All right, welcome everyone.

It is now 5 15, and I'd like to welcome you to our Sandy City Council meeting this evening.

Evening, November 11th, 2025.

Today also happens to be Veterans Day.

And so I want to just take a moment to express a sincere heartfelt thank you to all of those that have served in our nation's armed forces for their courage, sacrifice, and dedication to protecting our freedoms.

We are deeply grateful.

With that, I will go ahead and move into our regular order of businesses this evening, and we will begin with a prayer and the pledge.

Do I have any volunteers for the prayer tonight?

Anyone in the audience may volunteer to give the prayer tonight too if you'd like.

Or I will ask Councilmember Houseman.

Thank you.

Our dear Father in Heaven, we are so grateful to be gathered as a city this evening.

Especially grateful for this moment to pause and think of those who have done the uniform of the armed services and fought and served on behalf of our country, protecting the freedoms that we hold dear.

We are grateful for their service and grateful by extension for the service that their family members provide.

We are grateful for those who serve in our community, grateful for our staff and those who diligently seek out members of our community who are in need of a kind word or a kind deed.

We know that those things are happening in our communities, and we are grateful for it.

We ask thy blessing to be with us as we deliberate this evening over various decisions to be made for our city.

We pray that we will be mindful of thy guiding hand and be in tune to the decisions that best serve those who live within our community and serve within our community.

We're grateful for the gifts and the talents and the blessings that thou has given us and know that thou has the desire for us to use those in the service of others.

And we say these things in grateful appreciation to our Savior Jesus Christ.

Amen.

Thank you, Councilmember Housman.

And if everybody will rise and we can repeat the pledge along together.

And to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God and this will be for all.

Thank you, everyone.

I'll go ahead and just address the general citizen comment period for everybody that is here tonight.

Our council policy is that we won't begin the comment period until at least 6 p.m.

And so as we have a break in the agenda after 6 p.m., we'll come back and take those comments.

If anybody in the chambers would like to make public comment during that time, um please feel free to uh fill out a blue card in the back and you can bring it up here to our executive director, Dustin Fratto, and they'll come to me.

Everybody will have three minutes to speak.

Um if you are here to speak on an inform an item that is listed on our agenda as informational.

Uh please plan on speaking to that item during the general citizen comment period.

We only take um item-specific comments during for those items during um voting items or public hearings.

So just an FYI if anybody may be here for an informational item.

Um with that, we'll go ahead and move into our agenda and the very oh excuse me, yes, intros.

Go ahead, Dustin.

Thank you.

Thanks, madam chair.

Uh my name's Dustin Fratto.

I'm with the City Council office.

There are a couple other council staff members also in the back of the room, Justin Sorensen and Liz Terriel.

I'm Ryan Richards.

I work with um Tracy Caldell, who is counsel um for the city council, and he is not medically able to be here today, so I'm here in his staff.

Chris Edwards with the council office.

Zach Robinson, district three.

Ryan Meekum, district one.

Marcy Houseman, District Four.

Brooke D'Souza at large.

Alison Stroud, District Two.

Aaron DeKaiser at large.

Cindy Sharkey at large.

Hi, I'm Mayor Monica Zeltanski.

I'm Shane Pace, City Administrator.

Lynn Hayes, City Attorney.

Thank you, everyone.

Okay, now we will go ahead and get into our agenda with our very first item being a special recognition.

The Sandy City Council is honored to recognize Pam Roberts for her many years of service to our community as the longtime director of the Wasatch Front Waste and Recycling District.

Councilmember Houseman is currently our liaison to that board, and so I'll go ahead and turn the time over to her for this recognition.

Yes, thank you.

All right.

Yes, there we go.

Will you come stand by me?

Yes.

And then um you can tell me if you want to.

So it is my honor um to be recognizing Pam this evening.

And I feel like this should be shared by many, including um Cindy Sharkey, who served how many?

Just two years.

Two years on on the district with the as our district representative as well.

And Aaron, yes.

And no, okay.

And Aaron and now and me.

So on behalf of all of those who served with you.

Um for those of you who do not know, Pam is retired.

Um I checked in with her just before this meeting began and asked how things are doing, and so far, so good.

Oh yeah.

Nothing better.

Um and I learned a few things that I would like to share just with our community because we know, well, you may not know.

Um her service has been tremendous over the years, and it is it is anchored in devotion to people.

Um yes, processes are important, but what I've observed in her leadership as I've been able to serve on on the Woofer.

Did I get it?

Um, is that she is as devoted to people as systems and processes, and you could feel that in her leadership, and I think that is something that each of us can replicate.

And oh, I'm sorry, now I'm no, no, no, no, no, no, no sadness, no.

Um she's an extraordinary leader, and we wanted to recognize her for that for her service, but not just the years spent, but how she has spent those years.

Um, she's an incredible leader, and we are grateful for her service to our city.

And so, with that, we would like to present you.

I'm trying not to get fingerprints on it, um, and I'll read it really quickly.

So, on behalf of the Sandy City Council and our administration, we present this to Pam Roberts in heartfelt recognition of your 28 years of dedicated public service to the residents of the Wasatch Front Waste and Recycling District, Salt Lake County, and Sandy City, November 2025.

Can we give give her a little applause?

Do you want to hold it for you?

Or do you want to hold that one?

So I just want to thank Marcy and Sandy City.

Um, it's been my honor to serve as the founding director for Wasatfront Waste Recycling District, and then the previous years under Salt Lake County, um, 28 total years of uh public service.

I'm very proud and thankful that to have been able to serve.

I do want to um introduce my beautiful wife, Renee Roberts.

Um she baked the cookies tonight, so I know you want to give it up there.

And then my oldest sister Shauna Skelly, who's here as well.

We just moved Shauna uh from Ohio and uh happy to have her with us.

Um I'm I'm really thankful that this is on Veterans Day.

My father served as an army pilot uh at the end of World War II.

I always want to serve as the end so that I don't really age myself, but um, and then he also served during the Korean War, and so I just want to say thank you to him and every veteran in the nation that you know fights for our protection and safety.

Um I have more I had more to say, but I just can't right now.

But I just want to say I'm so humbled by this uh honor, and uh I really thank you.

I get teary because I really love public service, and I'll I'll still stay active, but not as an executive.

But thank you very much all into your opportunities.

Yes, well, that's for you.

Could we get family come come up?

We want to make sure we get a picture.

Is that okay?

Please come join us, we'll get a picture and city council.

If you'd come join us, and mayor, if you'll come join, we'd love to capture this moment.

We'll do family with you first, because we want to get your family with you, and then we'll do a um of course a bigger picture.

I'm just gonna take all the buds.

Thank you, thank you.

And then we'll join you.

So I'm gonna come this way.

Okay.

Yeah, we're just getting all that.

So I do the very much.

Thank you for all this.

Thank you.

Enjoy it.

My fellow colleagues.

Oh my goodness.

Yes.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for all your great work.

Oh, you've been.

I have a list of things to do.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, I love it.

Love it.

Thank you.

Congratulations.

Okay, really quick.

Sorry, one more thing.

Tidbit, I learned she loves Harley motorcycles and the basketball.

Like was a serious basketball player in college as well, right?

High school and college.

So and overseas.

I just think it's always fun to learn more about our leaders.

There's the leader we see, and then there's the experiences that they have that shape them.

And I'm just grateful for all that you have been and all that you were yet to be, and we wish you the best of retirement and family.

Thank you so much for being here.

Can we have one more round of applause for Pam Robert?

So before we move on to item number two, I want to offer the rest of the council the opportunity to um speak to Pam and her retirement here.

Councilmember Sharky.

Hi.

You're not done yet.

Pam to me exemplifies the triple play.

Well known, well liked, well respected.

I'm a little bit sad tonight that Mike Gladbach isn't here to also celebrate and recognize what you've done for Sandy C just a great partnership, right?

Um the two years that I served on the board.

It felt it um Woofford always felt like a small company.

And I think that was because of you.

It felt like a family, felt like a small company.

We were providing really widespread services to a huge part of the Salt Lake Valley, but it felt like a small company, and I attribute that to you, Pam.

And I'm not sure how they're gonna make it without you.

Well, you just it'd been an institution for us for so long, someone we could count on, someone we could depend on.

Umgratulations on retirement.

Asking getting the chance to ask you questions at dinner.

It sounds like you're already enjoying every bit of it.

Um but don't forget us because we won't forget you.

Thank you.

Thank you for your service to Sandy and to those of us who've had the pleasure to get to know you.

Councilmember De Kaiser.

Thank you.

Uh, congratulations.

Pam is awesome.

Uh as stated, an incredible leader in our community.

I was fortunate to meet her maybe four years before my service began when I was out trying to change the world by creating glass recycling and having meetings at the Trans Jordan Landfill.

And she was just like immediately friendly, kind, compassionate.

We accomplished some great things on the Woofward board, and uh kind of became friends over time, I would say.

And just seeing you and Renee and all your adventures online.

I'm so excited for your retirement and just and wish you the very best.

Thank you so much for your service.

Thank you.

Thank you for your service.

That's you are one of those connections that we have throughout the city or throughout kind of the valley.

So when we go to a lot of um, you know, these outside committees, you know, we'll ask about certain things that kind of overlap on different cities, and your name comes up often.

I mean, that's you know, whether it's Magna, whether it's Cottonwood Heights, you know, but but hearing that and knowing that you are such a pillar in the community for what you do for all of our communities in the area.

So thank you for what you do.

I'm gonna miss your updates.

Um, you know, but good luck with the retirement and having fun, and you don't have to work.

So what a great thing, but thank you so much.

What everybody else has said, I my only um I guess sadness is that I didn't get the opportunity to serve on the board and get to know you a little bit better both personally and professionally.

So I wish you nothing but the best, and um enjoy your Harley and hopefully you get a lot of good weather this next year.

Thank you for that.

Yeah, I'll pitch in a pan when I think of you, I think of partnerships.

This was um every single time that you came, you brought us up to speed.

I always felt like we knew exactly what was going on, and the you know, you exude the competence.

So I just appreciate everything that you've done for us and our residents.

Thank you.

Being the last one to go, I get like I have the easiest thing to say, and it's just exactly just echoing all the sentiments of my colleagues.

But I wish you nothing but the best.

Definitely enjoy this.

I I hope you're celebrating this opportunity and not sad.

Um you know, you work so long to get to this point, you got to this point, now enjoy it.

So, best of luck moving forward and enjoy whatever life throws at you.

How about that?

So thank you all very much.

Mayor, would you like to say a couple of words?

Uh thanks, Pam.

You know, a lot of people don't think about waste and recycling.

It's usually not headline making news, at least we don't want it to be, right?

So it's one of those services that almost feels invisible, like we expect the trucks to be rolling on time, the garbage to be picked up.

So many people rely on it.

I I'm very devoted to my schedule.

I feel like a disruption in the force if I don't get my cans out the night before.

And it's one of those services that really that uh it's not just the convenience, but it's the health and safety and sanitation for our whole community.

It's really the foundation of our infrastructure that makes our city work.

And as you've been the founding member of Wasatch Front Waste and Recycling, you've taken it through so many changes and advances in technology, uh, so many consumer behavior changes, and have really guided it to the excellent operation that it is today.

So you should be very proud that you're handing it off to your successor in such great condition.

And as uh as mayor, I'm so pleased to have had your support for our resident services during my first term.

Every time you've come here to present, or we've had questions or anything that's come up.

You're so quick and responsive, and you just set a standard for customer service that is tough to beat.

So thank you.

Thank you so much.

Now we're gonna move into item number two.

This is an information item.

The city council is receiving a presentation from the Utah Office of Homeowners Association Ombudsman.

Aaron Ryder, the office director, will be given the presentation.

So, Ms.

Ryder, if you would like to come up to the podium, um are we loading the presentation?

Do we have that?

Yes, madam chair, Liz will get it pulled up.

Could you give us just one minute?

No problem, it should be good.

The first presentation sometimes always takes just a second.

So as it's ready, you can go whenever.

Okay.

Well, I guess while we're waiting for the presentation to start, do any council members live in an HOA?

No.

Anyone in the audience?

Okay.

All right.

So you guys are gonna be the ones who are gonna be super interested in this.

Um, so thank you for having me.

This is great to be here.

The Office of the Uh Homeowners Association Ombudsman is a newly created office within the Department of Commerce here in the state.

We started the office, the the legislature created it this year in the 2025 legislative session, and we have been operating as an office since the beginning of September 2025.

So we're two months into this.

Um I started with the Department of Commerce in the end of June, spent some time getting everything ready, and then we launched in September, and here we are.

So, my goal for tonight is to just give you an overview of what we do as an office and kind of who we are, the role that we play in the pipeline here.

Um, and then to also try and maybe give you some food for thought, things that we have seen in our two months of operation that you as a council might consider and might just want to have on your mind as you make your own decisions for Sandy here.

Um, so we have three main responsibilities with the HOA Ombudsman Office.

The first is a registry, and I'm gonna go into each of these in a little bit more detail.

Second, advisory opinions, and the third is we provide education and resources for the public.

On the registry, there was a registry in existence before our office was created.

So if you were part of an HOA, your red your HOA hopefully was registered with the Department of Commerce.

There was not a lot of teeth to that registry, and so when they created our office, they decided to change a few things related to the registry.

First, they moved the registry into our office.

Um, every HOA in the state is supposed to register with us.

One of the goals of this is transparency, making sure that people who live in an HOA know who their representatives are, know who their contacts are, and so that in real estate transactions, you know who the payoff contact is, and we're helping that real estate transaction move forward.

So every person, every HOA must register.

The second, and one of the big changes this year is that every HOA has to renew their registration annually.

That was not something that happened in the past.

But going forward, every HOA has to do that on an ongoing basis.

Part of the reason for that is that with a one-time registration, you would get an HOA registering, and then nothing would ever happen with it, right?

It would just sort of sit there.

And that made it very difficult to keep information updated and nobody really ever touches.

So it just wasn't useful.

So that renewal requirement will hopefully keep things more transparent and more current on an ongoing basis.

As part of that, each HOA is required to pay a $90 fee.

This is also a change this year to both register and to renew that registration.

Now, if you have a change to, let's say your board members, if your board meeting is in January but your renewal doesn't hit until June, you can come and update that information and there's no change.

There's no cost to that update.

But you are supposed to update that within 90 days after a change has occurred.

And the most important component of this is that if an HOA is not registered with our office, they technically cannot impose or enforce liens against a homeowner until that registration is current.

It's a super simple fix.

It was already in that was already part of the law before our office was created, but it's something that we are now looking at to say, hey, we want to make sure that this is actually something that people are aware of.

So just so everyone's aware, right?

No liens, no registration, no liens.

This is what our registry looks like.

We're changing the format of it, we're doing some things differently with it.

When you go into the registration for an HOA, this is what you see.

So you see the board president, you see the board members, you see the payoff contact.

If there's a community manager, you see that as well.

And a couple things to point out, if you see that location section in the very top center, one of the things we noticed with the old registry is that HOAs were using, if they had a manager, they were using the contact information of the manager as their location, which basically meant that all the HOAs were like in Lehigh or something, which is not actually accurate.

So we're trying to change this to say, tell us where you are physically located, and then also if you have a contact information for a manager or somebody else, great, list that as well.

But we want to know where you physically are located.

Also, in the top left corner, you'll see you'll see some information there.

Um, that red note says this HOA is subject to a master HOA.

One of the things we also wanted to do was to try and highlight relationships between different levels of HOAs.

So if you live in daybreak, you might be subject to three different HOAs just based on how that community was developed.

And it's hard to know that if you're a homeowner, you may move into that home and just think, oh, I have an HOA, I have one HOA.

But that's not actually the case.

And what was happening is people were getting bills from names from HOAs they didn't recognize, that they weren't paying them, it was causing problems.

And same with a real estate transaction.

If you have to provide payment information to multiple HOAs, and you don't know who they are, that causes problems and it can delay the real estate transaction.

So the goal with this right now is just a note while we're kind of moving everybody into this new registry, but the goal eventually is to actually show those relationships so that over time, you know, you when you log in and see or when you search your HOA, you see, oh, I'm also subject to these other HOAs.

So we're trying to build in some additional functionality there.

Um data from our registry.

These numbers are actually slightly outdated.

We have just over 3,500 HOAs that have registered on the new registry so far.

Um we have just under 400 master HOAs and then over 3,000 sub-associations.

So again, like in a daybreak snare, you'd have a master HOA and then sub-associations, sub-associations below that.

Top cities, obviously, there are more than five there.

I wanted to show where Sandy fell in the list.

Um, so Sandy actually is near the top for HOAs in terms of number of HOAs in the city.

The map shows you the breakdown of where they're located geographically.

No surprise here.

Most of them are along the Wasatch Front and then down in the St.

George area.

Sandy, Sandy specific.

The map here is a map of Salt Lake County, so you can kind of see where they're spread out in Salt Lake County.

But in Sandy specifically, there are about a hundred HOAs registered, 16 master HOAs and about 88 sub-associations.

And then the breakdown between condos and non-condos is pretty even.

We've had one opinion request come in from Sandy that we're working through right now, but that's pretty much what Sandy looks like at the moment in terms of HOAs.

Okay, advisory opinions.

Um, let me tell you how our advisory opinion process works.

When we're going through an opinion, there are certain things that a homeowner, certain requirements of homeowner must meet in order to bring an opinion to us.

When we get a request, we take a look at it, and usually have to call the applicant and say, hey, give us more information.

Can you clarify this?

Help us understand this.

We only deal with violations of state statute.

So we don't get into municipal code, we don't get into federal law.

We're looking specifically at state statute.

If a homeowner or an association feels like there has been a violation of state statute, they can come to our office and request an opinion.

And so we kind of verify some of this information with the applicant, and in that application, the person has to tell us who else should be part of that process.

Usually it's a board members, a president, sometimes a manager or a developer.

And then we reach out to those responding parties and say, hey, this opinion request came in.

Here's the issue, here's what we're looking for.

We're gonna send you a notice and ask you to provide us some information from your side of this.

As an office, we do not have an investigative power.

So some of the offices in the Department of Commerce, like uh the Division of Consumer Protection and Doppel, they have investigative powers.

We don't.

So we have to take everything based on what people give us, and then make an evaluation accordingly.

The goal for us is to be a neutral party, right?

We are here to just look at the law, to look at state statute, and to say, hey, this is how it's supposed to work.

It's about clarification and it's about helping people understand what the law actually is so that they can be successful and happy in these communities.

So that's how that's kind of what we do with this process.

When we get information from the responding parties, we then reach back out to the applicant and say, okay, here's what they told us.

Is there anything else you want to let us know before we proceed?

And then from there we go forward.

Throughout this process, as you'll see, we have multiple points where we're checking for jurisdiction.

There are certain things we just don't have jurisdiction for.

But if we think we might have jurisdiction and it's unclear, we proceed until it's clear.

And uh, and so we're kind of doing a constant check all the way through this process.

The other thing that we'll try and do is potentially resolve things informally.

We don't really care if we actually issue an opinion, but if we can get to a resolution, great, that's terrific.

Um, my favorite story with this the very first opinion that we got, very very first one that came in.

Um, a gentleman actually came into our office, which we don't really have a way to receive people in our office, but he physically came into the building with a binder of information, and he said, I need your help.

And what had happened is he had a cabin in Bear Lake, and the HOA had been having a long time debate over whether or not short-term rentals were allowed.

Rentals longer than 30 days were explicitly allowed in their governing documents, but their documents were silent on rentals shorter than 30 days.

So to the homeowner, his opinion was you don't say I can't, therefore I can.

And the HOA board said, nope, we explicitly don't allow it, so therefore you can't.

And they've been fighting about it for a while.

Um, the board in their efforts to try and move this forward, decided to issue a fine on this homeowner for violating the governing documents.

That fine was 314,000.

Um, yes, and that is a reaction we get every time.

314,000 for short-term rentals, and essentially what they had done is they had calculated how much money he could have made on Airbnb if he had rented it at a certain rate over a certain period of time, and that's the fine that they issued.

And so he came to us and said, I cannot afford this.

If this is valid, if this goes through, I will have to sell this property.

Like I don't have another option, I'll have to litigate it.

So we called the HOA and said, Hey, can you tell us what happened?

Like tell us what's going on here.

A few days later, we got a response from their attorney that basically said, you know what, we were just about to drop this fine.

This was like you kind of jumped the gun on us.

If you'd just given us like a few more days, this would have been taken care of, like, you know, we're we're dropping the fine.

And I think what had happened is they had not talked to their attorney before they actually did this.

And once we called, they then called their attorney, and he said, wait a minute, what?

And now here we are.

So informal resolution is a great way to go.

No opinion was issued, but they were able to get to a resolution.

Don't know what happened on the issue of the short-term rentals, that's outside of our jurisdiction.

We were ambivalent under state law, you can go either way.

So we said you guys are gonna have to duke that out as a board and as an association, but the fine itself was dropped.

These are the most common issues for opinions that we have received to date.

By far the biggest are compliance with and enforcement of governing documents, uh, fees and assessments, access to records, maintenance of common areas, all of those are pretty high on the list.

Again, we're like eight weeks into this.

were ambivalent under state law you can go either way so we said you guys are gonna have to duke that out as a board and as an association but the fine itself was dropped these are the most common issues for opinions that we have received to date by far the biggest are compliance with and enforcement of governing documents fees and assessments access to records maintenance of common areas all of those are pretty high on the list again we're like eight weeks into this I think we have 35 opinions that we have received so far 35 opinion requests so we're getting about one a day on average from homeowner and they're all from homeowners so far who who are asking for help so you know um education and training is the last thing that we provide or the third thing that we provide there are lots of things we're looking at with this and the goal here is how do we help the public what are things that we could offer that would be helpful to people so things that we're thinking about are know before you buy if you buy into an HOA community it is very different than buying just a single family home in its own you know that's not in an HOA so what should you know what questions should you be asking what should you be thinking about before you buy into that what are the rights and responsibilities of board members what should they know what should they be aware of what are the rights and responsibilities of homeowners how do you create or dissolve an HOA et cetera so those are all things that we're looking at we're always looking for feedback on this too so if there are things specifically to either you all as a city or to residents of the community who have questions and would like us to look at things we're always open for that feedback.

These are some of the this is some of the data on our training as I said all of our opinion requests have come from homeowners but what's interesting is that most of our trainings are not from homeowners most of them are coming from board members who are saying we do not know what we're supposed to do.

Can you help us understand our responsibilities?

Or they're coming from third party groups which I would include Sandy City in that you know groups who are saying hey we want to understand this better can you help us come in and talk about what you're seeing.

Among the board members who are asking for training generally it's help us understand what we're supposed to do that is by far the biggest topic.

Some of them have questions on budgets or insurance or other types of things but by far the biggest one is we just don't know what we're supposed to do.

So the thing I want to leave with you at the end to the food for thought and then I'll open this up for questions is this quote from Ernest Hemingway remember everything is right until it's wrong you'll know when it is wrong.

HOAs are an interesting area and one of the things I have come to appreciate in my time in this position is that they're very much an invisible part of the housing industry right now.

A lot of people know about HOAs theoretically but a lot of the conversations don't actually include HOAs.

So in the world of land development in the world of our housing crisis and housing shortage and all those things there are lots of conversations about what a city does and what a city provides or a county and what a developer does and what a developer provides.

And the thing that I want to encourage you to think about is that any time responsibility or costs are shifted onto a developer that ultimately means that those costs are going to be paid by homeowners and HOAs are a perfect example of that.

HOAs are becoming increasingly complex especially in new areas areas of new development where you may not have a lot of infrastructure I was sitting in a meeting with the land use task force and listening to county commissioners talk about how they can't have any more roads in the county because it's expensive and it's hard to maintain what that means is that if any new roads must be private they're going to be in HOAs and that means that homeowners are then going to be on the hook for covering the cost of those roads and that infrastructure so you know when we're looking at housing development when we're looking at these types of things when you're looking at zoning conversations I know you've got one on the list for tonight anything that pushes costs down onto homeowners is a cost that people are going to have to bear and where I am becoming increasingly concerned is that a lot of HOAs are not really financially stable and that presents a big problem if they go down a path of not being financially solvent.

There aren't a lot of options for an HOA if you don't have resources available.

You're really looking at dissolution or you're looking at taking out a loan or you're looking at a very expensive special assessment to try and get yourself back on track.

We very much have a culture in Utah of being frugal of not wanting to spend money that's a great thing but if you live in an HOA you should probably expect that you're going to be paying fees you should expect those fees to go up.

You should expect to be replenishing your reserves because if you're not and if the HOA is eating into the reserves and not replenishing them through fees you put yourself in a position where when the roads require maintenance you don't have the money to address that perfect case for this was the KSL article about the HOA in Provo the townhomes with the decks that were rotting out I don't know if any of you saw this and the decks had not been built right so water had gotten in there and had rotted them out.

$17,000 is a lot of money, especially in this economy, and if you don't have the money to pay that, you can pay it over time, but you have to pay it with interest, or you have to sell.

And that is a huge expense for people to bear suddenly, right?

And uh, and that can affect the ability to transfer property.

One uh real estate broker called me and said I was trying to help a homeowner buy a condo in Sandy, and one of the buildings in the complex had some structural damage, it was going to cost about a hundred thousand dollars to repair.

The HOA had not been raising fees, had not been replenishing their reserves.

So when the lender came in and looked at the budget and the minutes for the HOA, they saw that there was this hundred thousand dollar cost coming up, and that the HOA had 20,000 in their bank account and their reserves, and the lender said we will not back this, we will not back this transaction.

And that's a you know, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac institutions saying they won't back that.

That can affect then the seller's ability to sell that property.

So I'm you know, I'm presenting this as a little bit of a worst case scenario just to highlight some of the challenges that can come with an HOA when things are not managed properly.

At the end of the day, there are a lot of great things that HOAs can provide to a community.

There really are, but it's important that the people who are making the decisions that lead to an HOA, as well as the people who are living in an HOA understand the full impact of all of those decisions and that pipeline and the costs that are associated with it.

Because in our discussions about housing affordability, it's not just the base price tag, you know, it's the base price tag plus the fees, and plus the other things that you're gonna be dealing with.

So anyway, I will leave it there, open it to questions, and let you guys take it.

Who would like to go first?

Councilmember Robinson.

You all are gonna have to wait, apparently.

So well, I'm gonna preface this by saying I'm not an expert in HOAs in any capacity.

So if this question is dumb, I apologize ahead of time.

No dumb questions.

Well, you you've your presentation has made me think as a local policymaker and as the land use authority of our city from your perspective and what you know now, granted I I fully understand that your office is still kind of getting their feet underneath them, and you know, you're still trying to build things up a little bit.

But my burning question through your entire presentation was what can cities do differently, or how can cities I don't know if adjust is the right word or what?

I I gotta figure out that term, but like how how can cities work better with HOAs?

Because I think the worst case scenario that you just mentioned, Aaron, is one that probably is common with these types of developments, and it just made me think like what can we do as Sandy City with the authority that we do have with land use and zoning and and and being able to make some modifications there.

What can we do?

That's probably the first part of my question, and then my second part would be along the same lines, but coming back at you like can a city reach out to your office with feedback for the legislature?

Because you you painted a really good picture of your lane is statutorily built for you, like you have to stay in your lane.

At what point can a city provide you feedback of issues that we are seeing with HOAs, so either state code can be addressed to help both the homeowner and the property owner.

I think that's important.

Yeah, but like I'm just trying to figure out how how local policymakers can use your resources to both send information to the legislature but also get information from you to make proper adjustments.

Yeah, no, those are great questions.

So I'll answer the second one first.

You can reach out to us anytime.

The legislature is looking to our office to make recommendations on policy.

We're not making a ton for the 2026 session because we're new and I don't want to make recommendations before we have a lot of data, but we are collecting a lot of information, and so we are certainly, you know, I I give presentations like this.

I was down in Juad County giving a presentation to a lot of the city planners in Juag County.

They know development's coming for them next, and so they have a lot of questions on this, right?

So you can you can reach out to us and give us feedback literally at any time.

Um that's really important.

And I am I also sit on some of the groups that deal with policy, you know, land use policy.

So I'm part of the land use task force, I'm part of the construction fraud task force through the Department of Commerce, and even with the land use task force, what I'm finding is that some of the questions that I'm now able to start asking are questions that people have not thought about in the past.

For example, last week of the land use task force meeting they were talking about annexation and having this long conversation there was a pause and I said well what would happen if an HOA were developed and built outside of city limits.

And then there was an initiative to annex that HOA or that area into the city homeowners, residents, property owners can opt out of an annexation plan.

So could you have homeowners within an HOA opt out of an annexation plan but if the plan if the initiative still passed which could you end up with half of the HOA in the city limits and half of it outside the city limits and the whole room just stared at me for like two minutes like it was just dead silent.

And uh and finally someone said I don't know we've never thought about that.

But you can see the issues that would present right where let's say that HOA then dissolved all of a sudden you have a sandy scenario where the county has to handle part of the part of the community the city handles part of the community you have islands and you're all under the umbrella of an hoa and the governing documents of an HOA gets complicated really fast.

But nobody thought of the question nobody thought about it before.

So part of what our office is also trying to do is to highlight policy things that the legislature or that the policymakers should be thinking about I had a long meeting with Steve Waldrup who's the governor's housing person you know and just said hey this housing plan is great but but it's driving everything into an HOA and you don't even mention the word HOA anywhere in this housing plan.

None of your definitions account for things like fees or anything like that.

So if you really want to get at where this is going the conversation can't just be here between developers and municipalities it's got to go all the way down to homeowners and to the ultimate impact on homeowners.

So to answer your second question we're looking for all that information all the time because it helps us all the time now remind me of your first question it was along the same lines but um working how can we be better with HOAs.

Right.

Sandy's in a little bit of an interesting position where you know rural Utah is looking at development outward right they're looking at infill and they're looking at the development outward.

Sandy Sandy is unique because you've had islands and you've had all these kind of weird things in Sandy but a lot of what's happening a lot of what happens with HOAs I would guess in Sandy is more on the infill side so the question there for you guys is zoning and how you decide to rezone certain areas.

Sometimes what happens and I can understand the dynamic of this it makes a lot of sense cities are often put in a position where they are told like we have to develop you have to develop you have to make space for density and for housing and for pushing all of these different things so that we have more supply it's all about supply right driving supply and sometimes that is hard on cities who may not have the resources to keep up with that pace.

And so that's when things can shift over to a developer to handle the pressure to grow and to do it quickly.

When it gets pushed over to a developer though it's going to get pushed down onto homeowners in some way so the way the types of tools that are available I think you know there are PIDs there are TIFFs there are infrastructure financing districts they all do different things a PID or a TIFF is ultimately going to r result in a cost to the homeowner let's say you take a PID for example a developer gets a bond to build out infrastructure and then that bond gets attached to the homes as an additional payment on those homes but that's not really affecting the base price tag of the house right but it's an extra cost it's kind of a hidden cost.

Whereas an infrastructure financing district that has to be paid back before you can sell any of the property and so the home the house prices might be a little bit higher but you're getting a more true cost of what that actually looks like so I think for you guys some of it is in the zoning decisions that you make if you're going to rezone if you're going to look at infill what does that look like but also then in terms of just interacting with HOAs themselves right that is I mean frankly that's outside of our jurisdiction right we don't do municipal stuff but thinking about the ordinances that you all vote on and implement and how those would impact HOAs also I think is a big thing because that's another one where people you know something that impacts an HOA might actually have a slightly different result than how it would impact any other neighborhood.

Yeah and and I appreciate your insight I think the the two scenarios that you mentioned with both my questions are very real like that that those are those are issues that that we will have to deal with and are dealing with as a city and so I guess I would encourage the state to like really help cities out to manage that um level of government because it really is it does feel like kind of a mini government with within the boundaries yeah HOAs are very much a shadow government.

Because it really is, it does feel like kind of a mini government with within the boundaries.

Yeah, HOAs are very much a shadow government.

And and I I don't know if that's right.

I'll speak straight up.

I don't know if anybody here is like super pro HOA and I'm gonna get stoned after this, but like I don't know if that's right.

And and as a local policymaker, like I I don't know if we can take action to limit the impact of an HOA in our city.

It is something that I'm curious about, but I'm also a short timer, so I don't know if anybody else up here is curious about it.

But it is, I just again I mentioned that as when these issues do hit this room, those are the thoughts that enter our mind.

And so I would just strongly encourage, you know, take that as feedback.

Uh strongly encourage some resources to help cities navigate this this other level of government.

Yeah, well, that's you know, again, those are things that we're looking at resources to say how do we help, how do how do we as an office actually help people?

But also when we're talking to these state policymakers, what are the things that they should be thinking about in terms of the pressure on cities and how to maybe adjust that so that we're not just looking to HOAs as our only option without really thinking about the impact of HOAs?

Thank you.

We'll go to council member Sharkey.

Boy, I was so relieved to hear about this when this announcement was made.

And Aaron, I am so glad it's you.

Um just some fundamental questions.

Is this a free service to anyone who reaches out to the state?

Oh, good question.

Yes, the advisory opinions are not, they are a hundred and fifty dollar non-refundable fee, um, and that's paid by the applicant.

Okay.

Do you get into other issues, enforcement related issues like requirements for reserve studies and things like that?

Through our advisory opinions, we would.

So if a homeowner felt like their board was not doing the reserve studies and not complying with the requirements of state statute, then that would be a perfect one for an advisory opinion to come to us, we'd look at it, and if that were actually the case, then we would issue an opinion to that effect.

The opinions themselves are not legally binding.

Where the teeth comes in is that if the issue, the same issue and the opinion were to get litigated for further, and the court agreed with our assessment, they could award attorney's fees to the prevailing party.

I'm looking for I'm hoping that what your office brings, well, I'm hoping it offloads a lot of headaches from us.

Meaning that you know, so many there's so much conflict within HOAs, and we're asked to step in and make decisions and intervene and resolve these things.

And so what I was looking for was what can we just turn around to refer to you?

When it comes our way, are this list of the 10 most common issues?

Are those all fair game?

Anything that comes within those 10, we can just say not us, call Aaron Ryder.

We can do that.

I mean, anything that deals with state statute, you can send to us.

If it's a municipal issue, then we'll have to send that right back to you.

But if it's an issue dealing with state statute, then yes, you can send them to us.

You can send anybody to us, right?

We get a lot of calls all the time about stuff related to HOAs generally.

We do our best to answer those questions, and then if we can't answer it all the way, or if it's not something worth an advisory opinion, then we'll try and get the person to the people who can help them.

Yeah.

And I don't know, this that was an interesting question about what can or should we do as a city?

And I don't know.

I know that as a planning commissioner, we would recommend that developments have an hoa predominantly.

It was to take care of common areas, so we had we did so that disputes didn't come up regarding maintenance or things like that.

But I don't know whether we have the authority to mandate or not an HOA.

The answer to that is no.

Okay.

So I'm glad it is, right?

I'm I'm glad that that's the case.

Well, and what's the two or not?

You would like to be able to mandate that.

What's interesting about that, right?

Is that just what you said there that the goal was to try and prevent uh disputes or issues relating to the maintenance of that area.

Well, the thing is those disputes still happen, they just don't involve the city anymore.

Yeah.

So what would fall under?

What would clearly fall under things that are municipally related and you wouldn't handle them, but they still fall under us in our jurisdiction to resolve.

Let's say you have a an ordinance that deals with ADUs.

If the state did not have a law that dealt with ADUs, but Sandy did, and it was just a sandy ordinance, then we would not touch that.

Okay.

Or if or if Sandy provided uh you know, trash removal or snow removal or something like that, and there was an issue with it, or there was a contract somewhere in there, we probably wouldn't deal with that.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you.

I have a couple of questions, so I guess I'll go.

Um the uh registry search when it brings up the HOA and it shows whether or not there's a master HOA or maybe a subordinate HOA.

Do they is there some cross-referencing available now?

Not at the moment.

Part of that was that we just we didn't have anyone on the registry, so there was no way to link them programmatically.

Um, when we get into renewals in a year, then we're gonna be looking to actually tie them together.

So in the long term, yes.

In the short term, all it does is right right now is just tell you, hey, there's something else here that you need to be aware of.

Uh from the previous state registry, is there any idea how many potential HOAs have not yet registered?

Yeah, there were um around 5,000 on the old registry, and we've got about 3600 on the new registry.

So we're tracking, we're looking at both lists and looking at which HOAs have not yet registered.

And uh, I mean, I'll just a little plug for myself and my team.

I think we've done a pretty good job at getting 3,600 HOAs to register with us in nine weeks.

So, you know, we're feeling pretty good about that.

And there are a whole bunch that have come out of the woodwork that were not on the old registry either.

So we've done a lot to try and um put this out there in the media and in other ways and to sort of send notifications to that old registry to make sure they all know that they need to register, and I think that is working.

You know, it's an ongoing process, but yeah.

Okay, and that was my that was another question is you know, how is word spreading?

You know, I I heard about it from seeing a news story that got shared, and I'm you know, clicking on it, and that was um that was my knowledge of it.

And so I is that kind of the general gist of it outside of maybe some specific notices to HOAs that you're familiar with.

Yeah, and some of it's an industry thing, right?

So there are certainly groups that deal specifically with HOAs, the Association of Realtors would be one of those, uh any of the HOA managers would be one, uh, the community the community association institute would be one.

Um so there are lots of groups that sort of you know touch HOAs.

Um so what we knew that we were going to need to find a way to get to homeowners, and how do you get to every homeowner in the state of Utah to make sure they know that this office is a resource that's just a slow build, right?

Is something that you're not going to do overnight.

And so we've been using as many media tools and presentations like this and you know, association groups as we can to make sure that the people who need to know about this know that we're here, but it'll be an ongoing process.

Okay, well, I just want to say, you know, thank you for coming and presenting to us tonight.

Um I I am glad that your uh department office now exists because I do think that uh it has been a little bit of a black hole in terms of transparency, you know, or or uh the ability to resolve some of the issues that have come up without you know suing your neighbors because ultimately that's the course of action that homeowners have to deal with HOAs right now, and that's never good for anybody.

Right.

Um as far as like the education goes, I I'm glad to see here like the general board training.

Um I had seen you present this a little bit ago, and one of the thoughts that I had after that presentation was kind of exactly that, and um you know, boards are generally volunteer positions, you know, they run in an election, they're elected by their neighbors to sit in these seats, but there's no real uh qualification or education that anybody really needs to have, and then they generally you know change over every couple of years, and so being able to help them understand their role and the state laws at least, right?

That that um govern their board service on the HOAs, I think is really important.

Um, you know, I thought about it in terms of um like the uh what is it the Utah Rental Housing Association kind of does a good landlord program to help train landlords more, you know, less um large property managers, but more you know, onesie twosy kind of I have a house kind of deal to ensure that they're following the law.

So I think that's fantastic and probably could go a long way at making sure that your office is not inundated with complaints or our requests for opinion.

Um I will also say that all of our opinions are on our website, so all we published five so far, and they're all on our website.

So if you're curious about what the issues are, and we've had a lot of homeowners actually call us and say, you know, when are you when are you gonna be publishing those?

Because I want to read it before I submit an opinion request to see if you answer my question.

So that's good.

There's a lot, yeah, there's a lot out there that we're going to do in the future when we're more than nine weeks into this.

Yeah, absolutely.

And the other thing that I just wanted to say, I am really glad to have heard you say is uh including the the cost, the impact of some of our decisions, or even just HOEs in general on housing.

Uh that's something that I have been saying for a while is you know, the cost of housing.

I feel like we talk about it in a silo like it's just your mortgage, and you know, maybe property taxes, like insurance doesn't ever even come up, HOA fees don't come up, but for a large portion of the new housing that's being built, they're all being built in HOAs, the vast majority are being built in HOAs, and so there is a growing impact, and they are kind of quasi-governmental without uh with with a I I it does seem to be a little bit more difficult for people to um I don't know, get the information that they need sometimes from these entities because there's really no overarching check and balance until you know, hopefully now, and um so I I'm glad to hear that again like you exist and uh that the information that you're gathering hopefully will be helpful in the future to both HOA associate um associations.

That's a redundant anyway, we got it, and um the homeowners that live there to be able to drive legislation that may be able to uh correct some of the issues that have cropped up over the years, and you know they are so complex, and there is no one standard for how an HOA set up or operates per se or what they're responsible for.

Yeah, you know, I think from a city standpoint, one of the things that um um kind of hit me was when we're talking about common areas, because that's a large part of the reason that they exist is to cover some of those common areas the city's not covering in those private um associations is the requirement that we put on them for some of those common areas, you know, like um some of those other amenities that may come up in a discussion.

Um, not to say that that we we shouldn't have those conversations or that we shouldn't make those decisions, but just to be aware of the decisions that we make and the impacts that they may have.

That's all.

So yeah, and that's I think what I would say is my biggest point is to just follow the discussion all the way through to the homeowner.

Does anybody else have any questions for Aaron?

Okay, well, thank you so much.

I appreciate your time tonight.

Thank you all.

All right, well, we are now at 6.13, so after 6 p.m.

for public comment.

I do have some cards here in chambers.

Again, if you're interested in making public comment, uh please fill out a blue card in the back of the room.

You can bring it up here to Mr.

Fratto.

Um the speakers will have three minutes to speak.

Uh there are various viewpoints, I'm sure, on the various topics that people may be interested in speaking on, and I just want to ask that everybody be respectful and maintain civility.

We won't be applauding or booing or making any noise.

We're gonna be respectful to uh the speaker and everybody else in the room.

I will go ahead and start uh after we go get through the on, excuse me, the in-room commenters, we will go online and go from there.

So I have Sandra Hawk followed by Carl Luan.

If Sandra's oh go there, you are good evening.

I'm Sandra Hawk.

I live in Sandy at 10953, South Bay Meadow Circle.

First, I would like to thank the mayor and the candidates for City Council for running clean campaigns.

They focused on issues and their plans if they were elected.

Second, I would like to see some changes in the financial disclosures.

A, please have the easy campaign developers make it possible to sort entries by date.

B, I think the PACs should have to list their donors just as candidates do.

There is no place for dark money in Sandy.

Last, I would like some rethinking about how signs can be placed.

The sign ordinance, which prohibits placing signs on fences, is problematic for me and my husband and others and groups that I've campaigned with.

Um we're aging.

It's much harder for me to use a T post pounder now at age 77 than it was when I was 73, 71, or 70.

Also, I think that signs on stakes are not only that are less cluttered.

Sorry.

Backwards.

The sign on the stakes make it more cluttered than if the signs were attached to fences.

Because you have the stake, the fence, the sign, yada yada.

Also, I think they're less likely to blow away and cause trouble on the roadways.

Having watched a sign sail away from me.

I think that is kind of an issue.

And they're less likely to be damaged by wind or by kids playing around or deliberate sabotage by other campaigns.

What makes the use of campaign signs clean is when candidates always ask permission of property owners to place or replace signs and picking signs up promptly after the election.

In some other locations that I know, candidates who lose an election have less time to recover their signs than winners, but there is a definite date for retrieval.

Thank you for your attention to my comments.

Thank you, Kathy.

Next we have Carl Luan.

Carl did reach out previous to the meeting and was approved for five minutes.

So Dustin, if you'll add that.

I may not take all that time.

No problem.

My name is Carl Luhan.

So I can get through everything in my allotted time.

I will mostly just read what is contained in my letter.

I'll begin by saying thanks to everyone who has served in any branch of the military.

I served in the United States Army.

In three weeks, I'll be 73.

I'm a resident of Sandy City.

I lived in this I live in the Sandy City Historic District and have lived there for 10 years.

I greatly appreciate the services offered to me during the last four years of Mayor Z's administration.

I will not now direct my attention and concerns that brought me to this meeting.

I'll begin by saying we must trust our elected officials.

They act in a fiduciary role and as such must act in our best interest and accordingly cannot breach the trust we put place in them.

I will now apply these general rules to laws, general rules of law to Sydney's behavior during her campaign to be elected Sandy City Mayor.

I will show Cindy breached her fiduciary.

In my mailbox, I received approximately five letters, flyers from Sydney, basically repeating the same message.

I ask, how many times do we need to be told the same thing?

When we are told by our parents to wash our hands, we do that.

And when we, if we are asked to go to bed because we have school in the morning, we do that.

At work, we need only to be told once to do something.

Is Cindy attempting to insult our intelligence?

Cindy says Mayor Z is the million-dollar mayor.

In support thereof, Sydney says Mayor Z had the problem to the power to give herself a 47, 40,700 raise, and that adds that this brings Mayor Z's total compensation to nearly one million per term.

In the City Council budget book, page 1801 98, that section sets forth how elected officials are compensated.

This section reads, elected officials, the mayor and city council members compensation shall be adjusted annually on July 1st by an amount equivalent to the average pay increase to city employees.

Pursuant to the plain and ordinary language of this position, Mayor Z or any mayor, does not have the power to give themselves a $4,700 raise.

Thus Cindy has lied and accordingly a breach of her fiduciary to the residents of Sandy City.

What makes Cindy Cindy's lie worse is she is a member of the Sandy City Council.

How can she not know?

She knows exactly how she and other members of the Sandy City Council are compensated.

If Cindy chooses to sue me because I called her a liar, I encourage her to sue me.

If she is not aware, I suggest she speak to an attorney.

Truth is a defense, and because truth is a defense, I have the right to call her a liar, as anyone can.

This protected speech guaranteed to us by and through the First Amendment to our Constitution.

Would she be attempting to suppress my free speech?

I encourage Cindy to sue me.

Through discovery, I will find out how each and every dollar received and how it was spent.

I will obtain these documents by requesting them through production of documents and have a CPA sift through all financial records.

So Cindy does not get caught in another lie about the author of my letter.

I will disclose who wrote my letter.

In May of next year, it will be 30 years since I graduated from the University of the Utah College of Law.

I also clerked for a federal judge.

As such, I know legal theories and have to allege and defend these legal theories, especially constitutional issues which federal judges hear regularly.

Back to Cindy.

She shows the receipt box and claims Mayor Z has all the ingredients to turn quiet Sandy into another Salt Lake City.

She does not say what is wrong with Sandy, Salt Lake City.

Salt Lake City is where the Utah Jazz play home games, where the Utah Mammoth play home games, where other events occur, such as the recent Adam Sandler performance.

If these were held in Sandy, they would surely generate a large sum of revenue, which Sandy City can add to our services.

To show Mayor Z would have turned Sandy into another Salt Lake City, Cindy has again failed to meet her burden of proof.

Sydney also alleges Mayor Z is a receipt for disaster recipe for disaster.

What dead what disasters are Cindy referring to when she says Mayor Z is a receipt recipe for disaster.

This is just another example of Cindy not satisfying her burden of proof.

Simply, Cindy was simply spreading disinformation or misinformation.

Mr.

Luan, we have come to the end of the five minutes and to be equitable to everybody.

Okay.

You are you are okay to email your comments to us if you would like.

That's fine.

I didn't know I got over.

No, thank you.

Next on the up to the podium is Drew Howells, followed by Don Sidwell.

Drew?

Okay.

Sorry, a little so on in.

Thank you very much.

Um, first I want to take this moment to thank each member of this council, the mayor, um, and your staff for your service to our community.

As a veteran, I understand what service means.

Um, putting the needs of others before your own, showing up and doing the hard work that often goes unseen.

I truly appreciate what you all do for our city and for the people for uh all the people who call Sandy home.

Now, I'll be honest, on Veterans Day, I could be at Golden Corral getting my free meal right now.

Um, but instead I felt it was important to come down here and show my face because what we just witnessed during these elections cannot go unspoken.

This last campaign wasn't just negative, it was corrosive.

It was fueled by dark shadow money from anonymous packs hiding behind patriotic names designed to mislead voters.

We saw Facebook groups pop up overnight, given the appearance of grassroots efforts, but turns out it's all run by one man who was working for the Sharke campaign.

These weren't neighbors having honest discussions, these were coordinated political operations meant to manipulate our community.

And beyond that, there's even video evidence circulating that appears to show a certain council member and another person in a truck removing campaign signs.

That's not just unethical, that's unlawful.

When that kind of behavior is tolerated or excused, it erodes public trust that holds our city together.

So I'm asking the city council to take a serious look at our campaign finance disclosure rules and our clean campaign commitments.

We need stronger transparency so that voters know who are funding these campaigns well before the election.

People have a right to know who's paying for these mailers, these attack ads, and the online disinformation.

Transparency isn't partisan, it's called accountability.

I also want to know what the city intends to do about these violations and the sign thefts.

If anybody wants the video, I'd be happy to provide it.

These actions don't just cross ethical lines, they break them entirely.

Councilmember Sharke, you pledged to run a clean campaign, yet you stood by way.

All of your supporters and affiliated PACs launched one of the most dishonest and toxic campaigns this city has ever seen.

And I also grew up in California.

I've seen toxic campaigns.

I personally think you should step down because leadership isn't about winning at all costs.

It's about setting a standard for others to follow.

And what we saw was a failure of leadership on the part of the councilwoman.

Sandy deserves transparency, accountability, and decency for all those who represent us.

And I hope this council has a curse to make sure what happened this year never happens again.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Next we have Don Sigwell.

Well, I'm only gonna echo what the other two have had to say, and I'll put it in my words.

I was extremely disappointed of the conduct of the candidates on a certain mayor's race.

First time in 23 years of me living in Sandy, I have never ever seen a campaign that was like this with smear tactics from whomever, as the others have stated.

Residents, Sandy, residents for Sandy Future was a barrage of repetition, anti-Monica.

I got so sick and tired of seeing their posts over and over and over again with the same crap.

Sometimes I would challenge them, and when I challenge their posts, they wouldn't answer me.

They'd say, go see Monica about it.

I said, You're the one who's claiming that she's done this.

So whoever this residents for Sandy Future is, I would love to know.

I'm assuming they're part of your organization to get you elected.

Okay.

The next thing I'll address with Cindy.

I was really surprised after all you made about the ethics pledge, criticizing your opponent for not signing it, and to see the video, which the gentleman just spoke about, which you should say because it's put to music and it's really pretty entertaining.

Um while you and Chris McCannless tearing down Monica's signs.

I see you shaking your head, you're saying it's not you.

Okay.

We're gonna we're gonna maintain decorum here.

Go ahead and finish your comment.

Okay.

So what I am saying, if it wasn't you with 5,000 views, why did you not say anything or respond?

If I had been me and somebody had posted that about me, I sure and it wasn't true, I sure would have gotten up and said something.

So I want to thank all the candidates who did a wonderful job of campaigning, no smears, just pointed out what they were gonna do when they ran.

So thank you for doing a decent job running for office.

And Zach, I'm still mad at you for leaving office.

Okay.

Next we have Donna Bryant, followed by Wendy Davis.

Hi.

First of all, I'd like to compliment Sandy City for posting the um groundbreaking experience at the recenter.

They've posted beautiful pictures.

Can you speak into the microphone a little more?

I'm sorry.

That's okay, thinking.

I like things Sandy City is their social media for their post of the groundbreaking at the Alch Center.

I had a lot of great pictures, and I love my favorite one was with everyone's there digging the shovel in, the mill, you know, Miller family, probably the guy who made drawings and the one who's gonna build it, but my favorite is showed all Sandy City Mayor and Council people together.

I really appreciate that.

Now that the elections are over, I would like really see unity.

No more fighting, no more arguing.

It's over.

I want, and I know Sandy citizens want people to work together, not argue, not fight.

And they would really like everyone in this room to work together.

So I'm asking council members and the mayor.

Will you work together as opposed to part?

And I would like to have it verbally acknowledged, yes or no.

So it could be put on record if you all are willing to work together.

That's what I would like.

Okay, just to be clear, this public comment time is a one-way discussion from you to us, and so we aren't in the we aren't going to be able to respond to that in this moment.

But if you'd like to reach out to us privately or in another fashion, then we can go there.

But privately, how can I prove that you said yes?

I'm just maintaining the rules of our council to make sure that it that it runs.

Thank you.

Thank you, Donna.

I have Wendy Davis who's coming up.

I have another card for Drew Howells.

Was that a sincere HOA birth lab?

Okay.

Um so after Wendy, we'll go to Kathy Spuck.

Great.

Thank you.

Hi everyone, I'm Dr.

Wendy Davis.

I want to first say happy Veterans Day, and thank you to anyone in the room who has served our country.

My father was a Vietnam War veteran, and I am honored to be his daughter.

I also would like to comment on the recent municipal elections.

A lot has been said tonight.

I've lived in Utah for 30 years, and I've lived in Sandy for 20 years.

I am proud to be a Sandy resident.

I am proud of the community we are building.

I hold our city as a jewel in this county.

We're growing economic development and elevating the profile of our city.

But some things that happened in our municipal elections were antithetical to who we are as Sandy.

Divisive messages, tactics divided our community, and we deserve better.

Utah's value fairness and transparency has been said tonight.

And I would like to ask you to reevaluate the key tenets of our election code, the legal aspects, and also if there is not one, create an ethical code of conduct.

Timely, accurate disclosures of all campaign donations as critical.

Citizens deserve to know who is paying for candidate efforts and what personal private and business interests are being advanced.

Excessive funds from PACs and special interests have no place in our municipal elections, no place.

When campaign behavior crosses the line from being pedantic and dirty politics, we should hold those accountable who break laws.

I'm deeply deeply disappointed in what happened in the final weeks of the campaign.

We deserve fair elections with adults who behave as such.

There are natural consequences.

But that is not the only accountability mechanism.

We are Sandy, we are better than how some candidates behaved.

Some activities equated political violence and made it unsafe for other candidates to be out in public.

Trust was violated.

We deserve a unified council.

We deserve a unified council who is focused on supporting our mayor.

The last days of the election, I had a sign on my back porch on my private property that was fenced in and fully gated.

Someone came into my yard in the middle of the night.

It was a sign in support of our mayor and cut through zip ties and left that sign in my yard.

It was not an accident.

It was not the wind blowing.

It happened.

Our police have much better things to worry about than silly signs, sign wars, signs that are desecrated, signs that are disrespectfully treated, signs that are violated and coming onto people's personal property.

It needs to stop, it needs to stop now.

Thank you for your service.

I appreciate all of you.

Thank you.

Kathy Spuck, followed by Paul Gadot.

I just had one quick comment as somebody who's lived in an HOA now for 33 years and basically ran it for the last 15.

I don't know a whole lot of people that are in love with HOAs, but I just wanted you as a council to be aware that almost every new development is going to have to have one, and it's because of a federal law requiring a detention pond.

So there has to be at the very least a detention pond.

And I could be wrong.

Those of you who do housing may know better, but that's what I was told is that almost every new development, unless it's filling, is gonna have to have an HOA if for nothing else than to arrange for the maintenance on that detention pond, and that has been a major headache in my house hunting because it's like I'd really love something now that wasn't in an HOA.

Um, my second comment was there's been plenty of comment about the election, and I know there's a voluntary pledge, but I would love to see some actual legislation that would ban signs until like 45 days before the primary.

Um I don't have a marketing degree, but I do know that once the sign's been up for a while, it just doesn't register in people's brains anymore.

It's like it's been there so long, you just don't really see it anymore.

So I would love to see just that limited because it's been a long time that we've been looking at signs this year.

Thanks so much.

Thank you.

We have Paul followed by Holly Devries.

Is there a poll?

Um, okay, thank you.

Nope, you're good.

Okay.

Um there's no question that political speech is protected, without a doubt.

If somebody wants to yell fire in a crowded theater and there's no fire, there are consequences, and that's what we're talking about tonight.

The consequences, in my opinion, a candidate's responsibility for office is to educate the voter, or they can obfuscate the facts and deceive the electorate.

If the former the common good is served, if the latter, the candidate shows contempt for the voter and preys on their ignorance or lack of time to research the issues.

This candidate's campaign reflects on all city council members.

The disinformation promulgated by this candidate implied that she knew nothing about a mayoral pay raise or budget line tax increases, or zoning.

These issues are required by law to be addressed by the city council with an up or down vote.

By taking that position, that reflects on each member of this city council.

By attempting to add uh abdicate any responsibility or official involvement, candidate directly involved every member of the council.

And silence is consent.

Silence is consent.

Does the council want to be labeled as knowing nothing about the issues raised or having any official involvement?

Because the issues raised reflect on your responsibility as legislators.

Nobody gets a free pass here.

So help me out.

How do you officially say to Sandy?

Are you willing to educate the voter and sanction the candidate?

Or are you willing to call for her immediate resignation?

Thank you, Mr.

Godot.

Thank you.

We have Holly Debres followed by Judan Grasiev.

I'm Holly DeVries.

I live at 8756 South Alticove Drive in Sandy, and I love Sandy.

And thank you, each one of you for your service.

I really do appreciate it.

I love Sandy.

And thanks to all the veterans.

My grandfather was in World War I, my dad, Korea, and my cousin was in Vietnam.

And most of the boys I knew in high school were drafted, and some didn't come home.

So thank you for your service, veterans.

I want to thank Mayor Zee for a clean campaign, who talked about what she hopes to do with the city council.

Very transparent, very clear, very hopeful, and I thank you.

Sydney Sharkey, this is going to be stirred.

I looked up in my old Webster dictionary from college.

And it says a lie is a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive.

You'd know exactly that she can't raise taxes or give herself a raise or increase density out of somebody else's area, later on.

Those are lies.

And I agree with the gentleman before me, a reflects on each one of you.

Because silence is complicity.

You made it easy for me to vote, Miss Sharkey.

Push me so far away from you.

And there was no talk about what you hope to do in a positive way for Sandy and its people.

I feel the only correct thing to do is for you to resign.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next we have Jude and Gracia.

I have some example papers.

Can I read it to you?

Or you can hand it to Dustin right there.

Thank you.

Hello.

Over the past six months.

Oh, my name, Jude and Gracia.

Hi.

Over the past six months, Councilman member Cindy Sharkey has subjected Sandy citizens to the most negative campaign in recent memory.

There's enough divisiveness on the national level.

But Ms.

Sharkey has injected that mean-spiritedness, mud slinging, and division into our own community, as well as partisanship in a non-partisan race.

Supporting her, but she had the power to tell them to stop at any time.

Instead, she was silent and complicit.

On September 8th, Ms.

Sharkey attended a meeting in the home of the founder of the PAC, Residents for Sandy's Future, where they invited only people from their political party to strategize about how to turn around the results from the primaries.

Expressed disbelief that fellow Republicans had voted, had dared to vote for someone outside of their party in the primaries.

Must I remind Miss Sharkey that the position she was running for is a non-partisan role.

On October 10th, the PAC residents for Sandy's Future printed giant red hat signs and illegally placed them all over Seagullilly and 1300 East, many of them without permission of the property owner, and many of them placed in front of the mayor's own signs.

We residents had to drive by this over and over again.

Why didn't Miss Sharkey tell the PAC supporting her to stop with the dishonest and distasteful signs littering our city?

There's photos of Miss Sharkey and the head of the PAC, residents for Sandy's future, all over Facebook.

You're friends with him, you've been to his house.

You could have told him to stop.

Again, very disrespectful.

So I'd like to ask the council for two things.

Censure Ms.

Sharky for subjecting every household to mudslinging and misrepresentations.

The behavior we saw was not fitting of a council member and so so-called representative of our city.

And two, there should be campaign contribution limits, particularly since Ms.

Sharkey received about 50,000 from PACs, and that money went to the negativity that we saw.

If there were campaign limits, perhaps we'd only have seen one nasty flyer instead of one each day.

Lastly, I'd like to thank Mayor Tom Dolan for speaking out against the negativity and dishonesty that he saw in Ms.

Sharkey's campaign.

That is the last card that I have in chambers.

If you'll go ahead and address our online audience, Mr.

Fradto.

Of course, thank you, Madam Chair.

If you're joining us virtually this evening via Zoom and you'd like to comment on any city business, uh, go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen now.

I'll call your name in the order in which you raised your hand, and you'll have three minutes to speak.

Madam Chair, first up is Laurie Wilson.

Laurie, I'm gonna allow you to begin speaking.

Please remember to unmute yourself, and you'll have three minutes.

Am I unmuted now?

Yes, we can hear you, so go ahead and you'll have three minutes.

Okay, I think it's ludicrous that we're even having this discussion.

The council needs to pass a resolution that these kinds of tactics are not acceptable in our city, and that all campaign contributions need to be fully disclosed.

We as voters have a right to know who supports a candidate so that we can make an informed decision if that candidate indeed represents our personal interests.

To not do so is absolutely ridiculous and antithetical to fair campaigning and fair um governance, and it's the council's responsibility to make sure that this happens.

Thank you.

Okay, madam chair.

Up next is Taylor Burrhau.

Taylor, I'm gonna allow you to begin speaking.

Please remember to unmute yourself, and you'll have three minutes.

Hi, I'll just keep my um comment short.

I I too um am joining just um similarly to comment on, I think just the frustration that I felt as a young voter and lifelong resident of Sandy in the negative campaigning that I experienced.

Um just a brief example.

Um my husband is probably one of the least fired up, like least political people that I know, and the consistent and regular ads that we received, um, unsolicited ads that we received from Ms.

Sharkey's campaign, have gotten him very involved in politics.

And um, we attended, you know, the League of Women Voters Debate.

He was the individual who asked everyone to say something nice about their opposing candidate.

Um, some people answered that question, some uh didn't.

And um, and so I I think an unexpected uh you know result of that negative campaigning is how involved it got somebody like my husband who was immensely frustrated and really disappointed.

Um our household generally was really disappointed by this, and um yeah, thanks so much.

Just one last call if you're online and you'd like to comment, go ahead and click the raise hand button now.

Madam Chair, I don't see any other hands raised.

All right, thank you, Mr.

Fratto.

We'll go ahead and close the public comment portion of the meeting tonight and bring it back to the agenda.

At this time, we are at item number three, which is the community development department presenting the Creek Road rezone application requesting that 1.5 acres be rezoned from the R140 zone to the R115A zone.

Jake Warner, the long range planning manager will be presenting this item.

So, Jake, I'll go ahead and turn it over to you now.

Thank you, madam chair.

Good to be with you.

Council community development department has received a rezone application from Joe Goot requesting that his property be rezoned from the R140 zone to the R115A zone.

The R140 zone or the R140 zone is a single family residential zone that requires a minimum of 40,000 square feet as a lot size, and the R115 zone is uh the R115A zone is a single family residential zone that requires a 15,000 square foot minimum lot size, but also with uh farm animal rights.

And the R115 zone is a the R115A zone is a single family residential zone that requires a 15,000 square foot minimum lot size, but also with uh farm animal rights.

The subject property is located at 2140 East Creek Road.

It's approximately 1.5 acres.

It was annexed into the city in uh 2020.

Uh prior to annexing into the city, it was split zoned.

It was zoned A2 and R115.

Um at the time that it was annexed, it was determined that the R 140 zone most closely aligned with the current use of the property and size of the property, and at that time it was given the R140 zone.

The surrounding properties are zoned R115 to the east, R115 to the north, which is in Cottonwood Heights.

Um R 120 to the south, and to the west is R140.

The applicant, as far as staff is aware, does not have intentions to further develop or subdivide the property at this time.

Um there are some accessory structures on the property that uh it is staff's understanding that that's the purpose of the rezone to bring those into compliance.

The uh proposed rezone would provide uh the applicant as the property owner a pathway to do so.

This item was presented in a neighborhood meeting on September 9th, and a public hearing was held with the planning commission on October 16th.

The planning commission by a vote of 5 to 2 forwarded a positive recommendation to the city council as a legislative item.

The planning commission holds the public hearing and makes recommendation, and the city council is the final decision maker.

So it has been presented to you tonight as an informational item and is scheduled to be brought back to you for decision on November 18th.

With that, um both staff and the applicant are present and available for questions.

Thank you.

Would the applicant like to speak on behalf of his item before we go into council questions?

You don't have to, but you're granted an opportunity if you'd like.

I'll keep it quite short.

Uh the property I've lived there 30 some years now.

And when I was annexed in, I didn't recall any zoning being changed.

Uh some of the residents up the street from me, they have horses and goats and things of that nature.

And it's actually really charming.

I don't have any, and I don't really intend to turn it into a farm.

I'm really trying to bring the property into compliance because I've met with the city uh zoning or the building department, and uh you know, I probably have more the way it's zoned right now.

I'm probably not in compliance.

So this is more of a compliance issue than it is my need to become a farmer or to turn it into a you know, although I do like that option.

And um, and like I say, my uh neighbors to this uh some of them I think have the A, the ones to the east, and uh I just kind of want to return to what it originally was before it was annexed.

That's all short.

Thank you so much.

Council, are there any questions for our staff or for the applicant?

Council member De Kaiser.

Thank you, madam chair.

So this one was confusing to me.

I watched the planning commission meeting.

I don't like the issue is with the structures, right?

There's two there's too many structures.

So there was the ADU that has a long history of being rented out, and then there's the two structures on the north side.

But my understanding is that there's additional structures that have been built since being annexed in Sandy that are now not compliant with the zone.

It gets complicated quick.

On its face, it is a rezone application, and so that's how I've tried to present it, but indicating that there are these other issues involved.

Um Mr.

Goot was annexed into the city, he had an application with the county for two um two structures on the front of the property.

Those were not existing when he was annexed, but there he did have an application that was approved.

Uh it was a it was a site plan application that was approved by the county with the annexation.

The community development department honored that approval by the county.

Um Sandy City issued the building permits for those, and those two structures were built.

So in addition to that, um Mr.

Goop had a detached ADU on the property at the time he was annexed into the city.

And so those structures, the community development department has honored those as let's say grandfathered.

Since the property was uh annexed, the um one of the accessory structures is has been enlarged.

Um there's been a shed built, and I think one other small accessory structure that has been built without approval from the city.

Mr.

Goot was notified of the non-compliance and and uh approach the city about what might be done to bring those into compliance.

It just seems odd, and I mean no offense, but to have a non-compliant parcel for whatever reasons that they've done so, for us to just change the zoning to make them compliant.

Um, you know, like if someone's got a bunch of cars on their front lawn uh and they're like, ah, I've got this problem, change my zoning to rectify it.

That just seems crazy to me, especially since, as the applicant stated, there is zero intention to have the animals that are allotted with the zoning.

Um so maybe this will be further conversation we can have behind the scenes conversations.

I can talk to you guys and whatever, but this this just seems like a really odd way to rectify the situation.

Um yeah, I'll leave it at that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilmember Sharkey.

Thank you, madam chair.

You know, I have the same comment and a couple of questions surrounding it.

So yes, this I too watched the planning commission meeting.

It was really gave some more depth to this whole to the understanding of this whole application.

Um the A designation, my takeaway was that the A designation is not being requested for the use of animals on the property, but for accessory structures.

So I guess my first question would be would it allow for even more accessory structures in terms of quantity and size that exist in a non-compliant way right now?

So in other words, would this open the door to making a bad situation even worse?

Could he build more accessory structures or larger ones if granted this rezone the um the current structures that bring those into into compliance would take quite a bit of work by the applicant?

It is unlikely that the city would approve anything in addition to what he currently has.

For so the A designation currently under the zoning has um without the A designation, the city limits uh the number of accessory structures to two.

The A designation makes that unlimited.

However, there is a limit on the total square footage of accessory structures that he can have.

The A designation would give him the right to request a CUP to request additional square footage.

I believe it's 50% more, up to 50% more square footage.

That may he may have more than that already in total square footage.

So one of the steps in the pathway to compliance, so this would be the first, but one of those steps is he may need to attach um one of the ADUs to his home.

He would may he would need a conditional use permit.

Um there's one other thing I'm forgetting.

The rezone, a conditional use permit, some additional construction to attach one of those uh existing accessory structures.

Um there are he approached staff about how how could I bring this into compliance?

And there's some moving pieces here, but we came up with a pathway he asked and we answered.

Um so this is the first step of that.

The first step.

So this alone doesn't resolve the issue.

This alone does not.

Um there's a letter here to you from him indicating that he's writing this letter to request an amendment to his general development application.

Is there a development application?

That's the uh that's the standard form that we use for all land use applications that come through the community development department.

So that that would that would cover anything from a site plan to a conditional use to an annexation.

That's the title of the form that we use for all applications that come through our department.

There are no other applications currently with the community development department.

So I remember when this was originally annexed in and it had the one existing um accessory dwelling unit, and then the two that had been permitted by the county, and the agreement was that since it had been permitted by the county, that the city would honor that even if it wasn't necessarily compliant with our rules or laws.

Um the current status, and then there's been more work since then not permitted or approved by us.

What is the current status then?

Is he he's not in legal non-conforming status, is he?

Is he in comp non-conforming statements?

It depends on which structures you're talking about.

Some of the structures we do consider legal non-conforming, but there are now additional structures that are just non-conforming.

Thank you.

Any other council member?

So let me ask you for a moment.

If I guess what happens if this application or this request fails, he'll be required to bring his property into compliance.

One layer another.

Is there an opportunity to potentially I I it's hard for me to see the structures?

I didn't pull it up on Google earth or maps, you know, with the red lines, but is there a possibility to subdivide to to bring it into compliance a different way as opposed to breaking it all into one?

That's exactly what his neighbor to the east did.

They rezoned to the R115 and subdivide.

So the street immediately adjacent to his east.

The Rosette or Yeah, Rossett Green, I believe is what it is so.

But I guess my question is is that an option here with the way that the structures are built where they're located.

I believe that his property was at one time intended to be part of that subdivision, which is why it was split zoned.

There was a rear piece of his property that was zoned R115.

That I my understanding is that at one point a developer considered including that in the development of the Rossett Green homes.

Um that's a that's a good question.

The issue with the subdivision is though you do have these um the additional sheds and the sheds spread out, kind of.

And so even if you subdivided and you could make them fit on one of those 15,000 square feet, they couldn't be a single structure there without a home built with them.

So that would be fairly difficult to do with existing structures already built.

Okay.

You would have to have a home with that structure to even if it was going to work because you can't have a structure on a you know an individual subdivided lot alone.

Which which structure was increased in size the existing um detached ADU.

I guess that's where I'm wondering is is that an option for subdividing where that's its own separate single family residence?

The proximity to the house would not be it would not be feasible because of the proximity of the house and the location of that to the house and in a side yard and um I don't think it lends itself to being subdivided based off of setbacks and stuff that would be required with the subdivision.

You would almost have to subdivide first and then build second.

Sure.

Otherwise, if you do it the other way, it's just so many setbacks and compensation.

I figured that was the case, but I wanted to ask, you know.

Um I guess my other question is the access to the accessory units.

How are the how are they accessed presently?

Are they from the main driveway from the main house or are they off of Rossett?

There's one access into the property from Creek Road.

Okay.

There's no other access or ingress or egress.

No.

Um I think I've asked all the questions that I can think of.

Um we're gonna go to council member Robinson.

Um, the property owner has something that he'd like to add.

So I don't know if you want to hear from him first or ask.

Uh I'll just it's a very quick question, and I may have missed it, and apologies if I did.

Why the animal designation on this um the animal designation allows a property to have more than two accessory structures?

Our our typical, our standard single family residential zoning restricts except accessory structures on a property to two.

The A designation not only does it allow farm animals, but it brings with it a set of regulations, and one of those is an increase in the number of accessory structures allowed on a property.

So it was the solution to bring the property into compliance.

Is that the way to say it?

Part of the solution.

The originally he had requested the R140A zone, going from R 140 to R140A.

We discovered that that would not resolve all of the issues.

There's some setback issues that would still be non-compliant with an R 140 zoning on the property.

Was there any other solutions that were brainstormed for this problem?

We spent a lot of brain energy on this, and and then we had a hard time getting to the solution we did, but we we discovered a pathway and laid it out for him by which he could bring this into compliance.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

I I actually had one more question and I remembered what it was.

So on the opposite side, if if this were to pass, I I think I heard you say that there would still that it's still not compliant.

Um and I don't know if it's because the structure was added on to because there's an external well no, because anyway, what is multiple non-compliance issues, and so we would have to deal with those.

Um but how how would you how how ultimately would this property be brought into compliance if this were a component of it?

What's what follows?

I forgot the other component of the pathway, which is a building permit.

He would obviously need a submit for a building permit um for the new construction that was completed without approval.

But um he um I mean I there may be multiple approaches, but he may need to tear down some of the structures.

Um if he attached the structures to the home, he there may be that may be part of compliance with one of the structures.

Um but it's likely that he would have to um tear down some of those structures.

Okay, thank you.

Are there any other questions?

Councilmember Stroud.

We have a home, we have an ADU, and we have additional structures.

What are those additional structures?

So the two that the county uh uh approved are basically guest houses.

He um signed an agreement that they would not be used as rentals.

Um there were some comments made um by uh neighbors that that has been used that way.

Um our department now has additional tools by which we can track that kind of thing.

Um he has committed that um uh actually I believe Mr.

Goot said yes, his son had um rented out some of those structures, but he um he says they have not been recently, so he's aware that those two structures in the front are not to be used for any type of rental.

Um he had the existing ADU and then I believe there's a free standing sauna and a shed.

And then yeah, the addition of the AD, the addition of the ADU and the shed are the two that I'm aware of that were not approved.

I I'm not sure if the freestanding sauna was um on the property at the time it was annexed.

So I'd have to get back to you on that one.

So four residential units.

Well house, the ADU that was there, and then the two that were added.

When you say front, I'm going to assume that's like closer to close to the street than the house, yep.

So four different housing units on this lot.

I don't um I'm not sure if the two uh guest houses in the front have full um components of uh a dwelling unit.

I don't I don't know if there's a full kitchen or you know exactly what's in those those units.

He is committed that those would be used for visiting family and friends.

Okay, and then the shed and sauna.

I mean, I would assume that something that even resembles a housing unit, whether it's fully functional or not, is pretty permanent.

Um the shed and sauna.

Right.

I guess I'm just looking to see if there's other options.

Um I mean, the the A for agriculture to try to get this into compliance.

And I'm sure you've done you guys have probably gone through all of these different paths of um trying to figure out what we can do.

It's just seems we're in a an unusual situation here.

So I guess I'm just trying to think aloud, but thank you for clarifying what is currently on the lots.

Thanks.

Thank you, Councilmember Stroud, Councilmember DeKaiser.

I just had one more question as I think about this over the next week.

As a planner, um, how do you rectify the tension in the staff report conclusion with the consistencies that this has with the general plan versus the inconsistencies that it has with the future land use map?

That was an issue.

Um we were I hate to say this, we were surprised to see the designation on the future land use map.

Um we were surprised that it showed something different than what is currently there, which is residential.

So the future land use map is a tool for you as decision makers.

Um but for transparency, I put it in there and and um so you know what it is.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I have I have one more question.

Does the property owner um reside at that residence?

That's a good question for him.

Um he has multiple homes.

Um there have been comments, accusations that he's that it's not his primary dwelling.

Um I think he stated that he is there most of the year, but um it may be good to get his response to that if he's if he's gonna be invited back up to the yeah, he had had his hand up too.

So if you'd like to come back up and make comments, that would be great.

You may do that.

Thank you all.

I um like I mentioned, I've I lived there before the land of the EastMe was developed.

Uh I was Milt Eldridge, who I bought it from.

Sorry, is that better?

Okay, Milt Eldridge uh was the property owner, and I bought it from him.

And when I bought it, I believe it was zoned uh A.

It was uh in the county, the county.

And I negotiated with Sandy wanted to annex me in on, and it was on the condition the county gave me these two pads out front in addition to what a typical lot would have.

If you added up the square footage of the five homes that were put on the same property that I own, a little over an acre and a half, you know, I'm far below what those five homes were subdivided into.

I use this residence, it is my primary residence completely.

Whoever would make uh a comment that it's not there completely wrong.

I I do go to California often in the winter time for a few months, but you know, I'm a resident, everything has been I've been a resident of Sandy for now like I'd say 30 some years.

The ADU in the back was built originally for my father to live in.

He was alive at the time while I was building the house he passed, so it it just sat.

And um I have a fairly large family, my wife's from India.

She has a lot of family that comes to visit, and so often there could be I don't know, quite a quite a few of us living there recently.

I know this sounds crazy, but I have two children.

I enjoy having them live on the property.

Uh I'm I'm kind of unusual, I guess, in that regard, but my kids are now 38 and 40 and with grandkids, and we're just one big, you know, content.

And so the reason I've built these extra units primarily was for I don't know if you can appreciate this to have my kids live inside the house, the main house can be difficult.

You know, we eat at different times and messes and things like that.

So everybody has their own autonomous space on plenty of ground, and now we have the addition of a couple of grandkids.

And so it's really a family compound.

Now there was never any restrictions about renting the back unit if I if I want to.

That's not for short term.

I'm talking about, I'm talking long term.

So nothing would ever be rented short term.

And like I say, I'm I'm I'm asking primarily to come to compliance by well.

I'm taking the advice of the staff, they've been wonderful to work with, and they're just advised me on the best way to do this.

I'm open to any other suggestions too, subdividing whatever.

I'm open to all these things.

If you can picture along with me, you have the main house, and in the backyard off to the side sits the ADU.

And to bring this into compliance, I'm I've been thinking I'm willing to add uh even a bigger addition to the ADU to attach the roof line to the main house.

Therefore, I lose one ADU or one additional structure, right?

Because it becomes the main house at that point.

So it's no longer a free-standing house.

And uh, and that would solve that, and it would solve the square footage issues.

But I would uh speak with Brian and Jake to guide me on these suggestions.

But I just want if that's what it takes, uh it would cost quite a lot, and it would be a sizable addition, probably a couple thousand square feet.

But I'm if that's what it takes, that will eliminate the issue of uh square footage, I believe.

Would it help with that?

Part of the issue, and uh and it would eliminate some of the structures.

The other two structures, the last more recent ones was the addition of a tough shed.

That's what it is.

It's got no power, no electrical, no plumbing.

It's a tough shed that you buy at Home Depot in the parking lot.

And you can drive my neighborhood, every house has one almost every other house.

I just use it to put my tools and uh put things so they don't get snowed on and rained on in there.

It's not serving as any kind of uh anything to live in.

It's just a 20 20 by 15, I think, uh tough shed.

The other structure is about just a little taller than this, about double this height.

It's the sauna, it's actually a freestanding sauna, like a Peloton bike.

But all I did was I didn't want the sauna to get rained on either.

So I put the same siding that's on the house out front on the on the sauna to make the place look nice.

You know, the the as I call it like a compound, it's first class.

There's nothing dragging the neighborhood down about this uh property.

It's uh it's a everything about it's real nice.

I can drive you up and down the street where fences are falling down, wooden fences and so on.

I don't want to rage on about people that are non-compliant, but this property is very nice, and that I'm just protecting the sauna and making it look nice at the same time.

So I don't know what more I can do.

Uh but things get technical and things have to rules have to be abided by, and I understand that.

So whatever I can do to solve these issues, you know, uh suggest it to me, and uh, I'm pretty open to anything.

Well, thank you very much for your willingness to be here tonight and to converse with us and share more information.

We appreciate that.

Um, are there any other questions for the applicant or um our staff on this item?

Okay, well, seeing none, then we will um you guys will bring it back in a future meeting next week next week.

Okay, thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

Uh that takes us to item four.

But before you come down, Brian, let me just ask Florence.

I know they so we've got one item and then the consent calendar and then your item.

Are you okay to wait or would you like to be created?

Just do this quick.

Okay, if everybody's okay with with moving the items around, okay.

Go ahead and come up.

So we're gonna move to item, it's a public hearing item number seven, the South Salt Lake Valley Mosquito Abatement District reporting its intent to increase its property tax rate.

We have Florence Reynolds, who is our Sandy board representative, and I'm assuming that you were Mr.

Dan McBride, who is the district manager.

Florence is going to be presenting this, and I'll go.

I'm gonna have Dan present okay because he's the expert.

Um isn't necessarily uh our public hearing is actually December 8th.

This is just informational presentation to the board.

I'm gonna try to adjust these right off the bat so I don't get uh talk to about getting these correct.

Uh, madam chair, Sandy Council.

Thank you so much for coming.

Um, and allowing me to come as well.

I I am I'm very appreciative of having trustee Florence Reynolds here.

Um she serves Sandy very well on our board.

She has a lot of experience and a lot of not only municipality experience but experience with water and a lot of just general knowledge that is very helpful in everything that we do.

Um for the sake of being compliant to Utah code.

I actually am going to read this and then I will open up to any questions that the council does have.

Um as you well know, the tax commission is being quite strict on many things this year, and so we want to make sure that we're doing this by the book as much as possible.

Um, just as a brief introduction, the South Salt Lake Valley Mosquito Abatement District is a governmental entity.

We are a special district that operates within Sandy and within 20 other municipalities all throughout the valley.

Um we have been operating since 1952.

We've been around for quite a long time.

We are a small specialized agency.

We only have five full-time people and hire roughly about 30 seasonal employees every single year.

Um, and our entire bread and butter is the um control and monitoring of mosquito and mosquito born diseases.

Um we're dealing with the West Nile virus, we're dealing with St.

Louis Encephalitis, we're dealing with any incoming diseases that you know are are kind of happening around the borders.

Um we are governed by a board of 20 elected and appointed officials from each of the municipalities.

We have a fairly large governing body, our are probably actually one of the bigger ones for us, small as a uh organization that we are.

And the reason for my visit today is actually in Utah code, it's Utah Code 17B3.

It stipulates that it's an entity working within city boundaries.

A notice must be given if a special district intends to propose a tax increase to the municipality's legislative bodies, um, the city council in this case.

Um we uh also tried to kind of coincide this report with the arrival of tax notices for all of the citizens within Sandy and within all the other municipalities that we serve, and so hopefully everybody has received their notice from of it from us.

It came with the Treasury notice.

Um the proposed increase itself amounts to $320,000.

Um it would bring the district's total property tax revenue to 1.42 million dollars for the 2026 calendar year.

What that actually looks like in context for what a person pays every single year is about a 77 cents increase for a $600,000 home.

Um I I end um about a dollar forty for a comparable business property per year.

That is the average that the state gives us to work with.

Um I do know that certain municipalities have a higher than normal average.

I did look up Sandy's and Sandy's.

Um the average cost for a year for a Sandy citizen would be about a dollar and three cents.

Um just what we're actually going to be using it for.

Uh the additional increase would allow for cost stabilization of services.

Um we were able to build a nice reserve that we've been using for about the past 10 years, and kind of just like everybody else, unfortunately, inflation kind of caught up with us.

Um, operational enhancement enhancements.

Some of the things that we would like to do is we want to be a little bit more ecologically and environmentally sound.

Um right now, operationally, um, the way that we do it is we have boots on the ground, and for wetland areas, especially wetland areas, for example, around the uh new grandpa's pond area.

We want to make sure that we're kind of doing things that are environmentally and ecologically sound so that we can have kind of natural order kind of re-establish, because uh natural order re-establishing is actually a very positive thing for mosquito control, and then capital budget.

Um we have an aging building, and just like everybody else with aging buildings, we have to start thinking about the future capital projects that are gonna be required in us upkeeping that building.

Um the public hearing itself, as uh Florence was talking about, will be held December 8th at 6 p.m.

It is at the district offices, and we do have a virtual link.

The virtual link should be available to all citizens on the actual tax notice that they received from us.

And I am I am open for any questions that the council may have.

Um council, are there any questions, comments, or sentiment that you'd like to express on this item?

Councilmember Meekham.

Take my dollar and kill those little buggers.

Thank you.

Any anybody else?

Okay.

Um I don't have anything else, so we do have to take public comment on now.

Yes, it's a public hearing.

Yes, so madam chair.

This just for so everyone's clear, state statute does require that we give council members the opportunity to speak, and we give the public the opportunity to speak, and that the council has the opportunity to express its sentiment or it says you shall express your sentiment.

So if you'd like to, you can go ahead and jump into the public comment period.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh we'll go ahead and take public comment at this point.

If there are is anybody in chambers that would like to make public comment on this public hearing, please um come up to the podium, fill out a blue card.

Same with online.

I don't have any, so if you want to go to online first.

I thought you had I thought we gave you one comment, one card, Madam Chair.

That was listed for the public hearing.

Is there some is there somebody that would like to make public comment that I apologize?

Maybe I just misread it.

I I do, madam chair.

If I could make a public comment as a citizen on this, I'd be happy to fill out a blue card.

Would you mind coming down to the public just for the sake of being a citizen?

So I grew up outside of Toledo, Ohio, in a really marshy area on a creek, and so mosquitoes uh were something that we grew up with, but we didn't have West Nile virus where I grew up, and here in Utah, that's a really serious public health concern.

So it's not just for you know the convenience of um undjoying outdoor barbecues, but as a matter of public health, mosquito abatement and the work of the mosquito abatement group is so important to our public health, not only to humans but our animals and pets who are susceptible.

So I just want to remind the council that this is a um very big very important public health service.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Do you want to quickly address our online audience?

Of course, thank you, madam chair.

Uh, if you are joining us virtually via Zoom and you would like to comment on this evening's public hearing item, just go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen now.

I'll call your name in the order in which you raised your hand, and you'll have three minutes.

Not seeing any hands raised, madam chair.

All right, thank you.

And I didn't see anybody jump up to fill out a blue card, so I'm gonna go ahead and close the public comment portion for this item.

I I just want to make it clear for ourselves and for the public.

My it's my understanding that the council has no say or sway in whether or not the mosquito abatement district does or does not increase their tax rate.

The purpose of today's uh hearing in an agenda item is simply to comply with state statute that requires them to notify us in a public sense meeting.

Is that accurate?

That's my understanding, madam chair.

What you're required to do is place it on an agenda as a separate item within 40 days of the request, which you've done.

You're required to give council members the opportunity to speak to it.

You're required to give the public the opportunity to speak to it, and then you're required to express your sentence.

Thank you, Mr.

Fratto, Mr.

Pace.

Uh actually, Dustin just said that the um the statute says that the legislative entity shall quote express the legislative entity's sentiment regarding the contemplated property tax increase, end quote.

So all right, thank you very much.

If is there anything else that the council would like to share or add or question?

Mr.

Meekham.

I spoke my piece.

Okay.

All right.

Well, I am going to go ahead and close this item then.

Thank you very much for your time tonight.

Um that brings us back to item number four, which is the administrative services department presenting on the annual budget carryover process.

Mr.

Brian Kelly, our uh administrative services director will be presenting, and I will turn it over to you, Brian.

Okay, thank you.

Good evening, council.

Um as they pull up the slides.

I'll just brief you on for the public.

This is we call it our carryover process.

It's essentially our fiscal year ends June 30th of each year.

And so this is the process of closing out the books for that fiscal year, carrying over savings and other projects that were in the middle of completion, or that span the fiscal year, and so we're carrying those over and re-appropriating, asking you to reappropriate some of those savings and make some adjustments.

Um when it comes to the general fund, one of the purposes reasons we do this is to uh curb the use it or lose it mentality with our uh general fund department so that they're not rushing to spend all their budget at the end of the year towards the last few months so that um there's not the perception that they have too much money because we allow them to come to you and recommend that they use any savings they have for specific purposes, like that will help them become more efficient.

For example, software, computer equipment, other types of equipment, fleet capital projects, and those kinds of things.

And as I mentioned, it's to increase productivity efficiency and service levels.

And we don't allow them to use it, and accounting wise, it's not allowed to be used for operational needs in the in the next year.

So this slide just kind of outlines the processes in the general fund and then other funds.

That's essentially what I've talked about.

We're allowing them to carry over savings and come to you with recommendations.

It goes through a process.

Departments make recommendations to the budget committee, and those are reviewed, and we ask questions and scrutinize it.

And then it's coming before you, and the mayor reviews it as well before that before this step.

So and then accounting wise, this is a little diagram just shows briefly that we're taking in the general fund savings that's captured there and transferring it to these other funds, mostly fleet IT equipment management, payroll management in some cases.

Okay, this slide shows you the total amount of general fund savings that was available.

We had this number in the bottom right showing 1.37 million, but that includes about over 300,000 of equipment management savings that wasn't used this last year.

So the net the real savings uh from the general fund was a little over a million dollars.

And you might ask, well, how does that compare to past years?

If you look at our 10-year average of savings in the general funds between 1.7 and 1.8 million, so we're just over a million this year.

It's one of the lower.

We had actually a little bit less than this last year, but it's probably our second lowest year in the last 10 years.

And that just shows you that our departments uh one thing is they're operating more fully staffed because most of the savings when we do have savings comes from uh vacancies and staffing.

Um, so they've been more fully staffed, which is commendable to our and you we appreciate you as a council approving our compensation plans because it's allowed us to keep more of our employees and have a better retention rate.

Um, and then also it just shows that how lean our departments are operating because there's not really much left over.

Um that's uh about 1.4% of our total budget, so over a 70 million dollar budget, and we only add a little over a million left over.

It's you see the margins pretty narrow there of how lean the departments are operating.

Okay, I just want to go through and highlight some of the major items that are being carried over.

And the numbers I'm gonna show you here include carryover plus any adjustment, so it's the total, and it also includes if there was a budget for fiscal year 26.

So this is showing you the total number.

Um in the water fund, we have replacing main lines, it's one of the biggest capital project items.

That's eight will with the total will be 8.5 million with these adjustments.

Building improvements and water, 844,000, replacing well equipment 600,000.

In our fleet, um, we'll have 1.2 million that's going towards fleet.

This includes, and this is one of the big accomplishments I feel like with this carryover process is we're adding 850,000 of fleet uh fund balance to purchasing the tiller truck that was identified in the management study that you all commissioned.

Um that total cost is going to be close between what 2.2 and 2.3 million.

So this after this addition of 850,000, we'll have over a million dollars saved towards that.

So we're and the the truck won't be ready for three more years, so we still have some runway to build up to that.

But um I feel good that we're almost halfway there.

Um that number also includes a couple of police vehicles that they're using some of their savings for in golf, they're allocating some of their carryover to capital equipment, 496,000, and then in general capital projects.

Uh, we have the community recreation center, which is what we're calling it.

It's the Alta Canyon.

This is the Alta Canyon project.

Overall, between all sources, we have 23 million that will be appropriated for this completion of this project, which is a huge accomplishment for the city for you as elected officials and being able, you know, we we celebrated the groundbreaking just last week, which was an awesome event, and this is putting all the funding in place to complete that project.

Public works phase two to complete and zero out that project.

Um we have 915,000 still appropriated in this year.

Management studies, this is one I thought you're obviously interested in.

So we're carrying over some of the savings you have from your budget, 50,000, and we're putting it in it, and as we go forward, we're gonna put that in a capital project so it can be carried over year to year as you commission those every other year, and it will build up some savings there, and we're putting 50,000 in that this year.

Um and then the chambers remodel.

Uh, this is one that's you've been slowly saving a little bit uh for quite a few years now, but the total allocation there will be 356,000.

In street reconstruction, we have a total of 4.1 million and hazardous concrete 1.4 million.

Um street lighting improvements uh in we have 1.1 million and stormwater neighborhood projects 3.8, and replacing the corrugated meadow pipe for stormwater is 921,000.

Um in this uh process, we also have some spot corporate sponsorships that have come in.

The events team uh and the mayor have sought out and acquired 17,000 of event sponsorships, and so uh we would like and we're recommending that we appropriate that money for the heritage festival, light up the cairns in the fourth of July.

This is above and beyond what was budgeted for 2026.

Um so we want to increase the appropriate appropriations by 17 to go towards those events.

Uh we also have in here a fee schedule amendments, and there's a resolution on this that if you have questions, we can go into.

But essentially, the community development department is evaluated some of their processes when it comes to approval of single family duplexes and additional uh permits and plan review, and in many cases they're decreasing the fees to better align with their processes.

They're they've found that it's not taking them as long, and the processes in is um you know using needing as much effort as they originally estimated.

Um, and then in some cases the fees are going up because when they changed their valuation methodology, um there were some that were inadvertently decreased, and so they need to be readjusted.

Um so that's why those fees are amendments are in there, and then I'm happy to go over any specific questions you might have.

With the there's in the end, you know, this is an informational item tonight, and we have noticed the public hearing for next week.

Um, but in the end, there will be four resolutions that we're asking you to approve and adopt.

Um for proprietary funds like our business type funds, one for our governmental funds, which include our capital projects, and then we have the fee amendments as a separate resolution, and we have RDA carryover, which would be the fourth resolution.

Um any questions you have.

Council, are there questions for Brian right now?

Council member Houskin, and then we'll go to Rapinson.

Uh thank you, madam chair.

Just wanted to ask a quick clarifying question.

The $17,000 that you meant mentioned appropriation.

We're appropriating funds we received from donations from community partners.

Correct.

You're not asking for um a $17,000 match to the $17,000 we received.

You're just making note that we received $17,000, and this is where you were intending to allocate that $17,000.

Yes, that's correct.

Okay.

I just thought we had already spent those donations because at those events that we've already held, and that's the same.

Yeah, this is somewhat of a cleanup thing because we haven't opened the budget till now from like the 4th of July has already occurred, the heritage festival, so somewhat of a cleanup item that we're doing after the fact.

But okay, so you're saying we spent money and we're basically refilling those coffers from this grant or sorry, these donations that we have.

Those sponsorships came in at the time of the event.

Right.

But this is our chance to open the budget and recognize them officially on the books.

Um and then uh the only other question I really had um was I have two numbers somehow that I I mixed up and I'm trying to check my notes against what you just shared, and I looked through those slides and I don't know where the discrepancy is, but could you clarify um the council chambers um the the number we are appro appropriating from carryover specifically and then where we stand overall with the capital project fund for our council chambers that's where my numbers are not aligning.

Okay, yes, I can do that.

Um we're carrying over well council chambers carrying over 220,000.

There's 35,917 being added.

And then we budget you budgeted a hundred thousand in the 2026 budget.

So all that adds up to 355, 996.

So that'll be the total.

Okay.

That's the piece, the two twenty thousand two hundred and twenty thousand that is actually carryover.

I was trying to track that number down.

Okay.

Let me just do a quick scan.

I think that was um everything I had because we'll talk RDA later.

Okay.

I think that's all I had.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Uh Mr.

Fratto wanted to respond to that.

Yeah, I just I just wanted to I think there might you I'm sorry, Marcy, but in my mind I'm like, I think you maybe you're still maybe still misunderstanding the council chambers.

So the when Brian says the 220 is carried over, that is existing in it it was existing in last fiscal year's budget.

We had that amount of money.

And then moving into FY26, you guys opted to uh put an additional, it was 100,000, right, Brian?

Yes.

And so we had uh I I don't know the exact number, but I want to say it was about 30 a little under 36,000 uh in our budget.

Um that was not appropriated towards the council chambers, and that's the amount that we said, hey, we would like this 36,000 uh appropriated during carryover to the 220 plus 100 that we that the council has already set aside.

Go ahead.

Thank you.

Yes.

Um I was trying to track all of that, so very helpful, but it did remind me of one more question, uh, more of a statement actually, and I don't know that's necessarily for you, Brian, but more to the council.

I've been thinking a bit about um how valuable our early January-ish, I can't remember the dates exactly, but the budget priority workshop that we all engaged in.

Um we received a lot of great feedback.

I enjoyed planning that um with Mr.

Robinson and all of our staff.

Um, and I am wondering, I think it would be a valuable exercise again, and I don't know that we've necessarily designated anything within our council like contingency and and this carry over is clearly the discussion tonight is about council chambers.

So I want to sort of start that ball rolling in terms of thinking about a another budget priorities workshop.

I think it was incredibly valuable.

I'd like to make that uh uh a regular practice, but I don't know from where we might draw those funds.

Is it appropriate to introduce that here in this budget carryover discussion?

I can only give you my opinion because it's also I want your opinion.

I I think we can probably figure it out in the existing council budget.

Uh really I mean we have the city's contingency right within our budget.

Okay.

And that's not exclusively exclusively for council, but I mean we could we could use some of that money to pay for uh that type of process if you'd like to hire somebody again.

So I'm I'm not concerned with paying for it out of uh with carryover funds.

Okay.

Well then just know I'd like to set that in motion now.

We're gonna have you know, um essentially new council members joining us, it's gonna be a new new council, and it would be a great exercise.

So I'll just start working on that then.

If if it doesn't need to be a part of this process, then we'll just figure it out.

All right, that's all I had.

I truly mean it.

I'm done.

Thank you, Councilmember Housman, Council Member Robinson.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Uh during during the budget process, um it was discussed, and when Ms.

Houseman and I put our proposal forward, we did reduce fleet by 120,000, and I believe most of that was targeted to police for the leadership SUVs.

We committed here to restoring that.

And so I would like to ask uh if that is built into what you're proposing, or is that work that the council needs to do to make sure we make that budget whole?

Um it's included in there, those police vehicles that I mentioned.

There's two unmarked vehicles that's the TBD, right?

That's on the in the exhibit.

Yeah, 140,000 total.

Okay, cool.

Just wanted to make sure, because again, we did commit to the body that we would consider that uh during this process.

So I appreciate you, Brian, for taking note of that and building that into your proposal.

Thank you.

And I'm sure council staff thinks you too, they don't have to do it now.

So thank you.

Um I I mean I have questions, but I also feel like for me, and maybe I'm alone, and that's okay.

Um this is missing a lot of detail, and I feel like I need more detail.

And I feel like I would like to better understand, and I'm not saying that it has to be done here, but maybe um in an email or definitely with the next um packet when it comes back, more detail on the uh actual equipment that is going to be purchased, because it right now I'm just looking at buckets of equipment with dollar amounts, right?

And so if you look on the um the the section, it's the proprietary funds, resolution 2549 C.

And you go through it starts on page um 11 of the PDF.

Um if you look on page 10, it starts with supplementary supplementary information, and it has a breakout of revenues and appropriations at a high level.

But is it as you continue on, you'll see each department and their savings amounts, and there's a there's a footnote under each department section that gives you like for example, um, if we turn to the city council on page 13 of the PDF, it'll show request office equipment furniture, conference room furniture, computer equipment, laptops for iPads too, camera equipment, camera and Lanzi replacement, and so forth.

So there's that detail for each department of what she what do you put?

Oh, I I'm uh there should be I don't know that my packet has this level of information.

So if you look on the screen right now, I don't know if you're following I can, but that's not what I'm what I have.

You don't have that in your packet.

And so, and then the my my my comment or my question based off of what you're showing now is those are requests.

Are all of those requests being fulfilled with the carryover?

Yeah, these these yeah, it's listed as a request, but this is what's being proposed to you.

There's not there's not anything listed there that's not in these carryover proposal numbers.

When we we have the exact amounts of the savings, we tell departments okay.

Um for example, with city council or court services, their actual savings um of those available 29,165, and we tell them you have 29,165.

How would you like to to recommend spending that?

And they give us these requests, and they have to balance out to the amount available.

So they're not submitting additional requests beyond that.

It's not not like the regular budget process when you know we allow them to submit um beyond what may be available.

They they give us all their needs at that time.

This one they're they're only giving us needs for what money's available.

Okay, well, I guess uh thank you for sharing this.

I it really is not what I am seeing in well.

No, I guess maybe if I go further, I kind of am.

So my apologies.

Can you make it a little easier to read?

And like seriously, bring it back in more of a document that lists out the like equipment and whatnot that the carryover funds should they be approved, we'll cover because that'll also help.

I think for next budget year, keep track of a little bit better.

I think the the budget goes into a lot of detail.

So you like we're aware of how many vehicles in what department we are proposing or is being proposed to fund that we approve or not, but in this carryover process, it's a little messy.

And so I'd like to be able to personally as a council member be able to track that.

And this format's very difficult to track.

Okay, yeah, and we're happy to sit down with you, or you know, if you want to go through and we can step it is a lot of information, and we know it can be um hard to find or confusing.

So we're happy to review it with you and help you find and answer your questions.

approve or not but in this carryover process it's a little messy and so I'd like to be able to personally as a council member be able to track that and this format's very difficult to track okay yeah and we're happy to sit down with you or you know if you want to go through and we can step it is a lot of information and we know it can be hard to find or confusing so we're happy to review it with you and help you find and answer your questions and we're open to discussing a different format if you'd like so can you present a different format with the packet next week well let's talk about what format you would like okay yeah tomorrow 1030 okay are there any other questions council member Sharkey thank you Brian thank you madam chair um I'd like to make sure I understand what's going on on um resolution 2550 C which is agenda packet page 63 of 175 um this is the one that details capital projects okay and um this is the first time I can recall uh that we've started out carryover with a negative number and so what that suggests to me is is there was a budget shortfall there we go so the last line under projects public works facility phase two so is that suggesting that we ended the budget year with a budget shortfall for that capital project um partially correct so first of all this isn't the first time this has happened it's happened before okay um but if you recall the funding plan for that uh phase two was to sell the triangle piece of property west of the stadium and that's if you look at this line item budgeted was 1.2 million um that has not still yet been sold as of this as of June 30th so they did overcome and they these reports are all based on a June 38th ending fiscal year so at the end of the fiscal year June 30th they were exceeding that budget by that 954000.

Okay and like I said this has happened in other projects before okay and then we are making adjustments so public works has put some of their savings towards this through it would be 368 in the additional column okay and then the adjustment one they are still short because the project ended up costing more than they anticipated and so we're contemplating there they have a parcel of property an additional parcel that's I think five or seven hundred west that they're surplusing here in the in the near future that would go towards that as well as a part of a property um that's the so where are all those the 368 is departmental savings from last fiscal year oh that that's the um 300 704 or the savings well it looks like they're borrowing from other yeah they're taking from those other projects those adjustments down below for example the the bridge projects 250 so those yeah you're seeing that correctly I think 250 is being adjusted and that's going up to the 300 so where did the 3687 seventy come from in those are coming from the two property sales that two property sales okay and department savings yeah okay and I can show you if we want to go down I can show you exactly the department savings we would have to switch over to the proprietary fund resolution 2549 C and go to the public works department which is should be on page 16 of 17 on the PDF yeah so if you look on that far right table the capital projects yeah 200 and is that 86.

Okay 27719 is going towards phase two from Ryan's saving departmental savings.

Okay so back to that other page going back to resolution 2550 C so this shows that for public works phase two after the additions the savings applied the adjustments carry over applied and the 2026 budget applied um we're not on the right page yet there we go 915 thousand shows the phase two project in the black with a surplus of nine hundred and fifteen thousand no that's how much we need to appropriate so that they can pay out the rest of the invoices that are coming so that with the 915 that will complete the project and it'll be zeroed out okay the other thing

Uh there we go.

915,000 shows the phase two project in the black with a surplus of 915,000.

No, that's how much we need to appropriate so that they can pay out the rest of the invoices that are coming.

So that with the 915 that will complete the project and it'll be zeroed out.

Okay.

The other thing I want to point out on here that we had that budget of 1.2 million.

That was for the sale.

Well, that was our estimate for the sale of the triangle piece west of the stadium.

And because of the road, Monroe Street going through there, it used up some of that land, and so our actual net amount is gonna be under 900,000.

So that was less than what we anticipated.

Because we saved some of that property for our own use instead of putting it up for sale.

Yeah, it was needed for the road.

Okay.

Um it's just I remember us debating this and how to pay for it.

And so it looks like we have a game plan.

It doesn't look to me like it was off kilter from what the options that we talked about.

And so I'm thank you for answering all those questions.

Um I'm really glad I have a better understanding of how we're gonna reconcile that one.

I appreciate that.

Um Yeah, that's a big accomplishment to get that phase two done.

And it, you know, with your help as the council, we really appreciate it and your approvals.

And that was it was a you know, a tenuous decision you made to go forward with the contract at the time, if you remember, and we didn't have everything exactly lined up in cash in hand.

This was some very good teamwork.

Yeah, thank you for the thanks and back at you, Brian.

Yeah, you bet.

So and we're almost to the finish line now, and we have, yeah, it's it'll come to fruition, but we still have a little bit more to do, and um, but we have a good plan to finish it out.

So I I have a question about res um the fire impact fee one.

That's a few pages onward.

Um fund 42 220.

Yeah.

So um this is fire impact fees being applied to fire station 31 expansion and relocation.

Uh the carryover amount was 446, 863.

So we've really just added in carryover, we've just added 64853.

Um, and then we've got a 2026 budget.

I'm just curious if we're applying fire impact fees in this way to fire station 31.

I can't find in the detail later exact exactly what that 5677 is.

And I guess the the root of my question is that um do we need to focus all fire impact fees on station 31, and are we neglecting needs in other stations?

Should we spread the wealth a little bit, or does it have to be here?

I I'm just I'm assuming there's a game plan.

I'd like to understand that one a little bit more.

I do know that we have future needs.

You've made it that fire departments made it very clear for the other uh stations, and so it just seems like we're putting so much of our revenue into 31.

And the answer is that it's needed that you know, but I'm wondering if we could spread it a little bit.

I'm just curious to get a little more detail as to why fire impact fees all need to be directed there and maybe not to some of the other stations.

It's just yeah, this is a um good question.

So this is our short-term plan is to put it all there until we complete the project.

But we we anticipate not using all of this.

Um our fire impact fee study that we did um, I think it's been about two years ago now.

It contemplated also um fees going toward station 34 potentially expanding space there, and also um the ladder truck, the tiller truck.

So state law allows you to use it for fire apparatus as long as it's over a million dollars and it has a 10-year life, and so we anticipate um using any excess here, and we do think there will be some excess here.

So state law allows you to use it for fire apparatus as long as it's over a million dollars and it has a 10-year life, and so we anticipate um using any excess here, and we do think there will be some excess here towards first that tiller getting that tiller truck fully funded, and then we can look at the fire department's plans for any future other station they want to expand.

Um beyond those two projects, we would need to amend the uh capital impact fee plan, fire impact fee section to be able to use it on any other you know other stations, those are the ones we've identified.

So we're still building to a goal there, yeah.

And we're not ready to make any changes.

And we'll have the architect all those contracts will be paid out, and we'll see exactly how much is left.

We could have split it up at this process, but we thought I just wanted to leave it all here until we see exactly what the number left over is, and then we can move it to other projects after that.

Okay.

I'm interested in uh fund 4500.

We're going forward a couple of pages here, capital projects and grants.

Um this debris flow study.

Um there was a reduction to this.

Does that mean that the grant was less than we expected, or the cost of the study is less than we expected?

Is that debris flow study fully funded at 256,000?

That's my question.

That's my understanding.

Is that right, Ryan?

Yeah, thanks, Cindy.

Yeah, with our agreement with for the BRIC grant, which is funding this.

Um we were limited to a top-out amount, and they're only paying 80%.

So when we did the agreement, we had to back down what they were willing to pay, and that's the drop of 64 with the amount that the city had allocated, which is 80.

We still are within budget for the firm that was selected and their bid on the project.

We're gonna commence that study soon.

It is underway.

Okay, and this is the one on the east bench east of Wasatch?

Correct.

Okay.

What's our expected completion date on that?

Do we need to do that?

We're hoping to have a draft this winter and then some uh review committees.

Uh the study will be looking at potential debris flow paths, uh, areas of risk, and then a list of um mitigations that could be considered for future consideration.

And we hope to have that final report by the spring.

Okay.

I think that might hold on.

Hold on, hold on.

That might be it.

Um yeah.

So um the um page 93 of 175 in the packet.

This might be like my last question.

Yay.

Um the um moving some of the excess revenue to fund balance.

617,668 to fund balance.

Was that in achieving staying at a certain percentage relative to the overall budget?

Why that yeah, that's to keep us at 12 percent balance.

Yeah, that's just to keep that level because our revenues came in higher than budget.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Are there any other questions from the council?

I would like to finish with a question.

I'm curious about the um now that I've found it in my packet.

Uh I just thought it was the capital project for additional security measures for administration and administrative services.

And I know that our council office has talked about that too, and that's included in our carryover.

And I I'm just trying to understand, and maybe this is a question for you too, Dustin.

The requested upgrades that you have made, are they adequate?

I I and by adequate I mean, you know, are are they what we want them to be, or are we trying to do it you know, on the cheap, and we aren't really closing the security gaps that we feel we have.

You want me to speak to that, madam chair?

I do.

So I just want to say I'm not gonna speak with too much specificity because honestly, this could be a closed session item, I believe.

I don't want to talk too much about you know putting security devices out on the public record.

Um I'm not I don't know that I'm comfortable answering whether or not it's adequate or not.

Then we don't have to have that conversation here.

We're in our office, we're trying to address what we feel like our uh immediate concerns, and I'm happy to chat with any of you behind the scenes individually, or if you want to talk about it as a council, I think we could talk about uh security or I can't remember the exact language, but security devices is one of the things we can discuss in closed session as well.

Okay, well, maybe maybe we go that route because you know, I just more than anything.

I want to make sure that that we are um I I feel like the council has a tendency to under budget for ourselves, you know, to give elsewhere.

And I you know, this is a uh an issue that is very important.

Um, and I think that I just want to make sure that in these discussions that we are adequately um planning for uh and budgeting for our needs.

That's so one other comment, madam chair.

We do have a closed session on the agenda tonight.

If you have any questions for me about that in the closed session, I'm happy to address them.

Okay, we'll we'll save it there.

Okay, I don't have anything else right now, so thank you, Brian.

Okay, thank you.

All right, that takes us to the consent calendar, which is items five and six.

It is the draft meeting minutes for the October 21st and October 28th meeting.

Do I have a motion?

Motion to approve the consent calendar.

Second.

Great motion and a second.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

And I didn't say aye, but I am eyeing.

Um that motion passes.

So now we are at council voting item eight with the amendments to title 21 of the land development code related to boundary adjustments.

Melissa Anderson, our zoning administrator, um, presented this last council meeting, and so I'm just gonna ask you, Melissa, if there's anything that you'd like to say or or just quickly um overview, that might be helpful.

Yeah, uh, we went over this two weeks ago at the work session, and this is a code amendment to implement state law related to boundary adjustments, otherwise known as uh property line adjustments.

We have some new terminology and adjustment to the our procedures to be in accordance with state law.

That's it.

Thank you, Melissa.

Are there any questions at this time?

All right, seeing none, this is a voting item.

Um, our policy says that we will take public comment on this, so I will ask.

I don't have any blue cards on this item.

If there is anybody in chambers that would like to speak on this item before we uh deliberate here or online, please raise your hand virtually all right.

I am not seeing any, so I'll go ahead and close the public comment portion for this item and bring it back to the council.

Mr.

Meekham.

I move that we adopt ordinance 25-25 and ordinance of meeting the Sandy City Municipal Code, title 21.

Oh second.

Okay, motion and a second.

I'm gonna call the second houseman because I heard it here.

And so is there any discussion on that motion?

All right, Miss Edwards, if you would take a roll call vote.

Thank you, madam chair, Mr.

Meekham.

Yes, Ms.

Houseman?

Yes.

Sharkey.

Yes, Ms.

T'Susa?

Yes, Mr.

DeKaiser.

Yes.

Ms.

Stroud, yes, Mr.

Robinson.

Yes, madam chair.

That motion carried seven to zero.

Thank you.

Um I just want to ask.

We have the next item, standing reports, and then the possible closed session.

Does anybody need a quick break or do we want to power through?

I'm okay to power through.

All right, we're gonna power through.

So um then item number nine is the is a recess of the city council meeting to convene a meeting of the administrative control board, board of trustees for the Alta Canyon Recreation Special Service District.

For this, I'll move that we recess the city council meeting and convene a meeting of the Alta Canyon Recreation Special Service District Board of Trustees.

Second.

Um, this could be a voice vote as far as I was told.

So all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

All right, that motion passes.

We're gonna um go into the presentation first.

So we have um Martin Jensen, our deputy CAO, and Dan Medina, our parks and recreation director.

Um go slow, be careful.

Very slow.

Uh who will be providing the board with an update, and so I'll go ahead and turn it over to you and Lois and Jeddah.

Yes, thank you.

Um, and uh Chief McConaughey promised to help me back up if I can't make it back up.

So we'll take him up on that.

Um just wanted to take a minute to and as we kick this off, and um with a sincere thank you to the council, to the board, to the mayor, um, for your leadership as elected officials in leading out in rebuilding this facility.

Um I've had the unique pleasure of being part of 10 uh facility rebuilds, very similar, either brand new or additions or remodels within uh Salt Lake County.

Is as we were sitting up there last Friday breaking ground and um celebrating this uh this milestone, it dawned on me.

This is the first one that I've been involved with that has not been bonded for.

And um, that is a huge accomplishment as a city, and um our residents should be proud for that because when we open this, we're gonna open this debt-free, and it's gonna start to benefit our residents' lives immediately.

So um, I just want to say thank you for the leadership and the courage to put funds aside and then to go and seek outside funds as well.

Um, through the county track board through the generous donation of the millers, we're able to bring this to life, and uh we've done it all together.

So it's exciting to to see it uh come together.

So, with that, um I'll turn it over to Jeddah and Lois to go through some present the presentation, and we'll uh be here to help answer questions if need.

Um hi.

Um I uh for those of you that don't know, my name is Lois Stillian.

I'm the center manager of Sandy Community and Recreation Center.

Um I'm gonna walk you through where we're at with construction right now.

Uh many of you saw there's no building left.

So starting back in September, uh, September through October, we did demolition.

The construction crew did a miraculous job and meticulous job of tearing down the building all the way up to that very edge of the pool, which is what we're preserving and what we're most nervous about.

But uh they did an amazing job tearing down that building.

Uh, my staff staff and I were very fortunate to be up there for the very last wall to come down.

And although it's a little bittersweet, it was I'm like, I'm ready, let's go.

Um, so that led us right into the groundbreaking, which was last Friday.

Uh, thank you on behalf of our staff and everybody.

Thank you so much for coming and presenting and talking and um just your support.

Like it means the world to my team and our staff.

Um, just all around, like the whole administration, the community uh communications team, IT, everything came together uh for that.

And I I was just blown away at like all the you know, it was nice to see all of our patrons that we haven't seen for a minute.

Uh but it was just really an amazing event, and just so thankful for how it all got put together.

Um we're in the thick of it now, we're getting ready to start construction.

You should start to see um some found uh foundation pouring and some footings, and I promise my construction lingo is getting better.

I'm learning so much, but um, you should start to see that over the next couple weeks, as well as over the next year.

Uh, we're gonna start to see little little pieces of this getting built and our facility being born.

Um I'm really excited.

Leighton has us projected to have a soft openings hopefully next December 2026.

So a year from now, when I'm up here again going, this is where we're at, we're getting ready to open and hopefully enjoy an Aribian ribbon cutting in 2027.

So while all of that is happening, um we are still so my me and my staff got relocated to the parks and recreation uh offices down in Historic Sandy.

Um we were fortunate enough to be able to bring down about 26 aerobics classes with instructors and everything.

So we're running those weekly.

Uh, we it's fun to see a lot of our patrons again that we don't get to see that we haven't seen regularly, but we've seen some new faces down there.

So I'm just so excited that we've been able to bring some programming down there that maybe some of those citizens haven't been able to utilize before.

So really cool.

Um, we did bring down some youth programming as well.

So we're running that um throughout the fall.

Uh we'll hit that definitely hard this spring and summer again and continue doing that for both not only our preschool age kids but our grade school kids and hopefully get some teenager stuff going on in the summer.

But outside of that, we're working really really hard on programming the new facility, breaking down membership structures, getting everything kind of set up and lined up, how we want to open and definitely have as much programming as possible for all ages is our goal at the end of the day from preschool all the way up to seniors, super seniors, and all of that too.

So working really hard.

But again, just thank you for your guys' support and everything.

I'll let Jeddah finish it up.

You guys know who I am.

Just wanted to talk real quick about the name.

Alta Canyon Sports Center.

Um the name Alta Canyon Sports Center served us well for over 40 years.

Um having been really closely involved with Alta Canyon for a lot of my career, it also created a little bit of confusion.

Um, and so I with this new building, we have a great opportunity to clear up some of the confusion.

Um, and there's two main things that I think that this name, Sandy Community and Recreation Center clears up.

One is who is this building for?

Um, and two is what is this building.

Um this new center is not going to be for any one particular neighborhood, it's gonna be for Sandy City.

Um, and I think it's important that we effectively communicate that from the very beginning.

Um, this slide outlines some of the guidelines that the National Parks and Recreation Association has um has put out in regards to naming recreation facilities.

So that first recommendation is based on geographic location.

So if we want this facility to serve Sandy City and it's in Sandy City, um it makes sense that it should bear the city's name.

Um, and community and recreation center effectively communicates what this building is going to be.

Um, a recreation center, as most would imagine a recreation center.

Um, sports center is a little bit confusing.

What sports um, but a rec center, I think most people understand and they know what they're getting when they go to a rec center.

Um, but also, as we've talked about extensively, this is also gonna be a place for the community to gather and for people to be a part of their community.

Um, and then we also included at the bottom.

Um, obviously, naming rights would still absolutely be an option should that opportunity present itself in the future.

The next thing we wanted to chat with you guys about is a boundary line adjustment.

Um, I hope that the changes that just got voted on doesn't you know mess us up too much.

Um, also, this is a new experience for me, so um, I know a little bit about it, but I'm not an expert.

Um, the the property up at Alta Canyon actually contains several parcels.

Um the line that we need to adjust splits uh two parcels.

So it's parcel three and parcel four.

Um, parcel three is where the former Alta Canyon building sat.

Um, that whole building was contained in that parcel.

That's our also where the Sandy Community and Recreation Center will be contained.

Um, however, the footprint of the new building is a little bit bigger than the footprint of the old building.

Um, and so we need to increase that lot size just a little bit.

So the two parcels are both owned by the Alta Canyon Special Service Tax District.

Um, and we just need to move that lot line in between the two to the east about 10 feet.

Um, so parcel three will become a little bit bigger, and parcel four will become a little bit smaller.

Um, we do need the approval of the board so that the board chair can sign the lot line agreement when we get to that point in the process.

So we're happy to answer any questions or or address any concerns that you guys might have about that, but we do need you guys to approve that.

Is that okay?

We're gonna is that the end of the update presentation, and I'm wondering.

We're gonna uh Brian will come up and go through the uh the financial update too.

We just wanted to provide a detailed update of the funding to date on the construction project as well.

So Brian will provide what update?

Uh an overview of the funding of the project, just to make sure that it's uh giving you the latest on how we've funded it.

Okay, so there's a couple of other things that I that still need to be taken care of within this particular meeting, and I know that that's one of them, so I will come back to that.

Um, council member Housman had a question, so go ahead.

Thank you, madam chair.

I it was actually on this boundary adjustment.

I just um I want to understand the value of keeping two parcels if we're if we're moving a boundary line.

Um, and but both parcels are owned by the Alta Canyon Tax District.

What I guess what's the purpose and value of maintaining two parcels?

Is there a reason we're not just calling them a single parcel moving forward?

Uh that's that's an option as well.

Um we we could go go forward with that.

We were just trying to get to this the simplest solution to be able to get obtain the building permit was just to adjust the uh the property line because the building's new footprint extends uh a little bit on onto the current property.

So our goal right now is to make sure that we get the the building permit um start moving forward with with construction, and then there's other bigger property issues or discussions I would say that we want to have with the entire property that we'll have probably in in the coming year.

And so we we figured at that point we would have a bigger discussion about the district's property, the city's property up there, and make those decisions at one time as we're going forward.

Okay, so for now, the approval you need is moving moving the boundary line 10 feet.

Correct to the east.

Right, thank you.

That's all I had.

Thank you.

Are there any council member Robinson?

Uh thank you, madam chair.

I I have two questions, one on the boundary and one on the name.

Which one do you want first?

Doesn't matter.

Let's talk boundaries since we're right here.

Like, what are the mechanics of that?

Um we're essentially negotiating with ourselves.

Um but what are the mechanics of transferring property that's owned by a special service district that has an uncertain future to the city to Sandy City?

We're we're not transferring it to Sandy City.

I'm talking about in the future.

In the future, yeah.

Like, because you just said that's a conversation that's gonna happen in the coming year.

Did I understand that correctly?

Yeah.

So is that when that question will be answered?

I'm sure somebody is sitting at this table is gonna ask that question.

Like, what are the mechanics to sell property to ourselves?

Um it's a great question.

One that uh will will involve our our our new real estate employee, our attorneys.

Um it's kind of a loaded question.

Uh there's there's a bigger answer there that I'm not prepared to answer right now, but we're happy to dive into it when that time comes.

Uh and that's fair, and I appreciate that.

Um, I was just kind of curious.

I didn't have that question until Miss Houseman brought hers up, so just she jogged that thought in my mind.

So going back to the name, I I appreciate the context on how you landed, where you landed, but I do have to push back just slightly.

And and I do feel like the significance, the historical significance of Alta Canyon Sports Center was something that I was hoping for in the name.

I do I don't I'm not opposed to what we've got here.

I just want that to be known.

But I do feel like we miss an opportunity there to incorporate some of that long historical significance of the center itself, because it's still going to be called Alta Canyon.

Let's just call it Duck a Duck.

Um and so I will I personally would have liked to have seen some of the Alta Canyon Sports Center moniker be brought in.

So perhaps Sandy Community and Sports Center.

But Jed, I think you I understand where you're coming from.

So again, I I'm not pushing back there.

I just would have liked to see some of that historical significance incorporated into the name.

And I would love to hear your response to that.

And and please don't take that as as confrontational.

I just want to express that that I think we missed and we missed we missed something there.

Uh and and I just I just want to mention that.

Um speaking for my for my own self.

Um, but like I said, there was a lot of confusion with the name Alta Canyon Sports Center.

Um, just for my own personal reference today, I googled Alta Canyon to see if Alta Canyon actually really exists, and it does, and it's in Norway.

Um, and so I think I think the biggest concern that I have heard over and over and over again about Alta Canyon is that's just for that district.

That's just for the people that live by it.

Um, and even now we're getting emails from from the construction update website saying historically this has only been available for memberships to residents of the district.

Is that gonna change with this new facility?

Um and so I think it's important right now that we communicate to the community to the Sandy City as a whole.

That I mean, obviously, I know, and you guys probably know that anyone could have had a membership at Alta Canyon Sports Center.

Um, but but the name I think throws people off and is a little bit confusing, and it's not as inclusive as I would like to see this facility be for the city.

And if I may, just um with with my work history, um, you know, I oversaw 28 recreation facilities for the county for for two decades.

The centers that were named after geographic places or communities were so much easier to market, they were so much easier for residents to find, and they had a better sense of community.

The one-offs where they were unique names, I won't call them bad names, they were they were unique names, they were harder to connect with the community, and residents had a hard time even after they'd been open for decades finding where they were.

And so just from an operational standpoint, I I councilman Robinson, I completely understand that the nod to the past, and and there's a part of us that you know really wants to continue with that, but we're trying to uh we've we've made a recommendation that we feel is is best for residents moving forward.

And and I don't disagree.

A lot of the feedback we even have heard in here has been this is not a community, a true community asset, and and I don't agree with that comment.

But and I understand where you're going with this.

I would just for me sitting here like sharing my thoughts.

I I would just ask that if there's an opportunity to incorporate some some of the historical significance of the Alta Canyon name, I think that should be considered for future, you know, however that's gonna fit into the project overall.

Um, I I just I think that I again I understand where you're coming from and I and I get it, it makes sense to me.

I just hope that that can be looked into for something in the future.

So absolutely.

I mean, that there's um you see naming opportunities within the facility for spaces within the facility.

Um, you know, we could have the Zach Robinson community.

Love the uh Alta Canyon community room.

Uh you know, I joke, but that there's honestly some some wonderful opportunities uh to be able to do some things like that and for recognition of the history of of the building and the facility.

And that's why I'm bringing it up as I know there's still a long way to go with a lot of decisions to be made.

And so I I just wanted to bring it up regarding the name.

The the other thing too, the the just the feedback that I'd provide, and and I feel like I need to do it here, is um other feedback points we have heard from residents is the council has not been involved in this type of conversation with some frequency.

I would recommend strongly that over the course of the project through the calendar year 26 that this update be afforded to the council members because I'm gonna turn into a guy here in just like a couple weeks, and I want to make sure like I want to hear the updates of the project.

I'm no longer gonna have access to you all to sit down in your office and talk details.

Any time no, but what I'm saying is it would be really great to have this with some frequency, and so I would recommend whomever the chairs are moving forward to work with administration to get that on a calendar with some frequency so we have the opportunity to weigh in and and our residents can hear the progress because undoubtedly, you know, this group, the mayor, administration, you all when you're out to lunch, you're gonna get asked questions about the progress of the center.

And so there's a hundred different ways to communicate out.

I don't think we can over-communicate.

I would just I would just suggest having these kind of updates with some regularity in the coming year until the the ribbon is cut.

So thanks for listening to me.

I have been thinking about this a lot today, and so um I just appreciate the opportunity to kind of send that feedback your direction, and that's all I have, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um I'm gonna add my comments really quick because uh Zach kind of touched on some of mine too, and it did have to do with the name and a little bit about the process that we as a council have experienced with this new facility.

Uh, you know, the council is presently the board for the special service district, um, and the council has also been the champion for the last few years of trying to move this forward in in many ways.

Um, it's been very helpful that the administration has decided that this is a project worth pursuing and that we've made some headway because I do believe that it takes all of us, and it's it's a team effort to get something this large off the ground and moving forward.

I appreciate that.

Um, when I when I when I saw the names on the name on this dot on a lot of documents and and stuff coming through recently, I have to say I was a little taken aback that we are calling it something different without any real conversation about what that is, why why um is I see this personally as kind of a placeholder as a working name.

I don't know that I see this as a um permanent name.

Uh again, I would like to understand the process with which we are going to name this facility.

Uh I I too, I understand the the Sandy significance and trying to ensure that our residents feel that this is inclusive of the entire city um and wanting to convey that, you know, personally.

I'd actually like to see us engage the entire community in naming this facility.

Like that's what I would like to see.

So um we do a lot of surveys, we do a lot of outreach.

This has been um a project that has been touted with a lot of outreach.

I'd like to continue that person.

I I'm only one person up here, but I'd like to continue that in some fashion with the community.

Let's bring them in from the beginning with helping, you know, having them help us name this facility.

Um so that's my my proposal, but um, you know, uh council member Robinson uh is right.

I I do think that we need to ensure that we are getting frequent updates um on this project.

This project is a little different than maybe some of the others because of the structure of you know, our government and the d the service district and and who's at the helm of that.

Um, you know, I I I hear council member Robinson say that the council needs to work with the administration, but I think in this way the administration and the mayor need to do a better job of working with the council to make sure that we are included in this process.

You know, there's been some bumps and bruises that have been incredibly unfortunate, and um, you know, in the spirit of camaraderie and turning a new leaf in a new year and new elections, um, I hope that we can do better there.

Um so those are my comments.

Um I'm not going to not continue to have the comment about the name, so maybe there's an opportunity for some thought to be put into it and and something to be proposed that that is more inclusive of the entire body up here and or the city.

Um so I guess I can just leave my comments there for now.

Thank you.

Are there any other comments by council?

Councilmember Stroud?

Board member.

Oh, excuse me.

Board member Stroud, something like that.

Um and and I agree with bringing the community in to work with some of the names.

I mean it it makes it their recreation facility.

Um, and it's not just us telling them something.

You know, oh, same thing, you know, it's just different walls and it's same location, but it does it and it gives us a chance to um market this to the entire city.

Uh it brings some of that buy-in.

Um, you know, I and that's and I think some of it too is is looking at sort of vocabulary.

I mean, you know, a center, you know, I mean, that's versus a complex.

I mean, what we had talked about one of our many times um is having a complex up there, and kind of do.

I mean, that's you've got fields up there, you got a playground, um, you'll have a building, um, and at some point I think we're looking for additional things in that location, you know, versus a center, it's not a you know, uh just one building or one place.

Um, but I do think that buy-in with the community and as much uh feedback that we've heard from people that that don't live in that immediate vicinity, I think that helps bring them along to say this isn't ours, that or this isn't mine, this is ours.

So, you know, that could be something, and it's once again it's a way to to send that out, you know, to the entire city, and another way to say, hey, in 14 months, we're going to have this.

What do you want to call it?

So, you know, I mean that's I think it's a a good idea to look at that.

But we can also stick with SCAR Center too.

So Sandy Community Recreation.

We got it.

SCAR Center.

Thank you.

Are there any other board members?

Council or board member Sharkey.

I'm I'm loving this idea about bringing the community and on naming it.

I think that's a great idea.

Um maybe we limit the name options.

Let's be a little practical here.

Give a short list.

I don't know.

Anyway, I think it would be great.

I mean, our whole idea all along.

I this has been six years, and we're at this culmination of the reality.

My goodness.

Um, and one of the things we've tried to do all along, some of the pushback that we've gotten is it that isn't inclusive.

Some people see it as only being a recenter for part of the city.

And we all decided that that was going to be a part of the past, and we were going to make sure of that.

So it just seems like involving the community would be emblematic of our desire to make sure that everyone knows they're in invited.

This is citywide.

Everyone in Sandy.

And so I am loving the idea.

Thank you.

Thank you, board member Sharkey.

Are there any other comments or questions for this portion of the meeting?

Because we still have to hear from Brian, right?

Yes.

Okay, let's go.

Go ahead.

And I I just wanted to um two points in in answering or in response to this discussion.

First, um, if if a naming process and involvement the community is is where we go, um, that's fine.

I would just ask that uh we we set a time frame and it it does need to move ahead quickly as the building is under construction, and so there are decisions that will uh be made as part of the construction process and ordering materials, so we would need to to move promptly.

Um second, um Thursday mornings, 8 30 a.m.

is when we have been meeting since January.

Um and we've been meeting with our architect.

You're welcome as board members to attend and participate in that um invitation goes forward as as we're moving forward into the construction.

We're now meeting at the um construction trailer on site every Thursday morning with Leighton and BCBO.

And uh as board members, you're more than welcome to come and uh provide input.

And we are still uh more than happy to come back as well and provide formal updates here, but um I would recommend that meeting is where you'll you'll get the the most up-to-date meeting or information, and we'll we'll make sure uh that the commute the construction meetings and minutes they're provided every week by latent construction, and we'll make sure that uh the board receives those as well.

Thank you.

That would actually be very helpful.

And and maybe if there's already a standing um meeting invite, you can send it to us.

Um, you know, having having uh being able to follow up after the meeting, I think it'd be helpful because a lot of um the members up here have other daytime responsibilities that would prevent them from being able to attend.

So we appreciate the offer and and again maybe send that invite over, but following up would be great.

Yeah, and I'll make sure the report is sent each week as well.

Thank you.

Um okay.

Well, we're I think we're okay to move to Brian if you are for sure.

So this is not any.

I mean, you'll see some of the numbers are in more detail here, but this was all part of the carryover numbers we were showing earlier.

Um, just a different way to look at it, and this is looking at it over two fiscal years so far.

So here's the estimated cost page.

So the original construction was a 19 and a half, and then we had the update.

You remember uh Martin and the team coming and also the architect in light in construction coming to you and saying the anticipated costs coming in higher.

So we do have the guaranteed maximum price now, which it updated uh the 3.1 million.

So the total GMP or guaranteed maximum price is 226.

Um right now we're estimating FFE at 250,000.

Uh that likely will be higher than that.

Um, but we'll we'll see how that plays out.

That's still being put together.

Um soft costs, we've got the architect uh 1.267.

So that contract's been underway even last fiscal year started.

So the total costs uh 24.1, and then this is how it's being funded.

So years of savings, our general revenues, we had uh 10.19 million park infact fees um that we just reviewed with the carryover process.

We're adding a total of 2.55 million.

Uh we had 2.6 coming from the 2026 budget, uh, so a subtotal there of 15.3, and then as we look at other funding sources, we have the TRCC grant from 2013, which is the 460,000.

Um, that has been a lot of it's been spent down on the architect and design, and then the new uh TRCC of uh fiscal year 26 that we've just been talking about 3 million, so a total of 3.46 from the county, and then the Larry and Gil Miller Foundation of 2 million.

The balancing number we're using here is the sale of fire station 31, and we had some we had 2.1 in the budget, and we we've added another 125,000 to that to get it up to 3.35 for total.

Uh that brings us to the total 24.16, and we have some excess right now built in there.

And we have some excess right now built in there.

So if we don't need all that, we won't use as much of the fire station 31.

So that'll be our balancing number.

And we also there is some contingency built into the project costs.

So there's some possibility that the total cost doesn't um equate to what we're what we have here as well.

So anyway, any questions on that board members?

Are there any questions?

I have to say it a lot, so I remember has there been any finalization of fire station 31.

Um it's under contract, and the the buying party is doing due diligence right now.

They should complete that the first week of December.

We're hoping if all goes well, then maybe have a closing by the end of December in kind of mid to end December.

Okay.

That was all I had.

If nobody else has anything, then I think we're good there.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Um, I do want to pause briefly and take public comment on this.

Public comment was noticed on the agenda for this um board meeting.

And so if there are any anybody in the room that would like to speak, um I have I see Pat Jones, so please come come down.

You have three minutes to speak on this item, and if anybody else in the room would like to make comment, um please bring a blue card down and then online we'll we'll come to you next.

Good evening.

I didn't come uh to make comments on this particular item, but having heard everything, I just I had the thought.

And three of you councilman women, um the SUSA, Stroud, and Shocky, you beat me to it.

I had the thought that to have the residents to cheer this project onward, and and we all know that in the past years there's been a lot of comments and coming from me as well.

I have to admit that that it's not it's not a center that is really for for that we don't use because it's so far away.

But to get that over that hurdle over, I would really suggest that we open up the naming of that center to the residents.

And I had the thought that um one of you mentioned a short list, but that's what was the thought that I had come up with a few names to suggest and for the residents to pick.

Now, the other the the thing that I I thought about is oftentimes um perhaps it's my fault, but I don't get the information about some meetings going on for Alta Canyon or so.

How do we make sure that the residents they all know that this this decided to open up to the residents that the residents know about it?

How would they make sure that we know about it?

Um, and then the last thing is the operating costs.

Um down the road, you as trustees, a board members.

I assume that you will have a say in the in the uh charges that's going to be you know come up with certain charges for membership fees or for daycare center charges and all that.

Please make sure that the charges are really appropriate ones and not that make it as low as possible so the residents are happy about it, and then people who are in the lower income all.

I don't mean to be you know sound very negative here, but we know that as the we don't want taxpayers to end up having to support that center.

So we let's try to minimize that because taxes that go it always goes up, and sometimes we hear that oh, it's only seven dollars like to sit that the like the um Salt Lake County Council right now.

Is it oh and a 500,000, 550,000 uh house, you only have to pay seven seven dollars a month for a 20% increase.

But after the seven dollars a month, the next increase, the percentage is on on top of the seven dollars, it just goes higher and higher and higher.

So if you could just uh pay a bit of attention to the uh the charges that will be coming out, okay.

And um, thank you.

Thank you very much, Ms.

Jones.

Do you want to quickly address the online of course?

Uh, if you're joining us virtually and you'd like to speak on any uh Alta Canyon special service district business, now's the time.

Go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen.

I'll call your name in the order in which you raised your hand, and you'll have three minutes.

All right, thank you, Mr.

Fratter.

There are no um hands raised, so we'll go ahead and close the public comments and bring it back to the council.

Um I'm ready for a motion unless you have something that you'd like to add first.

I just wanted to make sure that uh the boundary line adjustment doesn't get lost, is after the discussion with the name.

So no problem.

That is exactly where I'm moving.

So I'm gonna go ahead and move that we authorize the chair of the board of trustees to sign and approve the presented boundary line adjustment on behalf of the district as the property owner.

Second.

Thank you.

I have a motion and a second.

Is there any discussion on that?

All right, Miss Edwards, we're ready for a roll call vote.

Ms.

Tesusa, yes.

Mr.

Robinson?

Yes.

Ms.

Houseman?

Yes.

Ms.

Sharkey.

Yes.

Mr.

Meekham.

Yes.

Mr.

DeKaiser.

Yes.

Ms.

Trent.

Yes.

Madam Chair, that motion carried seven to zero.

Thank you, Miss Edwards.

Um, is there anything else that you guys wanted to add as part of your update before we look to adjourn this section of the meeting?

Madam Chair.

Just say if the board wants a schedule of updates, let us know.

We're here to serve.

So we are here at administration's initiative.

And if there's more information or more public hearings or surveys on names, we're here to serve.

And we are here to execute on the board's wishes.

So if more meetings, let us know the schedule and we'll be happy to deliver.

That's fantastic.

Thank you so much.

Okay.

I think that we're ready to close out this item.

So just for the sake of ease, I've got it written down.

Um I will move to adjourn the meeting of the Alta Canyon Recreation Special Service District Board of Trustees and reconvene as a city council meeting.

Second.

Thank you.

I've got a motion and a second.

Um, all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

That motion passes and concludes that agenda item.

Um we are going to go through standing reports quickly so that we can get into the possible closed session.

Um we'll go ahead and start over here with Mr.

Fratto for the agenda planning calendar review.

Uh thank you, madam chair.

I'll go over the agenda uh planning calendar really quickly, and then I do have another update.

Uh so we do have a council meeting next week.

Uh we are planning on having the uh fifth housing workshop, the fifth and final housing workshop next week.

There are some other agenda items on that night, so we may be in for a second longer meeting.

Um so be prepared for that.

But um, we're hoping for a really good discussion in the housing workshop to kind of tie things up.

Um after that, the following two meetings are canceled, one for Thanksgiving and one for our annual holiday dinner and farewell to uh outgoing elected officials.

Um the other update that I have is uh the as you know we had issued an RFP for our upcoming management study of the public utilities department.

We worked with Tom and his staff to make sure we had a good RFP written before we issued it.

Uh we had the uh pre-proposal meeting, uh, a couple of well, maybe it was last week and my dates are getting getting mixed up in my head.

But we had a pre pro pre-proposal meeting with folks who were planning on submitting RFPs, and that went well.

The uh uh deadline passed uh earlier, I guess it was last week.

And uh we have a couple of proposals that have been submitted to us.

Uh Mr.

Sorensen sent those to each of you yesterday.

He also sent them to uh the other folks who are on the selection committee per council policy.

Um in addition, there is a poll that we're asking you to fill out uh to provide us with all of the times that you're available for interviews.

Uh the two dates that we have in mind are the end of next week on Thursday or Friday.

Okay, there's various times throughout the day.

Uh we're gonna try to set it up to get as many folks as possible to be able to attend.

Um, if you cannot attend, we're still in discussions with our purchasing agent and possibly Brian about how if folks who cannot attend the interviews can still uh participate in the scoring because as you saw, there was a scoring document that was sent out along with it.

So between now and the interviews, please fill that out.

We will provide you with an update on uh what the date is as soon as you we give the poll results back, and then we'll go ahead and set a date.

Uh the interviews, obviously, the applicants will be you know attending virtually.

I don't think either of them are local.

Um we'll kind of do it in the same fashion that we did our fire management study uh a couple of years ago when we were selecting uh that firm.

So again, more information to come.

Please fill out the poll.

Please start reviewing the proposals, start scoring them.

You can still score them during the interviews.

We will just want them immediately upon the conclusion of the interviews so that we can unseal the cost proposals at that point in time.

We can't do that until we've finished that portion.

Okay.

Are there any questions for me about that?

Okay.

Fantastic.

That's the end of my report.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Fatter.

We'll jump into council member business and start with Councilmember Robinson.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I I just want to express uh a little bit of gratitude and a couple different things.

Um, and and we've talked a lot about Alta Canyon tonight, so I do want to start there.

Um I was really reflecting on the ribbon cutting the other day.

I thought it was a wonderful um experience uh for you know those of us as a city, but also having so many members of the public there.

I thought that was great.

I did want to say thanks to a couple people.

Uh um councilmember D'Souza, thank you for the opportunity to sub in for you to join Mayor Zoltanski and uh Gail Miller to address the group.

I I really appreciated that.

So I just want to say thank you to you publicly.

Uh Mayor, thanks for the work that you've done on the track component of this conversation.

That's a lot.

Um it there's there's a lot going on there.

There's a lot going on in the county right now.

Um, and the fact that we are coming out ahead of um of that process better.

We're coming out of it better than going into it.

And I just want to express a lot of thanks for your work on that.

I think it's I think it's it's worth noting that that just having you on the board has been really beneficial to Alta Canyon or Sandy.

I'm gonna call it the whatever, we're gonna deal with that in a minute.

But like just having you there has been really appreciated.

I've appreciated your efforts.

Uh the the Miller Foundation being able to donate that money.

I think Councilmember Sharkey, you get a lot of credit for that for opening that door, and and Mr.

Jensen, you pushing that door wide open and getting them through it.

Um that that award probably wouldn't have been uh possible, or it would have been much more difficult to obtain if that work hadn't been done, you know, over a year ago.

And and when you tried to go at that yourself, and then we had Martin come on and and other parts of administration uh dealing with potential funders.

Like, I just want to express appreciation for that decision had a huge impact on the project 18 months later or 12 months later, whatever it is.

So thank you for the work there to both of you.

I think you both need some credit.

And then Dan, finally, from the administrative side, um, this has been something you have been dealing with probably before my time, probably with Scott Earle being your boss with Scott sitting up here.

The fact that you've persevered through it and we kept pushing it, and and I think I can't remember who said it earlier, but we had the pieces aligned wonderfully uh with this version of the council who's been incredibly committed to our capital projects this year.

We've had the right people in the administrative seats, we've had the right people bringing donors to the table, we've had grant funds come in.

I just I was reflecting on the the whole thing on on Friday morning when I was on my way home, and just a lot of people deserve a lot of credit for how far we've come on that project.

So, and then to us, you know.

I I I agree, uh, we've done a lot with capital projects.

This has been one that's been one of the more bumpier ones, but you know, I I need to revise one of my comments uh that I made the other day.

I said, you know, I don't think I never thought we would be standing in this position.

And I look back and I actually call bull on that.

Like I knew we were gonna be there, just given the people that we have in this room right now.

And so I just I just want to pass that along.

A lot of a lot of kudos go to a lot of people, a lot of work has been done on the project.

So please uh take that for what it's worth, but just know that I was reflecting on the last the last little bit.

And then finally, I do want to uh express appreciation for for last night's event, uh, Chief uh with with the fire department.

I thought that was really great.

Um you had my wife bawling like for 20 minutes straight, so blame the Aaron's family on that.

But like it was just really cool.

Um for those of you that weren't there or for the public that's still watching.

Um, there was an introduction of a new life saving award, and the backstory was shared on that introduction of the life saving award.

And it was incredibly emotional.

Um, it's a wonderful story that I think I hope, Ryan.

You know, that could be could be shared.

That video can be shared so people if they want that context can get it.

But just an awesome event last night.

I I really appreciated being there, and I appreciated being there with the introduction of that new award.

Um, I knew Don when I was like two years old.

He was a groomsman in my dad's wedding.

Um, and so like it was just really incredible to see the family there last night and to see like uh the see that legacy live on.

I just uh tip of the cap to you, and whoever came up with that, you know, please please pass that, please pass that along.

And so uh those are my long-winded comments tonight, madam chair, but thank you for allowing me the opportunity to at least express that appreciation to everybody in here.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh yeah, I'm gonna pick up right where Zach left off in terms of last night.

Not only uh with the uh life saving award, but also which uh by the way is on the uh city YouTube uh channel.

So if anyone who's uh paid attention to this, if you don't want to watch that, go to the city's YouTube channel, it's been posted there.

And uh not only that, but also the video about the history of the department.

I thought that was also extremely value to be able to put the context in you know what it happened over the years.

So great job last night, Chief.

Uh very much uh appreciate that.

That was a fantastic evening.

Um the only other thing I want to mention is just uh I want to echo a lot of what our public um residents said uh in our public comment period earlier today.

I'm extremely concerned with uh what happened uh with uh uh undisclosed money in that campaign.

So addressing and tightening up some of our city ordinances to address that and ensure that as the process goes along that there's full disclosure of where the money is coming from to me is of utmost importance.

So thank you.

Uh thank you, madam chair.

Just a couple of updates.

Um I combed through department briefs.

I know I've said this before, but I just like to echo it because it's just one of those things you do to help help us stay informed so that as questions come up, we're able to answer them.

So thank you for department briefs.

Pulled out just a few things I wanted to highlight.

Um, the ready set go wildfire preparedness training.

Speaking of HOAs, we had a whole joy presentation tonight that that's part of the Pepperwood Creek HOA.

I think that's a great example of proactive um partnership-based prevention.

So I just wanted to highlight that, say thank you for for that noting that.

Um, I'm calling this next one kind of a summary.

Infrastructure in motion.

Um, a lot of great updates around Monroe phase six, right?

Nearing completion, 9400 South, the waterline.

Um, I also want to say thank you for rapid response to um a question that came in from a resident around um the construction happening on 13th East.

That's been a little not a little quite troublesome to to residents um in in those surrounding neighborhoods.

Such rapid response, very detailed response.

Um, I was able to arm them with with key information, and it was very, very helpful.

And then just another other thing to note that um our parks and recreation team is constantly thinking about events.

Um, thank you for all that goes into that.

I noted the turkey trot schedule for November 8th, and then the light of the cairns for December 4th.

Um, look forward to those.

Love love it when we have things that bring our residents.

Oh, is it the third?

No, I think that's week.

Oh my goodness, it's the 11th today.

We had a successful turkey truck.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I just combed through looking anyway.

We thank you for the successful turkey trot that was held on November 8th.

Um anyway, I love that we're able to connect and celebrate our community.

Uh the only other thing I had is I I also want to acknowledge the comments that we heard tonight.

And looking through our chamber, there's not really many people left, but I want it on the public record anyway.

Um I thank anyone who participates in our public process and shares their thoughts.

It's clear to me that people in our community care deeply about the selection and about the integrity of those who serve.

I think it's important to stress and remember that there is more than one point of view being expressed in our city right now.

We heard one point of view tonight.

I've heard from many others that were not here tonight, um, that share a different point of view.

So while we heard strong opinions this evening, accusing one candidate of being dishonest.

I think it's important to emphasize there are other residents who have expressed similar concerns about the accuracy of information that has been shared by the mayor throughout this campaign.

Transparency and accountability must run both ways.

If we want to restore trust and unity in Sandy, we have to be willing to hold all of us, hold each other to the same standard, not a single candidate to all candidates to the same standard of honesty, fairness, and respect.

That's how we rebuild confidence in local government, not by amplifying accusations from a single point of view, but by insisting on truth and transparency from everyone.

That's all I have.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

I don't have anything tonight.

Councilmember Strapping?

Thank you, Madam Chair.

So a couple of notes that I've been making.

Yeah, Turkey Trot, it was great.

Zach ran and he was amazing.

You know, cheered him on coming through in the end.

It cheered you on, right?

241 runners.

So I mean, that's it was a beautiful morning.

It wasn't too cold, and it's in third place, Zach.

I think that that is amazing.

Nice job.

You know, in the parks department, you know, that fourth 5K, you know, always enjoy going and you know, and seeing all the residents and how excited they are, and you know, seeing these little tiny kids all the way on up.

So, you know, some of them there were uh we're quite young.

We're quite young.

So that's always fun.

Um, the Alta Canyon groundbreaking, yeah.

You know, I mean, that's uh, you know, here's here's a building that's been there since 1984, you know, and looking at that and seeing that there's nothing but dirt.

Um, and then at the very end, uh architect, somebody showed up one of the builders showed up and they had a sample of uh of the break and then talked about and they said, Oh, yeah, you know, we were kind of talking about how it's just dirt.

Said, you know what, it's gonna look like this, and then it'll, you know, it kind of goes through a couple of phases.

One, could there'll be some footings that'll be put in and it won't look like a lot, and then bam, it'll go up because those walls, you know, it's not too uh complicated of a of a building to put up, and then it'll look like there's nothing happening again, you know, while the all the inside stuff gets finished.

So, you know, but 14 months that's a pretty quick time frame, so you know, looking forward to that.

Uh, you know, and then yeah, the fire department banquet, you know, that's always you know, a highlight of of my year is going and hearing about all of the incredible things that are happening within the department and really appreciated the life saving award and seeing that video as well as the history.

I mean, that's you know, I I I love history and seeing you know where we've come because I think that helps us better plan for where we're headed, and to see uh the passion and to hear that was incredible.

I mean, that's you know, Lincoln's he's he's an amazing historian, so um love that.

Um, you know, right after the Alta Canyon groundbreaking, I was one of the last ones to leave and just kind of asking, you know, hey, well, you know, a couple of employees, you know, what do you guys doing next?

And they were talking about um, you know, headed down to the new 31, whenever we can call it that, you know, and getting that grant.

Um, and I'm sure you know, mayor, you'll probably talk about this as well.

But uh, you know, a 32,000 dollar grant for a special machine that will take care of the gloves, the boots, you know, the the breathing apparatus to decontaminate that after uh being in a fire.

And uh, you know, and talking with uh Chief Bullock, how he was saying, well, with the gloves before, you had to actually wear them and then scrub the outside of the gloves so that the contaminants didn't run down on the inside of the glove.

So um, and I believe that was uh paramedic Smith Whitney who wrote that grant, you know, just uh you know, one of our paramedics to be able to get that, you know, with the Gary Sinise, you know, in the sun belt, you know, um two organizations working together to get that awarded.

So, you know, that's a that's incredible.

Um, we had let's see, a healthy Sandy committee meeting last week, and uh they had the foster care system kind of coming in and talking about care communities and just the need that they have kids in foster care uh here in Sandy and throughout the valley.

Um, and if you know people are able to become part of what they're calling as a care community to surround these families with that support so that these kids don't just continue to churn through families and then uh and and not have a stable environment.

Um they can stay anywhere from you know a few days with a family up to about 18 months, and sometimes even adoption is on with that, but having uh they want to have eight to ten other supporting adults with each family to be able to help out.

Um so that's a especially this time of year, you know, looking at at uh the struggles that that some families and some kids are going through.

So, you know, if anybody's able to you know feel like that they can be a part of one of those care communities, you know, that would be a great start, you know, with the foster care system.

Um and the fire department, I'm sure this may come up as well, you know, with their community connect, you know, program of being able to log in online and give some information about your home.

So if you have pets, um locations of certain things, you know, who's in that home.

Um, you know, I hope that we can get maybe a little more information on that, you know, and maybe present it in a in a council meeting.

Um, you know, what a great idea.

You know, that's you know, being able to move forward with that so that you guys have all the information that you can possibly have on the way to somebody's worst day, you know, at their home.

Um there was uh one alarming thing that was brought up by Canyon School District, and I'm not sure even how, and it's just been sitting on the back of my head.

Um, but uh Miss Edwards with the school district uh mentioned that just this past year we've had five students involved with a homicide, and another one, a sixth student, was a victim of a homicide a week and a half ago, and that student was in the process of being reintegrated to one of our canyon schools.

I don't know how to address that.

Five students that were involved and charged in a homicide.

Not a nice number to end on.

So hopefully we'll be able to put our heads together and figure out what we can do to try to alter that trajectory because that's a pretty scary trajectory.

Um last thing, you know, kind of talking about uh what we had a lot of residents coming in and discussing you know the need to review disclosures, uh there's a lack of it, you know.

This is something, and I think you know, Ms.

Arkey, you talked about when when we brought up that ethical, you know, coming up with a you know a uh another pledge, you know, issue in addition to what the state had.

Um, you know, we we've looked earlier this year, we looked at something and said, okay, as a body, we want to make sure that we are um trustworthy, that we're truthful and that we're forthright with residents and what we do.

And if there's something we need to look at, you know, in the process of disclosure statements, then you know, I challenge the body here.

Let's look at this and let's address it.

Um, I don't know anybody up here who is somebody who said, you know what, nope, I don't want to do that.

That's too difficult, that's too challenging.

Um, let's make sure that we hold ourselves to that high ethical standard so that residents have that full faith.

And if it's something that we need to look at, then let's look at it and let's revise it.

So thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Councilmember DeKaiser.

I just want to congratulate uh Mayor Zoltanski and Chair D'Asouza on their re-elections, and also uh congratulations to Chief Sieverson on his retirement.

That's very exciting news, served our city well for three decades.

So and yeah, on the public comment, I I do think there's some actions the council could take, so we'll be looking into that, and uh I'll be encouraging um expanding the scope of tonight's uh closed session.

Thank you, Councilmember Sharkey.

Thank you, madam chair.

You know, I too want to uh talk about how meaningful the groundbreaking was to me.

Um I appreciate your comments, Mr.

Robinson, about uh my working with the Miller Foundation, and I was lucky enough at that event that they thanked me as well.

The Miller executives credited me and thanked me as well for bringing them in on that opportunity.

So it was uh the whole event, I think was hopefully is meaningful to me.

I mean, you you I know you use the center a lot more than I ever have.

My kids learned to swim there.

I think we all have similar stories to things like that, but I do feel like we got to a really momentous point, not only with that project, but other um capital projects, and I'm really proud of what we've accomplished and what we've done.

The fire banquet reminded me too.

I had a um a constituent reach out to me.

Um a constituent that's in the WUE and is very concerned.

That we have a group of residents who are very concerned about HP 48 and additional costs that may be levied upon them in terms of wildfire mitigation.

Uh they continue to be really concerned about that.

I hope we watch that very closely.

Um, but they did this this resident did call the Sandy Fire Department out to their home to do an assessment, and they are implementing all the changes that the Sandy Fire Department recommended in terms of wildfire mitigation.

So I uh he was very very positive about the experience, and I wanted to pass that along to you.

Um regarding the public comment.

One of the things that was clear to me, I write down every time someone um steps up to the microphone to make a public comment, I write down their name.

None of these people have ever reached out to me.

None to reach out to me to have a discussion, to ask questions, to make comments, to get clarification, nothing.

Um I've never lied about anything, never lied about anything in my campaign.

Never.

Never committed a crime, don't appreciate being accused of any of that.

It's never happened.

Um lying.

Let's talk about this.

The first mailer I ever received on this campaign was not from one mayoral candidate, but two that lied about me and other people.

So I would say if we're gonna look at the the totality of what happened in the election, that is fair.

That is fair.

And I understand the tone, and I do understand that there were other players involved, which is completely allowed by law.

And I don't know that any laws were broken by anybody.

I know none were broken by me.

Um, but I do have concerns too about other players that were involved, uh, laws that were broken, uh, overstepping that was done.

Um you all know that I am the one that authored the Pledge of Fair Campaign practices.

I sign it, I adhered to it.

Not all candidates did, some broke it.

Um, but it's you know, it's a voluntary pledge.

People don't have to abide by it.

They can say they don't choose to or don't want to.

I sure wish that anybody that wanted an explanation would talk to me about it instead of using social media as a way of um airing their accusations.

Um I I wish that there was more dialogue.

I wish I asked people to reach out to me so we could have a discussion.

There was one person here tonight that I asked to do that and they refused.

So I don't know what you're gonna do when you are uh interacting with people who simply want to make accusations but don't want to have a discussion, don't want to have an understanding, and certainly don't want to understand your point of view.

I understand that happens.

People can use whatever criteria they want for voting.

There's no rule about how you vote.

You could throw a dart at a ballot, um, but it would be awfully nice if people would make the attempt to understand instead of making accusations.

Um I appreciate the comments that are made.

Happy to have further discussion about anything.

I know that we are in terms of financial disclosures.

Not only are we compliant with state law, but we're overly so.

Uh I don't know what else we might want to do.

Umside organizations have their own set of requirements that aren't affiliated with ours.

So I don't know whether we have a legal authority to intervene and force others to be compliant with any city laws.

I guess that's a legal question.

Anyway, thank you, Madam Chair.

That's it for me tonight.

I appreciate you.

Thank you, Councilmember Sharkey.

We will go to the mayor's report.

Good evening.

I want to invite everyone, especially all our residents in Historic Sandy to attend the Saturday's Coffee with the Cop, uh, pastries with the pups at 120 West, 9000 South at Ulala Bistro.

It's Saturday for 9 to 11.

Uh, two weeks ago we mentioned that this was being scheduled and how important it is for residents to have a place to come and connect with their friends in law enforcement and community policing.

This is a really valuable outreach opportunity.

Uh if residents uh wish to have a closer relationship with their um patrol officers and historic, uh, know the names and faces of our officers.

This is a great time to do it.

Uh bring the kids, it's a very family-friendly event.

Also, we're looking for volunteers to serve and support our neighborhood watch program in historic Sandy.

Uh, please contact Amy Bryan, our crime prevention coordinator with the Sandy Police.

Her phone number is 801-568-7200, and look forward to seeing everyone this this Saturday.

Uh want to thank Chief Sieverson who uh has proudly served the Sandy Police Department for 30 years.

Such a proud legacy of uh creating a safer, stronger, more modernized Sandy, more skilled police force under his leadership as chief for the past six years.

Uh he will be retiring as of December 26th, so we'll have the opportunity for a proper goodbye, but I just want to share that with the community.

So if you have a chance to reach out to Chief Sieverson and express your appreciation to all he's done for our city.

The uh I could the sentiments of the community recreation center groundbreaking was a momentous occasion, a milestone for our city that has been so long in the planning.

Um it is definitely a team project.

I'm less concerned about getting credit for the project than getting credit, getting the project done.

So it takes all of us uh shoulder to shoulder every year, every town hall, every survey, every public meeting, every presentation.

We are stronger, our community is stronger when you work together.

So who deserves credit?

The people of Sandy deserve the credit.

I'll leave it at that.

Uh the Gary Sinise Foundation generously donated the uh wash dishwashing industrial dishwasher to remove contaminants from firefighters equipment and their air tanks, and it's a perfect um perfect timing to go into our new our new fire station 31 representatives from Sun Belt rentals, they rent uh heavy construction equipment all around the country.

It's so gracious and provided that donation $35,000 uh so that equipment could be purchased for our firefighters, and it won't just be utilized by the firefighters at Station 31, but all of our firefighters will be able to have access to that to clean their equipment, and it's basically looks like an industry industrial dishwasher.

So they also um sprung for lunch for all of the firefighters and paramedics.

So our thanks to the community partners like Sunbelt and the Gary Sinise Foundation.

Today being Veterans Day, we honor all of our veterans who have served, and of course, those who've paid the ultimate sacrifice in defending our freedoms.

I um had the pleasure of joining the Quail Hollow Elementary community this morning with Deputy Mayor Kim Bell and PIO Susan Wood for music and the honoring of family members and community members, and uh the principal himself, a proud veteran, and sharing uh with the children proper flag etiquette and uh reverence for even how they entered the assembly.

It was so precious to see the youngest children show such great respect to our veterans.

Great role modeling happening at Quail Hollow from the teachers, the parents, the community, and then later today at Sunrise Elementary.

Um big energy for ground proud musical performance supported again by parents, community members, family members, a wall honoring veterans from the Sunrise Elementary family, all who served in the armed forces and those performances.

I wish they could just be live streamed.

They they're so powerful, especially to hear the children raise their voices in pride and unity for all we treasure as Americans.

Finally, wanted to congratulate all the candidates for running and congratulate um Councilmember D'SUSA, uh, incoming council member elect Bert Christensen, incoming council member elect Chris Nickel, who will be joining uh this city council in January.

I look forward to continued service with each of you and look forward to being joined by the new members of the council working each day for the betterment of our community, and it is a very deep and serious responsibility and great honor that I embrace the challenges of the next four years and working in full collaboration and teamwork with elected officials, city council, staff at every level, our business partners, and of course uh honoring the trust of our residents.

So thank you all for this opportunity.

The election results are not yet certified, they won't be until the board of canvassers meets and votes next week.

We'll be official, but I don't expect uh the results will change and the people have spoken.

So thank you.

Thank you, Mayor.

And yes, I've kind of waited wanting to wait until everything is totally final understanding that yes, votes probably won't change, but um, also offering congratulations to you and to the other council members that won their elections or seem to have won their elections at this point.

Um we will go to the um Shane Pace for the CAO report.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I just have two um two other events you might not be aware of.

This Thursday, there's a news conference with uh UDOT, Sandy City, and Cottonwood Heights for the annual um tire tire sticker program.

Um thank you.

Um that'll be at uh at the state's shops at 10 a.m.

Thursday.

So we'd have it some time, that'd be great.

The second thing is uh on the 14th at River Oaks is uh a kickoff.

Uh it's already kicked off, but it's a it's a second kickoff for the food and clothing drive that's going on.

You see in the boxes and already here in City Hall, they're putting them down at the River Oaks also, and they're holding an event there for that that will include free photos with Santa Santa and some and some other things, and that'll be from three to six PM on the 14th.

So thank you.

That's all I have.

All right, thank you, Mr.

Pace.

So that brings us to the very bottom, which is our closed session.

Um I'm going to make an an item that we move into closed session to discuss the purchase, exchange, or lease of real property, and to discuss the deployment of security personnel devices or systems.

This will be held in the council conference room here at City Hall.

Second.

Thank you.

Motion and a second.

Is there any discussion on that?

I'd like to make a friendly amendment to expand the scope to include the character competency of an individual.

Uh yeah, I mean you're expanding it to discuss security devices.

You can certainly do that if you'd like to.

Uh you as the maker of the motion, you have the option to say whether or not you accept the friendly amendment.

Well, I mean, I don't want to I think I'd like this is kind of a sprung moment.

So I don't know that I know what this is about.

How do we all feel?

I'm looking for council.

I'm gonna leave my motion as is right now, but that's something that we could potentially put on the future agenda.

And madam chair, just to add to that.

So uh that means you would vote on the motion and the council members vote against it, then another motion could be made.

Yeah, okay.

Who seconded and is there still are we still good on the second?

I seconded.

Okay.

Um let's go to a roll call vote.

As is.

Thank you, madam chair.

Um Ms.

D'Souza.

Yes.

Mr.

Meekham?

Yes.

Mr.

DeKaiser.

Yes.

Ms.

Stroud, yes.

Mr.

Robinson?

Yes.

Ms.

Houseman.

Yes.

Ms.

Sharkey.

Yes.

Madam Chair, that motion carried seven to zero.

All right, thank you.

Uh we will go ahead and chair.

Yes, go ahead.

May we include Brian Kelly, Dan Nelson, and Kim Bell into the closed door session, please.

Yes, thank you.

I think no, no, no.

Okay.

And then if for some reason they say the city, I'll just reject the city.

And we'll just we'll just spread this.

Yeah.

Thanks.

All right.

So I'll just do that.