Okay, are we ready, Mike?

Anybody gonna be speeches on what you watched in recent years?

Ron gave his speech when he volunteered for the committee for the Christmas committee.

Recording in progress.

Okay, we'd like to welcome everyone out to uh the planning commission meeting this evening at today's uh commission meeting uh for December 4th uh 2025.

Welcome all those who are here in attendance with us as well as anyone who may be online as well.

And uh um we will begin with a pledge allegiance if you could all stand and uh say the pledge of allegiance with me.

Okay, so my name is Dave Bromley, and I will be chairing the meeting this evening, and uh we will introduce the planning commission members here first, and we'll begin to my left here with Craig.

Craig Kitcherman, Lynny Stavenport, uh Danny Schoenfeld, Ron Mortimer, Steve Brickley, Cameron Duncan, and uh James, if you could introduce staff.

Okay, my name is James Sornson on the community development director.

We have Darien Alcorn, senior civil attorney with the city, uh Mike Wilcox, Planning Director, Doug Wilwright Development Services Manager, Travis Ackerman is here with us, he is assistant city engineer.

And got that right, right?

And we got Brittany Ward is the public works assistant director, and I just want to recognize Jennifer George as a planning commissioner with us tonight as well.

And Aish over here is the planning secretary.

Oh, where's Ivan?

Oh, sorry, he was sitting back there.

Um got Ivan Cooper is the transportation engineer.

Sorry.

Okay.

Thank you, James.

All right, to uh kind of let everybody know um how the meeting will go this evening.

We will have for each of the uh each of the items on the agenda.

Um we'll have uh our planning director, Mike Wilcox will provide an uh introduction of the item afterwards.

Uh the uh developer or the app the applicant uh will have the opportunity to address uh their item.

And then um there'll be a staff presentation after which uh we'll open up the discussion to any public comment that uh would like to be made.

Um if you are in attendance here, if you could come to the podium and then um we would invite you to uh first state your name and address, and then you would be be provided uh two minutes uh comment, and then if there's other like a speak on the same topic, then if you could also come to there, state your name and address and um if you could just focus on items that had not been addressed by previous uh commenters, that would be appreciated.

Um after we've heard uh public comment, we will then uh close to public comment and uh and then open it up for planning commission uh deliberation and motions.

So we'll begin the first item, which is the amendment to title 21 of the land development code, uh, as it relates to the Automall zone land use matrix.

And Mike.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh this first item is a staff initiated code amendment.

Uh which involves um the uh some amendments to the land use matrix or land use table uh for the automal zoning district uh within the automal zone district, uh which is roughly bounded by um 106 south on the north end, 110th south on on the south end, and then the freeway and state street is roughly where that's located.

Um there are two subdistricts within that area.

One is for the Automall uh dealership area, and then the other is for a Automall commercial area.

And within the matrix, there are different land uses for each of those different uh subdistricts within that area of the city.

Um and as part of the city's review of this area, um it came to our attention from the Auto Mall itself that it allows for currently for certain land uses that are not congruent with the purpose of the Automall zone, especially the the sub dealership area.

Um and so there are certain land uses that don't help establish or or ensure that only dealerships can be located within that area.

So this has been supported and reviewed by the Automall Dealers Association, and they've uh included their letter of support of the city's action on this particular item, and that's included in exhibit C.

So the intent of this uh proposed amendment will uh hopefully help strengthen the Southtown Automall area, uh put uh the land use matrix in better alignment with the purpose uh and um of establishing this Automall area in the city and restrict certain uses that are currently allowed to only be allowed either as in conjunction with the dealership or not allowed at all anymore in that in that area.

So this kind of gives a little bit of a summary of what this uh the effect of this proposed amendment would do within the automal dealership subdistrict.

So these uh listed uses would be allowed if they are done in conjunction with a dealership's operations as ancillary to the primary use of selling automobile automobiles and operating uh a dealership.

And then these are uses that are currently either permitted or conditional in that same um district, the subdistrict of the dealership area, which we feel would be better uh located in other areas of the city and not allowed to be located in this particular area.

So with that, um staff has proposed those amendments that are shown in exhibit A as the red line version in your staff reports, as well as a clean version of what that would look like at the as a final product in exhibit B.

If there are any questions, you're um welcome to answer anything that uh the planning commission has.

Uh if there are no questions, uh staff would uh recommend that the planning commission forward a positive recommendation to the city council to adopt this proposed code amendment that's found in the staff report and shown in the exhibits.

Okay, thank you, Mike.

Um and is there any questions that uh any commissioners have of staff?

Okay, um and uh nothing else from from you, right?

Okay, all right.

So uh thank you, Mike.

And uh this item was uh this is this is open to public comment.

So if you have a comment on this item, if you could come forward to the podium.

Seeing none here, Mike is are there any online?

If you are joining us via Zoom webinar and would like to speak to this particular item, please use the raise your hand feature now, and we'll address you one at a time.

I am seeing no hands raised.

Okay.

All right, so we'll close this to public comment and open it up uh to any uh public to planning commission deliberation and and a motion.

Mr.

Chair, I'm ready to make a motion.

Thank you.

Uh I move that the planning commission forward a positive recommendation to the city council to amend Title 21 of the Sandy Municipal Code relating to the land uses within the Automall zone district based upon the four findings of a staff report.

I'll second Lenise Davenport, yes, Cameron Duncan, yes, Ron Mortimer, yes, Danny Schoenfeld, yes, Steve Wrigley, yes, Craig Kitterman, yes, Dave Bromley, yes.

This motion carries all right.

Uh so we will move on to the next item, which is the the uh Smith Entertainment Group and uh the west facade of the uh structure there at the mall and uh Mike.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh this next item is uh been presented by the Smith Entertainment Group.

Uh they are requesting a further review of the architectural west facade uh remodel of their proposed uh uh re rehabilitation and reuse of the Macy's former Macy's building that's on the south end of the mall.

Yes, shown here on the on the map in that affected area of the portion of the mall.

Um this is um a building that was started uh in its redevelopment with the addition of the practice facility for the hockey, and uh they are further uh rehabbing and um expanding the use of that uh portion of the mall to include uh office use and other things for the SEG group.

Uh I believe the applicant is here and can make it for the presentation on the request.

Hello, uh my name's Rob Cottle.

I'm principal architect with Babcock Design Group, uh representing Smith Entertainment Group and the design team.

Um as Mike said, uh this is the what we're calling phase three, which is really the intermediate step or the next phase of development for the Smith Entertainment Group uh property at Southtown Mall, starting first with the practice facility for the Utah Mammoth.

Um this uh part that we're here for approval on today is the removal of the west facade of the Macy's building, just basically 50-foot tall brick wall, and replacing that with new uh a new elevation that's much more in line with what you would consider to be like class A office space because really the intent is to provide uh the space that this will serve primarily is for the uh the SEG uh administrative functions uh Smith Entertainment Group is centralizing all of their operations, all of their support and all their employees to this location to be really their hub along with uh the practice facility uh for the mammoth and along also with the upcoming jazz practice facility.

So we're here today really for the approval on that elevation, and uh our hope is that uh what has been presented previously to uh the architectural review committee and the city uh is uh able to be approved today.

Thank you.

Okay, so Doug, do you have some you would like to add as well?

Okay, so we did visit this site today on our field trip just to help orient people to uh to this.

So this is the former Macy's building, 100,000 square feet on two levels.

It's been vacant for a number of years.

This is the ice box facility.

Oh just died on the that's the ice box facility, and then there's a connecting that triangular shape is a connecting, and that's all pretty much finished.

Uh the next as Mike mentioned, and as Rob mentioned, the next phase is the west face of the building.

Um like the advance through some of these.

So this is what it will look like over here on the right side is the ice box and the transitional corner entry.

That facility that Mike's pointing to right now is called a pylon, and it actually goes above the otherwise horizontal uh top of the parapet for all the building.

Um then right on that corner right there, that will be the uh on the main floor, that will be the uh pro shop uh for souvenirs and uniforms and that kind of stuff, and then going north from there along the face.

We've got the existing entrance in the middle that will become the main office entrance for the SEG employees, um, and then further north on the corner.

They're uh putting a conference room there with some emphasis uh material.

You can see that you've got a row of columns, um, the overhanging parapet, which is also on the other part of the development, and um the kind of the tan color is uh architectural, it's an aluminum screen that will be uh located hanging in front of the windows, and you can see it on the bottom down here on the materials exhibit, and that will reduce the solar uh energy entering the what that west facing side of the building.

I think in about half, half or more of the solar uh you'd still be able to see in and out, but it'll be screened and and reduced.

So this did go to the architectural review committee.

Um they looked at it and discussed it.

Um they ended up making a recommendation that this view that you're seeing here be approved.

Um that was a unanimous recommendation, so I'm happy to answer any questions.

Um maybe I'll go to this next slide here.

That's the materials.

Um the wood grain, it's a metal, but it's wood grain, that's basically the soffit material in the overhang.

And it also comes down in in some places uh on the building.

And then uh you've got your two two different colors of architectural metal panel.

Um and then you've got some on the bottom there that's uh that's supposed to be the stone, which you can see again on this, and that's the stone is currently going up on that pylon that is the main entrance uh to the facility.

It was wrapped in plastic, keep it warm, but when we went by there, but they're about halfway up with the with the rock.

And so are there any questions?

Questions just uh on the window screens, are those razable and do you go up and down?

It looks like they might be in here, or that's a fixed screen.

No, they're fixed.

They're fixed.

Okay.

That that's right, isn't it?

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

And they're set out from the build from the windows at distance, right?

Yeah, it's a it's just a passive solar screen that sits out proud of the windows to to help with that west solar gain that you get mo primarily in the summertime.

Uh the glass will also have uh lowy coatings on it to deal with it as well, but it's just uh another feature to help with that um intense west sun that you get during the summertime.

Yeah, sounds like a great idea.

Just the drawings look like they're gonna go up and down, so okay, I can understood any other questions?

No, thank you.

Thank you.

Any other questions of applicant door?

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Um this uh has been um open this has been noticed the public, and then so is there anybody here that would like to speak to this item?

Come on to the pulpit here.

Is it your name and address?

I think you know the uh the story here.

Good evening.

Planning commission Steve Van Marin, one four one seven eight South Bangder Parkway, uh suite 207.

It's it's interesting to me that the top picture in that display catches the hallway of this the uh shopping center outside of Macy's, and that would be a good articulation of the roof to put a peak right there above the entrance.

Uh that wouldn't take a lot, it wouldn't have any depth to it, I imagine, but there's a lot of places doing facade remodels like that.

Just a suggestion if you don't want to quite follow the recommendation.

Thank you.

Okay, thanks, Steve.

Is anybody else here that'd like to comment?

Okay, Mike, anybody online?

If you're joining us via Zoom webinar and would like to speak to this particular item, please use the raise your hand feature now, and we'll address you one at a time.

I am seeing no hands raised okay, thank you.

And then we'll close this to public item to public comment uh now at this time, and uh open this up to Planning Commission for some deliberation comments, um motion.

I just want to make a comment.

Um I appreciate the work they're going.

I think this is gonna look really good.

Danny, I know you were involved in the and thank you for your time and your efforts.

I don't know if you want to address anything with that, but I do appreciate and I do miss not hearing the the soft lexicon circle address, Steve's that just rolled off the tongue so much better, but I'm glad you're here.

Thank you.

I'm done.

No, I was gonna say the architectural review committee had a couple of comments, but overall it was a really well thought out design, and we all thought it was uh something we should move forward with and recommend yeah, thanks.

Okay, yeah, thanks.

And uh I think there is some discussion that has been had about uh the the roof line.

I I think this looks great though.

I I I think it's they've done a great job.

It's gonna uh be a great um modification to the area.

So that's that's my my viewpoint.

But I think you had a did you have a comment or question or I just had I I guess Steve the part to the right's already been built, we're just dealing with the part to the left down here at the bottom part, correct?

So that's correct.

Well, so it's just that one off to the left, is what we're doing with and Cameron.

Did you have something?

Yeah, I I think it looks great.

I mean, compared to that that block wall, this is phenomenal.

Um I I do I do think it it would be nice with the whole theme of the mountain basketball that the Jazz are going with and the Cairns district to have a little pop-up on that roof, even if it's over that center.

I I know that they were trying to downplay that because that's not necessarily a public entrance.

Um I don't know that I'm gonna vote no because of that either.

I think it looks awesome.

Yeah, um I I looking at it, I think there's there's a lot of for a good long flat space, there's a lot of breakup on there.

It is and so um you know, I think there's a lot of it provides a lot of interest on um architectural interest, I think, on what they've done there.

Um but uh are we ready for motion?

We'd like to make one.

I'll I move that the staff or or the planning commission approve the modified site plan and building architectural design colors and materials for the Smith Entertainment Group redevelopment phase three West Facade modified uh review for the property located at 1045 South State Street based on the three findings and uh five conditions.

I'll suck it that sorry, who was the second?

I'll second it.

Steve Danny Schoenfeld, yes, Steve Wrigley, yes, Cameron Duncan, yes, Ron Mortimer, yes, Lenise Davenport, yes, Craig Kitterman, yes, Dave Bromley, yes.

This motion carries.

Okay, good luck.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Okay, so we have some related items over the next four.

Um it's the Silver Sage Business Park 2 Office Site Plan Review, and then also Silver Sage Park Business uh the subdivision amendment.

Um do you plan on addressing these together?

How do you do are you gonna do all four?

How are you gonna do this?

Yeah, thanks for asking.

Good question.

Um, what we propose to do is to discuss the first two items of this site, uh, both the Silver Sage Business Park site plan and subdivision amendment.

Okay, and then we'll move to the middle mile and site plan and conditional use.

And kind of break those two, those four items that are somewhat related into pairs, okay.

Two motions and then two motions.

Correct.

Okay, and we'll have a presentation on on each pair.

Okay, great.

All right, we'll take us off then, Mark.

Mike.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh so the first two items uh regarding this particular site um at 10895 and 10935 South 700 East as shown on the map and highlighted in the location as to these two properties.

Uh the proposal um is brought to us by the applicant Kyle Spencer and Scott Bunnell of uh Navigate Private Wealth and Northern Engineering.

They are requesting a preliminary site plan review for a new office building on this particular site, as well as a preliminary subdivision plat uh review to consolidate two existing commercial lots into one and then allow for that building to be placed on that property.

I believe the applicant is here and can present on both of those requests uh now, and then uh Doug will follow up with his uh analysis and recommendation.

Do you have other other pictures too on this?

Yeah, all right.

Oh you can run the show.

I'll do that.

I'll do the talking.

My name is Scott Varnell, and I'm the managing principal of Navigate Land and Navigate Private Wealth.

And uh what we're proposing to do is to build an office building on these two sites.

So there's there's the north side on the left, south side on the right, and we want to combine the two sites for a couple reasons.

One, those are as you're aware, fairly unusual size and shape.

That's why they've been a weed patch for a long time.

And so, in order for it to make any economic sense for us to be able to build on there, we need to have room for parking, which would require building, you know, a little over, I think it's about 6800 square feet to have enough office space to cover the load on that, and then have room for parking.

We need to have them one lot for a couple of reasons.

So that we they have to have over 51% of the lot.

And if we did just one lot, one there's not enough parking, and two, the south wouldn't have enough percentage to be on our loan.

So we need to combine the two into one lot.

The other thing that makes this a viable project is middle mile and AECOM are going to put this little utility thing that we can go into a little bit of detail.

They're also online, they can talk more about it.

But they're going to do an easement agreement with us, which gives us an upfront dollar amount to make it worth buying that extra south lot.

So just odd things came together at the right time.

The square footage we could work out, the parking we could foot out or make work as well as the financing due to that up front.

Um easement lease.

So anyway, so the idea here is we're financial advisors.

Our office right now is at uh 12012 south 700 east, so just a mile or so south of that.

Um we've been in business for since uh May 1st, 2014, and prior to that with another large firm that we broke off from.

So uh we also own uh an accounting firm, and so we'll have the accountants in there, financial advisors, and then we'll plan to bring on an attorney also so you can get all your financial needs done with us in one place.

That's the vision.

Um what else you need to know?

Um you want to look at the building or anything like that?

It's just the site is all we're worried about here.

No, there's the building.

Fairly straightforward building.

You walk in, got the uh lobby area on the right there.

You can see restrooms and drinking fountain, and you go straight through past the receptions, you go to a conference room.

On the left would be most of the advisors.

We'll have a couple of uh for open offices that we want to sublease and then go downstairs to the basement where we needed another 3,000 square feet so that we could have enough parking.

So that's the main thing behind that.

That'll be a storage facility for anything we need.

Um, and then on the right would be more the uh CPAs and attorney.

Uh, this is what it looks like from the outside.

Um the idea behind this is to blend into the neighborhood somewhat, but look a little different.

Our we don't want it to look like a nursing home or a used car dealership, so a little bit different, but stay within the 4-8 roof and all that kind of stuff and the 30-foot height.

So uh some depth, some color, uh, fairly modern, but not super modern.

This is the back of it, it'll be along the trail there.

Uh you can see the conference room is in the middle, and then again the office is built out to the sides, and then above the office is a flat area that will put some of the uh AC stuff and heating.

You'll see the sides are a little bit asymmetrical again.

That makes it look a little more grand in the front.

We still meet all the requirements and gives a little more texture for the neighborhood.

Um, and then again you see the two sites being put together.

Uh wheel maintain the property.

Um and middle mile will pay for their utilities and their water usage and all that stuff on the south lot, the 10935 and the 10895.

We'll take care of all the utilities and everything on that piece.

We'll maintain again all of the uh we won't have any grass, we'll have lots of plants and things around.

We'll maintain all the landscaping and the snow removal, all that kind of stuff.

They won't have any of that.

They'll have a large fence around there.

Uh they've gone several times.

They've looked at that to make it kind of blend in and be decorative, and then in front of that area, we'll put some trees and things to make it blend in and not you know look like a utility company's.

Um what else, Doug?

Do we need to talk about?

Is that enough?

Any questions about that?

Have you guys seen it?

Is this the first time you've seen it?

Okay, all right.

No, we appreciate uh Doug and Mike and all their help, and uh yeah, hope you approve it so we can get going on it in the next month or two.

Thanks.

Thank you.

And then Doug, did you have anything else?

No, I I uh so the second part will will deal with the site, the utility site, but this shows the context, and um it was a staff suggestion that we require the landscaping to be maintained by the landlord uh around the utility station because we know how good utility companies are at landscaping our sites.

So quality materials that meets our architectural design requirements of both the city architect architectural design standards, and also the there's some architectural design requirements with the zone.

This is an SD zone, a special development zone that was created just for this subdivision area.

Um so it meets those requirements.

Um we did mention the staff report that they've got a couple extra parking stalls, um, but we we've got a two ways to deal with that.

Um that won't require the planning commission's further action.

So any questions.

Doesn't look like it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

Uh thank you for those presentations.

We'll open this up to uh public for any comment.

Is there anybody here?

State your name and address.

Ryan Fowler, the uh the resident at 10908 Savannah Drive, which is 410 parcel there.

Whoever's managing their cursor.

Appreciate that.

Um I'd like to echo Mr.

Bunnell's sentiments on the weed lot as it has been that ever since we've gotten there, sometimes to varying levels of weeds, and it's nice to be getting it developed.

So very glad to be seeing that.

And actually, the topic that I have at hand has to do with the reason we didn't like the weed lot.

It really wasn't the weeds or the mice, it was the noise.

The noise from the street 700 east there is pretty tremendous, and we've been looking forward to developing the that back lot just to have some sort of a sound block.

Unfortunately, we're not talking about an apartment community, which I'm probably the only person in the room that would actually want an apartment community there, but it is for the sound block.

The road there is concrete, and the other side of the road, which is to the west of what we're showing here, so on the bottom end, has a sound barrier in place, which acts as an echo chamber for us, and we get a lot of noise.

So when I reviewed the plan, I was really excited to see that.

Except that as you can tell, Mr.

Bunnell's building is immediately behind my neighbor and not behind me.

So my comment today is to see if the if there's been any contemplation or if there's any willingness to address the noise issue.

Um, presumably at one time when the noise barriers were put in place.

The owner of the property at the time opted out of the noise barrier, probably because it was commercial, and as such, I get a lot of it.

So that's my comment.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Is anybody else here?

Okay, seeing none, Mike.

If if you are joining us via Zoom webinar and would like to speak to this particular item, please use your the raise your hand feature now, and we'll address you one at a time.

I am seeing no hands raised.

Okay.

Um I would like to come as a private residence.

My name is Travis Ackerman.

I live at 828 East Savannah Drive, which is just a few houses down from here.

Um we are grateful that we have the trail behind the house.

That has been in a really nice feature that's been added.

Uh I will just echo Ryan Fowler's comment that this section of trail is really loud.

Like I can't even talk to my wife when we're walking down this section of trail.

Um the noise has has been a big issue.

The city has a requirement that there be a 15-foot landscape buffer in front of the parking.

And I feel as a resident that that would be better served if we had a 15-foot landscape buffer at the back of the property, and a requirement that they have tall evergreen trees, like the property that's just north of this, and like the fire station that's just north of this.

They have a variable forest behind their property that acts as a sound buffer.

Um, and so I would ask that we consider a variance to that ordinance so that the residents and the trail users can have a little bit of peace and quiet.

Okay, thanks, Travis.

Okay, so we will uh close this to public comment now, and then uh maybe first off uh Doug, if you could get up and maybe talk a little bit about uh the any sound related issues um yes, I intended to discuss the sound issue with the second set of staff reports.

Okay, um so yes, it's true there's no sound barrier wall because it's not residential property.

That was I wasn't here at the time when that was done, but I believe that was a U dot uh decision, and that U dot paid for the noise buffer walls uh where the highway was adjacent to the rear of residential properties, so and is that issue applicable only to the second set of items on the agenda, or is it also the mitigation of noise is relative to the second set?

I I think what Doug's referring to is sound mitigation that's coming from the site itself is being addressed in item the in the second part or the middle mile.

But um I think the the impact that they're discussing is not coming from the site itself, it's from the the adjacent roads.

So anything we do on the site to add buildings or landscaping or walls is going to help is it going to eliminate it?

No.

Is it still gonna be loud?

Yes.

Um but it's nothing that this site is doing, nothing that the development of this site is uh hampering.

Okay, and maybe maybe just review where there is so we can see the building uh where there is wall, and then where the wrought iron fence would be I'm sorry, I lost my pointer, so if you could so you see the white area there on the right, the extreme right of the site.

That is the middle mile.

Oh, this yeah, there on the south side of the mile.

And so what we have proposed there is uh well when we went to the neighborhood meeting, which this gentleman was a participant in that meeting, the issue of noise was raised.

Um initially, middle mile had uh proposed a eight-foot trex fence on the east side of the site, and then um well, actually, they were it was corralling.

Let me back up.

They had initially proposed a wrought iron fence around the white area, um, so that would allow some view into the into the site for you know, crime prevention and that kind of thing, but it's also a negative in that you're gonna view these otherwise utility buildings and no landscaping on the white area.

Um so we talked about that after the public hearing, and what we ended up with uh suggesting, and they accepted was that eight-foot masonry wall on the east, the northeast, and the south sides of the white area, and then uh the chain or the wrought iron fence only on the wide.

Show that with your cursor, yeah.

So from the gate around and all along the south.

Okay, that's the east, and then along yeah, to there, and then on the south side, all the way the whole south side.

That's your eight-foot masonry, and then the wrought iron is in the northeast.

There's a gate, northeast, and the west side would be the wrought iron.

So that and then the uh utility structures are about 14 feet high.

Um, and then we did suggest increasing the landscape but uh the landscaping with evergreen trees um mixed into the mix on between the detention pond and the fence on the west side of the site.

So that's um we we can't do a noise barrier wall along the trail because we don't we don't want that.

Uh it's not consistent with what we've done both to the north and south within this with the three-rail fence and the masonry columns, so um I I think it's also nice that um the trail users will will have some views across the parking lots and between the walls and that of the street to kind of give it some context.

Um what is the existing the the landscape plan then for the the center parking lot and the east side of the center parking lot the we can go to the landscape plan and did you say you're it's being modified, or is it gonna be as per the landscape plan that they're pulling up?

It should be there, right?

It's not real visible, but there we go.

This is the landscape plan here.

Yeah, that one doesn't show that area, does it?

So this is the north side, the north side.

So there's this first pod of parking, they're showing deciduous trees along this back edge, street trees here, and then this is that retention area, uh that second pod of parking and along here.

Yeah, this landscape plan hasn't been updated with the revised um site plan.

So the detention pond for the middle mile is actually uh uh between the street and the fenced in area, and then you can see that row of trees that's been uh added there along the the wrought iron fence portion.

So the we don't require grass for landscaping anymore, so they can have mulch uh stone mulch or bark mulch.

We do require trees and we do require uh a 33% at maturity ground cover with low low plants over the mulch.

So that's what's being shown there is all of the plantings that main near ground level.

One thing uh that I'm not seeing in this is uh any evergreen trees.

Um and there is a requirement to have um a 6040 split in the in the amount of uh trees that they're providing.

So that's something that we can work with them at final, and you could provide a condition that that and uh requires that those evergreen trees are placed along that edge um along that westerly or sorry, easterly edge.

Um and that's something we could work through in the in the final review of the of the site.

Yeah, we we've had to balance the um policing aspect of being of the police being able to see into the utility site through the wrought iron.

We have to balance that against you know, trying to screen it so it doesn't look as bad, and and we're doing that with the architectural treatment of the buildings to make them look more residential in character.

Um but I I think I think we're everyone's done the best they can with this site, and it is extremely difficult.

Okay, okay.

Any other go ahead?

I also have a landscaping related question, which really gets it.

So there was this recommendation to possibly move the building a little bit further.

I think if I'm understanding the recommendation a little bit further west to add more of the landscaping buffer to the east.

Is that something that's possible?

Or or are we or is it just to add additional trees on the east side?

In other words, could you do more landscaping on the east side without reorienting the building?

And or could we also reorient the building?

Does that make sense?

I'm not sure that the building would the building's gonna provide sound barrier already.

I so you're talking about the office building or the uh mile.

The building, the building, yeah, the middle, the building itself.

I I think Travis was talking about the parking lot that's between the the two of them there, the one that's on the bottom of that right-hand side.

If there is a way to take that front yard setback between those, I can't see how many stalls are there, four stalls, and pull that parking forward so you could have more landscaping at the detention pond in the back to provide a buffer further back.

And I don't know that you can because you need a certain amount of throat to get your car to pull out without blocking all the other cars, but um, I I think if some of those trees on that east side in that detention area were evergreen trees, I think that would go to what Ryan was asking about.

Okay, yeah.

And so if that if these uh were modified, if the uh reports were modified, where would that be added?

Just an additional condition, the which one under the site plan the first motion.

First motion, yes.

All right.

And is whoever is making a motion, maybe see if you feel comfortable about adding that in there because I sounds like there's some good traction with that.

Mr.

Chair?

Yes.

There's really not a way to not have the landscape front yard set back along the street.

Yeah, okay.

I don't think we were talking about that.

I think we're just talking about the evergreen aspect of it in uh east of east of that parking lot that is adjacent to the middle mile.

Also, parking is critical.

So easy to come down here.

And to the mic.

Yeah.

We we've looked at all kinds of things on this, obviously.

We're wanting to be sensitive to the neighbors and whatnot.

And if we need to put evergreen on the east side of those parking, fine, and then the other so we can kind of see throughout the building.

We'll find out that.

But as far as you know, the parking goes, we've done everything we can to maximize that.

You can see there's all kinds of stuff in there.

We have to fully staffed, we have 27 people in there.

And we can have client parking too.

And we built we're spending 200,000 on a basement to get parking.

And so it's there's just a lot of restrictions.

So we we've done what we can.

And the other thing you didn't realize there's some texture on the sides of those buildings, and I think one of the reasons there's so much noise now is because of the echo between the flatness of the apartments and all that kind of stuff.

So we break some of that up.

I think it'll help quite a bit, but I'm sure there'll still be noise and whatever.

But that would be shrubs along the bottom too that kind of help.

Yeah, you know, so I I think we're doing what we can.

With your building, with your fences, with the uh landscape.

I think those things combined will definitely assist.

And I think that we are favorable of trying to make sure there's some evergreens on the east of that.

We're fine, yeah.

Whatever the covenants are, we're fine.

Yeah, if you're parking, we we just can't.

We we just gave up like four more parking spaces because they had to have a crew or something.

I mean it's just it just sucks up parking like crazy.

So we just can't do it.

Given the whole thing becomes unfeasible.

So thanks.

Thank you.

Okay, any other comments?

We're ready for motion.

I'll take a crack at it.

Okay.

All right, I make a motion that the planning commission approve the proposed the proposed Silver Sage Business Park 2.

Navigate Pro the Wealth Office Building.

Preliminary site plan review located at 10895 South 700 East, is disguised described in the staff report and based on the two findings and five conditions, with the addition of a sixth condition that the trees on the east side of the south parking lot be revised to evergreen to help mitigate the noise from 700 east.

So evergreens within the 6040.

6040 split split.

Yeah.

Is that good, Mike?

Or you got I would just say along the both parking lots, not just the south.

That's fair.

Okay, I'll amend that to be both parking lots on the east side of both parking lots.

Okay, do we have a second?

I'll second.

Cameron Duncan?

Yes.

Danny Schoenfeld?

Yes.

Ron Mortimer.

Yes.

Steve Wrigley?

Yes.

Lenise Davenport, yes.

Craig Kitterman?

Yes.

Dave Romley?

Yes.

This motion carries.

Okay.

Do you want to do the next one too?

Motion five.

Are we gonna have a presentation we're ready for that?

I think we already have to do the second.

We jump forward again.

Oh, yes.

Yes, the subdivision review.

Um, I make a recommendation of the planning commission to term the preliminary subdivision review for the proposed silver sage business part two subdivision amendment is described in the staff report for the property located at 10895 south and 10935 south 700 east, um, based on the two findings and four conditions as outlined in the staff report.

I second that.

Sorry, who was the second?

Oh, thank you.

Cameron Duncan?

Yes, Craig Kitterman?

Yes, Ron Mortimer, yes, Danny Schoenfeld, yes, Steve Wrigley, yes, Lenise Davenport, yes, Dave Rom Dave Romley, yes.

This motion carries.

Okay, all right.

So now we will move on to the uh next two items that are um related to the previous two items.

Uh this will be the middle mile infrastructure site plan review and conditional use permit for public utility station.

Mike Okay, thank you, Mr.

Chair.

So this next item is on the same site, but on the southern end of this.

It's a proposal that's been put forward by just lost her name.

Christina Lewis with AECOM.

They're representing the middle mile infrastructure.

And they are proposing both a conditional use permit as well as a site plan review.

The conditional use permit is related to the proposed public utility station for fiber optic booster station.

And the site plan of the improvements that are associated with that proposed use.

And I believe Christina is online, so let me give her a chance to speak.

Can you hear me?

Speak right up into that your microphone.

Okay, is that better?

Yes, much better.

Thank you.

Okay.

Okay, great.

Um good evening.

My name's Christina Lewis, as you said.

I work with AECOM Technical Services, and I'm representing middle mile infrastructure for the site plan review and the conditional use permit.

So what we are proposing are um it's the inline amplification hut, and it's used to um boost fiber optic cable.

So about every 50-60 miles, the um the fiber optic cable starts to lose signal or bandwidth.

So we will pull the fiber optic cable into the building and re-energize that and boost that.

And um, so what we're proposing to install um initially is gonna be one um prefabricated concrete building, it's about 24 feet by 36 feet, and that sits on a concrete foundation, and then the other um that where your cursor is that's an emergency generator.

It's natural gas fire, so there will not be any fuel stored on the on the site, and that also sits on a concrete pad foundation, and then at the same time we will be installing concrete pads for one future inline amplification hut and one future emergency generator.

So along with that, so this our our site will be enclosed by the fence as discussed earlier.

So the south side, the east side, and part of the north side will be an eight-foot um concrete masonry wall, so that will help with um any kind of noise issues, and then the rest of the fencing around the site is gonna be um wrought iron to allow for a view into the site for crime prevention as requested, and then also we are going to be doing some architectural upgrades to our building, so we'll have a brick veneer and a gable groove, so it will be um in line with the residential um surrounding area.

Um these these huts are unmanned, so we'll only have somebody coming to the site about once a week, so it's not much of a traffic generator, and um access will be through Navigate Wells um parking lot.

So I think that is all I can think of.

Do you have any questions about that?

Any questions?

No, thank you.

Doug, a quick question for you.

Is will this have to come back before the plan commission for the other pad, or is this going to be a good thing?

It'd be a full once.

Okay, the full development is just gonna come in phases as their uh services become more in demand, then they'll add this second hut.

Okay, that makes sense.

They would only need to get a building permit for the set uh second hut when that comes along, but the site improvements would all be made at this time.

Okay, anything else?

So Christina was uh remote because she's in South Carolina, so we're keeping her up.

Um great to work with, uh, even though it's been a long distance relationship, which doesn't always work out.

So I think we've done all we can uh to mitigate this as I mentioned.

Uh we're we we had additional information submitted on the safety, which is one of the other issues that was raised uh in the neighborhood meeting uh concern about electromagic magnetic radiation and and basically they're putting their electronic equipment in concrete bunkers so uh we're not there's no uh there's no danger uh from a chemical or electrical uh risk uh from this site.

Um they are this is this is new stuff, um you know, it's a new industry, it's a new need, but it does fall into our uh public utility site definition, and we've got the conditional use to mitigate any anticipated uh negative impacts.

Okay.

So staff is uh recommending approval of this, both the uh conditional use findings and the uh site plan review.

Okay.

I just had a question about the construction, if I understood right, is it's precast concrete walls and then brick veneer on it.

Yes, they're adding the brick veneer uh to meet our requirements.

Pretty pro protected.

So yeah, and then there's a truss roof that will sit on top of the concrete roof of the of the hut.

Um to get the pitch roof that's a requirement from the zone.

Okay.

There you can you can see it there in that lower left corner.

You can see the truss that's being put on top of the uh hut.

And then it might go go up one, maybe maybe another one, a couple.

Keep going, please.

Right there.

Oh, yeah, back there.

So the this is a profile of the fence.

Um, the wrought iron fence they wanted uh barbed wire, and we don't allow that.

Uh so they're curving the upper part of the wrought iron columns to and pointing to those.

So eight feet tall with that curve top, it's gonna be pretty hard to get over that.

And what even if someone did, you know, they're locked out of a steel of a concrete bunker, so not as safe as we can make it.

So the electrical infrastructure for that area is sufficient and to fund to do this coming off the street, there's no transformer coming with this.

Pardon me.

And there's no like major voltage coming to this.

Okay, so you don't need that then.

It just doesn't have to be.

It'd just be the normal normal, okay.

And then the gas, of course, is under is uh buried.

Um the gas line.

So all of this infrastructure exists in 700 E's now.

That's why it was just yep, yeah.

Thank you.

There'll be nothing new.

Okay, anything else?

All right, thank you, Doug.

Okay.

All right, so um, we'll open this uh item up to public comment now, and if uh you have any comments, uh you could come forward.

Stit your name and address, and then uh got uh two minutes.

Uh Mark Scott, 1080 1080 Savannah Drive.

Um appreciate the opportunity to address the planning commission.

And um I'll begin by stating that we're addamantly opposed to certain portions of this development uh project, the conditional use permit, and the applicant is requesting for numerous numerous reasons.

I'm just gonna go ahead and read my comments so I can get through them quickly because I have such little time, but um the purpose of the SDPO uh silver stage zone was established an area for professional and business offices.

The intent and purpose uh creating the zone is clearly stated.

The fiber optic portion booster station portion of this development does not in any way meet the professional office zone restrictions nor its intent.

Uh the applicant, along with Sandy City is attempting to place this facility on the property by pretending that it is a public utility, which it is not, and then it qualifies for a conditional use permit, which it does not.

A public utility is defined as an organization that provides essential services to the public, such as electricity, water, and gas.

Utah division of public utilities describes its purpose as promoting the public interest and utility regulation and works to ensure that all customers have access to safe reliable services and reasonable prices.

It also states that it does not regulate internet service providers.

These providers and the companies that build infrastructure for them, such as middle mile, uh have no oversight or pricing controls to protect the public whatsoever.

So unfortunately, a fiber optic booster station does not meet these standards and therefore is not truly a public utility.

These types of facilities are too typically placed in remote areas that can be situated as far as 50 miles apart and are generally used to provide services to unserved and the nursery underserved areas of the country.

There's no reason whatsoever to plop one in the middle of a well-populated area of Sandy, Utah, and expose its citizens to potential hazards and nuisances.

In addition to this, a conditional use permit requires that the conditional use is beneficiary to the community it's in and is not detrimental or harmful to the community, its residents, and their property.

No evidence has been provided that the signals this booster station provides, even serves the residents of the Sandy City.

Residents of Sandy City are already well served by internet service providers, and we have numerous options that are just at our disposal.

In the previous neighborhood meeting, we we requested that the applicant be required to provide verifiable data and studies that show that short-term and long-term exposure to their facility and its operations pose no ill or harmful effects to nearby residents.

All we received was a copy of a letter from Middle Mile Infrastructures and a statement from one of their engineers citing a mathematical equation that they believe justifies the amount of magnetic field produced by a 600 foot uh 600 watt wire.

They also mentioned that neither Sandy City nor the state of Utah have any standards or requirements governing standards for a max magnetic field level, similar to what the equipment admittedly produces to some extent.

Very concerning that Sandy City has no regulations and/or government code, and uh and probably no real understanding of the facility, its equipment and functions and what they produce, and yet they want to put one in the middle of our community to make use of a piece of vacant land, and no real information on potential other hazards such as backup batteries, um, and things that could happen from potential failure.

Uh it was indicated that there's no fuel stored on the property.

Uh I believe though that uh propane is a fuel, any kind of emissions, any effects on environment, and uh no explanation as to what the racks of heat producing equipment that they need to keep at certain temperatures, etc.

Clearly, this facility does not meet the requirements outlined for the granting of a conditional use permit.

It is not the responsibility of Sandy City's planning and zoning department to provide a pathway for developer to circumvent the zoning requirements and their intent, nor is it the responsibility to all alter permitted uses of a zone so that a developer can include a use that makes their development economically feasible.

I would not understand why uh developer would build the professional offices if they can't sustain themselves economically on their own.

It's the duty and responsibility of the planning and zoning department to protect their citizens' safety and property from unintended consequences.

Therefore, we ask that you deny the applicant's request for conditional use permit for the fiber optic booster station in the SANISD professional office zone.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Scott.

Is there anybody else present that would like to speak?

Okay, seeing none, Mike, is there anybody online?

Yes.

Uh if you're joining us via Zoom webinar and would like to speak to this particular item, please use the raise your hand feature now, and we'll address you one at a time.

And we do have one hand raised, Mr.

Todd Bobing.

You may unmute yourself.

Hello, can you all hear me?

Yes.

Go ahead and state your name and address for the record, please.

Uh Todd Bobang 418 Randall Street Greenville, South Carolina, as well with Christina.

Um, I am the design engineer on this project with AECOM representing Middle Mile.

Um, and kind of want to make myself known that if there's any technical questions that y'all may have about this site.

Uh, and one other thing I want to kind of bring up is you'll kind of mention it when we're talking about the Silver Stage site uh the Navigate Wealth Building.

Is you all kind of mentioned it when we're talking about the Silver Stage site and the Navigate Wealth Building, that CMU wall that is on that north, northeast and south part of the site is eight foot tall and is there to also mitigate noise from our site, which then in turn should hopefully help mitigate noise from the road as well.

And kind of wanted also point out because it was brought up and we're talking about it of the EMF levels.

Although the state of Utah and the city of Sandy, they don't have specific regulations.

We looked at the World Health Health Organization.

And based on I won't get in the nitty-gritty of the numbers, but based on their levels, uh and what is their guidelines for the general public.

Yeah, and just kind of want to get for myself if if there's any technical questions that y'all may have.

Thank y'all.

Thank you.

Anybody else?

I am seeing no other hands raised.

Okay, so let's close this to public uh comment then at this time and and then uh maybe I don't know how staff would like to address this, but maybe just talk a little bit about uh the conditional use and public utility definition that might be one thing to address, and then another thing would might be the any you know harmful effect issues.

So I don't know how you'd like to maybe address that or who would like to address that.

Yeah, so I I can uh read the definition that Sandy City Code has regarding public utility stations.

Uh it means that a structure or facility used by a public or quasi-public utility agency to store, distribute, generate electric gas, electricity, gas, telecommunic excuse me, telecommunications and related equipment, or to drill, capture pump, or to otherwise engage in all aspects of treating and distributing water or affluent.

The term public utility station shall not include storage or treatment of solid waste or hazardous waste.

So it's it's broader than just a public utility, it does include any any uh group uh that's engaged um and or acts like a uh like a public utility or quasi-public utility agency, and and in this case it's telecommunications that they're providing.

It's a fiber optic booster station, just through make I mean it is a uh a technology I think is widely un not well understood, but it's light that they're transmitting in these cables, and so that's what's diminishing as they travel and that signal weakens, and this is a booster station that energizes that as was articulated by the applicant.

So we would find that this does meet our public utility station definition.

It is a conditional use as listed in the approved uh land use uh table for this SD zone, and they are following our city procedures for a conditional use permit to be reviewed and approved by the planning commission as long as any um uh impacts that are generated from this uh proposed use are adequately mitigated uh through this review process.

What is a quasi public utility?

Darren so I'm not sure what a quasi-public utility would be, but I I would looking at the definition say that it's something that acts like a public utility by providing services to the public.

It is defined, and you yeah, I I didn't think it was a defined term, but it is.

So we do have a definition for quasi public, means essentially a public use, although under private ownership or control.

Okay, that makes sense in this case then, correct?

Yeah, okay.

So it doesn't mean that it's necessarily regulated like Rocky Mountain Power as a sole proprietor or sole provider.

Um that hasn't been classified as as our fiber optic has not been provided like that, but it is a utility that is being provided for the use of the public, but it's under private ownership.

Okay.

Well, just it just like the internet it's new, it's it's not going away, and neither is the fiber optic.

So we have to accommodate the I asked the question.

Um there was the point brought up about it not serving the community, Sandy itself, but someone 40-50 miles away.

Can we address that?

Is that an issue to be addressed?

It's part of a larger network.

Yeah, it's just it's just like having a power substation, I guess.

Um but does it have to serve Sandy in order for it to meet the conditional use?

No, it does not.

And as far as whether it impacts Sandy residents, I'd defer to the applicant to address whether that is or not isn't, but it isn't necessarily something that is a definitional standard that has to be met.

Um the role of the planning commission, the planning commission is the land use authority on conditional uses under our ordinance.

So you you're the ones that decide whether the mitigating measures are adequate to address the anticipated negative impacts of the conditional use.

Okay.

You you cannot deny a conditional use in Sandy in the state of Utah.

So any other discussion or comment on that harmful effect aspect that uh was addressed.

I know that the the uh Todd uh with middlemile uh touched on that briefly, but is there anything staff?

Uh the gentleman did mention propane, that is not propane.

The uh the generators are uh underground served by natural gas, just like everybody's furnace in their home.

Okay, also I think they were mentioning the electromagnetic versus anything harmful with that, right?

Do I understand that generators are only for emergency?

They don't run constantly to power the system.

Do they do they cycle on and off like a lot of home generators do?

They'll be tested once a month for five minutes, other than that.

Uh they'll only run when there's a power uh outage, and they'll run for the duration of a power outage.

And the noise level projection was 55 decibels, which is far less than the street noise.

And that that was when the generator was going with the 55 decibel issue.

Okay, that's in that supplemental letter we sent the.

Okay.

Um thoughts the planning commission.

Okay, are you ready for a motion?

Anyway, um I moved that the planning commission um approve the middle mile infrastructure preliminary site design um located at 10935 south, 700 east as described in the staff report with the three findings and five conditions there a second.

I'll second Danny Schoenfeld, yes, Lenny Stavenport, yes.

Cameron Duncan?

Yes, Ron Mortimer?

Yes, Steve Wrigley, yes, Craig Kitterman.

Abstain Dave Bromley?

Yes.

This motion carries okay.

So we got the next motion, which is for the conditional use permit.

Would you like to do that too?

Um I move for the conditional use permit for the public utility station for fiber optic booster station as described in the staff report located at 10935 south, 700 east, based on the three findings and three conditions.

Okay, do we have a second on that?

I'll second Danny Schoenfeld, yes.

Lenise Davenport, yes, Cameron Duncan?

Yes, Ron Mortimer?

Yes, Steve Rigley, yes, Craig Kitterman.

Abstain.

Dave Bromley?

Yes.

This motion carries.

Okay.

Well, good luck is you move forward.

Both those projects then.

Thank you.

Okay.

Quick question, Chair.

Can you abstain?

Is that that's what I was wondering too.

I don't think.

Yeah, we need some direction on that.

If you if I remember, I think if you went through the whole distribution, the planning commission doesn't have the they have to either thumbs up, thumbs down, yeah.

If you can remind me, okay.

Yeah, we covered this years ago.

I think that's what I remember from years ago, too.

Yeah, that was before me.

Yeah, yeah.

Must have been the build up in ancient titles.

Yeah, I just want to make sure we're following the right procedure that we're not.

We were checking too because I know council, but we got I don't know if we're gonna work with that part.

Thank you.

It's usually a common question.

So as before or something like that, it is actually brought out before, but um, I just I just don't think we know enough about it.

Well, yeah, I would say no.

That'd be a no then.

Well, if I need to change that for no items would be that it's a little less look at it, give us a lot of things.

Yeah, just okay.

So in the meantime, let's go through and and uh we've got minutes from November 20th.

Uh is there a motion to approve?

Motion to approve the minutes.

All in favor?

I and then um okay.

So James, I think that that uh the that uh legal abstination of that is with the other crew.

Maybe if you can go for some Sandy development uh report.

Do you want to do anything else for you?

Um thank the planning commission for participating uh Monday, that was fun.

Yeah, and appreciate the uh all of you being able to participate with that.

I'm trying to think uh a minute ago I had a couple things on my head, but then my mind just went to that to see what we were what we were doing on there.

Um, Mike had just mentioned that the uh December 18th meeting is officially canceled.

So we're not uh we don't uh need to have that meeting just because we don't have some items that are we thought were gonna be there in time that we wanted to have it if they were, so we didn't hold anything up, but officially we'll uh looks like we won't have to have that meeting.

So um put that down and enjoy your extent.

All heartbroken, as am I so I appreciate that.

And as we're coming to a year's end, which the 18th would have been our last meeting of the year, um, I just want to tell the planning commission how much we appreciate you.

Um and it's uh been a a good year.

We have a lot of things coming up the first of the year, and some pretty big projects that we'll be working with the planning commission moving forward.

But uh just a big thank you to you for your efforts and just your consistency and how well you treat the public and other each other and work together.

We just very much appreciate it.

Thank you.

No, thank you, and uh we very much appreciate I think the support that staff provides.

It's I think you guys do an amazing job.

Uh I do am in the development world and I've gone to many different municipalities as several of these other people have as well, and and uh I I definitely am impressed with uh the staff that uh here.

So thank you for everything you guys do.

So we found your answer.

Okay.

So it's under Article 11 under the quorum and voting requirements, and it says that you can only abstain if you're voting on an item where you weren't present.

So if the commission is voting on an item where the member was not present for the presentation.

Okay.

So if you're present for the presentation, then we do not have an abstention.

Okay, so how do you want to handle this?

Do we again that we have six yeses on this?

Do we want do we need to revote?

Or are we okay on just leaving it as is um so I think it's okay to leave it as is.

The thing about these bylaws that because it's not going to make a difference.

No.

Right.

So the thing about these bylaws, it's a little bit different, is that they don't count the abstention as a no.

So it's not counted as a vote under the circumstances where the person wasn't present.

So it would have been counted as six members voting and unanimously.

Yes.

Okay.

Um generally speaking, I would say if you're if you're participating in the discussion, you need to vote.

If if you're abstaining from voting or recusing yourself from uh an item, you actually need to withdraw yourself, disclose that the the reason for the uh recusal and things like that, step out of the meeting, um, even remove yourself from the chambers during that deliberation and such.

Um so those would be reasons why you would want to abstain from voting because you have a conflict of interest or some type of thing like that.

But otherwise, if you're participating in that discussion and there's no conflict of interest, I would say that you should provide a vote.

And then like she said, in this case it didn't end up mattering, but as a matter of procedure and rules that we should follow, that would not be a practice that we would uh recommend.

Okay.

For this dis for this item.

I guess my take would be is that uh if there's some thoughts about uh whether there's sufficiency of items, whatever, maybe address that or bring that I think up for discussion, and then so that we can all understand and know what the thoughts are and then at least address those thoughts.

Uh and then you know you can still have the opportunity to vote yes or no, but I think that uh addressing those amongst planning commission deliberation would probably be my take on on that aspect of it.

So okay.

Yeah, I would agree.

If if there are issues or things that you feel haven't been addressed and haven't been discussed, we want that part of the discussion of the planning commission and uh and and we want that to be brought uh to the surface and and raised as an issue or question so that those questions can be answered or at least deliberated.

You may not still agree with what the motion is on on the on that's been proposed and seconded it, but um at least knowing what those objections are, what those concerns are is relevant.

I didn't ask some questions, and the answers were definitive in my mind, so I I guess I should have voted no.

Or or even make sure that you let us know that you don't think that there's sufficient there and that you don't feel comfortable and whatever as well.

So that I think that's I think that's good to know.

I like to know, I personally really like to know what other people think in these issues, and and that does help you know me understand and process things as well.

So good discussion.

So we have okay, all right.

So we have a really important item as the final item on our agenda, and that is to get this guy out of this seat.

Or put back.

No, no.

Uh and so we will vote on a new chair and vice chair ballot walk because we have some passage.

Somebody could substitute the vote.

Well, yeah, they could.

I will probably up front unless we can say stuff.

Recal if it's loaded.

Uh there's been ties before.

I think there has been ties before.

I'd just like to make it clear in my defense.

I am glad that they're developing this vacant piece of property that's been an ISOR forever.

Okay, so we have a winner.

Danny Schoenfeld, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Question advice.

Wait, who's vice?

Wait.

Go ahead.

Okay.

So did you vote?

No.

Kerman?

Craig did not, no.

Oh, okay.

I'm just uh okay, then we're I'm just making sure we call the case.

Who is vice?

Oh, you should who is vice.

Who is vice chair?

Lenise.

Danny.

Congratulations to you both.

We look forward to working with you in the over the next six months as chair and vice.

And just clarify.

And just by way of record, uh the December 18th, did we discuss that?

I don't know deep in thought.

We were deep in thought.

All right.

Very good.

Never mind.

Oh well, I think you're comments.

Oh, yeah.

All the way rules.

All of it.

All of your days.

Thank you all.

Yeah, Craig does stay afterwards now.

Oh, yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

It's like