Good afternoon, everyone.

Time is now 3 p.m.

I'd like to call to order this historic design review commission meeting for Wednesday April 1st, 2026.

May I have a roll call, please?

Ma'aman.

Present.

Seveno.

Here.

Velasquez?

Here.

Galloway Mazuka.

Givata.

Here.

Group Traviaso?

Here.

Holland Fetzer?

Here.

And Gibbs.

Here.

We have a quorum.

Thank you.

May I have translation services, please.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Buenas tardes a those.

Las personas que per prefer and escuchar esta audiencia in espanhol.

Passen por favor a la cabina de atrás, al lado derecho para que les proporcionamos un apparato de interpretación.

Muchas gracias.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

The Historic and Design Review Commission is an advisory board appointed by the City Council.

I am J.

Maurice Gibbs, Chairman, and the Vice Chair is Jeffrey Fetzer.

It is the function of the Commission to advise the city manager and all relevant city departments concerning all applications for permits for properties in historic districts for landmarks on city property in the river improvement overlay and for demolitions.

And considering whether to recommend approval or disapproval of an application for certificate of appropriateness, the commission shall be guided by the city's unified development code and design guidelines and standards that have been adopted by City Council.

An appeal of a decision by administrative official can be filed in accordance with the city's unified development code.

If anyone present wishes to speak in favor or in opposition to any item on today's agenda, please sign up on the public comment sheet.

It is not necessary to sign up if you are the owner of or representative for a project on the agenda.

You will be called on as the case is called.

Case representatives will be given no more than 15 minutes to present their case with an additional two minutes to respond to public comments.

Speakers for or opposed to a case will be limited to two minutes each.

Speakers may also sign up to yield their two minutes to another speaker who has signed up.

Anyone who is yielding their time must be present at the time the speaker is called upon.

Speakers will be called upon in the order in which they are signed up.

Following public testimony, any commissioner may call upon any speaker to respond to further questions.

Approval by the commission does not take the place of any type of permit.

Permits must be attained for all work.

Certificates of appropriateness for approved work by the commission will be emailed to you within 10 days.

No work of any type is to be started without obtaining the appropriate city permits after a certificate of appropriateness has been issued by the Office of Historic Preservation.

At this time, please silence your cell phones.

Good afternoon, everyone.

First item is approval of meeting minutes from our last meeting, which was March 18th, 2026.

Mr.

Chairman, I would move for approval of the March 18, 2026, HDRC meeting minutes.

Second.

It's been moved and properly seconded.

Is there any further discussion?

May I have a roll call, please?

Ma'amin.

Aye.

Savino?

Aye.

Velasquez?

Aye.

Mazuka.

Aye.

Givara?

Aye.

Aye.

Fetzer?

Aye.

Gibbs?

Aye.

And group.

Aye.

Motion passes.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

Um, we can take a look at today's agenda, which is on the screen.

Um, this is strange.

We have nine items on the consent agenda, no individual items.

We have no voicemails and no in-person speakers signed up.

All right.

So um, do any commissioners wish to pull any items from today's consent agenda?

Mr.

Chair, I'd like to pull item number five.

Item number five.

115 main plaza.

Any other items.

Mr.

Chair, I'll make a motion.

Uh to uh approve all items on the consent agenda with uh uh staff stipulations unless item number five.

Second, thank you.

It's been moved and properly second.

Is there any further discussion?

May I have a roll call, please?

Ma'aman.

Aye.

Savino?

Aye.

Velasquez?

Aye.

Mazuka?

Aye.

Givata?

Aye.

Group?

Aye.

Fetzer?

Aye.

And Gibbs.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Motion carries, thank you.

You're on the consent agenda and your address is uh North Frio from IH 10, the West Houston 226 Bushnell, uh 40 5432 Lanhart, 2102 Broadway, uh 309 319 West Travis, 500 North Santa Rosa, 323 West Martin, 327 West Martin in 526 Cameron.

Your case has been approved, and you do not need to stay for the remainder of this hearing.

If you have any questions, please contact a member of staff.

Your certificate of appropriateness or commission action letter will be prepared and emailed to you within 10 days.

And commissioners will uh look at item number five.

It's 115 Main Plaza.

The applicant is Alison Chambers from Fort Powell Carson.

I don't think Allison is here.

Is there somebody else up?

Yeah.

Go ahead and come up.

Hi, Elaine Kearney with TBG Partners.

Alison should be here shortly, but unless there's something highly specific to architecture, I should be able to answer most questions.

Okay, thank you, Commissioner.

Uh yeah, I do have um some questions for the main plaza conservancy.

Is there somebody here on behalf of that group?

Hello, I'm Natalie Smith and I'm chair of Main Plaza Conservancy.

Thank you for coming today.

And thank you for staying as we discuss this uh case.

Um can you tell us about uh what prompted y'all's organization to want a permanent building on the public plaza?

How did y'all get to that decision?

So the Conservancy was founded in 2008 when the renovations were completed to the plaza, and it has been hosting events um several, you know, monthly for the last 20-ish years.

And uh from our operating budget, a majority of the costs relate to event production and activating the plaza.

And uh having the infrastructure to support uh public free events uh is critical to the long-term operations and activation of the plaza.

So um having the pavilion to provide and also I should say for you know, I don't like the term passive activation, but having increased shade as well through our public stakeholder engagement sessions was also identified as being critical.

Um and so the pavilion provides increased shade as well as it doubles as an opportunity for a stage, which is very expensive to bring back and forth.

And then the small food and beverage component creates an opportunity for self-sustainability as a nonprofit.

So the intention is to receive um percentage rent from that concept so that we can then pay for a higher level of maintenance on the plaza and continue as a conservancy.

Okay, thank you for that.

Um is the I'm looking at the plan.

Is the kitchen a commercial kitchen, a full commercial kitchen, or is this like a catering?

No, ma'am, it's a catering kitchen.

Catering affair.

Okay.

Um let's see.

Uh so if there's a not an event, but let's say there is somebody working in that catering kitchen and in that dining area, is that necessarily a private affair?

Not necessarily, no.

Uh the dining area would be anybody could come and purchase a sandwich or a coffee.

Is that what you mean?

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

And so the um area to the west, the pavil area underneath the pavilion, is that intended to be public?

Yes, for the majority of the time it'll be covered seating.

Hi, thank you.

Um, but there is the possibility for uh private rentals.

Um if you have a wedding at the cathedral or something, maybe you want to have a cocktail hour or something again to increase the self-sustainability.

But the intention is for it to be open to the public a majority of the time.

Yeah, my one of the concerns I have that is that this is a civic plaza.

And um that it needs to continue to read and operate as such.

And another thing is we're excited to really have it as an outdoor classroom.

We have a lot of students that visit on school buses and things, and also for them to be they already take their lunch in the plaza, but again to be shaded and have a more comfortable experience.

So if this is um so this isn't a commercial full commercial kitchen, so you don't need grease straps or anything like that.

Where's the dumpster going to be?

Um where we have a small wall that's planned.

I think Alison can speak better to that.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, the the idea is that the track.

Introduce yourself, please.

Yes, my name is Alison Chambers.

I'm an architect at Fort Pell and Carson Architects.

Um the idea is that the trash will be in small, smaller size dumpsters and taken out on a daily basis.

And where are the dumpsters stored?

They'll be stored behind the the wall that's kind of uh back of house on the north elevation.

There's a back of house area for cleaning for the restaurant.

Okay.

Can you point that out to us on a plan?

Yes, this is all in the shows, I guess.

Oh, right, because I don't see that on this plan.

Um then I had some questions about the shade structure.

Uh, what is your honestly?

Um when we saw this during the DRC, my concern was the size.

The the ratio of area dedicated to the entire operation relative to the whole plaza seems awfully large.

I made that comment, but for some reason it didn't appear in the notes.

But I think that's a real important one of the main concerns I have, important takeaway.

So in plan having the seating underneath the pavilion open to the public and having it legible clearly as public helps.

But to the height of the pavilion, what is the height of that covering?

Let's say top of beam.

The to the top of the structure is uh 22 feet and four inches.

So it's relatively if you look at the municipal plaza building, kind of has the double height arch windows on that main facade facing the plaza, so it's like to the bottom of uh the arch arch windows for reference.

Okay, okay.

Um per the renderings, I think it and I'll I'll be clear that when I first saw this, I really really appreciate the work that's gone into this.

And the materials you're using, the design, everything.

I and to um correct what are not correct, but to redo what has been done recently, I think is marvelous.

Um again the concern if you look at uh slide number 18.

This is the one that got me a little worried about the height.

We show trees that are really, really tall and they're not there.

Are you planning to plant really tall trees to begin to ameliorate the height of that pavilion?

Um the tree that's shown in the foreground, it's it is a rendering, but it represents a large tree that is there today that we're planning to keep and protect.

So we've done um we've mapped all of the heritage trees and all of the heritage trees will remain and the building is kind of nestled in.

We're also planning to plant new trees as well.

So I I hope that will help to mitigate the height.

Yeah, it's the it's what that height looks like with the trees now.

It's not um it doesn't look at all like this.

Um I'll reserve my other questions for later and let the others add.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'll start with my um virtual commissioner.

Um do you have any questions for the applicant?

No questions, thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Mazooka.

Just a question about elevation.

Is it all one plane?

To clarify, um, are you referring to the pavilion or the entire uh plaza like the ground plane?

Like there used to be so one of the major design moves of this, one of the drivers for the project has been ADA accessibility and universal accessibility.

And what we realized was that in the last iteration of the plaza, they had kind of artificially created a plateau.

And that um today that has resulted in many steps, particularly along the edge that faces the river.

So with this design, we are planning to return it back to more or less its original grade, which gents which slopes very gently, less than two percent from the cathedral towards the river, as you might expect.

So there will be a very gentle slope across most of the plaza to allow for that ADA accessibility.

Uh one one last question.

The um the patterning on the pavement, is that fixed?

Is that what it's gonna be?

No, um the renderings don't quite accurately represent that yet because we've been having very detailed conversations with the conservancy as we feel that the paving is a fantastic opportunity to integrate placemaking and storytelling into the plaza.

And so when we return for final approval, we'll include much more detailed plans.

There will be several types of paving, which we've been selecting carefully to think both about durability and a color because of temperature and also staining.

So it will be sort of a modeled blend of uh earth type colors.

And then we're proposing that in the very center of the plaza, there will be some inlaid granite, which will be an opportunity for sort of a timeline component that will tell several narratives about the importance of main plaza from an economic, cultural, and environmental standpoint.

Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Gibbada.

Yes, and and that will be uh more of a circular pattern that's enhancing that circular shape.

No questions right now, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Commissioner Chaviaso.

Yes, I have a question.

I love the rendering with the trees and so forth.

But for evening, what type of lighting are you all proposing?

Yes, lighting is also a very important consideration.

So there will be a variety of different lighting types.

Um also very important that that will um be uh a smart system that will correspond with when the saga is uh playing, because right now the lighting out there is um it's not very easy to dim it and in contrast to the saga.

So there will be we'll be proposing to keep um very similar lighting along the streetscapes, like the newly installed zona cultural lights.

Within the plaza itself, there will be um mostly pole-mounted lights that will cast a more even lighting throughout.

Um we will also have a limited number of step lights and the built-in walls and steps to make sure that those are adequately lit.

Yeah.

And all of that will be there will also be some stage lighting integrated in with the uh pavilion so that it can double as a performance space.

Thank you.

Commissioner Group.

I just have one question.

What's the uh height difference between the current shade structure of this right now and this?

Um I don't have that off the top of my head, but those are much shorter.

Yeah.

Like a so it would be like double, maybe or one and a half?

Yeah.

So one of the things driving the height of the pavilion is the need to double as a performance stage.

And so to get certain heights and sight lines and things like that, it needs to be a certain height.

So yeah, I would I would say double the height.

Okay, so we look at 10 or 15 feet where we're more like so it'll be over the trees, above tree heights.

No.

Uh the trees are gonna be nestled around the pavilion.

They don't look very tall.

Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Memma.

No questions.

Thank you, Commissioner Velasquez.

Yes, thank you.

Um I want to uh see if uh you can help me with what consideration you all have taken to um let's say exploit the plan de las islas or the historic square uh to some level of like real obviousness.

Uh it's been destroyed over the years, right?

It's almost disappeared.

Is there strong effort to bring that back?

Yes, that's part of one of the pillars in our storytelling.

There's an opportunity um on the one wall, the one solid wall, but just the covering the back of house for the kitchen to do a mural.

Um I went to the Canary Islands with the mayor last year.

It's a gorgeous place.

There's a remarkable story.

And the the part of the pavers that she was talking about and um an inlaid bronze ideally we'd like to have.

And there's so much story though that's almost overwhelming to tell, but besides there's the Canary Islanders that founded the plaza, and then there's much more.

Also, we've been meeting regularly with the Canary Islands Descendants Association, and they are thrilled at, you know, the effort that we're making to increase the prominence of the plaza and tell that story.

So there's many opportunities.

So perhaps on the horizontal on the ground that there's a shadow of that entire um reviewed the airport.

And they had to do work or we we asked them to consider work that mirrored what was there, but only through the ground plane, hoping that that perhaps that's part of this what we're talking about more is more time.

The horizontal.

Yeah, you can speak to that.

Yeah, at the very what we're proposing is at the very center of the plaza, there would actually be um a marker in the sort of quatre foil shape, which is a nod to, of course, you know, seen throughout the missions, but the founding of the city of San Antonio as a nod to the idea of the law of the Indies, where Main Plaza was the axis mundi and the very you know center of the city laid out.

Um so that will be both you know symbolically there and then also woven into that timeline piece.

Um as you're probably aware though, the plaza has been through many, many, many iterations throughout its history, and for most of its history, it was just an unpaved dirt open space.

And so there aren't as many, you know, which history you would go back to to represent um gets a little bit challenging um given how many iterations and the fact that it's been open for most of its.

Okay.

One more one more question.

Uh with respect to the annual festivals that happen there, um will will this stage be one of those stages typically like a showmobile these these days for for specifically for cathedral activity?

Yes, the intention that this would be utilized as for all the activations associated with the plaza.

And and how about for uh food stands and things like that?

Is there are there uh intentional power inlets and outlets?

We have a couple um uh power hookups um available for the food trucks.

So so like this Fiesta, right?

You'll see what happens there.

Is that taken into consideration that that plan that actually works around what it what's been done there in the U.S.

Yes, our um executive director had her baby last night, so she's not here today, but she has helped with all of those events for many years, and there's 75 vendors as you mentioned, and that we can't provide enough power for that kind of maximum usage because it just doesn't make sense from a civil engineering perspective, but we will have um power there for consistent food trucks, and then that event and peak times is absolutely taken to into account.

Alrighty, thank you.

Yeah.

Vice Chair Fetzer.

Yes.

Um thank you for this um presentation and the uh bringing back the plaza to be more accessible and um more usable than what it has been in the past few years.

Uh some of my questions have already been asked and answered, but I do have uh a couple.

Um accessibility to the pavilion from the center of the plaza.

Uh I've seen the renderings where you can come in from the northeast and the northwest.

Can you actually enter from the plaza up to the stage area and food service area?

At the moment, not directly.

You would have to sort of wing around to either side.

And that of course has some drawbacks because you would like to invite people up.

The reason that we have thus far landed on that solution is trying to balance its life as a stage and um give we have about 18 inches of height difference there to increase the site lines for people when they're gathering in the plaza.

Um we feel that many what we've observed is that many, many people arrive to the site from the commerce side.

Um there's the rendering with the mural on it, and so feel that we have very prominent accessibility up to what would be sort of your your first access point.

Okay, thank you.

Um I would encourage you to continue studying that access directly from the center of the plaza, because once someone gets there and they want to go up to the to the pavilion where the restrooms are and the food services, uh I think that needs to be as easy as possible for those with uh needs.

Um the other question is if we go to slide 17, please.

Yeah.

Um my first reaction to the pavilion, I'm sorry I wasn't able to be on the DRC earlier, but uh was the apparent scale of the pavilion, the height in relation to the plaza and uh thank you for clarifying the height of it in relation to main plaza building.

But um have you explored possibly having a two-level roof structure where it's taller above the stage area and shorter above the food service area.

That would help to reduce the scale a bit, uh, give you a different uh rather than one big roof, have two levels of roof uh they could be on the same arc, uh the same type of framing structures, but uh just to sort of break up the the large scale of that pavilion.

If you have you studied that or are you willing to study that?

Um we have not studied that because the initial design concept was kind of this unified porch area um where that's the shaded area that's open air or the area that you know is enclosed by the restaurant and the um air conditioning so that you kind of get one seamless look.

So that that was the initial design concept.

Thank you.

Um that is all at the moment.

Thank you.

I have a question, a couple questions.

Well, first, I most of my questions have been answered as well, but um when it comes to the structure itself, um the current stage structure is there.

Um I know you say you really can't tell us what the height is right now, but I mean you gave it kind of relation to the building, but um when it comes to the actual overall footprint of this, how much would you estimate is bigger than the shade structure that's currently there?

Um again, those are not really not really doing any shade, actually.

Um so the the footprint is larger.

I I don't maybe three times, I don't know.

I mean, we're getting 5,500 square feet of additional covered shade areas.

That's what I want to say.

Outside, um, which has been a big comment that we've gotten back from the community is shade, shade, shade.

Um so that that is one way that we're addressing it, um, but that doesn't include the restaurant, which is like another 1200 square feet.

Okay, to answer my question.

And then when it comes to the um the trees, I know that you mentioned about the heritage trees and being at the size of this here, and I understand that you're not you're gonna fit the structure within the trees that are there now, but trees that do need to be moved, you're taking them and then is just strategically placing them, you know, around.

Okay.

Right.

Good.

Thank you.

Do you have another question?

Go ahead, ma'am.

Thank you.

I always have more questions here.

Um great great conversation.

This is what I wanted because this is such a significant plaza, right?

And every plaza has its own character to your comment that the plaza has had a different design, you know, every couple of generations or so uh just speaks to its infinite usability, but it's always a civic plaza.

Um the landscape area.

I know you're talking very conceptually, the landscape, we see a lawn.

Is this turf or is this real grass?

And how does this get maintained?

Is there staff on full-time staff on this, or is this part of parks?

Um I can speak to the materiality.

So we are currently proposing that it be artificial turf just due to the very high foot traffic and number of events that are anticipated.

And the reason that we've proposed some limited areas of artificial turf is one of the comments that we have gotten is about you know heat and the amount of paving and trying to balance that obviously being a very durable material, but also wanting to provide some variety for families so that there does feel like there's a place that you could sit down.

Today, if you go out to watch the saga, there's um very inadequate seating, and many people do end up sitting in the ground.

So you may be able to tell that some of the um the walls are actually intended to provide additional seating.

So there should be a combination of, you know, you could hypothetically bring a blanket or a lawn chair, and you could um sit on built-in seating or movable furniture.

And then to uh sorry, go ahead.

No, go ahead.

I'm sorry.

Um and then I think um I can let Natalie speak to maintenance, but um yeah, that falls under concern.

We are gonna need to wait to determine the operations plan once we have the finalized you know drawings, but the intention is to be able to have you know a day porter or somebody who could assist with the maintenance and um there is a storage shed while we're have the roller and be able to fluff up the artificial turf.

Um had a lot of experience with that in the past.

And one comment I did want to make was that something which I know it took a long time for me to adjust was that we're by maintaining the trees and dropping the plaza that we're gaining two or three feet in height, and so this pavilion is actually you know, the feet of the pavilion anyway, it's just one of those things that there's a optical illusion happening.

It's not occupical, it's not, but there's the trees, and then the anyway, just wanted to bring that up.

It's all very subtle to the heat gain issue on the impervious surfaces.

We know that turf potentially gets hotter than even asphalt.

Okay.

Have you explored other materials that would be um human-friendly, family friendly, whether it's decking material or something else that would um uh not have that high uh thermal mass temperature?

Yeah, your your concern is definitely noted.

Um strategically I'll just point out that we did locate the turf.

So in you can see in this image that it's sort of to the south side, and that's where the largest uh most mature trees are.

So they will be cast, you know, shade will naturally be cast over that lawn for much of the day.

And then the one adjacent to the stage is also underneath the area where we have larger shade trees.

Um and thinking about you know, parents and families if you're enjoying a drink, that the kids can kind of run around in that um immediate area.

In terms of other materials, just a suggestion to maybe as you're developing your landscape plan that you explore some other materials that would have a you know uh uh be comfortable and be it maybe even more maintenance-free.

Yeah, we'll keep we'll keep pondering that balance with the durability.

And speaking of shaded trees, have you all done uh shade studies on the pavilion?

Yes, we have.

Yes, we have to do that.

And it and okay.

Um so you know that the higher you go, the more that shade moves and sometimes it doesn't end up where you need it.

Right.

Um food trucks, you mentioned food trucks.

Where do the food trucks go?

Um sorry, I wish I had a quicker, but the um the the Lisa Wong.

Let's see.

I don't see a green button.

There we go.

So right in this zone, so this um there will be removable bollards here, and this will still be able to act as a through street for loading.

Um so the we're providing food truck power there and there, and that's very similar to today if you've ever had jury duty, you know that a lot of the food trucks line up along there.

Um there is a new but separate project to install bike lanes along that entire edge of Dola Rosa, so they will no longer be able to park on the street itself.

So we're providing a place for them, we're accommodating it.

I don't think it's gonna be from our understanding with the conservancy, it's not gonna be like a major program, but um so that they don't have to run generators.

Okay.

And my last item, promise.

Um I think it would be useful to see an elevation from commerce uh from the north side, and particularly at the point where you begin to see the cathedral.

What is that view shed?

That is so important to see it because obviously the bl the building will uh obscure it right now, the trees and you know, full leaf will obscure it along with the the canopies in place, but you still can see the plaza.

But at what point do you begin to see the plaza?

And I would make that request for uh your final application.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Offer opportunity for other commissioners to ask any other questions before we get to a motion.

I'll do a motion if there's none to the table.

Don't see any.

Go ahead, ma'am.

Um move to approve for staff stipulations.

Second.

It's been moved and properly second.

Further discussion, one moment.

So um making a motion.

Do you have you don't have anything?

No, thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

And the second go ahead.

Yes, sir.

Mr.

Chair, um the um the idea, the general idea is uh r you know, really kind of like almost environmental justice for what's been done there in the past.

Uh I I try to understand what Commissioner Fitcher is is uh um talking about with respect to uh a dual kind of a uh height uh in the um the pavilion area.

And and uh I mean, just just understanding it in the in the way that I would see it.

It it seems totally possible that that the central building could be lower.

Uh but but one would ask what what would that achieve?

It from the way that I I see it, if I'm if I'm uh imagining that perhaps there's a better opportunity to create some transparency.

And and maybe that's not done by lowering the top roof, but by lowering the cent the the building roof that enables you to see through because getting to I think what uh Commissioner uh Savina was alluding to as well.

She probably has m probably much more specific uh uh ideas, but the idea that coming down Commerce Street, the cathedral is gonna become uh You you won't know it's there um until you pass it.

So it may not be uh requesting a major alteration to the spirit of what's being presented.

It m I mean I'm sure and I know that it's a i any change is a divorce.

Um but uh the idea that a tra that that there could be an experiment uh study of how to make that that object more transparent.

Secondly, I think getting also to to the point of the cathedral.

Uh looking at the plan, I think is page 16.

If you could go to page 16.

You know, the uh the plan is a very uh uh uh um telling uh uh drawing.

And the there's almost no recognition that the cathedral uh as uh as a I as an object, not as a religious uh uh building, but as an object, that that it has a particular access point to it.

And it seems that there's an incredibly missed opportunity with respect to the way that the the uh plaza is laid out in that it almost let's just say uh secularizes the the um plaza, which would be it seems it would be an incredible mistake that uh that that in a way to ignore that probably the most two the probably the two most important doors or first primary most important or second most important doors in the city are coming out of the the front of that building.

And that that it won't one can only ask what do you see when you're walking out of that building?

And and that that should be a major point of design.

Um the uh so to to to to to ask for study and emphasis in that arena and most definitely with respect to what one experiences coming from Commerce Street that we it would make sense to ask for there to be some study and transparency.

Those are my comments, but I think they were some.

Can we respond to that briefly?

Yes, go ahead.

Thank you so much for bringing that up and the axes incredibly important.

Just um we had extensive plans uh or diagrams demonstrating the importance of those view corridors, which I'm not sure made it into the set but that was submitted.

But just to point out a few of those.

So of course, originally the plaza was much larger and encompassed all the way to the courthouse.

So one of the things that the plan takes, and so of course the religious side of it was one important aspect, but so was the civic and the commercial and the residential.

So this uh sorry, my thing is shaky.

This is the access um very intentionally to align with the courthouse.

You can see that we kept um this is the portal, so the side from the river, keeping this is an incredibly important access point, keeping the face of the cathedral, and then also acknowledging this is the most prominent view that you get from commerce, and you can see that we peeled the building back to allow for these viewpoints back in.

So I'll see if anyone else wants to add.

The only other comment I have is that we have a letter of support from the Archdiocese and Father Carlos, who's the rector of the San Fernando Cathedral, serves on our board and has been a part of this master planning process for the last two years.

Um and that overall everybody is can't wait for this project to begin.

So Mr.

Chair, let me just Can I say one more thing about the building too?

Um the restaurant is largely glass and it's um the part that's enclosed to hide the messy kitchen and things people don't want to see is actually dropped.

So you should be able to see um we've we have done some some quite extensive studies about that view from Commerce Street, because we know it is very important um for people to get that first wow moment glimpse when they when they come up Commerce Street.

So um, yeah, so there is a hype difference there to hopefully help with that transparency.

And Mr.

Chair, just comment to them, uh that those details are are real important.

And the the way that you with the with the laser and all that.

Uh well is very thoughtful.

I can't see it like that, right?

The way without without that.

Uh I would still dig into the transparency a bit.

And the the primary of the of the cathedral coming out is a straight line, right?

I understand the angle line, but I think that maybe there's a little bit more could be done to be as as uh obvious as what you did here, maybe push it a little further if time allows you to.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

All right, I'll ask um go by one more time for commissioners to make comments or anything, and then before we call for the vote.

So Commissioner Holland?

No questions, thank you.

No comments.

Thank you.

Commissioner Mazuka.

No comment.

Thank you.

No comments right now, sir.

So you're yes, I have a comment and a question.

Oh, sir.

Yeah, I understand it's ADA uh friendly.

Obviously, you focus on that because that's critical.

But is there an area for pet friendliness outside?

The pets can be everywhere.

So that's part of the problem with or the point of the day Porter is to help clean up with uh maybe inconsiderate pets or owners.

Well, exactly.

That's why I was uh my quick essence of my question.

But the section for you know the little pets to their area.

It was uh considered early in programming with the Conservancy when we came up with an initial master plan, and it fell much lower to the list in terms of priorities, uh having mostly to do with events in a civic area and not yet as many residents in the immediate vicinity.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I have no comments, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you.

Commissioner Maman.

No comments.

Thank you, Vice Chair Fetzer.

Um other than I'm looking forward to see how the plans develop and encourage you to uh come back to DRC or multiple DRCs as you develop the plans to see how uh how it works, how it's developed and taking into account uh some of the comments from the commission.

Thank you.

And Commissioner Sabino, did you have anything else, ma'am?

Uh no further comments.

Thank you.

Um thank you everyone for your input.

Um thank you to the applicants and conservancy.

Thank you so much.

Um may I have a roll call, please.

Ma'aman?

Aye.

Savino?

Aye.

Velasquez?

Aye.

Mazuka?

Aye.

Givara?

Aye.

Group?

Aye.

Aye.

Holland.

Luke.

We lost audio.

We'll come back to you.

Uh Petser?

Aye.

And Gibbs.

Aye.

Commissioner Holland.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

Motion carries.

That was the last case on the agenda for today.

Um, thank you, everyone, for your participation for being here.

And we are adjourned.