Good evening.

I would like to call the June 23rd, 2026 meeting of the Planning Board to order.

Please rise for the fleetance.

And to the Republic for which it stands.

One nation under God.

My name is Joe Fioli serving as chairman tonight.

Members sitting on the five member planning board tonight.

Jim Harvey.

Good evening, Salem.

Bianca Kelson.

Good evening, Salem.

Town Council Representative Paul Pelletier.

And Trink Sabah.

Good evening, Salem.

And with us from the planning department is Jacob Lafontaine.

The agenda for tonight is as follows.

We have a public hearing for the adoption of an open space master plan in one item of new business.

It's a main street 401 LLC site plan, public hearing for a change of use to convert office units to four residential apartments at 401 Main Street.

No withdrawals, Mr.

Chair.

Okay, thank you.

We have two items of uh minutes.

We'll table those.

Um go to the first item of uh of the agenda is a public hearing for an adoption of open space master plan.

Um hello, uh members of the planning board.

My name is Craig Rubaker, community development.

Um the Conservation Commission in 2024 put together an open space task force to update uh the town's 2010 open space report.

Um throughout 2025, the uh task force, which consisted of a couple of conservation commission members, a planning board member, and a town council member.

Uh they worked with the Rockingham Planning Commission to uh put together this 2026 Open Space Master Plan.

Uh the kind of purpose of the Open Space Master Plan is threefold.

Uh one is to update uh town maps and data reports uh to serve as a natural resource inventory of the natural resources within Salem.

This is a key task designated to the commission under state law as well.

Uh there were maps uh that identified open space priorities uh based on other planning documents such as the town wide master plan, uh recreational planning efforts and practical considerations such as cost and landowner interest.

Uh and then the third kind of purpose of this is to identify with ways to plan and implement open space protections such as the open space preservation ordinance uh and then tools such as easements and land acquisition.

Uh tonight, Jen Rowden for the Rocky Am Planning Commission is here to kind of present this plan uh and we'll both be available for any questions you have after.

Great.

Thanks.

So hello, I'm Jen Rowden.

I'm the assistant director with Rockingham Planning Commission and had the pleasure of getting to work with Salem over about the past year and a half to implement this update to your open space master plan.

Um this was adopted by the Conservation Commission back in May, and I did a similar presentation to the town council also in May.

So as Crane alluded to, why open space?

Um really the purpose of planning for open space is to help enhance the quality of life of the community.

It does support revitalization efforts of town centers, which is a really big emphasis here within Salem itself.

It can help to protect the environment.

It also can help to provide recreational and educational opportunities within the community, and really can serve as a connection between different parts of town through trails, sidewalks, and also conservation lands and protected spaces and parkways.

So back in 2010, RPC actually helped Salem to produce its first open space plan.

Um that had actually served the community quite well.

The Conservation Commission had updated it periodically between 2010 and the most recent update.

Um the update really includes a natural resources inventory, which is one of the main tasks identified within a conservation commission's purview.

Um it also includes some community priorities, which I'll go into and real flex some of the planning documents that this board is oversees, and it also prioritizes parcels for protection efforts potentially in the future.

So natural resources inventories are a way of documenting the natural resources within a community.

Um it describes the resources, it identifies areas of high ecological value, either from local data or from state data sets, and it really serves as the basis to prioritize those natural resources protections.

We did include an entire series of mapping that includes some really basic land use mapping to topography, soils, agricultural soils, we have water resources, floodplain resources, wildlife action plan resources, which is a state data set.

We also include unfragmented lands, protected lands, watersheds, and impervious surfaces, all to help calibrate where some of the prime natural resources are within Salem, depending on what item you may be specifically targeting.

So I won't go through all of the maps themselves, but the high resolution versions of these are also available on the Conservation Commission open space plan website within the document itself.

They're smaller, so sometimes at a scale for an entire community, it's hard to see exactly what location you're looking for, but I do recommend skimming through them for both the planning board purposes and for the purpose of the open space plan themselves.

They can really help to inform decisions.

Part of the natural resources inventory, one of the things we did was we took a variety of things that could be measured geospatially and pitted them against a scoring system.

The purpose of that was to help to identify places in Salem that may be the highest priorities for protection conservation efforts or protection efforts for natural resources protection.

So we mapped things and did a co-occurrence on things like floodplains, wildlife habitat.

Was it a drinking water resource?

So, based on that scoring, the map you'll see before you is that the areas of darker green tended to score higher for their natural resources value.

It doesn't mean that that is solely a reason why you should protect that area, but it does score fairly high for natural resources protections because of some of the services those natural resources actually provide for the community.

An easy way to look at is around Canaby Lake.

That tends to score high simply because it is a drinking water source, but it also has some really good wildlife habitat in that area.

The next area that we evaluated was community planning priorities.

We took a variety of Salem planning documents, including your recent master plan that you updated in 2024.

We looked at the 2010 open space plan, the 2024 town wide goals established by the town council, the conservation commission's goals, your hazard mitigation plan, and also your capital improvement plan to identify what themes really came out of many of those documents as they applied to protecting open space.

Major themes that came up were a desire to mitigate flood impacts, really wanting to protect connections in town via trails and sidewalks, exploring recreational opportunities that included both natural spaces for passive recreation, but also your park system.

And then also maintaining wildlife corridors.

That was particularly a theme through a lot of the Conservation Commission focused efforts in the past few years.

Using those scoring, we actually did a similar co-occurrence map with how far were some areas from certain things.

How close was something to a park?

How close was something in proximity to sidewalks or existing trail networks?

Where were floodplains that you may want to protect from future development?

So using those community scoring, we came up with another co-occurrence map where the darker the blue, the higher that area met community priorities based on planning documents.

So taking the natural resources co-occurrence map, the community priorities co-occurrence map, and then some information that we got from some key informants, including your former planner, some of the practical considerations when you may consider protecting open space, like what is the cost of that land, what is the willingness or interest of that landowner.

So places where we had some information of a landowner that may have no interest, we may not know information, or we may have some information that in the future they may be interested in protecting their land, or that the land value simply is very, very high.

We scored that on a variety of scoring mechanisms.

Between all of that information, we result in the final map that's on the cover of the open space plan, but was really the result of the entire open space planning effort, are the areas that are in darker red.

That means that they scored the highest between natural resources, community priorities, and then those practical considerations for potential protection focus being put in those areas.

It does not mean the areas in red automatically should be protected.

It just means that it helps to prioritize because of the limited amount of funding and efforts that can go towards such items.

Related to the map, we did score the top 100 parcels for each of the natural resources, the planning priorities, and then the overall open space planning.

What were the top 100 parcels that score the highest?

The ones that are in purple in this list, this is only showing a small segment of them, happen to be already owned by the town.

That gives you a good idea that Salem already owns quite a bit of highly scoring property values.

That's really because of the efforts of the Conservation Command, excuse me, conservation commission for the last few decades.

Not exclusively but largely.

But this really helps to provide an initial list for the Conservation Commission and potentially with the planning board's involvement about where efforts may be best suited.

Perhaps portions of these properties could be utilized for future efforts for protection.

Perhaps they could be segments of them or whole properties that are near existing properties.

Nothing on this list is intended to be exclusive.

But when you're protecting open space, you it's good to know a few statistics behind it.

So Salem currently has just shy of 2,000 acres of protected open space.

Some of this is open space that has conservation easements, some of it is open space simply because it is municipally owned town land or state-owned land.

When you were doing open space preservation, you can do it in a couple of ways.

You can do regulations that restrict someone's use of that land.

That can be using wetland setbacks, that can be using floodplain restrictions.

That's not anybody buying the land, that is simply a restriction on the use.

But it does maintain open space.

There are the options of land donations or purchases.

Someone can choose to donate their land or to work with a community to put a conservation easement on it.

You can also have the option of right of refusal.

What that is is that if someone may in the future want to consider selling their land, the town can inquire, and I say the town, it's largely focused on the conservation commission, can try to have an option where they get the right of first refusal, where if it happens to work out that they can come up with funding to purchase that land, they have the option.

It's not a guarantee.

And then finally, there are placing land in current use.

That's where a private property owner, if they have 10 or more acres, can put their land into current use.

And as long as they are not developing that land, they pay a significantly less tax burden to maintain that as open space.

When they go to develop it, they do end up paying those taxes back.

That's part of your land use change tax.

As of 2025, the conservation fund balance, that is the primary funding used to protect open space in Salem was just shy of two million dollars.

That is largely because of a bond that has been taken out.

And also the conservative, I'm sorry, and also the land use change tax that has accumulated over time.

So recommendations.

These are largely focused on the conservation commission, but there is one at the end that does relate to the planning board really specifically.

They all come back to the main idea of use what's in this report to help guide protection efforts.

Use the parcel prioritization, use the maps to help work with landowners, review the report annually, make recommendations for land acquisition as part of the CIP or budgeting process.

Identify alternative sources of funding, and work with land acquisition specialists to help implement some of those recommendations.

But the final one is use the open space preservation zoning ordinance to preserve lands.

You currently have within your existing zoning ordinance an ordinance that really targets that protection of open space while allowing a property owner to develop portions of their land where you get the benefit of the open space protection while the developer or the landowner is able to make a profit over the development of their land.

So really extending that potential use a little bit more, promoting it is also an option.

That is something that is also recommended that you keep on the books, even though my understanding is it has not been utilized widely in Salem.

So I know that was rather quick, but if there are any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

That's a public hearing, right, Jacob?

Anyone from the public like to speak on this plan?

Great.

Go to the board.

Anyone from the board?

Anything?

Disability of anything.

No.

Okay.

Mr.

Harvey is.

Just one question.

So the in the acreage calculations, do bodies of water, are they included in this, or is this only land?

Open water was now not included in that calculation.

Um some streams and rivers could have been.

How does that 2,000 acres compare to other municipalities?

As a percentage, I'd have to go back to look to see what your actual percentage is, but you're about on par with neighboring communities.

Most of Southern New Hampshire tends to aim for about a 25% conservation land statistic.

You're in that ballpark, and very few communities have actually made that 25% threshold.

Some are approaching it, but not most in sort of the set southern central part of the state.

Interesting.

Doesn't seem that way.

Anything else?

From the board?

Should we vote on it?

Vote to adopt this?

Yeah, I would recommend it.

Sorry.

I would recommend if you're satisfied to move to adopt it.

I just wanted to make one note.

Um just for the record, I guess.

Uh Salem has seen wide utilization of our open space subdivision.

We have approved 31 open space subdivisions in Salem.

We're running out of land, though, but we've we frequently presented um on open space as recent as I think last month I presented on our experience with open space subdivision.

I presented on our experience with open space subdivision.

So we do try to promote it as much as we we possibly can.

Uh we just don't have too many parks.

Remember a few of those um that we used it for.

And I think we modified it maybe like five years ago.

We did in 2022, and it's received um we you've approved one open space subdivision, but you've also only probably approved one you know subdivision greater than you know eight well, probably even greater than three.

Most of the subdivisions you've approved recently are you know two lot subdivisions.

Right.

So I just wanted to make note of that.

Okay that has been a success uh break point.

Okay.

Entertain a motion to uh adopt the uh open space master plan.

Um Mr.

Chair, I make a motion to approve the 2026 open space master plan as presented.

Second.

Uh all those in favor.

It's unanimous.

Open space master plan adopted by the planning board.

Okay, thank you so much.

Thank you.

Appreciate that.

So uh we'll go to uh the only item of new business on the agenda.

That's the main street 401 LLC site plan to public hearing for change of use to convert office units to four residential apartments at 401 main streets.

Um complete.

Yes, the plan is complete.

Um motion to accept the plan.

Second.

All those in favor.

That's unanimous.

The plan is accepted.

Butters, please.

Uh the abutters are as follows.

If you're here, please indicate by saying so.

They are coal, C V Salem, Mulloy Family Revocable Trust, Al Toel Family Trust, Alena and Quatech, Moss Real Estate Corporation, Lentini, Rodriguez Lebron, Sepal Veda, Samarles, another Rodriguez, Delusia, Tordi, Wang, Monique, or sorry, I think that's uh Dion, Ayers Village Realty, uh, another Lentini, Kate Co LLC, 21 Hampstead Road Realty Trust, Aries Village Professional Park, uh Pazanese and RSI Cano, uh, several other Lantinis.

There's probably four of them.

Uh LaRosa, Mann, Family Trust, and uh Ortega, Goodrow, Lashie Bros, Bernard Real Estate, Patel, City of Methuen, and that is all.

Okay, thank you.

Move to the applicant to present the plan.

That's quite a list.

Uh good evening, uh, Mr.

Chair, board members.

My name is Suzanne Brunel.

I'm an attorney at Divine Millament in Manchester, New Hampshire.

I'm here on behalf of the applicant, Main Street 401 LLC.

They are the owner of 401 Main Street.

Um, their members are here this evening.

We've got um Kimberly and David Abair.

Um, they are residents of Salem.

Also here tonight is Michael Malinowski, who is a licensed um engineer with Allen and Major, in case we start getting into math, in which case I will sit down.

Um we're here before you that was a joke.

Um we're here before you tonight seeking approval of a site plan due to a conversion of space which exceeds 500 square feet.

In our case, our number is 3,960 square feet.

Uh the A Bears purchased this property in January of 2021, and Dave and Kim have done a great job of updating and upgrading this property.

However, they were having trouble leasing um some second story units that were located in the back of the property.

They did not have a lot of um viewing from the the main street, and so it was difficult to get some businesses in there.

Um so they uh went seeking a variance which they received from the town on a change of use in April 7, 2026 to allow the use of four one bedroom apartments and located in the back of that building.

Uh we do know that as of July 1, 2026, the variants would no longer be required, but still be in front of you guys for a site plan review.

So here we are.

Um there are no changes proposed to the outside of the building.

Any changes would be internal to this building only.

This is a small project.

Um sewer capacity is set forth on the site improvement summary plan.

It's in your packet and it shows compliance with the sewer capacity requirements.

Additionally, we received a letter from the town health officer who reviewed the sewage capacity and indicated there's enough septic sorry, septic capacity for the proposed residential units.

Uh similarly, the parking summary table is also located on that same plan.

It too indicates that all parking requirements are met with the benefit of actually a reduction in the use when you change from office commercial to residential use.

Um and we are not seeking any waivers this evening.

Uh the variance with the change of use can be allowed with this board's approval of the site plan.

This change is consistent with meeting the town's planning goals by increasing uh housing availability in Salem.

Our site plan and its review have been conducted in accordance with the Salem site plan regulations.

We have addressed sewer capacity and parking, and these measures are consistent with the salem regulations.

Additionally, no site alterations again are planned with this change.

And we respectfully request your approval on the site plan application.

Thank you.

Thanks.

And here from the planning department.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

So I'll try to be brief.

This parcel has been before you several times, specifically since 2021.

It was initially for the coffee shop, Aroma Joe's, and then laundry service, function space, expansion of existing restaurant.

And periodically during those change of uses they've had to modify their conditional use permit.

As attorney Brunell notes, this actually results in a net reduction for their parking demand because they'll only be required to have one space per the four resident, one space for each four residential units.

Aside from that, there are wetlands on site, but there are no further impacts and no mitigation proposed.

They're not changing anything on site, just the interior renovations of those units.

They're on town water or city water, actually on Methuan water there, and then they're also on the private septic system.

They do have a variance for the residential use, which wasn't uh by right use in the limited community shop and village district.

That use was that variance was granted by the zoning board in April of 2026, and they did so with stipulations.

One that they demonstrate that there's sufficient septic capacity, as attorney grell noted.

Our health officers reviewed that and uh is indicated they are satisfied.

And there was also another condition that says uh shall abide by findings to comply with regulations for garden daycare children slash children's playgrounds.

That was primarily due to the crash protection that was around the playground.

So I went out today and I did document what exists currently and ultimately that's something I think that we could handle at the staff level.

And my understanding is that this has been the existing condition for quite some time, but uh building and fire can take a look and just make sure that nothing was missed there.

Um I'm sure that the applicant is amenable to that.

There was another request for uh uh variants for workforce housing to to waive that requirement for this project.

Uh the ZBA denied that variance request, so they are uh proposing one of these units be affordable, and that's generally done with deed restrictions, which would be part of the condition of approval.

Uh also spoke of the applicant.

They haven't uh submitted an impact fee waiver, uh, so your regulations allow them to reduce the impact fee.

Um, you know, for instance, if they designate it to uh 50% of the area median income, then you can assess the impact fee at 50%.

If they reserve it at 60% of the area median income, you also you have the ability to assess 60% of the impact fee.

So they haven't submitted that, but they have indicated that that uh will likely be something they seek in the future, which is what we've done in the past.

I think recently you uh approved a waiver or reduction uh for the impact fee at 380 Main Street not too long ago, maybe a couple months ago.

Aside from that, the other comments I had, you know, we generally when we do these change uses, we'll go out and conduct a site inspection.

And um these were a couple trees.

Uh well, so there's one tree here in this island that has uh has died or is certainly dying.

And then I also asked about the ability to add some uh vegetation in these landscape dials.

They've done a really good job.

The landscape and that was approved in 2021 is really starting to establish and mature, and that's primarily along the frontage.

Uh, there's two trees here and two trees here to the applicant's credit just off-screen, which I should have included, but to the directionally, I think that's the north.

Uh the applicant uh, you know, voluntarily added several evergreens on our vitees to provide some screening to the uh residential abutters uh to the north.

And um so I wanted to kind of acknowledge that they've done a really good job.

You know, a lot of the trees are just maintenance.

This was a tree that was planted and just hasn't done so well, and then also this tree uh this was from today, doesn't look like it's doing so well, but that's something I'm sure we could work with the applicant.

The bigger ask, I guess, was to kind of um replicate some of the trees and the island before the 2021 facade improvements that they had.

There was actually a planted aisle, plant an aisle here and here where these striped areas are, um, and those trees have been removed, so this would kind of help comply with our site plan regulations, which require some of those shade trees in the interior of parking lots.

Um, so not to spend too much time on that, just wanted to kind of bring it to your attention.

There are impact fees that would be due prior to uh occupancy, it'd be 1,162 and 40 cents.

That's uh after credit in the retail rate uh for public safety, and then there is also um uh impact fees for recreation and school.

Uh so those total $2,636 for recreation and then $11,168 for the school impact fee, and then the public safety again is $1,162.40 after the credit for the retail use.

Uh there is a note um referring to the parking lot expansion should be removed.

Expansion was done under prior approval, so I just noted that.

And then um again, we acknowledge that the impact fees could be further reduced for one affordable unit if the request is granted.

At this point, it would be at a future meeting.

Um comments from engineer and fire and police are pending.

We do have the comments from the health office.

Uh uh recommendation tonight would be if your concerns are satisfied, uh conditional approval.

Yeah, when you give us the conditions, please.

Yep, recommended conditions would be prior to building permit one, submit staff approvals.

Two, pay public safety impact fee one thousand one hundred and sixty-three dollars and forty cents, recreation impact fee of two thousand six hundred and thirty-six dollars, and school impact fee of eleven thousand one hundred and sixty-eight dollars.

Three, record affordable housing restrictive covenant approved by town attorney at applicants' expense.

Four, replace dead trees.

Um, and then this would be for discussion, but it says and install three additional trees and internal median islands, and that's the location that was shown here.

Five, construct all site improvements in accordance with the approved plan.

Six under other construct one affordable unit prior to occupancy permit for the third market rate unit.

So in terms of sequencing, that would mean that prior to them occupying that fourth market rate, the um affordable unit would have to come online first with administration and income qualification to be handled by outside agent working for town and paid for by applicant.

Uh seven applicant must operate business so that parking lot capacity is not exceeded, and eight, all representations made by applicant or agents are noted and all notes on the plan are incorporated as part of the approval.

I erroneously had one that said no amended conditional use permanent plan.

They're actually improving their condition because of the conversion.

That's all.

Okay, thanks.

Any members of the public like to speak on the plan?

Did the board have any comments?

Yeah.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Um is there a designated parking area for these wool units?

I'm sorry.

There are a designated parking area for these wool units.

There is not we have not previously designed that designated.

There's plenty of parking there.

Uh unfortunately, no one is back there, which is why we applied for the variance to begin with.

So plenty of parking.

Are you saying there's there's parking in the back of that building?

Yes.

I can't see it clearly on this.

Are you referring to the area by the playground like this here to the north of it?

Well, there the parking spaces would be actually in front of those actual those units, not over where the daycare center is.

Yeah, I think I I mean if you'd like them designated, that's fine, but I don't plenty of room there.

I kind of understand it.

I can see there's uh there's like eight parking spaces to at the back where the playground is.

All right, thank you.

Where in the building specifically are the apartments?

Sorry.

Jump right there, Joe.

Please.

Right.

So the red band that he was just showing is they're up on the second floor.

And they're located in the back of that building.

So there are second floor access to the major parking lot or access only to the back.

Access is from the back.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

The side there's a floor plan that was in the okay.

Just want to make sure.

Okay, plenty of on it.

Jacob, could you just pull up on the site plan uh where on the building?

Yeah, so it is.

Let me just make this full screen.

What area of the building?

So it's this portion here that's shaded.

It's a little hard to see, but it would be the playgrounds located here, main streets down here, Hampstead Road is here.

Okay, so it'd be the northern portion of the building.

They're like overlooking the playground.

Yep.

Jacob, if you bring up the the exterior.

This one here.

So yeah, so you see where the the red band is.

Uh Michael Mallin ask you without a major.

Um the dark brown that's in the middle, that's the stair tower that services both the lower level and then goes up to the second floor.

So there's two stairs, and there'll be apartments on either side of that stair tower.

So it's it's easier to see in that view because they kind of stand out.

Thanks.

Good.

No.

I have a quick question.

Yes.

Um, I'll I'll start with a comment that I think this is a great use uh for otherwise seemingly unusable space.

Thank you.

Um Jacob, so the there's a house bill that was or there is a an RSA now related to residential uses in commercial developments and it being allowed uh as long as there's commercial on the ground floor.

This would so that that would make this project seemingly allowable by right, correct?

That that's correct.

So and attorney Brunel uh mentioned that I think that on July 1 that RSA will be effective.

We've discussed it um at our last couple of meetings, and we kind of put a pause on it because of House Billy and 1010.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Um, but either way, regardless of whether or not the governor were to sign those or veto, what have you, the current RSA that was uh uh uh passed last year will become effective July 1, which requires um mixed use development to be a permitted use in commercial districts.

Um what we've paused on is whether or not uh it's uh you know a buy right or conditional use permit, which is kind of what we had initially proposed it at would be a conditional use permit request, similar to what we've seen in the depot, uh, which is not produced mixed use residential, but it's produced uh residential with depot in Maine.

Sure.

So with this, they're they're not asking for they're not asking for a conditional use permit.

They're asking for a change of use.

Just a change of use, yeah.

There's a conditional use permit on this property currently for the you know, the mix of uses because they're deficient parking based off of your parking requirements.

This specific change of use actually improves that condition based off of your parking requirements because um they're converting from office, which is one per 300 square feet, to residential, which is now one per uh one unit.

So they'll need four parking spaces uh where previously they needed uh greater than that.

Sure.

Um in the um I guess I'll I'll just throw it out there that I think the uh the zoning board's decision was a bit um probably in my mind it does not align with the master plan, which unfortunately does not align with the zoning.

Um so I understand why the zoning board did what they did, but it's very unfortunate that I appreciate that that you guys are being forced to uh to provide 25% affordable housing on a project that you're only allowed to provide 10.

Um I do appreciate you providing it in in general.

I mean, I guess you don't really have much of a choice.

Um, but I imagine the other units will probably have to make up for uh for the loss of the uh affordable unit.

So um that is also an unfortunate um consequence of that.

So uh that's all I have.

Anything else from the board okay?

Jake it was uh was there a uh uh uh sign issue on one of these build um one of these buildings, like a condition that was never um it we did discuss at one point in time.

I think maybe you're referring to the uh the bank, I think that maybe had a sign that was not consistent.

Is that what you're or no?

You know what you're thinking about?

You're thinking about the outbuilding at um Aroma Joe's.

So uh the applicant to present a sign to you for um the thrifts uh it's not a thrift store consignment uh store.

Right.

Um and you were not satisfied with that.

I think uh what you ultimately asked for was for it to match the existing signage on the uh building, which is uh they've done a really good job to have consistent signage for our design guidelines where it's uh I believe black uh black uh sign with gold letters, and I think that was one of the things you spoke about.

Right now it's just a just right now, it's just a temporary sign.

So they have a banner up there, but they haven't uh installed the permanent sign.

We could work with them on that.

Okay, the applicant I think is amenable, I think in previous discussions uh to address on that.

Okay, good enough.

Okay.

Well, nothing else from the board that's taint a motion uh to do something.

I have eight yeah I have an extra one in there by accident.

Which condition was it that you had it was number seven which said no to amended conditional use permanent plan but it here they're they have a credit I guess essentially for the production.

Okay.

I move to approve the change of use permit with the eight conditions noted by Mr.

Wolfant I got a motion a second to grant conditional approval to the main street 401 LC plan the conditions any discussion on that all those in favor that's unanimous five zero unanimous thank you.

Thank you.

Good night.

Very good what's next?

I have a handful of public matters the first one I'll go to uh will be for uh Jocelyn's because she's present I can think it was towards the end though and then just make sure um let's see from the current slide.

So you approved uh I think it was earlier this year maybe you approved a plan for 357 South Broadway and what they were proposed or what they are proposing to do is convert what was a cigar lounge to a function center.

I think this is second to Tuskin with what for the most uh hearings other most uh they keep us busy yeah very well could be yeah with yeah because they did recently get a food truck approved there and um it has been before you several times although 401 Main Street's also been before you a lot of times but um they uh we went by and and there are some facade improvements that weren't consistent with the approved plan uh it's kind of in the process of being built up uh in this manner but right now if you were to drive by you'd kind of see the frame or uh this you know kind of the structure that they're building here so I'd reached out to the applicant and the applicant apologized thought that this was under their current approval and essentially they're looking to um have your approval you know request that this be placed on the June 23rd under public matters is our apologies for the oversight we were under the impression that the exterior modifications had been included as part of the overall approved plans and did not realize separate build planning board approval would be required for the facade changes.

So wanted to bring these to you um I think right now you know this area is under construction the in terms of the facade and then this is under construction as well.

This is all the same square footage same footprint uh nothing changes on the interior uh just that that's correct right just exterior uh changes um so is there architectural plans or anything elevations or anything so we could we should get um you know there's two ways either they're gonna amend their existing building permit to include the facade changes because it's also not under it's not on the site plan and it's not under their building permit or the building department's gonna have them uh apply for a separate permit just for the facade okay but either way we should get a plan that in addition to the rendering calls out materials and colors uh and then the only other thing I would note too is that you know the signage we would want to review a little closer to um they are proposed they are shown a sign here and a sign here I think right now they maybe have one sign that's double sided so you know presumably it's consistent but dimensions we'd want to look at um and that's not provided here so we we would want materials colors and then we would also want dimensions and height uh which I'm sure that there would be okay or it appears they'll be okay but we'll want those aspects.

Are you okay with that not coming in first side I mean it's not changing the new footprint uh square footage say the same that no I think changing the number of patrons or yeah I think it's okay.

I mean nothing changes on their approved plan the facade I think at the time what they have done is they had take taken a picture of the existing building and then just kind of showed that as their elevation.

So obviously this is different you know they are increasing the height but I don't think it's habitable area.

I think it's more just to kind of um increase the uh this you know create this tower here and um you have approved um similar proposals I think um the one on Kelly Road and 28 the planning board approved administratively or under public matters to add some height to that building so I kind of see it as akin to that.

Okay.

Board good with that admittedly I you I would have been mistaken that that would have been included.

It it seems familiar but I don't know I don't know where in my memory it's coming up from but I've definitely seen it before and I can't recall if I've seen it here or this we've never seen this before.

We've never seen this before.

I mean, personally I've seen that, but I can't recall in my memory if it's if it was from here or in the green.

I think it could have been I think it's been shared uh after we identified, I think it's been shared on social media perhaps that's where I saw it.

It may have been, but again, I I know I've seen it before, so it's not surprisingly, but I can't recall if I yeah, the elevation was the same as uh when the cigar lounge was puffed and it was the same cover sheet, which was just really a uh image of the existing facade and didn't show anything um you know, certainly not to this scale, it was really just the existing condition.

Um what did we approve here so I forget?

It's um gonna be a restaurant and then also a function space.

Oh no, function space, and then um it'll be like a uh uh um uh a function room, I guess, right?

After the after hours, there's off hours.

Okay.

So I think in red music bands.

Live music and fans, yeah.

Okay, thanks.

Okay.

So the right side will still be a lounge.

It's going to be one open space.

So one open space.

And come up can't be able to do that.

Do you mind just uh sorry?

No, I'm sorry.

No, that's okay.

Oh, if you want to just introduce yourself and then my name is Jocelyn Marin Severino, and I'm here to talk about identity.

Our architect came up with this plan, I think after we had already gotten the okay with you.

And I actually I don't know if they were submitted to you by Kelvin, but so that's why we're getting the okay for this now.

Yeah.

Okay, so the tower, that's simply open air and windows is the black windows for light to come in.

The at the front entrance.

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah, so it's not a habitable space, it's just uh kind of yeah.

Yeah, right.

But it allows light to come into the and Jacob, what was the existing use for this now or the current use for it?

Uh for a very long time it was a restaurant as Jocelyn's, and then it was Puff Lounge briefly, and that was a cigar lounge.

And I think what the chair was kind of indicating is that they initially came before you to convert the restaurant to a cigar lounge.

I think that was done administratively, and then they came back in and they said actually we'd like to convert a portion of it back to a restaurant and then keep a cigar lounge and a portion of it.

And uh more recently, uh Jocelyn has come in and said we want to make it more of a function space, and then after the function space I think closes, they would have music and uh DJ's bands, that kind of thing.

And we had the food truck.

And we have yes, food you have recently approved two different layouts for food trucks at this location while the applicant uh has the site under construction.

A question for the applicant what will the hours of operation be for this?

It depends because they have private events that book.

So if it's a wedding, for example, you know, by midnight it should be over, but last call is 1230.

So it's it will be booked out for events, and then if we have live music, same as our restaurant now.

Last call's around 12, 1230, and then everyone's out.

And is this a butt residential?

It does, but residential, and uh, but there are hours of operation that were on the approved plan too that they would be subject to.

So I just add that as a uh as a note, I guess.

Okay.

I don't think it'll be open every day.

It's just if we have something, if we have a band, if we have uh an event, because right now at Sevmar we are losing business because we're shutting down our restaurant because we're booking events and people are getting frustrated with us because they'll come for dinner and we're clothes for an event.

So we definitely have the clients to book this out already.

So I think it's gonna be well as part of our brand.

Good.

Good.

Great.

Okay.

All right.

Also, Jake.

Thank you so much.

Thanks.

All right, so um other items of uh public matters.

This is from uh the Salem Grand Casino.

So similarly, uh another staff observation.

I was out um at the casino and uh just taking a look at the construction and notice that they've got the building.

What's that?

Uh well, I don't think you have to go in anymore.

I think you can kind of see right in with the uh you know the demo recording done, yeah.

I remember coming off exit one what a week ago, and you can kind of see straight through.

So you opened it right up.

The walls were missing.

Yes, yeah, the yeah, they've got large portions of the walls missing.

Um so one thing I noticed while I was out there is that they've uh created a temporary curb cut, and um this is a memo from C M and B, which is the construction team, and they've stated that they've created the temporary curb cut in the north side parking area.

The main purpose is to divert traffic away from the north side, which makes sense uh during the construction.

So they're obviously doing some pretty significant demo.

They're now gonna obviously put the building back together.

So what it looks like essentially is this is as you're coming in off of uh Pleasant Street and they close off the food court would be immediately to the left, and then you can obviously see the um uh scaffolding along the casino.

But they've opened up this area here.

Um so this wasn't reviewed, it wasn't part of the site plan, and what I observed was that um when I was there, there were some people who even though really the traffic flow should go to the right and then go around.

Uh people are often inclined to try to figure out the quickest way to get where they want.

So there was a couple instances where people were taking the left and then kind of weaving in and out of the parking aisles.

So I just wanted to bring it to your attention.

One acknowledged that it is a temporary condition, um, and that um at the end of construction, the temporary curb cut will be removed and the and the landscape island will be released, restored to its original condition.

Um, and they talked about how they coordinate delivery access and uh you know other logistics with them all.

So approved by the mall, just wasn't really reviewed at the staff level.

I'd also have, of course, uh police and fire way in, and uh, I think it could probably use some additional kind of uh wayfinding or circulation to try to you know compel people to go towards the right.

People are of course uh still gonna do what what they'd like, but um uh not kind of an ideal condition, but a temporary condition on the less that they're or perhaps make it look less like a parking space.

Yes, they could they they could certainly uh so they did have this yellow and a stop bar here and a stop sign, but um, but you're absolutely right.

They probably should stripe over the uh the prior stalls.

It to me it just kind of caught me off guard when I was coming in because that looks semi permanent, I guess.

Uh but also I mean if you're pulling in and you're not like really I guess paying attention to all of the surroundings and you're just looking for a parking space, you're probably gonna park there.

Yeah, it's a little awkward.

This kind of calls out where you know, so you come in here and and it is uh relatively you know, soon after the entryway where you have to take that right.

They are um you know, putting cones and road closure, but I think they still need probably some more uh wayfind to loop people because the way it's supposed to work is you're supposed to come in here and then go along here and then kind of loop back over this way.

But I guess what I was seeing was people would come through here and they'd think you know, maybe that they could avoid the closure by coming this way, but of course it you know you can't go that way, so they were kind of you weave in through some of the spaces over here.

So they're fixing it, did you tell them to fix it?

What's that?

Did you tell them to fix that?

Uh well that could be one.

I mean, we could talk about are there other other better alternatives, right?

I mean it's a construction site.

Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah.

Um, but they I think I think wayfinding would probably go a long way.

I mean, the honest people uh I guess would follow it, and the other people might not, but at least you know, we kind of do our best effort uh during this temporary condition with the understanding that you probably don't want to route people that we can ask them to redo the entire island all the way across the whole length of the lot now that they tore up part of it so they can modernize it the whole thing, make it look like it matches.

Yeah, yeah.

I have a question, Jacob.

So since the change of ownership on this project has the scope of work on the exterior of the building changed significantly, because I don't remember anything about blowing a hole through the building.

And it was very minor modifications that were the original proposal for the exterior of it, and it seems to me that the scope and scale of the project is vastly different than what was approved by this board.

It's consider it's uh consistent with what you've approved in the past.

What they uh had for live casino did have some pretty significant facade improvements.

They would have probably had to done a similar thing.

They they tried very hard to kind of keep the general mass in the same with rebranding it so that it didn't look just like a live casino or a cord company's branded uh casino.

Um but yeah, I would say it's substantially the same.

Actually, I should have brought to you tonight.

Um they have some artwork that they've submitted.

It will mostly be uh murals of his they they want to pay a lot of tribute to um the racetrack.

Obviously, the new name is the Rock and Ham Graham Casino or Grand Rock and Ham Casino.

And um, you know, there you approved uh art mural that was kind of more like an abstract art piece on the northern facade, and what they're kind of anticipating right now would be um in that area, they'd still have artwind it, which would be I think uh blue roses, which ties into the Kentucky Derby.

I I understand, and then uh that'd be the background, and then in uh front of that would be historic images from the racetrack.

Um and those have been submitted.

Uh and I'll bring those to you at your next meeting.

But uh, but no, in terms of the mass, and I think Cortish companies was gonna have to do the same thing.

Their color scheme was a little different, their materials were different, but it is substantially uh the same as what you previously approved.

But yeah, I guess I didn't realize either they're gonna have to, you know, open it.

Well, they're gonna have structural problems that they have to address.

The structural problems really uh is what I met with them the other week, they mentioned that it was approved in November of 24.

I 2024, I didn't think it had been quite that long, but most of that delay is then the uh structural uh concerns.

When is that supposed to be completed?

They said mid-27.

Okay, yeah, so around maybe this time next year it'll be uh be ready to go.

Very good.

All right, so yeah, I just wanted to bring that item to you, and then that uh the 14th, I'll bring the uh revised elevations.

They're pretty much the same exact uh as what you proposed uh approved previously.

It's just some of the materials have changed, and um and then they have that artwork that they wanted to present to you because that's subject to your approval as well.

Any word from Whole Foods on uh opening up?

Whole Foods I understand to be is it July?

July 17th or something.

Yeah, it might be a little after that, but uh they told us mid-July, and they'll work on that on it.

Yeah, working over time somewhere, I think it's slightly maybe after the 17th, but uh I don't know.

They've been real guarded with it.

Yeah, um this is for Tuscan Village, so um included in your packet was were some renderings for the area between 1200 and 1300, which is uh 1200's friendly toast and tavern in the square.

And they've stated that they'd like to hold a food truck and beverage containers, essentially a uh container bar uh that would be open from 12 p.m.

to 11 p.m.

and uh would most likely vary depending on the day.

They're hoping to have it uh present for uh through January 1, which I think is uh when they do their celebration.

So this is the rendering that they've submitted.

So again, uh this is Tavern in the Square, this is friendly toast.

This is what I think was previously referred to as the Mews.

Um these would be the two container bars, and then this would be um truck.

Yeah, so didn't we go round and round about the Muse and what it was gonna look like and site plan and yeah?

So they showed this other image which kind of shows how they're gonna activate.

I think they were calling this as flex space.

If you recall, and I have those uh approved plans, which I'll show in a second, they kind of said that this would be kind of the more uh I did I guess adult-oriented uh entertainment space, and then this would be more geared towards children, and um they did count it towards their open space uh master plan.

There was a lot of discussion on recreation, and they had to submit an as built before they occupied the first units at building 1300, which was the epicurean epicurean.

So back to your approval.

I think this was back in 20 early 2025.

So this is what they called it flexible turf area, and then this was that paver area.

The food the container bars are located here, the food truck is located here.

In terms of the programming that they had shown, uh again, this was kind of the flex turf with with lawn games, picnic tables, which is you know, admittedly pretty consistent, I guess, with what they're showing here.

Close enough.

And then um over here it was a little bit more uh you know, uh at one point they were gonna have a stage here and some seeding.

But they couldn't have the stage because of the whole fire truck.

Well, I thought that they had reach, right?

Yeah, I thought that was okay.

I thought that it was okay by the fire department, but not okay by Tuscan.

Um yeah, so the fire department only needed reach, which I think is this it's hard to make out, but I think it's this underlay here, and then I think it's also this underlay in this area.

So they didn't need full access, but they needed reach so that the ladder truck could say park here and then could you know reach the portions of the residential building.

Uh the carousel, this was the winter programming, so they were gonna show pop-up shops, which I think they did over the winter.

I think they might have extended them in this area here, and then not have done the carousel.

So um, and then here was the summer condition, and then here is what they're kind of currently proposing for the summer condition, and uh actually through January 1 would be this setup here.

The blue containers are already there.

The containers are already there.

Okay.

They are all right, yeah.

The email was sent June 18th, so they might have got a little ahead of themselves here.

But um that never happens.

They had to make sure that it fit.

They can change it as they go through the stuff.

Yeah, I don't see any issues within that.

Okay.

Yeah, I mean, we talked about uh a lot the the um the bar area over on Lake Park, you know, that's always been counted towards their parking area, and I think at first we said, oh, you know, is it reasonable to allow them to count a beer garden as recreation?

You know, I guess some to some extent we kind of sent that precedent.

Um, but wanted to bring to the board.

Uh I guess one thing we could do is that prior, I don't know if we'd issue a CO or uh maybe we would because they're I don't it depends on what they're gonna sell.

If it's just beverages, maybe we wouldn't, but we could kind of tie that you know, some of these amenities are you know in present before they start occupying some of this space or having the food truck on site if it were.

I mean, I imagine they would need CO, they would likely need plumbing and electrical and all the things that would fall under the category of CO.

So yeah, I guess I I don't know, yeah, probably.

I mean, yeah.

Okay, but I I'm happy to do that.

Make sure that these items are present before they start operating.

Uh they would be put in public restrooms on that area.

I might be misspeaking.

I I yeah, I don't want to misspeak.

I I thought that they might have said that they had an arrangement with some of the other businesses in this area that some of those uh ten uh patrons could use it, but yeah, so this is gonna be primarily alcohol consumption.

Yes.

Okay, so I have no problem with alcohol consumption.

But I do if there's no restrooms because crazy things end up happening outside.

And it's certainly not ideal, but the hotel is a fairly short walk across the road.

Two restaurants, or they want these people traps in for their bathrooms.

I wouldn't want them to, but I'm gonna go to the Tuscan market bathrooms.

There's as long as there is some mechanism.

Yeah, yeah, we'll look at that.

Makes sense.

All right.

I'll let them know that they're okay, subject to installation, subject to staff approvals and installation of the uh playground equipment or what you know, whatever this spaces.

Um I think we've been referring to as the corner shops.

So back, I uh I don't have an image.

Uh back in this is directly to the north of the beer garden.

And I think back in the fall, you approved kind of temporary occupancy of that space.

It was called the holiday shops or corner shops, something to that effect.

This is where they have those the bathrooms for the beer garden, I believe.

So they have the public restrooms for the beer garden, and then I think this space, although I actually haven't been inside of it, I think the space is directly next to it.

Right.

Um, and what they've used it kind of as is temporary flex space.

We had issued a permit from my recollection was that we were gonna leave it open-ended.

They kind of presented that they wanted to use it for the uh for the cold months, and that would be the holiday shops, you know, and I think the permit uh ended in April of this year.

They came in because they want to activate the space again on July 2nd uh over the 4th of July event, and then also on Sunday, July 12th, which would be uh 15 vendors for a veterans event at Tuscan.

And what happened was is that previously they kind of had the open-ended permit, and then this is was outside of that permit.

So in discussion with Tuskin, they said in the moving forward, they don't want to have that permit for the the winter months or the cold months.

They want to just come in on their rotating basis as uh events occur.

So they'll probably have you know some events I'd imagine for the holiday shops, and then these would be two events outside of uh that the big things of the space hasn't really been occupied by anybody.

It's you know, we've been kind of keeping an eye on it.

Um, you know, there hasn't been a CO.

I think there's been a certificate of completion.

Um would it operate in the same or similar manner as like a temporary event permit type of situation?

Everything would come under the temporary event, so you know, when they um when they come in for the July 2nd event, it would be a temporary event and they'd submit a separate temporary event permit for July 12th.

It's just a little unusual.

Um like if somebody wanted to we we did that at um the old Christmas tree shops, right?

We had a dance recital that wanted to come in at one point, and then it wanted to uh somebody wanted to do the vintage bazaar and uh we kind of did those separate, they were standalone events.

What kind of made this a little bit different was the fact that they wanted to open my understanding, and I think they're their email at the time was that we want to have this space as flex space that we can occupy periodically from say you know November through April, and that was what was on the permit.

Well you know that no events outside of April and then they came in and said oh we want to occupy it for these events.

So I wanted to bring it back to you.

It's like the same thing as like what you just mentioned right?

Same exact thing and th the big thing would be like you know is this more of a you know they could come in and they could say we want it to be flex retail space and we could issue a CO for it and they'll pay the impact fees and then kind of call at the end of the day and we probably could be a little bit more removed from it.

But they don't really want to do that this time they they're kind of still looking for an uh tenant so the alternative would be that they'll just kind of come in periodically for a temporary event permit and I guess we would just kind of be mindful of you know does that space become more of a permanent space.

You know they're saying that they want to occupy for these two events and they said again these temporary events are usually one or two days during the year maybe once a month depending on the demand from vendors during a Tuscan event uh please share this information so you know my my only thing when I saw this was that I thought we were kind of making things easier for them by saying here's an open ended temporary event for the winter months and they're saying actually we don't want to occupy it that way.

We would rather occupy it this way.

So okay with that as long as we just make sure they're not using it as a permanent space where we need to get paid impact fees though and I have a question.

So this is an actual structure of building right it's in building uh two thousand which is the hotel so the hotel would be right above this.

So it's part of that structure and it's a completed space uh I think it's just like it's it hasn't been fit it's just uh yeah an L box so you know they'd still have to come in for tenant fit up if and when they get an occupant.

So in an instance like when the old Christmas tree shop was vacant and somebody wanted to rent that for a weekend or whatever.

That space still had a certificate of occupancy by whoever owns the building right I mean it's governed by something in order to be rented out to somebody.

Yeah I get what you're saying is um so how can this space not have a certificate of occupancy on file with the town and yet we're renting it.

Well I think even in the instance of Christmas tree shops we we would just uh we just did it under a temporary event permit so we never issued you know obviously the the CO is tied to Christmas tree shops and when Christmas tree shop closed closed um you know there's not really an active CO at that point so we would do any everything under the temporary event permit for the uh would be the vehicle to we'd still go out and do the um inspections and then kind of sign off on it but there's no CO that's issued so it's similar to that you know I I think but this is a space there's never been a CO issued for that they're using on a temporary basis.

That would be all these other instances there was a building that was finished and was given a CO at some point for some other use.

Yeah.

So to me it feels like they're scurrying the process for whatever reason that they're trying to keep it open for a tenant that and don't want to call it a a duck because they might want to sell it to an elephant or whatever the case may be they want to have a different use don't want to deal with the change of use by declaring a use and I think we're allowing to play between the lines and I don't think it's right.

That's where I was going to go on it.

I think it's funny it's it's funny business.

Yeah I get that but I think they would would want to put a tenant in there.

For sure.

Yeah for sure they'd have to back you if they had a ten.

Yeah of course the goal the goal would be to get a tenant but in the meantime they're looking for a way to fill the space but I I get it that uh they probably just don't want to they don't want to have to pay the impact fees on the space for the time being when there's you know we don't necessarily have a use to tie to it we don't we don't know if it's gonna be retail we don't know if it's gonna be restaurant we don't know what it's gonna be.

Right.

Um but we we can determine what it can be temporarily for a few days here and there.

I think that's exactly it we kind of we spent a lot of time on the conservatory which they call maybe the veranda or whatever whatever they're calling it now out by the Tuscan Lake.

The big greenhouse thing.

Yeah and uh there's a lot of discussion back and forth about you know occupancy of that space what's temporary ultimately they pay the impact fees but I think it's the same thing.

I think they're trying to activate the space particular during those larger events but it is a little unique in that you know the space hasn't been previously occupied um which would would absolve some of that concern but um I mean I guess one thing we would do is we would continue to bring these back and you know we can track it too I mean if it's if they're really saying over the summer they're only going to use it twice um and then they come back for the holiday shops and maybe it kind of really is truly temporary that would that was my concern at the staff level is that if we just issue the permit for you for you know say five months or six months whatever it was um you know and now you're coming in for another one you know so we yeah can you do in uh um seasonal impact fee uh I mean why not we did we did that under the conservatory which was kind of interesting we you know they said there was gonna be occupied six months and we said okay but it paid us half the impact fees and then ultimately they shouldn't that but if it's on a seasonal basis then four times a year it has to renew.

That would that was my concern at the staff level is that if we just issue the permit for you for you know, say five months or six months, whatever it was, um, you know, and now you're coming in for another one, you know.

So we yeah.

Can you do an uh um seasonal impact fee?

Uh I mean why not?

We did we did that under the conservatory, which was kind of interesting.

We you know, they said there was gonna be occupied six months, and we said okay, but it pays half the impact fees.

And then ultimately they shouldn't that but if it's on a seasonal basis, then four times a year it has to renew.

That's what I'm talking about.

Impact fees are a one-time fee based on the specific use.

So it's not like you can charge an impact fee for the spring and then an impact fee for the fall, and that's the thing.

Yeah, but then there's a cap at a certain point.

They only ask it for two years.

When was that when was when did it expire?

In April.

Yeah, they were only asking since then.

So I don't know if it becomes an issue where they're keep they keep coming in and asking for stuff, then we should say you need to have a the same thing uh temporary permit like they did for April uh up to April.

Yeah, they they indicated that they maybe only occupied it uh from when the holiday shops closed through April, the end of April, they said a couple times.

I think there was a pet adoption event and there was maybe another one that they shared with me, but um they said it's been pretty pretty infrequent.

So uh I think at the at my level I thought we were trying to be accommodating and saying, let's leave it open-ended so you don't have to continuously come in.

I think they're saying we'd rather continuously come in.

Uh so demonstrate that it is a temporary space.

What that plan is for a tenant in there.

Uh I think the approved plan might have been restaurant space, I think.

Yeah, yeah.

In the early days, we're talking about split spot.

And I think that might be on the on the proof.

The approval goes back a little while now, but I think it was a restaurant space.

So I'll let them know um you know that we're okay with them continuing to come in on a temporary basis, and we'll monitor the let them know about it.

They kind of keep coming in and week after week more back tomorrow for us, yeah.

Yeah.

Um the elevations for building 1030.

So building 1030 is the um southern jewel building.

Uh so this is if you're at the fountain, it'd be towards the north of the fountain.

Um, and I believe each side mirrors the other, but I think this is the side that faces the fountain here.

So these were the uh elevations.

I think maybe last month you came in, they had a uh they had a window, I think, on this side, but not a window on this side.

Uh we issued the building for them to start the construction of the facade with the uh condition that they add a window for sim uh symmetry and uh to comply with your design guidelines.

So you have uh you had four windows on either side.

The applicant would like to uh eliminate windows uh four of the windows now, so eliminate the window here, eliminate the window here, and then add these um framed uh grates that would have um vegetation or uh it's not clear to me whether or not it would be real vegetation or faux vegetation.

We do have a uh ladder wall like this at um the southernmost market basket.

Um as you're coming in off 28, you can kind of see it uh when you're entering uh the market basket plaza.

Um why do they want to do that?

Uh the applicant states that um as discussed the windows make it difficult for retailers to have locations for merchandise along the walls of the building.

I know that we looked at some spandrel glass options, but those locations are really more back of house where the jewel buildings really do not have any back of house areas on the building, and then below is some of the uh items that I'm thinking.

So these are some of the examples.

I don't these are probably in climates.

Actually, you can see a palm tree here.

So these are probably in climates that do better with um some of these that you yeah.

Um those won't work here.

Yeah, it has to be artificial greenery.

I don't know why they'll yeah, there's one at market basket, and like I said, it's uh you know, could probably be better because obviously we don't have a great climate, but uh for for living walls.

But um wanted to bring it to you, you know, one the staff recommendation originally was uh you know, if they're concerned with the windows open into back a house, why don't you have them be uh spandrel glazing which we do see um along Rockin' Ham uh Park I'm sorry, yeah, Rockin' Park Boulevard.

I think at Nike that a full building has been drilled glazing behind it.

Um I think also the uh so the pottery barn building also uses spanduel glazing to accomplish the look of a uh window, so I guess uh maybe since I talked about it, I can show you okay with that.

It looks weird to me, but I mean it's weird.

What is my opinion about it for aesthetics?

So yeah, I mean it's so it it really be, you know, I would say it's it's less compliant with the design guidelines, but so these are the spandrel glaze, and then I think he's saying, well, those are back of house.

They certainly could do that.

And this instance, I mean they accomplished the uh you know, intention of the design guideline.

I think even maybe the Nike portion, I uh those are probably true windows, but um so isn't the point of the spandled glass just to hide so you don't see what's ugly in this inside.

Well, it yeah, it's it's essentially to accomplish the look of a window.

So a lot of times the spantral uh window behind it will actually be framed, you know.

So it it's uh you cut out the block like it were to be a window, but in terms of the interior program, and it doesn't really do anything.

Yeah, and it complies with your design guidelines.

So I mean that was kind of the staff recommendation.

This was what they came back as an alternative.

So I mean I would certainly be more in favor of the span to glass rather than a living wall.

Living walls will not work.

I agree in in this climate.

I like the glass too, totally keep the glass.

Yeah, it's okay.

Yeah, the only what you'd say, Mr.

Chair.

I I I don't know.

I mean aesthetics is if it's functioning, I'm okay with it.

I'm gonna leave the aesthetics to you.

Okay.

Well, I can go back and you know, let them.

It sounds like the preference is to um to keep it anyway, and um we can see what they come back with.

The other thing that we didn't talk about was um our you know, we did have the design uh our design guidelines.

Uh yeah, this is the precedent example at market basket off uh extreme.

It looks great.

Well, also I know how particular Mr.

Farrow is about just people going around picking up trash every morning around there, he's not gonna want a dying wall on this building.

Right.

Yeah.

Um okay, I'll bring that back.

I mean, the other thing is that like again, we did have the elevations.

They were formerly reviewed.

This was you remember it was a two-story building with one tenant, and then it changed, and then it kind of came in again with this one.

So um it just doesn't look like it fits.

Yeah, yeah.

I I don't disagree with you.

No, just the living wall.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I agree.

It does it doesn't move.

And even in this this year, with the amount of water we've had, it still hasn't grown there.

So I mean, I mean this what are they thinking?

Unless it's not a fish.

Yeah, this would have been 23.

I don't know why uh the computer shutting down it.

What gratery when you balcony in the apartment?

So that's not good.

Um other public matters, but the computer just shut down.

Motion to adjourn.

Yeah.

Second.

Yeah, probably.

Let me just at least that way I can uh just kidding.

Um, but yeah, so I I think I get the consensus that the board's preference is to keep it and and that was the decision notice that you issued, well, that we issued on your behalf uh for that area too.

Um so this is powering back up.

Maybe I can get it over here.

Um what do you got?

Tell us.

Trying to pull it.

Just describe the next public matter to us.

Yeah.

Yeah, we do have a zoning ordinances as well.

Uh so we talked about the elevations.

Let me see if I can cue this up real quick.

There we go.

Quick share.

What are those apartments across from the uh Tuscan that they're leasing now?

Epicurean.

Freaking gorgeous, man.

Yeah.

We went through them, they're amazing.

Yeah, for five grand a month, you can live pretty well.

Sixty-three hundred dollars.

Or two red bedroom.

I believe it.

Well, three bedrooms.

Not including garage.

Yeah, so we were at the zone and amendments, um, so I can have those queued up.

So I think the mortgage the first uh let me just make sure I didn't miss anything on the Republic Matters get thrown off there.

But I don't I don't think that's I think that's it.

Um I'll bring in the casino uh elevations to you soon.

Or our twilight 14th meeting.

So this one I think we were okay with.

It was really just to kind of clean up our permitted use table, educational uses, religious institutions, consolidate those with churches, and consolidate the educational uses under one category.

Uh mixed use building.

This goes back to 10 uh House Bill 1010 and 1588, which would require the uh allowance of mixed-use office, sorry, mixed use buildings in our commercial districts, um, and then personal services.

This goes back to 10 uh House Bill 1010 and 1588, which would require the uh allowance of mixed-use office sorry, mixed use buildings in our commercial districts, um, and then personal services, that's just to allow those personal services uses, salons, um, hairdressers, tattoo parlor, um, in the business office district, which was predominantly along Main Street.

Uh cigar bar, this was the change to the uh cigar bar and the um kennel uh provision.

So the board at the board's request it states that no cigar bar which operates after 10 p.m.

may be located within 750 feet from any residential rural garden apartment manufacturing home or recreational district.

So that was hope to uh and hope to accomplish.

What's the difference though?

I think it's good with that.

Well, what's what's different?

Yeah, I was at the time.

So we I think we did a couple different iterations.

Okay, and I think the board said, well, if it operates prior to 10 p.m.

What we were seeing was operations that would open like 10 p.m.

to 1 a.m.

some somewhere around that part.

So nightclub in essence.

Yeah, and there were large peak in factors, residential abutters were concerned.

So those are some of the other uh the ordinances, and then um the other ones thrown off here, sorry.

Do I have it?

You do a public hearing for the use table on the uh that cigarette we are.

We were actually initially gonna do it today, and then what we did is we postponed it because we postponed it because of the uh governor's pending action on those two house bills.

Okay, the way that we've currently proposed um house bill or sorry, uh uh to address HB 631, which is the original or uh house bill that requires us to uh have mixed use development in commercial districts was to um uh was to do it by conditional use permit, similar to what we do.

I don't know what's going on, Crita with your uh just so I'll scroll, I guess, uh to the bottom because that has the terminology.

I don't know why I can't.

All right.

Um delete the internet.

Yeah.

So these were the kind of the five ideas.

We had the permitted use table for churches and educational uses, personal service uses, and then the mixed use development, and then proximity of kennels and cigar bars.

So the one item that we didn't really talk so much about was the mixed use development.

Um this is that definition that we have talked about previously, and in addition to that, also put that language in the ordinance itself, so it is present here where it says a mixed use develop mixed use development uh developments, our structures with at least 33% of the ground floor area dedicated commercial uses.

Um we talked about height, so the height is consistent with what we see in the depot, which is four stories sixty feet.

Uh the residential density we talked a lot a bit a lot about.

Um, and right now it's proposed at two units per acre in the uh business office district.

So again, along uh main street, and then also in the limited community shopping village district.

One thing I just thought about was that the height in the business office district probably should be looked at.

I think four stories might be a little much on uh main street, uh, but unless the board feels comfortable with that.

But um right now it's uh two and a half stories, thirty-five feet.

So you know, four stories, sixty feet might be um a bit much on the main street corridor where there's some yeah, whatever two and a half stories means.

Yeah, there is a wood two and a half stories.

Um three they they very well, maybe three, but those were built what in the sixties probably.

Um so I mean they're we could look at three stories in the case.

Well, the the apartments across from Woodbury?

Yeah.

Yeah, those are definitely three.

Yeah.

Um but I think it the reason why it m may not have stood out to you, probably is because it's so far off of the street that it kind of feels like it it blends a little bit better.

And it doesn't feel like a true three-story because you're not it's not right up in your face, it's not right up the sidewalk.

It's Woodbury three stories or is two the school itself.

I think the school itself is two, but perhaps the entrances are a little bit taller.

Okay.

Well, Woodbury is well, there's three definite levels for the three grades when you go into the school.

So eight, there's definitely three stories.

Not right at the front, but at varying points.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, so maybe maybe three stories, but the project on Pleasant Street that they haven't started construction there yet, but how tall is that?

Do you remember?

Because I got a very four stories, yeah.

That's okay.

So maybe four stories is not a problem.

No, eight units at four stories.

Eight units at four stories.

Yeah.

If you guys are okay with that, we could do four.

Yeah.

It's heading our way, I think.

So yeah.

All right, so keep it four stories.

Uh do you want to keep it sixty feet?

Or four stories or sixty feet?

I I'm thinking uh to the to the master plan, and I I want to say that we had talked about this, and then the area closest to the depot along Main Street, we envisioned four stories.

But as you get further down towards further down Main Street towards the historic district, I think the intention was for that to fall down a little bit.

Um so I I'm not sure exactly where the business office office subdistricts end and if if it's a different district over at the deep over at the historic district.

It is, that's uh residential actually.

So there's some pretty existing uses there, like the old pharmacy and red barn, but um it's actually just on residential.

I think the business office district might end um at Lawrence Road.

And then um you are right, but I think I think the depot anticipated even uh greater height.

I think it might have been six stories, is uh if I remember correctly.

And that was it five.

It was it was up to five.

There was it it was between three and five.

There was uh uh talk about a a higher a a a higher height if affordable was included, something to that effect.

Okay.

I'm going off then.

Yeah, uh Creighton had just mentioned too that his recollection was five stories with a density incentive for affordable units.

Correct.

Um I mean, really up to the board if if you wanted to do three along Main Street or if you wanted to do four, and then the depot um actually the depot might just allow four right now.

I think we tried to go higher under the previous when we were gonna make the depot overlay district mandatory.

Um, but then that failed.

Uh can it reference the uh master plan so it would just it would it would be subject to the master plan.

So if there's different areas of Main Street or wherever where the master plan varies, what is allowed and and allow the master plan to guide it so you don't set uh hard and fast, it has to it has to fall within the parameters of the master plan.

I think that makes perfect sense.

Yeah, we we can cross-reference the master plan the way that we are currently proposing it, which again might be a moot point, and that's kind of why things stalled because if the governor signs it, then we wouldn't be able to allow it by conditional use permit.

But the way it's currently phrased, it says that the modification will be consistent with the spirit and intent of this chapter and the master plan.

So that was kind of the idea.

But in terms of the recommendations of the master plan, we could look to those and you know look at I mean one thing I I kind of wanted to do is also still you know have people utilize the depot village overlay because there was a lot of time and effort that went into that ordinance.

And I didn't want to kind of have this usurp the depot village overlay district, because I think there's a lot of you know, depot in Maine, I think was a success successful project, the Lapole project, even though they didn't move forward with, I think was you know uh an impressive project.

Even the auto zone, you know.

I think for um you know, a use that maybe wasn't what we envisioned the depot overlay.

I think it was very effective to guide that development and to get a product that um you know is pretty unique and kind of meets the intent of of what the town envisioned rather than just kind of your standard uh you know retail development.

So anyway, that was kind of one of the balance and acts I tried to do was to still keep some of the incentives that are in the depot village overlay to kind of maybe guide people to that.

But again, you know, uh that could all change if the government Well, I guess my point is that's not right, something that it conflicts with those other things that have already been developed.

Make it so make it subordinate to those so that it has to comply either this or what the other one says.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't think the master plan probably anticipated four stories along Main Street, so we could take a look at that.

When you say four stories, what is the height?

Well, that's a that's the question.

Right now it's four stories or something.

I think we need the height.

Four stories or sixty feet.

Yeah.

Yeah, so I mean, yeah, I don't think you want anything more than that.

I don't know, it seems really high to me.

What do we what else is sixty feet on on Main Street?

Nothing.

Probably not, not that I can think of, yeah.

How tall those power?

I think those power towers are sixty feet tall.

How tall is deep.

That's three stories, and it probably exceeds is maybe like forty-five or so.

Oh, it's that would keep it.

Well, that's a good point because the board had a lot of discussion on that project in particular.

I think um initially they came in for four stories.

The board said it was too high.

Yeah.

Uh lose a floor or make the first floor uh retail.

Yeah.

And they obviously lose a floor.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that that's a good idea.

Look to depot in Maine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, we did also um that would keep it consistent.

We did also permit the uh four story eight unit development on Pleasant Street.

But I think it's the same height.

That was um yeah, they did allege that.

I think they had different perspectives because of the grade, but um but that was by variance.

It's not that they also compared it to a church next door in the s the height of the steeples.

Back up, yeah.

Yeah, wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I think the board, my recollection was the planning board had maybe not fully agreed with the determination the ZBA made on that one.

So uh that's true.

But across the street, the other side of Pleasant Street, it's zoned, it's the height is is allowed.

That was the other issue too.

Yeah, kind of sort of the Tuscan side of it, it already allows that height.

So it's it was in the depot overlay, and that was in part because we were trying to cut a ring road over from uh Pleasant Street to Central Street, which became a moot point when Tuskin came in.

Um so there are portions where it would be allowed by conditional use permit in a mixed use development.

So there were some you know, there were some nuance there, but um, but ultimately my recollection was the board was concerned there were some you know one and a half story buildings directly across the street.

So it might change, but I think depot in Maine's a good precedent example.

I think the board gave a lot of thought to that project and we could kind of use that to guide the development uh in the business office district, and then we could also probably use that for the limited community shop and village district.

Um you know, the project that you just approved was in the limited community shop in village district.

Um and then you know, maybe the commercial industrial A, B, and C maybe four stories and sixty feet's okay.

One other quick point about the the height of depot in Maine.

If you're if you're standing on Main Street over by I don't know, the bank maybe even a little bit further down from that.

The grade change between depot and Main to Main Street is significant.

So you you might have a uh 60 uh 60 foot high on this side.

You know, but I mean I don't I don't foresee this happening.

I don't hope that it happens, but if the bank were to go away tomorrow, then and you put a 60 story building at the bank, it probably you know, driving driving down South Broadway, you probably wouldn't really notice much of a height difference between depot and Maine and the bank.

There's a hill there.

It's a huge hill.

Yeah, that's true.

Where the monument is uh park is now exactly.

Yeah, the the other thing that would be uh I guess unfortunate if we are not able to do it by um conditional use permit is that you would lose the ability uh to kind of waive some of those provisions.

So there are uh language in there that would allow you to vary like so an instance like that.

If if an applicant comes in, they're able to make a good case uh you know of why they can exceed the required height.

You know, the planning board would have the ability to do that the way that this is currently proposed, which is what you did um for depot in Maine.

You know, depot in Maine came in and made the case that they should be allowed to have the building without the um retail use at three stories and whatever the the height was.

Um so I think I think depot in Maine is a good example of how innovative land use can work, you know, especially with when you have a planner board that buys into it.

Um so you know we'll we're probably I don't want to guess it'll be interesting to see what we have to do if if uh that bill becomes law because um it would be kind of more of a buy right use, it would be a buy right use, and then we would have more uh or you'd have more limited review of what you can um require.

Still could require a height though, right?

Yes, you can require height and setbacks, which is interesting because those are the things that you generally waive anyway.

I mean the depot in Maine project has a seven-foot setback, you know.

I mean, that was something that the planning board approved.

The applicant came in, presented it as a conditional use permit for reduced parking.

Yeah, um, so you know, it the idea is that you know you still have kind of the guardrails, you still have the uh master plan, the design guidelines to hang your hat on.

So we're waiting until um there's certainty in the legislature or signing what the governor's gonna do with these open bills.

Yeah, I'll take another look because I I think that the governor is vetoed and signed a handful, and I didn't see anything specifically about those two, they're their tandem bills.

Um and I didn't see anything specifically about those.

You know, if the governor hasn't, then you know, one thing we might want to do is just you know post this as a public hearing because we do want to have something on the books.

Um law is effective July 1.

So you know I think we do want to post something and then we can always modify it if need be if we post this and the governor has signed it or is about you know does sign it, then we can kind of revisit it and see what needs to be modified.

But uh let's do that then use the uh depot main as a height uh instruction for consistency.

It does not look like there's any um any action from the governments uh governor sign.

And she could, it has been, I mean, we've seen a lot of communication and uh you know the plan and network about uh about these bills, so it could be that she just allows it to become law without you know signature.

Um but we we won't know for a little bit.

The uh ADU law, I think she signed that last year in she signed it maybe like mid-July, so it became retroactive if you recall.

So it was it was effective July 1, but the law was signed in like mid-July.

Yeah.

So that's kind of the idea.

Uh regardless of what she does with with this legislation, July 1 of this year, HB 631 will be effective.

So let's probably if the board's comfortable with kind of this as presented, let's at least notice this as a public hearing for July 14th.

And if we need to modify it, we can do so depending on what she does.

So let's move on.

Okay.

You have more housing discussion?

I I had one quick question about the um definition of mixed use development.

Are we are we implying with this definition that it would not automatically include residential?

Because mixed use could be just a mix of commercial uses.

But if we are wanting to see mixed use development including residential, then we should probably explicitly state that.

Um I guess I didn't really think about uh yeah, because I think we're generally not thinking about you know, like 97 shops, so that's a mixed use, I guess, development prior to the residential.

Right.

Uh there's uh you know restaurants and office, but I think we're more so looking at mixed use development um as uh contained in that uh residential component, which is consistent with the depot village overlay, because if you remember correctly, I think it's state specifically that it needs to be a mixed use development, and then I think there was uh argument at one point that uh because there's a bank over here and a commissary over here that it doesn't necessarily need to be contained all within the same building, that it could be on the same campus.

But I think we've really kind of looked at the residential as being the component that makes it a mixed use development.

I agree.

Uh it may be it may be worth considering that.

And then also if you haven't yet heard back from legal about the um the percentages um being included in the definition.

Yeah.

We probably should.

Yeah, because then you're right.

The fallback I guess would be that it would be uh mixed use retail office, uh residential, that kind of but we we can work on that, yeah, and get it posted.

That's all that's uh I think that's all I have.

That's it.

Well, we have a motion to adjourn in a second.

All in favor.