I don't know.

I might give you my opinion.

And this is the one they did in March 4th in this form use.

Yeah, I think it's a thought of the things.

I think that we should be getting back already.

Okay.

We have a quorum.

So welcome to the Historic Landmarks Commission meeting.

Following roll call during summary of hearing procedure, we will review how the public may provide comment during today's session.

Roll call.

Commissioner Kokora is absent.

Commissioner Cohen.

Here.

Commissioner Camuso is absent.

Commissioner Bainwell.

Commissioner Arnold.

Commissioner Golandari is absent.

And Chair Royer, I'm present.

Procedure for this hearing is as follows.

After the staff report, applicants and appellants may be a five minute presentation.

I'll um if you wish to speak on any item, complete a card and hand it to HBO Peak Edwards.

When I receive the speaker card, I will call you forward.

Each speaker will be given up to two minutes for public testimony, and speakers using translator will have up to four minutes at the discretion of the chair.

The time allowed to each speaker may be changed depending on the number of items on the agenda, number of speakers, and other factors.

Speakers using a translator will have double the time allotted.

After the public after the public testimony, the applicant may be make closing remarks for up to an additional five minutes.

Commissioners may ask questions of the speakers.

Response to commissioner questions will not reduce the speaker's time allowance.

The public hearings will then be closed, and historic landmarks commission will take action on the item.

The commission may request staff to respond to public testimony to ask staff questions and discuss the item.

If a commissioner would like a topic to be addressed under one of one of the good and welfare items, please contact planning staff in advance of the commission meeting.

All public records relating to an open session item on the agenda, which are not exempt from disclosure pursuant to the California Public Records Act that are distributed to a majority of the legislative body will be available for public emailing by emailing planning support staff at San Jose CA.gov.

At the same time, the public records are distributed or made available to the legislative body.

Before we begin, I want to remind the historic landmarks commission members, members of the public to follow code follow our code of conduct at the meetings.

This includes commenting on specific agenda items only and addressing the full body.

Public speakers will not engage in conversation with the commissioners or staff.

All members of the historic landmarks commission staff and the public are expected to refrain from abusive language.

Repeated failure to comply with the code of conduct, which will disturb, disrupt, or impede the orderly conduct of this meeting, may result in removal from the meeting.

The meeting of the historic landmarks commission will now come to order.

Item number two is consent calendar.

Again, no items.

Item number three is public hearings, no items again.

Item number four is public is planning referrals, and again we have no items there.

So on to item agenda item five A, General Business, the City of San Jose Certified Local Government Report for 24 2024 to 2025.

And I'll turn it over to Dina Peak Edwards in a moment.

The recommendation here is staff recommends the historic landmarks commission review and accept the certified local government program annual report for the October 1st, 2024 to September 30th, 2025 reporting period.

Thank you, Chair Royer.

Um we have a couple of commissioners.

You are back again, but I don't know if you remember or you've forgotten, but um this is something we do annually.

The city is a certified local government.

Uh it's a nationwide uh program that encourages cities um to take an active role in identifying historic properties, registering or designating them, and then preserving them through things like their historic preservation ordinance and design review.

Uh it's a collaboration between uh a city or a county, the state of California, meaning the historic preservation office and the National Park Service, which oversees the National Historic Preservation Program.

Um we've been a participant since 1997.

And agrees, we agree in this, it's really an official kind of I suppose kind of legal document that's signed that says that we will enforce laws to help protect historic resources, maintain an active commission.

So part of the reporting is how many meetings commissioners have attended, um what kind of actions you've taken in terms of designating properties that's all reported, um, keeping an inventory of historic properties involving the public in preservation efforts and carrying out other responsibilities, like um there's federal uh money that's allocated by HUD to the city, which is the housing nerve and development that we allocate to um to individuals, and so we make sure that the money that we're giving doesn't impact negatively historic resources.

So we carry out those responsibilities too.

Um so each year we report on our activities, including updates to local laws, um, new designations, project reviews, commission activities and training, progress on surveys and inventories and other public outreach.

Um so as Chairboyer said, this particular reporting period is for October 1st, 2024 through September 30th, 2025, um attached to the packet online is the draft report.

Um, some highlights include adopting the San Jose Eichler neighborhood objective design standards, pardon me, adding two properties to the historic resources inventory.

Um we had our annual retreat in 2024 of October.

Um, and updating the historic preservation coordinates.

Um it's a requirement that the commission uh review and approve the report before it's submitted to the Office of Historic Preservation.

It's due by April 24th.

Um so we ask that the commission um review and accept the report.

Um I apologize that if anyone clicked on the attachment, for some reason this year they've done it in a different format where the you can't see the more than one line on the report because it's filled in, but it has scroll tab.

I don't know if you think that it I did.

You can't uh what's that?

I went and copied and printed it out.

Oh, did you?

I don't know why they did that, but um anyway, so I could bring it up if anybody would like to um look at it.

If you have any questions, let me know.

I'm just I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, I was just gonna say it was a reflection of the things that we've done.

And I when I was reading it, I said, Oh yeah, we didn't.

It's like looking through a photo always.

Like I forgot about that.

So that's my only comment that it was a good for me.

It was a good reflective uh activity of good job.

Well, and I think um sometimes it can be demoralizing to feel like you know you don't have any impact looking at you.

Um so you know, these it shows that there are things that uh we actually um the commission accomplishes.

Um and so there really is stuff that is tangible that you can say that that accomplish.

And it helps to know for me, it's like what's the path forward, you know, as we look forward.

Um I'm constantly looking in the rear view mirror um to see where I'm going.

And so that's that's what that does for me.

And you know, with the ICLOR standards and with the ordinance, you know, you know, looking forward that those are things that um we're gonna be sort of acting on processing.

Um we will be having the um Levitt Pavilion, the St.

James uh Historic Preservation uh permit application coming in August.

So that will be using uh that new provision.

So you'll see these things kind of in effect as we develop.

And that was actually part of what I was gonna ask.

Well, will we move for?

I mean, we're moving forward, but we're moving forward now with um the council being able to do whatever the hell they want.

So is there a minimum amount of things that we need to do to qualify or meet the obligation that's set forth?

And are we going to be able to do that and make a difference when I mean no matter what would whatever we say, you know, just like the parks department last week?

I mean, they really didn't care, is the feeling that I got, you know.

Um, and it was it's just like going through a motion of coming here and then ignoring it and going home.

Yeah, you know, and that that's my real concern, you know, and I do, and I know we talked about it last week that um that the four-year review of the general plan that we are having no part in that, and next week they're talking about land use issues, and there's nobody from historic preservation from this, you know, body that's being asked to sit in on that review, and it's like we're I just my personal feeling like we're really being shut out, and I don't know, you know, I mean, we do what we can because there's a limited amount of development going on, sure, you know, but with being excluded from groups like that, I'm just curious whether we're even going to be able to have a report next year that has anything of substance.

Do you I've been wondering about this, and I sometimes I'm so far off of what the main conversation.

Do you think that so much of this is changed with the present set of council people that they don't have I don't want to say an appreciation for the old, an appreciation for historical landmarks, or is it a lack of not being aware of or having knowledge?

And I know you folks are constantly letting them making them aware of the historical nature of all of the area, the buildings, the statues, that you know, all the things that we discussed.

But I I wonder sometimes and of late more so is what is it?

Is it a lack of appreciation?

Is it a lack of knowledge?

Is it uh an appeal to their constituency?

I'm I'm just I'm not I'm just right so in these things.

So what you're what you're asking to me, I'm what Mike the I'm reading your question as to me as a commissioner here, um this is my opinion, and I don't know.

Okay, well, my opinion is that the developers are running the city because the developers are the ones that supported all the campaigns.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

So and now Matt's running for governor, you know, and and I and I'm I'm gonna say it's my opinion, but I think it's based on fact because I'm very involved in other groups downtown, the SOFA committee and and whatnot, and a lot of development, that um they're doing whatever the develop the developers to me, the developers running the city.

And um, Matt is gonna do it has been doing whatever they wanted.

And um uh Anthony has absolutely been doing whatever they wanted, and I think there is an appreciation on their end for historic.

I assume everybody has an appreciation for historic.

Um, but I don't think there's any desire to um to be uh an active in preserving historic resources, and I think that's those are the from the actions that they've taken, that's where I come up with that opinion.

Okay, I I you notice I raise questions because there are things that will come up, and I'll it'll be a question mark like what I don't understand that or why is that happening, or what's happened that we're doing this and not doing that in preservation.

But but you saw it when we spent all that time on the uh on the ordinance.

I mean Dana spent hours on that thing, and and they didn't even it wasn't even part of the staff report.

I mean, it was a sideline, you know, forgetting our time, just Dana's time.

I mean, our historic preservation was a sideline.

So, you know, I think that's that was to me.

I read that, and I know Dana was as frustrated over it.

I read it as a very clear message that there's just no interest, and um that and they've been very vocal.

Our our district three, which is downtown, Anthony's been very vocal that historic preservation hinders development.

And he's not the only one.

Uh um, but they've been very vocal about that.

You know, why should we we have to build and and if historic gets in the way, then we gotta get rid of historic.

Yeah, that would, if I may, um going back to the general plan task force.

I don't think that the commission's being excluded because the task force is is the planning commission.

So they're not I don't think there's any kind of testimony or you know, expert bodies or groups that are being brought in, historic or or any other interest group, so to speak.

So I don't think there's any intent to exclude there.

Certainly, you know, I represent the commission and I work with staff to the extent possible on these issues.

So it's not that it's not being considered at all, but the planning commission is the is the task force, and then they're kind of taking comments and discussing uh with the public, but there are no other groups of any other kind that are any other commission represents.

So it's not um that's not exclusive.

Um I think you know, with the mayor's initiative, um housing and homeless are you know at the top of of the bill.

So and also the state housing laws that drive that as well.

Um so I think that's that's a priority.

Um and that's really where you know we as um planners and the planning office try to integrate things so that we're planning and we're not um I mean, there's to a certain extent there's only so much we can do if it's state law and they use you know certain state laws.

Uh we can't literally can't do anything about that, but we try to plan to the extent possible if someone's not using those laws to consider you know, historic resources.

Um the commission's always been a recommending body.

Um there's been lots of times in the last 20 years where there hasn't been councils that have been very pro-preservation.

I I can't think of the time really where there has been.

So I don't know that that's hugely different.

Um you know, we used to get sued a lot for our environmental uh impact reports.

Sorry.

You you weren't the ones doing it was before your so it's there there's always been a lot of you know pro-development.

Um I I think where we're coming from now is we're really trying to um button it up, provide you know, excellent analysis, uh making sure that our CEQA documents are defendable.

Um so we don't have these lawsuits, and if we did do we usually win.

Um, and just to provide, I mean, all we can do is provide the technical information and the different points of view and make sure that that information is out there.

That's what the commission is for as a recommending body, um, is to provide that because you know, if you look at the general plan, there's a whole bunch of different things in the general plan um to be considered.

And historic preservation is just one element of that.

Uh so you know how how much it's considered, you know, is different, I'm sure for different people and different council members.

But um Joseph, and I I didn't know um, this is just an is it Morrow?

Marrow, yeah.

Um, who's the the he's um kind of replacing um Karina who was the liaison who was acting as a liaison for the commission for um council member Mokehi's office.

Um so he's coming to our meetings, which is great.

He started um last month.

But I don't know if you just had anything to I don't know.

I don't know if I have any additional.

Yeah, um it's something that our office really cares about.

Yeah.

Um and I can't speak from other council offices, so I won't I won't speak past that, but it's something that our office cares about.

And council member McKay, as you know, has been asking the questions.

I've really appreciated for sure that um even if the decision doesn't go, you know, in the way we might want it, at least they're talking about it and it's on the table because of the memos and things that council member mokay write.

So to me, that that's um that's important, and it's just having a stake, you know, a seat at the table, whether despite of what direction it goes.

And to I think to speak to your question, in order to remain a certified local government, we just we need to have a commission and a historic preservation ordinance, right?

know in the way we might want it at least they're talking about it and it's on the table because of the memos and things that council member okay right so to me that that's um that's important and it's just having a stake you know a seat at the the table whether despite of what direction it goes and to I think to speak to your question in order to remain a certified local government we just we need to have a commission and a historic preservation ordinance right those are the two yeah that's must have to continue so as long as we we have to meet I think four at least four times a year so as long as this body still exists and there's still an ordinance for us to and then an inventory you have to maintain yeah and an inventory and that was one of the items um that's being pushed forward in the budget is to do a little bit of cleanup which I think I talked about some months ago um the budget still has to be adopted by um the council but that is an an item in there on to reevaluate things that are like um identified structures because they go through the same review processes that a national register property does the moment um because that those requirements are just applied across the board to anything in the inventory so we also have standalone identified structures so they're I mean not identified contributing structures so these are contributing structures that are not in a district or conservation area they're just standardone right a neighborhood thing so looking at those um and then also maybe you know looking again at some of our candidate properties to to put those forth for designation so I think that will be a worthwhile effort too to try to make things as transparent as possible and have good documentation and and that all provides a foundation you know how the building is constructed as something else but the foundation is can we I know there's a little can we um like the trestle can we make a recommendation that that gets landmarked um you could I um personally don't recommend that because it really creates uh dividing situation um I know that happened with City View um plaza um and the uh bank building um so that's not um to me um a recommended action um and it doesn't really it just puts the council in a position um that we would rather have them make the decision with the override in the environmental process than to go through through that it it just I think it um if it's not designated and to designate it while somebody's going through the development process sets up unfair expectations for somebody who is proposing development um the the set process is to go through the environmental review um not to stop the development in the middle of you know the the project which is part of what the inventory cleanup is about trying to make it as predictable as possible thank you it's my allergies on my code it's my allergies I'm crying as well do we um so we we do need a motion is there any other public comment yeah can you take public comment on this oh yeah we can okay great um I I just want to say aside the thing that's bothersome about the four-year plan unless something's changed they weren't taking public comment and so it is an insular process if we're not taking public comment and I'm not sure that may have been the the meeting that I went to but um I I was surprised you know I I wasn't surprised that they assigned the planning commission that probably the appropriate body you know but it didn't they weren't taking the public comment for some reason I haven't been to any so I number six at 715 okay so it's maybe today's agenda maybe today thanks um yeah no on this on this topic of the certified local government report I just have to say um you know out of 7,000 employees we have one historic preservation officer and she does the work of seven people so um I just I would be remiss if I didn't say thank you Dana you know for reporting this um and that that's sort of the um the preface to the next comment which is um it really is a an important thing to be a certified local government um on a couple of levels you know one level is um a possibility of grants um it's not a lot of money that comes out of uh the national level that filters down um I think it was like 2.3 million dollars last last fiscal year um and then I think the state ended up with maybe a couple million or something out of that that they could allocate amongst all of the cities so there's not a lot of grant money uh to be had

You know, one level is um a possibility of grants.

Um it's not a lot of money that comes out of uh the national level that filters down.

Um I think it was like 2.3 million dollars last fiscal year.

Um, and then I think the state ended up with maybe a couple million or something out of that that they could allocate amongst all of the cities.

So there's not a lot of grant money uh to be had out of the project.

Um but it does have a structured process for review projects, which if you're a developer, that's good because then you know what to expect, right?

But also it's good for our city to have a certain to be certified local government um because it gives you a legal standing.

We were basically saying that we have legally reviewed this, and uh we if we do end up in front of a judge, then um we can say that we went through a process that was uh based on expert announces, whether that's through a consultant or from this body.

So I've heard it said before, you know, why the heck are we showing up?

Well, if we love our city, keep showing up because um because it does give the city the opportunity, yes, to issue a statement of a writing consideration in packing historic resource, but um the alternative is that you abandon that and then you leave it to everybody to sort out what the courts and the city doesn't have the standing that it had beforehand, so um I just offer that up as a encouragement to my city, but also to all of you.

Um and then I just had some ones from open ended question.

Um I'm particularly interested in 106 because it's outside of the state, right?

It's more NEPA, I guess.

Uh it it's it's kind of the same.

Um, you have to consult with the state.

Right, okay.

Yeah, and to we get how do we get notice of sort of NEPA?

Does that come as a notice from the federal government or does that um well 106 was what I've got to do?

Yeah, so we have an environmental planner, uh Rima Mahale, who does our um NEPA section 106 planning.

Uh, we also have staff um that she works with that works with our housing department because we have the C DBG funds that are also allocated for small um residential projects, mostly repairs and things like that.

So periodically we get a batch of those that were remaining to make sure that you know something's not a landmark or eligible or something like that, and I haven't seen anything that's popped up that's you know, okay, cause me any concern.

But um it depends on um well, I guess we usually know because Rima were the city's usually the lead agency, um, but we have had other projects where other departments like um the Cal um uh federal housing, I think it must be a California branch of federal housing sometimes is the lead agency, and and they will do you know work with um the SHIPO on that, and then we'll get notice from the consultant.

Um so sometimes it works like that too.

The consultant on a project, yes.

Okay, so if a project has given HUD funding or something like that, then they're required to go through the 106 process, and if they don't, then it if the feds decide to intervene, that could be an issue, right?

And so do we get I'm just asking you do we get flagged on that?

I can't think of anything that we haven't done, or not me, but that hasn't been have to go through the process.

Okay, yeah, you don't get your funding now.

Okay, so at first it goes through the state um for consultation and then it goes up to the federal brokerage for that.

Yep.

All right, thanks.

Okay.

Any other commissioner?

I'm sorry, Joe, do you have anything?

I don't or any other commissioner comments or questions on the certified local government report.

Okay, uh, is there a motion to uh accept the report?

I mean that we record that we accept the staff report recommendation uh the recommendation that staff record uh that we accept the certified local government program annual report for uh the October 1 2024 to September 30th, 2025 reporting period.

I second it.

Okay.

Um share cohen?

Yes.

And Chair Lawyer, yes.

Okay.

And then item number six on the agenda is referral from city council, forwards, commissioned or other agencies.

We have no items there.

So item number seven is open forum.

Members of the public are invited to speak on any item that does not appear on today's agenda.

And if that is within the subject matter jurisdiction of the commission, the commission cannot act or cannot engage in substantive discussion or take any formal action in response to the public comment.

The commission can only ask questions or respond to statements to the extent necessary to determine whether to one refer the matter to staff for follow-up, two request staff to report back on the matter in the subsequent meeting, or three direct staff to place the item on a future agenda.

Each member of the public may fill out a speaker card and has up to two minutes to address the commission.

Do we have any items?

Yes, ma'am.

You knew I would be yeah, no, this is fun.

Um so last weekend.

I'm glad you're you know, you got a smile about um this last weekend, it was such a blessing.

Um we got to see a family who is in the 30% AMI category, uh, get the symbolic key to one of four units of the Palace and uh apartment building.

Yeah, so it's now been relocated.

That was a that project was the master class of bringing all these different entities together to make make it possible, right?

You know, because anybody knows anything about affordable housing right now, there's nothing affordable about building it, right?

You know, or or restoring it.

But um, I have a fun story to tell about this is um when when it was five years ago to the day this last Sunday that we moved it, right?

That we moved it from five years ago already.

Wow.

I remember it's a long process.

Your historic preservation officer, the architect, John Froley worked really hard to retain the integrity of the building on the outside.

I maintain it's still eligible to be landmarked because it's in its similar context and orientation and and the look is the same.

It's been restored.

Um, but um, but putting that aside for the moment, the really great thing is I said to Habitat for Humanity five years ago or five years plus ago.

Actually, we started in 2018.

Um, you know, uh, can you guarantee me?

We say all the time, the most affordable housing is the housing that already exists.

Can you guarantee to me that this will be affordable?

And they said, yes, it will be affordable.

And I can't say what the price is, but it's amazing.

It's it's beyond description of how inexpensive it is.

But I you remember the reason why we moved this building is because there was going to be the Gateway Tower project that was going to be built originally by uh Katie Urban, and then it was changed to scape a uh UK-based you know organization that built mostly student housing and uh they managed it out of Boston and to make a long story short and went bankrupt, right?

They get they got it built, but it went bankrupt.

And so all the sort of the promises that went with that just kind of went away.

And um, and so this the city in infinite good wisdom decided we really need to have uh housing for city employees like first responders and others that just they they're serving here, but they can't afford to live here.

They're coming in from the Central Valley, and so they developed a program with the new owner of the property to have a hundred they they scapesold all of the studios, but none of the one in two bedrooms.

They couldn't sell the one in two bedrooms, right?

So they couldn't lease them.

And so the new arrangement is the cities come up with this program where they're gonna put a vouch, basically a voucher around every one of the rental leases with the people that qualify, you know, based on whatever the criteria is, but um, but that's 197 units.

So I was able to say from the podium that because Habitat for Humanity trusted this lowly little you know preservation group, um, they not only kept the word and created a four affordable maintain four affordable leaders, but because of the 1970s they've added, they really added 201 to affordable units to the tax.

qualify you know based on whatever the criteria is but um but that's 1970 units so i was able to say from the podium that because habitat for humanity trusted this lowly little you know preservation group um they not only kept the word and created a four affordable maintained four affordable leads but because of the the 1970 they've added they really added 201 affordable units to the banks so it was a really positive uh you know outcome and I saw when council voted on February 24th I think it was you know for doing this that it was one of those rare occasions where yeah the project went bad somebody some bank that you know left at the table went out you know getting their money but um but there are some people who are able to have affordable housing as a result of saving start building for a four box so who knows the building um ATG or something I can't remember the so it's another development it's another LLC of something right now not the city looks good too it's not the city it looks good yeah and it seems like it's a very nice property but you're talking about the the high rise yeah and they build it I'm talking about the apartment the hall yeah well the palace and apartments are gorgeous inside they maintained the old um you know they uh let's not go there and then they maintain they took like they had to take the stairway up and they made shelving out of it so and but if you think of historical preservation this is one thing's really hard for me really it's what the public can see yeah that is what qualifies you know for you know landmarking status and so as much as it grieves me and others to see elements inside of building you know uh changed and from like most of it we have we have to we have to keep our at the prize which is saying what the public and is concede from the curb so anyway well thank you for that update way more than two minutes I saw it in it I I when I read it I said this is I remember this when it came to the you know that was so exciting yeah it was going to be saved yeah okay will there be other opportunities to tour for those of us that could not actually get over there I will if you want to get in we'll get you in but we have to go soon because the the actual move in date will probably be in a few weeks here or so the inside 99% of it is not original.

I'm still curious four out of eight hunches I have two of them that I've saved so they didn't destroy John has two of them two over to his house but the whole entire I mean it's Purgo Flores and Che Rock.

Yeah so that but it's mine right you know it's something people want so yeah I'm still curious I want modern one I think yeah I I'm sure we can read anybody wants to see it please let me know and we'll schedule a time we'll get in the open house was last Saturday that's right any other items for open yes I think um Arnold was just gonna report I shared that uh our church is as you know a historical landmark and has been and yeah on Julian yeah 1893 was the founding date and it's in the same location and you know I know our preservation officer I've written several articles and books about that um we received uh an invitation um I didn't the chair of the trustees the uh church asked me to attend a meeting in Los Angeles uh by the National Trust and so they were the underwriters so I did go um and what they're looking at is historical African American churches the majority of them are in the South and when you look at preservation the magazine it always tells you about this church or they're in the east coast um but they're not west of the Rockies and so we were invited and it was about 75 of us different um churches from as far north as the Oregon border and as far south it wasn't as far south as San Diego um there were representatives um from Barstow I these are church and and the beyond the Central Valley um and I happen to know about a number of the churches because we're American Baptists I think I've talked to you about that with Grace being about American Baptist as well.

And so our church, um, I went with the group, uh the three of us, um, to the meeting, and it really looks good because we are we already have historical landmark status.

There are a number of churches, it was that the I was sharing with Dana, it was at this that the second Baptist church of Los Angeles, which is magnificent, 5,000.

And it was built in the first, I think the first one was like 1899, not 1900, but the latest rendition uh was built in the 20s.

And um, it was a good meeting, and our church is really giving some thoughts to having an active role uh with grants grants with cities that we are in or hit uh for preservation, and our the building that we're in now, this is the fourth and yoke.

The first you've seen pictures, everybody has seen Clyde Arbuckle used to you know show pictures of it, so I don't have one, it's on the website.

Um, but this is the fourth building uh of the church.

Uh the other one was where we are now in 1893, and the second one was um after the earthquake, the 1906 earthquake, and uh we moved for a little bit.

Um, and then the third one uh was rebuilt after the earthquake, and the present one came this came down in 19, I wanted to say it was like 1955 or 1956.

Um I'd have to look at my notes.

That's the fourth, yeah.

So we're in four right now, but as far as external, and we did a lot of internal work in the 70s, and so um a number of still have a number of members, and we have the parking lot and we own the apartments when we talked about low-income apartments, they stay full of.

Yeah, and it's not just our church members, but we have uh these one bedroom apartments.

There's about 12 of them that are right next door for housing.

Sectionally sexually.

You know, and that's why it went um the chair of the trustees asked me um to go to Los Angeles for a few days, and I said, Okay, all right.

So, but it's it's looking futuristically, we're looking at preservation of the building of the site because you can't tell when you drive down Julian, but there's sections of it over time, like we found as an example.

We found the will.

Um a lady gave her property to the church in memory of her housekeeper who happened to be African American.

Well, I often wondered why that part of the church was like really weird.

You know, it's almost like an L in the back.

And I said, This is really strange.

And so we found the deed, and in our archives, we have all the historical documents back to 1893.

We found the D and I think it was an envelope with some other papers in 1920.

And I said, Oh, that explains why you know the church, the rear of the church is so strange.

That's that's exciting, and it's I'll be around to see you because I will be talking to you, and I'll be talking to you as we plan for preservation with the grants.

The National Trust is real clear about um meeting their requirements.

And so I'm I'm just pleased they're coming, they're coming west.

And all of us were um that were there, we just kept saying the national trust is coming west, west.

I, you know, and everybody that we talk with, we were in a state of shock.

And some of the churches were not historical landmarks, but were in the process of becoming historical landmarks in their cities.

Come back and keep using it.

I will I will be backing.

I was just I was just reading about this.

It's so interesting because the COG stuff, you know, the budget that comes out of Washington for that.

This is an addition to it.

They if I understand it correctly for yeah, so that's that's positive.

Were there other churches from San Jose?

Were it not firsthand me, pretty?

First Anime is not historical landmark.

You can I can just tell you that they did approach me a number of years ago because I chair our historical landmarks uh community, and there's about 10 little ladies, including Joyce Ellington.

So we have um they approached me about um historical landmark.

Uh I had a lot on my plate, and um they were going through the whole thing of the pastorial the pastor changes, sure, and I don't get into church politics.

Okay, uh I don't do that.

And so no, they're not, and that's not their original building.

And then I met Mrs.

Brown, who let me down.

She didn't give me tea like the other ladies did.

Um Paul uh, but that's not the original building.

And if you look at the work that Clyar Buckle did, he has the photographs of the original church, which is down around Japan town, you know, prayer gardens.

Yeah.

Now, if anybody should be more historical than they were, I love the fact that when um Japan Town did their historical district, they include prayer garden.

It's on the inventory, it's on the inventory, yeah.

But I think it's uh I want to say it's an identified structure because it really hasn't been fully uh like you say research.

No, it hasn't been researched.

Yeah, um the pastor that has been there for many, many, many, many years, has um I understand that there is a new past senior pastor.

I really you have no idea how our church I spent a lot of time because people throughout California are always curious about San Jose in you know, this period of time, and then I do um because of one of the classes I teach.

I've taught I uh the um California in order to teach California in order to teach in California, you have to take course in California history, and so I'm always linking um the gold rush and believe it or not, San Jose, and there is lots of linkages with African Americans who worked up in the gold rush and the different um lines up there and how the families moved here now um Trinity.

I'd spent a lot of time with Trinity and she just passed away, Janice Paul.

Uh she's been the she was a church historian for like 60 some odd years.

Yeah, and um the Phoenix Institute was there, and that was a boarding school in the 1850s, 1840s for children um from all over the state that came there to to the boarding school for children who are African American and um a couple of Latino kids, but it was all boarding there at Trinity, the Phoenix.

So anyway, I'll keep in touch.

Um, but you have read about it, so I'm glad to hear the green bread about it.

Great news for the National Trust.

We're I'm still kind of in a shock because I know that this is an overwhelming project.

And as I listen to the to the different churches and all of their representatives, this will probably take me into my second retirement.

Great.

Well, thank you for sharing that.

Thank you.

All right, and last agenda item is number eight, good on welfare eight a is the report from Secretary of Planning Commission and City Council number one, uh an update on SD 79 and historic resources.

Um Mike had um talked about SD 79 at their open forum um last month.

So I had said that I would bring back a uh report.

Um so originally Mike's comments had to do with um the planning department going to uh council with some proposals about how to um handle SB 79 from um the city's point of view.

There are a couple different things that you can do.

One was exempting out employment or industrial lands, um, the other's historic resources.

So we had brought forth some recommendations, and council member Mulcahy at that meeting had said that he wanted some additional information about historic resources because there was an inclination not to take any action with regard to historic resources.

So we had a we analyzed where the historic resources are.

So SB79 is basically for lack of better words, upzoning.

It increases the density of well being allowed units within a quarter and a half mile of transit areas and stops.

And then it provides certain minimums and stuff with height and density.

So the proposal was to exempt out industrial lands.

And there was a question about so SB79 is upzoning, but it can be paired with AB 130, which is a law that exempts projects from environmental review or CEQA under certain circumstances.

So you have to meet the specific criteria that's that's in the law, but it potentially allows that.

It does not allow demolition of a historic resource, which we have determined as anything listed in our inventory.

But so we went back and we did the analysis that was requested.

How does it interface with AB 130?

Can we rely on CEQA to protect our historic resources?

So the first um conclusion in the presentation was we can't rely on CEQA because CEQA is just a um basically an analysis, a tool for um you know transparency, um looking at alternatives, um, but its role is not to protect historic resources.

That's what the historic preservation ordinance is for, and what that's um set out to do from a regulatory standpoint.

Um so that's the first conclusion.

Um the second conclusion uh was that well, AB 130 does like a project cannot use AB 130 that's going to demolish a historic resource.

Uh there's no definition or anything of demolition.

So uh we concluded that there could be an awful lot of work that could be done to a historic resource without any environmental review if it's not demolishing, which is pretty much according to most cities' definition is 50% more than 50% of the walls.

Um so that was the second conclusion.

Um, and that maybe one possibility would be to um develop a an alternative um definition in our zoning code of demolition that would apply to historic resources that would be more limiting as to what demolition is to try to minimize the impact of historic resources that there would be analysis.

Uh the idea behind that is there's lots of um resources we used, um the alliance building, you know, what's in Clara Street as an example where um it's eligible for the national register, it's listed on our inventory, but it's not a landmark, so it would not go through the historic preservation permit process.

So if something's not a landmark or in a landmark district, really the default is the SQL analysis, and in order not to have an impact, you know, it would need to meet the Secretary of Interior Standard.

So there wouldn't be any environmental review on a building like that if if it wasn't demolishing a historic resource, and that's really where a lot of our efforts are put into that SQL analysis and then trying to minimize those impacts.

Um so uh we were directed to well, and the other thing about AB 130 is that um if you're demolishing something that's um not on the inventory, we wouldn't be looking at that at all.

So one example that we used was the um the Sockaway House and the Sealy Avenue housing project where that was identified in the environmental review process, been taken into consideration.

And in fact, I just saw a email that was received today.

Yes, yes.

Yeah, so that house was actually uh moved to history park as a result of that whole environmental review process.

Uh, and that would not have happened.

Um this particular project was um, I think you have to be under 20 acres, and this one was above 20 acres, so this project wouldn't have qualified.

So this project wouldn't have qualified.

But if the project was 15 acres, then you know we wouldn't have looked at it.

So that was the other thing to note is just that these state laws, there's nothing you can do about that, except the point that we were making is that we still need to proceed with our planning and survey um work to document and evaluate resources and add them to the inventory because when they are, then that uh knocks out the use for maybe 130 for projects.

Um and you know, we didn't want to do it indiscriminately.

I mean, it needs to be important resources.

Um, but it just highlighted um that.

So we're going back and we're um to bring back a definition, another definition because we already have one just for regular projects, uh a new definition for historic resources um and demolition uh in December, I believe is our timeline.

Um then we're like I said, we've also um have a sum of money uh for I don't know if we were talking about this before the meeting, um, that's being proposed in the budget to be adopted by um the city council in June to clean up the historic resources inventory to um reclassify properties that are either just identified or contributing structures and are in some kind of no lands land categories um and then make recommendations for landmark dispositions.

Is the money pot gone that was for the um developing or expanding the resources inventory that was from uh finds almost.

I think there's about a hundred and change left.

Will that go towards this separate that will be a separate podcast?

That's separate for new additions to the resource.

We'll have to see.

Um historically, we have been budgeted additional money just um in this.

I fall under the citywide uh department and and in my line item for historic preservation.

There's been separate money as well for historic resources, which we've been using for our urban village surveys.

Like you remember the Saratoga and Esau Ellen Rock, um, and that money um was used for that.

So there's usually a couple small pods of money, but something like this is too big to be able to effectively use that money.

So there's a little bit left.

There's about 104,000 or something.

Thank you.

And then item eight A2 is an update on draft My San Jose Interactive Website for Historic Preservation Month.

Looks like we have a preview.

Yeah, so last month um I reported on um we we are doing a launch for um historic preservation month, which is in May.

Council member, we have confirmation now.

Council member Mokehi's office is doing a proclamation in front of city council on May 5th.

Um so that's really exciting.

Uh, we weren't council.

I I learned this this year that council offices are limited to two or three.

So there's all council offices overall, there's only three um proclamations or combinations and they can do in any council meeting.

And for some reason, April and May are booked up to the brim and different combinations and proclamations.

Oh, I thought it was three for the year.

It's just for the three permit.

I see, and everybody was vying to okay.

Yeah, April and May are very, very popular months.

Yeah.

Um so yeah, we'll be excited to see.

So we got we had an exception to do that.

Okay, that's really exciting.

So um along with that, we're gonna be launching this um My San Jose application.

Um so I just wanted to show you um basically what it will look like.

So I wasn't able to our um communications team has a million and one things going on, but I I wanted to get a draft of um so I could show you of the the landing, the web page, but I wasn't able to do that.

So this will be uh embedded as a link into this web page entitled My San Jose.

But what I wanted to share with you is um the questions and see whether you had any input about the questions that were asking or if you thought something else would be better.

So um on the main My San Jose web page, you'll be clicking on a link that will take you to this.

This is like the survey.

Um so it's like locate a historic place on the map that matters to you, and and the explanation is you know, the intro and all what it's for is on the main page.

And then follow these five EV easy stuff.

So first um you're gonna be typing in an address, um, and then locating it and then dropping a pin on um where you want to put it.

The properties um that are on there now are um existing landmarks.

Um so people can comment on an existing landmark, or they can identify something new.

So that's the first step.

Um, and then the second step is to just share more information about the place.

So um so the first one is the type of historic place.

After this, there's just a short video that our GIS folks did showing you how you would actually click on these things because this isn't um I don't have an enabled product at the moment, and you'll see how it works, but I'm just gonna explain it uh at the moment.

So the pull down menu is um whoops, um, like is it a business or house or more like doing yeah, and you'll see um in the demonstration.

Um so it's kind of trying to identify what type of place it is.

Um so that's the type of historic place, and then um this is just a click on, it's just to give us a better idea of what kind of story we're talking about in general.

Um, so uh ethnic or cultural community, a labor movement, civil rights or activism, arts and music, faith traditions, LGBTQ plus history, women's history, youth culture, architecture.

Um so those are just general categories, and I think there's also another.

Does anybody have any I was just curious about San Jose State?

Um would San Jose State like um like um you know, it's being the first uh normal college.

Institutions to civic institutions and education or something like that.

Educational institutions, yeah.

I I just thought about that because it's the first normal college in California.

I don't I didn't see an area.

No, there isn't one.

Anything else glaring?

You could there's another category where you can type it in, but I mean if there's a large category like that, that would be schools, schools.

Well, that's interesting.

Well, that's the educational institution.

Um I could put schools if that would be more vernacular.

I don't I almost would separate them out.

Yeah, yeah, too.

Because um there's the new book.

I don't know if you've seen it that is name.

He wrote on the history of the schools in uh San Jose.

Um it just came out last month, and it takes you it's all on the different schools and their uh locations and when they were founded, and he has pictures of what they look like.

Um what is this?

I'm seeing this guy right now, and the book just came out that I had it see if I could have, but schools are different than say um sounds like they're um lower level education.

K 12.

K 12, yeah.

Whereas um I'm thinking about all those gorgeous pictures of uh San Jose normal college with that uh and being the first.

Yeah.

Anything else is what about just like structures and thinking of the the trestle or other examples of something like that that aren't buildings, um or pieces, but just do you want to say engineering structures?

It it's hard to provide categories for that's like our language.

So I've been struggling with sort of how to put it simpler.

Um because if it's like structures and objects, yeah, people might not get there.

Yeah, so I don't know if other would be put in a bridge or I mean I could put engine like engineering structures or something like that.

Yeah, but that's good.

That tells you about my personality.

All right.

Well, well, I'll go on.

And if you have any thoughts, we can go back.

What about historic destinations?

What does that mean?

The bridge.

The trestle.

But how would somebody distinguish that different from you know what's a destination?

Huh?

Yeah, I mean historic destination can be anything.

It's just hard to parks in.

Yeah, parks.

I just talked to Milan.

There's a new park over Julian in the new area that they build over.

Compelling.

Yeah.

Oh, so remember the type of historic place.

Uh we can see as they're going through the demonstration.

That would be under type, not under the story.

So you pick a park and then you say why that park is important.

Yeah.

So this is about the story.

Is the story about you know, something to do with the labor movement or civil rights, or is it have to do, you know, with music like the Doobie Brothers, or stone fruit.

Agriculture, yeah.

I like the angle culture.

Yeah.

Especially home and farms.

Um, so this is just trying to get further into why is it meaningful?

So it just got kind of tries to go back to our basic criteria.

Um, which is did it something did an event happen?

Um is it a person?

Um or architecture.

And I tried, if you can think of some better examples, I just tried to put in some examples.

So for events, um, I just like used the IBM building in Notre Dame.

Um just that it was the world's first magnetic storage system, what's kind of discovered there.

Um people used in the Tommy Smith house.

Um, and then architecture just do um yeah, so these are just trying to get people to understand what we're looking for.

Um the standards, I think they make the distinction between architectural style and master architects, or I can't remember the exact expression that they have, but do you think that the public would be able to make that distinction?

You know, like this is a Wolf and Mackenzie versus you know, this is a prairie style.

I think if somebody doesn't know, then they don't know they don't know.

But yeah, I was saying that's pretty specific.

Um because it also I've put building type in there, so it would also cover you know um craftsmen.

Well, no, like a building, a specific building type, like um bar base compared to well one no, like one of the things that we put on the inventory recently was a um two things was the stable or the the stable that got moved on park avenue.

Uh the other one was the drawing shed, and it was significant because of kind of that building type.

Right.

Um so that's the kind of thing that I was talking about, but people somebody may not even know what that it's just so hard to well.

I think some simplistically for me, you've answered the who, the what, the when, the where we look through the um the demonstration with the um selection and then see if you have any further comments.

Yeah, we don't want it to have to get as specific as the secretary of charity.

Yeah, I just really more accessible to anybody who's I struggled.

This is the second version.

I took out a lot of the questions and I tried to simplify things.

I had too many to begin with, so I tried to kind of boil things down.

Um and then we wanted people to write, like, well, what does this mean to you?

Like, why is it it sort of goes off the national trust?

This place matters, you know.

Right, right.

Like why why do you care?

Why, yeah.

Personal connection, right?

Yeah, because at the end of the day, that's really what's the most important.

What's the story?

And so hopefully this will also provide a foundation for um I don't know if this is the right word but like defending places.

Like you know people this have said this that the other thing about this and this this it is defend it matters.

Right.

Um and then um we have a place to upload photos.

Oh that's cool.

Um or other documents it would just be JPEG um and then it just tells people how how it might be used and that um it's not going to landmark your property um and then there's the permission part so do you want it published with your name or just anonymously or no I don't want to publish it all but it will information that the city can use and then can we contact you and then what's your what's your name and then you submit and then is there a mechanism to verify the validity of what's been put in no we won't be doing that.

I mean it's almost that's difficult.

I it's just crowdsourcing the only thing we're going to be doing is this isn't gonna be so this is the survey and then um we will be looking at the information and make sure there's no yeah something really we can right yeah strange things strange once they're approved but we're not going to verify any information but once it's just generally filter and just yeah I mean it you know it's there's so much of you know what was going on during COVID and even before is well who gets who gets whose history is it who gets to decide what the history is and so if it's valid to that person right you know then it needs to be put out there.

It's not attributed is that correct what's up like if if he put something in is it attributed to him or is it as they have the choice to say whether they want it their name on it or not.

Yeah fantastic that's or not published at all.

So there's three choices.

Yeah great um so once we sort of make sure filtered out that there's not something scary on there then it will go into an embedded Mac which will also be on that same web page and then you can interact with it the way that you can for kind of like our historic resources inventory where you can click on the points and in those comments and information that was input will pop up so anyone could look at uh the different things that were submitted.

So let me see if I can get to the and when is the launch date on this well I I just got with our comms people today they're super duper busy.

We have a meeting on April 24th so the intent is to launch it um by on or before the 5th May 5th when the proclamation is going to be gone.

And then we'll be doing social media and um other you know promotions of it um so let me see if I can get to the video is going to be it's gonna be housed on the city's website or will it be a standalone website it's on the city home yeah so will there be a soft launch no one guy knows it's not I mean we'll Obama care we'll look at it internally you know I mean we have internal links and then it's we look at it and decide what we want to change it and if it gets published but it'll be fine so yeah it is you know we've never done this before so um right all right so this just shows you oops waiting so this just takes you through as if you were doing it yourself so she's going oh what point where do I want to put this oh I'm gonna put my point there these are the different categories schools libraries cultural building industrial commercial so that's the type of place.

Can you copy and paste information I'm not sure what you mean.

You can upload.

Yeah, like if something's on the There's always an other category.

So you can always add.

But but I mean when you add information on some of this, if you've got uh um uh historic uh um evaluation that you want to add information you want to add, can you copy that evaluation and then put it you would need to upload the document?

Okay.

You said it only is um JPEG, so you can't upload Vs.

Uh I think we can uh we just have um space issues, so we can't upload videos.

I'm pretty sure that's the only that's one of the major constraints.

That's what I was wondering.

Any concerns about copyright?

Intellectual property and copyright.

Um we haven't even that would come down to whoever does the posting.

Gone there, like not the not the keeper of the website, not necessarily I mean I think you not necessarily I don't think we're gonna really get that many documents.

Um I'm just thinking the example of like um what's the uh one that Berkeley runs uh sphere?

Like there's a name for it, but when you're getting historic photos, a lot of that stuff has a bug on it that says, you know, we need to get permission to use it.

But so you know who would be a resource is Ken Bellbrook.

Yeah, I think we're gonna have to see what I mean.

I'm I'm assuming these are people's photos.

But you still would people photos really um have to have some permission when we look at intellectual property.

It's their personal photos and they're giving they have to give you permission.

Well, that's what the commission thing was for.

Okay, yeah.

Well, will that cover it?

That's I don't know.

Yeah, because I know I I can't automatically use photographs, you know.

I'm really you might ask Ken what how they handle that because I get written permission.

And reason written because a lot of folks are of an age that they don't give it to the electronic.

I can probably easily just add something by uploading this document.

You don't think that this is your personal like a waiver leave or just a disclosure?

Yeah, but who's really you know, not not to be a dark cloud, but you know when we recently did something, we we ran into issues where you can't necessarily trust that the person that's telling you that it's okay to use it.

Uh oh, the permission to use it.

Yeah, so yeah.

And I I really I don't want to put a dark cloud on it because really that's only a problem.

That's a rare problem, but yeah, you know, say it just doesn't want to be exposed, right?

Well, I can ask our CAO's office, yeah.

What they think because in the meantime, you know, depending on uh on what we get, I don't even know if we'll get any, but we can publish the information without the photos or documents.

You're not selling anything, which I think is the big, I think the what the attorneys are gonna say you're not selling anything, so you're probably okay even if somebody takes information and gives it to you that they don't have rights on, but well, I don't know.

I don't know.

We also have issues.

One of the one of the big things of why our comps team is um backed up is um with the ADA laws to make PDFs accessibility all our departments unless we've had to deal with it on the um so um I mean it's good that we do have to do that.

So I'm not sure I you know, so if somebody does upload a PDF, would we have to either convert it so that it's accessible or what we've done on a lot of because you know we've spent a lot of time uh putting DPR forms, um attaching them to our inventory.

So we've had to um you can still click on it, which is great.

That the first the links were broken because they were saying, well, it doesn't comply.

Now they're back, but um, when you click on it and pull it up, there's like a uh banner on the bottom that says this is not an accessible document.

If you need an accessible document, please email you know planning support or whatever.

Um so that if there's an option to, yeah, I'm not sure what we'll do if we get the request, but uh there's an option to be able to provide that.

So that may be something else that we could do with PDFs and things like that, but um yeah, so I think there's there's still you know some things to work out, but um even if we don't publish that information, like the documents and pictures, we can still publish the stories, the rest of it.

That was a little demonstration about how you fill it out.

Um so that's it.

Great, thank you.

Good job.

Right.

Item eight the reports from committees, eight e1 is design review subcommittee.

No meeting was held on March 19th, 2026.

Next meeting is scheduled for Thursday, April 16th, 2026 at 11 a.m.

Anything look like the uh yeah, probably not okay.

Um eight C approval of action minutes eight C one.

The recommendation is to approve the action minutes for the historic landmarks commission meeting of March 4th, 2026.

I move to approve the action minutes for the March 4th, 2026 meeting.

Well seconded.

Great.

Commissioner Arnold.

I approve.

Okay, Commissioner Cool.

Approved.

Commissioner Beanwall.

And then 8D, status of circling environmental documents.

I don't think we have anything to report.

Couldn't have very many big projects lately.

Will there be one for the Levitic Pavilion?

Um the Levit Pavilion is um plan for an addendum.

So uh we already did the IR for that project that it disclosed a significant unavoidable impact, and the city council already adopted the ride for that.

So it'll come back just as a revision.

Um the addendum is just mainly addressing um phases or phasing the construction uh instead of doing it as one project, and that's the main portion of the because there's not really gonna be any uh changes to the design.

This is um of another topic.

I want to interrupt that topic.

It's I I have an issue with the with IT.

I have spent two hours with IT with Alfonso and with George.

They first I didn't have a license to have my old email commissioner email.

They had to get approval for license.

Then after they got approval for a license, um, then George um tried for an hour.

The bottom line is I think that it has something to do with my university.

Oh uh it has to do with my university, some restrictions on our side.

Yeah, there are a lot of restrictions on my side.

So I appreciate getting emails from Stephanie and everybody sent.

Sorry, you have to go through all that.

Well, it's been nobody has the time for you know, no, no problem.

I'm just saying that you can't email you have to use my my regular email.

I usually do yeah, I know you usually do, but to anybody else, that's what you'll have to do, and then she'll send it to me.

I I'm on Stephanie's list also, they couldn't get mine.

They couldn't okay.

But did you talk to George and Alfonso?

I don't know who I talked to, but we will know I went through a lot of things.

So I'll take George and Alfonso for coffee.

Guys, an hour each.

Well, we'll get back to you.

We'll get back to we don't understand this.

And so finally, that's when I said, I think it's me.

Okay, you just you can't get through the firewall.

Yeah, there's some restrictions uh for external.

And I said, okay, that that shouldn't be your issue.

Well, my issue is very special.

You don't have email or something.

I thought no, I have email, but to to do the final on we went through the whole thing whenever we start with it, and then finally said, well, you've got to you've got to do something with your cell phone to oh like right to authenticate, right?

Yeah, and I don't own a cell phone.

Oh so I see mine is set up for different authentication.

It's yeah, multi multi-authentification factor.

Yeah, and they they try to bypass it.

Yeah, they can't finally that.

I tell you, I spent an hour each with both of them.

That's how I know them personally by day.

This is how we make friends.

All right.

Well that uh that's the end of our agenda.

So we are adjourned for this month and we'll be back.

May I be here.

We used to have a thing.

Didn't we have a thing that's on the agenda?

We did.

I was just thinking that too.

Yeah, I just realized that's not there.

May 6th will be our next meeting.

So it'll be a day after the world.

Yeah.

The invite by our recommendation day, but now that you see I have this other Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

All right.

Rachel's day.

Rachel's staying.

What?

So these two are turning out.