Good morning.

I'd like to call to order the Historic and Design Review Commission compliance and technical advisory board meeting for Friday, March 20th, 2026.

Can I have a roll call, please?

Davis.

Garcia.

Regard.

Here.

Spiller.

Here.

Here.

Pollug.

Here.

Speeds.

Here.

Um Vasquez.

Here.

Zapulvada.

And Davis is here.

We have a quorum.

Thank you.

Translation Services, please.

Good morning, everyone.

Buenos días.

Las personas que prefieren escuchar esta audiencia in Espanyol.

Thank you so much.

Thank you very much.

The compliance and technical advisory board is an advisory board appointed by the city council.

I'm Jason Vasquez, Acting Chair.

Juanita Cipul Vida is the chair.

It is the function of the board to advise the city manager and all relevant city departments concerning certain applications for permits for properties in historic districts and landmarks.

In considering whether to recommend approval or disapproval of an application for a certificate of appropriateness, the board shall be guided by the city's unified development code and design guidelines and standards that have been adopted by City Council.

An appeal of a decision by an administrative official can be filed in accordance with the city's unified development code.

If anyone present wishes to speak in favor or in opposition to any item on today's agenda, please sign up on the public comment sheet.

It is not necessary to sign up if you are the owner of representative for a project on the case agenda.

You'll be called on as the case is called.

Case representatives will be given no more than 15 minutes to present their case with an additional two minutes to respond to public comments.

Speakers for or opposed to a case will be limited to two minutes each.

Speakers may also sign up to yield their two minutes to another speaker who has signed up.

Anyone who is yielding their time must be present at the time the speaker is called upon.

Speakers will be called upon in the order in which they are signed up.

Following public testimony, any commissioner may call upon any speaker to respond to further questions.

Approval by the board does not take the place of any type of permit.

Permits must be obtained for all work.

Certificates of appropriateness for work approved by the board will be emailed to you within 10 days.

No work of any type is to be started without obtaining the appropriate city permits after a certificate of appropriateness has been issued by the Office of Historic Preservations.

At this time, please silence your cell phones.

What is the date?

It's February 20th.

Can I have a motion for approval of the meeting minutes from the February 20th, 2026 meeting?

So moved.

Second.

Thank you.

Can I have a roll call, please?

Davis.

Aye.

Regard.

Aye.

Spiller.

Aye.

Fullerton.

Aye.

Pollug.

Aye.

Speeds.

I wasn't here.

I don't think I could approve it.

Well, Mark you has abstained.

Vasquez?

Aye.

And Zapulvada.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

Okay.

Now we can draw our attention to your screens and monitors.

Um we have four items on today's consent agenda.

We do not have any public comments or in-person speakers on those items.

Commissioners, we do have a voicemail for item number four.

I'll play that now.

Thank you.

Hello, this is Lulu Francois, Chairperson for the Decanwitting Hill Historic Neighborhood Review Committee calling in on case number 053 415 willow.

We agree with BAF's recommendation for a fence that does not exceed a four feet, but we have concerns about the windows installed.

In 2020, this applicant submitted a request to install windows, and at the time we expressed our concern that the windows presented were not one over one.

We called it out at this time and during the final COA.

There were assurances from the applicant that the windows would meet historic one over one guidelines.

It's obvious that this assurance was never met.

And we are requesting that the applicant be required to install the historically correct windows.

We understand the applicant is not in front of this board for at this time for the windows, but for the fence.

So we would like to take this opportunity to request that the applicant come back and submit an application or be reviewed for the historically correct windows.

Thank you.

Commissioners, that concludes uh voicemails for the consent agenda.

Edward, and that one was for which that was for 415 willow.

Okay, thank you.

Is there any commissioners wish wishing to pull any of the consent agenda items?

If not, can I have a roll call, please for ask for a motion for uh consent agenda items, please?

I make a motion we accept the consent items.

Second.

Thank you.

Can I have a roll call, please?

Davis, aye.

Regard.

Aye.

Spiller.

Aye.

Fullerton.

Aye.

Pollock.

Aye.

Speeds.

Vasquez.

Hi.

And Supplova.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

If you're on the consent agenda and your address, it's 1119 North Pine, 931 Hays, 332, Florida, and 415 Willow.

Your case has been approved, and you do not need to stay for the remainder of this hearing.

If you have any questions, please contact a member of staff.

Your certificate of appropriateness or commission action letter will be prepared and emailed to you within 10 days.

Next commissioners will move on to item number five, HDRC case number 2026, 069601 Burnett.

The applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness for approval to one install a black rod iron front yard fence to feature an overall height of three feet two inches.

Two to install a limestone retaining wall element at the southwest corner of the property to feature no more than one foot in height, and three to install limestone planters around the skirting at the south and west facades of the historic structure.

Staff recommends approval of item number one, front yard fencing as submitted based on finding C.

Staff recommends approval of item number two, the installation of a limestone retaining wall element at the southwest corner of the lot as submitted based on finding D.

Staff does not recommend approval of item number three, the installation of limestone planters adjacent to the south and west facades.

The replacement of this element with the proposed limestone would while maintaining the existing height would be appropriate.

Mr.

Amons, can you hear us clearly?

Yes, I can.

Okay, perfect.

Uh so Mr.

Amons, I've read the request items into the record and then the recommendation.

Um if you have the email that I sent, you can reference those so it may be a little easier to see.

Um as noted, we are recommending approval of your fence as you've proposed.

We're recommending approval of the limestone retaining wall element as you've proposed.

Uh the one thing that we are not recommending approval of, and I'll put that on the screen now, uh, is the installation of these planning the planners uh adjacent to the front facades.

Uh so if you um want to present that item specifically to the commission, you may do so now.

Okay.

Yeah, so um in this uh in this image here.

I I can see why the um the request has been to not approve this.

Um it's not exactly it's this this uh rendering of this image is brings the soil level up very high on the skirting.

So what if you look at the um original or current image of the home of the level of the soil or dirt will not will won't even go up uh maybe maybe about an inch below the ventilation of the skirting.

And I've done plenty of these both on slab foundation and air and beam foundation, and what basically we would do is um dig out about two, maybe about two inch, maybe about two inches of the soil that's there right now and replace that with base that will grade down toward the exterior of the house up to the towards the street, uh to keep that uh you know moisture out of there because trust me, I agree with you.

I don't want any moisture retention in there.

That's gonna be bad for the foundation.

Um so by doing that with base foundation under the planters, grading it away from the home, and then using um using soil to put the plants in there will um should not retain any moisture plus uh those retaining walls will have um drainage uh in the bottom of them.

Thank you, Mr.

Amons Amonds?

Amons, yes.

Sorry.

Um good.

Thanks for your uh submission.

And um, so really quick, we're gonna start with questioning.

Um so the height of that, you're not wishing to change that at all right now?

No, the the only the only portion that's going to be a little bit higher.

So uh I'm mainly I'm mainly looking at the uh south and west side of the of the house right there.

Um you can see where the current planter kind of slopes down about halfway.

Um basically what I'm gonna do is where that starts to slope down, I'm gonna keep that level across that.

You can see that first panel uh on the skirting, and it'll be it'll be likewise around uh the the back side up to about that second vent that you'll see in the picture there.

So as far as the height, it's definitely not gonna go up as high as it shows in that picture.

It'll be below the ventilation of the skirting.

So I would say maybe maybe about a foot up uh when you get down to that second that second vent on the uh on the west side of the of the house there.

That's probably about as high as it will it will get.

Okay, I'm gonna open up to questions from my colleagues.

Uh any I'm sorry, Madam Chair, do you have any questions?

Online.

Not at this point.

Thank you.

On my left?

Yeah, so I guess I have a question for the applicant.

Um it it seems as though staff agrees with um the request for one and two and and three is the only one we're we're really talking about, and we're talking about height.

So I'm wondering is there um a way that um when we when we seek to um make a motion here and make a decision that we could agree upon a height um uh expectation instead of saying uh it won't go above the the last um Yeah, it like could we agree on it on a on an actual measurement as opposed to the bottom slat of the of the yeah, okay.

That's my question.

Absolutely, sure.

Additional questions on my left.

No.

So then I guess a follow-up to staff would be Edward, could we come up with an increment uh an actual measurement as opposed to just the bottom ring of the side?

I think so.

Um, and I think some of that would require a little bit of feedback from the applicant.

Um what I can do is uh today I can go out and measure uh the height, and again, I'm gonna go based off that line right below um right below the vent.

So it will be a little bit higher on the west side of the building right there where you're at.

Um so and also just so you know it's not gonna go all the way down the side, it's gonna go up to where those two where the two windows are, right there where your cursor is at exactly.

Um because there was a and we have the permits that we're all done for that, but there is a fence there now that goes up to those two windows.

Um so that's where the planter is gonna go up to butts up against that fence.

So it's only gonna go up to right there.

Um, but yeah, so what I can do today is go down and measure uh measure what that what that height is gonna be right there, and I can send that in and you know y'all can kind of look at it from there and review.

So I have a question for staff.

What is uh an appropriate height?

Would any kind of height be um appropriate for going against the wood like that?

I think that's probably up for the commission to determine.

Um the guidelines note that there's concern with placing um uh planning beds adjacent to foundation skirting, and as staff is noted in the applicants agreed with, there is a concern regarding moisture and and pulling moisture away from the foundation.

So uh really that would be up to the commission.

I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to say yeah, one height or the other would be better.

So if we uh go with staff recommendations, can you work with the applicant um in order to get the C of A?

Generally, but it would be best to have parameters for a height that we could work within.

Um that way when the applicant comes back with an updated document, we can look at it and see that it's this is arbitrary.

A foot, a foot and a half, two feet, whatever it may be.

A foot, a foot and a half, two feet, whatever it may be, um, that's gonna give staff something to work off of.

So, what is the current planter height that that wraps around the the front of the building?

Mr.

Amons, can you answer what the current planter height is?

Uh the current height is uh it's right at about nine inches, ten inches.

But like I said, when it gets around that west side of the building, the land slopes down, so uh it will be a little bit higher on the west side of the building than it is up by the stairs of the uh front porch.

Um to maybe move this along.

So um at the the height of nine or ten inches, so where the current planter is closest to the stair.

Um staff has previously said that we have no issue with you replacing that in the current location.

Uh so if the height where the the planter is the tallest adjacent to the stair, if that height was maintained, so um I'm gonna try my best to just note here.

So this height right here, if that height was generally maintained around, and this is very crude, um what approximate height do you believe that would be?

Because I think what you're saying, and and what's been noted is the height at the corner by the stair will be continued across the front or the south facade that will then turn and run down the west facade at a continuous height.

Uh so and ideally where the the wall ends at the fence would be the same height as where the wall is, or the same elevation rather, as where the wall is adjacent to the stair, correct?

Correct.

Okay, well, um commissioners, uh a potential motion may be that the total elevation level of the wall not exceed the height of the wall or the elevation level of the wall adjacent to the the stair.

Uh that that could be one way to craft that.

That makes sense.

Great, thank you.

Um is there any additional um discussion?

Go ahead.

Oh, go ahead, Juanita.

I I'm only gonna bring up the the concern with the moisture to the uh that was brought up by staff.

And and I don't I don't have this in front of me, so I apologize for that.

What safeguard are we gonna be putting to ensure that we don't have moisture uh around the uh base of the of the foundation?

Even though the the vents are there and the flower beds are gonna be put on there, what additional safeguard are we looking to put on there with the concern to the additional moisture?

Yeah, so um as I stated, I was going to I'm going to use base as a foundation around where the planters are gonna be that's gonna be graded away from the house.

Uh that way it gives it a hard foundation to for the water to run off.

Um and then in the bottom of the planters, I would say about every every three, maybe every three feet or so um that there will be there will be some uh drainage uh in those planters out uh away from the house as well, just to ensure that there's uh you know no moisture sitting around in there because that will of course that will hurt my period beam foundation pretty quickly.

Of course.

Okay, and it and we're looking to just have to exceed not to exceed the height of the vents, right?

What's that?

Just not to exceed the height of the vents, correct?

Oh, yeah, absolutely not.

Yeah, it'll be below the vents, yeah, as it is right now today.

Thank you.

That's all I have.

Thank you, madam chair.

Uh, my colleague on the right.

Um if I can get my there we are.

Um will there be um wet soil in contact with wood?

Um there is currently soil in contact with wood today.

However, um that is that's something that I can actually um that I can actually put in to have a uh a backing up against the house where the uh where the skirting is at.

Um preferably that's that's probably how I was gonna do it anyways, because um as I dig through those flower beds today, how that was installed prior to me purchasing the home, um all of that, all of that skirting down there, although it's in good shape and then it is still it's still intact, but it's it's you know rather stained up and kind of nasty looking.

So my idea was to either one bring the uh bring the planting skirting that's in the that's in the flower beds to prevent weeds from coming through up against the uh up against the skirting, or use some of the builder's plastic uh along that back side to where the soil will go up against the house, so it's not just up against the skirting of the home.

I have no problem as long as there's uh no wet soil against the wood.

Absolutely.

And that that skirting, just so you know that skirting around there, the reason it hasn't been damaged is because it's the uh the it's the hardy plate skirting, so it's not exactly not exactly the wooden it should be fine against that, but just for a safeguard.

I'm gonna put that up anyways.

Great, thank you.

I think we'd just encourage you to install some kind of protection for the skirting uh like the plastic or whatever you mentioned.

Okay.

I mean other uh comments.

Oh, go ahead.

Uh Mr.

Amons, just uh a comment.

I don't know what your experience has been in that existing front south bed in front of the front porch.

It looks like there's not a gutter system.

So my guess is okay.

So I'm guessing it's catching um the rainfall.

Yes, uh it it sure is.

Yeah, and um that is something that I do want to address fairly soon.

I did not put it in this uh, you know, it for this for this approval, but and I'm not sure what the uh historic um you know requirements are for gutter systems, but that is something that I would like to get installed fairly soon because regardless of a flower bed or not, that uh you know there's about I would say 75% of the roof line is going straight down into the foundation.

So for me for my protection for my home not to have cracks all over the wall and start seeing a lot of that stuff.

Um I really want to get some gutters on this house uh as soon as possible.

Sure thing, and just for the record, um generally Mr.

Amon's gutters can be approved administratively by staff.

Uh so I can follow up with you on that later.

That's great, perfect.

Thank you.

Great.

I don't think there's any quick follow-up.

Mr.

Amons, um, in in the meantime, as you plan the uh the mortar and uh stone bed on the west side, um if if the width is going to uh extend far enough out to catch the drip line on that side too.

Um in the meantime, before you get the gutter set up, you may want to be sure you uh structure your uh weep holes for drainage uh so you have enough of them in case you're catching any significant rain events over there.

Uh where at where are you talking about?

Um on the west side uh and southwest, I guess, but especially the I guess that would be the west side, the side of the house, if if if the your new bed is going to catch that uh oh yeah rainfall.

Um yeah, that's that's why I want to have the uh not only the slope grade of the base but also the um the drainage system uh you know at the bottom of those uh planters that I put in there.

So uh with those two and and on top of that a gutter system.

I mean, I think I'll be pretty pretty solid.

Great, is that it?

Thank you.

Um please.

I make a motion we accept the staff's recommendation.

I think uh just a friendly amendment.

I think we need to put in there that uh what Edward said about it not exceeding um the where the the original flower bed like the Edwards wording from earlier.

Well, I will say that if you just accept staff's recommendation, then that would technically be the denial of item number three.

Okay.

So um if that's the the path forward, then um work with them to figure a height.

No that is acceptable.

Well, so I I guess what I'm saying is if the motion from the commission is to approve the planners, then uh an easier motion to craft would be approval of items number one and two as staff recommended approval of item number three, then with the conditions that were previously noted.

Um otherwise the way that staff's written it is approval of one and two, denial of three with no planner bed on the west facade and only the replacement in kind of what's on the front.

Right.

Okay.

Does the motion uh so I'll amend my motion to uh go with what staff recommended?

Okay, so that was approval of items one and two as submitted, approval of item number three with the stipulations that the total height of the planner bed not exceed the current height at the south beside adjacent to the stair, that the applicant install weep holes, plastic, and other elements to prevent water retention adjacent to the foundation skirting.

Thank you.

Is that fine counsel?

Thank you.

Okay, can I does the second agree?

I second.

Thank you.

Can I have a roll call, please?

Davis.

I regard.

Aye.

Spiller.

I Fullerton.

I polluck.

I speaks.

Aye.

And Suppovida.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Thank you, Mr.

Amons.

I will follow up with you uh later with your commission action letter and we'll follow up regarding the final documents needed for the planners.

Thank you, Mr.

Amons.

Next case.

This is what they're asking for.

And then if we start, I don't have the recommendations.

Good morning, Commissioners.

This is CTAP Case 2026-017 for 115 East Carolina Street.

The applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness for approval to one.

Replace the existing porch shingle roof with corrugated metal roof.

Two, replace the exterior front door with new fiberglass front door.

Three, install aluminum window screens, and four replace all historic one over one wood windows with aluminum window product.

Staff does not recommend approval of item one based on finding D.

Staff recommends that the applicant install a standing seam metal roof on the porch featuring panels that are 18 to 21 inches wide, seams that are one to two inches high, a crimped ridge seam, and match the current finish or standard galvalum finish.

Panels should be smooth without striation or corrugation.

Ridges are to feature a double munch or crimped ridge configuration.

No vented ridge caps or end caps are allowed.

Staff does not recommend approval of item two based on finding E.

Staff recommends the front door be replaced with a door that is more appropriate for the architectural style of the structure.

A proposed replacement should be submitted to staff for a review prior to installation.

Staff does not recommend approval of item three based on finding F.

Staff recommends the applicant install wood screen window frames matching in profile, size, and design of those historically found in the vicinity.

Staff does not recommend approval of item four based on finding G.

Staff recommends the original or salvaged one over one wood windows be installed on the structure.

The original trim and sill detail should be restored.

The applicants, Octavio and Adriana Castrita are here in person.

If you would like to come up to the podium and introduce yourselves, you will have 15 minutes to speak.

And then commissioners, there is a um uh file in the late folder related to this application for you.

Thank you.

Good morning.

Good morning.

My name is Octavio Castrita and my wife Adriana Castrita.

We own a property in 115 Carolina, and we decide to do this upgrades because we have a problem with whether one of the front trees uh cross the the front door, the porch, and and the windows of the windows in the front.

We've we submit some pictures, but we don't.

I don't know if we have it.

And we start in the process to replace the front because of that.

And the first thing that I asked is my wife, what what what colors we can do?

So will you do the we see right there with the the the two threes there?

Everything fall down and in the middle of the struction and just and destroy pretty much everything.

And we had tenants in the property at the time.

So it was a button.

It's on speaking to we had um tenants there at the time and it was unsafe.

There was a tree and the door and the porch had been knocked down.

I don't know where we don't have this picture right here, but anyway, we we decide to replace all the stuff because of that.

And that's where we are right now.

You know, um we try to do the best thing that we can do, and according to all the the neighbors around.

I I sent some pictures to uh Adrian about the windows that we use uh is all over at two blocks away.

And this side I sent pictures of all the all the uh all the windows that they saw exactly like mine, including the front in front of the property next to the next to us, is all those windows that we find out is only around two blocks around our property, and it's exactly the same windows that we provide.

We never thought there was gonna be a problem.

We put the screens the best we can to match it up.

So you included those all those all those windows, all those all those windows that from front of my or our property.

That's next to my property is exactly the same windows, and I don't see no screen doors except for those metals that they have.

But all those windows they're they're uh aluminum windows.

I don't have no problem about the door replace the door.

Those doors they're not they're more modern than the what we have.

I mean they're colonial, but the what we have is probably it's too fancy too too moder, but the point is we don't have no problem to replace that we that door, and that the reason we put that door is a six hundred dollars door is because we have it uh at that time at the time and we had to replace it for tenants to go in and out of the property.

And so you see right there it'll we don't have no trees no more because we we knock all the trees down just to just to uh to avoid another another incident.

So that's where we at and at the time that that work was done, our signs in La Vaca are the signs in La Vaca are blue signs, not brown signs, like they do in King Williams.

So we were unaware as property owners that we had to do all of this.

It's the first time, so we were unaware.

Okay, anything else?

For now, no.

No staff, anything else we need to know?

Um no, Commissioner.

Um this is um a a violation case.

Okay, so um so there are findings related to that.

But uh other than that, that's pretty much it.

There are no voicemails or letter or letters related to this application.

Was work stopped immediately after yes, yes.

Uh as soon as um we did our investigation, uh the homeowners did contact us right afterwards and then submit their application shortly thereafter.

So they have been very communicative uh with us since we issued the um the notice of investigation.

Thank you.

Uh questions from my colleagues on the left.

I just have one when we're talking about that to block radius around the house.

How much of that is in the historic neighborhood?

Like are they on the edge of a historic neighborhood or all these photos we're looking at from the same all in the historical and that is for staff just for the for the bounds of that district?

Like if they go two blocks out in all directions, is that still within historic district or so going um, you know, since the the um the packet or the pictures that the applicants provided didn't provide um you know specific addresses?

I do have a they have pictures of this um but generally speaking, yes.

So anything between pressa and two eighty-one within two blocks of this house would be within the Lavaca district, but as soon as you get beyond Pressa, then there's this uh corridor between Lovac and King William where there's a few landmark properties, but um but generally speaking that area is not in the district any further Miss Davis.

Did you have anything else?

No, thank you.

Okay.

No other questions on my left Madam Chair online?

Yeah.

Again, can we pull uh your geographical map around them?

Sure, one moment, please.

And do you want the historic district uh explorer map or do you just want Google maps?

Uh Madam Chair.

Uh the historical map around them, because if it's just a small corridor, and the other thing too is how how are we worth it a report made of the violation?

Because one, they've done a great job on restoring.

So I'll I'll state that because they've done a great job.

I mean, we know how hard it is to restore these buildings.

The other thing too is there's a small corridor.

I want to know how small the corridor is and the place next to them, like around them.

Please.

So here you can see the two districts, madam chair.

So the Lavaca Historic District is on the right, and um and King William, of course, is on the left.

So you see right there that um that corridor I was mentioning that basically goes right along Pressa.

Um that's that area that is not um you know within either district, right?

With a few landmark properties.

And so in their property is right, if you can follow my mouse, it's right here.

Okay, so they just barely fall into it.

So they are in the Lavaca Historic District, uh, Madam Chair.

But um, but yes, so once you get to Pressa to the to the next intersection, that's where the Lavaca district ends.

Okay.

Well, and Commissioners if I just might add, there's there's no I'm over here.

There's not such a thing as oh, I'm barely in, so the pools barely apply.

You're either in or you're out.

We have a dot.

No, no, I agree.

I I understand what you're saying.

I just I mean, I'm I was trying to see where it's good, and I I agree with you because you know how uh much of a strict line and roll.

And I that's what I was trying to look at.

Okay.

Anything else, madam chair?

No, no, no, that's what I was trying to look at.

Okay, thank you.

Uh do you have any questions?

I have no questions.

So as when you purchased the house, uh you weren't aware it was within a historic district.

When we purchased it, it was over 30 years ago.

It wasn't historic.

It was not it was not, and we've done repairs, and we've done repairs on it before we bought it before it was about 33, maybe 34 years ago that we purchased it, and it wasn't under these rules, and we had not upgraded anything since until we had the incident that happened and we couldn't just fix part of it.

And one of the reasons also that we decide to do this is because we pay in taxes over 12,000 dollars and a five thousand dollars in insurance.

Just in that, you're talking about over 1500, like a mortgage that we have just for those two things.

So we don't have the the we don't charge that much to cover all the stuff, so we have to improve a little bit since that happened when the trip happened.

That's when we decide to get alone and and do this because it was impossible to have uh you know those lower rents and that area that they charge so much in taxes right now.

Even when I go try to protest, they go by the what they building, and this incredible the difference, you know, the that we have to do something about that.

So that's why we also decide to do this, and not right now, as as we speak.

Right now, the problem the the and the rents is so low right now that we have six, I have one one apartment seven months and the other one is five months that we can rent it right now because for every reason is now in this specific property in that specific area, you know, it and and this the prices gonna they'll go down significantly just to have tenants.

They offer uh two months rent free is because it's impossible to rent right now.

But that's another thing that we have to do that to to improve the windows because the door and the the the pretty much everything says says the tree crash and our property just to see if we can cover all those debts that we have with the taxes and stuff so uh do you have so where did the tree fall?

That big tree in the front of the property with one of the storms that we have.

I have one picture.

You don't know why we don't submit it to Adrian, they've been helpful.

Adrian, they've been helpful.

How we could do that.

And it's only the front porch standing scene that we're discussing, correct?

That's correct.

Yes.

They used to have shingles.

Yes, I see that.

Original roof.

Is galvanized?

It's also 12 gauge uh laminate, which is acceptable for roofing.

And that's why we decide to put it up.

Does the front porch there's two trees that fell down in the against the uh the property?

Okay.

Well I well, I'll ask.

Is there any other comment from anyone?

I just have a question for staff.

Um I was a little c um confused about the the statement just a minute ago.

When the house was, I guess it could be for the applicants as well.

When the house was purchased, it was not in the Lovaca district.

Is is that what you were saying?

And now it is it I I was a little confused about your your statement a moment ago.

That was not a it was not historical.

It's not it wasn't considered historical 33 years ago.

Yeah, I don't have the ordinance front of me, but that sounds about right.

It was yeah, this probably was early 2000s when it became a district.

When they started redoing all of the sidewalks and then they changed the district, but it wasn't before.

But but it was in the historic district by the time you started to remodel the windows and the door.

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

Any other four requests here in so we're talking about replacing the roof.

But you said you the door, you're not uh the roof over the porch.

But you're you're not worried about the door, right?

You're in agreement with staff recommendation about the door.

Yeah, we talked to Adrian, and I think uh, you know uh I have some uh doors that uh that we can uh install you know that's according to what we what we're talking about right now.

Okay.

So right now it's it's just the porch roof and then the windows and the screens, is that right?

The door, the front door is in the porch, yes.

In the in the the porch roof has not been done yet, is that right?

No, we mean it has been done.

It has been done.

Okay, so the windows, the poor so everything else is has been finished.

Oh, thank you.

Any other go ahead.

Uh Mr.

Gallegos, could you refresh our memory on on the notice process when a new potential historic district is uh undergoing a review the process?

As in the process for when a um an area becomes a historic district.

Right, and what what the reach out is um to the neighborhood as as the property owners are being notified of this potential change.

I mean, I could tell you what we do proactively today.

I don't think it's gonna be quite the same as what happened in 2001, but it is a change in zoning, and so you would receive the official change of notice by mail as well as the post-it sign, and so there would be opportunities to attend the zoning hearing as well as city council.

A lot of that information is also usually shared to the neighborhood association at the time.

Okay, great.

Um that concludes uh comments.

Can I ask for a motion, please?

Uh I move to it accept staff's recommendations for all four items as written.

I'll second.

Thank you.

Can have a roll call, please.

Davis?

Aye.

Regard?

Aye.

Spiller.

Aye.

Fullerton?

I.

Speeds?

Hi.

Vasquez?

Aye.

And Sepulveda.

Nay.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

Please work with staff on the steps forward.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thanks, everyone.

Thank you.

Staff, my computer went out.

I don't know if there's somebody.

Yeah, um, just keep jiggling your mice every now and then, but they time out and get locked.

But we'll come unlock that for you.

Thank you.

Can I have the next case, please?

Yes.

So this is CTAP case 2026-043 for 424 Burlitzon Street.

The applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness for approval to install a five-foot-tall black metal fence with a driveway gate at the sidewalk.

Staff recommends approval of the request with the following stipulation that the fence does not exceed four feet in height at any portion of the final installation.

The applicant, Sarah Jones is online.

Sarah, if you'd like to unmute yourself, you'll have um uh 12 minutes to speak, and then I'll I'll flip through the case file as as you present your request.

Did you make her a panelist, Adrienne?

Okay, so um Sarah, uh, you should be able to I can do it now.

Sorry about that.

I guess I wasn't at the analyst.

Can you got it?

Yes, we can hear you fine.

Thank you, Sarah.

All right.

Um, and just let me know if you can't hear me at any point.

Um, I'm a teacher, I'm on my planning conference, and I am right by the cafeteria.

Um thank you guys for speaking with me today.

I'm sorry I couldn't be there in person.

Um, our main goal is with the five-foot fence, you can kind of see in the image, um, is safety.

We've had uh several serious concerns about security over the years.

We've lived in the house about nine years.

Vehicle break-ins, vandalism, uh thousand dollars worth of stolen packages, rocking chairs taken.

Um, in addition to the theft and vandalism, we've had some distressing incidents.

A pack of dogs killed one of our animals on our porch.

Um, another occasion, someone came onto our porch wearing a bulletproof vest, carrying a gun case and banging on our door where we had to call the cops to get him to leave.

Um, and we had an individual knocking on our windows, shining lights into our home late at night.

Um, and I understand typically a four-foot fence would keep those things out for the most part, and I agree with you on that.

However, if you look in the image, you can see our neighbor has a red and um stone retention wall, and at the peak height of that retention wall, it's about just under three feet.

So if we installed a four-foot fence, there would only be about one foot of a barrier between us and anyone else wanting to come into our yard.

So that's why we would we would really like to have a five-foot fence for that added level of safety.

Um, and that's the main reason, just because that that is their retention wall.

It's not going anywhere.

Um, it's part of their house.

It looks great, um, but it is a very wide retention wall.

Anyone could just walk right into our yard, step down into it, and only have to walk over about a foot of a fence.

Um, so that's the main reason we'd like to raise it to five feet.

Um I also there are several homes on our block around our area in the historic district.

We just went with a walk on with our dog two days ago, counted 10 on our surrounding block that are five feet or higher.

Um, we have a person at the end of our street with a six-foot-tall chain link fence around their entire yard, front and side yard.

Um, I can provide those addresses and pictures if needed.

Um, but they were all within the historical district.

So we counted at least 12 within walking distance.

That's pretty much my state.

Great, thank you.

Is there anything staff has to add for to this?

Um, no, commissioners.

Um, you know, as as you know, our guidelines stipulate um a four-foot um high fence is is appropriate and is is within guidelines.

So you we recommend approval with the only stipulation being the four-foot requirement.

Thank you.

Any questions from colleagues on my left online?

No.

Nope.

Um, that's your name.

Uh ma'am, aren't you concerned about the I know you have all those safety concerns and they sound horrifying.

But are you concerned?

It looks like a a prison with the that height.

No, actually, I there's another house on Pine Street that has the same exact fence, and it did look really nice.

And my plan is to plant some vines along it as well.

Um, and they'll grow up, and that way it'll be a little bit greener.

Um, but no, I I feel that it won't look like a prison.

I have a couple uh pictures of the very similar fence.

Sorry, I didn't know another term to use.

I'm sorry.

Um no, you're fine.

I I get that, and and at first, you know, we we were going over several different types of fences.

I certainly don't like the ones with the spikes at the top because those kind of uh concern me.

And I do get that typically a four-foot fence would look great, but like I said, that barrier if um I wish the picture was a little bit wider.

Our neighbors' retention wall, they literally could just jump right into our yard, walk right over that, and that's where our car will be parked.

And so that's our main thing.

We do we do see your point with the four-foot fence, definitely, but unfortunately, our next door neighbor and the slant of our um the street that we're on, kind of make it difficult for that to feel effective.

Um, and this is so Adrian.

On I'm looking for the picture, I guess, of the house from the front on.

Is it going along the right side of the driveway and then along the of course the sidewalk?

Yes.

Correct.

So I've pulled up Google Maps just to get a little bit of a wider view.

Um, but yes, so if we look at that side plan again.

So on that man blocks that picture, sorry.

Okay.

There we go.

But yes, so that they're proposing it around the whole property line of the front.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Uh that's uh that'll conclude our comp uh questions.

Any comments?

Comments.

Any comments online?

Chris.

Oh, go ahead, Chris.

I have none.

Go ahead, Chris.

Just for clarification.

Uh is your driveway the one on the right as we face the house.

Um, as you face the house, it's the one on the left with the kind of pinkish crushed gravel along that red retention wall, that's our neighbor's wall.

I I follow you.

So you're proposing um on that side that um the fence you would be installing would be uh just inside the the red and stone retaining wall of your neighbor.

Yes, not on top of it.

And would that affect your um ability to use the driveway?

So that's the reason we wanted to extend the gate to the sidewalk because our driveway gets very narrow.

Um so, in order for us to be able to park our car inside that gate, that's why we wanted to extend it out.

But yes, we will still be able to use our driveway, but not the entire length of it, just that front portion.

Because as of right now, we can barely drive back in there because of the retaining wall on our neighbor's property.

Anything else?

It's just that we don't have a question.

If there are so many, there's lots of five-foot uh fences right on our street and around our area within the historic district.

Um, how are they what what was the stipulation with them?

Why were they able to have a five-foot fence and the recommendation now is four?

Just curious, out of curiosity.

We we'd have to look at those and see when they happen and what the circumstances were.

Um it is it is possible that five feet may have been approved for others.

Um it's also possible that these fences were done as a violation a number of years ago and just were never enforced.

Um so the circumstances will vary.

Okay, I was just curious.

Okay.

Um then there's a third thing that could have happened is that this commission approved four feet and they appealed successfully to the board of adjustment and got the additional.

Gotcha.

Cool.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um can I ask for a motion, please?

I make a motion.

I make a motion we accept the staff's recommendation.

Thank you.

Is there a second?

Uh I second a motion.

Thank you.

Can have a roll call, please.

Davis.

Nay.

Regard.

Aye.

Spiller.

I.

Fullerton.

I.

Speeds.

Aye.

Vasquez.

Aye.

And Suppolva.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Thank you, Miss Jones.

Please work with staff on uh next steps.

All righty, thank you.

Next case.

Case number eight on the compliance and technical advisory board agenda 2026-061, 2129 West Mulberry Avenue.

The applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness to replace 10 historic one over one wooden windows with an aluminum cloud window product.

Staff recommends replacement of windows 20 D, 20E, and 25 with a window product that meets the standard specifications for wood window replacement based on findings A through C.

Staff does not recommend replacement of windows 10A, 10B, 20A, 20B, 20 C, 26, and 50.

Instead, staff recommends repair.

However, during repair of sashes or other integral elements are found to be rotted beyond repair.

The applicant may contact staff with the findings to discuss replacement on a window by window basis.

So both of you can approach the dais, and you'll have 12 minutes to present your case.

So we've uh successfully worked with the National Park and Service on all the oldest historic structures in the country.

Locally and recently, we have been approved to replace the windows on Thomas Jefferson High School as well as the young women's academy directly across the street from Ms.

Diaz's residence.

And we just figure that if it's in the same historic district, Monticello, all within a few, you know, within the radius.

Why Ms.

Diaz, a San Antonio resident homeowner uh who's paid taxes for more than 20 years, not able to enjoy the same windows in her home.

Um I brought a vinyl window as well, just to demonstrate that we you know uh respect and appreciate the initiative to maintain the architectural structure of the home, and so that's why we're not even lit leading with that.

We are leading with this uh Pella Reserve is what it's called.

It's a wood clad unit.

Um and you know, it's a very nice unit.

The way that we're planning to install is uh a pocket install retrofit, so we're not gonna disrupt the integrity of the architecture of the home.

A lot of the window will remain.

We'll remove the sashes which are deteriorated.

Y'all have photos.

I've provided photos as well.

And so, you know, the main goal is to replace this with something that's um appropriate, of course, and that's gonna enhance her comfort and her security, which is uh her priority.

Thank you.

Uh good morning.

I'm Stella Diaz, and I am the homeowner, and this is my son that lives uh we live at the same property.

And so I want to sort of paint a picture of what I have to deal with every day.

Um I have been a homeowner of 2129 since two the latter part of 2009.

So this home was built in 1935.

It is primary limestone.

It to my understanding, the windows are the original ones.

And over time, because of the way if you can show the front and the sides, the windows that I'm looking at are on literally on one side of the house.

There are ten windows, two of them facing the school that was just 200 feet away that were completely uh redone.

But those two windows, if you look at the um the way that the water falls and the um what do they call the gutters?

Uh all the water falls right on over the windows.

Uh and except for probably two of the three of the windows that uh Ms.

Brown did not identify uh as being uh needed to change.

So um uh Ms.

Round came to do a home site visit, and she did a lovely uh job at taking pictures.

Unfortunately, the pictures really don't uh paint a good picture of what I deal with.

The windows we did not open, and I did suggest this to Ms.

Uh Brown, because you they're not functional.

You can't open them without jeopardizing the window falling apart.

The window, the glass is coming out, the glazing is completely shot on probably seven of the windows.

All the framing, you there's rod all the way around.

Uh uh, some of the pictures that Ms.

This is the inside of my house.

I literally have to put um that uh flannel material.

There's a big old gap.

So I'm looking at safety.

I'm in my I'm a senior citizen, I'm on fixed income.

Uh my son presently lives with me.

He's not going to be there uh much longer.

And so I have to deal with uh this is facing the street.

Anybody could break in.

I have to put towels against my windows because I either get the hot or the cold.

And my electric bill is high.

And more than anything, I I have to, I'm either cold or or or hot.

That's just the front.

Those were not approved, by the way.

So and and I did talk to Ms.

Brown and I specified from the street, they don't look bad at all.

You have to get in front, and part of it is that the stone, the the way they sit in the limestone, you really can't tell until you're get close up or you try to open a window.

I have not opened up those windows in more than five years.

So I understand that of the 10 that I requested, probably uh three of them.

I I agree with Ms.

Brown that we could probably uh forbear those, but the front windows that are facing the street, I have a lot of issues with because again, safety, um energy uh efficiency or lack of efficiency.

And look at this.

So I don't see how we're talking about preservation.

So I want this board to understand that as a homeowner, as a taxpayer, and as someone that wants to comply with all the rules of this historic district, that I have a hard time uh understanding the lack of flexibility and the rigidity of preserving something that is no longer preservable.

Okay.

So uh I'm gonna have a hard time if it's recommended to replace this.

Where am I gonna get these?

I have checked numerous places.

I cannot replace these windows other than some of the materials and and Pella was really the only company that I could find that come as close to what is needed.

Um that's one point.

And then the other is uh I heard that if the windows are 50 percent or more damaged that they are uh qualified for being repaired.

And so I don't know how and what objectivity you have and specifications as to how you measure that.

So I was not given that by Ms.

Brown, and so I would like to see that in writing.

I saw the guidelines that you have, and they're pretty broad.

Um so I don't understand where why uh especially the two front ones, in addition to the three that she recommended, I think need to be reconsidered.

Uh do you have something?

So I'm finished with that.

Okay, thank you.

Uh staff, can you add to what she was talking about about the condition, about your observations about inspection, because she's uh questioning uh your findings.

Sure.

So I'd like for you to rebut that.

Okay.

Um I did go on site and you know, we investigated all of the windows, 10 in question.

Um the guidelines are clear in that if it is 50 percent or more deteriorated, right?

Like that's kind of easy for me to look at and quantify.

Um so that's kind of the conclusion we came to.

There are three that absolutely uh are more than 50 percent deteriorated.

Uh there's a good chunk that are also uh significantly deteriorated, but I don't believe that they're more than 50 percent.

Um and then there are others that are certainly repairable.

Um so really I think that for those kind of in the middle that are significantly deteriorated, this is where you come into play to determine did staff get it right there.

Um is it sensible?

Um in the recommendations, we also made sure to say during the repair process, depending on how this goes.

Things are covered with paint.

I can't, I don't have x-ray vision, I can't see through all that.

Um and there is a uh a good chance that once that happens, they are in far poorer shape than you know, you can just see with your eye.

Um so I would ask you to take all of that into consideration in terms of how we evaluate these things.

And if let's say once they get into working on those windows, um if they are more than 50 percent uh crummy, they could have a vaccination in the past that kind of gives them flexibility to work with the contractor and then come back with us once they're kind of in it with more information.

Um then I will say like the question today is not whether or not this is a good replacement.

It is like this is pretty much top of the line if you're gonna be doing this.

This is the type of um window that we would want to see.

I think it's a sequester.

Yeah, I think the only question is really um does the level of deterioration warrant full replacement for all the windows, or do we need to look specifically at this window, not this one?

Or if the commission is interested in looking at wholesale replacement for the entire structure.

Okay, I go back to the point of the two windows, and and I'm sorry to disagree with you because I live in the house.

She spent uh a lovely hour there, but we didn't open a single window.

She does not have to deal, and she's not a window expert.

So I have Pella here that is a window expert, no measurements were taken, the windows were not opened.

And while I understand that that's a scope of Miss Brown's job, it's also my responsibility and in my best interest, uh, the safety, the uh the efficiency, and I'm really concerned about safety, and I did that voice that to you.

Uh I am a single uh parent and I have been in, and once my son moves, it's gonna be just me.

And again, we're looking at uh various things, and in and I'm looking okay, preservation in 10 years these windows are gonna be shot, they're gonna have to be replaced.

So again, I really would like for you all to reconsider the two front windows.

I understand the other three that you did, you know, the ones on the side of the house, uh, but those two front ones facing, especially since they're facing a school that they just that I'm literally 200 feet away that have brand new windows that I believe Pella uh installed.

Yeah, I uh commissioning uh so then you were also mentioning that the guidelines are broad.

Um can you speak to what you're considering broad because I think they're very specific.

Um and give chance give staff a chance to do that.

Well, they're specific in that the rot, but uh maybe the a better word is it's a it's it's a subjective decision on the part of Ms.

Brown.

And so this is where we differ because yes, there was rot of the woods, the windows are about to fall out, the glazing is completely shot.

For me to find windows uh to replace those exactly versus Pella, and it's not about Pella.

It's about at the end of the day, it might not be Pella.

I where am I gonna find windows to replace or to repair or find somebody that can truly fix this when some of those are not fixable?

And again, I had like 22 windows.

I'm not asking for all.

I understand that I live I purchased a home in the historic neighborhood, but uh again, I'm questioning the two front ones that were not approved.

Those are the ones it faced, and they are literally falling apart.

Okay, and I think that's a reasonable request.

Commissioner Bosque?

Yes, ma'am.

Um so I would like to refer back to what staff said, and uh based on the recommendation that Ms.

Brown made.

And if you'll take a review on this, let's take a walk through the images that were provided, please.

We made reference on how Ms.

Brown went through and did not open the windows.

I understand that reference, but if you'll take a look at some of the windows, some of the windows Miss Brown was of course not able to even get into the windows to be able to open them.

But with the recommendation that the staff made, um and Corey actually alluded to it as well, is they're not denying that the windows not be replaced, but in the process of being able to review it, we have additional need to actually make the replacement, and again, staff actually made reference that pallet, I believe that the company is being referred to, is actually the highly recommended one.

Can we move forward with that?

In the final review, again, I think with the recommendation that the staff is making, it's not the denial, it's just that it's on a case by case to maintain the integrity of the historic district that they're in, and again, making reference to the safety of this citizen in the historic district.

So I think what staff has done is actually gone above to an amendment to be with a safeguard this applicant as well as safeguard the moving forward without the denial.

If I could um say one more thing about the guidelines, there are specifications for uh wood window replacement specifically.

There are also specifications for windows and new construction.

The window or excuse me, the specifications for wood window replacement do stipulate that the replacement product is fully wood.

And so while this is an incredible product, it truly is.

Corey's right, this is top of the line.

You can see it here.

It's it's lovely.

Um that's just simply not what the specifications call for.

In a replacement situation here, we we stipulate that a fully wood replacement is used.

That could be salvaged, that could be new.

So I'd like to also ask you.

Oh, and can I just say something to reply to that?

If you look at the wood, how much that's a great percentage of wood.

The only thing that is facing the street that you really can't tell from a distance is the aluminum clad.

And that's really to protect the wood.

But the wood is uh, I mean, it is a wood wooden window.

Thank you.

And um, so um I would understand why they were approved across the street and and they did come through the or they did go through HDRC to get that approved at the young women's leadership academy.

So it was approved, it was vetted, and there's no questioning double standard We're not it's not a double standard, ma'am.

They went through the appropriate process, not this body, but the Historic Design and Review Commission.

Okay.

And so let's keep that out of it.

Now, did you consult with the historic window specialists?

Because there are several within your neighborhood that can actually restore windows like this, and there are many specialists across San Antonio that can restore windows that are less than 50 percent or whatever percentage uh I have not uh Ms.

Brown gave me one.

I have called uh putty indoors, I've not or windows.

Putty in points.

Um I'm not aware of any I've called um, you know, I'm not aware of all the people that can.

She gave me a couple of places, um, but we were already in the process of this hearing.

So there are a lot.

There's some in your neighborhood actually.

And um, I just encourage you to to get with them to get a true uh evaluation because yes, Ms.

Brown is doing her job and she is doing a great job.

Let me speak.

She's doing a great job.

Please do not insult her intelligence.

And then no offense to the pillague, but he's doing his job and trying to sell you windows, and we need a true historic window specialist to be able to come out and at least evaluate and give you a federal estimation.

Now in the recommendations, they're telling you, they're giving you some leeway here.

They're saying, however, during repair, if sashes or other integral elements are found to be rotted beyond repair, the applicant may contact staff, Ms.

Brown, with the findings to discuss replacement on a window by window basis.

So if it is they take down the window and it's crappy, you can replace it.

Okay.

You just gotta work through them to get it done, just like the school did.

Just like everyone else in that historic district, and everyone else in that historic districts in San Antonio.

I know you one and nice window, I know you want to open them, all that nine yards and all.

But um, yes.

So Caitlin, can you show us please the ones that you are recommending replacement of?

Sure.

I'm gonna do like a cross-reference thing because it's hard to look at them all.

Um Commissioner, can I ask a question first?

A clarification before she pictures.

I'm sorry, I've skipped her.

Yeah, no, no, no, I have several questions, but this is before you do the pictures.

Um this is for staff.

On the recommendations for 20 DE and number 25, are you recommending the product that she is wanting to purchase, or are you recommending a full wood replacement that is not that product?

Thank you for that clarification.

I was gonna bring that up.

Yes, we are not recommending replacement with this product.

You are recommending the guidance.

This is where you guys come into play to determine if this is suitable.

And and the reason reason we don't is because like I said earlier, the specifications for wood window replacement are specific to wood.

That's what I needed.

Thank you.

Okay, so for the ones hang on just a sec.

I want to give you a chance.

You didn't get to ask the rest of your questions, please.

Oh, well, I I I think she's probably gonna go to it.

It was for staff as well.

I'm a little confused on what are the two front windows that the applicant is recommending in addition to the three.

And I know that they were labeled 10 AB, but I wanted to know what were the pictures, so I assuming you're getting to that.

Uh so that that was my second question is what are the two in the front?

I'm sorry, I didn't give you the chance.

So please.

Was there additional questions down here?

Go ahead.

Which ones are the problems?

Yeah, I was gonna say the same.

Let's focus on the front two right now.

Okay.

No, that was my question was which of those seven are the two front ones.

So this is um 10A, this is one of two on the front facade she's requesting.

Uh here's the exterior, interior.

And then these are close-ups that I took of damage when I made the site visit.

And so let's talk about how I approach evaluating that.

The damage that I was able to see was concentrated here at the bottom sash, bits of the trim, whereas, you know, maybe from here up, that window was in decent shape to include trim as well.

No, we did not open any windows.

I'm very aware that these old windows need to be restrung, reweighted, what have you.

But that is part of the scope that is that falls under repair.

That is repairable.

So that's how that particular one was evaluated.

Same with 10B.

Again, from about here down rot.

The remainder was in pretty decent shape as far as I could tell with my eyes.

Didn't open those, but same story.

That's the interior of 10B.

Those are the uh front two.

Additional questions, please.

It's a comment, but we can save it for later if you want.

Oh, okay.

It's a comment.

Okay.

Additional questions?

No.

Question?

Um, yeah, I'm I'm uh new to the board.

Um I do have a question.

So the um historical commission established the guidelines for the windows, which says all wood.

Is that correct?

Yes.

That's for staff.

And so uh does this commission have the authority to violate the guidelines of the historical commission?

Yeah, that's that's you that's why we're here.

I I would just clarify I don't know that I would say violate.

I think it's up to our discretion to interpret the guidelines, but I I don't I don't know that I would say violate.

We don't that's why we call them guidelines for discretion or approve exceptions.

Right.

And I might also add this could be open to a site visit if you feel as though you need to get your your eyes on them.

Oh, I think what you're recommending provides uh the leeway to Miss Diaz to possibly get them replaced once work begins.

I think we're giving you a fair shot at maybe it is worth replacing the whole window.

Um what they're recommending my computer it blinked out again, but whatever.

Um what they are recommending, I think is uh a gentle like nod towards yes, we're giving you leeway, but we're actually recommending approval of three of those really, really bad windows.

Okay.

So the next process, I will get somebody out there to look at the windows uh before we start replacing them, so that if they based on their recommendations, do I bring this back to to Ms.

Brown?

Yes, okay.

Uh different historic window specialists.

Um there's some then again are right a few streets over from you.

There's some another mile or two away from you.

That's all they do.

They go to Monte Vista, they go to Monticello, they go to King William, they just go and restore those windows.

Okay.

And when it could save you a lot of money instead of buying the full product two, you're preserving the home and the integrity of it.

And I understand that part.

I just want something safer.

No.

And we're giving you that leeway through this uh recommendation here.

Okay.

Something though that still requires your uh deliberation is whether this is an appropriate replacement product.

The one right here with the wood casing around it?

Uh it's aluminum casing, yes.

With it's wood frame, the muttons are wood, and then clad with an with aluminum.

Query helped.

Well, I'm I'm worried I'm gonna muddy the waters here, but yes, Caitlin is correct.

Um when we say that a window can be replaced, we just say it needs to be in kind, so a new wood product that can be an off-the-shelf insert, like the one that's here.

With a different cladding, it would just be solid wood.

Or you have the option to go and find salvage sashes and replace sashes as needed.

When we say a window like this is repairable, when we're looking at a picture of sill rot in that bottom rail being rotted, which is usually where it happens first.

They know how to do that and with the correct joinery and reglazing, or to replace the sill um as its own thing.

That is something that could also be done by a carpenter.

Um or um if warranted and the price is right and all of those things, um a full solid wood replacement.

The caveat is the solid wood that does not have that aluminum cladding is subject to rot.

The quality of the wood is not the same quality that you got 60 to 100 years ago.

Um and so that's why they clad those products is because it keeps the water off, keeps the appearance the same.

You don't have to maintain them, you don't have to paint them with the solid wood replacements, they require a lot more maintenance and painting, and sometimes it's not even enough.

You're gonna have the same issues that you have today.

But that is what the guidelines say.

Um again, like I think that this is a good product, it is a deviation in some aspects of the guidelines.

And I do see you're here in good spirit and in good faith.

Like you're not a violation case.

You're trying to work with the historic.

I'm sorry, the Office of Historic Preservation.

We just encourage you to work a little bit more with them through this process.

And it may just end up saving you money.

A lot of money, to be dead honest.

Um other comments.

Go ahead.

Um I would need to let this go first.

Go ahead, Chris.

Okay.

I want to uh second what uh uh we've just heard from the vice chair.

Thank you for coming and and for working working through the process on the front end.

Um it certainly gets a lot more expensive when people end up in a violation case.

So uh your good faith effort is wonderful here.

Um I just want to uh amplify a few things.

Um I've been here for a couple years now, and I have to say that I've always been very impressed with the the work and the analysis of Ms.

Brown.

So I think she you're in good hands with her.

She's had a lot of experience and she's worked a lot on historic windows and on uh evaluating them.

Um I like this uh gradual approach on a window by window basis.

I know it can be frustrating and seem a little slow at first, but I would suggest you uh also remember that um all the other buildings and houses in the uh Monticello Park Historic District are subject to the same rules, and because of that it helps preserve property values and the benefits of the aesthetics of living in a wonderful neighborhood like that.

Um so by s adding a a little more time up front during a window analysis and repair and replacement process, when you write that across the entire neighborhood over years or decades in the case of Monticello Park, you get to have um a much more um uh uh verifiable and solid neighborhood identity that makes it such a joy that I hope one day maybe I'll get to live in Monticello Park.

It's such a great place.

So thank you again, and I appreciate your pace patience.

Thank you so much.

And I thank Ms.

Brown.

I I enjoyed your visit.

This is not about Ms.

Brown.

This is about me getting my windows fixed and for you all to consider, but I will follow the process that you have recommended.

Thank you very much.

And let me let's go to our comments online, ma'am.

Uh we have our our chair is online.

She's gonna go ahead.

Thank you very much.

Uh Commissioner, I just want to uh allude back to what you know we've been educated by our staff.

You know, the moment we start making deviations from what the historic society has actually well, commission has actually been called to a poll is you know maintain as close to what we've been trying to preserve.

You have a beautiful house that we we're addressing right now, and Ms.

Brown, you know, it's not easy, you know, upholding some of these requirements, and to be able to have this home that you're bringing to us, and I'm speaking, you know, from the applicant to come up here to go through this.

I think they've done a great job.

The staff has done a great job of upholding this, and to be able to maintain the integrity, plus the community out there is really trying to you know preserve what we what so many cities have lost.

So and and we continue to lose.

So again, just the caution that when we start making deviations, we we're losing part of our city.

So that's why I'm I strongly support what the what the staff is doing, and the perfect job that Ms.

Brown has actually has done in maintaining these guidelines and recommendations.

Thank you so much.

Uh Vice Chair, I I just have a comment to the to the commission.

Go ahead.

Um yeah, w whenever the motion is made, I just would like clarification, especially with the the recommendation for number one.

Uh whoever makes the motion to state whether or not um the this particular product um is going to be part of that um motion or the all wood replacement, which is the the guidelines.

So I just uh whoever makes the motion, I need clarification on that.

And we are here to maintain guidelines.

I'd add to that.

So with that um that concludes comments.

Can I ask for a motion, please?

Could we go back to the recommendations first?

I I want to I would like to be able to view what was recommended by the staff before we move forward with the motion.

Do you want to read that off?

Oh hang on, uh Madam Chair.

There's just one more thing, the pillow.

I'm sorry, my oh, go ahead.

Um in this area, um, I've canvassed the area before.

I'm very familiar with the area.

Um, and there are um many houses um where there's a hodgepodge of different window materials.

There are some aluminum, there are some vinyl, there are some that have solar screens, some older, some more modern.

And so this is my first meeting, but it may not be my last.

Um, you know, you're right.

I'm trying to earn business, but also you know, go through the right process and motions of it.

We do offer a solid wood unit, so imagine that window with the front uh uh is wood, it's a solid wood unit.

So we can offer that as well.

Um, but is it taken into consideration those different various window types that are in the neighborhood by for this case by case basis and perhaps allowing for a wood clad unit even then?

Um, and then also um I know that we have the academy and we have the high school.

Um are those just two different components, and we can't compare the two because those are schools and these are homes.

Um you can compare them because or I don't know if I'm well early.

Well, speaking wrong, but I think they went through the historic design review commission and they got approved for what they got approved for.

But this is uh something separate.

And what the home is what defines the neighborhood.

The Monticello Park is stored, excuse me, the Monatella Park Historic District has a large collection of different decades of homes.

Some of them were from the 1920s, some from the 30s, 40s, and even the 50s.

But they all have different window styles, and that may be where you see the hodgepodge of different windows and the solar windows.

I don't know how those snuck in, but or they may have been pre-historic district times uh installation, which was in the I think late 90s, early 2000s.

Um but yeah, that's that's kind of why.

And if you do offer a full wood product, maybe that might be miss you something you can work with, Miss Diaz on uh on getting used over.

But it's also a good lesson lesson for you too if you come before us again with another client or something, um, on how to work with the Office of Historic Preservation.

Um, but I'm sorry, I cut off the chair.

So Madam Chair, please.

No, I just want I wanted to see what were the recommendations so that we can move forward because I do want to address what one of the other commissioners stated in addressing um windows 20 D, 20E, and 25 or the window uh product, so that we can meet those standard specifications.

What are you asking for?

So before we make a motion, the the product is what we needed to address because the stipulations are uh one wood window replacements based on findings, and we actually kind of deviated to uh a byproduct, right?

That was being presented by the company.

I guess the recommendation is replacement of a full window.

Right.

Uh would be for 20 DE and 25.

Yes, for D 20 DE and 25.

So I think my colleague already mentioned that about whether it should be a full wood, which is rec recommended by or is mentioned in the guidelines.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Thank you.

Or the product in front of us.

So let's go forward with the motion, please.

Yes.

And that's what I was wanting to make sure that we provided that for the commission.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Can I have a motion, please?

Uh I move that we accept the staff's recommendations as written.

And in regard to the first uh item or the first uh the first request, it be a full wood replacement.

Thank you.

Is there a second, please?

I second.

Thank you.

Can I have a roll call, please?

Davis.

Aye.

Regard?

Aye.

Spiller?

Aye.

Fullerton?

Aye.

Pollock?

Aye.

Speeds?

Aye.

Vasquez?

Aye.

And Suppulva.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

Ms.

Diaz, please remember they're here to help you.

Yes.

They're here to give you recommendations on people that can help you.

Yeah, he can help you too.

But there's also people that specialize in wood window restoration.

I've had it done at my home.

Um I know many others in your historic district that have had those windows.

Okay.

Um fully they look just as bad or worse than yours.

Um brought back to life.

Okay.

If you're familiar with the neighborhood, there's a house on the corner of Mary Louise and Volum.

Okay.

Um that had their windows fully restored.

Okay.

Uh there's a that's fair.

Tell you tons of stories, but just work with them.

And then again, you do have the leeway to if they're crappy after they're taken out.

Okay.

Just work with them and then it'll get changed out.

Yep.

Thank you very much.

Sorry, is there a listing that can be provided like of those um you know historically compatible um vendors?

Like is there is that something.

All right.

Thank you very much for understanding.

Yes, we're sure.

Okay.

Thank you.

Case number nine on the compliance and technical advisory board agenda 2026-051, 1415 West Rosewood Avenue.

The applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness for approval to install a fiber semant siding product over original siding.

Staff does not recommend approval to install a fiber seamen siding product over original siding.

Staff finds the applicant should expose all the original siding to determine its condition, and if determined to be repairable, the applicant should repair and replace the existing siding as necessary with in-kind material that matches existing in profile dimension material and finish.

Should the siding be determined irreparable, the applicant request an alternative material with the future request.

Hi, Michael Spartan.

Uh so somewhere that got misinterpreted.

We're not doing an overlay.

We're removing the siding.

Those are being removed down to the studs, and we are going with the James Hardy back to the same design.

So whether the original we can't see now, but the originals behind there is either between four inches and eight inches of reveal.

So we're going back with the same existing.

Please.

Thank you, Council.

Um thank you, sir.

So are you saying that?

Well, I don't know if did y'all did everyone else want to speak, or is that pretty much what you got?

You're the homeowner, right?

Okay.

Please speak into the mic.

Sorry.

Hi guys, I'm Erica Russell.

I'm the homeowner.

Um the original to me sighting is vinyl.

Um it's literally popping off.

It's gonna cause major structural damage in my home if it doesn't get addressed soon.

Um, and so that's how we ended up here.

I want to make sure I do the right things.

Um I want a sighting that will last, and that is lower maintenance on me.

But um I think we all know that wood siding um has more issues, it requires a lot more maintenance, and I don't know what my financial state will be in the future.

So I'm trying to do as much preservation and upgrade to the house while I I can.

Um and so that's how we got to this.

So quick quick question, if I can.

So are y'all denying the overlay?

Is that what's being denied?

You need to ask staff about that.

Um what their observations were.

There's already an overlay on there, so that's where that might have gotten misinterpreted.

Right.

Um so the guidelines, whether it's an overlay or not does not support the removal of original siding for replacement with a fiber cement product.

So whether you're overlaying it or fully removing all the existing siding, vinyl and wood, the guidelines don't support, nor are we recommending going to remove the original siding and replacing with uh hardy.

Um now we absolutely support the removal of the vinyl, yes, to reveal the original siding and then repair the original siding.

Okay.

Well, I have the one picture on there because we don't want to remove it.

No, obviously want to get this accepted first, the approval, but the one picture that is on there, that's as much as we can see, and it looks completely deteriorated.

So we're assuming they did the overlay too high for that previously.

We we can't know until we see.

Okay.

Wait, okay, hold on.

I do have a quick question then um about that.

So it doesn't seem like a great idea to remove my siding without knowing how we're going to proceed.

It opens up my I mean the San Antonio, we could have like a hail storm any day.

So if I rip off the vinyl siding and it is not repairable, that's gonna delay my contractors.

I mean, they have to order materials, you have to do stuff that takes time.

And to have my house like exposed to weather pests, we've got all kinds of critters in my neighborhood that can get into my house easily.

I'm scared that that's going to cost me more money in the long run and hurt my house.

So I'm just not sure it's practical to remove the siding without knowing what we're doing.

Yeah.

And I'll say that's fair.

Um we get it.

Um typically what happens is we could work with you on a certificate to do some exploratory removal.

Um the problem is, and you know, hopefully into the action today, we can kind of add some stipulations or something that would give you options to explore moving forward.

But what we can't do is write you a blank check.

Like we've got to know uh what the condition of the materials are so that we know what the appropriate either replacement or you know, alternative action would be.

And so um I also don't want to encourage you to fully remove it because you will then have to deal with whatever is there.

And so right, so typically what would happen is we would you know, if the siding is fully intact and we believe it to be original and it needs some repairs, we would require that it be repaired in kind or patched with similar material.

Um and like who knows, like maybe it isn't that bad, and maybe it is something that could be done, or maybe it is deteriorated beyond repair and needs to be fully replaced, but we would still look for an in-kind replacement or a similar wood siding profile as a replacement.

And so I I just don't think that the commission is in a position to pro to approve an alternative cladding material beyond the vinyl without some additional information.

So quick question for you.

So the James Hardy has the same style look as the wood.

So why is it that y'all deny that?

Do we know what the profile of this wood siding is?

Yeah, there's a a textured and there's a smooth.

So I mean you can do any any shape at all.

No, I'm saying like the the wood profile is cut in a way where it's either like a drop siding or a cove siding or from looking at the the other houses in the neighborhood.

I'm assuming it's either a four-inch to an eight-inch lap siding.

We do not know.

This is the only image I've been provided of what exists underneath the vinyl.

So we might need some more information to be able to advise if the hardy is a suitable replacement.

Typically the hardy is only gonna come in a lap, like a laptop.

Not even a lap lap siding where it just you know, clapboard is kind of what we call it, where there's not really a notch in the material for the lap, right?

It's just flat.

No, I mean it's it they're laps over.

It's it's the same thing.

Do you do we have that information?

Have y'all been out there?

I like to peeping out there.

No.

Oh.

Oh, I thought y'all do that standardly.

Not for every case, no.

Oh.

So can y'all just go out there and then we'll be able to do that.

It would require them moving more vinyl.

Yeah, I'm really scared to take it off without having a plan.

Yeah, because the vinyl is warped already, it's not gonna tongue in group back if she decides to replace it.

And like taking it off is vinyl.

So like yeah, like you said, I can't put the vinyl back.

But in in just a certain area to check.

Well now that area is compromised.

Well, even this area where we did get the picture, it's it's no longer it's ever ever gonna fit back to where it's gonna be.

So there's a access point for rodents, critters, things like that.

So what we're yeah, what we're asking is if we pull this vinyl off and it's you know, lap siding in general, can we not match that with the James Hardy material instead of wood?

It's a big if, but yes, potentially.

We have had another case, and this is rare in Montana Vista where the wood siding was a very simple clabbered siding is what we call it, where there's not a cut in the siding to allow for a lap joint, and it's just a flat board that are overlapped at an angle, right?

And that's kind of what the hardy would be a replacement for.

And so in that case, this house had like a five to six inch reveal with a clabbered siding, and the hardy was able to be pretty similar in appearance.

That is very rarely the case.

We're usually looking at some sort of custom profile with the original wood siding.

Okay.

Does it matter if there's other houses in that same street that have the same James Hardy style look with actually James Hardy?

The guidelines will consider each property as you know its own reference, and so we're gonna look at what's on this house, not what's on other houses.

Okay.

Alrighty.

So we need to peel some more back and see where we're at.

Well, hold on.

Well, how long does this process take?

So if we do that, do I have to wait another month for another committee?

Right.

So the action today would potentially be um tabling um to allow for a site visit and it would come back to the next month's meeting.

Um there could also be an action today that approves a few scenarios that staff can work with.

Um I don't know that you're gonna get your desired result today.

I don't think the commission can approve wholesale hardy replacement based on what they see.

Um but potentially um you could direct staff to verify the siding profile and then we could move forward with either end kind repairs and replacement or a substitute that is of similar profile and style.

Here I am making the motion for you.

No, we need the help.

So but we would always, if there was ever comfort from staff discomfort, or we're not sure that what's proposed is meeting the guidelines, it would have to come back here.

Another quick question.

So if we ran into this before, but if we end up, you know, tearing it all the vinyl off, and then we get to where it's a special kind of wood that was on there, they don't make any more than what if we can't, you know, customize these repairs.

So there are places in town where well, when was this house built?

Do we have 1929?

So it it's probably one of three very common styles, and so sometimes you can get those in stock.

Um there's also places in town that do custom mills, which sounds as expensive as it sounds.

Yes.

Um so but yeah, we would have to see.

But late 20s, there's usually pretty common styles that were used in the siding.

Uh Vice Chair, can I make a comment?

Sure.

Was that all staff had uh as far as findings for now?

Okay.

Go ahead, ma'am.

Yeah, so I just I just have a general comment, not even a question, but I I feel just as a voting member of this body, I don't have enough information.

And so um in terms of w what is repairable, what is replaceable, and where that line of demarcation is and what materials to be used.

Um so I just where I'm sitting, I would be more inclined to think about this body thinking about a motion that either tables it until next month where there's more where there's a site visit or uh being able to test some of it and as as as Ms.

Brown said, test some of it and see what the condition is.

I I I don't feel like there's enough information to to vote on this today.

Go ahead.

Can we get some approvals like he was talking about on that way when we to this body, this body would decide that.

Well and just as a follow-up with that I don't know if it's necessary to pull the whole all of it out, but maybe there's a representative sample that would give an indication of what the condition is.

I don't know what that number is, but maybe just a representative sample, which would give us an indication and enough to make a decision.

Wouldn't you have to take off like a whole thing?

It's gonna match.

But that area is is right in the middle of the wall.

I didn't want to get into a corner or by a window or anything like that.

So that's just directly in the middle of the wall, and you can see whatever's back there is already, you know, corroded.

It's 1929 or whatever.

So it's the bottom of the wall.

It's the bottom of the wall.

You don't know that's that's centered.

Yeah, it's about three three feet up from the wall.

So I mean that's not where water's sitting, that's in the middle, and that was already coming apart from something that got a hold of a tree branch or something.

You know, if you remove the vinyl.

You can't put it back.

It won't go back, no sir.

No, it's warped from the heat and all that, etc.

And they did a layover of the previous people, so there's vinyl, then there's insulation board, and then there's the siding.

The house, um, my understanding was flipped before I bought it.

So I'm full disclosure.

I don't trust anything that they did because it was flip flippers, I'm pretty sure.

So the fact that they covered it with vinyl to begin with, if it had been in good uh condition, they would have fixed it because that would have been cheaper, guys.

Like we all know that they're flippers, so they're trying to save money.

Um, but instead they decided to just cover it up with another, you know, not that great material.

So I just want to make sure my house doesn't fall apart and you know, all that good stuff.

But the question is whether or not we replace that siding with Hardy or Wood.

Correct.

That's that's our our question that we're asking.

And the wood is available to replace the wood.

It will not be that shape, I guarantee that.

That is won't be that shape.

It'll be milled at some point because they just don't make the same.

But any older house that we've worked on is a different design.

They don't, you know, manufacturing make that.

So it would have to be milled, and then this could be three times the price for her to do repairs and just redoing the whole house, you know.

Well, I think uh the gentleman over Corey, uh, was mentioning that it actually is pretty common.

Well we don't we don't know what we're looking at under here.

Yeah.

I I we we don't know the profile.

Yeah, I apologize.

I didn't mean to speculate, but I I suspect that it's probably a pretty something that we could uh find.

Yeah.

It's a good idea.

Would you remove just enough of the excuse me?

Just enough of the uh vinyl to determine the profile of the wood, see if it is available.

Say that again.

Remove just enough of the vinyl so you can put it back on, but to find out what the profile is of the wood siding existing to see if it is available.

Well, if that's our only step, then yes, but now wherever we separate that it's not going back for her, so there's no keeping this existing vinyl at that point, right?

So she now has to move forward on taking off all the vinyl because you're never gonna match the same vinyl color.

You can't paint vinyl, it's too heavy for the the vinyl.

Um so no matter what, at this point the vinyl has to be removed.

If we remove other sections, yeah, then now we're compromising that whole wall at that point, right?

The amount of vinyl you have already removed gives you a view of what the profile is of the site.

Yeah, that's the only area that is removed on that picture, and that was from a a branch or something like that that pulled it off.

The problem is it's warping.

So well, it's also so deteriorated that you couldn't get a profile off.

Pretty much, yeah.

So we're assuming the rest of the house is gonna look like that.

And either way, you know, we don't want to repair other areas of wood.

She's having this problem every year.

You know, well, what's the cheapest way, the easiest way to find out what the existing profile is of the existing wood siding?

It's to get an approval from y'all so we can just move forward, you know, after we demo.

What's the second easiest way?

Um she's kind of screwed at this point, what uh no matter what we pull off.

So we just want to know if we can't do James Hardy and we go with wood, and maybe that's our only option.

But I would assume James Hardy would be approvable.

Um it's obviously up to y'all.

Okay.

That's what you want to install.

It's a one-time lifetime warranty when it's done.

Yeah, thank you.

Uh let me go to my online colleague, please.

Okay.

Um, I think at this point we really can't move forward because we don't have enough information.

And I think we have to go back to stack recommendation and directed by Cory, not that he was making the motion, but based on the recommendation and advice that we receive from staff is going to be the best movement at this point.

Um even though we brought it fifty points, if we're looking to support the applicant and support the guidelines by the office of historical uh the uh historical we're just gonna have to do uh just as recommended by staff.

We're just going to have to do uh just as recommended by staff.

Maybe do a an amended so that they can take a look and do exploratory and then move on and face by face because at this point, if we're gonna be moving forward, it would be a denial, because we're looking at no matter what, and it's been stated several times no matter how many times you quoted.

Once that vinyl gets uh disconnected, it's not going to go back.

And then we're looking at even if you're doing exploratory, which is going to cause more damage.

So the recommendation that we have to go at this point, commissioners, is what the staff has recommended already.

Is doing exploratory so we can have an accurate picture of what next steps are, so that it's not costly to them and they're not in violation.

Wait, I have a question.

You said at this point earlier in your thing, you said it would be a denial.

So does that mean I just don't touch my vinyl sighting?

So I'm confused.

What I'm trying to do is not do a denial.

Oh, not just okay.

The recommendation right now is we don't have enough information to move forward and give you the recommendation.

Because we don't we have insufficient information, it's at your disadvantage.

And what staff is doing as well as the commission is looking to is how do we best support the standards and the recommendations, and how do we keep you in to be able to get what you need, and like force stated.

It's exploratory.

Do live paid.

What was it that she you stated?

Oh, I know certificate.

Oh, yeah, certificate of approprieness, yeah.

I mean, I think regardless of what happens here today, you're gonna continue to have options to keep exploring this with staff.

And so the more information you can provide, the better.

And so, yeah, we can work with you to remove a small section on the back or somewhere where it wouldn't be super obvious and assess that siding or do a little bit on office odds, because you don't want to assume that the condition is the same on all fossil odds.

Um and then continue to work with us on what type of application would be needed.

But I think so.

Even if if the outcome today was denial, what would be denied is the hardy concept of hardy based on the information?

You can always provide more information and come back here.

Um you can always find more information and then propose something different than the original request.

Doesn't mean the wood and replace with new wood.

Is that approvable?

Yes, potentially slightly off on the design because it's yes, it might be slightly rounded.

We'd have to look at it, but yes, generally.

Yeah, and and staff can go out there to look at conditions, yeah.

Look at profile once that section is removed, and we can help you assess.

Okay, so please just a suggestion.

Um, maybe as a first step in the exploratory process, the 1929 sandboard map shows an outbuilding uh roughly in the same spot as the current one.

So if it's the original, um you might be able to start there and look at some of the siding.

It's not it's like sighting that you can get from Home Depot, it's like that's been oh it is literally rotting out.

Um you don't think it was an overlay?

No, because the my you're talking about my like the shed and the right now.

It's like super thin.

I see the same boards at Home Depot, just not painted blue, like super cheap.

Then scratch that, sorry.

Yeah, it's not actual like real sighting, it's just board.

Yeah, yeah, you can see it in the picture of the minute, but um yeah, and it's like rotted out completely.

That's not original because you can see the picture.

Uh Vice Chair.

I have a question for the applicant.

So your contractor just asked Corey a question.

Uh, would it be possible for the commission to approve uh replacement of the whole thing with wood?

Wasn't that your question?

Is am I correct about that?

That's the only option.

No, no, no, I but that was your question, right?

Okay, okay, okay.

And and Corey said yes, that that would be possible working with staff.

So my question to the applicant would be um, are you um amenable to that to having it be wood?

Because our our job is to maintain the historic guidelines as as written and as with integrity and with authenticity to the guidelines, and the guidelines state it should be wood.

And so am I correct in that?

Yeah.

Um I want to play the scenario out a little bit to make sure we're all on the same page.

No decisions can be made if we can't see the condition of what exists under the vinyl.

And I think we're at a point where no matter the end goal, the vinyl has to come off.

Okay.

Right?

So I don't know that there's harm done in taking the vinyl off, because that's going to give all of us some information on what the solution is.

Is it hardy?

Maybe if it's demonstrated that the wood is beyond repair.

Or if it's determined to be repairable, then it's going back in within kind material.

Either of those outcomes require removal of the vinyl.

And so then back to kind of what I had said originally, my only concern with that is right, bureaucracy.

So we take off the the siding and oh no, it's not repairable, it's rotted.

Then I'm stuck waiting.

It took me five weeks to have this uh um meeting.

So um that that's my concern, right?

Because then it's exposing my house and or back to the original concerns, right?

Um and to your point.

I am f if it's easier to replace it completely with wood and it's not going to change my price or anything like that.

I I'm agreeable to to that.

Um I obviously I would prefer the hardy board, because again, the maintenance.

Um, but if that, you know, if that's not an option, or if it's just quicker to approve it with wood, then and my contractors are good with that, then I I'm I can do that.

Um again, I'm just worried about popping off that vinyl.

It's nasty, and then my house is exposed, and then I'm waiting, you know, for another committee.

So yeah.

There is a scenario where the scope is administratively approved.

Um the hardy and then see that it's uh some of its or most of it's in great condition, and then there's like strips that are in crappy condition.

Then it could be administrative.

Yeah, it would be approached administratively in i in the sense that the vinyl comes off completely or mostly.

We get a real sense of the condition of of the the profile, the can uh the look of the wood, you know you don't see.

Um and then we as staff have the administrative capacity to say, oh, we can patch repair in place, the profile's common.

Um, you have to come back to us.

Right.

Or if it's determined underneath that it's some's okay, some you can replace with something you find.

Or if it's if it is truly deteriorated beyond repair, then we can determine then if a hardy profile is it, you know, and there are certain exposures that the guidelines do allow for a fiber cement siding cladding.

Uh um, you know, it wouldn't be a 12-inch exposure, things like that.

Um but there is an administrative scenario here too.

Um I do have just one general question.

So um I don't know if this is the right place, but so I bought my house looking like that, right?

Like I like the way, even though it's vinyl and I need to fix the vinyl, like it's is if the vinyl is good, it's aesthetically pleasing.

What if I take off the siding and yeah, the under one, maybe we can replace it, but it doesn't look like that, and it's not aesthetically pleasing anymore.

Is there I mean, is that open to any history or am I just SOL?

This is I've only been a homeowner for two years, and I didn't realize what went into buying a historic home.

So just asking guys.

I know it's not my house, but I'm optimistic that you're gonna have nice siding under there.

I think there's a really good chance.

Okay.

We're gonna hold you to that.

Yeah.

You might have to scrape it.

You might have to scrape it and paint it and that sort of thing, but typically what happens is the vinyl encapsulates it, and it usually can preserve it for 30, 40 years if it's been on there for that long.

I I would like uh vice chair.

Just make sure everyone.

Did you so it's my understanding that we could remove you could remove all the vinyl.

And then staff could make a uh a determination of the appropriate wood subject to go forward.

I support that.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, no, I just want to say this to the applicant, and and and I feel your frustration.

I I do.

Um I just really uh and I I'm speaking on behalf of the whole commission.

Thank you so much for coming at it from the beginning.

Um most of the cases that our particular commission sees are violation cases, which end up being a lot more expensive because 75% of the work is done, 80% of the work is done.

So I just genuinely appreciate you coming at the forefront at the beginning.

Um this is our first historic.

I'm so sorry.

As as Spartan, I'm Melanie.

I'm the office manager.

My name is Melanie Rodriguez.

I'm the office manager Spartan.

We wanted to make sure that we were doing everything to par because we have not had a historic home yet to do.

So we wanted to make sure that everything's great.

So it is not going to get her in trouble because it violates her property.

So I just want to thank you for coming at the beginning of this process.

Okay.

One more question, sorry.

So when we take off the vinyl and we see if it's repairable or we need to replace the whole thing with Hardy or Wood or what whichever way.

Do we have to wait till that next hearing or is it something we just email to y'all, send you all the pictures?

That's you'll work with me.

Yep.

Just work with her.

Correct.

Yes.

Okay.

All right.

So then we're going to motion now.

Um the best one.

I can make the motion.

Well, let's yeah.

Okay, you attempt.

Yeah, I can I can make them oh I was just going to say I I move uh that um the applicant no one.

Give it a shot.

Uh I my opinion is it's not enough information to move forward and either accept or reject the motion at this time or or or the recommendation, and I make a motion we table it till more we get more information.

Uh I was even the opposite voice.

Can you send it back?

I was gonna say I'm not able to make a motion as chair, but yeah, you can I can let's do this one.

I'll I'll second, I'll second his motion of tabling.

We need just a moment.

Hold on, let council speak.

So the motion as presented needs to be time certain.

It's either the next available hearing or a specific date within 30 days, within 60 days, and if you want to have a special meeting, you can even have within two weeks, etc.

Um, so that first motion needs to be clarified.

So can you state it again?

Can I have a question?

So if I can get you all over already sorry, shut down.

No, sir.

I'm sorry.

No, once the motion is already second.

There's no more displaying.

Let's go.

Um can you restate your motion, please?

With the time uh that she rec the council recommended.

Yes.

It's your motion.

I make a motion we table this discussion and the staff's recommendation, and that the applicant work with the city to investigate and then uh proceed after more information becomes knowledge.

We work with aware of more knowledge working with OHP.

Yes.

Once again, we need clarification of your tabling, you're asking for a continuance, which requires that you provide time certainty.

The the part of what you also stated was to work with staff, which kind of allows them to for staff to proceed with the applicant with certain guidance from you all.

So it it's an either-or type situation, either you do a continuance or something where you're recommending that the applicants work with staff, and then you can ask staff to provide you an update.

Ultimately, I think you're actually that I I was just gonna say that we could specify like at the next CTAB hearing is April the 17th.

So that date can be specified.

We as staff, if we're gonna go work with the applicant.

If the applicant needs to come back, we'll put them on the next available agenda, which would be April the 17th.

Otherwise, if there's a solution that we can find that can be handled administratively, we're gonna do that like we would do any other request.

And then you never have to come before it again.

So hopefully, so with that, I think though that the motion would be denial.

Right.

Uh well, no, because if the applicant does need to come back, then the request think it's complicated.

Uh so um you could continue this.

You can make a motion to say we're gonna continue this to the next hearing.

However, within that time period, the applicant and staff will work together to see if there's an administrative solution.

All right, give it another shot.

I make a motion, we do a continuous continuation till the next month's meeting and in the interim have the uh applicant work with the city staff to hopefully maybe get a resolution before then.

Is that okay?

Thank you.

I second.

Can I have a roll call please?

Davis.

Aye.

Bergard?

Aye.

Spiller?

Aye.

Fullerton?

Aye.

Pollock?

Aye.

Speaks?

Aye.

Vasquez?

Aye.

And Sapulvada.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Okay.

So you have some leeway.

And hopefully you don't have to come before us.

You just work with them.

Uh but y'all explore things, you check things out, and then uh staff will be there to guide you again, just like the lady before you.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

All right, we are adjourned.