I have not read the absolute I don't know to already do that was so bad.

Okay, everyone, I'd like to call to order the meeting of March twelfth, twenty twenty-six of the planning commission.

And if we could have roll, please.

Thank you, Chair.

Commissioner Carter.

Here.

Commissioner Sisko.

Here.

Commissioner Horton.

Here.

Commissioner Pardo is absent.

Commissioner Sanders.

Here.

Vice Chair Duggan.

Here.

Chair Weeks.

Here.

Let the record reflect that all commissioners are present with the exception of Commissioner Pardo.

Thank you.

And we have no remote participation.

We have one set of minutes from February twenty sixth, twenty twenty six.

Any changes, corrections, additions?

Okay, so none.

So those will be approved as submitted.

And now we go to public comments on non-agenda matters.

This is the time that if you are in the chamber and wish to speak on an item that is not on the agenda, please make your way to the podium.

You'll have three minutes to speak.

Seeing no one rise, I will close the public comment.

Duties include implementation of plans, ordinances, and policies relating to land use matters, assisting in writing and implementing the general plan and area plans, holding public hearings, and acting on proposed changes to the zoning code, zoning map, general plan, tentative subdivision maps, and undertaking special planning studies as needed.

Move on to commissioner reports.

Are there any reports by my fellow commissioners?

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

Item seven, statements of abstention or recusal.

Yes.

Um thank you, Chair.

I would like to say for the record that I have a personal relationship with a member of the applicant's representation team.

And in order to avoid any appearance of conflict of interest or the perception that my participation could influence the discussion or decision on this item, I will recuse myself from item 11.3.

Thank you.

It was a public hearing for Meadowwood Ranch.

Ms.

Jones.

Yes, thank you, Chair.

Let me get this up and running here.

There we go.

Okay.

Um good afternoon, Chair Weeks and members of the commission.

I'm Jessica Jones, Deputy Director of Planning.

The item before you is a conditional use permit streamlining initiative.

This is uh the proposal is to amend our zoning code as it relates to the conditional use permit process.

Um the purpose of that is really to focus on our economic development here in the city, um, trying to make this process more predictable and less costly for our business owners and applicants when they want to both expand and establish new businesses here in the city.

Um in addition to supporting our economic development efforts, um, is really looking at creating efficiencies both for the applicant as well as for the city staff and our our city resources.

So going over a little bit of background before I get into what's identified here on the slide, just a reminder for the commission.

Um we have been working to try to streamline a number of our processes over the last few years.

Um you will recall we started with our design review process um shortly after the 2017 wildfires.

Um during that time we created a director level design review process, um, which helped to streamline some of the developments that were coming into the city at that time.

Uh following that um we took a look at our landmark alteration process and um worked to create some streamlining um through that effort.

Uh and then so now we're we're moving on to our conditional use permit process.

So in April of 2024, um, the city council adopted their um five-year economic development strategic plan.

Um, as part of that, um, there's a vision for that strategic plan that includes um business growth, economic uh vibrancy and resiliency, as well as community investment.

Um of the actions within that strategic plan is to review and amend the zoning code uh where it is needed to align with economic strategies um in support of development initiatives and opportunities.

In February of 2025, the council adopted their priorities for um the fiscal years 25 to 27, and one of the priorities within those goals was to promote citywide economic development.

In June of 2025, the council adopted the general plan 2050.

Uh as part of that includes um various uh goals, policies, and actions within it to help promote economic development and to support the economic development strategies within the um strategic plan.

And um, we do have um some very specific language in there that also talks about um ensuring alignment with the general plan, the zoning code, um, and the economic development strategic plan.

So following all that, um, we started focusing on what this might look like.

Um, and so to help with that process in July and August of 2025, um, we met with uh business owners and commercial real estate brokers in some initial presentations and meetings to try to understand um how the process works for them, what works, what doesn't, um, how we could improve.

Um so we took a lot of information out of those meetings to kind of help focus uh what we would be um uh doing in a um in order to um uh streamline this process.

That then resulted in a draft proposal that was ultimately uploaded to our project website, and we sent notices out to all of those who participated in those initial meetings as well as to our Metro Chamber, the Downtown Action Organization, Railroad Square Association, visit Santa Rosa, and we also sent out notices to all of the holders of business licenses throughout the city, which resulted in a little over 10,000 emails just to make everybody aware of this, ask for feedback and review of the proposed changes.

So the proposal before you, I'm not going to go into detail in what was presented in your packet, but certainly happy to answer any specific questions that you have, but really just want to kind of focus on the three main areas that the CUP streamlining process pertains to.

The first is the creation of the director level conditional use permit.

So again, that kind of falls in line with the director level design review and landmark alteration permits that we recently created.

And really it's looking at providing an opportunity for projects or new uses coming in that aren't necessarily appropriate for being allowed by right.

We need to take a little bit of time looking at them, making sure that we've got neighbor compatibility, addressing parking, things like those, things like that, but aren't necessarily uses that would need a higher level of review.

So our current conditional use permit process entails two levels, which I'm sure you're aware of.

We've got the minor conditional use permit, that is projects that are reviewed by our zoning administrator, and then major conditional use permit, of course, comes to the planning commission.

So this really provides an opportunity for something in the middle to help with that.

In order to do the director level, we do have to create an opportunity for notification.

So we're not doing this without any input to the community at all.

So the way that the proposed language reads is that we would have a notification prior to taking action, and that would go out to property owners within 600 feet, which is similar to our existing notification requirements.

And that notification would go out 14 days prior to taking action.

It would let folks receiving the notice know what the proposal is, what the proposed or potential action would be, and then an opportunity to request a public hearing.

So if somebody is interested in and has any concerns or wants us to go for whatever reason to a public hearing, they can request that, and then it would go to the zoning administrator.

So with this creation of the director level conditional use permit process, kind of the second tier of this is to was taking a look at all of the land use tables within our zoning code and the permitting requirements that are currently identified in there and looking to see where we could find that efficiency and streamlining and reduce the conditional use permit level down from minor use permit down to director, major use permit down to minor, that type of thing.

So that's uh included in your packet.

And then the third piece of this was updating our temporary use permit section.

Um there's some minor tweaks in there, but the main piece of that is providing an opportunity for pop-up retail and interim activities on vacant sites or in vacant buildings.

And this is really looking at ways that we could activate areas that aren't ready for whatever reason to either develop or redevelop, but we want to provide some way to provide just additional economic activity and activate those spaces.

So in doing uh the review of this, um, we wanted again to ensure consistency with our general plan, which I talked about earlier, as well as our economic development strategic plan.

So everything that is presented before you has been reviewed and found by staff to be consistent.

And just also note in addition to working with the various businesses and organizations within the city on this, we also worked very closely with our economic development division to make sure that this would work with their goals moving forward in promoting the city.

As far as public comment, um, as I mentioned, we did post this, um, it was posted in January.

Um we did get some feedback from folks, um, primarily it was all very much in support.

There were some suggested changes which have been incorporated in what is before you.

Um we did get a late correspondence that came in, I think it was yesterday with some additional suggestions, which I'm happy to go over with you, which we can incorporate if the commission wants to do that.

Um, but as I mentioned, generally it was it was support for the project, including a letter of support from the North Bay Leadership Council.

So with that, it is recommended by the planning and economic development department and that the commission by resolution recommend to the council adoption of the zoning code text amendments, and I am happy to answer any questions.

Thank you.

Are there any questions or comments from my Commissioner Sisko?

Yeah, I just wanted to uh confirm that um for the CUP streamlining where it relates to alcohol uh requirement reductions that uh the only thing that's really being reduced are when we're looking at brew pubs, restaurants, that type of thing, and that the CUP process for off-site sales less than 10,000 square feet is not changing at all.

That is correct.

Okay, and then um question did you consider looking at um what the requirements are for when we're considering one of these CUPs for under 10,000 square feet.

There's a list of considerations looking at police statistics compared to others.

Um of which we can ever get.

And so I'm wondering if you looked at the discrepancy between what it is what they say we do versus what it is we actually can do, and sort of remedying that with language.

Yes, uh, thank you for that question.

Um, and that is something that um I know came up through this process in particular when I was reviewing this with our um internal planning staff.

Um we uh we did took take a look at that.

We know it's been a struggle over recent years.

Um, and um in years past, we were able to get that type as you know of information from the police department.

Um it has not been um as easy.

The information that they have doesn't um they aren't able to to kind of parse out the information that we need um for these particular items.

Um in looking at that section of the code um as I dug into it, um I really it to me it uh there was more work that needed to be done than just a simple crossing out of of some requirements and not others.

Um it's something that we need to take a more specific and closer look at.

Um, and so because this process is something that we were wanting to move forward to get rolling for our local businesses, uh, we didn't feel that we could do that piece justice in the amount of time that we had.

So we have added it to the list of policy work that we will be doing uh hopefully in the short term.

Okay, thank you.

Vice Chair.

Yeah, if you could uh speak to the points that were raised in the late course late coming correspondence from Mr.

Evans, and what what your opinion is on those, if that would be an easy thing to incorporate.

Yes, absolutely.

So, yeah, so Mr.

Evans um was requesting that uh a few um additional items be added to the wholesaling and distribution um uh uh definition within our zoning code, um, and specifically he was asking that uh paint tile, stone tile and stone finishes, major home appliances, furniture, and mattresses be added to the bullet point in that definition that talks about um stores primarily selling certain um uh areas of um of that type of kind of more construction and home improvement type um bigger bigger ticket items.

Um and so yeah, there's no concern about adding that as I was looking into this.

Um to me, it it I think the better place for that is uh the most, if not all of those items are actually identified in the land use for furniture furnishings, appliance equipment store, um, which is currently not listed in our industrial land use table.

It's listed in our commercial land use table.

Um and so my recommendation would be to add that land use to table two-10, which is the allowed land use and permit requirements for industrial districts, um, and allow it as permitted by right in our business park and light industrial districts, um, and then uh not allowed in the general industrial, just to kind of keep our general industrial to that kind of heavier manufacturing type uses.

Okay, thank you.

So I have a question on uh the appeals that would go to the zoning administrator.

No, I'm sorry, that if it would move move up to the zoning administrator, and then it would be appealed and it would come to the commission like it does now.

That is correct.

Okay, thank you.

Any other questions?

industrial just to kind of keep our general industrial to that kind of heavier manufacturing type uses okay thank you so I have a question on uh the appeals that would go to the zoning administrator no I'm sorry that if it would move move up to the zoning administrator and then it would be appealed and it would come to the commission like it does now that is correct okay thank you any other questions just a brief follow-up to Commissioner Sisko's question is there any uh hope of working with ABC so that their uh criteria sort of lines up with the data we can actually collect yes so I know um we've had we've got one item coming before you tonight um we've got another one in the works for you um so it's uh certainly yes we will we're gonna do everything we can on our end to provide the commission with um as much information as we can from both the police department as well as ABC um to get you as close as we can to uh everything that is identified in the zoning code as is being needed for your review okay thank you uh so with that that I will open the public hearing on this item if you are in the council and wish to make a comment please make your way to the podium you'll have three minutes seeing no one rise I'll close the public hearing on this and bring it back to the commission um any questions before I ask somebody to read the resolution somebody like to enter the resolution I will commissioner or vice chair Duggan I'll I'll move a resolution of the planning commission of the city of Santa Rosa making findings and determinations and recommending the city council adoption of zoning code text amendments to address streamlining and processed improvements for the conditional use permit process and wave for the reading uh chair weeks before we get a second on that um uh just question of the commission if you would like to add um the uh furniture furnishings appliance and equipment store use to table two ten of the zoning code um as allowed by right in business park and it light industrial and not allowed in general industrial is there agreement to go with that yeah okay so are you good with that since you made the resolution okay all right so now we'll need a second okay thank you second and is there a second okay who was the second oh commissioner Sisko okay so um we'll go ahead and start with commissioner Sisko i I mean I think this this is an important action by the city to you know to make things easier and well cost effective for for the city and for the businesses that work here and um I am perfectly in uh favor of it and with the additions thank you commissioner Carter yeah I think staff's analysis and recommendation is good on this one and I can support them and I can make the findings necessary to make a recommendation to the city council to approve it thank you commissioner sanders any time that we can um make plan review and permitting process more efficient and less costly the better so I have no um problems making the findings and we'll support the resolution thank you commissioner Corton thank you um yes I can make all the required findings just in the spirit of full transparency my employer Sonoma Clean Power is a member of North Bay Leadership Council and I sit on the board representing them I don't receive any compensation I did not uh personally you know uh vote on submitting the letter or was not involved with that and I'm not representing the organization here but just putting that out there so yeah I can make all the findings and uh very supportive of this thank you thank you vice chair I have nothing to add I can make all the required findings and I'm in support of adding um the information to table 210 and I also could make all the required findings um I think any time we can save time for folks that's a good thing uh I think your outreach was really good and I especially like the use of uh vacant buildings and properties for pop-up retail and events so thank you I can make all the required findings so with that thank you chair commissioner Carter aye commissioner Sisko aye commissioner Horton aye commissioner Pardot is absent commissioner Sanders aye vice chair Duggan aye chair weeks aye let the record reflect that that passes with six ayes thank you thank you for your work and with that we'll move on to the next item and we'll say goodbye to Commissioner Sanders

Okay, so this is item 11.3.

Uh public hearing MD market conditional use permit 1478 Granville Road, CUP 24-027.

It is an ex parte item, so we'll start with Commissioner Horton.

Thank you.

I have uh met with the applicant and visited the site.

Thank you, Commissioner Carter.

I also met with the applicant and visited the site.

I chair.

I visited the site and met with the applicant.

Commissioner Sisko.

I actually met with the applicant like a couple of years ago before the general plan update, and you know, there was still the consideration of the general plan amendment.

So I haven't met with him recently, and I have visited the site.

And I'm also met with the applicant and spoke to a neighboring business owner and visited the site.

So with that, uh Ms.

Tumans.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair Weeks and members of the planning commission.

My name is Christine Tumians.

The item before you is MD Market proposed at 1478 Guernville Road.

The request is for a major conditional use permit for alcohol sales and off-site consumption.

An approval for extended hours from 6 a.m.

to 12 a.m.

Um the uh request is for an additional hour, normal operation operating hours or permitted operating hours are 6 a.m.

to 11, and they're requesting an additional hour to be open till midnight.

Um the proposed use is a uh neighborhood grocery market, which is permitted by right, located in an existing commercial building as a former paint store.

Um the uh most recent tenant was a Kelly Moore.

Uh site improvements include minor interior tenant improvements, parking lot restriping and circulation changes, lighting and security upgrades, and there are no uh plans to expand the building.

The project is located at 1478 Guernville Road along the Gurnville Road Commercial Corridor.

It's within the North Station area, North Santa Rosa Station Area Specific Plan, and it's located near multifamily residential office and commercial uses.

Uh to the north, you can see um several multifamily residential units to the south again an apartment building, and to the east, you have more multifamily and commercial and professional offices to the west, there's a superchavez market, and beyond Super Chavez is the smart rail.

This is the general plan and zoning uh for the site.

You can see the purple um shows that the property is designated transit village and mixed use.

Um that was changed with the uh 2050 general plan.

Prior to that, the property along with the property across the street from Herbert Lane were designated PI.

The zoning is also TVM transit village mixed use, which allows for the neighborhood serving retail uses.

Um alcohol sales and extended hours require a major use permit, which is why we're here today.

And just to give you some project history, um on June 3rd, 2024, the applicant submitted their application.

At that time, the the property was zoned and um and designated PI.

Um the notice of application was mailed on July 5th, 2024.

Um, we held a neighborhood meeting on September 9th of 2024.

Um staff had difficulty moving the project forward given the general plan designation and zoning and the requested uses.

Um the applicant was uh staff recommended that the applicant either independently request a general plan amendment or rezoning or wait for the the general uh the 2050 general plan to move forward.

Um the applicant elected to wait.

The general plan amendment was adopted and the subsequent rezoning package was adopted on November 4th, 2025, and that resulted in the site being rezoned at TBM.

So under the zoning code, the commission's review focuses specifically on alcohol sales and extended hours.

The code directs the commission to consider public convenience, public safety factors such as crime and calls for service, alcohol outlet concentration, compatibility with neighbor uh nearby uses and site design features that help reduce nuisance activity.

And those site design features would include visibility and natural surveillance measures to discourage loitering, lighting and security features.

There are currently five businesses that currently have alcohol off-sale retail licenses that include Whole Foods, Target Safeway 7 Eleven, and the Cotting Town Bolero.

Included in your late correspondence was also the on sale alcohol retail businesses.

That includes a Super Chavez market across the street.

They actually hold a type 41 alcohol license, which is tied to their restaurant use.

So it's a restaurant related alcohol license.

And they're they're they're able to sell beer to beer and wine to go.

It would eliminate the angled parking that currently exists.

And this would improve circulation access and it avoids the need for off-site improvements.

This would also include parking for bicycles and ADA spaces.

Now the project involves reuse of an existing uh 5,040 square foot commercial building.

The proposed market would provide 17 on-site spaces, and while the zoning code would otherwise require 20 spaces, uh the site is located within one half mile of the North Station, the North Santa Rosa Smart Station and qualifies under Assembly Bill 2097.

Um that prohibits the city from imposing parking minimums for qualifying transit uh adjacent sites.

So while they don't provide um 20 spaces, they're very close.

Um this aerial shows what the existing park parking configuration looks like.

So you can see the angled parking, the two rows to the north and south.

And this is what it would look like with the change.

So with the notice of application mailed in July of 2024 in the neighborhood meeting, which was very well attended in September of 2024.

Um, staff received several written comments during the review period and after those notices were mailed.

Um alcohol sales, hours of operation, parking and circulation, safety and security, um nearby business concerns uh regarding extended hours and alcohol sales.

I did receive some late correspondence that was not included in your packet just a few minutes before the meeting regarding um crime issues uh related to unhoused individuals with bicycle theft and uh vandalism with the nearby residential uh multifamily buildings.

There were some um supportive comments from the uh regarding the people excited about having a neighborhood serving market and having um this vacant building activated.

Um staff considered concerns related to crime, late night activity and alcohol sales in light of uh code findings and consultation with the lieutenant um that's specifically assigned to this uh beat.

Um recommended conditions of approval include exterior lighting, surveillance cameras, on-site management presence, and operational standards intended to discourage loitering and reduce nuisance activity, and protect nearby residential uses.

So these were some of the issues that um we um uh resolved while evaluating this project.

The uh the major one was um the zoning consistency, so the site was rezoned from PI to TBM under the general plan, which allowed um neighborhood retail by right, um which um allowed uh the proposal to go forward.

Um the circulation issues were resolved with the applicant deciding on the circulation change, and then the operational controls that um the applicant um included in his project description, and we um included in the conditions of approval, which include exterior lighting, surveillance cameras, on-site management, and measures to discourage loitering.

Um the Santa Rosa Police Department reviewed and proposed uh reviewed of the proposed project as part of the interdepartmental review, and SRPD provided dispatch crime and arrest data for the vicinity of the project site covering recent years.

The data reflects a range of incidents typical of a commercial corridor, including traffic stops, suspicious persons, property crimes, and occasional disorder related offenses occurring primarily at nearby intersections, such as Groenville Road and Coffee Lane.

Based on departmental operational experience, SRPD indicated that the Cottingtown area is generally within the middle range of citywide crime levels and is not characterized as a high crime area relative to other parts of Santa Rosa.

Police also noted that several existing retail establishments in the surrounding area sell alcoholic beverages and did not identify the proposed accessory alcohol sales as creating additional public safety concerns.

Police further noted that operational and environmental design features such as exterior lighting, surveillance cameras, and active site management can help discourage nuisance activity when properly maintained, and these measures are incorporated into the conditions of approval.

Um this project was uh reviewed for CEQA, it's categorically exempt with 15301 for existing facilities and 1530 for minor construction tenant improvements because it's an existing building being reused, it's includes minor tenant improvements with no expansion of the building footprints and no CEQA exceptions apply.

And then just uh to note there was a noticing issue that um was brought to staff's attention um yesterday.

Um it was noted that a um on-site sign was missing.

Um staff confirmed that the required uh public hearing sign um was originally installed, and we have both an installer's affidavit and photo documentation confirming it was posted during the notice period.

The sign installer inadvertently removed the sign on Tuesday of this week at approximately 11 a.m., believing the hearing had already already occurred due to the earlier February 26th hearing date.

Uh, once staff became aware and inquired with the applicant, the applicant immediately reinstalled the sign yesterday afternoon and provided photographic confirmation.

Staff also confirmed that it was reinstalled.

Additionally, zoning code section 20-66.020A3 states that a defect in the notice procedure shall not affect the jurisdiction or authority of a review authority to take action on a matter unless otherwise provided by law applicable to and binding upon a charter city.

Based on the documentation confirming the sign was properly posted during the noticing period, staff believes believes the noticing requirements were satisfied, and the commission may proceed with a hearing.

With that, um, it is recommended by the planning and economic development department that the planning commission approve a major conditional use permit to allow alcoholic beverage sales for off-site consumption, extended hours of operation from 6 a.m.

to 12 a.m.

seven days per week, located at 1478 Guerrinville Road, subject to conditions of approval.

The applicant is available, um, would like to make a presentation.

We have representatives from engineering and also I believe the police is available via Zoom.

Thank you.

Are there any questions of staff before we hear from the applicant?

Okay, so um is there a presentation that they have?

No presentation, just uh if you have a presentation, please go to one of the podiums and provide your presentation.

And you may want to raise the podium a little bit.

There's a button on the other side.

Because you have to talk really closely.

All right, can you guys hear me?

Yes.

Okay, good.

All right.

Good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

Can you speak a little closer to the microphone?

I'm sorry.

It might be as high as high as it goes.

I'll scoot up a little bit, yeah.

Good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

My name is Harmon Dillon, and I'm the applicant for the MD Market project.

I'd like to begin by thanking staff for their time and effort in reviewing the project and preparing the staff report.

And I understand that commission has already reviewed the details, so I will briefly focus on the type of market we are proposing and the role it will serve for the neighborhood.

Our goal is to operate a neighborhood market that provides a wide range of everyday food items, householdness, household necessities for nearby residents.

The store will carry a variety of groceries and prepared foods so people can easily pick up items they need close to home.

For example, we plan to clear carry dairy products such as milk, butter, yogurt, cheese, half and half.

We offer canned goods such as soups, vegetables, beans, pasta sauce, condensed milk, uh, and many other organic and other organic products, non-organic products, grocery items that families commonly buy, such as breads, uh pasta, and much more.

We'll also offer refrigerated and prepared food options, including deli meats, sandwiches, wraps, quick meal items.

In addition, the market will carry frozen food items as well, such as pizzas, burgers, breakfast items, breakfast uh burritos, frozen meals, uh, including well-known brands that we currently carry, such as Amy's.

Another important point is that we do participate in the SNAP program, which is a federal food assistance program and administered by the USDA.

In order to participate in this program, retailers must meet strict requi requirements and guidelines to uh to offer a variety of staple food categories such as dairy, meats, vegetables, and other grocery products.

The USDA also conducts inspections and compliance and checks to make sure participating locations and stores continue offering a variety of foods and a lot and following the program rules.

The program is important to us because it allows us to serve members of the community who rely on food assistance while ensuring we maintain a true grocery offering.

While we do plan to sell beer, wine, and spirits, those items will simply be a part of a broader neighborhood market, similar to what you would see in many other grocery stores and small markets throughout the city.

I also want to emphasize that this will be a locally managed business, and we personally are going to be involved in it on a day-to-day, daily basis.

We take pride in maintaining clean, well-run markets, as we have been as a family, as our family has been for the past 30 plus years.

Originally started the MD market on Mission Boulevard in Rincan Valley.

Because we will be present regularly, we want to be good neighbors.

If any issues arise related to our business, we want the nearby residents and the community to know that we will be present at that location.

So they can come up to us, reach out to us directly so we so their concerns can be addressed quickly and responsibly.

As staff members, we want to run a clean, well-tained market and business, and we want this location to be safe.

The safer it is, the more inviting it is, the more appealing it is.

It's going to be better for us.

We do not tolerate any loitering, would not tolerate any sort of um nuisance that will disturb our business or the community.

We have been operating 15 plus locations in Sonoma County for the past 30 years, and our landlords and the community have been very supportive and have seen us succeed.

We have already been established in many, many neighborhoods, such as Rincan Valley, Bennett Valley, Windsor, West County, Occidental, Graydon, and we have been there for numbers and some places over decades, and the community has been very supportive of us, and we've always gotten positive feedback.

At the end of the day, this project activates a vacant property and provides the neighborhood market offering a wide variety, wide range of foods and everyday essentials to the surrounding community.

So thank you so much for your time and your consideration.

And I'm available to answer any and all questions that Commission may have.

Thank you.

Any questions of the applicant?

Okay, so why don't you take a seat for now?

And um thank you.

I will go ahead and open the public hearing on this item.

If you're in the audience and wish to make a comment, please make your way to one of the podiums.

State your name for the record, and you will have three minutes.

There is a countdown timer right there.

Um, my name is Steph Curry.

Oh, excuse me.

My name is Dr.

Les Shipley today.

And I'm a toptometrist who has a building of 1430 Gurnville Road right next to the old Kellymore Stadium.

I'm here building.

Uh I'm here to protest, allowing MD liquors to open in that store, not allow them to have extended hours from 6 a.m.

to six uh to midnight.

Now I've sent email to the Planning Commission email, but I wanted to summarize the reasons why they should not be allowed to sell alcohol, and especially not with extended hours.

First, the areas for professional buildings with medical offices and other pre professional businesses.

MD liquors does not fit in with those professional businesses.

Two, there's apartments right behind that building, immediately behind it that have had problems with crime.

Specifically, they have outdoor mailboxes that have been vandalized, and according to and uh other crimes, according to police reports, stores like MD Liquors attract people who commit crime and can make it unsafe.

There are plenty of other stores, as it was uh noted by Chris today within a quarter of a mile that sell liquor and alcohol.

Number four, my employees and patients would not feel safe coming to a building which is next to empty liquors.

Now I have many patients who are either older, children, or they have other types of risk.

Again, a story like MD Liquors is not conducive to that atmosphere.

Five, the smart train operates very, very close to there.

And I and people getting off that train, a lot of times it's dark or getting in the there in the morning.

That's a store like MD Liquors, not conducive to being next to the a place like that because people are going on and off the train there in the dark.

And finally, his point about selling vegetables and foods.

If you've ever gone into any of the stores, it's highly, highly advertised to sell alcohol.

There's there are some definitely other kinds of foods there, but it's strictly or mostly liquor and alcohol.

Uh I just want to thank you for allowing me to make my presentation.

And please consider that that type of uh liquor market doesn't really fit in that area.

Next next person speaks is a very special person that you should hear.

She happens to be my wife, Janice.

Thank you.

Thanks.

There's a button right there.

What button?

There's a button on a right or left.

Um you're right.

There.

Speak close.

Okay.

Hello.

My name is Janice Shipley, and um I am here to let you know that I am very concerned about the kind of patronage that um may be happening at this particular area.

Now, if and I have to tell you, the times of the um shop being open um 6 a.m.

to 12, where they sell alcohol is very objectionable to me, especially next to professional offices, tax people, um, all kinds of businesses that are called businesses and the professional park of Cottingtown Plaza.

Um so having to be next door to places that sell alcohol up until midnight and starting at 6 a.m.

makes me worry for any of my kids or grandkids that would want to sit in the office knowing that there were people next door buying alcohol and they could just walk over.

It's just it's a little bit too much for the culture of that particular area, especially because it's such a high residential area.

Um so you know, I would have to say that that wanting to provide food services is a great idea.

In fact, I would love it if it's 6 a.m.

He would open a boutique coffee shop because it has a beautiful blue awnings already.

It would be lovely for a breakfast place.

But as far as alcohol goes, I think we have enough alcohol in the area.

I mean, there's there's a a place that goes till midnight, you know, two blocks away, and then one block away, there's another one that goes to 11 p.m.

Um, it's it's just way too much alcohol in that area, as far as I'm concerned.

The other thing that's very important to remember, and I I I apologize that I um sent my email late last night.

Um just a last minute notification to you regarding some literature that I have read about the um increased crime that happens with alcohol sales late at night.

There was a study that the Boston University people did for the city of Baltimore, which showed that there was a 23 percent rise in violent crimes when alcohol stores were open till that late at night.

It was reduced by 23 percent when they reduced the hours of sale of alcohol.

And I'd like to, you know, hopefully you'll get a chance to read my email that talks a little bit more about that.

The lighting is uh the need for lighting would be extreme, the need for more police presidents would be extreme, and I think that um it would cost the city a whole lot more to have those services.

Thank you.

Anyone else who would like to make a comment?

Good evening.

My name is James Nobles.

I'm a commercial broker in the community here, and I am here to voice my support of the project for MD Liquor.

Um I have followed the project closely and and heard uh and read some of the concerns of the community, and I thought it was a really important thing to consider for this particular project is the quality of the operator.

I believe that in these kinds of scenarios that that is an important uh factor to consider in the safety and success of an operation like this.

Uh the operator has a strong reputation for running professional, well-managed establishments and being a responsible member of the community.

Excuse me.

That kind of active management will improve the safety with the oversight, the lighting security and measures in place.

And the site will be monitored and active in the evening rather than sitting underutilized.

I also want to point out that I think it is uh a use that is consistent with the new general plan and ultimately will be a positive uh establishment supporting the retail commercial uses and uh as well as the train users.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other comments?

Okay, so with that, I will go ahead and close the public hearing and bring it back to the commission.

Um I have a couple of questions and then I'll open it up to my fellow commissioners.

Um our role is not to approve the market, it is to approve the conditional use permit related to the alcohol sales.

Is that correct?

That's correct.

The uh retail the market is permitted by right.

So the items before you are the alcohol sales and the extended hours of operation, and uh the normal hours of operation permitted by right are six to eleven, and they're requesting to operate from six to midnight.

Thank you.

Um I think that was it for now.

I may have some questions for the applicant, but I want to hear what my fellow commissioners have to say.

So Commissioner Sisko.

I have a couple of questions for the applicant.

Okay.

Mr.

Dillon, then we'll start with you, Ms.

Go.

So could you explain the reasoning behind your request for the extended hours?

Yes.

So in our experience as living in Santa Rosa or Osoma County.

And being in being a business owner, we have staff that obviously can you get a little closer to the case.

I'm sorry.

I think we'll never get used to it.

Or just hold on to it.

I'll just hold on to it.

Yeah.

Thanks.

We have staff that start as early as 5 a.m.

And we have staff that work till as late as 10 p.m.

And we have other, and the reason for it, we have other markets in the area, like Grayton, for example, where we do stay open late, extended hours, and we do have folks coming in after work or before work as early as like you know 5 a.m.

Uh that is primarily the reason to offer for the community before work and then if there are coming home after work.

There's not a lot of places out there that are staying staying open till that late.

Okay, and then um do you have an idea of how much uh square footage in your store will be related to market use versus alcohol use?

Yeah, so we typically we're gonna have majority of our 5,000 square feet.

We are going to have an office there as well, where I will be there, we'll have on site.

And as far as the food food item goes, we're gonna have mostly all of the middle area is going to be food and anything all call related will be on the side as far as the exact square footage.

Um I I don't know off the top of my head what it would be, but this would be the largest uh footprint that we would have.

So we are definitely trying to offer as much food as we can.

And as far as all call goes, um look, there's we're not just going to be throwing a bunch of alcohol here.

We're not going, we're not making this into a uh with all due respect like a bedmo.

That's not our intention at all whatsoever.

Um again, with all the respect to their businesses, it's it's you're not gonna walk in and just see an abundance of all calls and there and nothing else.

That I can for sure promise you.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, I have a question for staff.

As part of the CUP process, um, can we condition any project to not um display like the neon alcohol related signs that a lot of this our typical liquor stores?

I believe our sign code uh would prohibit that um anyway.

Even in inside the windows of a Yeah, that would not that our sign code um prohibits those type of signs.

Okay, because you do see them all over town.

But if we if you see those, um our code enforcement operates on complaint basis.

So thank you.

Yeah, just a little more on the extra hours.

Uh what we see from ABC and our own codes talk about need or convenience for liquor.

I is there has there been any demonstration of extra convenience for the extra hour?

I understand the applicant's position on his staffing, but does it really add to the neighborhood functionality?

Question for staff or for the applicant?

For staff.

Okay.

Um the PCN uh or the public convenience and necessity um findings don't are separate from the extended hours of operation.

So that's a separate use in and of itself.

And um ABC didn't really weigh in on the extended hours.

Um I mean, overall, ABC has um say of California has a limit of uh when you have to stop selling alcohol.

So I mean they don't really weigh in on the extended hours.

Uh we did consult with the police, however, how they feel about extended hours.

And their general response.

They didn't seem to have a concern with extended hours because of the um uh security measures, the lighting um that the applicant was and and the conditions of approval that we were gonna impose.

Could we get Lieutenant Hackett up please somewhere?

I believe the lieutenant Lieutenant Hackett is on Zoom.

I'm I can't see who's on, but I think is it Lieutenant Hackett?

Yes, ma'am.

Okay, so uh Charles, do you want to?

Well well, I thought staff answered my question, but there were there was no concern.

What we heard was there was little concern from the police that the extended hours would add to the uh possibility of uh bad behavior.

That's correct.

Okay, thank you.

That's it just for that.

Thank you.

Um other so uh I have a question for the applicant.

Um and it kind of goes to Commissioner Sisko's question about the amount of square footage that is um dedicated to food versus alcohol.

Um in your other stores that are similar to this, and I I take it that none of them are because this is the largest uh but just generally what percentage of your business is alcohol?

Do you have an idea?

Um I would say it's uh less than 30 percent in some areas like Occidental where we do operate more in a style where we're trying to do here.

It's less than 20 percent.

Okay, thank you.

Uh uh any other questions?

Okay.

So um I'll start off with some comments.

I would really like to see the hours reduced.

You want to move a resolution first?

You know, a resolution.

Okay, sure.

Who's I can do it.

Okay.

I move a resolution of the planning commission of the city of Santa Rosa making findings and determinations and approving a major conditional use permit for alcoholic beverage sales for off site consumption and extended hours of operation.

6 a.m.

to 12 a.m., seven days per week, located at 147a Gurnville Road, file number PRJ24-014, C U P 24-027 and wave for the reading of the text.

Thank you.

Is there a second?

I'll second.

Okay.

So that was moved by Commissioner Sisko, seconded by Commissioner Carter.

So okay, I'll wait until the end then.

Um Commissioner Sisko comments.

Well I want to repeat again what my concern is between the discrepancy of what it says we look at and what it we actually can look at when we're reviewing these kinds of cases.

And just put out a request because um, you know, Commissioner Carter's point, there's a there's also a big discrepancy between the ABC areas and the beat areas of the police department.

And so unless we see those maps, the ABC can say there's no over concentration, but there's a line and then there's four of the next one.

So it would be helpful, I think, until the zoning code is changed or whatever, that when we're looking at alcohol sales, we actually get a copy of the map, you know, with the lines and um alcohol sales on both sides, and also have a police beat overlay.

So we have an understanding of who's saying what where uh until we can get more clear about what the police department can or cannot actually provide.

So that's just a suggestion before since we're gonna be seeing more of these, that would be helpful, I think, to the commission in order to kind of find our way through this.

Um that being said, I'm not wild about the extended hours of operation, but when I look at when I look at alcohol sales, um I'm always looking for where are the dead spots that nuisances can occur as a result of the off-sale uses.

And when I look at this site, the the site is the dead spot in this neighborhood.

It is a nuisance just by virtue of being empty.

Um I think the fact that uh it would be populated and uh you know the there's gonna be an administrative uh piece, there are manager on site.

Uh lots of lighting activity takes away from the nuisance in in terms of what that neighborhood is probably experiencing.

Hard to tell with a hundred pages of police statistics that we looked at and what they actually mean.

But that that's my sense is that um the reasoning that activating that building will actually uh decrease the nuisance uh in the area.

Um I'm a little torn on the uh extended hours again.

If there's it's populated, it's lit.

You know, I'm torn, so uh I'll listen to what other people say, but um I'm going to be in favor of this uh application to be able to make the findings and get my request on record for further the next time we have to review one of these.

Thank you.

Well, I am in agreement that activating this building is gonna help this neighborhood a lot.

But I do think um one of the dead spots is very nearby, and if the super chavez market closes at 9 p.m., people can go to this market by alcohol and go to the bike path behind the market and create a nuisance there.

And I'm so I am in favor of reducing the hours if that's possible.

Um I also asked a question about the neon lights because I did go to one of the MD markets um on Third Street in Fulton, and it looks for all the world like an alcohol store.

Uh it does have food products inside, but it's every window has a um neon light from a beer wine distributor.

So I think if you want to be a food store, that's great.

I'm glad to hear that there that you have a um uh relationship with uh the USDA and the SNAP program, because then that you're required to carry certain food products, and I think that's fabulous.

But um if you look like an alcohol store, it's gonna be worse for your business than then if you don't.

Um but otherwise I can I can support the application, but I would be in favor of reduced hours.

Thank you.

Commissioner Carter.

Yeah, my view is very similar to my um colleagues.

I generally support the application and staff's recommendation.

Uh I don't know that the additional hour has been thoroughly justified, so I would entertain reducing to the standard hours.

Uh I I would prefer not to do it at the expense of extending the application if we can do it here tonight.

That's be my preference.

Hugh Commissioner Horton.

Thank you.

Um yeah, I agree with a lot of what's been said, but I'm actually in favor of the extended hours.

And part of the rationale, I think for me, and in addition to what's Commissioner Sisko said and others, is you look at this in the context of our general plan and our kind of broader, you know, city and and regional goals.

You have the last smart train from the south coming in at 9.59 p.m.

And I'll tell you, as a you know, single 34-year-old guy, I could see myself getting off that train after a long day at work or events or whatever, going home to my apartment on coffee lane, and then at you know, 1050 I leave to go pick up some snacks or a drink or something.

And it'd be really nice to have that extended hour market there in the context of I think what we're trying to do, which is create this, you know, mixed use transit village with high density housing and a little more diversity of of uses and then walkability.

And so I think this is just the kind of thing that I'd like to see there.

And then I also think, I mean, I'm comfortable with I I agree that it'd be better to have better uh data about what the impacts of the alcohol would be.

But to the extent that we have what we have, the police are saying it's not a problem.

So if we're going into the realm of sort of speculation here, and I'm not I'm not saying that critically, but just to the extent that we're, you know, maybe drawing inferences.

Like I think the people who are gonna be drinking in the ditch off the bike path can get there before 11 p.m., right?

I don't think I I don't see that being the people who are negatively impacted by the shorter hours.

I think it really is the you know the person in the community who who's sort of living that slightly unconventional lifestyle, but who could benefit from this kind of more like again mixed use sort of later night lifestyle.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Um I am in favor of the project, but would like to see the hours reduced uh and whether they are uh put back to 11 or 10 or 9.

I think um I'd like to see 10 o'clock, but um I'm not sure what we can do.

I think it's 11.

I'm seeing nods.

Permitted by right is 11.

Okay.

Yeah.

So um my proposal would be that it uh the hours be from 6 to 11.

And yes.

Can you describe how onerous it is for an applicant if you do reduce the hours and if let's say over time with all the building, all the things that we've approved in the area, all the apartments get built and occupied, and there is more of a need for later hours.

How onerous is it to come back and have the hours revised?

So he would have to come back and reapply for another major conditional use permit.

Hold on one second.

I'm gonna check the uh the changes that you just recommended.

That may be down to a minor use permit.

Give me one moment.

Yeah, so actually the current um requirement is for a minor use permit.

So normally if this was just extended hours, it would be a minor years permit that would go to the zoning administrator.

It came before the commission because it was included as part of the major conditional use permit for the alcohol sales.

Um and as part of the proposal that um you recommended move forward to council earlier this this afternoon, um, it would be dropped down to a director level.

So again, it would still have a noticing um uh requirement and an ability for um moving it up to a public uh hearing if a neighbor requested that, but otherwise it would be at the director level.

Okay, so with that, um I my proposal is that it be six to eleven.

Uh so in order to do that, um we would need to modify the resolution um uh uh verbiage to strike the extended hours of operation language, and then also um there is um condition number.

Sorry.

There's a condition that specifies the hours as well, which I'm trying to find.

It is numbers.

Oh, we need to take a break to discuss if there are other areas of the resolution that need to be modified to address your I may be the only one that wants this.

So um I'd like to get a feel from the commission and Ms.

Crocker tell me if I'm doing something I shouldn't no, you guys can just have kind of an informal straw poll, but we will want to um have a discussion as to whether or not we'd have to have some findings of denial for extended hours and parse this out into two since it was two separate applications.

So it may not be just as easy as crossing something out.

Um so why don't you guys yeah have maybe kind of a straw poll discussion as to this extra one hour and um we'll discuss here while you do that as well.

So since it's just an extra hour, and I was I was thinking it would be more like the Chavez market, but it can't be.

So I'm thinking Yeah, I'm kind of in alignment with Mr.

Commissioner Horton.

Um so I would probably just go with the extended hour as it stands based on you know how he stated what we're trying to do, what we're trying to activate, and that it is close to the smart train.

So that's where I would stand.

Yeah, I I don't want to overwork this, and I think Commissioner Horton made some good points in the spirit of young new urbanism.

Uh and uh I could live with that extra hour with it's gonna be onerous to change things.

Okay.

I'm also in agreement.

Okay, so I withdraw.

And um so we've all said that we are supportive and can make the findings.

So I believe unless staff tells me otherwise, we have a vote.

Thank you, Chair.

Commissioner Carter.

Aye.

Commissioner Sisko.

Aye.

Commissioner Horton.

Aye.

Vice Chair Deggan.

Aye.

Chair Weeks.

Aye.

Let the record reflect that that passes with five eyes.

Six eyes, right?

Yeah.

Five.

Oh, there's oh, that's right, the other one left.

Sorry.

Uh okay.

Uh please note this action is final unless an appeal is filed with the city clerk's office within ten calendar days of today's decision.

And with that, I will go ahead and adjourn the planning commission meeting.