maybe we could do a modified Bradshaw type method, or do some sort of our own study with the underdog idea.

Um is that um is would that be helpful to the world of animal care if we actually did a study of some sort?

Yeah, I I think that would be that would be great.

I mean, I can't you know commit it this time.

I would need to talk to you know my staff about it, but I am interested in like I say, like everyone at the shelter, including myself wants to save the most lives possible.

That's why we're in this very difficult work.

And so um we have these concerns, but we need we really need, you know, I recognize that you know my opinions, uh there's a lot of like anecdotal evidence on here, right?

Stronger evidence would help us make a more uh more informed decision, right?

If if I know, hey, we can there's there's evidence that says, hey, if we do this, we're gonna get these benefits, and and you know what, there actually aren't these risks that we had fear.

We we have this actually isn't gonna harm animals the way that we feared that it would.

I'm all about it.

So that's the point of this column is is saying, hey, this would be really helpful information for us to have to see if you know these pros are truly pros and if these cons are truly cons, just so we get more in touch with with reality.

So just what I'm hearing is uh the shelter may be open to say a couple commissioners on a project, designing a let's start off with just designing a something to go on the kennels and start collecting data of how successful that is.

Just laying it out there that it could be a potential project for people.

Wait, wow.

Umisher Hayes.

Um, yeah, thanks, Ryan, for all the information.

Um, I know I've talked about this sort of thing for a little bit now, and I've met with you and um to talk about this.

So is one question so is your hindrance to even moving forward with something like this just that piece of data you want to know when you met with the Bradshaw folks, if you know people are adopting or rescues are pulling animals because of the final plea.

You want to know when you met with the Bradshaw folks, if you know, people are adopting or rescues are pulling animals because of the final plea.

Was that your one like roadblock to kind of seeing the effectiveness of it?

Um, yeah.

Yeah, I think um one is one is the uh the upside side of it, and one is the downside side of it.

So it would be really helpful to see okay, we're doing this, these um we're doing these methods and they're working, and we were it's not just correlation, it's like we know that they're working.

Um, but also we also know that they're not causing these other downsides, right?

Because I could see a situation where uh maybe this maybe they they do you know 30 dogs and um you know five of those get adopted because of the method, we would I would still have some concerns that that method, you know, that's five dogs adopted.

That's amazing.

I would still have some concerns that depending on the frequency and the way that the wording is done, that it could um perhaps uh reduce effectiveness of our adoption events, which save dozens of dogs, you know what I mean?

So I'm trying to it's it's balancing the risks and really trying to figure out what methodology is gonna lead to the most animals helped uh with all things considered, but that would be extremely helpful.

And did you hear when you were meeting with the Bradshaw folks that this has hurt their adoption rates or that this has created downfalls?

I haven't asked that.

I I didn't ask that.

Um I'm sure they would if they were you know blatantly aware of it.

The hard part is it's really hard to kind of prove a negative in a sense, like it's hard to say um, you know, uh unless it was like a massive drop or something like that.

Um so we'd have to kind of figure out it would have to be well designed for us to figure out what what the criteria is for is it hurting adoptions or not.

Um but it it's that's a it's a hard kind of experiment to to formulate.

So it might need more discussion on that.

Okay.

Um I I did engage with Sarah from Bradshaw and Annette a little bit, and they did not point out downsides.

They did not immediately say adoptions have dropped or this these posts have hurt dogs, or in fact their adoptions have gone up and the posts in the social media and the response to their social media has stayed the same.

Um you guys use very social media very well.

Um a lot of your volunteers use it very well, social uh people who foster use it very well.

Um, and we wouldn't be posting any dogs on social media if there was no response to that, then it would be no point unless to just show off your cute animal.

Um I'm very interested in doing a pilot program.

I know your resources are burdened and uh short in some regard, but to to not even attempt to do something without because we we will we will I will make a commitment to find the evidence and the results from what's happening at Bradshaw to relieve you of of some of your your tasks.

Um if there's not even attempt to try something, whether that be something on the kennel door, although maybe just me being a younger person, social media is where I see a lot of response with animals in general getting getting rescued or pulled or adopted.

Um then we kind of hit the end of the road if we're not even gonna try let's say a pilot program.

Um to even use maybe we can model the language that Bradshaw is using because it is non-abrasive, it is not sad, it is a very much like final plea, they don't even use the word euthanasia.

They've never once said the word euthanasia on their posts.

I've looked at every single one that they've posted.

So um it's it's a they walk a very fine line without deterring people away from their shelter.

And you could argue desensitization desensitization all you want, but lack of awareness is worse.

Um and being closed off to the to the even um knowledge that there's a dog out there that has you know one more day to go or one more week to go, because all they say is final plea needs to be pulled by three seventeen or two five.

Um so a pilot program, even trying this for a month or two months to just maybe once a week you post a dog.

Um that is something that I'm I'm very much in favor of.

I don't know what anyone else has to say about that.

I think that's reasonable.

That's something that um my um our uh public information coordinator or coordinator and I discussed that you know, even if it's something short term, you know, it's unlikely that anything catastrophic or or un you know um irreversible is gonna happen, you know, if it's over short term.

Um, and so uh yeah, it's something that we're open to.

We need to have more discussion with staff to kind of talk about that language and what that would look like.

But if we do the pilot program, then a couple of us or I would be more than willing to help look at the effectiveness of that, although I do not work at the shelter, um, analyzing those results of a pilot program to then see how do we move forward.

Anything catastrophic or or un you know um irreversible is gonna happen you know if it's over short term um and so uh yeah it's something that we're open to we need to have more discussion with staff to kind of talk about that language and what that would look like but because if we do the pilot program then a couple of us or I would be more than willing to help look at the effectiveness of that although I do not work at the shelter um analyzing those results of a pilot program to then see how do we move forward right yeah and I think that would be best I mean I think um when it comes to like this research obviously we all have all of us probably have some preconceived idea of what we might you know expect to see so there is potentially a little bit of researcher bias there but I think if we you know collaborate on it and we were to you know kind of come up with how the language how people would be asked about this for example like we were very careful in how we asked to not leave the question for example when we did our study um I think that could be good so I would welcome that um you know that partnership if we're able to create some sort of pilot like that yeah commissioner asquith um I am new to obviously it's my first meeting so I have a couple of questions first and then I'd like to make some comments um does the shelter does front street have a list of rescue groups that they um traditionally contact when animals are at risk and if so how many uh how many of those rescues are feline and canine and um are they regularly contacted when animals are at risk and then I have one more question.

Yeah I mean we have a we have a um a rescue uh you know list of rescues that we work with and we have um a regular uh rescue email that goes out um that may be varying off of um off of the discussion item a bit um but the basic answer yes animals at risk so that's related to animals at risk and how many are on the list uh I'm not aware of how many are on the list right now okay um that would be good information both felines and canines because I'm a cat person as well um and then does the does front street utilize transports um again this is recognizing uh animals at risk or final plea um for animals to be moved to other parts of the country from Front Street that um have fewer animals yes we've made many many a road trip up to Oregon Humane uh in the last year um we've done you know flights over the years we've had uh we work with you know places in the Bay Area that'll come and pull animals but yeah we've done transports you know how many have been done in the last 12 months how many transports uh I don't have that data handy okay so um part of my past experience um I was the shelter manager at um I worked for animal care and control for two years from 2017 to 2019 I was the manager of the Downey Animal Shelter.

Los Angeles County is the largest animal shelter in the country um and they have seven shelters and it's geographically a very very big area.

When I was there I started and we managed and led a program called um we called it length of stay and it was a length of stay meeting that we um had every Friday and that length of stay meeting um had shelter leadership either myself or my second in command a veterinarian one of our two vets um behavior um uh rest the rescue uh foster coordinator and both field leadership and kennel leadership and we met every Friday and we talked about our our guys that had been there for a while and whatever the time frame was and what we were doing for each one of those animals and we were looking at making plans for each one of those animals based on behavior based on medical based on the kennel experience based on the rescue and foster opportunities.

So we worked collaboratively every Friday and said what about this what about that how about this I you know um you know the etc etc um and that was not only successful for us to look at the best outcomes but it was also an opportunity for leadership and for kennel staff to collaborate and work together as a team and then we reached out to foster's adoption partners is what we call them our adoption partners um at LA County.

So that was um successful um in bringing down I have some stats bringing down days in kennel bringing up live release rates and us working together as a team we enlisted help of volunteers and things like that and so forth.

So um the um and similar to the flea um process from Bradshaw so um we would we obviously and the reason we had field staff there we obviously would not be placing dogs that had bad behavior into poor homes so the dogs that might need a little bit more work the cats that might be sick always went to the rescue groups because they are the ones that know how to handle those those animals.

So what we found um we did final pleas and we had the this they're still using this basic process today because I was on I was on the social media earlier today with um watching um the rescue coordinator who was there when I was there and I just saw her she got you know six dogs six old dogs out to frosted faces and they were all had their videos when they were leaving and I had to text her and she's like I miss you anyway I I'm getting off off topic but um I guess what I'm I'm I'm offering is to maybe think in those terms and I am still in contact with my LA County folks my predecessor is still there um they are still using this type of of holistic process and so I would be willing to um be part of a team that maybe looked at something like this um tried something like this and I'll leave you with um as the manager

But um I guess what I'm I'm I'm offering is to maybe think in those terms, and I am still in contact with my LA County folks.

My predecessor is still there.

Um they are still using this type of of holistic process, and so I would be willing to be part of a team that maybe looked at something like this, um, tried something like this, and I'll leave you with um as the manager.

Um I also had to sit in the big chair, and so when people came and said, XYZ, this dog, why was this dog euthanized?

What happened to this dog?

Well, we we as a team knew what we we knew we had worked through all the options, and if I had to say it was because of this, or it was because of that, I had to do that, or one of my other leadership team had to do that.

But we you have to stand behind every single one of your euthanasias as as a manager as a leader, and it just it has it, it it's part of being in sheltering, and it it's a the part that's a bummer.

But I've also been on the other side, and I remember when I was volunteering at Bradshaw way back in the day, and I left one night and I wanted that kitten.

I really wanted that kitten, and I didn't tell Celeste, and then the next day I called her and she said it's too late.

And had I maybe known that that cat had been on a final plea list, and and I think members of the public may be feeling the same way, but there's a certain sense I think of transparency, and there's an opportunity to call in the community and say, Yes, this happened, but we need your help.

Can you become a volunteer?

Can you be can you can you sign up with this rescue?

Can you help us transport?

Can you do XY?

Can you come and do laundry?

That that brings them into the fold and and can make them part of the team to solve the problem.

So that is I I would I would reach out to LA County, I will discuss with shelter staff.

I any of those types of things, um, I'm happy to do.

I'd appreciate that.

It sounds um very similar to something we do called uh shelter rounds, which is which is a very similar um process of evaluation and and uh a team's channel that includes you know all staff to be able to chime in, and there's there's many layers of approval when it comes to that.

So um, but I would be very interested if you would want to kind of either write up kind of how it was done when you were there or how it currently is done, um, because maybe there's something that someone else is doing that we can implement that would you know make us that a little bit better.

So yeah, I'd appreciate that.

Commissioner Benedict.

Yes, thank you, Ryan, for the report.

And um, I just want to say that I think that uh Commissioner Asquith has some really good ideas there uh from her experience.

Um I would love to see that implemented where um it's a collaborative type thing with the rescues and me as a rescue, you know, I do get these these lists from even though I'm not we're not technically a rescue, we're more of a transport, we do get the lists, and um not all of them say that not of them have a deadline, so that's another way that you can just say, or they don't say euthanasia, it just says deadline.

So for the general public, um it's not that scary if there's a deadline as opposed to youth date, right?

That's one way to mitigate also, Commissioner Hayes, uh or um yes, Hayes.

Uh I think uh I would be happy to join you and trying to do something there for the final plea.

I think it's good.

And also um, Ryan, I think that you know, since you have such a great um social media presence, um, and you said that you don't think you get a lot from that, um, but what you probably cannot quantify is are the shares.

Um, you know, because you put it on there and maybe somebody sees it, but how many times have they shared it?

And that's pretty hard to quantify.

Um, so I mean, I think that by implementing something like that, or just saying that we shouldn't do it, um, probably doesn't serve the animals best.

Um, but I'm really um excited that you're willing to consider putting the um just on the kennel kennel signs, um, and we can make make signs that are not real um scary, you know, for the public.

Um but I think that most people they know um that the shelter that these animals at risk are you know they are going to either be adopted or to rescue, and they know that that uh they may end up being euthanized.

Um so uh oh, and then and about also I wanted to comment about the certain dogs that you know you would you don't want them to go to people.

Well, you do a vetting beforehand, right?

So you would not send at-risk dogs that are dangerous to the general public, those would go to rescue, right?

So those are already kind of off the table.

We're talking about adoptable friendlies that you know are really deserve a chance at life, right?

And I think this all comes back, if I have to say if I best say, um, to SOPs.

You know, if there was like for the final plea, if we had SOPs in place and adopted some SOPs, and maybe we you know, we can get together and put some of this together for the final plea and uh you know a bunch of other things as well.

Um, but it you know, SOPs would really help this process.

So they kind of go together.

Yeah, I yeah, no, I think there's there's some good points there, and uh something I'd be interested in, and again, I'm I can't make any promises to what we're going to do.

Um, you know, it's again, I'm not the only decision maker at the shelter, right?

I have to consider um all staff and taking the expertise of other other staff members.

But um, you know, some of you have kind of phrased things in certain ways that um you know I haven't quite thought of before.

I think you know, sh as shelters we're sort of used to the sort of um what sticks in our minds is sort of the extremes of how this messaging has been done in in the past.

Um but what would be helpful is um as you think of language or different ways to to say these things or put these things or how the posts would be, feel free to send me um send me drafts, send me some of your language, send me what you think would kind of uh convey the right things without you know, how can we hit the sweet spot of um conveying the urgency, especially, you know, one thing Bradshaw pointed out is that in many ways, you know, these are almost the best function of these as tools for networkers, right?

So, how can we phrase things in a way that you know cues the right people and kind of gets the job done without sort of turning off that untapped, you know, 50% of people who haven't adopted and the the reason being they're afraid of euthanasia and sadness.

How can we how can we tow that line to get the best of both worlds?

So feel free to um I think you all have my email at this point, so feel free to send me emails with your thoughts on on language.

Commissioner Garcia.

Thanks, Ryan.

Um I'm glad we're having this discussion.

I mean, look at in the just the last half hour, some of the good ideas that have been kind of rallied back and forth here, and I know we've talked about it for a while, and I too agree the language and the terminology doesn't have to be final plea or last day or or any of that.

It can be a little more modified, a little bit easier to take than some of the harsher things, which I think final plea sounds a little harsh to me.

Um also um, like you said, evaluating some of those dogs that come in that you know from the beginning are gonna be hard to place, the seniors, maybe the bigger dogs, um, maybe looking into something that's more modified around them.

Um I've also thought of different things for seniors like senior to senior programs.

So maybe we don't run into that backlog of older dogs there that end up being at risk at a later date.

Um, so I think the conversation is good, and I think there's a lot of good ideas taking like small steps doing one thing and seeing how that goes.

Um we've seen multiple ways of doing this from different shelters and stuff.

Um, you know, like I said, you know, it could be you know the old timers, the old time crew, or or something, something that makes it a little more appealing to um folks coming in, like some folks come in and think they want a puppy and end up going out with uh you know 14-year-old dog.

So um just some things to think about and and work around with that as well.

Yeah, I appreciate that, and I agree about the discussion.

And I just I just want to like say that um, you know, I know we've kind of had a rough start this year, both procedurally and and and conversationally, but I really do see a lot of value in this forum and in community advocates and in you know, criticism and and um negative feedback when when done in a constructive way.

And um, you know, I gotta say, you know, I'm I've a lot of work, my head's kind of in the sand, just trying to keep my team afloat and my areas afloat.

Um I don't always have the bandwidth to be like, let me see what this other shelter is doing, or or what are these other ideas?

And I'm I come from a marketing background.

You all come from a wide range of other backgrounds, experiences, talents, and so that excites me for two reasons.

One is it's like I'm hearing things that um, you know, fresh perspectives that I don't tend to hear from uh you know shelters.

We can get very like in any like in this any industry, you kind of get entrenched in in your patterns.

So having this outside fresh perspective um is really valuable.

Um also, you know, like I said, you know, your talents, your experience, uh there's so many things that I would love to do if I had time.

I've always said I would love to go on like a six month, would it be like a sabbatical, like a work break to just go to all the best performing shelters in the in the country and just spend a month at each one just learning everything about what they do?

There's so much that I'd like to do that I don't necessarily have the ability to do.

Um, and so um that's where you know this commission is valuable to me, and especially that some of you are interested in in collaborating and working on projects that we may not have the time to do is also exciting.

So I just want to put out put that out there that I'm optimistic about um about the commission about the relationship.

So thank you for those comments.

And I know the chair and I had talked about there is sort of two different topics here.

There's sort of like the um sort of euthanasia marketing final plea, and there's sort of promoting senior animals.

So we didn't really announce it, but I think we were talking about starting with kind of the the euthanasia-based sort of marketing and then kind of focusing specifically on seniors.

I don't want to leave that out.

I know you've been waiting a long time for that.

So um, yeah, let's be sure to come back to that.

Uh Commissioner Morris.

Um, just to try to put some concrete structure on the table for some thought and a bit to Commissioner Virga's idea about eventually are we gonna actually have something to look at and support or not support.

I'm not gonna use the word vote on, but support.

It seems like uh there's some people on the dais who have interest and have engaged in discussion.

There could be, and I think the term is a work group that uh at the moment I'm looking at Commissioner Hayes, Commissioner McDoll, Commissioner Asquith, and possibly myself, because we can't have more than four, but I'm not sure about that number uh in terms of not getting to a quorum.

Orum is seven.

She can't do it because that would like I think there's some rules about what the chair can or can't do, but if a couple of us quote unquote want to get together for coffee, so to speak, um, to put some structure of a I'm just gonna call it the underdog program and something else.

But I hear Ryan saying we'll send him messages, but I think this group would like to do something a bit more clear of what we're talking about, and and maybe design a pilot in in collaboration with you and your team, and that pilot might be something that is for example, a six-month pilot that we do things like come up with a kennel sign.

We I'm still sort of leaning on the signage in the front waiting area that says, you know, these dogs are underdogs or something.

Um look at the ideas that um Shannon had brought up at such a so um I'm asking, I'm just putting it out there that a couple of us could quote unquote have coffee and um sort of design a pilot based on some of the I know Commissioner Hayes and I have talked about this uh in terms of what Bradshaw's doing, and Commissioner Asquith's good experience, so that we could bring to the next commission meeting sort of a pilot proposal.

The background on this is some of the stuff we did on the wait while survey, and in fact, I'm wondering about adding the wait while survey.

I think that's the right term, wait while uh that we could add another question to that.

Did you adopt this dog because it was an underdog or something like that?

So we could get a little more info about whether this idea has legs.

Um so I'm hoping we can maybe do something a little concrete where we have a few people who put their heads together with the team and and come up with a pilot proposal.

Okay.

Uh Commissioner Verga.

So Ryan, can you tell us what what problems you had with Bradshaw's final plea program?

Uh no problems specifically other than the ones that are that are mentioned in this in this chart here.

So there's there's not specific programs.

The the problem is the language used, I think um may need to be tweaked somewhat for our for our comfort level.

Um, but the um, you know, the main thing is that there is not currently evidence that's that like hard evidence is saying that these dogs that we put out with this type of messaging are getting adopted or rescued because of this method that they wouldn't have otherwise, right?

So we want to make sure because we we did a similar study, and we we talked about this when we met a couple years ago, um, where just a general are more general social media promotions of individual dogs had um a pretty low efficacy rate.

Now that could change with with the language change.

That's that's possible, and I think that's what we would be very interested in in measuring.

Um, but so one of my I guess issues, not with Bradshaw's program, but just this method in general is that um we have some fears about the risks, uh but we're also we also don't have solid evidence that there's gonna be a reward, right?

So it's balancing those two things.

It's it's hey, you know, if this is if this is you know really gonna get animals out that wouldn't have otherwise, then maybe it's it's maybe it's worth some of our adoption events being having less traction.

Maybe maybe if even if there are those cons, um, you know, maybe that's worthwhile because it's it's working.

Um and then on the other end, it's it's figuring out like is this type of messaging, you know, reducing visitations or reducing adoptions or making adoption events less effective.

So we just don't have like concrete evidence on either side that informs us.

Well, it sounds to me like though Bradshot did indicate that they had very positive results from this.

They said that every dog that they had, I don't know if it's every single dog, but it was close to every dog that had been in the final plea program had been adopted.

However, when we did our social media study of the 37 medium like difficulty and hard to adopt dogs, all of those dogs also got adopted, even though only one of them was adopted because of the post.

So it's it is a sort of a correlation versus causation.

So they're saying it's correlation.

I would love to have data that says no, this is this is causing this effect, and it's worth the potential risks.

Okay, I've just got a couple more questions.

So obviously, not all the animals um that are euthanized are on your rescue list, correct?

Uh correct.

Okay, so there's 1,823 animals that were killed at the that lost their lives at the shelter for a number of different reasons.

Um and I guess one of the things that I know that happens a lot, and I've heard this from a lot of different people, and I think you made reference to it, and as so did you, Shannon, is lack of awareness is worse than not knowing at all, and to go back in that next day and have your heart broken because that little kitten that you could have saved if you would have known what was going on, lost its life.

And um I think especially at Front Street, I can tell you this.

Um that most of the animals that are dying when we look at public records requests are not those that are on the rescue list.

And again, my question, and I think Shannon asked you too, is there even a rescue list that's going out for Phelanes now?

So thank you for bringing that up.

I did want to point out because I know this came up earlier on the follow-up log, um, for the cat, you know, euthanasia lists or rescue lists.

It says this item will be addressed in the FAQ for rescue-related questions described below.

Below it says staff will provide the commission with a rescue process overview or FAQ for rescue-related questions via BCC email.

So that's um something that I'm currently working on.

So that'll uh it is it isn't just a simple answer, so I want to make sure that one, it's thorough, it's accurate, it's in writing, so that you're able to reference back to it.

Well, I'm just gonna tell you that I know numerous cat rescues that were getting your rescue list that are no longer getting it and have told me that it's no longer going out.

So I think a yes or no wouldn't be that complicated either.

Um, and I guess the other thing is, you know, I think as Shannon pointed out, and I so agree, is for staff to know that everything was done that could possibly done be done to save an animal before a healthy adoptable animal is killed, is immeasurably better for any staff who care about animals, and I know that most of your staff do really care about animals and want to make sure that they're not dying unnecessarily.

And I think on top of that, you know, just to talk about the cost of euthanasia, you know, the the staffing cost, the euthanasia drugs, the rendering of the body, um, all those different costs, there is definitely cost benefit to saving a life than to euthanizing an animal.

And then I I have a question for um uh Mr.

Jasso, because I know Ryan just got done saying something important.

I think he he said no promises, and it seems like we're pleading with Ryan to get him to agree to do what many other shelters do as a matter of course, okay.

The final plea, like Bradshaw does it, you know, voluntarily, and a lot of shelters do it voluntarily.

Is it required that when we have all this discussion and we make you know a kind of a consensus decision or discussion that Front Street agree with it because ultimately what this is about is sending it to the mayor and city council to decide.

And I would imagine at that point, Front Street could weigh in.

We could weigh in further if we wanted to.

Isn't that what this is about?

Let them let our city leaders decide.

Well, in this particular instance, I was gonna say that actually won't be necessary.

I just leaned over to the chair to say that I hear a consensus conversation going on that uh including an agreement by the shelter that uh doing a pilot, certainly for physical signage, um, but also probably for sort of for some form of virtual signage, seems like something doable and making sense, and and uh and so I can give you our commitment that you know I want to ask uh the staff of Front Street to work with a small body of this body to kind of see what that looks like in terms of that.

So I was gonna wait till the end um simply because I wanted to make sure I heard everyone's comments, but since you asked, I brought it up now.

Thank you.

And just for point of clarification, uh I clarified that a subcommittee or ad hoc committee is created under Commissioner Comments and not during this discussion.

So uh and uh I know by the way, Commissioner Hayes will be leaving early, but I was going to at that point ask that she chair the subcommittee on this uh only because she's leaving.

It's an option, because she won't be here to say whether or not she would be willing to participate.

So just a point of order question.

Um it's my understanding that if it's a formal ad hoc committee, then that it has very strict rules tied to it and a final report due, etc.

etc.

If it's an informal work group, not appointed by the chair, it can happen a bit more quickly and somewhat organically.

Uh which I remember hearing in a presentation among city council members, uh, not commissioned per se, but uh so there's a difference between an informal work group and an ad hoc committee.

And so I can jump in.

That's correct.

Um ad hoc would be for a limited time with a limited purpose, for example, creating a proposal for a pilot program uh to be discussed, which is different than as you mentioned, a couple of you getting coffee.

Coffee meeting, which could be more expeditious and work with the team, the staff, as opposed to a formal report that then has to be produced of an ad hoc committee, just a point of order.

Well, it just depends on how uh much invested these commissioners are on whether or not you want to do the bigger work or make it uh very informal.

So um I'd be more than happy to chair.

It seems like an ad hoc committee would be more uh I don't know, it'd be more right for this type of situation, but I I could be I could be wrong.

But I'd be more than happy to lead the process and come up with in collaboration.

We can you know model it off of Bradshaw, use your um expertise, Shannon, and come up with something and then bring it back and also collaborate with you, Ryan.

So we can discuss under Commissioner Comments the actual formation of it.

So but moving on to next speaker, uh Commissioner Asquith.

Uh I would like to uh share a very successful social media presence um that is doing amazing things for the Lancaster Shelter for Los Angeles County.

Um that is Rita underscore underscore Earl underscore Blackwell.

Rita has almost a hundred and thirty thousand followers.

She's a professional photographer, she's also a um a trusted volunteer, so no paid staff are having to um support any of the networking um final plea work that she's doing.

And um the type of final plea work that she does is not oh my gosh, come get this animal or it's gonna die tomorrow.

It there's there's a there's a variety of methods and and ways that she's attracting um folks from all over the state, um, all over the country too, to come to Lancaster, which is one of the most highest euthanasia rates in uh the state.

So, and also somebody was talking about shares.

Um, she's got anywhere from a thousand shares to 200 shares to on many of her posts.

So, this could be an example of a way that we could take advantage of successful networking for those final plea animals without impacting staff by engaging again the volunteers there at my heart, um, engaging um trusted volunteers to work at that level.

The volunteers there at my heart, engaging trusted volunteers to work at that level.

That's great.

Just before uh Commissioner Hayes leaves, I wanted to also say, because it kind of relates to this discussion.

Um that so probably six months ago we met.

I know so Commissioner Hayes was a uh a big uh proponent of of TikTok, which again we weigh everything with pros and cons.

Our our concern with TikTok was um that you know it's great for getting a lot of likes, but we felt like it wasn't very locally based, which is what kind of the strength of Facebook and Instagram to you know um share with friends and family to get people like physically in the shelter.

Um and our content at the time, like our video content was very much landscape focused, so it would have required sort of taking on a whole new platform and changing our our um our uh kind of uh process and making a whole new platform and maybe diluting our work from like Facebook and Instagram, which we know work well for us.

Um so that was kind of the con of TikTok.

But you know, um our uh public information coordinator came to me and said, you know what, I think now might be the time because you know um she's kind of changed all of our video formats to vertical anyway, a lot of it would translate very well.

Um so we are um gonna commit to uh kind of a pilot TikTok program as well.

Um and thank you for sharing uh uh many examples of shelters using it uh successfully.

Um so we're gonna you know, not in vet, we're gonna kind of um replicate content there for the most part, um, but uh and kind of see what kind of traction we get.

I want to do some experimenting with adoption events only promoted on TikTok to see if we do get that local audience and then continue to invest more time and more specialized time into it as we start to see results.

I just wanted to uh thank you for that, and uh you know we're gonna be starting that very soon.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

Um that's funny.

You're getting off TikTok.

I've been five months without it.

So for you.

Um yeah, that's exciting.

I'm happy to happy to hear that and excited to see the results of that.

So yeah, thanks.

Um coming back to the volunteer, yeah.

We can definitely, I wrote down You said it was Rita underscore Earl underscore blackwell, right?

Okay, so yeah, I can look into that.

Um we do have um, you know, a team of volunteers who does um you know creates content on their own, they make some really good stuff.

We have also looked when we met with Bradshaw, they mentioned they have a separate um kind of volunteer group that posts um those dogs, and um that that might be an even better, not to say we wouldn't post it on our main page, but that might be an even better forum if rescues are um trying to you know specifically look for those dogs, maybe a slightly different audience, but to make it easy for that to happen, and we have been talking about you know, kind of organizing these volunteers a bit more and kind of creating a volunteer group, it would be a big lift for sure to kind of oversee and make sure that you know the messaging is is cohesive and all that, but um, that is something we're talking about as well.

So I don't know, um sounds like kind of similar along the lines of what you were saying.

Um if we wanted to actually get statistics, research, she's been doing this for years, the seven, eight years.

And um, if we wanted to maybe um tap into her expertise, I know Lancaster is a long ways away, but if maybe we could jump online and she could share some of her tips and tricks.

Right, it's a great connection.

Commissioner Bagley.

Um, Ryan, don't take this wrong, but I want to make sure we don't get too clinical about the proof of correlation.

Okay, I know you're a numbers person and you're have a background in marketing.

I think that the ethusiasm from Bradshaw is based on the fact that from January 2025, they had 139 dogs that they marketed in this way.

Um, and 130 went out the door.

And I think the athusiasm comes from just a reasonable presumption because those dogs were in the kennels for weeks with no interest whatsoever from anyone, and then suddenly they put it on urgence, and someone came in and wanted the dog or a rescue wanted to pull it.

So I want to make sure that I know I, for one, don't need a lot of proof proof of correlation.

I think in a perfect world, we'd be able to ask everyone and solicit everyone after they've adopted one of these final plea dogs.

But if we get into the weeds of it, it seems to me it's a pretty reasonable presumption when they've been in the kennels for weeks, and all of a sudden they're out the door, okay.

Um also back, I just let me cover this.

I do think this is gonna require a vote, Chair.

I mean, uh Commissioner Morris, and I'll tell you why.

Because we've had this, we've bantered it back and forth since August.

I think that was when it was first brought up.

The manager was absolutely adamant.

The manager was absolutely adamant he would oppose it, he'd bring in experts.

He didn't want any advertising, he didn't want any of the surgent please not.

He was adamant.

And then we've talked about it about it back and forth, but it's clear that the shelter has reservations as as you do, Brian.

Um historically, you said they were somewhat discouraging or uh uninclined to just jump into this.

Um for that reason, I think it's it's beyond a collaborative effort like um like the brochures were.

I think that this would require a vote.

If historically the shelter has been um disinclined to take this on, it will require a vote and a recommendation from city council is my thought on it.

Uh next is me.

Uh, first I want to uh thank Manager Jasso for the commitment uh from the city on trying to trying out a pilot.

Um really appreciate that that there's the thought to um start investing that way.

Um one thing I wasn't actually gonna suggest is you know to have a separate social media for rescues.

Uh personally I follow Rita.

I follow a lot of uh social media folks that are out there advertising the the animals that are most at risk that aren't, and probably not all the pages that I'm on are regular public.

Um I will say my last I don't know, five, six uh fosters were all from euthanasia lists, and putting it out there adds to that transparency on especially to to rescues or to your foster group of what animals are most at risk.

I will say um my last few are all down from the LA County where it's even a bigger disaster than up here.

Um and my uh current ones are uh one I brought up a pair of brothers out of uh Apple Valley that were put on the euthanasia list, Apple Valley and uh give you typically at least uh last year was giving you 24 hour notice, so I ended up uh selecting and pulling them.

I was watching um three husky puppies, and um because I pulled the two that I did, they euthanized the three huskies that same day, and they were not on the list.

So it's that transparency could have changed.

Did I take these three and try to find somebody to take these other two?

Um so that it does absolutely factor into um which dogs rescues pull, which dogs um people who are committed fosters may pull.

So having that transparency and and you know, by all means, if if we need to separate that social media and have just like a um urgent social media list uh versus the you know, just on the general face front street advertising to really push to to the uh rescues that we work with to push, you know.

Hopefully, there, you know, there front street has a whole list of fosters that um that you can kind of count on, especially when numbers get high that um marketing to them specifically making very clear these are the dogs most at risk.

Uh you know, I'm on the Front Street foster list, I get the emails that say, hey, we're we're high, the most recent one.

Um any dog over 40 pounds.

Well, I'm sure that the list of who is the most at risk to be euthanized is a little more specific than any dog over 40 pounds, but that is what the foster list came out the other day.

Might have been today.

Um so having that transparency, having the ability to really be able to make a uh more pointed choice of which animal you foster.

It can only help the dogs most at risk.

That's a really good perspective.

Uh Commissioner Benedict.

Yes, um, I want to uh also reiterate the transparency.

I think it's just so important as uh uh Chair McDowell said for every animal, you know, to have a chance and for the public to know what this animal is headed towards.

And um, you know, I think uh with uh what Commissioner Asquith said too, um, I want to you know reiterate Sue because you mentioned again that one out of 37 from your post was adopted, um, you know, because it you you know I I don't want you to get tied to that because you cannot quantify all the shares like with um Rita Blackwells, you know, she all of her shares are getting a lot of dogs adopted.

Um and with the transparency too, I think a lot of shelters um don't even well, what I would like to recommend one thing I'd like to recommend is to have a sign on the door.

I think a lot of people don't know that California has mostly kill shelters.

Um if we just had a sign when you walk in the door that says we are not a no-kill shelter.

Um again for transparency, um, so people do know um what these potential outcomes are for these dogs, you know.

I mean, everybody on this commission, I think everybody is an animal lover here, you know.

We're the animal well-being commission, and that's the number one thing is to to look out and have a voice for these animals, you know, and and if we don't advertise for them, um then we're not we're not doing them justice and we're not doing our jobs.

So yeah, and I think again, transparency.

Oh, absolutely.

Uh doing a time check.

Uh it is 7 27.

If uh we want to continue this discussion, we will need to vote.

Um yes, uh, if you you can do a voice vote on this if you'd like.

Yeah, if you want to explain to our sorry, Fisher Asquith.

Um, per the rules and procedures commission meetings go for two hours.

You can vote to extend uh one additional hour.

You don't have to talk the whole hour.

Um, but if you uh do then we can go until 8 30.

But you have to do it before 7 30.

And if we don't, then we end promptly at 7 30.

So is there a motion to extend?

Uh is there a second?

Second, all in favor?

Okay.

I didn't hear a lot of voices.

All in favor?

We're sleepy.

Aye, anyone opposed?

Any abstentions?

All right, thank you very much.

Okay, right.

I don't know.

Um lately I've I've learned that I'm kind of purposefully dehydrating myself before these meetings.

Everyone here seems to have an iron bladder, that must be one of the qualifications.

Um maybe we do want to put in a bathroom break at some point if it becomes too regular.

Although, again, we're gonna try to keep it to two hours going forward.

But um, so yeah, I just want to say, like, again, transparency is is you know a method for saving lives.

I think that's why you're advocating for, and there's different levels of transparency.

There's even more transparent that we could go more open into the realities of what goes on at the shelter.

I guess my my thought process is um if you felt if you knew that transparency would lead, you know, the level of transparency we're talking about would lead to fewer lives saved, would you still advocate for it?

Commissioner Verga.

Um, just a couple procedural things about um the final plea that I think um are important.

Um not all animals at Front Street oftentimes are available for the public to see, even though they may be um available for public adoption, they may be in a quarantine unit that maybe um mama and puppies, some you know, that they could be available for adoption, but they're not available to see.

And I know what some shelters use, and I think it's a really good idea, is they have a board in the uh entry area that in that and it could even be a QR code.

I mean, there's a lot of simple things that you could do to show every animal that is on the euthanasia list and a little bit about them because you've already got which ties me into my next thing, okay.

So you know, you have that area also is that chameleon, which is the software that all shelters use and that front street uses uses, can tie into 24-hour pet watch, it can tie in everything.

Um the website, you know, Front Street's website, um, and it's literally as simple as doing one program, you know, change in the program in the field, and then you just click that box, and that can be included, you know, any animals that are at risk of euthanasia can be included.

So that was just a procedural note that I had.

One thing I'll say about signs.

I mean, again, we'll we'll collaborate on on that, but something that you know, as a customer service manager and my team are routinely um facing is this this this reduction in people's ability and willingness to read.

Um we've tried so many different signs for so many different things, and it's you some of you may have experienced this in your industries.

It's like it was a sign, it was right there.

You were standing in front of the shelter for this 15 minutes you didn't see the sign.

So yeah, signage can be um you know a a uh a difficult thing to make work, but um again, it's uh that's why we can we can measure the progress, right?

Um so right there are no more speakers on this topic.

So I want to appreciate the very productive discussion.

It sounds like we um the later part we'll have an ad hoc committee forming out of this.

Um and I appreciate the city's commitment to um working uh with the commissioners and uh uh trial.

Um I don't know if there's any discussion or motion that needs to go to the uh city council, but I think uh at this point, I sounds like we were gonna work together on trying uh so you have our commitment to work together on figuring out a pilot that makes sense um and and observe it.

And I appreciate the comment about uh empirical evidence like definitive impairment may not be possible.

Um so and so um so the questions I asked in a more general way of the shelter and so on, is in the sense of do we have a sense that it's hurting, or do we have a sense that it's helping or kind of um and I think at the end of the day we are all concerned with trying to save as many animals as possible.

Um, an animal owner myself, and actually one of my animals is from Front Street, uh, my dogs.

Um so um uh you have our commitment to uh work on that as to I will leave it to the commission uh during uh kind of um uh discussion uh of items whether uh an ad hoc committee makes uh more sense versus um independent volunteers and I would defer to um uh our uh city attorney to uh maybe uh kind of as well as um our city clerk to find the the differences that may be possible in that kind of approach.

Commissioner Verga.

I just wanted to say um why it's so disappointing that we can't take a motion and take a vote, which is what we should be doing here, in my opinion, and differs from what the genocidity process should be.

Is that time is of the essence?

You know, time is of the essence for every one of these animals that are dying every day.

And I I then I hear that we're gonna have a pilot program and then we're gonna do a study and we're gonna think about this and we're gonna think about that.

Give me a break.

You know, this is just basic life-saving fundamental um things that can be done right now, today, tomorrow, to save lives.

And that's why I get so upset.

It's like what's so complicated about that.

You know, if you look at Bradshaw's numbers, it's like 100%, you know, life-saving.

And so Mr.

Jaslo, that's that's that's why we get upset.

That's what we want to emphasize here.

This needs to happen sooner than later, please.

I I uh just for clarity, I agree.

Uh, number one, I did not say we uh need a study, and I don't believe we do need a study, although as we go through this pilot, I think that it's still good to gather data as much as data is available as we move forward.

I think we are prepared uh to work with you know the members of the commission that are willing to work on this as soon as possible.

Um, whether the commission takes a vote uh kind of at a future meeting or not.

So I just want to be clear about that.

Thank you.

Yeah, I think what we've kind of talked about is is formulating some sort of a a pilot program quickly, but within the context of that pilot program, um tracking the data as we go.

But that's not to say that we couldn't get additional information from other shelters that would also help reinforce a certain methodology as being uh beneficial and and not possibly harmful.

Uh Commissioner Benedict.

Uh yeah, I I think that uh with or without a pilot program, we need to save animals' lives.

That's the that's just the bottom line.

Um so uh my concern is that we we won't have enough, or we won't be able to make a vote next time if we have to push this one more month.

Um I would like for next month to be able to uh make a motion and take a vote on signage website and final plea.

I want something that we can make a motion and take a vote on next month.

Can we um quantify that right now?

That we will do that next month.

I think in order to make a motion for something, there has to be specific language that's included in the staff report.

Is that right, Carson?

That's part of our barrier.

I think my under uh my understanding of um Commissioner Benedict's question, and you can let me know if I'm incorrect, is uh she's not requesting to take a motion on this item right now, but in is instead requesting that at the next meeting uh there be a motion and no further delay.

Was that my last question?

Uh well um that would be the maximum time to wait, but if we could just come up with some verbiage right now and make a motion and vote.

We've got 40 minutes.

Well, so you would be able to make a recommendation right now, but there would be no vote uh right now.

The earliest the vote would be would be at the next one, but you are free to come up with a consensus recommendation right now to give to staff who can then place it on it on an agenda item as we discussed earlier.

And how do we go about doing that?

Can continue the discussion, just uh and uh formulate um your ideas about what you would like to see.

Um if there's consensus, then the recommendation can be with respect to that singular policy or consensus.

If there's multiple ideas, then that can potentially be included as well.

Um, but you know, you are free to discuss and deliberate on what those ideas might look like.

Commissioner Bagley.

Well, I you know the phrase I hear all the time when I talk to other shelters, the phrase is no-brainer.

This is just something we should move forward on.

Now, the language that we would like, Ryan, would be language about kennel cards, kennel marketing.

I don't know if it's a red stripe that says urgent on it.

I don't know.

Um, but I think that some of the commissioners have some ideas on some language.

So that would be one aspect.

Leah Morris brought up a board when you walk in that might identify those animals, and that would be something we could explore the language of.

I'm sure we could informally finalize language and get it over to the shelter long before the next meeting so we could vote on this.

And then of course the rest is social media, which we are all able to contribute to and have ideas on.

So I mean, those are the three things, Ryan, to think about.

And if you need language from us, we will give it to you before the next meeting, if that's what you need.

I I do think you should take our contributions very seriously on this, though.

Yeah, I mean, I think the more the more uh brains we get working on on this, the better, right?

Different perspectives, different language.

The language I think we're talking about is specifically, would it be like a one or two sentences that you all would develop now?

So what I asked you to email me or to have the commission on is language that specifically would be posted, would be on a sign if we went that route, like that language.

I think the language we're talking about is we need we need like a uh a you know a sentence or two that's gonna go in the staff report that's available to the public before the next meeting that says the commission's recommendation is to implement these uh methods.

So I don't know if that would it be something like the commission uh recommends that the shelter utilize um a final plea program, kennel signage, and XYZ to promote um that there are at risk animals.

Okay, so we'll get that to you, but when's the cutoff for the agenda my sense is it needed to be developed tonight to in person to be put on next month's agenda?

The the agenda needs to be developed tonight?

The the recommendation that's gonna be motioned.

Yeah, I so I'm hearing a couple different ideas.

So I'm hearing that we formulate a recommendation tonight to give to staff.

Um I think that's what you're referring to.

But then I've also heard discussed the creation of an ad hoc committee.

My understanding was that the creation of the ad hoc committee would then be to provide specific recommendations on verbiage and uh specific strategies was uh maybe I misunderstood the purpose of the pro the advantage.

My understanding is that there's gonna be a recommendation um for a vote for a motion to vote for next month.

And in addition to that, an ad hoc will be uh created to start actually trying to map out and uh signage what it looks like, work with the the shelter um kind of the center the nitty-gritty things, but there is a request to work on putting together recommendation to go to city council.

Yes, so uh the recommendation that you could come up with tonight uh can be um a I think what you suggested uh could work.

Yes, so uh the recommendation that you could come up with tonight uh can be um a I think what you suggested uh could work, it could um you know also get a little bit more specific, uh, but it is the recommendation to city council to pursue specific policy goals, I believe uh is if I'm understanding kind of the thrust of the discussion correctly, and then the ad hoc committee would then work to create specific procedures, specific language, specific aspects of the program and recommendations on implementation, and then present those recommendations of the ad hoc committee at a later point to this commission.

Does that sound accurate?

Now the question is if the ad hoc committee is working creating signage, et cetera, does it need to come back to this committee before being trialed at the shelter, in which case then we won't make it a formal ad hoc committee.

Yes, sir.

So the ad hoc committee um doesn't work directly with staff, although they can work with other community members and organizations and on their own meeting schedule, um, and they also can't uh deliberate on the ad hoc committee's work with other commission members until they bring their final report back to uh the full commission.

So then an informal committee can work with the shelter staff.

Okay, so it's an informal committee that's wanted.

Yes, okay, just making sure.

Yes.

All right.

Uh Commissioner Morris.

Thank you.

Uh so uh one of the things I'm conscious of is that Commissioner Hayes is not here, and she accepted sort of pulling this together, so feels a little awkward to be putting it together without her present.

Uh it's a suggestion is that we let Commissioner Hayes pull her work group together and put language together on what a final plea slash underdog program could look like at the shelter, and that we could discuss and vote on that at the next meeting.

My caveat or question is it's a vote for us to say yes, we like it.

It's not a vote that says this has to go all the way up to city council, because that's weeks to get it on their agenda, yada yada.

That this is like point of order that you're talking about two totally separate things.

Uh what Commissioner Bagel and Commissioner Benedict um talked about is something that would go to City Council.

Yeah.

Committee, informal committee with uh Commissioner Hayes, that will be something that is discussed in the Commissioner comments and ideas.

So right now we're discussing whether or not there's a uh recommendation uh formulated to be voted on next week, or next sorry, next month uh to go to city council.

That's what the rec that's what the request was from Commissioner Bagna Bagley and Commissioner Benedict.

So the work group would bring forward the proposed work group is basically to start a pilot and work with the shelter staff to trial things, but the recommendation is something that would formally come out of this committee to city council.

That's seems like two paths uh that are awkward, but I'm sure we can learn how it can unfold.

Commissioner Burga?

I did want to say that I know Julia um has legislative language that she has put together on this and that she works for the legislature and that she writes legislation in her capacity at the Capitol, and I think she would be willing to as quickly as she is able to get something together and meet with whoever she needs to so that this can go wherever it needs to go so that it can be refined and figured out so that there can be a vote on it next month.

So the question comes to you folks.

Uh how formal does the recommendation have to be?

Does it have to be like legislative like that's implying or making the uh policy goal of creating kennel cards, kennel marketing, um social media would be that would that be enough for a vote for next month?

Yes, it does not have to be a specific drafted ordinance or anything of that nature, it can be recommending specific policy goals or guidelines, things of that nature.

Okay, so to summarize what our current discussions have been, uh this commission is looking at wanting a uh to make a recommendation to go to city council for policy goals regarding the creation of uh at-risk uh marketing, including things such things as kennel cards, kennel marketing, um uh in informational board identifying at risk dogs or at-risk animals and social media.

I'd say digital notification, maybe digital notification that could be because that implies websites and social media and a lot of different 24 hour pet watch and is that seem consistent with what's been discussed here.

All right, so that is going to be what we're looking for on the agenda next month as a recommendation to go to city council.

Anything further that we need to do on our part to make that happen.

No, you've made the recommendation.

So I think that works.

Yes.

All right, very good.

Ah moving on.

Uh animal care services monthly report.

Do we have any speakers?

Chair, uh, I did want to oh, I'm sorry, yes.

We did what want to discuss seniors, senior animals.

Um uh uh the chair brought up a great point in our meeting is that those two categories don't necessarily overlap.

So a senior animal uh may not be at any euthanasia risk, but it may have a harder time getting adopted than other animals, and the shelter environment in particular could be a uh an extra bad place for a senior pet.

So we thought it would be uh a good idea to maybe have a little bit of a side conversation about ideas.

Maybe maybe the ideas overlap somewhat with what we've talked about already.

Um but uh you know, marketing ideas for those senior animals specifically, if anyone has ideas, Commissioner Garcia.

Hey, I know we've talked about this for for quite a while.

There were um some volunteers that were kind of interested in in something like that.

Um we did a uh adoption event at a senior home oh five or six months ago, um, and where um a lot of the folks there have senior animals.

You can't, you know, it's a little hard for them to have puppies and kittens and things like that.

So that's where we're kind of thinking, hey, wouldn't it be cool to have like a senior to senior program?

You know, where you match um senior animals with senior citizens and or homes that just are interested in um adopting um a senior animal.

So I think we've kind of talked about this a little bit before, kind of starting some sort of program, maybe it could even be some sort of a volunteer run program.

You know, it seems like at first it might start outside of small, but just something to kind of play around with and see where we can can get with that.

But I really am interested in in that type of a program there.

Yeah, I love that idea.

The only challenge I see with um it may need to be limited to small dogs.

I don't know if in senior homes specifically they may have weight restrictions.

Um, I think even our small senior dogs, I think get get scooped up pretty quick, those small dogs, because especially because of the rental restrictions are quite popular, but um I think that'd be a great thing to try if anyone would want to take on that project to maybe okay, great.

We can coordinate, you know, with some of our volunteers or fosters, maybe just take three to start with or something, and or maybe we can turn it into a social media post as well, like acute, you know, seniors, media and seniors, and then maybe something will come of it.

And that could be cats and or dogs, you know.

So yeah.

Commissioner Asquith.

I'd like to suggest that I you did a great job um summarizing the um the recommendation that we're going to be making, but I'd like to ask that we uh put at-risk senior dogs as part of that conversation so that it's not limited to but inclusive of recognizing that seniors may be marketed differently, but um having the conversation for all including them in the at-risk.

Absolutely.

Commissioner Berga?

I love that idea because I think that is so hard for senior animals, cats and dogs to find homes.

And I guess I wonder is there not currently a program for senior animals with Front Street?

I mean, is that something we should maybe in an ad hoc committee be working on?

It sounds like uh yeah, I mean, there's it's they're sort of included with you know all the other programs, whether it's adoption specials or foster homes or um or whatnot, and you know, they have discounted fees, but there's not um you know, a special, you know, special things that we're doing specifically for seniors on the marketing front.

And one last question regarding social media.

Do you do Facebook buys?

Uh like ads or ads.

We have experimented with it before.

Um we've done it for adoption events and fundraise, and we've we've we've tried.

Um we haven't had a lot of success with it.

I have um, you know, I I kind of put the campaigns together.

I'm not an ads expert.

Um, we've always been able, or one of a few types of pages that can still get away with organic um uh posting without paying because everyone loves animals.

Um but there are some specific uh areas of interest that I'm interested in for Facebook ads, or a little bit off topic, but related to lost pets.

Um uh Commissioner Bartagon and I um met briefly a couple weeks ago.

He's very interested, he's done uh Facebook ads in his career career, so again, leveraging the talent.

Um with real estate, it works.

Yeah.

Um and so, and he his specific interest was um we had talked about marketing to our uh Spanish speaking communities.

I think that's a huge, huge area of potential for both return to owners and adoption.

So I'm really excited that he's gonna be kind of expressed interest in heading that out.

I don't want to commit him to anything, he's not he's not his chair, but uh expressed interest in heading up.

But yes, that's a possibility.

Yeah, the commissioners on seniors so um I will add seniors to the recommendation.

Um and uh then I will happily forward that to you guys after the meeting.

Right now, moving on to unless you had anything else, Ryan, before moving on to the manager report.

Um are there any speakers?

I do not have any speaker slips for this item, no.

All right, very good.

All right, uh presentation.

All right, this should be pretty quick.

Famous last words.

So I see it here.

There it is.

Okay.

There we go.

Um, that's not gonna work.

There we go.

I think I'm fighting the fact that I'm getting to the age where I need glasses and I'm resisting as long as I can, but I can't deny it anymore.

Um, so uh this is our first month looking backwards at statistics after a completed month.

So we are looking at February 2026.

Um so uh I I don't know that you want me to go through all of these numbers, um, but you know, just a general uh intake, 150 cats, uh 358 dogs.

Uh we're about to see that cat number go up significantly with this beautiful weather means beautiful kittens.

Um and uh total, let's see, what else would be?

So 80 cat adoptions, 173 dog adoptions.

Um, we do have transfer numbers.

So um this can be found on our website, so um I can make a note to send you some instructions for how to navigate our website stats.

Um you can play with all sorts of different years and months, and it's pretty cool.

Um so but it looks like we had uh no transfers for cats and 20 transfers for dogs, overall live release rate 87%, cat live release rate 75%, dog live release rate 92%.

Keep in mind this is factoring in our uh strepzo um uh outbreak where we um uh reduced our dog intake guidelines, so that's gonna play into that number for sure.

Um I also oops, that's not the right here.

We go, too many buttons.

Uh I also thought it'd be fun to just include a um you know a fun story from each month.

So I want to credit our uh amazing uh public information coordinator Andrea for this uh very um extensive pro-level uh Valentine's campaign.

So she created a you know sort of a Tinder, I don't know, um, you know, basically sort of swipe through post on um Instagram.

We did a post where we created all these Valentines and uh people could come and pick them up and and hand them out, and then um in uh coordination with our uh also amazing uh volunteer uh team, uh we kind of put on this um you're probably familiar with our dog doggy day out program, um, but we just did a special event for you know, if you don't have a date on Valentine's Day, uh we have we have something better for you.

So um a lot of dogs got out that day.

It was a nice special day, and this is uh a dog that was uh adopted from um from people taking the dog out that day.

Um let's see, updates for you.

Um of these okay, I mentioned TikTok.

Okay, I mentioned TikTok.

Okay.

Uh policies and procedures.

So we are moving through the process.

We um actually just had interviews today.

We we've selected we're down to two vendors.

We had interviews today with one, uh interviews on Friday with the other.

So next week uh we'll probably be moving to the next um steps of that.

Umager JASO, I'll pause here because I don't want to forget what you wanted to talk about, but I'm remembering it now.

So uh jump in.

Sure.

I just wanted to take the opportunity to um uh give you an update on the recruitment for uh animal care manager.

Um I believe that recruitment um went live uh yesterday or day before um uh and closes on April the 7th.

It is uh national recruitment being handled by Wendy Brown and Cor Corporated, which is a um firm that we use um one of several firms we use for unique recruitments, particularly for um up mid-upper and uh executive leadership management um at the city of Sacramento.

And um they're used actually extensively uh on the West Coast in general.

So uh uh I think we can share that link uh and all the information associated to everyone on the commission if we haven't already.

And um, we are hopeful that um lightning strikes and we are able to attract uh some really good candidates and uh ultimately select a very good candidate um to lead the show uh the uh the animal care operations.

So thank you.

Um other staffing updates.

Uh we have three animal control officers in backgrounds, one has uh sorry, one has passed backgrounds, and then there's three more in backgrounds.

Once those four, assuming they get through backgrounds come through, we will be fully staffed on the animal control side for the first time in a while.

Fully staffed doesn't mean fully trained, there's a huge training process as well.

My dream is fully staffed and fully trained one day.

Um we will also be recruiting soon for a dog foster coordinator.

Um if you would like to reach out to your networks about that.

Um I'm not sure when that's gonna post.

Um I have a customer service rep uh starting in a couple weeks, so my team will be fully staffed, which I'm super excited about.

And then we're actively recruiting for two animal care technicians, and I think we're doing interviews for uh registered vet tech if we haven't already done them.

Um I mentioned the TikTok.

The poll um uh Mr.

Vanderlin, I think we determined that the best way to do it would be in person, just to make sure there's no brown act issues, correct?

Yes.

Okay.

So definitely something we're interested in doing.

Um I had hoped to do that.

So I'm sort of um being asked to try to get these agenda items as in advance as possible to meet all the deadlines and get all the documents uploaded.

Um, and so I I'm really eager to do this.

Uh, I was kind of planning on doing it next meeting.

It seems like um this item um is is kind of urgent.

I know we have we have to vote on the or you have to vote on the uh the dog ordinance too.

So um we're we have a lot of things we want for the next agenda, so we're gonna have to um kind of uh kind of prioritize there.

Um I think I have a pretty good sense for the the highest priorities.

Um, but uh I'm hoping to get the poll so that we can again have like numbers behind that so I know for sure how everyone feels and what the priorities are.

Um and then the general uh kennel improvements.

Um I got an update today um that uh finalizing the contract for campus-wide kennel repair scope and prepping the construction contract to present to council for approval.

So it looks like we're the next step in in the kennel improvements, which is the the uh one of the big items is um supposed to be coming to council soon.

Um so that is the main update on that project.

I think that is all the updates I have for you.

Great.

Uh commissioners, Commissioner Morris.

Uh thanks for those updates.

I actually wanted to make a comment towards uh uh uh manager Jasso, uh which is I know that we you just described that there's um a recruitment to replace the city shelter manager, and you said the animal care animal care, thank you.

I never can get the title out.

The animal care services manager, and that that recruitment is open until April 7th, is what you said.

I believe it's April the 7th, is that right, Matt?

Yes.

So a question slash suggestion would be that someone from the city manager's office assumes the interim manager role.

Given that Ryan has a full-time job as communications coordinator and additional role with the activities that have been discussed about communications related to pilots, et cetera.

And given that there have been some uh variety of concerns about the shelter, it seems like it might be really um thoughtful for the city manager office to lean in and take a role as the interim manager and relieve or edu become more educated about some of the or informed about some of the day-to-day activities and not necessarily put a current staff member into that position and subject to some of the challenges that go with that position.

Uh that's a suggestionslash comment from me personally.

Sure.

Um and I definitely appreciate the endorsement of having someone from the city manager's office.

Um I think the thing we have to balance is um as as you said, uh Ryan uh certainly does have a full-time job uh etc.

Um uh that challenge kind of goes around the city uh in terms of it.

I will only I will assure you of this though, that um uh in certainly in the uh recent months, weeks um I've been trying to lean in um to animal care, uh, not just because I think it it it deserves it from a uh subject matter perspective, it's also because of my personal love for animals and and wanting to see that.

Um my partner um who came in briefly, I had to give him some keys um as an active volunteer at Front Street and it was done so um so one of the things I've made a commitment to is I've been working with Ryan and um you can't see Matt Hurdle in the back, who's the um the deputy director of the Department of Community Development, um, have been meeting regularly on all things animal care, and I will continue to do that um even beyond the point where we have uh uh both an animal care manager identified and on board.

So you have that commitment from the city manager's office that we are definitely gonna remain involved on the practical of whether um uh have the capacity to become the interim uh uh animal care manager.

We just have to balance that with uh kind of needs across the city.

So but thank you for the suggestion.

Commissioner Burga.

Um I just had a couple questions that I don't know if you can answer regarding the two vendors that were hired for the SOPs.

Can you can you share who they are?

Or that or that you're considering for the SOPs.

I doubt that I can Carson, do you have any input on that?

I mean, are you in contract negotiations yet?

Are you just considering different we're still in interesting?

I mean uh ultimately I think that would be up to you to talk about who you're considering or not, just depending on whether you think that there would be some sort of chilling effect involved in sharing it.

I mean, really, it's kind of would be up to staff at that point.

Um I don't know if you're taking up the lead in those uh negotiations or uh interviewing.

Uh but also given the fact that maybe interviews are still outstanding, that might be a consideration.

Uh so I would leave it up to staff.

I if I could jump in here, I uh I do know that the norm from our procurement practices across the city is that typically we would not share um that information, certainly during uh kind of uh kind of number one, we haven't even selected anyone yet, nor have we uh interviewed them.

Um it is not uncommon for the city to get um uh outside input on some of those as we move forward, and that may be a possibility, but typically we keep it confidential at least until we're at a certain point in the in any negotiations and and selection.

And the reason why I ask is because there um are there's a lot of controversy in different so-called experts in the animal welfare world.

Um and some in particular that many of us feel have pushed uh illegal reduced intake programs that have caused the current crisis that we see.

And there's a lot of different alignments out there, and so if it would be possible, you know, I I I would just be concerned that if there's a firm that's hired to do the SOPs, that they're independent and they don't have those kinds of affiliations, and maybe they don't because they're more aligned with with uh you know doing the standard operating procedures, but there's a lot of nuances in SOPs as it pertains to shelters that I think are are really critical.

So I just thought I'd mention that number one, and then um the recruitment firm again that you said for the director position.

Uh Wendy Brown and uh uh INC.

Wendy Brown?

Wendy Brown, Wendy Brown, uh with uh with an eye.

Okay, thank you.

And then when is Director Zimmerman's last day?

We're we're talking about interim people being there, and I'm just curious when when he's uh I believe his last official day is the 20th, and we were uh uh kind of in discussions of kind of um reviewing qu who might be qualified to serve as an interim.

Um and ideally that's gonna be someone who has uh expert, you know, subject matter expertise and familiarity with the shelter.

So but we're trying to also just make sure we balance capacity across the organization.

So when you say the 20th of this month.

Okay, so March 20th of this month, and then you are considering potentially an independent interim or someone in staff or at this stage uh we are not looking for an independent outside the agency, partly because um hopefully uh we are endeavoring with the recruitment, um, and and once again this is knocking on wood and hoping that we get a good cadre of candidates uh to limit this interim period to not more than 90 days, kind of three months, kinda um so uh uh once again uh we uh employ your assistance in getting the notice out to as many of your networks as possible.

Um we think um front street is uh absolutely a pat uh a uh a um profession of love, and so um, and uh I think um I think many people are are you know have an amazing experience there because it's a challenging environment, but uh if you care for animals, there's a no you know I think empowering place to be than front street, so thank you.

And Commissioner Virgo, I'll just jump in.

I I think I know who you're concerned may be selected.

I and I don't believe that um either of the vendors were considering or would meet your concerns.

Yeah, Commissioner Benedict Yes, my comment kind of goes back to Commissioner Verga's um concern about the SOPs.

Um because uh I think many of us, like she said, are concerned that the SOPs may include some illegal practices such as this um the reduced intake.

Um is there a way that we can review, will we be able to review the SOPs and make recommendations before they're adopted?

Yes, in the request for proposals, there's a specifically an item that would require the vendor to uh give a presentation on uh the SOPs and and uh receive feedback from the commission.

And then would we in turn be able to make recommendations to remove or change um and take a vote on that sort of thing when it happens?

Uh I mean certainly um you know, feedback and recommendations again.

We're looking we're talking talking about like informal versus formal.

So um, I mean, I as far as I'm aware, the commission can make recommendations on any subject potentially.

Is there a specific reason they couldn't?

Yeah, pursuant to their subject matter jurisdiction.

Um it also would just depend on the nature of the SOP if the SOP was primarily, for example, related to the jurisdiction of like labor relations um issues with uh unions, certain types of policies related to that uh that might not fall within the scope of the commission, whereas other uh policies and practices that more closely aligned with the um the commission's ordinance and subject matter jurisdiction would be appropriate to comment and recommend on.

Um so it would just depend on the individual policy.

Thank you.

Commissioner Burga.

Um since um you are here um assistant city manager Jessel.

I just thought I'd mention that um Ms.

Bagley and Snell had already started on SOPS because earlier in the year at the commission meetings, that's what the plan was supposed to be.

And um, and I think many of us have an a real interest in them.

They're they're critical to the well-functioning um, you know, of a shelter.

And one thought would be would it be possible for us before the presentation to get a preemptive copy, those of us that may be interested in the SOPS, just so we can evaluate them and and um give our insights um regarding the SOPs.

That would be a request, I think that many of us might be interested in, especially our our new member who has a lot of experience in sheltering.

I think I would I would love for her to take a look at them.

Um let us I'm I'm not opposed to it.

Let us take a look at see how that might work.

And and um, and I'm just thinking off the top of my head that might actually uh form a good basis for an ad hoc committee on a very limited basis time-wise, but let's have that conversation so yeah, thank you.

My other thought would be since they had already started drafting some items as once the vendors selected, you know, submit what has been already uh formulated as a as a basis for you know off offering it up.

Yeah, there's no such thing as bad feedback, so um I'm not opposed to it, but you determined.

Yeah.

All right, seeing no more speakers.

Thank you for the report.

Uh we've got um next on the agenda is Commissioner comments, ideas, and questions.

So this would be the place I'm going to suggest that uh Commissioner Hayes, who uh agreed to lead an informal committee uh to work with this shelter on um at risk.

Uh anyone else who's interested should I mean we could take names now, but or you can contact her directly uh so that it is we do not have any brown act issues.

There's a maximum of six people on that can work on on this.

Um but uh so if you want to volunteer now, I'll have you for the names, or you can just contact her directly.

But let us formulate a uh informal subcommittee to work with the shelterer, and I do appreciate anyone who's willing to put their time in and help.

Uh Commissioner Morris the follow-up log.

Can we add a couple things to the follow-up log at this?

This is time to do this.

Okay.

Um I'd like to add an item related to last year's ad hoc committee on dog adoptions.

Uh a few of us looking at Commissioner Bagley and Garcia.

We participated in an ad hoc committee on dog adoptions.

Several recommendations came from that work.

Uh, but the the next steps on implementing those recommendations seem to have fallen through the cracks.

And so I'm hoping that there can be some further pursuit of implementation of recommendations.

And the recommendations were things like um targeted marketing strategies tied to neighborhoods with historically high adoption rates, uh, post-adoption support recommendations.

There's a whole host of things that came out of that ad hoc committee, which were in last year's annual report.

Um, and and it sort of stopped there.

So hoping we can put that on the log as a next step of following up on some of the things we worked on.

So added as a discussion item.

Um, and it doesn't seem like that would be something that a staff presentation would be necessary for, if anything, it actually would seem like a commissioner presentation.

Yeah, that the commissioners have the information.

So just for clarifying for the log on on how much need uh staff time is is required.

Um okay, duly noted.

Uh another one would be uh returning to discussions that were presented in 2024 about identifying an eight-acre site for a new shelter.

Uh that came out of an extensive needs assessment that was conducted and the idea of either the city identifying an eight-acre-ish, seven, eight-acre-ish site that a new shelter could be located on.

Uh, there was one effort to pursue that, and it was property that had encumbrances on it, so you couldn't build on it, so it's like okay, what's next in terms of looking for an eight-acre site that the city, i.e., there's a hundred and two acres in Meadow View.

I don't know.

Um I don't know if the uh blue diamond factory has eight acres.

I don't know, but could we reinvigorate the discussion about either a city property?

I'm looking at uh city manager Jasso to help us back with this, but a piece of city property, and or if some of us who maybe work in the real estate world might know somebody who might have eight acres to donate to the city uh for a dollar or something, uh whether we might find a private in individual who could help us with some sort of acreage.

So that's a second thing to go on the log.

Um and I've kind of drafted some language for the log, but I'm just picking forward that later.

The other thing is some discussion about a capital campaign to raise funds for uh a new shelter.

Uh ideas have been put floated regarding either a bond or a parcel tax or private fund development.

Uh uh the past chair had taken some leadership on bond and parcel tax.

Uh we don't have his uh input at this point, but I wouldn't like to lose that as a commission effort to look at how we might do um some sort of a capital campaign fund development around the potential for a new shelter.

Just as a con related note, these things were in prior annual reports which were approved by PNPE, forwarded to city council, and approved by city council.

So these are plans or activities that were previously approved by city council to look for new property to look at capital campaign, um, and the and working on the dog adoption uh methodologies.

Okay, very good to keep it back on the radar or put it back on the radar since they're not there.

Um Commissioner Verga.

Um maybe Brian knows the answer to this question, but uh I believe it was on last month's agenda.

It was mentioned, I think in the manager's report that there that 500,000 was approved for spay neuter 500,000 is in the proposed, but the city uh will be in the city management now council ultimately has to adopt that budget, and there are a lot of competing priorities.

So okay, that's what I wanted to get clarification on.

So there'll be hearings then at the city council regarding that proposal.

I would that's correct, and I think if I'm not mistaken, community development will be up in front of the city council for presentation.

I think it's next week, Gomat, the 17th, say uh two o'clock meeting.

So there are other departments as well.

So if you can this wouldn't go to a committee first, this is gonna go right to the city council.

So what we are in the process of doing is all the departments are uh presenting to city council our recommendations uh for for budget.

The council will have to deliberate um the that budget proposal in totality and see if there are other things that they sure so but at this stage it's just presentation for council and just and discussion uh that counts feedback from council.

And in your opinion, would it be valuable if some commissioners showed up to try to say why it's it's so important?

I think it's always valuable to have advocacy on any issue.

Come on, so okay, I would be interested in knowing when that was so it is Tuesday the 17th.

Okay, uh City Council begins at two o'clock.

There are I don't remember what order CDD is their second.

Um what is uh sorry, Matt.

Uh what what is before that?

So I know I know it is not police or fire, which are tend to be the two longest.

So I'm gonna put um yeah, it may be youth and parks, which will probably be a long item.

So don't go on that or you know, Commissioner Garcia.

So would this be the time to talk about some of the things on the um log that could be removed just to clean it up a little bit?

Um some of the things like that are already happening, like um Ryan gave some information on the kitten connection, so can we take that off?

Um I think you were talking about the COVID stuff as well, correct?

And maybe the shelters manager report um in advance.

Correct.

I have that one on my list too.

Okay, going down the line here.

Um I'm I'm not sure on this one.

The uh uh dog foster um guidelines.

There's some here.

I don't know if that's adequate or not.

It looks like it's been on here since January as well.

I don't know if that's what folks were looking for.

Connections done.

Some of these things like you say can be done with a group of people or committee, it doesn't necessarily have to be like a big discussion at a meeting where it's gonna be put on an agenda and maybe takes place of something else we'd rather discuss.

Um so just to circle back for your list, my list combined, um, because I didn't track who's who said who, but I had additional spay neuter events, shelter manager report in advance, pre-COVID capacity, cat youth and Asia list, because that was something we discussed earlier to be removed, um kitten connection, and then one other one I had as potential is animals not on the rescue list because rescue somewhere else.

There any other anyone have any problem with those being removed?

Did you just say animals not on the rescue list would be removed?

That was a question if if it was resolved because it was information Ryan's gonna be presenting on rescues and policy rescue, rescue policy.

And if you could be in it on the preferred would be great too, you know.

Say that again.

I said animals not on the rescue list.

It what that was about was that about final plea.

Why final plea was important is because not all animals are on the rescue list, so I think it would be covered.

That item would be covered.

Okay, so um Commissioner Asquith.

And just a time check.

We have nine minutes and we still have the public to speak.

I don't need speakers, I just think I have a question for assistant city manager Jasso.

Um, if the um if manager Zimmerman is um unavailable next week to present in front of city council the need for the 500,000 in spay neuter money, who will do that in his place?

So all the departments are represented by their directors.

Uh so in the case of uh CDD, it will be Tom Pace, who's the director of community development of which I'm so and uh to be uh there'll still be representation of individual divisions uh within that, so there will be animal care representation there as there is building uh planning, etc.

Somebody maybe somebody would be representing the but but typically they would only be coming up and speaking if there's a specific question that for some reason the director could not answer.

So yes, um, I just would like to add um or re-add, I guess, um Commissioner Bagley's shelter law presentation, which was not on the follow-up log.

Um, I think we should put that on.

I made no uh okay at the start when we saw that it was missing.

Okay, thank you.

Could I jump in and ask a clarifying question and apologies?

I um I knew that you wanted to two clarifications actually.

One is for the return to owner um or let's see, redemption redemption policy.

Um I had in my notes that you felt that a um a presentation was not required.

Were you including I know you probably meant staff presentation not required, which I um I agree with as long as I can you know convey the policy, but did you want to do a presentation for that?

I don't know.

Okay.

I think it would we would benefit hearing from you.

I don't think it requires a staff presentation.

I think your input it is important, and then I think the discussion that commissioners could have would be incentivizing the first redemption.

We know or we should know the law on the second and subsequent redemptions.

Okay, and then this the other one, and apologies.

I I didn't have this in in my notes, um, a general presentation on laws and codes related to sheltering.

Yes.

Do you feel like I don't know, obviously, there's a lot of things that could be there.

Do you have any specifics on the things you'd like to discuss?

Would you be able to share them so I could put them on the log?

Okay.

I would have a PowerPoint, a clean PowerPoint without my opinions on it.

But yes, I do have a long language.

Yeah.

Okay.

I can send I can send you language.

Yeah, I was just current current city ordinances and state law that work together that reflect what is legal in sheltering versus violative.

Okay, thanks.

Commissioner Morris, just uh request to remove the very last item, the site improvement review, Commissioner Berrigan and I actually chatted about that, and he's comfortable with understanding how those improvements came to be determined.

Okay, yeah.

Okay, Jilly noted.

Uh Commissioner Verga.

I I would say before that's removed, uh, because um I I that's just a lot of money that's going to interim improvements, and Leah, if we could just meet even at the shelter and you could walk me through them, that may take care of any concerns that I have, but that's a lot of money.

Um, and that's an old building, and I think safety concerns for animals and people should be the priority there.

Um, but I also know having done project management for very many construction projects with old buildings and old houses.

You pull one little thread and you you can cause a bigger problem.

So I would just say before I I would just love to be able to walk through with you to see what those interim improvements involve before it's taken off the follow-up log.

Please.

Any other comments?

Very close.

All right, seeing none, uh, do we have any public comments?

I do not have any speakers for public comments matters not on the agenda.

All right.

Yeah, so that concludes today's agenda.

I want to thank everyone for your participation, and the meeting is adjourned.