Recording in progress.

So it's more of a little spring type verbal.

Okay.

I wasn't officially welcome.

Um Aaron's trying to join online, or who will be joining online here because you see the hand.

Yeah, I mean that's very clean.

But see your your uh still uh good now.

That's like a real estate.

We are good to go whenever you're ready.

Okay.

We'll oh okay, just so everyone knows my computer says it is five thirteen, I think five fifteen.

And that says five seventeen.

Sorry, I was watching my clock here.

Thank you.

Good evening all.

Welcome to tonight's Sandy City Council meeting.

We're grateful to have those who are joining us tonight both in the chambers and online.

Um we always like to start our meeting with a prayer, uh voluntary, of course, and followed by a pledge.

Is there anyone who would volunteer to say our prayer this evening?

Thank you.

Our father in heaven, we're thankful for this opportunity we have together as uh employees, residents, and those concerned about Sandy City.

We're grateful for this opportunity to meet, to discuss, to deliberate to do together.

We pray for thy blessings and guidance to be with us and in all we do to make wise decisions for our residents.

We're grateful for all the good things in our lives, and we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ.

Amen.

Thank you.

If we'll please stand and join together in saying the Pledge of Allegiance.

Thank you, Mr.

Jensen, for offering that prayer, and for everyone for joining in the pledge.

Over on the side with our um colleagues, council staff.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm Justin Sorensen.

I'm the council assistant director.

I'm Tracy and Counsel for the Council.

Chris Edwards with the council office.

Chris Nickel, District Three.

Cindy Sharkey at large.

Marcy Housman, District Four.

Allison Stroud, District Two.

Brooke DeSouza at large.

Martin Jensen, CAO, and like to excuse Mayor Zeltansky tonight.

Lynn Place, City Attorney.

And I need to jump over to Zoom here really quickly.

Do we have Mr.

DeKaiser was not yet?

Okay.

And I haven't heard anything from Ms.

Christensen.

What was that?

Oh, so oh, so she's excused for this evening, I believe.

Okay.

So I think that's all of our introductions.

Um we are looking forward to a great meeting, short meeting, hint and hint.

We're gonna we're gonna be efficient while we learn about a few couple key things.

Um so we're gonna jump right in.

We do take public comment, but per our policy, we do not do that prior to six o'clock p.m.

But if any of you are in the chambers and wanting to provide public comment, know that we'll I'll be watching the clock.

And um once we have an appropriate transition to public comment, I'm happy to take it.

In the back, there are some blue cards that you'll fill out that let us know you want to speak to the council tonight.

So we're gonna start with item one, um, which will be a um a good robust work session um from our partners from Galloway architects, and you're sort of managing this more than I am, but whatever you need from me, I'm happy.

So we'll just turn the time over to you.

Um what will help us is is you being really clear on what you need from us tonight so that we make sure we stay focused and give you the feedback and the responses that you need.

Wonderful.

We've got a couple of handouts to go.

Thank you.

Well, notice passing those around, just a couple of introductions on our team.

Um Scott Holmes, principal with Galloway.

Uh, and also I'm also the project manager uh for this exciting in Denver.

It's in Denver.

Excuse me.

It's not often you get this opportunity to go through a process to re envision a space that's been around for a few decades.

If you can pull the microphone just a little bit closer to the case, absolutely wonderful.

Uh on my right is uh Jim Child, our project architect.

On my left is our senior interior designer, Annette Coleman.

So both of them are also involved in the project, and you'll won't be the last time you see our faces, I hope so.

But yes, uh Justin, can we start the presentation?

So a couple of key objectives and goals tonight.

Um we had intended to take you all to a couple of facilities to witness in action, other councils uh meetings, or also talk about their spaces in particular, get dive into a little bit more of the details as we start to collaborate on what does it mean to re envision this space specifically, not only for this body, but also for your constituents as well.

So in place of doing that, we are here to walk you through a few of our projects that we have we have done over years past.

I believe a few of you have been to some of some projects, and this is intended to be engaging not only on our behalf, but also uh amongst yourselves as well.

So at any time, please stop, ask the question, interject.

I'm gonna uh we want this exercise to feel as if we were sitting across from a conference table and we are diving deep into ideas and and collaborating and making sure that we get the feedback that is necessary for our team to then respond and and and provide appropriate design opportunities and options uh that will come back to this body for consideration.

So that is our primary objective.

Excuse me, I've got it right here, I believe.

Oh, there we go.

Okay, perfect.

So a couple of key objectives of part of our discussion this evening is to outline what it means to create flexibility in our projects, and specifically when it relates to council meetings or utilizing those spaces for any other uh additional opportunities that the public can utilize and or staff can utilize as well.

So flexibility is always something that we have focused first and foremost.

We have a space behind us that is underutilized or not utilized infrequently.

So is there an opportunity to bring that space in to these meetings and planning commission or create opportunities where it's enlarged so it can be utilized in a better uh environment?

We also want to ensure that we don't lose sight and we improve upon uh the public's engagement opportunities.

Um stadium style seating.

We've all three of us have sat in here multiple times over the years in various capacities.

Uh yeah, it has its intentions as well, uh, but it also is an older model and an older vision, and so we want to make sure we can focus on asking the questions and having conversations.

Is this the right approach to maintain?

Is there a better way to go about uh staging seating and making it more flexible and more inviting for the public?

Uh increasing the use, uh the frequency, right?

Uh, I just mentioned behind us that is used in more frequently than anything, but also consider this space about how we can improve its frequency of use as well, in addition to again just council meetings or planning commission or any other public information session that uh the city has.

We also want to talk about accessibility and what do we mean by accessibility?

That's not only what's required uh to meet federal guidelines or state codes or building codes, that's accessibility for everybody.

Uh there's oftentimes we can be narrow focused and just make sure that we approach uh provide what is minimum.

We like to take an approach of going beyond that, so we are treating equally amongst uh all the citizenry but also the council body and also staff.

Uh one of the most important is future proofing, right?

This design had it had a vision so many years ago, right?

But that vision needs to be reimagined.

And so part of our process is also making sure that we are future-proofing the decisions that we make in this process that they're also adaptable in the future.

And then the last but uh certainly uh very important is talking about security.

Um, our changes and in civic dialogue and engagement have changed, as we all are aware of, and we want to make sure that we have the opportunity as a design team in conjunction with your input and and council leadership as well, that we make sure that we provide not only the visible but also talk about the uh invisible uh security opportunities that are available as part of this process.

So those are our bigger picture uh objectives this evening.

We'll talk about those and some of the examples uh and then following Jim will take us into a bigger discussion and talk about some more specific elements that are related to this project.

Okay.

Any questions?

All right, wonderful.

Well, I am going to walk you through a few of our projects.

I know, again, like Scott mentioned, I know you've been to some of these.

Um, but we wanted to go through some of them some of our design objectives as we went through these projects.

So Bountiful City Hall, our first one.

Um, I don't know how many of you are aware of the process that that one went through.

It had several iterations before it landed in our laps, and we were so glad it did.

But essentially it came down to remodeling the existing sitting hall.

What we did is we took the opportunity when we took it down to just four walls to create more functional space within within that four walls.

And we pulled their center city council um chambers to the outside of the building.

Um, along with that.

Yes, very much.

So where it was in the middle previously, we were able to pull it to the outside.

We created a new entry here.

They had two different entries on the building previously, and then created the working um spaces for offices on both sides of those.

So as the public entered in one entrance without confusion, you can see exactly where you need to go from this main lobby.

We took advantage of these views up to the bountiful bench, those beautiful mountains, the temple up there, and we created a clear story window.

So as you're sitting there, you can look up above the council chambers, and they have those windows.

The other thing that we addressed in this design was their security.

And so from the dais, we have three different routes for council to get out of the space in case there is a need for that, as well as creating ballistic panel design behind the dais.

So there's a duck and protection element to that dais design.

The other thing we did is we created a security point across the front of the space.

And so essentially, this becomes two spaces, two usable spaces.

When it's not city council, they can close this off and it can be used for community use.

So we've got public access here and through these couple of doors, and then we have secure access here, secure access here for that back of house for the council to remove themselves from that space.

Right adjacent to it is that council workroom.

So council can enter from here as they're finishing up a session here, or exit here as they're starting a session in the main area, as well as the back of house space from the offices.

So that was our design on this floor plan.

This is that public lobby.

We have the windows from that viewing, similar to what you have here.

So if somebody were standing onto the lobby, they could still see into the council space.

Again, that public lobby, you know if you're you know which department you need to go to based on that first entrance.

And then in the council chambers, there are those clear story windows we talked about.

I wish we had a better straight-on view, but I couldn't find one.

So you could see up into that view there.

Um, and then that's our curtain, and it drops down from the ceiling, and that's with the curtain closed.

So it becomes a usable space with the monitors and also with a whiteboard on that curtain.

Couple other photo.

A couple other things to point out.

Um that divider achieves multiple functions.

One that secures the dais space.

So if you had to have another small little function back behind there, but separated from the public, you could do so.

But more so it maintains the for instance all this equipment, right?

That is true to this dais is also then protected.

If there's another function that needs to be held, uh, it provides that as well.

Uh you can kind of see on the right photo, right side, there's there's the hint of white.

Those are those are marker boards.

Um I I got the experience to uh be in the space in a in a public session uh for one of the parks projects that the city undertook and and have public there, and we had a very engaging session utilizing that whiteboard, and we essentially filled it all the way across with ideas with post-its, large format post-its.

Um it really did serve its intended purpose.

That gives you an example of what can be done when you divide a space in the proper ratio.

All right, and then we'll move forward, and this is that council workroom conference room off to the side of the council room.

Part of our goals for this project is to create and reinvent that council.

That space behind here for you.

So one of the main elements is also thinking about how many perimeter seating opportunities do we want to have.

Um, there may be times where you also can invite the public or have to have the public a part of your sessions and or other staff.

So we want to make sure that we balance appropriately not only the needs for for the activities themselves at the main table, but also its perimeters.

All right.

West Jordan City Hall.

This was uh again a complete remodel in a different fashion because we still had some existing elements that we had to work with.

We couldn't completely get the space.

Um they did try to occupy through construction, but we found that that just didn't work for the um magnitude of what we were doing in the space, and so uh main lobby, and the council is up here on this side.

So you have an elevator access, stair access on all sides of this one.

Um I believe some of the toward that one.

I believe some of the open toward that one.

So this is that third floor council chamber, and actually the entire council space that we created.

You have your public access from that main atrium on that third floor, and then the restrooms available for that public access.

We have secure points here, here, and then off the council chamber.

This one was unique in that we were dealing with the existing council dais.

We were not changing that.

The only thing we did was add ballistic paneling behind there.

But as far as the actual design and layout of that, we were not changing it.

So it was really a finishes upgrade and security upgrade for this space.

Again, you can see we have our council travel routes that can get you to that council workroom or into the council office space.

They have a flex office right here.

So if you were meeting with somebody right off of the council chambers, you could bring them into this space, and that room was secured here and here.

And then there was a lounge space for the council, and again the offices and lobby reception area for that.

One thing we did add here again was that curtain to protect this back space, and this becomes another usable space in any kind of event where they needed something, just maybe a work session for a different department.

We do we do know going into this design that West Jordan seems to get a lot of civic participation from their community.

So that was something that we definitely had to be mindful of.

And that'll be part of our discussion here after our brief presentation.

And then just the finished we did rescan the dais so it matched the remainder of the building as we updated those wood colors, and then just paint finishes, PARPA new furniture in that space.

This is the area where that divider curtain goes across.

And again, we did provide a divider curtain with that whiteboard space, again, making it usable for those work sessions if they needed to separate that.

And then the council see if this works.

This is not going forward, Justin.

It's going backward, but if you want to take that forward one.

This is the council workroom off that east side of the room.

So they do have that perimeter seating in this space as well as that council conference table.

One thing we did in here, the ceilings used to be between here, and so they had all this empty space.

And I mean, you guys know the roof line on that building.

In this and another space, we were able to capture more ceiling space for those rooms just to help them feel a little bit more welcoming and open.

Yep, absolutely.

It was quite improved by the before we leave this slide.

A couple other things to point out.

In the right image, you see the two doors in the closed position.

Those two doors are access controlled.

So that is our security point to get into backup house, staff area, or council work areas, etc.

So there are areas of refuge available, but we wanted to make sure that that secure point was strict and unique.

Behind the plane of the TV on the wall lies a secondary door in the corridor that is also controlled.

So the decision in guidance with the council and city administration was to maintain the one point of access that is in the the door with the in the open position that allows public to move freely in and out when public is allowed in set space, or also be utilized by administration or other departments to hold an administrative level meeting or a department meeting.

So again, keeping in mind flexibility, building in those opportunities where they are available.

One thing that we do like to do in our design and design objectives as we work with our clients is creating spaces that don't just sit empty for a majority of the time.

We want to make sure that they are usable so not every department may have a conference room who can share these conference rooms, you know, and these spaces so that they aren't just sitting empty because real estate is expensive, and so we want to make sure it's usable and also just that image to the public that you guys are using these spaces.

Can you go forward?

There we go.

Lovedale City Hall.

Um have any of you have been out to this one?

Yeah, it's a nice space.

Um so this one is unique in that it shares the courts, and so we do have some spaces up here.

So we've got some holding cells, we have this secure point here, but we also have um where they pull out the um magnetometer uh for scanning, and then they also wanted to create that community space.

So this is one full space if they needed to utilize it.

We do have that secure point here with the divider curtain.

We also have another secure point here with a divider curtain to create just that space with the dais behind it.

Um we have that the council conference room right directly behind there.

Again, that secure point here and secure point here, creating those areas of refuge.

Um, and then the public can come and enter in these spaces.

Again, what we created here was that central lobby.

As people walk in, they know where they're going.

They can look one direction or another, and they know if they need to go to one of these departments or into that community courts or council space.

And so that was again another unique one in that for the protection of the data is we have one here for courts.

If it's a smaller case, they have that here, or they can open it up for the full space.

If it's a larger council meeting, they know they're gonna have more community engagement for that space, and then this is just available for community events if they needed to just utilize that space with that secure point there.

Anything additional on this one?

I don't think so.

You covered it well.

Okay.

Uh again, the dais um serving as also that courts bench, and um this is you can see one of the curtains.

This is that first curtain here, right behind that dais, and so it closes as it closes.

And the next that is not working for me, apparently.

There we go.

So this is when it just opens up to the court space or a smaller council meeting where you can have that closed, or again that curtain with that closed to protect the dais in a community event, and that open lobby with the entry points over here, the door entry door here, where they can have that view of where they need to go.

Very similar to what we have here in existing conditions.

George City Hall, this is our most recent one.

Um you might want to speak up on some of the design elements on this one, but again, similar design spaces trying to keep all of those together, but also create that community space.

Uh, we have that central atrium here, we have the public entry here and here into those spaces.

We have a divider curtain here and here to create again three different spaces with that protection of the dais.

Uh the dais was actually instead of ballistic paneling built out of cinder block.

Um, so it is really solid.

They have that definite protection there, but they also have those areas of refuge where those doors that they can come out of where we have secure point here and here, as well as a secure point here.

Um, and then that council workroom just directly behind that.

Was this office a council office?

Yeah, that's a council office there.

Um, and then the council workroom here, which we are actually maybe not maybe not.

Yeah, yeah.

So they changed it actually a little bit, and you'll see in the pictures.

Um they went with a shorter table because they didn't have as many members, they didn't want public sitting at the table, so they just want council or city staff sitting at the table, and they created some um assembly seating back in here as well as perimeter seating on this one, and you'll see that in one of the pictures that we go through.

So public, the atrium space, these are our entry points here into those council chambers, community rooms.

This is the council chamber with the dais right up in here.

Those two doors back there are those council secure points.

Oh, too far.

Oh, and then this is the council workroom.

So as you can see again, they shortened up that table so they could create seating back in this space if they have more people attending, and then that way they don't have public sitting around the table with them.

Um they're separated from the council during those work sessions.

So that's there it goes.

Yeah.

So go ahead and go to the well, we've taken you through a bunch of different examples, and we we can keep going on this because of what we've got.

The first two that we looked at were really remodels.

The second two that we looked at were new construction, so we were a little more freedom to do what was whatever was wanted there.

But I think the the number one the number one uh discussion topic as you'll see on here that we want to talk about here, is really what do you want to be able to use this space for?

You're right here as you walk in the front door.

It obviously right now is very specific in its design.

It works for your council meetings, it works for your uh you know, uh planning commission meetings, those kinds of things, but that's about it.

It's not being used.

I mean, I've been here in this building enough to know that most of the time I walk in here, this building is this room is dark and not used.

So my question becomes for that I'm gonna ask you, so we're gonna want some feedback from you guys is one of the major goals that we've looked at on this is how to take these areas and make them more effectively used from more flexible use for other events.

Currently, you do have space on the third floor that you use for some.

Do some of those activities have should they be happening in this area, not near the front door.

And so the question is feedback on that.

Any any thoughts any of you folks have had council members?

Yes, Ms.

Nickel.

To give you a little bit of background on why this room was built this way, it was built to do community theater.

Right.

So I knew you it works as a stage, but it hasn't been used that way for about 10 or 12 years, I don't think has it.

Yeah, it's gotten since the program has grown, so it grew out of this space.

Sure.

Um so the challenges here are with width and depth, right?

They're they're quite small.

And but this room, I uh I'm not the one to ask what to use this room for because I only use it for one purpose, right?

I think staff can answer the question better with regards to and I mean listen to the council too, but I I'm not the right person to ask how to be used, other than for you know, flex space, and I've heard other um department heads say we need another space, like we have the multi-purpose room upstairs, and so that would be a multi-purpose function.

One of the things we've been able to do with a lot of these facilities.

In fact, maybe we can go back to the plan of uh let's see.

Is that gonna change?

It's this one.

Oh, this one, sorry.

Okay.

Let me just go back to this plan for the St.

One of the things that we uh is that the which one's the that's the that we have.

This this is obviously larger than what you guys have.

They have very heavy participation in person at their meetings.

So they deal with that.

But the point that we looked at here again is creating a flexible space, as you say, it can be set up for council.

Normal council meetings probably use this area here, although they do you leave it open because of the great views going out of the windows.

But the other is to be able to close off the actual council dais and protect it, and then the rest of this is a functioning community room for other kinds of events.

Uh if you follow St.

George, since they've opened this building on social media at all, they have all sorts of awards and presentations and recognition of different people.

It always seems to be in this space here.

That's what the background is.

They use that for all these kinds of awards and recognitions.

But then, as I say, then you've got off of that right behind is the council workroom.

They are also a council that meets before their meetings typically and then goes into the council chamber.

So they have a pre-meeting.

Oftentimes it includes dinner too.

And I don't know if you if you're into that mode or if you want to get into that mode, but that is that's so that flows that they would be back into this area, and and food is all often brought in, and then they then they flow into this area here.

This is set up with also a catering kitchen with outside access so that for events, other kinds of queuing events, they can cater and have food in this area for other kinds of events too.

So you see what the object is with some of these that we deal with now, and most of them that we dealt with in the last 10, 15 years or more, is flexibility.

Is can you have yes, you can have a very formal council meeting, but yes, can you have an open house?

Can you have a work session?

Can you come another, can you planning have a have a can maybe you need to have an eight-red council meeting in here or something like that?

Can that house that sort of thing?

So that's really the usage that we and so the question I'm gonna ask you is is that the kind of flexibility you want?

So I have to ask that.

Go ahead.

I you know, I can what Chris just said about maybe we're not we're not definitely not the only body you should ask that question of, right?

Sure.

Uh this we know this room is used for other purposes, um maybe not as often as you would ideally like to see as an architect, right?

But we do employee trainings in here, we have different events, we'll have school groups come in and use this room.

Um the message that I want to make sure you understand from me is that I want to put a lot of emphasis in designing to the budget.

So when you ask me unlimited questions about I it it it worries me a little bit.

I don't want to give you feedback that is going to create a three million dollar remodel instead of a one million dollar remodel, right?

But I'll I'll circle back to what you said.

Um yes, we do have a multi-purpose room that gets a lot of use.

On occasion, we'll it'll be double booked, so we'll use people will use this as the second room.

Um we do have the overflow room back behind you too.

Just open the panels and you have a larger room.

Um that over the years, many, many, many different uses out of that room.

Uh right now we're kind of just using it for council dinners before our council meetings, but that the conference room behind us used to be used for that at one time too.

That might be the room that gets the least amount of use is the uh council meeting room behind us.

Um yes, I have been to some of these um I wouldn't want to have seating much less than what we've got.

I would say opening up the rear panels for more seating maybe happens on average once a year, maybe twice a year.

Sure.

Where we've got an issue that comes up that or a meeting that's scheduled where we're expecting you know more than a hundred people.

Um but it is it is pretty pretty rare.

But on the other hand, um if we're I this is a question I would have for you guys in terms of designing the amount of seating.

While maybe we definitely have more seating than we need for a typical city council meeting, but it also gives people the opportunity to spread out, right?

And so I'm hoping we're not designing for 30 people, which might you know, we don't want to put people in here like sardines.

I have been when we were at the West Jordan, I looked at it and I thought, oh my gosh, this is way too small for us.

I was just in the in the overflow room thinking this is about the size of the West Jordan council chambers, maybe a little bit narrower.

Um I think we're used to spreading out a little bit, and so we would want that.

Can I address, although you didn't ask you asked the question about multiple uses?

Um that this general layout, the question of stadium seating versus race, Jack.

Push your two of that.

Do you want to do you want to lead into that?

Do you want to talk about pros and cons before we give you feedback on that?

I'm very interested in that sense.

Well, I will tell you this.

The go ahead.

You want to add to that?

Yeah, I I want to make sure we we sort of everyone gets a chance to answer that first question about do you want is flexibility a priority to you?

And then can we go to that?

That's great.

Okay.

Mr.

Sousa.

Um I would say that flexibility is really important.

I think you know, this these chambers haven't been remodeled.

I don't have they ever been remodeled?

No, they've just been built and they've existed.

And so this might be the one opportunity that we have to create the experience for another generation.

Um I want to make sure that we do it right, um, considering our budget.

Um, and and I I really appreciate thoughtful design, and when I'm you know, listening and looking at all of the the different design options for the spaces and the needs and the uses, you know, I think I think it has been pretty thoughtful in can in um uh terms of safety and uses and um public versus um employee um access.

And so, you know, I really appreciate uh appreciate that thoughtful design.

Uh I would say that flexibility is really important to be able to kind of future proof considering all of the different uses that these spaces or spaces that we use or um other aspects of our council um uh work uses in other parts of the building, trying to figure out how we can incorporate all of those uses in this space that we have, I think would be my main goal.

And so we do have, you know, there is a multi-purpose room for the entire city and all of the departments and trainings and whatnot on the on the third floor.

We do need that is kind of a multi-purpose room that never gets used except for one purpose.

And a lot of that I think is uh setup and takedown is hard because it's there it's just an open room and it hasn't really considered potential uses in those spaces.

Uh so for example, I think we went to Murray City Hall too.

I we I toward Murray's and mid or West Jordan's more specifically.

And like Murray had uh an area, was that Marie?

Yeah, in their work overflow area that had um a bank of cabinetry where they had that you could do food setup too, is kind of what I'm saying.

And so there was opportunities for chairs and tables and food setup, but at the same time it it just had a countertop that had access.

And so those types of multi-purpose um uses I think would be really important in the design.

Um and if that's all we're talking about right now, I'll leave it there.

I think a lot of it it does deciding because it does bleed into that stadium seating versus raise you know the the dais component to it, you know, with the flexibility, because if we kept it like this, then our flexibility is limited to fixed seating.

Uh I I like the idea of having I I really do like that idea of having flexibility.

Um if it's dependent on, you know, we have a budget here, and if it's dependent on, well, you've just used 40% of your budget to try to make this into a flexible space because we had to level out the floor, then be like, nope, we're good, let's let's stick with this.

So I mean it is a lot of it, I think is you know dependent upon the budget and what we're looking at.

Um, you know, we we use this as a city, we use this for a variety of things, you know, for for quite a while for um, you know, the fire department would come in and use it for emergency management meetings.

Um police department has used it for community meetings that are larger where it's more accessible.

Uh we've had you know various resident groups, we've got the planning commission that uses this on a regular basis.

Um a lot of different reasons, and for the most part, I I can't say that this the I the flexibility, it has worked.

Um, you know, there are some issues because you can't you can't bring in tables, you know, and and have that type of flexibility to it.

So you know, I do think it comes to that dollar amount of what kind of your next question to it.

But flexibility is never a bad thing.

So that's a yeah, dollar amount.

Great.

So I'll I'll share my thoughts as well.

Um to share what I've not yet heard so that you kind of know what I would add upon yes to flexibility.

What I've not yet heard is the flexibility I would say um we've not considered that I want to make sure we consider is the ability for the council to do work sessions here.

I I very much prioritize the ability to sit elbow to elbow, sit around the table.

Um right now, we've tried it in the back.

And when I in my first term we we did a couple back there, and it it just was um very awkward and difficult for a couple of reasons.

Difficult for the public to sort of sit around and watch, and difficult for the the voice recording, the video like to to provide the online experience that I think is really critical.

So as we prioritize flexibility, that's part of it that's important to me is a workshop setting that works.

I don't want to go up to the third floor.

I want us and and so based on some of the things you've shown us, that is possible with flexible use.

But I also want us to prioritize the the experience of residents and whether it's a virtual experience or an in-person experience.

So I want the audio visual experience to come into play as we are thinking about flexibility and and making sure that no matter where in the space we choose to operate as a council, we have the ability for the public to be involved and feel that they are seeing and hearing things and not shortcut um that experience if we end up, for example, moving back there.

So yes to flexibility, but those are the additional things I would layer on top in terms of of what I'm looking for.

And I think you've heard it already, but budget is obvious.

And then I'm a big fan of what would you like come back to us with here's what we've heard from you, here's your budget, what would you have us prioritize?

Yeah.

And and obviously we'll give me one second, Madam Chair.

Uh Councilmember DeKaiser has his hand up.

I did not see it.

Thank you.

Great.

Perfect.

We'll have will you let him come up?

Mr.

Kaiser?

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um, just for my two sense, flexibility is important.

I liked what I've seen in the designs about a uh divider and uh modular seating, I think would be good, but I also just wanted to echo what the chair said with regards to being able to work around a table.

So as I've looked into designs, there's uh chambers with more of a circular or horseshoe type dais.

Um I I think that would get to what uh the chair is speaking of, but uh yes to flexibility, thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

DeKeiser.

So we've heard from everyone.

So then did you want to just kind of naturally pivot into this?

Let me let me let me mention one item here.

Um we're obviously very early in the process, so for us to say yes, we can afford this or not afford that, or that we're not quite to the stage where we can accurately say that, although I think that the uh potentially leveling of the of the space has always been a kind of consideration that we we don't we're hoping that that's not gonna blow the budget, because we one of the things that that I will tell you is this that as we work with the council chamber, we try to work with the balance between yes, there's a certain formality that you're trying to have and to create a court, you know, that that type of setting, that formal setting to deal with that, and you want to have a certain level of that, but on the other hand, you don't want to be so removed and so unapproachable that it's that it's not inviting that you don't working with dialogue there.

And so these designs we try to deal with, and that's is a height, it's how curved it is, and how you know the design of it, all of those things factor into play with that.

Um as I say, I think what I'm hearing right now is the leveling the floor, getting rid of the stadium's type seating is probably one of the first things we're gonna look at.

We really are to try to deal with the flexible seating there.

We hope that that could really solve a lot of those things.

Each of these facilities that you looked at is set up so that you can deal with those work settings, work sessions.

If it's a small work session, it may be in your council conference room.

If it's a larger work session, you know, you use we try to accommodate that out in the space.

And that's one of the reasons that those divider curtains or those divider walls are used, is so that you can set that up that way.

And and the audio visual goes right along with that, so that you're however you're organizing that space, the audio visual works with that.

So I think those are those are probably the biggest thing.

Uh we've heard some comments about capacity that you, you know, what is it, what is a typical kind of capacity that you want to make sure the main room seats, but but that once or twice a year, if you have to expand out, open some doors and expand out through there.

That's probably that's the goal that we're after.

So as we look at that capacity.

Um that's in the right sizing and the design of it there.

Um the maybe to talk just a little bit about the council suite behind too.

Well, no, go ahead.

Yeah, is this just if you could pause right there?

Yeah, we have we have a question from council.

I didn't mean to speak to capacity.

Yes, go ahead.

This is about the typical crowd that we see, and there are what 10-15 people here.

So I would have I would generally say that we could um reduce the amount of um seating and still be fine.

And I think it's critical that we are on the same level of the people.

Being up here, it's intimidating and menacing and scary to people.

And I don't want it to be a bad um experience when they come here.

We need to be right with the people, and so even making this the chambers and and dais smaller would still work, and I think it would give us a give residents a really good feeling of they're in this with us.

So just some thoughts on that.

Any other thoughts on capacity?

That's sort of the next bullet point, so we might as well just explore.

Unless like I don't I don't want to preempt anything.

Okay, you're great.

Go ahead.

I think we need to make sure that the capacity is we're also considering the other uses for it.

So that's a you know, planning commission, what their commit capacity looks like, or when we have other meetings or presentations in here, you know, and that does fluctuate a little bit.

So I would just say similar to council member uh Nichols that this room has roughly 130 seats, and there it's it's very rarely is it full.

I think that in all of the years I'm pri previous to even being on the council and being a member of the public in here, there was maybe one year and it was a tax truth and taxation meeting where people were lined up and the back had to be open.

So I think that there is room for capacity.

Nobody sits real almost nobody sits in those front seats.

It's almost too close to the podium, and I think it's kind of uncomfortable, or you can't have a visual, you know, you can't see.

Um so I do think that there's room to reduce the capacity maybe in the main chambers use, but again, considering multiple uses, um, you know, having maybe opportunity for partitions to open an additional seating to exist easily when there are other uses, or we are expecting a larger crowd given you know the agenda or you know what maybe the planning and commission experienced in their meeting the previous week or whatnot.

So yeah, capacity can, in my opinion, can be reduced on a regular councilman Sharkey.

Do you have anything on that?

Capacity.

I I would share one of my favorite uses of some of the the buildings in our in our city are when we hold open houses, which are not sit down and listen to us talk.

That's right.

They are, you know, the walls all around the outside.

We have posters and and they they they walk to the posters, they learn about different things, they share their input, they ask questions, we get to interact with them, and it's and so um in terms of capacity, I would hope that this becomes the space that we are able to host those and and have uh it and I also recognize that there's value in in doing those kinds of open houses in various ways, but there is something also really neat of inviting it to be in City Hall, you know, at the city center.

So that would be the piece of capacity I would ask that we consider is yes, I think we could hold meetings with fewer seats, but I don't know that I want to shrink the physical space uh as much as just keeping in mind that standing and conversing and space for so another example.

This was actually I think I can't remember if this was before or after COVID, but but we did some open houses where we did workshops like with residents.

So we wanted the space set up with round tables and they had protocols and and and yeah, and they moved from table to table.

And so that's another way I'd really love to use this space is so that there's the stands and poster type conversations, but then there's the tabletop conversations and um and and creating and ideating, and so that's that's the capacity I want to make sure we can accommodate is flexible space, back to what we said first, but also true true problem solving, brainstorming, collaborating, feedback gathering, which needs to take all kinds of forms.

So I want this the space to have the capacity to do that comfortably here.

Okay.

No, you've you've you've nailed it, right?

Exactly what we wanted to.

It's where we're that's what we thought we were hearing.

That's what we think you we want to suggest to you and we want to propose to you.

And so it's great to have you reinforce that.

You're you're we're right right in line.

Yes, agree with what we're trying to do there.

And so it is.

And we have sorry, before you move to the next bullet, if we could, Mr.

De Keysers wants to weigh in on that.

Mr.

De Kaiser?

Thank you, madam chair.

Just in terms of capacity, one thing that I would like to see is a larger uh like presentation style lectern.

Oftentimes uh we have a group of people presenting to the council, maybe three or four people, and in my mind it's a little bit awkward as they get up from the chairs and come to the podium and sit down and stuff like that.

So it'd be nice if the uh if the presenters were fully accommodated when they come to council meetings.

Okay, good.

Thank you, Mr.

DeKeiser.

Yeah, that's wonderful.

Council, any other thoughts on capacity.

Yes.

So I may end up coming back and filling in some of the gaps, you know, as as we when we wrap up, but in terms of capacity, I see here I forgot the visual participation, and we do have quite a bit of visual, virtual participation.

Um we do have quite a bit of virtual participation.

I mean, as you can see, our council member is joining virtually, and that is a uh a frequent thing that one of us may need to do um as well as the public, you know, having uh the public have access to our meetings virtually through Zoom is important, and so making sure that that virtual experience is well thought out and considered.

So I you know, we we've kind of I feel like we've probably patched it together as that technology is come into play, um, but it's not optimized per se, right?

We've just kind of done what we could to make it work.

Um I've been to, like I said, the West Jordan City Hall and the Murray.

I liked the council conference workroom at West Jordan.

Um I like that they had seating around.

I like that it was optimized for virtual.

I liked that they would um like pump the the feed, the video feed from that room into the main chambers for overflow if there were more residents that attended than they had seating for in that room.

Um I personally like the idea of having a less formal um option to have some of those discussions, even around a dais, even if it's lowered or whatnot, it still has a more from formal presence than sitting around a conference table having you know conversations and we would do that for a purpose, and so I don't want to eliminate that purpose, but um so just for from a capacity standpoint, being able to mix even even in person, the virtual and in person at the same time, I think is an interesting idea for capacity that I wanted to point out.

Yeah, absolutely.

That's that's an item that's on our on our list as well, and part of our initial conversations with your council leadership.

So we do want to create a balance.

Uh it doesn't make sense to have 50 empty chairs and have 50 people online and and try to think of where we can create those opportunities that makes it more affordable for the project.

Well, I'll go ahead and I I wanted to hit on what I know we're running up a little bit more past six o'clock hour.

Um I do want to talk a little bit about this uh the layout of the dais.

In the examples that we showed you, um there was multiple uh versions, one was similar to this, and in the example of St.

George, uh where councils first and foremost in front, same with planning commission in that session, and then and then uh staff is in administration flares off on either end exactly how you're set up now.

The some of the other opportunities, West Jordan uh Bluffdale, uh and well, those are the only other two examples that we showed you uh have staff and administration um perpendicular to the days.

So instead of the continuation of the circular visual perspective, that gives an opportunity for staff to then either have a better cross communication or coordination, but also a visible connection.

Um so for instance, if if if Ms.

Edwards uh needs to uh have connection with council member nickel, instead of doing the complete turn to the side, right?

You have the opportunity to just have a a change in and turn of the head and have that visual connectivity.

Uh that's a different example.

And so you witnessed that at West Jordan uh as well.

There's much longer, there's a lot more staff that they invite to count uh participate in council sessions.

Uh that's something else that we want to balance and ask the question is administration andor council expected to increase that capacity moving into the future, or do we want to have more in mind that we're creating flexibility and maybe a different blended approach to bring those side aspects and participation in a different arrangement?

So that's also part of our uh our exploration uh with this body as well.

Nickel?

I the visual appeal of a um U-shaped diaspora.

It looks good when you're looking here, but I I would be hesitant to say that I want um squares rather than a circle here because I like to look at people when they're when they're speaking, and I get to see the council members and I get to across.

And um this isn't awkward to me to have, you know, if we needed to pass something along.

We could make it the dais smaller, but for me, I don't know how anybody else's perspective.

I really like to look at people when they're when they're talking.

So I think typically what we're talking about here is a it's it's a combination of both.

I mean still there's still uh yeah, you can go to the let's go to this example.

So this this gives you an idea uh this is out of Bluffdale.

So the two side arrangements, podium and the centroid uh there uh allows uh recorder and or um uh city manager, city attorney, city engineer, community economic development to also then participate.

That is that is the reference in creating that connectivity uh in a different geometric uh layout.

That's a five-member council, so ours is seven.

Uh in the bountiful, I believe, but Jordan has a similar uh similar uh layout as well.

It is their separation between the main data and the adjacent sides.

I was just looking at that.

Uh those weren't uh attached to nice.

Is that make it more flexible when moving?

Can those the two on the side be movable or can you move them?

I don't believe those are in this instance these are fixed.

We have done that where they are movable and can be kind of all squished back there and then curtain closed.

Or like if we did want to have a uh tabletop and we could face those way to kind of bring that experience.

There are some opportunities like that.

We we did that at um uh North Ogden.

Um the facility is is first and foremost their public safety uh space, but um it also serves for their municipal core.

Uh in addition, through design, there was instruction that they want to transition to also include council space.

Pushed us back if a few weeks and months, and we had a retool and rethink a couple elements to accommodate all, meaning training, public sessions, court, and council.

Um the decision there to house an administrative staff and or department heads uh was to just utilize uh movable tables.

So uh ahead of those sessions, they would bring those tables out, set up the monitors.

That seems to be acceptable for them and work for them, quite frankly.

Um not saying that that is something we want to incorporate here, uh, but to the point of creating flexibility, that is a way to do that.

So let me reintroduce myself.

I am the tight wad of the council.

That's right.

Um for me, it's easy to make decisions about is it worth the taxpayer expense?

Um I'm sorry, I'm just so rooted in that.

For me to be able to turn only 30 degrees to see a council member instead of 45 degrees.

I'm not gonna spend a penny on that, right?

So I would keep this dais.

I wouldn't replace it at all.

Um I would keep it.

Um, and I'll just we what we haven't gotten to yet.

Here's what I'm thinking about in the hierarchy of where we should be spending, what is sounding more and more like a tight budget at a million dollars, right?

I mean, you said a minute ago that it's gonna be hard to even level the floor for that kind and get I don't I I think I don't I think yeah, I I don't think that's out of the question.

I'm saying that's one of the things that we're gonna do.

Well that we don't really break the budget.

Yeah, we don't break the budget.

So um so security is what we haven't gotten to yet.

I sat at that seat for the last few years and always thought I'm never getting out of here if something terrible happens, right?

So um I always told council member Stroud she was my human shield, and that was my plan.

So um but so I think we do need to spend money on things like that, the unthinkable, right?

The unthinkable, but it is not um in the state of politics today, isn't to be completely unexpected.

Um can I just add one more thing on the stadium seating?

I do understand the flexibility issue, I get that.

I've also f sat in those rooms, and I didn't like being part of the I didn't like sitting there.

Um you couldn't get the eye contact that we get to get with um I can get eye contact with everybody in the room.

Um the ch this chairs aren't ever as comfortable, they're either foldable or stackable chairs.

We have six-hour meetings, you guys, sometimes that is not out of the ordinary, so the seats aren't anywhere near as comfortable.

Often they don't have arms, and you're not separated from the stranger next to you if you don't have our.

I noticed in your pictures, some of those chairs have arms and some of them do not.

I think those may sound like little things that are big things.

It's like sitting next to somebody, a stranger on an airplane.

You're always going to put that armrest down, right?

It's just it doesn't separate you from the person, it just provides a separation, right?

So I actually do like the stadium seating, um, but I do understand the flexibility issue too.

I think it would be interesting to ask like our city manager is a separate conversation.

Um what does he think?

If we did design a if we spent the money to flatten the floor, um, what does he think the an increased use might be of this room?

And would it be worth the expense, right?

To me, it's I mean we could come up with all kinds of things that are nice to have, but at this budget, it may be a need to have, and we may even need to prioritize within that, right?

So I I I've all I've always gotten the impression that I'm outvoted on the whole flatten the floor thing.

I've been I have been to plenty of council chambers that had the flat floor, and I I didn't like them as well.

But that that's just me, and as a participant sitting in the audience, right?

You do often have to look around the person that's in front of you to be able to see, unless the dais is tall enough, or you're looking at something projected even higher up on the wall, right?

So there become visibility issues, but in both directions.

I like to be able to make eye contact with everybody in the audience as well.

So I think I'm gonna lose that if we flatten that floor too.

So just pointing out the opposite side.

I I can count the votes in my head, and I'm outvoted on that, but I just kind of wanted to point out what I had observed about the benefits to the stadium style seating, which you're telling me is just like old.

Like that's just old, like 90s stuff, right?

So maybe to maybe to just zero in on one little comment that you're one com comment and emphasis that you're making is the money that is money that is spent is spent for the purpose of making the space more used and more often used for more functions.

That's where the payback comes from that money.

It's not just the nice to have, it's the it's hey, does this get used by more people, more groups?

Does it function better?

Is it a better experience?

That's when the money is well spent.

Thank you for that.

Councilman D'Souza.

Yeah, thank you.

Okay, so talking about the um the different shapes of the dais for the council and then this the staff and um I actually really liked West Jordan's.

I I liked I kind of like that there was a break or a separation between the main um dais for the council members and then um staff.

I liked that it also offered um another exit or entry point.

So, like for example, um, you know, Chris Edwards, that's where she sits right now.

She does a lot of um helping out and and passing us stuff, but it has to get gets passed here to here to here, to all the way down.

And you know, for her to get out and walk out, it would be more disruptive to go all the way around.

You know what I mean?

And so I think that there are efficiencies that could be created with a slightly different um layout that way.

I mean, even for like when I if I'm sitting over here or administrative staff is sitting there and we need to get into the back area, um, everybody's walking around.

If I have to exit for a moment um before we have a break for whatever reason, people's bags are here, and I'm you know, you're tripping over them, or somebody steps out and you're trying to walk behind and there's a bag, you know, and so some of those things I think could be improved with maybe a different layout or different space.

Um I am not a fan of the stadium seating.

I I can see the benefit of having um being able to make eye contact and having uh everybody have a good visual to the to the council and what's going on, but I think that could be um also mitigated with uh you know a raised area for us.

I think for me it would be more important to have multiple use.

Um I also have seen somebody um try to access in a in a manual wheelchair, and the the slope of the floor makes it a little bit dangerous, and so I feel like there are accessibility issues with this current layout.

Um I'm just gonna say, even the chairs, maybe you haven't thought this.

So you sit here and you have a bag or a purse and it goes on the floor, and then you've got people that are trying to, you know, enter and exit, and you have to keep moving your stuff, and you can't put it in the seat next to you because it falls through the crack because the seats are up versus you know, sitting on a chair.

So anyway, my point is is that there are that happens to me when I go places like that.

Personal experience.

Um anyway, I think that there are pros and cons for uh you know a lot of various um layouts.

But again, like I I think that you can oftentimes save money by having things pull double duty, you know, one thing can do three things, and um that's personally where I'd like to see money spent and prioritized and accessibility and not just from a security standpoint, but also from a security standpoint from a functional workflow and being able to have access to things and staff and handouts and whatnot, and blocking everybody in and having everybody have to walk around and up and down.

Oftentimes we're coming down to um take photos with people that have come in for different awards, and you know, what it depends on you know, are you going this way or are you going this way?

And if you look around, it's a long way around and then in, and it's it gets kind of clunky and awkward, and there's some traffic jams.

Um, and so being thoughtful about those uses too, I think would be um important.

I've often joked about having a Costco door back here for security, you know.

If you had to crawl on your hands and knees, you could get out of here.

Um I don't know that that's necessarily practical, but thinking of security in those ways, I think is important, and being that we only have one access.

Are you making fun of me?

I'm just kidding.

My Costco door.

I love it.

Um, but making sure that there's appropriate uh egress for staff as well.

I mean, sitting over here, there's not a whole lot of private places that anybody can go in again.

There's a traffic jam to get back there.

So those are kind of my my big initial comments, and I'll probably wrap up at the end.

Well, well, go ahead.

I mean, we kind of seem to be moving past just this general layout, so I'll I'll give a little bit of in point or input to it, and then we can look at because I I do have a question about this um like the anyway, so you know, safety, and that's that's a priority.

You know, that's just looking ingress, egress, um, you know, if there was a fire, if there was some other, you know, emergency, and that's and from multiple perspectives.

So from that of people that are in the audience, um, from you know, people that are back up here on this side, you know, it just all of that, whether it's north or south, what that might look like.

Um, the tech component, so virtual, but then also the physical, you know, that's we have right now because this is too small for the amount of administrative staff that we have from the council office, we have to have somebody that's sitting in the back.

Sure.

Um yes.

So a couple people that are sitting in the back.

So, you know, looking at it, even that kind of component um to it.

Uh, you know, the you know, it if you look when people are watching online, the the tech updates, and I don't know if that's because it's camera placement, if it's the type of types of cameras we have, but there are other council meetings where you know they're they're not like this big on the screen, you know, a thumbnail on the screen.

Um so having that, but you know, our tech is over here and there.

So if there is a tech issue, then we need to have you know, council staff needs to be able to get up and they go all the way around, and then they have to deal with something on there's a board here, or you know, maybe there's something back in the server room.

So having that a little more streamlined, I think would be helpful.

Um the ADA access, you know, once again, I that's you know, I know we have the you know, the the hearing, you know, that's in there, but the the tech component for the ADA access, but also the physical part of it.

So, you know, where does somebody, if they are in a wheelchair, where are they seated that is not interfering with you know if there was a fire exit, you know, if they could get out quickly, you know, that's could they be at a different spot?

Um so the layout, you know, which I think we can get down to at some point of looking saying we're not I don't think we're just talking about you know, with the million dollars just talking about this, but also offices.

So we have three council offices and we have currently four um staff members.

So looking, you know, well, what does that look like?

You know, and that's and then it brings into well, if we're making more office space here and bringing it up, then we're eliminating this room.

What does that look like here?

So even just the physical layout of are we moving chambers, you know, but then if the floor is not level or if it's not up even a little bit more, you know, what does that look like?

You know, where we have those components because we have office space, we have something where it could be more of a a meeting, um you know, a large table, whether that's you know, it more of a forum or closed session uh looking at that.

Uh and then kind of the the last like major thing that I have, and it's not even it could just be like is is to make this more of a focal point.

You know, where we are.

We have this is this is our main entry to City Hall.

That's right.

We have two of them, but this is the main entrance.

And you walk up here, and we're seeing, okay, so it's glass right there, but you're looking at, but what can we do to make it and that's more of the I guess you know the the makeup after, you know, that the blush, you know, the eyeshadow and blush after.

Um, but you know, how can this be inviting um and warm, welcoming all the time and not just when it's in use.

So, you know, that's but I'm just kind of jumping all over, but I'll throw out anything.

And I think and I think what we'll what we'll obviously we're gonna be back to you with some ideas and and things like that.

And I think this has gotten us going.

It's got us on a good start that we can do that and and hopefully get in a direction that's close to some some of your comments and ideas and come up with some good ideas.

And I think that's really what we're that's really where we're at, is that we need to we need to put we need to sit down and put together some ideas for you.

We'll we'll look forward to that.

Uh I'll just sort of close on this the security and flow.

I'm just gonna second everything Councilwoman D'Souza says.

So if you were taking notes on what she said, I really like a lot of what she said.

And the one thing you've got here, um, but I want to draw attention to it.

Um as we are thinking about office space to to Councilwoman Strauss um point and as you were reimagining all of this, and we are thinking about staff.

I think security for them, and I know it's a bullet point here, but I want to emphasize it verbally, is a lot of the public will come to to staff, and there is no protection for that right now.

That's great in the back.

And so I I want to make sure we are thinking about, of course, we've already talked about egress and safety in this chamber, but I want to make sure we're thinking security and safety for staff who's wherever those office spaces, whatever those look like.

Good.

Please, Ms.

Nickel.

Um just one other comment that I have written down is that we are willfully under square footage in the back offices.

Our staff needs more space.

Um and if we could squeeze in a dedicated workspace for a council member, that would be great, but it's not necessary.

Okay.

So but we we need more square footage for our people.

It's back at back house.

I'm sure you've gone back there, but maybe you will.

Yeah.

No, that's right.

Okay.

Does that does that meet your objectives for tonight?

Did you get what you needed?

I I have uh I've taken a lot of notes.

And our meetings are recorded in case you want to go back.

And uh I I'll close and saying this is exactly what we expected.

Uh we wanted the feedback, we wanted to get you thinking.

It's not always easy to get everybody into the right mindset and the right mode and talk about things, but it was it was wonderful to listen to all of you, bounce the ideas, reconsider, consider something new.

Um yeah, got a lot of notes.

So uh just a couple of things and and and additional closing is we to Jim's point, we are at the start of this process.

Uh we know it's gonna take some time, it's gonna take some ideas, it's gonna take us getting more feedback from you based upon uh us presenting those ideas, dive into security, dive into a little bit more about what the budget can handle versus expectations and prioritizing the goals, and that's really what I wanted to get to today was understanding from this body's envision of goals for this project.

We have a certain set from staff that provided us with goals and an administration.

Um, but it is it is founded and rooted in in a collective process uh that we have everybody participate and give feedback.

So thank you all for your time and appreciate it very much.

Any other questions for us?

Great feedback.

Appreciate it.

Sorry, I'm just checking.

Uh I remembered that you had said something you would gonna you were gonna have a wrap up.

You're good?

You're good?

Okay.

Okay, sorry, I did I I did not want to overlook someone.

Thank you both for your for your time tonight.

We look forward to hearing what you come back with.

Yes, thank you.

Yes.

So that concludes session number or item number one.

I am gonna go ahead and move us to public comment because we are past our six o'clock mark.

So far, I only have one blue car, so if anyone in the chambers is hoping to speak to us, do invite you to go ahead and fill out the blue car.

But I am not seeing this individual.

Did he step out?

Henry?

Oh, I see him out there.

Maybe he's already gotten his question answered up.

No.

We are ready for you.

So um the one blue card I have again, Mr.

Henry Butters, and then we will hear.

I'll check the room, see if there's anyone else.

And then those who are online, uh, be prepared.

We will move to you next.

Hey, thank you.

Hey, I was just talking to the police chief about this.

Can you pull the mic?

Yes, thank you.

There you go.

Can you hear me?

Sorry.

I was just talking to the police chief about this.

The car is still parking down there with no license plate.

Why don't we try to come up with the city ordinance for no part uh license plates on cars?

Because they're parking down there with no license plates.

That's like me driving down the road with a semi-trailer with no license plate on it, and I get a ticket for it.

You see what I mean?

Um another thing is what I brought up about the mayor last time.

I still haven't heard nothing from the mayor's office on that, Martin.

And I'll let you decide that.

Um, but that's the only thing I want to bring to your guys' attention.

What can we do on the cars that don't have license plates?

Is there a way we can bring up a code or something like we're doing with the truck parking and stuff?

That's all I'm asking.

Thank you guys.

Have a good week.

Thank you.

We appreciate your time.

All right.

Um looking for anyone else in the chambers.

I don't see anyone.

So I was gonna say Mr.

Frato, not Mr.

Frado, Mr.

Sorzen.

Would you look for people, individuals online who'd like to speak?

Thank you.

Certainly.

If you're participating on our Zoom meeting and would like to make a uh comment for general general citizen comment, please use the raise hand feature.

I will call on you, and you will have three minutes to make your comment.

I don't see any hands.

Thank you for that.

So I'll go ahead and close public comment.

I'm gonna move us to item number two.

This is a council voting item.

Uh so we will again take public comment, but on this specific item.

We'll turn it over to Councilman D'Souza for her second reading.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um, and thank you, Council, for um having the discussion with me last week when I brought this forward um as an introduction.

Uh from that, I have made a couple of um changes, relatively minor, considering you know the the um full ordinance, and that was to reduce the amount of significant parcel from 250 as it was um introduced down to 200,000 from uh council member suggestion, and and it seemed like I had um council member support for that, and then um I had just updated that section H1 to read what I had corrected in the email that I had sent.

I did want to say that I noticed here in the staff report, um staff went and and um very helpful uh define what subsection H1 was, but it should say 200 instead of 250.

That was the language prior to the change.

It is correct in the red line of the ordinance, it's just listed incorrectly on that staff report.

Um and so those are the only changes that were made.

Do I have any questions that I can answer?

I'm not seeing any questions over here.

Council, no, I don't have any either.

Um so with that we'll just do you want to take public comment?

And then we'll okay.

So we're gonna take public comment again.

I do not have any blue cards on this item.

I'm scanning the room and I do not see anyone flagging me down.

So let's go ahead and go to virtual, Mr.

Sorensen and see if we have any public comment on this item.

Once again, if you're participating on our Zoom meeting and would like to comment on item number two, please use the raise hand feature and I will call on you, and you'll have three minutes to make your comments.

I don't see any raised hands.

Okay, thank you.

Then I will go ahead and close public.

Oops.

There we go.

I will close public comment and bring it back to the council, please, Mr.

Motion.

I'll motion to approve ordinance 2653.

Second.

I have a motion and a second.

Any discussion on the motion.

See none.

We'll go ahead and do a roll call vote, please.

Miss Nickel?

Yes.

Ms.

DeSusa.

Yes.

Mr.

DeKaiser.

Yes.

Ms.

Stroud.

Yes.

Ms.

Houseman.

Yes.

Ms.

Sharkey.

Yes.

Madam Chair, that motion carried six to zero.

Thank you for that.

And Mr.

DeKaiser, I I didn't think you had a comment, so I'm sorry if I missed a hand.

But I know we just took the vote.

You're good?

Okay.

Thank you for that.

So that um actually conclete completes our items for this evening.

Whoa, look at us, everyone.

We're gonna be done by seven o'clock.

Um so with that, I'm gonna move us to standing reports, and I'll ask uh council staff to begin with that, and then we'll come around the council.

Thank you, madam chair.

Uh just first off, just wanted to thank you guys for your patience.

Uh we are a little short staffed tonight.

Um I hope you enjoyed the the shorter agenda next week's agenda, unfortunately is a little bit larger.

Um we will have a presentation from the folks at the MVP shelter.

Um we will have a discussion on some information coming uh for the new rec center in regards to membership rates, fees, um, and the fiscal outlook.

We will also have an update on their crescent middle school property.

Um so it should be a substantial agenda next week.

And then, Madam Chair, just a reminder the recreation center report that's on the agenda tonight was put on erroneously, and so we'll have that again starting next week.

We'll move around to council.

Thank you for that update, Mr.

Sorensen.

Ms.

Nickel.

I just wanted to um make citizens aware.

I'm getting a lot of questions with regards to Crescent and just parks in general.

And I I was looking at the website, and there was a study done for Alt Canyon that has some really valuable input just on parks and um a lot of different data.

We also did a parks master plan in 2024 that I wanted to point council back to because it it really gives a lot of more in-depth uh information about the parks that we have, the way we utilize them, and what people were thinking just two years ago with regards to uh more park space.

So that's it.

Ms.

Sharkey.

Just a couple of things.

Um the League of Cities and Towns has been putting on some awfully good webinars.

Um I took one regarding um DADUs, um, excess external accessory dwelling units that I think is still up there online for people to watch.

Give some really good examples of best practices and what some cities have already implemented.

And they seem a little bit different than the ones that we kind of went over, a little bit provocative, new ideas to think about.

Um so just kind of wanted to point out those as a resource if anyone has any extra time and just feels like watching you know technical presentations by the League of Cities and Towns.

Also, my thanks to my fellow council members and to Chris Edwards, who helped um host another very good night at the uh RSL suite was a royals game.

Uh Chris, you were right, not nearly the turnout in the stands as an RSL game.

I think we had as many people in our suite as were in the stands.

We had a full suite, we had a very full suite of great people.

Um had um people from the Larry H.

Miller Corporation, the deat lines came from Hale Center Theater, we had the HOA Umbudsman's Office there, state legislator.

Uh I could go on and on.

A lot of great guests in the suite, and so I appreciate the effort that went into both planning it and um executing it with the council.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um I wrote down to make sure I I I mentioned the Sandy Club Carnival, but I don't want to take that if that is somebody else is gonna talk about it.

Thank you.

I should have was that your okay.

I was like, I was trying to remember who's the so we were reminded um Shalom Orton sent uh an email out to all of us, and of course, this is open to all who would like to support the Sandy Club, but they are holding their carnival Thursday, July 30th from 5:30 to 8 p.m.

Did I miss anything?

No.

Okay.

That's that's all I had.

So Councilman Stroud.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

And at the Carnival, the Youth Council will be there helping as they have the past couple of years.

So getting another volunteer opportunity in.

Um, you know, in the past like week and a half, because there was a little bit from last week.

But anyway, uh so uh smoke taco, which is down by SHIELS.

They had a ribbon cutting and very uh appealing and appetizing.

So if you have a chance, go down by uh go down to Shields.

Uh and I don't think we mentioned last week.

I'm not sure.

I know that were a couple of us that were up there for the Bell Canyon, uh, the grand opening with the playground.

Um, you know, a beautiful playground that's up there, couple things that are different, um, but it is you know, it's geared for um kids, you know, two to five, and then you've got a a five to eight, and then an eight and up section, you know, with an extra wide slide.

They talked about having kind of the ribs in it, you know, that keeped it or they uh help keep it with the the strength to it, um, you know, the the soft turf, so that if you if the kid falls, that's you know, it's actually rated at eight feet, so they could fall from eight feet and it would be a little more cushiony long gone or the the pea gravel and the wood chips of the past.

Uh, but uh you know, a great ribbon cutting up there as well to update that that playground that was definitely aging.

Um, you know, I did want to a couple of administrative, you know, thank yous uh you know to Ryan Cump uh for working on in a one of the county areas that will become Sandy.

They had a question about a sidewalk issue that the county is uh that that will be installing, and they had some concerns with that, and uh Ryan was able to get on and to resolve those, you know, knowing that that will become Sandy's sidewalk in a year.

So, you know, spent just a little bit of time with that, and uh there's a a great group that I was able to meet with after the first uh crescent middle school um discussion, uh, and then a second, you know, thank you, Mr.

Jensen, you know, for being able to work through so a resident who had an easement concern, you know, something that that dated back 42 years, but it sounds like that we've got that uh working with Mr.

Nelson, you know, that wrapped up.

So, you know, thank you for for being able to work on that.

Um the fire department had uh another badge pinning and promotion ceremony, so we had four promotions and two new hires.

Um and then uh once again, you know, wonderful, you know, Crescent View Middle School, lots of opportunities to connect with residents and uh and it also highlighted areas you know, residents were able to bring up questions you know of of things that had not been addressed, you know, that we need to to do a better job to be able to get all of the information out that residents are asking for, you know, as we come up on a uh important decision here in the next little bit.

So but other than that, more good.

That actually reminds me.

Thank you for that.

Um it's it's more of just some additional feedback on Crescent View.

Um, and and I've shared this with council members, but sort of want to share uh this perspective with the public as well.

I I kind of see our process, Mr.

Jensen.

I know your update's coming soon, and so correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I kind of see our process as three decisions.

Decision one is whether or not we are going to put this on the ballot.

That's the decision that's in front of us.

And then question number two is if the council decides this is going to go on the ballot, then how much are we anticipating bonding for and what language we will put?

If we once we make that decision, um, then the third decision becomes to your point, that's why you triggered my my my remember my uh you reminded me.

That that third question becomes what will our education campaign look like?

What is the information we are sharing?

So um I know you're coming through a lot and preparing to come back.

Um I'm just letting you know that with all of the information that is coming in.

Uh if the public could could, if we can make sure the public understands um the first decision that we are facing is that yes or no decision, go no go decision around whether or not we're putting it on the ballot.

So I am gonna be hungry for um the information you can share that helps us make that first decision number one.

So thank you for that because you reminded me.

Um councilwoman D'Souza.

Thank you.

And and just I'm gonna piggy pigtail on that.

Um anyway.

Piggy back, thank you, dovetail.

I'm gonna piggy tail on that.

Um so uh my thought was yes, putting it on the ballot, but what are we putting on the ballot?

That hasn't been decided either.

And so I want to make sure that you know we're we're still clear on the council is gathering information for options for us to consider whether or not we're putting something on the ballot, and if we do, what does that look like?

So yeah, it's I just it's not just one item that we're considering.

And then um, as far as my council member business, uh I had the senior center advisory board meeting this last week, and um they wanted me to um share their gratitude with the council for the budget amendment that you all helped pass um that gave them that little bit of money to build up for um being able to handle the needs that they have as they come up.

Um and so they were so so so so appreciative and were very aware of that conversation um while it was happening.

And um I thought I was gonna surprise them, but I didn't actually surprise them because they were they were very well informed and they were very appreciative of what of the action that we had taken.

So I just wanted to pass that along.

Um they also talked about um they have their upcoming car show this September.

It is a huge uh fundraiser for them, and so they want you know anybody and everybody that would like to come that is interested in participating.

Uh it is a really big deal for them, and they go all out, and they are talking about marketing the different car clubs to get a really good selection.

Um they've talked with the city, I believe, for um utilizing the city's marketing channels, the the website and whatnot to advertise for that a little bit larger.

They've they're working with Merle to advertise on the rotating banner outside on the corner.

Um they're really appreciative for that um group effort also.

The youth council is really helpful.

They appreciate that help.

I know that the youth council, there are some members that are gonna be um helping with some of the takedown for that.

Um it just reminded me that I wanted to bring up is I I believe that the they are under the impression that the senior center was not included in this year's Sandy Beautification Day, that there that wasn't on the rotation.

Um and and in years previous, you know, flowers had been planted, and that didn't happen this year in that same way.

And so um I just wanted to bring that to the administration's attention and say that if we could um be sure that we include that facility um in those efforts, that would be great also.

Um other than that, that's all I had.

Thank you.

Mr.

Jensen.

Oh, oh, oh, Mr.

DeKaiser, so sorry.

It's fine.

I don't have any business, thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Now, Ms.

Jason.

Thank you, Miss Ms.

Houseman.

Um in regards to your your comments on Crescent, yes, we we see it very similar to that process.

Uh staff is working uh at a furious pace uh to to gather information, the requests from the council also to provide information to you on the public feedback as soon as possible and not wait for the upcoming council meeting.

Uh we're we're doing that as well.

We're hoping to either transmit something to you tomorrow on the public feedback or Thursday at the latest.

But gathering all that information, we'll we'll share that as soon as is uh we have that compiled.

So sorry, Mr.

Jensen.

Quick question.

When you say you're gathering all that feedback, um you're you're covering the two open houses, the uh four feedback forms that have been filled out through the website, and the survey is the survey.

Survey is ongoing right now, so uh as that comes in, we we won't wait for that to f to finish before we send that in.

But uh so public comments that uh we've received through our various channels, uh the online forum feedback, the handwritten cards that uh people also had the opportunity at the open houses.

That's what's just been taking a little bit of time.

Uh we have some wonderful interns and staff that are helping us categorize all that stuff.

Um we'll provide a summary, we'll also provide the cards to you as well if you want to look at those directly.

So we're also uh met with the canyon school district and we're waiting for some more information from them as well on some of the the items that were sent from Dustin trying to get more information.

So just an update that we're gathering all this stuff.

We we are planning on presenting the 28th, and then there's also the the following council meetings as well in August to discuss this.

So uh we're trying to gather it as quickly as we can and and as open and as accurate as we can as well.

So just regarding the data that you're ready to provide.

One of the questions that's been brought up to me is the demographics.

Since the Toon Town Halls were held on the property, there's a concern that we're getting an overwhelming amount of feedback from people that live proximate to the that location.

So will we be provided any kind of demographic information which tells us what we're getting and from where, so we can take that into consideration as well.

Yes, absolutely.

Perfect.

Um those that are provided addresses, we we um have put that on on a map.

Not everybody has, but those that we have, yes, absolutely.

Perfect, thank you.

One other quick item, just wanted to make sure um the mayor did send an email today about the fireworks ban.

We've been working with the league and with the the state based upon a recommendation from our fire marshal and our fire chief.

Um we have submitted a request to the state to extend the fire ban to mirror what was done July 4th.

Uh we've also been coordinating with our our sister neighboring cities along the the east side of the valley, and uh we're we're working closely with them.

Looks like Draper, Sandy, uh Cottonwood Heights, Harriman, a lot of the the East Bench um cities are proposing a ban.

So we're just waiting for the final word from the state forester, but uh we do anticipate a positive support of that and will continue to look like what was submitted for July 4th.

And that's all I have.

Thank you, Mr.

Jensen.

I think that's ever Mr.

Pace, nothing from you, right?

All right, then I think we have completed our agenda for this evening.

I'll take a motion.

Motion to adjourn.

Second.

We have a motion, a second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Thank you.

We are adjourned.

Thanks, everyone.