Oh, that's true.

Okay.

Yes, we've been waiting for you.

Because you said the bride comes.

But everybody.

Right.

Thank you for entrance.

Okay.

We'll call the meeting to order then.

The September 3rd, 2025 meeting of San Jose Historic Landmarks Commissions now in session.

Welcome everybody.

We'll do a quick roll call.

Commissioner Cohen.

Here.

Commissioner Bainowal.

Present.

Commissioner Arnold.

Vice Chair Galandari present.

And Chair Royer here as well.

Commissioner Camuso is absent tonight.

Our first item of business today is we are going to present a commendation to our former out our outgoing chair, Paul Baim.

So Paul, if you want to come up.

I'll read this here.

Be it resolved by the City of San Jose, Department of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement.

Whereas Mr.

Paul Baim has served as a dedicated and hardworking member of the San Jose Historic Landmarks Commission from July 1st, 2018 until September 1st, 2025, as both vice chair and chair between December 2018 and June 2025.

And whereas Mr.

Bain devoted his career to education as a teacher in the Campbell Union High School District, and later as a Campbell adult and community education instructor, where he shared his passion for local heritage by teaching Santa Clara Valley History.

And whereas Mr.

Baeme has extended his interest in history and preservation beyond the classroom, serving as a docent at the Roberto Adobe and Sonol House, actively contributing to the Santa Clara County Preservation Alliance and helping organize the annual preservation night awards night.

And whereas Mr.

BAME has served on the Hanno San Jose Historic Landmarks Commission with a passion for teaching and knowledge of local history and a sincere understanding and respect for all citizens of San Jose of diverse opinions and backgrounds.

Now therefore, be it resolved that Mr.

Paul Baim is hereby recognized and commended for his commitment to historic preservation, eagerness to share San Jose's history, and outstanding service to the city of San Jose and his residents.

His dedication to preserving our past for future generations will be remembered and appreciated for years to come.

Would you like to say a few words, Bob?

Okay.

Um I feel more comfortable.

Here, give me this microphone.

I'll take my seat.

You can actually see the agenda there.

Um I just wanted to recognize that we have created a legacy over the last several years, and I think we can feel pretty proud of the fact that we passed demo by neglect, very important language to help our city prevent from you know losing very historic buildings.

Um it wasn't accepted by the city council, but we did our job, and maybe someday it will be.

We also added over a hundred properties to the historic resource index and many, many landmarks.

And then we reviewed all the things that were went into the Google project.

That was a lot of work as well.

And we also did a lot of other properties in downtown area.

I think it was something that we had our voice.

Sometimes it was very respected, sometimes not so much, but we did add our voice to it.

And I think that's all we can do.

I also wanted to make mention that each of the commissioners has a wonderful way to deal with the knowledge of properties, neighborhoods, different laws, both state as well as the local laws, the city laws and codes.

And we are presented by developers, and we hear all these different angles of CEQA and different regulations, and we're trying to sift through all that to give our different nuanced opinions.

And I also have to recognize a very important role that PAC San Jose plays.

I'm so glad Ben is here.

Because PAC San Jose has a different, a lot slightly different view of development.

They want to develop the town and build for the future, but they want to protect historic properties.

So that's a good view that I'm so glad is here tonight.

And I think as far as I know, I was telling my wife who's here, he's someplace.

And sometimes more than one.

We really value their input.

She and I cooperated and worked together very effectively, I think.

And being that I was a commissioner and she was a staff person, she had a different point of view, which goes without saying, but we were able to work together to achieve a lot of things, as I mentioned earlier, and there was never uh a lack of respect, and there was always hard work involved.

I also want to thank uh Minerva for being here tonight and all the city workers.

You all have roles that matter, and I think you're sensitive to our points of view as historic um preservationists.

So thank you for that.

Um I just want to say that I personally feel a great measure of satisfaction that I don't know if you know this, uh the city council just passed a law saying the penalties for those who are going to continue to blight and not take care of their properties will be increased up to a half a million.

That's a huge increase.

And the city council passed it.

So to me that's a measure of success that even though our demo by neglect didn't pass on directly, it made an influence, and so good for good for us.

So um you're in very good hands with Rachel.

Um you're also good hands with the vice chair uh Galandari, and um I want to wish you all the best in the future.

I know that you are gonna do very well.

Each one of you is skillful, and so I wish you all the best and thank you very much for this.

Very meaningful to me.

I appreciate it.

Thanks, Paul.

I wanted to invite Meneer if you want to say, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Do you guys want to say a few words?

Okay.

I'll just sit right here so that everyone can hear me.

But um, my name is Karina Castro.

I'm from Council Member Mulkey's office.

You've seen me a couple times here already.

Um, but I just want to show you um appreciation on behalf of our council office.

Uh, we'd like to thank you so much for uh being a community leader for being an advocate for historical preservation, uh, for being a historian and for being um an educator as well.

Uh all the work that you've done is truly admirable.

Uh you've done a lot of work and uh lasting contributions to preserving history in San Jose and um making sure that San Jose remains as valuable as it is today.

Um we appreciate everything that you have done, and um I personally look up to all the work that you've done and we'll make sure to honor you.

Um and we will always refer back to the work that you've done.

So thank you so much for everything and for um having us here at the commission meetings.

We appreciate it.

Thank you.

Very nice.

Want to invite the other commissioners to say a few words as well if they'd like.

You're trying to escape, you're not done yet.

I just want to say that as a fellow historical academician.

I'm gonna miss you because of you know, my love history and the history of San Jose, and I could always depend on you to find the little nugget on history, California history, San Jose history that I missed.

I'm I'm really deeply going to miss that.

Thank you.

And plus, I'm still sitting in the front of the class.

You know how I feel about that.

They put me up here next to the leader anyway.

I'm gonna miss you.

Oh, thank you, Harry.

All of your California history knowledge, and it's just nice to always vote.

Thank you.

I just wanted to say that it's been such a privilege to sit on this commission with you beyond your depth of knowledge of history, um, which is you know very helpful during these these meetings.

You taught me things that I never knew about San San Jose history.

Um, just watching the way that you run the meetings with so much respect and civility towards all differing types of opinions.

And I think you you mentioned there are differing opinions.

There's different opinions that sit on this commission, but there's also developers and other folks that are come before us, and we don't always agree on things, but I've always watched at every hearing how you've handled that with the utmost respect um and civility and compassion, and just really just it's been so lovely to be around you, honestly, Paul.

So thank you so much.

Thank you for that.

Oh so I would just like to say, I mean, I heard since 2018, that's that's many years of public service.

So I mean, thank you.

That's and that's you know, that's a pretty big time commitment, too.

And I just signed up for.

But I always really appreciated how prepared you came in.

You had your binder.

I'm like, oh my god, he took a lot of notes.

So I you know, I I think I I really appreciated that and how much effort you put in.

And I can tell that you put in actually a lot of time before coming into the meeting to prepare.

So thank you for that.

Thank you.

I also want to say thank you for all your uh camaraderie over the last I've been on the on the commission almost as long as you have here.

So you were on the commission the whole time I was here and appreciate your just your insights and your leadership and just fun conversation.

Yeah, you know, not related necessarily to the agenda, just a joy to be around.

So thank you for all the time we spent together here.

Yeah, I wanna um ditto uh commissioner Banwall's comments.

It's really um refreshing and um satisfying when all the information that you've prepared prepared, you know, has been gone through um and you've thought about your comments and that kind of thing.

Um when I was putting together the commendation, um, I was really amazed at just all the things that you had done, and and please we can correct the commendation if there's dates or something that's not not correct.

Um, but um, oh gosh, I lost my train of thought.

But I I've appreciated our our lunches that we had together and just how much passion and energy and time you put into the commission as a volunteer.

I think maybe a lot of people don't realize that you know you're all just volunteers.

Um and it's huge, it's a huge commitment to show up, you know, every month, and and you prepared all the time, and we're always thinking about things you wanted to accomplish.

So um I really appreciate that, and it was great to work with you, and yeah, well, I I will really miss you.

Thank you.

I'll miss you too.

Oh, I'm doing a photo.

Okay.

Okay, uh, we're gonna jump out of order just for one item here on the agenda.

We're gonna jump down to agenda item eight A, uh, for good and welfare uh communications from Richard Santos about support for the preservation of historic Elviso buildings.

Thank you for your patience.

I know you got here early tonight, so I just want to invite Rich up to the podium to say his comments.

Good evening, madam chair and commissioners, and thank you for uh allowing me to come over here and speak.

I'm Richard Santos and my family's been a part of Alvisa for over a hundred and ten years.

And uh the city of San Jose has not been kind to the Elviso community for this last 58 years.

And uh what I'm asking is whatever you can do to help protect and pre and preserve our historic buildings.

There's a development now coming to Alviso, complete disregard for our existing buildings, and I don't want to see them gone, of course.

And um I've been here numerous times in the past, I don't know most of you at all, but uh for your years, and we finally got about Bob Gross was our historian, 92 years old, he just passed away and uh with him and myself we'll be able to get about 19 sites with recognition, whatever have you.

But there's a lot more and unfortunately this last couple of years, many of the buildings were allowed to just be demolished and fall down, and I can go on for another hour.

That's very bitter, very painful.

And what we have lists, I don't know what you can do, but I hope you can help us.

I don't want to see the history thrown away.

Our history's very precious and uh Alvisa was the gateway to set up their accounting.

Without all viso, y'all wouldn't be here.

And uh it's been disregarded.

The government has not been kind to us.

But uh, we survive through floods, politics, and you name it, we're still here.

But it's a very important to make sure our children for the future understand the past.

And so whatever I can do, and I hope you'll um help.

And I could go through some of the stuff's being demolished and it's there right now, but I don't want to take any more time.

I really appreciate you taking the time to allow me to speak.

Um, thank you for coming and sharing your comments.

Um we can discuss maybe more specific buildings.

Um we don't have to go through it right now.

I could give you a uh that'd take a lot of time because I know what it is.

I'm elected, I go through it.

In fact, we had all day sessions today.

It was a workshop and you know, and you got the public and so on, but to give you an idea with the pain it is.

I was born there in 1944, and we had nothing.

But when you see a building like the Wells Fargo building, was built like in 1848, all my life it was there, and so the community would come to me and I'd go right up to the city of San Jose.

We let the homeless live in there and all that.

And I was raised in that building and played in kids and all that kind of stuff, but we knew the history.

Then you have the lane store.

And I can go right now, you have a building.

AP Gianini went to school there, the founder of the Bank of America.

He wasn't born in San Jose, which means misled, he was born in Tasman Avenue.

It's called Dead Man's Turn.

And then he came to Elviso School, and Elviso School was the school district for all that farming area, which today is San Jose and Santa Clara Unified School District.

But it wasn't then.

That building still exists, and it was a Mosca recreation building that just burned down.

Do I want that building to burn down?

No.

San Jose went in that building and wrecked it, but it's still there.

My goodness, why wouldn't you preserve it?

I went to first grade there, my dad went to school there.

It's not about us, that's the history of it.

1900.

And they in the lane store back in 1852 in the city of San Jose, watched it be demolished.

The firehouse that the community built in 1938, my dad and everybody in that community, about a thousand people.

They built that San Jose under Mayor Reed.

Watch it collapse.

So that's just that's just three or four.

I I hope.

And uh Bob Gross, I helped contribute probably about 200 pictures and probably has a thousand, and he died before finishing that book.

But it's still there.

I'm trying to work with the family to keep it going.

There was one book by um Ray Burrell about the Avisa history, and it was pretty accurate.

Some things not, and then this last grant you folks got, and Dana P came out with me, spent a lot of time, and it was pretty accurate.

I appreciate it.

A lot of imbalance stuff too.

And do I know more than everybody else?

Just about.

Just about.

There's only about maybe four of us left from Alvisa.

In fact, it's just me and my brother.

About it, and uh it's a shame.

And our children, just like myself, when I was raised in Elvis, I didn't know who Agnostia Viso was.

But you would hear rumors and all these things.

My point was minority history wasn't preserved, but white history is.

So when you talk about the Sakaway building, I knew all these folks, but we were there first.

So I hope, you know, I just hope you have the sensitivity, and whatever I can do to help, let me know.

So that's enough for me, but I really appreciate the time.

Great, thank you.

Um, yeah, and we have been you know discussing Elviso history on a lot of the agendas lately that I've been here at meetings with, and we do have the recent survey work, so it's definitely on our minds, and we we look forward to hearing more comments from you as you have them.

Thank you all.

Okay, um, moving back up to agenda item number one, deferrals.

There are no items.

Uh number two is the consent calendar.

Again, we have no items, so we're moving down to public hearings.

Uh we have one item under public hearings, HP 25-001, historic preservation permit to allow the construction of one new two-story building with six dwelling units on a vacant, approximately 0.16 gross acre lot in the Hensley City Landmark District, located at 445 North Sixth Street.

Uh Council District 3.

CEQA is exempt pursuant to CQL guidelines section one five three oh three B for new construction of small structures.

And project manager is Jason Lee.

Staff recommendation recommends that the Historic Landmarks commission one consider an exemption in accordance with CEQA guidelines Section 15303B for new construction of small structures.

And two, find the proposed project will not be detrimental to the city landmark district and will be consistent with the spirit of the proposed historic preservation ordinance.

And three, recommend approval of the historic preservation permit file number HP 25-001 to the Director of Planning, Building Code, and Enforcement.

With that, we'll turn it over to staff for uh presentation.

All right.

Uh good evening, Chair and Commissioners.

Uh my name is Jason Lee, project manager for file number HP 25001, and the corresponding site development permit file number H25005 for the construction of a new six-unit apartment building within the Hensley City Landmark District.

All right, so for a quick planning background here, the project is in the residential neighborhood general plan designation and in the RM multiple residence zoning district.

The project exceeds the allowable 16 dwelling unit per acre density on the site through density bonus by reserving one of its units for low income and another for moderate income households.

The project meets all zoning requirements of the RM district.

For the purposes of this historic preservation permit, the project was evaluated with respect to the general plan, the zoning ordinance, the historic preservation ordinance, the Secretary of the Interior standards for rehabilitation, the URL house design guidelines, and applicable citywide design standards, and CEQA.

So in short, staff has found that the project preserves the integrity and fabric of the Hensley City Landmark District and is compatible with the district through its design through the inclusion of materials which mimic the look of historic materials, including character defining features, especially on its front facade, which are similar to contributing buildings within the district, and maintains the look and feel of the neighborhood through its progression of public to private spaces with facade composition, roof forms, and door and window alignment.

The project is an apartment building in an area of mixed single and multifamily residences, and the front facade appears as a single dwelling with a craftsman-like composition through hip and gable roof forms, a projecting front porch, overhanging eaves with wood brackets, bay windows, and horizontal siding.

The project has been granted one density bonus waiver to a relevant citywide design standard.

Specifically, the building does not step down to its neighbor to the south, which is plan left on this plan.

The neighbor to the south is a single family house, which is listed on the historic resources inventory.

However, the project does provide a 10-foot setback, which is double what is required to avoid overwhelming the neighbor neighboring house.

And this is the south elevation of the project, so driveway facing and with the front visible from the screen.

Additionally, staff has found that the project is not excluded from using a categorical exemption because the project complies with all relevant secretary of the interior standards for rehabilitation, specifically 8, 9, and 10.

Staff followed city council policy 6-30 for public outreach and on site sign has been posted on the frontage, and this hearing, as well as the director's hearing in two weeks was noticed to all properties located within 500 feet of the project site.

Therefore, staff recommends that the commission consider the exception for this project.

Find that the proposed project will not be detrimental to the Hensley City Landmark District and will be consistent with the spirit and purposes of the historic preservation ordinance, and recommend approval of the HP permit to the planning director.

Thank you.

Um the applicant is I think the Zoom name should be Danny.

So can you please promote him and he will share his presentation?

Yes.

I'm joining right now.

Good evening, Commission.

My name is Danny Yuan Fam.

I'm the uh applicant and the part of the development team here.

Myself, right behind me, our project architect.

His name is Pike.

Good to see some familiar faces.

Congratulations, Chair Roy, on your new role.

As Jason noted, this project is located at 445 North 6th Street.

The permit number is H25-005, HP 25-001.

Our historic resources consultant was Bonnie Bamberg.

She can't be here today, but um she is on the call.

Some design features that we've highlighted on here is the front facade.

As Jason noted previously, the front facade mimics a single family home in that historic district and along that street.

The finished selections were selected carefully to mimic the historic characteristics of the neighborhood as well, including wood fascia and eaves all throughout the building, duckle walls, composite shingle roofing, a front dormer, and hardy board siding that replicates and mimics wood siding, which we have a sample of here if you'd like to take a look.

The gable pitch roof is consistent throughout the 6th Street and the historic district.

Which we have some compatibility pictures here.

We which we like to share.

As you can see here in the picture, um some of the characteristics and um inspiration that we took was the wood face and eaves, shingle gable pitch roof, the exciting the siding color.

We picked one similar to this one as well, along with the front porch and the dormer.

The next picture on the right is 439 North Sixth Street, which is plant uh directly south of the lot and the adjacent single family home.

We mimic the wood faces and eaves here, shingle gable pitch roofing, blue exterior siding, um, and there's a side side staircase, which we also have as well, and concealed.

We went we met with the committee on 417 at the design review uh committee meeting.

Um, some of the comments that we received from there, we took back to the team and the drawing board, and we've kind of made updates which I'm happy to share here on the screen.

On the left was during that meeting, what the design looked like, and then on the right is um as of right now.

Some of the updates I've listed here is uh we revised the dormer windows to be more traditional.

We increase the visual width of the porch posts, we increase the depth of the porch, we reduced the visibility of the front stairwell, which you can see on the right with the fencing.

Uh, we extended the kitchen bay window to the ground, which was a public comment that we addressed and updated.

We reduced the width of the front porch fascia and integrated the porch into the roof design, and then we changed throughout the the building, which you'll see in the next slide, all the picture windows to traditional window design and proportions.

On this slide here, I have uh the plan south, not plan south, plan north elevation comparison from the left and the right, similar to the last slide.

Here we changed the windows to a more traditional windows design and proportion, which you can see here.

Um the fencing comment that uh was discussed on 417 has been updated here, which I put a plan from the plans here and highlighted where the fencing is in teal, which you can see here.

And then we used accent colors throughout the building, which uh you have the sample of in front of you.

That's all I have to share.

Um I'd love to answer any questions and comments if anybody had any.

And it's a great pleasure to be here.

Great.

Thank you.

Um I'm gonna open it up for public comment first, and then I'll come back to the commissioners for comments and questions.

Um any public comment.

Go ahead and introduce yourself.

Absolutely, thank you.

Uh Ben Leach, Preservation Action Council.

Um, I was in attendance at the design review subcommittee meeting.

Um, and so I can attest that the uh design has evolved significantly, and I think for the better.

Uh, I think that it's a testament to the process of um design review early that comments can be incorporated and incorporated successfully.

So uh we support staff recommendation on this.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any commissioners have questions or comments.

Ladies first.

Oh, yeah, I just wanted to point out that I I reviewed the case packet for this, and I really appreciate the time that was taken to incorporate the design comments.

I looks like you guys did a really really good job with it, and I think that um I'm I'm supportive of the project.

I think it's it's a good outcome for that site.

Thank you.

I guess my question is direct data at the screen.

Um, and it has to do, especially with the Hansley district being a historical district.

Has there the community?

I know the community of folks there.

Is there been involvement with the community that is a very rich and active I know it will uh district and what if any involvement um has there been?

That's one of my questions.

So I I would I I would uh defer to the applicant on what kind of community outreach was done.

Um in the negative, I can say we've heard no uh adverse comments about this.

So for for us, you know, we often hear about development in Hensley, yeah.

Um, and there are often conflicting opinions about that.

There's been no notes of concern about this.

Um, I think basically because it's of a compatible scale on a currently vacant lot, so have not heard of any.

Okay.

I I can add to that that um I've actually personally talked to 439, which is the adjacent neighborhood, the owner of that lot who's been there for significantly long time, and I've also met and had lunch with the the owner of the lot north or actually north of the lot, which is a non-contribute building.

Um, so I have done outreach and I have been there and have discussed and met with each of them personally.

They also have my business card and I've given them my personal phone number to reach out to if they had any issues down the line or now.

Second question has to do with the elevation, and has there been questions raised with the elevation of that you've designed regarding your proposed change.

As of right now, no questions regarding the height and the elevation.

Thank you.

I think staff will want to note for the record that we, as part of the development process, do reach out to neighborhood associations instead of including the historic uh historic neighborhood association.

Yes.

Uh we did reach out to them, they did respond.

Um we've been in contact with them throughout the process.

They were noticed for this meeting as well as DRC.

Um, I think the only comment that I've really received was the one that was resolved with gating off the doorway that you saw the front facade.

That's really the only comment I've received from the neighborhood association folks.

Thank you.

Okay, so just off of what you brought up.

So the outreach was done through to the neighborhood association.

You did a presentation or uh no, we sent them an email, and then they responded to me, and then I've spoke, you know, they've they were sent the plans and everything, asked if they had comment on it, and then they've they got back to me with that, and and so no, but they've seen the plans and everything.

They they're aware of the final plans here that are for you know, member approval at director's hearing, and and they don't they haven't had any comments since DRC.

Okay, great, thank you.

Um, couple questions.

One is you said the color of the exterior is the same as the neighbors.

No, no, sorry.

We took inspiration from it.

Okay, but it's a different they're not different color, correct?

Everything's gonna look the same, right?

Yeah, no, there won't look the same.

Everything's tan in San Jose type of thing.

So I just wanted to be different, but we took the inspiration of the blue, um, the lighter tone blue.

Right, got it.

Okay, thank you.

Um, what kind of material is are the windows?

It's um aluminum windows, white, white aluminum windows.

The white aluminum windows, yeah.

Um those are paintable.

Correct.

Right.

They they are paintable.

Right.

Um, and are they going to be white on the finished?

They're currently scheduled to be white.

Right.

Um it would be nice if you consider doing something other than that because whenever you see these buildings, especially the old ones where people go in there and they put in vinyl windows, it's just like it drives me crazy.

You know, and if you have to do a vinyl window, uh, because I know this isn't a restoration, it would be great if you can just just not do what you know.

Just paint it and and just do another color other than white, so it just doesn't look like the cheap Home Depot windows, which I'm not saying you're using, but it's not a vinyl window, it's uh spec'd out right now.

Fibrous, right?

The same.

Actually, fiber, depending on a lot of the fiberglass is different vinyl, so it doesn't put the wall, you like fiberglass.

So I I don't know.

But yeah, it's a mill guard fiberglass.

Right.

Well, everything can be painted.

Everything can be painted.

Well, with vinyl windows and manufacturer doesn't I know, but they're avoided, but that's what I think is not vinyl.

Right, okay, great.

And even the vinyl windows, I've done it.

You if you do it right and you know how to do it.

Yeah, I mean I've got some that are going on fourteen years now.

But um, yeah, if you can just get away from the white trim, sorry.

Anything but the white would be great.

Um I don't know how the other commissioners feel about that.

You're just laughing.

So um the other question I have is um if you can go back to the front view.

Oh, hold on.

No, I can get it back up.

Um I'm just curious, the on the lower gabled window, is the window height the same height as the door and the picture window, the front door and the picture window next to it.

Same header.

It is, it's the same height.

Okay, great.

Is it just that that the siding between the top of the window and the gable looks unusually large?

Um sort of out of proportion.

Um, but if you're following here, it looks like it.

The window is actually a little lower.

Um, but if it's if it's following the if everything's following the same lines, I guess there's not much we can do you can do about it.

I'll talk about the the gap you've got the you've got the top of the window, the gabled window, right, and then the dis the wood siding between from above the window going up to the roof line, that gap, that's like really large.

Um, but if you're following the other lines, there's not much we can do about it.

Oh recommendations.

Um, well, I don't know if there's much you can do because if you make the window larger, it's it's you're gonna lose the lines that you're following on the first floor, you know, and then your your gable roof line is following the roof line above it.

So I think we're sort of stuck.

Unless you want to put a piece of stained glass in there.

I'm a stained glass guy.

Yeah, I'm I'm wondering if it looks off because of the difference.

As well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, just maybe the perspective of the drawing.

I can see your and the because the front door and the other window are set back, the shadow line is covering some of the lengths of the the wood.

So it I think it is the same number of boards above the window head to the to the right.

Yeah, the lines are the same, but because you don't have the eve coming over, yeah, it looks you don't have that eyebrow.

Yeah, so it looks sort of weird.

So um okay, that's all I have.

Yeah, I do want to I'm sorry, I do want to appreciate the fact that that you made so many changes because a lot of people are very, very resistant.

Uh um, but I I do appreciate that, you know, and I think for what you've done, um, and I've driven through the area, um, it's a good fit considering you're putting a new building into a into a historic area.

So good job.

Thank you.

Yeah, and I also want to just add to that, I was at the uh, you know, I'm in the design review committee and really appreciate you taking all of our comments.

I think you incorporated every single one and really listened to the the critique that we had, and I think it's came out as a better design because of it.

I think it's a great use for a long vacant lot.

Uh it's perfect opportunity for a sensitive infill project to provide housing.

So yeah, I think it looks great.

Thank you.

Okay, is there a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve each of the items.

State is a lot to approve the step staff recommendations for the historic landmarks commission, um items one, two, and three.

Is there a second?

I'll second that.

Okay.

Um I'll take a vote then, Commissioner Cohen.

Uh, you're nay.

Yeah, I'm yay.

Absolutely.

Commissioner Bainwall.

Yes.

Commissioner Arnold.

Yes.

Vice Chair Valendari, yes.

And Chair Royer, yes.

So the approved uh unanimously with one absent.

Okay.

So it's a recommendation for a little.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Okay, and um agenda item number four, planning referrals.

We have no items there.

Agenda item five, general business item A, the 2025 Historic Landmarks Commission annual retreat.

Turn it over to you, uh, um thank you, Chair Royer.

Well, it's that time of year again.

It's hard to believe, but we're coming up on October.

Um, and that's the month that we traditionally have our annual retreat, which is really um, I think all of you Mr.

Van Wall, if you've been to no, okay.

Have you?

You've been to previous ones, but not.

I don't think we've ever we ever did one when I was on okay that I can remember.

It's more training than a retreat.

So it's a little bit of a misnomer, but um yeah, so what we usually do is agendize for two things.

One is to pick a date and time, and the other would be if you have any particular topics that um you're burning to excuse me, have training on.

Then that's something that we can um consider.

So I would suggest if you would like to start with a date in October.

Um we typically do it on a Friday but we're also looking at the potential if anybody wants to do it on a Thursday.

It's up to you know to you guys whatever whenever you think you can attend the best.

Yeah I personally have no preference and I did do it with Pat Cologne.

We did a couple of them.

Okay.

Yeah yeah I just when you say retreat I'm thinking about Acapulco.

About what you're not being something fun.

Friday generally work well for me.

Um would it be afternoon similar to last year?

It was one to five last year.

It doesn't necessarily have to be that time um yeah if you can come to a consensus as to when you think it would be convenient for you since it is during work.

Yeah for me Friday afternoons are better.

Okay.

I can't and I would say that I'm out of town on the 24th and and I don't think we should do the 31st.

So it would be the 17th, the 10th or the third.

I don't know if that works.

I am out of town on the third okay or the 10th or the 17th.

Dana is it possible possible I'm sorry is the hybrid possible here.

Um depends.

What what I'm contemplating is doing part of it um in the conference room that could be hybrid.

Um but we were contemplating having commissioners then um take their probably take their own cars because I don't know that we have the budget for transportation but um to go do some training out at the um ICler historic district so you could attend part of it or um or if there was not so much interest in that then we could do it all you know training in the conference room and you could attend hybrid depending on the topic.

So the 10th or the 17th of the 17th after probably not good for you.

But now we're down to 10th Commissioner Cohen is that work for you?

Yes.

Okay.

So the 10th and the afternoon.

Okay.

All right so let's move on to topics does anybody have any topics that they're particularly interested in or feel that they've you've been lacking in the course of meetings.

I mean I brought this up before but I think you guys have already done it we're short of you commissioners um but um I the his the history and the purpose of the Mills Act and um oh my god what's her name no um with the working with the Santa Clara Wineries she and her husband are are the BAM yeah the Bambergs uh Bonnie yeah um she she knows you know she or knew Mr.

Mills whatever his name was and she was part of the writing and development or is very familiar with the writing and development and I've had several conversations with her on how there's a lack of understanding of purpose of the Mills Act.

So and that there are properties out there that actually qualify for the Mills Act that do not know that or do not move forward because they're told you don't qualify.

And I think the Mills Act, um, having really good clarification on that was up when I was on the commission previously, um, there was always there were issues with what does it cover, you know, um, and I think that's something that we spend a lot of time on.

That that's something that is a topic that I think you guys may want to essentially educating the public about it too, or or spreading the word and and publicizing Mills Act.

We haven't had a Mills Act contract come before us in quite a while.

No, we didn't have any in the last, we didn't have any this year or last year.

I think a lot of people to your point don't understand it or don't really know how to use it.

So it'd be good to educate ourselves and then how we can help on that knowledge.

I mean, I can I get a lot of inquiries, but most of the properties are not eligible.

So it may be that you've got state legislation here, but we also have a local historic preservation, um, you know, ordinance that has our own.

So we've implemented it on the local level.

We have our own requirements based on the state requirements, and so our requirements are that you have to be a designated city landmark.

So there's a lot of properties that are interested in getting a contract that are in a uh landmark district, but we the the city council has decided not to extend the um the incentive to districts, so it has to be an individually um eligible property.

So most people um that I correspond with, they they don't properties just don't qualify.

Right, and there's uh um we don't I don't want to delve too far into this, but um uh it's also supposed to include property, the whole purpose of it is to bring a property back up to the best condition possible when it was first built, and uh there are properties that have been refused um that need the money to make the difference, even though they may not qualify in the condition that they're in.

Um, so and um that goes for landmarking also.

Um, I mean, I'm in dangerous waters here because I own a property like that, you know, that uh um isn't getting landmarked because you know, of the windows aren't original.

Other, you know, it's like that fine straw.

And um, but if I had the mills act, then I can go change all the windows and then it qualifies for landmarking.

And there's quite a few properties like that.

Uh so um, and I think the other side of it is understanding how the benefit of the Mills Act works with the property taxes.

Uh and um uh I spent a lot of time uh on and off the when I was on the commission and off the commission working with the uh assessor's office as far as exactly there's a formula that's applied that determines what the break is on the tax relief.

And um, we went through a period where that formula wasn't I worked with the uh assessors and showed them that the formula wasn't being uh applied properly, and they reassessed 300 properties in Santa Clara County and corrected that, but there was a lot of misunderstanding because the person that did that for 20 years retired.

And you know, so that's another fine point.

You know, if you you get something like the rucker mansion on South Third, you know, and he says, Well, I applied and I got the Mills Act and I got a five hundred dollar break on my property taxes, and it cost me six thousand dollars or whatever to get the mills act or three thousand, whatever the permit is now.

Uh he's because I've already done this work, whereas if you go to another property that needs the more it seems like the more work the property needs, the bigger the break you get.

And and I think that there should be s we should know the guidelines that the assessors using so we have an idea, we can't tell somebody what their break is gonna be, but we can have an idea of where they could fall if if we're being approached by that.

So uh, and I can tell you firsthand knowledge.

Uh I have three properties that are Mills Act, and um the worse condition they're in, the better the break I get.

So that's those are the little innuendos that I think are really important for us at all.

Any other I I guess clarity, Dana, when you mentioned tell me a little bit the is it by J.

Tell me.

Um, well, um we have draft ICLER design guidelines, actually standards, um objective design standards that are gonna come before the commission um in October um for recommendation of approval to the planning commission city council.

So one idea was we could go over the guidelines, sorry, the standards and potentially the secretary of the interior standards or any other guidelines you wanted to go through, um, and potentially another topic or or two, and then we could go out into the field and we could actually look at the neighborhood, and the um we could look at some plans of projects that we've received and like kind of a little bit like we did last time, but in the field and sort of go to a couple different houses in the the district.

I'm I'm very familiar than I was just that was more curious.

This would be the Fair Glen additions neighborhood here.

Fair Glen additions.

Yeah, it's soft full of gun.

Right, right, right, yeah.

I think the Mills Act one is is good.

It sounds like I think just a general overview would be helpful.

The other topic that I think is rapidly evolving is the interplay between the historic districts and maybe contributing buildings that are not eligible for listing and how that interplays with state legislation that would allow for like SB 423 or things like that.

Um, because I think you know, we've at least since the time that I've been on this commission, there's definitely been a number of properties that have come up using the state streamlining.

Um there's limitations legally on, you know, what they can and can't do and what the city can push back on, I think.

And so I think it would be helpful for everybody to understand what those limitations are so that when we're commenting on projects, we have that in mind.

Um that makes sense.

I'm sorry, is that including the um the restriction now from the state that we can say yes to this and no to that and they fall under because we've run into that here and I don't understand it.

Yeah, so that's yes, that's the housing accountability act, and right the whole yeah, that would be awesome.

I would really like our I know that that's sorry, that that seems like a really big topic.

Yeah, I'm not sure we can accommodate that on short notice, but and I kind of down here, yeah.

I kind of called Jason up here, ask the big question.

I just yeah.

But my understanding and Jason can um elaborate is that we're only we can only apply objective standards.

So anything that is, you know, a clear, bright line standard we can apply, but otherwise we we can't.

So so generally speaking, yeah, it is objective standards.

So like tonight we had a housing project come in, right?

And they need an HP permit.

HP permit is slightly different, it's a different process, but still if you noticed in my presentation I mentioned they did do a density bonus waiver to waive one of the standards.

That's something that they can do because they're providing affordable housing.

So even then they did, you know, make sure that they still met the intent of the historic preservation ordinance, even with that waiver.

Um, but yeah, that's something, and then with the various state laws, I think they have there's various different treatments of historic properties, whether on a local register or not, whether you're just on the state register or national federal register, or you know, so it is a very big topic, I I think the sequel team especially grapples with this a lot, but um yeah, it's it's it is a very big topic.

Yeah.

I mean, I personally before every hearing where there is one of those, I spend time looking into like what state streamlining that project is using and to be cognizant of the comments.

I just think that um it helps the commission focus their comments and energy into things that they can actually influence versus making a bunch of comments on things that really you're not gonna be able to move the needle on.

Um and I I don't know if this is maybe just like a larger comment for planning to think through like providing more guidance for various commissions.

I'm sure this comes up at planning commission all the time as well.

Um, because I do think it's we're gonna see more of it, um, definitely as we move forward in the next few years.

More more projects relying on the state state streamlining.

And and it's an easy answer for the ones that are landmarked because they can't, you know, those ones simple, but for like this property that's in a historic district, um it wouldn't be subject to the same limitations.

But I think I would just say this in general, um, not just historic properties, but a lot of it is what a developer is willing to do, what they're willing to listen to, especially because we're saying, okay, we can apply, you know, our objective standards, but at the same time, if you're a density bonus project, you can waive almost everything.

So sometimes it goes back to staff going, hey, this isn't a good idea.

Are you sure you want to do this, right?

Or you know, what with with properties in districts, we have more of an opportunity to say, Well, I don't think this meets, you know, the historic preservation ordinance.

I don't know how you're gonna get an HP permit this way, right?

But again, I I think it is a really big topic.

It affects planning in a lot of ways where I think what people think of planning has in the last five or six years really changed, where now we are just checking boxes a lot and saying, Oh, and a developer has the right to come say, Oh, I don't want to do this, and the state and state law backs that up.

So it is a delicate balance, but I I think, yeah, in general, it is a lot of what the developer's willing to do, and I think especially for historic data is very willing to tell people, hey, you should do X1 X, Y, and Z, but at the end of the day, um the developers do have a lot of power these days to just not do it.

So, uh I don't Yeah, I was gonna say I'm thinking that um for especially the latest um assembly bill that it's maybe might be a better fit to do some like a study session um, you know, during a commission meeting when we don't have a lot of business.

Um when we have sort of a more comprehensive, and I think that the hard part is and and maybe it's more like a couple case studies is that each project's different.

So there's there's not like you know one thing that applies.

Um like has it been is it on the inventory?

If it is, well what's the classification?

Does it need an HP permit?

Because that changes, you know, the requirements and stuff too.

So um I don't know how I would tackle that to be honest, that that type of presentation.

I feel like we almost start if this then um we just don't have that information like readily available right now.

Um yeah, any other suggestions?

Did I get more than right?

That is the what did I mean I think last year we had someone come in and give a presentation.

I thought it was really helpful talking about historic rehabilitation.

I think that was the topic last year.

Um or like adaptive reuse, sorry, of buildings, and uh one thing that I recall from that was that they talked about the cost savings of adaptive reuse versus like new construction and all kinds of really interesting um I think just beyond just the justification of like adaptive reuse is valuable for society because it's retaining historic buildings in a new way.

There's other financial justifications that I had heard that I thought was I just thought that that session last year was really helpful.

So maybe it doesn't need to be for this year, but like maybe for I'm trying to think which one that was.

Yeah.

Is that last year or the last year, yeah?

Well, because that last year was my first my first year.

At the retreat, the retreat, yeah.

Yeah, I can't think what that would be, but I'll go back to that.

That was two years, that was two or three years ago, yeah.

Yeah.

So I don't I can't think which one.

Were you there then?

Yeah.

Am I imagining this?

No, I'm pretty sure we had it.

That's why it's yeah, I don't think you were there, okay.

Um I think it was me, Paul and Larry, so yeah, down to the I just can't think what I was looking at.

Um Becky Urbano, Becky Urbano from ESA.

The what?

Becky Urbano from ESA.

Oh, right.

Yeah.

It was somebody from ESA.

Yeah.

Um I can put out a call like I did the last time.

Like, does anybody have any you know?

I mean, that was a presentation she had kind of canned that was already put together, but it was new.

Um it's what I have found when I put a call out for particularly new things, the consultants are grappling with it as well.

So they don't have anything prepared.

Yeah, but they she had just done that for something else, um, so I can ask if they have anything.

Um I've been going to a lot of particularly with ESA, a lot of presentations about um state, state, federal laws and what's going on with that status and historic preservation.

Uh that that could be something potentially because they've been following that um really closely.

Um also the National Trust has been putting on presentations um about this state of affairs um with the federal laws.

That would be yeah, I mean with the executive order, exactly.

Ben, did you have any suggestions?

No, it's like we have to see that.

I'm just wondering, I mean, would we have our local ordinance, but you know, the calculations as you said are done by the Santa Clara County Assessor um office.

Um, so we had them come in two years ago, the assessor's office and talk about how they do the calculations.

Are um are we thinking that we would do that again or I feel like it would be helpful to have a primer on just the Mills Act application in San Jose?

I think it would require obviously the the state level and then the local implementation of kind of what are the thresholds to qualify for the Mills Act.

Okay.

Um both at the state and local at the local level is what we would care about.

Um, and it sounds like the local requirements might be more stringent at the state level, or yeah, you know, you can get more restricted but not less restrictive.

Exactly.

So that would be helpful to understand.

And presumably that ordinance that makes it more stringent is something that could be voted on by the city council.

City council has yeah adopted that policy because we are saying that we will give up the property taxes for whatever property we interpreted my sense is it would be hard to get them to move on that.

But I think to Commissioner Cohen's point it would be helpful to understand how that impacts historic properties because I think obviously excluding historic properties from being able to qualify for that would potentially put some properties at risk not being rehabilitated.

The other thing I could talk about is we had an intern who was in for a month um who was an undergraduate student from San Jose State her name was Gabby.

I don't think she ever got to come to a commission meeting because we didn't meet in why didn't it the Metasray?

Oh okay.

And her project her discrete project for the month that she was there was to put together some uh monitoring and compliance documents so that will um eventually come to the commission and probably to the city council as well but um we have to review it and go through it and you know all that stuff but that's something that we could talk about too because we will be implementing that project probably next um calendar year.

Okay.

I mean we don't we generally meet only for four hours right so we're gonna potentially take field trip to Eichler and do Mills app overview time for are people interested in I we like I said we probably won't have one vehicle to take everybody are people interested in going somewhere else in the field or would you rather just stick with various trainings um in the conference room like to do a walking tour kind of of yeah I would be interested yeah okay carpool yeah.

The option is sitting in a conference room for four hours I know you know but if someone wanted to online or whatever you know I know I totally get it.

Um and they haven't had really any of those in the last few years so yeah.

Okay, okay.

Uh moving on then to item six referrals from city council boards commissioned or other agencies there are no items under that item uh seven is open forum do I open it up to see if anybody has anything to speak about an open forum yes has it been six months ago that we were we formed a subcommittee to meet about the uh the hardship one two three I'm still waiting for somebody to set a date where we do it live or yeah we discussed it at a previous meeting um and I think there was other action pending that we decided to put it on hold I'll have to go back and look at meeting minutes but I thought there was no action for us to take at that time you recall no I think that was the data of reuse um one that we talked about the hardship yeah it was the act of reuse yeah yeah sorry it was the act of reuse it wasn't we've I'm just folks we just do I mean subcommittee we gotta do something it's been six or you know now that you're chair if you want to step down or you know that's totally fine too um I could agenda for next month to you want to reformulate the committee or we're just talking about a meeting date or yeah, yeah.

Whatever we can put it on the agenda for this month.

Okay.

And can we, Dana, can we the three of us communicate without going through the city or city email and website?

Which isn't right before a meeting.

All official commission business should be on your city email.

Okay.

Right.

Who's the three of us on this committee?

Am I on it?

No, I don't think unless you want to be on the I think it was especially the reuse.

Pushing the reuse one of it, but what I heard was that the city doesn't have the budget to do that, right?

I think that was the one that yeah, we decided to put a hole.

Yeah.

Anybody else for anything for open forum?

Question?

Um, sorry, I actually do have a question, uh, for Dana.

Um so there's a property on North Fifth Street, um, and uh I don't know if it got landmark or eligible for landmarking.

Um 277 North Fifth Street.

Um these flippers bought it, and they put in some vinyl windows on the second floor.

I called code enforcement, and code and I got a message back that we already have complaints from other people.

I don't know about what.

Never heard from anybody again.

The windows have stayed, um, and I don't understand.

I'm I'm I don't understand it.

Maybe that the code people don't know what to do because I think I can't remember if it's landmarked or not, which is embarrassing because I actually put an offering on it, but um uh I don't know what happened, you know.

Does code not respond to that?

Do they not understand?

Is it something that the commission can say, hey?

Why is this happening to this house?

Do we have the authority to do that?

Why isn't action being taken?

Um so code does understand.

Um we actually have a planner um that works in the code enforcement department that processes the required planning permits for code violations, um, this doesn't seem to.

Are you looking at the inventory?

Yeah, I don't see any um classifications on here.

I don't know what it is.

It's not a landmark, so um but they would since it's not a landmark, they wouldn't need a historic preservation permit, but they would need a single family house permit.

So that would get processed by our code enforcement uh planner.

Um, so I'm sorry so if it's not landmarked, but it's still it's listed on the inventory as I can't find a classification.

Yeah, I couldn't I couldn't either, so I wasn't sure.

It's got to be at least a contributing strict.

It should be a structure of merit because of the house phenomenon.

It's a contributing structure.

Right, okay.

But it's outside of a district.

Yeah, it's a block off outside of Hensley.

Um, but it's surrounded by I mean I own a landmark down the street.

There's a landmark across the street.

Yes, it certainly is.

It's just outside of uh a district or conservation area.

Um, and that's actually that's another question I would have maybe for a study session is you know when people buy these these properties that are uh structure under a landmark, structure of merit or less.

What can they or can't they do?

I mean, the that as an example, that house had beautiful the whole front had the original sandstone from I think it's 1898, and these guys went and painted it.

You know, that's a crime in my heart.

Can they do that?

I mean, and and I don't know.

So that's difficult to enforce because we don't regulate painting, but certainly not something that we would you know, so there's no permit that says you you have to get a permit to paint.

So it's hard to to regulate.

Right.

Um but can they I mean if the place was full of stained glass windows and somebody painted them all white, do we not have the ability to say no you can't?

Well, we so like I said, it's a contributing structure.

Right.

You would have to get a single family house permit for exterior alterations like changing out windows.

What applies is the year old house guidelines.

So the planner evaluating that application would apply the standards that you know would relate to that particular work and evaluate against the year old house guidelines.

Um if you know, if part of the project said we're gonna, you know, repaint the sandstone, then you know that probably wouldn't be something that we would support.

Um, but if it's if it's caught after the fact, it's a little bit hard to to deal with.

Um it's really hard to, I mean, we wouldn't wanna be we wouldn't want to stampblast it to get it on.

He did that, they put in vinyl windows because should be under the old house guidelines, which the vinyl windows certainly don't qualify.

Um, then what happens?

We put it in and we hear enough.

Yeah, there should be an existing violation, and there's probably a queue, and they take them as they can with limited staff.

So I would imagine that it will get dealt with.

Uh it just may not be immediate depending on what their workload is.

And is the solution to have to replace the windows with something else?

Yes, they could.

Uh-huh.

Okay.

We'll have to see it's been eight months, so the challenge with that is so somebody gets, so let's just say a single family house permit is issued, and they need to put in um, you know, metal cloud windows or whatever, something that's you know more compatible with the house.

They get the permit, permits issued, and then they sit on it.

We can't make people do the work.

So these code violations are really, even though they've gotten the permits to do what they're supposed to do, we can't make them do the work and execute that work.

So oftentimes those permits just sit.

So it's just a very difficult situation to resolve.

Aren't there administrative penalties?

That accrue.

Um, well, technically, yeah, but technically they're they're not really in violation because they've gotten the permit.

The permit's valid for two years.

You know what I mean?

Um, then that's that kind of gray area.

But if they didn't put if they didn't pull a per so there's two issues.

One is they didn't pull a permit, which I know they originally started doing a lot of work in the house and they didn't pull permits.

It's called Sunday.

You know, they had contractors on Sundays doing stuff.

But the other side is that that and is my point is that um if they do the work wrong and they don't follow the guidelines, what are the repercussions?

Does the does the city is the the project manager supposed to enforce or does code enforcement enforce and do they know what they're supposed to be enforcing?

They do.

I think that they the idea is to give the property owner a chance to rectify the code violation.

So, you know, first they have to get to it in the queue, and then they have to get the person to apply.

Um, so that may take some time.

Then we have to get the plans um to a completeness state, um, where we can issue something uh or make sure that it's compatible.

Then they get the permit, then they have two years to implement the permit.

Um so they're just very difficult to resolve.

But they know what to do.

It's limited staffing.

You know, they address the um violations as they go.

I don't know how they assign them and that kind of thing.

Um, because it is it's part of the planning development, you know, department, but it's um it's a different um division.

Okay, thank you.

Sorry.

No, it's okay, don't apologize.

Not your system.

Anything else for open forum?

Okay, uh moving down to item eight, good and welfare.

Skip over A.

We already covered that.

Item eight B one design review subcommittee.

There was no July design review subcommittee meeting or August.

Um the next one's scheduled for September 18th, but do you don't have anything scheduled?

Yeah.

So like we won't have that.

Um next is eight C one, appro the approval of action minutes.

Recommendation is to approve the action minutes for the historic landmarks commission meeting of June fourth, 2025.

I make a motion to approve the minutes.

I see.

Great.

Uh Commissioner Cohen.

But yes.

Commissioner Bainwell.

Yes.

Commissioner Arnold.

I'm sorry.

Yes.

And Chair Royer, I approve.

Um and then the next item, eight D status of circulating environmental documents.

We have any reports.

Um none related to historic resources.

Okay.

Then our meeting is adjourned.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you.

Um, oh, we could go through.

Yes, sir.

Yeah, that was Oh yeah, you're gonna be out.

He's 12 now.

Oh, see?

Yeah, yeah.

It's just because when they were now he's like 12.

He doesn't want to doesn't want his picture and argues with me, but when he was this agent, I know they are.

They are yeah, I have the picture.

My daughter is probably around.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

She looked at a picture I had and then a photo.

Yeah, it's like, oh, second reading hasn't been a lot.

Second reading's actually.

So what yeah, last Tuesday, 827.

Yes, it's uh it's uh rezone.

Oh, the second reading for the officially appropriate.

So you can approve and report out next month.

I'll just make a note.

Can you think of anything else?

I always have a hard time keeping track because it's usually the big EIR, but um, they haven't had it.

I think so.

I don't know of anything.

I guess I could have reported out on our issue with gateway towers.

There's two ways that was approved by one is now I oh yeah, that's a full job.

Did they ever do it?

Oh, I know it's a person.

The property side bone.

Um that's why I really like to do that.

So many times, you know, even if you want to hire.

So that's one side.

The other side is pointing yet, that's great.

Okay, it's not I'm not worried.

I am the uh that would be.