Behind here, so we better get caught up.

Uh Sarah challenged me to run the slowest meeting ever, said we would be here past 10 10 30.

So I'm gonna do my best to make Sarah happy and uh just kind of hang out for a little bit.

All right, welcome everybody uh to our special meeting of Thursday, December 18th, 2025.

Uh please join me for a flag salute.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

The assembly of the city and borough of Sitka would like to respectfully acknowledge the traditional first people of Sheetka.

With gratitude, we proceed on Clinketani.

Sarah, roll call, please.

Mayor Eisenbeis.

Present.

Mr.

Pike.

Here.

Ms.

Carlson.

Here.

Ms.

Riley.

Here.

Mr.

Christensen.

Here.

Mr.

Mosier?

Here.

And Mr.

Celine.

Thank you.

Any correspondence or agenda changes this evening?

See none that would bring us to persons to be heard.

This is public participation for any item off of tonight's agenda, not to exceed three minutes for any individual.

Seeing none, we will roll into our new business this evening.

Welcome, assembly to budget meeting one of yeah.

So we're getting uh started a little early this year.

And the reason being um this is a newer meeting that we as a as a body had talked about previously.

Um we often get deeper into the budget cycle and then wonder why rate increases are where they are or how capital projects got included.

And it's it's been stated in the past, and I've felt it too, that you get so far into the budget and everything's based around some of these capital projects that it's really really hard to undo it.

Um so, in an effort to um number one, I mean, we can control some rates through this capital project, but then that delays those potentially necessary projects out further.

Um, and then as an attempt to just get a grasp on where we might be, uh, we have this meeting tonight.

So we'll luckily uh Brooke will be able to take us through this because I look at a bunch of numbers and they all seem really really big and unobtainable.

Um it's a couple years out as well.

And I thank you for having a long-range capital plan.

It's very helpful and needed.

Uh but that's what we're here for tonight.

Um, as well as with all these budget meetings, we'll have a general wrap-up item.

So if the assembly has any comments relating to the budget at all, um that item will be on this meeting and every other budget meeting as we go forward.

So there's always an opportunity to comment on any part of it.

Um I'm sorry, fire chief.

This is not the time while I will comment on your full budget.

Uh so with that, uh, Brooke or John and then uh John and then Brooke.

Um, thank you guys for getting this started already.

I know it seems very early.

It is very early.

I hope you can wrap your heads around it because I barely can at this point.

But John, please.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh, as you've already noted, this is uh budget meeting number one, and uh we're gonna be learning as much through this as the assembly is.

This is the first time we've done this, so um, if this manner continues in future years, I I think it would uh get modified based on some feedback we received tonight.

Um, but if nothing else, if there's no changes to the to the sheets you see in front of you, and I know there's probably hard they're probably hard to understand right now.

Um, if nothing else, I think this is gonna be a good education system.

Uh Brooks put together quite the uh uh presentation for you all to see kind of how the budget and how the capital plan ties together.

Uh you already talked about the rates, and uh she can kind of walk us through.

I think there's a slide called the chicken or the egg, and uh and we'll we'll see how these this process works uh in tandem.

So um with that, I'll turn it over to Brooke to start the presentation.

Good evening, and welcome to the first official budget meeting for FY27.

Um, I did want to give everybody a warning that my slides are going to break all the rules on how much text you're supposed to have on a PowerPoint slide.

So just bear with me.

Um you don't have to read all of it, but then um the good thing about that is it it ends up being a good resource later if you want to use it.

So um I want to start this off uh by talking about how we are going, we meaning staff and assembly are gonna work together throughout the budget process.

So staff are responsible for preparing the budget, developing estimates, assessing risks, and making recommendations, and identifying funding options.

The assembly side is policy direction and legislative action, reviewing drafts, asking questions, and adopting changes through that legislative action.

So the distinction is important because ideas can be raised at any point, but budget changes occur through formal assembly action.

So mayor talked about this a little bit already, but why are we here?

It is early, and that is on purpose.

The goal tonight is to hear assembly priorities before staff finalize the capital program and the 27 draft budget.

We're looking to identify any policy direction that could affect how projects are prioritized or funded.

And we're also going to walk through the general capital budgeting process and talk a little bit about timing, cost changes, and why some projects move faster than others.

So first thing to start with, what is the capital improvement program?

The capital improvement program is a required component of the budget under charter.

And charter actually specifies certain elements that are required, including listing estimated costs, financing methods, unfinished projects, and deferred projects.

A combination of two different pieces of the budget packet actually fulfilled this requirement.

We list projects with current appropriations separately from the mid to long range CIP.

And when I was preparing for this, I actually realized there is no heading on top of the pages in the budget document that are for that list the appropriations.

So I am going to refer to that document as the approved capital appropriations listing.

So that's what it is, but there's no title in the packet.

So I will change that this year.

So the next piece of it is the mid to long range capital improvement program.

So the document that we call that very long mid to long range capital improvement plan provides information on needed projects, planned funding over six years, and projects that are unfunded or deferred.

Importantly, the document includes projects that may have some funding already, but need additional funding to be completed.

So that's why you may see the same project reference on the approved capital appropriations listing and on the mid to long range CIP.

The version that was included with your packet tonight of the mid to long range CIP was for illustrative purposes to support discussion at tonight's meeting.

The version that you'll see with the actual draft budget will start with FY28 and won't include a column for FY27.

So one of the most common questions that we get a lot throughout the year is why some projects show funding but very little visible progress.

So for large complex projects, funding is often appropriated over time, so it works kind of like a savings plan.

Design is typically the first phase, especially of our larger projects, and completing design gives us more accurate cost estimates before construction.

As estimates evolve, initial appropriations may no longer be sufficient, which is when staff have to reassess scope, phasing, or funding options.

Some funds also end up being set aside as potential grant match, and they remain unspent while grants are being pursued.

Other things that end up impacting capital project timing are capacity and market conditions.

So large projects absorb a lot of staff time and they slow progress on other projects.

So the airport terminal improvements project is a perfect example of this.

It's a very large-scale project for us to execute, and it pulls a lot of staff from other projects that you know several years ago we might have thought we would have finished by now.

Vacancies and turnover can also affect planning, design, and delivery.

It you know, it takes a while.

The city is very complicated, and and it takes staff time to learn their jobs.

So if you have a lot of people starting over, it can take them quite a while to catch up.

Um grant awards can also require staff to reprioritize the uh work once timelines are established.

And procurements above certain thresholds follow very structured processes, and and sometimes we end up receiving few or no responsive bids when we do try to start those projects.

And so even when staff follow all of the required procedures, procurement efforts don't always result in responsive bids.

This is one of the bad ones as far as amount of text.

Sorry.

Um, one of the internal tools we use for the capital program is a fiscal model.

So every single enterprise fund has one.

We use these fiscal models to connect capital needs, operating costs, and funding options over time.

So the models incorporate assumptions about service levels, about capital timing and funding sources like rates, grants, reserves, and debt.

Um they're used to evaluate long-term sustainability and trade-offs, and to help inform staff recommendations, including the recommendations you'll end up seeing on rate changes.

And the models that we have do look out generally about 20 years.

I mean, you the further out the go they go, the less accurate they are, but that's as far as those look.

And going right into rate changes, the primary driver of rate changes is the cost of maintaining and replacing infrastructure.

So staff work to reduce rate impacts through maintenance and outside funding where possible.

Um, but it is important to know that when rate changes are deferred or reduced, the trade-offs often show up in capital timing or increased reliance on working capital.

And if working capital is consistently depleted without replenishment, it can reduce financial resilience and affect the long-term health of the fund.

So it's important to note that for funds with debt, also working capital supports required financial ratios that we have to have.

There's my fund slide, I guess.

That's a chicken.

Yeah.

I learned something.

There wasn't a good egg graphic.

I'm sure that's hard to believe.

Um, okay.

So this slide summarizes the balancing act we're always working through.

Uh fiscal models and the capital program are really closely linked.

So capital needs inform our rate discussions and available funding determines what capital work can actually move forward.

So for the next couple of slides, you're actually gonna get a break from me because I'm gonna call up our public works director, Mark Sevy, to talk about um risk assessment and cost estimates.

Good evening, Assembly Mark CV Public Works Director.

So you've probably over the last couple of years heard us a lot talk a lot about asset management and using risk as a tool for assessing where we make decisions and how we make decisions.

Uh so for the projects, uh mainly the electricity director Ron Vinson and I have been working on creating a merged capital improvement plan list that Alec that has all of our combined projects broken down by fund.

And then we try to risk score those projects as we rescore the project, we go through it's it's somewhat qualitative, it's not entirely just a quantitative assessment.

So it is not the end all be all, it's one of the tools that we're using.

And we start with essentially a likelihood of failure, and we break that down with a chart basically looking at is it likely to fail in the 100 years, 50 years, 30 years, 20, 10, 5, 1, or is it gonna occur more than 10 times in a year?

We then multiply that likelihood of failure against a number of factors.

We go through public safety, personnel safety, compliance, reliability, reputation, and financial impact.

So on our likelihood of failure scale, we essentially go from one through eight, and then the other scales cap at seven, but not every criteria will go to a seven.

So public safety is the one that goes all the way to a seven, and financial goes all the way to a seven, and those are essentially looking at uh something that could cause multiple fatalities or over 10 billion in financial cost to the city.

Uh every other category is from one up to six.

Um personnel safety goes to six, and then compliance reliability and reputation all go to five or reliability that goes to a four, and that's captive our inability to maintain the assets.

So that's kind of how we weight those criteria.

So when you multiply the likelihood of failure, you're gonna end up with the highest score of a 56.

So when we presented our merged CIP list in the past, it caps it 56.

Can I jump in really quick?

Um this scoring method that we use too.

I'm like I said on the radio this morning, I'm gonna take any opportunity I can to talk about asset management.

Um but this scoring method that we use in this matrix is um it really is an internacional industry standard.

Um I don't know if anybody's heard of the ISO manuals.

Um it's hopefully I get it right, Ron.

ISO 30,000 is the risk management manual.

31,000 is the risk management manual, and ISO 55,000 is the uh asset management manual.

So we're using the um the standards out of there and in building these scores and uh building that risk matrix.

And then as we evaluate instances that happen around or near on our infrastructure, we're also trying to correlate how well that is a function of the condition of it as well.

Um a fatality on a street may not have to do with the condition of the street, or it may moving into the cost estimates.

So as we start with a project, especially our large scale, a lot of those initial cost estimates for a complete project are a rough order of magnitude.

So there is an association, uh, an international association for the advancement of applied uh cost estimation, and we use that as one of the tools, but we start with essentially a rough order of magnitude.

So that rough order of magnitude could be baseline from experience, other costs in the area, but it's not detailed down to a specific scope of work.

From there, you're usually looking at up to a plus 75% and maybe down 25%.

More often than not here in SICA, we're looking at that plus 75% as a baseline because living on the island with the logistics of getting materials availability of contractors, we're we're starting there and hoping to come in underneath that.

Uh if it's not large scale and we can get a more specific quote, then we may have a general idea.

But if we're not going to be able to fund the project entirely, then we're gonna look at inflation.

Lately, we've been looking at about 15% per year as a safe guideline for if we're planning for a project of the five years out, we're gonna take that estimate and increase it by 15%.

That can also be impacted by tariffs, uh, any new federal mandates on where materials need to be sourced from, uh, and then economic impacts as availability of contractors, what construction can actually be done, how it changes.

Ideally, once we get that estimate, about 10 to 20 percent of that is usually your design phase.

So once we can get a design, usually you run from about 15%, which is your conceptual design, to 35, 65, and 95.

And it's not really until after that 65 percent that you have a greater detail of what's going to happen, and at the 95, you're generally looking at a plan that's gonna be issued for construction.

If we were to have something like that, once you have that, you can break it down into essentially a worksheet schedule.

From that point, you're looking at cost of materials, labor hours, what's going to be required, and that's where you really fine-tune a budget for a project.

But we're generally not gonna get to that point at this early phase if it's a new project.

So once we have those established, that allows us to refine the budget, and then the biggest thing that's gonna detract from that budget from that point on is any kind of scope creep.

Thanks, Mark.

So um one important thing to note there is that our you know, our largest, most expensive projects that we do have to accumulate funding for over you know a period of years are the most get at risk of being impacted by inflation.

And so and the assembly's seen that before, and I'm sure they'll see it again.

But that's when you'll end up seeing capital projects that you know everybody thought was already funded, have additional requests for funding.

So the next thing we're gonna talk about is um what our approved capital appropriation listing tells us.

So this listing includes projects with approval and contingent approval.

Um approved capital appropriations include projects that have been authorized through the annual budget or through supplemental appropriations.

That approval gives staff the ability to move a project forward, but it does not always mean that the project's ready for immediate construction.

So projects that you see on this listing may be in a design or pre-construction phase.

They may be phased over multiple years, have appropriations set aside as potential match for grants we're pursuing, or be pending updated cost estimates.

So this is not what it looks like where you're used to seeing it because it's it's usually separated by fund, but this is a summarized view of the capital appropriations approved through the adopted FY 2026 budget.

So you can see the same thing in that packet if you want to, then uh broken down by fund.

It reflects cumulative approvals across many years and many project stages.

So these totals don't actually represent available cash or project progress.

The best way to see how much funding is actually left on each of our projects is by reviewing the interim financial statements.

So we generally talk about two main sources when uh funding sources when discussing capital capacity.

So our undesignated working capital is more flexible, but um it also supports day-to-day operations and emergencies, whereas the public infrastructure sinking fund is restricted by code for governmental infrastructure purposes.

So this slide shows a snapshot of undesignated working capital by fund based on the interim FY 2025 financial statements.

Uh this is again summarized, but you can find this exact information on each of the balance sheets in the interim financial statements.

Uh these balances do not reflect any FY 2020 supplementals or other post adoption changes.

Some funds do show a negative balance due to timing differences.

Um, so that typically means costs have been incurred before related funding is received.

So with something especially like the airport fund, there's often fairly significant delays between when we are actually spending money and then getting reimbursed for those pieces.

Then we get to the public infrastructure sinking fund, um, and this fund is restricted by municipal code for the repair and replacement of general fund infrastructure, things like buildings, streets, sidewalks, parking lots, and parks.

The way the money gets into that fund is through an annual transfer from the general fund at the end of the fiscal year.

That transfer amount is calculated using criteria established in code.

Um it comes forward to the assembly in September of each year as a recommendation from the administrator.

Annual use of the fund is recommended by staff through the budget process, and um assembly adoption of the budget is what provides us with that approval.

For context, uh $3.2 million was transferred into the public infrastructure sinking fund in FY25, and the current fund balance is a little bit over $4 million.

That's good.

So this presentation represents the starting point of the capital planning process.

Um additional information and refinements will be developed by staff and brought forward over the couple of the coming months.

Uh several people have already made comments about this, but this is super early.

So it it's it's too early for most of our budget draft pieces to be developed.

Um, and so it's it's a good time to have these preliminary conversations.

Next month, the assembly will be presented with the resource proposal forms from staff.

Um it is also important to note that the cost estimates for unfunded or deferred projects that you see on that uh mid to long range capital improvement program, um, they're preliminary and they get updated as projects are reviewed and prioritized.

We did our best for this meeting to make sure that the most uh you know pressing ones were updated, but there are plenty with uh pretty old estimates on there.

Um, and some final notes.

You've made it to the end of my presentation, just a couple of other things.

So if the assembly takes no action tonight, staff will continue developing the capital plan as part of the draft budget based on all the tools that I talked about tonight.

Um, this meeting again is just a start of the process, and there will be multiple opportunities for assembly input and legislative action throughout the budget process.

This exact conversation is not.

So I think it is very valuable.

There's definitely a lot of numbers, and it like I said, it is very early in this process.

And tonight, assembly, we can be a little bit more free-flowing.

Um, just if we have questions, comments, let's not interrupt each other.

But uh if we have stuff, let's please have a conversation about this.

Katie.

Um thank you.

I was just wondering, I know that the assembly put away a big chunk that 3.2 million, I think, in the public's sinking infrastructure fund.

So there was only like 800,000 in it.

How much was it spent down or what does it usually sit at?

Because I remember that being quite a large number that was put in it.

Like how much was spent in the last year.

I have those, I just have to dig them out of my folder.

So for FY25, the transfer to the general fund from the public infrastructure sinking fund was um three million nine hundred and seventy-eight thousand.

That was twenty-five for twenty six that I did not grab from the printer, but I can pull up on my computer.

That's great.

Um, I believe it was pretty comparable.

It was between three and a half and four million dollars for 26 as well.

So we spend like almost that much every year out of the like give or take uh $800,000.

Not every single year.

The last couple of years we have it has built up before, but I think um in this six or seven years I was looking at it, I think the most I saw it get to was about eight or nine million, and I think part of that had to do actually with COVID.

I think there was um some budget changes during that period that meant that less money was being appropriated for capital projects.

Thank you.

Uh Brooke, I do have a question for you.

Um, we see a lot of the costs on this side, um, but have you been able to estimate rate increases for each fund yet?

Um we have the costs, but we don't see that side of it.

No, not yet.

So we'll, you know, our staff deadline for their operating budgets.

Um, we just are hitting that tomorrow, I believe, if I remember my own deadlines.

Um, so we'll use that as well as the information that comes from those resource proposals.

Part of what comes through the resource proposals is actually small capital projects as well.

So we have to take those into account when I look at updating the the fiscal models and and kind of generate those.

Okay, that makes sense.

Um, and then like this one's kind of presented as assembly if you want to change capital projects in order to affect rates.

Here's here's what you need.

Uh, if we did the a reverse process and I said electric department gets no more than a three percent uh in rate increase this year, can you go back and then change all of this with that high guidance?

Yes, I can.

So that might be an easier way for us if we don't have an appetite for the rate increases because I can't prioritize um with the risk matrix and everything.

I think that's not my purview, right?

But I think I could set what I feel a public appetite for a rate increase would be, also understanding that anything less than recommended by department heads is gonna put us in a more deferred maintenance type situation.

Mr.

Mayor, I just I just wanted to um confirm what you you're saying.

I I feel like the public would really like a break this year.

We've been going, you know, percent good percentage creases for several years now, and uh I'm not saying we do this permanently, but this year I would like to see a lower rate increase if possible.

Yeah, I think we're in year three, the last year of the kind of three-year planned one.

Um so I agree the community would would like to see that it is on our strategic plan as well.

Um, but there was um some important decisions that were were done to set ourselves up for some of these high risk, high-risk items.

To set all ourselves up for some of these high risk, high risk items.

So I wouldn't want to see all that work go to the wayside either.

Is add to that reputation column.

I mean, we're we don't really know the personal safety and compliance reliability aspects of stuff, but reputation.

What what is it like to have you know our Lincoln Streets not meet ADA?

Um what is it like for you know people to be tripping on a curbs in our central business district?

Um you know, Cat Leanne, I think in that column four is the highest.

Is that correct for reputation?

Okay.

I think five.

Five, okay.

I think we could do some helpful work there in that risk score.

The other questions I have.

Um I don't know, Brooke, if you're someone else knows more, but what's the I guess flavor of a maintenance project versus capital?

What's the distinction there?

How is that decided?

So something that's a capital project would add life to an asset.

Um for maintenance, what you're doing is making sure that that asset can last as long as it was supposed to in the first place.

Does that make sense?

So I believe adding sand to a ball field was maintenance.

Okay.

But it wouldn't extend the life of the flat ground.

Items that improve that are like land improvements are the ugly even for accountants.

It's a little bit harder to talk about what makes land last longer, but yes, technically that's that sand we do not consider to make the field itself last longer, just get it toward the end of its life.

But what is the end of a field's life?

I don't know.

I guess it if the idea of setting a set rate increase, I think we should be a little careful there.

Uh it sounds nice, but I think we need to look at what that means before we say that.

I mean it's okay to say that is our target, but we could be cutting something that means that the lights turn off if that you know that becomes much less reliable.

I mean, I'm not using that is not probably not a very good example, but we need to make sure that we're not being penny wise and pound foolish there.

Um the uh you know, and and I guess it also makes a difference as to what enterprise fund we're talking about.

Because what was our was it last year that we didn't have an electric much of an electric rate hit or increase?

It was a year before, I think.

It was smaller, there was a rate increase last year, but it was it was a very small one though, right?

Yeah, um but other funds are in much more need.

So to say we're gonna restrict everything to three percent is dangerous because some funds are in the negative and we don't have that buffer, and others do.

So I can see that saying that as a target, but we can't you know, not without transferring money from the general fund to some of these enterprise funds, and maybe that's what we decided we want to do.

But uh and but I I I think we want to be careful to look at what we're actually doing before you know, and just say three percent only is not safe.

That's not what I'm saying.

I don't think that's what the mayor was saying.

Uh that's why we're asking them uh if we ask them to look into it.

Um I think they can come back and bring us some options.

I don't think anyone wants to you know have things falling apart or what have you.

Um I would personally would just like to see uh less of increases.

I know that I'd like to see them less across the board, but I understand I am aware that uh other the funds besides just the electric are low.

So um I know it's trying hard to find that balance.

Um yeah, because something someone mentioned to me too, we've been doing rate increase by increase that we you know, you take 100 hours, five percent a hundred hours, and next year it's five percent of that one, and that one and that one compounds.

Um and so I I do want them to look at it.

I would like to see if they can look at it and find out if we can do that.

Um we have been increasing um over the past several years, seven, eight years for quite quite a bit, and for a good reason, but I think it's not gonna hurt to look at it, see what we can do.

Yeah, I can agree with that, Kevin.

I think we've been very generous um on our rate increases for the fund itself.

Um and I think this time I'm 51% on tightening that and 49% on making sure the funds continue to be solvent as is, right?

So my thought would be, you know, let's maybe you're not gonna have quite as much this year.

You know, if if we can go from a six to a five, it would be much appreciated.

And if we could articulate that we started out needing an eight, but we got it down to a six, I think that can help the process along a lot too.

Um because if we're simply presented with a five not knowing where we started at, that still seems great, but if the request and the need was a ten percent, um we can say that there was work to get it down.

Um yeah, I definitely don't want to cork capital plans either.

Um I want my toilet, uh I want the sewer to go away when I flush the toilet.

Um, but I agree, Kevin, it's they're cumulative.

Um and they you know it's it's kind of like when you invest in in the stock market for years and years and years, and all of a sudden you have a big big amount of money.

Well, that's what our utility bills are right now.

John?

Uh thanks, Mayor.

I I think that's this is great conversation.

I think everybody's seeing how these two things are linked so closely together.

Um I hear you loud and clear with you know, if if we can take breaks on on the uh rate increases, absolutely.

Um and I think um getting the knowledge out there, the information out there for everyone to understand that sometimes it is an inevitability, right?

We we have to we have to keep the the infrastructure alive.

Um and if there is a uh a scale back in one year and a bump up the next year, uh, as long as there's some way that we're we're tracking along with what normal inflationary costs look like.

Um, you know, I always hate to look in the past, right?

And I don't want it to come across the wrong way, but you know, we've seen the effects, and other communities have seen the effects too.

I think uh everybody probably saw the news from Ketchukan about six months ago, and they were very large double digit uh rate increases in their utility.

Um and it's because if you if you keep them low for so long or or not make adjustments to them for so long, and I know I've probably drawn this graph for most of you if you've been in my office, if you keep them long for so or low for so long, and then the the cost of maintaining it keeps going up.

If you're not tracking along that line, you create that void there, and that void is all that lost revenue, which equals deferred maintenance, and that deferred maintenance will eventually get to that point where the infrastructure fails.

So you're you're weighing that risk of do I want to run it to failure and assume that that cost is gonna be lower than what it would have been if we had uh you know maintained it throughout that period of time.

So it just it's good conversation for everybody to hear that balance that we're trying to maintain.

John, were you ever able to tell that to Valerie?

We've discussed it before I think John, what you're saying is I think we all understand everyone on here the rates you know have in SICA were very low for quite a long period of time, and uh I'm not blaming anyone in the past past assembly because you just don't know, you know.

But um, but now because of of the us having to catch up and then with all the inflation all these years, that's why we're we're trying to do this.

I'm just hoping to balance a little bit and give people a break, but I understand.

I understand uh we need to be careful with this.

Brooke, you had something to add.

There is one thing I kind of want to um talk about up front.

Um for wastewater, we have a regulatory compliance um related project that we are gonna we are required to do.

Um it's a very, very expensive project.

Um we are attempting to get grant funding for that uh project, but it does require a match, and so uh wastewater is is a fund that would be significantly impacted by uh foregoing a rate increase because we we do have a timeline that we have to get that project completed by and is that listed here uh as yes, it's under wastewater, it's called effluent disinfection.

Okay, so we fund or we will be funding in this upcoming year um 2.6 million if we if the congressionally directed um what is it spending um authorization comes through.

Okay.

Okay.

So that's the bulk of what we're looking to do, and that's perhaps why there's no money in that Cat Lee Ann Street one.

Yes, that ended up bumping pretty much everything else.

Yeah, which is unfortunate because if we look here at that risk score, it's it 56 is a perfect score for not goodness.

Um it's not good in water wastewater or the general fund um portion.

So if I were to make one comment tonight, I said we find a way to even just put fifty thousand dollars aside um for that Cat Lee Ann Road project be as yeah, uh in Lincoln Street too.

Um some bit of money there, and we had a special meeting about that over the summer.

Um I don't remember the exact direction we gave, but it it was an important project, and I want us to remember that once we come to the money side of that this year.

Um is there a opportunity to include GPIP in this mid-to-long range capital improvement plan?

Yes, that would be it's a newer thing, so we that there's not been you know, we haven't made a hundred percent of the updates yet for GPIP, but it needs its own piece now.

It is, yes.

And what about making other things that are ongoing out there?

The seaplane base.

Um I know we're trying to grant funding, but there's probably gonna be a match.

Is that airport fund enterprise?

Okay.

Okay.

So seeing seeing that listed here would be helpful.

But I think what airport was one of the ones you hadn't gotten to yet.

So will that pop up on on this list?

So um the airport does not have any designated working capital, like but with this terminal improvement um project, it has wiped out all of that funds.

Money would take a while to build up on its own.

Um the seaplane base is in the design phase.

I know that they are working on applying for um further grant funding.

There will end up being match that we'll end up having to talk about.

Okay, not tonight, but once we have more information about what that looks like.

And at this early stage, it's a good opportunity to say, okay, now we're we're bringing on this new assets.

Uh it's gonna be triple the size of our existing facility if I recall, um, and yet we get a hundred dollars a month from a person to park a plane in a city facility.

Um so we wouldn't the operational side is not what we're speaking about tonight, but that does have to come into play once we do these capital projects, like how are we going to sustain it?

Um it's a lesson, you know, we're learning from the airport, so to be able to apply it so quickly to its cousin.

Um yeah, I don't think a hundred dollars a month is enough.

Oh go ahead.

Uh the the public works projects and those 56 scores, like so you've got the unfunded mandate, very expensive doing that 2.6 million.

Is that what the cost of it is or is it more?

That's the match.

Okay.

And then why does Lake Hearst and Monastery Kinkiade rank like higher in funding?

Why is it funded over these ones of more need as well as the ones below it?

Good evening again.

Mark CB5 works director.

Uh so specifically with those projects, my understanding is that prior to my arrival at some point that there were multiple fatalities on Cat Leanne, and that is why it is scored at a 56, because that puts the it it happened, so the likelihood it did happen, and at the multiple puts it at the eight.

So we hit 56 is the highest score.

I have not changed those because I don't want to say that the past did not happen, but I think as we reevaluate, we need to look at whether or not the condition of the road was a direct causal factor in those.

And um I don't know that it is, so I haven't changed it.

But that being said, we had Lake Hirsch Monastery Kincaid as a previously funded project, it's one that was brought forward.

We put it out to bid.

We did not have sufficient funds.

So we are in the process of awarding a phase one for that project.

And while we have contractors mobilized, I'd like to get the phase two portion of that completed since we're already working in that area.

One of the critical parts of that project is the monastery and Kincaid portion.

We've had a lot of failures for the water lines on the monastery side.

The phasing of the project, since it's a gravity sewer for a lot of that, we need to set the lake lower side first.

So as we're setting that side, we're we're phasing the project in the way that it should be.

So those also have significant portions of the budget already allocated.

We're just trying to top it up to the final so that they can be executed.

So the choice is like actually executing something over.

Trying to execute a project, or do we put a small amount aside towards a project that we know is multiple years out?

That you won't be able to complete.

Right.

So if we look at the the current Catleyan project, the estimate is around I want to say 16 million.

So for everything for everything.

So you're breaking down into general fund water and wastewater.

And we have, if I remember, maybe around six in that project.

And when you look at Link Lincoln Street, um our estimate for that one is about 15.5, and I believe we we have a about 10 million in that one.

If I'm remembering a number, so I think on Lincoln Street, we're at a point now where we could if we want to go forward with a design that we're gonna we can move forward with the design.

We have the funding allocated to do that.

I think Catley Ann we're not quite there.

Um we've heard previously that Lincoln Street is a priority, we don't want to ignore that.

So the plan right now is to put out an RFQ using the safe streets for all grant that's going to essentially look at our downtown quarter, and we're gonna try and prior prioritize that happening first for all multimodal kinds of transportation, and that can help drive the decision making.

But if we get that process started, then we can focus on downtown.

Hopefully, start putting them the rest of the funding away, get a better rough water magnitude for Lincoln Street, execute that project first, and then continue to put funding away to execute the Cat Leanne, recognizing that if we're going to change anything with Lincoln Street.

If I've heard discussions of potential portions being one way or Changin Street or one way, if we do that, that's going to change the traffic impacts on Catlean.

It's going to change the traffic impacts at harbor.

So we'd like to comprehensively look at that whole downtown corridor using that grant, and then prioritize the Lincoln State project and then move into the Catlean project.

Okay, thank you.

Um I you may have said this before, but um can you please just you don't have to go long, but kind of briefly encapsulate that the effluent system thing that's we're gonna be we're so required by the feds.

This is a funded mandate for additional disinfection of the effluent before it is basically released back into the ocean.

Uh that is a condition of our new permit.

We have a waiver to gain compliance with that permit by the fall of 2030.

So we've already put funding into the project to work through the first initial phases of design, looked at potential options to gain compliance, selected one of those options, selected a method of not building a brand new facility but adding on to our wastewater treatment plant with the disinfection portion.

And we're now we put in for the congressionally delegated spending item, and we we've got a rough order of magnitude for the cost of that.

So that 2.6 million that C in there is what we would have to appropriate if if we got a fully funded federal budget and that line item is approved and we get the CDS request, we would need to be able to come up with that match funding.

Okay, so this is just it's technically hasn't been needed for years just something the government said we have to do, and so we're doing it.

Yes, this is this is a new unfunded federal requirement.

Yeah, and Kevin, we've been um fighting is not the correct word, but when me and John go back to DC, this is always it's been a huge point of us talking to them for quite some time.

We've actually delayed it for a significant amount of time already, and we're one of the few communities still operating under this waiver.

So thank you.

Yeah, we we did our best.

Um, but we finally hit the end of the road where I don't think it's worth going round and round anymore.

Yeah, I understand.

It's just hard.

Um maybe for the people in the public who are listening, this is just one of those things we we can't not do it.

This is just one of those things we we can't not do it.

So I do appreciate you and John and whatever else staff trying to extend that, give us a little more time.

Thank you.

For my own deal for like uh in 2004, I think we had two years of the collaboration working over stuff in the community here, met once a month, and one of those things were that what we pump out of our wastewater is 26,000 times more dirty than what cruise ships pump out.

And so now in 2025 with this device, you got any idea how much closer we'll be to what you know cleaned up effluent goes out in comparison to what it's been and this waiver that we utilize.

I don't have the exact numbers, but I can look at getting some the actual permit requirements if there's a a new listed requirement for the disinfection as it's pumped out.

Because back in the day, that's where we were really worried about an oyster farm going into Whiting Harbor, and then we watch the DEC give those guys the okay, and then they lost their life savings trying to make it work from stuff swimming around out there.

And essentially it we're gonna be doubling the the chlorination of the treatment for our wastewater going through.

It's it's kind of a post-treatment now, and we'll have treatment on both sides as it comes through the plant.

Scotty, my understanding in layman's terms, the the water we're gonna be pumping into the ocean will be cleaner than the ocean itself.

So that's that's the new standard.

Which is like concerning a harbor.

Is that right that it should be like that?

Um I'm wondering uh what collaboration with the tribe has looked like in the past on any capital improvement projects and if there is an opportunity there.

Um just don't have a great understanding of it, but they have a roads inventory.

Um tribal transportation is usually a significant source of funding for many tribes, and so I'm wondering what uh communication between our two governments looks like and if there has been any overlap considering that you know one of the the things you look at is like grants and timing and stuff.

Um has to have discussions with them happened, uh, and has that impacted the um progress or viability of any project at any given time in the past or uh in the future.

I can't speak to all the history.

In my time, I've only attended one of the transportation meetings with the STA's transportation liaison, and then they they had left.

Um we did meet, I believe it was earlier this week.

I can't remember when that meeting was.

Um and I I do have a point of contact that I'm gonna be reaching out to for the Kirkman project.

Kirkman Way is it's kind of listed as a road, but it's not really a road, it's an easement that is used as access to get to some properties that don't have any other access, and that's one of the projects we have in here is to work on the water and the storm water coming through that.

So we'll be reaching out to the tribe to coordinate on that project.

And so just today at lunch at the scene right here at the senior thing, tribal people told me that they want to splice in to the expense at Kirkman Way by exploring grants that they feel that they can get to.

And Ms.

Guz Guthrie is the person I was directed to to try to find to get us together.

So I was gonna try to make that happen with the communication to try to coincide with their opportunities and try because Kirkman Way really leads to the education of the institution of whatever, you know, discrimination discrimination against clinkett properties at this.

You know, the reason that they started all these restricted deeds is from the city of Sitka ripping off the clink at people, not from what federal did around.

So that easement that comes down.

I have pictures of that day that Pax and Manor closed access that used to be a road that paralleled like the road that Elps is on, you know, it used to come right down there, and that's why that easement never got squared away because people were gonna lose what property they have, and then it became a no man's land, and one of the houses there still has 1940 water bringing it to it as a result of discrepancies.

So I really applaud you for even saying it on the air that you guys are going to Kirkman way because it it needs it bad.

Thank you.

Teb uh help answer your question.

Yes, we have um regular sessions um with STA.

Um I think they're monthly, yeah.

Um I know we have a quarterly one where uh the mayor and tribal chair and I'm in there also with the uh STA CEO.

Um, but our monthly meetings is typically us, the transportation group, um Bihas there, um the economic development director from the tribe is in there, and we discuss things just like that.

What grants are out there, what projects need to happen on the transportation front, things on infrastructure, and if there are areas where we can share notes and collaborate, we take advantage of them.

Just in terms of if we're prior given priorities, uh, that's the appropriate thing to do here.

I would love to lean into that.

Um I know that that's happening, and that's that's great to hear.

Um, but that definitely uh I would love to see it continue.

I'd love to see it be strengthened and do what we can do there to um increase communications and collaboration.

Uh, I think there's a lot of shared opportunity, especially as they're considering some pretty significant uh infrastructure developments on Siganaka and umwhile.

It might mainly be on Siganaka that they're doing the transportation facility.

Um, but also the planning for the uh natural resources build out.

So just as much as we can work together there, I think that could benefit our community and hopefully Catleanne Street as well.

Yeah, on that topic, uh Safe Streets for All, it maybe has like an advisory board or advisory group um possibility.

It's been an unfunded mandate, um, a legislative priority from the tribe to the city to be in um involved in the planning for Lincoln Street and Catley Ann.

I think the having them participate in some capacity in that grant funded planning program of Safety Streets for All would be a good way to kind of achieve all of those things if possible.

Um with the new strategic plan item of you know, when we let's just touch something once.

Um thank you for aligning the lift station on Lincoln Street with the Lincoln Street paving project.

Um that just makes sense uh if we're going to be addressing it.

Let's just do it there.

Um it is a very prominent location.

Um right there in the corner.

Is there an opportunity to put it underground or wrap it with something nice, use some visitor money to make it not just be rocks on the outside.

What were you uh I'm referencing?

I couldn't hear it.

Corner here, uh Lake and Lincoln, the building right next to the bathrooms.

Oh, okay, got it.

I used to know if I could have stuff inside of it that moves our wastewater along.

Um, but it's a very prominent location.

And if there's some opportunity there to use some visitor money to make the outside.

Let's do a gum wall.

I'll start it.

Hey.

Some cities have designated graffiti areas, so don't touch any of this.

You can have this space.

I really appreciate all of this.

The more that I look at it, um, the more just have gratitude towards the foresight that John had to hire an acid asset manager and build out this program because we're just at a place and in time where we we built a lot of things 40 years ago, and and here we are needing to address it.

Um perhaps not with the envisioned you know partnership um with the states uh at the time of of the original construction.

So we um need to do it kind of on our own two feet.

I'm in many ways.

Um speaking of partnership with the state, uh, we the city-state building.

Um it's represented here, um, but there's there's just a lot um going on there, and uh potentially you know, losing one of the larger tenants in that in that building from the state side.

Um it's just something we need to track and know that it might fully become ours in the near future.

And a challenge has been figuring out the um well, are they gonna split this cost?

How does this work from their their side?

Uh is there any ongoing conversations with the state on if they wish to maintain occupancy.

There's been some one-way conversations.

I think they're mostly coming from my side.

No, you're you're right.

That is uh that building is a challenge, and that one uh comes up a lot when we look at funding the projects we need to do, and if we keep pushing funding over there and not putting it to other things without the certainty that the state is going to work with us on um getting those projects across the finish line every year.

We're wondering whether or not we should forward fund.

So I will say the attempts at conversations have been happening.

Thank you.

And that's what we can do.

Um the now liaison to the Ports and Harbor Commission.

And um discussion recently um about plan B.

Now that that port wall, um, the bulkhead wall there by the Marine Services Center, um, and there the the dock where um the smaller cruise ships park um is no longer going to be replaced.

And I think I saw in the interim financial um statement, some moving a money around to do anodes and do other things to extend its life.

Uh but is there hopes or thoughts of what is going to be next there because the port and harbor commission um had some ideas of some short-term strategies to I wouldn't say that that confidently the port wall is not going to be redone.

It it is true that the we returned the RAISE grant um for uh a multitude of reasons.

One is the project cost went very high.

Um we tried to put it out to bid with a cap, not didn't get any responses.

We were running out of time on the grant.

Um we also had to wait a period of time to get those basically a formal uh removal from the program because we were holding on to some match money and then you know, planning on what the future looks like, needing that match money to do uh a more robust plan.

Um we're still having conversations on okay, what do we what do we want to do with this now?

Knowing that we have some choices we could rescope it, come up with better cost estimates, go back and ask for another.

I think they're build grants now, they're not raise anymore.

We've gone to Tiger to build to raise to back to build.

Um but there is also the option of trying again with new numbers, which will raise the the match amount.

Um so we have to be very careful on what we're going to do with it, but there are some preventative maintenance things we can do that maybe extend the life a little bit.

Um I hate to say it because I don't want it to go out in the news the wrong way, but uh it was what six years ago, I think it came before the assembly on a sell versus um rehab decision on the Marine Service Center.

Um I I wouldn't say that that's completely off the table either.

Um, part of the reason with getting that that raise grant at the time was we'll put some money into it, we'll keep it as this community asset.

Um, but we have to look at what is what is possible to see what the future of that building looks like.

Yes, and that is one of our healthier of funds at the moment.

Um and that leads me into this next topic is that the match, I believe, for the race grant came from both harbors and marine service services, um, but it seems like the maintenance stuff that's going in is just coming from harbors.

So is there an opportunity to access some of the marine services funds money to kind of do some of the shorter term strategies there on the wall to keep it trugging along until we can do that replacement?

I'd also just like to highlight on that if there are any opportunities to collaborate with local entities to source funding to support that project, which I believe there may be.

Um that should be a priority to explore before we uh explore selling it.

So quick question.

So I've been going down the list, and most of these are either self-explanatory or comp so far out of my wheelhouse I have no idea, and I'll have to trust you.

Um but there's uh I mean, well, I mean they make sense.

I mean, it they can tell.

And you know, things like power pole replacement and standby generators.

But what's a space utilization improvement for half a million?

That just struck me as like that.

I mean, the rest of them I just did that, I just don't know what it means.

Uh and which fund are you talking about?

So the electrical department, okay.

Uh page page or little page electric big page electric.

500K about direct tight towards the bottom of the page.

Okay, thank you.

I just everything else like, okay, makes sense makes sense.

What the hell is that?

Uh good evening, my name is Ron Vince.

I'm the electric utility director.

Uh that project specifically is supposed to be $30,000.

I I don't there must have been a typo or a mistake.

Uh it it is in our long-term plan that we provided last year, the the big spreadsheet.

Um that project is specifically guided towards or focused on um evaluating all of the the parking spaces that we have, the garage, the shop, uh the office spaces, and making sure that we can uh kind of reorganize that in a way to better utilize it.

Um there's been some talk in years past.

In fact, one of the old capital plans had um a plan, it was it was pretty significantly uh expensive.

It was several million dollars to build a new shop to store uh some of the expensive equipment that we have.

Um this would basically bring in somebody to help us figure out how to better utilize the space that we have before we go and spend several million dollars on a new on a new shop.

I I believe it's thirty thousand dollars is supposed to be the corrected value on that.

That changes yours pretty dramatically.

Yeah.

Sorry, yeah, it does.

I believe there's those uh rows must have gotten shifted off or something.

Um to to air as human, but to really screw up you need a computer.

Um but uh okay.

So that um wow, I just saved half a million bucks on the badge.

You got that being you guys.

Well, we saved a bunch of money, thanks, Tor.

We're done here.

Let's go home.

I just gotta say this because it kind of applies to the other night when I was about when it said the airport was used with the panels that built the marine service center, and then I look at the 2028, and they're gonna be doing a whole building envelope again for a bunch a bunch of money.

Well, it's really important that you guys understand that when that cold storage was built, that was built to prevent wards cove from establishing a longline buying station here.

And so when you read and take out the Freedom of Information Act and read the information about it in the city offices, you'll see that the city got 4.5 million dollars to build that.

They use 3.5 million dollars, and then the mechanical aspects of the mistakes that were made with the electric defrost with the panels, and then when you keep going through it, you'll see that through 27 meetings, industry got the public aspect of that public cold storage taken away.

If you go to Petersburg's now, they were able to use their Stevens money for the original concept, which was to have 25% of that cold storage as a custom value pack processing area so skiff fishermen could pull up to the city wall and process and freeze their own fish.

That got taken away, and then we've ended up with there have been attempted lawsuits to get the knuckle crane that's there just so our FAS vessels could unload and then use it.

And there's quite a bit to that city cold storage, and uh anyway, it's worth reading if you want to read something that we're still dealing with to this day.

All the little side notes that staff put in there are really good.

Yeah, I actually to build on that.

When we when I was on the assembly the very first time, I fought for that knuckle crane.

That was my baby.

I and for just that reason for frozen at sea, and we used to do you know, they come up and I forget her name was fisherman wouldn't stop calling me until I well, yeah.

And and that was the whole point.

So is to why that crane was built.

Yeah, I'm not sure if the airport fund um hadn't been updated yet by staff this coming year, so I'm not sure that those numbers will will be there.

Um moving forward to the same degree uh because we were looking at adding um at our last meeting the roofing part uh into that supplemental, which was grant covered.

Um so I think that's I think that's to come.

Yep, we got a nod from the man who knows who's not eating his cookies when he comes up, though.

So yeah.

So yeah, I want to echo the thanks for the information.

It's quite a lot to take in, and I think uh well laid out, and I appreciate that.

And I really appreciate the fact that um we don't just randomly choose things, right?

Like there's a process that we go through to make sure that we're trying to address the most important things that we are working toward, as well as keeping an eye on the long term.

So, you know, this risk scoring strategy is you know, a great way to explain to people why we're doing something and also why we're not right now uh moving forward with that.

So um I'm I'm uh it's great to see the effort that's gone into this, and it's um very transparent as to how we ended up where we're at.

Um, and I appreciate that clarification of some of these projects that are already underway um kind of moves them up a little bit because we want to make sure we finish them.

And um, and and that's a comment that I'm starting to hear from people, they're starting to see more things happen and starting to see see more things get done.

And um, you know, that's been a knock on uh the city and the assembly for quite a while.

So I appreciate that, and I appreciate the process that you've gone through to bring these forward as a group.

Um, and I'll speak about the rate thing too.

I think I think you guys are I think we're all on the same page that the rates have um been moving up, and yes, we're trying to keep those trend lines going together.

Um, but sometimes there's gonna be a conversation that needs to happen about you know, giving a little bit of a break and taking a little more risk, maybe just to make sure that we can uh take care of our community.

So while I'm not prepared to say three percent is the number, you know, or anything like that.

Um I I think I will be pretty squinty-eyed if the rates go up very far because um you know I think we need to be careful with people how they're how they're feeling and and what the economics are doing.

So I appreciate it.

I I like what I see here.

Um I just have a question about harbors.

Uh I thought that there was some more like incremental work that was happening at Harbors.

Um, but here it seems to be mostly long range projects and saving up is was I just mistaken, or are there like electrical improvements happening?

So the harbors needs a pretty extensive update, and and part of what we're dealing with is that the um increase in in costs for harbor project has it is honestly astounding.

We've dealt with some really surprising updated estimates that we received on some of those projects.

There is um already appropriated funding for probably that's the electrical one that you're thinking of that wouldn't be on here because I believe that project was fully funded, so it would be on the appropriated uh projects listing.

And then just the other thing that I'll say about rate increases is I obviously haven't been involved in discussions over the past years, and um have have been subject to them along with the rest of our community.

But uh the thing that I am really concerned about is how we got here in the first place and the fact that rates were so low for so long, and it is just really important to me that we are not unduly burdening future generations of sitkins in the same way that we're having to deal with right now.

And so I don't know what that number is, but I feel very strongly about speaking up for the young people that are gonna be living in this community and having to make the same difficult decisions that we're making right now, and not putting them in a worse spot.

I mean, yes, I mean that again going back 25 years.

We had a big fight here about harbor rates in the like 98, 99, and a couple of us wanted to raise rates, and they were really low, and we got knocked down hard because it was and we were saying, guys, we need to put some away.

And that was back when the state was just about to give it to us, and maybe the writing was on the wall that we weren't the state was gonna give us to us, the main organization is giving me money to work on them.

And we had a full room of people yelling at us, saying you can't, you're gonna put us at it.

I mean, and it's exactly what Katie was talking about.

If we if we'd even gone up, you know, just a few cents a foot, then we would have had 10-15 years of you know, it was and so you're you I mean it's that balancing act.

I have one actual line item question.

I'm assuming the two and a half million for Blachley is put in a wave for savings for the project in 29.

Is that right?

So the school um plan has not been updated yet either.

It's I actually meant to talk about that on one of my slides.

I did have some lines and I realized I forgot.

So the process that we go through to develop um the plan for the schools is a little bit different because we have an agreement that um requires some meetings with the superintendent, and then um for that plan to go through the school board as well.

So there are actually fairly significant updates to that plan.

You just won't see them for about another month until that um work session with the school district.

Yeah, this is our this is our first year of doing the capital plan with this with the school district.

So what we're doing right now is what I and Brooke and uh other city staff did with the superintendent just a couple days ago, sitting in the office going through their capital list, going through the risk scores, um, seeing where everything is and putting that list together, and then Deedra is going to take that to the school board, and they will go through this exact same process.

If that capital list looks good to them, then it'll get incorporated into ours and uh and presented along with the budget.

We funded a lot last year uh for schools.

Um were we able to execute on many of them?

So those appropriations were FY26.

So we literally that funding, we were just able to access it, and so there's some progress, but uh not much, and that's pretty normal for um appropriations that are that new.

They do have a you know, everybody knows there's a lot of work that needs to be done on the school buildings, they are very expensive projects, so there's a lot of conversations taking place about how you know save up the money and and figure out how to do that when there's less support from the state.

Yes, I remember that from last year's budget cycle about bonding.

Um so the more information the earlier you have it is is great on that.

Um because it's been a little bit since we've taken out a bond for schools, and that'll be uh another conversation or these early early meetings, December of next year, guys.

Scotty, you haven't talked about the library yet.

I want to talk about I think it's the enterprise funds is what got us here in the first place because they're more concerned with the end result of each fiscal year than planning downstream for the rest of the infrastructure, and then just by that being able to say that we're in the black, and then that's how the harbors were diminished, and now I could talk about the library.

Had a good day at the library where we looked at the uh humidifying uh the lack of humidifying in the library, and I heard back from the library commission that they're just thrilled with how the assembly went there and actually could visualize their dilemmas.

But we didn't get to talk about a couple of the other things there, but yeah, sorry I couldn't join you on that one.

I wanted to hear your insight, but uh holiday season pretty busy for me.

Got to catch the king salmon when they're running.

And you did, you caught today.

A couple shakers, but on the topic of oh, sorry.

I was just gonna say real quick, I echo um what people have said.

This uh this is very nice, all the work that you did.

It's very open and honest and transparent.

I really like the printouts that are big.

But uh yeah, thank you.

That's all I was gonna say.

Topic of rates for the harbors.

There was a a study um that was published 2024, I believe, that talked about rates and where we're at and what would need to happen to make an adjustment to get kind of on track.

Um that's was that 2024?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So there's some good insights in in that document.

It's available on the uh Harbour's website.

Um you have a bunch of projects here.

There's a lot going on.

Uh staffing.

I'm gonna talk about do we have the people to do this work to do the maintenance side?

This is all capital um maintenance workers, but also within our project management staff.

And yeah, can it be done?

Do you want me to say no?

I mean, I it's uh there's a there's a limit to what we can achieve in a year, and and we've talked about this a lot too.

I think just a couple days ago, we're like that school district's got 30 projects on there.

Are you really gonna get 30 projects done in a year?

No, we're not gonna get 30 projects done in a year.

Um, and even if we tripled the size of staff, we're not gonna get the those 30 projects or these 540 projects, whatever we have on here.

Um, but it's not just city staff too, it's local contractor capacity as well.

I mean, we've got a very limited pool to choose from and trying to pull others in from outside of the island is uh is very hard.

So um that's part of the strategy, right?

Is what which ones are we gonna execute, which ones are funded, and which ones do we have the capacity to do?

Um if it was 30 small projects that take a week or two to do, yeah, absolutely we'll get all those done.

But as Brooke mentioned earlier, the airport is a big one, and it's pulled a lot of resources for for that one big project.

So you know, it's not easy for me to just say yes, we have enough people or no, we don't have enough people.

It really is project dependent and um what the size of the project is and how many of them are out there.

Thank you.

Um, because what we've done so far tonight is kind of look at the numbers and the costs and you know the the timing of how much money can we save at what time to get to that project cost when we um you know when the risk matrix says um that that staffing side is is also critical um to having things get achieved.

And I trust that you'll let us know um when we get into a pinch point and when we just don't have um enough or we would need to move to you know consultants to to administer some of this work.

Well, listen if you ever bring that to us.

So we definitely still have time as an assembly to continue to talk.

Um seems like the conversation is seems like we were satisfied with the meeting tonight.

Um I hope for staff that was in the room, I hope that uh this was helpful um to kind of hear some of the assembly's thoughts this early in the process.

Brooke, I hope it was helpful for you to start wrapping your head around this earlier than you normally do.

Um I think if we can take smaller bites um throughout the time as opposed to massive meetings where we become overwhelmed, uh it's helpful for us because while we live this world every day, we don't live it like you do.

Um it's not forefront.

We have to transition back and forth between our day jobs and then uh then this other hat we wear.

So I think smaller bites for me where I can digest in an hour to two hour work session um works out really really well because then we can go back and refine our thoughts as it comes up and and have a time to to sit down with John and and you know further help along the budget process.

So uh this was definitely helpful for me.

I don't know what I'll have as a follow-on from it, um, but it starts wrapping my head around where we're needing.

Um, even JJ's comments of do we have enough staff?

If we don't have staffing for the projects that we might need, that might be another way to save some rate effort.

Um if we can't realistically achieve it in the time frame, then we maybe it doesn't need to be on there.

Um because I don't think you know the our town's appetite for rate increases is small, um, but the appetite for additional city staff.

I don't know why engineers always get picked on, but that seems to be the one.

Uh that's also the one holding up a lot of these projects, I would assume is a lack of um engineering to make all of them go at the same time.

Um so now this was this was helpful for me.

Um we can definitely continue our conversation tonight.

I know there's a final notes slide.

Brooke is ready to go home, but Sarah's still got what do we got?

Is Eric another couple hours still?

Yeah, filibuster, just sit up here and I'll talk as long as need be.

And it's getting dark, Tor's gotta go home.

Any other thing from assembly while we have some department heads here, staff here.

I'll just say that yes, um appetite for rate increases is small, and I understand that.

Um appetite for functional services and a working city is very high.

And I just want to emphasize to anyone who is listening, um, and also you know, ourselves is that we have to pay for that.

And we I think we all understand that we are in an era of declining support from the state and the feds, and we have to fund our priorities, and it's on all of us to communicate that effectively to our citizens.

But that's that's what I understood at AML.

So yeah, I agree.

Um earlier you made a comment of you know the the lack of rate increases put us in this spot, and I don't want to do the same.

Um, you know, 10 years or so in the early 2000s without any rate increases, it was great then, but it hurts now.

Um, and I I hope that my kid will will stay here, and I I look at those decisions with that mindset as well.

So I I agree.

I I want my toilet to dispose of waste, and I want my my lights to turn on when I flip the switch.

Um stub toes hurt.

So you know, one thing that Thor was teaching me the other night is that we're at six mills, and Juno just voted to come down to nine mils as far as home ownership, and then all the homes we have that don't have kids or even stay here in the winter.

Uh, you know, and just something to think about for me as far as the rates, and but then we got to pay more for eggs and all of that, but it's all connected per child property tax break.

I'm in Kevin's really in.

Well, you know, and that comes at two for my neighborhood with so many grandmothers raising grandkids, and they can't get food stamps to raise the grandkids, you know, and we got all this.

So nobody's getting them now.

Got a quick comment question.

Um, I think it could be helpful when we see um the packet come through for the budget uh to have the resource proposals organized.

What is capital and what is operational?

Um, I think it fielded some questions from my neighbor here um last year.

We were trying to kind of balance that budget during that final meeting, um, and what was actually gonna balance the budget and what was coming from that public infrastructure sinking fund.

Um being organized by strategic plan was was also nice.

I think what would make a difference in that yearly fund.

Thank you.

Brooke, you got one more slide you need to go over with us.

Did you already go over that one?

Yeah, it seems like forever ago now, huh?

Well, if there's nothing else from the assembly, um I guess we would move on to our wrap-up item.

Um, so if you have any comments, I know this was a very open conversation right now, but if you have any comments relating to the budget, um, this would be item B on our list.

Um, now would be the time for that.

Okay, great.

Uh then moving on this evening, two persons to be heard.

Public participation for any item on or off tonight's agenda, not to exceed three minutes for any individual.

Okay, and adjournment.

Second.

All those in favor say aye.

All right, thank you, assembly and staff.

We are adjourned.