Good evening.

I would like to call the March 24th, 2026 meeting of the planning board to order.

Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

To the Republic for which it stands under God and visible Liberty Justice Raw.

My name is Joe Fioli serving as chairman tonight.

Members of the planning board sitting tonight to my right is Jim Harvey.

Good evening, Salem.

Bianca Carlson.

Good evening, Salem.

Uh Jeremy Gilbo.

Hello, Salem.

And to my left, we welcome back town council rep Paul Pelletier.

It's great to be back.

Thank you.

Chuck Sabah.

Good evening.

And Damon Norcross.

Welcome back, Paul.

And we have uh Jacob LaForteen as the planning director tonight.

The uh the agenda is as follows.

Um with one item of old business.

Uh that's the Walco Learning LLC site plan public hearing for 11,000 square foot daycare facility.

Um 142 Main Street and two items of new business.

First is HDR Holdings, LLC Wonder Site Plan.

It's a public hearing for 4,000 square foot 17 seat restroom with a conditional use permit for reduced parking at 125 South Broadway.

And PR Sports Hooks hit LLC site plan.

That's a public hearing for 25,000 one hundred square foot pickleball facility with six indoor courts and six outdoor courts.

Um at 179 Main Street.

Uh any withdrawals tonight?

No withdrawals, Mr.

Chair.

Uh we have uh one item of business uh meeting minutes for March 12th.

Ms.

Chair, I move to accept the minutes from the March 12th, 2026 planning board meeting as written.

Second.

Um any discussion on that?

All is in favor.

It's 502.

Thank you.

We have uh election of officers tonight.

Mr.

Chair, I'd like to make a motion that the uh officers remain the same for the next year's term, which would be yourself, Joe Fioli is chairman, Mr.

Sean Lewis is vice chair, and Mr.

Damon Norcross is secretary.

Second uh motion a second to keep the officers the same as the previous term.

Um discussion on that.

All in favor.

Um abstaining against okay.

Well, we could have had that discussion.

We're just having fun.

Okay.

Well, that's that's 610.

Okay.

I just want to be on the record, and I don't want to be secretary.

Um too late.

Yeah, it's it's legal now.

So okay.

Well that goes uh we have um first item on the agenda is the old business for the welco learning site plan.

Um butters, please.

Butters are as follows.

If you're here, please indicate by saying so they are Met Scott 21, LeBrec, Kohler, ZJBV properties, E point LLC, Town of Salem, Peaver and Hicks, Patriot Investment Group, and that is all.

Oh sorry, no uh CONUS and Mobile Courts Inc.

as well.

Thank you.

Can you uh bring us up to date with uh the changes since we last heard the plan?

Uh yep, something's going on with my computer.

Maybe not.

Um so you accepted this plan February 10th uh of this year.

Since that time they've made a lot of modifications.

They did submit a photometric plan in light in details.

That was relative to the concerns we raised about the existing site lighting.

Uh they also identify the pavement set back to the wetlands noted as one foot.

Uh so obviously it's a pre-existent encroachment.

They're gonna maintain that.

It's shown on the appropriate uh on the proposed plan as well.

Um let me just continue here.

I'll open this.

Uh in addition to that, uh, the flood plan has been shown on the plan.

Again, there's an existing encroachment, but they're not proposing any changes.

Uh stockade fence is proposed along the southern parking spaces.

That was added to prevent plowing uh snow into the wetland.

So you can see that in this area here.

They'll have a stockade fence.

Um they've added some uh vegetation.

They've got one maple at the eastern entrance, which was a request from staff uh at the last meeting and the board.

They've also added four ink berries, uh resulting in 16 total.

One thing that I don't think you know, they've shown a couple ink berries here, uh, but I think that we'd the idea was to continue these through.

I think they might be missing some here too, but that's probably something that we could work at the uh work out at the staff level, just so we have consistent landscaping in the front.

I think it might be shown under some of the underlay, but uh I don't believe any of that is existing, but again, something that could be handled.

Uh, the proposed lock coverage has been slightly reduced.

They were previously proposing 80.4%, now they're proposing 70.7%.

Uh the applicant is proposing to re-establish the pedestrian connection to East Point Plaza.

We talked about that at the last meeting, and it is now shown.

They have a sidewalk here, and then a uh steps that will uh go up to East Point Plaza.

Uh they're no longer proposing the full access curb.

They've eliminated the dead dead end aisle in front of the playground.

So uh there was a dead end here, and there was also a dead end aisle here to the rear.

Uh they still have it to the rear, but that's going to be uh designated for staff parking, and then in the front rather than the dead end aisle, they'll have the ADA spaces there.

Um so that's obviously a benefit.

Um the majority, I think, of what comes down to in terms of the outstanding items is going to be the site circulation and the access management.

Uh you have a memo from Steve Purnow.

You have response to Steve comments, and you also have this revised plan that uh attempted to make some modifications to address a meeting that we had with the applicant and Steve last week.

Um let me just um I'll go through quickly or hopefully quickly through some of the uh sketches and the revisions that were proposed by uh Steve and then the applicant as well.

So this is the plan as it's currently configured.

Uh you'll recall previously uh this was a full access, this was a full access, and then this was to uh retain their uh entrance here for East Point Plaza.

They've abandoned the full access proposed here, and they've abandoned the full access proposed here.

This will now be a one-way exit and then a one-way entrance.

This will remain full access as it exists today, and then they'll uh have one way uh to the uh let's see, that's to the east, and then one way to the west here, and then they would have the ability to exit onto church as well.

This was what was shown.

This is the existing site circulation, which works pretty well.

But uh what would this what would be required to maintain this site circulation would be to put the playground in the front.

The applicant has stated that it's advisable to have the playground uh I think at least 30 feet from the the right of way, you know, for uh to prevent conflicts with vehicles.

This these are the items that were highlighted last time, so they've modified a lot, they made a lot of modifications.

There's a uh travel aisle here, no longer dead end parking here, uh dead end aisle, no longer dead end aisle here, and then they eliminated those full access, and again, this is what they're proposing today.

So uh Steve Purnow reviewed this, and and he's he well, prior to this, he reviewed their sketch before they added some signage and they angled the parking in the front.

But Steve Purnow had proposed, and this was included in your packet, three different alternative sketches.

So this was that first one where it has the playground in the front.

The applicant has indicated that this is a non-starter for them, uh, particularly because of proximity to the right of way, uh, but it was a consideration that Steve had to kind of maintain the uh similar traffic flow that exists today.

And the reason being is because you know they are increasing trips.

Uh that's you know, in their in their memo, particularly the peak trips, right?

Their morning trips are going to be uh much greater than what they have currently, and then they'll have some uh some additional increase in the PM over the previous retail use that was there, the pharmacy.

So Steve had this is an excerpt from his memo.

He says, in addition to on-site parking and internal circulation patterns, the board should also consider utilize an access management techniques as a form of traffic mitigation for this project.

Typical access management measures aim to reduce the number of access points along the corridor, and another is to reduce the number of conflict points on the corridor.

And that was the intent of all three sketches.

It was to try to reduce the the access points.

They don't have the ability to add a turn lane, for instance, on Main Street.

You know, they can't do that.

They you know, so in terms of mitigation, mitigation is limited essentially to kind of on-site, and these are the different proposals that Steve had.

So this would eliminate that middle curb cut.

They would still have an exit here.

They'd have an entrance on East Point Plaza.

There is uh an issue with this because East Point Plaza's uh property owners stated that they uh are opposed to having this convert.

Right now it's a right entrance and it goes to East Point.

This would allow full access or at least access to the to the east or west, rather.

And then this is option C kind of a similar sketch where you'd have an entrance here, and then you'd go one way across the front to the stop bar, and then you could access the rear parking exit, or you could go straight to East Point Plaza.

So those were the items that were discussed with Steve Purnow.

Those memos were included in your packet.

They didn't make revisions that were shown.

This is their current plan, which Steve hasn't commented on yet.

So I'll just make note of that.

I didn't know that if the board approves the current configuration, the applicant should extend the eastern stop bar, which is now been done under this current revised plan as of Monday, and add signage one way, do not enter, etc.

Which has also been added to the plan.

We talked about uh the pedestrian connection that they are now proposing in East Point Plaza, and just to highlight this was if I can get to it, this was that prior connection, they're going to re-establish it so that you'll be able to connect between the two properties.

We talked about the landscape and that they're going to add.

In terms of the elevations, they're doing a really nice job.

They're adding some transparency, adding some windows, uh pretty much keeping the majority of the building the same as it exists with some enhancements.

This is that East Point entrance.

So right now I'm sure people, because you physically can uh probably still go around it occasionally, but the idea here would be to round that out.

And again, East Point Plaza was not uh excited about that idea.

And then uh in addition to that, there are impact fees that are going to be required for public safety.

They don't have any impact fees for traffic, I don't believe, because it was uh uh similar use or calculated at the same rate.

That's not accurate.

Uh pharmacies actually calculated a uh higher rate than daycare, so they actually would have not had to pay anything in that instance.

Um the photometric plan was submitted.

Uh we do note that the plan hasn't been amended.

Maybe it was as of Monday, but um the plan needs to be amended just to show that the lights are to be replaced.

Plan also needs to be amended to show what the materials for the curb in is whether it's going to be uh bituminous or uh vertical granite.

Um so that was a common, and I don't think that item has been addressed, but could be handled at the staff level if the board's comfortable.

Uh so that's a staff summary.

I'm sure the applicant will have more to add, particularly on the circulation.

Um I've recommended conditions if the board would would like to act on the plan tonight.

Okay, thank you.

Um the applicant have anything to add?

Yes.

Uh good evening.

Again, my name is Ian Ainsley.

I'm an engineer for Meiser Brem.

I am here with Jeff and Carrie Walton.

They are the managers of Welco Learning, the applicant, and we're here with Bill Gaffney as well, the property owner.

Um so since the last meeting, we've made, I would say, pretty good amount of changes to address the board's feedback and Mr.

Perna's feedback as far as the traffic circulation goes.

I think the biggest change is if you recall, we had three curb cuts that were all full access to direction.

Um the two curb cuts to the right, we have now put those as one direction, one in and one out.

So the three curb cuts that are on the site are actually going to stay the same flow pattern that they are now.

So the one-way in is staying a one-way in, the two-way staying a two-way.

So it's going to kind of mimic the existing condition in that sense.

The other major thing we did, and I think this is something the board asked for, is the drop-off in the front, the drop-off spaces.

That was two-way previously.

We've made that one-way in order to make that kind of more streamlined kind of conveyor belt uh type process.

Where now they're only going one direction through there.

We angled those parking spaces to kind of reinforce the one-way nature of that.

Um then as part of that, we've made it so coming in the middle curb cut, you can kind of turn to the right and go around the play area and access the additional parking to the right.

And in doing that, we've eliminated one of the dead ends that was in front of the play area previously, so that is no longer a dead end.

Um of the other things that we've done.

We added signage to help facilitate that one way.

So we have a stop sign at the end of the drop-off to the left, a do-not-enter sign as well, just to help people kind of navigate and know which way they're supposed to be going.

Um, part of our kind of traffic control and mitigation.

We did prepare what we're calling a traffic management plan.

That's an actual handout that's going to be given to the parents when they enroll their students here.

And that's just sort of a simple, you know, here's a map of the property, here's how traffic works, here's where you can come in, here's where the drop-off is.

sign at the end of the um drop off to the left a do not enter sign as well just to help people kind of navigate and know which way they're supposed to be going um as part of our kind of traffic control and mitigation we did prepare what we're calling a traffic management plan that's an actual handout that's going to be given to the parents when they enroll their students here and that's just sort of a simple you know here's a map of the property here's how traffic works here's where you can come in here's where the drop off is so that's something that we're including in the submittal to say that we're gonna commit to handing that out you know as the business uh operates so that traffic is managed long term and the parents that are enrolled there understand how traffic and parking work on the site um another item that we did we added a stairway in pedestrian access to facilitate the connection between East Point and this site that was something that was discussed I think a couple of years ago in a prior approval that um the pointing board had been looking at on the site so we've done that as well um that's really the gist of what we've done we did try to reach out to the abutting property owner at East Point to see if they would be interested in making the changes that Mr.

Pernaut has suggested for alternatives for I think B and C to turn that curb cut into a kind of a two-way for both sites they had opposition to that because all of our entrance traffic for the drop off would now be directed into their curb cut into the East Point curb cut and they they didn't want that they didn't want that fixing with their morning traffic and that kind of stuff so they've written that in that letter and so that's why we've kind of gone ahead with the layout that we have and that's what we've provided and happy to answer your questions.

Thank you.

Any members of the public like to speak on the plan board anything board yes um don't know how to describe it the second the exit um driveway underneath the orange areas will you maintain the right arrow and uh left arrow turn lanes there will that actually be two lanes or are you taking space out of that area?

I think what you're asking is that kind of shared curb cut where the property line cuts through and it's kind of a right arrow into East Point that arrow is going to stay the same coming out I don't know if there's a left turn only I think it's just a straight arrow coming out and you could turn either way onto Main Street.

There is space for two and I believe there are I was just trying to pull it up on the um hard to see on the photo on the GPS but my office is in there so I'm relatively confident that there's one there.

And I think exiting there I think if you're able to if you're able to keep that um it would be helpful because that that area will get I can see that area getting backed up this area here Mr.

Nor yeah we're not changing that configuration so that that space the distance between those to the yes that's gonna stay the same way.

Yes.

Yep.

Okay.

Oh there you go.

You can see it's pretty faded but you're right and you can kind of see how on the right it's it's sort of formed so that it it channels the traffic to the right you're talking about the exit so there is a right and the left so right you're right in 2012 it was striped so that there was a right arrow and a left arrow.

What's your curb cut width there it's 23 feet currently which is you know that's that's wide enough for two-way travel never mind one way travel.

So I think that's when Reserve crosses uh proposing is that you'd uh instead of having the one arrow you'd have two lanes there is that you're saying you'd have a so you could depart left or right we'd be okay with that one way around yes they're gonna be repaving out there and when they do that they'll be striping and painting it as well so I think that'd be easy to do.

Yeah because the exit the entrance well the plaza to your uh on the other side may not appreciate people driving through there but that plaza has to drive through your property to exit unless they go through church so um yeah I see what you're saying to put the two lanes you know now you kind of have double the storage of the cars leaving so it it's wide enough to do it I'm I'm fine with that.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um concerns about was were there any concerns I didn't see anything from Mr.

Purnow regarding uh increased traffic on church street.

Um in church street in Maine.

Uh is incredibly difficult intersection.

Um I don't did did Mr.

Purnow have any comments about any increase volume of traffic coming out of Church Street.

No, we he he had the applicant study the site drives along Main Street, but we didn't study the church street uh search av intersection.

Um when we met last week, there was discussion about you know using Church Street as a secondary exit.

Um and then they've shown that on this plan so that if you were to go to the rear of the site, then you could exit out onto uh church av and then uh take this route rather than go back through the uh uh main street exit.

And you can do that now from the right aid property as it is.

Yeah, exactly currently you'd you'd come in here and then you could either exit through church av or you could exit through the main middle cut.

All right.

Good.

Ms.

Carlson, did you have something?

Um okay.

Anything else further from the board?

Mr.

Pellate?

Yeah, I just want to thank you for uh doing that uh drop-off circulation and that configuration uh due to the fact of uh in between your building and the um in Hockey's next door, that that passageway is very narrow over there, and there's a lot of heavy trucks that come from the back lot and come out.

So that'll give a view of after the cow is dropped off, and actually the parent will have to view up, take a look up that out that that road, and if it were any other direction coming in or two-way, it would be very more uh very more con uh jammed up.

So I like your your plan that way.

Yeah, we thought right to left made more sense than going left to right.

Anything further?

Uh Ms.

Calvin.

Um the only question I have is what do you what are you anticipating for opening, even if it's super rough?

Depending on the building permit, it could be mid-September October.

Something if all goes to plan.

Yeah, fingers crossed.

Jacob.

Jacob, this is uh is this in your opinion meet um Mr.

Purnow's comments?

I guess it's mitigation sketch B.

Uh mitigation sketch B or C is that you said.

I guess this is B the way they have it here.

Yeah, this would this would kind of regulation go in uh east.

Yeah, this would kind of be like a D or like a hybrid, I guess of B because uh they're retaining that middle curb cut um here.

So, you know, Steve's recommendation, and I think I highlighted it from his memo was you know that they could mitigate the additional peak trip demands by eliminating a curb cut.

The applicant would like to instead retain the curb cut.

And uh they did some modifications as Mr.

Purna Mr.

Purnow's request.

Mr.

Purnow did ask them to consult East Point Plaza, which they have done in East Point Plaza's raised objection.

Uh he also asked them to add angled parking in the front and then to add the uh the uh traffic control signage so they do not enter in the stop sign.

So um, you know, I mean I his initial memo was saying, hey, you should try one of these three options.

They've opted not to do that.

Uh if the board's comfortable with with this proposal, um, you know, you could approve it as such.

It'd be a little bit better if we have Mr.

Purnow's uh comments in hand.

And I think that was just because of time and you know, we met last week and then they got the revised plan Monday, so he just wasn't able to turn the comments around in time.

Um so really I I guess uh, you know, the board you have Steve Purnow's memo, you have the applicant's memo.

You know, there's there's maybe two ways you could handle it.

You could either say, you know, hey, we really think that access management needs to be addressed, and we think you should go with either, you know, I know the applicant is uh not open at all to uh uh to sketch A, so maybe it would be sketch B or C.

You could make that a condition of approval.

Or you could uh you know, approve the plan as proposed here with maybe some conditions that say they shall comply with their traffic and park and management plan and you know, maybe get the final sign off from Steve Purnow.

Uh it's a little clunky because Steve kind of suggesting these other ones, but um, you know, uh he would when talking with him last week, he was kind of saying, Well, if you were to go this route, these are the recommendations I would have angled parking uh signage.

So I don't think the applicant is I mean, you could ask you you could ask the applicant to continue to your next meeting.

I don't think they'd like to do that, but that would allow them opportunity to uh have Mr.

Purnow's you know review of this proposal.

Um but that was kind of the the cliff notes of our discussion with Steve advocated for sketch A, B, or C.

They said, hey, this is really what we'd like to present to the board.

Steve said, Well, if the board were to approve that, these are the modifications I'd I'd like made, which they have done, but I don't know if that helps you or not.

All right, well, let's take a temperature.

I mean, I'm generally okay with the um the plan here, but um I do like to uh have Steve Purnow's final sign off on anything traffic related because none of us are traffic engineers.

So um, but uh I don't know.

Anyone have an opinion?

Yes.

Um I mean I I don't know about the rest of the board, but I know I'm personally against option A, um, even though I I understand why he's suggesting that.

But I just think the practicality they don't have option A here, right?

No, I know, but Steve is is suggesting option A as has his primary choice, and I'm saying I don't agree with that choice, and I agree much more in line with what they're suggesting, which is probably a hybrid of B and C.

Personally, I would be comfortable just leaving it between Steve and them to come to an agreement with something along the lines of what it's continuing to play.

Not make one comment.

Yeah.

So I I mean I think that what they have proposed here is fine, but if Steve has any other minor recommendations, then sure.

I don't think they need to come back to us for a minor tweak to it, but okay.

Paul I like the way it is.

Okay.

Like that.

Yes.

I said we'll miss it.

Yeah, Mr.

Oakers.

Um, I just have a question about option C this one here.

Yeah, it just so I'm clear on it.

The that eliminates a curb cut in both B and C, he's eliminating that left-right curb cut.

Yes.

Yeah.

How do you um where do you exit?

You could on C.

Yeah, you could exit back onto Main Street.

So you'd enter by Hoxy's and Sammy J's.

Yeah.

You'd go westbound, and then you could exit either through church Av to the rear of the site, or you could exit back onto Main Street.

So all three sketches do eliminate a curb cut.

And I don't know that it was like a sorry, God.

I I apologize, just real quick.

I I thought that's the elimination of that curb cut.

There's a red line.

Right.

Right.

I thought that red line.

There's another curb cut that's kind of in the middle.

Yeah, they've got they've got four curb cuts.

So this is the East Point Plaza.

This is your exit.

Jeez.

And then yeah.

So all three sketches eliminate a curb cut.

This one eliminates a curb cut here, I believe.

And then it would only uh retain two.

I don't think the the letters were weighted.

I don't I don't recall.

Uh, you know, I mean, I I think from a traffic circulation standpoint, this is preferred, but obviously from an operational standpoint from the applicant, it's a non-starter to have the playground that close to the right-of-way.

So, you know, I think it was in our discussion when we met last week, we didn't spend a lot of time on option A.

We reviewed option B and C.

The applicant indicated that you know, of the two, C would probably, if they had to, would be the per, you know, the preferred of the applicant, but their their ultimate preference was to go with what they've proposed.

So really kind of up to the board, uh, like I said, you know, yeah.

I Mr.

Chair, I I really would like Mr.

Purnow to weigh in on this uh and provide some feedback.

I think one of the advantages to what Mr.

Purnau is recommending here is it increases the number of spaces dedicated to uh drop off, which will uh decrease the number of overlaps you have as you're you know coming, you know, you go in, oh there's no space, they come have to come back out, then they gotta circle back around, and they gotta come back in, and then they gotta turn right.

Um I mean it appears that you would increase the number of drop-off line drop-off spaces, even in an angled environment.

But I'm not a traffic person.

So that's why I would like to see Mr.

Purknow.

By elimination of the curb cut, you'd you'd have additional parking because that curb cut would would uh turn into additional parking.

So you are right.

I raised the concern to the traffic to the applicant's traffic consultant.

They think that there is not enough turnover that it would become an issue.

But I I was concerned.

I said, well, if you enter the center curb cut and you go to the left because there's the drop-off spaces, and for whatever reason, you know, you thought there was a space that was open and it's not when you get here, you would have to, you know, turn back on to uh main street and then enter the site again, which could uh cause some traffic issues.

But um I don't know.

I mean you could discuss with the applicant what their appetite for Steve's sketches are too.

I mean uh I can kind of state why we have opposition if you don't mind.

No, okay.

Did you again yeah, thank you.

Okay, yeah, I'm gonna have to say so I I I tend to agree with my colleague and with Mr.

Bruno that you know I like this plan to me it looks good, but I am not I don't work in that plaza.

He does, and I'm not a traffic guy.

So I'd like him to weigh in again.

Fair.

Did you have something to let you go with?

Yes, I just had one question.

Are you gonna be holding events here at like so there will be a periodically?

We talked about that a little bit at the previous meeting.

Um we can discuss.

Yeah.

I mean, our plan for events are gonna be staggered based on ages or or groups, and and the thing is our capacity is 140 students.

It takes two to three years before we can come close to that number.

So we're gonna have a trial period where we have 40 students and we get to figure out what the sign-up list is for an event and the demand is, and we're gonna just change our our plan depending on what the needs are and what people are requesting for events over time.

And we will also be open to hosting things off-site.

Um between our last meeting and now we went to a Goddard convention and we were able to speak with a lot of other owners who've been doing this for years, and you know, answering to the planning boards across the country, and you know, they said there's always a solution.

It's just figuring out, you know, for your specific school what that is.

So, you know, a lot of the bigger schools will host things off-site at hotels, um, partner with other venues, and it they it works out.

If I may add, Mr.

Kevin, uh, I am 100% opposed to putting a playground in the front of that building due to the fact I'm always afraid of a runaway vehicle.

We've had the same instance uh on another private school a few years back.

We've had the same uh discussion on an addition to a restaurant on 28 uh and that was retro uh ratified.

Uh you get this three different points over here where you there can be a runaway vehicle in here for no no apparent reason, uh any reason at all.

And there isn't a barricade around that's gonna stop a vehicle from bodging into if there were a playground on the front there.

So I am totally against that.

Okay.

You know that good to note.

I don't I think the we the discussion has just been has not included that what would have been uh I guess sketch A.

Um, just so that I'm in favor of as it's presented by the applicant, I don't I don't see any issues with with the proposals.

Okay.

And if if we may just one note we were trying to make, I just want to make the note that what we presented is essentially is it B?

It's very close to B.

It's very close to B, with the exception of that one curb cut not being closed off.

And in our meeting verbally with Steve, Jacob, myself, Jeff, and Ian.

Steve did state that as if we were to speak with the landlord of the abutting property, and he was opposed to us making modifications to his property, he would be okay with B as we presented it.

He didn't formally respond, and that stinks, but you know, just as four witnesses to Steve's vocalization the other week.

Yeah, that's what we heard.

Thank you.

That's helpful.

Um Mr.

Lafontaine, were you there?

Can you corroborate this?

Yeah.

Um thank you, Mr.

Crest.

Yeah, and I I think I hopefully I captured that in my testimony.

Uh I said earlier, but uh we met, you know, Steve said these are what I would recommend.

The applicant came back with this one.

Steve said if the board's comfortable with that, please angle the parking spaces, please add the traffic control signage, and uh please consult with the property owner at East Point Plaza, which they have done all those things.

So I guess I mean ultimately uh it goes towards you, and you know, and I understand it's tough because we always like to have uh you know final comments from from our third-party consultant.

You could make that a condition of approval if if you'd like.

Uh it's a little unusual, but I mean I guess you would you'd kind of approve if the board's comfortable with the sketch as presented or the plan is presented, you'd approve it here, and then Steve would you know ensure that as much mitigation uh as possible is provided in absence of the access management uh sketches that he's submitted.

So, Mr.

Chair, um based on that, I considering that feedback and that we have a letter from the neighboring property that states that he would prefer that not to be the case.

I I think I'm I'm okay.

Okay.

Well Mr.

Chair.

Um it it seems that if we were to approve this plan as is and sort and make it a condition of approval that Mr.

Parnaugh is in favor of of this plan, then it sort of puts the risk back on the applicant to get it signed off by Mr.

Perna as is, correct?

And yeah, I think I think Steve, you know, Steve wouldn't I don't think you he wouldn't say hey you need to do sketch C and then they have to come back on board.

I think you know Steve uh you know the applicant has kind of indicated Steve was saying, all right.

Well if this is what you're proposing, let's hear what the planning board has to say.

But ultimately, if he doesn't if he doesn't give his stamp on it, then they would earn themselves a trip back here.

And that would be at their risk schedule-wise, I imagine.

Yeah.

Um, you know, he was hoping to get his comments to us tonight.

I could check my phone and see if he submitted it either tonight or tomorrow.

But you know, on with the understanding that the meeting was at at seven, so I know he was trying.

But um, what'd you say that the only difference is the curb cut here?

Uh between option, so that they did they did acknowledge that option option their option is similar to uh sketch B.

Yeah.

So sketch B does have one-way access, and it would eliminate this curved cut.

So let me just see if I um this is optional B.

So you'd instead of having uh this is an entrance, they would eliminate that.

You'd have an exit, which is as they currently have it proposed, they would have uh still the uh entrance at East Point, but Steve was proposing it to be also uh so you could access to the left or right.

East Point has said that they're not comfortable with that, and then it would reconfigure a little bit of the spaces primarily where the curb cut is.

I'm okay with the plan as it is.

Okay.

One thing we could talk to Steve about too is you know the applicant did um uh traffic counts at the site driveways pre-con the pre-condition.

Uh in the past we have had post uh occupancy requirements so that we can just kind of get a sense of a parking management plan.

Yeah, and do a post-occupancy study just to, you know, if if we have cues that are in the street, then hey, let's try to figure out an alternative.

Maybe at that point the opp the applicant would have to do option, that is a condition for a parking management plan.

Let's see that on there.

Uh I had added per discussion under uh condition six.

I think applicant shall comply with traffic management plan and have special events approved by third party consultant.

That was part of your scope plan, but I don't think we really discussed it.

So I think I'd want Steve to I'd like the applicant maybe to speak to that and then Steve to say yes that makes sense to me.

For a parking management plan?

Uh for special events, and then in addition to that, I think we could add language to say that they would have to, you know, uh I you could do it a couple ways you could do it, like six to nine months post-occupancy, they do the counts, or you could do it at a certain level of occupancy, that gets a little trickier.

Um that's what we typically six to nine months, right?

Six to nine months is our standard and then they could do counts, and if there are issues in the street, probably by that time we would know of it, and then the applicant at as mitigation, you know, we might end up at option B or C at that point if if there's an issue.

Okay.

Mr.

Chairman.

Um if we do a uh parking management or a parking study, six to nine months post-occupancy.

Where do you project that would put you occupancy-wise, like as far as enrollment?

Because if we're if we're talking about, you know, set nine months post-occupancy, you're gonna be, or yeah, nine months post-occupancy, you're gonna be at 20% enrollment.

That's not really gonna tell us a whole lot.

It might be worth it for us to to kick that out a little bit further to allow them to be a bit more enrolled.

We do that for apartments, but I don't know.

I mean, it would take some coordination on our part.

What we probably would do is you'd establish an escrow account, which we would hold until you reach a certain level of occupancy, and then you would have the study conducted, and then we would release the money back to you.

Uh if there's money back, it would be associated with the with the study and surprise here.

That's too much red tape for me.

It could be a while.

For apartments, it's easier because you know generally looking for their final CO and we say, okay, well, you can tie to a percentage of of their allowed enrollment.

Like if they're allowed, what was it, a hundred and a hundred and forty kids, a hundred and forty-five kids, something like that.

If they get to 75% or 60%, then we we do the traffic study.

What did your what are your projections in terms of full enrollment or 18 months to two years is what we the standard is across Goddard schools.

That's for 80 percent.

So I mean it's a longer period.

We'd have to put a reminder in the calendar.

Okay.

All right.

Yeah, I would go with that because it it you have to get to that point to see what happens.

I mean, otherwise it's yeah, we'll hear about it.

I guess if if we do it in the year, and it indicates that hey, there might be because you could probably put a factor on it so that you could project what it'll be at full occupancy.

Yeah, and then we could always address it at that time and say, well, you need to study it in six months or a year from now, if that makes sense to the board.

Yeah, you know, if it indicates that there's issues.

Yes.

Then by then the client tells them they're gonna know where to where to drive and how where to park.

So it's not gonna be an issue.

Um, bring some conditions.

Okay.

Um so I've got uh one prior to building permit, they'll uh submit staff and third party traffic approvals.

That would also include some of the planning items I mentioned on the curb and uh the lighting.

So uh in addition to engineering and fire, etc.

would include planning.

Uh under prior to occupancy, we've got paid public safety impact fee of 1,218 dollars forty-seven cents.

Three, submit state child care license for daycare.

Four, construct all site improvements in accordance with approved plan.

Five, submit certified uh as built site plan.

We'd also do six, submit escrow account for post-occupancy traffic study and third party review.

Under uh seven, we've got uh applicant shall comply with traffic and park and management plan and have special events approved by third party uh traffic consultant.

And uh eight Q and shall not disrupt traffic circulation on or off site.

Uh nine, applicant must operate business so that parking lot capacity is not exceeded.

Uh ten applicant shall submit post-occupancy traffic study to be approved by third-party traffic engineer, uh 12 months post-occupancy.

Uh 11.

All representations made by applicant or agents and all notes on the plan are incorporated as part of the approval.

And I did have another one there, but it doesn't sound like we'll go there.

It was gonna be applicant shall revise circulation and comply with mitigation sketch C or B.

I don't know that that'd be warranted.

I guess you could keep that and say if uh results.

Okay, so we'll just address it through the traffic study.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Yep, thank you.

I do have one question about one of the um conditions with the third-party traffic study for every event.

We have a 15-year lease.

Is there some point that that can be?

Oh, not every event.

Okay.

You would just propose similar to what you did with your drop-off.

You would propose a narrative that says this is how we'll handle it planning.

Yeah, wow, I'm gonna have to call a third party.

Yeah, yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah, thanks for clarifying.

No, we don't want to do that to you.

Any uh anything else from the board here?

That'll take a motion.

Mr.

Chair, I move to grant conditional approval of the local learning application for 142 student day care subject to the 11 conditions as outlined by Mr.

Lafontaine.

Second okay, got a motion to second to grant conditional approval for the uh local learning Goddard site plan with the avoiding conditions.

Um further discussion on that.

Okay, all those in favor.

That's unanimous.

Very good.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Uh next item of uh next item on the agenda is uh um for new business.

That's the HDR LLC Wonder site plan public hearing for 4,000 square foot 17 seat restaurant with conditional use permit for reduced parking at 125 South Broadway.

Is the plan complete?

Yes, the plan's complete.

Mr.

Chair, I move to accept the plan is complete.

Uh all in favor to accept the plan as complete.

That's unanimous.

The butters, please.

The abutters are as follows.

If you're here, please indicate by so they are town of Salem, Simon, Lynn and Wilson, Garma Realty, NEMA properties, State of New Hampshire DOT, HDR hold-ins, linear retail, which is a subject property, and that is all.

Thank you.

Go to the applicant to present the plan.

Good evening, Mr.

Chairman, members of the board for the record.

David Jordan, engineer and landspayer with uh Greenman Peterson here in Salem, and representing the applicant and the property owner this evening.

We have submitted a site plan for a change of use for the retail plaza at 125 South Broadway, known as the Barnes and Noble Plaza.

At the left end of the building, they're proposing to take 4,000 square feet of space, a little less than half of what was occupied by top fitness.

In conjunction with this change of use, we've submitted a conditional use permit request for a reduction in parking, which I'll go over with you in a minute.

So Wonder is a quick serve restaurant.

I don't know if any of you are familiar with with Wonder.

They partner with a number of well-known national restaurants and chefs, and essentially in that partnership, they recreate the dishes of other restaurant of these other restaurants menus through their through their organization.

So if you go onto their website, for example, you pick a cuisine from that cuisine, you pick a restaurant, and then you go to that menu and pick what you want to order.

Their operation is largely takeout, 60% of their of their orders are uh delivery.

The remaining 40% are customer pickup and eat in.

But the eat in is only a very small percentage of that.

Um something on the order of 5% are actually eat in.

And you can see on the plan that Jacob put up on the screen.

This is the proposed floor plan for the space.

That's where the counter, there's a counter for pickup of the orders.

There are 17 seats in here, uh, two public restrooms as required by code.

Um but the 17 seats, uh, there are fifty there are 13 of them are counter seats.

Uh, and there's only two top tables.

Um so it's not a it's not a restaurant uh for yeah, it's not a restaurant that's really set up for in you know inside dining.

Uh it is definitely geared towards pick up and pick up and bring it home.

Um of the 4,000 square feet, only 800 square feet is again front of house, and that includes the two bathrooms.

Um in addition to the the you know the front counter, uh there's uh shelving there for orders to be picked up by either uh people or delivery drivers.

Uh the rest of this uh uh space, 3200 square feet of it is back of house, which is production.

Um production is uh some of the meals are prepared fresh there.

Others are partially prepared off-site, finished on-site.

Um so there that's why there's a very large back of house area uh to support the the the orders uh and deliveries uh that go out of the front of the house.

Uh so again, we have submitted a request for a reduction in parking out here.

Um this board I'm sure is familiar with this site, and there have been similar requests uh very recently.

Um when you look at this one space, 4,000 square feet uh per your zoning.

Uh when you do the calculations based on uh one space uh or yeah, one space per seventy-five square feet, uh 53 parking spaces would be required.

Um I should mention that during uh the busiest time period, which would be the evening dinner hour, there would be uh up to 13 employees uh working at the uh working inside uh during lunchtime hours.

Uh that's reduced down to about I think it's about six or seven.

Uh so it really is just the evening dinner time uh when the uh greatest number of employees are on site, and again that would be about 13.

Um the 53 spaces is required by zoning uh greatly exceeds any requirement, uh actual demand uh for this for this space.

Um when you total up all of the different tenant spaces and what their parking requirements are, a total of 248 spaces are required on site, and uh we are proposing or not we are proposing, but uh there's 182 parking spaces available.

Um I will note for the board that there was a last minute change today that I discussed with Jacob as we were preparing this application for tonight's meeting.

Uh one thing that was overlooked was the need for some additional dumpster space uh for this new tenant.

Um as this board may be aware uh that was a discussion item at uh one of your previous uh one of the previous applications for the same plaza.

Um there is uh a number of dumpsters behind the building.

Uh there were remaining after the last uh go-around, uh two parking spaces back there, kind of sandwiched in between a bunch of other dumpsters.

Uh, we would be removing those two spaces and providing an additional enclosed uh dumpster enclosure back there for Wonders needs.

Uh so when we filed the application, we were we said we had 184 spaces, and I'm telling you tonight it's gonna actually give me 182.

But again, those are two spaces out back that were never used anyway.

Uh so if you like, Mr.

Chairman, I can go through the condition use criteria.

Uh no, no, thank you.

Um if you want to just uh uh just say what you're just representing what the the um conditional use permit that you're uh requesting instead of reading the whole criteria in the letter.

Reference the letter.

Yeah, yeah.

So um per your zoning, 248 spaces are required, 182 spaces are uh available out there.

Um we believe that this uh requested modification it meets the needs of this tenant and all of the businesses on site.

The varying peak operating hours between the different types of businesses uh supports this request.

Uh no exterior changes other than the removal of those two spaces out back for the dumpsters are occurring, so there's no change to the character of the area, pedestrian safety, traffic access, or anything.

Thank you.

Um you want to take us through uh the uh planning department's comments?

Yeah, I'll try to be pretty brief.

You've uh this applicant or this property's been before you for conditioned use permits a few times in the last couple of years.

And here they're just converting that retail space, 4,000 square feet to a 17-seat restaurant.

Um, I talked to the applicant, I said, hey, you could propose more seats if you wanted to.

They said no, our business model is 17, and that's what we we want because they need a minimum of 25 spaces based off of regard, you know, regardless of how many seats they have.

But uh anyway, uh Mr.

Jordan has talked about their business model, it's a little bit unique for restaurant.

Uh a couple things I would just note real quick.

The applicant, I asked them to clarify if there are any changes or proposed, uh, particularly the windows face in 28, um, because that's gonna be back of house.

I talked to Mr.

Jordan uh earlier today, and he said that it's his understanding that there are no changes proposed, but we uh your board might want to either make that a condition or uh at least have uh the applicant make that representation uh on the record.

There would be an impact fee for conversion from small retail to high turnover restaurant.

That would be 1,280 dollars.

They wouldn't have an impact fee uh for public safety because both uses are calculated at the retail rate.

Uh we talked at the last applications about trying to get the dumpsters in an enclosure.

Uh this is when I went out to do a site inspection for um the Great Greek, and this isn't associated with this proposal, this applicant or the um, well, it's this applicant, but not this tenant or the uh Great Greek, it was Barnes and Noble, and I would just ask that they try to figure out a way to I think they've got room in this enclosure, but find a way to get that in that enclosure.

They were also supposed to do some striping in this area.

I would just ask that the applicant add that to this plan and have that done before uh they occupy.

Uh those are really the minor comments.

Uh there was also uh some landscape, and we have a bond right now uh for the work to be completed in the spring because when the Great Greek occupied it was um winter, it was January, so I think it would be uh prudent for the board to reinforce that uh condition so that presumably when they go to occupy the weather will be better and we can make sure that they've addressed those items that they weren't able to in January.

Um if the board's concerns are satisfied, I could give you conditions if and when you'd like.

Um yeah, why don't you give us those conditions?

Uh recommended conditions uh would be to one prior to occupancy submit staff approvals, two pay traffic impact fee of $1,280, three reinstall trees along frontage and any other dead disease or missing landscaping.

Four, relocate all dumpsters to designated enclosures and stripe new dumpster enclosures in accordance with plan.

Five, note conditional use permit for reduced parking on plan.

Six, applicant must operate business so that parking lot capacity is not exceeded.

And seven, all representations made by applicant or agents and all notes on the plan are incorporated as part of the approval.

I had one uh that the board could talk about is where the applicant could probably address, but my assumption is that their employees most likely utilize the spaces to the rear, especially now that you're adding an additional restaurant.

I would imagine that especially uh at the dinner time, they probably park back here.

I don't think that really needs to be a condition unless the board would like, but maybe the applicant could speak to that and then also to the uh facade that there will be no changes.

Okay.

Thank you.

Uh any members of the public like to speak on the plan.

Board comments, concerns, questions, anything that's called.

Uh and Jacob, there is a comment in here about um the lease with the abutting property at Chasers being previously discontinued.

Yeah.

What happened with that?

That was done when they came in for Raph Sydney in 2022.

So at that time they were looking for a conditional use permit for reduced parking.

And uh we had on uh file a uh uh easement or uh sorry, lease agreement for chasers to park vehicles, particularly in that back parking lot, in order to grant the conditional use permit.

I think the applicant actually uh preemptively uh discontinued the lease agreement because they said, hey, we're acknowledging that we're short parking on our site, so we're not gonna uh you know uh uh lease spaces to another site um because presumably they need it for their use.

In Chasers, but Chasers still uses the spaces over at Barnes and Noble.

Uh I would imagine I mean there's a path through there and it's people use the spaces, not chasers.

Yeah.

Well, right, yeah, but typically the people who are visiting Chasers, if there are no spaces at Chasers, they tend to go over to the Barnes and Noble site.

Which is playing into the lack of parking at this site, correct?

Well, it could, you know, um it could be an enforcement, you know, mech thing for the applicant.

Uh my assumption is that if it raises to the level where they need the parking and they're they'd probably enforce it stronger.

Um I'm not necessarily advocating in in any direction here.

I'm just trying to get a general understanding.

Because if these parking spaces that are over closer to chasers are typically used by the people at Chasers, then I I don't think that we really should condition that the employees at Wander park all the way over there because they probably won't be able to.

It's we're gonna end up in uh enforcement conundrum.

Yeah, which I think would be on, you know, the onus would be on the applicant, unless it becomes an issue where which I wouldn't imagine you'd have, but you'd have people parking on 28.

That's kind of when it would become a you know town issue uh in terms of people parking on different private you know sites, uh you know, presumably that'd be enforced at the uh you know, a civil matter.

Uh someone would maybe post signage and put a fence up and say, you know, hey, we don't want you to continue to park here, but um if there's no parking that clientele is gonna stop showing up so they can do something about it.

And I've never ever seen an issue in that parking lot ever.

Understood.

Just ask them the questions.

Okay.

Is it posted back there that says parking for um this uh plaza specifically?

Anyone else can be towed or something like that.

Or to try and keep some of the chases people out.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I've never I mean, I've not seen a problem.

No, I I have I I agree with you 100%.

I go by there every day.

But there's more and more restaurants opening it, which which which means more and more parking where you want them to park in front of the restaurants, right?

So as long as all the employees are parking back there and the the lot is not being consumed by chases, then it's not a problem.

But if it becomes a problem, I mean I think it it's a very simple thing to post to parking just to say, you know.

Right.

And if it becomes a problem, uh linear regional.

I should have mentioned Alan Kelly from Linear Retail, the owner of the property is here.

Um if it becomes a problem, linear retail's obligation is to the tenants, they're gonna they're gonna fix it at that point because they want the parking for their tenants.

That's all right.

And so they it would it would be resolved at that point.

Um Mr.

Jordan.

Good evening.

Um Alan Kelly with linear retail.

I just uh looked up um because I wanted to confirm my memory doesn't serve me correctly, but we do have posted signage stating warning Salem Park Plaza parking only violators will be told just as you enter that section.

So thank you for that.

Mr.

O'Connor.

Ms.

Jordan, uh just two questions.

Can you make representations about the uh the windows facing 28 and the facade any there's you know what they're gonna get?

What are we gonna do there?

Sorry, just so I so I understand the question correctly.

What's the concern?

And I just oh um so these windows will be likely the majority of them will be back of um house.

Uh yes, just so I can confidently say that on the yes, on the windows to the left, they are yes, they're back of house.

So there'll be yes, there'll be some vinyl treatment to close those off from the public.

And stay, but you're just making it so you can't see through the correct.

Yep.

And does that go before the planning departments to Lafontaine?

No, I mean I I think if they apply a film to it, I I think it still accomplishes it.

We want transparency, but it also talks about architectural features.

So I think the big concern would be that they were, you know, they would just put a blank facade there.

Um but I guess if they were to black it out with like a black vinyl treatment, it's uh similar, I guess, to what exists currently.

We saw that at uh Shake Shack.

I think they have some back of house windows and they put a vinyl application over it.

I think it still accomplishes for the most part the the same intent, but um the alternative would be that and I think we saw that at Press Cafe where they didn't put a vinyl application on the windows, they put a wall up on the interior, so from the exterior you would know you wouldn't know the difference, so maybe that could be an option, I don't know.

Um how the applicant feels about it.

I I will say it hasn't necessarily been addressed in their plan set, I don't believe, but um I would imagine if they were given the opportunity to apply a branding of some sort that still provides light through, but um which I think is the intent, correct?

Uh that that would uh well once you get into Brandon it would probably you probably be back here for conditional use permit and we could yeah and we would talk about it at that time, but or I again it it that has never been expressly put to us that this is something they they want or desire.

I just assumed when you mentioned Shake Check have something that that meets meets code um and it was available to them, why wouldn't they take the opportunity?

But um yeah, absolutely we'll work with you in terms of what's acceptable if the intent is to allow light but not to allow visibility.

Um there's I'm sure there's plenty of ways we can address that.

Okay.

I mean I'm comfortable with that if you're comfortable with us working at the staff level.

Yeah.

Uh last question I had for you is are there going to be uh will there be dedicated spaces due to the takeout quick in, quick out, grab and go nature.

Will there be dedicated spaces to wonder?

Yes, so the intent is um we'll have kind of posted signage um that will dedicate for pickup, uh which as you've heard is the majority of business here.

Um so that that will that should address um localizing you know the vast majority of traffic through.

And which spaces will be dedicated?

Um yet we we haven't I would I would prefer uh dedicated spaces to be on the Broadway side.

Um so if uh you if that's to be conditioned, we're we're happy to do that.

Along the building or along Broadway?

Right, right here this this per section of parking.

Okay, yeah.

I I am greatly in favor of that just due to the other the nature of the other tenants in that area.

Make sense.

Okay, we could have them add it to the plan, I imagine.

Great.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Mr.

Voluptier.

Yeah, thank you.

Uh since you have this picture up here, is your your signage you're gonna mimic this one here on both sides of the building?

I'm sorry, say signage your sightings, is it gonna be on the front or both sides of the building?

Uh like it's the intent is I haven't seen a render drawing yet for signage, but the intent would be to get the benefit of that end cap um presence and go on both sides.

We still have to review the sign permit when they submitted it.

I think I think we on the other applications, I can't remember.

Might have just brought out the underpublic matters and said, hey, this is what they've present proposed, and I think you were comfortable with uh Rap City, not Rap City, uh Great Creek and uh B tone.

Anything further from the board on this one?

No, okay.

Ms.

Chair, I move to grant a conditional use permit under 490-701D to allow 182 spaces where 248 are required with reference to the letter from the applicant dated March 3rd, 2026, noting the update to from 180 uh four to 182 spaces.

I further move to grant conditional approval of the wonder site plan subject to the seven conditions as noted by Mr.

Lafontaine.

Second, the motion is second to uh grant the conditional use permit for reduced party and uh grant conditional approval with the seven conditions.

Um favor that's unanimous.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Um next item, last item on the agenda uh second item of new business is the PR sports it LLC site plan with a public hearing for a 25,000 one hundred square foot pickleball facility with six indoor courts, six outdoor courts in the ancillary juice bar and training area with a conditional use permit for reduced parking at 179 Main Street.

Is the plan complete?

Uh Mr.

Chair, the plan is complete uh with the uh note that the applicant is showing currently six outdoor pickleball courts, which were not shown on the variance application, and those are subject to additional CBA approvals.

So is this a conceptual hearing?

Uh it wasn't noticed as a conceptual hearing.

Um you know, I had discussion with the applicant and told them they could proceed to the planning board at risk with the understanding that they would have to get a variance.

I think from uh to some regard, I think I think it only allows you know uh interested party more opportunity uh to participate in the process.

If they were to have a uh concern to raise, they could raise it tonight, and they could also raise it on the uh the 7th, April 7th at the ZBA, and then recommendation tonight regardless would be continuance.

So if that makes sense thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I move to accept the plan as complete as it can be.

Um was in favor to accept the plan.

Um butters, please.

That's unanimous to accept the plan butters.

The abutters are as follows.

If you're here, please indicate by saying so.

They're uh sorry, uh Gudek, Saleme, East Windfield Realty, Saud, Hallahan, Penna, uh, Penna, Stevens, Gagnon Revocable Trust, and Wilkellman, 193 Main Street Realty Trust, and that is all.

Thanks.

Go to the applicant to present the plan.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

So for the record, my name is Doug McGuire.

I'm an engineer with the Dubai Group here representing the owner of the property, Garibedian properties, the Caribbean family, as well as the applicant PR Sports Hooks at LLC, Paul George is with me as well.

So what we have here is an existing site at 179 Main Street.

I'm sure most of you are familiar with the property, it's been there for quite some time.

Uh it's an existing developed site right now with an old mill-style commercial building with supporting parking.

The building was built back in about 1900, so it's been there for for quite some time.

It's had uh multitude of different uses in the building over the years.

The site's approximate approximately five and a half acres.

And so what we're here to propose is a change of use for this for the site.

So as Jacob mentioned, we did go and obtain a variance to allow for a recreational use on the property in the form of pickleball.

We did talk to the board about outdoor courts, the possibility of outdoor courts, but it wasn't explicitly noticed that way, and so I look at that as more of a housekeeping item.

And so I look at that as more of a housekeeping item.

It was certainly discussed, it was discussed with the zoning board.

I don't suspect that they would have any surprise about me mentioning that, but we are going back to them just to clarify that.

So that's kind of how that came about.

Now we have a more specific layout based on moving forward with that.

So we're proposing on the property a pickleball club and supporting to that pickleball club a sports training facility inside a small portion of the building, as well as an ancillary juice bar, which would be primarily for the benefit of the users, but it it someone could go and get a drink as well if they if they wanted to, if they were driving by.

So full new pavement across the entire area, fresh striping of the parking lot, all within the original confines of the original development, but it is all spruced up, brand new looking.

And the main reason for that is to attract new potential tenants, which is here we are.

So the results of that, I think it was done about a year and a half ago or two years ago, I think at the most, when that work was done.

Also, work was done internally to the building so that it was very easily able to be accommodated into new suites or new users with flexibility with utilities and things like that.

So all of that work was done by the owner ahead of the pickleball coming to the to the property, but it's a good thing because it's all basically ready to go for them.

The only thing they're really adding and modifying is as I said, the gravel area outside, everything else will be accommodated inside the building.

They'll utilize the existing parking area as striped.

We're adding in a couple ADA accessible spaces where warranted because of the different uses.

We the juice bar will have its primary door on the front.

So we have you can see uh an ADA space there.

The primary entrance to the pickleball club will be on the side, and so that's why we have a couple additional ADA spaces proposed there, but all we're doing to accommodate that is simply striping out some of that existing parking spaces and utilizing those for the ADA spaces.

We are proposing some landscape trees across the front just to kind of block the pickleball from the street.

It was a suggestion by staff, which is probably a good idea.

So we have some arborvities that we're proposing across the front.

We have a great buffer existing on the property.

And I don't know if it if you do you want to show that graphic, Jacob.

I think I have it up.

So and I have I have hard copies of this.

If any board member wants it in front of them, I'm happy to hand one out.

But essentially what you can see is the green area on the property, that's all existing woods right now.

So that area is not, we're not proposing to modify that at all.

So there's anywhere from I think what 90, 90 plus feet to all the way up to 150 feet of existing tree vegetation on our property prior to we get to the property lines that will buffer some of uh a buffer these court areas from any existing uses or new uses that would be coming forward.

So trying to work within that existing area to minimize any potential impacts.

We are asking for uh parking conditional use permit from you, it should be in your packets.

And the main reason is is that frankly, this doesn't fit very well into any of your existing described uses.

The the closest we could get a pickleball club to was like a health club, like similar to like a workout club, and those are all quantified by square footage, which makes sense.

You know, if you have a large open area and you have the million elliptical machines and the weights and all that, you're gonna have a lot of people utilizing the space.

The unique thing about this is that the vast majority of the space is taken up by the courts, and these courts, all six courts inside, can only accommodate a maximum of four players at any given time.

So just to give you an idea, because the numbers it essentially the your regulations as they're written would require the pickleball facility to have over 225 spaces just for that, and it's based off of the square footage, which we don't we we won't have anywhere near that level.

And to try to just provide a level of comfort, as a calculation, I could say we have 12 total courts.

Six of them are seasonal, so they wouldn't be used year-round.

But let's assume we're looking at the worst time of the year, the busiest day.

You have 12 courts, you have four players per court, you have 48 players.

Let's also assume that they all drive their own car, which is not likely.

Some are going to come together, or you're gonna have some that aren't playing a four-on-four game.

But let's just say we have 48 spaces needed for maximum occupancy of that.

When you back those calculations into these, you're only requiring a maximum of 75 spaces, and we have 90 on site existing.

So we feel that we're more than adequately parked on the property as one of the main attractions of why they you know they like the high ceilings, they like the space inside, and they like that it had the parking availability for their use.

So although it looks like we're asking for a relatively high amount of relief when it comes to the parking, we're really not when you when you actually factor in what the space is being used for and why we're asking for that particular relief.

So I can go into more detail about that if there's any specific questions, but I I think it would be best if I turn it back to the board.

I'll happy to answer any questions that you have on the application.

Anything specific on the plans you'd like me to go more into detail on, happy to do it.

Thanks.

We'll hear from the planning department.

Uh, and then we'll get to the uh go to the board's comments.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Just trying to open up my current.

That's okay.

Um this is the site of the car barn's built in 1919 and uh had variety of uses over the last hundred and twenty-five of some odd years.

Um they are proposing the six pickleball courts indoors, six pickleball courts outdoors.

Um I think the question was asked whether or not this was a conceptual discussion.

I would say that the kind of discussion relative to the outdoor courts, I think, is more of a conceptual, but uh, rest of the aspect of it is uh something that has been approved.

I've received all approvals and would be ready to be acted on by the planning board, but of course they'd like to wait uh for the ZBA's determination uh at their meeting in April.

Uh there are wetlands on site, but there's no impact to the wetlands, they're gonna maintain the existing limits of the pavement and existing setbacks.

Uh there's no floodplain on site, and the applicant hasn't deleted the wetlands, but we've kind of viewed that as okay because they're not changing uh the site conditions relative to the the wetlands to the rear of the site.

There's no uh changes to the exterior elevations.

I think over the last few years, I'm sure the board has noticed that the applicant has uh made significant uh upgrades and renovations to the building facade.

They did so under a building permit to make upgrades, but without any designated tenant.

They now have a tenant, so they've come in to seek approvals for that.

So I do think the applicant should be commended on the job they've done to the particularly to the historic building.

There's no changes to the driveways, no changes to site distance.

They're going to maintain both the curb cuts that currently exist.

One thing that wasn't clear when we talked with the applicant, they weren't sure whether or not they would maintain the existing swing gates that are on site.

I just note that if they are going to will want an Oxbox so that fire can access the rear of the building.

In terms of trip generation, they haven't provided any data on that.

I have sent this to Mr.

Purnow, and I'm also waiting for him just to kind of weigh in on you know whether or not he thinks it warrants any traffic data or if he thinks it it can accommodate the use.

Of course, you've got the condos, which is going to be reviewed by traffic.

Impact fee would be required, and we'd review that uh prior to uh the planning board approving or or acting on this plan.

Um in terms of other items, uh right now there's there's no really parking lot buffer.

You know, generally we're trying to accommodate or accomplish a uh you know, kind of soften, particularly along Main Street, the uh the main street corridor.

We just talked about that on a previous application where we'd like to add some plantins.

Right now they have very uh modest strip, which probably wouldn't be able to accommodate any plantins.

So unfortunately, if they were to do so, they would have to remove some of the asphalt that they've recently put in place.

This is an excerpt from our master plan that was adopted in April though, and it and they've done a lot of good things here, obviously uh, you know, to encourage uh the historic or sorry, historic character of the area, encourage activation of the main street frontage.

So they've certainly done those those with the building.

Uh you know, I just like the board to weigh in and whether or not uh any upgrades to the landscape and particularly along the front of the site could be done.

Uh they have a pretty wide travel aisle.

I think it's about 40 feet, you know, so they would have the ability to uh force stripe it.

I don't think it's striped right now, but they could add a plant in bed here and then narrow this uh travel aisle.

So I'd like the board to weigh in on that.

Um we talked about the ZBA, they granted a variance for 26,320 square foot pickleball facility where health clubs, recreational and sports facilities are not permitted.

They are requesting that conditional use permit.

They've got 90 spaces provided where 263 spaces are required based on membership club with ancillary restaurant, service use, which was the sports training, and then the warehouse use, which is unit C.

And as Mr.

McGuire stated, I would I would agree with him.

I mean we don't have a perfect category to fit pickleball courts into.

Um I think there's somewhat of a limiting factor just based on the fact that you can only accommodate four people per court.

So even if you had people who are you know queued up to to play, presumably um, you know, it wouldn't be the same you'd have at a gym where you have stations throughout the facility, but unfortunately, that was probably the best uh category that we could use in this instance.

We noted that the board could request uh trip generation data.

The calculation is likely conservative for pickleball use.

Uh the floor plan uh appears to show spectator seating.

I talked to the applicant, obviously, pickleball court, I don't believe is uh much of a spectator sport, but uh the applicant I just asked them to clarify that because that would factor into their parking calculation because it would they'd have to uh accommodate uh areas that are designated a permanent seat in, I believe.

Uh we talked about the landscaping and our master plan.

I acknowledge that lighting will likely need to be added to comply with the site plan regulations right now.

I don't think there's really much site lighting, but we'd want um you know a minimal amount of lighting so that they can uh have customers.

I'm assuming they're gonna be open past dark.

Uh the other thing that we would want to talk about in terms of lighting uh is whether or not the the outdoor courts are going to be illuminated.

Um, the other comments we've heard are about hours of operation and and how you know what duration, what times of years those courts are going to be utilized.

The town has um installed courts on uh at Michelle Memorial on Lawrence Road, and we uh uh ultimately had to limit our hours of operation because of feedback we were receiving from the residential abutters.

Uh one thing I note about the signage, there's no signage shown on the plan.

My assumption is that they might uh repurpose or use the existing freestanding sign.

I assume that's likely pre-existent non-conforming.

I looked at the most recent plan, which was 1982, it wasn't shown on there, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt.

It looks like it's been there quite some time.

But we would want the applicant to to show any signage and if they need a conditional use permit, uh, you know, they should probably do that at this point because it's own business office, which has different uh sign restrictions than our commercial industrial districts.

So we just note uh board should consider outdoor courts potential impact impact on residential abutters if variance is granted, hours of operation, light and mitigation, etc.

And uh recommendation from staff tonight is continuous.

We're waiting for staff approvals without standing items to be addressed, and the plan as presented is subject to additional ZBA approvals for the outdoor courts.

Um we did talk with Jim Brown uh about uh need for potential drainage information, so they're working with engineering on that as well.

Thanks.

Any members of the public like to speak on the plan.

Please name and name and address for the record.

Barry Barry DeBorro 3 Wood Merrow Drive Salem.

I'd like to throw my support to this idea.

I am a beginner pickleball player, which I enjoy thoroughly, and uh my age group um specifically likes to play pickleball.

Um I can assure you that nobody is sitting in the stands watching me play pickleball.

There's nobody gonna be watching a spectator.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Anyone else in the public or the board?

Comments.

Thank you, Mr.

Two.

Well, first I'm first of all, I would like to uh thank the uh the owner of the the owners of this building for the major upgrades they've made in this building.

I know they've know they put several thousand dollars into upgrading to make it all up to code, and uh that's that's a big plus for not only the tenants but for the town of Salem.

Uh my only concern with with the whole thing is the uh the letter we got from the ab the abutter to the uh to the left to the west of your uh facility.

Uh you can indicate later on if you don't have to do it right now the the distance between the the pickleball, I'll do a pickleball court and the abutters property line.

If you know what that approximate distance is, I that'll give me a better calculation as to the first building that'll be built on that partial that's good.

So I'm not familiar exactly where they're placing their buildings, but what I can show you is on that graphic, and I thought that would be a question that might come up.

So at closest were 91 feet of woods from our property line.

It and it steadily goes up from there 124 to 150 as you go, and then a little bit beyond that.

So there is a substantial buffer on the property.

Um thing I can mention that I think is is notable to mention is that the technology with pickleball has has evolved because you know there has been.

I mean, I think we've all heard that sometimes people have concerns about the potential sound associated with outdoor pickleball.

And so Pickle Rage is a national group.

They they this isn't like their first one that they've done.

They have built many, many courts, and one of the things that they're doing now is they're implementing new technologies, a softer playing surface that really tones down the volume associated with the pickleball, and these courts outside and the ones inside will have that technology.

I mean, I I don't know the exact technicalities of it.

We do have someone from Pickle Rage here if you want to hear more detail about it.

But the short answer is is that it plays as a softer surface.

It's it's not primarily for noise reduction, but it's a that's a after effect of it.

The primary is for helping with joints and you know, not playing on a solid asphalt surface.

It has some give to it, some you know, and they also utilize different paddles which have different sound, they're not as like hollow sounding with the type.

So all of these things is new technology that have been implemented nationally, and I just wanted the board to know that this particular outfit would be utilizing some of those newest technologies as part of that.

So I think with the buffering plus not having just an asphalt court and having you know the technology that they're implementing, I think there'll be a lot of reduction in some of those concerns.

Yeah.

No, I feel now that I know I know I feel 91 feet, it's plenty of woods and obviously being seasonal, they'll only be playing when the foliage is out and you know, not gonna be playing in the winter where you're gonna get you're gonna lose the leaves and things like that.

Thank you.

So I had and just for the record, uh, Mr.

Pelletry referring to uh uh letter from or email from Mr.

Orso who is gonna develop the townhouse, which on this plan is shown to the planning left.

Right.

Uh so 91 feet is the closest dimension.

Oh, yeah, a question for the applicant.

So uh what is the maximum occupancy that the operator would perceive be at the site when it's fully functional?

So from what I've been told, they they don't expect necessarily that every single court would be you utilized.

So that would be 48 people if you know every single court was being utilized.

Um there will be maybe a little bit of overlap, a little bit of underlap, but I mean, do you have a number you have in mind?

Or I mean I I I'm hoping we'd be maxed out, but I can't open with it, but that would be 48 if we have to.

Excuse me, do you do you mind just uh stating your name?

Paul George Paul George with uh he your LLC, which is PR sports hooks it LLC.

And I guess my other question would be do you in the pickleball world do you host tournaments where there would be more larger numbers of people there waiting for their turn to compete on a an event basis?

We we we would look to the Mr.

George, could you go to please microphone?

We have a recording secretary is not with us.

We would hope to uh I I don't think that there's gonna be major tournaments other than the people who belong to the court to the uh facility.

It's kind of a membership.

So I I can't see bringing people in from all over the country to play in Salem.

So just to add to that too.

So just to add to that, I mean the the interior layout of the building, there is a small congregating area, so if somebody gets there ahead of their turn and they can go to a locker and put their stuff away.

But the courts really do truly take up the vast majority of the space in there.

There's like five, six foot wide aisles in between.

Um, and so and Jacob mentioned there are some seats in that area, but again, those are really intended to be for the players if they need to take a break, have some place to put their water.

But this is not there's no bleachers or grandstands or anything like that.

So it's not a spectator sport in the point where you have this tournament where there's a large group of people watching.

There's just not the space to do that in the in this facility.

Thank you.

Uh and uh question, Jacob.

I didn't say anything in there as it relates to fire or safety related to this, but because it's a uh a place where people are uh competing athletically uh as far as EMS access and and emergency access to the building if there's an injury or or something like that.

Is there anything specific in the plan that accommodates that?

Uh nothing that's been submitted, but we can discuss that with uh Deputy Chief Gallipo and see what his uh thoughts are in terms of emergency response.

Okay, thank you.

Ms.

Sabin?

Yes.

So um what is uh sweet C so sweet C is the last remaining area within the building that's not being occupied by Pickle Rage.

It's about 20 percent of the building, so 80 percent is gonna be Pickle Rage, and right now we're you that's being utilized by the Garibedians as their office warehouse space.

So they are the tenant in that and it is being utilized by them.

Uh we have the parking calculated for that use and the square footage associated with that.

Okay, but nothing to do with the club.

No, it doesn't.

No, it's a it's it's uh basically an an another tenant space.

So he kind of lucked out in there was several potential tenant spaces within this building, obviously a fairly decent sized building.

You could have multiple tenants, but he's benefiting by Pickle Rach taking 80% of the building.

So and the parking on the street, can you push that 10 feet back?

I mean, there's there looks like this substantial room, you know, almost 40 feet of uh swing there, you know, to put some plantings along uh 97.

Well, I mean, uh obviously, you know, it's something that we can discuss.

I can tell you that the owner is not really looking to modify his brand new parking lot that he just did.

He also is looking at it as this is providing him flexibility for future tenants.

That area, although uh a drive aisle of 40 feet seems excessive in this regard, but this space does have overhead door access and could accommodate larger truck vehicles.

So a tenant which would require the use of those items would likely want that added space.

So I mean I think the way he's looking at it is the property has been that way for as long as probably anybody can remember, it's been updated and upgraded as such.

He would have to, you know, saw cut out, restrict, remove, and essentially restripe and reallocate all of those front spaces to be able to make that happen.

And I guess the the question really is that necessary?

I mean, I personally the the the benefit of that building is it it's a very unique good-looking building, in my opinion, the trolley building.

You know, looking at the front of that, I don't think it's an eye sore that needs to be camouflaged by landscaping in necessarily in any way.

We are camouflaging, as I said, the courts.

So those will be kind of walled off by a wall of green uh adjacent to the road.

But as far as how it how it looks as you come up and approach it, I think it looks pretty good.

So I mean, obviously, if the board's decision is to you know require that, then that's something that we'll have to do.

But the owner's preference would be to not do that.

I'm sure it is, but I would disagree with that.

I think the aesthetics of the building, it's it's it could look beautiful instead of just looking like what it looks now, just with some basic low, I'm not talking about trees, shrubbery plantings, you know, a 10-foot buffer uh would make it look significantly better from the town's perspective, I would think.

Okay, uh, from my perspective, anyways.

Um, so I would I would strongly suggest um doing that.

I don't like parking on the street.

I think it looks it looks 1940-ish, okay, and it's something that's not appealing for anyone driving by.

I mean, it really isn't.

In fact, most shopping plazas have buffers like that for that specific reason.

So I think that's an important aspect um to it.

I don't disagree with what you're saying.

All I would state is that this is a pre-existing building, a pre-existing parking lot that you know has a certain level of grandfather right to having it what it is.

So I mean, I think I obviously if this was new construction, you would do that.

Is that accurate?

I mean, can we say that that I that we want some form?

I mean, I think we do that regularly, yeah.

So why wouldn't we do it now?

Well, he's right that obviously it's a pre-existent site, but you're right either here for a change of use.

Exactly.

That's my point.

It's an opportunity for us now to do that where it wasn't before.

So it's a change of use.

So we have the right to say, well, okay, let's beautify it a little bit.

Not a big deal, but I think big enough a deal that that for me it might be a game changer.

Yeah, I mean we routinely do that.

We did it on a previous application.

I mean, we're we are trying to enhance the main street corridors.

Exactly.

Um, I wouldn't necessarily you know, I think you're you're on point one because you got utility pools involved, and two, because the building does look very attractive.

Yeah, that you know what we're I think we would be trying to be accomplished is trying to soften the row of parking adjacent to the right of way.

And that's it.

That's my only uh real comment here.

Ms.

Kellson.

Um to Mr.

Savis' point, um, throughout the the master plan process, which was a year and a half long process, um, we had focused on a lot of the the downtown area and then also the connection over to the storic district, which this falls right in the middle of those two.

Um but the point being was being able to connect them and to make the depot more of like a quote unquote downtown area area than it currently is.

Um so with that we would want to make that sort of like a walkable area and like a an aesthetic area to for it to be a downtown um you know ten plus years from now as we sort of work towards getting there.

Um but I think in doing that that allowing space for landscaping along the roadway here would would make a huge difference in the aesthetics of this strip of of Main Street.

Um the I had a few other questions.

Um the plan you had indicated there were three main entrances.

Um there was one at the at the east one at or there are two along the front of the building, uh one at the back of the building that were all labeled as pickleball facility main entrance.

Um it would be helpful if there was a a main and secondary entrance that was noted rather than three main entrances, unless they are truly three main entrances.

It may it may be helpful from like a uh site logistics perspective for us to be able to understand that a bit better.

Sure.

I I think and I can clarify this on the plan.

The only and main entrance of the pickleball facility will be the double door that you see that's closest to the handicapped ADA spaces on the side of the building that we labeled.

We did show other doors, but those are just existing doors, maybe emergency doors.

Um, so we can clarify that that's the only entrance.

Like, for example, there's a there's a single door in the front that enters right into one of the pickleball courts.

That's not intended to be able to be open to the public.

Sure.

But obviously for EMS purposes, which someone mentioned, that could be utilized.

Yeah.

I it I think it just it would be helpful to know for us, you know, when someone pulls into the park, someone pulls into the parking lot, where's everyone filtering in in and out of primarily um which of these three main entrances is truly the main entrance?

Um, I think that may be helpful.

Um we can clarify that.

The programming for the training area, what do you envision that space being used for?

So it's it's a very specific use, a very popular use that we thought was complementary to this type of project.

And essentially what it is is it's going to be a relatively small turf field that would be utilized for specialty one-on-one type sessions with uh whether it's say someone s practicing soccer or lacrosse, they would have an instructor and they would be able to get a one-on-one session.

What these guys were finding is that that was a very common item that there isn't really accommodations for for certain trainers to be able to have one-on-one time, particularly in the colder months, to be able to have that.

So that's the intent of that.

So there would be one instructor, one or two students that would be utilizing the space.

I think we allocated four parking spaces within our what we believe it would take as far as that.

I think it's allocating 15 or something based on the square footage based on the requirements again.

But that's really what it would be for.

It would not be for playing games or large events or anything like that.

That's the purpose of it.

Okay.

Um that's helpful.

And I was definitely looking at it from a you know a parking perspective.

What would the parking needs be for that specific area?

What sort of programming did you envision there?

Um, and then what was the I know you had said you didn't you didn't necessarily um have the information about the specific material that's being used in the outdoor courts.

Um I think it would be helpful to understand is it a pervious or impervious surface because it's currently gravel, that's kind of like a semi-pervious, like it water does drain through it not super well, but it it does it would be helpful to know how you know how the drainage would be impacted uh with the new court material.

And you don't have to answer that tonight if you don't have it.

Well, so I do know that level is that it is an imperfect impervious surface.

Um the surface is essentially, I mean, it is to start an asphalt surface.

It's just that the additional treatments that are put down, the layering of the epoxies and the finishing surfaces are what provides this cushioning effect on top.

So, but it is ultimately an impervious surface.

We've accounted for that.

We have a grading and drainage plan, a very simplistic one, but what we're able to do is, and I can talk just a little bit about this just so the board members understand.

So the existing parking lot right now drains into the gravel area, and there's two existing catch basins that collect the gravel area and the parking area.

So what we're proposing is to construct the courts, but we've given specific grading tolerances, and we've modified the exact location of those existing basins just slightly so that they fall in an area that the courts can drain to, so that the entire drainage condition on the site, the existing parking and that gravel area still have the same matching drainage flow patterns.

So we are creating that and making sure that that stayed consistent.

That's something that I did put together a drainage memorandum to kind of explain that and discuss that.

That's something I'm gonna have to follow up with on with engineering, but we're confident that essentially you have a working site that's been there for a number of years.

We're actually decreasing overall the impervious area, so therefore you have a working site that if is only going to work at least as good as it always has, if not a little bit better.

So that was kind of our mindset.

We made sure that all of those courts can be designed to their tolerances that they want, as well as collecting that drainage.

Okay.

Um then hours of operation.

So hours of operation, and and I I can get back to one of Jacob's questions on lighting.

We are not intending to light the courts.

So it would be a I mean, I guess that's a benefit for any butters that they know that there's not going to be high poles necessarily from a lighting perspective as a concern.

Um there is all fairly new lighting on site.

The the site is illuminated very well.

It's the reason we don't have a lighting plan or something that you would typically see from an engineer such as myself, is that these are existing uh existing fixtures that are on certain poles.

Uh but if you go out there and then maybe I can provide the board some or staff some photos.

I mean, it is very well lit.

There really was like no concern about the viability of of people coming and going as far as that goes.

And so we can maybe provide some information on that, but that's why we didn't propose a lighting plan for the existing facility because it is well lit in its existing condition.

We're not doing it for the existing the existing courts.

So is that to say that the existing courts would be operated while the sun is up, or is that to say that it it may happen after sundown being lit by what's currently lighting?

We were thinking something along the lines of like I mean, there's going to be a limitation, seven o'clock to seven or seven to seven or something like that, because that's really the the most you're gonna comfortably the hour.

How do you not know the hours of operation?

You brought it you're bringing us the uh uh facility here.

How do you not know the hours of operation?

Anybody remember you keep saying thank you think it's it's there is it seems like there's a lot of unknown here.

Which part is unknown?

It's just the hours I think there's gonna be this many people.

I I think the biggest is going to be this much lighting.

Just uh, if you have certain concerns, I'm happy to address them.

Uh there's not a think on the lighting, it's just that we don't provide a lighting plan for existing lighting.

So we can provide you with photos, the someone can take a make a site visit from staff or whatever you'd like us to do.

But I I mean that's that's how I'm trying to answer that question.

Jake is a photometric plan required for this checklist, right?

Uh it isn't a slight plan checklist.

The board could request it, but Mr.

McGuire, you have uh site lighting on site currently.

You have uh uh like freestanding poles and wall packs?

There's wall packs, there's there's flood lights off of the existing utility poles, and I can basically call all those out as locations.

I just can't provide photometric data from that because those lights don't provide that from our engineering software.

Okay, yeah.

We certainly want them out of the plan so we can see those, and I just didn't see them on the yep, I can detail that on this go.

So so the hours of operation are 7 a.m.

to 7 p.m.

That's correct.

Outdoors, sorry.

Well both.

So out indoors, people do like to get up a little earlier.

Seven is that seven to ten doors.

Yes.

Mr.

George's indicated.

If if Mr.

George were to get up to answer it.

Hours of operation on the indoors would be seven to ten.

Seven a.m.

to ten p.m.

Correct.

Okay.

And the hours on the outdoor operation would be when the sun's up, but it's going to be less at some times, but it'll never be more than seven to seven.

And do you have any other existing locations?

I do not.

Okay.

This is our first for it's a franchise.

Okay.

Pickle Rage has many locations.

Sure.

But this one, this one is uh is our first location.

Do you do you get support from the parent from uh Pickle Rage?

I certainly hope so.

We're paying them for it, so I hope they have a lot of support.

Okay.

Okay.

I'm good.

Uh Chris.

Uh I think it's a great use, and I'm sympathetic to a small business owner that is still trying to figure it out and getting some feedback from the franchisee and you know how the thing's gonna be run.

Um I think when you come back, I think the biggest question or one of the questions that we're gonna have to answer is just the noise.

Um I suspect there's enough tree line, but I you know I would be prepared for a butters to have some concerns.

Uh not necessarily the paddle or not necessarily the um uh the actual court as you've spoken about, but it's people yelling, you know.

It's uh I'm sure not the uh resident that came to speak would would never scream in excitement.

Uh but that you know it I think it's those noises, I think it's you know, crowd noise, you know, if anybody's you know watching those types of things, and I would just be prepared to do that.

I'm I'm glad to hear lighting takes a huge you know, not having lighting, you know, takes a huge burden off you know, whenever we we see a next.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, Mr.

Saber.

Is there a second floor on this building?

No, no.

Hold on.

There is in this oh, there is well in the main portion of the pickleball area is the high free standard.

Jacob, thank you.

The actual picture.

Like uh the second.

So it looks like there's a second floor on the left hand side.

Is there not?

Just the front space.

That's that's correct.

That's what that's the area that the juice bar is going to also utilize.

So that's where their front door is on the first level, and on the second level, there was going to be a handful of seating in that level.

How big is that space?

It looks pretty big.

Uh 1300 volt.

The total the total for the juice bar area is 1300.

We have it listed on our plan.

It was 1358.

That includes the second floor.

Correct.

So is there anything else on the second floor?

No, it's just um uh Corey Garrett and uh the other the uh the second floor is just a mimic of the is just like the first floor, there's just a set of stairs.

So, what is the square footage of that second floor with the six windows facing it uh that um pretty much that divided by two?

So thirteen whatever that is divided by two, and then because the the see the left side is a bump out there that's not there, it's obviously not a second floor on that part of it.

So the second floor on the the second floor um just mimics the the first floor there, and that's so what is the square footage?

Look around I would say about 600 square feet.

700 600 square feet.

That looks a lot bigger, that's right.

Can I talk to the plan?

Mr.

George, could you grab a microphone though?

Because our recording secretary is not here.

Well, we are committing different questions.

Okay.

These windows here.

No, no.

Okay.

These here?

Yes.

Okay.

This here only goes back twelve feet.

And then this in the back is the is the the courts that go all the way up.

So that's only that's only from this to the back wall is eight feet.

Okay.

All right.

That's all.

That's all I wanted to know.

I know.

I thought I knew what we were asking.

It was going to be about you know four.

No, no, I thought I knew what you were asking.

It looks like it goes forever because you see the building, but the courts actually come up all the way in the back.

This is only from front wall to back wall is eight or nine feet.

So thank you.

That's helpful.

Thank you.

Okay.

Is that uh clear?

Anything further from the board here?

Just in terms of direct feedback from this wall thing.

I mean, I don't see a need for traffic study on this.

Okay.

I will you know defer to others, but I just my own opinion that you're looking for some feedback there.

That's my own.

Okay.

I do one thing.

Can we condition this with the green edge on the front?

Uh well, you're not gonna act on the plan tonight, but I think the applicant heard the feedback from some of the members.

Right, because I'm telling you now that's a gonna determine my vote.

Mr.

May, Mr.

Chairman.

Keep in mind that they're between the parking lot and the sidewalk, there is approximately three feet of grass area right there, which can be enhanced uh without without uh interfering with the parking lot whatsoever.

If you want some kind of fee would be a pretty narrow plant in bed, but um I I think the secondary thing too is that it it also serves a public safety purpose, right?

I mean, right now we have parking, I think there's 28 spaces or 24 spaces, you know, that are immediately adjacent to the right of way with zero.

That three feet is actually I think in the right of way.

So they've got pavement really just up to the edge of the property line and you know, so public safety and an aesthetics.

Um I found this picture and I wanted to show it just because I don't know.

I would like to waste the board's time, I guess.

But um, I think it's great what they've done to the building, and so I think it's uh you know, I think it'd be a good maintenance.

Fantastic.

Yeah.

Anything further from the board?

How how many people are you it's uh uh expecting in here?

Um like full operation you're saying when if everyone's a whole facility with the with the suite C with the sports training area with the soccer facility and the juice bar and the um in the pickleball courts.

So I can talk about that from the we have that broken down in the in the uh parking calculations.

So we have are expecting four employees for the pickleball facility.

And as we said of maximum occupancy, we wouldn't anticipate more than 48 people at based on the number of courts.

The sports training area, we had a maximum of three participants.

Is this sports train is the sports training area, the soccer facility the same thing?

Yes, okay.

Yes, it was asked Jacob had mentioned that that should be clarified, and so we're that might not be on your plan, it will be on the one that is submitted back to you, but we're now referring to it as a sports training area.

Okay, and so that would have three participants and a trainer, so four parking spaces anticipated for that, and then the suite, the remaining suite.

This is directly from your requirements, one space per employee, and assuming two employees and one space per company vehicle, and then one space per thousand, so that amounts to six, seven, eight, nine vehicles for that space.

And that's that's the seventy-five.

That's where we would get to 75 max.

And we talked about it in our conditional use permit, that's where that number came from.

Okay, thanks.

One thing we could do in no Mr.

Narcassa that he was okay, and I saw some other board members indicate, but we could just ask the applicant if they have trip generation data.

I wasn't familiar with the fact that this is a national franchise, and I imagine they probably have some of that data readily available.

That'll be helpful for next time.

Thanks.

Um, anything further from the board?

No.

Okay.

Thank you.

Oh, excuse me, the public.

Okay.

May I?

Mr.

Chairman, may I defer time to member of the public?

John Qell.

Good evening now.

David LeCroix, 442 North Main, uh Salem.

Um we have a unique opportunity, the very historic building, and um I just wanted to caution the the the board.

Um digging your heels in real hard on uh upending the the parking situation, the parking lot uh to accommodate planting.

May not be a great idea.

This is a historic building.

Been around for over a century.

And a lot of congratulations go to the property owner for making some upgrades and getting things into shape.

The real showcase in the beauty of this property isn't actually is the architecture and the structure.

Not necessarily the planting that happens to be on the street.

And I think any obstruction from the street to the view of the building is not a great idea.

So the more we can do to keep that visible and generate some interest and have some diversity in the view in the in the look and aesthetic of commercial properties in town.

I think that would be better.

I like the idea.

But this particular case, I think showcasing the architecture of the uh of the property is of uh paramount importance as opposed to large plantings.

Thank you.

And to clarify, I had said not trees.

Yep.

Not to block the building.

Simply green space.

Right.

And thank you.

The the caution on that was uh you know, asking asking somebody to cut back ten feet uh to do it.

Kind of a kind of costly and uh you know I I don't know how much revenue pickleball brings in to be able to start upending the paving.

That's our that's brand new.

But thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um board?

Three employees.

Um chair, I move to continue.

Okay.

I guess the only question I have based on that feedback, yeah.

I I mean I certainly heard from certain board members.

I mean, is the consensus of the board that you'd like to see that because I just want to come in with what you guys want to say.

I don't think the board's gonna make you cut the cut your pavement and restrict the pavement to move it back to put some plantings there.

You don't think so?

No.

Okay.

No, absolutely not.

Um I I definitely I don't necessarily want you to to cut back pavement, but I think it would make it would go a long way if there were plantings in that area.

Okay.

We'll see what I have a landscape architect on staff.

I can't even if it involved cutting back a smaller portion of it than ten feet, but something to be able to add plantings there to add to the aesthetic, um, and to be able to help with a bit of a buffer between the roadway and the parking lot would go a long way with me.

Last thing for me.

Um I think the um I hear the resident uh great feedback.

Thank you.

Um I think one option that I'm not even proposing, but one option that gets you middleway would be uh planting bollards of some sort that would sit at the end of the area.

I think they're you know what the challenge for us is the master plan that everyone voted on and you know approved, does want to see some sort of greenway, you know, in that space, and I don't think have creating some greenway space there um is gonna take away from the visual aesthetics of the actual building.

Um, but I also think it's inconceivable for you to cut out twelve twelve feet of of asphalt that you literally just laid down uh anticipation of this.

So, you know, are there bollards?

Are there some other creative ways that you are a that you might be able to do it without creating too much expense?

Thank you.

Great, thank you, Mr.

Pillitz.

Thank you.

And as to the abutter on the west side of the property, I think you uh the applicant has uh uh answered all the questions.

I want to just make that in order to your hours of operation for the outdoor courts at approximately 7 a.m.

to 7 p.m., which is feasible, and there'll be no lighting on those fourts.

And his other uh concern was the months of operation.

It'll be summertime only, no winter.

We can add that as a note to the plan for clarification too.

Good.

Thanks.

Yeah, only a note to the time.

Thank you.

Got a motion and a second to continue those all those in favor.

That's unanimous.

Thanks.

See you next time.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Are we could just continue to a date certain or uh your notice for uh meetings?

Oh, that's right.

I forgot you guys do that.

Yeah, thank you.

Do we have public matters?

Uh Mr.

Chair, we do have items of public matters.

First being a request from Mr.

Young at 15 Charlie Lane.

Um I guess not really so much a request, but more so kind of uh for your information.

You approved the plan with an impact fee that was associated with a warehouse of 7800 square feet and an office use of 2,000 square feet.

Earlier today, they submitted a uh email stating that the true building area is 7500 square feet, which consists of 720 square feet of office and 6,780 square feet of warehouse.

That would drive their impact fee down over what you approved.

Um so I guess I just wanted to bring that to you because when they submit the impact fees, it's going to be for a lesser amount than what was on the condition of approval.

I started to do a table and some calculations, but it was sent to me uh earlier, I think today or this afternoon, and wasn't able to do it.

But it would obviously reduce that that impact fee for them because the square footage has has uh you know not significant well, I guess significantly relative to the approval uh decreased.

I think what I would require is a floor plan just to show uh how each unit is configured.

I think what happened was they had mezzanines that were supposed to be mezzanine offices, and they ultimately did not construct the mezzanine offices.

Uh Mr.

Young's also requested a uh credit for the prior prior use, which is a single family dwelling and a manufactured home.

Uh I do think that looking at the ordinance that's uh reasonable uh in the case of new development created by conversion or modification of an existing use, the impact fee shall be based upon the net increase in the impact fee calculated for the new use as a as compared to the impact fee that was or would have been assessed for the previous use.

Uh we do that routinely for commercial properties.

We don't do it as often for conversion from residential to um to commercial, but Mr.

Young was really excited when he uh when he found it and uh noted that he was uh you know other people may not have been aware, but so I guess I wanted to let you know that based on all this information, their impact fee is gonna be for a lesser amount than what you uh cut condition part of the approval.

Um I guess I want to just to have that on the record um so that you're aware of it.

So it's just the mezzan mezzanines aren't being built.

Uh Mr.

Young, is that correct?

Confirm that William Young, property owner.

Yeah, so the mezzan originally there was gonna be uh office built and they want a mezzanine above it, and we we didn't do the mezzanines and the extra space above it.

Okay.

Uh so it so it's not that big anymore.

All right.

And then the intent would be for the mezzanines to not be constructed, correct?

And if they are constructed, then the impact fees would be paid.

That would be applicable if if we did that in the future.

Yeah, so I think one thing we would probably do is we would want because I I believe the build building permit, and I could be mistaken, but I think the built-in permit was issued under the original approval, so we would just want uh you know a revised floor plan that uh codifies the fact that you know the plan does not include any mezzanines.

Um so that one uh pretty straightforward.

This next one is for an application you recently approved, um March 12, 2026.

The board voted to grant site plan approval for 92 Lowell Road.

Uh the applicant here is looking for a temporary permission, I guess.

That property is under agreement to be purchased by A Plus Paven, a local paving company.

A plus intends to park their equipment and vehicles on the property at prom purchase.

This would include dump truck, dump trucks, tag along trailers, pavers, rollers, etc.

I guess the concern from the staff level is that our site plan regulations do say it that no building permit may be issued.

Um site work permit must be obtained from the chief building official prior to commencing any work on site for which the site development plan approval is required.

So I I think under this, we wouldn't really have a building permit.

They would maybe temporarily store the vehicles.

I think they currently have them at Holiday Inn and they'd store them here, but potentially without the benefit of the uh improvements that you you approved, right?

The uh landscape and the mitigation, the screening for the residential ablutter, the driveway, which is subject to New Hampshire DOT approval.

So those are the concerns with the staff level.

You have uh approved some temporary uh occupancy of certain not occupancy, temporary storage, I guess, at certain areas.

But this is a little strange too because it they're also subject to a variance because it's zoned rural, but wanted to bring the request to you.

They submitted it.

Um that property.

Um we've sent um two or three violation notices probably in the last year or two.

And are there any related to the uh parking that was being done on site that we've told them numerous times to stop doing?

Um yes, we sent a violation notice for uh commercial equipment being stored on site uh without necessary approvals.

I think that was from a tenant across the street, uh is what they indicated.

Uh and then we uh sent another violation notice for uh they were using the site to for snow storage, off-site snow storage from commercial properties and so those are the two.

Excessive snow storage being put in a wetland buffer.

Um I imagine that was probably clearing and filling in a prime wetland.

Yeah without any kind of uh permit.

Yeah, yeah.

Excessive clearing of the trees.

Can I add something if you don't mind?

Wait a minute.

Um I mean I wouldn't grant any kind of relief like this for this property, but uh I don't know how the board feels I wouldn't give them anything either.

I'm not inclined to do anything.

Neither am I.

It's also there's also today there's also from the pilings of snow, the approximately 12 foot piles of snow that are melting.

It's uh uh portion of uh trash is being accumulated on the property as that snow melts that would notice today.

Yeah, the conservation commission, one of the recommendations was that they install erosion control.

Uh you know, kind of actually I think your condition reinforce their recommendation to install erosion control uh proximate to the wetland as soon as possible.

And I imagine that it's probably pretty hard to access the wetlands to install those silk socks because of the sheer amount of snow on the site uh would prohibit the access to the wetlands.

Um again, you know, it we're conservation and I understand why, but it conservation is asking them to install silt socks to prevent anything from going into the wetlands while the snow is melting and going into the wetlands and the wetlands can't be accessed because of the sheer amount of snow.

So again, I am not inclined to do any favors, grant any any relief.

Okay.

I'm not please.

I just want to add one thing, Ian Ainsley, engineer for Miser Brown.

I was the engineer for this application.

Shake up, please.

Um can you hear me now?

Yes.

I just want to say that violations to date.

This property is going to transfer to a new owner.

And the new owner is asking for this permission to store their vehicles on there.

So I understand what you're saying, but this is a new entity that is going to own the property.

And I just, you know, should they be punished for the previous owner's actions.

I mean, in my opinion, where was where was the initiative when the people across the street were allegedly parking on his property?

There was there is no action, seemingly in my mind, no action being taken from the current property owner to prevent those people from continuously parking there after we continuously kept saying stop doing it, stop doing it.

Why are we going to allow a new owner to then come in?

Who who was going to stop the new owner from potentially going road and doing whatever they want?

I'm I contacted the people across the street multiple times.

And multiple times they vacated it, multiple times I caution taped across the front, and they just went in there again.

I mean, I can't go over there every single day.

Jacob had sent levitas, Jacob had had emails from any AB's office.

Like, I mean, it's it's anywhere in in town.

Like, I mean, you're you go back to your previous meeting.

People at Chase's park over at Bonza Noble.

Like you can't police every pocket lot.

There is like it the difference with chasers is that there is a there was an agreement at one point in time.

I'm just saying you can't.

There wasn't an agreement about clearing a wetland and putting off site snow storage into a wetland.

Um I'm not in favor of granting any relief.

I think I get the sense from the board, I guess, for the consensus.

Yeah, yeah.

Get the building permit.

Okay.

Um, in addition to that, uh 445 South Broadway.

This is a uh house that's associated with a Donobedian farm.

It's pre-existent non-conforming in that it's a uh single family residential in the commercial district on uh South Broadway.

Uh property owner there uh states that he splits woods for himself and uh often has excess wood and would like to uh uh distribute that off site, kind of wholesale production.

So it's a little interesting if he was in the residential district, he'd likely need a variance for this use.

He's allowed to do this activity in the commercial district.

Um, but I guess I just wanted to bring it to you so that you were aware and that we kind of codify the process.

Seems to be pretty reasonable.

I imagine the property historically has been used for similar uh uh things, but I just guess wanted to um bring it to you, get your consensus because it's a relatively unique situation.

Did he I guess how how did this come up?

Did he come in and ask for like a business plan?

Uh no, no, he uh came in for the front counter and said this is what I want to do.

And I mean you're you're right, he very well not that I'm suggesting people do this, but he very well could have just did it and not asked an action.

Following the rules.

But yeah, he came in and he said, you know, this is what I'd like to do, any issues with it.

Um so unique.

There's probably not too many uh you know residential holdovers on 28.

But uh where is this on south broadly with the surrounding which is uh Donabidian farm, this is Birch's Academy to the north.

That's a trampoline park.

Oh, sorry, that's a trampoline party.

That's the trampoline park.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Oh yeah.

The Thai food uh toys or as well I'll let uh Mr.

Brown know that he's he's okay to proceed.

Yeah.

Uh this is 492 South Broadway, kind of in the same area.

Um Smoker's Lane is located here.

Um, so to orient you, uh this property.

I always forget the name of this street here.

I don't know if anybody is uh but anyway, um on the corner here.

This is Seasons Gas Station, Popeyes to orient you.

And uh applicant here, yeah, again, I just kind of wanted to bring it to you for your consensus.

He wants to do coffee uh production and sales, so it wouldn't, you know.

I'd asked him uh, you know, if is he trying to kind of make it more of like a coffee shop and then have uh convenience store ancillary to it.

He's already got um kind of a convenience store, I guess, with the primary product being tobacco products.

So he'd have a walk-up counter where you could order coffee to go.

Um we've looked at some retail uses in the past.

I think about dominoes, there's uh bakery that you know, as long as they don't have seat in, we've kind of said it's continue uh it's a continuous use of uh retail or continuation of the retail use.

Uh wanted to bring it to you and see if you were okay with him adding a walk-up uh counter for uh coffee and then coffee production.

They sell cigarettes in there, they sell cigarettes, yep.

Uh uh, no seed and no cooking.

They sell soda, cigarettes, candy, chips, ice cream.

So where where is this?

Where is it?

This is like right on the line.

Rodal right across the street for that.

Right.

It's almost on the on the line of uh Massachusetts lines.

Yeah, right across from Popeyes, yeah.

Yeah, I just wanted to bring it to you.

I mean, I told him I assumed you'd be okay, but I guess the concern would be that you know it's a Duncan's and now you know, which isn't the case here, it's uh just a walk-up counter, and I think we would use it as a retail use, not a restaurant use, which would constitute a change of use.

Yeah, it seems it seems like a convenient store at a gas station.

Right.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Well, I like I like bringing you guys the easy ones.

Uh the only concern was when that since it's gonna be a store, not a restaurant.

I remember when the it was a company uh kick in place was gonna go in there.

Right, that was denied, yeah.

And the butter across the fence on the other side, it was adamant.

He came over yelling and screaming and everything.

So I think I think that was a restaurant use, and I do think you're right.

I think it was denied ultimately, but if I remember correctly.

But um, and that's why I just wanted to ensure that I this would help codify it so when he comes in to amend his building, we understand that he's not putting uh you know full like a drive through, not that he'd have to put that on here, but um you know it's gonna be really ancillary to convenience store.

Yes, yeah.

Um I think that's it.

Are you uh are you here for an item?

Are you just here to observe?

That's great.

Second meeting in a row.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What's that?

You want to join the board?

Hill crest, that's right.

Yeah, I think I always forget that.

But yeah, we're looking for the water.

You want to join the board?

No.

Okay.

Um for segmentary.

Well, we appreciate you being here.

Yeah, we do have a vacancy for alternative.

Um I believe that's it unless I'm forgetting anything.

Yeah, we just have to have a discussion on uh officers because uh police cable that's what it I don't want to cost drug.

Once again, David LaCroix 442 North Maine.

Um there was uh I was observing at the uh town council meeting last week.

And uh there was a a lot of discussion about uh some incidents at Tuscan Village, some uh a lot of police activity in the neighborhood of 1800 calls last year.

And a topic came up uh regarding a pledge that was made by the developers of of that uh commercial property.

Uh somehow uh at the beginning of the process of developing uh there was a pledge made of three million dollars to the town to help offset some of the increases that were expected in in public safety, uh police and fire protection.

And it was brought up by one of the uh counselors that uh only one third of that has been um has been paid out to the town.

So in the meantime, uh it seems as though the taxpayers are kind of foot in the bill.

Uh and not sure that's right.

And so I had words uh after the session was over uh with the town manager and a couple of the counselors, and um just asked, you know, hey, what are we doing to collect?

Why is this an outstanding balance?

And you know, we're just coming off of a fairly contentious budget process for this this coming fiscal year and a tight election, and a lot of people upset with their tax rates going up, but this two million dollars still left on the table from a development that continues to get approvals uh and continues to build and add to their development without having met their obligation or at least intent uh to pay.

So I didn't know where where the planning board stood on that and uh would like to know, and I'm sure several people from the public might like to know.

Um briefly, but uh what uh is that an agreement or something?

It was a was it was it wasn't a condition on anything, was it?

No, I think the applicant at one point in time said that they would like it to, but we you couldn't really tie it.

It's like a donation or something, right?

Yeah, so he uh uh Tuscan has pledged three million uh dollars contra three million dollar contribution to public safety.

They have uh submitted one million of that of those funds.

And then on top of impact fees, on top of impact fees, property taxes that are that are paid.

So this is not a bill from the town that is being imposed on Tuscan.

This is a voluntary donation.

So it was a pledge at the beginning.

Uh no, it's well after the develop there was a thirteen million dollar development agreement that was done.

That's all that's outside of the taxes and the um the impact fees.

So this was I this was uh what's no it's okay.

It was um under the 20, I believe 2020 maybe master plan update.

Um that was for some of our additional residential development, I think, when they converted some of the senior, they had senior age restricted housing.

Uh when that application came in, the applicant stated uh that they would make a contribution of three million dollars.

They pledged it, but it's not tied to any uh site plan, it's not tied to the MOU.

Um with like that you just mentioned the MOU, I think was recorded in maybe 2017, 2018, somewhere around that time frame.

So it's a development agreement, right?

Yes, exactly.

A memorandum understanding and it was not included in that.

The applicant uh pledged to to make the contribution under that master plan process.

So there's not like a trigger at the planning board, you know.

I wouldn't see a site plan and say, hey, you need to pay the million dollars.

It's uh it was really something that they pledged above the impact fees above their tax assessment to the town.

And one other um sort of observation about Tuscan that I that I would like to make is that they are nowhere near close to done.

Like there's still quite a long way to go.

True.

So they they may have paid one third, and I don't know where the actual percentages on you know their their construction completion to date.

60 percent, maybe 65 percent.

Yeah, so I mean, I guess if you wanted to to tie the percentage of that contribution to the percentage of construction completion, sure.

We're probably getting close to that, but that's not a representation that was made by the applicant.

They didn't tie this donation to anything.

This again, the donation is is up and above any taxes or impact fees that they would pay that is a bill from the town to Tuscan.

This three million dollar donation is not a bill from the town.

So the first the first million that was given and greatly appreciated, I'm sure the town is appreciative, but does because it's not a bill, uh where does that million dollars go?

I'm sure the town is appreciative, but does because it's not a bill, uh where does that million dollars go?

Like that that's not something that we determine on the planning board.

It's in the trust fund.

It's in a trust fund?

So it does does it doesn't do anything to the tax base.

Nope.

Doesn't do anything to until somebody decides they want to spend it a particular way.

It was entitled for uh yeah, entitled for safety infrastructure.

Okay.

So all right.

So I guess that's the answer.

Then there's there's no uh I guess he's under no ob because it's a donation, he's under no obligation to pay any more.

Well he hasn't even completed the project.

I mean it's only 65% done.

Discussion.

No, but it's not tied to it's not tied to any of that from the beginning from the outset.

There's there's no there's no trigger, there's no triggers assigned to uh to a timeline for payment.

He has made the representation that he that he would pay that, but he didn't say I'm going to give a million dollars at this percent and a million dollars at this percent.

There were no indications, there were no representations to my understanding.

There's a lot of a lot of people were asking me why.

It seems like an awful lot of money.

Sorry, yeah.

No, I I completely understand, but also uh playing devil's advocate here, that they are nowhere near close to construction or not, and I imagine that each that you know this contribution is probably internally it in this is just my assumption that it's probably tied to you know we sell this much land and then we're able to be able to budget for this contribution in it.

Doesn't matter.

It but it has to be not tied to anything, right?

No, no, no.

What I'm saying is you're saying on the private right it internally with Tuscan that they probably have within their overall plan of you know we need to we need to develop this our this area of the site and sell this and get these returns or whatever.

I don't know, right?

I'm that's why I'm asking the question.

I wasn't sure why.

And again, that that's my that's my speculation.

I don't know that for certain, but I'm I'm just saying that I'm not sure.

And I'm trying to find the answer because I I asked the town councils that they weren't entirely sure of whether it was an obligation or if it was a pledge or a donation.

It's a representation that was made in a donation, it is not a bill from the town to so now I'm asking you guys and you get the answer.

Uh that's the answer.

Kind of it's not entirely.

Well, right, I mean, the answer that we know.

So that's yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's not for us to determine.

Yeah.

It doesn't ask him.

Uh yeah, I would I could.

Yeah.

I could.

That's what I would do.

And you've had interest you know, but I thought that's a good idea.

The question the question is asked to Tuscan periodically.

We do ask, we do check in and say, hey, where would you where were you going?

I love what they're doing.

It's just it just seems like the numbers didn't add up.

You know, it I found it strange that it was difficult to get an answer from the town that there was some money owed, and they weren't sure.

It's not owed.

It's not owed to it.

Because it's not owed.

That well, there was some money pledged.

Correct, but it's not owed.

There's no outstanding bill.

It was a donation.

So somehow it's a donation.

No.

If you've been in business and and you've been in sales, sometimes you can say, hey, you know, I'm gonna give you some money.

Right.

And then it doesn't always show up.

You know, and I'm not gonna make an accusation like that.

If he made a pledge and there's no time line, we've moved on here.

Yeah.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

Thank you, Mr.

Thank you for shedding some light.

Is that it, Jacob?

That's it.

I I just wanted to put it on your radar.

There's a daycare at 15 Armour Road that's looking to increase their student count because the state's licensing has changed.

They can their square foot their area doesn't uh isn't increasing, but the state allows them to have more children in that space.

So I'm just working with the property owner.

Uh I think there's probably been some other turnover in that plaza that we're 15 armor road.

They're taking over uh whose no, they're not uh they're not expanding at all.

I think they're just in their existing unit and they're um looking to add five children because the state uh changed their regulations and they can accommodate more children in the same space.

So I'm just wanted to put it on your radar because I'm working with the applicant to see if there's been turnover in other units where I they could accommodate.

I think it's like one or two spaces that are required.

So I wanted to make you aware of that.

But that's it.

Okay, thank you.

Before we quit.

Do you you you don't want to be secretary?

I'm I'm I was having fun.

Okay.

I served the floor.

We could change it.

We could change the we can make a motion right now.

We can make sure we can make Sean Secretary and then place more vice uh like to do that.

We just switch it right now.

Well you could but I wouldn't advise it would you would you rather would you rather advice chair Tyler would you prefer I don't it it's all like well spread the wealth.

Well we can switch it next time if you change your mind all right okay motion to adjourn Mr.

Chair second second.

All in favor?

Yes okay plenty more closed