Okay, let's just share where you're ready.

We're gonna do a prayer and uh pledge of allegiance and introductions that we are going to uh do our work session.

And for those of you who are listening, we'll take public comment in between the work session.

As soon as we're done here, we go back downstairs, we'll do public comment down there.

So I'm gonna start us off tonight with a prayer, and then uh Alison is going to lead us in the Pledge of Legions.

We're grateful for the opportunity together together this evening.

We're thankful for the opportunity to talk and debate things that concern our great city of City.

We're thankful for the opportunity to be able to talk, communicate, grateful as we do so that we will always be mindful and respectful of one another, a process, and of course let's say this humbly.

I mean something, right?

Pledge allegiance.

I think the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God with liberty and justice for all.

And Dustin, if you can start us off introductions.

Yep, I'm uh Dust McPretto.

I'm with the City Council Office, uh, Chris Edwards, Justin Sornson, Tracy Cadell, and Liz Terriel also with the Council Office around the back of the room.

Zach Robinson, District Three.

Uh Jameson, community development director.

Shane Pace, City Administrator.

Alison Stroud, District Two.

Brian Vika, District One.

Lynn Pace, City Attorney.

Cindy Shirkani, City Council at Large.

Marcy Houseman, City Council, District Four.

Rob Sand, Deputy Director.

Jason Downlight Director.

Darren De Kaiser at large, Jake Warner, Alumni Responning.

Excellent.

Thank you all for being here tonight.

Our first item of business is talking about building our future, a community housing workshop series.

And this is if I haven't lost count then.

All right, so this is five and five.

We're going to turn the time over to Lynn, over to Justin, and over to Jake to make sure that we get through tonight.

So Lynn, how about thank you?

It's good for me with you.

And I know that you are breathless with excitement about workshop number five, which is fifty final workshop on this uh housing workshop uh housing discussion, which we committed we would get done before the end of the year, so we appreciate the helping that goal.

Um tonight um I'm actually just going to uh direct traffic.

Dustin and Jake are completing more of the discussion.

Um I'm gonna turn some time over to Dustin first, who's going to recap sort of where we've been and where we're going tonight.

Anyway, and then Jake and we'll chime in as we go.

Thanks, Lynn.

Go ahead.

Uh Liz, when you get a chance, could you pull up the slides?

Um they are in your packet, so I can start kind of running through them as well.

Okay, sorry.

I'm just gonna interrupt just thought of something else I should have said up.

Remember that this is a policy discussion.

This is not the decision making process.

We're not voting on ordinances or resolutions.

This is giving policy direction to uh to the administration so that we they have direction as to what where you want them to go on that housing uh issues.

Now, you adopted the general plan uh what 11 months ago, 10 months ago, James.

So this would be a housing subset within the general plan.

We'll talk more about how that fits, but but remember this is a policy discussion, so don't worry about the fact that we're not getting into all the details.

We won't do that yet.

This is broad direction, and uh and we hope to get to a conclusion tonight that would give us give James and his team of the administration the guidance they need to go forward more than awesome.

Thanks, Glenn.

Uh, as Lynn mentioned, I'm just gonna go ahead and do a quick kind of recap of where we've been so far in the housing workshop series, and then what we're hoping to accomplish tonight.

Uh I'll then turn it over to Jake.

Jake will uh take you through uh a conversation and then we've got an exercise we kind of want to conclude the night with.

And the exercise will help us to kind of get some some final 30,000 foot level policy direction uh that we can use to uh bring back code amendments uh over the next uh year, two years, however long it takes us to implement all of this, right?

Uh so first uh as a uh a planning team, we organize this workshop uh under a specific framework.

We had five questions that we identified.

Uh they were the the why, what, where, who, and how.

So, why are we doing this?

Uh, what housing is missing in Sandy, where is it missing from, who's it for, and how do we begin to address the issue?

We feel that we've answered a couple of those questions, and there's still a couple that are remaining.

Um during the first three workshops, uh, we feel like we adequately addressed the first two questions from a policy direction perspective, and the result of that was our draft vision statement that we came up with.

Uh, I'm not going to read that.

You've all seen it a few times, though.

Um, we feel like at the last workshop, workshop four, we started to address the question of where.

So we we talked a little bit more about what housing is missing, and then we asked you guys to participate in a quiz about where that housing belongs within Sandy City, and that helped us to kind of start zeroing in on where we want to implement some of the missing middle housing types.

Um we do have some some follow-up questions on the question of where, where do we want to implement, and then we want to go over what we believe the answer is to who this housing is for.

We think that's been answered within the draft uh uh vision statement that we put.

But really, where we want to spend the most time is talking about at a high level how we're gonna accomplish the vision, right?

What are the tools and tactics that you guys are comfortable with using in order to uh get the types of housing that we want and the locations that we want?

And so, really quickly going back to the question of where do we want housing?

What you guys told us in the in the vision statement was was pretty ambiguous, it was in the right locations, and so that's why in workshop four we said, you know what, we really need to drill down on that a little bit, and all eight of you participated in the uh quiz that I've mentioned a couple of times now.

We went over the results with you, and I'm gonna go over them again here in just a minute.

Uh, but leading into that, you may recall that we divided the city into seven kind of broad categories for that quiz.

The seven categories were very low density neighborhoods, low density neighborhoods, medium density neighborhoods, corridors, neighborhood activity centers, station area plan centers, and then the cairns.

And you can see all those on the map, right?

The circles are the station area plans, the orange is the activity centers, yellow lines are the corridors, the low density is the kind of dark brown, very low density is the light brown, and then the red is the median density, and blue is the cairns.

See how we've split that up on the map.

Uh, this is just a reminder.

So here are the results.

You know, we already went over these last week, but this is a reminder for everybody.

Um, the question that we we tried to ask here was of those seven, or I'm sorry, of the uh in those seven locations, which missing middle housing types do you feel fit within each location?

Here's the overview.

I'm gonna drill into it a little bit.

So in the cairns, uh, most of you said that small loss single family, mansion style multifamily, town homes, and then small midrise were the preferred missing middle housing types within the cairns.

We don't have a lot of questions about that.

You know, there's there's we don't necessarily need a lot of additional conversation around that.

So Dustin, yeah, go ahead.

So those categories he was talking about, those are reflected in the bar graphs.

You see this.

So, what are the last two?

Just they said we're not really appropriate for the current station.

Yes, the last two.

The last two were actually um somebody had typed in uh an additional housing type, and they were uh true mid-rise and high rise.

So those weren't missing middle housing types that we identified, but one of the eight of you uh put those in as another.

So there was a council member or the mayor who said, Hey, I think the true midrise or high rise fit in there.

Obviously, uh four of you didn't feel that way, but we've still noted notated it here on the graph.

Uh next in the centers and in corridors, so we we do have we we want you guys to kind of think about centers and corridors.

I'm not I'm not asking you this question right now, but as we move through the night, as we go through Jake's presentation, as we get into the exercises.

One question that I want you to think about is um what happens when a station area plan or a neighborhood activity center or a corridor intersects or runs through a lower density neighborhood, right?

All of them do that.

And so which which uh trumps which, right?

Which which type of which location type trumps the other when we're talking about which types of middle missing housing belong there, um, or is there some middle ground?

I I don't need an answer to that right now, but I want you guys to think about that as we're kind of moving through uh the rest of the night.

So in the uh centers and the corridors, really, most of you said that um all of these missing middle housing types belong within the station area plan centers and within the neighborhood activity centers.

Um most of you said that they all of them except uh ADUs and twin homes also belong in corridors on the medium density neighborhoods.

This one's kind of interesting because uh all the proposed housing types except the small mid-rise uh were preferred by all eight of you.

So this one's interesting because it actually aligns really well with what we currently permit within the zones that fall within the medium density neighborhoods.

So we already permit each of those housing types with the exception of the external ADUs, because we don't permit those anywhere.

So really interesting, there's not a lot that we think we need to do with the medium density neighborhoods right now.

So we're already permitting them.

Uh so that brings us to the area where we really hope you guys will think the most about tonight, and that is the lower density neighborhoods.

Um these happen to be, I think the toughest to address as well, but they're the most important to think about tonight for quite a few reasons that I'll go over in a minute.

Uh, during the last workshop, the majority of you identified external ADUs, small loss single family, twin homes, and mansion style multifamily as preferred within the lower density neighborhoods.

Uh, it was interesting though, because during the conversation, uh words like uh we would like to see these in transitional areas, edges, in buffers, on corners, you guys used those kind of descriptive words to tell us where you would like to see those housing types within lower density neighborhoods.

And so we do have we have some more questions about that.

As we get into these exercises, I would classify uh those as a condition, right, to building uh these housing types.

And so we're interested in understanding is that a condition that you would place on those housing types in lower density neighborhoods, and if so, what might that look like?

Um then finally, just a reminder.

So why are we asking you to delve further into lower density neighborhoods?

There's a few reasons.

First, you can look at this map and you can see the lower density neighborhoods make up the vast majority of the city, right?

Obviously, if we're going to talk about uh middle housing and where it goes, we have to talk about the lower density neighborhoods.

Um these areas primarily contain single family homes.

Our share, if you look at the pie graphs on the right, our share of single family homes.

We really kind of exceeded our fair share.

We're talking about uh higher densities, missing middle and single family homes when we're compared to the tri-county area, the Salt Lake County.

Um, and so really in order to expand our missing middle piece of the pie, more than likely we're gonna need to reduce our single family portion of the pie in some capacity.

Um I can just add your you look at those pie graphs, um, we are roughly the same in terms of the uh stacked mid rise units, same percentage of Salt Lake County, three county region, but we are considerably higher on single-family residential and considerably lower on missing middle middle housing, right?

So if the goal, which is what you told us in our earlier sessions, if the goal is to get more missing middle housing, we're going to have to think about converting some portion of that single family territory to missing middle housing.

The 76% you see there in terms of uh single family housing is reflected in these last two bar graphs.

The low density residential and the rural, that's the 76%.

So when we talk about this, if you want to expand missing middle, you need to think about what housing you would allow in these two areas because that's where the expansion would be.

That makes sense.

All of these, again, they all intersect those lower density neighborhoods.

And so something else to kind of think about as we move through the rest of the night.

And then we're going to go into an exercise, and that's where I hope to spend most of the time tonight.

And the exercise is meant to help us understand some of the conditions and incentives that you think are important depending on the locations and housing types.

With that, I'll I'll turn it over to Jake.

I just want to add another wrinkle.

It may be the case that if the impression you got from what they said is that we need to eliminate some of our single family to increase the share of missing middle, the wrinkle I would like to add is maybe there's opportunities for us to add more of that missing middle, which would otherwise decrease the share of the existing single family, if that makes sense.

So there may be some opportunities for some conversion, but there's also opportunities to just merely add more diversity of housing type, which would adjust those percentages as well.

So as Dustin has mentioned, within the framework of these workshops, we've talked a lot about the what, the why, uh, the where we've touched on the who tonight with this last workshop is now touch on the how.

And in order to get there, um I want to run through just kind of a thought exercise to look at the application of the where and uh and the what using that subset that we were just talking about, the lower and the very low density uh neighborhood areas, and the housing types that at least four of you selected as potentially appropriate in those areas, and um we as staff obviously have a lot of questions before a code could be written brought to you to do so, and in my mind, the only safe assumption is to not assume anything with what came out of the survey, right?

So at least half of you said that these four housing types may be appropriate in a low or very low density neighborhood, some of our existing neighborhoods.

Um my guess is that that is not a carte blanche free-for-all, right?

That that would include some type of package of conditions, regulations, controls, incentives, whatever it might be, and um correction.

So for now, I'm just gonna call those possibilities as factors, and we've we've kind of started to think of those factors and categories, so locational factors, we have design considerations, we have occupancy factors, affordability, maybe there's some incentives that we may want to consider to encourage certain outcomes, and then what are the tools and mechanisms that we put in place to do all of that?

So we're gonna run through each of those four housing types of at least half of you selected for our neighborhoods as far as missing middle housing types that could be introduced, and um my main objective is to raise questions, not necessarily get answers right now, but to do so to kind of tee up an exercise that Dustin has prepared, kind of get you warmed up, get your brains thinking along the lines of what are what would be that package of factors that whereby I would be okay with this housing type being introduced to these areas, and then that's the exercise that Dustin will run through with you with these charts that he's got up, and then from that lead to discussion.

And my main objective is to raise questions, not necessarily get answers right now, but to do so to kind of tee up an exercise that Dustin has prepared, kind of get you warmed up, get your brains thinking along the lines of what are what would be that package of factors that whereby I would be okay with this housing type being introduced in these areas, and then that's the exercise that Dustman will run through with you with these charts that he's got up, and then from that um lead to discussion.

So if we start with detached ADUs, under what conditions would you be okay with detached ADUs?

This may be the simplest one, right?

Because there have been a lot of discussions.

Uh it seems like generally the council has been moving this direction.

Um the almost all of you selected detached ADUs as potentially being appropriate in these areas, yet still we as staff would have a lot of questions that would need to be answered before a code could be drafted.

Um, locationally.

Would you be okay with a detached ADU on any type of lot in the neighborhood?

A regular lot, a corner lot, maybe it's more appropriate on an edge lot.

Um this particular neighborhood is supposed to be an example of a typical neighborhood in Sandy.

It is an actual neighborhood in Sandy, some of you may be able to tell where that is.

Um Shane's house.

No.

Shane's address if anybody has eggs or toilet paper, uh don't go there.

Um Jake, if I can just since I already interrupt what you want to think about here is that you you look at that map down below the map of the city, and you see these vast areas of single family residential.

And what we want you to think about is that within a zoning district that is generally single family residential, either low density or rural, you have different types of properties.

You have what we call interior lots, middle of the block, surrounded by all other single family homes.

Then you have somebody on a corner lot where it the use of the lot and the field lot is a little bit different because they're surrounded by two streets.

Sometimes you got three streets, right?

Then you've got other homes that we're calling on the edge of the area.

This one is shown on the edge next to a busy street, but it could be on the edge of the zoning district next to a non-residential use.

It could be next door to the church, next door to the school, next door to a gas station.

So it's still zoned single family residential, but it's at the edge of the district, and next door is a less sensitive neighbor, right?

And so when you think about what fits in these neighborhoods, you might say to yourself, well, I'm okay with it here, but not there.

So think of the variation within the district when you start to consider the options of what you think works doesn't work.

So thank you.

Jake, can I ask a clarifying question?

Um the vast majority.

So earlier we were referring to the vast majority of our lots.

The vast majority of our lots, as I understand it, are R18, right?

8,000 square foot lots, are typical.

And are we referring to that as low density?

Yeah, so um if we were to go back, with our code definition of low low density.

So this map is taken from our general plan, the feature land use map.

Um we have, you know, again, we're talking about low and very low density neighborhoods.

So um a very low density neighborhood is a is uh is a neighborhood that generally goes up to about three units per acre.

So our R140s, R120s, R115s, right?

Um, low density neighborhoods would be those that are generally gonna average about three to six units per acre.

So our typical residential zoning, yes, is an R18, R110, uh, could include an R16 in there as well.

But those are all considered as far as this process, low density.

So there is a range here that we're talking about.

We've kind of lumped in all of our detached single family neighborhoods, which in the general plan we call very low and low density neighborhoods.

For our for the purpose of our discussion tonight, we're kind of lumping them all all in together.

We thought about trying to run through these scenarios of every housing type with every um residential type, and it got to be 50 scenarios that we would need to present to you.

So we've boiled it down to some basic approaches to how we're discussing it tonight.

But thank you.

Quick question.

I I know there's value in this discussion, detached ADU specifically, but we know that the legislature has already signaled that this will very likely be discussed during this upcoming session.

Which could mean that regardless of our decisions as to location, conditions, etc.

That might get overridden by anything the state does, correct?

Correct.

And we will have to comply.

So and this leads to the next category.

Yeah, we may be preempted at some level.

My understanding is that there will still need to be some digital decisions at the city level.

You know, that gets into the next category of design.

Can I comment on that real quick?

So sorry.

So Marcy.

Yes.

But the state's not going to come back and say, hey, you have to permit these, and they have to be here, here, designed this way, harder.

And so to us, it's really important that we get some policy direction and understanding.

When you say, hey, we want to permit detached A to use.

Are you saying detached A to use are so important to us that we want to allow them and we want to incentivize them?

Here's how we want to incentivize them.

Or are you saying we want detached A to use, but you know, we think they might bring some potential uh impacts right to the neighborhood.

And so there's some conditions that are important to us, and here's what those conditions might be, or the types of conditions.

And so those are the types of things that we're interested in tonight, and we'll go over that when we get to the exercise.

So, yes, the state could preempt this.

Even so, it's a it's valuable for us to have the discussion so that when the state says you have to allow them, and Jake is writing a code in uh May, uh he'll know.

Okay, well, the council of mayor says these incentives are important to them for ADUs and these conditions are important.

Where does that fit in to what the state's requiring?

So, in effect, the state might say, cities, you must allow detached ADUs.

And then we get to determine where height, setbacks, things like that.

Yeah, just so you know, the current discussion of the state is every city has to allow them, has to adopt an ordinance allowing them on any lot larger than 10,000 square feet.

That's where that's where the dialogue is right now.

Where will that move by the end of 1 March?

I don't know.

But state the state, I think it is highly likely on this issue that they will do some preemption.

Um, but there'll be lots of pieces, lots of questions we still not want to answer.

Are we going to do only what the state tells us?

Stop there, or do we want to be more permissive?

And what about height, setback, windows, things like parking, all those other issues?

Who's the housing for?

There's all kinds of questions.

Yeah, that's what we're asking tonight.

Is you know, Jake's gotten down into some detail on what the mean location, design, etc.

But we want you to think about those high-level categories.

Do locational conditions matter to you, do design conditions, etc.

So it could be potentially helpful as we're thinking about our legislative problem.

We've discussed last week, right?

It could be helpful for us to have had this discussion going into that as well, right?

Because we could say we'd like to contribute what we've already discussed.

So, hey, state, as you were thinking about whatever you're gonna do, this is what's really important to us at CNN.

So is that going to be helpful to whoever carries our our legislative voice for that was my exact point is that um if we can uh as we if we as a can as a city can decide what we're comfortable with when they have those discussions at the legislature, we can say, hey, we're really comfortable with you know these locations, our 120s, our 115s, our one but we're not comfortable with R16.

But at least you get the chance to tell them that while the discussions are going on, if we have don't have this discussion, uh we can't really give them great feedback, but having this discussion and kind of reaching a consensus that it's much more powerful to the legislature.

Excellent.

Okay, thank you for taking time to do that.

I just want to make sure I understood our goal here.

And these are the types of questions that we're hoping to prompt as I go through and will lead to that other exercise.

Um good discussion, and again, a lot of these things that we were discussing are design.

Um, you know, are we okay with uh ADUs on the second story above a garage?

You know, that may affect the neighbor's privacy a little bit more.

Maybe the controls aren't zoning, maybe it's setbacks, right?

If the setback is a little bit larger, that may already eliminate smaller rocks like in the R16.

So the package can adjust, and there's a lot of different ways to approach it and tools to use, but those are the things we want you to start thinking about.

And I'm just gonna go through these categories for each of these four housing types of occupancy.

You know, are there certain groups of people that we want to target as far as ownership, our seniors, entry level housing, um, affordability?

Uh you know, the size of the unit itself may affect the cost of that unit and the affordability of that unit.

Incentives, if there are things that we want to encourage, how do we encourage those things?

What are things that we can do as a city to encourage the outcomes that we want?

And then tools, again uh overlay zones, agreements.

Um there's some things we can do with zoning, there's some things we can't do with zoning, uh, but we may be able to get uh there with agreements or contracts.

So again, just throwing out the questions about this housing type compared to these factor categories.

Next, we go to small lot, single family.

Again, under what conditions would we be okay with, would you be okay with we as a city be okay with small lot single family in these areas?

At least half of you said that it may be an appropriate housing type.

What's that package of conditions, criteria?

Um, a small lot single family, you get the detached component of our typical neighborhoods, detached single family, but the scale is different, right?

The scale of the lot itself is different.

Um is it different enough that it affects the neighborhood character, which we know our residents are concerned about through our general plan?

Um, and how do we control for that if that is a consideration of priority of yours?

Um again, those locational considerations.

Would it maybe maybe it's more appropriate on an edge?

Um this neighborhood happens to be adjacent to a track station, so it's one in one of those station areas.

The state is pushing us to consider more housing options in proximity to our stations.

So is that a factor we want to consider that maybe closer to our centers or neighborhood activity centers or station areas?

We may be we may want to be a little more open to some of these housing types, and then design again, the scale, you know, is that a an important character of the neighborhood?

Occupancy, this housing type may lend itself really well to an entry-level household.

Is that important to us?

Is that important enough that we want to incentivize that somehow?

And then affordability entry-level housing is important to us.

Again, the house size becomes important.

Uh, the state we heard from uh Steve Waltrip that you know, the governor's office is considering is there something we can do with garages?

Um, getting back to that post-World War II idea of not all houses had garages, and is that a more affordable way to potentially build entry-level housing?

Is that something that we as a city would want to consider is maybe that being optional?

Um you know, we've kind of the first slide locational slide identified some existing lots, interior, corner, edge.

But what about vacant property?

Would we be more open to this housing type on a larger vacant property where it could design as an independent project and maybe have some of those transitioning factors and buffering built in?

Um, just another consideration as we think about this housing type in these areas.

Twin homes and duplexes, um, this is a little bit different than the last one in that you don't have that detached component, but a twin home can be built at a scale that matches existing single family home and an existing neighborhood.

Does that an attractive uh factor to you?

Um, one that you would want to encourage again, those same locational considerations.

You know, is it more appropriate to potentially build a duplex in an existing neighborhood if it's a lot that has multiple frontage, multiple frontages like a corner or uh an edge edge lot that might be double fronted?

And then again, potentially a bigger project on a vacant piece of property, and then what are those design considerations, those setbacks, those um scale, um, those aesthetics, the architecture, are those important enough that we would want to include those into a package of into that package of controls?

Um and then mansion style again, uh you know, so as opposed to duplex or twin home, this would be three or four units in in the structure.

Uh a lot of you seem to like this potential housing type.

Um again, it can be built scale that uh matches existing homes in a single family neighborhood.

Um but it also the housing type that uh would lend itself to being uh a condo type uh project.

Uh and we know that there's we've heard about some of the difficulties with uh developing condo projects right now.

So is it a housing type that's attractive enough to incentivize in a way that would offset um those difficulties for uh a potential developer?

But again, occupancy, ownership.

Um would we care if all the units are owned separately?

Condo, you know, condominiumized could be owned separately, or you know, even with the duplex or twin home.

Are we okay with a single owner-occupant that helps somebody get into that housing type, and that income can help them the income from the other units, the rental income from those other units helps them to get into uh a homeownership situation?

Um again, is it something that you would want to incentivize in some way?

Um, and then what are the tools that we might need to implement to make that happen?

So again, I just wanted to run through this kind of a thought exercise to get you thinking along the lines of of that package that we might want to surround these housing sites with if we were to introduce them into areas that they're not currently allowed, and with that, I'll try to back over to the best.

Any questions so far?

Sorry, some answer just to come up with you answered a couple of my questions.

Um the first being on our decisions about you know things like density bonuses and things like that.

What are we applying this decision making to the current zoning maps or the future land use map in the new general plan, which has a higher density?

So I think the answer is we're applying this to the future land use map, which has a higher density than current zoning maps, do is that correct a correct answer?

I think there's a lot of different ways to look at it.

Um the general plan is a tool for you to use, right?

If you feel like six is the absolute maximum or a low density neighborhood, then I I think that's an appropriate tool to use in your decision making on this.

Um we are merely asking the questions right now.

The general plan can also be amended, right?

If you feel that like after these housing workshops and talking about this, you think that you're comfortable with a certain package for a certain housing type, and maybe that maybe that range needs to bump one way or another a little bit.

It's it's a tool, it's it's something that also can be amended so that those ranges are adjusted if you feel like that's appropriate.

Um so right now we're just asking the questions, and there's a lot of different ways that we could approach it, implement it.

Um depending on the outcome of our discussions, um these discussions would need to be followed up with code amendments or implementing tools of some type, and we anticipate that those uh that process is where we'll really need to get into the weeds and answer some.

So I'm glad you brought up the process because that was my second question.

Can I go back to your first question?

Yeah, or stay with your first question.

Um my answer as the attorney would be uh you asked, is it is it do I go off existing zoning or I would say it's dependent, which I know is exactly what you were hoping.

Um but the the reason I say that is because there are some situations where you just want to say to them, we're gonna give you permission, go do what you want.

For example, take the Cairns district where you said we're okay with with uh multi-story housing, stacked housing, build whatever you want.

Condos apartments, we've just given you permission without any any conditions except maybe design guidelines, some of things like that.

On the other hand, if you go into a you know a neighborhood, think of farms with farms.

I wasn't around when that was done, but I've heard about it at fact.

Um and the city said hey, with you taking what's on the ground there, this fairly low density, and making much higher density.

The city gave that away for free.

And what did you get?

You got rented units, right?

If instead the city had said, we'll give it to you, but only if you commit to make it owner-occupied housing, then they would have decided whether or not they were willing to create for sale units.

So all of this depends on what is what what your objectives are, and in some places you just give it by right, you know, single family housing, we don't care, right?

But if there's something specific you want, we'll give you higher density if you give us owner occupancy, for example.

That would be bargained for, or sometimes it would be incentivized.

We'll give you increased density, we'll reduce your parking requirements or something else, uh, or we'll reduce your permit fees because we really want you to build.

So and and Dustin's gonna get into this later.

What are you okay with just giving them permission?

No questions asked.

What are you and what do you want to incentivize to say, no, no, we really want that, so let's let's encourage them to build one of them.

And so, depending on which where it is in that continuum, that's where the rest.

I want to litigate Barnesworth Farm, but that was five to six years ago, and we did ask all those questions that we were made, all those commitments, and today's a different day.

And so, but here I get here's another thing that I've asked.

So, regarding the process, um generally the process we use when we are implementing big changes like this, would be that we would have a staff recommendation, and it doesn't sound like we're getting that.

And um, I I I really I embrace and I support everything we've done so far so far.

We've had a lot of education, we've gotten we've done a deep dive into different kinds of housing, the applications, and now you're asking us to do city planning, and I'm not a planner.

I don't rely on staff recommendations for my decision making, but it's an important component of what I do.

I um I feel like it's an aspect, I feel like it's an important aspect of what we're missing.

Um I embrace that we need to head in a different direction.

I want to be really careful about how we do that, and I don't want to have any unintended consequences where we open up floodgates.

So to me, the devil is in the details.

Yes, we've expressed an interest in missing middle housing.

I we're I think we're all together on that.

The where, the how the where the how to me, I would look for some advice from the experts.

Will I take the advice, hook line and sinker?

Maybe maybe not, maybe you know, I'll want changes, but we it doesn't sound like we're getting that part.

And so we we're the policymakers, that is true.

The decision comes to us, but I feel like that's an aspect of this decision making, important decision making that we're missing is staff recommendations.

Can I can I get that one on that?

So I can answer that too.

My thought on this is that um I keep hearing the devils in the details, and I agree with you 100%.

But we're we cannot get to the details where staff will provide you with their recommendation until we have an understanding of high level direction.

What is what is the general direction that we want to go in, right?

I don't feel like we're asking you guys to come up with, hey, this is exactly what we're gonna do, when we're gonna do it, how we're gonna do it.

We're looking for 30,000 vote level policy direction so that James and his team can provide you with a recommendation based on the direction that you guys would like to go in.

Um and so you will have the opportunity to get into the details and say, well, no, uh, what is your recommendation recommendation, Jake, on this particular thing when we get there?

But the problem is we can't um I don't know that they're comfortable giving a recommendation globally, right?

Related to all of housing.

I think Jane, and if I'm if I'm misspeaking, let me know.

I think you guys would prefer you'd be able to give a better recommendation if you're giving recommendations on particular changes, and when they when you have an understanding of what the general direction is going in.

So that's what we're looking for.

Once they have general direction, we're gonna go into this Title 21 rewrite over the next couple of years, and we'll be able to look at this general direction and say we know generally that our elected officials want to go in this direction.

They'll write something, they'll say, here's our recommendation on how we move forward on this particular aspect, and that's when you'll get their the recommendation, and that's when you'll be able to give that kind of granular uh detail-oriented you know, changes, etc.

But in order to get there, we've got to answer the 30,000 foot level questions first.

I mean, we for instance.

I'll just give a simple one.

We went over ADUs.

We need to know does the council want ADUs?

And if they do, what size of lots do you want them on?

And then we can come back with the details.

But we need to know policy.

What policy are you gonna set for ADUs?

Do you want them or do you not?

And if you do want them, do you what size of lots do you accept them on?

And then we will come back and say, we'll give you the the details on that.

Well, we would recommend in this area if you have a larger lot, for instance, you might have a larger setback, you might have based on the lot size, or things like that, based on the surrounding area, we'll give you the details of it through the code, but we need to know if you want them or if you don't.

To me, it's that simple.

Well, how about your recommendation as to whether we have?

I mean, it doesn't sound like that's I like the collaboration, right?

But I also like the advice and guidance of the experts.

And so I'm even with as much experience as I have, I'm not an expert.

And so I feel like generally speaking, the process that we use is that the experts come to us with the idea of changes, and we either say yes or no or we amend or edit or whatever, right?

But it just it feels like we're missing.

But you'll still get that chance to do that.

But well, more than that, if you go back to that other slide, our bar graph there.

Um anyway, what we did was we asked the council what kind housing types.

Don't focus about you know where it is in the block, just what type kind of what types are you okay with?

Yeah, and the council's if you look at low density, we had eight elected officials tell us that ADUs they thought were appropriate in low density areas.

That's that's just policy direction.

Doesn't tell us what size lot or the setbacks of the parking or the window, just direction.

We think of it.

Now you go to rural, we had one one elected official drop-off, right?

So and you look at the other housing types the same.

So we're just looking for broad policy direction so the staff can go back and develop a proposal to bring you for your consideration.

None of this is gonna happen until they get policy direction, they make a recommendation, and you guys vote on.

And and James just sits in the interesting, he said ADUs, tell us ADUs on what size lot.

You may come back and say, We're up comfortable, we're okay with with with ADUs generally, but we need you to tell us what size lots.

So there's a little bit of give and take there, right?

Some of that you can establish as policy, some of it you may want their recommendations, size lots are appropriate.

You're guys taking our guidance as gospel.

You I hope that you will say to us, this isn't a good decision.

I I would like that.

For instance, we had a notes last um uh the last work shop I remember, and that was on the mansion style houses, and we got into a discussion about that and found that oh, the usual application for those are rentals.

We didn't know that.

We didn't know that.

So we were making an assumption and we were casting votes based on something that then later the experts said um you were using or you know, they informed us that maybe the definition we were using was not the appropriate definition.

So excellent point.

You're getting ahead of the agenda.

That's what's going to be ahead of the agenda.

So and that's exactly where we're at, right?

That's why I said the only safe assumption is not to assume because I don't know if those of you that voted yes voted yes thinking that yes, but I also don't know if those that voted no voted no thinking no, except maybe I would be okay, you know.

And so um keep in mind we have the general plan, but it's just general direction.

Um it has a policy in there saying that we as a city will encourage detached ADUs.

Now administration staff is now moving forward with the code rewrite.

The council has provided a budget for that to happen.

That was our next step.

Um I applaud the council for taking this step.

This is your meeting, right?

This was um I think Aaron and others um have this vision for these this series of workshops, and it has been very helpful for us as staff to go beyond what the general plan says as far as we encourage detached A to use.

That's a very broad.

I have a lot better understanding already of where the council's at relation to A to use than just encourage it.

Um we we were already moving forward with a code rewrite, which would have been our next step, which would have been working with the consultant and bringing those recommendations to you and working through that process.

The county is saying these housing issues are important to us.

Maybe we need to bump those up outside of that process, and so that's telling us that maybe we need to take a different approach, and our approach would be similar to what we've done with other code amendments, and start to bring those recommendations to you as a target for you to shoot down.

And so we envision getting into the weeds and bringing those recommendations to you.

Um we discussed having another workshop, but we thought that's part of that code amendment process.

So let's let that process the process run its course, and we know that we won't have all the answers tonight.

So we do anticipate we will need to go through that process with you, and um whether that's through the code rewrite or we try and bump up some of those housing issues ahead of that to get them.

Even when we get to the code portion of it, my guess is there'll be multiple visits to the council to say, is this what you were thinking?

Oh no, okay, we'll adjust.

And they'll be I think substantial back and forth dialogue.

I think there'll be a lot and a lot of and a lot of rewrites and a lot of things that will come and you won't, and we haven't got it exactly right, and then we'll maneuver it based on what your the input you give us as we go continue through our rewrites.

We're gonna pivot based on our I'm not hearing the point at which we get their recommendations from the experts.

Well, I think, and I don't want to speak for staff, but but I think what what they're asking for is uh session number five of policy direction, and then they will take the ball and they'll go provide some feedback and bring you bring you back some recommendations, Jay.

Okay, Cindy, we hear we hear you're giving us permission to tell you if you're doing something dumb.

Please hope the sooner the better.

We will do that now.

We haven't we haven't gotten that perspective, and that's because from my from my perspective, we purposely not presented you with anything that we wouldn't be generally comfortable comfortable with if you said, yeah, let's move forward on with on something like that, as as subject matter experts.

I'm a planner, trained as a planner, got planners here.

There's been nothing that we presented that we would couldn't get behind and say, yeah, that's a good that's a good decision.

We're not gonna present that type of a thing to you.

Uh any disagreement on that from anyone.

We've had a lot of discussion about it uh in our our meetings behind the scenes, and um maybe some light arguments about it as well.

Uh and you will be getting recommendations, specific recommendations, and I would what we're presenting almost almost a recommendation.

We're not we're not proposing something that we wouldn't be comfortable with on any of these things.

If you told us, hey, we're okay with all of these housing types in all these locations with no conditions.

I generally think you find that I don't think you're gonna say that, but we would we wouldn't be uncomfortable with it.

Any other questions at this point or questions?

All right, just okay.

Uh I just want to jump into who I feel like this one will be really quick.

I think we've already answered this question in our draft vision statement, but I wanted to double back since we haven't spoken about it specifically to make sure that we're not missing anything or that we've captured it accurately.

So the eight of you have told us that we want to encourage housing and housing affordability for residents across all stages of life, including seniors, first time home buyers, and our local workforce, and you'd like the housing to be owner occupied as much as possible.

That is what we're classifying as the who is this discussion for, who is the housing affordability meant to target.

Those are the groups.

I understand residents across all stages of life is really broad, but we feel like it's been narrowed down, first-time home buyers, local workforce, owner occupied.

We understand that that's not going to be uh you know carte launch across any code amendment, and I hope you all understand that as well.

Tell us if if we're wrong on that, but is there anything that we're missing in terms of of who we're trying to focus on in terms of housing affordability?

I have one thought multi-generational housing, allowing residents to age place, aging in place, yeah, multi-generational.

When developers are considering projects, they'll come to the city and say we want we've got two or three acres, we want this many housing units, we'd like them all to rentals.

That's what we're seeing.

We're not coming building single family housing, for owner occupied affordable, low density.

Okay, so uh the incentives, the trade-offs, the tools that we have is if you hit these markers, these policies uh goals that our council has set forth in our general plan and our code, uh the more you hit on these levers, the more density.

So that's the exchange because that's offering something that our community doesn't have in uh our housing stock, our community amenity.

The more the developers meet the goals of the city, the more they would expect and should expect consideration of density.

So we need tools to create housing stock that we do not have, and so I think it's really important to start with a proper vision statement like what we're compiling here to give them a roadmap for what we're looking for.

That's fair.

That sets the expectation, and uh when it comes to affordability and owner occupancy, those two are not their intention very much intentional to one another.

So the fixed variable, the pressure point, pressure release valve is density, Mayor.

Does aging in place uh when I when I hear that, I tend to think of a broad variety of housing types, right?

You know, when you have million and a half dollar six thousand square foot houses, with a large family with a large yeah, with 10 bedrooms, nothing in between, and then a you know, small condo that has two bedrooms to me, aging in places you have every step of housing between those two things so that people can remain within the community.

Is that an is that an accurate well it might not meet every housing type, but we're just talking about ADUs, certainly fits there, right?

So uh I think they're applied factors, these these goals are applied depending on the housing type, and but setting the goals, setting the global goals, and then finding the right tools to make those create housing stock that we want.

So not everything is gonna match up with all of them, but one or two can support a certain type or a certain density, that's the starting point.

And uh let me just finish the in aging in place.

I think it does really fit with external detached V.

We talked quite a bit about that, and we've heard a lot from our residents on that.

People want to stay in their neighborhoods, they would all size requirements would be a little bit larger.

Uh but we've talked about doing test location to get something going because there is a lot of interest.

I think one of the things from this statement you want to think about is that we have not specified that we're looking for a certain type of housing for a certain type of user.

Residents in any stage of life.

Okay, that's pretty broad.

Seniors, first-time home buyers, those are two ends of the scale, right?

And then workforce housing, and as much as possible.

So if I'm reading this right, we're okay with people bring us proposals for any of those.

We're not saying we you have to have this one time, right?

Now bear in mind that depending upon the type of housing, not all of it is going to be owner occupied.

An ADU by definition is the owner in the house and a renter in the ADU in the backyard, or or vice versa.

A duplex, typically you either have two renters or you have an owner in one side and a rented in the other side.

Twin home on the other hand suggests both our own, right?

So but all of those have different variations.

And if the answer is yes, then we'll move on to the next slide.

Okay.

Okay.

So where we really want to spend the majority of time tonight is the question of how how can we begin to implement this?

And I say begin because I mean it really is the beginning.

We're not going to make one change or adopt one new policy that's going to suddenly uh allow us to solve you know any housing issues that might exist within the city or the state or nationally.

Um however, this will, as we've mentioned, allow staff to begin recommending policy amendments, code amendments, uh, to hopefully uh kind of start down the road of seeing some change.

And so what I'm gonna do uh right now is I'd like to go over a few uh strategies with you just to ensure that everyone's on the same page.

So I included this in the agenda packet.

There's one in front of each of you.

Uh it is a uh memo that we wrote on tools, tactics, and incentives, and it was meant to give you a general uh understanding of some various tools, tactics, and incentives that we would recommend that might be used, uh different locations or for different housing types, or to uh get different outcomes that might be desirable to the city.

And so, really quickly we'll go through this.

So there's there's three questions that uh we're we're gonna look at and that we're gonna uh try to answer in this exercise we have prepared.

The first one is which of these middle missing housing types should be do you feel like 30,000 foot level?

I'm okay permitting this, and then are there any are there any that you feel like there should be a conditions attached to or incentives attached to?

So an example would be I'm gonna use ADUs again.

You know, we feel like ADUs are a you know key, potentially a key solution, and so we feel like we should explore incentivizing them.

How should we?

That's that's question one.

Uh question two are there any conditions uh that would be applied to the various middle missing middle housing types that are important to each of you.

Um then I already mentioned the third question, which which incentives are appropriate.

Uh let me go over what we mean by permitted, permitted with conditions and incentivized, permitted, you know.

Generally speaking, it means this should be allowed, right?

It's allowed in this location type.

You might say, hey, uh, we feel like uh small loss single family is an important uh housing missing middle housing type, and we would like them to permit it in uh low density zones, for example.

Permitted with conditions.

So generally speaking, this missing middle housing type should be permitted in this location type so long as some condition is met.

And so an example there might be uh, hey, we really think general ADUs are important so long as they are only allowed on uh lots of a particular size, so long as they're single story so that they can't look into a neighbor's yard, so long as name that condition.

So we've identified seven kind of broad uh condition categories, and Jake went over uh these, but the first one would be locational conditions, right?

Uh that could be is it on a unique lot?

Is it on a specific frontage?

Uh dimensional conditions, the size, the setback, the placement, uh design standard.

Is there uh specific green space that's required?

Are there specific is there a specific appearance or materials that are going to be a condition to allow this housing type?

Uh development size.

Are we going to uh permit these but with the condition that they're on a specific size of lot, or that they are within a uh self-contained, you know, new development, not necessarily kind of piecemeal throughout a neighborhood.

Uh impact requirements.

So how these will be permitted so long as the parking impacts can be, or the infrastructure impacts can be indicated, the noise uh can be mitigated, etc.

Another condition might be affordability.

So these it could be permitted if there is some kind of an income restriction, or there is some kind of a deed restriction related to you know how much the property can be sold for, whether how much it can be rented for, and then the last one is um owner occupancy.

So the it might be permitted with a condition that it is uh owner occupy or there's a specific household size or specific type.

So those are kind of general high level categories, and there might be some other conditions that don't fit within those high level categories that you might think of, and that's all right, you're welcome to bring those up.

Um but generally speaking, as we go through the exercise, we want you to kind of use these seven categories.

I'll go back to this slide when we get there.

And how we want you to think about them is again that 30,000 foot level, the type of condition, not necessarily a particular condition, but the types locational, dimensional, design standards, development size, impact requirements, affordability, owner occupancy.

So the type of condition.

And then the third option is we really think that this uh housing type should be permitted, and in fact, we think it's so important that we'd like to incentivize them in some capacity.

Um this document outlines the types of incentives that we've explored and that we would suggest that you consider.

Um so if you have questions about those, you can take a look at this.

Gensity bonuses, flexible parking requirements, flexible dimensional requirements, accelerated approvals, fee waivers or reductions, and city assistance.

So those are the ones that we've identified.

There may be others that don't fit within that category, and that's fine.

You're welcome to bring them up if there's something that you've been thinking about.

But these are types of incentives, they're not necessarily specific.

We're not recognizing, for example, at this point a particular density bonus, right?

We're not saying, hey, we would recommend that if uh the developer says that they'll do an owner-occupied unit that we should give them double the density.

We're not recommending anything like that at this point.

We're simply asking the question: which of these types of incentives are you open to?

Which ones would you like us to explore further?

Which ones would you like to consider using so that when we are drafting code amendments later, we have an understanding of where our elected officials are at.

Honestly, I think we're comfortable uh with any of these with some capacity.

We wouldn't have recommended them otherwise.

Um we are just interested in understanding which ones you'd prefer.

And so this kind of brings us to an exercise that we would like to do.

Um I hope that you guys look at this again from a really high level perspective, and with the understanding that we're just looking for your general opinion at this point, so that we know how to kind of move forward with our research, and so that we know how to move forward with uh bringing back recommendations.

And so there are four charts that we've prepared.

Uh the first one talks about conditions, permitted, or incentivized.

So those are the three categories that I just went over.

It's this one that's hanging up on the whiteboard right here.

And I'm gonna walk through this really quickly, but you have a set of stickers in front of you.

They're uh yellow, green, and blue.

The yellow sticker signifies uh permitted with conditions, the green sticker signifies permitted, and the blue sticker signifies incentivize.

Okay, and that's listed on the charts and reference it.

Yeah, no, just before we go any further.

Yeah.

The difference between those two is one permitted means no questions asked, you just come in and get your burn.

Permitted with conditions means yes, we'll allow you to do it if right.

There's some some conditions, some if some factor incentivized doesn't mean it's not conflicting with either A or B.

It just means we really want more of that, so we ought to go after that and give them additional incentives to get them here to do it.

So encouraging, not just allowing.

In that area, yes.

And yes, and so what we're hoping for is that you'll look at this in on each of these squares that are not blacked out, and I'll go over why black covering that you put one of those three stickers.

From what you know now, your opinion is that detached ADUs in all I'll say uh medium density neighborhoods, for example.

Is it your opinion with what you know now that we should consider just permitting them?

We should consider incentivizing them, or we should consider permitting them with some type of condition.

Think about what that condition might be, but don't worry about it on this chart right now.

We'll get to that.

Um if you look at the chart, the blacked out squares, they're blacked out because a majority of you did not say that that uh type of missing middle housing was desirable in that location.

So, for example, a majority of you did not say the detached ADUs were desirable in the tents, and so that's blacked out.

There's no no need for you to tell us bar graph, so we didn't get any votes, so we should black them out.

Yep, there's no need for you to tell us.

Didn't give the majority, right?

Uh you'll also notice there's some C's and Ps already written on there.

We wanted to make sure that you were aware of what's already permitted, was already permitted with some conditions within the zones in those locations.

And so earlier I mentioned that in medium density neighborhoods, a lot of what we said to preferred, it's already permitted, right?

So for example, small loss single family, twin homes, mansion style multifamily, town homes, those are already permitted within the zones that that are within the medium density neighborhoods.

Okay, the C on the cairns, so town homes, small river, mid rise, those are already permitted with conditions within the carens.

Is that Jake is that conditional use?

Is that what that means?

Um or is it just conditions built in the code?

I think it's conditions built in, probably to the design guidelines, yeah.

And then the other the there's an asterisk on some of them as well.

So we've put an asterisk anywhere where at least seven of you told us, hey, this is a preferable uh middle missing middle housing type in this location.

So for example, if you look at the low density and very low density neighborhoods, you see the asterisk on patched ADU.

That's because at least seven of you told us that's a preferable housing type.

So I I highlighted those because maybe those are right for incentivization.

I don't know, right?

Maybe you guys feel like, hey, we really we really care about those and we want to incentivize them.

I wanted to notate them on.

Um before we kind of get into the sticker exercise.

Does anybody have questions about this before I ask you to stand up?

Yeah, just uh one.

If if we were to prioritize this, it'd say, you know, if if part of the reason we're doing this is to prepare us for state putting pressure on us, right?

They're gonna ask certain questions.

Which of these categories are the ones do you feel that we're getting most pressure on?

Is it the stations?

Um where are we getting the most pressure?

Well, what's most important to know?

The answer is the answer is pressure, yes.

Will they ask you?

No.

No, just chuck it.

Um because that's the state office.

Sure.

Um, but what they're what they are talking most about right now are uh station areas and detached ADUs.

Okay, so that those are sort of that's that's where the most in the short term, what we really need to recognize areas and uh ADUs.

And generally the state is saying cities need to do more.

Yep.

Are they necessarily saying that Sandy needs to do this and this and this?

Sure, not necessarily, and Sandy may already be doing more than other cities, but in general, the state is saying cities need to do more.

Yes.

And I would say another important thing to think about tonight, and we kind of I think pointed that out are the lower density neighborhoods.

That is the air, those are the areas that will be the most difficult.

And so where we would have the most questions about what are some of the preferences, right?

What what direction should we start exploring and researching for?

And so if you spend more time on one category over another, I would say the lower density neighborhoods.

Specifically the four housing types that Jake went over, uh, where a majority of you said these are the preferred missing middle housing types within lower density neighborhoods.

So the external ADUs, the small loss single family, the uh twin homes and the mansion style.

Understood.

At the very least, we want policy direction on the questions we need to answer that are coming up right now.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

Cindy.

Definition of affordability.

Are we talking about 80, 50, 30% AMI, or are we just talking?

Below average.

What I would suggest is if if you're okay with X.

If you're if you're okay with X, but only if it's affordable, or if there's some portion of the support book, then you put a condition on there.

That's a hard.

We're not going to question the answer.

I mean the state itself with some things they said 100% 20% AMI, with some things they said 80% AMI is affordable.

I think in general we're saying, how can we make this housing?

Can this housing type be more attainable to our median or lower?

If your target audience is first-time home buyer, the affordability threshold is different.

So all we don't need to get that far into the weeds.

All we need to know is if that's a factor for you, then say so.

And we'll discuss that next book.

In other words, the if if the only way we would allow that was the condition of affordability.

Or the condition of owner occupancy.

Or the condition of XYZ.

Whatever it is.

You don't have to say what it is.

Just put a uh what yellow sticker.

Green go yellow caution.

And I guess I was saying that even the state's definition is changing, right?

So it's hard to say what the definition is.

The state's definition used to be affordability means something that's attainable to a household making 80% of the area median income.

But they're finding that that's so hard to even meet that threshold that the state is now saying, well, maybe we should do what we can't to even encourage 100% AMI or 100%.

Because if the ins if the kind of incentives we're talking about in city money, well, or density.

Or density, or even density.

But those that's exactly the sort of issue that if you say affordability matters to me.

Staff will take that, they'll go back and massage it and bring back and we'll have a discussion with the council about what the appropriate level should be.

Is what again, 30,000 foot level?

Generally speaking, are there conditions?

Are there incentives?

And uh what's important to you?

I mean, that's really what we're trying to answer here.

So the first thing is conditions permitted incentivized, and then we'll get into what's important to you.

So I want you guys to take the the time you need to go back.

Oh, sorry, Marcy.

Oh, crud, I did.

Hold on.

It was a good one too.

Hold on.

Hold on.

Yeah.

Okay, what do you think of it?

Um let's do chart number one now.

In the interest of time, be prompt because we got four charts.

So and I I worked with I I went over this all with Brooke on Friday since we know she was going to be out of town.

She built this out, and I already have her stickers on for her.

So that is what I'm doing now.

Yeah.

Oh, I remembered.

What's okay?

What's your question?

Um the tools.

Like that's going to be a separate conversation.

Right now, this is we're gonna have a separate conversation saying what would you be, what incentives are you willing to do.

And what conditions do you care about?

What tools do you want to offer?

What incentives?

Yes.

That's that's what I was my question.

Thank you.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, there are not candy on my spot here.

Well, you didn't grab the ticker back there.

Stickers.

Yes.

So I guess I use the wax and five.

So I'm reading just so far.

And she still puts it.

Oh that looks like it depends on the catch.

Like the original.

So she added basically.

It's about hard looking for the element.

But for a lot of the very questions, how small is small.

I mean the name of the button for staying five secrets.

Yeah, those other colors are going to come up here.

But all of the basically something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're already thinking through the operational part.

And so there's configuration.

Slide box or not, yeah.

Okay.

Well, that's what I could talk about.

I don't care the word.

I I'm not a hearing schools.

Yeah, so I was called.

Where the point is on the email.

So that would that would so the school is just the carbon deal.

That would offer if they failed with a library.

Oh, that's very simple.

This is just trying to play in the end.

So it's not wrong.

That's not your store.

Yeah, I I still have the sound certainly.

Let's say the color we get any color that needed to see that just the ones I have already quickly wrote there, tell them uh anywhere well my lot of one thing.

Yeah, what does it have to do?

Not quite as we order it's and that's why it's also I think some of these account you know to allow user people on scroll.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I forgot.

Okay.

By the way, there's nothing.

Okay, thank you.

We'll come back to digest this in a minute.

But in the interest of time, I'm gonna have to ask you to go on to the next chart.

Okay, so the next chart talks about the incentives.

So it's interesting because uh we have two incentive categories, right?

We got what types of missing middle housing do we want incentivized?

And from what I'm what I'm seeing, it doesn't look like there's broad interest in really incentivizing particular housing type.

I don't see a majority on any one of those where you're saying, hey, we think we should incentivize this housing type.

Does anybody want one blue, one blue, one blue, one blue, one so two blues, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, one, one, one, one, one.

So before we move on from that, does anybody have anything they want to say about that?

Is there an argument from anyone as to why we should consider or talk about incentivizing a particular housing type?

If so, I would like to add it to your next go around so we can get an understanding of what types of incentives you prefer for that particular housing type, or what what types of incentives you'd like us to think about.

So any any thoughts on incentives.

Yes.

Um small lot families.

I I I put blue there in several places.

When I'm thinking about incentives, I'm thinking about reducing barriers.

When I'm when I look through this, as far as like the different tools we have, I am focused on reducing barriers so that we make it possible.

I think that to me, small lots, single family homes build home ownership, help help people establish equity young young adults, young families, etc.

It's a huge part of the missing middle, but still feels like their own individual home.

So I think that could be very appealing.

The postage stamp size lot doesn't matter as much to them.

Getting a home in Sandy is what matters to them.

And so I do think given the right incentive, it's worth considering how to generate those opportunities.

Oh, I can see moving over here.

Okay, so thank you, Marcy.

What I would take from this, and please tell me if I'm wrong.

But when as staff we are researching this further, we're coming back with potential recommendations and code amendments.

What I think from this is don't bring us back recommendations to incentivize particular housing types.

Is that is that a fair assessment?

If we feel strongly as staff that maybe there is an incentive that that may you may want to apply to housing type, do you still want us to bring it to you?

Meaning that none of those got even four dots.

Yeah, the closest, I mean the closest, right?

We have a few that have three dots in different locations for mansion styles.

So Dustin, yeah, answer your question.

I would say most yes to the affirmative.

If we've said these are the policy directions, but it's not happening.

I don't have that visibility.

Yeah, right.

So I would sure like to know hey, we've been trying this, but we're trying isn't working.

Yeah.

And so based on our actual experience, we recommend that you consider some of these uh incentives, even though to you it may not seem um uh obvious to you at this moment in time, but if we're trying something, if we're trying to meet these objectives and we're not getting there, I'd like to hear about it.

I agree.

So, an example, and James, Jake, you guys might know know this better than me, but my understanding is when we're looking at medium density neighborhoods, for example, um, you know, these are in a lot of the zones within those medium density neighborhoods, small lot, single family twin homes, manage and style are permitted currently, right?

But Jake, am I right in saying that they're generally not being built?

Yeah, I mean it's more cost effective for the developer to attach a product, right, than to build individual.

So that's what we're hearing.

Right.

So from from Ryan's point, these aren't being built.

Seven of you have said that they're desirable.

Is that an example of something that you would be interested in hearing?

Well, hey, maybe we do think small off single family really does belong in medium density neighborhoods.

How can we incentivize it there?

Knowing that, knowing that it's not getting built but it's permitted, is that something that you would like to us to explore?

You know, how can we incentivize that?

Or does that not change your perspective at all?

I say definitely for me.

Me as well.

That being said, I'll just say one thing.

We do have a zone that has some requirements.

Brad Reynolds is building development on um size road where he is building some small lot single family because we do have a zone that requires like the like, so there's some detached single family.

So he was required to do some small lot, single family.

So those are the type of tools that we can implement more into our zoning ordinance if that's a preferred housing type.

Okay.

Does anybody else have any last kind of thoughts on this chart before we move on?

Okay.

Um okay, so well that brings me to the next chart, which honestly, my question this chart now.

Um there's two, there's two sections, right?

There are what types of incentives or the missing or the selective missing middle housing types we might we explore.

I don't have anything to put on here right now.

So I'm gonna I'm marking that off right now.

Unless somebody has comments on, hey, I I think we are interested in exploring right one of these uh uh potential incentives uh related to housing types.

Any thoughts on that?

Okay, so the next part then, and you guys tell me if you if you want to if if this particular chart is worth doing or not.

So the other thing that we can incentivize is who the housing is for.

And so we talked about first-time home buyers, workforce houses, senior housing, owner-occupied housing.

Most of those, if you're gonna require them, the way that you're gonna get it is by incentivizing it.

Generally, I mean you could require it as a condition and you might get it that way depending.

But if, for example, uh owner occupancy is something that is so important that you would like to incentivize it.

My question would be which incentives would you prefer to use for that type of uh requirement?

Is that something that you guys are interested in incentivizing even?

It's clear that you don't want to incentivize housing types.

Are you open to incentivizing uh housing for particular groups of people?

And I think while you're chewing on that Dustin has four categories listed there.

First time home buyers, workforce housing, senior owner occupied.

Um just by show of hands.

If anyone would put a dot on anywhere in that column, raise your hand.

The only one to Well, I I can't because I don't like the grouping of the house like that.

I think each different I think each different type of housing needs to be singled out.

So I could select the appropriate okay.

The appropriate uh incentive.

That's how I'm looking at that.

We're taking housing off the table though.

Because nobody said they wanted incentivize housing type.

So sure, I'll put a dot on all of them.

So what we're asking now is would you want to incentivize housing for particular groups of people?

And if so, or in this case, owner ossified.

Yes.

So mark off this bottom part.

You all said you didn't want to incentivize housing types.

So on the who, do you want to incentivize first time household?

Are you willing to give some kind of bonus if they will bring you housing for first-time home buyers work for housing?

Workforce houses in the house on their office.

The only way we're gonna get what we need.

I'm still putting a dot on all.

That's the trust.

Anyway, a great example is Mill Creek.

They allow if you have affordable housing, then they allow 25% reduction of box space.

See, that's a that's what we're missing.

We're missing the affordability.

I'm only willing to give incentives for affordability.

I think workforces.

I I don't know.

Let's add that.

Let's add that to the list.

The other.

Yeah.

So here's what here's what I want you to do on this.

This is the chart over there in the corner.

Take your dots.

You got five minutes.

All you have to do is put a dot.

And if you want to add something like affordability, write it on the bottom and put a dot on the bottom.

Because Dustin's gonna create more columns down below.

Doesn't matter what color?

Any dot?

Or yeah, any color.

We're just gonna count the number of dots.

Yeah.

Which types of incentives you want it to explore?

Electro is up here.

So my what do you ask?

We're just trying to understand which types of incentives you're interested in us is for all.

That's the question of the bonus point for Zach who got his dots up quickly.

Well, I think it's uh what is it?

Yeah, no, it's well.

I think that we're thinking we'll let us do that, but we can also try to place the hair about it.

Now this one's not code.

I asked.

I like both directory.

It was that's the original.

I couldn't put those lines for that.

Okay, you got one minute left.

Sure, no, I think.

I can fix it.

Yeah, but I think there are some expressions that could benefit first time.

Or there are specific incentives that's I understand every time.

And the incentives would build a lot of people.

But that's why I'm like, I think they're all for the batch of housing.

For the batch of issues.

Yes.

Okay.

Okay.

We ready?

I did that too, Mark.

Uh we have 16 minutes left, so we did move quickly.

Okay.

So the last two charts, I'm gonna have you do it.

They're conditions.

So there were clearly uh property types and location types where you said, hey, yes, but but conditions are important, specifically on the lower density neighborhoods for eight.

You know, four or five, I think six of you on one of them permit ADUs in lower density neighborhoods, but with conditions.

So our question now is which types of conditions matter to you.

And does this differ depending on by location, or does it differ depending upon a uh type of missing middle housing?

So what we're asking you to do, and then we will take this and we will overlay it to understand uh for example if detached AUs in low density neighborhoods both receive uh uh the same condition, right?

So like impact requirements, for example, we'll be able to overlay it, we'll be able to see uh where there's a convergence.

So what we're asking you to do is come look at this.

I'm gonna pull up the condition types, right?

That we had that we went over.

They're brought they're really high level, if you recall, right here.

So here's the condition types, right?

Locational, dimensional design standards, development size, impact requirements, affordability, owner options.

And what we would like you to do is come up and if you feel like when you're talking about conditions or housing types within the cairns, if you feel like locational conditions are important, put a sticker here.

You feel like design standards within the cairns are important, put a sticker here.

Then walk over here.

If you feel like when you're talking about detached ADUs, generally speaking, doesn't matter where they're at, or detached ADUs, you feel like locational requirements are important, put a sticker here.

If you feel like the dimensional requirements for detached ADUs are important, put a sticker here.

That helps us to understand which conditions are important to you based upon the type of building and based upon the location of that building design.

Does that make sense?

It's uh empty test ADUs that setbacks one of the factors.

Or is that under design dimensions and dimensions?

It would be under dimensional requirements, so right here.

Okay, right.

So dimensions, for example, size, setbacks, place placement on the wall.

Okay.

And what we ask you to do is afterwards, if you if you see anything that you're like, hey, uh I want to talk about this, I think it's a good idea.

No, yeah, go for it.

I have two.

Oh, yeah.

Close.

Drop it off.

Well, I think I'll understand like create those and color.

Yeah.

So the development size would be it could be a couple of example to be used in particular.

Or it might be a whole thousand just a single lot.

Oh well.

That's right.

But it is happening.

Oh I should say stay.

Oh signal for save.

That's just the uh well in our science.

If you click on the lock do it.

So it's just created that.

Okay, so you can show it or when you run upstairs that we're gonna see.

Uh she'll have to put that.

Well, I don't know.

So it has people.

Yeah.

Almost almost we're letting the send you analysis.

Make sure we can do that.

Okay.

Thank you all.

Are there any before we before Lynn uh wraps this up for us?

Does anybody have anything they'd like to say about why you put what you put where any kind of topics of discussion surrounding conditions that you'd like to bring up?

Okay.

Great.

Well I'm gonna turn it back over.

Lynn, you've got about three more minutes involved, and we'll be done.

Okay.

Uh uh thank you for for your time this evening in this exercise.

Uh Cindy was asking me, or you know, what are we looking for?

We're looking for trains, right?

We're not gonna look at specific boxes.

We'll look for broad trends here.

But this I think will be very helpful for staff.

Um the uh and I and I guess I would say thank you for your participation in all of these discussions.

We have asked you some hard questions.

Uh we know they're hard questions, yeah.

A lot of them are difficult to answer or even to give direction on.

Uh but that's why you got electrical.

That's why you get the big bucks because you guys can make those decisions.

So at least give that direction.

So thank you for doing that.

The last thing I wanted to bring up.

Uh the end of this process is to talk about a timeline.

Um and then and then next steps going forward.

Because as you know, you adopted the general client last January.

Uh staff is working in hiring consultant to do a rewrite of the code, etc.

etc.

That's gonna take a couple of years.

You want to wait a couple of years to make any difference in housing, or do you want to fast track this part?

So those revisions.

That's my question.

And you wanted an answer.

Well, my question is do you want this housing stuff to be handled with all the rest in a package that might come back to you in 18 months?

Or do you want us to take this piece out and say, fine, give your consultant all of that?

Take the housing stuff and get it done because we want somebody to be able to build some housing this summer.

I want Mrs.

Middle housing to start being built.

So that's one vote for yes.

And I'll say I I spoke with Brooke about this on Friday, and she asked me to pass along that her preference is that uh this be kind of moved to the forefront of the IL 21 rewrite, which we can well we can work on that if that's the direction.

Since I can still state my preference, I'm gonna say the same.

Get a vote.

Okay, that's two.

Oh, it's three.

Oh, three.

Yes, sorry.

Doesn't matter.

That's not a minute.

Like reliant upon everything.

No, it's it's part of the whole package.

Well, fair point.

And there are a lot of it, of course, is interrelated.

But what I really want to know candidly is are you okay if everything we've talked about in the last five work sessions doesn't come back to you for 18 months?

Or do you want the housing stuff to come back within the next month or two?

I don't see that we're impeding it.

I don't see that we're impeding the building of C I would house.

In fact, most of the applicate the single family home applications we've had have been town homes over the last few years.

Well, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Go back to the slide.

What our code allows is reflected in what we have.

Right.

So the reason you don't have more missing middle in those areas in 76% of the cities because our code doesn't allow that.

Well, so what allows it in those cases have been rezons, right?

So if so we'll continue to entertain reasons, right?

I mean and that's that's okay if that's what you want, but that's no change from the status quo.

And we don't ask for it, we might give it.

I I guess I'm not pushing you one way or the other.

I just need staff needs to know.

Do you want the housing part move forward?

Or are you okay letting it take as long as the total code rewrite is?

I think there's some big themes that you absolutely could bring forward sooner rather than later.

That's what I think.

And you know, that's what I would expect if I was still sitting here.

I would want to address some of these things where there's a high quantity of consensus.

Do it soon, because you're to the point we've made tonight, like you're gonna have to balance some legislative changes.

So that's already coming.

So I think it'd be silly to wait for everything to come together all at once.

I think the big the big chumps where there's a lot of alignment, I know I would just forward.

I'll give you a for instance.

Look over there at small family single family, small lots, single family, not very many dots, not very many conditions on it, but it's also not currently allowed.

The other comment that I would add to that is all of this stuff is editable.

It's not set it's down ever.

So I think if you were to bring some things forward, and there has to be some technical tweaks or some adjustments, like starting.

I would say staff, you know, be diligent about that and bring it to the council, but I don't see why you'd wait.

The real question is if you think we need to address housing issues, how urgent is it?

Well, why why have we put enormous energy over five different workshops if it just is gonna stall?

We're not sending if we're not signaling that this is very urgent, but urgency, then why have we been having housing workshops?

In my opinion, the housing workshops, the goal was to provide clarity so that they could move forward and start bringing bringing code amendments and and and tools that like I feel great urgency.

I want to keep the momentum of the housing workshops going.

Otherwise, I feel like they just why'd we do that?

If we were to start repository, if we were starting to bring those right away.

I mean, Lynn says, Do you want to wait?

You want, I mean, we would we would take the priorities and start working on like we would bring one for ADUs, then the next one after that we'd bring another one.

It wouldn't be like we'd bring 50 of them all at once.

We'd start working through them and bringing if if if there were some things we could do around the stationaries.

Is that what we bring in?

Do we bring the ADU as you know?

That's how we would handle it, and then later those would be certainly incorporated into what the consultant is doing if that's what you want us to do.

I mean, that would easily be put right into what they're doing, but we could work on those up front and start bringing those back to the other.

Same assumption as you just mentioned.

I just didn't want to assume that without asking the group because James and his team are going to have to alter how they do this.

But but if we go forward in a perfect world, you know, we pick whatever is the top priority.

I think it was ADUs.

That was the one that got the most votes.

Well, we bring back a proposal in January.

Right?

And then he's he's he's pretty quick.

Yes, that would be the first class.

January 5th.

So parting to live.

Okay.

Who do we hear from on that?

I don't know that we're clear on.

All right.

I'll heard from Zach and Ryan.

Allison, I got some hesitation and Cindy as well, and I haven't heard anything.

I mean, yes.

Brooks a yes, right?

That's for I think the priorities are ADUs, stationary plans.

That's where the most pressure from the state is coming.

That's where we are most susceptible to preemption from the legislature.

So I think that should be a top priority.

Cindy and Allison, there's over.

I mean, that's a we've talked about ADUs for a while.

I would wait.

And that's I think we're so quick.

And I said this before, we are so close to the session right now.

So why start it?

Well, that's and that's why exactly what I'm saying.

I mean, we are so close to it, might as well see what they're gonna say in the next 60 cases.

James's team is really fast, but chances are we won't get it to a vote because we're just saying the same thing, it might take some time to get it.

Okay, I don't want to think like that.

Um that's harder to read.

Well, you've been given the green light, James.

Green lights and start working, exactly and bringing things back to us.

Uh oh, thank you.

Um screen.

So uh next steps.

Um, James and his team are going to go to work.

Um, so we appreciate it.

Yes, they're volunteering for that.

Uh staff will draft a final report outlining sort of summarizing what we've done in the last five workshops.

Um, and then we will share that with the council and staff, and we'll go to work on specific proposals.

Um staff will bring forward additional questions that may as they may arise, but they will work out a development code specifically sort of piece by piece as we work through this process and drafting uh general outlines, code amendments and policies we brought planning commission and the council for review and consideration.

Um then any land use changes have to go to the planning commission ultimately by the city council.

So you get the last say so.

I noticed a lot of support for incentivizing with city funding or city projects.

So would that be part of this?

Bring it back, discussing different models or how to set up city funds, whether they're first-time home buyer funds or uh housing authority fund or it could be it could be.

I would say that if the first thing we're gonna do is we're gonna write a recap or a final report of what of the process we went through over the last five workshops so that everybody has it, we can reference it, right?

And then if James and his team are writing a particular uh amendment and there's room to incentivize homeownership, for example, um, using that type of the tool, then I think we would recommend it for that point in time, and that's when that detailed conversation went on.

I I think generally speaking, if you look at the incentives chart over there, not a whole lot of dots on any of those.

But if you look over here past James, at what we want to allow, either allow or allow with conditions, there's lots of lots of support there.

So probably what we would do is take the general direction here and say, okay, we're interested in amending our code to allow these or to allow them with certain conditions, right?

We may not want to incentivize them, but at least allow them with certain parameters.

That's where we'll start.

Now, when we get into this, you may come back and say, Oh, we'd like to incentivize, and you may add to it.

That's fine.

But we'll start where we have a high concentration of interest on these charts.

Bring back those.

I'm gonna just say that uh the RDA or property, right?

The RDA has some tools that are outside of community development's scope, and so there are additional discussions that probably should be held.

I think that's what the bringing up state funding tools, all of it.

I think we know where there's support, flexibility for funding, or if it's something to do that we create as a city.

Um budget season, we might want to be aware or educated, informed on what we can create this year, do it differently.

Generally speaking, at least when I've worked with planners, they tend to speak in their own language, which is hey, I'm just saying they will tend to talk about things like setbacks, density, uh review requirements.

Typically, staff doesn't offer financial incentives because that's they don't have any authority for that.

When it comes to the council, KC or the council members may want to say what we'd like to consider those.

So think about that uh as we work through the process.

That's a good point.

But typically, James and Jake and their team are going to be thinking about development regulations, easing those, tighten them up, whatever it is, because that's that's the arena they typically deal with.

They don't ever offer financial incentives.

Maybe there's a changes, maybe there's some organizational things that could happen too because some of these tools are siloed a little bit, right?

Are there ways to break down those silos as a city better work together for these housing purposes with those different tools that are out there?

So I think we have outlasted your interest attention span for this topic.

But again, thank you for thank you for the opportunity to have this discussion, not just tonight, but over the last five sessions.

I think this has been a huge step forward in terms of giving us direction and uh both policy direction and specific prioritization.

Um so thank you for the opportunity.

And thank you, Aaron.

Thank you, Aaron.

Thank you.

All right, so real swift, we're gonna break for a couple minutes to go downstairs.

We're gonna start off with uh citizen comment.

So take a few minutes, see you downstairs.

All right, uh, thank you very much for uh coming back.

We're gonna restart where we uh left off.

So we just finished off our housing conversation, so we want to move into citizen comment tonight.

And uh as we do that, Dustin, could you just give everyone a heads up on how we're gonna do citizen comment and then we'll start with in chambered.

Of course, Mr.

Chair.

Uh, if you are here in person and you'd like to comment on any city business, uh, go ahead and fill out.

There are some blue cards at the back of the room.

Just fill one out, hand it to me, and I'll get it up to the chair.

Uh, if you're joining us virtually and you'd like to comment, go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen.

And once we complete our in-person commenters, we'll move to our virtual commenters, and each of you will get three minutes.

So, Mr.

Chair, I believe you have at least one card, so I'll turn it back over to you.

I've got one Scott Earl.

Oh my goodness, so good to see you.

Come on up, Scott.

So welcome.

Thank you.

Um, it's nice to be here with you this evening, Scott Earl.

Live on Granite Peak Drive.

Um, it's the holiday season, and I just had this overwhelming kind of sense of gratitude for the city council and the mayor, and for the mayor's staff, and for the council staff for the city council and our employees.

And I wanted to stop by and tell you guys thank you for everything that you've done this year.

Um, it's been an awesome year for you guys as a team and as a city and for us as residents.

Um, the new fire station, um, it's in the right place, it's modern.

Um, it will serve our firemen well, it will serve our residents well.

The new public works facility, having administration building, and a new fleet maintenance shop to take care of all of the city's fleet is um wonderful.

And then near and dear to me, obviously, as a community center.

Um, thank you for funding that, and thank you for doing it without a tax increase.

Um, that's pretty incredible that you can fund a project like that with funds within the city.

So good work on that.

Um, I know you as a council work really hard, and we as citizens appreciate that.

Um mayor, I know how hard you work, and I really appreciate your efforts and your commitment to the city as a whole.

Um, so with that new recreation center, it kind of dots the eyes and crosses the T's with Parks and Rec um and really adds kind of an explanation point.

Um it really will work out well for our residents and for our staff.

So, really, just a huge thank you to city council and their staff, Mr.

Codell, mayor, your staff, and our city council.

I appreciate you a whole bunch.

Thank you.

Thanks, Scott.

That means a lot.

Really appreciate it.

All right.

Uh next card I've got is for Henry Butters.

Henry, come on up.

Sharky, thank you for calling me back and talking to him about my concerns.

Ryan, I want to tell you thank you for everything you have done to help me out.

This is my frustration.

Yes, the mayor did call me back.

But this is how I feel.

You don't come barking at me and telling me I can't say how I feel.

This is the open thing to say how you feel.

If some like if you're doing something, Ryan, Sharky, anybody like Sharky got slammed a couple of weeks ago.

Don't order me.

This is how I feel.

Don't tell me to not criticize you.

You work for the people of Sandy, like the mayor.

Don't ever tell me that, Mayor.

I will tell you that 100%.

I'll be on your side if you work with.

Don't come.

Order me to come down and tell that council you call.

Okay.

That's no.

That's what I that's how I feel.

And this is the public conversation.

No one has to order anybody come down and say.

That's how I felt today when I got pulled by our lovely mayor.

Okay.

Don't tell me I can't come criticize you.

I'm very grateful for the captain back there.

Me and him have worked out a lot of issues.

But don't ever tell me anybody on city council you have a problem with me.

Call me.

I am willing to sit down with you and work out situations.

That's my comments.

Thank you.

Thanks, Henry.

Appreciate that.

Don't have any other blue cards.

So if no more blue cards, let's go to online.

Okay, one final call.

If you'd like to comment virtually this evening, uh, go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen now.

Mr.

Chair, I don't think we have any online commenters.

Well, it makes sense.

Everyone's too busy with Christmas.

So all right.

We will move on.

Uh, we're gonna do uh next uh item on the agenda is the consent calendar.

Do I have a motion?

Will we adopt tonight's consent calendar?

Second.

Got a motion and a second.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

All right.

We've adopted the consent calendar.

Uh from here, um, I'd like to jiggle this up just a little bit.

I'd like to go into standing reports.

Um Zach and I will have a chance uh after we get through the standing reports.

But within the standing reports, I'd also like to pull Jeddah up so that we can hear about the recreation center construction.

So, Jeddah, let's start with you and then we'll come back over to Dustin and go from there.

Give you another 30-second update.

Um, last week I told you we were in the final stages of getting our building permit, and this week we got it.

Yay.

So now everyone can have a merry Christmas.

Um, last Friday we had a big concrete poor family board, the footings for the majority of the building.

Um, they said there was about 15 cement trucks that came one after the other every 10 minutes.

It was very cool.

It was very neat to see.

So there's plenty of videos and pictures online on Facebook.

Check it out.

Um, the city posted some things as well as Alta Canyon pages too.

Um, right now they're moving on and they are laying the forms for the foundation walls now.

So they'll do that for a little while and hopefully snow holds out till we can get a little more concrete for it.

Well, that was great timing.

I mean, having a warm December and doing a construction project, go hand in glove.

So great job on do it.

Don't know how you did it, but great job.

I that's perfect.

That's perfect.

Dustin, let's come over to you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh, not a big report tonight.

Uh, just a reminder that we are this is our last meeting of the calendar year.

Uh, our next regular meeting will be on Tuesday, January 6th here in the chambers.

Uh, we also have the council oath of office ceremony the day before at noon, also here in the chambers.

And then finally, I'd just like to express my gratitude and appreciation for uh council members meekham and robinson.

It's been a pleasure to work with you guys.

I've really enjoyed it.

Uh, I'm gonna miss talking with you each.

I hope that you stop into the office, and I'd love to go to lunch with both of you anytime.

Uh let me know.

Happy to do it.

Um, and so just just a final thank you, and it's been a pleasure to work with you guys.

And I've I've just really enjoyed it.

Thank you.

Great.

Uh let's start with council member business.

Do you want to do a separate thing?

Yeah, I just got a couple of items.

Uh thank you for that.

Um yeah, just a couple of of uh follow-up items.

So uh we did have our I I attended the Sandy Ambassador meeting uh this week.

Actually got some really good feedback from that group that I did want to pass on to the council.

So as that appointment comes back up next next go around, the member who sits in that seat actually has this feedback.

Um there's a lot of dialogue with the group just about the year and how things went.

Um, and it's a common theme did come up considerably from some of the members.

Um is that uh there there seems to be a little bit of a disconnect between the the council and the Sandy ambassadors group.

I think there's a really great opportunity to bridge that, like to close that gap.

And having the um the appointment, it was great.

I actually really enjoyed that.

That was one that I hadn't had before.

So that's that's a group that I really enjoyed getting to learn how they work and what they do for the city.

And so I would just encourage the next appointee to even just take more of an active role than what I did.

And I would say I did more than the previous person maybe.

I don't know, just continue to build on it because they are a really good group of residents that can help communicate messages.

Mayor was really great to every time I was there and we were sharing the stage, like we had an opportunity to address comments and feedback of like specifically from the council.

And so it's a really great opportunity to engage with some engaged residents.

Uh, we took the time too.

Martin allowed me to come up and have like a QA session about Alta Canyon is that as that project was progressing.

So I've just encouraged the group to use that, um, use that appointment as you know, an ambassador between the council and those residents.

Uh so I told them I'd pass that on.

And so uh I'm I'm doing as they wanted me to do.

And then the last thing that I'll mention, and this is something that happened in my professional career today.

Um we we partnered with an organization called Soap to Hope, and they do active uh outreach to um victims that are uh suffering from homelessness, um, sexual traffic or sex trafficking, and then street uh sexual street workers.

They like are actively out there every single day.

It was a fascinating group.

I'd never heard of them until today.

Um we we built um like uh a kits for their outreach efforts.

That was what you know, my team did today.

It was really great.

It was awesome.

But I I wanted to mention it because they're a group that is very contingent upon funding.

Um and they're they're a 501c3, and so they they do have some resources there.

But if you're just curious and want to kick a couple extra bucks that direction, I think they would really appreciate it.

They're doing outreach to those populations seven days a week, 365 days a year.

And it really is like a mom and pop operation.

But one of the things that really caught my attention is they're collecting data that the state is now asking them for.

So I think they're starting to get some really good attention.

So I want to give them a plug.

If you're you know looking for an organization to support over this holiday season, that would be one uh that I would uh encourage that you throw a few bucks their direction.

So that's all that I have, Mr.

Chair, and and I have a few other thoughts, but I'll share those here shortly.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

We'll keep going this way.

Alison, go for it.

Thank you.

Um so first one, I guess uh youth council had their final meeting of the year.

Um they're getting ready, kind of ramping up um in January.

We have the um the youth get to go up and uh meet the legislator.

They, you know, council is often invited, they have lunch, um, but they have some great breakouts, some great uh opportunities for for the youth to connect.

And last year they started where they were able to present and debate, but more of just uh more of just a presentation on an item.

And uh and then they were they had other high school students get up, ask them questions.

And you know, it was a wonderful experience last year, and they are now preparing for that to do that again um this year.

So they talked about some a possibility of oh, we could talk about this, talk about that.

Um they'll hammer that down in the next couple of weeks and then start preparing for uh the end of January to be up there.

But you know, a lot of a lot of kids were up, you know, here.

Gosh, I would say maybe close to 30 of them, 25, 30 of them were here for that meeting.

So, and they they appreciate everything that the city does and what they've done over the past year.

Um Zach, you know, stopped by, said hello.

Um, you know, that's uh Mayor, I believe you stopped by as well, said hello to them, and and they were just very appreciative of that, you know.

And that's and even in their little conversations, you know, appreciative of Mysterio, Ms.

Edwards, you know, and your leadership direction.

So, you know, it was a great fun experience.

And the best part is they all brought cookies and you got to eat cookies.

So, you know, love that.

Um, so historic committee, and I jumped on a little bit late.

I had a school meeting.

Uh, had to join that remotely, but uh historic, you know, talking about just what's coming up and uh you know, still a very active group, you know, looking to see, you know, if there's something um that they want to refine with tier one, tier two, contributing structures, looking at that square mile.

But you know, they continue to talk about that and keep that a very um very focused group.

Uh then the uh last thing was uh the legislative breakfast that I'm sure will probably come up, you know, Masharke uh uh mayor, you'll talk about that as well.

And what a great opportunity, you know, as the legislators are as we were up there just talking about something and wondering what the legislature is going to do, but having that chance to sit down, um work with them kind of one-on-one, hear a little bit about what some of the the bill files that they may be looking at, what they're hearing about, um, but to have that you know very close.

Here's Sandy's perspective, um, you know, to hear their their input and to get our information out to them as well.

So, you know, that was a wonderful opportunity.

I know that we haven't done that in the past, um, you know, but they have asked for that.

So, you know, look forward to to having that more frequently.

Um, you know, and especially before the session starts.

So but thank you very much.

Aaron.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I too, yeah, just wanted to express my thanks to the mayor for hosting the pre-legislative uh session breakfast.

We all seemed um fairly aligned and had great conversation, and I I really appreciated the opportunity to converse uh with our representatives and lobbyists.

Um we just finished our fifth uh housing workshop.

That's the final workshop that we started in July.

And I just wanted to say thanks to the housing workshop planning group.

There were eight or so of you in it, and I I think I may have been the only council member to attend some of those meetings.

But I know it was a really, really big lift and appreciate all the work that went into that.

And I'm really looking forward to the council acting on that um in the new year.

There's a lot of great things we can do for our residents.

Um also I've been kind of off social media since the uh election, but I got back on recently, and I just want to acknowledge all the efforts that our police department does in terms of um amplifying the messaging around safety.

There was something about some someone got pulled over, going like 18 over and they weren't buckled up and the kids in the car seats weren't buckled up, and it was just a total disaster.

But residents, please uh hear the message, slow down, buckle up, get off your phone.

So I I genuinely appreciate the uh outreach that the department does on next door.

And similarly, um, as I mentioned last week, I had I did have the pleasure of attending my first copy coffee with a cop.

That was my personalized meeting with outgoing chief Greg Severson, but it was such a great opportunity to connect and and really get deeper into the firsthand um issues about our capacity and our culture and leadership.

And um, I just have so much faith in our department.

He conveyed that to me.

And so I I too look forward to uh developing that relationship with interim chief Arnold as we continue to foster the positive connections between our police force and our residents.

And uh with that, wish everyone in the city uh happy holidays.

Thank you.

Wonderful.

Thank you.

Cindy, please.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, I don't need to be repetitive on the legislative front.

Yes, it was a great meeting, and I hope it continues throughout the six weeks of the legislative session.

It'll be nice for us to stay in contact and be on the same page and keep that contact up with our legislators as well.

Just thinking about um, because it isn't snowing, um, just all the things that our public works department does.

Normally they would be out there pushing snow about now, but they're not doing it, but there's so many other things they are doing.

They're not sitting there.

I've seen them on my street this week, crack sealing and tree trimming.

So a lack of snow doesn't mean a lack of work in the public works department.

They're absolutely incredible.

I appreciate them.

And hopefully they will have some snow to push someday in the future.

We we'd all like that.

Thank you very much, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

We will turn the time over to uh uh Mayor Zoltanski for mayor's report.

Thank you.

Well, we uh are in the third night of Hanukkah, and there's an event at uh tomorrow at Draper City Hall, Wednesday, December 17th at 6:30, lighting up with the menorah.

I'll be um joining that celebration.

And our thoughts are with those in Australia who have uh suffered uh so much violence over the weekend.

And um I did a post on Monday about being global citizens.

Sandy's a kindness city, and uh we work so hard to spread kindness throughout our city and the world needs more of it.

It's just a reminder, we're all connected.

So if anybody is uh looking for a way to express compassion, support, understanding to our Jewish community.

Um, please join me tomorrow at Draper City Hall and our friends in Draper um celebrating Hanukkah with the menorah lighting.

The Hell Center Theater uh has retired its deed on the bond, and there will be an official transfer, not really ceremony, but a photo opportunity at two o'clock.

We're so proud to be um able to support Health Center Theater, the um building of the theater.

It's brought so much economic vitality.

It's become a cultural landmark and a real enhancement to our city.

And tomorrow at two o'clock, we will be officially delivering um the final documents to transfer the deed of ownership of the property below the theater and relieving them of all obligations.

And that's 10 years ahead of schedule.

So it's kind of timely.

I thought it's a wonderful life has a scene where George Bailey burns the uh burns the mortgage at Christmas time.

And so what a nice punctuation for the year end for so much work um and so much growth and vitality for Health Center Theater.

So we joined them in congratulating uh their leadership.

Mark and Sally Deatline, their vision and for all they bring to the city.

It's just been a phenomenal, phenomenally successful public-private partnership.

And this accelerated payoff is nothing short of remarkable, especially in today's economy.

The legislative priorities discussion with uh representatives Tracy Miller and Clinton Okerlin.

Um, we met with council representatives, administration, and some key staff on Saturday.

We typically do have a pre-legislative breakfast for the public before the session begins, and that was slated for January 10th.

However, this year seems to be a scheduling um very problematic scheduling our representatives.

So we will be submitting to the city council for approval a legislative survey so that we can send that out to the community to get that feedback and share that with our representatives because it doesn't look like at this point we'll be able to have a pre-legislative breakfast like we typically have done in years past on January 10th because of scheduling conflicts between the members.

Um Dan Medina's retirement celebration for parks and uh park outgoing parks and recreation department will be Friday at 1.30 at the parks building.

So please uh drop by and send your um good and or send your good thoughts to outgoing parks and rec director Dan Medina, who's retiring after 37 years.

He and Chief Severson were so lovingly honored at the last meeting of the city council, and I'm grateful for that.

And that um brings me to well, my recog my closing remarks on our outgoing council members.

I don't know if you'd like if I could do that now or if we're going to.

I'd be happy to give you a couple minutes at the end.

So let's let's uh finish this part and then we'll get into that and turn some time over to you.

Okay, I think um, oh, there's one other development.

Um there will be a new uh there's a new position filled in the mayor's office, community affairs director that Katie Atkinson, who's our current community events director, will be coming to work with me in the mayor's office for community affairs.

So that is going to take place uh some point over the Christmas break, and there will be a new opening for uh replacement community community events director.

So some changes on our on my personnel.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Martin will get a CAO report.

Just uh wanted to second what the mayor said uh about Dan Medina's retirement on Friday.

Just really encourage you to swing by the parks office and wish him farewell on his 37 years.

130 to 3:30 over at the parks office in the conference room.

Oh yeah, then one more one more thing.

I want to need to thank Lynn Pace and the whole team at legal for their diligence on the tr handling the transaction on the Hell Theater Bond retirement.

That was a Herculean task that was been underway for well the better part of the year, but in the last two months has really come down to crunch time.

There's so much negotiation, so much detail work.

Um Lynn put in a and his team put in a lot of long hours and late nights to get that done for this week's deadline.

So thank you, Lynn.

You're here.

Thank you very much.

Okay.

Uh with that, uh, we will move into uh item number seven.

And so first we'll turn the time over to the mayor uh to give you uh a chance to say something nice about Zach, which will take some time as far as it concerns me, it won't take much time at all.

But mayor, please.

Well, actually, I I'm happy to be able to attend the council dinner, and we did some of the recognition, so I've shared my thoughts.

But I just was reflecting on actually both um Zach and Ryan together.

And a lot of people think when they think about local government, they think about the public debates or uh the nights when the gallery is full of uh residents who are upset on an issue, whether it's a safety issue or a zoning issue, or maybe they think of uh the glittering events like the galas, or where we're really representing the city and we're public facing and um you know, kind of uh those marquee moments.

But the most important work of all of us who are here on the dais is the listening, the showing up, the personal care and commitment to the city.

And since we've been working together, uh well, when I joined the council six years ago, Zach and I worked two years on the council together, and then when I became mayor, then Ryan joined the city council.

So in that time we've had had an incredible amount of accomplishment as a city.

And someone told me today that in the last four years, the city has accomplished more in four years than most administrations in prior history would have required two or three terms to do what we've done.

And then none of that would be possible without the diligence, the commitment and the grit and just um just the commitment and friendship, uh camaraderie that it takes to grapple with important issues and struggle with disagreement out of conflict uh comes consensus and resolution.

It's essential to our government, it's essential to our human experience, but never allowing that conflict to overcome who we are as people, as colleagues.

And when I think about Zach and Ryan, I think about two of the greatest examples that I know of people that I can spar with and always come back to the table the next day, and uh we're ready to you know clear the air and we move on uh together.

And we've done a lot together.

And um Scott Earl, thank you, Scott, for being here.

If Scott mentioned a few, Fire Station 31, public works maintenance facility, the recreation center, the Sandy Pace of Progress General Plan Udate, uh improved communications with newsletters and social media and the um website and all forms of city communication, all city alerts and emails, how our residents are informed now compared to where they were four years ago, and we were just clawing our way back from the pandemic.

Um part of all of the decision makings, the priority setting, the funding of um that's made it possible to land the historic landmark business investment with sports entertainment that's now come to Sandy.

Uh, from SEG at Southtown Mall, the Millers at the soccer stadium, the record number of small businesses now registered in Sandy, um pursuing uh an important global sister city relationship with the city of Bucha, Ukraine.

And most important after COVID is the comeback of our city staff and our spirit of community and Sandy since the since the pandemic, the isolation, the uh confusion, the social isolation, the you know, hyperfixation on what my needs are versus community needs are.

We've you know, really transformed our community back to the great spirit of sharing of kindness of cooperation and showing up for one another in Sandy, building that stronger, safer, more committed city than ever before.

So today, when I heard someone who is very uh experienced in Sandy history, give me that compliment about how we've accomplished so much in four years.

Uh, it's no one person that does it.

It's all of us working together through agreements, through disagreements, um, the housing exercise we did tonight, the vision setting and working with our always mindful of the privilege that we have to sit in these seats and to serve our wonderful community to make our schools and neighborhoods safer.

And uh when I've when I've needed you, you've been there with me.

You've stood with me.

And you've given me the advice that I need.

You don't always tell me what I want to hear, that's for sure.

Um, but we've been really successful, even when the answer is no, one way or the other.

It's not just absolutely no.

It's not, it's more like not like that, or not right now.

But here's how we can get closer to that shared goal.

And that's what I really appreciate.

And I think that's uh hallmark of a you know mature, respectful, professional, but still very loving, committed relationship, not just among us as elected officials, but uh our love for our city and what we do.

So thank you.

I honor you tonight.

I have uh plaques for both of you for Zach and for Ryan.

Thank you for your exceptional service as a member of the Sandy City Council.

Your thoughtful leadership and commitment to public service have strengthened the community and created a lasting legacy with gratitude from the mayor and employees of Sandy City.

Signed Sandy Mayor Monica Zeltanski.

So I have one for each of you.

I'd like to present.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, that's good.

That's a translator.

Hey, that's a great idea, right?

Thank you.

Perfect.

Okay, and to your families, uh, so many late nights and time sacrificed to all of you.

Thank you for your sacrifice to the city and what you brought.

Our city is better because of the gift that you've given, sharing your love with one with all of us.

Okay, special second.

Thank you very much, Mayor.

We'll turn the time over to Zach.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh, thank you, Mayor.

That was nice.

Unexpected.

But last time that was uh unexpected.

I was a blubbering mess.

So at least I had an idea that tonight was coming.

Um joined tonight.

My mom's here, uh, my aunt's here, my wife and my daughter Hannah.

Haley was supposed to be here, but she was on her way and got like super sick.

So she had to divert to home.

So I just want to acknowledge them for being here.

Um, so like I've thought about what to say.

Um, and and man, like I will miss sitting up here.

Like, I will absolutely miss this.

I love it so much.

It's incredibly complex.

Uh it's hard.

And not uh you've all heard me say this.

I think some other people have heard me say this, but the residents haven't heard me say this.

Like this stuff is really hard.

And the only people I think that have an idea of how difficult it truly is are sitting at this table and on the ends here.

And you guys too.

Um, but but this stuff is tough.

And I have absolutely loved every second of it, even the nights that I've left here frustrated.

I will still look back and be like, I absolutely love this experience.

It was awesome.

It was really, really great.

Um, but and I will I will miss this work so so so much.

Um, you know, I've had a lot of people like, why are you leaving?

What's the deal?

I I uh when I was first elected to the at-large seat.

I I said I'm only gonna have two terms.

I'm only gonna serve two terms in this seat.

And then I'm gonna let somebody else jump in and and new thoughts, new ideas.

That's what keeps this working is new thoughts, new ideas.

And so I'm holding true to that.

Uh I I don't know if I could reasonably say I want to leave, but I felt that that's important is to honor that that word.

And so um I got my two terms.

Thank you, voters for trusting me to sit up here for eight years.

Um has been mentioned several times tonight.

Like we have covered a ton of ground.

I I you know, I was thinking about, you know, like, oh, what do you say?

Like, do you go back to all the things you promised when you were campaigning?

And it's like, no, that's dumb.

But I think that um I do think it is important to note that the people sitting in these seats have accomplished so much.

And all of the goals that I have for myself were accomplished because of all of you.

Because of the this room, like I was able to look back and be like, there's not anything that I'm I'm leaving left.

We got Alta Canyon coming out of the ground.

There's a new fire station.

Public works, we got done.

That was a big priority for us.

Um, I would love to say that we've got all of our capital projects done.

But the fact of the matter is there's always going to be capital projects.

But the biggest, most intense priorities were accomplished.

So I can I can look back at my time up here, be like, that was awesome.

I got to participate in that.

So the goals that I had for myself, you all helped me accomplish, and then we all accomplish them together.

I think that needs to be called out and acknowledged.

Underscored, Cindy, you've been really good at calling that out.

Mayor, you were really good at calling that out.

We've all been really good at calling that out.

Uh, but I just I can't like underscore that enough, what this group has done and what I've been able to participate in over the last eight years.

I know some of you have been here for six years and coming up on four years and dot dot dot.

Like I just I just appreciate that I've had a seat at the table to work on behalf of our residents to get things done.

That is really kind of cool.

And there's not that many people that can say that.

Um so you know, I just appreciate and looking back, I'm I'm not leaving anything that I wanted to do.

There's nothing left on the table.

So uh residents, thank you so much for trusting me to sit up here, like said for eight years.

Um, this has been a wild, wild ride.

Uh and and I've loved every second of it.

And you know, you have to have approval from your residents to sit up here.

That that says a lot that you trusted me to do that.

So thank you very much.

Uh the employees of this city, like I please, when you go back to your staff meetings over the next couple weeks, like please express my appreciation.

Those are the folks that are doing the work.

It is sure as hell not me.

Like, I'm getting them the resources to do their job, but those people are doing the job that we're asking them to do, and they're doing it incredibly well.

I have loved working on behalf of our employees.

Our employees are our constituents, whether whether we think that or not, a lot of them do live in the city, but they're still people that we have to support.

And I hope that they feel that I have supported them.

I've tried really hard.

So they're good people.

Um I really will miss working on behalf of them.

Um I know what it's like to have us play around with their paychecks.

That is scary.

That is very scary.

And um like I I've tried so hard to reduce that anxiety.

So they can keep doing what we're asking them to do.

So please express that to them.

And holy smokes, I didn't think that was gonna jerk me up like that or tear.

Like, I just yeah, I I think the world of the people that serve our residents, and um they they deserve a tremendous amount of credit.

Um of you, like I've loved getting to know all of you.

I've loved debating with you, Tom.

I am not gonna miss water rates.

I'm not even gonna get gonna get close to coming back and enjoying that conversation.

I'm so glad that you guys get to deal with that because um I am not gonna miss trying to figure out water rates in January.

So um, but but I think the world of all of you, you're all really good people.

We have top-notch like department heads in the city.

And um thank you for setting culture.

Like, thank you for um telling us what you need to be able to go to your staff and be like, bruh, you know, like it's just it's awesome.

Um uh I know Shane's not here, I think he's not feeling well, at least that's what it sounded like.

Um, but Shane, um, you and uh Shane, not you, Martin, you and Shane.

Um you you've got a great thing going here.

You've got an incredible thing going.

And as a resident, I expect that now to continue on.

Like, I I don't I don't want to see that change.

And so please do everything you can to keep whatever special sauce you've got going on.

I just need you to hear that that's my expectation as a resident is we keep the top tier leadership and we keep the top tier talent that we have in our city moving forward.

Um, I think that's that's important.

Mayor, like you just said, um, I do appreciate the the opportunity to have really spirited and hard conversations with you.

And you're right, we have locked horns, but the next day we've been able to sit down and have dinner in there and laugh and talk about horses or talk about our family and talk about all the other things.

Like, I think you have an incredibly difficult job as well.

Um, and you deserve a lot of credit.

The people the persons that sit in the mayor's seat are under pressures that we don't know about.

And I think that needs to be acknowledged.

I think you handle it with grace.

Um, I appreciate our relationship so much.

Um, as a friend, as a colleague, as an elected official, I just appreciate what you're doing.

And um, and and you know, from there, and then council staff.

I love you guys.

Like, I love you guys.

You've you made me look good.

Um I've asked real hard questions.

I've asked you all to think through incredibly difficult policy with me, and you've done it.

And you did it really, really well.

Um I feel like I am leaving here a successful council member.

It's because of you guys, not because of me.

Um you prepared me so well for stuff.

Um, yeah, I I we have an incredible um an incredible group of people here that's working to support the seven of us.

And the seven of us are asking you to do really tough things, and you handle it with grace and you handle it with excellence.

And I think you need to be acknowledged for that more.

One day I hope you get a new chamber.

Um, I I hope I hope there are some new chambers here.

Um, but I I just think the world of you guys, you're amazing human beings.

You all have great things going on outside of here, and I love you guys.

Um that leaves you guys.

I I uh I was trying to figure out what to say, honestly.

Like I don't even know what to say.

We've been through a lot.

A lot as a group.

Good, bad, and somewhere in the middle.

Um, we've been through incredibly challenging policy discussions.

We've been through incredibly challenging personal events in our own lives through the course of my time sitting next to all of you.

That includes you, Scotty.

That includes my time with you know, Steve and Linda and Chris, who we're so grateful to have coming back, and Brooke and Marin and McCandless, like all of the people that I've served with, all of my council colleagues, I have nothing but respect for you.

We have disagreed on policy.

We will probably always disagree on policy, but we're humans, and that's okay.

Um I I have a lot of respect for what you all are trying to accomplish and what you all want to do.

I just hope everybody in this room knows, and all 14 people watching online, and everybody else in the city, like everybody that sits up here comes to this job.

This is a job.

You know, it's not just come on Tuesday and sit down and talk about stuff.

That's the part you all see.

There's still 30 hours of work that happens behind the scenes that you don't see.

Everybody that sits at this table from the past and the future are all here to try and make the city better.

We all just have different perspectives.

That's why there's seven of us.

That's why it works.

And so um I I look forward to to what you all are going to accomplish.

I will tell you right now, I am sad that I'm not going to be part of the journey.

Like that hurts me.

Um, but you know, that's how this stuff works.

Like you come in and you do your time and you go.

That's how it should work.

So I'll be there in spirit.

Um, I'm excited to see what you do with the Cairns district.

For God's sake, put a building there, please.

Like somebody put a building in the ground.

I think this council is gonna do that.

The next version of the council will do that.

I'm excited to see what what comes of the the stuff that's taking place at the mall.

This council's gonna have their hands on that.

Uh, the housing stuff that we spent so much time on, that is gonna have an incredible impact on people in our community.

I'm so excited to see what you're going to do there.

And so there's so many more huge rocks to do.

And I know that the seven people that are sitting up here with all the other pieces to our puzzle are going to do it and they're going to do it well.

And so I wish I was there for the ride.

But at the same time, too, you're going to have two new council members sitting up here that I think are incredibly qualified.

And I think just a lot of positivity is going to come out of that.

So the last thing I just want to say is like as a resident, you know, and I do hope, I do hope that the new council members sitting up here and what what our city government's going to look like starting in January.

I do hope that it'll that it'll turn some tides.

Like I do, I do hope that it will be a needed refresh or a needed reset button for everybody.

It's going away.

So there's a new version of people, there's new personalities, there's new perspectives.

And I would just ask as a resident that everybody embrace those and just kind of use the time to take a breath, hit reset, because I think our residents expect that.

And I know as a as a resident now, as a resident or soon to be just a guy on the street.

Um that's what I expect.

I hope everybody just understands where everyone's coming from and then make good policy decision from there.

So I have babbled long enough.

I balled and I wasn't planning on it.

And so uh, like Aaron said, you know, Merry Christmas to everybody.

This is a fun time of the year.

Um, I hope everybody gets some downtime.

And uh I look forward to what you all can accomplish moving forward.

And thank you for the opportunity.

Thank you for being part of my journey.

I've said that to you all before.

Thank you for being a part of my experience.

Like I get to look back when I'm 85 years old in St.

George at a golf course and be like, I spent eight years with great people.

I did some cool stuff, and you guys are part of that memory from here on out.

Like, I I don't know how else to say that.

You're part of my life.

So uh I appreciate the opportunity and I am done babbling.

And so um thanks.

Bye.

Well, thank you, Zach.

I'm not quite sure how to follow that.

Under normal circumstances, I would simply motion to adjourn.

But uh, I really appreciate that.

Um, I I want to I want to start uh a couple of comments, but I want to start off first of all with thanks.

Most of all, I've got to thank Heather uh for allowing me to uh do this.

Could not have been possible simply without her.

Uh and by extension, uh deep appreciation for those who uh voted for me and allowed me to be here for a period of time.

That sense of trust is really uh difficult to explain to people to uh uh to to really kind of internalize what that means.

And I think you said that very well, Zach.

The uh the amount of time that we take in order to work with people and solve problems is very, very much the case.

Our department heads.

Um I've I've been around the city um for a number of years.

And one thing that has stayed consistent throughout is such an excellent team.

And I just want to express my deep gratitude to each one of you, and but not just you, the people that you work with.

Without us working together, we wouldn't be the city that we are, and we are the city that we are in a large part because of you, and I just sincerely appreciate that.

Uh, you put in a lot of time and effort.

Thank you so very much.

Uh wouldn't happen also without the mayor.

Um, the the mayor has a very difficult job.

I'll I'll just you know, I'll second what what Zach said.

A lot of people do not appreciate it.

Having having worked for another mayor and kind of seen behind the scenes of what happens.

I thought I kind of appreciated that.

I really didn't have any clue.

And so I really appreciate you, mayor, for what you're doing to make things happen because it is difficult to be out in front of everybody all the time.

There's no break.

I remember Tom used to talk about the phone calls he used to get in the middle of the night.

And I'm like, dude, really, you would answer the phone call.

And he we would, he would, he would he would answer the phone call in the middle of night.

Now a lot of times he handed it off to a department head and he said, This is who you need to talk to.

And that's the way he solved the problems.

And I thought that was great, but that is an immense amount of pressure.

So thank you, Mayor, for everything that you do.

Administration, I wish Shane was here, but Bart, you're just gonna have to take this and pass this on.

Um, difficult spot to be in as an administrator of this city because you work for a strong mayor and you got a council and you got a number of team members that rely on the day-to-day functioning of what happens.

So a very critical job.

So very big thank you uh for what you do, what Shane does to make everything happen here.

As uh as a group up here, this is no small matter.

Um I can think of so many times we've agreed and we've disagreed, and I'm happy to say that on the vast majority of the things that we do, we we come through on a seven.

No, most of the things we do are not extremely controversial.

If you look at all the votes we take, most of it is not very controversial.

There's no such thing as a Republican and Democrat pot hole, it's just a pothole.

There's just problems to be solved.

So for the most part, they're just problems to be solved.

And I appreciate the give and the take.

Um there's uh there's nothing quite like going through budget processes because you have to, you're forced, there's a there's a timeline, and you have to make compromises in order to get something done.

Nothing happens without four votes making a budget happen.

And that's where this really happens with uh um coming together to make decisions because it's difficult.

And and no matter how many ideas each one of us has, we come to that.

And if if we're lucky, we can get 80% of what we want.

Sometimes we get 40% of what we want.

Rarely do we get all of what we want.

And that only happens through the process of compromise.

And I want to end kind of with a story of uh uh I think a way to help us think about how important compromise is in the realm of politics and in the realm of of public policy.

Uh um, I I I love I've spent a lot of time in in the Czech Republic.

I love the Czechs.

I spent a lot of time there over the years.

And um uh quick story.

There's the the first Czech immigrant who became a state legislator.

This happened in the state of Illinois, 1878, pivotal gear.

I know we'll all remember that.

1878, uh 28-year-old uh fellow who had been a United States citizen for um at the time that he was nominated to be a public official, he had been a United States citizen for 10 days.

So he spent five years here, got a citizenship on five years, day one.

Ten days later, he becomes nominated to become a state legislator, and two months later he gets elected, not as a Republican, not as a Democrat, but as a social labor party person.

So he goes to the state legislator.

Now, what is this socialist party member want to accomplish?

It's this radical idea called an eight-hour work day.

Something that we take for granted today, back then, a very controversial topic.

Um over the course of uh a decade or two, it got done.

And now what was so controversial then is today very common, an eight-hour work day.

I think in a lot of ways that public policy works and the way that we work together, ideas that at one time seemed so radical eventually become common sense ideas.

And so when we have an opportunity to think through the bigger picture and the way things operate, there's a lot of things that we can do together when we when we can go beyond focusing on the immediate needs, but taking uh a grander view of things.

And so from a perspective of working together, one thing I have always been absolutely certain that even when we disagree, I have no doubt what is in your heart.

Your heart, your heart, your heart, yours, yours, is you simply want to make the city a better place.

And for that, I cannot thank you enough.

People are often very cynical about politics and politicians.

Even though we disagree, no one has no one can question the integrity of the heart of each one of you trying to make this a better place.

And that's honestly what makes this what makes this worth it.

This is what makes this country work.

And so for those of you who the 14 of you who are listening, uh, if you're feel cynical about the way the politics works, join a city council because you will see good people trying to do good things.

Thank you very much.

I think we've got a quick presentation.

I'm not sure how we want to do this, but there's a couple of items right here.

Let's do this real quick and then I'm going to adjourn.

Yeah.

That's right.

Sure.

Let's do this and then we'll we'll mr.

Chair, happy to present these to you on behalf of the council.

Uh for those of you who weren't there, which is who were not there, which was most of you uh a few weeks ago.

We had a holiday dinner, and we initially presented these uh two Sandy Street signs to Councilmember Meekham and uh council member Robinson.

It's kind of a long-standing tradition in Sandy City that uh outgoing council members, outgoing department heads, and long serving employees get a little piece of Sandy, and that's why we've chosen the street sign.

Uh we worked with uh your significant others to put uh what's on the street sign so that it was more personal to you guys, and we hope that you take them and you can't hang them in your garage.

You've got to hang them somewhere, maybe maybe foyer, maybe uh maybe living room somewhere really obvious.

But um I I would I'd love to present these to you in thanks for your longstanding service.

And instead of doing a photo up front, I we have a uh backdrop set up in the back room, and maybe once we're finished with comments, I'd love to invite every everybody back there with families, department heads, mayor if you'd like to come and maybe we could get a couple quick photos uh before everybody goes home.

And uh with that council, do you guys want to come down front and we can present these to two outgoing council members?

All right, let's do that.

Great.

I don't often get a present thing, so I'm I'm super excited.

Does anybody want to help me?

I think you can have a council member Robinson.

Thank you for your service.

Thank you.

It's been a pleasure.

Council member.

I would use that.

Yes.

All right.

I've taken more pictures because of you than I have my own.

We probably have like less than let's do some comments on that.

If you guys would mind I'd love to go in back.

Thanks, Dustin.

I'm so excited because this is my second one.

So I'm gonna I'm gonna display them together.

Great.

You'll have two in your foyer, I'm assuming.

Okay, uh Sydney, let's start with you.

Zach, I am so glad to know you feel so fulfilled that you so that you accomplished what you wanted to.

I am so glad to hear that.

Um you you've been here eight years.

Um you were here when I started in 2020.

And we had we had a rough start because we had COVID three months into our tenure, COVID hit, and we were working from home for 15, 18 months, something like that.

That made it hard to cement relationships, to develop relationships.

It made it hard.

Um, but I like you, I am really I feel so good about what we've accomplished, and you are a big part of that, Zach.

You need to take you can take some responsibility for what we have accomplished.

When you drive around the city and you see the things that we did, you can know how big a part you were in all that.

You never phoned it in as a council member.

You never phoned it in.

You I always say if you're not um spending sleepless nights, you're not doing it right.

If you're if you are not working your tail off, you're not doing it right.

It's really, really hard.

Um and you commented about how much work there is behind the scenes.

I always talk about Tuesday nights as the iceberg of council.

It's the visible 10%, but there's so much else that we do.

Um you have always been your comments and your dedication to your job is always been interesting.

When we when Alison and I first joined the council, remember we made the news because it was six women and one man.

And it was historic, right?

And I told people it's six women and one man, and the most emotional of us is the one man.

It's just always everything comes from your heart.

I I think some of us sit up here and we try our best to just intellectually explain our point of view.

And you are always emoting your point of view.

It's how you feel, it's what you feel is right, it's what you feel that we need to do.

And um, that's impacted all the rest of us too, to sort of make sure that we're feeling the right thing and feeling like we're doing best by everyone that's depending on us.

So thank you for the eight for eight years of service to Sandy City.

Thank you for being such a great council colleague for all my time on the council.

I appreciate you.

And don't go golfing on Tuesday nights.

Come sit in the audience and uh if you miss us, we will definitely be we'll we'll give you a permanent seat in the front row.

And Ryan, thank you so much.

Um these last four years of working together, you too have been part of a group that's managed to um I think accomplish more than we probably all dreamed.

But we did it, we accomplished it.

Thank you for your part in that.

We couldn't have done it without each and every one of us making a contribution.

I appreciate the work that you did with the council as well.

It's been you've been a wonderful colleague.

I appreciate you, and we'll miss the both of you.

Thank you.

Anyone else don't feel obligated.

I roasted you guys a little bit a few weeks ago.

So I don't have much left to say other than um, as the youngest member of the council, I feel a little bit like I got gypped on the time.

Uh, but it's been a pleasure.

Um looking back on things.

Yeah, there's way too much we've accomplished to list, but I've learned a lot from both of you.

And uh yeah, what just want to say from being on this side, thank you very much genuinely for the service you've given to our city.

And uh just because you won't be on the council anymore, I will still be your council member.

So please don't be a stranger and uh we'll we'll see you around.

Thank you.

Don't feel obligated.

No, I'm just make sure I get through this without uh without crying.

Um, you know, I I appreciate both of you.

That's you know, Zach.

Um you do you have a lot of passion in what you do, and that and that comes from your dedication and your desire to do right by residents, by employees, by businesses, um, by staff.

Um and it and it shows every night that we're here and every night that we're having conversations, that we're in meetings, um, small work groups, but what you do shows in everything that you do.

Um, you know, it's I think seeing and coming in, you know, and and you had been on the council for two years, but knowing that you were an employee, both of you were employees before, you had that extra perspective, and you were able to to help us understand, help me understand, um, you know, from an angle that I I had very minimal knowledge with.

And I really respect that.

Um, you know, the the countless hours, you know, both of you have talked about how it's not just a Tuesday night thing.

You show up, you meet say a couple yeses and no's and nod our head, and you know, and then adjourn, and we're out of here.

Um there's so much that goes on behind the scene, and your willingness and and desire to talk about things has has been so helpful for me.

And and I've respected that more than I can than I can relay.

And and having you here and seeing how you're able to approach things, even when we've disagreed.

And there's been times that we've disagreed, there's been times where we have found, you know, somewhere in the middle.

Um, but you've always been respectful and understanding when we end up on the other side of a decision.

And I've appreciated that and hopefully can continue and and take those lessons that I've learned from you and take them forward for the next couple of years.

You know, this will be the fourth council coming up, but you've been here for three previous councils for each of these two years.

And and you've been a rock, you know, at a solid.

And people throughout the city know your name.

They know who you are.

And never do you I never have I ever heard anybody go, oh, Zach.

Yeah, I know that one.

Um, but that your passion, you know, with with certain rocks and certain things, specifically Alta Canyon, you know, has been has been something that has shown through, you know, times that that have been hard, been challenging, um, where it looked like, you know, well, it's just kind of stalling at this point.

And you've had that fire, and that is respectable, it's commendable, you know, and and thank you for being here and being willing.

And you'll never be just a resident.

So, you know, that's appreciate everything you've done.

Um, Ryan, you know, I stepping into this, you know, four years ago, you know, and get to know you and and same Zach, you know, with your family, you know.

But Ryan, you and Heather, um we become a family up here.

And the conversations that we've had, your your desire to look at something and then to point out when maybe I get a little too pigeonholed in one direction, and your reasonableness and willingness and desire um and strength to look at something neutrally is is inspiring, and it's something that that I have been able to learn from you, and I hope we'll be able to continue a lot and and move in that direction to say, how do I look at this from a financial perspective and to weigh out without the emotion taking part of it, to weigh out really what's best and what I can do.

And you've been an exemplary example of that, the way that that we've had conversations, you know, whether it's walking in the five Ks, um, you know, catching dinner beforehand.

But what you have to say has been has been truly helpful for me, I think for all of us to grow as council members.

And for the past six years with Zach and the past four years with you, Ryan, have been mostly good.

There's been the hard times, but um both of you will be missed.

And once again, you guys are not just residents.

Don't be a stranger, no golfing.

You stay here, stateside, but thank you for everything both of you have done.

It will not be forgotten.

Thank you so much.

I'm sure I can speak for both of us.

Thank you for your kindness very much.

Thank you for your kindness.

Just wait until my streets not loud.

Oh, and and I was just gonna say, make sure I know Dustin said you have to hang those signs somewhere, just not outside.

I don't think Ryan Cumple would appreciate that if we have a new naming of a street.

I got two of them.

Well, okay, I'm gonna do my favorite part.

Move to adjourn.

Second.

I've got a motion and a second.

All those in favor?

I opposed, didn't think there would have been.

Thank you very much.