Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the town council meeting for June's uh well June 16th, 15th.

I'm sorry.

June 15th.

If everybody would please rise and join uh Miss Wright in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Hi I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

And I thank you.

No, thank you.

Just a moment for introductions now.

Starting all the way to my left.

At the very end of the day, is Mr.

DJ Betancourt.

Good evening.

Next to him coming towards me is Keith Stromalia.

Good evening.

Again, coming towards me, Mr.

Paul Pelletier.

Good evening, Phil.

Again, Jeff Hatch.

Good evening, Sayon.

And next to me on my left is the vice chair of the board, uh Joe Sweeney.

Good evening.

To my immediate right is the board secretary, uh, Lisa Whithrow.

Good evening.

To her right is Kathy Stacy.

Good evening.

And to her right is Barney Wright.

Hello, Salem.

And all the way at the end on the right is our town manager, Mr.

Joe Devine.

We have several members of the town staff in attendance, and we will get to those as we go through the process.

My name is Bob Bryant, and indeed it's a pleasure for me and an honor to serve as the chairman.

I will introduce Ms.

Withrow for minutes.

Just one tonight.

I would move that we approve June 1st, 2025, public 2026 public session.

Second.

Motion has been made and seconded.

We'll just change the date on the agenda.

All those in favor.

Thank you very much.

Chairman comments.

Chairman comments that it's uh it's June.

Uh most of us would like to be on vacation, so there will be no chairman comments.

Uh approve the consent agenda.

Mr.

Chairman.

Mr.

Sweeney.

Mr.

Chairman, at this time I move we approve the consent agenda.

Second.

Motion made and seconded by Mr.

Stromalia.

All those in favor.

Again, nine to zero.

Moving quickly along, additions and requests by the public are counseled by vote.

Now's the time.

That we allow the public to uh come up, and the first name I have up here is Georgia.

If you'd like to come up and speak about what you'd like to speak about.

She's on the conservation commission.

She might like to speak later.

Yeah.

Are you both wanting to speak later at the uh when we get to that conservation?

Make sure we have that off at the end of the last time when we came in our age.

There's a process.

All right.

When we get there, you don't have to raise your hand or anything.

I've got it right here.

We'll see how that goes.

Employee of the month, Mr.

Devine, please.

Great.

So I'm pleased to recognize Todd Welch as the June June Employee of the Month.

I invite Todd to come on up.

Or have Mutual Services Director Wayne Amrell is also with him.

All right.

Say a few words.

Thank you for having uh us tonight.

Uh Todd's here to join us.

And uh I just want uh to say Todd has been a valuable member of the engineering division and has been consistently demonstrating dedication to the town and its residents over the past year.

The division has faced staffing challenges, including operating without a full complement of engineering staff.

During this time, Todd has assumed additional responsibilities and played a critical role in ensuring projects continue to move forward without disruption, whether managing large capital projects, overseeing ongoing engineering initiatives or handing handling the day-to-day responsibilities of the division.

Todd has strong has shown strong commitment to maintaining the high standards expected of this department.

His willingness to take on additional work and adapt to challenging changes, changing demands has helped the division remain productive during a particular challenging period.

Thank you, Todd.

Come on up front tub.

Yeah, we'll good.

No, wait.

You're all set way.

Very nice.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Lisa, I like your hair.

Thank you.

Nobody ever says that to me.

Bob, I like your hair.

It's nice and shiny.

Yeah, just buffed it up this afternoon.

All right.

Number seven on the agenda was a second reading in adoption.

So if we could.

Sure.

So this will be for resolution 2026-11.

Um is to consider the outside human services agency funding policy.

At your June 1st meeting, the council discussed the proposed revision of the outside human service agency funding policy, including your packet of those documents.

Assistant town manager Colleen Mayo is here to answer any additional questions that the council may have.

Anyone have any questions with regards to the human services uh donation policy?

Ms.

Withrow.

Hello.

Hello.

Um, you may have covered this last time and I don't remember, so I just want to be sure.

I know we can't stop anybody from coming forward for with an article, but is it in is it at least in the agreement that the officers or whoever from the charity won't be looking for that if we're working them into the budget already?

It's not in the policy.

It is something that we can communicate separately to the officers of the um of the organizations that if we're including them, then we would expect that they not be submitting a citizen's petition.

As you said, we can't restrict any group of 25 citizens from filing a petition.

But um we we could look at adding language to the policy if the council um I mean it could be an agreement that they agreed, it doesn't mean somebody else wouldn't do it anyway.

Exactly.

I mean, if we're going to put them in the budget for what they need to cover the costs of what we're doing, the with what their services, I mean, it would seem like the right thing to do to not double dip.

So personally, I'd love to see some language in there that said that you know if we're gonna be working with the town and in the budget, we'd love we will agree to not do a warrant article.

Citizens petition.

I think we can add language that covers that.

And I think that if the board um wants to, if there are other questions, I'm happy to answer them.

But if the board wants to still make a motion and include that language and leave it to staff to update this to include that, or if you'd prefer for us to come back with that language at a future meeting um before you move ahead.

I'm fine with tonight.

Adding it, amending it, and doing it tonight, but I'm just one person, so I'll read it in.

Okay.

Okay.

We're gonna read it in.

Okay.

Anything further?

Anyone else?

Mr.

Swing.

Mr.

Chairman, uh, this time I move that the Salem, New Hampshire Town Council adopts resolution number 2026 11.

This resolution shall take effect upon its passage as follows.

Whereas the Salem Town Council has the authority to establish policies and procedures for the town of Salem, New Hampshire, and whereas the town of Salem is obligated to is obligated to adopt guidelines for general assistance under RSA 165 and to provide assistance to individuals, and whereas the Salem Town Council recognizes that the services provided by outside human services agencies may fill gaps in essential services that the town would be obligated to provide.

And whereas the town of Salem seeks to clarify the policies and procedures relating to the funding of outside human services agencies.

Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Salem Town Council that the Salem Town Council hereby adopts the town count the town funding of outside human services agencies policies with the addition from Councillor Withrow tonight.

Second motion been made in second, and anything further?

Not seeing anything.

All those in favor.

We have nine to zero.

Okay.

Next up, first read and uh waiver for another resolution, Mr.

Devine.

So this will be for resolution 26-12, which is to consider transfer state transfer station funding policy.

Including your package with a staff report from Mrs.

Town Manager Colley Mayo relating to establishing a policy of fundraising at the transfer station.

Just hear from policies this evening.

Um so Mr.

Chair members of the council, um, as you are likely aware, um, there are a number of um organizations that do fundraising at the transfer station.

There has been no formal written policy in the past.

The unwritten policy has been that a Salem-based organization that is located in Salem and is fundraising for the benefit of um the Salem community.

Um so some of our different local youth sports or other organizations are are um frequently um using the transfer station for fundraising.

This is just in order to give us something that is some written guidance for who can fundraise.

We do get occasional questions, and it is challenging when we can't point to someone to something and tell them this is who can and can't fundraise.

We also thought it was just important to set a few very basic safety guidelines in here so that way anyone who is applying to fundraise at the transfer station is agreeing that they understand they can't be interfering with transfer station operations, they're being um contained to you know the dedicated area for fundraising, and just trying to make sure that we're um improving safety for folks who are out there.

Um we will be continuing the um to only allow one group per day just so that way we're not overcrowding, and it is going to be done um right now it's done through the town manager's office.

This will now be done through the municipal services division since they have direct oversight over the transfer station.

So basically a first comes first serve policy to um to reserve um fundraising.

So happen to answer any questions the council may have, but um, this is really just to kind of codify the what the past practice has been.

Mr.

Betancourt.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

So the policies as they pertain to safety related matters, making sure that people are not interfering with people coming in or out of the transfer station one group per day, so that you don't have a huge group of people down there.

That all makes perfect sense to me.

But in terms of the other criteria, are we aware of any groups that have currently or in the past been able to be down there that are going to be excluded under this new policy?

No, all the groups that have fundraised over the past several years would still be permitted to fundraise.

There's no one who's currently been doing it that would be excluded.

This is really just giving that unwritten policy some some language that backs it up.

So the point there was just to make sure people are aware.

We're just trying to maintain safety and order, not trying to exclude certain groups over others.

So I hope that's the takeaway of this discussion.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Mr.

Pelletea, thank you.

And the and the uh area of the fundraising is it still in that cement pad by the trailer.

Exactly.

All right, and nowhere else on the province.

Nowhere else, the cement pad.

Thank you.

Anybody else?

Not seeing anyone, Mr.

Sweeney.

Mr.

Chairman, at this time I move that the Salem New Hampshire Town Council adopts resolution number 2026 12 and policy number 2026 4 relating relating to fundraising at the transfer station and further weighs the requirement for a second reading.

This resolution shall take effect upon its passage as follows.

Whereas the Salem Town Council has the authority to establish policies and procedures for the town of Salem, New Hampshire, and whereas the town council recognizes that Salem-based nonprofit and community organizations may at times request to conduct fundraising activities at the Salem Transfer Station, and whereas the town seeks to ensure that fundraising activities at the transfer station are conducted in a safe and organized manner that does not interfere with transfer station operations.

Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Salem Town Council that the Salem Town Council hereby adopts the fundraising at the transfer station policy.

Second second motion made and seconded by Ms.

Whitrow.

Seeing no further discussion, all those in favor.

I got nine-zero.

Thank you.

Moving on with number nine, Mr.

Devine uh police department business.

Yes.

Under new business, um, we're announcing the retirement of K9 Dash, and we're looking to authorize the release of the dog to Officer uh Paul Benoit, including your memo with a package from uh including your package with a memo from police chief Joe Dolan, who's here to speak to that tonight.

Thank you, Mr.

Manager.

Good evening, Council.

Mr.

Chair.

Uh my name's Joel Dolan.

It's honored to serve as your chief of police.

Uh it's kind of a little bit of an end of an era today as uh I make this request.

Uh Officer Paul Benoit has served the uh town of Salem as a K9 officer for almost 20 years uh with this first K9 till uh almost uh a little over eight years in Dash uh dog uh K9 uh we're discussing this evening has served the town of Salem since May of 2015 uh until his uh retirement tonight, effective at midnight, because I actually believe they're working their last uh evening shift together.

So uh as is customary with retiring canines, we do request that they uh the handler is allowed to take them on as a pet um as much as they can be a pet after working for so many years, but uh that is a the customary practice in in law enforcement for the canine handler to take ownership of their partner.

I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Questions on the policy?

It's always been a practice as far as I've been around.

Always see I don't know who else would be able to handle the dog.

Uh that it it it's not that it's difficult, but there there are places that do take it, but it it's not right.

It it's it's uh you know I I know he's he's been on the policy town, but he is part of the family.

Yeah.

All right, I'll take a motion.

Mr.

Sweeney, Mr.

Chairman, at this time I move to authorize the town manager to sign any and all forms necessary to formalize the release slash purchase of police canine dash to canine officer Paul Benoit.

Second, second.

Motion been made, seconded by Mr.

Betancourt.

All those in favor.

Thank you very much.

I will let uh Paul know.

I'm sure him and his family will be happy.

And on uh just to add to that, uh uh Officer Ruben Jimenez and K9 Stone graduated from the Boston Police Canine Academy last Friday, June 12th.

And they uh have already begun patrol operations.

So we uh we end up down any members of the canine unit.

Awesome.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you, uh next up uh nine B community development.

Uh next up uh nine B community development, Mr.

Devine.

So this is the considered request from the Conservation Commission to acquire land off Norwin Road.

So the Conservation Commission is seeking approval from town council uh to acquire seven lots off Norwood Road.

The cost of the parcels is five hundred thousand dollars and will be designated for conservation purposes.

Community development program manager Cream Brewbaker is here to speak to that.

Uh good evening, uh Mr.

Chair and members of the council.

Should have a short presentation for this item.

Um so uh like Manager Devine said, this is the conservation commission is uh looking to the council uh for approval for seven lots on Norwood Road for 500,000.

This is in accordance with our say 36A4.

Uh this acquisition is proposed to be entirely funded from the conservation fund with no Salem taxpayer dollars um for this purchase.

So the CONCOM has been working diligently for the last several years towards land acquisition goals, uh specifically for this parcel.

I think it goes back about seven to ten years.

Uh this landowner uh has worked on and off with town staff.

Uh think going back to Ross Moldoff to hopefully eventually sell to the town for conservation purposes.

The land, as you can see on the right hand side, uh the yellow parcels that are uh on there.

Uh in total, it's just about uh ten acres.

There's just over ten acres, and then the shoreline, which is along Arlington Pond, it's like a cove off Arlington Pond, uh has about a quarter mile of waterfront access.

Uh the the purchase would be to deed restrict the land for conservation purposes only.

Uh and then uh this is again this land is off Arlington Pond, which is one of the town's uh drinking water sources and would lead to positive contributions toward the watershed and the water quality on Arlington Pond.

Kind of consistent with the town wide master plan.

Uh on page 89 of the plan, uh the the community uh during our process when we went through public uh workshops and whatnot.

Uh the the residents of the community kind of showed an interest in preserving open spaces and recreation spaces.

Uh specifically on page 89 of the master plan, it says uh to reflect the community's interest and beautification and access to natural resources such as public water bodies, and then additionally on that page, uh it aligns with the goal.

This acquisition would align with a goal to broaden the community's dwindling opportunities to maintain and enhance rec conservation and open space.

Uh the conservation commission arrived at this price for $500,000 with the seller.

Uh the purchase part again, the purchase price and other associated costs would be entirely out of the concom fund uh with no taxpayer Salem taxpayer money going towards that.

And then as is typical with the land acquisition, a title search and a phase one environmental side assessment uh would be done.

Uh if you could go to the next slide, Joe.

Uh again, so uh this is some of the last undeveloped land around Arlington Pond.

Uh and then the water quality and the master plan references I mentioned there.

So this is kind of the area that you can see.

This is the seven lots again, just over 10 acres off of Arlington.

And then if you go to the next one, this is just the slide and map geo.

And then the next one kind of zooms out and shows you where we are in terms it's that orange in the kind of middle right uh off of Arlington Pond.

Uh the next one.

So it we took pictures of the different entrances.

So this is off Emerald Drive, uh, and then Norwood Road.

Um, as you can see, it's kind of uh lots of trees and kind of the entrance is uh a trail path, an informal trail that exists on Norwood Road.

Uh and again you can see there's kind of paths already established there, which are very nice.

Uh there's waterfront views again over a quarter mile of shoreline along Arlington Pond.

And then this is just another kind of the land being undeveloped, and then this is a very nice picture that we we got uh uh from the property.

So happy to answer any questions.

I'm taking questions speak first.

Yeah, well, let's let's do that first.

Go ahead.

Hi, uh George of Brest, 86 Brookdale Road.

Um, I've been working with Mrs.

Suffron for the last six months, um, communicating with her.

Her brother had passed um and she acquired the land.

Uh he was Ed Seffrin, I believe he was on planning or zoning.

Um and she had mentioned that before he passed, he wanted to leave the land um to the town for conservation, and he passed before he was able to do the do that.

Sorry, you guys make me nervous.

I don't know why.

Um weird.

Um it's just these guys.

It's just all of them.

We're well good.

Uh so I just wanted to let you know that that was Carolyn and Ed's wishes that they hope that it could be come conservation at one point.

So Salem could enjoy.

That's all I had.

Um, did you guys have any questions or Joe?

I have a question for you.

Or Mr.

Speaker.

Mr.

Sweeney, thank you, and thank you, Georgia, for coming.

I'm not super familiar with conservation land and how the town can acquire it.

Is it only possible for the town to buy the land or can the town be given the the land?

Um she could have donated it, but she's not in the position financially to donate the land.

Okay.

So any Mr.

Hatch.

First of all, I like to Mr.

Sufferons served many years on the zoning board.

I got had the opportunity to serve with them.

And you're right, he always talked about that property being preserved and never being built on.

Um why I don't know, but it was just uh something he talked about.

And he uh and he always enjoyed you know walking through there and watch watching the deer and all that other stuff.

So my only question is is what is your plan with it as far as how uh the how is the community going to be able to use it if it becomes conservation land?

Is there going to be parking area where someone can park a car and walk down and go fishing, walk through the you know the wooded area, you know, and how you're gonna maintain it because a lot of times, especially in this area of I uhlington pond, that some of these lots that remained empty for quite some time, you know, the neighborhood start dumping all their trash, leaves and yard ways where the kids start riding their motorbikes through it and things like that.

So, how are you going to maintain it and pro and prevent that stuff from happening?

So, to our advantage, it's been vacant for a while in the neighborhood, is kind of taking it on as their own trail system.

Um so we did a site walk there, and there is actually pretty much through every parcel, there's already created paths, and they have like landscape tarp down, somebody's come in with wood chips, they've sniffed back brush kind of a few feet off the trail.

Um, so we would just kind of upkeep that.

We would send um we kind of talked about maybe sending like a letter to the abutters and letting them know that conservation is acquired it, and if there's any certain residents that's been caring for it, if they want to reach out to us and kind of do um like a cleanup, kind of like a town forest.

It's not obviously as big as the town forest, but it's almost has better views for people to come and enjoy if they wanted like a sit spot to come and relax.

So I think adding benches, we could do that.

Um, but just kind of doing what we do in the town forest, volunteer maintenance would be ideal.

Um but for parking, there's a large um spot down where the photo, I don't know if you can bring that back up.

Um, but we have plans for an entrance A and entrance B if we were to acquire the land.

Um and at the end of one of the call decess, we can fit a good amount of cars.

Um, and then where the Norwood Road um is, if you were zoomed out from there, there's a whole um pavement parking area that's already existing that we would just continue off of.

Um and kids have been using it with the basketball um hoops in their area already.

So that ends.

So Stacy.

Yeah, so I went up there.

I walked it, I drove up, and what you're talking about is just the road extension where the kids are have a basketball hoop up there, and then it goes into the trail beyond.

I don't think there's a lot of parking there myself.

I know there's a little spot where you could kind of turn around to try to get back to turn back to go up the road.

And I've got to tell you, if I was on Emerald Drive and I'm that house here and here, I'm not gonna be happy with people coming and parking all in that cul-de-sac.

We did speak with the landowners at both ends um when we were doing our site walk, and they were all thrilled to find out that the land was going to be conservation.

Um and that over there.

And then and they know that there's gonna be people coming up there and parking.

We told them that they're we were gonna advertise it as a walking trail and conservation land, and they were fine with that.

I guess hunters already um used the land until uh they posted it, and then during COVID, I think when she put it into current use, she had to unpost it, and so they've already had traffic using the land.

Um they said that they've had a few different cars come in that don't belong in the neighborhood, so they're already, I think, familiar with cars coming in and out.

Yeah, so I will say there are a lot of deer up there because when I was up there, they were all over the place, which is which is nice to see, which is really nice to see.

Um, and I'm glad you mentioned current use because the current use dates back many many years.

So, how is that gonna be handled?

Because when it comes out of current use, it's supposed to be a payment.

So I don't know too much detail into that.

I believe Chris or Creighton could answer that better.

I do know that the 10 acres that we're acquiring.

Um, I don't know if there's a penalty when it comes to into conservation.

Um, but she does have 40 Norwood Road on um listed right now for sale.

Uh and she I read in that stipulation, and she wants whoever buys that to pay the fee for current use coming.

Well, they they have to, but all the lots are part are part of that current use.

Every single one of these lots.

Yep.

So I think when we buy the 10 acres, um if it's going into conservation, you don't have to pay the fee on current greyton.

Shed some light.

Yep.

So Craig Brewbaker, community development.

So we looked into this.

I talked with the assessing department uh and the assessing talked with uh the department of revenue.

So the the lots were uh hopefully going to the that the conservation commission is hopefully to purchase, that's just over 10 acres, so that would stay in current use.

It's just the commission would own that, and then there's another parcel the owner owns.

And so when either this um sale happens or they sell that land, that would be taken out of current use, and they would pay the current use on that one parcel.

But if the town, if the commission acquires this, it'll stay the 10 acres and it'll stay under current use.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Gotcha.

Anybody further?

Mr.

Pellophere.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

You know, 99 and a half percent of the time I'm always with conservation.

Um although this lot, this partial over here has got me a little confused a little bit.

Uh maybe not confused, but concerned mostly.

Uh I'm still in a position of always creating uh a higher tax base for the town to rev for more revenue for the town for taxes.

Um first of all, I'm just wondering if each one of these seven lots can be broken up into separate lots.

Uh the two upper land, two upland lots, uh 10785, 10786, that are not waterfront, but they are water views.

Uh to me, those could be sold to a developer to uh to to rent it to uh build build homes on those two so they have uh water views anyways.

The and then actually the other ones on the water are very steep, yeah, and uh and probably not not billable.

Um in the future, I'm just wondering if even if you do buy this lot if it this whole thing, if it could be broken up into separate lots for sale for two of those lots to pay back what you put into it, number one, uh, and and to create further revenue for the town through taxation.

So originally when we were working this deal, those two lots we weren't working with Carolyn on it.

She wanted to keep those and sell them to developers.

Um she decided about halfway through um this like six months period that she wanted to give those to conservation as well because she didn't want to break up the animals' habitat uh once she found out from us going there how much wildlife is in the area.

She has since about 2014 has gotten 10 or so different letters from developers, um, and she has told everybody know and she is very adamant that she does not want to develop the lots.

So if we weren't to acquire those and she was to keep them, she had said she would just hold on to them until she passed and would leave them to her son in the process to continue until it would go that way.

Um but she doesn't have intentions on letting those lots get developed just for the sake she didn't want to break up the wildlife's habitat.

So he might have more on that.

If in your phone in your photo, there's uh in your photo that one partial uh 10785 is highlighted.

Why is that highlighted?

Is that a potential parking area or is that 1078?

Yeah, if you look at their picture top right, the top right, yeah.

I think um the top right, yeah, top, yeah, upper one.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, we had them from the right.

On the right, right.

That one there, yeah.

Yeah, that's you have that highlighted in your photo for some reason.

Yeah, that's one of the lots of purchased.

So the owner owns all the yellow, and then the one on the top left.

That's 107.

Yeah.

I mean, in your photo in your in your in your oh that I just took a screenshot and it was on there.

There's no okay, so it's open.

The first lot you select has a little highlight on it.

Yeah, so it's all right.

We're gonna have all right.

Hello, my name is Chris Chris.

Chris Goodnow, and by the way, the chairman scares me as well.

Um Mr.

Goodna, uh, did you put your name on the list?

I did not.

But I always uh jumped in anyway.

He knows why I did that.

So real briefly discussion about uh not buying the back two lots.

We think there's value in the contiguity, contiguous nature of this to get to a certain mass of land that's important.

Number one.

Number two, I'm an advocate for additional housing in this community.

I think the tax base is a compelling argument for me in particular.

Um, but this particular area is septic and well.

Um, and we're gonna see we're gonna have to see density in order to get to the workforce housing and the various uh home segments that this community desperately needs.

I don't think this is a prime candidate for that.

Um so I think the concept of additional housing and conserving land are not uh in conflict with each other, and that we can achieve both.

Number one, and number two, there are very finite number of parcels that fit that criteria that's environmentally sensitive, that we have the funds to actually compete with the private sector, uh, and that don't impact the future dense growth of this community or affordable housing or a variety of different housing types.

So I think these concepts are are definitely compatible.

Um, and I think that the value we're receiving here, there's money being transferred, but seven lots, even if they are paper lots for $70,000, basically, a lot, is something that is not representative of market conditions.

It is more robust than that in Salem.

Uh so this among other things, uh, environmentally and for a variety of reasons is a good value, it's a good economic value as well.

Um, so that's why the commission and and Creighton uh felt that it was a compelling argument to bring forth to tonight.

Thank you.

Okay, thanks.

Kate, did you have anything that you wanted to bring forward that hasn't been spoken about?

Or are you back there somewhere?

Oh, yeah, there you are.

The lights are killer up here.

We can we uh don't worry, I'm about to shine even more brightly.

So hey all, it's nice to see you.

Uh Caitlin Fitzpatrick, 62 Hawkinsland Drive.

Um I would just say, um, just on top of everything that these folks have said, just a reminder that um the funds that we'd be using to buy this land uh doesn't impact taxpayers.

Um and that I don't know, I was sitting back there doing math.

So maybe we trust this, but it's uh the amount that we're spending.

Uh I think we make about like I don't know, we make we make a decent amount in interest on the um conservation budget at the moment.

Um so I think this to buy this land where it is and use it for what it is, we're only using about 26% of our budget, and then with the money that we make every year in interest, we're actually only using like 14% of our current budget, um, which is pretty cool that we'd be able to get this as a resource for Salem to utilize um all together.

And then also just to call out that umlington pond, right?

It's I believe it's our winter backup source of water behind Canaby.

Um I am in the business of development.

Um these are really steep, ledgy lots, particularly along the waterfront.

So it would be very worrisome for these to be developed, particularly for stormwater runoff, sedimentation, road salt impacts, fertilizer and chemical uh runoff.

I'm sure you guys have been seeing all sorts of things in the news, how there's like algae blooms and all sorts of funk growing up in Winnipeg Sauke and all that stuff.

Because I mean, if you're buying a waterfront lot, you need to have a beautiful lawn, right?

So just a couple more uh considerations there.

Um but yeah, so I guess those are just the bits and pieces that I'd like to add.

And as far as you know, losing the uh the potential tax revenue, I agree with you.

I thought that too.

I was like, that's like that's money that could be going back to all of us, right?

And um just sort of like my counter to that would be uh just speaking with uh Miss Suffren and hearing what George has been saying, and um and also just again being in development myself, like these are expensive.

They would have to be if we wanted to break them up in any way with the zoning, you know, laws and all that sort of stuff, it'd be really it'd be difficult to break them up even further to have even more.

Um, I mean, I think these are zoned rural.

Um, and so then you know, you need a minimum of five acres to even split them in half, and then again, as Chris was saying with the septic and wells and all that stuff.

I literally had a phone conversation trying to spill it up a lot today in Salem.

That's zoned rural, and I was like, good Lord.

But it's good because we're preserving all of it, right?

So, anywho, that's my two cents.

Um yeah, that's what I'm gonna leave.

So thanks, all right.

Thank you.

This right.

Um, just wanted to point out that we frequently have Eagle Scouts who are looking for projects, and I can think of several projects that they could do on this lot or this area.

Okay, Mr.

Bettencourt.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

For the purposes of keeping the show on the road, I have a motion.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

I would move that in accordance with RSA 36-a, colon 4, that the town council authorizes the conservation commission to purchase map 22 lots 10 uh 785 through 10791 and further authorize the town manager to sign any and all documents necessary to effectuate and finalize the agreement, and I have some comments behind uh my motion's been made by Mr.

Betoncourt and seconded by Mr.

Hatch.

I'm gonna recognize Miss Whitrow first because she had something to say prior to the time that you made your motion.

So I uh hope to keep it as expedient as you, but uh, I do have a couple couple issues.

Um there were so many points brought up and many of them valid.

I'm not gonna dismiss any of them, but my my opinion is a little bit different.

I agree that uh work house for us housing doesn't work there, but more expensive homes could work there, which does increase the tax base.

Um she's made it very clear she's not gonna sell them to developers, yet we're gonna spend money on them.

I'd rather save the money, not spend it and have her just not develop it.

If she desperately doesn't want to develop, she can donate it to the town.

Um she could even sell two of them and donate the rest so she makes her money.

Um so I'm for many reasons I'm not in favor of this.

Not usually.

I'll give you a minute.

Yeah, we don't, yeah, we don't usually get back and forth with the discussion.

So if you want to come up and make another statement, that's fine.

Sure.

So I agree, and I and I hear your concerns, right?

Because I mean, let's be real.

I was looking at these and I was like, I want that for a house.

Like you know what I mean?

Like it's awesome.

Yeah, you can get a really gorgeous over million dollar house on that.

Like this stunning.

And man, is that some tax money?

But really looking at them, how steep they are, the ledge that is there, the amount of engineering that would be required to put homes in there would be astronomical.

A developer, because again, I am a developer, would never get that money back.

So they would see these as not really being valuable.

Now, a couple of the lots I understand, maybe that story is different, but again, these are zoned rural.

I do not believe that there is town water and sewer that go out to these homes.

Um, so they'd also have to be on a septic and a well, and there's all sorts of setbacks and time and requirements.

And if I'm gonna buy a lot like that, and I want a multimillion dollar house on Allington Pond, I can't have it because I can't only build a teeny tiny house there because that's all that's gonna fit to make the utilities work into the house.

So that's just kind of some extra thoughts there.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Mrs.

Swainy.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

So I hear everything tonight, and I agree with it all.

And I don't think anything I've heard convinces me the conservation commission needs to buy this land in order for it to be preserved as conservation land, and I worry that it's a bad deal for the conservation commission and it's a bad deal for the town, but it's a good deal for the trust that owns it.

I mean, they're listing the 40 Norwood Road, which is the eighth parcel that they own.

It's on Zillow for 499,900.

And in the description, it says pending final town approval.

This lot is anticipated to abut a stunning new 10-acre conservation area featuring walking trails, scenic overlooks, and direct access to nature with ample space for a luxury custom home.

The possibilities are endless.

That's in the Zillow for the 40 Norwood lot.

That's the eighth lot that's not being uh bought from the conservation commission.

I just think everything we heard about the steep slopes and the fact that the owner doesn't want to develop it.

I view if it's 26% of the conservation funds or 14% after you do the interest math.

If we lower if we spend that 500,000, we generate less interest in the conservation.

And then that's money that you can't spend buying land that could be developed that you would rather protect.

And I I think everyone knows I want everywhere.

I probably don't see houses fitting there, but I also don't see anything going there that would require the town to step in and say, hey, we want to preserve this land because it's probably gonna be preserved naturally with or without conservation spending $500,000 for it.

Um maybe one or two lots gets built, but I think that shoreline, I mean, each lot is roughly over an acre, but the shoreline protection act and everything that the state DES would have you go through, you're not building a house on the water there.

Uh it's not the 60s and 70s anymore.

So I don't see the compelling need for conservation to go in and protect this land, because I just don't see getting developed otherwise.

And you guys save that $500,000 that you would spend on this and go buy open space that is that threat to actually be developed that you could turn into recreation space and conservation space that everybody in town can access, not just the neighborhood.

If they want to sell, look, they're trying to sell the 40 Norwood.

If they sell that and they want to put the rest of it in a deed restriction, they still get $500,000 from the land cell there.

Or if they want to sell one more additional lot, the one that's highlighted that touches the road still, maybe they could do something there, small, but even something, and then they put the rest in, keep it in current use or donate it to the conservation commission.

I think that's a much better deal for the CONCOM and for the town.

So I can't support the purchase tonight.

I just I think there's a better deal out there for the land.

I don't think there's an urgency that would necessitate, you know.

You only have so much funds in CONCOM because it's when current use gets taken out, and then they have to pay the back taxes into you know, with the formula into the conservation fund.

So there's a limited bridge and window as to how we're going to generate that money.

So I just think I this doesn't pass the smell test for me.

I think they're gonna sell 40 Norwood, somebody's gonna build a really big house and they're gonna do it because they're advertised as this new 10 acre conservation area that we're paying for.

So we're paying the 500,000 to generate this conservation area.

They're then selling the other lot for 500,000.

I I struggle, I struggle with the town doing that.

So that's that's my take.

Anyone else?

Mr.

Beckoncourt, further.

Yes, thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

So I made the motion.

I wanted to just have a moment to explain why I made the motion.

The the discussion here has taken a bit of a different turn than what I expected.

But for me, I wanted to kind of bifurcate what I think are two separate issues that have come up.

The first issue being whether or not we should protect this land, and the second is what to do with the land once it's protected.

Is there adequate parking there?

Is that an appropriate place for hunting?

I don't know.

I don't know for certain.

What I do know is that I do see a compelling reason to protect that land.

I appreciate the arguments that have been made and and the points that have been brought forward with regard to if you protect that land, you're not necessarily maximizing it to the benefit of the tax rolls.

I I do understand that.

But for me, being the fiscal conservative than I am, for me, the way to find taxpayer relief is not just to find new ways to give the government, in this case, the town government, more funding to work with.

There's an equally compelling argument that you also have to find a way to get the spending under control and to find more efficient and innovative ways of doing business.

When I go around the community and talk with people, I don't hear a great frustration that we're not doing enough for development, that we're not doing enough to find housing.

I think Salem is more than pulling its fair share when it comes to trying to find housing for the overall state crisis.

What I do hear is frustration about our open spaces and our uh opportunities that are out there for people to enjoy the environment that this community provides.

I don't think it's appropriate to look at every opportunity that comes forward as one to cram a house into every conceivable open lot that we can find in Salem.

I think you know, Mr.

Good now in particular made this point as well as others, but boy, when I think of development in Salem, I think of Chris Good now.

I mean, he has done a lot of great things for this community with regard to development.

He knows what he's doing, he's been doing it for a long time.

He has spoken tonight in support of this item.

And so one of the things that really stood out to me, and again, this point was made a couple of times is some of those parcels are on steep hills, and so what do we deal with every spring and summer on Arlington Pond?

People not being able to enjoy the water there because you've got all of these chemicals and all of this stuff that gets into the water.

Some of it you can control, some of it you can't.

So it begs the question, however, whatever you think you're going to gain by maximizing whatever you think those parcels are going to bring to the tax base.

How much of that is going to be offset by the environmental issues that we're going to have to deal with when all of that stuff makes its way into the water?

I don't know how you do the math on that, but I think that whatever you think you're going to maximize is going to be greatly diminished by those factors.

Appropriately, there is oversight and there is accountability from us here at the town council to make sure that they're doing it responsibly in a number of areas.

But I don't see a compelling reason here to micromanage the decisions that they've made.

They've studied this, they've analyzed it far more thoroughly than we've been able to do, and they feel that this is the right course of action.

And so I think we should support them for that.

You know, again, I'll say, because I hear it from my neighbors because of the uh the water restrictions that we've put in place.

Yes, it is in fact the case that those would be very expensive parcels with very expensive homes.

You know what come with that?

People who want nice lawns, people who want nice properties.

They're going to put chemicals on those lawn.

So again, it gets back to the point.

What happens when those chemicals run into that water and we have to deal with it, whether it be through restrictions of whether or not people could swim in that water, or worse than that, when the EPA comes knocking at the door and wants us to do a whole host of things because we're in violation of a whole bunch of levels of whatever it is that they do and restrictions that they put on the quality of the water.

So for all of those reasons, again, I I appreciate the argument that's been made about maximizing the tax base, but I think there are far more compelling reasons uh to support the item tonight to conserve and protect uh those pieces of land.

Thank you, Mr.

Hatch.

Yeah, and and in I agree with DJ, and uh again, I know I knew Ed Suffron very well, and that's why he put the land in current use.

He wanted it to stay undeveloped, and you know, we could sit here all day and say, Well, why didn't you donate it?

Well, if you knew Ed Suffron is the way I do, he wasn't never gonna donate anything.

He was gonna make us you know pay for it one way or another.

Um with all my years on the ZBA, never look at a lot and say that lot is unbuildable.

Because with as a will, there's a way.

Somebody will go ahead and find a way to develop that.

And we can say it's steep, it's this, it's that, you can't build close enough to the water because of the the buffers and all that.

Well, you're allowed to have a footpath down to the water.

Well, every year, guess what happens?

That footpath gets wider and wider and wider, and the next thing you know, you get your own private beach down there.

So I think this is a good use.

I realistically believe it's cheap money for the amount of land that they're buying, whether it's buildable or not buildable.

It's it's a good hunk of acreage, and I just think it's a good use, and and I know my good friend Ed Suffer, and he he would like to see this land stay undeveloped.

So I'm with him.

Miss Wright.

I with all my experience on the CBA, I totally agree with what Jeff said.

Joe, I apologize, but where are we going to find additional land?

There just really isn't much left.

I think this is a good plan.

Mr.

Sweeney, I I don't disagree, but what is the urgency to buy this land that the owner doesn't want to develop?

And if they're not going to develop until they pass away, and then their son won't develop it, getting the town involved and having the conservation commission buy the land, that's just doing them a favor, it feels like, and that just feels wrong.

Like we don't need to buy the land in order for it not to be developed.

There's not a developer knocking on the door and gonna develop it unless we buy it tonight.

So I I just I don't see the urgency.

I don't I yes, the argument the economic argument about maximizing the value is something I say all the time.

I don't see this land being developed on because the owners don't want to develop it.

They're not coming to the town and saying, hey, buy it or we're gonna develop it.

They're just saying buy it, we don't want it developed.

That's their prerogative, they can keep it that way.

There's no pressing need for the town to step in and buy the land to stop it from being developed because it's not being developed.

They're gonna they want to sell their 40-acre one, the the 40 norwood one and and something that built on that, and then they want all the natural space next to it.

That's great.

They don't need the town to protect it in order for them to do that.

They can just keep it under current use and keep it frozen in time, and it doesn't require the town.

I mean, if it's 26 percent of the conservation fund, then it's around two million dollars.

I don't see the pressing need to spend 500,000 of a two million dollar fund in order to buy this land.

I just don't see it.

I don't see the urgency.

As unaccustomed as we are to having ongoing arguments back and forth with the audience, Mr.

Good now.

I hope you have something new to add.

This is a point of information.

So in my discussions with Miss Suffron, um, let me summarize that she's in her mid-80s, and it is her intent to try to conserve this land.

Um, that she has a nephew that she's dealing with that is not espoused that same level of concern over the conservation.

Um so I think that the difference is generational.

And this lady that is approximately 81 or two, I forget.

Three.

Maybe 83 or that's yeah, I I don't know exact age, but certainly she's in her mid-80s.

So I think uh straightforwardly there may be a timeliness to this.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for that.

Miss Wright.

Sorry.

Um a number of years ago, my parents had lakefront property up in the lakes region, and there was a lot next door.

It was very, very steep and tons of ledge.

They had a chance to buy it real cheap, and they turned it down because they didn't believe they had experts come in and say it can't be built.

Guess what?

It got built.

We heard that the owner of this property can't afford to donate it.

So she may possibly end up selling it.

So I'm with DJ.

Anybody else?

Not seeing any.

All those in favor of the motion for the conservation commission to purchase map 22, lots 1078 through 1071.

We'll raise their hand this time.

One, two, three, four, five.

Opposed, one, two, three, four.

The eyes have it.

And that is that.

Okay.

Thank you.

Moving on to C transfer station study.

Oh, the one I've been waiting for.

There we go.

So a year ago, yes, the town council established a transfer station study committee.

Um, they're coming in to give you an update on how things have been going and what they've come across.

Thank you, Mr.

Town Manager.

Um, here again, Wayne Merrill.

Um, speaking about an update for uh the past year, what we've done on the committee.

Um record off this year.

I told uh counselor Stacey that you know I didn't know what the value or what I originally pointed on this committee we had our charter of what we wanted to do.

But in the last year, we've got things done and we've accomplished things, and I'm proud to say that.

And I feel pretty happy that we got a good group of people on this, and we're trying to tackle this on a group.

So we established in June 2nd, 2025 by charter of the town council to review the operations for the transfer station, identify areas for improvement and efficiencies, and make recommendations to town council for consideration.

The accomplishments.

We reviewed the um unicode of 409, and we'll be making recommendations in the future uh in the next month or two of a couple of changes that we'll look into.

One of the big changes is section 409-4B is to remove the business small business uh owners hauling license.

We have nobody with one now.

There's nobody has one.

Um we haven't issued them in years, and for two reasons that we're aware of that I was aware of is there is when they did do it, there was abuse and they couldn't track the big business owners putting their own personal traction and bringing it to the town.

And the other reasons we don't have anybody who's applying for for this permit.

So I don't want to just get two or three permits.

I have people coming and only have to we have to manage a program for just two or three um people.

But we'll be bringing that forward to you in a future meeting to discuss that uh option of removing uh that option to the businesses.

Most of them now get private contractors, one dumpster, five businesses, small businesses using one dumpster and putting all the trash out together as one instead of individual ones.

Other accomplishments was we obviously created a bylaw back in September of what uh what we're here for and what we're gonna do.

We've added uh signage based on the New Hampshire uh DES requirements, and we're gonna be adding additional signage.

Um we got free signs funds to purchase uh free signs uh for the transfer station.

So those kicked in, uh credits kicked in, so we're able to buy additional signs, so those should go up in the next couple of couple of months.

Uh we also uh created our holiday schedule so people know in advance they could plan their Thanksgiving trash run and their Christmas run way in advance to know what to what they're gonna be doing in the future.

I per personally review the operating enclosure plan based on our state permit that meets our SOP and it meets our daily operations right to the right exactly.

We went straight, we didn't drift, we we nailed it, which I'm pretty proud to say we did that.

And finally, we're currently working with Nicole Morris on um defining the bulky per permit.

Um people don't understand I think it's two point seven five cubic yards what we could put into um uh per per permit.

I think people our residents are thinking that might be a truckload.

And so we're having people bring three mattresses, two box springs, a grill, and a couch on one bulky permit.

Um and that's not what it was designed for.

So we want to at least control the mattresses and the box springs because for some reason we collect a lot of those because a lot of other places, Massachusetts has banned them, and it might come to New Hampshire pretty soon that they're gonna ban them, uh, be accepted in the landfill.

So the lifespan of a mattress of disposal of a mattress is gonna come real short real soon.

Ongoing committee task.

Um we're gonna continue with developing an SOP that we can share with with the public so they know what to expect when they get there, so they won't have to ask Bill every time they show up if this can I throw this away.

How do I tell us away?

Where do I tell us away?

Uh we'll continue our ask discuss uh uh ash disposal discussion.

We have no solution at this time.

We've we we banged heads on that one, didn't come up with anything, but we'll continue with that.

And then we're in the middle of uh transfer station operations uh contract and RFQ.

We got nobody to bid on it, so we're gonna send it back out again uh to help somebody help us prepare the contract for uh disposal contract.

Then there was talk through the committee about a swap shop.

We've tried to reduce the some people call it a treasure, other people call it trash what people bring and they drop off at the at uh at the transfer station.

Good stuff gets taken, bad stuff stays forever, and they it just looks really, really bad for us.

So we've done some cleaning up and we might not have made everybody happy with that with that cleanup.

So we had the conversation about uh doing a swap shop where we'd have volunteers manage the swap job.

We started calling around and seeing what it takes, and from our research, there's people closing them because having a volunteer run organization sometimes doesn't work well.

It works out well at the beginning for a few months, maybe six, seven months, eight months, and then people get their life happens and they drift away and it will fall back onto my department usually to have to manage that program and we have limited staff.

So we want to keep the discussion going, but I'm not so positive about it because we have experiences of uh other towns that it has not worked out, and the ones that have been successful with it needs a lot of volunteers to make it successful.

And what happens with a lot of these is becomes I can't throw it away at the transfer station, so I'm gonna donate it to the swap shop.

We don't want other people's junk unless it's good and somebody else could reuse it.

We don't want it to be a collection of of which would take management.

And that's it.

I'll take questions.

Anybody might have.

Anyone have any questions, Mr.

Hatch?

I have a couple of them if you don't mind, Jane.

I don't.

All right, great.

Um as far as the um the haulers, the small business haulers.

I do know that landscapers now, we don't take let allow landscapers in there.

Is there a plan or any discussions to let landscapers to start?

Because right now I think they gotta go across the street.

We have not had that discussion in detail.

We had very sh at the beginning, I think we might have, but it might be worth a conversation for a agenda item.

Because if we're gonna let trash collectors do it, then we should uh open it up to the landscapers also.

I I I'd be curious to have that conversation uh in the committee and see if we've done it in the past and what happened, what changed that.

Okay.

Um my next question was maybe this is gonna make some people mad.

And maybe we should take a look at the bulky permits, and maybe if we're not collecting the bulky permits, what is the answer to that?

Do we start charging people per mattress?

Uh because that was been suggested before, and we all were against that.

I I know I was very highly against it.

We asked for a count on how many, and I don't know if we've ever even asked for what the numbers were of how many mattresses that we're collecting when they started talking about charging.

Because I agree with you.

What's happening is all the surrounding towns around us now are charging for mattresses, and that's why we're finding them on the side of the road.

That's why I you go to the transfer station, you see a guy in the pickup truck, and he has three queen size mattresses on his truck.

And you know, I know when I grew up when I was a kid, I didn't have a queen size bed.

So I don't know.

I don't know where they're getting them from.

You can get one from the that's a great cost account.

So I we're hoping that our consultant that we hire will help us to figure out what other towns are doing in New Hampshire, for example.

And I could at least at least we'll have a better cost.

I mean, we're paying for it at the end of the day.

The town's paying for that.

Um, and we're probably paying, you know, 70, 80, 80 dollars a piece.

I think at mass, it's 85 dollars minimum to get rid of one.

What are we paying?

Maybe less, but sooner or later we're gonna get up to that point as a whole, we're all paying as a community.

Where do we have a special permit, maybe just for the mattress because we know the mattresses are gonna be 85 dollars or something?

So that's something that we could like to compare us to dairy a lot when it comes to the transfer station, their transfer station, I'm told is self-sufficient, da-da-da-da-da.

But they their residents can get rid of their household trash there at no cost, no permit fee or anything like that.

Just show your driver's license and however how they get away with being self-sufficient cost-wise, is they take C and D and they take C and D from anybody.

You get on the scale and you pay bur by the pound.

I don't know what the cost is.

I don't know if it would work for us.

Um again, it's it's it's a revenue source that we I think we should look at, see if it's feasible.

I know they had they charge for mattresses, they charge for televisions like we do.

But I I just think at some point what we're doing isn't working for the taxpayer.

We're very far from being self-sufficient.

Um, for our what our rates are at right now.

So I agree.

That's all we have.

Anyone else?

Lisa.

Are we working towards being more self-sufficient?

I think we're hoping that the consultant could help give us some guidance on where we could go with the new contract.

I mean, ultimately that should be the goal, right?

That should be the goal, but it comes with a cost, obviously.

So if being self-efficient going from $65 to $140, that's a discussion we have to have.

That it's a big discussion.

You guys have to have ours and even more than that to be self-efficient.

I'm I'm afraid that it's gonna be much higher.

I think we're very discounted subsidized transfer station program we have right now.

Subsidizing for years, right?

So it we never can't kept current with costs, and now we're paying for it.

Yes.

And the C and D that they used to collect in the dumpster on the left-hand side, was people put their chairs and their couches and their that's not construction debris, right?

You know, construction debris is beat up old studs, and you know, whatever.

Um, so uh I have seen in Connecticut where my son lives, they have a wonderful little swap shop right in the center.

You come in, you drop off your bicycles or whatever, something that might be somebody else's treasure, you know.

This uh chainsaw stop working for me, maybe somebody's good at it.

Nobody touches it, there's no volunteers, there's no anybody.

If you see something you like, you walk over and you put it in the truck and you take it home.

Um they don't, they get rid of it all.

So I don't know.

Just seems like everybody's thinking that might be a lot of work.

One thing I don't want is ashes on the road again, that's for sure.

Um, yeah, not with my windows open anyway.

Um anybody else?

No, we're good.

No, well, I guess we're good for now, Wayne.

Thank you.

Keep us posted.

All righty.

For some reason, trash in this town just uh brings out the best in everybody.

Sure does.

Um people going.

Yeah, yeah.

Next up is uh D waiver for installation of a well, Mr.

Devine.

Uh so I'm coming for you tonight because we are the town is seeking a waiver from the council uh to install our irrigation system at the new police department facility, which was included within the budget.

Um was not included was a separate well.

Uh this is considered a commercial property by statute.

Uh so we're looking for a waiver of uh chapter 477, Article 14, uh, which allows us to hook up to the municipal water supply for our irrigation system.

Mr.

Hatch.

Would it be as and I mean it's not gonna happen in my lifetime, but it would be a waiver that's like a conditional use permit as long as it's a town facility or a police station.

We can because what happens in the future when it becomes maybe who knows, a commercial piece of property.

You you can authorize that without as a condition, yes.

I don't want to think about it.

I know I'm thinking like 80 years or 100 years from now.

Let them deal with it.

Well, none of us are gonna be here.

Deal with it.

Jesus anybody else on the topic?

Anybody want to make a motion?

I'll make go ahead, Miss Stacey.

I move the town council approval waiver from Salem Municipal Code Chapter 477, Article 4, Section 477-14 Cree, an authorized irrigation system serving the new Salem Police Department facility located at 9 Veterans Memorial Parkway to be connected to the town's municipal water system in lieu of a separate irrigation well.

Second.

Motion made in second.

All those in favor.

9 to 0.

Next up, Tuscan Village Tax Impact Report.

So this is something that I wanted to provide the council.

I think the council and the residents kind of need to have a good understanding where Tuscan is paying the taxes, what it's going towards, um, how much the town is collecting and what that impact actually does.

Um we've we've heard for years and years that people say um Tuscan was supposed to lower our taxes.

That seems to be the common thread of what people say.

Um and so I just really want to break it down, show what the tax rate would look like if Tuscan was not there and it was still the racetrack to what it is now, so we can really just get a good understanding of it.

So this is just for informational purposes only, but I hope that it will at least give us a picture of what Tuscan is paying within the town of Salem for us.

So just for people who may not be familiar, I just wanted to put out there what is Tuscan Village, it's a mixed use developments located on Route 28.

Um in 2021, it had an assessed value of 31 million dollars.

Um in 2025, it was 463 million dollars, which is roughly a 14% increase in the past four years of growth.

Um they've paid nearly 9.9 million dollars in annual property taxes in two and 2025, which equates to almost 8%, or sorry, 7.3% of Salem's entire tax levy is coming just from Tuscan Village.

Um this is just a snapshot of the tax revenue from 2022 to 2025, so you can just kind of see how it grows.

Um again, I just mentioned it was 9.87 million dollars in revenue.

Uh back in 2022 was 4.54.

So again, that's roughly 85%.

Um but one thing we have to keep in mind when we look at this that about 16% of this 9.87, which is roughly 1.5 million, is actually taxpayers as well, because there's condos in there that are also paying property taxes on top of that.

So that is a piece of that total 9.87.

So for the purpose of this presentation, when I use Tuscan, I'm looking at every parcel within that 170 acres essentially.

So again, just to give you an idea from between Tuscan Village and the rest of Salem.

Um you can you can see again that we have the 9.87 million dollars.

Um basically that leaves for the rest of Salem 126 million dollars that we have to raise through tax levy, which is about 92 percent.

Um it's about 7 billion dollars is our total assessed value when you look at Salem.

And then the approximate footprint of Tuscans, 170 acres, and the approximate footprint of Salem is about 36 square miles.

Mr.

Chairman, if I might just very quickly, it's an important clarification.

Go ahead.

I apologize for interrupting, but I think this is important.

So because it's the third slide now where I've seen the 9.9.

So is the 9.9 the town's share of the property taxes or that's coming.

Okay, this is the total amount collected.

Okay, because obviously there's a couple of different ciphers out of that via the state, via the county which will be number of different things, which will be coming up in the presentation.

But yes, the 9.87 is the total tax bill that Tuscan pays to the town.

So basically what that means.

So if you look out the right side with the green, um, that's how much our current 2025 tax bill uh tax rate is.

Uh, we have not set the 2026 tax rate yet.

We don't set it till October, so for the purpose of this presentation, we're using all 2025 numbers just so we have a clear understanding of it.

Roughly on an average home, which is about six hundred and ten thousand dollars market value right now in Salem, they would pay seven thousand eight hundred and ten dollars.

If you did not have Tuscan, um our tax rate would be nineteen dollars and seventy-three cents.

Um so that same home would be paying roughly eight thousand four hundred and eighty-five dollars.

So the median difference is about six hundred and seventy-five dollars, is what the taxpayer is seeing off of the tax bill based off of our current spending in the town.

This is just a quick breakdown of the different parcels within Tuscan, just to kind of give you an idea.

Starting with the Hanover apartments, which is the highest taxpayer or tax parcel, and working down.

Obviously, the lowest one, if you look down there, I'm calling it Whole Foods, but that hasn't opened yet, but it's building 13, which is 20 through 24 via Tuscana.

So these numbers are captured in April, is when we capture all of our numbers for tax set purposes, tax rate setting purposes.

And that building was not completed yet, which is why you're only seeing it at 346,000.

Some of the epicurean apartments had started opening, but the building hasn't been completed yet.

There's a parking garage attached to it that wasn't completed yet.

So when the building is completed, we would see that jump next April when we go through the process for this.

So again, this is just to kind of show the growth from 2021 through 2025 in how they're paying their taxes.

Again, it started at that 3.3 and gets us up to that 9.8 where we are today.

So just so people are aware on how property taxes are actually set in New Hampshire, so they can get a clear picture of that.

First, we set a budget, which the town and the school will set theirs, and the county then also sets theirs to determine how much money they need.

We then subtract our revenue.

So that could be fees, that could be state aid, that could be grant monies, things like that, and that's deducted.

We then take the rate, which is the remaining amount divided by the total assessed value of the town times a thousand is how we come up with that.

And then your bill is your assessed value divided by a thousand times that rate that we had just calculated.

And that's how the tax rate is actually calculated for each house.

At the bottom, you can kind of see a breakdown as well of the 2025 tax rate.

So 32% or $5.90 comes to the town.

Local education gets $10.07, which is 55%, almost 56 cent.

State education gets $1.41, and then the county gets 78 cents.

So again, this is just that same breakdown just in the pie charts and kind of see where it comes from.

So if we look at Tuscan's money and what they're paying, that first one, that 32%.

So we we referenced that $9.8 million that councillor Bencourt spoke about.

So of that 9.8, the town receives about $3.2 million.

So that's how much the town is receiving for our infrastructure, for public safety, for anything that we're doing.

The school receives almost $5.5 million of that.

State education receives $766,000 of it.

And then the county receives $424,000 roughly of all that $9.8 million.

So people ask, why are my taxes going up?

Why are they not going down?

So there's forces pushing it up, obviously.

One's the school budget, it's 55% of your bill.

It's set independently by the school board.

But that is a driving factor in the town's budget and in your tax bill.

You're dealing with it at your house.

We're also dealing with it on the town side of things.

Roads, equipment salaries, they all cost more, and that drives up our cost.

State and county charges, again, 12% of your bill goes to the state and to Rockingham County, which is outside of our control as well.

So it's the same thing as the school.

So just to kind of give you an idea on the Tuscan side of things, because that's what people want to know why isn't Tuscan bringing our taxes down.

They are expanding the tax base, which is important.

The more valuable our town is, it helps keep that rate from going sky high.

And that's what by adding buildings by adding this mixed use development, it's increasing the value of the town, which is important.

So it slows that rate of increase.

And then they're probably, if I had a guess right now, they're about two-thirds built out.

They still have several parcels to develop, which will just continue to add to that tax base, which will help our valuation of the town.

So this is the municipal rate, and so this is off that $590.

You can kind of see where we were back in 2019, 2020, which is just as Tuscan was ticking kicking off.

In 2021, we had a reval, which is why you see that drop come down.

And then you've seen a slow increase.

Essentially from the time of 2022 through 2025, we've had an average increase of about 27 cents a year on the town side, is where we typically are averaging right now.

So again, this is just talking about the change in taxes because of the properties within Tuscan coming up.

Again, we talked about Whole Foods back in 24, they were just probably a piece of dirt at that point, which is why it was only 29,000.

The building started going up, and obviously we're gonna see a larger increase on that parcel.

So of every dollar that Tuscan pays for, this is where it goes to you.

Um again, we mentioned it before, but 55 cents goes to the schools, 32 cents goes to the service uh to town, 7.8 cents goes to state education, and then 4.3 cents goes to the county.

And that breaks out.

I'm gonna go back one second.

I thought there was something else on the slide.

On the town side, that 32 cents, just so you can kind of get an idea.

13 cents goes to public safety, eight cents goes to the roads and DPW, 6.5 cents goes to admin, and then 4.9 cents goes to park and rec.

So that 32 cents, that's how it's then divided within the departments.

So again, we we talked about the cost of services.

Um, so the school gets 5.475 uh million.

Basically, from our what we've been told uh this remember, 50 students added to the school department because of Tuscan.

Um if you do the math at $15,000 per pupil, uh that's roughly $750,000 is what the cost is for that piece.

Um, so they're essentially having net benefit of $4.7 million dollars is what they're seeing by that five and a half million dollars that Tuscan pays.

Public safety for us, again, we talked about it, it's about 1.2 million dollars of that 3.3 that we get as going to public safety, and 800,000 is going to roads and infrastructure.

You know, we consider it a net positive because we do have calls of service there, so that's helping offset that 1.2 million dollars as we're responding to different things there for public safety.

Um another piece that we should talk about is impact fees, because this is something that they also have to pay that does benefit the taxpayers.

Um, to date, Tuscans pay 10.3 million dollars in impact fees.

Um for the town side of things, they pay for a lot of the intersections is how we paid for those intersections to get completed is using impact fees, and so we're able to improve the area around it using those impact fees.

We also are able to use public safety.

Um we have a police station bond.

We're able to use some of the public safety money that they have to help offset that bond by using those impact fee monies.

Uh, the school also gets a piece of this impact fee as well, and then recreation gets a small piece as well.

So, again, just it's it's you know, Tuscan's not finished.

I think we're gonna continue to see good growth there, which is going to help us keep the value of the town higher, which is going to help offset that tax rate a little bit.

Um, you know, I think from a town standpoint, seeing a large development in a small area is beneficial for us because it does help grow that tax rate very fast because of the value of the properties.

And I think especially along the 28th quarter, we should be looking for that mixed-use development because it is going to help the taxpayers ultimately as we come forward.

Um, and just as a as a note, um, the former Rockingham Park, it was I don't have what they were paying in taxes, but before it got switched over, their assessed value was essentially 40 million dollars.

Again, now Tuscan is at 463 million dollars and generates roughly 10 million dollars in property tax, so that can show the value that is added on the side of um slowing the tax rate and the side of making the town more valuable.

And this is a repeat.

So I'm happy to answer any questions.

Mr.

Vettencourt, thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

I will preface my question.

I'm sure there's gonna be a number of them by saying this could be one of the most important and prevalent presentations that this council has seen in a very long time.

Because when I travel throughout the community, the Tuscan question comes up all the time.

And so I don't know how we isolate this conversation tonight and try to make that as available to people to to watch and to consider as possible.

But I hope you're thinking about some innovative ways to do that because this is unbelievably important.

You know, a couple of the takeaways for me is you know, Joe, at the beginning of the presentation, you had said, you know, people are under the impression that Tuscan was going to lower taxes.

Yeah, they were under that impression because that's what they were promised, and those promises were made very consistently by a lot of different people.

So people are not wrong in asking the type of questions that you've posed here in your presentation, and uh by and large, I think have done a good job in answering and at least putting it to its appropriate context.

My biggest takeaway from this is what Tuscan has produced is helpful and beneficial, but it has lagged far behind the spending that has taken place in a lot of different areas that this council does not have control over, and people I think need to be aware of that and to understand that.

So my question is this, and I can't remember exactly what slide it was, but you brought it down to the individual homeowner level and said that for I assume the average assessed value of a home, there are six hundred and seventy-five dollars in savings.

And I want to try to better understand whether or not that number, and you found the slide, and I appreciate that.

Is that the gross or the net savings?

Because there's a couple of different factors that you highlighted in the course of the presentation that I want to try to understand whether or not that's included in the number.

So you talked about things like population and demand, I think is one of the slides labeled it.

Um you got into it a little bit further in the slide that said uh does is Tuscan costing us anything.

So when you get to that number, are you factoring in the impact fees and then are you factoring in as well the cost in terms of services and all of the other things that come along with the Tuscan, you know.

So is that number a real number when you factor in all of those things, or so that number further diminished, or does it deserve to be in better context based on those things?

So the the sl the without Tuscan Village is if the property was still a 40 million dollar racetrack.

So that that's what the our taxes would look like if it was never developed and we still had an assessed racetrack there for 40 million dollars.

That's what their tax bill would see is the $19.73 cents.

That's what our tax rate would be.

Making that assumption on it.

Well, that's a pretty important assumption.

You know, I I think it would be fascinating to see what that number would be as the project has changed over time.

Sure.

You know, when Tuscan was first developed with a heavier emphasis on commercial development, and I'm not blaming the folks at Tuscan for the fact that some things fell through.

That's the nature of business, of course, and the economy changes.

We had a worldwide pandemic in the middle of the whole thing.

So again, I'm not trying to cast blame or aspersions on on the folks who put Tuscan together, but it would be fascinating to see again what that number would be, you know, when Tuscan was first proposed and kind of at critical points along the way compared to where it is now.

I think the hard part is you know, we we had a proposal, but we don't have an assessment.

I don't I don't know what those values of those buildings are, so it's tough for me to get to dive into that number.

I had a known of what the racetrack was for the 40 million dollars, and I have a known of what it is right now, which was how I was able to calculate that out.

Um, you know, if if let's say life science had come through like they had originally thought, I'm sure that would have been a very valuable building that would have made a larger impact on this.

Um there's no question.

Um, but I don't have a tr a building to compare to get a value of to really make that comparison is the problem.

Okay.

Thank you, Joe.

Appreciate it.

This with room.

I'm not sure if you can answer this, but I'm gonna try anyway.

Sure.

So you said it's I think you said it's about two-thirds built out.

So another third, so roughly at the end of the day, let's say it was done tomorrow.

We're looking at four million-ish more dollars in taxes.

I depend again, depending on what type of building, because obviously commercial buildings are worth different amounts in residential things like that.

Just very broadly, yes.

That's a that's a safe.

Do you anticipate any large town expenses needed before they they finish building that out specific because of because of what they're building out?

Because of what they're building, are there any further costs that not that I'm aware of.

So as of right now, I'm our our largest cost in the town is staffing.

That that staffing and then probably our our apparatus and our and our large equipment are probably the two largest things.

Um both the police chief and the fire chief have said that they see no need for increased staffing over the at least the next five years.

Now that you know, obviously we talk about a west side.

I don't know what's happening with that.

We don't know that would obviously require staffing that's outside of what's happening in Tuscan.

Um, but as a direct result of Tuscan, both of these chiefs have said they don't see any need for increased staffing at this time.

Excellent.

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr.

Hatch.

Thank you.

I just want to address something that TJ said uh now I haven't been to every meeting that's concerning the Tuscan village by no means, but I've probably been to at least 75 to 100 of them.

And I'm gonna be deftly honest here.

I had never heard the words out of Mark Ross or Joe Farrell or anybody else's mouth that has to do with the planning board, the planning process, or the building of Tuscan Village that said that we were going to lower your taxes.

So what they do say though is we're going to contribute to your tax base.

That's a totally different thing.

The problem is the people out there get the perception that we're going to uh that's what they're saying, that they're saying they're gonna lower the taxes.

That's not what that means.

They're saying they're going to contribute to the tax rate.

And that's totally different.

So you know, I just want to put an end to the saying, well, they said it was going to lower our tax rate.

No one ever said that.

You know, that's a whole different thing.

Can't say nobody.

Yeah.

Maybe not at the meetings you were at, Jeff, but I I can assure you that I can find a number of video clips where that statement was made.

I'm you need to go looking for them because I couldn't find any of them.

I don't think he's referring to who you you think he's referring to.

But I'm just telling you, that's a totally different subject.

Mr.

Pellet.

Well, being a member of the planning board for 16 years, I've been to almost just about every single one of the Tuscans meetings.

I have to echo echo what Councillor Hacks has been saying.

I have never heard those words directly out of their mouth as to the fact that this will lower everybody's taxes.

Uh contributing to to the tax base, yes.

And they do that substantially.

I personally take a drive through Tuscan Village every single day.

Just when I can every almost every day, and I drive up and down the roads to see the the amount of business that's happening over there.

Uh and as long as the they continue uh uh with a great business that they're doing and the great businesses and the income that they're they're they're making, they will continue.

I was sure contribute more to our to our tax base in Salem as they grow.

Uh Saturday night, I think other than the fireworks uh day uh evening, I have seen haven't seen more people there than I've ever seen ever before.

I don't know why.

And uh when I passed the uh the the uh the beer to be a uh tent, you couldn't see the beer to be a uh area.

There were just so many people there, and they're well and the people that I see there are that's gumbags, they're all well dressed people, they're all looking good, looking nice, and they're all having a good time, and they're all walking around enjoying the evening over there.

So I I can't say anything bad about it at this point.

That's what I have to say about it.

Just a baton court.

Thank you.

To clarify, I 100% take Counselor Hatch and Councillor Pelletier at their word that the statement that Tuscan would bring down tax rates was never discussed at the planning board.

But I can tell you that there are two members of the former board of selectmen who are not in this room tonight who most certainly did make that statement repeatedly.

That's number one.

Number two, if in fact the the statement was never made that it would lower taxes but would contribute to the tax base, then there's a failure to adequately communicate and to explain to the citizens of this town what that means.

And somebody's got to own that because I don't believe that the citizens of this town who believed that the Tuscan project would bring down the taxes were unintelligent or were making wild assumptions.

They heard the statements that were made, again, at those board of selectman meetings in the first instance, and then connected that with the statements that you have uh said were made at the planning board meeting and logically connected the two.

So if that was inaccurate, then somebody failed to properly explain and communicate to people why those two things were not connected and why the expectations that were set have not been realized.

Listen, there's a lot of really good news in this presentation tonight, and I don't want to take away from that.

And again, I'm not at any point here trying to criticize the people who have made Tuscan happen.

I think there's a lot of great benefits.

I think the people of this community by and large enjoy that project.

But I do want to set the record straight as to why people have gotten the impression that they have and why they're upset that they're not seeing what they expected to see and what they thought they would see by virtue of this project reflected in their tax bills.

I just want to thank you.

I just want to clarify, Jeff, the two individuals you named, Ms.

Farrell, Mr.

Gross.

I never heard it from them.

I want to make sure I'm on record.

I don't want to be tagged with saying something I didn't say.

It was I never heard it from them.

I will agree with DJ as to who I've heard it from.

Okay.

Ms.

Dursweet, thank you, Mr.

I think everyone's right.

I think I I think like probably the best way to that they it should have been presented was it would blunt the increase for folks because at the same time, even when this wasn't even owned, when when Rockingham Park still owned Rock and Park, we were building new elementary schools, we were building a new high school, we were pursuing the middle school project.

All of those things were well, there was a lot that happened into an earlier question and clarification.

There's a lot that was just going to happen in terms of what we were spending money on as a town, as the school district that was just gonna happen regardless.

And so I think that point of it would have been 1973 per thousand.

Uh had it not had this new growth not taken on.

Now it's 1816.

And I think that that 1970 through $19.73 per thousand cannot possibly encapsulate the side investments that took place off of Tuscan.

The movie theater at the mall, the what's gonna be at the Sears Auto place, like that probably doesn't happen if there's not you know the 300 people living in Hanover, uh, which is the most valuable property is the the apartment building.

It's tall, it's dense.

Um that's how we maximize the value there.

So everyone's right.

No one's wrong.

Kumbaya.

This is great.

Let's do ten more.

That's good.

Mr.

Build, build, build.

Mr.

Divine.

Yes, sir.

Manager's report in question.

Sure.

One second.

Uh so first I I don't know how many people are ever on the Salem bike ped corridor, but I want to give a shout out to a municipal services department.

I did a great job installing these this new kiosk.

Oh done down on Hampshire Road.

It looks very nice, so it's a nice welcoming addition as you're entering the town.

Um, it came out beautiful.

It looks really nice.

So I want to give a shout out to them and their hard work on getting that done.

Um I'm I'm pretty excited to give this next piece.

Um, for the first time that we know ever, uh the Salem Police Department is fully staffed.

We have 70 officers.

Oh yeah.

Yeah, so I I wanted to get that information out there.

Obviously, um things do change throughout the year, and you know, people retire and people leave.

Um, but we've we've never had a full um battery of officers, and we actually have all 70 right now.

So I just I think that's a great thing.

Wanted to get that out there.

So wonderful.

Um this is the council's aware of this, it's more for the public.

Um, our July 6th meeting is gonna be at the old town hall.

So we would love for you to come on down and and take in the meeting at the old town hall, look at the museum.

Um, so we're taking the show on the road.

So that's where we're gonna be on July 6th, uh right on Main Street.

And since we have been talking about budgets a lot, um we've we put up this new page on the town's website that I just want to show the council.

So if you go to our our home page and if you go into departments to the town manager, uh there is a new one that says where do your property taxes go.

So this is gonna be dealing with the municipal operating budget to give you an idea.

But it gives you a breakdown of the tax rate, again, the median household and the tack what your tax bill is on that, and then what the 2026 town operating budget was.

So again, you can kind of see that breakdown of local education, municipal, state ed, and then county.

And then you can actually come in and estimate your tax bill.

So you can put in what your value is of your house, and it's gonna tell you exactly what your tax rate is, how much of that goes to municipal again, it breaks it all up for you.

But the really nice part is it actually breaks down our budget for you, and you can actually see how much each of each department gets out of that $56 million for the operating budget, and you can actually click on it and it breaks it down as subcategories, so we'll use the fire department.

So you have suppression, administration, inspectional services, uh communications, and then stations.

So for each section of the budget, you can see that.

And if we come down a little bit further, essentially, if we're looking at a typical tax bill of the town of a $598,000 house, um, the municipal portion is about $3,528.

So essentially $1,115 goes to the fire department, which to you meets about $92 a month of that tax bill is being paid to the fire department.

So again, it breaks it down by each department, so you can kind of just get an idea.

And these numbers are based off of that assessed value of $590,000.

But I just wanted to let the public know it's there.

Um so if they want to take a look at it, they can kind of just see where their money is being sent on the operating budget side of things.

And I am happy to answer any questions that the council may have.

Mr.

Betoncourt.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Two very, very quick things.

The first is uh related back to the kind of uh common law, I guess, uh understanding that the canine officers go with the retiring uh police officer might be worthwhile at some point to formalize that agreement.

I I completely support that.

We have an agreement that will be signed.

Um, and the officer will pay a dollar because we cannot just give away the asset, so they pay a dollar for the asset.

And then uh on behalf of my constituent counselor Stacy, uh, there was unfortunately another tough accident at the intersection of North Main and Bluff over the weekend, caused a lot of people uh to be asking about what's going on there in terms of safety, might be worthwhile at a future meeting uh to highlight that and to talk about the things that the town has done to try to address that particular problem.

I don't want to see that become the next iteration of the Irma Road problem.

So we can definitely do that for you.

Thank you.

Today, if if I might ask Mr.

Devine, I went to the um fire memorial.

Yep.

Uh Mr.

Stromallier and Mr.

Pellateer were there.

Um there was an accident at Maine and Highland.

Yeah.

One ambulance was called, two M is place emptied out.

The third ambulance got called.

Did anybody does anybody have an update on how those people did?

I I can get you an update.

I don't have one, but I can definitely get you up there.

Yeah, that'd be you know, just send us an email, let us know how that's not a problem.

Mr.

Belcher.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Uh Mr.

Devine, the I noticed that the Palmer School.

I've been asked by a couple people, so have to relay asked the question.

The Palmer School sign has been taken down.

Yep.

Uh is there an update on that?

I know Wayne is still here.

Is that an update?

Is it taken down and being repaired?

It's being repaired to be put back up.

Yeah, put back up.

Yeah, okay.

That's all I need to know.

Thank you.

Mr.

Sweeney.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thanks, Joe.

Uh so probably last week sometime.

Uh, myself, Keith, Jeff, we all got tagged uh in several Facebook groups asking, you know, the town's not doing anything for independence day.

It's the 250th anniversary of the country, we're not doing anything.

And this is more of a question for my counselors, too.

I'd like to help organize something.

The field of dreams is available.

Uh I don't know how big of the gathering would be, it'd be you know, three weeks minus two days at this point, maybe something for that Saturday morning.

Uh, read the declaration, have some music, get some food trucks, see what people can put together.

I just I'd like to take that on if you guys are cool with me doing that.

Uh it could be for 20 people.

Yeah, I I'd probably I need to raise money for it.

Um, but I'm happy to take that on and do that if everyone's cool with happening.

I I assume we could use the rec revolving fund the same way we did for the 275th or if people make donations to pay for stuff.

I mean I'm sure we could figure something out.

Yeah, because I think I mean if there's a police detail that we need, I want to make sure that made whole and not not paid to the town.

So, where are you you're looking to do it on Gerramonti?

Is that your plan with the field?

So I I uh if I could make it as as cool as possible, I would have the event at Field of Dreams and I would block off part of Gerramonty.

Okay, people could park at the high school, uh, but from like veterans memorial to the high school exit, block it off so that food trucks can be right there.

Maybe you know, nonprofits and businesses can set up tables if they have people.

I know it's a holiday, but I figure in the morning it might be before their afternoon cookouts.

Um I think there are people out there that want to help organize it, so I put out a call to action for everybody and just see what we can do.

Again, maybe it's 20 people that feel the dreams reading the declaration and then going off on our days.

Maybe it's more people, and we'll sort of gauge interests and I'll coordinate with you as to what we need.

Right.

That's cool with everybody if I can indulge and take on that.

I mean, go ahead.

Sweet.

Seriously, all the work that was put into that.

People in show.

Not having anything under old business or pending our upcoming meetings.

There are only for the public, there were only two meetings in the summer that'll be July 6th, which will be at the old town hall, and August 3rd.

Not seeing anything else coming before the board, I will motion to adjourn.

Second motion been made to adjourn, seconded by everybody.

All those in favor.

Nine to zero.

We are adjourned.

Thank you very much, Salem, for joining us tonight, and we'll see you on July 6th.

Happy five.